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Craig Ruttle / AP
The casket of teacher Anne Marie Murphy, who was killed at the Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings, is lifted from St. Mary Of The Assumption Church after a funeral service in Katonah, N.Y., on Thursday.
A Sandy Hook Elementary School teacher who died cradling a special-needs student in her arms was laid to rest Thursday, with one of the nation’s top religious leaders speaking about how the world was “awed” by her sacrifice.
Hundreds of mourners attended the funeral for Anne Marie Murphy, 52, a married mom of four, in Katonah, N.Y., where she lived before moving to Newtown, Conn.
New York Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who presided over the Mass at St. Mary of the Assumption Roman Catholic Church, compared Murphy’s sacrifice to that of Jesus Christ.
"Like him, she has brought together a community, a nation, a world, now awed by her own life and death,” Dolan said, according to the Associated Press.
"Like Jesus, Annie laid down her life for her friends," Dolan said. "Like Jesus, Annie's life and death brings light, truth, goodness and love to a world often shrouded in darkness, evil, selfishness and death."
When Adam Lanza’s rampage at Sandy Hook was over, authorities found 6-year-old Dylan Hockley “wrapped in the arms” of Murphy, his special-education teacher, the child’s parents said in a statement.
"We take great comfort in knowing that Dylan was not alone when he died,” they said. “Dylan loved Mrs. Murphy so much and pointed at her picture on our refrigerator every day."
A statement from Murphy’s family, read by her brother-in law Thomas Newman across the street from the white-steepled church, expressed sympathy for the loved ones of all 20 children and six staffers killed in Friday’s massacre.
“[We] pray for all the families touched so terribly, that God may help these feelings of such great pain and grief pass quickly, that they may be replaced with only happy thoughts and joyous memories of those we have lost,” they said.
There was another wave of wakes and funerals in Newtown and surrounding towns with poignant scenes including Boy Scout leaders lining the path to Trinity Episcopal Church, where 6-year-old Benjamin Wheeler’s tiny casket was carried by his uncles.
Seth Wenig / AP
Herb Pontow, left, and Tony Tipton, both from Maryland, try to clean and organize an overflowing memorial for the shooting victims in the Sandy Hook village of Newtown, Conn., on Dec. 20.
The Rev. Kathleen Adams-Shepherd told the crowd the crime was “inexplicable in human terms,” according to the Stamford Advocate. Benjamin’s life was cut too short by a "sick young man with access to weapons that should never, ever be in a home," she said.
Trees outside the Sacred Heart Church in Southbury were festooned with green balloons, because that was 6-year-old Allison Wyatt’s favorite color.
"She was goofy," the Rev. Walter L. Pitman said, according to the Stamford Advocate. "She was funny. She had her two grandfathers wrapped around her finger and she knew it."
At St. Rose of Lima Roman Catholic Church in Newtown, 6-year-old Catherine Hubbard was eulogized by her mother, Jennifer, who recalled how the little redhead asked Santa for animals every Christmas.
The priest, Msgr. Robert Weiss, said Catherine’s brother, Freddy, worried how he would know he was on the right school bus without his kid sister around.
“Just look up and she’ll give you a wink,” Weiss said, according to the Middletown Press.
“Oh she already did? She got there fast.”
Services were also held for Lauren Rousseau, 30, a full-time substitute teacher at Sandy Hook, and Jesse Lewis, 6, a first-grader who loved horses.
A public memorial for Emilie Parker, 6, who was born in Utah, was held Thursday evening in Ogden, Utah, NBC station KSL reported. Nearly 1,000 people attended.
"It means a lot," Robbie Parker said, according to KSL. "We love you guys. Thank you for being here."
He said he remembered going for walks with Emilie. "We could never make it very far because she always had to stop and pick all of the flowers," he said.
A private funeral service for Lanza’s mother was held in New Hampshire, and about two dozen relatives attended, a police source told NBC News. Nancy Lanza was shot multiple times in the head before her son stormed the school.
It wasn’t clear if anyone was prepared to claim Adam Lanza’s body.
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A nation mourns after the second deadliest school shooting in U.S. history at Sandy Hook Elementary, which left 20 children and six staff members dead.
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I hate to sound cold, but MSNBC is going to run an article on every funeral and milk this tragedy for all its worth.
This is the media attention that drives these nut jobs to think there is fame in it.....and the media sales its soul to the devil every time.
Tired of seeing the senseless waste, tired of seeing the sweet faces of the dead children?
I buy almost everything except food and clothing from online auctions. most people aren't aware of the almost unbelievable deals that they can get from online auction sites. the site that has the best deals is saveBang.com
and i checked with the better business bureau and was told that it is all legit. how they can sell gift cards, laptops, cameras, and all kinds of goodies that we all want for 50-90% off, i don't know. i do know that i bought my son an ipad there for less than $100 and my husband a $250 loews gift cards for $48. why would i even think about shopping anyplace else?
I think the reality here is a bit of both. The media are guaranteed to milk everything and keep it alive for as long as they can. But the pain in most peoples hearts is so deep with this event, that for many people, the news coverage is the only way they can feel they are contacting with the innocent victims and they don't want to let go..
The danger is that the gun lobby will simply wait till that pain and media attention subsides and then start their own offensive, and I'm pretty sure when all is said and done, absolutely nothing will change. It will simply be a question of waiting till the next innocent victims are slaughtered and hoping it is not us or our children.
I am not advocating thoughtless and sweeping changes in laws etc, but Americans have to stand back and recognize that although the vast majority of gun owners and users are good, decent, caring and law abiding people, there is something wrong with the 2nd Amendment in our Constitution. It is becoming a poison to our nation and it is forcing us constantly back to dealing with guns as a legal and constitutional issue whereas the real problem is the moral consequences of gun proliferation in our nation. I don't know the solution to that problem but I find it distressing that anytime we start to try discussing it, we get our faces rubbed in the 2nd Amendment. Good people do what's right, not just what someone else wrote in a document.
Totally agree with you Paws93, and in addition, the following remark is completely inappropriate and strange:
What's next?
what was so wrong about the statement? Bible clearly states that there is no greater love than to lay your life down for a friend... and this teacher did just that. Technically, she was being Christ like...
Its supply and demand, just like any addiction as long as people want it they will supply such items. This is just a sad time with this time of year and gifts sitting under trees that will never be opened by those who they were intended for. As for the Jesus remark, i must have missed the verse where he threw himself infront of a bunch of kids shield them from bullets, but I sorta get what he meant, she gave of herself to protect and hopefully save others.
Shipwrecked, I kind of liked the "Jesus" comment from the cardinal. After all, we know Jesus was a real person who preached kindness and caring for others. I thought it was quite appropriate, and I'm not even sure I'm a Christian anymore. Everyone can love what Jesus represented, even though they may not believe in the resurrection.
Hello folks, a Sandy Hook parent makes a plea to you. See how this tragic event spurns this reaction just one day after the event. Now put yourself in his shoes, wouldn’t you react the same way just one day after?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=urrRcgB581w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8nTZKpmtlQ&feature=player_embedded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdCTqY8TYIo
If you don't like reading the news why do you read the news.
Jane: How do you "KNOW" Jesus was a real person? Oh wait, are you going by a document that's 2,000 years old?
Obama Whistles Idiots Follow banned, re-reg of The PEOPLE vsOBAMA.
"Milk" the fact that 20 little children were slaughtered in their classroom by a man using an assault weapon that we allow to be legally purchased?
They are simply reporting what is going on.
If you think that reporting the aftermath of a massacre is "milking" a story well....
Question: Do you think that the reporting that goes on day after day about Benghazi is milking the story? And in that only 4 adults were killed and they were killed in a foreign country that wasn't all that safe to begin with - they should certainly let that story go before the slaughter of 20 children in the United States.
Sally and Paws93 want their 15 min of fame...online-wow, that can make your day?
Both my children are teachers...going back to the college days when they were both home from college when Columbine happened.
I love my children, though they are now adults with their own families. I trust them to take into their arms, the kids that need a hug when they can give one to a student. That they can coach a school team after the end of classes and get home and start grading papers after the family time has ended and the grandkids are tucked into bed. I trust them to say ok..."lets listen to each other" when one girl stands up in class and says "F---k you " to the rest at age 12, to understand what this girl is going through.
I never used to worry about my children's chosen profession, now I do. This is another reason to type
"if I have to explain it to you, you would not get it". Thank God for the good hearts that still work in our school systems. the parents that support it, and the administrators that can never make all of the peopl happy all of the time. Bless the folks that reach into their own pockets to help a student. Bless those that die in their teaching service and only a teacher reading this will get "it". Yes, teaching is a service and the right now, they are dying.
Carndinal Dolan...Bless you for time with this family!
SB, you're so far behind the times. Science has proven that Jesus existed and was, in fact, crucified. As we all know, science CANNOT prove that he rose from the dead. Yet.
Enough already. This should have been a single story on the national news, and then just a local story.
All this press is just feeding the next monster. They see how much press this guys gets, not just him, but his acts. So the next monster says thinks it is great that the whole world is talking about this. That it goes on, and on and on.... They want someone to remember them, remember their life. They want the country to be so concerned with something that they were able to do.
ENOUGH. Let the families be. And for those that say, why did you read the story? I didn't, I just picked one at random on the home page and commented on it. Did not read a single word of the story.
Hello folks, Problem – Reaction – Solution. As Rahm Emanuel has said “You never let a serious crisis go to waste.”
Problem – Children and teachers murdered at school by a person on legal pathogenic Big Pharma drugs with a gun.
Reaction – Community and citizenry are horrified and fearful. They are “reminded” by their government “why they are needed” and beg government to intervene.
Solution – Government creates taskforce to provide pre-emptive recommendations.
If you think this is farfetched how do you think our government has been getting away with taking our country to a different war every year and allowing the banksters to fleece us. What was once considered conspiracy is now reality, there are no coincidences! Wake up people!
Perhaps some of you would just like this story to go away, but since this was a massive tragedy and the families are still burying their dead, why should we just forget about it? I, for one, am mourning with these families and I don't know any of them. But, they are fellow human beings and American citizens. For those that don't want to read or hear about it ... don't. Go to another site, change the channel, but don't make comments here then. It makes you seem hypocritical.
Go make your insensitive and uncaring statements elsewhere.
God bless these families and give them peace.
1.
YES, you do sound cold.
So do the rest of you who get your kicks out of being snarky.
If they talk about this for another
26 Days
it might awaken folks like you that the
majority of the country
SUPPORTS this community....
and WANTS the discussion of
guns,
mental illness...
and the bizzarre hard dismissive attitude of some
to be a call for change.
But since none of you could wait to see your words in print....tell us, WHAT STORY did capture your attention today?
First, condolences to this brave woman's family. She died an honorable death, and she should be remembered as a true hero.
However, along comes this idiot:
Jane H
Wow. Well, as a scientist, I'd love to see your data. Exactly how has science proven this?
In reality, there is scant evidence of "a" Jesus existing, let alone the details of his death. I suggest you read the scholarly work from The Jesus Seminar for starters. Even if he did exist as one Jewish rabbi, there remains zero eye-witness accounts to the crucifixion event, therefore there cannot be any evidence at ALL for it, let alone "scientific" evidence.
Have all the blind faith you want, but don't spout lies and nonsense for Jesus. It's a tad contradictory.
Something so, so sad but yet so beautiful. Its a great comfort to know that this child was held and in the arms of a special, brave teacher. I agree 100% with the Cardinal.
Jane...
Believe you meant "science cannot DISPROVE that he rose from the dead". I don't think science are trying to prove he rose from the dead. That's already known to be impossible unless they had a condition where a person previously thought dead were actually alive in a dead like state. And lastly Jane, science has not proven that Jesus existed. No remanents of his person (the Turin shroud did not belong to Jesus) have been found. Jesus "existed" via the New Testament and scriptures but him being "the son of god"...this is a religious determination, not scientific.
Jon, why don't you do the decent world a favor and take your anti-Christ, anti-God, anti-faith, anti-compassion, anti-social behavoir elsewhere for at least this ONE thread?
These people are burying their dead children and loved ones this week and perhaps their faith means nothing to you, but it is a lot of comfort to them.
Shut up about your hate for Jesus and save it for another discussion on the Vine.
You give even decent atheists a bad name.
silverton-2953905
Yes, yes... pointing out rationally-derived facts would, to you, be anti-compassion (despite my intro to the post) and anti-social behavior. Sheer genius.
As for "anti-god"... as soon as individuals like Jane and other adherents of your desert myth stop saying idiotic things that do nothing to help the dead or grieving, I'll stop pointing them out.
Oh, and it doesn't help that the entire 'story' is based on a well-meaning but asinine quote from some cardinal.
Funny—the faithful can start the conversations, but they sure can't deal with it being two-sided.
In reality we don't know enough about Jesus to know what he would have done. We know just a bit about approximately 3 years of his life and virtually nothing else. As a "God" he should have the power to prevent such atrocities. But no one does.
Many pray and cry to God but they must also believe God made Adam Garza and gave him the defective brain that caused this violence. Because "we are all God's creatures", right?
You just can't have it both ways. An omnipotent being that does not intercede for his most precious creations? That allows grievous pain and suffering as a teaching tool? And if you believe the really nutty preachers he did it all to teach us a lesson. That is a God I want no part of whatsoever.
I understand people relying on their faith when terrible things happen but the God we worship today is no more real than those that once supposedly roamed Mount Olympus.
now the church is trying to capitalize on this tragedy, God will protect you but you have to come to church and remember its 20% of gross before taxes is what god requires..
I wouldn't stand behind god unless he was holding 50 caliber machine gun , then I would feel safe !
I'd rather the media attention be focused on the victims than on the perpetrator. Excellet remarks by the cardinal as well.
voxrationis
I'm not a Christian, but I disagree with you. The mere presence of evil does not disprove the existence of God or a higher power. Evil can be construed as the absence of God, similar to darkness being the absence of light. Taoists have a concept called yin-yang which states good and evil are compliments without which the other could not exist.
The Cardinal's statement is a little far fetched. Illuminatti- people
Cardinal: Teacher who gave her life is 'like Jesus'
How dare the Cardinal insult this woman like that! She was a "real" person, who gave her "real" life to save another "real" life! She was not a figment of someone's imagination, conjured up to control the mindset of the masses!
Leave it to some dope to pollute yet another thread meant to commerate the deceased and their families. *sigh*
Jane H
"Shipwrecked, I kind of liked the "Jesus" comment from the cardinal. After all, we know Jesus was a real person who preached kindness and caring for others."
Oh really... WE know Jesus was a real person? Hmmm... and just who is WE? I think maybe YOU should look up some statistics about percentages of the "WE's" of the world and just what exactly THEIR belief's/non-belief's are before assuming that yours is the only one that WE know about.
Merry Christmas Jon.
Enough with the "Jesus isn't real, so get that through your thick heads" mentality. I am an atheist, as well, but I do not have a dead child. My religious beliefs, or lack of, take no precedence over anyone else's, unless harm is being done.
I see nothing wrong with what the Cardinal said and if it provides comfort to those who DO believe in God, Jesus...whatever, I don't see a problem with that. These people have to deal with a horrific tragedy. However they need to deal with it, in whatever way they want, let them do so.
Leave these families alone in peace and quiet. Their lives, as they know it, has changed forever. Just be glad it didn't happen to you and show some compassion here. Also, go to #26Acts on Twitter and perform at least one act of kindness, instead of arguing who's right and who's wrong. Do something useful.
Jon,
One's insistence that he is real is just as absurd in modern time as your insistence that he is not real. The only difference between the two perspectives is that you are attacking their beliefs, while they did nothing to provoke you in the first place. Based on the posts above, it appears that tolerance is not exercised by your kind. These people from the story should be tolerated in their greif, whatever form that takes.
Also, just to point out, the eye witness accounts you asked for are all in the bible. You can believe them or not, but they are there.
Thanks Kris1234!
I am not an atheist nor am I am devout Christian but I do realize that billions of people derive hope and solace through a belief in a higher power through religion.
There are many who do not believe in God but among them are people like yourself that realize that in times of pain and loss that having that faith can pull others through awful times. And who am I, you, Jon or anyone else to deny them that comfort even if we disagree with it?
It's times like these we all must find comfort where we can and how horrendous is it to deny someone that comfort because of our own value systems.
shipwrecked, how sad it is that you can not keep your opinion to yourself, rather you try and take solace from the family. I don't know you and I don't mean to judge you, but pathetic is the only word that works to describe you.
If it is not against the wishes of the family, every funeral should be shown. Some of us are grieving with those families. If you don't like it, don't watch. No one is tying you to your TV. Milking? You are a cold-hearted cynic. Those with love in their hearts understand.
Really, what is more important are the victims rather than some debate about Christianity, religion or guns. Though I expect them to happen.
And you know what? I find what the pastor said to not be inaccurate, even if you believe the bible is simply a story and in that story, the comparison is completely fair.
Jon, stop being so incosiderate. There are people mourning this tragedy. They don't want to hear your B.S. Same thing goes for the Son of a B in Texas. You guys come through as total jerks. In this Country everyone has the right to worship whatever religion they want wether you agree with it or not.
My condolences to the family of this brave woman. What she did was nothing short of amazing, What an Angel! Her family must be so full of pride for her actions. She will always be a hero in my eyes. God Bless her and her family. May they find the strength in God to comfort them always.
In my opinion, all the children were atheists. I wish I could have watched them grow up as free thinkers. Forcing religion onto children via these faith-funerals does not honor their beautiful, curious minds.
It merely reinforces the cultural disease that is religious faith.
Jesus and MSN's reporting are worlds apart in their message and intent.
A week before they were bashing the Catholic church for ratings and now they quoting it for ratings.
What a lack of moral values for a buck.
And people believe what they report on the Dems and the GOP here and sway public opinion? Just think about that for a minute.
It was also announced that their news crews were asked to leave" by the people of the town because they were getting sick of the publicity. You wouldn't have had to ask me or my new station or news site...I would have left on my own and pulled out my crew days ago.
I also believe in separation of church and state, so I will never quote religious officials on an affair like this. I am surprised Reverend Jackson has not grabbed front and center. He was always the best at this.
So we have armed guards at banks but not schools, therefore we care more for our money than our children’s lives. Are armed guards effective? When was the last mass murder at a bank? Going postal: the term came from an UNARMED group. I noticed that they didn’t call it going bankal!!! And I bet there are plenty of people who would like to go bankal. Therefore being armed is both a deterrent and a safety edge. The term over educated idiots comes to mind when I think of our schools.
NOTE TO POLITICIANS: If you pass a law that makes my new $1500 assault rifle illegal I will make a note of your name and vote for anybody else in November. Also note, there are 300 million guns in the US; that is a lot of votes. The term political suicide comes to mind.
Because our government refuses to protect our children I can’t help but get the feeling that they are using our feelings for our children’s safety to get us to give up our 2nd amendment rights???
Gun laws are effective?? Look at Canada: In America 80% of the prison population is black, and about the rest are Hispanic. I don’t see blacks and Hispanics in Canada, so I expect that they would have a lower crime rate. Apples and oranges comparison. Look at Mexico: Hispanic population, whole towns getting wiped out by illegal gun toting gangs. Their government threw the population to the wolves with gun control.
Why is our government loading up on ammunition while at the same time trying to pass gun laws??
Why Does The U.S. Government Need So Much Ammunition?
In my previous article, I also noted that the U.S. government appears to be very rapidly making preparations for something really big.
This week, it was revealed that the Social Security Administration plans to buy 174,000 hollow point bullets which will be delivered to 41 different locations all over America.
Now why in the world does the Social Security Administration need 174,000 bullets?
And why do they need hollow point bullets? Those bullets are designed to cause as much damage to internal organs as possible.
But of course this is only the latest in a series of very large purchases of ammunition by U.S. government agencies. The following is from a recent article by Paul Joseph Watson....
Back in March, Homeland Security purchased 450 million rounds of .40-caliber hollow point bullets that are designed to expand upon entry and cause maximum organ damage, prompting questions as to why the DHS needed such a large amount of powerful bullets merely for training purposes.
This was followed by another DHS solicitation asking for a further 750 million rounds of assorted bullets, including 357 mag rounds that are able to penetrate walls.
Now why in the world would the government need over a billion rounds of ammunition?
If it was the U.S. military I could understand this. You can burn through a whole lot of ammunition fighting wars.
But this makes no sense - unless they believe that big trouble is coming.
George Soros:
Perhaps even more disturbing is what he believes is coming after the financial collapse....
As anger rises, riots on the streets of American cities are inevitable. “Yes, yes, yes,” he says, almost gleefully. The response to the unrest could be more damaging than the violence itself. “It will be an excuse for cracking down and using strong-arm tactics to maintain law and order, which, carried to an extreme, could bring about a repressive political system, a society where individual liberty is much more constrained, which would be a break with the tradition of the United States.”
Idiotic. In fact, the whole post is.
Nothing like prophets of doom and gloom in here. Totally as sick as Adam Lanza.
Glen, Reverand Jesse Jackson is to busy trying to keep up the lie that is his family. He is,like his daugter in law and son, are more concerned with the money train they feed off of and the image they have of the community they exploit. The President finally leaps into action over this tragedy while for years, 100's of black children were slaughtered by gun violence in his hometown of Chicago. And in his nieghborhood for that matter. What was the problem? They couldn't identify what type of gun was used? A gun is a gun,a bullet is a bullet, and dead is still....wait for it...DEAD! Now were going to ban assault rifles which hasn't a clear definition? They can both STFU
CHRIST TEACH US
James said, "Rabbi, if they arm themselves against you, then is there no
blame?"
But I was concerned because of you.
And I was not like them, but I clothed myself with everything of theirs.
The (First) Apocalypse of James
~ The Nag Hammadi Library ~ Gnosis.org
12.21.12 The End of the Beginning
My sentiments exactly! The media is sucking off the pain this community is enduring since it occurred not yet a week ago all in the name of ratings.
and i guess you're feeding into it with every comment you post...
And you're helping... how...?
Try using your head next time you make a post.
oops.. you just fed into it again. Unplug your computer and help "stop" NBC... smh
No, I'm not 'feeding' into the article itself, simply making an opinion that you obviously don't like and keep trolling by trying to twist up words. So glad you enjoy the media feeding off people's pain at their expense.
Pro freedom:
I respectfully disagree with you.
They are trying to get the nation to remember these beautiful people and how they cared for others. I don't want to forget them. These were wonderful Americans. It pains me that the lovely children were a part of our future that was taken away. Remembering them more may give us hope that we could raise others like them.
My heart goes out to their families.
What level of coverage would you like to see on it? Maybe a passing blurb on the nightly news? "20 children were gunned down today, in other news, Donald Trump has new hair....."
Why so bitter?
This story should be restated often as a reminder of what's important in life. I imagine that many people have reevaluated their lives as a results of seeing these children killed.
In the Middle. Yes they have. I'm one of them. I had forgotten what was really important in my life. This was a wake up call for me. I'm spending Christmas with my oldest Daughter and Grandchildren in San Antonio this Christmas. I will, God willing, be on the road Saturday morning. Merry Christmas to all you fine people. May we all find comfort in our families to get us all throught these sad times.
Chuckster
Thank you for being one of the few who may take some sunlight from the night of last week. Too many gun lovers are only worried about their guns, too many religious people are using the tragedy for a forum. You, my friend, are taking the horrible experience and changing your life to a point and using it to remember how important family and love is in our lives. Bless you for the testament. All of you anti-religion folks, listen, this is heart of Jesus.
I disagree completely. Everyone of these people who died so senselessly deserves to be remembered.
I am a mother and cannot even begin to fathom the pain these people are feeling at the loss of their loved ones. I will read about, and cry for, every single person who is laid to rest this week, as tribute to them..., then I will watch no more. This is not about prurient interest but raw human emotion and honoring the victims.
If you find it offensive, boring or repetitive than go elsewhere. This is a bit of closure for many people.
I agree with thinkingmom that everyone needs to be remembered and honored, and the loved ones of the deceased need comfort and support, most of all the parents. Loss of a child is the worst thing I have seen in my several decades, and I have seen it four times with people close to me. It is a life-long struggle from which few parents "recover." My grandparents talked about their young child who died, "the one we lost," until they died.
And not to minimize any tragedy, atrocity or suffering, I do feel that the media covers some of this to excess--for their own gain. I should know, because my "first career" was in broadcasting. All of the big news and broadcast organizations are corporate businesses, and their ONLY lucrative interest is to make money. They do this by selling advertising and get paid according to how much of the advertising target audiences they reach.
Also, the news coverage personnel "are like birds lined up on a wire: when one of them flies off, the rest follow in the same direction" (paraphrased. I think it was Sam Donaldson or maybe Cal Thomas who said that--it was many years ago when I heard it said on television.) Couple that with whatever political slant you happen to believe is prevalent in mass communications and it will appear they are pushing an agenda by overlooking many events and microscoping other, specific types of event.
No one said it better.
Agreed mom. It serves many good purposes.
If the NRA thinks this horrendous massacre of little children is going to fade away like other incidents it is sorely mistaken. This was a day infamy and will never be forgotten. Millions of people like me will keep the memory alive for all the years to come.You can be sure of that! You cannot pull off your usual PR blitz. This time it will, absolutely not work.
That's what they are counting on: the short memory of many people.
The problem is this crime was really heinous. Even those who get wealthy by selling guns or lobying congress for more relax rules on guns have a family too, so I wonder: what is it that they feel when they go home and look at their children thinking about what just happened in Newton? What would they do if their kids die in a situation like that - work to sell more guns?
My family won't forget them. This tragedy was purely heinous.
Just what is going on with some of you people? For starters I told the NRA never to call me again and so far I haven't renewed my card-all because of the phone call anti Obama rant. I own guns, believe the Second Amendment keeps the First alive and well and I shed as many tears that day as you did. Grow up.
Do you honestly feel the members of the NRA are sitting back smiling at this news? Get a grip. They like guns, not murder. I don't even own a gun, but your comments are ignorant.
Middle
I agree with you, however, I do not agree with the anaolgy of the NRA that we should allow assault weapons to be purchased because a ban on them would be "the dreaded first step" of the government banning all guns. That is ludicrous. I support the right of all Americans to own firearms, but assault weapons?? We allow people to purchase cars and trucks, but tanks are not allowed.
Every law I've seen proposed would have done nothing to stop this tragedy. The shooter broke dozens of laws including stealing the guns. The only thing that would have stopped this tragedy is if someone was allowed to be armed in the school and take the shooter down. But because Schools are a "Gun Free" zone none of the guards, staff, or teachers could legally be armed and were easily gunned down. Almost all mass shootings have happened in "Gun Free" zones. The only law that will stop the next mass shooting is one that repeals these "gun free" zones. Call your senator and representative and tell them this before the next mass shooting at a "Gun Free" zone.
YES, lets arm teachers and staff. That will work until one has a psychotic break, then what? I know! Let's arm the students! Pure insanity.
Do you think if a teacher is going to have a psychotic episode and want to kill her entire class they couldn't bring a gun from home and do it anyway? Go ahead, keep your head in sand, I'm sure if we just keep posting those signs and not allowing teachers the ability to protect themselves and their students these types of massacres will just go away.
Agreed that armed security should be in schools when kids are there, but many teachers and staff have no business holding a gun.
Yeah, sure, that’s what we need! Arm the entire school staff, so we can have dozens of ordinary citizens shooting towards whatever they perceive as the threat. That should end pretty well…
It's a very scary proposition. Putting MORE guns in the hands of ordinary people expecting that those folks will shoot to protect must be every NRA supporters dream. No… I do not believe that is a reasonable solution. Might be good for your home… But not for my child's school or any school.
Much to my surprise I did not realize that their are armed teachers in some schools. Saw it on network news last night. Where were the schools? Texas... Of course.
I just don't think it's a good idea to arm teachers. There are numerous cases and evidence of students assaulting teachers in school. I can think of many reason why guns should not be allowed in schools. And very fews reasons to justify guns in school.
I agree with LG and others; more guns in schools isn't going to solve anything except increasing gun sales. Teachers need to teach and everyone there should be focused on learning, not on escalation of the situations that occur.
The old west eventually came to the conclusion that less guns and not more was the solution to gun violence. Our society may need to relearn that lesson.
Good idea? A ruler in one hand and a 12 guage in the other. The teachers will need a 3rd hand just to write a hall-pass.
That is utterly untrue. We can safely assume that Mrs. Lanza was a law-abiding gun owner. If the law had required her to secure her weapons in a safe or at least with trigger locks that her son, who is acknowledged by everyone including Mrs. Lanza to have had emotional and mental issues could not have breached, those kids would be alive.
It's a simple rule that the NRA has consistently opposed, for years.
I'm sick of the gun nuts repeatedly crying, "there's nothing that could have been done to stop this tragedy".
Bull@!$%#.
I don't think the school should be handing out guns to teachers, but if a teacher has the proper permits, education with safe gun use and has the desire to carry their gun on them in school or kept locked in their desk then they should be able to.
Apparently his mother didn't keep her guns safely secured. This should be the lesson to gun owners. Anyone without the ability to defend themselves or others in the event of a mass shooting are little more than paper targets to these shooters should be the lesson to gun control advocates. Just as those who commit such acts as this have learned that when they're the only one with a gun in a building full of people they're a fox in the chicken coup.
"God didn't create men equal. Mr. Colt did."
Fine then require everyone, everywhere to have proper permits, to demonstrate they're educated with gun safe use and to secure their weapons. The current hodge-podge of local laws isn't working.
I'm with ThinkingMom 100%. Every funeral should be covered and the pictures of the dead should be plastered on the news day after day. We forget too quickly what the real-world results are of all the gun violence in this country. Let this be a constant reminder until we finally decide to get serious about the problem and find solutions. We owe this much to the dead in Newtown.
O.K. let's plaster the pictures of the people who got abortions because it's a choice. How many innocents got scraped like old paint today?
Stonepipe2...you are a sick person to even attempt to create an analogy such as this. How do you even make such an association?
It's a shame a teacher has to die protecting her students for this country to recognize her as the hero she is on a daily basis to her students. It wasn't that long ago that the pundits were referring to teachers as lazy, socialist, union stooges.
Stooges who some puggs now expect to be trained in warfare, really and able to kill at a moments notice. Some elected officials need to take the same mental competency test gun owners should be taking.
It's perfectly obvious that gun owners are never, ever expected to take a mental competency test.
But diagnosed mental illness or living with an individual who is mentally ill should be grounds for refusing a firearm license.
John 15:13 Greater alove hath no man than this, that a man lay down his blife for his cfriends, thats how these teachers should be remembered they are true heros
And for the beautiful children taken from us too soon:
"Sweet little flowers of Heavenly birth, you were too fair to bloom
on Earth" may you rest in peace.
Too the parents how can one comprehend the loss of a child so innocent and pure.
"Death leaves a heartache no one can heal, love leaves a memory
no one can steal."
BTW This "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends" has nothing to do with dying but what we do for people while still alive. If we are selfish and live only for our selves that is NOT love. Need to be able to read and understand Biblical Greek and go to the original text to pick that up though. The same person that said that also said, "Let the dead bury the dead".
MURDER VERDICT: Genesis 4:15 But the LORD said to him, "Not so; if anyone kills Cain, he will suffer
vengeance seven times over." Then the LORD put a mark on Cain so that no one who
found him would kill him.
"ORIGINAL" VERDICT: John 8:44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
HIDDEN VERDICT: The Testimony of Truth ~ But what sort is this God? (Again JOHN 8:44) First he maliciously refused Adam from eating of the tree of knowledge, and, secondly, he said "Adam, where are you?" God does not have foreknowledge? Would he not know from the beginning?
And afterwards, he said, "Let us cast him out of this place, lest he eat of the tree of life and
live forever." Surely, he has shown himself to be a malicious grudger! And what
kind of God is this? For great is the blindness of those who read, and they did
not know him. And he said, "I am the jealous God; I will bring the sins of the
fathers upon the children until three (and) four generations." And he said, "I
will make their heart thick, and I will cause their mind to become blind, that
they might not know nor comprehend the things that are said." But these things
he has said to those who believe in him and serve him! (YAHWEH)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>12.21.12<<<<<<<<<<<<<
It was reported, that 34 Palestinian Children, were murdered recently in Gaza, by the Call of Duty.
"But what sort of God is this?
PRAY THAT A WORLD THAT KNOWS BETTER; CHANGES TOMORROW
Gnosis.org
Least we never forget the victims of this senseless violence.
Cardinal says woman like Jesus? What an insult. I would not want to be called a 2,000 year old no-show liar. That woman deserves to be remembered better than that. She was a hero who loved the children and was a league of her own.
He didn't say WHEN He'd be back -- and boy, will YOU be shocked when He does -- like other nonbelievers. You're showing your ignorance -- Jesus is NOT 2,000 years old -- He has no beginning and no end. And the woman was not "a league of her own" -- maybe IN a league of her own.
Actually, the Cardinal insulted Jesus, not Anne Marie Murphy. She did a monumentally beautiful and courageous thing, but for a so-called "religious leader" to compare her actions to those of Jesus is extremely out of line and insulting to God. I pray that God comforts these families and friends and gives them peace and strength.
I'm with David M. People give this "god" so much power, then cut him all kinds of slack when he can't get through elementary school walls, or keep a plane from crashing into towers. And according to the articles from yesterday, he's upset about gay marriage and abortion, so he allowed children to be taken out with rifles??? Someone, please explain the correlation. Can't wait to find out what he's pissed off about next week, and see what he allows to happen because he's all in a huff.
SB, I would not try to persuade anyone one way or the other over the internet, but I think it's important to point out that it's faulty logic for anyone to argue for or against the existence of a deity. By human definition, a deity is One not like humans, but superior in ability in every way. It's your choice to not believe in God; believe what you want to. That is your free will and no one can take it from you.
But, for any human to presume to have the ability to contemplate effectively on, define or understand a deity is arrogant and philosophically illogical.
Even Stephen Hawking's brilliant (yes, a pun) argument against the existence of "god" which he developed and presented very elegantly, using thermodynamics, cosmology and what we call "modern physics," uses flawed logic (IMO). His premise is that because physics theory suggests (strongly) that time itself began at the origin of the universe [1] when a "singularity" occured with energy[2] emanating in the form of pure light [3], that God would (in Hawking's argument) have necessarily existed before time began, yet (as Hawking says, quite correctly) there was no "before" time began.
Actually I'm disappointed and surprised at his incomplete conclusion, considering the first thing taught in physics is "dimensional analysis" and time is just one of four fundamental dimensions in our universe. (A fundamental dimension exists without means to define it, and cannot be described without using the nature of the dimension itself in the definition.) My argument therefore is, if an omnipotent deity were to create the universe, he would necessarily be external to the universe itself and not bound by its properties that He created.
My counterpoint to Hawking's argument is not Theology. It is merely a logical argument based on the universe's original dimensions and that creation by an omnipotent deity is, by definition, not bound in the time domain.
In conclusion, I postulate 1) that I am unable to prove the existence of God, but that 2) no one has yet demonstrated fully the non-existence of a deity.
[1] "in the beginning"
[2] "God created"
[3] "let there be light"
Thank you Texas. Why didn't "HE" intervene to begin with? The people who made it out of there were saved "by the grace" of God. If it was all that, then it shouldve been stopped in the first place. That boy shouldve passed in his sleep. One sick twisted life is worth sparing 26 don't you think? But people will say something stupid like "heaven needed 26 more angels!! I'm sure they would have wanted to live their lives out on earth instead. Illuminati people. Look it up.
DAVID: For the sake of all the families that have lost a love one please stop the hate. This is not the place for it. This is the coverage of their funeral. If you don't like listening to it, don't read it. Just may be some people are allow to have a priest say a few words before they bury their love ones.
Yes, this hate is rediculous. These negative comments from "intellectual" people regarding the Christ comment are no better than what the Westborro Baptist church does in the name of Christ. No one cares if you people hate Christians.....are we supposed to say "ohhhhhh, he's such an intellectual....." Nope, instead, we wonder why you are so unhappy.
Middle 226 " Nope, instead, we wonder why you are so unhappy."
I'm not unhappy. I'm just looking at ill manner people who do not respect anyone or anything. The only reason this is mentioned in the story is because it is a funeral. The family invited the guy. If you were intellectual, you would know the time and the place to discuss this. It is a story about a funeral. What was the priest suppose to say???? He wasn't there to please you. He was there to give the family comfort.
The best thing you can do for death is ride off from it. -Woodrow Call
Even though this teacher was very courageous, comparing her to Jesus Christ is disgraceful. No person on this earth can ever compare to Jesus and the sacrifice He has made for all of us. This media is going just a bit to far and milking this for all its worth. Shame on you.
Not everyone believes in your religion. This is not a forum to promote your religious agenda.
Your right it is disgraceful. The teacher tried to save lives but because of jesus and his BS teaching a religion was born that has directly resulted in millions of deaths. I would never want to be compared with that guy.
If you actually cracked open a bible it lays out the steps to become "christ-like"...
Directly responsible? Those who killed (Millions?, as in the millions atheistic communists killed just in the 20th Century alone? Back up your claim) in Christ's name were just Christians in name only. Christ's 'BS teaching' (as you put it) centered around loving your neighbor like yourself, forgiving others as you expect to be forgiven, and to obey God's Commandments. If you (and others) don't want to be compared to a guy who taught and lived that message, then it sounds like YOU are the one with the problem, not Christ.
itburnswhenipee:
Not everyone believes in your atheism. This is not a forum to promote your godless agenda.
".....in Christ's name were just Christians in name only."
That's pretty judgemental of you don't you think. Didn't know you decided who was and wasn't a christian.
I'll concede that his teachings were good- love, respect, honor. But his teachings THROUGH "god" bore a religion that has directly resulted in the death of millions. You can't argue that and by saying those people weren't christians is a cop out.
Jane just said above that science proves Christ existed. She said science hasn't proven that he rose from the dead YET. We're waiting, we're waiting, we're waiting...
Bill: If you get to promote Christianity, why can't we promote our so-called godless agenda? Freedom of speech? Freedom of religion? Freedom to NOT have a religion? Remember?
Not being personally judgemental at all, just going by the criteria as cited in the NT. I'm being as judgmental as when an atheist makes the unvalidated claim that Christianity killed 'millions' of people, while at the same time assumes that all of those participating in religious wars were indeed Christians...and all the while willfully ignoring the fact that individuals who proudly proclaimed themselves to be atheist (Mao, Pol Pot, Stalin, etc.) killed just as many Christians (something that was validated) and openly admitted and boasted about it when they did.
My point is, if Christians are as bad as atheists say they are, then atheists themselves are no better! Pot meet kettle.
SB: Have you read itburnswhenipees post? It's the same, and I agree totally with you. I was just pointing out his hypocrisy. --Bill also in Texas.
SB, you're getting on my nerves. I did NOT say that "Christ" existed. Give it up already! I said "Jesus" existed, but just as a man, not as Christ. He may have been someone who was suffering from mental illness and was delusional. Who knows? But a man who "professed" to be the Son of God walked the earth and was crucified. That's ALL we know.
Learn to spell. It's "too" not "to"
Bill 2967979
First, I find your comments very offensive. It is sad when a person feels the need to take a sad occasion to get on their soapbox. Jesus Christ didn't kill anyone. His life is only covered in Four Gospels. Men are corrupt and he warned us. Prove he killed or told someone to kill. You don't know anything about him.
His exact words that fit this: "But I warn you-unless your goodness is greater than that of the Pharisees and other Jewish leaders, you can't get into the Kingdom of Heaven at all! (The name Pharisee in its Hebrew
form means separatists, or the separated ones. They were also known as chasidim, which means loyal to God, or loved of God) found in the Sermon On The Mount.
He also said, "If you are slapped on one cheek, turn the other too. He was a pacifist. Gandhi knew him better and he wasn't even Christian but he used his teaching. So please don't come here and slam him.
Sorry Bill My complaint is with "The Middle1". Men kill and Christ didn't.
Middle1:
"You can't argue that and by saying those people weren't christians is a cop out."
If Christ ever came back to Earth he would be put to the cross again. This I know, but it should not stop people from trying to change for the better. "Humble men are ver fortunate! For the Kingdom of Heaven is given to them. Happy are those who strive for peace--they shall be called the sons of God."
This is the point. It is extremely hard to be a good Christian and it could get you killed, because he said, "don't resist violence!" This is the opposite of our nature.
Actually, there were several. That doesn't mean the Jesus myth was factually accurate.
At that time, it wasn't particularly unusual for someone to be erroneously declared dead - people really didn't have a clear sense of what constituted actual biological death. Although it wasn't a frequent event, it wasn't terribly unusual for someone thought to be dead to actually 'come back' to life (or, conversely, to be buried alive). This phenomenon persisted well into the middle ages.
You are clearly ignorant. Being a Christian in itself means being Christlike. Jesus himself said in John 15:13 "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lays down his life for his friends." Jesus laid down his life as did the teacher so the comparison is very valid; especially coming from a Cardinal.
Perhaps cover the joys of the victims for closure for those who have emotionally tied themselves to this otherwise far away event. But for the perpetrators, they should be anonymous forever - no reverence, no honor, nothing to make this seem in any manner "cool" lest the next on edge kid (twenty is a kid) try to one up the event. No magazine covers, no profiles, just John Doe a messed up kid from X committed the crime. Their face and name should not in any manner become pop culture.
As to the term "hero", the media has got to stop this negative label. The woman was not a hero for crouching in fear with a child and being killed. She was a normal compassionate human, not a soldier jumping on a hand grenade to save the villagers. Applying this label removes her humanity and is not what these stories are all about, our humanity. There were no heroes in this tragedy, only victims. Even the two women who reportedly lunged at the perpetrator were doing what they were trained to do, that's no heroism it is simply doing their job.
Finally, the specific quote is remarkably contradictory to the notion of being a hero as if she were like Jesus, then death would be an impossibility and therefore the idea of a sacrifice becomes impossible. When you are immortal, you cannot give your life for others. What an unsympathetic label to put on this poor women who in her last moments died with a child in her arms employing the most precious part of humanity.
The reference to Jesus was kinda tacky. She took the hit(s) to save her kids' lives. Jesus was the victim of a political assassination. It's almost 2,000 years, now. Where is he?
Since you asked-he is at the right hand of God. And he, like us, has his own will. He CHOSE to be killed...buy US, for US. Nothing plitical about that. It is all about LOVE. That is also what CHRISTmas is all about. LOVE.
...says someone who believes in this religion.
How can we have free will if "god" has a plan. One contradicts the other.
He does have a plan... and u can choose to be a part of it or not, there is your free will...
where is the contradiction? lol
"How can we have free will if "god" has a plan. One contradicts the other." You do not have to go along with the plan...do you really think Satan does? There are no contradictions...just lack of understanding and ignorance. And of course arrogant denial and rebellion-that is Satan's choice.
What are you in such a hurry for Him to come back? Are you ready? Probably not, so I suggest you prepare. SHEESH, I can't believe the outrageously ignorant and defensive comments spewed from the nonbelievers in these posts. Christianity is NOT a religion, people! It's a faith, a way of life. And if you're gonna quote the Bible, read and study it first with people who know it. You're just taking everything out of context as a means to your hateful end.
Bella
Do not get discouraged...it can happen here. Eyes on the prize!
So, by choosing to be apart of gods plan I give up my free will. That's exactly what you are saying here.
"You do not have to go along with the plan...do you really think Satan does?"
Clearly I don't by into the satan thing either so that's not a good argument.
"There are no contradictions...just lack of understanding and ignorance. And of course arrogant denial and rebellion-that is Satan's choice."
Well, here is your chance to educated me. Lets start by providing me proof that god exists, go!
Middle
You are all the proof I need that He exists. Thank you.
If Christianity is not a religion, then is Islam not a religion? Catholicism is not a religion? I once had someone ask me if Christ was a Christian. Come on, people. Use your heads.
What a cop out! Typical
Middle1,
Christianity would have never existed without Christ. This means you can focus on just Four Gospels. You don't have to be Christian to understand Christ's teachings. If you really want to know his message and don't want to read the Gospel read" The Kingdom of God is within You" by Leo Tolstoy. Tolstoy is the writer of "War and Peace". He is also the person who helped Mohandas Gandhi with his pasifist moment. The "Sermon of the Mount" is the best speech. There were nine Gospels but the others were too badly damage to read. It doesn't matter who exactly he was. What does matter is what he said in " The Sermon of Mount". It certainly help Martin Luther King as it did Gandhi.
I tell you, things like this makes a person wonder why God saved the human race at the time of the flood. The human race does not deserve to survive, think about all the people who take their own lives much less others, think about all the evil that is allowed to happen to children, think about how money is more valuable than a human being, think about all the people who are murdered because of religion, think about all the hungry and sick who cannot have the basic needs a human being should have because of the love of money, think about people who drug themselves out of their mind in an attempt to escape this horrible life, think about all the human beings who are paid millions and millions of dollars for a sport when others slave at minimum wage, thing about all the rich and powerful who are elected to benefit Americans and instead cater to the same as they are. I could go on and on but what for, it will make no difference at all. The only thing that is certain, Jesus will return one day and those who value money more than people, and those who kill and murder the innocent and especially the children will pay for it in eternity. Their just reward is coming. I used to pray to God to bless us but not anymore, I now pray and beg him to come and put an end to this. I am now a old man, and while I do not know how long the Lord will leave me here, I pray each and every day for him to take me home. I tell you now I really do not see how anyone can live these days without the belief and faith that some day if you believe in Jesus you wil go to a better place where there is no death, hunger,pain,sickness,evil. Come Lord Jesus Come.
Instead of praying for your life to end, as well as the world to end, maybe you could start on #26 acts of random kindness to help make the world a better place, and perhaps with continued human evolution, we may find heaven is right before us if only we had eyes to see!
So Cheyla, with "continued human evolution, we may find heaven is right before us"???? So where is heaven in the meantime? Are you saying we're not evolved enough to see it right now? Or are you one of a select few who do see it?
Yes, those random acts of kindness will save your soul. YIKES, you can start your own religion!
Sounds like someone is overwhelmed.
Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge him, and he will make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; fear the LORD and shun evil. This will bring health to your body and nourishment to your bones (Proverbs 3:5-8).
Gem217, I'll wage that humans can see "heaven" on earth before anyone sees a "soul" for which there is not a shred of evidence. We don't have to make things up because life is wondrous enough as it is - we, which includes me, just need to notice and appreciate the wonder that is our world!
(yawn)
go take your boring self somewhere else. Is this all too deep for you?
Bless all the people who have gone to Newtown to assist.
Comparing the actions of this brave woman to a myth is insulting to her memory. We should remember the light she brought into the world and be embarrassed, if not angry, that some religions are trying to empower themselves through this tragedy.
Maybe you're a myth, Cheyla. Ever think about that?
How do you know this woman didn't believe in Jesus? So your opinion that its insulting should overrule the pastor's opinion that she was " like Jesus"?... Or better yet, your opinion that its insulting should over rule how her friends and family choose to remember her deeds?...
Get over yourself
If you're responding to me, I said nothing about Anne Marie's beliefs at all. Yes, I believe the Cardinal's words were an insult to the meaning of the Crucifixion. I said she did a monumentally beautiful and courageous thing, but that didn't make her like Jesus.
If her funeral was at an RC church, presided by a cardinal - I'd go out on a limb and guess she could be a Catholic? Talk about insulting her memory, Cheyla... You're making assumptions about her faith. Your beliefs mean nothing at someone else's funeral: hers do.
Cheyla,Jesus may be a myth to you but for a great many others he is very real and your post is insulting to all of us and to this teacher who was obviously Catholic and believed in him as well.
DAZ55: Well, either he's a myth or he's real. Can't be both.
SB from Texas:
Here is a flash he is a myth to you and real to me. I believe Dinosaurs existed found their bones. I believe Christ existed because there are ancient text that talked about him. If you don’t believe that is your problem not my.
“A number of ancient non-Christian documents, such as Jewish
and Greco-Roman sources, have been used in historical analyses of the existence
of Jesus.[35] These include the works of 1st century Roman historians Josephus
and Tacitus.[35][36] Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that
"few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in
Antiquities 20, 9, 1 and it is only disputed by a small number of
scholars.[37][38][39][40] Bart D. Ehrman states that the existence of Jesus and
his crucifixion by the Romans is attested to by a wide range of sources,
including Josephus and Tacitus.”
“The Gnostic Gospels are a collection of about fifty-two
texts based upon the ancient wisdom teachings of several prophets and spiritual
leaders including Jesus, written from the 2nd to the 4th century AD. The
sayings of the Gospel of Thomas, compiled circa 140, may include some
traditions even older than the gospels of the New Testament, possibly as early
as the second half of the first century.[1] These gospels are not part of the
standard Biblical canon of any major Christian denomination, and as such are
part of what is called the New Testament apocrypha. Recent novels and films
that refer to the gospels have increased public interest.”
And then there are the four Gospel in the Bible. This is
good for me.
I don’t need to convince you. I don’t consider you all knowing. It
is illogical to say that we must both believe. I believe you are wrong.
I wasn't going to comment on this until Jane H's comment.
Jesus was never a real person, there is zero proof he ever existed as a person and all evidence points to the contrary that he is not real but rather another personification of Sol Invictus.
Without going into a thesis on the subject, the personification of astrological symbols with gods or heroes are nothing new. Look up in the night sky at Orion to confirm that.
Early Coptic christian images of jesus have symbolism that confuses modern worshipers but makes perfect sense when you consider jesus as yet another incarnation of Horus the sun god or Mithra the sun god.
Mithra, Horus, Attis, and several others featured in Roman, Greek, Persian, and Hittite mythology all coming before the story of jesus and believed in the same geographical region, the birthplace of christianity. Each story bearing undeniable resemblance to the story of jesus, with Horus almost being an exact fit.
Consider further how these stories came to be over millennium, handed down by word of mouth. It's not much of a stretch to think that the "Sun of god" was mistranslated as "the son of god".
There are remnants in Catholicism today of this sun worship, like Monstrance's,Ostensorium's, the Gold Disk over jesus's head in early pictures (which is identical to Helios), the crown of thorns (again Helios), and any number of references to astrotheology found in the bible.
So, in short, no, Jesus was not a real person any more than any other "heavenly body" in astrology. The story has just become so obfuscated and enforced by manipulation that the religion today resembles almost nothing of the original content.
If you want to test the theory, read the bible again with the idea that jesus is actually a personification of the sun, sitting at the lowest point in the sky on Dec 21st, staying there for the same amount of days it took for him to resurrect and beginning to ascend in the sky on Dec 24th for the resurrection and rebirth of the sun.
Also, it's important to remember that not only was the bible a document that was compiled by committee, but also under a political agenda.
If you feel I'm wrong, that's ok, but you really need to provide some substance to why you think I'm wrong other than the dogma or personal belief. These things are meaningless to someone that does not prescribe to the religion.
To Losghost:
There are 9 Gospels and 4 in the best conditions. Let look at the Gospel of Mark Greek probably 60 to 70 AD. Were you there to ask the writer if he was talking about a real person? I’m assuming you think the nine apostles aren’t real as well??? Yes ancient people spoke the Gospel to followers because they could not read. These Gospels are written after his death. Unless you got first hand confirmation from the writer that he is talking about a myth, then It’s YOUR THEORY.
Therefore it is up to the person to believe whether you are ALL KNOWING or not.
To Losghost,
"Consider further how these stories came to be over millennium, handed down by word of mouth. It's not much of a stretch to think that the "Sun of god" was mistranslated as "the son of god".
This line has a real problem. Christ died approximately 32-34 AD around the Gospel of Mark is dated around 60 to 70AD. This is not a millennium.
There are problems with this argument.
I guess I would agree with you, however, seeing as how these stories we being told in Egypt around 3100 BCE, then I would say there are problems with your argument. Mine is sound.
The gospel is not the origination of the stories. I think that's what you failed to understand in my original post.
I think the press and people talking about this tragedy are beginning to believe their own words. Let's be honest, it is a tragedy and hopefully will not happen again but lets get on with life and quit talking this over and over. It is becoming like these people were saints and they were teachers and students who left this earth too early but that is it. The priest went way too far on this one.
this cardinal made a point about this teachers live, putting her live for the sake of her kids.everyone understands what he was implying.does everything have to be put under a microscope.what he said was kind and thoughtful and should be well taken.whether a person is a believer or not.obvious as it is ,he is a person of faith,probally catholic so he gave his thought in the way that he thinks and in a way that he lives.if he was a doctor maybe it would have been done in a medical way.it would be nice just to accept what a person says that doesn't really need a explanation or even a critique.the main thing is putting our thoughts and prayers toward those who lost their loved ones .
Like Jesus? Not quite so. The Christ-figure in the New Testament claimed knowledge of a life beyond this one. This woman's death was actually more like that of a soldier on a battlefield...she gave her life with no knowledge of what may or may not follow this life, just like a soldier...dying is quite a different experience under those circumstances, and, in my opinion, is a truer example of real sacrifice
Using the Cardinal's logic ;Every soldier, police officer and fireman are like Jesus when they sacrifice their lives to defend others. Kinda makes Jesus extermely COMMON..Would that make every catholic pedophile priest like SATAN then?
I suspect the Cardinal would feel exactly the same about ANY person who gave their life in this manner. Now , of course YOU may not because there is some strange logic circulating in your head. "Oh I can't say the teacher is like Jesus, because I'm not mentioning every fireman and police man who gave their lives to help others . So I can't say this in any meaningful way" How cow! What sort of ##@$% ed up logic is that?
Also, although I'm not exactly what would be called "religious", (don't remember the last time I was in a church) I'm beginning to get tired of all this stupid pedophile priest stuff. There are bad people through the whole world who will find ways to get access to vulnerable children and to do so by taking advantage of good organizations who are perhaps too simplistic or naïve about properly managing issues like this. I don't exactly know the CC from its religious side, but I have had a lot of contact with it in charitable organizations like Catholic Charities and I have met many priests and others who are highly dedicated and good people, they would do anything for someone in need and they don't try to make themselves out as better than anyone else.
So give it a rest buddy. Its getting old!
BobW-3215303,
So you CHOOSE not to believe in God's plan???? You trying to prove there is a contradiction is a contradiction in itself lol..
free will (dictionary.com)
noun
1. free and independent choice; voluntary decision: You took on the responsibility of your own free will.
2. Philosophy . the doctrine that the conduct of human beings expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces.
So... if God's plan was to take away your free will... how is it you can make a choice to not go along with his plan?... Sounds like you have plenty free will to me... On to the next argument...
Seems like Satan is beating the snot out of God..So much for God's plan..New Name: Satans Plan
We don't all CHOOSE to not believe. I don't know because I have seen no proof, nor has anyone ever, to show s/he/it does exist. Your argument is that we have free will to be apart of gods plan. So by freely deciding to follow gods plan I freely give up my free will. That's what you are saying here
Gods Plan? Sucks pretty badly as of late
TheMiddle1: Perhaps she has forgotten the scripture that discusses predestination. Not that I believe any of the biblical myths anymore, but I do know the bible. (Three years of seminary.) I find that so many bible-thumpers can only quote certain sections of the bible, and have never even read the entire book.
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SB, and yet when you debate someone on their religion the only source they have to defend their side is the bible. Every time I debate someone on this topic the usual response is "The bible says....".
Bella.Angel.
You present what's called an "ought-is" fallacy.
Consider:
1. God gave you fee will
2. God has a plan
3. Therefore your free will allows you to choose gods plan or not.
This is a logically sound conclusion based on the premise being presented. The problem lies in that the premise being stated in 1, that god even exists at all, has failed to be proven. If you cannot prove 1 then the entire statement fails and the conclusion in 3 cannot logically be reached.
Let's go a step further, let's grant you 1 and examine 2.
God has a plan.
You see, there cannot be a plan, without there being things developed in advance. If things are planned, then they are predetermined, if they are predetermined, then you cannot have free will. They are mutually exclusive.
This very vague reference to a plan has been placed on all sorts of things, like the Pharaoh of Egypt, to school shooters, to the early demise of loved ones.
Every one of those examples is based on a personal, subjective focal point. God has a plan, he saved that little girl from the killer.
Well, if it was the will of the killer to kill the girl god intervened, is that still free will on the killers part? What about the people that were not intervened for, was that free will?
If god has to manipulate anyone as part of the plan, as he did with the Pharaoh, is that free will?
It seems with evry passing day,the stories emerging from this massacre get sadder and sadder. My God, a special ed teacher holding a special ed student in her arms as they were both killed. This story broke me down and im not ashamed to say im still crying as i type this. I hope Gos blesses all the victims and their families.
Whoever started the trend of placing stuffed animals and flowers at the sight of a tragedy, should be slapped. There are thousands of kids, who won't get a thing and would love to have a stuffed animal.
Perhaps one of the more intelligent comments here.
Truman, I'm not sure if you are thinking this is a selfish act or a waste of plush toys, candles, photos, etc.
I'm sure you realize that a lot of people do this as part of their grieving process. I admit that I am not one of them.
But I understand that it is important to so many including the school kids and adults who want everyone to know that these children are loved and will be remembered. These toys are a memorial to lost lives and not wasted even though it may seem so.
I am one of those people who cringes at the sight of a cross and makeshift memorials along the highway when someone loses their life in an auto accident. Its no my thing. But, there are those who feel its necessary to remind everyone.
Truman: Interesting perspective. My husband and I always comment on the hundreds of millions of dollars that are paid to go see meaningless movies, when hundreds of thousands of children could be fed, animals could be saved, etc. on that amount.
I agree with you. I know it's part of some peoples grieving, but think of the happiness of a child, who has nothing, being given these stuffed animals.
I have heard that in similar instances (memorial gifts) a lot of what you see placed is given to hospitals etc.
They have been gathering the toys and donating them to local hospitals