Geez, Haggisbingo, you can make a bomb out of household chemicals. You don't even need to be that smart to do it. The issue isn't with guns, it is with people.

Our society drives God out of everything we say or do & then expect Him to protect our lives.....

So sad for those that choose to blame OBJECTS for the ACTIONS of another.......

Fierce debate after Newtown school shootings: Where was God?

The simple answer is that there is no God, but people would rather believe in a mythical being, who was invented back when a BIC lighter would have made any modern person a god. They were not exactly easy to fool back then, and how many people had you read about, who have woken up on an autopsy table, or in a casket? I realize not a lot, but it does happen, and such an event would have been a god-making event back then.

We have definitive scientific proof that the Earth is at least 4.5 billion years old, yet the Christan faith teaches the world is only 6,000 years old. Believe what you want, but there is no "plan". A real "God" would not let innocent children be slaughtered unless he was a pretty sick god.

Evil showed it's face. It's greatest asset is that you think it does not exist. I cannot imagine what the crime scene looked like and thats a portrait of hate and evil..................

Ban handguns and semi-automatic weapons.

Steve-446003

Our society drives God out of everything we say or do & then expect Him to protect our lives.....

So sad for those that choose to blame OBJECTS for the ACTIONS of another.......

No. Our society says that you can have your freedom of religion. That's part of Amendment #1. However, we have a VERY clear separation of church from state in this country. It's absolutely WRONG to force religious beliefs on someone else.

“Religious institutions that use government power in support of themselves and force their views on persons of other faiths, or of no faith, undermine all our civil rights. Moreover, state support of an established religion tends to make the clergy unresponsive to their own people, and leads to corruption within religion itself. Erecting the 'wall of separation between church and state,' therefore, is absolutely essential in a free society.”
― Thomas Jefferson

So keep your beliefs in god, but do not force your beliefs in god in our government, our public schools etc.

"you make God into some kind a cosmic psychopath"

One only has to read the Old Testament for that.

¹⁹We know we originate with God, but the whole world is lying in the [power of the] wicked one.

The only place where there seems to be a lack of god is on Fox.

I think that 'haggis' might be encouraged by the cosmic veracity of some of the responses to his post. Not what I'd call compelling efforts. "Go crawl back under your rock."? "..you are a flaming hateful ignorant imbecile."? "..do you have these brain farts often."?

Unlikely they'll be recruited as policy spokesmen for the NRA. Just as well.

Whether you believe in God or not, we as a society have the free will to determine the value of human life. WE CHOOSE to help or ignore those more vulnerable than us. WE CHOOSE to shame or glorify violence in entertainment, games, real life situations. An individual may pull the trigger, wield the knife, throw the bomb, set the fire, etc. But people set the level of acceptance.

Assault weapons were originally banned because of the way they looked. They aren't any more deadly than any other rifle because they can only shoot as fast as the shooter can pull the trigger. People are acting on emotion rather than logic in trying to get them banned. Lets just take away all guns while we're at it. That's what they did in Norway, allowing Anders Brevik to systematically kill 70 DEFENSELESS people. The police can't be everywhere people.

Aaaah, the Huckster! Another failed GOP candidate for POTUS. Maybe there is a god after all who acts to ensure crackpots like Mike don't make it to influential office and instead end up as "colour commentators" in the radical realm at Faux News. What a piece of work (another 4 letter word comes to mind).

PS>>>I wish Christopher Hitchens were still alive as he could put the Huckabee's and Dobson's in their place eloquently.

We're asking the wrong question when we ask "Where is God" when these things happen. We ought to be asking "Why are people rebelling against God and doing evil?" This question stops blaming God for the evil we humans (in this case, Adam Lanza) choose to do.

Think about it---if we truly followed the 10 commandments in our society, wouldn't there be a lot less evildoing and pain? Do not murder, do not lie, do not commit adultery, honor your father and mother, do not steal--these are just half of them, but they address the behaviors that cause most of the evildoing and pain that we hear about (or experience) on a daily basis. So the question is, why do we as a society disobey these commands, and then wonder where God is when the natural consequences result? Truth is, God is merciful. Even with all this evildoing, He still sends messengers of love and forgiveness, begging people to turn back to Him.

Many will, many won't. The choice remains with us.

First off God never promised us a rose garden here on earth. The whole reason he is not with us here on earth is because of the evil that is inside many, he can not be near sin,or imperfection.

There are times when things happen that have no divine intervention. This obvioulsy was one of them. One must remember,if you believe, God gives and he takes away. We also must be reminded that we are in control of our own destinies, we are not programmed to do good, this is a choice we are left to make for ourselves.

This was the Devil incarnate that was not stopped in time. This evil was created from within not from external happenings. This goes deeper than mental health issues. This goes into a hate for life and all that is good. This goes to a wish for maximum destruction and mayhem.

The only way God could of rid the world of this evil would have been to destroy it after we fell. God did not wish to do this, for if he did we would have we would not be here in the first place. This is why the plan of salvation was created. Evil was here before us it will be here after us. To think we will rid ourselves of this evil among us by banning guns, or not playing army video games is ignorant at best.

More awareness and vigilance are the only solutions to control this evil. There is no true way to remain free and stop this evil. We can only pray that this will not repeat itself ever again.

ok, good.i have a question that never gets answered.god created lucifer,his crowning acheivement.then lucifer goes wrong.why does lucifer go wrong? its certainly not mans fault.god made a defective product.which means god is not perfect,nor so forgiving either.god test adam and eve in the garden.why? why would he feel the need to test them unless he was unsure of his creations.so is god falible? it would seem yet no one will answer these questions.(in a logical sense anyway).technically god created everything the good the bad.so why is man the sinful evil piece of crap then? and god skates away with a squeaky clean reputation.just wondering.

The fact is guns make it possible for almost anyone to kill a lot of people quickly. And high capacity clips and assault rifles enhance that ability. Who would you rather face at 50 ft - someone with a gun or someone with a knife, club, axe, bow, etc. Guns DO kill people.

That said, guns are here to stay - I have several myself. But to suggest they have nothing to do with these killings as some folks assert is patently ludicrous. Sure those assault rifles and large clips are fun to shoot, but so would be fully automatic weapons and RPG's, but we don't question the fact that they are illegal. I'm certainly willing to accept banning the most efficient of these killing weapons if it prevents just one of these tragedies, while fully recognizing that won't prevent all of them. But for every day we delay in banning them, that many more are distributed, some to people who shouldn't be allowed to have them.

Lastly, as a gun owner I find the NRA to be disgusting. They are simply another right wing PAC.

This was the Devil incarnate that was not stopped in time.

Good thing you told me that or I would continue to believe it was a mentally unstable young man who's mother didn't recognize just how untable he was. Yep, It is a lot easier to say he was the "devil incarnate"

More awareness and vigilance are the only solutions to control this evil. There is no true way to remain free and stop this evil. We can only pray that this will not repeat itself ever again.

If the only thing we can do is pray, then we are a lost cause....

If "god" is vindictive enough to kill (remember christians he controls all things, including nut jobs and if he can create life at will, I think that stopping a lunatic would be an easy feat for the all powerful) children because we don't talk about him enough, allow medical procedures to safeguard medical and economic health and allow grown consenting adults of the same sex who love each other to marry legally then you need to explain to me how this vengeful, hateful, psychopathic overlord is called a "god of love" by these very christian leaders. All people who follow a literal, fundamental view of any religion should be feared, marginalized and pushed into a piece of land that holds no value in agricultural, mineral or biological terms (The Arctic circle perhaps. There they can truly serve god's purpose as food for polar bears and orcas.) There they can be free to impose this hollow, infantile, absurd, death-cult belief system upon all like minded (or mindless) tool jobs who think that an all powerful being likes the death penalty and war but abhors abortion. Oh yeah and that children need to be sacrificed to open our eyes to irrationality. Hey fundamentalist god! F you! Your permanent absence will coincide and trigger peace, brotherhood, and tranquility that rabid fanaticism always suffocates. Alan is the perfect illustration of someone who need a one way ticket to Asslandia

@battle;

why does lucifer go wrong?

This cherub thought he was more fairer than God,thought that he was on the same level as God and with others tried to overtake God. He was cast out to the mountains of fire.ie Earth. This gave him the ability to corrupt here on earth . I say him, but this evil could of been in many forms, to reside here until the day that Jesus will return.

its certainly not mans fault.god made a defective product.which means god is not perfect,nor so forgiving either.god test adam and eve in the garden.why?

God did make Adam and Eve perfect. They disobeyed Gods word, and fell from grace. This was not a test, this was pure disobedience to the creator. God did not create programmed robots to love him. To create "forced love" and not have willing followers of their own accord would have made creation of man a moot point . He loved what he created so when they fell, rather than destroy all he created to rid the world of sin, he came up with the plan of salvation wich is all about forgiveness sir.

@p.j

Good thing you told me that or I would continue to believe it was a mentally unstable young man who's mother didn't recognize just how untable he was. Yep, It is a lot easier to say he was the "devil incarnate"

By saying this you miss the whole point I make to make some sarcastic snide remark. If you think the mother did not recognize this you are kidding yourself. If you do not think this is not the spirt of evil in human form you are also kidding yourself.

Where was God when the shooter, having decided his mother was going to have him institutionalized, killed her first with her own guns? Had she not had guns, he would have found some other weapon. Where is the government when it needs to be providing mental health care for people like Adam Lanza? Planning their Christmas vacations at taxpayer expense and attempting to disarm the American public so the wealth can be further redistributed upwards into their own pockets!

R Battle

I'm no theologin, and you should probably go to a pastor for a more complete answer. However, my understanding is that the core of the Christian faith has do with choice. Rick Warren (a pastor) recently summed it up when he said that when God put us on earth, He took the ultimate risk in allowing us to choose whether to love Him or not. Love that is forced or coerced is not love. He wanted a people to follow Him willingly. So the garden of eden was not a test as much as it was a gift of freedom. I think He knew all along there would be the possibility that they might not choose to love Him, but He couldn't have children any other way. Would any of us do differently? Would we want our children to love us because we coerce them and don't give them freedom to love or not love us? From the beginning, He formulated the plan that would bring us back to Him (redemption) by sending His son to pay our debt.

As for Lucifer, I don't know much. But again, here was Lucifer, one of His creations, being given a choice--to worship God or not. He chose not to, and became the cause of pain and suffering for humanity to this day. But for those of us who have experienced the REALITY--the metaphysical experience of the presence of God and His love through Jesus---we know the truth that as we willingly yield to His love and turn from evil, His power to heal and forgive lifts us up above the darkness and can conquer it's effects in our lives. "What satan means for evil, God redeems and turns into good."

@battle;

Love that is forced or coerced is not love. He wanted a people to follow Him willingly.

This is exactly what I just told you. This is the complete answer.

@p.j;

If the only thing we can do is pray, then we are a lost cause....

We are not a lost cause.

still the question, why did lucifer go wrong? i understand what happened, but the why part is still in question.pride and envy among others sprang forth from his mind.there was an inheirant flaw already there.if god was perfect, lucifer would still be with him.and man would not have failed the test.to put a tree in the garden and tell them dont touch is a test.also the anger raised in god about lucifer,an angry god really isnt a god , did not forgive but punished him.these are the qualities of a man.he took no responsibilty for his angels actions,(gods creation),he got angry,he could not forgive him,he punished him brutally.still this all points to problems in the creator himself.man is gods victim.

@battle;

why did lucifer go wrong?

The issue here is that Lucifer as a Cherub would never become a true child of God,but would be used as a conduit to save men from themselves and help lead them to God for enternity. He obviolusly did not like the fact he would never become a true part of Gods family. He used the power granted him to rebel against God with other angels.

This is why he went wrong. If you believe of course. Clear?

Kevin C, post 1.6 -- the Christian faith does not teach anything about the earth's age. Some extrapolate that from biblical timelines, but the Bible itself does not reference any timeline. Christian faith teaches that the only way for the individual to heal alienation from God is to humble him/herself before God, repent of his/her disobedience against God, and believe that Jesus Christ is his/her Lord and that God raised him from the dead after he was crucified/killed. Without that faith, Christianity holds, man is separated from God, and God's wrath will someday be revealed against him. Christianity does not teach us much about science, but it does teach us a lot about man's relationship with God, and with one another. You can believe or not, follow Christ or not, and In then end, if you choose to reject Christ and your wrong, you face eternal separation from God, and eternal punishment. If you reject him and you're right, presumably you will never know the difference and the earth will consume your soulless body. You will simply cease to exist, whatever "you" are... God is real to untold millions, perhaps billions currently, billions throughout history certainly, and it is pretty arrogant to dismiss the faith of those as fantasy as if you know all that is seen or unseen. God is sustaining and comforting many in Newton right now.

coral, im sorry but its not clear.the anger,jealousy,resentfulness,ego,pride,etc should never have arisen in the first place.the fact that it did shows a problem early on.these werent men these were angels or cherubs or what have you.i cant get past this.everything after that is a latter issue.once this rebeliousness in perfect creatures is explained i cant believe the rest.thanks for your time.sorry.

@p.j;

Sounds like he was repressed,and did not receive the help he so desprately needed.

Research indicates there is a strong hereditary/genetic component to antisocial personality disorder. Therefore, children whose parent is a sociopath are considered “at risk” and a lot of efforts and extra care and attention are required.

To commit such a heinous act shows no remorse or concience. This individual should not have had access to guns with his obvious mental disorders. This person was devoid of all feelings.

This was my post from the other day.

I am showing you this because you are mocking me like I am so ignorant to just talk about the spiritual aspect. I am going for a more spirtual answer here rather than clinical because the article is about "where was God"? You see it is called relevancy.

You just used the opportunity to attack me to get votes instead of comprehend and stay relevant.

@battle;

the anger,jealousy,resentfulness,ego,pride,etc should never have arisen in the first place.

God did not create Lucifer as evil but allowed the potential for sin through
free will

Coral Taxi, if you feel that I am mocking you (and I obviously struck a nerve with you) then you need to look into your own soul for the answer as to why you feel that way. I was mocking nobody. I disagreed with you, deal with it.

@ Theo: Word.

twenty children and eight adults were taking from us, at newtown,cunn very sad tragedy, especially those twenty innocents angels, and parents in great pain,now where was God?. firts of all man is responsible for its acctions not God we lived in a society that evil is everywere but as hard it might sound God can be going around everywere is evil, we live in a society withput values, and regard for life evil or is promoted everywere, God is not promoted, in fact God has been kick out of our country we removed bibles from schools long ago replaced with condoms removed god from court houses from all public places, removed anything thats has to do with God and when one romoved God out of ours lifes we invited evil in, in the gospel of matthew says satn is the prince of this world, cus this world has chose him,so we see evil evrywere, bible says blessed tha nation whos God is Jehovah, how can invocated a God that we have ejected out of our lifes, the obsent of good is evil, and the absent of God is the same.. and not guns dont killed people evil people does, u can take all the guns, and evil people will find the way and tools to excecuted thir evil plans this nation was founded on biblicals principals and we have abamdomed them, things will get a lot worse unti'll we aknowledge God and invited him back in our nation.. God blessed and conforted the famylies of those the love taken away by this evil act.

Coral Taxi: GROW UP.

You just cannot get past your own anger, can you? You better quit, because I really am beginning to think about you and laugh in a mocking way.

LOL, pulling up posts from another thread..... Yeah, you do have issues. From now on, I will look at your posts and laugh in a mocking fashion. How can I not?

Manifest destiny! LOL

Ok, you are a warm and wonderful individual. Take a pill and go to bed. I don't know why you felt the need to single me out. I certainly did not single you out. Your issues are your issues, I could care less about your issues. If you are going to address me, I will respond... but you have gone beyond ridiculous.

There isn't anything you can ban that will prevent mass murder. The Colorado theater murderer used a toxic gas that, had it been a lethal gas, such as a simple to make sarin, would have killed everyone in that particular screen venue and possibly others. That perp didn't need guns. Mass murderers are relentless in finding a means to their ends. They will use lethal gas, as in Japan, bombs, as in a huge number of places in the world and any other means at their disposal. An easy to make castor based toxin, the most lethal one known, in a water supply will kill huge numbers.

What then is the problem? The problem is that we have created a society that glorifies mass violence in a way that is fully detached from reality. We play "shooter" video games. We relish and savor the violence endlessly in fantasies and media. Is it any wonder that a small number of individuals, detached from reality, suddenly, one day, live out the fantasy they've been savoring and rehersing mentally for years?

If we want to solve this problem, we need to stop asking for a political pandering of some new gun law. Gun laws never stopped any criminal, terrorist or psychopathic murderer. If anything, they have made it easier to find masses of defensless victims since every venue where a mass murderer chosen is one where all weapons of any kind were already banned. The school shooters know no teacher or other adult would have any means of defending anyone. The Colorado theater shooter knew that the theater was legally posted with a ban on all weapons and firearms so that even those with carry permits would not be armed. The Texas Luby's Cafeteria shooter knew that the Luby's was legally posted with a ban on all weapons and firearms just like the Colorado theater. The shooter there specifically chose that Luby's because he knew no one would would have a firearm.

The largest mortal threat to children in this country is not guns. It is the automobile. Where is the outrage about the driving that kills them?

The hard thing to accept is that you can't prevent disasters, murders, deadly accidents or the rest of what randomly happens in life. We like to live like we can prevent all these things, but we can't. We like to think we can control everything through enough laws, regulations, red-tape, huge bureaucracies and draconian laws that end up affecting only the already law-abiding person, but we can't and never will. Any thinking otherwise has lost its grip on the reality that we are not in control of everything around us and never will be.

beleifs.Umm yes you did, by mocking my post, making me look ignorant because I gave a spiritual answer, then I showed you my clinical one and you just ignored that. Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones.You are surrounded by your atheist buddies , your mockery is also against my

I did not single you out until you mocked me. Then I showed how the pot was calling the kettle black. Like you told me "deal with it". I am done with this. I believe I have made my point so we will let it be. If everyone here agreed with me this would be a boring place, my problem is your mocking my spirituality.

You feel you look ignorant, that is your own fault. Don't blame me. Please show me the posts (since you seem to cling on my every word) where I stated that I was an atheist. If you are insecure with your spirituality, that AGAIN is your own fault. Why are you pushing your faults onto my shoulders? Finally, where do you get off calling me "sir"? You don't know me. I could be a 50 year old woman, an 80 year old man, or a transvestite. Your innocent assumption is not so innocent.

The freedom of religion is Called the FIRST freedom for a reason. And the separation between church and state was put in to the Constitution due to persecution by European churches. Jefferson had said something to the effect. That he cared NOT if his neighbor believed in one god or 20 gods. So long as they kept their beliefs to themselves. I am watching a show on PBS about it right now.

I do not believe in Christ I believe in a creator. One that all science points to. The infinity of it all. Put it all together and the fact that life exists and that is a high enough power for me. It all fits perfectly

Love is GOD

FEAR is EVIL

The more fearful hateful one becomes the more evil they act.

The more loving one becomes the more Godly they act.

Hi joeyfromcali: who wrote "It all fits perfectly"

I very much agree, all of Time fits very easily inside of a larger Infinity which is self defining as the Idyllic Living Moment. We all fit within this larger living memory, eternal and Infinite, As part of It. We know, in the beginning and the end that it, like ourselves, Lives only in the Moment. Learn to master fear, anger, and sadness by knowing that It (that which we are a part of in the moment) has already conquered these things.

When it comes to bull@!$%#, big-time, major league bull@!$%#, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bull@!$%# story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!

But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bull@!$%# story. Holy @!$%#!

But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is @!$%#ed up.

Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of @!$%# you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would've been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say "this guy", because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.

No woman could or would ever @!$%# things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he's at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn't give a @!$%#. Doesn't give a @!$%#, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.

So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn't give a @!$%#, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.

And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I'm big on that. If I can see something, I don't know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we're not setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.

Sun worship is fairly simple. There's no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don't have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I'm unworthy. Doesn't tell me I'm a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn't said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don't pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn't presume on our friendship. It's not polite.

I've often thought people treat God rather rudely, don't you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It's not nice. And it's no way to treat a friend.

But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you'd really like to @!$%# that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you'd have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?

Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn't in God's Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn't it seem a little arrogant? It's a Divine Plan. What's the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and @!$%# up Your Plan?

And here's something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? "Well, it's God's will." "Thy Will Be Done." Fine, but if it's God's will, and He's going to do what He wants to anyway, why the @!$%# bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn't you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It's all very confusing.

So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don't pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he's a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn't @!$%# around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.

For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that @!$%# out with one visit. It's amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.

So I've been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don't. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit's foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat's testicles, it's all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.

And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that's a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I'm sure you'll like that. Then there's Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn't care for, by the way. And finally, I've always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? "All the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again." That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.

In fact, I'm gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody's okay? All right, tell you what, I'll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I've got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I'm blind. I'm blind, oh, now I'm okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!

Compliments of Mr. George Carlin, may he rest in peace!

It's always a question of perspective within the construct of Time. Outside of Time there is only One perspective, which uses Time in the quantum (infinite perspective) and the macro (the observer, Self) as a reference of measured growth.

What's all the business about if there hadn't been a gun, oh so ready at hand, he would have used something else to kill 26 people?

Come on people, you said it, now explain it. Kitchen knife? Frying pan? Bottle of bleach? Shoes?

So much rubbish spews forth here. And Jesus, half of you sound as violent with your comments as the madman Lanza.

Where is god? god is in the same place it's always been. Don't ask me where; perhaps it's in people's minds or perhaps in another reality/plane/universe. Or perhaps it's nowhere.

It appears we steer our own ship here on this planet. We can each make it a better place or we can contribute to the stupidity and mayhem. As has been written; "If you want to make the world a better place, start with the person you see in the mirror."

I look at all these re*tarded posts here, especially those from the supposedly "tolerant" and "new age" progressives - and BOY- I actually have to conclude that WE'RE responsible for the Connecticut school shooting. NOT G(g)od, NOT (S)satan, NOT the NRA, NOT China, NOT Hollywood, but US!

Many happy returns.

Carry on, children. Carry on.

People like Huckabee are why the Republican party can no longer win major elections. They try to fuse God into politics. The question he doesn't have the stones to ask is, "Why did God let innocent children get killed by a psychopath?"

Good and evil live inside the heart of every human being, and we decide which one rules our life.

Mike Huckabee needs to save his looney pronouncements for his congregation. Let the rest of us be led by reason and by love for our fellow man. It does not comfort the bereaved parents in Newtown to hear Huckabee's stupid blather.

John-755418

People like Huckabee are why the Republican party can no longer win major elections

.

kaybeetoys

Mike Huckabee needs to save his looney pronouncements for his congregation.

______________________________________________________________

Good morning John & kaybee,,,,,

,,,,,,, lets face it,,,,,, Mike Huckabee is a douche bag.

.

(And that doesn't leave much room for respect for all of his pre-packaged superstitions.)

.

If it wasn't a gun it would have been something else you moron. Guns are not the issue here. Go crawl back under your rock.

this is bull@!$%# and everyone with a brain knows it.

Back on topic: "Where is God?" This has to be the stupidest @!$%#ing debate we've had in a long time...

@dave-2693993 - A very small minority of Catholics believe the Earth is 6,000 years old.

In Genesis, the concept of "time" didn't exist, or at least didn't exist in the 24 hour cycles we ourselves have developed. People read it too literally without thinking.

That these soulless bastards are willing to use the deaths of dozens of innocent children to try to push their completely unrelated anti-Constitution agenda is @!$%#ing sick beyond words.

CRB: If I want your guns I will get them. And no, I won't be bringing any magical sky fairy with me either. Just me

And to some of you other ignorant, semi-schooled fools, the town is "Newtown" in CT, not "Newton" in Massachusetts.

They're all behaving like the Westboro Baptist Church people, just without the name.

Our society drives God out of everything we say or do & then expect Him to protect our lives.....

HA! HA HA HA! God has never protected your lives. We have all been dying pretty consistently since the dawn of time. However, if you want to get technical. People in America are living longer than they ever have in history. They're living more comfortably. They have more money. And murder rates are down. And you think God is out there punishing us? If this is God's punishment, I say, I'll take a second helping please.

If God can be removed by a government, then he is not omnipotent. If he does not know someone is praying for him or has him in their heart without speaking out in a classroom, he is not omniscient. If he does not exist in public schools, he is not omnipresent. If he is none of these things, he is not a God.

We humans have free will to do as we will. God or no God, people make their own choices and the sick animal that killed twenty innocent children and six caring adults did this on his own. God did not pull the trigger. Society did not pull the trigger. Even his mother, who may or may not have created an environment where he developed into a diseased monster, did not pull the trigger.

I own guns. I have the right to do so. I keep a 10 ga. a 30-06 a 9mm & a 22 long rifle. They are for hunting and personal protection. I absolutely believe that we have the right to own weapons but, with that right, there is a tremendous responsibility to keep them out of the hands of children and the psychotic and to know how to properly handle them.

Automatic 25, 50 or 100 clip weapons serve what purpose? If the paranoia is that "THEY" are going to come and get you and you want to protect yourself, owning such a weapon is just false security. If there really is a "THEY", then their weapons and numbers will be far superior to yours.

The problem with full auto, large clip weapons is the amount of destruction that can be created in an incredibly short amount of time. These weapons were banned for many years until 2004. They need to be banned again. These guns give people the ability to kill many, many people in a matter of seconds.

As to the question of why ... there will never be an answer to that. All we can do is shoulder some of the sorrow for the families and friends and keep them in our thoughts and/or prayers.

im a believer in creative days/epochs but not that they all occurred in a 6,000 year time frame. where did this come from ?

The idea of the age of the earth being only 6000 years old has its basis going back to the earliest churches. Also during the Protestant revolution, Bible scholars took literal meaning out of the "begats" and added them up to come up with the age of the earth. Unfortunately, they missed a certain concept of the old traditions. To "Begat" is only a reference to a relative. If I was a descendant of some famous person 100 years ago, I might say he begat me. It wouldn't mean I was their son but a direct descendant.

The ACLU kicked him out years ago's ....and now you want to know where he was?

Kevin C-752389

People like you just amaze me. You claim God doesn't exist because he doesn't run around with a magic wand solving every problem. If that was the way it worked Adam and Eve would still be in the Garden but since Eve decided to eat that apple God decided to give us BRAINS (to bad so many don't use theirs) to direct our own lives either good or bad. All he promises us is heaven if we follow the 10 commandents and when none of us could live up to that he gave us his son as a way to him. Now I won't try to make you a believer but please don't belittle any of us that do want to believe. We will all know some day but then it might be too late for you to change but if you are right then I have still lost nothing in having my faith to comfort me during my life time. So I will leave you alone if you promise to do the same. THANK YOU!!!!

dave-2693993 : The idea of the universe being only 6000 years old originated with Cardinal Usser and John Lightfoot circa 1642 - 1644. The very early first Christians and the Old Testament Hebrews simply believed the known cosmos at the time was very ancient, with no adherence to a literal 24 hour time frame to the 6 'days' of creation.

@TrustVerify....perfect post. I miss George, we could use him right about now. Thanks for the laugh and the pure logic!

Peace!

Hey you filthy gun nuts!

Tough ****. Your precious high capacity clips and semi-automatic assault weapons ARE going to be banned and there is nothing you can do about it now. We are THROUGH with your sad pathetic fearful desires. Maybe that makes you want to use your high capacity clipped assault rifle, eh? Remember when you tried to go up against the United States government in the 1860's (and the government had far less sophisticated weaponry back then). You? Yeah, you. Gun nuttery and racist bigotry so often seem to go hand-in-hand.

And if you absolutely insist, we will pry it from your cold dead hands.

God and the Baby Jesus only care about Football, Survivor and NASCAR.

Starving and murdered children, not so much.

Glen-12

Hey you filthy gun nuts!

___________________________________________________________________________________

Wow Glen why are you so angry at every one? Poor children have died at the hands of a mentally ill person and that is a huge tragedy all by itself and now you are stirring up the pot with words and threatening people with more death. That is a horrible thing to do at this time when we are still grieving. I really don't think most people in this country are against the high capacity clips and semi automatics being done away with but they are afraid it might be the first step of government trying to take away all guns. Then someone like you comes screaming in and makes them even more afraid of their rights. Try to stop the hate and have some understanding where a nation that has grown up with gun rights is afraid. If you really want to pry guns from their cold dead hands then you are no better than the shooter at Sandy Hook.

Bear Cat - how can you say that ?

""God and the Baby Jesus only care about Football, Survivor and NASCAR""

I mean, come on ! God and the Baby Jesus don't care about Survivor... geez ! everybody knows this !

oh yeah... um, you may be right about the second part - ""Starving and murdered children, not so much""

we should Definitely DO SOMETHING about that, ourselves... Because they are on their own.

I guess I have to keep repeating myself for each one of you that makes stupid statements....

People like you just amaze me. You claim God doesn't exist because he doesn't run around with a magic wand solving every problem. If that was the way it worked Adam and Eve would still be in the Garden but since Eve decided to eat that apple God decided to give us BRAINS (to bad so many don't use theirs) to direct our own lives either good or bad. All he promises us is heaven if we follow the 10 commandents and when none of us could live up to that he gave us his son as a way to him. Now I won't try to make you a believer but please don't belittle any of us that do want to believe. We will all know some day but then it might be too late for you to change but if you are right then I have still lost nothing in having my faith to comfort me during my life time. So I will leave you alone if you promise to do the same. THANK YOU!!!!

There's a lot of mythology being repeated here. Thank God for atheists.

Coral taxi said:

God did make Adam and Eve perfect...

I've always wondered, Adam and Eve are the first humans, and Gods creation right? Were they white? If so why?

Thank you God that Mike Huckabee wasn't selected as a Presidential candidate and let people like him never become President of the United States.

Bad things do in fact happen to good people, even Church going people.

Huckabee needs to stop his distractions and lies he tells in "the name of God" and ask God for forgiveness that he misspoke. This kind of rhetoric is why we have so many crazy things happening in society today. We have already had prior attacks on Chrurches, are you, Mike, asking for another crazy to prove you wrong?

Why is this not surprising for another GOP member and Fox spokesperson. When will the religious right stop their nonsense? And you wonder why President Obama won the elections!!! Simple....Mike...you just lost all the Newton family votes for the GOP's 2014 & 2016 elections.

Dear mr. hukabee. God has not been taken out of the schools. god is alive and well and in all who believe. The bible calls the children the Innocent. If god is real, then no mater how evil you are or I am, the children are not targeted by god. God did not make Lanza insane. God did not go to the gun shop and buy him weapons. You are the blasphemer for even suggesting that God or Jesus will punish the innocent for the actions of adults. you are a disgrace to Christians like me. And the fact that you would say such things when the wounds are so fresh, makes you one of the most disgusting persons i have ever witnessed in any form of media. SHAME ON YOU.

I don't understand why my comment 2.5 was collapsed. There was nothing inflamitory in the post and nothing but truth.

If you don't believe in God folks that is not my problem but I do have the right to my post and for it not to be collapsed just because you don't believe

We are all free to speak on a message board, collapsed comments can still be read. Still, I agree. I get sick of trying to read a thread and perfectly good comments are collapsed because enough people just do not agree with the poster. I find it annoying and immature.

I can understand why after a tragedy, americans ask questions such as "Why did God allow this". Compared to Europe, americans are more religious so religion and God are part and parcel of life and expectations. That's part of my issue with this question. I don't see mass shooters/mass shootings in Europe at the same rate as I see in America. That tell some something - it's a cultural thing not a religious thing. Americans just view everything through the filter of religion - either as a believer or as a non-believer. I don't think religion is bad per se, but I think that men who manipulate religion (just like men who manipulate politics) can do evil things. That's just because I subscribe to the belief that humans are innately evil and selfish.

Atheism - hmmm. we can't subscribe a halo of goodness to atheism. If we do, we are left with science and facts and whatever the current societal belief in what is good vs what is evil. After all - in China's atheistic government - we have a policy of one child and mandatory sterilizations/abortions. Hitler's Germany saw the slaughter of millions of normal human beings whose only fault was that they subscribed to a specific religion. Science infected black men with the syphilis virus and then lied to them just to see the progression of the disease even though the disease could be easily treated. Science built the hydrogen bomb and nuclear warheads. Atheists - I get you. I was raised with Ayn Rand and science as god. There was no right or wrong - only what was politically expedient - Machiavelli. I don't think atheists have some special halo that makes them naturally good people. I think atheists are just as monstrous as religious people. Both groups have their hypocrisies and petty vileness. Both groups of people are human. We are a species that pollutes, kills and enjoys violence innately. We corrupt everything that is good in our world. So Atheists - stop being so hoity toity - you are just as crappy as the people who seek refuge in a spiritual belief.

We all need mental help for coming on these forums. :P People use God in negative ways just as there are positive ways. There will always be people who accept and those who reject God. Dont let the bad ones give it a bad name.

In my religion one of the worst things a person can do is to "join partners with God" and tell other people why God is doing what He does. God is not some anthropomorphic being sitting on a throne somewhere listening too all His Christians buddies talking, about gay people, and abortion. What I ascribe too is: "The Lord giveth, and the Lord taketh away, praise be the Lord, and Hallowed be His Name". That is as far as I go determining God's actions and doings. One of the things I believe spiritually, is on Earth everybody has free will, a person chooses his actions. That kid chose to kill his mother, then drive down to Sandy Hook School and shoot all the people. The principal and that other lady chose to charge him and were the first to fall. The police chose to rush the school and stop the killing. All using their God given free will. In my religion, "God doth what He willth, none has the right to question or disagree!"

If there was anyway to stop this thing from happening, it would have been to have early, then continuing intervention with Adam Lanza and his mother to be on track with his mental stability, and continued well being.

As too all the little children, and all the heroic adults we pray daily for the progress of their souls in the next world, as they grow closer to GOD... And this prayer:

O Lord, my God! This is a child that hath sprung from the loins of one of Thy servants to whom Thou hast granted a distinguished station in the Tablets of Thine irrevocable decree in the Books of Thy behest.

I beseech Thee by Thy name, whereby everyone is enabled to attain the object of his desire, to grant that this child may become a more mature soul amongst Thy servants; cause him to shine forth through the power of Thy name, enable him to utter Thy praise, to set his face towards Thee and to draw nigh unto Thee. Verily it is Thou Who hast, from everlasting, been powerful to do as Thou willest and Who wilt, to eternity, remain potent to do as Thou pleasest. There is none other God but Thee, the Exalted, the August, the Subduer, the Mighty, the All-Compelling.

Bahá’u’lláh

Some are saying if there hadn't been a gun he would have used something else. Any suggestions? Kitchen knife, frying pan, bottle of bleach, shoes? What, for example. You said it, now explain it.

In China there have been several knife attacks in schools in the recent years. In one there were 30 dead and 50 more injured.

To me, it is clear that belief in God or no belief in God, really bad things can happen. People don't die in these horrible ways because they didn't pray enough. That kind of thinking is shallow and simplistic.

I wouldn't worship a God whom I thought allowed things like this to happen. What would be the point? Not my idea of a "divine being." If this is "God's plan" then forget it.

Yes Jeff, you are right. Knives are as effective as guns. That's why no army in the world uses machine guns. I mean, why would they? Knives are just as good, right? Your stupidity is beyond belief.

These forums are funny.... people never want God around until a tragedy happens, then they scream "Where was God?"... Like God is some kind of babysitter following you around to protect you from everything.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way.

There is no prayer in schools?

I'll bet those kids and teachers were praying when that assault rifle was leveled at them.

What is Huckabee's answer to that?

These forums are funny.... people never want God around until a tragedy happens, then they scream "Where was God?"... Like God is some kind of babysitter following you around to protect you from everything.

I agree. These idiots think of (G)god as a butler, like Lurch. Pretty arrogant and stupid mentality.

We are free to choose our own path!

Good or bad

Tat Tvam Asi ( You Are God - Loosely translated)

- From Ancient Hindu Texts (Link - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_Tvam_Asi )

It is time - all religions adopt this kind of mindset where spirituality is based on knowledge rather than fear.

For the hundredth time I would ask these fools to give us a date in our history when we were square with God. When God should have been pleased with us. When our morality was unimpeachable? When we cared for all of our citizens regardless of differences? When we provided for the poorest among us without questioning the cost?

For every person that agrees with someone like Huckabee we move closer to the ignorance cliff. The point where more Americans are irrational than rational. These people are intellectual Luddites. They would kill of intelligent thought if they were given the ability. Proof is in the platform of the Texas GOP where a ban on "critical thinking" is already in place. This apparently means anything that contradicts or is not found in the Bible. Apparently that time in history was where we should have stopped. They belive this just as many Fundi Islamists want to stop time after Mohammed's supposed ascension.

The "thinking" of those like Huckabee is a plague on the world. This is the nonsense world that media outlets like FoxNews are trying to sell. A scary place, one that I wish were far away from these shores.

So, what are you saying Mike? If we allowed the Southern Baptist "liturgy" in our schools an Angel carrying a flaming sword would have prevented Adam Lanza from entering the school?

Or, are you saying that the Devil made him do it?

Actually, none of the above.

Adam Lanza was a mentally disturbed young man. He was crazy. There is no rhyme or reason to his actions. The voices in his head told him to do it. Voices he heard because of a chemical imbalance in his brain. Were those the voices of a vengeful God? I don't think so. Were they the voices of Satan? No, they were the voices of mental illness and nothing more.

This horrific act was facilitated by his mother's tragic fascination with guns which were legally and easily purchased.

There is no metaphysical explanation for this tragedy. It was a crime, committed by a crazy person with easy access to a virtual armory.

Prayer in school will not stop the next rampage.

Changes in our gun laws and in how we treat the mentally ill will help prevent this tragedy being repeated in the future. Also a re-examination of our own fascination with guns and violence and a curbing of our taste for violent entertainment.

THAT will do more to reduce gun violence than all the prayers by the Southern Baptists multiplied by 100.

God

Helps

Those

Who

Help

Themselves.

A "gun enthusiast" who interprets the 2nd Amendment to their liking and advantage, is not thinking about God.

If you want to see "God's work"....

it is there...

in the beautiful people who show charity, love, compassion, acts of kindness, selflessness, and goodness.

In China there have been several knife attacks in schools in the recent years. In one there were 30 dead and 50 more injured

Um, do you have a link for that, cause i'm not sure it's true. In total, IN TOTAL, 21 students have died "in recent years" over 10 attacks spanning from March of 2010 to this December, 2012. An average of 2.1 kids per attack, which I assure you, is less than the 26 people killed in 3 minutes last Friday...

So, ah, yeah. You got a link for that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_attacks_in_China_%282010%E2%80%932012%29

The prevailing theory on why Adam did it is that extreme anger and anxiety because his mom was going to institutionalize him, and that he thought she loved the kids more than him (I think she volunteered a year ago when the 1st graders were in Kindergarten). If this is true, then it is possible that Adam lived in a little Godless world which was consisting almost entirely of his relationship with his mom. He had cut off ties to his dad and brother several years ago after the divorce.

There was no stability of love of God in his life, and without this great stabilizing force to guide his life, Adam did the unthinkable. I think this is a very plausable explanation how this could occur with Adam lacking a love and knowledge of God. Of course we may never know the complete truth, but if he believed God loved him and loved God, it seems such a horrible tragedy would be much less likely. Maybe he is incapable of understanding this as an autistic person I don't know...

GOD was there picking up the souls of these beautiful children. We will all be judged in the end. Look around, GOD is around us everyday, you just have to look.

I agree with ole ed a few posts down.

Kaybeetoys...Very silly statement. You can't deny God all the time and then when someone points a gun at you start praying. God is not like NetFlix...He's not "on demand" whenever you want him. God is not your servant to obey YOU whenever you call him.

That's what's wrong with people. They think God is their servant.

"Where was OBAMA and his Anti-Gun Cowards?"

So if you're for some sort of Gun Control you're a coward? Seems to me its the other way around. I wonder if you'd be so big, bad and brave if you didn't have a gun?

Let me ask you this tough guy. Where was the NRA and all the gun loving bad asses? Home playing with their guns I guess.

"If you want to see "God's work"....

it is there...

in the beautiful people who show charity, love, compassion, acts of kindness, selflessness, and goodness."

LOL So if your a good person its Gods doing? You can't do it on your own? By the way which God are you talking about and how do you know he's the real one? Hint: you don't because he's not real and people can be good and kind without giving credit to some fairy tale .

Its amazing how one person can control no God through the ACLU for the rest of us, kind of like our election process four to five states control our political outcome! Pretty soon the flag will be replaced because it offends one person! I wonder how many children Hitler killed when he enforced gun control.

And then compare Huckabee and Dobson with the priests, ministers and rabbis who hurried to the fire house in Newtown, to be there with the families who were being informed that their children didn't live through this tragedy. You know what's crazy, these are exactly the people that Christ warned against. Over and over, he told his disciples to beware of people who "stood in the temple telling everyone how righteous they were." These are the people who pevert God.

Compare their craziness to the words of the Bishop of Connecticut;

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/faith_and_terror/how_do_we_make_sense_of_the_sa.html

We all know that God is everywhere and that God gives and God take away - but regardless blessed the name of the Lord.

This point Huckbee is making is not that God is not "present" in schools, it is that God's teachings are not present in the form of education. The colonists that founded our country built it upon religious values. Education about God's word was alway part of every school in the early years. Removing this course from the core curriculm is what is missing in our schools today. That is not the only problem, but certainly plays a role. The family unit is falling apart. Children like Adam who come from divorces families tend to get lost. Boys need a dad to mentor them. Adams dad was distant. The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother, and the most important thing a mother can do for her children is to respect their father. The family unit is the best envirnoment to raise a child, following God's word. "A man and women shall leve their parents, and the two shall become one". The Lanza family broke down - just like many others in America. Some hear the word and do nothing, others, hear the word and respond. Huckabee is right, the God's teachings are missing from schools. We need a renewal of the Great Awakening of the 1730's and 1740's. The main difference in all original 13 colonies was the freedom to choose their religious beliefs. The pilgrims left Europe seekingn religous freedom. All of the origianl colonial schools taught religion. We need to get God's words back in the classroom, but more importantly, back in the homes of our families. Mothers and fathers need to heed God's word and stay married. Divorce will cause children to crash and burn. We also need to clean up our media - how much does the movie Hunger Games play into this? It is a movie about kids killing kids. Why do we need to feed young minds those types of stories. in the end, it is God's words that need to be taught to all, as well as how to embrace and live in accordance to them. All fathers should resolve to the following resolution.

I DO solemnly resolve before God to take full responsibility for myself, my wife, and my children. I WILL love them, protect them, serve them, and teach them the Word of God as the spiritual leader of my home. I WILL be faithful to my wife, to love and honor her, and be willing to lay down my life for her as Jesus Christ did for me. I WILL bless my children and teach them to love God with all of their hearts, all of their minds, and all of their strength. I WILL train them to honor authority and live responsibly. I WILL confront evil, pursue justice, and love mercy. I WILL pray for others and treat them with kindness, respect, and compassion. I WILL work diligently to provide for the needs of my family. I WILL forgive those who have wronged me and reconcile with those I have wronged. I WILL learn from my mistakes, repent of my sins, and walk with integrity as a man answerable to God. I WILL seek to honor God, be faithful to His church, obey His Word, and do His will. I WILL courageously work with the strength God provides to fulfill this resolution for the rest of my life and for His glory. As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15

HA! HA HA HA! God has never protected your lives. We have all been dying pretty consistently since the dawn of time. However, if you want to get technical. People in America are living longer than they ever have in history. They're living more comfortably. They have more money. And murder rates are down. And you think God is out there punishing us? If this is God's punishment, I say, I'll take a second helping please!

God’s primary place of residence should be within our hearts. Unfortunately, many no longer carry Him or
His laws in their hearts and that is a choice God allows. Just as with any other choice, there are consequences. When we fail to raise our children with a knowledge of who God is and how they are to live their lives, we turn out adults who become addicts, rapists, murderers, thugs, etc. and they in turn raise their children with their own “values” and those children grow up to be worse. That slide is why many of us can remember a time when you could sleep with your windows open, not lock your door when you ran to the store, or hire the neighborhood teen to babysit your little one, but not anymore.

Until one generation of American’s is brave enough to stand up and say enough and raise their children to revere God, it will only get worse. Man’s inhumanity to his fellow man is well documented and without God’s influence, it runs rampant.

For the record, God was there that day, just as He is in every tragedy, whether perpetrated by humankind or a natural event. He made sure His children were there to protect and love those kids, He is giving comfort in the form of His children who are there listening and loving now. For those who died that day, He was there with open arms to welcome them home. The fact that this happened isn’t proof of His punishment, it is proof that He allows mankind free will.

The old saying, "we reap what we sow," has never been more evident in peoples lives today. Mike Huckabee is exactly right in his comments, like it or not. The truth will always be meet with scorn and anger when it goes against one's agenda and/or their beliefs.

While I do not want the state or schools teaching our children about what the government thinks morality is, we have given our children a vacuum when we took faith out of school and did not fill it with anything. Then to add to it we have contributed to it further by allowing our children to play violent video games that are realistic enough to see blood and gore coming out of victims as they are shot. We teach our children not to accept responsibility for actions by covering for them, and then teach that as long as something feels good it should be OK.

So do we introduce prayer and God back into school? No because whose faith and which God do we bring back since America has become so diverse in faith over the last 60 years. What we need to do is instill what is right or wrong no matter what faith a person is (or lack of it), we need to teach the sanctity of life to our children and let them know who fragile it is, then teach respect for others beliefs, feelings, and the right to live how they feel makes them happy. We need to teach with this respect. And this needs to be taught on a national rate, both in homes, in community centers, in churches and yes, in school.

But we also need to teach that with acceptance and respect comes responsibility, responsibility to show the same respect to people that make choices that are different than yours, to respect peoples sexuality, their beliefs, and their right to live life to the fullest. Sadly this is not done today, instead parents think that the schools are babysitting centers, to teach is too hard of work, and then we have people and politicians trying to force their beliefs on us and think we have to accept them, instead of just learning to agree that sometimes we will agree to disagree but with respect.

no god in schools so people get shot? ok, why do people get shot in church? hmmmm there is a logic problem.

what more proof is needed than the violent deaths of innocent 6- and 7-year-olds that god does not exist?

What does this have to do with an elementary school shooting?

"Dobson blamed two issues in particular: abortion and gay marriage."

Was the guy that did this gay? Did he perform abortions? Did any of the lunatics who shot up schools in the past several years gay or do abortions as well? Dobson, you're an idiot. Just as is Huckabee coming out and saying what he did. What a way to hurt the parents of these kids even more.

Don't republicans think before speaking anymore? They're all just a bunch of jerks with whacked out reasons for anything and everything bad that happens, blaming it on people that either don't believe in God, who are gay or are pro-choice. All bad examples, and wrong to boot.

DrowningGrover: I think jeff sutter is referring to this NBC article from a few days ago: "Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China". I don't know about the numbers he gave but there is a list of recent school attacks given, using knives, axes, hammers, etc. I read that article the other day and the flavor of it was like they were trying to say : "SEE! It happens in China too! Look Ma, no guns!" LOL. Also, don't put too much stock in Wikipedia as the final word to anything. Anyone at anytime can add to it if they know how. Occasionally, dolphins do have wings (citation needed).

Where was god, where was god......... the same place he's always been, in the minds of the ignorant, superstitious, believers in fairy tales and stupidity. There is no god and never was. Stop trying to appease your irrationality with god. You may as well ask Michael Jackson for help.

Your god(s) can't protect you, they (supposedly) gave you intelligence, wisdom and compassion enough to prevent things like this from happening as often as they do. Do we use it? No. We're generally too busy worrying about getting ahead in our lives, whether we are popular, going to be able to afford the latest and greatest most wonderful thing in the world before our neighbor gets one.

The family of the shooter didn't look up from their conspicuous consumption long enough to see that the boy was troubled. Their neighbors were concerned with their own lives and the people who should be watching (teachers, ministers, etc.) only saw what they wanted to see.

"Where was God?" the article asks. Perhaps he was sending a sick child off to kill others to wake us from our self-induced, myopic, pessimistic, selfish world view.

Or not, just saying.

BrazosP - why does it have to be love of God? Why can't it just be love from humans? Is God the only one capable of love?

Where was God when 6 million Jews were slaughtered? Oh, that's right, He was in on it because of something their ancestors did 2000 years ago. Funny how He stalled 2000 years on that but couldn't wait even 50 years for 6 year olds to die because prayer was taken out of schools. I guess He doesn't believe in the separation of church and state. Oh wait, this is the god that allowed thousands of first-born infants to die to send a message to one dude. So, I guess these psychopathic tendencies are not inconsistent with His character.

Mike Huckabee is a f___ing idiot.

Some people believe in God. Some people don't believe in God. It's not news. In politics emotions are such easy prey.

The best thing humans could do, is put down their Bibles and start thinking for themselves.

We are not children and God is not our parent, constantly watching over us to make sure we do the right thing.

Yes I believe in some sort of supreme being, but we are here to learn and grow (spiritually), and we'll keep coming back here until we finally do learn.

If we're really concerned about what is causing this sort of thing, we need to take a good hard look at our society. The movies and TV shows and video "games" that glorify killing. Our children are becoming numb to the idea of taking a life when they sit down at their WII and start shooting other humans in some sort of "War" video game.

Movies show "super heroes" wiping out entire batalions with automatic weapons. Video games allow children to pretend to operate these same automatic weapons. Is this really entertainment? Is this really the best we can offer our kids?

Thru these sorts of "entertainment" vehicles we are promoting the violence that humans have a proclivity for. We are not a peaceful species...we have been warring with each other for centuries.

We NEED TO TAKE A GOOD HARD LOOK AT OURSELVES AND OUR BEHAVIOR.

Change starts at home people...prohibit your kids from watching all this violence. We have to start somewhere.

a lot of sadness and anger in these post. a lot of hatred pure and simple. name calling. arrogance. everyone has a God given choice to make. what you believe is yours to believe. funny how if an opinion differs the name calling starts. our country is broken and divided. we all have a choice. choose wisely.

Huckabee is right. This country is going downhill and it all started when athesist were allowed to take God out of schools and pretty much now in everything we do. The handful that do not believe in God is nothing compared to those that do and it is our fault for not standing up for our rights and letting them take it away. No one will ever tell me I can't pray somewhere or say the name God. It is my right to do so and if some nonbeliever doesn't like it-then keep on moving. You are offended by me just as I am offended by nonbelievers, but you will not stop me from my beliefs and my freedom of religion. This country was a much better place when people had God in their lives. Communism does nothing but cause desensitized people. Everything happens for a reason and if more people had God in their lives and actually knew God, these things wouldn't be happening. All of what is happening now was predicted in the Bible from all those years ago. Maybe it's time people start reading it. This nation needs prayers and lots of it. Those of you who want to laugh and make fun of God, go ahead...in the end you will see and you will be sorry you did.

Huckabee - stop calling my home 5 times a week with your anti Obama-care rant, you got the wrong person, I can't get health insurance.

God is at my house every Friday playing poker - he is a pain in the ass, but he can turn water into booze and created weed, so we let him stay.

God gives us free will. We are not His robots. Free will results in drunk drivers, Adolph Hitler, and this nut job. What I think Huckabee was trying to say is that this is a moral issue. In the 1950s and 1960s guns were available, schools were wide open and no one went in and shot up a school full of little kids.

As a nation, we have removed moral values from society,schools, tv, radio, etc. Removal of God from all aspects of society is a part of it. Violent movies, video games, violent tv shows, hateful music , etc. etc.

God is not punishing us. We are punishing ourselves by removing God from our lives.

Get real people..you can believe in whatever you want. But the fact is (proven by science) there is no God same as there is no Devil..no heaven no hell...no real Santa or tooth fairy.

The ACLU kicked him out years ago's ....and now you want to know where he was?

Sounds like, huckleberry and his ilks is pimping Mr. gawd like a prostitute. What else is new.

we are a very fractured society largely because we have allowed hedonism(love of self) to reign over transcendent truths.......how many gun shootings at schools happened before the 1979 san diego incident? the UNDENIABLE fact is that when God and prayer was dismissed from our places of learning in the early 60's the VOID that was left was filled with immoral license that was passed off as individual liberty......its only been getting worse since 1979 and will continue to do so...... many people do not value LIFE and it started with undervalueing babies in the womb.......our country is reaping what it has sown pure and simple.......

If God is almighty he can prevent or allow anything, bad or good; if he is not, than there is no God and we have to protect ourselves from evil people.

DrowningGrover: I think jeff sutter is referring to this NBC article from a few days ago: "Villager slashes 22 kids with knife at elementary school gates in China". I don't know about the numbers he gave but there is a list of recent school attacks given, using knives, axes, hammers, etc. I read that article the other day and the flavor of it was like they were trying to say : "SEE! It happens in China too! Look Ma, no guns!" LOL. Also, don't put too much stock in Wikipedia as the final word to anything. Anyone at anytime can add to it if they know how. Occasionally, dolphins do have wings (citation needed).

Yeah, I believe he may have been referring that this recent incident as well. Problem for him, is that NONE of the 22 kids died...

I find it sad that so many people on here mock those that believe in God. You see phrases like "You believe in mythical fairytales," or "You aren't smart enough or don't have enough cognitive thinking skills to understand reality." I am not going to try and argue about whether God is real. Ultimately, one's view on that question is dependent on one's subjective view of the empirical data around them that one chooses to accept. Some will look to science to try and prove the God does not exist; however, they will ignore or try to explain away all data that suggests there may be some higher power or "God" in the universe. I also admit there are those who look only at scripture but choose to ignore the science. Both views are close-minded. You hate each other (spending so much time arguing with each other about what moral code should be propagated in society), yet you are so much alike. I have never understood the argument that science disproves religion or vice versa. When did either become the exclusive explanation of reality? Why can' they work hand-in-hand.

I personally believe in God, because I have felt his influence in my life. I have experienced things that I can't explain to someone that chooses not to have God in their life. It would be like trying to explain the existence of wind to someone that has never experienced it. I can't see the wind, but I know it's there. Heck, I can show you the effects of wind. I can show you that the wind moves through the trees.
It blows dust into the air. I can feel it on my skin as it rushes by. I can show you evidence of its existence, but I can't see the wind. To someone who has never experienced wind, they may say, "well then it doesn't exist." Or maybe they can just simply accept that some things that aren't seen can be very real, or are at least open to the idea that things that can't be seen are very real. Either way don't call someone studpid because you are too close-minded to understand.

I also think statements such as these are interesting: "A real "God" would not let innocent children be slaughtered unless he was a pretty sick god." God gave man his agency. I believe the purpose of life,
in part, is to learn to use agency in the correct way. We see all the time how people choose to use
their agency to harm others. God does not take away agency. I mean, how do you feel when government takes away your agency? Do you honestly believe you would feel any different if God did it? Instead, I believe he provided a son who offered an atonement. That atonement makes it possible for all things to one day be made right. It doesn’t mean it is right today. Just because PEOPLE choose to do bad things,
doesn’t mean there isn’t a God, or that he doesn’t love us. There are a number of people that disagree
with this. That’s fine, I respect your right to believe what you will. May all be blessed during this Christmas season, and God bless the families of the victims in New Town.

And where was God?

Who says there is one?

Shipwrecked..I posted this earlier and I think it is for you as well as Kevin.

kevin C-752389

People like you just amaze me. You claim God doesn't exist because he doesn't run around with a magic wand solving every problem. If that was the way it worked Adam and Eve would still be in the Garden but since Eve decided to eat that apple God decided to give us BRAINS (to bad so many don't use theirs) to direct our own lives either good or bad. All he promises us is heaven if we follow the 10 commandents and when none of us could live up to that he gave us his son as a way to him. Now I won't try to make you a believer but please don't belittle any of us that do want to believe. We will all know some day but then it might be too late for you to change but if you are right then I have still lost nothing in having my faith to comfort me during my life time. So I will leave you alone if you promise to do the same. THANK YOU!!!!

I have had just about enough of these mentally ill believers of an omnipotent super spirit who force their illness into public.

God is busy not existing.

Be better people without the threat of hell.

@Gary 420

As a nation, we have removed moral values from society,schools, tv, radio, etc. Removal of God from all aspects of society is a part of it. Violent movies, video games, violent tv shows, hateful music , etc. etc.

God is not punishing us. We are punishing ourselves by removing God from our lives.

I do not agree with you, but I am giving you kudos for presenting the most coherent religious argument I have read so far.

What has happened to the republican party? Huckabee was taken as a serious presidential candidate, now he blames a horrible shooting tragedy on gays and abortion? Their 2008 vice-presidential candidate, Sarah Palin, is now basically a reality tv show, on the level of Donald Trump. Their list of primary candidates in the last campaign is a who's who of partisan religious extremists and tv personalities - as Jon Huntsman said 'the bar is pretty low' for being considered to the highest office in the land.

Do we need another party entirely, one which will take the lives of Americans and the state of the world's most powerful government seriously?

This has nothing to do with prayer in schools and everything to do with insufficient mental health care available for families like this with a mentally unstable son. I find it very hard to believe that if this young man had gone to a religious school, that it would have kept him from doing something like this, because religion does nothing to help the mentally unstable. It actually might have made it worse. I went to a catholic school from 1st to 8th grade and I can tell you there were some really good kids and there with some really bad kids, who ended up doing some really bad things.

An earlier commenter suggested teaching right from wrong and the value of life, etc. I'd be OK with that (although I don't believe it would have helped in this case), but I would not be OK with a public school teaching religion. What religion do they choose? Of course christians believe it should be theirs, but that is not right or fair. Christian families should be teaching religion at home and in their churches. And anyone is free to place their child in a religious school.

You want your kids to pray in school then send them to a religious school or teach your own children about your god and leave my children alone. We teach them about god, the bible and religions ourselves. We don't fob it off on the school systems. You will not force my child to believe what you believe. You will not require it in the classroom.

Schools are there to teach our children to read, write and do math. To teach them about geography and history. To engage their curiousity about the sciences. They are not there to indoctrinate our children to one mindset.

God gives us free will. We are not His robots. Free will results in drunk drivers, Adolph Hitler, and this nut job. What I think Huckabee was trying to say is that this is a moral issue. In the 1950s and 1960s guns were available, schools were wide open and no one went in and shot up a school full of little kids.

There have been school shootings for about as long as there have been commonly available guns (1700's). Just not all the shooters have been armed with assault rifles. Where was God to protect them then?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school-related_attacks

How about school shootings in countries that don't believe in the same God you do? That's right, not nearly as common. I guess God only gets pissed when you take prayer out of schools if you proclaim yourself a Christian nation.

For the record the US has never and will never take God out of schools, this is impossible as god is in our hearts. What the Government has done (correctly I might add) is take religion out of schools or more importantly one religion over another.

God made faith...man made religion

If we could all just remember that simple truth then the world would be a better placce and little children's deaths would not be used as political one upsmanship. This tragedy had nothing to do with religion or god, it was one mentally ill human being taking the lives of innocents for reasons known only to him, we can never understand what drove him to do this. Can we all stop trying to find somebody to blame, that person is dead.

Gary wrote:

God gives us free will. We are not His robots.

And yet, when we exercise that free will he punishes us. Take the Adam & Eve myth - God sets up conditions guaranteed to make Adam & Eve fail, and when the obvious predictable outcome arises, he not only punishes them but all of mankind (Original Sin). Methinks God is highly neurotic - no doubt a consequence of being omnipotent.

We have not removed god from our schools because god was never there in the first place. God did not abandon anyone because he never existed in the first place.

God was there all along. It is not within our or Mike Huckabee's power to remove him. Trying to understand the reasons he allows things like this to happen is like trying to understand the infinite that is God's mind. We can never apply our finite understanding and logic to figure out why.

In the big scheme of things that is the universe (or the bigger thing yet that we still can't comprehend) this will turn out to be a small event, as utterly tragic as it is in human terms.

This may have been necessary to somehow pull society back from the brink of infinite violence, or to strengthen gun laws that prevent the death of some other child future world leader who is yet to be born that changes things in ways we can not conceive. It may have been to raise the level of the gun control debate to where it has never been, to educate society as to why we have the right to own guns and the importance of mental health to this topic and how society must change to find the place where we are all safer. There are a million things (most of which we can not even imagine) that could be the reason.

Don't strain yourself. Comfort those who have lost, remember those that you knew, grieve as you must and live a life worthy of their memory.

What I don't understand is why so many 'good American Christians' support the wars we have been waging half way across the globe, which caused death of thousands of little children. Why blame God for an act of a madman if people who supposedly believe in universal goodness, love, and compassion support so much killing? Were American Christians asking 'where was God?' when tens of thousands innocent Iraqi civilians were killed during the 'Shock and Awe'? Maybe this was the question pondered by the Iraqi survivors of American violence.

In short - don't blame God when it is people who do the killing. It is illogical even when you assume he does exist.

Hey! Those of you who are anti-God, derogetory and naysayers - do you know the tenets of God? -- in this instance, "Thou shalt not kill." Considering the horrific tradegy that just occured at Sandy Hook, how can this tenet be wrong? -- how can, "Thou shalt not steal, covet, etc," be wrong in any way? You attribute these as sayings to man? -- ok -- so we proceed. As Huckabee said the "Tenets" are no longer allowed in schools - are attributed to religion - and therefore not constitutional.

Well, golly, and gee whiz, -- if these tenets were attributed to social laws, instead of religious laws, pehaps the "outrageous tenets" would be accepted and taught in schools. Schools that teach our children 6 to 8 hours a day, 5 days a week.

Who knows how far the influence of observing, "basic, religious, aka societal laws, goes in influencing individuals such as Lanza, mentally ill or otherwise -- and what's wrong with teaching the same in schools?

Mentally ill people desperately need a base of acceptance. They are different than most of us, are treated thusly, overtly or convertly, and know they're "different." -- it doesn't take a leap of imagination to know that a resentment would develop - as well as self preservation tactic of detachment.

What if we taught religion in schools, that each of us are taught that we are greater than the sum of our parts, that we are loved unendingly, something that is so very important to the human soul.

What then -- what then. You naysayers of religion -- what then?

This may have been necessary to somehow pull society back from the brink of infinite violence, or to strengthen gun laws that prevent the death of some other child future world leader who is yet to be born that changes things in ways we can not conceive. It may have been to raise the level of the gun control debate to where it has never been, to educate society as to why we have the right to own guns and the importance of mental health to this topic and how society must change to find the place where we are all safer. There are a million things (most of which we can not even imagine) that could be the reason.

Why do people insist that everything happens for a reason? Does all that silver lining help you sleep better at night? The REASON this happened is a disturbed young man with motives we can't even imagine (unless they recover that hard drive) got a hold of an assault rifle, and DECIDED in his own sickness that his final act should be to shoot up a bunch of kids. There is NO other reason!

The things you listed may be possible RESULTS of this incident, but they are not the REASON.

Wake up America! You think you are fighting "terrorism" over there somewhere--------> and what do you discover but, wait, WE ARE THE TERRORISTS! I see the enemy and the enemy is us.

There are no terrorists, but us. We can't go to our schools, the mall, churches or movies without running into an American terrrorist it seems. We do have a war and the war is over HERE, in America.

Do you honestly think America can make war on other countries year after year and kill their innocent children and some how come out unscathed? Ever heard of KARMA?

And for you bible readers, another translation to help you better comprehend KARMA is this line:

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

Or another one you probably like, "An eye for an eye."

All this talk of God. Pffffft! Do you think God weeps for our children more than a murdered Iraqi child?

God gives us free will and this is where it has brought us. Don't blame God or the lack of God. Blame yourselves.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=461195423948437&set=a.217603604974288.57691.217514361649879&type=1&theater

Gumps, that's because the idea of original sin is a falacy in my opinion. Adam and Eve trangressed God's law, they did not sin. There is a difference. Adam and Eve were in a paradisical state in the Garden of Eden. They could not die. They did not even know right from wrong or good from eveil. God gave them competing instructions. Multiply and replenish the earth and don't eat from the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil. When they ate from the fruit, they did not know it was wrong. God knew it would happen. It was a transgression of God's law. Being sent out of the Garden of Edan wasn't a punishment. It gave Adam and Eve the same opportunity to live life that we have. It gave them the ability to use their agency. I know you don't believe in God, so you can take this for what it's worth, but being sent out of the Garden of Eden was one of the best things that happened for mankind. We can argue all day about whether those events happened, but it won't mean anything. I choose to believe they happened in some form or fashion. You choose not to. More power to you.

Hey! Those of you who are anti-God, derogetory and naysayers - do you know the tenets of God? -- in this instance, "Thou shalt not kill."

I'm pretty sure killing other people being frowned upon pre-dates Moses. Do you realize insane people have killed because "God told them to"? You need God to tell you not to kill people? Yikes!

If you accept that evolution is real, surely you would realize that killing your own species indiscriminately would be detrimental to its survival? So it's not gonna be the norm and never will be to anybody but psychopaths.

My dogs don't kill each other either, and I'm pretty sure they haven't read the Bible. Also there's about a billion "Godless" Chinese that might take issue with your theory about Biblical tenets keeping them from tearing each other apart.

What I don't get is how people can deny God exists and then blame him in the next breath as their reasoning, can't have it both ways. We demanded God get out of our schools, isn't this what we asked for? It isn't a punishment, this is just what separation from God looks like. Atheism is on the rise and so are mass shootings. I don't know what the answer is but whatever keeps our kids safe, I am 100% for it!!!

but he can turn water into booze and created weed, so we let him stay

Hey J.P., what are you drinking these days? I only have the occasional bottle of Irish Creme that I sip on when I think about it. Don't have one now. And the last beer I had was almost three years ago...I still have five dark beers left in the fridge from then!

--------------------

As far as all this "god" talk...I find it confusing to choose which god to follow. The Christian god? Hindu? Buddhist? Jewish? Even Muslim? Who's to say which is the "right" one? Hindus, Buddists, etc. all believe as strongly as Christians that their god is the true one. At least the Hindus nor Buddhists don't have people knocking at your door, wearing suits and riding bicycles, trying to convince you they are right. What about the Westboro Baptist Church? They claim to be Christians, but express it by protesting at funerals (they were lucky they weren't drawn and quartered protesting at Ronnie James Dio's funeral, because many people -- myself amongst them -- thought only of Dio as a great singer) and persecuting anyone who doesn't believe as they do. Maybe there is a higher power...but don't tell me what to believe in.

When all is said and done, in a backhanded sort of way Adam Lanza might have a positive effect on us as a nation. Maybe we'll finally be moved to have a permanent ban on assault weapons and clips that hold 100 bullets. If we don't, I guarantee something like Sandy Hook will happen again. Without guns these things would be difficult to re-create. Look at the guy in China who went on a rampage in a school armed with only a knife:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

He didn't kill anyone. He wounded 22 students, but killed no one. So if Adam Lanza had access to only a knife, do you really think that 20 first graders and six adults would have died at Sandy Hook last Friday? He took the easy way out by using a handgun to kill himself...do you think he would have had the courage to do the same thing with a knife? Doubtful...when the cops got there they could have stopped whatever bleeding his knife caused him, taken him into custody, where he would spend the rest of his miserable life as the most hated person in the country.

Tell the NRA to go @#$% themselves and institute a permanent ban on assault weapons and massive clips. Those belong only in the hands of the military. And make the penalties for violating that ban be severe, so as to deter any of those gun nuts from owning a Bushmaster, or AR-15, or AK-47. Those aren't hunting guns anyway...

"Tired of Entitlement" - ""What then -- what then. You naysayers of religion -- what then?""

calm down, you are just flailing now.

you said - ""What if we taught religion in schools, that each of us are taught that we are greater than the sum of our parts, that we are loved unendingly, something that is so very important to the human soul.""

interesting question. perhaps if we omitted the "What if we taught religion in schools" part of that, and all the insane baggage that comes with it.

and we just left the good part -

""each of us are taught that we are greater than the sum of our parts, that we are loved unendingly, something that is so very important to the human soul.""

hmm, when the pure bull**** is extracted, the basic concept of love, sounds pretty good.

"Tired of Entitlement"- here is the problem with teaching the religious part, that you would like to include. the PROBLEM, is that they might grow up and turn into FANATICAL a-holes like Mike Huckabee.

he is one SICK piece of work.

so.... THANKS. but No.

Hell NO !

Atheism is on the rise and so are mass shootings

Tell that to the Chinese.

Did they not teach you in school that correlation does NOT imply causation? And this is easily provable? Or was that in the science class you slept through because God has all the answers?

Hey, Brit the pit, Haven't you heard of Timothy McVeigh? He used fertilizer and Diesel fuel in a rental truck to kill 19 children and several adults and destroy a building in Oklahoma. Oh, we forgot.

If you're wondering why God was not there. Most parents let a few vote him out of school and public buildings. You want someone or something to blame. Look in the mirror. And, yes, I do it every morning.

"CALIFGINA" "Robert"- ???

You speak as if "God" was a really great babysitter, that we fired. and now there is no one to take care of the kids?

ok ?..... all-righty then... if "God" IS protecting the children... DO YOU THINK HE GIVES A CRAP what the current laws are?

That would be moronic... don't you think ?

I think that if this "God" has any character at all.... he is still doing what he can for children, and ignoring the rest. he has the power to do that... Right ?

I personally, am NOT stuck in the DARK AGES... and I'm not buying any fresh bull****, I have had about enough for a Lifetime... and Huckabee is a lowlife, for taking advantage of this situation.

and Huckabee is a Christian ???

uh yeah... that's just the Ticket.

YEAH ! be like Huckabee !..... if you listen to this power hungry man..... you must be complete IDIOTS.

I am not a religious person. As far as I am concerned, no religion has got it right! God lives within all if us. He is the compassion we feel for the people of Conn. He is the concern we have, for those who have no food, no shelter,no sanctuary and no hope. He is charity and giving. God lives if we listen to our hearts and not the media, religious zealots, or those who proclaim to know Him better than we do ourselves. God was with the little ones and their teachers. He embraced them and brought them home. It is always easy to blame God but in reality, we are God. It is up to us, to promote peace and harmony.

Mike Huckabee uses religion for profit. Most Christians acts are preformed outside of the walls of churches. Like the teachers who gave their lives, trying to save the children. God has not left us, He continues to talk to us. Most of us have decided to ignore our inner voice, in order to belong to religion. I wish you all well. When I was taking religion classes, a priest told me, the ultimate gift of love, is to wish another well. Be it your friend or foe. Again, I wish you well.

RI Mom

God Helps Those Who Hel Themselves.

I hope you realize that that is not in the Bible.

Compare yours to what is in the Bible "Not might, not by power, but by my spirit says the Lord."

Here is something else in the Bible related to why these things happen.

"The rain must fall on the just and unjust."

Why? If God just gave things because you are just, then everyone would follow him to get rewards.

God want's you to recognize him for who he is, not for what you can get from him.

Why? If God just gave things because you are just, then everyone would follow him to get rewards.

So, atheists that follow his commandments, which are pretty much a reflection of common sense, are extra-special?

What if we taught religion in schools, that each of us are taught that we are greater than the sum of our parts, that we are loved unendingly, something that is so very important to the human soul.

Uh, what religion would you have taught? There are over 310 various religions and denominations - just in the U.S:

http://undergod.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=000068

Kurt 2.74

When they ate from the fruit, they did not know it was wrong. God knew it would happen.

I think there is a flaw in your thinking here. Adam clearly knew that God told him not to eat of the tree. God clearly told Adam that if he ate of it he would surely die in that day (1000 years). Eve was told by Adam because the tree had been planted before she was formed from Adam's Rib.

The Serpent told her that it would make her smarter, like God. Eve only replied to the serpent that God told them not to eat of the tree or she would die. The serpent picked up on the lack of understanding that death would be over time and not imminent.

Funny thing, the serpent did not tell them to go eat of the tree of life. If they did, then they would have lived forever with the full understanding of good and evil. Satan wasn't interested in any competition, just destroy what God created using any means necessary.

They threw God of the bus a long time ago. That is what is wrong with society. Now they will blame it on something else.

The cause is not guns, clip sizes, God or no God, different religions vs others, violent TV, movies, or video games, single parenthood, etc., etc.

The cause is the Drug War. I can prove this, and will below (toward the bottom I point out there is no correlation to most of the things people intuitively try to blame for gun murder rates, after I attack the gun tred herring):

A Mathematical Approach to What Causes Gun Murder in America

Mass murder shootings happen 20 times a year in the USA on average...but that is less than 2% of all gun murders. It isn't the big threat in terms of annual gun murders. It is also one of the least preventable causes (because crazy people use cars, knives, rope, fire, fists, bombs, etc., to murder people). So what are the causes of the vast majority of gun murders (which would matter to those interested in actually reducing gun murder)?

Some wish to have gun control and gun bans in the wake of our last few mass shooting tragedies.

At what cost? Childproof society because a SMALL number (per capita) abuse the right? There are 200,000,000 guns in the USA, and 40-60 million people own those guns. Until this last year, which the FBI will have no official stats for until 2 years from now BTW, the crime rates, including violent crime and gun crime, had been falling for 30-50 years (moreso in the last 30). And this year there was only a slight uptick (several years into a recession no less, where people turn to drug "crime" for supplemental income). The population growth and guns in circulation, not to mention legal permits to carry guns, over that 30 years has far outpaced the gun murder growth. So even though the total gun murders probably went up this year, we still have a declining rate overall in the last 3 decades. I'll overestimate and say we had 13,000 gun murders, and do a little math for you.

Let's say the 40-60 million gun owners are 50 million owners...right in the middle (the average estimate).

200 million guns / 50 million = 4 guns per owner on average.

200 million guns / 13,000 gun murders = 15,384.62 guns per murder (that's a lot of guns not killing people)

Percentage chance a gun in the USA will murder = .0065% (or 6.5 in every 1000 guns...that's 993.5 guns in every 1000 guns not murdering people)

50 million gun owners / 13,000 gun murders = 3,846.15 gun owners not murdering for every 1 gun murder (that's a lot of gun owners not murdering anyone)

Percentage chance a gun owner will murder with a gun = .026% (or 26 in every 1,000...that's 974 gun owners in every 1,000 not murdering anyone)

315,000,000 American people / 13,000 gun murders = 24,230.77 Americans per 1 gun murder victim

Percentage chance you as an American will be murdered by a gun = .0041% (that's 4.1 in every 1,000...or a tiny threat for the mathematically challenged. You have a better chance at dying of the flu - 33,000 flu deaths per year in the USA)

Permits to carry guns and total guns in circulation in the USA has never been higher (which is not the same as ownership rate, which is actually down)...and yet the threat is very, very low. Still think all those other people should give up their rights for a threat less than the flu? Please recall that almost 70% of gun murders are commited by criminals, not law abiding citizens. No gun ban or gun control logically affects them, as they already don't abide laws, and we aren't on an island where getting guns is hard when they are banned (it's easier in say England or Australia, because of geography, to ban guns).

Now let's compare to the Holy Grail of gun control advocates (Canada and England) who value freedom so low as to want "to purchase temporary safety at the expense of liberty", as Ben Franklin put it (he said you will "deserve neither" when you do that, and I'll add "you'll get neither"). BTW, I'd point out Canada didn't outlaw guns at all in reality :

Canada's population 35.5 million / 126 gun murders = 281,746 citizens per gun murder

Percentage chance of being murdered by a gun as a Canadian = .0004% (4 in every 10,000)

Gun owners in Canada is 10.934 million / 126 gun murders = 86,777.78 gun owners per gun murder

Percentage chance a gun owner in Canada murders you with a gun = .0012% (1.2 in every 1,000)

Now let's look at England's gun ban paradise:

England's population 53 million / 39 gun murders = 1,358,974 citizens per gun murder

Percentage chance of being murdered by a gun in England = .0001% (or 1 in 10,000)

Gun owners in England 1.8 million / 39 gun murders = 46,153.85 gun owners per 1 murder by gun

Percentage chance a English gun owner murders you with a gun = .0022% (2.2 in every 1,000)

I'd point out gun CRIMES (not just murders) in England have soared upward 35% since the gun bans. Criminals used handguns in 46% more crimes, and it was the fourth consecutive year to see a rise...there were more than 2,200 more gun crimes last year, the most since the previous peak in 1993.

Stats show the number of crimes involving handguns have more than doubled since the post-Dunblane massacre, which brought about the ban on the weapons, from 2,636 in 1997-1998 to 5,871.

Quote:Unadjusted figures showed overall recorded crime in the 12 months to last September rose 9.3%, but the Home Office stressed that new procedures had skewed the figures.

Shadow home secretary Oliver Letwin said: "These figures are truly terrible.

"Despite the street crime initiative, robbery is massively up. So are gun-related crimes, domestic burglary, retail burglary, and drug offenses.

"The only word for this is failure: the Government's response of knee-jerk reactions, gimmicks and initiatives is not working and confused signals on sentences for burglary will not help either."

So England's gun bans may have lowered total murders, and even the rate of murders, but the violent crime rates are soaring. Guns are a game theory mathematical deterent to crime, especially violent crime, believe it or not.

So what can we get from all these stats?

Population matters, as does other factors besides guns themselves:

The whole story is told in the percentage chance a gun owner will murder with a gun - USA is .026%, Canada is .0012%, and England's is .0022%.

As you can see, Canada has a higher rate of ownership of guns and more total guns than England, and yet has a LOWER gun owner murder rate than England! That means it isn't guns that are the factor making England murder more. So why is Canada so low, while England is nearly double that? Why is the USA more than 10 times higher than England? All of this is adjusted for population and total guns in society...so what is the factor making us so much more prone to murder (even if it is a tiny threat overall to life) here in the USA?

THE DRUG WAR.

In England they have a drug war, but they do not focus on possession. Meanwhile we lock up nonviolent criminals at the almost the exact same rate as violent ones in America. Canada has legal marijuana in some areas, and has for years, and takes a very relaxed attitude toward drug use in general (although they have laws which are largely unenforced).

Just like during the Prohibition of alcohol, murder rates have soared under the Drug War. So has our incarcerations and incarceration rates...we now lock up more people in total than any other country in the world (yes, even the vastly more populated China and India)! That's total and per capita! "Land of the Free"? Think again. "Land of the prisoner" is more accurate. We arrested more than 750,000 people last year for just marijuana! 86% of those arrests were for small amounts; simple possession charges. It's not only tyrannical, it's a waste of resources which fuels a black market run by criminal sociopaths, and takes resources away from fighting actual violent crime like theft, property damage, assault, rape, child abuse, and murder.

This War on Drugs (and personal adult freedom) has given us the street gang phenomenon on the scales we see today. Chicago alone has dozens of separate drug gangs. They also have a high murder rate to go along with super-strict gun control in comparison to other cities...because guns aren't the problem, the Drug War is. Many of their gangs can trace their roots to either the beginning of Prohibition, or the beginning of the modern Drug War.

In Honduras where gun murders are most common and horribly frequent, they have gun rights...but they also have a country which is a main thoroughfaire for the illegal drug trade. By comparison, Uruguay has almost the same gun ownership rates as the USA and the same gun rights as well, yet they have a lower gun murder rate because they have no war on drugs. In fact, their govt is seriously considering selling marijuana to its citizens to get the drug trade completely above-board!

If you want our rate of murder to decrease via guns you don't take away guns, you end the Drug War. If you have any doubts about this go look at the murder rates after alcohol Prohibition began, and then after it ended. Also look at countries that have already ended their Drug Wars.

Crime rates in Prohibition rose immediately 78%, 24% in just one year from 1920-1921 (the first year)

http://library.thinkquest.org/04oct/0049...e_Rate.htm

The murder rate was cut in nearly half (40% decline), from 10 per 100,000 to 6 per 100,000 when Prohibition ended. This was directly caused by the repeal of Prohibition in 1933.

http://www.cato.org/publications/policy-...as-failure

If we want to half our gun murders, legalize drugs. If you want to further bring it down address the next major cause; domestic violence. Spanking children leads to many issues surrounding violence, but especially domestic violence. If domestic violence is how you raise children, then expect them to use it themselves as adults. A small number of those people will kill a domestic relative or partner. The gun simply facilitates it.

The final point I'll make is that if only .026% of gun owners murder someone with a gun, then 99.974% of gun owners don't kill someone with a gun. It's hard to argue we need to punish the 99.974% for what the .026% do. That kind of illogic is used in schools to punish classrooms full of kids for what one anonymous child has done...and it leads to bullying, because children then ostracize their peers who are guilty (and they don't know how to ostracize responsibly, so it ends up in bullying). We should use a more logical approach on adults. In a nation of 315 million people, with a Drug War raging and domestic violence against kids being the norm, a 99.974% responsible gun owner rate is unbelievably good. Perspective, instead of irrational fear and knee-jerk reaction, is what helps here.

ADDED:

Someone said they thought we could half gun murder by ending the drug war, but the we'd double the drunk/drugged driving deaths...but that is illogical. No one has any problem getting drugs now, and they already drive on them now. Also, when drugs were legalized across the board in other nations the usage only went up slightly, and in some nations actually decreased. Plus, when we re-legalized alcohol the usage here only went up slightly, while alcoholism went down (especially among minors), and the murder rate fell in that first year (1933) 40%. THINK through why your criticisms might not be logical...and Bing or Google them to see people have already answered these illogical and/or irrational reservations.

Lastly, someone else said they would never change their mind about being anti-gun no matter the evidence...but again, that is irrational. There are irrational people who won't fly even though they ADMIT cars are more likely to kill them. They drive but won't fly...that is irrational. Guns are less likely to kill a kid than swimming pools. How afraid are you of swimming pools? Cars kill more people than guns...how afraid are you of cars? Gun murder is almost 3 times less likely to kill you than the normal flu virus...how afraid are you of guns vs the flu? Being rational means fearing things based on thr actual RATIONAL chance they have to kill you, not the IRRATIONAL fear of HOW it might kill you. Guns are not nearly as dangerous as the media and most anti-gun people think they are.

In fact, more lives are saved in the USA every year than are taken by guns every year. They are in reality, indisputably, a NET GAIN of life. If only 2% of the 750,000 crimes prevented by private guns (FBI stat) save one life (or 1% saves 2 lives, etc.), then more lives are saved than taken. BTW...sutdies show many more than that are saved by guns...the estimate by Clinton Administration study was 2 million lives per year...which might be high...and other more intensive studies show the number to be in the tens of thousands, up to 200,000, per year. But EVEN IF the number was only 15,000 as I suggested with my 2% number, we're still looking at more lives saved than murdered.

FURTHER ADDED:

A study done by the Harvard Jounal of Law and Public Policy reports some interesting statistics.

The study, which appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:

Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population).

For example, Norway has the highest rate of gun ownership in Western Europe, yet possesses the lowest murder rate. In contrast, Holland's murder rate is nearly the worst, despite having the lowest gun ownership rate in Western Europe. Sweden and Denmark are two more examples of nations with high murder rates but few guns. As the study's authors write in the report:

If the mantra "more guns equal more death and fewer guns equal less death" were true, broad cross-national comparisons should show that nations with higher gun ownership per capita consistently have more death. Nations with higher gun ownership rates, however, do not have higher murder or suicide rates than those with lower gun ownership. Indeed many high gun ownership nations have much lower murder rates. (p. 661)

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs...online.pdf

STILL FURTHER ADDED:

It appears there is also NO correlation between single parenthood, violent video games, movies, TV shows, music, one religion or another (or lack thereof), etc.

Like guns, those are just NOT causal to high gun murder rates, despite the illogic used to say they are. (To be clear, it is intuitive to think guns and these other things cause the problem...but there is NO factual basis for it, and the factual nature of things is often deductively logical, and counter-intuitive.)

ADDED:

Paul Harvey on Guns

Are you considering backing gun control laws? Do you think that because you may not own a gun, the rights guaranteed by the Second Amendment don't matter?

Consider:

In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915-1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated. That places total victims who lost their lives because of gun control at approximately 56 million in the last century. Since we should learn from the mistakes of history, the next time someone talks in favor of gun control, find out which group of citizens they wish to have exterminated.

Me: And That's The Rest of the Story!

They threw God of the bus a long time ago. That is what is wrong with society. Now they will blame it on something else.

So, blame it on God for creating mentally defective psychopaths? Ok no problem.

So the article depicts so many people shaking their collective (metaphoric) fists at God.

I'm reminded of the Gnostic heresy "How can a good God allow Evil to prevail in this world?"

Presumably, God, or the ideal of God, is easy to blame for tragedy. I've noticed hundreds of comments all seeking someone, or some thing, to blame, and the translation I quote pretty well sums it up.

It's false, of course. Whether representing a simple need to blame an external power for the Newton devastation ("blame" being the art of transferring culpability to someone, anyone, anything else from ones own self); or whether putting in motion the primary buck-passing to the most high idealism felt by the most enormous numbers of people.

Far better to check ourselves for what we can avoid within our own thoughts, action, or behavior.

The quotation I prefer has been attributed to Edward Burke:

"All that is needed to allow Evil to prevail in this world, if for good men to do nothing."

So quite blaming others, folks, including God. Reread Genesis... who chose to taste of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil? The answer? Humanity. Not God. Not other humans. Oneself.

What decent goodness can each of us provide in our fight against Evil? Because a war it is. I think that unless we do this against what is within ourselves, we are also begging for retaliation. Blaming others is nonsense and not productive. Even if we admit no sin within ourselves, what then can we do to help?

I think it starts by avoiding buck-passing. And only finishes if we take responsibility to be proactive by cleaning up our own laziness and tendency to blame others.

No offense to anyone, but we should all be aware that our "Democratic Republic" was created with the purpose to have intelligent representation in our government. We elect officials of intelligence and sound mind to represent us all.

Not working very well, I guess.

I'm kinda sick of every agnostic or self absorbed atheist wringing their hands in the are going "where was God?" For all you know God most likely tried to warn people to stay away from schools; where they listening to His voice? Why is it that only when a tragedy happens people ask where was God? I hate to say it, but you kicked His commandments out years ago. Perhaps if you had left them in, lives at Sandy hook could have been spared.

Thank you God that Mike Huckabee wasn't selected as a Presidential candidate and let people like him never become President of the United States.

Bad things do in fact happen to good people, even Church going people.

Huckabee needs to stop his distractions and lies he tells in "the name of God" and ask God for forgiveness that he misspoke. This kind of rhetoric is why we have so many crazy things happening in society today. I learned at Church that God is everywhere!!!! We have already had prior attacks on Chrurches, are you, Mike, asking for another crazy to prove you wrong and let it happen in the Lord's House? Do you think intelligently before speaking or is it always about "your" agenda?

Why is this not surprising for another GOP member and Fox spokesperson? When will the religious right stop their nonsense? And you wonder why President Obama won the elections!!! Simple....Mike...you just lost all the Newton family votes for the GOP's 2014 & 2016 elections.

I think that God was maybe lonely and wanted these kids to "come home", but wanted to be sure that they would have teachers to help them with,like,geography and stuff like that,...not that God doesn't know geography,cuz HE actually created it !! Also, He thought that he would "Try mans souls" to see who is loyal to Him, so He can smite the non-loyal disbelievers who criticse HIm.

You Must consider,too that there parents may has been liars and angered God,Yeshua.

@ItIsWhat!t!s

Sorry friend but what you're implying is what Mike Huckabee is saying, and adding to the absurdity of his reasoning. People in this country rely on our representatives to be secular and intelligent. I do understand your point because I was raised under a religious family.

What you're saying in your comment makes God as hateful and vengeful as any petty criminal in our society.

Atheists and agnostics do not ask where God is in moments of tragedy, religious ones, do.

Forest Roamer

Yes Jeff, you are right. Knives are as effective as guns. That's why no army in the world uses machine guns. I mean, why would they? Knives are just as good, right? Your stupidity is beyond belief.

Your missing his point entirely. Instead of getting it, you find some way to attack him with ad hominem . Great society we live in where people cant wait to lash out at others instead of trying to have respectable logical debate.

Point is, that any one can kill with anything. You cant stop it, people will kill. Whether it be with knives, hockey sticks, vehicles. Yes guns can kill more efficiently , im sure we all agree on that, but it still wont stop killings if you take guns out of the picture.

The Bible? A book written by man, full of sinful people. Remember Cain and Abel? The tower of Babylon? One only needs to follow common sense, show compassion and empathy. God is within you and me. You do not need a Bible to guide you through life. You do not need anyone to interpret the Bible. You need your heart, your head and your the ability to love and forgive. I wish you well.

Yes Judy a book written by the men who were inspired by God who were sinful and yet God loved them anyway. He loved them so much that He came to earth in the form of a man and died for those sins and then rose; a living savior, on the third day.

Thank God for those of us who read God's word and do use it as a guide for what is best in our lives.

Have a great life and remember God is there when you need Him. Not to interfere but to love.

liam-1161783 (comment #2.95)-- You are not being rational, and the last sentence you wrote is totally bogus. Are you just a troll looking to stir the pot?

Mothers and fathers need to heed God's word and stay married. Divorce will cause children to crash and burn."

"The family unit is falling apart. Children like Adam who come from divorces families tend to get lost. Boys need a dad to mentor them. Adams dad was distant. The most important thing a man can do for his children is to love their mother, and the most important thing a mother can do for her children is to respect their father. The family unit is the best envirnoment to raise a child, following God's word." Fathers for Good post.

Fathers for good...I have to explain how completely appalled I am by your post. I am an atheist, but was raised Catholic. My father was the one who pushed Catholicism on me and my siblings. So I've heard the teachings. I, now an adult, have chosen to believe certain things and to not believe others. I am also a child of divorce. My mom chose to raise 3 kids alone rather than with a man who chose to abuse drugs and alcohol. She did not come to this decision lightly. Multiple stints in rehab., several counseling sessions with priests, therapists, etc., and much prayer was attempted. Ultimately, my mom chose US!! Her children. She decided a "broken home"was better than breaking the family that she so loved. BEST decision she ever made!!!

I am a successful adult with a graduate degree, a happy family, money in the bank, and no...no "god" in my life. Believe it or not, I am happy, joyful, giving, and courteous. I volunteer, I work in medicine, I believe that generally, people are good. I speak with my mom as well as my extremely successful siblings daily. We are not broken, battered, lost, or less loved because of not having a man in our home. My mother gave us more love than most 2 parent households can give. So before you post things about the way a family "should" look, please re-evaluate your thinking and realize that love comes in all shapes and sizes and that family is a group of people that make you feel loved and important, not necessarily blood relatives.

God does not watch over our daily lives. If there is a God, and there is a Plan, it is certainly more important and biggger than what we collective humans can fathom.

When there is no absolutes in your life...... life does not matter...........

When there is no absolutes in your life...... life does not matter...........

My parents are absolutely my parents (even if I was, by chance, adopted). My decisions and choices are absolutely my decisions and choices. I choose to be moral. I do not need the threat of a God's wrath to make me moral.

America has been systematically Slaughtering GOD'S Children through Abortion for 40 Years,

YOUR God has also been busy in that department, Alan. Many more pregnancies end in miscarriage (an act of YOUR God?) than do in abortion.

No one is wondering why this happened. There was a gun man, he had a gun and was mentally not stable. He thought killing people was a good idea and he did it. Then he thought he should kill himself, so then he did.

So Alan-1380274, go ahead and connect the dots you think exist. It is what religious people do. We understand that empirical evidence has no place in your reality.

There are pages and pages of your bible that showcase your God's barbarity. There are pages and pages of history that showcase your religion's acts of barbarity as well.

Evil people (or mentally unstable) do evil things, good people do good things (regardless of religion), however, it takes religion to cause good people to do evil things for the sake of God.

Millions of babies die in the womb or in the first year throughout history. Even more so in the first century, when Jesus first came to us. In fact, a whole town of children had to die because Jesus was born and God was dumb enough to give the vision to the Magi of Jesus location (which is obviously fiction for everyone but Christians).

Steve: You'll have to allow me to disagree. From what I've seen in my 65 laps around the sun, there are no absolutes in life.

Hucksterbee's God must be pretty weak to be kicked out of schools and then let innocent children die as retribution...............WHAT is this man talking about??

Hey, Alan (3.3), pull your head out of your "bible" and get some air.

All this to-do about a God or no God. I find it so much easier going through life (I'm 82 years old now) believing that there was and is a God as I have been taught. A God who loves us all and who prepares a place for us after worldly death. If we live our life as he has instructed us he has promised that we will live in peace and happiness after that worldly death. If we stray from that path he has laid for us, but in the end we ask forgiveness we WILL be permitted to live in His heaven for eternity.

I believe my earthly life is easier for me if I believe in these promises. If they do not come to pass, what have I lost by following these paths. I have lost nothing of value here on earth and I have lived with love and peace while I was on this earth, always knowing (believing) in what I had to look forward to after death.

What does a non-believer have to look forward to after his time is up? NOTHING.. I pity him. He has lost very much. It was always there for him to take but he just ignored it. Too bad.

But, you know... I think God will still eventually take him into heaven If he asks for it. For our God is a forgiving God. And it costs absolutely nothing to be believer and if it is true that person has so very much to gain for his belief.

Why would anybody refuse to believe it there is so much to gain for eternity. And, if it is not true, what has one lost because he has believed?

'Nuff said. May God Bless each and every one of you, even if you don't believe in Him

@Ole-Ed

I believe my earthly life is easier for me if I believe in these promises. If they do not come to pass, what have I lost by following these paths. I have lost nothing of value here on earth and I have lived with love and peace while I was on this earth, always knowing (believing) in what I had to look forward to after death.

As you mentioned, you believe in god because that's what you have been taught - it's easier for you to believe in these promises even if they are false. It sounds like comfort is more important to you than finding the truth, and that's ok. But don't pity those like me who are not comforted by what you believe.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."

Interesting, progressives want to wipe God away from everywhere, but then when something bad happens, the first thing they as is, well, where was God? How come you don't ask that question when the good things happen?

pj-965429

When there is no absolutes in your life...... life does not matter...........

My parents are absolutely my parents (even if I was, by chance, adopted). My decisions and choices are absolutely my decisions and choices. I choose to be moral. I do not need the threat of a God's wrath to make me moral.

Actually he speaks the truth PJ. As for your morality, its totally Subjective. With out a point of reference , an absolute to fall back on, then your Morals has nothing to be based off of. What you think is good, some one else may view as bad.

Freedom Station

@Ole-Ed

I believe my earthly life is easier for me if I believe in these promises. If they do not come to pass, what have I lost by following these paths. I have lost nothing of value here on earth and I have lived with love and peace while I was on this earth, always knowing (believing) in what I had to look forward to after death.

As you mentioned, you believe in god because that's what you have been taught - it's easier for you to believe in these promises even if they are false. It sounds like comfort is more important to you than finding the truth, and that's ok. But don't pity those like me who are not comforted by what you believe.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."

There are many people in life who " werent Taught " as you put it , with having God in their life. I know plenty, as well as myself to some extent. My mother didnt make me go to Church. I felt the desire to know God. I cant explain that, maybe it has to do with predestination, or being chosen, who knows. There is one thing I know, that anyone can be saved, and its never too late for anyone. I spent good portions of my life rejecting or turning away from God, and times when i Didnt believe in him at all. As time goes on, the only logical conclusion left about life, how we got here, how every thing came to be, is points to God. I take comfort knowing that I am loved by God, and no one can ever come close to replicating that love like he can and no one can take it away.

SDN - Do you suggest that there are circumstances in which the Sandy Hook shootings would be justified? If not, and I suspect you would say not, then there ARE absolutes in your life as well as the lives of all of us. We generally don't consider OUR absolutes to be absolutes because we don't question them.

gabisgumby - Why do we idiotically equate political party with faith? There are both conservatives and progressives, republicans and democrats who believe in God and who don't. Many Christian denominations have a long history of liberal social activism despite doctrinal conservatism.

Jonathon, Despite what you might want to believe, hate and vengeance are the sum total of the Christian God.

"so God decides to have 20 innocent children slaughtered. Sorry, Mike Huckabee's god may be that small and petty but my GOD is above such acts of cruelty."

If you are talking of the God of the Bible - Your God most definitely is capable of such acts of cruelty - as you put it.

For example:

Genesis

GENESIS 6 & 7 Unhappy with the wickedness of man, God killed every living thing on the planet except Noah’s family. Men, women, infants and animals drowned in unimaginable terror and agony.

GENESIS 19:6- In Sodom, Lot’s home was assaulted by a homosexual mob seeking to have relations with two angels. Lot volunteered his virgin daughters to the crowd, saying "you can do what you like with them" as long as the guests are left alone. After offering his children to be raped, Lot was then appointed by God as worthy of rescue from Sodom’s destruction.

GENESIS 19:26: God, still unfazed by the proposed rape of Lot’s virgin daughters, turned Lot’s wife into a pillar of salt for the heinous crime of looking over her shoulder.

GENESIS 38: 8-10 – Onan was instructed by Judah to lay with his brother’s wife to produce offspring for his brother (who was put to death by God for wickedness). Onan slept with his brother’s wife but "spilled his semen on the ground to keep from producing offspring for his brother" (NIV). God found this wicked, so God killed him.

Exodus

EXODUS 7:2-4 God hardened Pharaoh’s heart and planned his "mighty acts of judgment.

EXODUS 7:20-21 God turned the Nile river to blood. The fish died, and the water was undrinkable.

EXODUS 8: 6-7 God sent a plague of frogs which covered the land.

EXODUS 8:16 God sent a plague of gnats.

EXODUS 8:24 God sent a swarm of flies.

EXODUS 9:5 God killed all of the Egyptian livestock with a plague.

EXODUS 9:10 God sent a plague of festering boils on the people and animals.

EXODUS 9:22-25 God sent a hail storm to Egypt, striking man and animal, stripping the land.

EXODUS 12: 29 God killed the first-born in every Egyptian home that wasn’t marked with lamb’s blood.

EXODUS 17:13 Moses held out the staff of God, allowing Joshua to kill the Amalekites.

EXODUS 21:20-21 According to God’s law, it was wrong to beat a slave to the point of death. But if the slave survived and got back up within a few days, the beating wasn’t punishable, because the slave was the property of the master. (God endorsed slavery and the beating of slaves.)

EXODUS 32:27 After seeing the golden calf, God commanded the Levites, "Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor." 3,000 were slaughtered, and God was pleased.

Leviticus

LEVITICUS 26:7-8 God rewarded obedience with assurances that enemies would all die by the sword.

LEVITICUS 26:22 God warned that, if the people didn’t listen to Him, he would send wild animals to rob parents of their children, destroy cattle and leave the roads deserted.

LEVITICUS 26:27-29 God threatened hostility, punishing people for their sins "seven times over," making them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters.

Numbers

NUMBERS 12:9-14 God was displeased with Miriam, so he struck her with leprosy and banished her from the camp for seven days.

NUMBERS 15:32-36 A man gathered sticks for a fire on the Sabbath. By God’s command, he was stoned to death.

NUMBERS 16:27-33 The men were rebellious, so God caused the earth to open and swallow up the men, wives and children.

NUMBERS 16:35 A fire from God killed 250 men.

NUMBER 16:48 A plague from God killed 14,700

NUMBERS 21:3 The Lord gave the Canaanites over to Israel, who "completely destroyed them and their towns."

NUMBERS 21:6 God sent venomous snakes, which bit and killed many Israelites.

NUMBERS 21:35 With God’s approval, the Israelites went into the city of Og, killed the king, his sons, the army (leaving no survivors) and took over the land.

NUMBERS 25:4 God told Moses to kill the leaders of @!$%#tim and expose their bodies in broad daylight.

NUMBERS 25:8 Phinehas, son of Aaron the priest, killed an Israelite man and Midianite woman with a spear, plunging the spear "into the woman’s body."

NUMBERS 25:9 A plague from God killed 24,000.

NUMBERS 31:9 Under God’s command, the Israelites captured the Midianite women and children, and "they took all the plunder and spoils."

NUMBERS 31:17-18 God commanded Moses to kill all of the male Midianite children and "kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man." The virgins were presumably raped. (NOTE: How could the soldiers know which women were virgins?)

NUMBERS 31:31-40 God divided the plunder to the soldiers, the priest, the Israelites and for tribute to the Lord. 675,000 sheep, 72,000 cattle, 61,000 donkeys and 32,000 virgin women.

DEUTERONOMY 2:33-34 Under God’s leadership, the Israelites utterly destroyed the men, women and children of Sihon. "…we left no survivors."

DEUTERONOMY 3:6 Under God’s leadership, the Israelites destroyed the men, women and children of Og. They plundered the livestock and possessions.

DEUTERONOMY 7:2 God told the Israelites, regarding their enemies, to "destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy."

DEUTERONOMY 20:13-14 God laid down the rules for battle, instructing the slaughter of all of the men. Women, children, livestock and possessions could be taken as "plunder for yourselves."

DEUTERONOMY 20:16 "…in the cities of the nations the LORD your god is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes."

DEUTERONOMY 21:10-13 According to God’s law, if an Israelite soldier was at war with an enemy, and he saw a beautiful woman that he found attractive, he could capture her to be his wife. She must then shave her head, trim her nails and discard the clothing she was wearing when captured. She could mourn her father and mother for a month. If the soldier wasn’t pleased with her for any reason, he could "let her go wherever she wishes."

DEUTERONOMY 28:53 God’s punishment for disobedience included eating "the fruit of the womb, the flesh of the sons and daughters the LORD your God has given you."

These are only the first five books of the Bible. Need I continue?

I'm sorry man, but I too was a Christian at one time and the more I learn about Christianity the more I see a ancient religion that is rooted in paganism and religious barbarism.

And I thought Mike Huckabee was an intelligent person.

Thanks for the best laugh that I've had all week.

Mary Astor, Thanks so much for adding so meaningfully to the disussion.

If we stray from that path he has laid for us, but in the end we ask forgiveness we WILL be permitted to live in His heaven for eternity.

Well then, what exactly is the point of living your life denying yourself of all the things you want, even though you know they are evil desires? You want to hump your neighbor, steal a diamond ring, cheat on your taxes, bully your wife and kids, put out a hit on your boss? Go right ahead!! Just make sure you ask for forgiveness and you're fine?

That is the most ridiculous life philosophy I've ever heard. That's the problem with religious nuts: they take no responsibility for anything.

We are not God's puppets. He gave man FREE WILL. The shooter was a sick person that killed for no apparent reason. Are you going to blame a sick person for something that is out of their control?

Another example! OK, he's sick. Who made him sick? Who (supposedly) created him and had a 'divine plan' for his life?

You say we have free will but in the next sentence you say it wasn't his fault.

Whose fault was it? Who put the gun in his hand and told him to go kill kids?

Religion removes responsibility from the individual..."it's God's plan". Logically then, it was God's plan that a sick person He created would slaughter innocent children.

That's ridiculous. Religion is the panacea of the fearful and the foolish.

There are no absolute,

20 dead American children - a national tragedy.

500 000 dead Iraqi children - acceptable result of US imposed sanctions.

So I'm guessing there was not a single Christian who was for those sanctions then, and not a single Christian was for the Iraq or Afghan wars.

Sorry but when you need a god to help you differentiate between good and bad YOU are the one without any morality.

@Obama Whistles Idiots Follow

There are several different objections I could bring up right now, but I'll only bring up two.

Firstly, do you believe God is omniscient? That is, do you believe that God knows everything there is to know - past - present - future?

If not I would point you towards:

Job 37:16

Do you know the balancings of the clouds,
the wondrous works of him who is perfect in knowledge.

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord and mighty in power;
his understanding has no limit.

1 Samuel 2:3

Talk no more so very proudly,
let not arrogance come from your mouth;
for the LORD is a God of knowledge,
and by him actions are weighed.

Isaiah 55:9

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Job 28:24

For he looks to the ends of the earth
and sees everything under the heavens.

1 John 3:19-20

By this we shall know that we are of the truth and reassure our heart before him; for whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

Hebrews 4:13

And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

Isaiah 46:9

I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done.

Matthew 10:30

But even the hairs of your head are all numbered.

Psalm 139:4

Even before a word is on my tongue,
behold, O LORD, you know it altogether.

Now, if God knows everything that is going to happen, then it follows that we don't have free will.

For more on this I would direct you to this youtube channel:

Now Secondly, from a secular perspective, All evidence seems to indicate that we do not have free will in the first place. The evidence is pretty strong I might add.

For more on this I highly recommend you read Free Will by the neuroscientist Sam Harris.

The fact is we live in a world not contolled by Jehovah but in a world controlled by satan. Luke 10:18 speaks to satan's banishment from heaven to this earth. The question hear is not "why God let's these things happen". The simple fact is that in this world of free will, bad things happen to people for three reasons. One is poor decisions. Every action has a reaction and sometimes our poor decisions lead to something bad. It's a consequence. Next, Satan is the ruler of this earthly world. (John 5:19) His goal from the beginning in the Garden of Eden was to questions Jehovah's authority over us. He succeeded with Adam and Eve and the same argument continues today. The third reason is wrong place and wrong time. (Ecclesiastes 9:11) These children did not do anything to deserve this. Their parent's did not do anything to bring this upon their families. It is a tradegy and nothing else.

In all their pain, however, God shows that something good can come out of this. Read the book of Job. This entire account is based on Satan inferring to Jehovah that the only reason why Job worshipped him was because of his fortune. However, Job proved Satan wrong and Jehovah returned everything Job had lost back and then some.

For as painful as this is ,there are words of encouragement that we can fall back on. Roman 8:28 states that all things work for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose. Translation, Jehovah will bring something positive from this tragedy. Phillipians 4:13, "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me". Translation, Christ is with these families carrying them through this. Proverbs 3:5, Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding. Translation, don't try to figure this one out and leave is to God.

Our world is an evil place and getting worse each and every day. God is trying to tell us all something. Are you listening? I know I am.

My prayers continue to be lifted up for these families.

The whole basis for religion is to deal with the question of divine purpose. If you believe that there is some purpose for our existence then you subscribe to some sort of religion, otherwise there is no basis. The problem I have with the notion of divine purpose is it makes no sense. What is the purpose of our existence? Given that the universe has been around for over 17B years and modern man has only existed for, say 100K years, the argument for a divine purpose is weak in my view.

Right on, Mary!

It's time for these so called "Christians" to take a long hard look at themselves and ask why they are so small and petty.

Answer: Politics.

I can only assume that all you people that are bashing God and religion will not be doing anything with your families on the 25th... I mean that is the birthday of Jesus!!!

The only time certain segments of humanity ask "where was god", is when when something terrible happens, either to them personally or they observe it.

Then they wait for enlightenment from their religious leaders, hoping to get satisifying answers. Do they receive the truth from the Bible or are they comforted? No. How could they ever be? Their so called "religious leaders" mis-represent (God) whose personal name is Jehovah, by painting him as cruel, uncaring, and as the one to blame. Or worse yet, they don't place the blame where it squarely belongs - on Satan. The Bible is "crystal clear" showing that "SATAN is the God of THIS system of things" So it only stands to reason, that this world has adopted Satan's THINKING, HIS VALUES, HIS MORALS, HIS LOVE OF VIOLENCE"

100% the time, the majority of people go on living their lives completely devoid of the spirituality that the bible invites and begs us to have. Most pride themselves on being the "master of their own lives". They never read their bible. If a scattered few do, they certainly never put anything into practice. Why let it guide their mind, influence their choices or goals or families? How many people will reason with their child and help them to see the corrupting influence of violent video games or music that promotes the love of sex with anyone at anytime? Then have the courage to tell their child "NO I LOVE YOU TOO MUCH TO BUY THAT FOR YOU"? Humm...

How many people let this world's "Music,TV & POP Icons" define their children's moral code and ethics? Where is the parental responsibility towards this? Parents let those mentioned earlier dictate what the their precious daughters go out wearing, crotch level skirts, shorts which show their entire bottom or their breasts spilling out of their blouses.

As a result, their daily lives are saturated with me-ism, greed, violence, cheating, lying, breaking the law, stealing, having extra maritial affairs, being sexual deviants like lesbians & homosexuals, loving pornography, there isn't enough computer space for me to list what goes on.

They're "happily living" day to day, without requiring any accountability what-so-ever for "THEMSELVES", much less teaching their children any. Accountabilty, what??? I'm not accountable to anyone or anything~

That truth, that of "accountability" doesn't come into their minds. Only "where was God" when I or WE needed him?

Do you or they ever think how Jehovah thinks? "Hey I've been here all the time waiting for you, so where have you been?"

Uh oh - God just "killed" anti-abortionist Robert Bork. NOW what is he trying to tell us?

Erm, 1911colt80s, Christmas actually began as a pagan holiday to celebrate the winter solstice. The church chose that date for Christmas (and the spring solstice for Easter), in an attempt to overshadow the pagan holidays.The precise year of Jesus' birth, which some historians place between 7 and 2 BC, is unknown.^[15][16] His birth is mentioned in two of the four Canonical Gospels. By the early-to-mid 4th century, the WesternChristian Churchhad placed Christmas on December 25,^[17] a date later adopted in the East. The original date of the celebration in Eastern Christianity was January 6, in connection with Epiphany, and that is still the date of the celebration for the Armenian Apostolic Church and in Armenia, where it is a public holiday. As of 2012, there is a difference of 13 days between the modern Gregorian calendar and the older Julian calendar. Those who continue to use the Julian calendar or its equivalents thus celebrate December 25 and January 6 on what for the majority of the world is January 7 and January 19. For this reason, Ethiopia, Russia, Ukraine, Serbia, the Republic of Macedonia, and the Republic of Moldova celebrate Christmas on what in the Gregorian calendar is January 7; the Church of Greece celebrates Christmas on December 25.

The truth is that all of the customs of Christmas pre-date the birth of Jesus Christ, and a study of this would reveal that
Christmas in our day is a collection of traditions and practices taken from many cultures and nations.

The date of December 25th comes from Rome and was a celebration of the Italic god, Saturn, and the rebirth of the sun god.

This was done long before the birth of Jesus.

It was noted by the pre-Christian Romans and other pagans, that daylight began to increase after December 22nd, when they assumed that the sun god died.

These ancients believed that the sun god rose from the dead three days later as the new-born and venerable sun.

Thus, they figured that to be the reason for increasing daylight.

In Germany, the evergreen tree was used in worship and celebration of the yule god, also in observance of the resurrected sun god.

The evergreen tree was a symbol of the essence of life and was regarded as a phallic symbol in fertility worship.

Witches and other pagans regarded the red holly as a symbol of the menstrual blood of the queen of heaven, also known as Diana.

The holly wood was used by witches to make wands.

The white berries of mistletoe were believed by pagans to represent droplets of the semen of the sun god.

Both holly and mistletoe were hung in doorways of temples and homes to invoke powers of fertility in those who stood beneath and kissed, causing the spirits of the god and goddess to enter them.

These customs transcended the borders of Rome and Germany to the far reaches of the known world.

The question now arises: How did all of these customs find their way into contemporary Christianity, ranging from Catholicism to Protestantism to fundamentalist churches?

The word "Christmas"itself reveals who married paganism to Christianity.

The word "Christmas" is a combination of the words "Christ" and "Mass.

The word "Mass" means death and was coined originally by the Roman Catholic Church, and belongs exclusively to the church of Rome.

In short, Christmas is strictly a Roman Catholic word.

A simple study of the tactics of the Romish Church reveals that in every case, the church absorbed the customs, traditions and general paganism of every tribe, culture and nation in their efforts to increase the number of people under their control.

In short, the Romish church told all of these pagan cultures, "Bring your gods, goddesses, rituals and rites, and we will assign Christian sounding titles and names to them.

@4FreeThinkers There is a difference between knowing something and doing something about it. Just because God knows doesn't mean he interferes. Which then gives you free will. I think what people fail to understand is that this world is temporary.For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain.

For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.

And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

I also think another problem is that you're reading a secular book expecting to receive something that you would get a lot easier from reading your Bible or if you like you might just take a look back at some of the scriptures you wrote. I could also give you a few more: 1 Corinthians 3:19, 1 Corinthians 1:20 Jeremiah 8:9.

And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

The sad thing is that people say they know God and use his word without really knowing him. I know of the president, I read about him I know what he looks like I know he has children and a wife but I do not truly KNOW the president. People do the same with God and this is where religion comes in and a personal relationship with Jesus is left out. It is also a false knowledge of God. Hence the people who kill in the name of god. If you really want to know someone, a girlfriend, a friend your children's teacher, God, you would want to do things with that person right? How else would you get to really know someone? You'd have to talk to them spend time with them and so on. Just like I can't know my doctor or my child's teacher by talking to her/him on the phone a couple of times the same is true with God, you cant just read a couple of scriptures from the bible and expect to know God. God wants what is best for us, but how can he give it to us if we do not want him, except when we want or need something? Which is what Im assuming this article to mean. It seems to me that people are saying God did this because we removed him from our public schools when in fact what I think it means is how can you call on God when you asked him not to be there in the first place?

Religion removes responsibility from the individual..."it's God's plan"

I don't think so...you can have a "God plan" and couple that with free will - it's pretty easy, if you'll allow me to illustrate.

When I was a kid (many years ago) my friends an I used to read these "choose your own adventure" books. They were written with dozens and dozens of endings, and with each couple pages, you chose which path you wanted to take, for example, If you read the book, turn to page 40, if you decide to sleep, turn to page 49. And from there you had two parallel stories in the same book.

Now...as the book was completed and published, there was a "plan". In fact, there were 'x' number of plans, but the fact is, they were complete - the author was "omnipotent" about what would happen with every turn, as they authored the book in its entirety. In addition, each reader had the ability to choose their own adventure - i.e. free will.

It was up to each person to decide which actions they chose to take, and to be accountable for the ramifications of those actions. But the whole of the book being complete, there obviously was a plan that was in place.

I look at that hybrid relationship when I look at life...I believe that there is a "plan", but along the way there are an infinite number of choices we make, and those choices are all known, and the downstream ramifications of those, all known as well - and each of us makes choices and must be held accountable for each and every one.

Don't blame God.

God Created humans, not robots!

God is love & just!

Human Guilt - Rom 1:18-32

God is angry and he showing the world that he is angry at our ways. The kids were innocent, but He is showing us what can do to hurt us. He hurt everyone and it should make people stop and think about the way we are living, taking Him out of our lives. Huckabee is right. Cane killed Abel. This has happened since the beginning of time. God took the life of his own son for us. Did Mary deserve that, did Jesus deserve that? God is showing us signs (as written in the Bible) that he is unhappy with his world. He created this world to be a peaceful place, not what it has become. He is trying to call people to him, but some people are too ignorant and hate so much that they cannot see this.

"Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned."

OH, I like that, where/who is that from?

Also, to all those writing down bible versus, you are completely wasting your time, and everyone else time. At debate is the bible basically, so that means it can not be the source of an argument. That simply isn't how it works. That's like going to a murder trial, having all this evidence that shows that the defendant is the killer and the defense arguing that he did not do it because he said he didn't and then never looking for anything else as proof. The defense going solely on the defendants word, lol. How well do you think that we go in a trial?

@n33s3

Wow, that was a loaded reply - Firstly, let me say that looking back at my comment, I see that I took the wrong approach.

Let me address the main topic with a different approach:

"Either our wills are determined by prior causes and we are not responsible for them, or they are the product of chance and we are not responsible for them. If a man's choice to shoot the president is determined by a certain pattern of neural activity, which is in turn the product of prior causes-perhaps an unfortunate coincidence of bad genes, an unhappy childhood, lost sleep, and a cosmic-ray bombardment-what can it possibly mean to say that his will is "free"? No one has ever described a way in which mental and physical processes could arise that would attest to the existence of such freedom" ~ Sam Harris on Free Will

If you agree here, you are a determinist. Determinism is the polar opposite of the support of free will.

Kanic

"God is angry and he showing the world that he is angry at our ways. The kids were innocent, but He is showing us what can do to hurt us. "

Ummmmm....ok, but sounds like your gawd needs anger management, or is just an angry alcoholic. Take your pick. If mr. gawd's roller-coaster emotions is so human like, what's making him so special?

Satan was the good guy. He felt man should have free will and knowledge. God was the one wanting mankind to stay childlike and owned.

@Obama Whistles Idiots Follow

If a rich man tries to bribe you, you can always refuse knowing that the refusal will earn you a place in a better life after death.

How about Pascal's Wager? The benefits of a belief in GOD is in YOUR FAVOR!

So you're agreeing with Karl Marx that religion is the "opiate of the masses?" That most people just behave morally because of the rewards promised to them by their belief system?

@Obama Whistles Idiots Follow

No, Not a literal script anyways - I don't believe in a God so I don't believe there is anyone writing any script.

But here is my point:

Everything is predetermined in the sense that our actions are controlled by preceding events and thus we are not free.

A man can only refuse to be corrupted if the preceding events to that time lead him to do so.

For example, A grown man who's childhood consisted of constant sexual abuse and multiple beatings is much more likely to lead a life of a serial killer than a grown man who's childhood consisted of loving parents and loving siblings.

In a sense, the past determines the future - With variables as large as ones entire childhoods, and as small as a single brain synapse.

Again, I highly recommend Free Will by Sam Harris

Time for radical Christians to realize religious mythology, not God, was banned from government and schools. The complex wonderment within and all around us is confirmation there is a God, but nothing confirms Jesus Christ was anymore a son of God than any other male.....And do not recite the Bible which was written, interpreted and edited by man again and again.

God is the intellectual energy of life, and God IS everywhere...........Drats.

...thumpity, thump, thump, thumpity, thump, thump..... listen to the bible thumpers go, and go, and go....

This tragedy could have just as easily happened in a church/Sunday school, then what would all you so called "Christians" be saying???? Let me venture a guess....

1. "those people" were practicing the WRONG type of christianity and they are ALL going to hell anyways....

2. I was SATAN! I seen him!!!

3. they musta needed killin' 'casue it happened in a church

4. It was the will of God...

Religion is a construct of primitive man's mind to explain the unexplainable. The US is not a theocracy. Our founding fathers were very, very astute in constructing a government not based on religion. Let us always remember that. Freedom OF religion also means freedom FROM religion if we should choose.

4FreeThinkers,

You do not believe in God ? Then how do you explain your emotions or set of conflicting feelings of love and hate, compassion and greed, remorse and contentment, ect., surely these things are not derived from minerals, chemicals and gases that represent the building blocks of life ?....How do you explain evolution which is Gods most useful tool for maintaining a healthy balance of necessary plant and animal life forms, the numbers of predator and prey and supply and demand within what ever habitat............You yourself, like a tree, did not begin as you are, both began as a seed and evolved into what they are, and will continue to evolve until the day they cease to function. And no matter how many off-spring you or the tree produce, no two will ever be exactly alike.

Human bodies are but one of many temporary vehicles that allow souls ( the captain of the ship) to experience things and feelings of a physical nature. Vehicles are at the mercy of the elements, souls are eternal, and are not. It is the soul, not man, that is in the image of thy creator

@Ellis Baumgarner

You put humans on too high a pedestal. In fact the very definition of emotion is chemical reactions happening in the brain. You might argue that there are emotions that require a supernatural explanation. However, it has been proven time and time again that a godless drug is capable of producing emotion unimaginably mind blowing to the layman. Emotions are just that, chemicals interacting.

Evolution is an amazing thing, but there need not be a supernatural hand in it. Evolution has been guided through natural selection and continues to be.There is nothing supernatural about natural selection because it is just that - natural.

"It is the soul, not man, that is in the image of thy creator" Not prosaic by any mean however, until a soul is presented I can't see the sense in invoking a creator.

I read years ago a book called, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People." It made sense to me - worth reading. With that said, the only "responsibility" in this case, if responsibility could be borne, is on Adam Lanza's mother, not "God". She made two grave errors: (1) not getting EARLY INTERVENTION for a son, on the Autism spectrum, who showed signs of serious socialization issues, which finally manifested in his fascination with death-obsessed "Goth" culture (big warning sign flashing there); and (2) not keeping her firearms in a GUN SAFE where they would not be easily accessible to anyone. She paid for her errors with her life. I am not a gun/firearm fan, to be sure. [The Second Amendment "right to bear (not own) arms" was instated for two reasons: (1) our founding fathers - who could not agree on ANYTHING - unanimously agreed they DID NOT WANT A STANDING ARMY, the idea of which was abhorrent to them - but citizens mustering for a militia, as needed, were OK; and (2) pioneering people pushing out into the frontier were still needing firearms to hunt and protect themselves from large animals and disgruntled "Indians" who did not want them moving onto their land (Who knew?). Both of these reasons cease to exist today, yet firearm sales are still through the roof.] Unfortunately, firearms are here to stay, so the moral of the story is: (1) If you have a child who is showing signs of serious socialization issues, denial does not do them or anyone else a favor - The earlier assistance and treatment is sought, the better the results (much more difficult after a child has turned 18 years); and (2) If you have firearms in your home, KEEP ALL FIREARMS SAFELY LOCKED UP and out of reach of children or anyone else you do not want to have use them on you. If you want better security, take that $500 you would have spent on a firearm and put better locks on your doors and windows, and get a well-trained dog. God or no God, when it comes to firearms and personal safety, THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR PREVENTION. 'Nuf said.

People have free will, whether you believe in God or not. Man has created the hell on earth - psychiatry is giving mankind the final killing blow. Their gift to you - psychotic meds. Read the damn labels - the side effects are homicidal thoughts and suicidal thoughts. How can you people continue to ignore the truth? Psychiatry KILLS. And not just the victim in its clutches. It can add these children to the list.

We will deteriorate as a country until we get rid of psychiatry and put in a moral code for our children (and adults) to follow. Despite the technological advances we as a people are worse off than the pioneers. At least they had a work ethic and created something. Our citizens who get government money almost outnumber the people in the private sector who have jobs. We need to stop the insanity.

Methinks Seymour forgot to take his meds....

LOL @ Gumps - Its a psychotic Conspiracy!!

Sorry, but I have to say it... I blame the Politicians! Every member of Congress, both Houses, that have served from 2004 until today.

Just as much blame as if they were the killers, themselves.

Why? Simple, the very weapon used in Conn. was on the "banned" list from the Brady Bill... the same Brady Bill that lapsed in 2004. The same Brady bill that was not re-introduced until AFTER this tragedy.

Here is the scoop, in order to re-enact a bill that had expired only requires 51% to pass each House. Doesn't require President or Judge, or even voter.

Now, GOP controlled Congress let it lapse, but from 2007 and 2008 there has been a majority control in both Houses... NOT ONE SINGLE MOTION TO RE-ENSTATE, NOTHING...

Anyone that "claims" to be for gun control SHOULD have been first in line.... Including the President. No incentive, no "new" bill, except a few insignificant.

Then factor in his reaction to Colorado... One would think the innocent killing of children there, whould have been enough? NOPE! Because he didn't want to lose voters support.

Him and every other Pro-Gun Politician up for re-election where more concerned with keeping their jobs, then people keeping their lives and keeping certain types of guns out of the hands of irresponsible.

Seriously, THAT SHOULD MAKE YOU ALL MAD! Every last one should be out of a job and be equally accountable for their failures to protect.

@Obama Whistles Idiots Follow

You seemed to have missed my point.

Firstly, I am not arguing that it will always be the case that a man with a troubled past will always end up to be a serial killer. The idea is that he will be far more likely to be a serial killer because his brain chemistry has been affected in a negative way as a result of the abuse.

It’s true, there are those cases where even though a person had everything going against him (it seems), he pulls through, and shocks everyone.

But let me first ask you a question....What is the difference between the person who shocks everyone at his lowest point, and the person who completely fails at his lowest point?

I would argue that it have to be something at the level of the brain. Something determined by a certain pattern of neural activity, which is in turn the product of prior causes - perhaps a coincidence of bad (in the case of the failure) and good (in the case of the comeback) genes.

And if you agree here (that it was something at the level of the brain determined by prior neural activity) what can it possibly mean to say that his will is "free"?

You mentioned an unusual heightened activity in a case where a woman was praying. But, unusual is not a case for the supernatural. It is only that unusual - and by the way....I'm not in any sense, denying the existence of spiritual experiences of people. All I'm arguing is that they can be understood at the level of the brain.

Before replying please watch this video of Sam Harris on Free Will: youtube. com / watch?v=pCofmZlC72g (remove spaces).

@Obama Whistles Idiots Follow

Well…I can’t say I didn’t see this one coming….

I’m assuming you’ve not taken an evolutionary biology course up to this point…Which is fine – I’m perfectly happy to address your questions about evolution.

With regards to “why are there still apes?”

Let me make one thing quite clear to you. We. Are. Apes – And I don’t mean that in a figurative sense. We are literally apes.

Definition: Apes – Old World anthropoid mammals, more specifically a clade of tailless primates, belonging to the biological superfamily Hominoidea. See also: Hominoidea.

For your convenience…Here is the definition of primates:

Definition: Primate - Any mammals that have a highly developed brain, eyes facing forward, a shortened nose and muzzle, and opposable thumbs. Primates usually live in groups with complex social systems, and their high intelligence allows them to adapt their behavior successfully to different environments. Lemurs, monkeys, apes, and humans are primates.

To try to explain this further, I think you know that humans are mammals – Being warm-blooded with the possession of hair or fur, and the secretion of milk by females.

For the same reason, humans are apes – having a highly developed brain, eyes facing forward, a shortened nose and muzzle, and opposable thumbs.

Humans are apes for the same reason humans are mammals – We fit the criteria.

We are not descendants of apes (Apes being us) or monkeys for that matter (A form of primate - Not an ape mind you, because they do not fit the criteria.)

The claim being made is that we share a common ancestor with our fellow primates. The fundamental Christians who are voicing objections similar to the one you just made, either don’t understand the science, or are being truly dishonest.

For more on evolution, I would recommend you read: Why Evolution Is True by Jerry A. Coyne

Now, to get back to the main topic:

“But let me first ask you a question....What is the difference between the person who shocks everyone at his lowest point, and the person who completely fails at his lowest point?”

“I didn't understand what you meant by this statement. Explain if you can.”

If I didn’t know better I would think you were attempting to be patronizing there. However, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume it was an error in your typography.

Firstly, the question is reasonably straightforward; I mean to inquire what happened in the case of the comeback kid (what led him to decide to reform), versus the case of the failure (what led him to decide to continue on with his failures). I would maintain that it was something in the brain (Perhaps a memory or something as small as a synapse). But since you are arguing against the neural underpinnings in my argument, what sort of explanation could you give for their actions that would not involve the brain?

“Some people confuse free will with the ability to have absolute control over every situation. That's not free will. Free will is the ability to choose between one action or another. Every person who attended that lecture could have stayed home.”

Now you said you watched a good portion of the video. However, it doesn’t sound like you did. Neither I, nor Sam Harris has suggested that free will is “absolute control over every situation” – as you put it. I don’t know where you got that idea.

But by your definition; that free will is “the ability to choose between one action or another”, I can reasonably say, that free will, in fact, does not exist.

As you admit, you didn’t watch the entire video. I would encourage you to do so. Otherwise your only retaining half of the idea and you end up looking bad from my end.

Right now is the perfect point in the conversation for you to start. Please start from the beginning and go all the way through. The last 20 min are questions so the talk isn’t as long as it appears to be.

If you would rather not watch it, I would have to bid you Happy Holidays and no hard feelings…But that video, is my argument, that the idea that we have “the ability to choose between one action or another” is an illusion.

Your choice whether or not to continue.

Oh - I see where your coming from now....and I have to say I laughed my ass off when I realized how you were looking at it.

You are thinking an ape is a one animal... This is a common misconception. The animal in the cage you are probable picturing, is a "Gorilla ape". A Gorrilla is a type of ape just as chimpanzees are a type of ape. There is no one animal named "Ape". Rather, Ape is a classification for a clade of tailless primates, belonging to the biological superfamily Hominoidea.

For example, canine is classification for golden retrievers and poodles but there is no one animal named canine. In the same way if you went to the zoo, the little sign in front of the dog cages would read "canines" regardless of which canines were on display.

Hopefully that cleared it up for you... I look forward to your response on free will :)

@OBAMA:America's Eva Peron

Well, I scoured the internet and even checked my local library - I can't find it anywhere.

While I'm watching "FREE WILL" maybe you could get a copy of the movie ELMER GANTRY. The way Elmer corners Jim Leferts, an atheist newsman, that used a bible reference in his newspaper then gets him to say that he only prints the facts, thus making the Bible a source of fact, was brilliant.

I'd love to address whatever argument was made. Can you remember the argument?

Or was it simply that because the newsman used a bible reference in his paper and his slogan happened to be "I only print the facts" - that somehow proves the legitimacy of the Bible? I'm having trouble trying to understand why this is a knockdown argument... A fictional movie isn't exactly paramount to the real world. You can make people say whatever you want them to say or do - It scripted. That doesn't make whatever they do proof of whatever you’re trying to prove....

For example, I can make a movie about how the use capitalism causes aliens to get angry and come to earth to kill us. However I wouldn't us the movie as evidence for that assertion - Its fiction. We are talking about the real world.

"God created man in his own image. You must believe that God is a gorilla".

I'm not sure why you use this quote. I don't happen to believe in a God - so no I don't think God is any kind of ape - I think you meant to say "ape" again, we are apes - not gorillas - gorillas being our cousins. We share a common ancestor with gorillas...

It sounds as if you’re not taking much time trying to understand what I'm saying with regards to evolution. If you want to continue on with this conversation, then listen to what I am saying. Otherwise you’re wasting both our time.

Here is one scene I found with Elmer on evolution:

http://www.youtube .com /watch?v=eVysgIqPSO8 (remove spaces)

After watching this (I did laugh), I'm not sure what exactly was going on here. Either Elmer was attempting to mock evolution by twisting its facts, the directors where trying to portray Elmer as clueless on the topic of evolution, or the directors themselves were rather clueless (I do hope this wasn't the reason). But in any case, the fact remains that or fellow primates are our cousins not uncles.

With the use of uncle, he is asserting that he thinks evolution states that we evolved from the primate he has on display there. NOT TRUE, we share a common ancestor that we both have evolved from.

Now to understand this whole ape/gorilla/monkey distinction, take a look at my last reply, and with that gem in mind, re-read my reply before that.

I hope you found Free Will an interesting sit-down. Any objections you'd like to voice, I'd be happy to address :)

@OBAMA:America's Eva Peron

Indeed, that is the video I gave the link to in my last reply...

I'm beginning to think your merely glancing at my replies - which is rather rude, as I take the time to answer your questions.

Please read my replies in entirety or you wont be getting the face value of what I'm trying to communicate and again, will be wasting both of our time.

@OBAMA:America's Eva Peron

“Maybe it was a chemical imbalance that caused Burt Lancaster to re-write Sinclair Lewis's book?”

I know this was you, attempting to make a wise-crack, but I’m going to answer you as if this was a serious question.

Firstly, no, it probably wasn’t a “chemical imbalance” (That would be the case of someone who was acting unusual), rather his decision to “re-write” as you put it, Lewis’s book, was probably brought on by the neural psychological events that happened sub-consciously prior to his decision. These neural psychological events manifest themselves as subconscious thoughts, and eventually are brought in to consciousness.

‘"Well I'll be a monkey's uncle!" I haven't heard that in years but if you Wikipedia it, it will show you how most people think about the Darwin theory.’

You know, you admit you haven’t heard it in years, but you go on to say that the 85+ year history behind this phrase proves how most people think of evolution today…I would seriously consider rethinking my reasoning if I were you.

“You right as far as I had very little interest in Darwin throughout the years so I don't have much knowledge on the subject."

I applaud your admittance of your lack of interest in biology ( I would agree, it’s not the most interesting topic out there), however I was seriously troubled with addition of:

“But why would I need it if I don't believe it. Think about it. Does an atheist spend all of their time reading about religions or God? Of course not. They are trying their best to avoid God. They will spend every waking hour defending Darwin."

I’m going to be as clear and concise with you right know as I possibly can be…If there was ever a point in this conversation where I needed you to pay attention, its right now…

You just said that you don’t need to look at the evidence because you have already written it off as humbug – to paraphrase. And that and you’re asserting that I haven’t looked at the evidence behind Christianity and I’m simply writing it off without reason…Let me make one thing quite clear to you. I. Used. To. Be. A. Christian.

The reason for my de-conversion wasn’t anything of the stereotypical apostate. It was simply the reading of my Bible. Things didn’t add up. The Old Testament God seemed definitely more hateful than the New Testament God, contradictions were found throughout. I found all this very disturbing and started researching the history behind the Bible.

Once you start actually looking at the information in regards to biblical history, the underpinnings of your faith truly start to dissolve.

-That’s all to say, that I have done my research. It has actually been proven that non-religious people are more educated in the area of religion than religious people themselves. I might add that most of my fellow non-believer friends know quite a bit about religion as well.

Now to get to your problem, I find it very disturbing that you’re willing to dismiss a theory that is accepted worldwide without even the slightest interest in the HUGE amount of evidence that supports it. Do you not see how unreasonable this position is?

By the way you seem to use the term “theory” when addressing evolution, as if it is something that is just an idea and hasn’t been proven...This is not the case. Prof. Ken Miller of Brown University puts it best.

"When you say it's just a theory you make it sound as if facts and theories are opposite things; That we're sure of facts but not so sure of theories. In fact theories in science are a higher level than fact because what theories do is they explain facts. They unite them." - Prof. Ken Miller of Brown University Evolution Defender and Christian

Knowing you from our prior exchanges, your mind was probably just blown…However I would encourage you to look up the term “scientific theory”. It’s of a different definition than something that was arbitrarily spun out of your mind.

“Are you a person who believes that every event that occurs is "random and meaningless"? If God doesn't exist, then there is no real purpose to life is there. When your life ends, everything ends, at least from your point of view. Then your theory of NO FREE WILL makes sense simply because nothing really has any lasting meaning.”

Wow, that’s what I would call a high protein paragraph.

Firstly, no I do not look at my life as “meaningless”. It’s actually quite beautiful from my perspective. My life can be of whatever meaning I choose for it to be. I can choose to spend my life the best way I know how. It’s actually quite liberating to know that I won the lottery when those to sex cells joined together to form me. It was a million to one shot but it had to be someone, and that someone happened to be me. Indeed, knowing this life is going to be my only life, makes this life all the more precious. With that knowledge I want to make my mark in the world and rise to the highest peaks I possibly can. And yes everything does end at death from my perspective but that is why I cherish every second of this life all the more…

“Imagine if every generation started with a clean slate. Absolutely no prior history to guide the next generation to any course of action. Would any of those generation be able to accomplish more than another without a prior generations history to guide it?”

Not sure what you’re trying to say here. Are you suggesting that it is the case that if we have no free will every generation begins with a clean slate…Please expand on this point if you could.

“Do you have a theory on why a bible was written in the first place?”

Not a scientific theory mind you :), but yes I do have an idea of why “holy” books have been written...

The existence of religious texts is the result of religious people documenting their religious experiences and beliefs - Nothing more. Interestingly, Most of the stories you find in the Bible are taken directly from pagan religious texts that existed prior to Christianity. Many religions and spiritual movements take what they observe to be the unknown and come up with a magical or mystical story to explain that unknown. Once they formulate these stories, they transcribe them into text and declare that their sacred texts are divinely or supernaturally revealed or inspired.

I’m sure you’re very interested in my de-conversion and why the Bible fails to be legitimate. For more on this I would recommend Karen Armstrong’s - A History of God.

Also, the youtube playlist found here:

youtube. com/ watch?v=mSy1-Q_BEtQ&list=PLA0C3C1D163BE880A (remove spaces)

I don’t mean to overwhelm you with resources – but I’m assuming you’ve already gotten to Sam Harris’ talk on free will and presumably don’t have a reply...

Ah, Herald9, thanks for reminding us of the Party Line.

I like the ironic comment about the Notre Dame game. Far, far too many people actually think that God takes sides in sports games. What could be more arrogant?

What could be more arrogant : god taking side in a war.

God Almighty doesn't worry. He answers to no one, since He has all power and authority, and His ways are not our ways.

So why does Hucksterbee think God needs us to put him in schools if all the things you say are true? And if God has "all power and authority" why did God agree to have a separation of church and state when the Constitution was written? If God's ways are not "our ways" then why do we keep trying to get God to give us stuff when we pray to him when convenient.

Why don't we just go back to voodoo dolls and forget the Huckster??

I didn't see Jesus or any mercy for these children, or all of the other children in the world who die needlessly every day. Show me your God who claims to know the number of hairs on our head who allows this to happen. Satan was created so God didn't have to answer for all the evils He LETS HAPPEN on a daily basis. If God is truly Almighty and All Seeing and All Wise, WHY CAN'T HE FIX THINGS? And please, don't start with that Free Will foolishness. God has all kinds of rules he wants you to obey but knows that most won't. Let's be honest. Most of these rules are men's rules that they ascribe to God to give them moral authority. Guess what? NO AUTHORITY WITHOUT RESPONSIBILITY. If you won't take the blame for what goes wrong, I sure as hell won't worship you for what goes right.

Where is God? He is here...Our nation took God out of public schools.

VictoryRuth, What is your point? That God is not in our schools so 27 people were killed by a madman. You are delusional.

Which god Ruth? All religions are myths. I can't believe how many people still believe in such BS. Grow up.

To all you people who scoff or attack the idea of God, here's something to think about. When people truly believe in God there is at least some degree of accountability for their actions. Man can still be a villain but even if there is some small restraint because of this belief that is better than nothing. When psychiatry set about to destroy and enslave mankind it had two targets - the family unit and the spirituality of man. When those two things are gone then we will truly have a hell on earth. And we are rapidly getting there. With the destruction of spirituality and the psychiatric mandate that "if it feels good it must be okay", we have no moral compass with which to live our lives. We are becoming a drugged nation of sheep that is being fed the wrong reasons for our problems. Look into what is really happening - even the psychiatrists admit they can't cure anyone and don't know what to do expect push the deadly drugs that are enriching the pharmaceutical companies in the billions.

When people truly believe in God there is at least some degree of accountability for their actions.

Not sure where you pulled that one from but that is completely false. Please provide references. I'm sure though you won't find any.

With the destruction of spirituality and the psychiatric mandate that "if it feels good it must be okay", we have no moral compass with which to live our lives.

Yes the old myth believer stand-by. This is again completely is absolutely not true. Morals don't come from religion. Human have had them long before religions. You do know your myth is about 2,00 years old and human have be around for about 200,000 years. Try again.

Huckabee's God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. He has a book with your name in it where He keeps a record of all you say and do.

You do not repent because you do not fear God.

Jesus Christ lived and died and was raised from the dead. He is who He says He is, and you are in need of Him as Saviour like every human that has ever, or will ever live on earth.

This is a recorded historical event, more credible and verified than any historical event you choose to believe.

Nonsense.

Actually, Herald9, it is not a recorded historical event. There is no verification outside the Bible.

I'm not interested in worshiping a God I have to fear. You can have that. According to the story, this God impregnated another man's wife and then let his son be executed like a common criminal. Pretty scary God.

Here's a question for you: Can God create a rock bigger than he can lift?

Herald9

There are no gods, no devils, no angels, no heaven or hell. There is only our natural world. Religion is but myth and superstition that hardens hearts and enslaves minds.

i'm behind you hearld9

As so many myth believers are. Sad.

Actually, Herald9, it is not a recorded historical event. There is no verification outside the Bible.

Not entirely true. The Roman (Pagan) politician and historian Tacitus wrote about Jesus and his execution around 116 AD:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tacitus_on_Christ

Roman-Jewish historian Josephus also mentions Jesus in a work dating from 93-94 AD and interestingly references "the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James:"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus_on_Jesus

Neither, however, mentions any miracles connected with Jesus.

Mockers, scoffers and unbelievers, all part of the end time prophecy,,, all is quickly coming to a close. Judgment is sure.. some of you may want to re-think your beliefs or non-belief. That is of course entirely up to you, but don't sit there and try to tell me my Father is not real...The Father will welcome His Children home....so at their next conscience moment they will be welcomed into Eternity, with the Holy One Of Israel, The Creator of Heaven and Earth. Praise Yah!

Let's hope he indeed welcomes "his children" home. Meanwhile, the rest of us will have a party! I, for one, can't wait. I won't mind going to Hell - at least the company will be a lot more interesting. For me, Hell would be spending eternity with you right wing bible thumpers!

With such a terrible tragedy, can we agree that real evil exists in our world? If yes, than we must acknowledge that there is somewhere a source of good that is it's antithisis. We cannot believe in one and not the other. We cannot judge good or bad without knowing somehow what good or bad "is". If we do not believe in evil, than "tragedy" is merely a matter of personal opinion or the accepted collective feeling. When we see that life's choices are not relative along a spectrum of human history or thought, and not meaningless but carry heavy worth and meaning we begin to understand that man cannot rectify these terrible tragedies as well as the tragedies that lie in his own heart. He needs a savior, and it cannot be himself.

The writings from Tacitus is the only evidence. The only one. To me without other evidence to verify I would not consider it fact.

Neither, however, mentions any miracles connected with Jesus.

Hell no. Of course not. We have to keep in mind we are talking about myths and the supernatural.

"Your reasoning is repulsive: Because we have removed your god from our schools, this is how your god gets even?" he wrote. (Steve Mcswain) from the article)

God wasnt getting even , God was giving us our desires. We wanted God out , he said , this is what happens when i lift my hand of protection. We have sang for yrs ,,,," God shed His grace on thee", now , we just want the grace , but not the presence or the accountability that goes with it. Actually , we dont even want the grace , because grace is getting something we dont deserve & Americans think they deserve everything , no waiting , no working for . We want what we want when we want it. Well , heres a wake up call america , you aint seen nothing yet & before its all said & done , you will all be shouting for God. Dont be surprised if he dont listen , if you only will hear what you want though.We not only reject his grace , but his mercy as well , because we have done nothing wrong to be forgiven of .

Men Fail - Woman Too - Both Spirits fail . this true - I am saddened by the sight of me & all those behind me, as I fan the mirror - I place the mirror on the ground & look to the sky , which way is up * In reflection, there is only vastness full of hope * it's so close I press my nose to it - another one * I am so heavily sad with the rage of this History - Tomarrow is filled with Love - For the name of God is a breath in the center of a few Harts - and what sweetness to the attentive ear * * * In my dream, I was awake - This is what I saw * Land, long & wide - I saw it's History of bubble's & pop's - & The time is comming, for that is what time does - I saw a mountain full of caves to hide in - I can not tell you more - look * look * To the Lord - High * so very High * He views, & calls to attaition — Time is comming, for that is what time does *** I know this is not proof, but i do hope you look for truth Eric *

To believe seems to be genetically ingrained into our brains. Whimsical posts doing provide an enlightenment.

As a Christian, I agree with you that the Church has not been doing its job in our society. We have been too busy living the American life and chasing after the same vain things that the rest of this dying world has been pursuing. This self-serving lukewarm attitude has neglected our responsibility not only to tell, but to also to demonstrate the reality of the love of God and the power of the resurrection of Jesus Christ who has made eternal life a reality for all who choose to believe and follow Him. That said, I do believe that America's problem is a spiritual one.

In our soul-searching over this tremendous loss in Connecticut, may we truly be willing to look at what has happened to our nation, once founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. Gun violence is merely a symptom of a far worse sickness that is afflicting us as a people. We live in a society that has determined that there should be no such thing as God-given truth. We have elevated a philosophy that everyone can do what is right in their own eyes and things will continue to go along well, and even get better. How could we ever have duped ourselves into thinking that the God of the Bible is no longer needed for us to function as a healthy society?

Since the 1960’s, we have pushed God out of our schools, out of our government, out of our stores, out of our public squares, out of our press, out of our marriages and out of our families. We have even pushed Him out of some of our churches. We have twisted the original intention of the separation of Church and State and purged His ways from being our guide for living. We have set ourselves on a mission to silence the God of the Bible, as we pursue our pleasures and vain pursuits of life. Our entertainment industry is now driven by sexual immorality and extreme violence and we flock to watch it, intoxicated by perversion. We are rapidly losing sight of what a healthy family looks like anymore. We try to remedy this by creating redefinitions of what a family is. Then we somehow are surprised when the offspring of our redefinitions turn on us in revenge. While shocked by the loss of these precious school children this past week, there seems to be little concern over the 3,000,000 innocent unborn children whose lives we passively allow to be snuffed out every year by our abortion industry. Since 1973, we now are missing 1/8 of our nation’s population due to our self-serving use of abortion, and yet, we shamelessly continue to push forward, even supporting the use of tax dollars to take more innocent lives. Because we, as a nation, have refused to stop this genocide, we now have the blood of all of these innocent ones on our hands!

Mere gun control is not the answer to cure the woes of America. We are sick and dying in spirit, soul and body. We must end our hostility toward the only One who has our remedy. We must admit that we are the problem. We have created the culture that is now breaking down. It is not God's fault. We have chosen to ignore His ways. Our condition is critical and it is high time for us to turn back to Him and His Truth. He, alone, offers what we truly need to heal our land.

So many hysterical posts are saying that God wasn't in the school and that's why this happened. Obviously that is a very ignorant thing to say.

I would like to ask these people that if we brought religion into the school what religion should we choose. Since so many seem to think that this country is Christian will that be the default choice? So we just ignore all other religions. Are we going to choose Catholicism or will the Protestants win this campaign? Will Judaism be in the running?

So that is really why we separate church and state and keep religion out of our schools. We are not a country of one faith and we certainly don't want to follow the example of the Taliban. I'm glad we can keep our spiritual choices at home.

It is the existence of the Biblical God that is increasingly being censored in our nation and from our schools. Our schools are still fine with presenting the beliefs of other religions. When it comes to the Biblical God, however, there is much censorship today. In the study of religions in elementary and high school social studies classes, now days, other religions, such as the Muslim faith, are actually encouraged and done in great detail. If you challenge that trend, you will be met with accusations of intolerance. On the other-hand, any concentration on Biblical beliefs, that accurately presents the Biblical doctrines of Christianity, will be met with opposition and threats of lawsuits. The hallways of our schools can be lined with artwork about other religions, but don't you dare put up a picture of Jesus teaching the Sermon on the Mount. We desperately need the Sermon on the Mount in our troubled schools today!

What is being stolen from America? What has been robbed is the conscious reality of the fact that "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth". We have been gradually and intentionally persuaded to believe that there is no God before whom we are accountable. Our universities, that once used the Bible as a foundational education tool, now aggressively push out any suggestion that God is our Creator and instead, push a gospel of human supremacy and evolution, saying that what we see created itself. We have left our children with no foundation of faith and no God-given moral compass to build their lives upon. Everyone is left to do what is right in their own eyes and create the god of their own design. In essence, we have become God, we have become our own final authority.

So how have we dealt with this vacuum of God-consciousness and turning away from God-given moral guidance? We are replacing it with laws that we devise - lots and lots and lots of laws. As the laws build up, the curse of that legal mountain becomes more and more crushing upon us. We are cursing ourselves, because we have refused to simply believe in the One who has created us to experience the freedom of living in His love - the reason for which He created us. Instead of living by His inner moral compass in our daily lives, we have decided to submit to a far less capable master - ourselves.

It isn’t about one religion it’s about one God and the belief in one’s soul, as we change from human to sprit, and embrace the light! From death we raise again better then we once were, death as sad as it may be, is like being born again! Until you’re filled with the spirit one will always be on the outside looking in

@shinelight

Our universities, that once used the Bible as a foundational education tool, now aggressively push out any suggestion that God is our Creator and instead, push a gospel of human supremacy and evolution, saying that what we see created itself.

Interesting. I first learned about the Theory of Evolution in my 9th grade biology class - in a private Catholic high school founded by Xaverian monks.

speaking of evolution roman 1:23 says

And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an
image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and
creeping things.
Romans 1 deals with God the creator & how we attribute creation to other gods , or the origin of man to evolving from some slime or amoeba to a creeping thing that 1 day crawled , slithered out of the water & then grew legs.

I was listening to NPR today. They had people who either suffer from mental illness or have children who are mentally ill. I believe we as a society focus too much on the mental part and not the illness. If a person has cancer or diabetes that is socially acceptable but mental illness is something that is hidden and something of which to be ashamed. I believe there is no such thing as normal. Every person in the world has some sort of personality defect, that would be feared or unacceptable, in another culture.

I have suffered from depression since I can remember. I was finally diagnosed with the "disease" after my husband died at the age of 44. I was diagnosed with "clinical depression. I was given antidepressants, which worked eventually but, then another "crisis" seemed, to knock me back, into the dark abyss. Luckily, I had professional help and therapy; a supportive group of family and friends. I was able to research depression and realized, it is very common.

About six years after my husband passed away, I began dating an old friend. He was a graduate of Annapolis and a fighter pilot in Viet Nam. When I told him I was taking anti-depressants, he said, he did not know if he could be with someone who needed to be medication, for the rest of my life! My point of telling this is, here his a supposedly educated, confident individual, who was very ignorant about mental illness. So my belief is everyone needs to be educated on mental illness, just as thay are about diabetes or cancer. There should be races for the cure for mental illness, just as there is support for other diseases. Instead, mental illness is hidden and misunderstood.

Since I had depression in childhood, research and studies should be finance to help those who feel alone and different. Mental health care should be provided for those who feel sad and overwhelmed and it should be brought out into the light.

I do not know what or if Adam Lanza was thinking but I wonder if he realized he was not alone, maybe he would have sought help. There is no shame in mental illness. The shame is the way people with mental illness is treated. I am grieving for all those little ones who lost their lives and there teachers, as well. Maybe if we made mental health issues as important as second amendment rights, this country would not need to worry about the horrendous act that occurred last Friday.

I wish you well.

There are people who really do believe that, and believe that it is good. They all worship at the Westboro babtist church.

Is this the same God that told Noah to get on a boat with some friends and animals and then proceeded to flood the earth and murder everyone, men, women and children that were not on the boat? and remember, the Bible was written some 800 to 1000 years after this guy was dead so just how accurate can it be?

Christens aren’t psychopaths as Hollywood would have one believe with shows like chainsaw massacre or other horror type shows with an exception jones town and a couple other wack jobs giving us a bad rap! Just shows how easy it is for men without a firm footing can be so wrong, as the war on God continues, without God neither would have a belief!

cutmeloose: ....that YOU know of.... You forgot the Crusades, the Spanish Inqusition, Salem Witch Trials, a millenia of female hatred and subjugation..... Spare me your religion, please.

Obviously, you haven't been to school in some time. First, no one has ever banned the Pledge of Allegiance from public schools and you would be hard pressed to find one where it isn't recited daily. Secondly, no one has "kicked God out of the classroom." Students are free to pray whenever they feel the need - before and after school, between classes or at their desks. I suspect there's a lot praying going in schools especially before a test. Students also can form after-schools Bible clubs (or any other religion).

What is not permitted, is for teachers or administrators to lead students in prayer. That's so your child isn't subjected to a prayer that isn't in keeping with your individual beliefs.

As for you description of the way students dress, well, maybe that's just your own imagination. Clean it up.

nell: You mean they have a choice? What a concept! That's going to foul a few agenda's. Not to worry, this monster could have performed the same horrific act with a plastic fork - no, really. God bless those children and their protectors.

Nelly,

As long as there are tests, there will be prayer in school. But the school you are talking about is a parochial school that was frozen in time in 1960.

I too am 70 and have made the same observations

Firecamp, I'm just about 9 or 10 months behind you, and I really don't like your g-d, and what you think he/she/it stands for. You are stuck in the warped memories of what wasn't. Open your eyes and live what's left of your time and stop hating things you don't understand.

I've seen this claim all over the net, and I challenge anyone to name one public school in America where they have stopped saying the Pledge.

When reality doesn't fit your agenda, make a wild claim, when claim is refuted then make another.

He was busy answering the prayers for a local football team to win.

It is important to remember that when Mike Huckabee appears and opens his mouth nowadays, he is a paid entertainer. When an entertainer stinks, you boo them off the stage. Get that enormous cane and pull them off stage. This is a connection people cannot make. Let's treat him like a washed-up D-movie actor and make him do discount phone company commercials.

Even Satan believes in God! Misconception God doesn’t kill but he can save, he can even save your soul it’s not too late, you may not be alive tomorrow but you are today, this moment! Only you can save yourself because our days are numbered how you treat your fellow man will be the true test if you are truly of God! And if not, you had today to think about it!

It was not an assault rifle. It was a semi auto rifle with a .223 round. Only one bullet comes out per pull of the trigger It does not fire 3 round bursts or lay down a stream of bullets like true military assault rifles. Even the ammo is de-tuned compared to military ammo. The hunting rifle he tried to get would have been more devastating per shot with the .30 ammo. It would have also been semi-auto 1 shot per pull. A shot gun would have been even more gruesome and just as effective.

The young man had to kill his mother to get the guns! If he was taught to honor and obey his mother and Father we wouldn’t be disusing his actions and 26 individuals would be alive today!

For the unreligious it’s one of the Ten Commandments

cutmeloose: NEWS FLASH: the killer was mentally ill. I would not have mattered what he was taught. YOU need to learn about mental illness instead of thumping that bible. Education is a GOOD thing. All I hear from you so called "christians" is this: MY way or the highway. It is easier to hate than to understand, isn't it. I have taken the higher road, to understand. that doesn't mean I agree in any way what this killer did, but I understand that god has nothing to do with it.

You are correct , mental illness is every bit as real as cancer & sometimes , every bit as fatal . As for saying God had nothing to do with it , your wrong , God will squeeze into every situation or circumstance he is invited into , just as evil will.

You are then free to form your own theocracy where your version of Christianity is worshiped according to your interpretation.

We, however, prefer to live in a democratic republic where the 1st Amendment of the Constitution - the law of the land - allows us to worship any version of deity or deities we like and even - gasp! - not worship, a place where we can go to public school and not be subjected to religious indoctrination of any persuasion. A place where a Buddhist, a Catholic, a Hindu, a Wiccan, an atheist and a Lutheran can hang out together without fearing retribution for their beliefs.

NHS: I'm not sure what your God thinks of your 'blame game', but 'liberals' are the one's that came up with the concept of "Freedom of Religion". I believe religion has provided comfort and relief to billions of people throughout history, and should be recognized and applauded for that function. Religion has killed many millions in the bargain.

I'm agnostic - in that I can neither prove nor disprove the existence of a superior entity. I have no interest whatever in promoting or insulting that or any other belief people choose to hold. If I were God, I'd be qualified to counsel on the subject. I'm not.

Actually, SDN, your statement about liberals creating freedom of religion needs refinement. Look up Classic liberalism versus modern social liberalism. Classic liberalism is the term used to describe our founding father's ideas, to be sure. But classic liberalism is quite different from the brand of social liberalism we follow today. Businessmen, capitalists, entrepreneurs, protestant christians, abolitionists, and limited government libertarians--people who are labelled conservative today--were the core of the original classical liberal ideology. Why? Because it believed in the principle of limited government so as to enhance the freedom of the the individual, "free market", "freemen (release of slaves)" "Freedom of religion"--etc.

The social progressivism of today is quite the opposite, in that it promotes the idea of the society over the individual, a powerful central government, and regulated and not very free market, confiscation of individual wealth and forced redistribution, and usually results in government control over religion wherever it is purely practiced---as in communism.

I'm reading a lot of "We need to go back to the good ol' days" here. Whatever your beliefs, that's not going to happen.

LISA lotsa numbers: You need to read more! Your idea of progressives today is offensive. On the other hand, we absolutely need stronger government to shake off corporate corruption everywhere in government.

We need aggressive regulations to protect our environment, air, water, and food supply against corporations, especially Dirty Energy and fracking. Our planet is small, our resources almost gone, and there are too many people to withstand continuing corporate waste & irresponsibility.

Having the wealthiest pay their fair share in taxes is in no way "forced redistribution" or "confiscation of individual wealth." It's shared sacrifice for two of the longest wars in American history that were not put in the Federal budget before 2009. It is not communism in any way, shape, or form.

If Obama had been president in the 1980s, he would've been called a moderate Republican. In fact, the nation has made a hard turn to the right because of the Koch brothers and their conservative think tank, the Heritage Foundation--and the fact all simplex media is owned by 6 giant corporations. They feed you the news they see fit, and unless you read a lot, you buy it hook, line, and sinker.

By your comment I can tell you are a true believer in whatever the corporate agenda wants you to believe. WIth your poisonous political beliefs, I hope you don't call yourself a Christian. Jesus was a communist, you know.

Not only that, but the real distribution of wealth has been taking place over the last few decades as corporations have been pocketing all the profits from increased productivity instead of sharing them with their employees. This redistribution of wealth needs to be reversed.

"We need to have discipline and consequences back at the hands of parents"

When was discipline taken away, that is just an excuse for parents whose only mean of discipline is beating the @!$%# out of their children. If you can't discipline or raise your children without beating them then you are unfit as a parent.

That's nice NHSmither, except for one thing.... Gods are imaginary.