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Subscribe to RSSUpdated at 5:50 p.m. ET: Four people were found dead Tuesday in Colorado in an apparent murder-suicide that began with a woman's plea in a 911 call and then the sound of gunshots. A vehicle found outside the home was later tied to a man who hours earlier was released after being arrested on suspicion of domestic violence.
The four were found at a home in a subdivision just outside Longmont, Colo., NBC affiliate KUSA TV reported.
Before the bodies were found, police received a 911 call from a female at the address around 4 a.m. local time.
"Our dispatcher then heard the female party hollering, 'No, no, no,' followed by gunfire," Weld County Sheriff''s Office spokesman Tim Schwartz told reporters.
"A male caller then got on the phone and said he's going to kill himself," Schwartz added. "At that time the dispatcher heard another gunshot."
A handgun that had been fired numerous times was recovered, Schwarz said.
The dead are two males and two females, but police did not immediately release their names or ages.
A pickup truck was found idling outside the home and The Denver Post, citing a Longmont Police report, said it matched the description of one owned by Daniel Sanchez, 31, who was arrested Sunday for allegedly threatening his ex-girlfriend, Beatriz Cintora-Silva.
A woman who went to the scene of the shooting said her nieces were among the dead. Eddy Silva identified the dead women as Beatriz Cintora-Silva and Maria Cintora-Silva. She said Maria was married to Max Aguirre and both lived at the home.
A neighbor who did not know the victims said the shootings had nonetheless shaken her family.
"I got a phone call this morning from a relative saying, 'I just needed to hear your voice'," Leslie McGill told the Longmont Times-Call. "The big thing is I don't know how I'm going to tell my son about this after the school shootings and now the shooting here."
Longmont is about 35 miles north of Denver.
More content from NBCNews.com:
- Gun control offers no cure-all in America
- 'They started talking about blood': Neighbor comforted kids who fled shooting
- 'We're broken': Newtown begins burying its littlest victims
- Police: Second person injured in Connecticut school shooting survived
- Video: After Sandy Hook shooting, schools address safety
- 22 arrest warrants issued after alleged fraternity hazing death
Leave a Comment:
Just another law abiding citizen exercising his 2nd Amendment right.
People would just use something else like hammers or steak knifes but then you would want the banned as well. Get past the instrument and into the societal mind thought process of these murders. There were lots of guns in the 60's &70's for example, did anyone murder 23 at a school? You might get a solution within the mind thought process and society today.
Your comment is without merit. Blaming this on the Second Amendment is pointless.
Baddog40.... yep. Or maybe someone will suggest that the entire family should be armed to protect themselves... from each other.
The only effective solution is going to be one of both gun regulation AND a change in our mindset, one single solution is not the answer. You are right - knives can be used to harm people, but it is less likely that they might die, and there is a greater chance of getting away from an assailant with a knife than one with a gun that can be shot from a distance. There are a million factors at play here and the solution is going to be multi-faceted, and it is going to have to include some concessions on the reality of gun ownership in America. No one is coming for your guns, but maybe there should be stricter regulations on who can obtain them - along with other measures, like better care options for mentally ill people, a change in the media we all choose to consume, better parenting, etc. There's a lot of factors at play in this country, but the bottom line is that we have a problem. Stop making this a referendum on gun ownership - I'm just waiting for some NRA nut job to come out and say that the shooting in CT was staged by the President to push his anti-gun agenda (or has Fox news already stolen that platform?) *eye roll* Give me a break. Quit hiding behind the 2nd amendment - when that sucker was written, the kinds of weapons we see these psychos using DID NOT EXIST. I don't think TJ would be in favor of the interpretation of the 2nd Amendment that we observe today.
Baddog40 -- Just another troll exercising his right to call a deranged murderer a law abiding citizen in order to further his/her agenda.
I think we may have hit upon a solution. Everyone has a constitutional right to bear a muzzle loading black powder musket. Everything else is open to discussion.
All guns need to get outta here. Ban guns.
props to you kaily.....nicely done:)
cool someotherguy.....so where can i get some of those 'bear arms' that you mention as well as a mussle loader?
someotherguy- at least then if you miss you really have to be pissed to bother reloading.
"The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.... Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
- Thomas Jefferson (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria)
And just this morning I awoke to find a man in my kitchen telling me he was from the rental office and wanted to fix my hot water heater. My hot water heater is two weeks old and I never called the office about any work needing to be done on it since they replaced it. When I asked him for a work order or proof who he was, he left. I don't know what would have happened if it had been my wife instead of me that caught him in the kitchen? Should I want my wife to own and know how to use a gun? Wouldn't you?
LOL thanks for the laugh, I needed it today. My point was that the 2nd Amendment was written without taking into consideration that someday weapons would exist that could shoot 5000 bullets a minute and kill many people at once and I wonder if that is ever taken into consideration when people make the 2nd Amendment argument. I just really wonder if the "founding fathers" would have felt differently about gun ownership if they could have seen into the future.
Hey kaily, Friday November 30th three dead in Casper,Wyoming. Father and Girlfriend stabbed to death and then son stabbed himself to death in a murder suicide. Casper Star Tribune .com
confussed, you could have given him a GZ for the trespassing.............
You just hit on something - the error here is in the thinking that everyone is out to harm you - but, of course you feel this way - because it is so prevalent! Which is why I said the issue is multi-faceted. We live in a society where we are afraid if we see a repairman in our kitchen that he's come to kill us. (Now, for all intensive purposes, I'm saying this aside from the fact that you should have been notified about the repair, but that's a whole other issue of course!) So we have to wonder if we should have a gun - but that can be just as dangerous. I work for a man who carries a handgun on him at all times. I babysit his kids. One morning when he was dropping them off, my brother walked up onto my front porch. The man saw him through the curtain out of the corner of his eye and immediately drew his gun. I was like "WOAH! THAT is just my brother!!" and he put his gun away and apologized. Many people could have been coming to my door for many reasons - a neighbor, the mailman, hell, the old Jehovah's Witness ladies who come by every once in awhile - but he immediately assumed that it was someone with sinister motives. But, it was just my brother. HOWEVER - on the FLIP side - what if it WAS some bad guy with sinister motives? As a woman home alone all day with 6 kids, it would have been a blessing if it WERE a bad guy and this man just happened to still be in my house dropping off his kids and had the ability to protect us, because I certainly do not have a gun in my house. So he could have saved all of our lives. All I'm saying is - to my original point - we have MANY issues to work on. The truth lies somewhere in the middle, as it always does.
What the hell is wrong with these Blue states.
I didn't say it NEVER happened, be reasonable. You could kill someone with your fist, but we aren't going to go around and chop off everyone's hands. I was just saying that it's MORE LIKELY to get away from an assailant with a knife than one with a gun because a gun can be shot from a distance, where as to be stabbed, you have to be within an arm's reach of an assailant. Obviously, it happens. Unfortunately. But - 22 kids were stabbed in China on Friday by a crazy man with a knife and to my understanding, all 22 of them lived. We could hash out examples all day to support whatever we want, my point was that it is one part of a multi-faceted issue. As I said. Several times.
Your political pandering is not welcome in this discussion.
everyone else has made all of this political. I just figured I'd join the discussion
blaming "blue states" is ignorant though, the issues are far greater and blaming the NRA or the Democrats or the Republicans or Hollywood is not the answer. We have to find realistic solutions that better our entire society.
@kaily- I agree with what you said above about our needing a combination of gun regulation and a change of mindset. On the latter point, the cutbacks in mental health services have been severe across the US in the past few years. Not that a sudden influx of cash into the system will magically transform people overnight, but how could it hurt? Anything we can do to help people choose life over death can only improve things and decrease the numbers of these murder-suicides that are occuring at an alarming rate. With more options for help available and the better educated communities are about those options, more lives could be saved.
Like what, education?
Too many people are blaming gun control, yet they won't state that homicides make up only 0.7% of all deaths in the United States.
We have become a dumbed down society where we just accept the wrong things. Listen, the problem is not the guns, it's the idiots that pull the trigger.
You're right - but that's only PART of the problem. That's a blanketed statement that does not take all things into consideration. There's a lot afoot here, and it's not just guns, or the mentally ill. Education is a big part of it, we need a greater focus on education for sure. We need better services for the mentally ill. Certainly guns don't just shoot people on their own - but maybe there should be stricter regulations in place concerning who can and cannot obtain them (i.e. the mentally ill, among others, etc.). Banning guns is not the solution, of course, but neither is refusing to recognize that gun regulation needs to be part of a well-rounded solution.
The city (Longmont) and the county (Weld) are predominately conservative.
kaily....I think you should probably look up the stats on your knife statement. The UK have very rigid fire arm rules...so the criminals and desperate souls still find a way to kill and maim.
Logic should uphold your premise but when it comes to crime and crazy...any old weapon can get the job done. The element of surprise can make a knife every bit as lethal as a gun.
Further I think you would be absolute gob stopped if you actually did any research on violent crime stats in countries that have strict gun bans or total gun bans. Japan is just about the only country that has a system that works or at the very least a population that is not self destructive.
Again, crazy will find a way.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/aug/24/anders-behring-breivik-profile-oslo
Then their are the obvious..serial killer types..Jack the Ripper, The murder in Michigan not too long ago,
Consider Richard Dahmer...would you have drills banned or rationed as well.
This is a briefing interned for Parliament in the UK...how exactly will they go about making knives illegal? It has been proved that in the wrong hands they kill just as readily as a gun.
www.parliament.uk/briefing-papers/sn04304.pdf
Kaily I happen to feel the way you do. My father always had guns but he taught us about them and he NEVER had one that shot more the 6 rounds. So YA! And things are a hole lot differnent then when we were going up.
If i where you, i would be trying to figure out how he got in my house and make sure it cant happen again. If this where my house, anyone not auterized to enter and not expected opening my front door would have had 30 small strobes that are pointing at the door flashing with a pattern designed to make him keep his eyes shut.
A gun? For self defense? Yeah, why do I need it when unauthorized personnel are blind and puking on my floor from being hit with the strobes. best part is, they can't get around the strobes, they can only enter so far into the house before being completely immobilized.
My defensive gear can not be taken from me and used to kill people either, since none of it is lethal and all of it is highly effective at defense. Guns are not needed for self defense, they are wanted for self defense, there is a big big difference.
The deadliest mass murder situation in United States history was committed completely without using guns. Look into the Bath school disaster. It was committed using explosives that were used daily on farms at the time. Sociopathic people will use whatever they have at their disposal- guns, fertilizer, glass bottles, etc. Unless you plan on taking away every single thing that could possibly kill someone (including finger nail clippers, at least according to the TSA), the focus needs to be on identifying and treating mentally ill people.
@Anthony California
Bombs have a high probability of blowing up before the killer reaches his target. If more criminals used bombs, more criminals would be blowing themselves up before they hurt anyone.
The idea is not to expect to keep all killing with all weapons from happening, the idea is to make it far more dangerous and far less convenient for the purp.
What about that father who cracked his kids in the head with a hammer and then blew up the house in a gas explosion? That wasn't that long ago that you shouldn't remember.
And here's another thing, banning hand guns or whatever is never going to work in this country so long as we have unsecured borders to the north and south of us. Heroine, Cocaine, hell even Cuban cigars are all "banned" in this country and yet are still readily available on the street. Making guns illegal will only move the sales of firearms to the black market. Are we ready for gun smugglers and the battles that will ensue at our borders? The only way to get guns off the street and out of the country is to make people feel safe and create a cultural shift that makes people feel that guns are unnecessary.
So why waste precious time and energy even suggesting it. It's simply not going to happen.
What we need to do is figure out what has changed in our culture that is causing the escalation of violence. I think a lot of it is attributable to the loss of a sense of community. Growing up in the 70s and 80s we knew who lived in every street in our neighborhood. My parents knew the names and phone numbers of everyone on our street. If you got in a fight 5 blocks away, your mom knew before you could get off your bike in the driveway because another parent on the street called to let her know what was up. If a tree fell on someone's roof after a storm, 3 or 4 men would all show up in the morning with whatever tools they had to remove it. When it snowed, parents sent the young ones out to shovel out the senior citizens on the street. We might not have chosen our neighbors, or even liked all of them, but we worked together to help one another.
Now I don't know the name of the guy in the apartment next to mine. He's nice enough, we say hi when we pass each other, but I don't have his number to call him if I need help. I live on the third floor and have a small child but no one ever offers to help me carry up my groceries. When my son wants to play with his friend from school I have to schedule a playdate weeks in advance with people I barely know. I don't feel comfortable (yet) leaving him because I don't really know the boy's parents well even though they've been in school together for 2 years already. When my mom had a tree land on her house she had to call a tree service to have it removed. She's 65 years old and has to shovel her own driveway and sidewalk, the 28 year old next door never thought to offer assistance.
What community do we have? What support? We have our own family and friends and live our lives in an us vs. them mentality. We don't want to hear about what we can do to help someone else, we only want to know what WE can get for our OWN family. What can the government give me to improve my situation? How can I find a way to afford the next IPad on my $45K/year salary. Our kids are being raised without any sense of belonging. They are isolated socially. Texting, Facebook, Twitter - have all led to a decrease in facetime. Humans are a social animal. If you take a social animal and isolate it, it is not good for their mental health. They become depressed, and sometimes aggressive.
If we want to decrease violence, we need to increase peaceful social interaction.
Kaily , your wait it over. On his AM talk show, Alex Jones has already said that the White House arranged the shooting at Newtown to promote an anti-gun agenda.
Hi, DB and Scooter -
Something is very wrong in the US and it is not guns. The guns have been around for a long, long time without all this happening and I don't buy the instant media coverage either.
There needs to be some serious consideration given to the food additives that the government has allowed to be consumed by the last couple of generations, who are the culprits committing these murders, and who are the teens acting out so violently in flash mobs and killing and mutilating the bodies of their victims.
This absolutely did not happen forty and fifty years ago to this degree.
Nothing is going to change; you might as well be prepared for the fact that you may drop your kid of at school and never see them alive again.
I don't understand why it's so difficult to have a conversation about this.
Kaily is making many valid points and everyone just slaps them down with stories about murders using weapons other than guns. Listen: we know people will kill with all sorts of different weapons; we were killing each other long before the gun was even invented.
But we need to have this discussion. It's been over a decade since Columbine and these events seem to be happening at an ever increasing rate.
I'm personally against banning guns, but even the Second Amendment says, "well regulated." We need to regulate guns in a way that is efficient and useful. Why not treat them as we do cars, with registration, required test to prove you can use it correctly, etc.
Trotting out the same cliches and irrelevant arguments does nothing to further the conversation, a conversation we desperately need to have.
Oh, bull@!$%#. The annual rate of firearms homicides per 100,000 of population in the U.S. is 92.5 times that of the U.K. The total annual number of firearms homicides in the U.K. is slightly greater than the number for the U.S. in a single day.
@ Panhead -
2011 data...11,101 murders with guns...19,766 suicides with guns...30,867 gun deaths total...1,897 deaths by knife.
Shut up.
Your half right. You always have to be ready for your kids to not come home. Your wrong about the change. There will be change and it will target the gun owners and not the guns. Get used to far more scrutiny if you own a weapon. Also get used to the general public knowing your name and address as well if you own a gun. I fully expect a gun registry to be created for people who carry guns. Just like they have public sex offender databases.
Change will come because of things like this. Not over night, but no, we wont be ignoring this anymore.
Thing is, knives do kill people. I imagine it's a lot harder and requires up front and personal contact. Unlike guns.
Kaily
You are way too nice and naive.We are here to vent,and bash each other,not to look for solutions.
Don't vomit, you will just give birth to another goper.
I wish you'd quit getting it all over my screen.
I cannot believe noone is digging deeper into the problem. The problem is not the second amendment, it is the gun owners willingness to secure the guns they own. After MUCH research, it has been found that between 80 to 93 percent(depending which site you look at) of guns used in crimes were stolen. Of that number, the majority were taken from homes and cars. That says alot about the problem.
Noone wants to abolish the second amendment we just want you to properly store the guns.
If you can't do that, do you deserve to own guns??
QE137, the Constitution says otherwise. Sex offenders have been convicted of a crime, gun owners have not.
hagg,
AHHhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!
AAAHHAAHHhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Ughhhhh.... whew.....that's better.

@ Kaily, you seem like one of the most level-headed posters on this hot topic.
@Randy, that's what I've been preaching. A law requiring gun owners to secure any unattended firearm, meaning any gun outside the presence of the owner and that the owner believes he/she will not need it in the immediate future. If it is in the owner's immediate physical control such that it is not available for children, thieves/burglars/intruders, unstable or irresponsible family members, the gun is not"unattended." For examples, it may be secured in a gunsafe. It may be secured in that the owner has removed the bolt from a rifle and has it in his pocket.
I've posted this before, but it seems that my proposal is often misunderstood. I am not saying to put guns away such that you won't have one when you need it.
Given the understanding of the premise of my proposal is clear, I don't see how anyone would be opposed to this. Both sides win, both anti- and pro- 2nd Amendment, and the public will be much safer from rampage killings.
I apologize, I thought that we could have a real discussion as moderate adults. I didn't realize that those didn't exist anymore...
@Kaily, if you were referring to me, I was complimenting you for your objectivity, sound logic and reasonable expectations of what can happen.
kaily,
I do appreciate your commenting that it's people and not the guns. Yes, it makes it easier however, there is still a choice to make if someone thinks it will solve their problem.
Hagg,
The more I read your comments and the way you address them, the more I feel that you're a woman with a tough guy image pic. C'mon man, admit it. It's just the demeanor in which you post your comments that says "Woman" all over it.
Either that or your flaming gay or something but, it jumps right out atchya! Heh heh...
Spivey-2655264
Kaily
You are way too nice and naive.We are here to vent,and bash each other,not to look for solutions.
#1.41 - Tue Dec 18, 2012 1:09 PM EST
;) What can I say? I'm only trying to be rational just to keep from going crazy. I have 3 small children. My 7 year old is named Jack and all I can think about is the little boy named Jack who was killed on Friday in CT. I can't imagine losing my Jack, I can't imagine what his family is going through - I just can't sit around all day and be scared and upset... we need to make positive change going forward so that no other people suffer from similar murder-suicide situations such as this one and the one in CT again.
@ Creek,
Very funny post @Hagg! Inappropriate, but still, very funny!
I find it amusing that the most level-headed and profound discussion I have seen on the vine in days regarding this issue is coming from the 20 something female (kaily).
@ Kaily, you're way to intelligent (obviously) and well mannered to break through to many on this vine. Best of luck, I've enjoyed your posts in this thread tremendously. If more people in this country thought as you did we might actually be able to make some progress on this issue, but alas...
This is WHY we need a right to bear arms... 911 and the police are always minutes away when seconds matter...
you need to protect yourselves! dont expect the government to do everything for you!
really? THAT'S what you take from this article? This doesn't sound like a "home invader" scenario here...
Gun LOVERS collapsing original poster's comments....FIGURES....what morons and buffoons they are.PFFT
Our friend IXLR8 says, and I quote:
"People would just use something else like hammers or steak knifes but then you would want the banned as well"
Boy I didn't see that argument coming, lets see, "people" could have used anything to kill 4 (or 40)people before anyone could do anything about it, a butter knife, a fork, a barbie doll, a large gauge rubber band, a particularly harmful multi-syllabic adjective, you name it. Fact is, he didn't, they don't, and they won't. Tell me the Virginia Tech massacre could have occured with a hammer.
Again, you gun lovers (AKA compensators) just have to come up with better arguments, the ones you are using are inane.
Thank you! I think that we need to reign in the crazy on ALL sides in this country, like I said, the answers always lie somewhere in the middle and we all need to get back to rationality and reason-ability. I know it's a tall order and a lot of people don't want to hear it, but if we say it enough - maybe they will start to listen? I'm hopeful lol.
It's all that hope Obama brings. Everybody is living in fear and misery and some are taking desperate action. I'm afraid we will see much more of this.
That's an interesting, if oft repeated, spin.
I am impressed by your ESP; you know exactly why this person did what he did.
You should join the psychic network.
scott
Yep you're right. This never happened before obama got into to office. IDIOT!
Exactly. scott in salt lake: You need help for your obvious pathological hatred.
One track minded much?
Scott: Desperate people who are living in fear and misery cause great harm to themselves and the unlucky people around them. It is time for our society to demand better and more affordable Mental Health services. The MAJORITY of WE THE PEOPLE voted for President Obama so obviously your statement that "EVERYBODY" is living in fear and misery is false and trying to blame the POTUS for these sick acts of violence simply shows everyone YOUR level of mental health........
Peace 3229398,I am on board with your comments 100%.
Scott
Are you saying this is Obamas fault???? I think you are mistaken sir. BAD!
How many more innocents have to die before the NRA folks admit that there are too many damn guns in this country?
Don't put this on the NRA. This is the work of an individual who made a choice. The responsibility rests squarely on that individual and that individual alone.
The NRA is a borderline terrorist organization. Everybody would be armed if it was up to them... oh wait. Maybe is already is.
--Nicholas Kristof, NYTimes
30.000?...... and you beleive that B.S......?????.... bawaaahahahahahahahaha ....P.T. Barnum was right....
According to CDC
deaths by firearms 2010
do the math
There were also 606 accidental shooting deaths and 344 legal intervention shooting deaths
A lot more, the 20 kids was just a fee to go shoot on the range, nothing. These 4 people, supposedly killed by pool, knife, bat or car mean nothing. Many, many many more people will have to die before the conversation even begins. Read these boards, not many people care as long as it is not their family. When everyone has a gun and the local Walmart is a warzone you may have some luck.
Jersey Mike - How is the NRA responsible for use of the gun? That is like saying Chris Christie is responsible for the destruction of the hurricane - after all, he knew there was the possibility of somebody getting hurt and property being damaged.
It's quite well documented, and it's actually slightly more than 30,000, according to the CDC. 85 per day. About 96% of them are intentional as opposed to accidental. About 60% of them are suicides, and the rest are some form of homicides - around 10,000 or so firearms homicides every year.
Pay attention.
You are making the invalid assumption that IA.ScooterTramp can do math.
Why? Did Christie spend millions of dollars to lobby for more hurricanes, or less hurricane preparedness? I don't think so.
The NRA lobbies to prevent gun safety regulations and then blames everyone else when guns aren't used safely. They lobby against rules requiring the gun safety training that they say they support, against rules requiring gun owners to report when a gun is lost or stolen, against rules requiring background checks on private sales and transfers of weapons, against rules that owners be required to secure their weapons, against high capacity magazines that have no practical value in target shooting or hunting. Unless you think hunting means it's necessary to perforate a deer.
Why shouldn't the NRA be held responsible for their own actions? They demand that everyone should be!
If someone has it in his/her evil heart to kill, any weapon can be used. I'm no NRA-enthusiast and will never own a gun, but you can't blame this kind of evil on the NRA. Whether or not people should have assault weapons is a whole other issue, but even that has nothing to do with this story since a handgun was used.
The question is why some people think that the solution to their problems is to take the lives of others and/or themselves. That's nothing more than a chicken sh*t act and it solves nothing. While I don't condone suicide and reiterate that it is NOT a solution, if someone is that hell-bent to die -- why take others along? It's sick and it's tragically sad and it traumatizes immediate family, extended family, neighbors, friends, and entire communities. It's so senseless.
So we need more murders by guns to make a change to our "any as*hole off the street can buy a gun" law. I don't get it.
GA Scooter....
Yeah, the NRA put a gun to this guys head and made him do it. Yup, NRA's fault.
Well?! What the hell.........gotta blame it on somebody now. Ya know?!
Heeeey....you know I'm just starting to realize that the NRA put a lot of guns out there and people are blaming the NRA for all these shootings. Hmmmmmmmm
I guess it's Twinkies fault 50% of you ANTI-NRA people are fat ass slobs and the other 50% have issues. You know,.....like they tied your hands behind your back and forced them down your throat.
Yeah, that's it. That's the analogy...
True Fact, in a domestic violence situation, a woman is 12x more likely to die if her abuser owns a gun. That is not to say women don't die when their abuser doesn't own a gun, just that for every one that is beaten or strangled, there are 12 that die from being shot.
There was a guy who was ordered to surrender his guns, the next day, he went and legally bought another handgun because there is no national list to keep these jerks on. He then proceeded to kill his wife and several others. There needs to be a national list of individuals who are banned from buying guns. Mentally Ill, Suspected Terrorists, Criminals and those covered by protection orders. If you feel you don't belong on the list, you should have to prove it to a board. The rest of us can just put up with a background check and wait 72hrs-7days for our guns. Its not that big of an inconvenience.
Another true fact. If you live in a home that has a firearm in it, you are twice as likely to die a violent death than one that does not. Something to chew on for those who always bring up the "home invader" boogeyman.
http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
haggisbingo-2225582 you make me vomit. Your the biggest idiot here boy.
"Your the biggest idiot here boy." -stevephoenix-4019717
You probably didn't know this, stevephoenix-4019717, but "you are" is contracted to "you're".
Colorado has a mandatory arrest for suspected domestic violence (no actual proof need, just a suspicion). I imagine she probably threated to call police during an argument and the guy just wasn't interested in going back to jail.
That's basically how I read the, "No No No." People don't call 911 'while' the gun is being pointed at them, it is usually just before.
Good job Bob Freebird! I have tried endlessly to correct the grammer of these folks, but, alas, it is futile. One only has to google "posters made by tea party members" to understand why. They are constantly blathering about the constitution, but can't even spell it correctly. Keep up the effort, though!
This is a perfect example of why not to ban guns ,the shooter who has no regard for life will always get a gun some where so we need them for self defense. I would have been waiting for him as he had already been locked up for violence.
Foolish comments. There are millions of guns owned by millions of people. It's a small percent of a percent that behave this way. If guns were taken away you'd still see killing with kitchen knives, pipe wrenches, arson, or tennis rackets, etc.
Seriously, there should be a ban on cowards rather than guns. That's all these murderers are, a bunch of wack-a-do cowards.
You gun lovers are boring. All we hear from the gun lovers is
You need to ask the NRA for some more propoganda. The same old BS is getting boring. And seriously, what kind of a coward needs a gun to protect themself?
Jersey,
I agree, like their AR-15 is going to be able to hold off a SWAT team or the military. Whatever you have, they (the government) have more and bigger ones.
KungFu,
Yes, killings will continue with whatever is at hand, but not with as much success or distance.
@Jersey Michael
You liberals are boring. All we hear from the liberals is:
The same old liberal BS is getting boring. And seriously, what kind of coward needs a gun to protect themselves?
I would bet you are too cowardly to go up to your local law enforcement employees and call him a coward to his face and try to disarm him.
I'm not a "gun lover," propaganda regurgitator, or a fool. I'm a realist.
Our nation grew up with weapons and fighting. It's hard to change the culture of behavior/beliefs. It's also why we're different than Brazil, Cuba, New Zealand, Sweden, etc., in respect to firearms. I grew up in one of the toughest east coast towns and "cowards" use bricks, knives, brass knuckles, or whatever else the could get their hands on. This was long before I had an opinion on gun control. I was just trying to keep myself out of trouble, mostly.
To me, comments like yours are pretty meaningless because you're blabbing about nothing useful. Take a look at the issues, e.g., what's behind the shootings. This school shooter was denied a gun when he attempted to buy one, the gun control law worked. What did he do to get the guns? He killed his MOTHER. That doesn't sound like a gun issue to me but, rather, an issue of mental illness that was left unchecked. Oh and one of cowardice because I'd bet my paycheck he knew the difference between right and wrong. As well, I'd go along with the idea that this kid did these acts to be remembered.
Jersey, does that help explain my point better?
No liberal has ever said any of those things. If you think they did, I suggest a comprehension issue.
The U.S. in 8th in gun violence, and #1 in gun ownership, world wide(as of 2007 which are the most recently available figures I have found). We are just behind Mexico in terms of gun violence per 100,000 people. Mexico is 3.662, the US is 3.6. The sad part is, Mexico has the drug cartels contributing to their gun violence, the US, not as much, and in all murders in which weapons were used, in 2011, firearms accounted for 68%. Granted no distinction between legal and illegal firearms, but still, that is a lot.
I will admit there is no silver bullet for the gun issue, but there are things that can be done, to try and keep them out of the hands of the violent, and the unstable. Better gun laws, improved mental health programs, and, oddly enough, ending certain drug prohibitions. Drug related killings do factor in to the equation, too. Tough gun laws combined with measured legalization would see a decrease in violent crimes related to drugs(I would add meth to the list of drugs to keep illegal, though. Nasty nasty nasty nasty stuff. And PCP. That wouldn't decrease violence, that would up it).
Okay Jersey, you trolled me and I fell for it.
1. True
2. No, hardly. I'd say they care about easiest opportunity. You'd never see this the type of massacre attempted at a place where people could defend themselves. Instead it's against children or in the cover of darkness at a movie theater or walking up behind an unaware person or in their sleep.... I could go on. Not one was against a person that had a fighting chance.
3. Dumb. It's not about revolting. In fact, the U.S. is terrible at revolutions since our govt. and people have wussified us. Tunisia did it with rocks, Twitter/Facebook, a massive amount of people, and a few guns here and there. And, look where they are again, square one. Sucks. Yes we have our voting booths but people stopped thinking for themselves and mostly operate on the emotion of rhetoric from party lines - like you.
4. This already happens. These people are fools. This doesn't happen to people with common sense. Look at the types of people doing this.
5. Really? Really? I agreed with the first part, kind-of, but REALLY? on the second part. Shotguns are an easy to weild firearm and one of the most popular for home defense. Next.
6. Tell me how this is true? Look up Josh Powell. That wack-nut hit his kids in the head with an axe and burned the house down. Yeah, sounds surviveable. I'd take my chances with a bullet wound first.
Lastly, I'm surprised you didn't bring up some other talking points like:
7. Banning guns will work out just like it worked for banning meth. Oh wait.
8. If guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
Just want to say how sad it is to hear about this and may the families find peace in the days ahead. Really sad to hear :(
Gun control won't solve anything for the victims will be met with other objects. Let's not forget the event that occurred in China recently. The person came to the school with a knife and hurt just as many children. What I see happening is Mental Health isn't being taking as seriously as it should. The state always cuts Mental Health first out of the budget. These people thrive far better with medication management. Yes this opens too many questions and will put the blame back on the government but it's a fact that needs to be taken seriously. Mother Lamza was afraid to talk about her son with a mental illness because of the large stigma involving Mentally ill people. It needs to be understood that people who have good medication management will succeed far better than ones without.
Error!!
Mental Health.... Mental Health .....Mental Health!!!! yeah like that's going to happen or any concrete progress will be made with that strategy...
Take concrete action now:
BAN high-capacity magazines and assault weapons NOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
Nobody needs this crap except for killing many, many people (kids!)
Oh KungFuBowler, and you, a person (I presume) who feels they need multiple guns with high volume ammunition clips that you can reload multiple times, so that you can get off hundreds of rounds in minutes, against some perceived criminal, who you could most likely put down with a two shot derringer, are not a coward? That in continuing to insist that your individual rights to an arsenal of firepower, (and to hell with the lives of anyone who gets in the way of one (or 10) of these rounds, including 10 rounds shot at kindergarteners), are so brave.
Haggis, I'm the furthest thing from a gun nut. However, I don't agree with taking away rights because there are sick people out there.
I'm not exactly sure why you responded to my comment.
except no one died in that knife attack. It's common sense that it's easier to defend against a knife wielding attacker than one holding a gun.
I'm sick and tired of people unwilling to accept any change, based on their strong ideals about any given issues. Put those ideals aside and let's try something new.
Yes, we need to offer better support for those that have mental issues. One solution will not cure this issue, it's going to take many changes both in society, in the household, and in out legal system.
With your argument, we might as well not regulate any new drug that pops up, bath salts? let's not control it because people will find another way to get high anyways, it's not going to solve the drug problem. Our political and legal system needs to be more robust, to where we can handle any given issue as it arises. At the present time access to firearms is the issue so lets deal with that. When people start committing these acts using knives like many of you suggest, we will be forced to take some form of action eventually.
Guitarma, who are you talking about? Me? A coward? I've got enough integrity/common sense/self respect to know that a gun ban doesn't solve the real issue at hand.
The real issue is not the firearm. The firearm was not the motivation for these senseless acts. The firearm was the tool of destruction. They are dangerous, I'd never deny it.
As well, a ban, however, could make these items MORE desirable. Look at prohibition in the US and the way it was thought of (not much different than the current "feelings" toward firearms). What did the 18th amendment accomplish?
So, say we repeal the second amendment? What happens then? What? Are the sickos going to close up shop and take up knitting? People, if you're going to type stuff, think. Think about the root cause.
Guitarma, would it shock you to know that I own zero guns? It's true.
I like rights and freedom. I like being able make a choice.
I hate violence. I've seen enough to know the tool of destruction is not the cause.
I read a couple of your comments and undersatnd where you are coming from, but part of your attitude about this is exactly the problem. You assume that if semi-automatic and automatice "assault" weapons bans and limited supplying of ammo automatically means all guns will be banned. We are not talking about banning all guns, and we aren't excluding mental healt issues and reform, but to ignore the gun side is to do what we have been doing all along. We have turned our back too many times and now these incidents have left the "isolated incident" category and have now become the norm. We need better enforcement of current laws, some kind of new deterrence against assualt rifles and massive clips, mental health reform, among other things. How about manditory training on firing a weapon before being able to purchase a gun? Education needs to be just as much a part of this as everything else. Freedom isn't free, and it's time for everyone to come to the table, put their ideological arguements aside, and sacrifice something so that we can deter and reduce these events from happening. No one says there will ever be a perfect answer that stops all events of this magnitude, but we can stop it from being the norm.
There sure a bunch of morons from both sides taking tragedies and an opportunity to act like MORONS.
You all should be ashamed, but I imagine you're not.
And, what's worse, in 2 weeks this tragedy will be a distant memory, hardly spoken of.
I somewhat agree with you. You have folks calling others names that have never broken any kind of gun laws and law abiding. Their rant should be with the people using them for crimes not innocent people. Then the gun owners ripping others that have committed no crimes either. If both sides can sit down together to figure out how to keep guns away from children, criminals and sick or insane folks to make it a better place to live in. To even state "Ban Guns" is not reality. You can't remove 300 million guns from 100 million people and put the 50 million in jails because they won't. Hell they let criminals out early from prison's and jails because of over crowding. Besides criminals have them illegally and would never give them up anyway. The problem is also the media putting up every murder for people to see and think we are in a World of Trouble. If they put up ever person killed in a car accident you would not have time to read everyone of them because there are thousands a year, every year. We need to keep guns away from people who would use them to harm others. Since that is so broad because in every walks of life it could be a banker, father, mother, son, uncle, brick layer, Wall street fund seller, baseball player, football player, car salesman, you name it. The reasons can be many, divorce, money problems, lose home, hatred, bigotry, Religious fanatic, criminals, again you name it. 300 million plus folks in the USA and anyone could go off the deep end and kill people with a gun or whatever. You can see what WE are up against. How about something simple as live your life and NOT trod on others. Again people are responsible for their own actions, period. There may be ways to curb the violence but it will continue because people are ALL different from one another with their own agendas, Gods and ideas how everyone else should live their life. Stop with all the hate spewing remarks to begin with. We all have to live here and none of us on these posts want to kill anyone. Well hopefully anyway. Something needs to be done but taking folks rights away that DON'T break the laws is not one of them. Please give some nice thoughts or prayers to those that lost their lives so violently.
Unfortunatly KungFuBowler this tragedy will be kept out there, the media, polititions and the anti gunners will not let this die and because of this it causes the gun rights advocates to keep it going also. These people need time to heal and try and come to some kind of terms with their tremendus loss. I can't even imagine the pain and heartache these people are feeling. But our society is not going to give them the chance. And now I'm no better than the rest, I am done posting anything that has to do with this issue. RIP to all that has died and my prayers are with all that have been affected by this trgedy
Sorry posted on wrong article same goes here though.
Panhead, before the mall shooting when was the last time you heard about the theater massacre? We put stuff out of our heads too quickly. When it gets put out so quickly, no real work is done. We ignore the issues until the pop up again.
A month or so back a student from a neighboring school hung himself on the grounds of my brothers HS during a football game. For a solid week it was all anyone could talk about. Ten days later it was business as usual. This is a sad reality with all the stuff that happens and the 24 hour news cycle.
More tragedy....... Sadly I think this reflects more on where our society is and the desperate times our country is facing. We are "fix-ated with "fixing" but:To fix guns will not fix the recession. Fixing the recession will not fix the Hollywood violence we are exposing people too. Fixing the Hollywood violence does not fix violent video games for minors or mentaly challenged. Fixing the violence will not fix the morals and family values of many. ETC.....
If you fix the morals and family values everything else should fall into place.
This has been a violent nation since its birth.
The purported basis for owning a gun if you are not a hunter is to protect yourself. Yes, it does happen. But statistically, handgun owners are much more likely to use their weapon to kill themselves or family members, as in this story, than they are to use it to defend themselves from strangers intent on doing them harm.
Please, oh please cite your sources for those statistics.....
The fact that states that have passed concealed or open carry laws have seen a drop in handgun violence tends to disprove your asserted statistics....
Guns if not owned to hunt with isn't really owned to protect thmselves but is actually an adult "toy" that is dangerous ! Kids are regulated if dangerous so why shouldn't the adult toys not regulated since they are more dangerous than the kids toys. Seems as if these killers are gun nuts that has got bored just shooting at paper targets so they go to live targets for the fun of it.
sorry C David James, but states that haven't passed legislation legalizing concealed handguns have seen as much if not more of a reduction in violent crime. The reason? Legalizing abortion in the 1970's. Read Freakanomics for more information on this. By the way, someotherguy is right, to be specific, the chance of a family member or family friend being maimed or killed by a gun in a house is 22x more likely than a perp being maimed or killed by a gun in a house. Facts can be disruptive little things.
Society needs to stop shoving depression and other mental health conditions under the rug.There is help out there albeit not enough help.All of these suicide murders could possibly have been avoided if people would make those simple pesky little telephone calls to suicide prevention numbers,the police or your family doctor.
Yes, there definitely needs to be a revamp of the mental health system to address people who have such feelings of rage and get them the help they need.
But sometimes the family doctor is the problem. Dollars to donuts SSRIs were a factor in this.
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php
Once again, it wasn't a gun, just someone pointing their finger while saying "bang".
Not Relevant Anymore
Rick-881466
Not relevant anymore
.
.
there fixed it for ya.
as i have stated before..
OK all you anti gun folks...simple solution. if you are so appalled by firearms go outside right now and place a "gun free zone" sign in your yard or on your door... criminals wouldn't dare mess with you right....isn't that the way it works?.......and besides that you get to proudly display your thoughts on the matter to your neighbors as well as all those who pass by, .......or aren't you that sure of your viewpoint?.... the choice is very clear ... stand behind your viewpoint 100% or not at all......put up or shut up.
We have been putting up, but that's done with now. The littledickers and their Not Relevant Anymore society will no longer be listened to. We will now get serious and effective gun regulation. A sad fact is that most of those who think they need handguns and semi-automatic weapons would psychologically profile as precisely the people who should not have access to firearms.
I don't want a gun, nor do I care about yours. I want a FLAMETHROWER, and maybe an RPG!! But, for some unknown reason, there are people in this world who don't think I should have things that can cause so much carnage and death.. Go figure. What the hell is wrong with them? Why shouldn't I have the constitutional right to bear whatever freekin arms I want? I don't want an AR15, I want an Abrams tank..or sarin gas. Law abiding Americans should have whatever freekin arms they want. Don't you agree, scoot?
I promise I'll only use it for self defense. You can trust me.
got a sign up rick? how about you shawn? it is after all your CHOICE ( google that word)...then put up a sign...
So, scoot. You DO agree that we Americans should all have the CHOICE to arm ourselves with whatever we want (and can obviously afford) Whatever tickles our trigger finger, is just peachy?
AR15, AK47, flamethrower, RP grenade launcher, basically anything that falls under the catagory of "ARMS" should be "our right to bear" Then, I wouldn't need a sign. I'd just park my A1A on the front lawn.
you confuse reality with fantasy...and if your anti gun, why would you park an A1A anywhere?...but hey if you can afford a multi- million dollar tank ...go for it, ya might want to get a few lib friends to help ya though, it takes more then one person operate it,( us vets know such things).....got a sign up yet?
I heart scooter!
IA.ScooterTramp
you confuse reality with fantasy...and if your anti gun, why would you park an A1A anywhere?...but hey if you can afford a multi- million dollar tank ...go for it, ya might want to get a few lib friends to help ya though, it takes more then one person operate it,( us vets know such things).....got a sign up yet?
----------------------------------------
Tisk tisk. You knew enough to say that the tank needed more then 1 person to drive it, but you did not mention that to own a tank ( it is legal ) the tank's main gun must be disabled. Why is that? We all have a right to to guns right? Any weapon we want. It just so happens that some of us want an 88MM canon, or a 105 howitzer.. Why can we not have that? After all, it is a gun and we do have 2A rights.
Who is the government to tell me can't have an 88mm gun?!?
@ ScooterTramp -
I agree with you. In fact, why stop there?
We need to create nuclear arms “factories” all over the United States. By producing these peace-keeping warheads, we can certainly make a huge dent in the unemployment problem. But the real positive result of this plan is we can then supply
every country on the planet with an arsenal of nuclear warheads; ensuring the safety of us all. We could finally live peacefully knowing that Robert Mugabe, Than Shwe, Omar Hassan Al-Bashir, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and Kim Jong-un could push the button at any time.
Maybe we could even produce semi-automatic nuclear warheads that could fire hundreds, no thousands, of warheads with the push of one button. Wouldn’t that be something?!
I feel safer already.
I have a better, more simple solution IA.ScooterTramp - how about you take your guns and move to rural Alaska, so that you and Sarah Palin can raise a brood of moose-hunting, reloading, inbred cretins who have hundreds of thousands of square miles with almost nobody around except moose, in which to fire your guns to your little heart's content.
QE, rick, shawn and Guitarma, no offense, but you guys are just ridiculous. No where in there did scooter mention anything about owning tanks, flamethrowers, or whatever crazy weapon you came up with. Technically you never did respond to his question and instead deflected like a true politician, danced around it a little bit, and then came up with all these crazy scenarios. Responsible gun owners understand a need for "better" controls and regulations concerning one's ability to obtain firearms, but to go the extreme of banning this and that is just ludicrous and will not solve the problem. Putting a band-aid on it, such as banning weapons, is not finding the root cause. One must dig way deeper than that to find a solution. Knee-jerk reactions, even in business, is never good.
I can see why scooter just stopped responding half way through. There really is no talking to you people in a logical/realistic way. Your ability to so easily throw away fundamental rights & freedoms, things that have been apart of this country since the beginning, is what's really scary.
No, that's just their posting style.
They also didn't "man up" and admit they were wrong about the 30K deaths a year by firearms, did they?
Dont blame the man who respects our 2nd amendment rights. Sadly this has happened to often lately and it has increased gun sales who knows how many fold. Let us continue to mourn those who we have lost and try to figure out why people who are unstable have access to weapons.
People can be perfectly fine, honorable, respectable citizens over the years as they amass their arsenal; then one day they get too drunk, or find their spouse cheating, or lose their job… etc. and snap, and use their weaponry in a criminal way. How can we stop that from happening? We can’t. That’s why if that happens, it’s better if they don’t have that arsenal available.
itburnswhenipee,The people you describe don't snap,they simmer with an undiagnosed mental health issue.Healthy thinking people don't amass weapons,get drunk and visit murder upon their family,neighbors and strangers.
Tis' the season to kill Holly........
Though names and genders were not revealed, it will turn out to be a jilted man as the murderer and his ex-wife/girlfriend and her current lover as the victims along with a child of hers. Then this monstrous coward kills himself. Misogyny is at epidemic levels in the USA. When do we abolish it?
Sadly, if it is a man, he did not see himself as a coward shortly before he took his own misdirected life...
is it realistic to believe that keeping a gun in your home will keep you safe? if the gun is locked away or disabled as required by law it is likely you will not be able to reach it in time. the intruder has the advantage of surprise. it is more likely that a child will get his hands on it. it is more likely that it will be used in a heated argument or injure the owner by accident. unless you stand guard with weapon in hand it is doubtful your gun will be of any help in a home invasion.
When the fhit hits the shan a gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone.
navyvet98-- if and when it hits the fan chances are you will have to go looking for your gun.
go looking granny?.....ever hear the letters....CCP?....and at home i know where they are....
a) it is not required by law in every state that a gun be kept locked up, and b) there is more than ample statistical evidence that you or someone in your family are far more likely to be the victim of gun violence if you keep a gun in your home than if you don't.
People whose only priority is to have unfettered access to guns simply refuse to face facts, including the fact that the 2nd Amendment does not guarantee anyone unregulated access to firearms, a fact which the Supreme Court has repeated affirmed.
Jersey Michael you must live a sheltered life. Go down town of your local city and see if the ideas you are preaching would deter what is happening today. All of these actions of late were committed by middle class or better families. The idea that a shotgun or rifle is safe is totally wrong if its in the wrong hands. Or you can continue to just ramble on and on!
Try walking down the street with a concealed shotgun or rifle.
...is that a shotgun in your pants, or are you just a happy NRA member?
;-)
What is going on with all of these whackos in the Blue States? Y'all are losing it. Maybe they should confiscate all guns from left-wingers. They don't seem like they can handle it.
Anyone who thinks they can always handle it is delusional. Anyone can develop issues that put them over the edge. 24/7? 100% of the time? Come on.
Wait until December 21st, there's going to be even more mentally unstable people.
yep its my ladys birthday...bet she gets pretty "unstable" alright......
Happy Birthday to Ms. Scooter
she said thanks Jack
Happy Birthday to your lady from me as well, Scooter.
Hi, Jack
Hi Mimi
Getting ready for the holidays? Looks ike a good chance for snow over most of the northern half with a mess belowt hat. "Christmas in the Caribbean has everything but snow.... eeek, snow????" (Jimmy Buffett)
ok libs here ya go...what if you finally get your way and get all guns banned...hooray ..yippee...Free unicorns...sunshine and lollipop time........everybody grab hands and sing 'we are the world
what happens when the gun owners simply say....nope...dont think so.........?
simple, KILL EM!
its always been about the killing, scoot
how shawn?.......hows that sign coming?
Nobody is seriously pushing for banning all guns.
Pay attention.
The writing is on the wall. It might take several years but someday there will be no legal private ownership of handguns and high-capacity magazines. This recent tragic incident has struck a nerve. I don't expect radical gun control to come this time around but it will happen. The public is growing tired of the needless bloodshed. When it comes to public safety there are no absolutes in the constitution. That's just the way it is. You can lash out, cry, have a temper tantrum, and regurgitate all the common pro-gun talking points endlessly, but in the end there will be meaningful gun control. Why not just accept it. You'll be much happier in the end.
Guns don't kill people, people (with guns) kill people.
nitwit's don't post on here, nitwit's ( with computer's) post on here.....
Thanks for IDing yourself
or people (with the jaw bone of an ass) kill people...
While tragedies like Newtown, CT, stand out for the sheer number of victims, we must never forget that guns are the most commonly used weapon in the great majority of domestic violence disputes.
Data from the Violence Policy Center* reports that guns are used in 2/3 of deaths resulting from domestic violence. Domestic violence is the number one killer of women between 18 and 40 years of age. Other data reports that there is a five-fold increase in homicide in domestic violence cases when one of the partners owns a gun.
Data conclusively shows there is a nexus between gun ownership and homicide in domestic violence cases. While the background checks screen against those who have been convicted of domestic violence and/or have protective orders against them, they do NOT screen against those who are in situations that can escalate to homicide.
I can't say if this episode in Colorado was an instance of domestic violence, but generally it fits the modus operandi of a disgruntled ex-spouse or partner.
*2004. Violence Policy Center. Washington, DC. Retrieved January 9, 2004.
forget fists did we?...when you start out with an out and out B.S. fabrication do you believe your post has any validity?
Actually, I am quite accurate if you care to do research. Domestic violence occurs over time and over different episodes. A perp may start with fists or verbal abuse. However, the episodes escalate and soon fists turn to knives. The victim may make it. Then, as the data clearly shows, if there's a gun involved, the victim will often die as a result. That's how DV escalates.
DV is one of the leading causes of death for women. For two thirds of them, the death is caused by bullet or bullets being fired from a weapon such as a gun or rifle. That is a fact and not a fabrication.
Ban assault weapons now. Scooter says so.
yeah.. but coulda done it with fertilizer bombs or a box cutter... or somethin... guns don't make it easy... the victims shoulda just ran from the bullets.. Gunz don't kill..
I foregt if there's anymore propaganda about why guns aren't a major problem
that post explains why Homer put you in that home...............
Just to make it perfectly clear to you person's, man or woman who think you can bullie me and take my Gun's it will not ever ever ever happen. Debate all you want to make your eutectic selves fell better but dont blame this shooting on me.
Nah, not this shooting.
IA.ScooterTramp- Yeah it's all us "libs" that want background checks at gun shows-Why don't you?
Want internet sales of guns and ammunition stopped- Why don't you?
Reinstate the ban on assault weapons- Why don't you want that?
There are stupid greedy people out there selling guns that don't care who you are as long as you have money, and the nut jobs and criminals LOVE THEM!
Can't we have a dialog about guns without it falling into name calling?
Guess I'll have to tell all our Lib friends that hunt and own guns, that they are now officially conservatives! LOL
You really need to catch up on the times and stop using Joy Behar or Nancy Grace for your info. Gun Shows allow only legitimate dealers to sell weapons. Background checks are mandatory ( unless you are buying from Eric Holder.
You can buy guns over the internet but they must be shipped to a licensed dealer they cannot be shipped to your house. The dealer then performs the back ground check.
Of course you could simply buy a weapon from the thousands of street corner dealers in Chicago. They seem to have excellent gun control.
Hummbird....
I don't sweat background checks...nor have i ever had one at a gun-show
Who care's? i don't buy firearms on the net nor do i know anyone who does.
It is widely accepted belief that a "rock"was the first "assault weapon" .....what now?
There are greedy people at the mall selling candy canes as well as long as you have money ...(those shysters)....nut jobs and criminal's LOVE THOSE as well.
quote..."that they are now officially conservatives!"..unquote...nuff said...
lib's ....WITH GUN'S???....not there's a truly scary picture...
'Gun Shows allow only legitimate dealers to sell weapons.' I suggest that the next gun show you attend, you drink a cup of coffee before going in.
At any of the 5000 or so gun shows held at malls, parking lots, etc, in the US every year, individuals "not engaged in the business" of dealing firearms, or who only make "occasional" sales within their state of residence, are under no Federal requirement to conduct background checks on purchasers or maintain records of sale. Upwards of 2000 gun enthusiasts attend the average gun show. You do the math, that is something like 10.000.000 people per year in an environment where they can buy guns with no paper trail.
Even though sales records are obviously not available, it is estimated that up to 5 million guns are sold and traded through these shows every year. Some states have tried to implement some control over the 'gun show loophole' but the NRA has resisted rational regulation. Why would the NRA care if we had some semblance of record keeping and regulation on who has these guns of mass destruction? Maybe it has to do with PROFITS TO THEIR BOSSES in the GUN INDUSTRY.
While it is true that you cannot buy a fully automatic assault rifle at a show, you can get lots of advice on how to convert a semi-automatic into fully automatic. Ask anyone behind any booth. The necessary parts are available under some of the tables.
One of the most fatal arguments against these unregulated shows has to do with the threat of terrorism. There is significant evidence to the claim that gun shows are the playground of terrorists in training, both from within our society and from without. Why do we care if another country supports terrorists or not when we do it ourselves?
Hint: Your comments about Holder and Chicago just add to the image of your blind stupidity.
navyvet98
You really need to catch up on the times and stop using Joy Behar or Nancy Grace for your info. Gun Shows allow only legitimate dealers to sell weapons. Background checks are mandatory ( unless you are buying from Eric Holder.
Do you EVER research ANYTHING?
http://www.gunshowundercover.org/
Navyvet98 - background checks are not mandatory at gun shows for re-sellers (these are not dealers).
But you are right about Chicago.
Couldn't find a single comment that actually had anything to do with the article, so I figured I'd start. Anyone else's conspiracy-senses tingling at the notion the killer supposedly picked up the phone to bother telling the 911 operator that he was going to kill himself right before doing it? I mean, why not just do it? There are reasons someone might want to, but there are reasons someone else might want to make it sound like that. Come on, let's replace this pointless argument about gun control with pointless speculation that is at least relevant to the story.
matt--when you hear hoof beats --think horses-not zebras.
At least your post isn't something that's been repeated 1000's of times over the last week.
Honestly, though - I think it's always a mistake to try to use normal human logic on someone who's obviously completely insane.