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Newtown Bee via EPA file
A Connecticut State Police officer runs with a shotgun following the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn.
Police radio traffic from the Newtown school shooting shows emergency responders initially thought there might be two gunmen on the loose and were not aware of the extent of the carnage inside Sandy Hook Elementary School.
But the scope of the tragedy became more evident minute by minute, until authorities at the scene were heard asking for more help: “Call for everything” and “Do you know if anyone brought a mass casualty kit?”
Then, an hour after the first call, the horror of the crime was laid bare as an officer at the scene spoke of “victims” in a closet.
“There’s a teacher and 18 kids there,” he said in a grim voice.
The communications were not officially released, but were posted on YouTube by a scanner monitor and authenticated by police.
Some of the dialogue is encrypted or garbled, but the transmissions that can be heard – with the sound of sirens blaring in the background — provide a glimpse of how Friday’s massacre unfolded through the eyes of police and paramedics.
The recordings begin at 9:35 a.m. with a dispatcher calmly reporting a 911 call about “somebody shooting in the building,” followed two minutes later by the chilling update that a caller was “continuing to hear what he believes to be gunfire.”
One dispatcher notifies responding officers that a teacher reported seeing “two shooters, running past the gym.”
“Make sure you have your vests on,” a voice cautions officers in the early minutes.
There was, of course, just one gunman, as authorities later learned – Adam Lanza, 20, who used a rifle to kill 20 children ages 6 and 7 and six school staffers before committing suicide.
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A nation mourns after the second deadliest school shooting in U.S. history at Sandy Hook Elementary, which left 20 children and six staff members dead.
The radio transmissions suggest police and paramedics had no idea of the scope of the tragedy as they raced toward Sandy Hook.
“I will need two ambulances,” one dispatcher says five minutes after the initial report.
Three minutes later came the first hint of casualties, a person in Room 1 with a “wound to a foot.”
Another three minutes and dispatchers got their first sign the toll could grow: “We’ve got an injured person in room Number 9 with numerous gunshot wounds.”
At 9:49 a.m., an officer described what may have been Lanza shooting himself with one of his handguns as cops swarmed the building.
“Shots were fired about three minutes ago,” the officer said. “Quiet at the time.”
Four minutes later came word that Lanza was dead.
“One suspect down. The building has now been cleared,” a voice said. Then, a cataloguing of Lanza’s arsenal: “Multiple weapons, including one rifle and handguns.”
It had been a half hour since the killer blasted his way into the hilltop school that housed 600 students in kindergarten through fourth grade.
There had been no mention on open channels of how many people had died. But at 10 a.m., there was a frantic call, in police lingo, for ambulances.
“We need buses here. ASAP,” said someone at the scene.
“Send the ambulance right up to me … Get the bus! Get the bus!”
Moments later, came this advisory: “You might want to see if the surrounding towns can send EMS personnel. We’re running out real quick.”
Another minute and it was becoming clear that Newtown was dealing with a tragedy of unprecedented proportions.
“Call for everything,” said the voice on the radio.
That gave way to radio chatter about logistics – the creation of a triage center and staging area where panicked parents could be reunited with children who survived.
There was talk of four children who had fled the campus after the shooting and were being brought back as police tried to account for every student.
Then came the horrifying revelation about victims in a closet, and a directive that suggested police were not expecting to find many survivors among the victims:
“Hold all other ambulances.”
Daniel Barden, 7, had said he wanted to be a firefighter when he grew up. NBC's Brian Williams reports.
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For teachers, classroom security comes to the fore
Leave a Comment:
Ever hear of "fog of war"?
just in: lanza was being treated with the drug FANAPT, one of the most powerful anti psychotic drugs on the market, Mother told doctor it no longer controlled him, she was advised to put him in a mental hospital for his and her safety; he found out, he killed her and then went on a psychotic killing spree, information slipped out by accident from one of the police investigators.
Saxon, do you have a source for that. or did you make it up?
saxon what is your source of this info ??
The day before the shootings, Vanda Pharmaceuticals, maker of Fanapt anti-schizophrenia drug that Adam Lanza was prescribed, received negative opinions from the European Medicine Agency, saying that the drug caused significant delusional behavior.
Warren and Rick 881466, I believe saxon's source is Business Insider magazine Press Release from Dec 18, retrieved Dec 19. Please look it up for yourself.
Enough you fools! There has been no official report of what, if any, medication Adam Lanza may have been taking, nor anything about any supposed conversation between his mother and a doctor. None. Stop making sheeet up.
New York Magazine, Business Insider website, Investor News, and Daily Paul website all report Adam Lanza's uncle as saying he was taking Fanapt. I guess they're all fools, too, Rick?
The Antipsychotic Prescribed To Adam Lanza Has A Troubled History All Its Own
businessinsider.com/adam-lanza-taking-antipsychotic-fanapt-2012-12
I guess I was right when I figured he was on some kind of meds. Experienced the same problem with my daughter. She was put on all kind of meds when she was a kid and became very violent. After we took her off them, she didn't display any violence and hasn't since. People need to steer clear of the meds that are being pushed on kids for mental health issues. Most of them are not meant for kids and these moronic doctors are still prescribing them. I would bet my last dollar that all these mass killers were medicated to the hilt and that was the reason they went off the deep end.
Common thread with all these mass shootings are
MIND CONTROL DRUGS
Facts given to you everyday on TV
may cause suicidal and hostile (homicidal rage) thoughts
DR RON PAUL
A Culture of Violence
American now suffers from a culture of violence. It’s
easy to reject the initiation of violence against one’s neighbor but it’s
ironic that the people arbitrarily and freely anoint government officials with
monopoly power to initiate violence against the American people—practically at
will.
Because it’s the government that initiates force, most
people accept it as being legitimate. Those who exert the force have no sense
of guilt. It is believed by too many that governments are morally justified in
initiating force supposedly to “do good.” They incorrectly believe that this
authority has come from the “consent of the people.” The minority, or victims
of government violence never consented to suffer the abuse of government
mandates, even when dictated by the majority. Victims of TSA excesses never
consented to this abuse.
This attitude has given us a policy of initiating war to
“do good,” as well. It is claimed that war, to prevent war for noble purposes,
is justified. This is similar to what we were once told that: “destroying a
village to save a village” was justified. It was said by a US Secretary of
State that the loss of 500,000 Iraqis, mostly children, in the 1990s, as a
result of American bombs and sanctions, was “worth it” to achieve the “good” we
brought to the Iraqi people. And look at the mess that Iraq is in today.
Government use of force to mold social and economic
behavior at home and abroad has justified individuals using force on their own
terms. The fact that violence by government is seen as morally justified, is
the reason why violence will increase when the big financial crisis hits and
becomes a political crisis as well.
First, we recognize that individuals shouldn’t initiate
violence, then we give the authority to government. Eventually, the immoral use
of government violence, when things goes badly, will be used to justify an
individual’s “right” to do the same thing. Neither the government nor
individuals have the moral right to initiate violence against another yet we
are moving toward the day when both will claim this authority. If this cycle is
not reversed society will break down.
When needs are pressing, conditions deteriorate and
rights become relative to the demands and the whims of the majority. It’s then
not a great leap for individuals to take it upon themselves to use violence to
get what they claim is theirs. As the economy deteriorates and the wealth
discrepancies increase—as are already occurring— violence increases as those in
need take it in their own hands to get what they believe is theirs. They will
not wait for a government rescue program.
When government officials wield power over others to bail
out the special interests, even with disastrous results to the average citizen,
they feel no guilt for the harm they do. Those who take us into undeclared wars
with many casualties resulting, never lose sleep over the death and destruction
their bad decisions caused. They are convinced that what they do is morally
justified, and the fact that many suffer just can’t be helped.
When the street criminals do the same thing, they too
have no remorse, believing they are only taking what is rightfully theirs. All
moral standards become relative. Whether it’s bailouts, privileges, government
subsidies or benefits for some from inflating a currency, it’s all part of a
process justified by a philosophy of forced redistribution of wealth. Violence,
or a threat of such, is the instrument required and unfortunately is of little
concern of most members of Congress.
Some argue it’s only a matter of “fairness” that those in
need are cared for. There are two problems with this. First, the principle is
used to provide a greater amount of benefits to the rich than the poor. Second,
no one seems to be concerned about whether or not it’s fair to those who end up
paying for the benefits. The costs are usually placed on the backs of the
middle class and are hidden from the public eye. Too many people believe
government handouts are free, like printing money out of thin air, and there is
no cost. That deception is coming to an end. The bills are coming due and
that’s what the economic slowdown is all about.
Sadly, we have become accustomed to living with the
illegitimate use of force by government. It is the tool for telling the people
how to live, what to eat and drink, what to read and how to spend their money.
To develop a truly free society, the issue of initiating
force must be understood and rejected. Granting to government even a small
amount of force is a dangerous concession.
CHRISTMAS PAST
Scrooge had to ponder his life as should we all
True indeed, Bruce. This is the main reason why "lockdown" does not work and becomes fish in a barrel. The responders have to respond to the call while, at the same time, mass confusion sets in at the call center. Then they have to respond to the scene. Then they have to enter the building, provided they don't get ambushed or run straight into booby-traps. That's one hell of a lot of time for anyone, regardless of proficiency, if they have guns and ammo.
Schools need an intruder plan that makes sense. You need staffers trained in tactical shooting able to respond quickly to the most likely entry points for an intruder. You need drills that train people on getting out of the building quickly, in small organized groups. You need to make everyone familiar with the quickest way out, depending on their location in the building. Everyone must also know where the maintainance, service, and locker room doors are because these are the doors least likely to come under attack. Drills need to be an all-day event, no less than twice a month; it's the only way everyone can get the hands-on experience they need. I believe that if you can train a kid to be a crossing guard, you can train him to save his own life and to be part of a unit where everyone gets out alive.
There's no doubt in my mind that if Newtown had an intruder plan based on reality that Lanza would have been stopped in his tracks, with minimum deaths and injuries.
I've never understood the logic in packing a bunch of children into a box and giving them only one way out. Unfortunately, that is also the same way someone with harm in mind is going to come in. No more rooms without access to the exterior of the building. Would you care to try to escape from a shooter with a rapid-fire weapon standing in the only door? One door in and two doors out? For God's sake, even friggin' airplanes have emergency exits!!! Replace two of those windows with two secured doors. Put an emergency "pop" switch either on the teachers desk or clipped to their clothing (belt?) and at activation both doors automatically open a minimum of 120 degrees. Again, these are for emergency use only, not for a shortcut to the playground or airflow on hot days. Activation results in emergency response team dispatch, much like pulling the fire alarm should bring the big red trucks, not as just an in-school alarm.
Magic Rat. Our company www.Lynxguide.com installed a panic button system in 450+ schools in a County in PA after the Amish School House Shooting for life threatening situtations that went straight to the County Dispatch. It is a great system, but it took the County Commissioner to stand up say he would do it and get on with it. It seems to me half the problem is no one is willing to just make a descision the other half don't know what solutions are out there.
It wasn't Adam Lanza's uncle. It was a con-man...an imposter. We've seen the media falling for a lot of those folks with this story because LE themselves aren't revealing much until they finish their investigation. Makes the media desperate to believe without properly fact checking.
EASY
CHOICE
FOR ME
Your AR-15
or
MY CHILD.
Clearly...Mental Help is neded for lot of the Viners who pick a gun over a massacre.
More children have already died due to gun violence SINCE the massacre than died that day. We are in a tragic situation of ever-increasing proportions and unless something is done soon, we are going to be an entire nation suffering from PTSD.
Biden in '08
http://washingtonexaminer.com/biden-2008-if-obama-tries-to-fool-with-my-beretta-hes-got-a-problem/article/2516400#.UNH1zG_AexU
These children and their teachers were killed within TWO MINUTES. According to a witness, this killer got off over 100 shots during that short time. We desperately need reasonable gun laws banning these military style weapons.
The majority of Americans spoke out during the last election, and even though the NRA spent MILLIONS of dollars trying to oust the President, they could not do it. The NRA spent MILLIONS of dollars backing and bribing GOP and Tea Party politicians trying to swing the election.
Didn't work this time.
Sorry, NRA, your glory days are over.
You may still bribe some politicans, and churn out your propaganda to irrational and gullible gun owners, but you or your supporters cannot bully us anymore.
I have owned a gun and enjoy target shooting, but I don't need or want an assault weapon. Only the police and military need those. (Yes, I know ... we should all be living in fear of what would happen if the government turned on us, etc. etc.)
Go ahead, NRA, and whip your supporters into a frenzy while you publicly state your "concern and condolences" to the families of the dead.
The blood is red on your hands.
Hello Saxon and yet Big Pharma will be let off the hook, just like Monsanto corporation gets away with poisoning the people with their known GMO pestilence the pharmaceutical corporations will get away with their poisoning of our children and adults. It seems like the common denominator in these multiple shootings is that the shooters were contaminated on legal pathogenic drugs.
Apparently, we have a security emergency. How did we handle it after 9/11? We put ARMED air marshalls on every plane. Armed guards and concealed carrying teachers and staff (obviously trained) allowed nationwide would be the fastest deterrant, in the short term. These coward mass shooters always go for the softest target.
Regardless of what drugs the shooter may or may not have been prescribed, the mother had a responsibility to (1) not have guns in her home with a mentally unstable son and (2) if she absolutely MUST have guns, to keep them secure so that he was not able to harm her, himself or anyone else.
Rick and Warren, I live in So. California and heard the same thing Saxon did, reported on the radio.
silverton, all firearms are "military style weapons." Every style of hunting firearm has been used by the U.S. military at some point. The media's definition of an "assault weapon" would include my .50 cal muzzle loader. It was used by the military.
Looks like the original article "broke" the story before verifying the facts and everyone else jumped on the bandwagon. Here's the relevant paragraph regarding the medication story.
"An article published over the weekend by the New York Daily News reportedly cited Adam Lanza’s uncle as saying the shooter was prescribed an antipsychotic called Fanapt, a drug with documented links to causing impulse-control disorder and major depression in some users, as well as other side-effects. By Tuesday, though, the Daily News’ quote had been scrubbed from the site and no verifiable source has been able to confirm that preliminary report."
Simple math:
Mentally Ill Patient + Antipsychotic Drugs + Access to Automatic Assault Weapons minus reasonable gun laws = DEATH OF INNOCENT PEOPLE
We have reasonable gun laws. In fact everything the shooter did was illegal.
Fact: stealing is illegal
Fact: breaking and entering is illegal
Fact: MURDER is illegal.
Oh and RI Mom I would gladly use my AR15 (if I had one) to protect YOUR child as well as my own. BTW he didn't use an AR-15.
[Diagnosis: Advanced senility, prognosis poor, recommendation retirement and adult supervision.]
Why has the media not ask one important question like what took the cops 10 plus minutes maybe as long as 20 minutes to get there? Granted is is a larger town but were all the cops accross town when this took place? Also when are they going to ask about the medication that is given to our children for any little thing. I thought it was bad when I grew up in the Ritalin days but that is nothing compared to what they will give a child these days.
About one in five children and adolescents has symptoms of a psychological
disorder, according to the United States Surgeon General. Equally worrying, both
the number of children diagnosed with a psychological disorder and the number
receiving medications (including stimulants, antidepressants, anticonvulsants,
and other medications) have risen dramatically in recent years. The medications
include stimulants for attention deficit-hyperactivity disorder (ADHD),
antidepressants, antipsychotics(psychotropic drugs), and mood stabilizers.
Many of these drugs come with black box warning labels and have not been tested on children
or even test when they mix them with other drugs. PhRMA kills more kids and adults with the drugs they
legally pedal while paying off our politcians and the FDA.
Heck even look how Merck lied to the public about Vioxx, which killed an uncle of mine. He had only been on it for about 3 months then went off it and was dead 6 months later. Studies show the effects from it lingers for years. Merck knew the problems with it but anything for a buck, and what the heck the FDA approved it.
Just think this was just an non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug, imagine what they don't say about the psychotropics they feed to the public.
I'm getting very tired of reading attempts by individuals who know better to take exception to the use of terms by others such as "semi-automatic" vs. "automatic" and "assault" weapon and "military style."
You folks know what you are doing, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves. You are dissembling. You are doing it deliberately and it is disgusting.
You all know that almost any semi-automatic rifle currently available in the United States -- including the AR-15 'Bushmaster' -- can be easily accessorized for less than $100 with an entirely ATF-legal screw-on trigger adapter to make it simulate fully automatic fire and perform in a nearly identical rate-of-fire to the military versions of those weapons.
If you are not one of the liars posting false information on these discussion threads, trying to distract others who don't know from the real threat which is already out there in private ownership in america ( 3-million AR-15 Bushmaster semi-automatic rifles already in private citizen's possession), ... then watch this short video and then tell me that it does not send a shiver up your spine knowing that any coo-coo-bird with a misdirected or delusional "cause", or desire to go out in a blaze of glory can own this sort of weaponry, if he manages to fly under the radar just long enough to pass a background check.
I'm a 59-year-old man who isn't spooked by much. But this scares the hell out of me, and I'm not too proud to say so:
http://www.gungarage.com/hellfire1.html
Is this what our revered Second Amendment has wrought upon our nation? Can this POSSIBLY be what the founders envisioned for our nation?
This has to change! Support the President and Vice-President in their efforts, and write to your own Congressional delegation to demand action. Every Senator and Congress-person has a messages box on their Congressional websites.
Do it now. Don't we owe it to our children?
So I asked my kids if they've been practicing any safety drills lately. They said yes, they have. Here it is: upon hearing a particular announcement, they lock the door, cover the windows in the door with a piece of paper, and stand in the corner so you can't see them from the door.
All my fears have been put to rest. They'll be saved by a piece of paper.
Time to start getting involved in school board and PTA meetings.
rodentwarrior - I'm a teacher in a small school in Wisconsin. We've actually been advised by the local PD to NOT involve students in lockdown drills, because most of the time, shooters are students or former students and if they know your procedure, they can use it against you. Teachers practice going through the motions when there are no students in the building, but no one except staff, police, and my immediate family know where I'm hiding my kids.
AviatorDave
Aviator Dave,' you make a valid point ... albeit cynically phrased.
Perhaps it's also time for Americans to behave like grownups and stop bitching and moaning about taxes, and actually fund our schools so that they can have money to pay for security?
The United States has nearly the lowest relative tax rates in the developed world, and yet all we do is complain while each year we ask our schools to do more with less, continually adding new mandates to what they must do in schools to take on responsibilities of raising our children (which is supposed to be our own responsibility as parents). And each year we give them less money per student to accomplish it all.
On top of that, then we pass legislation taking away the teacher's rights for collective bargaining (their only means of negotiating for a living wage and health benefits) and we do it almost entirely covertly, in a one-party highly partisan manner, behind the scenes like cockroaches hiding from the light.
Gosh, aren't we a dignified and commendable society? Is this "American Exceptional-ism" in action?
Well the rest of the developed world is shaking their collective heads in bewilderment and dismay at our demonstrated National lack of common sense, ... shaking their heads that is when they are not bowing them to grieve with us over our latest tragedies; tragedies which are of our own making.
Intense.
Every bank teller and lobby desk in every bank have a panic button to police. Why doesn't every classroom have a panic button and a lock down or lock out plan?
This is not fog of war. This is a fog of police unprepared for anything more than a routine DUI stop.
The reason the BATFE allows these is because they are a gimmick that is DANGEROUS to use and it is also not especially practical. The shysters who promote them can make them look pretty slick on a video, which no doubt they've had to do multiple takes of before they had a clip that would be passable for promotional use. There is a special way you have to hold the rifle so the recoil acts on the trigger though the lever, and it's very unnatural. Since it involves a very loose hold on the gun, any kind of real aiming or control is also nearly impossible. I have seen these advertised for over 20 years now, have never personally known anyone who has purchased one nor have I seen one in person. However, I have heard many stories out there from people who had more money than common sense that gave one of these a try for the fun of it. What I've heard is that you can usually get the rifle to do a double or triple, but that's about it. Anyone who can actually empty a magazine filled with twenty or thirty rounds in one fell swoop using one of these apparently has a special knack for it that most people never are able to master.
M16 rifles use what is known as an 'auto sear' that comes into play when the fire control selector is rotated into the 'auto' (M16, M16A1, M16A3, M4A1) or 'burst' (three round burst feature that replaced 'auto' setting on the M16A2, M16A4, and carbine M4). The function of the auto sear is to ensure that the rifle's bolt is truly locked into battery before the firing pin can be released. Naturally, AR-15 type rifles do not have an 'auto' or 'burst' setting (only 'safe' or 'fire') and hence no auto sear. Nor can one readily be installed, in most cases. The supposed 'drop in auto sear', or DIAS units offered for sale with claims that they were BATFE approved recently landed the proprietor who'd been selling them in federal prison after the BATFE inspectors showed up at his apartment...just SAYING something is legal doesn't necessarily make it so! Now, the M16/AR-15 type design uses what is known as a 'free floating' firing pin. It does not have a return spring that holds it back until the striker hits it. 5.56x45mm NATO cartridges universally use harder than normal primers that will not detonate if the firing pin 'taps' or 'brushes' them. Commercial .223 hunting rifle cartridges, more often than not, use standard rifle primers which feature much softer metal in their construction for greater sensitivity. What is known as a 'slam fire' when a sticking firing pin pops a primer and fires the rifle without a pull to the trigger but when the bolt is slamming forward can readily happen with most .223 ammunition out there. If you've rigged up some arrangement that simulated 'full auto', such as the recoil lever, a hand crank, or whatever, you have no safety afforded by an auto sear. If you get a slam fire while rattling off rounds and that slam fire happens before the cartridge is fully in the chamber and before the bolt head has fully rotated to the locked position, you no longer have a rifle, you've got a bomb! The usual result is a wrecked rifle, but the odds that the shooter will suffer some injury are pretty fair, too.
Thanks to "The Tigor" for a sensible explanation rather than trying to spread paranoia. It's pretty obvious the other writer doesn't have a clue.. Now, let's work on the REAL PROBLEM and get the crack-pots and criminals off the streets and increase school safety.
More Americans are killed by illegal immigrants than are killed by guns but you don't see any politicians speaking out to deport illegals to save American lives.
I find it ironic that millionaire politicians that can afford private security want everyone else to give up THEIR guns.
Toomany wakos,
You are so right, these people do not get it when it comes to guns, I went to highschool when you had your rifle during hunting season in you vehicle, I didn't take it into school and begin shooting my schoolmates. The real issue is the people who are doing this are all the same Psycotic. So why is it that they don't want to understand that we need to now have armed security in our nations schools and malls. We have them at arena's so why is a sport venue more important than our schools?
Well Robert that seems exactly what you are doing. Tigor explains what you spoke about very well, it is also called bump fire which is very inaccurate and dangerous.
Are you one of the millions of parents out there that would allow your child to take phycotropic drugs for something as minor as ADD (attention deficit disorder) because counseling will take to much time? PhRMA makes Billions per year pumping/posioning our children full of theses drugs everyyear. Only one has been approved for children and that is Prozac, which I may add should not be given to children. Oh but that is ok with you and many others I guess because those big black mean guns kill 1/1000 % less kids than the drugs do. You won'thear the media or your politian taking about these drugs because the companies pay them in advertising, campaign and kick backs everyyear. Can't bite the hand that feeds you
Some people tried on doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results. Albert Einstein was correct on that. People keep pounding on gun control, but in this instance, no amount of gun control would have stop this nutcase. If that school had an effective security in place, the carnage would have been a lot less that what it was. Let's not play politics here- with our children's safety. We need a security that is second to none at our schools now! The children need the best protection that we can provide.
Exactly G2020 after 9/11 we had marshalls with guns on planes and still do. Had there been real security at that school this may not have happened. I also want to add that if we would worry more about our citizens then other countries(middle east) we would have excess cash to take care of metally ill people instead of posioning them with things like Devil's Breath/Scopolamine.
The media continues to milk off this community's pain in order to maintain some ratings
“Violence and other potentially criminal behavior caused by prescription drugs are medicine’s best kept secret,” says Dr. David Healy, a world-renowned psychiatrist who has written extensively about the lack of data in evidence-based medicine, including in his latest book, Pharmageddon.
Healy says this is a global issue, with medical, legal, ethical, and profound public policy dimensions. “Never before in the fields of medicine and law have there been so many events with so much concealed data and so little focused expertise.”
Can prescription drugs cause you to kill someone? “Absolutely”, says Healy.
@jw101
Um, what? So all but 10k or so people in this country are killed every year, by illegal immigrants, not using firearms?
I'm not sure why some criticize the lock down procedure as if there's another fool proof plan. They can't really have a plan for every specific little threat, especially since as horrific as these situations are, they're still extremely rare. Not saying they shouldn't have plans but a general lockdown plan seems to make more sense than just sending everyone out of the building. How did these teachers know that in fact the shooter was in the school? More often schools go into lock down mode due to someone being spotted near a school. You obviously don't want to send kids outside if there's a shooter out there. So know you want the teacher to have to decide which emergency plan to use? The only thing mentioned above that was actually a reasonable suggestion is that schools have some sort of emergency exit from classrooms. Obviously that gives intruders other means to get in potentially as well though. I still don't like the idea of arming teachers. Is the gun going to be locked aware somewhere? Are they going to be carrying it on their person CCW. What if a child grabbed it? Having a police officer of sorts makes more sense, although obviously isn't necessarily budget friendly in a time where schools can't even afford to keep all their teachers on board.
I still think it's more of an issue of trying to keep weapons out of the hands of these people instead of just accepting this is going to happen and just arm everyone to the teeth. People seem to think we have such great gun laws, yet people with no experience with guns or the safe operation of them can just go out and buy one. You don't just walk in and get handed a drivers license, why should you just be able to get a gun? People can just legally go out and buy one from another person and have no background check. Remember for all of you crying your 2nd amendment right (although im not sure why since no one is suggesting banning guns and taking yours away) one of the first couple words say "well regulated." Doesn't seem very well regulated if you ask me. You'll never be able to prevent these things completely, but there has to be a better solution than to just have more guns out there. That's like trying to cure obesity by opening up more Burger Kings. Lets just ADD to the problem.
And forget the whole BS about criminals not following laws. By that ass backwards logic, we should have NO laws. All the bad people will do these things regardless and all good people will avoid doing bad things, right? Idiots. You can't stop them from getting firearms completely, but the fact a criminal can just go buy a gun in a private sale isn't actually doing anything to fix the problem.
I just wish the gun people (and im not anti guns by any means) would just stop BSing us and be honest. This has nothing to do with your 2nd amendment rights since they're not going anywhere. It just has to do with them wanting to not have added steps in getting the guns they WANT. This is an amendment that's existed for hundreds of years since people were using muzzle loaders. Things change, you need to evolve laws. I'm not saying to ban or not ban this or that, but lets be real, no one NEEDS an AR15 with a 30 round magazine. People would be fine with handguns or shotguns for protection and hunting rifles. This has nothing to do with your rights. It has to do with your WANTS. Rights are not the same as wants. It's your right to have a gun, in general, for hunting or protection. It's your WANT to have a giant arsenal. All the arguments against new gun laws are arguments against changing your ability to get what you want, there is no infringement upon your rights.
Not BS, not by a long shot. It's absolutely true. However, 'not following laws' is better known as breaking laws and this is why we have law enforcement officers, courts of law, and correctional systems.
'Obama Whistles Idiots Follow' wrote:
Wow!
'the TiGor wrote:
Which will discourage the shooter who sets out to kill, and who already intends to commit suicide after his rampage, ...how?
'Toomany Wackos' wrote:
You assert that those who are NOT recommending that we need MORE semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines, and are NOT saying that we'll only be safer when more people are packing ... are the ones who are clueless and paranoid?
'jw101' wrote:
Really? Did you set out to write 'the most ridiculous observation of the week', or did you just get lucky?
'taharrington' wrote:
I think we "get it" all too well. Just like 20 six and seven-year-old children and seven adults 'got it' last Friday in Newtown, Connecticut; and the 11,693 Americans killed last year by gun homicides 'got it.' How many more do you wish to 'get it'... before you think we will be adequately informed?
'fishman-1985527' wrote:
I repeat, ...which will discourage the shooter who sets out to kill, and who already intends to commit suicide after his rampage, ...how?
I take it back, 'jw101.' Yours is now only the 2nd most ridiculous statement of the week (sorry, at least you you tried, 'jw'). And this statement also moves to 1st-place for off-topic distraction.
'G2020' wrote:
"No amount of gun control"? Really? So ...you argue that the absence of any access to semi-automatic weapons, high-capacity magazines and unlimited quantities of ammunition would not have "stopped this nutcase" from taking semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines filled with ammunition into the elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut and murdering 20 six and seven year-old children and 6 adults with them? Is that your argument, Einstein?
'ProFreedom-5130956' wrote:
Right, it's always the media's fault for reporting the mass murders of our children, and reporting the human carnage of gun violence in America. So let's not report the death toll, or address the mass murder weapons or the human carnage they have wrought on our society, ...let's just rhetorically shoot the messenger, right? (pun intended)
'fishman'-1985527' wrote:
So, you argue that prescription drugs are the actual issue, not guns, because an Irish Psychiatrist asserts that drugs could be? Rather than discussing the mass-killing weapons and ammunition which were actually used to kill those 20 six and seven year-old children and six adults in the Connecticut elementary school, and the 11,693 Americans killed last year by gun homicides, ...you prefer to blame it on prescription drugs?
Wow, you are now tied for 1st-place with 'fishman-1985527' for off-topic distraction.
Others have said it far better than anything more that I can offer. Folks like you won't ever see the light, regardless of any facts presented to you. The very idea of an enlightened society without semi-automatic weapons and high-capacity magazines and unlimited quantities of ammunition -- even small arsenals -- in the hands of tens of millions of civilians is just too 'bright' for eyes accustomed to living in a dark world of their own personal fears, and insecurities.
Enlightenment is just too terrifying. No amount of annual human carnage by guns in America, even mass murders of children by guns in our schools will dissuade you from believing that guns are not a problem. Nay, you present arguments that "prescription drugs" are the real killers and "more guns" in more civilian hands are the real solution.
Well, logic usually does prove impotent for addressing those predisposed to believe nonsense, because nonsense is less frightening than reality. So I'll just let the words of another far more wise than I, be the final words to you all from me:
Think about it. If you had an autoloading rifle of some sort you were intending to use to commit a horrific crime you were planning and had reached the very ignorant conclusion that it just had to be 'full auto', you might order one of these. If you try it out first and discover you can't get it to work like you expected it to, what are you going to do about it? Probably grab the screwdriver again and take the thing back off. But not everyone plans things that rationally. Sometimes they just think about it a bit and don't do any of the requisite 'legwork' to ensure any kind of success before they just go do it. In which case, they'll be struggling throughout their rampage with a rifle that isn't functioning well and one that could very possibly suffer a catastrophic failure during the course of committing the crime. It might not necessarily injure the rampaging gunman so much as to put him out of action, but it will most likely wreck the rifle and mangle the magazine and the remaining cartridges held within. Rampage over.
There's a reason the US Treasury Department doesn't take these seriously, while if you merely are found to have an auto sear or a M16 hammer (shaped slightly differently than that of an autoloader AR-15 type rifle) or fire control lever (with the correct notch for the 'auto' or 'burst' setting) they can and often will nail you for constructively possessing an unregistered machine gun. Trust me, if these were even half as effective as they're supposed to be, it would be a felony to even have one sealed in a plastic baggie, let alone mounted on the trigger guard of a rifle.
This is shocking! "...emergency responders...were in the dark about the extent of the carnage". How would they know until they got there?!
I agree, everyone who knew the "extent of the carnage" WAS DEAD!!! anyone who was able to call 911 and report shots fired was hold up somewhere else in the building AWAY FROM THE SHOOTER or not in an area to confirm the devestation that was actually unfolding!!!
Why isn't anyone talking about how long it took cops to arrive at the scene? Reports vary from between TWENTY MINUTES (CNN) to ten minutes (judging by the tapes revealed today. That's a helluva long time.
They were all dead in 2 minutes. What difference did it make how long the cops took to get there?
Because the guy with the gun had enough ammo and more targets to shoot longer than 2 minutes.
Not surprising as the only one who could have known the extent of what was going on was the monster himself.
Really...after 3 min they didn't know the facts. This story is a joke. The whole story covers 6 min. How would a dispatcher know any facts in 6 min. It was the media who printed anything someone said as fact. The media these days are sad.
I was watching NBC as the story unfolded, and I don't remember a crisis where the misinformation was so bad. The reporters were constantly fixing what was being reported. I don't think NBC was making stuff up, but somewhere in the backchain of info there were serious problems. The topper was finding out, after several days, that there were two surviving victims instead of one. Really, this stream of misinformation is a story in itself, and I'd think (hope) that NBC would be interested in investigating what was going on. (There was one little girl who told her story with a remarkable attention to fact and accuracy. NBC should offer that kid a full journalism scholarship right now.)
The person reporting two shooters running "past the gym".....has he or she been interviewed, and how has this discrepancy been resolved or settled? What about the footage from a sky chopper showing police searching adjacent woods? What of the man apparently arrested and cuffed outside the building, who was he, why was he arrested, and how was he cleared?
These are not fanciful, nor the machinations of a fantastic flight from reality, but considering how much misinformation was reported, deserved to be reviewed and addressed, in my opinion.
Lastly, I agree with MelJM, above, that a real topper was the reporting of a second survivor, where one had been reported by police and the media for days.
Please learn to read. I am unaware of any instance where reports were characterized as "fact". Responsible journalists (and I include NBC among them) were quoting witnesses and officials whose descriptions were sometimes hastily surmised or just plain, on further examination, erroneous. It is the responsibility of a journalist to accurately report what he is witnessing and, where he has to rely on the reports of others, be certain that they are correctly quoted. In an instance where there is bound to be chaos (and who could deny that this was such an instance) the "facts" are evolving almost minute by minute. Where there is a fast-breaking story, it would by incredible if the first reports were never later revised in the light of new information.
So, if you are among the first reporters at the scene, what do you do? To simply sit on the story until all of the "facts" are gathered and sorted would leave your report hopelessly outdated. The correct thing to do is report what you see and hear, correctly attributing your sources, and prepare to add or delete as further information comes to you.
When you read a report about anything and you come across quotation marks, remember that what is being quoted is not necessarily endorsed or subscribed to by the reporter - it is no more than the opinions/thoughts/expressions of he who is being quoted and may turn out to be factually wrong. If he was being quoted correctly, that doesn't make the reporter inept.
The media are in a forked stick here. Everyone is pressing them for information instantly. If they sit on the story until the facts are absolutely clear, people will scream 'coverup.' If they give out information immediately (the only stuff they have) that has to be changed later, as better information becomes available, everyone will scream, 'They lied to us."
cf: Benghazi; Susan Rice
publia...you defend the media whereas I blame the media. The media coverage of this is only going to push the next crazy to go out bigger and kill more people..the media makes them glorified killers so to speak.
No, what is really sad, are you NRA-KOOL-AID sippers posting BS That is what is sad!
Who said I support the NRA? Unlike Liberals, not all Republicans follow the party line. If Obama said the world was flat, 52% of Liberals would agree
TruthBeTold1226-6707403
No, what is really sad, are you NRA-KOOL-AID sippers posting BS That is what is sad!
So why is it that you anti NRA people seem to feel that they had somthing to do with this?
explain that point!!!
WHAT THE NRA CAME AND GAVE THAT SCUM BAG A GUN AND ALL OF THE AMMO????
You are the one that is sipping Koolaid, and by the way what the F does coolaid have to do with anything you moron?
You think banning guns are going to handle everything? 1929 man used a stick of dynomite to kill kids in a Dakota school.
1952 German boy kills students with a Knife in a class after he locked the door of the class.
You cannot blame the weapon it takes a person to shoot.
If you ban the weapon the next Psycopath will find somthing else to kill with,point in part Timothy McVey 168 dead 19 of them children under 5 years old, so your mantality is to ban rental trucks and ban ferlizer as well?
Stop placing fingers on everything your agenda is you want the government to control your life and everyone elses.
Lobby for armed guards in schools and upgraded security in them as well.
You do realize that your attempt to lable all liberals as the same is disproven in your post...
@taharrington, After the OK City attack on the Murrah Building, procedures were changed to control access to large quantities of fertilizer. If you aren't a farmer it isn't easy to get enough fertilizer to make such a massive diesel fertilizer bomb now. You prove the point that sometimes, it is the weapon that is the problem. The two handguns the nut carried in this slaughter could have resulted in the same number of casualties but it would have taken longer. The extra time may given first responders a chance to intervene...
I would guess that the reason for this report is the magnitude of the carnage. It is my opinion that normally this would be a non-story because early on in any police action, the police are unaware of the magnitude of the problem.
Cops 99.99% of the time arrive late. It's just a fact. Nothing but a posted guard at the school with the proper self-defense weapons would have prevented this.
I agree Buddy........the US has stopped gun carriers onto airplanes....it can be done at schools and other events also. Gun control will only affect the law abiding citizens of this country. The black market for gun running will allow kooks to get the guns if they want them.
I'm sure if the cops knew in advance of the crime they would be there 100% of the time to stop it.
Exactly...............
gm Okeeboy
Yep. And if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.
Well, I assumed it was sarcasm, or at least irony.
Why not train and arm the principal and some office staff? Why not allow teachers with CC to have access to a weapons locker?
Mass killers prefer "Weapons Free" zones. We must get rid of them.
Really? Been in today's high schools? Several floors, different wings. You think this type of person is going to worry about coming through the main entrance when there are many other ways to get in, regardless of if they are locked.
Heavy winter clothing can easily conceal a M4 carbine. Does the guard confront every student as if they are armed? Most likely he would have been the first victim. School resource officers aren't always at the main door in any case.
In the few minutes it would have taken to response, the damage would have been massive. It's simply a fact of life. Nothing was going to stop it totally except a massive dose of good luck.
Train teacher? Get real. The time to properly train someone to confront and successfully defend this type of intruder goes well beyond a day or two at the range. So a teacher hears of the incident, goes to the locker, tries to determine where the intruder is at the moment, get there and engage him or her while hundreds of screaming kids are running all over the place.
Sorry, but their aren't any easy answers to this.
Career unionized employees... of course they'll be late!
Well I suppose if I knew what the Lottery numbers were going to be on Sunday morning I would buy different numbers on Saturday night.
It's simply a matter of the cops not knowing anything other than what is being reported to the dispatcher at the moment.
MSNBC, why are you trying to sensationalize this by putting up a Breaking News banner like you discovered they did something wrong?
Shame on the editor and Tracy Connor for even writing this story.
I do not get the impression that they are trying to point fingers here. I get the feeling that they are simply relaying information as it is becoming available. It is breaking news because this is new to the public.
Do you think any of us expected the police to simply run blindly into the building and instantly know everything? This is a long way from the absolutely embarrassing initial response to the Columbine killings...
There was no way any of the first responders could have known what they were walking in to or for the dispatchers to get a real sense of the situation....I am the wife of a volunteer fireman and and EMT, there is NO WAY to know what the situation truly is til you are actually on the scene. These folks could not have predicted the nightmare they were about to face. God Bless those first responders.
Agree....there is no way anyone could have known. The news agencys were trying to get the news on first and rushed the news out without getting the facts. That is journalism these days. And do they really need to put all the bloody details out there?????? Anything for ratings!
That's a big part of why I say the people inside the building need to not only be able to help themselves, but be trained to. The responders don't know what they're walking into until they get there; until they do get there, the length of response time is 100% in the shooter's favor. Then there's the possibility of ambushes by multiple shooters or booby traps at the main entrances. A responder can not help anyone if the bad guy kills him or incapcitates him. That's why people need to be able to rescue themselves or make their rescue as easy as possible for responders.
You don't have to be a spouse of a first responder to know that this story is garbage. No sxxt they didn't know the extent of it. Shame not for the story itself, but more so for posting a "banner" across the front page... breaking news my axx.
4 Dead in Ohio.
Yes, lets turn in all our firearms. People who own them are the criminals...even the people involved in the 1970 Kent State massacre.
A De Facto government has indeed become tyrannical, the day they step down and the loud wheels of crime stop turning is the day we can disarm.
why did they say he had a rifle on him, then later state the rifle was in the back of the car and he had two 9mm handguns on him, then go back to the rifle was on him. talk about
collusionconfusion.which report was right, anyway? j/w.
He had the rifle on him.
@banUFOs
That's what I wonder - there was an interview with one of the cops who said the rifle stayed in the trunk of his car, but he said 4 handguns were used. Then the medical examiner said a rifle was used. Also there was talk about a shotgun that was left in the trunk and a total of 5 firearms available to the gunman.
Oh yeah. It was in his car, he went in, shot a couple of folks, then realized why do I want to use the piddly 9mms, ran back to the car, grabbed the rifle, shot up the place, ran back out to put it back in the car, went in shot himself with the piddly 9mm, or 10mm,depending on which report you are referring too, all while concealing the 22 with which he shot his mom 4 times in the head while officers were closing in with in three minutes of the 911 call. The kid was good, NOT!!!!!!. What will you believe?
For hours, Lanza's mother was being reported as a K teacher at the school -- then she was found not to be connected at all. At first, I thought he'd gone into his mother's K classrom and shot her and her students.
Nick,
Interesting story about the cop; I hadn't heard that one. It looks like he was getting info from somebody else.
Also they quoted above, "rifle and handguns", but when you listen to the audio, you actually hear "rifle and SHOTGUN". something is not adding up.
Idiots. AR 15, Glock, Sig sauer on the shooter, shotgun in car. All registered to his deceased Mother, which he aparently used a .22 caliber on.
Don't let your ignorant fantasies overwhelm you. That was his problem. Educate yourselves and stop playing the stupid telephone game with each other. The situation is bad enough without your trying to make it about you.
Look, I'm not claiming any conspiracy, but I watched a video on NBC or CBS with an interview with a cop, probably the spokesman lt. Vance, and he said that the guy carried 4 handguns with him and the rifle stayed in the trunk - all in the tone denying 2 handguns and a rifle. I remember it well, because it was before I watched the press conference of the examiner Carver, who said a rifle was used, which struck me because of the earlier interview.
I cannot find that video anywhere, because there were so many and NBC doesn't let you go that far back. And from the video filmed the first night from above it looks like the cops were unloading shells from a shotgun, so it's consistent with the current version. It's just a little weird that the cops who were so careful not to say too much didn't clarify it.
Who cares? What the facts turned out to be is simple and who cares what gun he used, who he was or what drugs he was using. The babies are dead. Mom and Dad's do not have children anymore. Weapons were used to kill his Mom, babies, teachers and himself. Cops got there as fast as they could. People tried to stop him as best as they could. Care givers tried to save anyone they could as fast as they could. Good people trying to the best they can with an awful situation. Stop NOT talking about the real issue that the President talked about today. The big elephant in the corner, GUNS that need to be off the streets and out of the hands of anyone, that means all Americans. Not just the crazy, young, uneducated,criminals, men and women. Everyone. Dear god in heaven have we not have enough killing in our life times.
mgm-459334, if you think taking guns from every law obiding American, criminals will always be able to find a gun, will prevent the next mass murder, you are more dilusional than Adam Lanza. It will only create scenes 10x or 100x worse. If a criminal with a gun goes on a home invasion spree, he could literally take out an entire neighborhood one house at a time. Professional criminals know how to disable alarm systems and other deterrants before getting caught.
By removing guns from "all Americans", you will only create more mass hysteria. There aren't enough law enforcement officers to protect every American. Imagine what problems inner city gangs would cause if only police officers were able to carry guns. There would be more gang related deaths than ever before. There would be more home invasions, since criminals would be assured that there weren't any guns in the home they are invading. There would be more muggings, since criminals wouldn't be afraid of their victims turning a gun on them. Imagine if a criminal had a semi automatic weapon at a professional sporting event. There wouldn't be enough police officers on hand to stop the criminal from taking possibly 100s of lives before being detained.
Not to mention the report of a previous altercation at the school a few days prior. Yet none of these news reports have ever been attempted to be explained or corrected. They just vanish as if they never happened. I don't care about guns one way or another, but I do care to get the facts straight sooner rather than never. And not just straight facts but clear explanations for incorrect reports by the so called experts. Did the school have cameras? Any pictures or video of the gunman in or around the school? Then the media proceeds with all these BS stories as if they are relevant, who cut his hair? Who cares.
Looks like it took waaaaaaay to long for the police to get in there. Earlier in the week in Ore. the police were on scene in ONE MINUTE. I'd say we have our priority's messed up, when we protect Shopping Malls better than schools.
Cops drive around. Where the car is with respect to any particular event varies. The Oregon police probably just happened to be closer when the call came in.
If you think you can do better, perhaps you should join up and show them how it's done.
The Clackamas County Sheriff's Office Headquarters is not even 2 blocks away from the Towncenter Mall on the same road. 82nd Ave. to be exact. I lived there for 11 years. They are the lead agency in Clackamas County on the response too.
I'm grateful for the quick police entry into the building. Police departments across the country have learned from the Columbine experience, where the police waited outside for the swat team to arrive while the carnage was continuing inside. It seems pretty clear that in the Sandy Hook case that the killing would have gone on as long as possible until the police arrived. I have a great deal of respect for the first officers on the scene, who entered not knowing whether how many shooters were inside, whether they were likely to be ambushed, what the shooter(s) was armed with, etc, and possibly lacking the body armor and training to deal with a situation of this sort. The death toll could easily have been much higher but for their actions.
I was just watching supposed interviews with adult survivors of the incident and none of them have said that he was carrying a rifle when they encountered him. Not one mention of an AR15 being in his hands at the time they supposedly reacted to him. How convenient that they can take a weapon that was found in the trunk of his car, claim he used it to kill all of these loving little angels, but none of the witnesses can place a rifle in his hands at the time of the act. Demonize the evil AR15, make everyone believe that it was the killer and must be outlawed. What better way for Obama to achieve his goal of universal disarmament of US law abiding citizens, and now he is DEMANDING gun control propositions to be on his desk by January. What if we don't have them on his desk by then? Is he going to sign another Executive Order to ban them all on his own, thus achieving his goal rather quickly? Do I smell a governmental setup of the evil AR?
Your LE experience seems to be lacking. Few times the responders are dispatched from the hdqts. building but from their location on the road in their assigned sector.
Once again lacking. No one knows the caliber of the weapon used except the medical examiner in most cases. Anyone quoting those facts and not being a representative from that office of an eyewitness is useless. The media will print anything regardless of how factual.
FormerUSBPAgent says...
"Do I smell a governmental setup of the evil AR?"
Sooo, now the whole "Former" part comes into focus...
I would say check your facts, but you're obviously just searching for things to cite as discrepancies to help build your odd-ball fantasy account. Whiny Bit$h.
Yes, I am sure he shot 26 people 3 to 11 times EACH in a matter of minutes without an assault weapon. *Rolls eyes* Stop with the ridiculous NRA (Not Relevant Anymore!) crap. We all know it was not some simple hand gun. If you can't kill a duck without a baby M-16, then you are probably too dumb to hunt.
This is the most boggling. Why are they now going to broadcast recordings of the incident? How is that relevent?
STOP creating threads simply so you can be the ' first media outlet to get it to the People'!!!
IF you have not factual details when things are happening, DO NOT report it. It is simply speculation and now look at all the clarification that is going on!
Lay off the first responders...they did their job well and could not be expected to have "all the answers" when they arrived at the school.
True.
Last night I caught a segment that had one of the surviving secretary's on, with the 16 kids. Anyway, she said she called 3 times (911) and that it took "around" 20 to 25 minutes of r1st responders to enter the building where she was (towards the front office).. she said "it took forever" and she also said " it felt like it went on for a very long time", the pop, pop pop.. he must have been repeatedly reloading.. and no one came. I have heard so many accounts of the response from police but if this is true, WOW.. 25 minutes??? that's just ridiculous.
When you're hiding in a closet while a deranged gunman is shooting the place up, 5 minutes probably seems like 25 minutes.
It is unbelievable such a sick microbe SOB causes so much sorrow to so many people.
Bad seed, piece of s*it. How is it possible parents can produce such a parasite.
Your comment was legit UNTIL you blamed the parents. You're a damn fool.
Who else are you going to blame?
the shooters .223 rifles was found in his auto. What is the liberal media's problem with that fact ? I don't beleive the Mass media anymore after this incident. 23 people were killed and 28 other injured in a Luby's resturant back in 1991 by Fort Hood in Texas. How quickly that incident was forgotten.
Hi Chip, it was reported a shotgun was removed from the trunk of the automobile believed to be that of Mrs. Lanza. For whatever that is worth.....
Not forgotten just so sad guns were not stopped at that time. I remember it so well, nothing was done to stop the killing at that time either!
There is a fine art to making a 911 call. I think everyone should “practice” out loud what they need to say when calling 911. You should not wait until you need to call. As hard as it is you need to breath and calm down and think, which is why practicing is a really good idea. You need to speak very clearly and with as much concise and relevant information as possible. You need to “paint” a clear picture of what you are encountering. If you practice the right way, the dispatcher should not be asking you questions, because you are answering all the questions before they need to even ask. I use to own a bar and have called the police probably more than most people. I would never let my police buddies walk into the bar, without them know exactly what was going down. This made everything quicker, smother and a hell of a lot safer for everyone involved.
Ever tried making a phone call when someone is shooting at you? Even our military acknowleges there is no level of training to prepare a soldier for the horrors of war.
I am talking about making 911 call and not Sandy Hook and the tragedy that happened there. I am simply making a statement that we all need to think about the “what if” and practice that “what if“, because everything you do during that 911 call is extremely crucial. If I do not practice my CPR technique, then I have no technique. I have never had to use CPR, but I have to practice for the “what if”. I have never been in a fire, but I still practice “fire drills”.
Your comment is idiotic, to say the least. Perhaps we should offer 911 call prep training, just in case you get stuck in a massacre.
Exactly right. A calm, concise call shortens the response time dramatically. A 911 operator is no different than anyone else in that they can become confused or frustrated by an incoherent call. They're also forced, at that point, to decide if the call is legitimate or a hoax.
Kim makes a valid point...ya I
don't see people really rehearsing 911 calls out loud, but a real
one is filled with all kinds of useless noise and
conversation...even with a really good dispatcher interviewing the
caller there are all kinds of questions left for the first
responders.
20, to 30 minutes is indeed a
eternity if your hiding in a closet and there is a mad man outside
with a gun, but that does not make it an unreasonable amount of time
for the first-responders to get there, and in the confusion secure
the outside of the building before they entered. Safety for the
responders is always the first priority...this is not
selfishness...A dead responder is no responder at all.
And then there is the problematic
nature of the various ideas about armed school officials. Where
would these people come from and how would they be trained? It's
been said to simply arm the teachers and principals....but this idea
is in total disregard to the simple fact that most teachers and
principals are just that; teachers and principals. They are not cops
or armed guards,do not want to be, and would be poor ones if they
were. If the schools instead sought to budget a separate position,
naturally they want to either out-source it, or make it a minimum
wage job. So then these armed guards more-than-likely would come
from the ranks of the mall cops, and how effective would they be
against a mad man hell-bent on destruction?
"911: There in minutes, when seconds are crucial"
ONLY YOU CAN PREVENT A
LONE WOLF
MEET FORCE WITH FORCE. DON'T wait like sheeple Defend and arm yourself...
Allow teachers w/proper police training have a locker w/ fully automatic m-16's
Only you can be responsable for your safety against a lone wolf killer
Your attention in school is readily apparent.
Are you the President of the NRA? Perhaps you should be.
Kim, Hindsight is always 20/20. It's easy to say that, but as you say, it's something you do all the time in your profession. Did a mass shooter show up at your bar the first time you ever had to make that call? Were there hundreds of children in your bar that night that you were hearing screaming and crying while you made that call?
I think the receptionist did what she could at the time. I'm sure that after this incident more schools will be having such practice sessions, like they do with fire drills.
Most people never even think about making a 911 call; let alone think about what needs to happen during a 911 call. I have in no way put down anyone at Sandy Hook; I am simply making a statement that we all need to think about the “what if” and practice that “what if“, because everything you do during that 911 call is extremely crucial. In all the “drills” I have been in in my 56 years, I have never had anyone train me to make a 911 call properly.
Stop attacking Kim.. She is right to feel how she feels.. Understand in panic a person isn't rational..
When you take medical training the first thing you are told is to NOT panic, it can really impair your thought process.. Understandably guy shooting children will make the most rational person panic.. But there should be a need to practice speaking clearly and concise..
My husband choked on a piece of BBQ pork, the kids were talking to him and he was taking a bite and inhaled the food that he was putting in his mouth.. It got lodged in his wind pipe.. I had to perform the Heimlich maneuver. Had I went to him in a panic I would have never been able to do it, I went robotic because of my medical training.. My kid was on the phone calling 911 just spazzing out and screaming at the top of her lungs.. I screamed at her to fckn get it together and give clear direct answers and not to panic.. She straightened up because it was just triggering mass hysteria with my other kids..
Not even close to the same, but could be the difference in aggravating an already dire situation.. Think, stay focused, don't panic, breathe, give clear and direct answers, stay on the line, listen for instructions.. Don't lose control of your world, take control of it..
I can handle any type of crisis EXCEPT choking, I don't know why, I'm trained to do the Heimlich, but as soon as someone chokes I completely freeze up and go into panic mode.
I saw a little kid get run over by his own mother years ago, she had one of those station wagons where the back opens out, it opened he fell out while she was backing up and ran him over. I was able to basically put his insides back in and hold his rib cage closed until the ambulance got there, with no problem. But had that kid been choking he would've died because it's the one thing I cannot deal with.
This is so sad, brings tears to my eyes. God bless everyone effected by this horrible event.
Whats wrong with arming 2 people in the administration? just throwing that out there. What if we trained 2 or 3 folks in every administration and allowed them to be either armed or have a weapon at their disposal? Not in the classroom mind you but like the admin office or somewhere accessible. Think about it, if principal Hochsprung had reached into her office safe and pulled out a glock, put her locked away clip in and chambered a round and THEN ran down the hallway and instead of getting killed because she lunged she shot his azz, those 20 kids would be alive today.
You really think a principal with a handgun was going to take out a kid with a death wish, nothing to lose and a Bushmaster?
@janierock... do you really think 100 policemen armed with automatic weapons are going to take out a kid with a death wish when they can't even get to the scene until 5 minutes after the shooting starts? A principal with a handgun has a much better chance of altering the course of events.
Jani,
Im telling you when this all washes out we are going to see some things that will be disturbing (IMO), they will be
1) Response time.. (It wasnt 5 minutes)
2) Rumours kid was on a heavy drug, a split personality.. drug may have been under proble for banning in the US
I see no problem with having people in the school armed who are trained and responsible. (just my opinion)
IF any staff people WANT to be trained and armed, then OK.
Do NOT force school staff to be armed. Most of them (and most of the general population) do not have the right mindset for that (I've been on school faculty for the last 34 years)
why don't all of the municipalities just connect the police building to the schools. It's all tax money and i'm sure that it may possibly deter any puke from doing what this one did
We have almost 40 schools in our district. While your suggestion is intriguing, it isn't feasible.
Why is this even a story? How does Monday morning quarterbacking help the situation, especially from a bunch of armchair crisis tacticians?
Everything is clearer in hindsight. Please, give these poor victims time to grieve. Let the experts deal with whatever tactical issues come up.
Call for everything, except of course some realistic gun conrol.
William which ofrites are you for?
I have seen everything in my years and can say it is always better for someone to explain to a detective how they stopped their assailant than for the family to identify them at the morgue
I have worked in law enforcement and criminal justice for years and NO officer, agent or deputy would expect such a crime especially in a small town low crime area.
Further proof that law enforce investigates crime we do not prevent it
Maybe teachers if able to meet the requirements should be afforded the option of being armed the same way that airline-pilots can be.
That happened after 9/11
Open your eyes civil servants are humans not omnipresent mistake free robots
When cops arrive at the scene of a 911 call, they may have never been to that particular establishment before, and have to quickly survey the entire scene. For all they know there may be somebody waiting in the treeline to pick them off with a rifle before they exit the patrol car. Dialing 911 doesn't mean instant arrival and action. Cops have to get the info, drive like hell to get there, determine point of entry, and then walk into somebodys freaking nightmare. Listening to 911 tapes only give fragments of information anyway. Most conversation between officers happens on separate channels on alternating frequencies that most scanners cannot even detect. Even if those conversations are being recorded they are on a separate tape, so hearing one recording only paints part of the picture. I think the cops did a remarkable job. Imagine the nightmares some of them must be having.
Reading these.. Understanding how much danger these guys expose themselves to, when there is a real need. I have a great amount of respect for them.
I been caught speeding on Chicago highways few times.. whenever I got caught, I deal with them with a pleasant face and even make comments appreciating them for their work.
Keep up the good work guys!
Oh please, like they say when seconds count, the police are only minutes away-this proves it is even worse than that. Trust me I am glad they are there but in a true emergency, you are on your own.