So let's see. Within one week, we get a shooting at an Oregon mall, a shooting at an elementary school in "the perfect little town," and now a shooting at another mall. Not to mention the recent foiled-plot arrests with the Tampa and Oklahoma and New Jersey school shootings. Oh, and the "Twilight" screening (a la Aurora, Colorado) that was stopped.

I dunno... does anyone REALLY think we have a problem in this country? Just asking. You know. Curiosity, and all... but, hey, let's not overplay this. After all, the Oregon shooting only killed two people. And nobody died in California, right?

Humper Beam: there's no need for profanity, you inelegant typist. I hope your comment gets deleted because you're reflecting not only a high level of racism and foul language that has no place here, but also your own ignorance about what life in America has become.

"Al" is right. We SHOULD be getting used to this. It's happening on an almost-daily basis that there is a shooting somewhere, be it a domestic violence case, a gang-related shooting or some lone-wolf nutjob.

So why IS it even taking us by surprise any more? You can't go a single day in this country without someone being shot on purpose--never mind the accidental shootings, or the almost-executed plans foiled by FBI and police. This is something we should be accustomed to in our culture. After all, we do provide the means and the methods.

I was in the military, too. Twice. And there is nothing "right" about what's happening, but "Al" made a very blatant, open and honest remark. How can we not be adjusted to something that occurs every day in this country?

Because it begs the question: what the hell was a quiet schoolteacher in a perfect, no-crime suburban town in Connecticut doing with an assault rifle in easy access to her mentally-disturbed son, exactly?

Humper Beam, you obviously do not understand the sarcastic irony of the initial poster, making the point that these attacks are all too common.

Navy and Navy. I ignored the acronym--Never Again Volunteer Yourself. Though I did consider the Marines a couple of times.

And yes, "Wants To Know" is right. The gist is sarcasm. Because we need sarcasm right now. We need that dark humor to be able to deal with this kind of news, when it seems that everyone who has access to a gun is intent on using it against total strangers.

I like how military types automatically assume you're Islamic extremist or jump to automatic racist comments when someone says something they disagree with.

Obviously anyone who might have a differing opinion is a jihadist and a baby raper or something.

CaerRaven: I did NOT assume any of what you said, and I resent the stereotypical, blanket description about us "military types," thanks very much.

...what the hell was a quiet schoolteacher in a perfect, no-crime suburban town in Connecticut doing with an assault rifle in easy access to her mentally-disturbed son, exactly?

From what I've read, she didn't have an assault rifle.

That does it! I'm gonna start packin'!!

CaerRaven

I like how military types automatically assume you're Islamic extremist or jump to automatic racist comments when someone says something they disagree with.

Obviously anyone who might have a differing opinion is a jihadist and a baby raper or something.

Or genius, could it be the name Al Kyda he's using?

Nancy Lanza apparently wasn't a schoolteacher, as reported earlier, but she did collect guns. And have a mentally ill child. In a picture-perfect American community.

Humper: I stopped off in Rota in '93 during a Med Cruise. Nice place at the time, though I enjoyed Crete more. Then again, during that era, we were able to freely visit the West Bank of Israel without being shot.

Guns are quite easy to get access to regardless of the crime level.

We should be dropping these guys into terrorist training camps--give them a chance to die as heroes.

My point is that as a gun owner, she should've taken extra precautions with 1) children in the house (as she's been a longtime gun collector and had underage youths in her care while collecting) and 2) a mentally-ill relative.

Is he in this country illegally??

In case you are curious, and I know that you are, yes, it was a hand gun.

It seems that this guy was simply looking for attention. And, thus, he was rewarded for his actions...

.

Two people murdered and a young girl severely wounded by a disturbed teenage shooter with a semi-automatic rifle at a local shopping mall in my state this week, and what was the response?

Record gun sales in Oregon's gun-shops the following day, and increasing sales every subsequent day since the shooting! ( sales including hundreds of weapons like, or similar to the murder weapon used in the shopping mall ).

Twenty 6 and 7 year-old children murdered in their elementary school classrooms and six adults murdered by another disturbed young gunman with multiple semi-automatic weapons, yesterday...

...and the response was record sales of guns in America's gun-shops today!

And what are the gun buyers complaining about in Oregon? They are upset because the massive increase in gun sales has caused a backlog in their "background check" -- which normally would take 15-minutes -- causing them to wait as long as four hours for their new guns!

Does anyone else share my sadness, dismay and mounting despair about the state of affairs in our country? Are we going completely nuts?

Robert where are your sources for the sale of guns on the day after mass shootings? Wiki doesn't count.

OK, so let's assume we resort to total gun control or confiscation because of an occasional mental case/psychopath. Now the good people who simply want a means to protect themselves from home invasions by phony swat teams and late night visitors coming through windows will be up shat creek. When you live in Southern Cal it's not just paranoia, it's reality. The government will be no more capable of keeping illegal weapons from the bad guys and nut cases than they are capable of controlling the flow of drugs in this country. So what's the next bright idea?

Outside a high school down in Cincinnati some nut emptied a clip in the air right after a football game night before last than ran off. When the arms merchants figured out how to sell more guns through the efforts of the NRA guess they did not think that people with less than all their faculties would also have access along with those who do not think straight. Or did they count on it happening. Have we been snookered?

Robert in Oregon - I'm hearing this morning that the shooter in the mall was confronted by a CCP holder while his rifle had jammed and the next shot the shooter fired was into his own head. Can you confirm, is this on your local news at all?

My thinking, if there was an uptick in sales of guns is that law abiding citizen are becoming more and more fearful for their safety and security. I know I for one have become very fearful for the safety of my wife and children.

Peters

The government will be no more capable of keeping illegal weapons from the bad guys and nut cases than they are capable of controlling the flow of drugs in this country.

Exactly, when the liberal Democrats can guarantee they can get 100% of the illegal guns and all the illegal gun owners, and 100% of the mentally deranged and criminals locked safely away then I'll consider turning in my firearms, until then no deal.

The one true common thread to all these incidents is not guns, it's unstable people and criminals, so why not focus on the real issue, no gun has ever robbed, assaulted, or murdered anyone one it's own ever.....

Mike Del Corpo

I'm hearing this morning that the shooter in the mall was confronted by a CCP holder while his rifle had jammed and the next shot the shooter fired was into his own head

I live in Wa and that is the story I'm hearing here, plus saw video interview with CCP holder who confronted him, he said he didn't shoot because there was to great a risk of hitting bystanders.

Thank you Robbob!

So now I have to wonder. Is it possible that the thought of seeing someone armed and possibly about to shoot him made the shooter rethink continuing out his act of terror? Is this maybe a case where an armed citizen was able to reduce the number of dead, possibly? It sounds like a good case for law abiding armed citizens to me.

On the 11th day of Christmas...a wacko shot at me...now I'm behind a big tree...

Mike it shows the that responsible gun owners and CCP holders can make a difference and we are not all looking to start a shoot out in a mall. He did the right thing, he didn't come out guns a blazing sending a wall of lead down range, he assessed the situation and made a responsible choice, a choice that saved lives in the end. I believe if the shooter had tried to reengage targets after unjamming his weapon the CCP holder hopefully would have ended it, I don't believe he had the chance to stop him before shooting started, I don't think he was aware of him before he started shooting.

Robbob - Agreed!

Leftover stop being a racist, we don't need that kind of crap now. This country has a serious problem with guns. The other problem is the NRA they have so much power and they control Washington, Congress will never do anything about solving the problem. We are the only country in this world with such lenient gun rules and that is why we have so many serious problems. I don't have a problem with people owning guns for hunting, or target practice, for protection, but we need to put stricter rules, eliminate assault weapons(only the police & military should have them), ordinary people do not need them nor should they have them. Their are a lot of responsible gun owners out there and I appauld them. Gun shows have to have stricter rules as well. Their is a petition you can sign to have Congress do something and now before we have another tragedy where so many innocent get killed. Go to moveon.com to sign the petition.

Sounds like this shooter might have been looking for suicide by cop.

I think all these shootings, just reflect how many people we now have in the USA - that and too much down time. Depressed people in the past still had to go do them chores - now a machine can do the job of 100 men. Even an 8 hour job is not the same as working all day to survive.

I'm not saying there were some mythical "good old days" - far from it, just different. Most of the crime 100 years ago never got reported - like my grandmother getting raped by two young men. To show you how sick they were back then - they made one of her rapers marry her - against her will. That is how they made criminals responsible back then - women had to marry their rapers so the baby would be supported...and the neo-cons think social welfare is screwed up.

All laws have bad points - but when all things are considered, you have to go the route of the least destruction...hard to say where this whole gun problem will go. Just too many people these days - maybe China got it right (far too late) with the one child thing.

Leftovers; there are 50 million Latino/Hispanics in the USA - there are about 5.8 million of the 11 million illegals that are from Mexico. My Latino/Hispanic in-laws had ancestors living in Arizona before it was a State. Sorry, but Latinos in America isn't a new thing...lmao.

I'll bet the ratio of legal to illegal white immigrants during the Ellis Island days wasn't much different.

These conservatives are like trying to pin down your own shadow - they defend George Zimmerman (a Latino) when it suits them, never questioning his legal status - then they turn around and assume every Latino just snuck into the country in the last twenty years.

More border patrol means more taxes. How about we stop the flow of guns to Mexico - I'll gladly fork out a few extra tax dollars for that cause.

The other problem is the NRA they have so much power and they control Washington

The NRA will quit lobbying when all the Liberal Unions do.

But you all are not addressing the REAL issue, mentally disturbed people bent on destruction.

Tell you what get 100% of the illegal guns and 100% of the people who own guns illegally all rounded up then we'll discus gun control, because the laws on the books aren't being enforced.

All the of the guns used were registered, so more laws and more registrations would not have stopped the school shooting, or this one either, it's illegal to shoot in the city but that didn't stop this guy did it.

You sick and twisted gun owners fail to accept the repeated facts that your kids are killing you and the rest of us. Why should innocent people die because you are rotten parents? Your kids are making bombs that you know nothing about and stealing your guns to commit murder. When does it end?

It smells like a set up. An anti-gun nut acquires a gun, just to make the news and not hurt anyone. Remember, this is California, with the highest concentration of nuts.

For Debi-1314897 about 28 comments up:

...what the hell was a quiet schoolteacher in a perfect, no-crime suburban town in Connecticut doing with an assault rifle in easy access to her mentally-disturbed son, exactly?

From what I've read, she didn't have an assault rifle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Federal officials tell NBC News that Adam Lanza took three weapons with him to the school – two pistols, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, and a Bushmaster .223-caliber semi-automatic assault-style rifle – all of which were registered to Nancy Lanza.

-Paul Hester

Guns are obviously not the problem...

CaerRaven wrote:

"Robert where are your sources for the sale of guns on the day after mass shootings? Wiki doesn't count."

Nice, not too subtle way of calling me a liar. Well, for your information my "source" was the 11:00 News report on our NBC affiliate in Portland, OR; KGW News 8.

If you will look at the time stamp on my previous post you will see that I was watching that broadcast at the same time I was writing that post. The broadcast includes segments of interviews of a gun-shop owner and customers buying guns, as well as an Oregon State legislator.

Satisfied now? No, probably not. so here's the link/URL for that news story. If you click on the photo showing the AR-15 style semi-automatic rifles, you can watch and listen to the story yourself.

"Gun stores seeing record setting days"
http://www.kgw.com/news/Record-setting-days-for-gun-stores-183659131.html

This shooting sounds like some anti-gun liberal nut trying to cause an incident to further their agenda.

There is a difference between the Connecticut Shooting and this guy shooting at the mall. Adam did it out of not being able to handle his emotions from his confrontation and snapped and went on a shooting spree to kill and get revenge.

The guy at the mall did it because he read the news and seen how much publicity that adam got from the shooting, and this guy felt he wanted some attention himself but not kill anyone.

The more the media puts on the air the more people out there want some national attention themselves and will do anything to get it.

Im tired of this social shift change we have taken towards such shock media journalism. Everything always has to be negative, and have shock value to it. Where are the news reports of people doing good deeds for others , like that cop who gave the homeless man shoes ? Where are the stories of communities and people helping others in their times of need ? People watch Junk on TV, read junk in the news, and all it does is fill minds with junk. I got rid of my cable TV 8 years ago and dont miss it what so ever.

Wow, half the people posting opinions here seem ready to shoot anybody who disagrees with them.

Glad it is all just electronic violence.

Is anybody curious about the motives of this man, who acted just 1 day after the Connecticut shootings, and within a week of the mall shootings in Oregon?

He sounds like a copy-cat perpetrator, which makes his actions doubly frightening. Another crazy person with an automatic weapon, or so I assume by the number of shots fired.

dman,

Hardly. You and many others clearly don't understand gun terminology. Automatic weapons which everyone throws out there already ARE ILLEGAL. A truly automatic weapon will fire a 30 round clip in just 2 SECONDS.

A semi-automatic weapon means that a weapon will fire just 1 shot with each pull of the trigger. This includes 95% of all weapons. Every handgun, most rifles, a lot of shotguns are ALL semi-automatic. The only weapons that don't fall into the semi-automatic category are bolt-action rifles and some shotguns that need to be reloaded after each shot.

The anti-gun nuts are trying to confuse the public by blurring its understanding of what is an automatic weapon and a semi-automatic weapon. They figure if they can build up enough misunderstood outrage against semi-automatic weapons by making it seem like they are automatic they can effectively ban 95% of guns without the public realizing what they are.

The simple fact that someone could COUNT they shots, means it was NOT an automatic weapon.

To ronnie milsap
jihadist also believed in God, heaven and hell so is Timothy McVeigh (Oklahoma City bomber) said his god "made him" did what he did.
Does it ever occurred to you that only extreme religious people will do those type of stuff? Those thing never come from sane rationalist?

I believe he was lost and got confused about shoot three rounds, wait a period of time and then let three more rounds off and wait for help. That, or he WANTED to be arrested and get three hots and a cot.

This shooting sounds like some anti-gun liberal nut trying to cause an incident to further their agenda

Or, some gun-happy conservative trying to prove what could happen if there were no armed gun fanatics in the area when a shooting occurs.

Any person who would maintain a membership in the NRA after what we've witnessed since Columbine is no better than a person who maintain a membership in Al-Qaeda after what we've seen since 9/11.

The NRA is a terrorist organization. Period.

I've personally been around guns my entire life, I have no issue with responsible gun ownership, but NRA has as much to do with that as fish naturally do with bicycles (to borrow an analogy).The nature of that organization is to prevent any form of gun control laws from being legislated and use the politicians they bank-roll to prevent any enforcement efforts for existing laws from being funded. Do with that knowledge whatever you please; but considering how much blood has been spilled from this organization's efforts I stick with my assertion that they are a terrorist organization and should be referred to in public discourse as one.

what i want to know is why people keep forgetting to keep their weapons and ammo in a safe where an idiot can't reach them and as the old saying goes regarding all this crap in the news, monkey see-monkey do, keep giving people ideas and they will act on them, another problem we have is all the protect us from ourselves type laws being used, if people were allowed to let natural selection take it's course we wouldn't be flooded with inferior genetic material, honestly, when was the last time you met someone who thought for themselves and asked questions instead of jumping on the bandwagon, the more stupid people there are the more stupid things that will happen and it should be legal for we the people to take our streets back if there's a lot of crime, not like the cops are doing anything about it, they only show up after the fact, you glorify bad behavior in the media by making it a front page issue every damn time(especially in the liberal media for some reason) and of course more people will follow the herd, they think well if they did then so can i and here we are all over again and the more crowded our planet gets the more insane people will become, since when were we meant to live in super dense clusters and not to mention all the trace heavy metal poisoning that's also causing some effect to the insanity, our planet really needs help, this isn't just an american issue, there's nut jobs everywhere right now, i think it's time those with any sanity left started to take out the trash, lets start with all the inmates on death row who keep re-appealing their sentences and wasting resources that could benefit someone who didn't kill people then work our way up to the druggies and gang-bangers who corrupt our youth and it should be illegal for anyone under 18 to buy any violent game, 21 if it promotes crime, if we aren't hard on crime to the point that it really hurts then it just won't work.

also, what's the point of making more laws, criminals don't follow them anyways, only us law abiding citizens will follow the laws of our country, what does that leave us if they do pass more laws?

i'll tell you where, we'll be sitting ducks! like shooting fish in a barrel! easy money for anyone who doesn't care about our laws, if someone invades your home with all those laws with the intent to harm, the only option you have is to brake them yourself to keep your home safe or to stick your head right up your butt and kiss it goodbye!

By the logic of those who think that owning a firearm will protect them from "an outlaw who carries guns" the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor was a complete failure.
The abundance of weapons at that navy facility did NOTHING to prevent or even mitigate that attack. Possessing a firearm can only thwart an attack if it is in your hand, ready to fire at any instant. Who would want to LIVE that way?

truthmachine, no one gives a damn about the NRA you're beating a dead horse, they had nothing to do with any of these shootings, their just as responsible as you are, more laws don't make a safer world unless you can guarantee everyone will cooperate, good luck.

Michael-412302

This shooting sounds like some anti-gun liberal nut trying to cause an incident to further their agenda

Or, some gun-happy conservative trying to prove what could happen if there were no armed gun fanatics in the area when a shooting occurs.

Sounds like just a moronic azzhole to me. Lets see, discharging a firearm within city limits, 50 counts at 1 year per count to be served consecutively, 50 years in prison sounds about right to me, time to make some examples out of some idiots that desperately need to learn a lesson. He would get out at 92 years old, he might have learned his lesson by then.

Proper enforcement of the laws already on the books and mandatory registration should solve a many problems, not all but many.

Proper care for the mentally ill is also a must, as well as mandatory safety courses teaching both safety and RESPONSIBILITY. The Connecticut mother is partly to blame for what happened, she had a mentally unstable kid, knew it, didn't seek appropriate help for her son, and did not have her firearms locked in a safe that would have made the inaccessible to her son. She, and the community paid a heavy price for her irresponsibility, she could have kept one handgun out for home defense but would have had to maintain physical custody of the weapon out 100% of the time with an unstable person living in the home.

regarding pearl harbor, it's hard to shoot at planes when your in a mess hall up to a football field from your turret, it was also a sneak attack done with bombs and kamikazes done by a country that was negotiating a peace treaty at the time, when you attack to cause terror that's exactly what you'll get.

@ronnie milsap

We have religious freedom in this country and most of us would appreciate you not trying to force your religious agenda on us. My relationship with God is between God and myself and none of your business. You are part of the problem, you are no better than the taliban, your agenda is the same, only your religion is different.

It's important to consider that the terrorists at the NRA and their minions in middle America did nothing to PREVENT this attack. If gun distributes and enthusiasts do nothing to self-police the firearms community, then it leaves no choice for the government to step in.

I'm not advocating more laws, I'm advocating FULL FUNDING to ENFORCE the current laws that are on the books and severe punishment for any and all violations of those laws. Both of which are opposed by the Republican congressional hand-maidens for the terrorists at the NRA.

Antistupidity, boy did you earn that user name, we really should be doing all of that, every last one of us that's applicable.

truthmachine, time to change your user name, why is it every time someone puts the word truth in their name they talk like they went out and researched everything and spout it like facts when it's exactly the opposite? seems like a waste to me!

Hardly. You and many others clearly don't understand gun terminology. Automatic weapons which everyone throws out there already ARE ILLEGAL. A truly automatic weapon will fire a 30 round clip in just 2 SECONDS.

Good to know, watchtheotherhand, and when I really need an in depth dissertation of automatic vs semi-automatic weapons, I assure you, you'll be the very first person I'll contact.

In the meantime, the point is not whether this person was using an automatic or semi-automatic weapon, but that he was obviously mentally unbalanced, and heavily armed.

That is what is disturbing, that and the fact that this seems to be an attack motivated by recent other attacks, in Oregon, in Connecticut, and elsewhere.

Truthmachine, again with the NRA? terrorists? how is the NRA responsible for any of this? try staying on topic for a change, i don't see them doing any of this and how are they terrorists? you like to spout venom but you have to proof or unbiased resources to back it up.

I call them terrorists because they ARE terrorist. Do they use fear to exercise their power? No doubt about that. If innocent people must die for these sociopaths to further their political goals; well sorry, that's is a correct term. If you're a member of that organization then you are one as well; maybe you don't mean to be, but you are.

you can buy full auto weapons but you need a 200$ permit from the BATF and thorough screening plus you have to wait a month before getting your pre-approved gun of choice, same goes for a silencer.

actually they don't, i'm not scared, who here is scared? only someone whose paranoid would be scared, not one person i know is scared, they use the power given them by the people who support them to have an influence, it has nothing to do with fear, i'm willing to bet the only ones scared of them are the gun grabbers because their the only ones who stand to loose.

Since the NRA has been brought up continually....

I haven't seen a statement from them on what could / should be done to help stop all this.

Sorta like the R's complaining that Pres O hasn't proposed the "right" "fiscal cliff" solution but they do not propose exactly what they would like to see as a solution.

Lead .... follow .... or get out of the way.

Really, you don't think the NRA uses fear to pursue their agenda?

You never addressed what steps the gun ownership and distribution community or the terrorists at the NRA have ever done to prevent guns from getting into the wrong hands in the first place. Because the obvious answer is nothing.

Well, sooner or later a Jihadist is going to use those wonderful "hands-off" gun laws that idiots such as yourself think to be so wonderful, maybe as your church is getting out, and maybe they'll kill or maim a few people in your family, one can only hope.

i see you keep bringing up the word terrorist a lot as well, look up the definition of what a terrorist is, guns are smuggled into this country daily, what exactly is a few laws going to do to stop someone who's not going to follow them and may also have no respect for our country and its laws to begin with?

the word terrorist has no meaningful use here.

and no, not one person i have met personally has said they fear the NRA.

as for your church comment you assume way too much of me but a bible, quaran etc. can stop small arms fire if held in front of you so it is somewhat useful.

now i'm going to bed, i haven't slept in 24 hours and have lost all my focus and could still crap a better argument than you.

"More border patrol means more taxes. How about we stop the flow of guns to Mexico - I'll gladly fork out a few extra tax dollars for that cause."

Seeing as how your friendly fed gov is the smuggler involved, I don't think you'll be very successful at curbing that activity.

Sorry SCARLET, folks like yourself tend to be bigots so I created a context that I thought you might understand.

You still didn't answer the question. What have the gun ownership and distributors community and advocacy groups like the terrorists at the NRA done to prevent tragedies like this in the first place? Again, absolutely NOTHING.

If your passions have a negative affect on society as a whole-and gun ownership is certainly one that can- it is incumbent on YOU to regulate yourselves. If you fail to do that - and there's no question that the gun community in this country has- then it falls to the government to do it for you. If you obstruct that and people die as a result then the blood is on your hands as well making you a terrorist. Gun owners have done NOTHING to keep society as a whole safe from their passion. The second amendment is not a suicide pact - and it also places the right to keep and bear arms under the wing of a "Well regulated militia." Never seem to hear that addressed either. For gun nuts lying by omission is fair game I guess.

Advocating policies that do nothing but flood our streets with guns is not acceptable and if branding an organization whose activities do precisely that as a terrorist organization is what it takes I have no problem with it.

No question that the arguments that come out of your mouth are crap, but they're definitely NOT better.

How many homicides in Chicago this year?

There's too many guns out there for gun control to work. We need to change the country's attitude.

WHAT??

Pearl Harbor was such a tragedy because our government and military leaders ignored intel and deliberately delayed warnings to the bases there.. Why the hell do you think they lined up the planes so neatly in line with strategic buildings/installations.. Why the heck do you think the air craft carriers were conveniently out of port?? If you are looking for criminals don't look at the NRA look at the politicians and CIA and military leaders.. They ignore all the inner city gang violence that happens daily.. Isolated tragedies and the agenda of Communism America, 911 gave them the excuse to take some constitutional rights and they are looking for more.. What ever happened to government serving the people?? Soon we will be ruled by the federal power mongers..

This is Adam Lanza's facebook page before it was deleted. This is not a hoax or a fraud. Thats being done by the media that uses photos that are 8 yrs old to depict a kid. As you can see this is no kid. Pay particular attention to the "Political Views" on this page. These kids and their teachers were killed by a Communist/Anarchist. Please pass this on.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3611_423506811050933_1150852840_n.jpg

Paul:

For Debi-1314897 about 28 comments up:

...what the hell was a quiet schoolteacher in a perfect, no-crime suburban town in Connecticut doing with an assault rifle in easy access to her mentally-disturbed son, exactly?

From what I've read, she didn't have an assault rifle.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Federal officials tell NBC News that Adam Lanza took three weapons with him to the school – two pistols, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, and a Bushmaster .223-caliber semi-automatic assault-style rifle – all of which were registered to Nancy Lanza.

-Paul Hester

In the interest of maintaining accuracy, please refer to Post #1.49.

Truthmachine:

Wow...you are really @!$%#ing stupid. The NRA had nothing to do with this. It was caused by (1) a mentally ill man, and made possible by (2) a woman who didn't lock up her firearms and ignored her son.

Every time there's a shooting, people like you want to take guns away from people that had nothing to do with it. I feel bad for what happened, but you're not going to browbeat me into giving up my rights. I lock up my guns, I know where they are at all times, I shouldn't have to pay the price for other peoples irresponsibility!!

roadrummero,

your conspiracy theory is in overdrive....the government is no more trying to take over than it ever has. but, if you were paying attention to the last election, it seems clearer that it is corporate america that is attempting a coup. they did after all try desperately to buy the last election, which thank god, they failed miserably. but, unfortunately, they aren't giving up.

i don't know how many times this has been said by how many people, but most liberals in this country are NOT INTERESTED IN TAKING AWAY YOUR GUNS!!!!! we just want people to be required to know how to use them, you know like you have to prove you know how to drive before you get a driver's licence. we'd also like to know that people are going to be held responsible for the guns they own. your 2nd amendment rights are upheld then moment you buy ONE gun. no one needs a cache of guns. if you want to be a collector or you're a hunter, that's cool. just register with the local authorities. this protect us and it protects you. if you're honest, law-abiding and want only to protect yourself, fine! you don't need an uzi, you don't need any kind of repeating weapon, you need a gun or a rifle...one.

i wonder if you all understand that while your demand that more be done about mental health and not about your gun rights, that the very people that you back for the power grab in this country are the ones who want to do away with the social programs that help people facing mental disabilities. it is the republicans who want to cut billions in social programs in order for them to condescend to make the rich pay a penny more in taxes. they want to take away medicare, don't let their double speak fool you. they want to kill social security even though it doesn't affect the deficit at all. they want to do away with the epa so companies can go back to poisoning our water and air with impunity. they want to do away with the department of education so that eventually only the rich will be able to afford to send their kids to school. they want to destroy those 'evil' unions, so that YOU, the every day worker in this country will have NO protection from you employer. don't forget labor laws can be taken away just as easily as they were instated. better yet, let's try and remember why those laws were put into place to begin with. it wasn't because our employers are so thoughtful and considerate of their employees. they want to do away with early child education and medical help for not just the elderly, but the disabled AND the mentally challenged. how does that sound for conspiracy theory? heh?

except, that paul ryan, mitt romney, rick perry, mitch mcconnell, the list goes on have come right out in public and advocated for these restrictions. all in the name of freedom from government control. and these are the people who so whole heartedly advocate that we should ALL be allowed to walk around with uzi hanging from our waitbelts!

i would think that a true gun enthusiast would be appalled at what has happened and feel that in order for him/her to continue to enjoy their sport, that it would be important to at least try to keep gun ownership away from people who don't know how to use them and might not be stable enough to use them wisely. perhaps one thing is that if you own a gun and someone takes it because you did not have it properly stored and locked away and that person commits a crime, you should hold some responsibility. i know criminals will continue to get guns, but these shootings are not being done by criminals, they're being done by your next door neighbor.

Newport Beach police said the gunman fired some 50 rounds into the air and at the ground..... At no time was he observed pointing the weapon at anyone.

I don't suppose they considered that the bullets came down somewhere and it was sheer dumb luck they didn't hit someone.

, it's unstable people and criminals

They become unstable and criminals AFTER they commit the act. up to that point too many are simply legal firearm's owners. You can't whitewash the incidents because of something committed after the fact.

They become unstable and criminals AFTER they commit the act.

No if you can read at all, most of these people show clear signs of being unstable before the fact, including both of the most recent incidents.

Cali mall shooter

He was just mad at circumstances in his life

Adam Lanza

Most definitely showed signs way before this happened.

...we just want people to be required to know how to use them, you know like you have to prove you know how to drive before you get a driver's licence. we'd also like to know that people are going to be held responsible for the guns they own.

Anyone can have children; no license, nothing to prove you are able and have the knowledge to raise a child, no education. Nothing. That seems far more dangerous and irresponsible than owning a weapon.

Leftovers Again ?

As more Mexicans pour into our country we can expect much more of the same.

The shooters in Oregon and Connecticut weren't Mexican. Yes, the illegal Mexicans that move up here tend to belong to gangs, but they mostly just kill each other.

This psycho shooting stuff has, in my opinion, nothing to do with gangs or terrorists or any of the other crime problems we have here. It's something new... something's driving these people crazy. Don't know what it is.

What laws did Adam Lanza break?

1. May have broken into his mothers home.
2. May have broken in to a gun safe.
3. Killed his mother. Illegal under present law.
4. Had a gun and he was too young to have one. Illegal under present law.
5. Had a seconde gun and he was too young to have one. Illegal under present law.
6. Had a third gun and he was too young to have one. Illegal under present law.
7. Had ammunition for the first gun and he was too young to have it. Illegal under present law.
8. Had ammunition for the second gun and was too young to have it. Illegal under present law.
9. Had ammunition for the third gun and was too young to have it. Illegal under present law.
10. Fired the gun in town where it was probably illegal to do so.
11. Drove his vehicle onto school property with the guns in it. Illegal under present Federal Law.
12. Carried the guns to the school. Again, illegal under present Federal Law.
13. Broke into the school by breaking the window.
14. Went inside with guns. Again, illegal under present Federal Law.
15. KIlled one person. Illegal under present law.
16. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
17. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
18. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
19. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
20. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
21. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
22. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
23. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
24. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
26. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
27. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
28. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
29. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
30. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
31. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
31. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
32. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
33. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
34. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
35. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
36. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
37. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
38. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
39. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
40. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
41. Killed another. Illegal under present law.
42. Killed himself. Illegal under present law.

This isn't even a complete list I'm sure.

All this shows is that someone determined to break laws isn't going to be deterred by one more or a hundred more!

Just search your memories and try to think of the last time you heard of a shooting incident in the U.K. You may have to do a little Googling.

Try to figure it out, people. I have guns and a nine year old daughter. If I have to choose, I pick my daughter. I'm guessing some parents in Newtown, CT might agree.

SCARLETBIRDS

truthmachine, no one gives a damn about the NRA you're beating a dead horse, they had nothing to do with any of these shootings, their just as responsible as you are, more laws don't make a safer world unless you can guarantee everyone will cooperate, good luck.

That's called the Perfect Solution Fallacy

The perfect solution fallacy is an informal fallacy that occurs when an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists and/or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it were implemented.

You have to do the best you can. Tighten the restrictions, close the loop holes, and even change the weapons and accessories you can purchase. But to do nothing simply because something you do won't be 100% effective, is negligent.

That's not true. It's illegal to shoot within city limits. Someone apparently broke that law. We should probably pass more laws-- eventually they'll pay attention to them, right?

Sure, more paperwork will certainly stop someone with anger or mental illness. After all, don't they always read the rules before grabbing a weapon?

We need to get Boehner serious about this, because this is serious and you know how seriously serious Boehner can be. I mean.. Seriously.

Putting sarcasm aside, we need more guns out there. We need to sell more guns to people so they can shoot more people. God forbid they take the guns away from the freeks who own guns that are protecting us from the bad guys who have guns. I mean we can all see how good that is working for us. Best thing to do is throw more guns out there and make a shoot fest of it all.

Funny how you need to take a drivers course or pass a written and oral test to get a drivers liscense to drive a vehicle, but you don't need anything to get a gun. Just show up at a gun convention and you don't even have to wait the 3 day waiting period. They will sell you a gun and ammo right there and you walk out being a proud owner of the next weapon to go on a shooting spree.

I certainly look forward to sending my child off to school with a thermos and a .22. After all, if we all had guns, the world would be a safer place. Time to arm the children! They are the most vulnerable in society and should know how to protect themselves, right?

Yep, that way when they are on the playing field and get picked on they just pull out the great equalizer and blow the person away and maybe 2 or 3 of their friends as well. If the teacher tries to discipline them, then shoot them too. Whater you do though, make sure they understand it's not their fault, it's everyone elses and they have a second ammendment right to carry fire arms just in case they need to go hunting at school for lunch.

Brenda:

Yep, that way when they are on the playing field and get picked on they just pull out the great equalizer and blow the person away and maybe 2 or 3 of their friends as well. If the teacher tries to discipline them, then shoot them too. Whater you do though, make sure they understand it's not their fault, it's everyone elses and they have a second ammendment right to carry fire arms just in case they need to go hunting at school for lunch.

Being a little dramatic, aren't we? Thank goodness not all of us jump off the deep end.

I always thought the Founding Fathers made a mistake and it was meant to say Right to Arm Bears.

Yeah brainiac, "gun free" school zones have done wonders, haven't they? Chicago has some of the most stringent "gun control" laws in the nation (along with DC), yet Chicago ranks as the highest murder rate city in the world per capita of all the major cities on the planet.

Source: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2012/07/chicago_ranks_1_as_the_deadliest_alpha_world_city.html

But hey, let's blame the NRA and guns! The bigger issue is why has this nation become so softened to NOT FIGHT BACK. One punk, and all those adults. Nobody rushed him. The same with the 9/11 hijackings with the exception of the "let's roll!" heroes. The same with just about every single mass shooting in malls and college and school campuses nationwide over the last 25 years. We have become a society of weaklings afraid of our own shadows.

I think these shooters are thriving in the media attention they all get! Just maybe there is some truth to that? Back 40 plus years ago, you never heard of shootings like this! Then again, kids weren't growing up playing very violent videogames, watching the crap on tv and the music that is out now. Very very violent stuff and it CAN affect a young mind! Then there are the parents who just don't seem to pay attention to the kid when they have behavior problems and issues to deal with, or REAL discipline. I don't mean beatin' the kid, sometimes they need a good swat on the butt when they do something really BAD, cause time out's DO NOT always work!! We also need to let our kids fail sometimes, let your kid lose a game and fail at something so he learns to deal with it when he's an adult! I think these shooters are taking their aggressions out by shootin' up schools and malls cause they don't know how to handle tuff stuff, I don't know, something!

Putting sarcasm aside, we need more guns out there. We need to sell more guns to people so they can shoot more people. God forbid they take the guns away from the freeks who own guns that are protecting us from the bad guys who have guns. I mean we can all see how good that is working for us. Best thing to do is throw more guns out there and make a shoot fest of it all.

Look up Nick Meli from Oregon. He happened to be present when the scumbag started shooting in the Clackamas mall. When he heard shots, he took cover and drew his own firearm as the gunman was trying to clear his jammed rifle. The only thing that stopped Meli from firing on the gunman was innocent people in his line of fire, but the shooter did see him and took his own life shortly after. Who knows how many people Meli saved by being there armed?

The thing is... these nutjobs responsible for mass shootings are cowards. Ever notice how supposed "gun free zones" are their targets the vast majority of the time? They prey on the defenseless, but back down when confronted by an armed law abiding citizen most of the time. (And yes, Meli was still carrying his weapon legally even though the mall was posted with a "no guns" sign, as such signage in Oregon has no force of law.)

Do a little research, and you will find that the one thing violent criminals fear above all else is picking the wrong victim and finding out that person is armed. Make guns illegal for everyone to own, and criminals will have a field day. Law abiding citizens will continue to obey the law, not carrying firearms, but criminals will still have theirs. What makes you think criminals are going to change and suddenly start respecting the law if guns are outlawed?

Do a little research, and you will find that the one thing violent criminals fear above all else is picking the wrong victim and finding out that person is armed. Make guns illegal for everyone to own, and criminals will have a field day. Law abiding citizens will continue to obey the law, not carrying firearms, but criminals will still have theirs. What makes you think criminals are going to change and suddenly start respecting the law if guns are outlawed?

I hear this argument all the time and its not worth the pixels on the screen to show it. We have several armed militia's that protect us. In fact if you ask them, they would rather you did not get involved in a shoot out so that more do not get killed by your weapon as well. Just like in that theater shooting, if someone was to have a weapon on them and uses it, they may hit innocent people instead of the shooter. No, best thing would be for everyone to just tackle the guy and take his weapon away instead of running away and making yourself a better target. Oh and by militia I mean the police department, the army, the national guard, the marines, and so forth. I would rather have trained people using weapons instead of the rednecks out there carrying right now.

I hear this argument all the time and its not worth the pixels on the screen to show it. We have several armed militia's that protect us. In fact if you ask them, they would rather you did not get involved in a shoot out so that more do not get killed by your weapon as well. Just like in that theater shooting, if someone was to have a weapon on them and uses it, they may hit innocent people instead of the shooter. No, best thing would be for everyone to just tackle the guy and take his weapon away instead of running away and making yourself a better target. Oh and by militia I mean the police department, the army, the national guard, the marines, and so forth. I would rather have trained people using weapons instead of the rednecks out there carrying right now.

Your argument is laughable at best. In the event of a mass shooting, the police are still a phone call and several minutes away. That's plenty of time for a gunman to do a considerable amount of damage, and the shooting is usually done by the time police do get there. Evidence has shown that a gunman will either retreat or take his own life at the first sign of armed resistance in most cases. Like I said before, these guys are cowards who like to prey only on the weak and defenseless. You can ignore the facts all you like, but it doesn't change them.

As far as leaving it to our armed militias goes so no innocents are accidentally shot, do you wish to include those highly trained officers in NYC that shot several innocent bystanders as well? How about all of the other departments that have responded to a call and accidentally shot an innocent person? Anyway, don't worry. I would never dream of intervening to protect a person so adamantly against law abiding citizens owning and carrying firearms. Wait a minute.... I still would. I have more class than that.

Brenda stated: "Yep, that way when they are on the playing field and get picked on they just pull out the great equalizer and blow the person away and maybe 2 or 3 of their friends as well. If the teacher tries to discipline them, then shoot them too. Whater you do though, make sure they understand it's not their fault, it's everyone elses and they have a second ammendment right to carry fire arms just in case they need to go hunting at school for lunch."

Thank goodness they stopped making knives, baseball bats and all other things that mentally ill people can use to kill and maim others with, right Brenda? What's next, cars? Could it be, not a weapon issue, but more of a mental health issue going on here Brenda?

And, this is Brenda's response to Ryan: "I hear this argument all the time and its not worth the pixels on the screen to show it."

And that makes the rhetoric you spew right in your mind? Good luck with your version of reality.

"We have several armed militia's that protect us. In fact if you ask them, they would rather you did not get involved in a shoot out so that more do not get killed by your weapon as well. Just like in that theater shooting, if someone was to have a weapon on them and uses it, they may hit innocent people instead of the shooter. No, best thing would be for everyone to just tackle the guy and take his weapon away instead of running away and making yourself a better target. Oh and by militia I mean the police department, the army, the national guard, the marines, and so forth. I would rather have trained people using weapons instead of the rednecks out there carrying right now."

And how many times are those wonderful militia of yours, there, on time, and able to stop these shootings Brenda? Let's see, don't they arrive most of the time AFTER the fact?

Debi, you can't stop people like Brenda, she's trained in the deadly art of agenda rhetoric.

StandUpJokeOff

Sure, more paperwork will certainly stop someone with anger or mental illness. After all, don't they always read the rules before grabbing a weapon?

That same logic can be applied to creating legislation that would ban carrying firearms and/or their ownership. Do you people really think that guns are just going to disappear if they are made illegal? If not, do you seriously think criminals are going to obey those laws? Criminals already show little to no respect for the law as it is.

Look at Chicago and their laws that effectively ban handguns. No gun related crime there, huh? Let's try NYC and their super restrictive laws and anti-gun government that make getting a permit to carry a firearm almost impossible. No criminals using guns there either, right? How about LA and their sheriff that refuses to approve almost every permit application that comes across his desk? Nope, no criminals using guns there either. Three of America's largest cities with some of the highest rates of violent crime involving guns, and all three of them either ban handguns or make it practically impossible for the law abiding citizen to carry them. Banning fireams obviously isn't the answer as it hasn't been at all effective where it has been tried.

Thank goodness they stopped making knives, baseball bats and all other things that mentally ill people can use to kill and maim others with, right Brenda? What's next, cars?

Ah yes, the extremely over used example of banning cars, knives, baseball bats, iguanas, tin foil and foot powder. All the typical items that can also kill so should be banned as well, eh? Tell me, when was the last mass murder by car? By knife? By Iguana?

BTW, Brenda is correct. The US has a militia and it's called the National Guard. They didn't have the same deal back during the Revolutionary War. The citizens WERE the National Guard back then and they needed to keep their weapons close by. 250 years later we've now got a professional group of citizens we can call upon in time of need.

Oh wait, that's right. This might be the year when the Government decides to declare martial law and we'll need to fight them, right? Keep from being locked away in those FEMA camps. Or was that next year? *Sigh*, it's so hard to remember these things given that each year the same dumbass claim is made.

Last thing. As much as I dislike China, guns are banned there and you know what the murder rate is? Over 4 times less than the US per 100,000 people.

"Ah yes, the extremely over used example of banning cars, knives, baseball bats, iguanas, tin foil and foot powder. All the typical items that can also kill so should be banned as well, eh? Tell me, when was the last mass murder by car? By knife? By Iguana?"

Really? Lets see, what was used as weapons before guns were invented? Oh, that's right, man never used any other things to kill with, before the invention of the gun. Oh, and by the way, if your going to debate with someone, don't quote what they said Chris, then add to it later, you only show your moronic side by adding things they never said. And the old saying IS true, one can't argue with fools like yourself and Brenda, because people like yourselves will always drag us down to your level, and beat us with your experience.

Mass murders [serial killers] never use guns, except the gal in Florida some years ago. They all prefer to use knives or their hands. The mentally ill young people that have been shooting up everyone lately don't qualify as mass murders. People that run governments are the only mass murders that use guns and they always have someone else do the shooting. Nothing here by the anti's that will help solve the problem. Why don't you anti's try something like helping to get the politicians to return funding to mental health clinics and mental hospitals.

try looking up Switzerland and guns and see how it really does work. Low crime rate, one of the lowest in the world. Low murder rate the lowest in the world. Yet they have more guns per capita then the US. It trains it citizens to use weapons and to defend them selves, perhaps we could learn from them.

He will get off with a slap on the hand because the prisons are over crowded. Build more Prisons and take away their TV's and internet.

For those of you that asked for a "more research", the following is a copy from another line, by someone that did a very good job with research.

Snakea

So since Haynes vs US 390, 85, 1968 affirms the 5th amendment right of no self incrimination making oh roughly 85% of the existing 22,417 gun control laws or there about not applicable to felons as registrations, permits, fee's training requirements, etc, etc, etc, would all involve one of the 10 categories of people banned by law from owning much less attempting to purchase a firearm incriminating themselves, explain again what those 85% of gun control laws actually do if they dont apply to the bad guys?

If 85% of the gun control laws only apply to the law abiding, explain with any logic how gun control will actually reduce violence? Make sure that when you have that data you notify the local clergy as they will want to see that God & the Devil actually exist as hell freezes over.

The US government acknowledges in USDOJ National Gang Threat Assessment 2011, see pg 14, chart #8 for that massive number of violent crimes committed in the US each year committed by gang members.

For several decades, studies have been conducted on crime and causalities by various bodies including major universities, criminologists and even the U.S. Department of Justice. These studies have found that approximately 80% of all crime is committed by 20% of all criminals. Some of
the studies have provided slightly different numbers but all of them have found that a small group of criminals commit a vastly disproportionate number of crimes than their peers.(Wolfgang et al ., 1972; Petersilia et al ., 1978; Williams, 1979; Chaiken and Chaiken, 1982; Greenwood with Abrahamse, 1982, and Martin and Sherman,1986).

Hence add in the career criminals.

CDC -Suicidal people speak for them-selves as suicide is a felony.

Shall we review police studies in Chicago and NYC where between 76-80% of those involved in shootings, both shooter and injured were both involved in criminal activity at the time of the incident.

So when are you going to address those three groups responsible for over 92% of all deaths using a firearm as frankly it is rather stupid not to address the largest reason for a problem, then again, we are talking about progressives here.

Then we should review how well those laws are enforced anyway.

Like the BATF for refusing to prosecute more than 1% of the 1.83 mil felons, others, and crazies rejected by the background check since 1994.

Background Check & Firearm Transfer report 2008

Like the BATF for refusing to catch ANY of those lying on their 4473 forms (Cho, Loughner
& Holmes were crazy, they lied) or using fake identifications.

CBSNEWS 3/2001General Accounting Office study

Like the BATF for refusing to do anything about the 95% of felons who don’t even attempt
to buy from a licensed source to begin with. So if the massive majority of bad guys dont even attempt to buy from a licensed source to begin with, explain again what the law actually does to reduce violence?

DOJ Firearms use by Offenders Nov 2001

Like the BATF for refusing to allow civilians access to use the NICS background check
for private sales as only licensed dealers are allowed.

Lets not forget that our politicians play a significant role in enabling the crazies to
go free. As a result of VA Tech, Pub. L. 110-180 NICS Improvement Amendments Act of 2007 was enacted.

The real question and failure, is what have the states actually funded or resourced to
do so?

Going to the actual NICS website, we see as of July 2012, there are only 1.7 mil records of
people who by due process have lost their 2A rights for being severely mentally ill. Yet mental health experts agree that on avg. over 23.15 mil US adults (50% of current 2.7 mil prisoners) are severely mentally ill.

So is that the 80 mil law abiding gun owners fault, BATF or the politicians, sucker question I
know!

We see from US Census, and an average of NSSF & PEW surveys, that in 2009 40% of households have a firearm. That is an increase since 1997 of 9 million households to 80 million law abiding gun owners as recognized by the BATF.

We see from FBI NICS reports since 2000 we have gone from 8 mil background checks to 16.5 mil projected for 2012, which translates per the Brady Bunch to 4.5 mil new firearms in civilians hands each year.

We see that since 1997 per FBI UCR, that violent crime has gone from 611 VCR (Violent Crime Reported) per 100k people to 403 VCR per 100k people in 2010.

That is a 38% reduction in violent crime. Did we forget to mention that the same data shows a 26% reduction in murders?

All while at the same time we see 16 more states reinstated concealed carry to 49 states total, and 35 states reinstated concealed carry in eateries that serve alcohol. 4 states and 200+ universities reinstated concealed carry. Not to mention self defense outside ones own home reinstated in 25 states with Stand your Ground, 24 Castle Doctrine (five pending change to Stand your Ground).

All without the predicted and much cried about blood baths predicted by such pundits suggests for oh what, something like the millionth time, yep. Those anti gun soothsayers really suck at predicting violence and mayhem from the law-abiding citizen, every single time. Hope they aren’t trying to make a
living as a soothsayer they are starving if they do.

So much for more guns in civilians hands equals more violence BS people like you believe.

Of course there are other countries that have recently tried gun bans, what effect did that have on their violence?

1997 Australia, Canada, England

Australia 1997 629 VCR per 100k 2007 1,024 VCR per 100k, a 32 person reduction in murders
by firearms, exactly replaced by murders with knives. Funny how that trend was
mirrored in England (ref www.aic.gov.au)

Canada 1997 980 VCR per 100k people 2010 1,282 VCR per 100k people, murder rose from
560 to 610 (Ref Statcan)

Canada $2 billion dollar plus registry, that hasn’t solved one crime, has traced 47 firearms to prove, yes they were stolen, and the long gun portion of the registry was defunded in 2012, such a common trend.

England

1898 began keeping crime data 1.0 murder rate per 100k people, no gun control
1997 1.3 murder rate per 100k people, 820 VCR per 100k people implemented strict gun control
2010 1.3 murder rate per 100k people 1,977 VCR per 100k people, murders have reduced
to 1997 levels after a 25% increase. (ref Home Office UK)

So explain again how gun control reduced violence, oh geez, it didnt, such a common trend.

So much for less guns in law abiding civilians hands equals less violence, a trend found in every single gun ban country, prove otherwise. Oh, use government data to try if you want, the above references ARE their government databases.

All these referenced govt facts, showing what a failure gun control is as it only applies to the LAW ABIDNG in the format the antis wish to push and implement today.

Unless of course you have the government data to refute all that government data, courts, rulings and agencies not controlled by the 80 mil law abiding gun owners or NRA!

So indeed, such a lie repeated as often as an anti breathes, is indeed the act of a mythomaniac, promoting a pathological lie.

Do you need more of an avalanche of facts that the antis have never refuted or proven to not exist or say what has been referenced here?

• 8

• !

#1.19 - Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:26 PM EST

You know, aside from all the opposing rhetoric, the truth is GUNS KILL PEOPLE. Here's the reason: it's easy to kill with a gun. One doesn't have to do the "wet work". Hypothetically, it's like having a box in your house with a big black button. If you push the button, you can kill someone. So many people would be pushing that button. Guns are the same. Users know that all they have to do is pull a trigger. How much easier can it get to kill ? If they actually had to physically murder a living being, they wouldn't nor couldn't do it so readily.

If they actually had to physically murder a living being, they wouldn't nor couldn't do it so readily.

Tell that to the deranged old man a few years back that drove his car into a huge crowd at a farmers market.

Until they address the real reason these things happen more gun laws won't make a difference, every one of these types of crimes has that one single common thread, you want to blame guns but the REAL issue is the crazy people who do these things. Lets take care of that problem first, criminals second then we'll talk about the gun issue.

rocky-2318920

try looking up Switzerland and guns and see how it really does work. Low crime rate, one of the lowest in the world. Low murder rate the lowest in the world. Yet they have more guns per capita then the US. It trains it citizens to use weapons and to defend them selves, perhaps we could learn from them.

Citizens in Switzerland are required to have their government issued weapon and keep it in good order.

You can look up the details, but it goes something like this: when you reeach a certain age, you report to the proper govt agency and enrole in the safety course.Once you pass, you're issued a weapon. You must re-qualify with the weapon each year. Not sure if it's just males or if everyone is required to participate.

It would be like having to re-qualify for your drivers license every year, except it's mandatory.

And Switzerland does indeed have one of the lowest crime rates in the world.

Having said all that, it wouldn't work in the US. Switzerland has a more highly educated and more mentally astute population. They don't seem to be bogged down by a population of rambos and drunken rednecks.

Pick another program, Americans; you're too stupid for that one.

Robbob--please-- don't nit pick using an isolated incident to plead your case. You've missed my point entirely. I'm saying it's EASY to kill when all one has to do is pull a trigger. I also don't jump on the bandwagon of mental illness. Not all these gunmen are mentally ill; many are just sadistic, amoral sociopaths with an agenda. An agenda, by the way, that's easily executed with a trigger rather than having to do the 'wet work'.

americanvet1

Mass murders [serial killers] never use guns, except the gal in Florida some years ago. They all prefer to use knives or their hands. The mentally ill young people that have been shooting up everyone lately don't qualify as mass murders. People that run governments are the only mass murders that use guns and they always have someone else do the shooting. Nothing here by the anti's that will help solve the problem. Why don't you anti's try something like helping to get the politicians to return funding to mental health clinics and mental hospitals.

Actually, a mass murderer and a serial killer are not the same thing. A mass murderer is someone that kills a bunch of people all at once. A serial killer does so over time. The nutjobs shooting up places certainly do qualify as mass murderers.

Anyway, there are more innocent people killed by drunk drivers every year than by firearms. Why aren't all the bleeding hearts calling for an alcohol ban? If guns kill, so does alcohol. Anyone up for Prohibition again?

Annie-322924

Robbob--please-- don't nit pick using an isolated incident to plead your case.

Why can't he? The anti-gun crowd uses isolated incidents to plead their case all the time. The way you guys talk, I'd swear people were being killed by the thousands daily by crazed gunmen and that everyone who owns a gun is just a ticking timebomb waiting to go off.

Only in America-2604171

Brenda stated: "Yep, that way when they are on the playing field and get picked on they just pull out the great equalizer and blow the person away and maybe 2 or 3 of their friends as well. If the teacher tries to discipline them, then shoot them too. Whater you do though, make sure they understand it's not their fault, it's everyone elses and they have a second ammendment right to carry fire arms just in case they need to go hunting at school for lunch."

Thank goodness they stopped making knives, baseball bats and all other things that mentally ill people can use to kill and maim others with, right Brenda? What's next, cars? Could it be, not a weapon issue, but more of a mental health issue going on here Brenda?

Wow, the mentality of this statement is incredible. Knives, baseball bats and the like do not kill mass amounts of people quickly. If that 20 year old kid came in with a knife trying to do the same damage, he would have been stopped by the adults a long time ago. Only reason he went so far is he had a gun that can kill with a pull of a trigger and it doesn't matter what size a person tries to stop the kid, they will die just as easily. WAKE UP, guns aren't called the great equalizer for nothing. As far as the cops stray bullets hitting innocent people, I would rather trust a cop then a redneck with a gun any day.

Wow, the mentality of this statement is incredible. Knives, baseball bats and the like do not kill mass amounts of people quickly. If that 20 year old kid came in with a knife trying to do the same damage, he would have been stopped by the adults a long time ago. Only reason he went so far is he had a gun that can kill with a pull of a trigger and it doesn't matter what size a person tries to stop the kid, they will die just as easily. WAKE UP, guns aren't called the great equalizer for nothing. As far as the cops stray bullets hitting innocent people, I would rather trust a cop then a redneck with a gun any day.

Wow, I didn't know 20 year olds were "kids". I didn't realize it would be so easy to disarm a knife wielding killer either. Truth is, a skilled person with a knife could do a whole lot of damage in a short amount of time.

Also, what happened to your great idea rushing a gunman, taking him down, and disarming him instead of fighting back with weapons? You mean to tell me now that approaching a gunman unarmed will most likely result in the person getting shot? Who would have thought that?

Go ahead and keep putting your trust in cops instead of us "rednecks". Nevermind the fact that most cops only train with their weapons just enough to requalify every year (the course of fire for qualification is extremely easy in most places btw) and that a lot of us "rednecks" devote a substantial amount of time to becoming proficient with our firearms.

Brenda, it's useless to debate with some of these people. They are so engrossed in their own rhetoric they couldn't give a frosted flying f*ck what anyone else has to say in the matter. They'll stand there till hell freezes over with their fingers in their ears, eyes closed, screaming "2nd Amendment".

I'm not going to play their game. Instead I'm gonna sit back and admire their posts for the idiotic works of art that they are.

The thing is... these nutjobs responsible for mass shootings are cowards. Ever notice how supposed "gun free zones" are their targets the vast majority of the time? They prey on the defenseless, but back down when confronted by an armed law abiding citizen most of the time.

I disagree, because what do most of these guys do when they're through shooting? They commit suicide, which means they don't care about dying and are certainly not going to stop just because they're confronted by an armed individual. Can you recall one incident in which one armed individual caused a potential mass shooter to back down? I can't, so let us know if you know of such a case.

Michael,

Had you read, actually read, the entire post from which you quoted, you would have seen that the answer to your question is right there. Look up the name of that gentleman I mentioned: Nick Meli. The shooter saw that he was armed, and he (the shooter) retreated. Shortly thereafter, he killed himself. I doubt very much that you will see anything about it in the mainstream media as it doesn't promote their idea that guns don't belong in the hands of civilians, but it happened.

ANNIE, BRENDA, CHRIS

You say the arguments against banning guns are all bla bla bla..

So if someone tells you the truth like the death toll from distracted drivers using cell phones is higher you po po it off.. Imagine if the liberal media made the same effort in these cases.. It would be 24/7 non stop, you may have missed the 2 seconds they used talking about the family killed by a driver texting or the school bus run off the road by a woman in a SUV reaching for her phone or the house that was demolished by a distracted trucker texting.. Tragedies happen and no matter how many laws or freedoms you take away they will still happen.. The poison gas attack in Japan where guns are illegal shines as a perfect example of the ingenuity of someone who wants to kill.. Your happy bird chirping world is and always will be a fantasy.........

Annie:

An agenda, by the way, that's easily executed with a trigger rather than having to do the 'wet work'.

Hopefully you don't find me being too "nit picky", but since you're the one continually mentioning the 'wet work', poisoning is much more simpler and can be just as deadly as pulling a trigger. It's even less traceable.

Jim Jones was able to mass kill by poisoning over 900 people. The sarin attack in Tokyo killed 13. Radiation from the Hiroshima bomb killed hundreds of thousands.

If man is intent on killing, man will find a way. Laws and regulations written on a piece of paper mean nothing.

You say the arguments against banning guns are all bla bla bla..

So if someone tells you the truth like the death toll from distracted drivers using cell phones is higher you po po it off.. Imagine if the liberal media made the same effort in these cases.. It would be 24/7 non stop, you may have missed the 2 seconds they used talking about the family killed by a driver texting or the school bus run off the road by a woman in a SUV reaching for her phone or the house that was demolished by a distracted trucker texting.. Tragedies happen and no matter how many laws or freedoms you take away they will still happen.. The poison gas attack in Japan where guns are illegal shines as a perfect example of the ingenuity of someone who wants to kill.. Your happy bird chirping world is and always will be a fantasy.........

So because we can't stop all of these bad things, we shouldn't even try at all? Your texting examples are bull@!$%#. No one texts with the intent to kill someone. They are accidents. Stupid, preventable accidents. The poison gas used in that attack in Japan was used because that cult felt they would have achieved the greatest death toll from it and bring about the apocalypse.

There is this thing called the Perfect Solution Fallacy that assumes that there is a perfect solution to a problem and that until you can accomplish it, no other lesser action should be taken. Half the people here think that until you can keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill 100% of the time, all other efforts are doomed to fail. This is nonsense. We do what we can, as best we can. So what if those efforts make it harder for everyone to get a gun. So what if you're stuck buying low capacity clips. So what if every weapon purchase suddenly had a much longer waiting period.

Those kid's right to live trump your 2nd Amendment.

So what if those efforts make it harder for everyone to get a gun.

Chris, violence is in the human DNA. Until someone figures out a way to remove it and we become a peaceful world, my ability and liberty to defend myself should not be compromised.

Annie

Not all these gunmen are mentally ill; many are just sadistic, amoral sociopaths with an agenda

Dear heart last time I checked SOCIOPATH was a mental illness.

I also don't jump on the bandwagon of mental illness.

Why not, don't want to see the biggest part of the problem fixed, so you don't care id these people get proper help????? OH ok I get it you don't care about them at all you just want to ban guns....

So you believe that someone can walk into a Elementary School and shoot 20 babies ( yes they were just babies) and NOT BE MENTALLY ILL???????????????????????????

YOU WOULD HAVE TO BE OUT OF YOUR GOT DANG MIND TO BELIEVE THAT.......

I prefer to shop online.

It's beginning to look a lot like chaos / Everywhere you go!

Take a look down your .45, glistening once again / Since you shined it right up to make the barrel glow.

.

It's beginning to look a lot like madness /Guns in every store!

But the scariest sight to see are the bullets that will be / Whizzing through your front door!

StandUp........you must be used to bombing on stage, eh?

It's called dark humor.

You might want to turn off the TV and visit actual comedy clubs more often, because REAL stand-up comedy is not the well-lit stage with the well-dressed comedian on it, and TV cameras catching all the right angles at the right time, and an audience that applauds and laughs at anything resembling a joke.

Stand-up comedy--the actual art form, done to entertain drunk and stoned individuals in dimly-lit clubs--is a dark, disturbed world with few limits to it and no concern for other people's PC standards. My little ditty, a take-off of a popular holiday song, isn't NEARLY as uncomfortable as what comedians are saying in comedy clubs tonight about the recent tragedies. I'd throw a few of those backstage jokes at you, but then you'd be too outraged at the material to bother to read that I didn't come up with them.

Well aren't you just a little ray of sunshine :l You're sounding like quite the madman, you know that, right? I'll pass on your little show.

Standup. Nice. Happy Holidays.

Instead of The Twelve Days of Christmas it's The Twelve Rounds of Christmas??

"God rest ye merry ammo mags. Yet nothing you contain. The gun store opens heartily and specials do abound. Oh, let God fill ye you merry ammo mags."

NOW we're in the holiday spirit! :-)

Santa: What is it you want my child for christmas

Child: I what a couple of 9mm's with a few full clips

Santa: But why on earth my child would you want those

Child: Have you not seen how crazy these mother fu(king other kids are today, I'ms sure you have right? Your Santa!

@ StandUp 8.1 "Take a look down your .45, glistening once again / Since you shined it right up to make the barrel glow."

The glare, from a shiny barrel, makes accurate sighting difficult.

You only just notice that, huh?

The rest of the world is not Eygpt, Syria, Lebanon, Isreal, Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan, India, Serbia, Croatia, Greece, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, England, Russia, (a bunch of former Russian Republics to difficult to pronounce), China, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, the Congo, and others. These are all places that are bigger freak shows than countries last time anybody checked. Read your history.

Go check your statistics. The U.S. has a higher murder rate than Palestine, Iran, Libya, Afghanistan, or Lebanon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Yeah....have just one tiny incident where 20+ little children get slaughtered and right away those lefties get all excited.

They're just way too sensitive. Why don't they just go hug a tree or something and let the rest of us enjoy the gun fire?

Woodworkerwayne, Why do you have to label People? I am Liberal and conservative, depends on the situation. I believe in the 2nd admendment, but I do not have a problem talking about the problem we have with guns being used to kill people. We need some serious discourse on how to solve the problem, not a lot of hatred.

Ike, the previous magazine ban was a joke because there are 100's of millions of high capacity magazines already in circulation. Do you think the nut cases or criminals are going to give them up? Get real. The ACLU is more concerned with the privacy and rights of the mentally defective then they are in protecting the rest of us. Lets identify the mental cases, put them in data bases. This tragedy was unstoppable. Connecticut has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. The nut case killed his own mother to steal her weapons. I don't know if she had one, but a gun safe should be purchased if you own more than 3 weapons. The government should encourage it by allowing a tax deduction for the purchase price of a vault.

It may not eliminate the problem but it would be a start. Maybe you Americans can collectively agree that your kids are more important than having semi-automatic weapons. No, probably will not happen as that would mean being mature, adult like and logical rather than being irrationally attached to your second amendment like children attached to their toys. Why not start a patriotic, national campain to "save American children, hand in your semi-automatics"? What will most likely happen is your country will continue to argue and talk, and do nothing. More and more dead American children, year after year, so you can have your toys.

Charles,

This was not about protecting her kids. She was a gun collector. I just don't understand why any mother who had a mentally unstable child at home would have a gun let along many guns in the home. This 20 year old was not a child.

ike 1076172 for your information if the gunman was proficient with a flintlock rifle he could load and fire

3 rounds a minute,lets see it took police 9 mins to arrive so he could have killed 27 people with a 200yr old gun so what good is reducing mag size going to do i just carry more mags.

It's like having shelves of alcoholic drinks in a cabinet unlocked and you live with an alcoholic! You know they are gonna drink up!!

deb-colorado

This was not about protecting her kids. She was a gun collector. I just don't understand why any mother who had a mentally unstable child at home would have a gun let along many guns in the home. This 20 year old was not a child.

I wonder where the shooter got his mental instability. Keeping her arsenal with a whackjob in the house doesn't sound very mentally stable to me.

But, look at the bright side: Now we really can pry them from her cold dead hand.

Smaller capacity magazines will not make any difference. In an unarmed unprotected environment a single shot weapon could have done as much carnage.

Hunting? Fine. Personal protection? Fine. Being able to put anywhere between 3 and 11 rounds in each of 27 people essentially without having to stop to reload? Doesn't even give the victims a chance. Hell, a group of white tails gets a better deal than that. Duh.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought this blog was about the shooter in Newport Beach. Not the massacre in Newtown. Am I missing something?

jetjoky,No you're not missing anything.Some other posters are thought.A guy,old enough to know better, fired off rounds at an upscale mall.He will be doing time in one of our glorious California prisons.

Let me guess.......this is all the master plan of Obama......right? Crazy bastard.

Clackamas is a conservative city in a red county. At least get your facts right, troll.

BLUE STATE, troll.

republican representative - red county

Forgetting what happened in Tucson are you?

CdB, your forgetting.. Tucson has been invaded by the liberals a long time ago.. That state now is a

toss up.. If you go figure, its mostly blue states that have all the killings.. If they would go with conceal

carry, it would stop most of this.. Look what happened to CT, with all its gun control..

If teachers were allowed to carry, and it was known, you wouldn't have these jerks committing all these

crimes.

michael aufenkamp gonna have to call BS on those comments dawg!!!blue state,red state... what difference does it make? just another opportunity for you chowder heads to try to run away from the issues cowboy.this crap can happen anywhere, any day, any time.so don't try to come with that liberal vs.conservative garbage.one thing about it dawg, when that hot lead start flying it don't give a damn what your political views are.don't get mad dawg... just doing my job. after all I AM THE BS SPOTTER!! it's what i do.

Check out his facebook page: Political affiliation: anarchist/communist. Why not leave the red/blue the hell out of it?

Please pass this on to others. The media is trying to convince us that this was the act of a troubled kid. This is no kid. He's a devout Communist/Anarchist as stated. Please pass it on.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3611_423506811050933_1150852840_n.jpg

He was and has been diagnosed as "autistic -low level" cognitive thinking and socialization is almost impossible without intense intervention.

Don't discourage him.

Some times reading right wing conspiracy fantasies are the only laughs I get all day.

(Can't you just see him.....sitting at the keyboard....eyes focused on the screen....tin foil at the ready.)

Domewars, you forgot the black helicopters.

Conservatives can't live without conspiracy theories.

Right now, it's the whole Benghazi affair/conspiracy. During the '70s and '80s, it was the Jews and their secret society that allegedly controlled everything (which I find hilarious, because now Israel and the Jewish people are our allies, right?). During the '40s and '50s, it was Communism in Hollywood, warping the minds of the vulnerable through the medium of entertainment. During the '20s, it was the Chinese that were going to destroy America!

StandUpJoke - We don't need to blame anyone for destroying us. We seem to be doing a good job of it without any assistance. I would suggest anyone who thinks they might even want a gun start the process now. After all, with more and more shootings the anti-gun people might get enough support. If all the guns legally owned is taken away the only ones left will be with the criminals, military and police. That could lead to problems down the road.

Ah, but we DO need to lay blame! Someone has ALWAYS got to be to blame! Look at the nurse in the UK. She did nothing more than pick up and transfer a phone call--she didn't even give away confidential information, like the other nurse who picked up the line to mention Catherine's "puking"--and yet she was despondent enough to kill herself over the issue. But somehow a couple of stupid DJs with bad British accents are COMPLETELY to blame for this one young woman's inability to deal with a stressful situation. The other nurse didn't kill herself. The hospital administrators didn't commit suicide, either. Whatever was going on in that one woman's life or mental state drove her to make that decision, but BLAME must be laid on an outside party... as if some other stressful incident in a high-profile, high-stress occupation wouldn't have caused her to kill herself, either.

It's written in invisible ink. You have to get it wet and then hold it up to the light.

I remember the texas shooting from the tower???? Revisionist history

What about VA tech, there are so many - it can happen anywhere.

Jack, you are kidding, right?

If only we COULD blame someone. Or something. Then we could just point at that thing/person and go, "Ah, NOW I get it!"

But these are individual nutjobs who are just going in their own insane directions. With easily-accessible weapons.

It's the Bernie Madoff theory--one man creating chaos in his own world.

No conspiracy theories need apply, my friend.

12-21-12?

If only we could all get off that easy, Charlie.

I blame the American culture. Feel better, Standupjoke?

That's fine, blame America.

But America is only twelfth in the list of top gun-related deaths worldwide. That's 9/100,000 deaths per year in firearm-related death. El Salvador has 50/100,000, followed by Jamaica, Honduras, Guatemala, Swaziland, Colombia, Brazil, Panama, Mexico, Phillippines, and South Africa.

We just have better media, I guess. But as a so-called developed nation and world power, we do top the list. At the bottom is Japan with 0.07/100,000.

And these are just gun-related. Never mind the number of people killed by knives, beatings and other forms of murder. So it is it really American culture that's to blame, or are we just looking to point the finger at TV, movies and video games rather than admit that the human race itself is a violent, bloody and brutal thing?

"Only" 12th?

Stand up is correct - after all the guy with the knife in the China school that hurt a couple of dozens.

Sounds like a pretty typical day in So Cal to me...all of a sudden the end of the world is coming and now we have all these amazing and unique stories crossing the web, since papers are dead and nobody watches the news except for Nick at Night, the Kardashians and Jersey Shore!

Killing Lincoln? Killing Kennedy? Why read about speculative opinion when you can read about the current truth! 3 DAYS LEFT FOR FREE SHIPPING!!!

Ronnie Milsap....actually we could blame religion for this. Think about it for a moment. If he did not believe in an afterlife. He would have stopped after killing his Mother...INSTEAD, he sent her the souls of 27 others that she cared about including himself. Hmmm. A physiologist was on tv already saying that he did this to further hurt his Mother.

Only 12th? And such auspicious company, too.

Please pass this on to others. The media is trying to convince us that this was the act of a troubled kid. This is no kid. He's a devout Communist/Anarchist as stated. Please pass it on.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/3611_423506811050933_1150852840_n.jpg