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Subscribe to RSSA Florida man invoked the state’s controversial “stand your ground” law after he shot another customer at a pizza parlor who complained that his pie wasn’t coming out fast enough, the Tampa Bay Times reported.
Around 4 p.m. at a Little Caesars pizzeria in St. Petersburg, Fla., Randall White, 49, expressed dissatisfaction with the service. He had ordered a thin-crust vegetable pizza.
"Twenty minutes later, I'm like, 'Where's my pizza?'" White told the Tampa Bay Times.
Also waiting in line was Michael Jock, 52, who chided White for complaining.
The two then started tussling, police told the Tampa Bay Times. When White raised a fist, Jock, who has a concealed-weapons permit, responded by pulling out a .38 Taurus Ultralight Special Revolver.
As they wrestled, Jock fired a round and shot White in his middle. He fired again, hitting White in the same area, police told the Tampa Bay Times.
The two men then went outside and waited for police to arrive. Jock immediately told officers that he felt the shooting was justified under the “stand your ground law,” police told the Tampa Bay Times.
Police arrested Jock; he was later released on $20,000 bail.
Jock, of St. Petersburg, has had legal troubles in the past. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail in 2001 after pleading guilty to three misdemeanor charges, according to court records: criminal mischief, disorderly intoxication and loitering or prowling.
Florida's “stand your ground” was nationally debated following the fatal shooting of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin. Martin was shot by George Zimmerman, who said he was defending himself under the law.
NBC's Isolde Raftery contributed reporting.
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Leave a Comment:
Just so glad to think the ever problematic purchase of a pizza is covered by those fine folks at the NRA, the 2nd amendment, and the weapons 'r us folks in Florida who recently bragged about their 1,000,000,000,000 license issuance. It's a good world, eh?
Stand Your Ground is the NRA's favorite law! It gives gun enthusiasts the right to shoot anyone they want! It's good to be a member of the right wing lunatic fringe, isn't it?
Lunatic fringe? Did you read what you wrote? Nothing like a little exaggeration, eh? Pot, meet kettle.
Where in this "Stand Your Ground" law does it say you get to confront others for being bitchy or walking where you don't want them to walk. See a pattern here - it should be called the "Can't Stand Other People" law.
Who proposed this law and with what intent.
Stand your ground doesn't mean you can pick a fight then shoot the other guy. You can't slap Chuck Norris then shoot him because he's gonna kick your ass. Stand your ground means if someone tries to rob you, or breaks into your home, you don't have the duty to run away before you use deadly force to defend yourself. If the details in this story are correct, the shooter has no legal basis to claim stand your ground. Jock talked crap to White for complaining, then when White raised his fist, Jock pulled his weapon and fired. Since Jock caused the situation to become what it was, he's in the wrong.
Here come the anti-gun retards who want to cram their agenda down our throats. Bugger off, nobody likes nosey controlling a-holes.
since jock carried concealed he should have done everything is his power to difuse the situation..it dont look like he did ..why are we so quick to point at nra when this happens..just cuz they are pro guns it dont mean they promote hot heads
You people know nothing. Read the story & know the law before you comment. I really hope you can't vote in the USA!
Newswinner: And if course you aren't trying to cram anything anywhere. You are the retard for thinking that a person who has spent 30 days in jail on three misdemeanor charges should be allowed a concealed weapons permit.
And every legal, responsible gun owner like myself reads this article and hopes this idiot gets locked up and a lifetime ban on ownership. He's obviously in the wrong which is why he was quickly charged.
I'm really hoping the same journalistic standards apply when the law is used correctly. But I have a feeling someone truly fending off a criminal attack wouldn't make the news - only the absurd stories like this.
Just so glad to see such a thoughtful and well reasoned comment from someone who claims Florida says they have issued over 100 times more permits than the population of the earth.
"stand your ground" is unnecessary and unwise. Only "self defense" laws are necessary. This is an example of why "stand your ground" is dangerous. Can't believe he was let out on bail after shooting someone. Lax enforcement of gun crimes is another reason we have become such a violent society. If you use a gun to harm someone , expect to be in jail until a jury sorts it out. Very easy to enforce. Don't you think? I'm not against guns. I'm against stupid people and stupid laws protecting stupid people.
Actually Dave-2550157, although the intent of the law was if you started it, you could not use deadly force, the language of the law says you can. I am not going to look for the statute but I have read it and it is written that way. That said, by this idiots prior convictions "criminal mischief, disorderly intoxication and loitering or prowling", he should never have been issued a cwp.
Actually it was 1,000,000 and nobody was bragging, exaggerate much, eh?
jayinflorida The legitimate cases make the news on the back page for one day and you never hear about them again, there is nothing to sensationalize and create hysteria and internet traffic with so no advertising $$$$$$$$$
I think msn loves these stories because it gives them another reason to bring up trayvon martin.
Where is the republican, religious, right? They have gone totally silent since Obama was re-elected. Maybe they held their nose, past the point of no return, when voting for the non-Christian, cult member Romney. They were always preaching holier than thou, hypocrisy for the republican party. Now they have curled up in a fetal position and surrendered their rule to ALEC and the NRA. Come on religious right, speak up AGAINST these murderers, ALEC, the NRA and all of those republicans who have signed the stand your ground law. They all have blood on their hands. They all think it is ok to kill little children after they have left the womb. If the religious right, wont speak up against the stand your ground law and those who signed that law, then they too have blood on their hands.
AnaBanana-1782128
"stand your ground" is unnecessary and unwise. Only "self defense" laws are necessary. This is an example of why "stand your ground" is dangerous.
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you don't understand the law..... 'stand your ground' simply means that someone a) doesn't need to flee if in public, previously people had a duty to try to run from somebody trying to kill them, which obviously caused a lot of good people to get killed and injured by bad people..... b) somebody who is entitled to self defense can't be sued by the person who attacked them or their family, previously the families of bad guys who got killed by a victim they were assaulting were winning multi million dollar suits against the victim...
stand your ground, by design... has some very good merit....
it doesn't mean you can just shoot someone, it doesn't mean you can make up any old reason... none of this crap that people are squawking about on here.
this story is that the guy is invoking the defense... not that he's gonna be successful... if the article is accurate, he's almost certainly gonna end up in prison....
anti gun people: every time you exaggerate, lie, or don't know what you are talking about... you not only look like fools... you hurt your cause
I use to have to go to customers homes every Thursday to try and collect past due water/sewer bills - I always pretended to take the customers side just so I would avoid confrontations - try it, it works wonders.
Everyone should have to be a Public servant for at least 2 years - it will teach you how to be civil...or unemployed. So where does one work where they get to be bitchy and rude? Home schooled, work from home, have your groceries delivered...what did I miss?
Newswinner; you are slipping - you could only work in "retard", you couldn't find a use for Hitler and socialist?
Right. I particularly don't like controlling a-holes with concealed carry permits, like this guy who decided he gets to control who complains in the local pizza joint, and then figures it's okay if he shoots - twice! - the person who's complaining. And you think those who are anti-gun are the ones with a screw loose?
Please remind us; What is the inscription on Obama's wedding ring? You know, the ring he has been wearing since college.
I am reminded of the quote, "When one knows not who about him is armed, it behooves one to be on his best behavior".
I can say this, being trained in self defense, and knowing that I can kill someone with a single strike, means that others can too. Granted in this close proximity, Jock should have kept it holstered. {as it is easy(if you know what to do) to disarm a person when in contact with them. A firearm is for ranges of 2 to 20 meters. Having said all that, It still depends on the situation.}
My point is, "When White raised a fist", he elevated the threat level. To what level is up to a jury to decide, not us. And remember this is NBC reporting, they are not known for their "Pro-Gun" stance. What little tid bit of info did they leave out of this article?
sonsoftheoil7 #1.6~~The NRA is not only pro-gun, they are "pro-assault war weapons" and "pro-killers."
Clark; actually all the drama articles are NBC - we can only comment on MSN articles from the "What's Trending" articles...and my Hotmail account won't connect to them, fine Microsoft help is worthless.
oldhamletman; please inform us on how pro gun people help their cause. Usually the pro gun crowd instantly resort to death wishing on these drama filled stories. I call it using the Easy Button when the death wishers say stuff like; they should just save the tax payers money and shoot so & so, then they offer to do the shooting...lmao.
"...1,000,000,000,000 license issuance."
The only factual part of your post is that your 'authorities' allowed a social misfit to carry a concealed weapon.
"sonsoftheoil7 #1.6~~The NRA is not only pro-gun, they are "pro-assault war weapons" and "pro-killers.""
Where is that specified?
Gun violence over a pizza.
In America.
Jaysus.
arguesforsport #1.18~~If you are interested in facts, go to snopes.com, type Obamas' wedding ring, in the search engine and you will learn that email, as are ALL of those slanderous Obama emails, are ALL FALSE.
Dr. Robert Jeffress, the pastor of First Baptist Church in Dallas, Texas, is not backing down from his controversial statement that Mormonism is a “cult.” In a phone interview Tuesday with The Christian Post from his office in Dallas, Jeffress clarified and expanded on his theological examination of Mormonism and what qualities are important for Christians to consider when selecting candidates for elected office
Dr Jeffress, also stated, "If Romney gets the nomination, I will hold my nose and vote for him"
If ever you decide, you want to know facts, go to a reliable source, like snopes, ask, google, etc. You will never get facts from those emails.
@ GreatGran
Well, better to vote for a "Cultist" than a Communist.
Here is a situation where a man has a license to carry a gun and the "stand your ground law" in his state. The result? A man who probably had more confidence than was warranted. Most non-armed people have a little more repect and a little less chutzpah a situation this article describes.
When someone is murdered, the NRA line is, "If that person had a gun, they could have defended theirself."
In this case, if the guy had NOT had a gun, this whole thing would never have happened.
oldhamletman
And yet you have people starting crap and shooting each other over the dumbest things, then invoking this stupid, flawed law. A little while back, in the same state, some moron shot into a car full of teenagers - killing one of them - over an argument about loud music. And when the cops caught up to him, he invoked Stand Your Ground.
@ J_P #1.16
No, it won't "teach you how to be civil" (maybe because you already had good parenting) I have met more than my fair share of Rude, Bitchy Public Servants. What? are they going to get fired for being rude? Ha!
Every where else I have worked though, is another story. i.e the private sector, except for unions.
It would be an interesting statistic to see how many home schoolers are any of societies misfits. I am guessing it would be a decimal, followed by a lot of zeros.
@ arquesforport 1.18
I don't know, he has evoked Executive Privilege on the release of that information. Or were those records sealed?
It used to be against the law to argue with your wife in Florida, is it still or does stand your ground make that law mute?
I don't read email unless I am expecting something. I got the translation of that ring from multiple sources through google. I don't remember which sources, but there were a bunch and I been around long enough to tell rags from news. Just because they weren't the sources you like does not mean they are invalid.
Just another day in Florida! Do- do - do- do- dooooooo....
It's almost like the media has an agenda to screen out 90% of the bizarre stories that don't happen in Florida to give the impression tha-
Nah!!!!!! What are the chances of that? Florida is just whacked. Just another day in Florida! Do- do - do- do- dooooooo....
" Just the facts, Ma'am"--- Sgt. Joe Friday, Dragnet
Comprehensive article on "Stand Ones Ground" cases in Florida.
If you bother to take the time to find out the facts, you'll see how the law is applied on an individual basis.
Black, white, brown, male, female "shooters" and those shot and the outcomes of the cases and the status of those pending.....It's not a free-for-all here in Florida.....My opinion....this case will not meet SYG criteria:
39 Convicted------- 68 Justified------- 20 Pending
http://www.tampabay.com/stand-your-ground-law/fatal-cases
Hover your cursor over each photo and read info on the left of the page.
Stop with all the hysterics, it serves no purpose.
God of Fate...(#1.33)..."Florida is just whacked. Just another day in Florida!"
What a croc......218 cases in the 8 years the SYG Law has been in effect...(See link in #1.34)
1,000,000 CCW PermitHolders.......AND 1,000,000 Illegals from every poverty-stricken country and islands in the Caribbean.....Any chance those 2 are related ??
Follow the money, that's what every carpetbagger criminal dirtbag does.....There are alot of folks with alot of money here....Retirees like the No State Income Tax and Homestead Property Taxes...Prime Targets for cowards.....I live in a relatively modest area in my town, but when I go shopping at say, Publix....Half the cars in the parking lot cost more than my home, octogenarians behind the wheel...
Home Invasions are down, Applebee's, TgiFriday's, Longhorn Steakhouse, Morton's Parking lot robberies are down....Jewelry Snatch and Runs are down.....What isn't reported nationally are the local stories when these crimes are thwarted...and there's pretty much no way of counting how many attempts haven't been made because the thugs are learning they may face an armed target....
P.S....The last GunShow I went to at the South Florida Fairgrounds....the CCW Permit class was filled with women and Seniors.....And FBI background checks and 5 Day waiting period are in full effect for gun sales.
Mr.Bubbs
And yet you have people starting crap and shooting each other over the dumbest things, then invoking this stupid, flawed law.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Bubbs,
the law needs a tune up for sure to prevent people in certain scenarios from successfully invoking it .... but gun deaths are down 20% and aggravated assaults are down 30% in Florida since stand your ground came out... so people are definitely not getting shot more often because of it...
believe me, the dumbness factor for a lot of people has nothing to do with stand your ground
Yup, it's the NRA's fault. You guys "always" have to blame someone. Can't blame the @!$%# that did the shooting.
My neighbor drowned in his pool. It's the pool manufacturer's fault. Yup. Even blamed the Water Company.
My uncle choked to death on a piece of steak. It's Omaha Steak's fault...blah, blah, blah.. Yup, Even blamed the Grill Manufacturer.
Gotta blame somebody right?!.... Can't be the @!$%#. Nope. Just can't be...
arguesforsport #1.32~~Let me guess, the multiple sources, you researched were:
They, including WND (who started the bigoted email) and Rush, are all republican, radical, extremist, propagandist, none of which are Arabic interpreters. They know, they are espousing propaganda. That brings them millions of dollars, (by leading you people to believe their propaganda,) which is much more than they could get from an honest, good days work. But you choose to believe what you want to believe, rather than facts.
The sources, that I referred you to, are factual. The sources you researched, which you can not remember, are propaganda and that makes them invalid.
Morning CD,
Can't agree more. It is the thought process that a person can't be held responsible, blame the "fat cat" republican's, when it extremist on both sides. They also don't realize that I know more democrat, union shop working guys that are in NRA that conservatives. Again, tells how screwed and screwed the extremist are. They don't even know what the people that are supposedly on their own side are doing.
DumbFarmBoy #1.26~~Who is the communist, that you have the option of voting for, or against? I did not call anyone a cultist, that would be Dr Jeffress. But I do agree, we all have the right to vote for whomever we please, but none of us have the right to make our own facts.
If you are calling President Obama a communist, that is just your juvenile name-calling, or adult slander!
You seem to be missing the point. Over 50,000 people will be injured or killed by gun violence this year. To a normal, thinking person this is unacceptable. Finding a solution to this tragic problem is making some gun enthusiasts nervous, though. This is, therefore, not a matter of "blame; rather, it is a matter of identifying the problem and the unfettered, unregulated ownership of deadly weapons is definitely a large part of the problem. Workable solutions to this tragic problem need to be found and quickly in order to save the lives of our children, family, and friends. If this means limiting some wannabe Rambos' access to weaponry, registration of all firearms, making gun owners obtain permits to own and use guns, enacting strict laws concerning the operation and storage of weapons and ammo, insisting on stringent enforcement measures for these laws, and/or requiring gun owners to obtain liability insurance on their deadly playthings, so be it. Similar measures have been placed upon autos and drivers and the death rate among auto accidents in the US for 2010 dropped to its lowest level since the 1940s and will soon dip below the death rate for gun violence, even as that statistic continues to rise.
Something must be done about this quasi-genocide that is being inflicted upon the American people. We will not tolerate our children being slaughtered on the alter of the Second Amendment any longer.
@ Great Gran #1.40
Judging by your comment then, You are Anti-Socialist/Communist? Just because he doesn't call himself a Communist he isn't one? Just because he is an American? Just because he is President? Are truly that lacking in cognitive and rational ability?
Well refute this: (he wrote it in his own book)
You will notice he shunned the politically active White students, even though they too were just as misguided as he, "To avoid being mistaken for a sellout," as he put it. He sought out Marxist, i.e. Communist, Professors. He makes it sound like it was the late sixties, but this was in the mid '80's. I was in college then, and I never heard of "Structural Feminism", it was women's rights, and by then, they were referred to as "Latino" or "Hispanic" not "Chicanos". And in the '80's, who was worried about being a "sell-out"? He is a sixties hippy wanna be.
He was raised in a Communist family, his mother, and grand parents were documented communists. He was mentored by a communist roll model, Frank Davis (This was reportedly sanctioned by his grand father). Also, given the company he keeps, his upbringing and the company that he associated with during his college days, just what type of conversations do you think he had while discussing neocolonialism, Frantz Fanon [:a Marxist anti-Imperialist], Euro-Centrism, and patriarchy? Do you think it might have had an anti-imperialism, pro-communist slant to it? Or do you think they were pointing out the errors of Fanon and the strengths of Capitalism? And how do you think "patriarchy" fits in with the "structural Feminist"?
You will notice he called it "WHITE" rule, not "BRITISH" rule. What he was referring to was this:
Every Action I have seen him take, is in line with his "Collective" mindset and Communist roots.
1) "You Didn't Build that", the collective did, (the collection of tax payers who paid for the infrastructure, and collection of employees that work for you) Well, I didn't have any employees when I started my first business, So I built it. I paid Taxes too, and lot more than my neighbors, So I built it(roads and bridges) too. And the first roads, canals and railroads were built by individuals, not governments. the Government didn't take over most road maintenance until the '30's under FDR's socialist regime. Because when I hear someone say they built it, I consider “Who financed it, as well as the labor involved, and who organized that labor”
2) Let's Bail out the Unions, oh I mean the car makers... commUNIONists. And you people are fond of throwing out the "Presidents serves all Americans" well what about us Non Union Americans, and the speeches he gave about the Wisconsin Union vote? A STATE ISSUE, AND NONE HIS MAJESTY'S darn business.
Shall I go on...
But you Love Obama, don't you? He will change America, won't he? He will make it better, right? That's why you Love Obama, right? He get's it. Right?
arguesforsport #1.32
Ditto...So long as you know your sources Political Slant, most sources are valid.
Great Gran #1.38
You just told me everything I need to know about you right here. You are a Kool Aid Drinking Lemming. period. You may not agree with them, but does not mean what they publish is not fact. And if you wish to go tit for tat over who published false or misleading stories I have 6 networks to pick from and you have one. And if you can't see the left slant of the MSM then you lean ever further left. (btw, I do recognize that Fox is Conservative View point based )
@ sailcat #1.42
How many of those are self inflicted? So, more "We have to protect people from themselves" elitist thinking? How many of those are accidental? I can agree we need to better with gun safety, The Number One reason the NRA was formed. Go look up some of those numbers. And how many of those numbers are criminals/gangbangers who placed themselves in harms way?
Just exactly how is gun ownership unregulated? There are age restrictions, qualification restrictions, there are restriction on where a firearm may be carried. There are a ton of regulations.
Riddle me this:
Up until 1934, any one in the US could order and have shipped through the USPS, a fully automatic sub-machine(Tommy Gun) or even a BAR(both were heavily used during WWII). Where were all the spree shootings then(other than criminal gangland)? It was not uncommon to walk into a hardware store and buy a case of dynamite to remove tree stumps. If easy access to deadly weapons is the measure of a deadly society, why were things like the "Bath School Disaster" not regular occurrences?
In 2009 according to ABS News there were more than 37,000 deaths attributed to drug abuse in this country, where is the outrage here? The call for closer scrutiny and regulation? Or does that cut to close to the Legalize Marijuana Movement?
How about the alter of civil rights? The reason, and the only reason THESE children were targeted was because the mother of this this Mentally ill/damaged individual could not readily have him committed. He found out, and thought his mother wanted to "send him away, because she loved those kids more"
You have no clue where I looked or didn't look. Your sources are no better or worse than any other, they just say what you would rather believe more than the other guy's. So your reply is invalid and merely propaganda.
Just another idiot gun owner, this one in Florida (no surprise there,) out to kill somebody.
Probably a Republican, too.
There is nothing political about this story. It is a man who should not have a concealed weapon permit because of his past; a situation that certainly did not qualifiy as "life threatening;" and a law that is so poorly written as to allow someone with little justification to invoke a ridiculous defense for elevating an argument from words to a shooting. If the guy did not have a gun, he probably would have kept his mouth shut because who really cares if someone is complaining about a frikkin pizza? Having that gun hiddin in his coat gave him the balls he would not have had to turn a roll your eyes situation into an argument that he really had no business being involved in.
Really, can anyone actually argue that there was any reason that this guy felt he needed to insert himself and his gun into a daily situation we all experiance of an obnoxious A hole complaining about service? Does being an obnoxious A hole justify being shot? And that is assuming the complaint was undeserved.
Does "dumb farmboy" really think anyone on this vine will read thru his dissertation? Guess he feels frustrated about something.
Please check out the site #1.34 gives. The decisions are unbelievable! Mike in Delray: simply amazing.
Maybe if enough people go to prison for wrongfully thinking its ok to shoot anyone at anytime for any reason, people will get the message. Honestly the law is poorly thought out, and the castle part in Florida really makes it one of the worst laws on the books. The second amendment means you can carry a gun, it does not give you the right to violate the rights and liberty of others by taking their lives. Its not a get out jail free card for murder.
Florida has become hunting grounds, gun related deaths are three times what they were before those laws were enacted. That is progress? Please though I have no clue on how involved the NRA was with these law I do know it was something that the ALEC group pushed, until many major donors withdrew their support for those laws. ALEC no longer actively tries to get these laws passed.
This isn't a gun control issue, this isn't a political issue or shouldn't be. Its simply a common sense issue, if you take a life you should expect a full investigation into it. The person that died deserves that at the very least. If it was really self defense, the evidence should show it.
Everybody in Florida is crazy. You cannot claim self defense if you are an aggressor in a situation.
Jan,
The person that died deserves that at the very least. If it was really self defense, the evidence should show it.
According to the article, after the shooting both men went outside and waited for the police. The article never indicates anyone died, and by the fact that the victim was ambulatory, I susect he didn't die.
Dumbfarmboy: In France, a true socialist President is in favor of a 75% tax rate on the wealthiest French citizens. In the mid 20th century in the US the highest tax rate was 91% for people making over $300,000 throughout the 50's, until 1961. In 1952 in particular it jumped up 1% to 02% (according to Taxfoundation . org. which has a detailed spreadsheet covering rates from 1913 to today. Obama wants to let what was intended as a TEMPORARY tax cut expire on the wealthiest Americans and RESTORE their rate to 39.6% from it's current 35%. 4.6 measily percentage points. But you go ahead and keep screaming Communism. if a 39.6% rate is Communism, be sure to tell Eisenhower he's a communist when you meet him in Heaven.
If you want to specifically talk about the automakers, there's 2 points you need to consider. 1) Obama's complete actions allowed the auto industry to reorganize and slash retiree benefits that the automarkers were otherwise legally required to make, which is the driving force that kept them solvent. Hardly a pro-union move. 2) That money has almost totally been paid back. How about AIG, with their $150 million bonuses, and half a million dollar party they gave with bailout funds, and the fact that the company is now owned by the Chinese?. Nice job saving them by #43, don't you think?
Oh, and btw, I associated with known communists in college too. McCarthyism proved it wasn't illegal. It doesn't mean I agreed with their views. It does mean they could articulate ideas and discussions/debates better than the drunk jocks in my dorm.
Enough History for you...lets try some math. Your comment
It would be an interesting statistic to see how many home schoolers are any of societies misfits. I am guessing it would be a decimal, followed by a lot of zeros.
See, 'How many' implies a count, not a percentage, so I guarantee the answer would be a positive, non-zero integer. I do agree that it would probably be a relatively low non-zero positive integer, when compared to the total number of home schooled individuals.
I wish all states had this law.
Yeah maybe you would get lucky and get to cap a fool
Stand Your Ground is the law that protects gun-toting cowards from the patrons of pizza parlors and from unarmed African-American boys. Therefore, I can easily see why Viewer_Ready would welcome the law in the state his trailer is parked.
lol or when some kid kicks out the 2x4 holding his ac in the window
Next time someone is beating your head into the pavement, just ask him politely to stop. That's what you would do, right? Oh, wait, let me guess. You're a MMA, ex-Green Beret and you would have beat someone twice your size to a pulp if he dared strike your manly self.
So you are being stalked by some dude while walking back from the 7-11, and if you stand YOUR ground, but don't have a gun, it is your fault you get shot for standing your ground without a gun, right?
Next time someone is beating your head into the pavement, just ask him politely to stop.
Or maybe you shouldn't go chasing after people looking for a confrontation.
b
That's right, just ignore the parts of 911 transcripts that you don't like because they contradict what you want to believe. Because a reply of "OK" always means "I'm ignoring you and doing what I want" and "I don't know where he is" means "I'm still chasing him".
Sixteen states have a Stand Your Ground law. Thirty states have some form of Castle Doctrine, such as Colorado's Make My Day law.
Sailcat-2064101
"Stand Your Ground is the law that protects gun-toting cowards from the patrons of pizza parlors and from unarmed African-American boys. Therefore, I can easily see why Viewer_Ready would welcome the law in the state his trailer is parked."
Lying,stereotyping and bigotry in the same paragraph-nice job-you would be the uninformed ignorant POS in the discussion.
Stand your ground laws do NOT in any state,"protect" those who shoot another person without justification-nor are all gun ownetrs "cowards" just because YOU have been brainwashed into believing that guns are bad-it does NOT mean that YOU are in the right,or that you understand the laws-you have clearly demonstrated that you do NOT have a clue what the laws do and do not cover-you just drank the anti-gun kool-aid-judging by your posts-you drink by the gallon-on a daily basis.
Go back into your parents basement-do some actual research on stand your ground laws-then post when you have a clue.
...so now he's free to prawl the internet and stalk everybody who comments against him in the headlines
.........zzzzZzzzip ~psycho! the fist evolved to shut your mouth and let freedom of speech complain in america!
Boy, if there ever was a case for everyone having a gun to defend themselves this is it. If everyone there had a gun they could have gotten in on the fun. Maybe you need to buy a certain number of pizzas the pass the back ground check.
Absolutely, tee-totally crazy. Hungry? Eat your gun.....
This is crazy and I hope he gets at least a manslaughter chanrge. The article doesn't state how big the men are but at least they were close in age. What is this world coming to when you can bring a gun to a fist fight?!
Never mind on the manslaughter....White didn't die. My bad. Either way, this Jock guy should go to jail for some kind of assault.
How about attempted murder? that's what he should go to jail for.
reckless discharge of a firearm, attempted murder, assault, armed violence ... in Illinois we could come up with 14 different ways from Sunday to charge this
And with his prior legal troubles, how the "H" did he ever get a concealed permit in the first place? What stupid gun laws are those. Just like the mother who kept four unsecured guns in the same house with a mentally ill son. We can only hope that this new presidential task force comes up with some good policies on how to solve this major problem. Guns, mental illness, unemployment, and desperation are never a good mix. As the president indicated in his press conference today, we are seeing far too much gun violence in this country. In case any of you missed the story early this morning, they now estimate that by 2015 (just over two years from now) the number of gun related deaths in this country will exceed vehicular deaths. That is rather frightening from both standpoints. We need to be solving both problems.
Oh wait a minute, we have nothing to fear. All of our problems will be solved at 4:20 PM on Friday (12/21/12) won't they. After all, the world will be coming to an end at that time. I don't believe that nonsense either, but far too many people do, just like the nonsense that comes from the NRA and Second Amendment Rights claimants.
I guess it was the other guys fault for bringing a fist to a gun fight. Dude had big balls with a gun sounds like he was looking for a chance to use that law. That law needs to disappear with assault weapons.
Jock had a concealed weapons permit. I would venture to guess White didn't see the gun until after Jock whipped it out. My point simply was that a fight like this should not involve guns. Why are people so freaking wimpy this day and age?
If either one of these guys knew how to preheat an oven to 400,place pizza on rack,set timer for 17-21 minutes. This could have all been avoided.
Pizza!Pizza!
OMG... LOL
It also sounds like the guy should have called in the order first.
Florida is just a cesspool of inbred genetics and misfits from all of the dark, dusty corners of the rest of America.
Tim: How bad could your grouper sandwich have been? There are worse things happening in the "nice" parts of America.
Is Oregon still a State? I thought all 3 residents moved to Washington.
me and my first cousin wife do not take kindly to such comments,
It's the GOP's wet dream. Force women to breed, then mow 'em down in the bread line when they speak up against any small businessman.
- If you ask for ketchup from a waiter, can a waiter gun you down for being aggressive?
- If someone cuts you off in traffic, can you shoot at them for vehicular assault?
- Best of all, if some whipper-snapper runs his skateboard across your lawn, can you gun him down instead of waving a rake?
Perhaps you document the need for some people to have a brain wave scan before they are allowed to fire a keyboard?
Or a gun!
See this is what happens when people who have concealed weapons permits and walk around with guns. People still get shot because they're too big of a pussy to handle hand-to-hand combat. Or a small, pointless scuffle in a pizza joint. Gets shot twice because he got mad over a pizza. Welcome to 'Murica.
Barbaric.
How about we start discouraging this foolish behavior. I mean really, they just need to man up and engage in some good old "hand-to-hand combat"? over a freaking pizza? I agree it was a stupid 'scuffle' but wtf - now this is a reason to fight in public?
I think these idiots both got what they deserve. One dude got shot and will definitely think twice about starting crap with strangers - the other guy is going to go to jail and won't ever be allowed to have a gun again. Sucks this is how they had to learn their lessons but whatever - make better choices next time.
Jay did you read the article? The person who was shot was complaining to the pizza staff not the man behind him who decided to provoke the person complaining. My question is would this individual have provoked an already incited man if he didn't have a gun tucked out of sight? This is aggrevated assault on the shooter's part and as such should carry all the heavy charges and serve prison time. Stand your ground is not a bad law but implementing it among people with little education seems to have prooven fatal in too many cases.
this would never happen in india~
1.5 billion people and nobodies shooting eachother~ or making pizzas the right way ... they fold everything over there
no guns no pizzas no problems! ...except excess poverty and wealth divide
and idolatry... we need more missionaries in that region as the world is developing
Ban pizzas! Ban folding! Ban excess poverity! Ban wealth!
(Are we good now?)
we............united we stand! divided we fall!
and every rose has a thorn and every sad song sings a cowboy of lust over virtue
Nobody is shooting people over anything so why bring missionaries there? You seem to want more christian violence doper.
India must be letting their drug smuggling prisoners use the Internet now.
Just another nut witha a gun . . . "defending" himself.
a real man should know how to take a beating
he's eating dough that gets beaten into shape...possibly everyday? is his belly in shape? i dunno i never met the guy...but i'm glad! he sounds really dangerous to the public...why so light on the bail?
is bail even a right way for america anymore?
why allow people to manipulate the judicial system this way?
...extremism meets capitalism...and pays off the system... just like in iraq
Real men don't take beatings, they fight back.
Real men don't fight in public over pizza.
Tell that to the loudmouth that raised his fist first.
To quote a movie line: "Don't start nothing, there won't be nothing!"
Why are you people making the man who was shot the bad guy? All he did was complain after waiting over long for a pizza and the SHOOTER started mouthing off to him. I would have told the person to mind his own as well and depending on the comment which is not being shared by the news I may have popped him in the mug as well. The shooter incited the scene to escalate and there-fore used a poorly established law to set up a reason to use his fire-arm. Argues for sport, you do such a poor job at being a troll, you should change your user name to something more befitting rampant stupidity.
And you would deserve whatever you got in return. Never heard "sticks and stones"? Asking someone to settle down is "mouthing off"? I suppose if someone is being noisy in a movie theater and someone asks them to quiet down that person deserves to be slugged? The person that threw the first punch incited the violence. And think what you like, but I never say anything I don't mean....making fun of my handle and you use "wisdom" in yours?
If you applied a little more wisdom you may find that no where in the article does it state exactly what the shooter said, only that the he 'chided' him. Look up chided before you assume that means he asked him to be quiet, it is more a statemnt of insult and though I would give an example I shall rather refrain so as not to appear as ignorant and assuming of things such as you consistently do. Wisdom enough or shall you retort once again with unpreppared attempts?
Wow...you told me. But you totally evaded my reply. What does it matter what either said? Are you implying that physical violence is acceptable for "chiding"? You should have refrained from you last post, your arrogance is shining through. Look up "chiding" yourself, it has nothing to do with insulting. Children are "chided" every day by their parents or teachers.
Are you going to defend your "I may have popped him" statement or are you going to ignore that you made it again? Sorry if I hurt your ego, but you made the statement, now tell us where you would be justified to use violence because someone spoke to you.
Write again when you find some wisdom.
Do you always consider yourself winning when you flail and whine and fail to make a point worth arguement? I do think physical violence is acceptable for many things being that I am not on someone else's teet for protection. Then I can imagine you only dare spout in forums as far away from the reprecussions of your weak base as possible.
Once again...why do you feel it's OK to "pop someone in the mug" for speaking to you? By evading the subject you admit defeat.
...says the guy spouting on these forums. What repercussions? Are you going to pop me in the mug for having a different view from you?
As my favorite author Carl Hiassen once said "things are just different in Florida."
At least they weren't shooting up school children,theater patrons and volunteer firemen. I'm glad "things are just different in Florida".
How the heck does he get a concealed carry permit with a record of criminal mischief, disorderly intoxication and loitering or prowling?.
With a little tweaking we could turn this into Florida's Stand Your Ground Round law.
Or "Stand your Sausage!"
lol
Nothing like using your gun for a backbone. Its too easy folks...how many arses out there like this own a gun and carry permit? How did he get a gun when he was known to have a record? If the reporter found this out surely to heck a police record check would be a good place to begin with gun control.
Do you know the diffrence between a misdemeanor and a felony?
mpa-4893349 - Difference between a Felony and a Misdemeanor is usually a 'Plea Bargain'
Nothing like picking a fight with a stranger who may be armed. Guessing that neither of these idiots will engage in this foolish behavior in the future. A gunshot to the gut and spending time behind bars usually makes people have an epiphany. At least I hope that's the case.
Jay, again, education matters. The arse with the gun started the fight, learn to read.
Stupid law nothing but an invitation for murder.
Stupid law or stupid people? You think you can legislate intelligence?
Yeah, because I'm sure neither of these idiots would ever shank someone in a fight.
Jay you said shank, is that a pitiful attempt to sound all excon to your followers in the weight watchers meetings?
I've had some bad experiences with wait times on pizza as well. If I'd a had a gun my pizza would have been cooked a whole lot faster!
Why does a man with a criminal record have a concealed carry permit? WTF? I have to go to Florida for a conference next year, and I'm beginning to think I might have to take a damn flak jacket with me. God forbid I upset someone there - I might get shot.
Depends on the crime. No felonies, no violence related misdemeanors. Stay out of high crime areas and don't go out of your way to mess with strangers and you'll be fine :)
You are not eligible for licensure if you are under arrest or currently charged with any felony, or crime punishable by imprisonment for more than one year; or any crime of violence, including crimes of domestic violence; or any crime under the provisions of Chapter 893, Florida Statutes, or similar laws of any other state relating to controlled substances.
Here we go again! Why was a person whom has already had criminal problems issued a CHL? Did a background check ever get completed for this dumbass? Did he ever take and pass the CHL class? A large block of the classroom instruction involves de-escalation of potential situations. Sounds to me that he completely escalated the issue by running his mouth and then shot the person kicking his ass. Sorry to say, but these are the douche-bags that give the rest of us a bad rap.
All you wannabe heros or tough guys out there, just because you have a CHL does not give you the right to stick your nose in everyone else's business. If the person that got shot was trying to rob the place or assault another patron, then yes, you have the right and duty to use the minimum amount of force necessary to remedy the situation. Sometimes, just the sight of a gun will convince the assailant to back down, you don't always need to pull the trigger. What kind of trouble do you think you would have if a round had exited him and struck a bystander? You do not have the right to pull your weapon because you felt like running your mouth due to something that did not concern you. If the manager of the establishment had a problem, he could have confronted the person or called the LEOs.
I hope this knucklehead gets 20 years in the pen if for nothing else than being stupid. And I also hope that the victim sues the ever living crap out of him in civil court.
Men who carry guns do it for one reason, because they have very little penises and small balls.
That's not what your momma said.
It most certainly is what she said. My father didn't walk around with a gun except for the large one between his legs. Johnny Holmes was jealous.
Sounds like you have made a habit of checking....or you're just talking out your ass.
Squidword,
Do you direct that comment also to all the soldiers, sailors, airmen, or marines whom carry guns in defense of this nation? The same ones whom keep secure your right to talk out your ass and say stupid crap?
War Ranger,
Spot on with your post regarding CHL and proper respect for the use and possesion of a fire-arm (even if you look a little extremist scarey mate!). The shooter in this case used the altercation between the pizza staff and this stranger to set up a 'stand your ground' scenerio that doesn't even fit the law's requirement and there-fore should spend countless years looking at concrete. I do not see however how this individual you are slamming now can be dragged into a comment against those carrieng fire-arms int he service mate, your anger is up so please remember the rules of respect regarding your own fire-arms! Remember, people will say what they wish to get their 5minutes in the light, don't let them rankle you mate as it will detract from your prior intelligent posts.
I have been meaning to change my avatar picture. It is rather outdated and kind of tacky due to the crap going on with gun violence in this country. My wife took the picture and she liked it, so I used it. Believe me when I assure you that I am in no way, shape or form one of those extremist wackjobs. I'm much more of a middle ground person. I try to get as much info as I can from all sources and make my own decisions from there. My only vice is that I sometimes like to troll on here. You know, write stupid crap that I know will get a pissed of response. I shouldn't do it, but then again people shouldn't smoke or do drugs either. Have a good day.
There! Changed my avatar. No more extremist looking mofo toting a Mossberg 88. now it's something I am a little more proud of.
Why did it not change? I really need to learn how to use these new fangled inventions called "computers". It ain't computing anything I put in. Dang it!
Actually Squidwood does have scientific backing for his statement that only small dick morons need a gun....furthermore, his statement really holds true for those patriotic warriors in the NRA that are too pussified to join the armed forces, instead they buy a Bushmaster and pretend they're in some "militia" protecting our constitutional rights.
Kind of like "Rock, Paper, Scissors" isn't it? What next? One guy makes a fist, the next guy pulls a gun. I suppose the third guy needs to pull out a rocket launcher or at least a hand grenade.
This might be a good time to ask "What would Jesus do?" I doubt He would feel the need to buy himself a Bushmaster assault rifle for self defense.
Merry Christmas!!
i guess all i wanna say tonight about capitalism and gun violence is...
stop being so psycho hard on yourself in america...
after traveling the india nepal tibet route the last few months i've learned...
maybe america isn't the beast and the dragon 666 mark of the beast in revelations?
and you don't have this aggressive mentality to live up to anymore! ...you can have peace!
in asia...they really do worship beasts (mans number) and dragons and marks on their heads and eyes on their idols hands and foreheads ... just sad... i think they are lovely people but ...worshiping dolls instead of God
america is probably connected with the whore of babylon though...enchanting the world with adulteries and everything
like we know and can agree it does ..........on many waters~ ...the world is OBBsessed with america
they wanna be here! they don't wanna live in rubbish and garbage and smog~ ...they want american wives!
After the smoke and your head clears try your post again.
~every american dollar spent is a chinese yen earned
and spent on the development of chinese presence in and around the globe
not lottery tickets and porn perscriptions
Morphine Carnival,
Do you perhaps live in Amsterdam? I hear the drugs are really good there. Put the bong down!
So what did the witnesses say?
Two less in line ahead of us! It's Florida, --it happens.