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In 1964 Norma and Bob Clark had a wonderful wedding in Northern California. Everything was perfect.
Nearly five decades later, the happily married couple, now in their seventies, live in Redlands.
But while getting paperwork in order in case one of them passed away, they made a somewhat disturbing discovery -- they were never legally married, because they had no marriage license.
"I couldn't find it, and couldn't find it for a reason, because it wasn't there," Norma Clark said.
When couples get a marriage license, the person who then marries them must return the license to their county record office, where it becomes a marriage certificate.
Read more from NBCLosAngeles.com
The pastor who married the Clark's apparently never did that.
Bob Clark went to the San Bernardino County Hall of Records to try to fix everything. The couple first told the story to the Redlands Daily Facts.
"I just went in there thinking I could just do it, and she said, 'No, no, you have to have witnesses,'" Clark said.
"Well, you know most people at our wedding are dead. If we had waited a couple more years, we would have been in trouble,” he added.
'You Can Be Right' investigates modern love and marriage
Luckily, the Clarks had their old maid of honor and junior usher in town for the holidays. The four of them, among others, finally made it official.
The Clarks' son, Alex, got to attend the second marriage.
“My sister and I, we just kind of joked that we didn't have to throw them a 50th anniversary party anymore," he said.
Norma Clark said their friends in Redlands had teased them, wanting to know when the reception would be.
And they have some advice: Check your marriage license.
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Good that they were getting their "when we die" paperwork together. After one of my friends became a widow, she told me, "If I'd known that there would be so much paperwork after he died, I would have gone first." She and other widows told me that it took a month if the deceased was organized. My dad, it took a year after he died for the paperwork to get done--no one knew about where he had bank accounts, safe deposit boxes, etc.
Marriage should be between your spouse, you, and your god if you believe in one. You should be able to go and get married by a priest or anyone else and not tell the government. Want to try it in the land of the free (USA?) you'll get arrested. Why? Because marriage is about money, taxes, who pays for kids, who get subsidies and who gets inheritance and all the rest of the financial details. It isn't above love or same sex marriage or whatever else we would think it should be. It is a legal construct and contract with society (and it always has been since the dawn of modern man) to obey the rules, pay your dues, get paid, and keep society running in an organized fashion. Sorry, I did not make these rules, I came on the scene at least 5000 years later.
Totally agree Glen. The govt has no business either approving or disapproving of a love union. We actually have to sign up on a govt record establishing the legitimacy of our love? My love is legitimate because I say so, not because the govt says so.
My GF and I have been together for quite a while and we have no plans to get married. We both are divorced and remember the mess that govt involvement with our personal lives caused. We refuse to participate in this system again, though we plan on living the rest of our lives together.
I strongly advise other couples to do the same if they do not plan on having kids. Oh yeah, you don't have to have kids either if you don't want to. It isn't mandatory. Many people, if they knew how expensive kids are and how much you have to sacrafice to be a good parent, would never actually choose to be a parent. Better to not have any if you are not willing to pretty much put your whole life on hold for 20 years while raising the child. If you are willing and can do it, go for it.
Marriage weakens relationships. It makes both people stop trying. It gives you a false sense of permanence to your relationship, as if it could not possibly die. So people stop trying to please their partner as they did before they were married because now they have a 'contract'. But the reality is that if you once were attractive, pleasant, and fun to be around, and now you no longer keep up with things; married or not you are gonna ruin that relationship and probably get divorced too. When you are not married, you try every day. So the relationship thrives.
You only have to have the government approve the union IF you want the government benefits. If you want to keep filing single then by all means don't worry about having the government approve your marriage.
Now if you want to have the benefits and NOT get government approval then forget it...that would open a HUGE path into fraud of taxes and other expenditures.
Philosopher8 Sadly if one of you should pass away, living together without marriage will leave the other with a mess. I have just experienced this myself and am currently fighting to retain my home. It has now cost me over 18k to fight greedy children. Yes there was a will but it was destroyed. Yes there was planning but it really means nothing.
undocumented marriage...finally the media used the word properly...this twisted political correctness crap...pisses me off...
While I agree with you guys that we have way too much government in our lives, it needs to be pointed out that marriage is a public contract, not a private one. If two people get married, the rest of society needs to know about it so that no one makes social demands of a married person that are appropriate only for someone who is single. That is to say, so that a man doesn't make the mistake of asking a married woman on a date, or of misinterpreting her emotional coolness towards him, or any other such errors. Real problems can result if it is kept a secret who's with who. So, when two people get married, society witnesses it, and society pitches in to support it. For that reason, there's some legitimacy in government involvement in the whole thing; we all know for sure that Mr. and Mrs. Smith are married, because there's a record of it down at the county clerk's office.
On the other hand, should it take a year or more to sort things out when somebody dies? No, and that's a sign that some things have gotten way out of hand. Government has some legitimate roles, but government these days squashes our freedoms, gets us into stupid wars, smothers the economy, kills some people, molests others, pushes us around, and generally creates way more problems than it solves. We the people need to somehow get the genie back into the bottle-- a small, cheap, second-hand, piece-of-junk little bottle that we can put on the shelf and forget about, instead of a bottle that costs 40% of our GDP.
Alamanach-
You are correct in that the marriage license is a way for records a contract between two people so in that society it is recognized. In going back into history, at one time it was the duty of the Priest to record in the Church the union of a couple.The ceremony was performed in the Church with the villagers witnessing the union.Thus the newly married couple was then introduced to everyone and their new social standing recognized. People now days use newspapers to do the same, and marriage licenses instead of books. Basically the government is the church now.
Tammy1021
I can appreciate what you are going through. I had a brother who lived with his common law wife, she had MS and was in a wheelchair. He spent 27 years with her. During which he completely renovated her rundown, seven bedroom home in Dallas,TX. She promised she would leave him the house. My brother put his heart into the home, had a garden and grew their own food. She could never travel so we didn't get to see him all those years. Then she suddenly passed away last year in January.
He never found her will, and her children refused to let him have the house. Since it was now quite an asset, due to his hard work. GO figure!Even though they knew it was her wishes. After fighting in court for a long time, they got the house, he got nothing. The judge said, all he needed was a marriage license, and asked why my brother never got around to getting one. He told the judge, he never thought he needed one. That it was just a piece of paper.A few days before he was to leave the home last year in September, my brother had a heart attack. We believe from the stress and died, he was only 56.
For all those who say, love is all you need, a marriage license doesn't mean anything and is just a piece of paper, the government wants to keep tabs on you, I say it guarantees you rights, more than just a will, which can be challenged by relatives. According to his attorney.
Sorry to hear about your troubles Tammy.
All of my life insurance and disability insurance are in her name alone. I have no kids - she has 2. I expect all of her estate to go entirely to her kids - I'm not the guy to get in the way of proper inheritance like others I know have. We recently talked about making wills and living trusts and we will do that next year. I think she is covered for when I go, because there is nobody to contest anything and everything is in her name. As for me, well I expect nothing from her if she dies before me. It isn't a big deal to me. When we buy a house together in a few years, my name will be there right on the title with hers, so I don't see how my end is at risk. Basically, I know that my end is not bulletproof, but her end is since all my insurance is in her name.
Sorry to hear about those greedy children. I have had similar difficulties on the other side of the coin with a greedy step-father. That's why I am not taking a cent away from her kids no matter what.
This is government bureaucracy at its best. Some of this depends on what state you live in. Some states recognize common law marriage. Now are the federal and state governments going to make this elderly couple go back and amend all their tax returns to filing as single vs. married?
NC has made it much easier on survivng spouses when there is a will in place. I recently took my father-law-law to the county court house to file his deceased wife's will and the matter was closed in less than 10 minutes. I was amazed because this was not the case when my parents passed and I was the executor of their estates. It took over a year to get everything closed out.
I agree with Philosopher and Gentleman with two caveats: (1) You don't have to invite the government into your family even if you want children. Children will always be protected under the law and the parents will always be required to support them under the law even if the parents don't have a government "license" or permit to be together for life. (2) Yes, nowadays the government "license" to commit for life is all about taxes and government benefits, but this is a form of discrimination against non-marrried couples that will sooner or later be found unconstitutional. I do not believe it is constitutional for the government to discriminate based on civil status. NOTE: The government gets confused when it tries to regulate personal relationships as evidenced by the silly anomalies that occur with same-sex relationships and legitimate polygamy (yes, polygamy is recognized as legitimate throughout the non-western world, not just by Mormons.) I too am in heterosexual for-life relationship and neither of us has the slight inclination to invite the government in.
Just a note to all: There's a marriage license and a marriage certificate--two different things! Make sure you have copies of both. One of my friends at the office is retiring this week, and for insurance reasons she needed a copy of one of them (I forget which). She took in one, and it was the other one that was needed, and it was the only one that would be accepted. She went somewhere else, for another part of her retirement package, and it was the other way around. So get both.
Best wishes to the happy couple in this story. It's remarkable and wonderful that they have weathered the storms of life so well. Congratulations.
You're a smug a** if you avoid marriage because "it messes everything up."
WRONG. It's the two parties within the marriage that screw it up. The burden is on THEM if either has a wandering eye, becomes an adulterer, abandons children or the other spouse, et al.
The one poster earlier was content to not get married (even though both in this "convenience relationship" already f*cked up and are both divorced from an earlier marriage.
Ever since the WASPs of the 1950s began pushing divorce as an acceptable event in the course of lives, it has eroded the sanctity and seriousness of monogamous marriage.
Look at all the losers who marry in the early 20s only to have 1 or 2 divorces already by age 30!
If you really WANT something and want to KEEP it, people find a way...
Modern American society sees divorce as the convenient way to "get out" regardless of the emotional, spiritual or parenting obligations. If divorce is eradicated, see how much more legitmate the marriages become and people stop dating for the sake of a blow job or booty call...
Glenn, please take your conspiracy BS somewhere else. "try it in the land of the free (USA?) you'll get arrested" it's called "living together" and millions are doing it quite legally.
Marriage laws vary by state. In some states living together for certain periods of time gives you particular rights. In other states, if it's not legal it doesn't matter.
Glenn, Philosopher et al, can you imagine the loss of business for lawyers, JP's and the entire court systme etc. if you eliminate government from the marriage contract business! But then think of all those people who have underpaid their taxes filing 'Married' ... YOU guys have solved the Fiscal Cliff crisis!!! Though you would also put Michelle off the LGBT pulpit if you did that ... so you would be a racist too ... okay, shame on the both of you!
As much as I'd like to say "sorry", I'm not. Any idea what it's like to be married for a decade and NEVER have it 'accepted' even though it's a legal marriage?? Any idea how much planning you have to do for "just in case of accident or death" that gay couples have to do? My wife won't ever get a dime of my social security, and will have to pay estate taxes, etc. on any property I leave her because our union of 10 years isn't 'recognized'. I know where my marriage certificate is, too! Each purchase of a vehicle, etc. means careful planning so that if something should happen to one of us, the other is protected. We never get any of those over 1000 legal benefits and protections from the federal government. Try being married but forced by your government to lie and declare yourself single on your taxes and any other documents. This couple should have tried to live this way their entire marriage. THEN they'd see what it's really all about, and how lucky they were to be born straight in this 'free country'!
Does this mean they have to give all the wedding presents back?
Philosopher, I know a number of marriages that are successful. My parents for example have been married for 33 years(and still act like a couple of newlyweds sometimes) and I know quite a few others who have been married for quite a few years. A few 50 and 60 years married. And while there is no reason to just "let yourself go", there is still something called love and commitment. Unfortunately, I haven't found that yet myself but I still know it's somewhere.
@Elkmeadow - no truer words could have been spoken...with slightly grim humor, but so very true.
When my father died, my mother spent months finding and going through all the paperwork involved: insurance, benefits, pensions, Social Security, and countless other organizations both government and private that needed death certificate copies and endless pages of documents filled out. I only saw about a fifth of what she had to deal with and even that was overwhelming. She had no time to really grieve after the funeral because of all that bureaucratic crap. And my father was born organized.
@Jerry - that's funny but I'd seriously like to find a 1964-era kitchen appliance that still works and hasn't long since been buried in a landfill. Those old school toasters and waffle makers were the best (because they weren't crap made in China and instead made here in America). Many people collect things from that era and are worth serious bucks today if they still work.
The government does care whether you love each other or not. A marriage license/certificate is a legal contract. If you don't care about the legal aspects of marriage, then go without it. We're long past the time that we arrested people for "fornification."
I wonder if the IRS or the state will now come after them for filing false tax returns for 48 years. They would have paid higher taxes filing as unmarried individuals rather than as a married couple. Of course I would hope that even the bureaucratic IRS would not do something like this, but you never know.
It is a good thing that they found this out before one of them died. Could you imagine the nightmare if they had not. There would have been all kinds of problems from Social Security survivor benefits to inheritance to who knows what else.
Excellent point JS - I didn't even think about the IRS issue if they filed jointly all these years. Now THAT is scary. Especially since the current administration has hired thousands more IRS people to handle Obamacare. They'll have plenty of resources now to take on this pesky couple (and personally, if they tried it, I'd pack my bags and haul A outside of America to retire like a lot of people are pondering these days, myself included).
When my dad died it took my siblings and I about a month to deal with his personal business. First we had to get past the funeral planning (took about 2 days, but only because he had done a lot of pre-planning beforehand), we had to get through the burial and intense grieving. Most good funeral homes will offer to obtain the necessary death certificates for you, yes it costs a little bit more but it is really a good idea. After that it was just a matter of sending notifications and getting paperwork sent.
It took us about 6 weeks with my mother some 10 years prior to our dad's passing. Ask around, make a plan and please keep your most important documents in a place that at least two loved ones will be able to get at them in a reasonable amount of time.
While I agree that the "marriage certificate" is a public and state contract, it is those state benefits that make people want the state approval. If you don't want to be married, that's fine, but then you wouldn't be getting the benefits either (lower taxes if you are in a lower income bracket, Social Security for surviving spouse, etc.).
For many, there are no benefits to marriage. For women: my spouse makes a lot more money than I do. So, can I go back to school on a government grant? No, because of his income. It might have been cheaper in the long run to pay taxes as two singles so that I could get those benefits. And if the Republicans do away with Social Security, I will have no reason at all to have the Marriage Certificate, except as a memento in a scrapbook. My husband has cancer, and I will not be getting any benefits for years after he dies anyway.
While love can keep people together for their whole lives, there are also financial and public concerns for any person, more so for a couple. Very often, the laws do not take into account what the reality is. Every person needs to save, and in the economy for the last 40 years, that has been difficult.
I wish this couple well, and they certainly do deserve a 50th wedding celebration from their family.
Wow -- I can't believe how many anti-government whackjobs have crawled out to comment on this article. What makes it particularly funny is that if you go back and actually read what happened, it was their Pastor (get it -- the CHURCH) that screwed up the paperwork, not the government. That being said, though, I'm pretty sure that every state recognizes common-law marriages. The details may vary from one state to another, but I'm willing to bet that living together as husband and wife for 48 years would qualify anywhere. As for the IRS paranoids, I guess you're all unaware that they have been paying MORE tax as joint filers than they would have if they had been filing singly. (Two single deductions are greater than one joint deduction, and their top marginal rate has been based on their combined income, rather than each one's own personal income.) So I'd suggest that you all just take a Valium and chill out.
I'm sorry....exactly WHAT does the IRS have to do with ObamaCare?????
Don't be so sure, Jhawke! I'm still using the oven my parents bought in '63, the refrigerator they bought in '64, and even the blender they bought in '66. All work fine! I'm also still using the plug-in frying pan, the popcorn popper, the blender and a toaster all made in the early- to mid-60's. There's a freezer in the basement from the 50's that's still running fine. They don't make stuff like that anymore. Maybe I should put them on e-bay or even give them to Christie's Auction House. I might be able to retire in style.
It only takes years to sort stuff out if the decedent was disorganized. This is not the government's fault. Government, legitimately, wants to assure that creditors get paid, and the heirs the deceased wished to have the estate get it. When my neighbor died, inconveniently and unplanned at about 11:00 p.m., she had NOTHING in place and her poor daughter who was distraught had to figure out what to do with the body not to mention later the estate!
Jerry, I can do you better. My grandmother's 1940's toaster that I use at my house works way better than the one I bought recently for my vacation home.
Wants to know,
I can appreciate your toaster. I found a huge 1949 white GE electric stove, mint condition, porcelain over steel with chrome trim,four burner, oven, side and bottom storage sections. Lots of bells and whistles.Dang, the back looks like the dash board of a car with all the knobs, dials, long under mounted night light.Then all the different back lit color push buttons for each burner that work their way up to hot rod red for highest temp.You think you're in a space rocket
Fits perfect in my 1856 stone home.Sold by a couple who bought it as newlywed who now were moving to a retirement home.
Love is love, it's real, regardless if it's legal or not.
48 years of love ... even not legal...is worth it.
illegal but real love is better than legal but fake love
Wow! Is it the pop-up kind, or the one that opened from the sides? I still remember those, from when I was a little kids. I had an aunt and uncle, who were born sometime in the fourteenth century, who had one of those on their farm. We're talking early sixties. Their electricity was generated by a windmill, and they had only about four plugs scattered throughout their house and they could only use three at a time. It was like the farm from Green Acres.
Holy cow! Have you thought about renovating your house into a "retro" style? It would be a fanstasic step back into history. A friend of mine did that, restoring his home to the '40's with all the art-deco, including in appliances (and ingeniously hiding anything beyond that, like a modern TV set, in cabinets from that era). A few times a year, his house is open to the public. As people tour it (and the money goes to a local charity), it's filled with the sounds of Glenn Miller, et. al. Volunteers spend hours outfitting in the look of the 40's as they give tours. You would think the Andrew Sisters have come back to life. There is even a Christmas tour, where the tree is decorated with bubble lights with the thick, heavy, cloth-covered cords. It looks like a scene from A Christmas Story.
@gena Under the Obamacare bill, the IRS has been charged with the task of making sure everyone in the USA has medical coverage. Failure to do so will result in the IRS levying a fine against those who dont follow the law.
As other posters have already mentioned, these folks have technically filed 48 years of fradulent tax returns as they filed Married Filing Jointly as opposed to two single people. I just hope that common sense prevails here, and these folks are left alone.
It's Obamas fault. He started this whole trend of not having proper documentation. And I know this for a fact...Donny Trump told me so.
(I apologize for injecting politics into this boring article...at least I didn't inject religion so that all of the athiest snobs could pretend that they are enlightened)
(Oops...now I've injected religion into this...cause we all know athiesm is a religion [they have no proof there is no God...they go on blind faith that there isn't and that we all evolved even though the theory of eveolution changes weekly...now that's faith!])
Anyways...since I'm on a roll...let's talk about abortion and gun control too...and Rush and PLEASE OH PLEASE can we start talking about Sarah Palin again??!! I'm getting concerned that she is becoming irrelevant...and that's just wrong cause she is so damn fun!
"I can see the church from my bedroom so I must be going to heaven!"
Shut up idiot. And I don't even like Obama.
AT least they were STRAIGHT!!!
@Philcommander; what you be smokin? gots too be some fine hooch! you sellin any????????
Who is Obama?
Philcommander. Very good! You write with sharp witty sarcasm. I miss Sarah as well(Iwant to have secret dirty sex with her, Oh Lord, these filty thoughts), please distract me from the filth and incompetence of D.C.
so what is the IRS going to do about all those years of misfiling?
Phil: thanks for that!
obama...will call it illegal...not undocumented...he like's to twist words up you know...he does...
Bush was far worse than any other president. Illegal WAR and our country is in debt BECAUSE OF HIM. Buffoons
No, the worst president ever was this guy who was the president of our local swim club. What a moron. He had the intellect of Beavis and Butthead...everytime he said "breast stroke" he chuckled.
HE was the worst president ever!
I'Mnot,1st of all,is there really such a thing as a legal war?2nd This country has not been in the black ink for a very very very long time.It was'nt just Bush's fault.Let's wait and see how much the current president spends.Just a fair question for you.If Obama spends even more money are you still going to blame Bush for it four years from now?
PhilCommander, your post was by FAR the most entertaining! You sound like a fun (and intelligent) guy to be around!! Touche!
As to this couple, I'm wondering how they made it lo' these many years without a marriage certificate. I have copies of my marriage certificate and all birth certificates for myself, my husband and our children in a safe. These are kind of the "basics" for doing paperwork in this day and age. In fact, the first thing I did after I got married was to go to my county vital records and purchase a copy of my marriage certificate.
@MER1962 ... out of curiosity, while you have copies of the marriage certificate, have you ever needed to present it?
Thats right blame Obama again-
I am still waiting for someone to say that its the Presidents fault because he is constipated.
What a shock to find out you are not legally married after all these years!! Um ... maybe I had better go check to make sure our marriage license was turned in!!
It seems like they would have needed the certificate when applying for Social Security (if one of them applied for spousal benefit.) It would probably be needed for a widow to receive VA benefits (not in that situation yet, but after the vet dies, it would be too late.)
Did they have to file amended taxes, to change filing status from 'married filing jointly' to 'single'? - what a windfall for the accountant.
The article didn't mention children - if there were any, who had to tell them they were legally bastards? This is the stuff that makes a good sitcom plot.
Mailman8, If you read the article you would find this stuff.
To my understanding of the article. They had witnesses from the original marriage sign. They made their 48 year old marriage legal. All other nonsense is just that, nonsense.
This is exactly why the civil contract (marriage license which should technically be called a civil union contract) and the religious ceremony (Holy Matrimony) need to be totally separated. When a couple applies for their license, that should be the only requirement, just have two witnesses there to sign off on the license with the couple and they are legally "married". No judge, no justice of the peace, etc. required. The recording clerk processes the paperwork in front of the witnesses and the contract is complete (that is exactly what that license is...a contract between two individuals... irregardless of sexual orientation of the two individuals). All 1400+ laws related to "marriage" all need to be amended to read "civil union" and that is exactly what the license should also read.
I don't think a marriage between a man and a women is legal in Ca.? is it?
in california you can marry the person of your choice...they don't even have to say yes...just walk up and say we're married now give me your money...
anti-trust proponent
Most exellent comment! I've often thought the same. By following the path you outlined the entire issue of gay marriage can also be resolved without trampling on anyone's religious freedom either.
The husband is a schmuck. He had a chance to do it all over again and this time sneak away and be free, but he married her again. There's no fool like an old fool.
He missed his chance; he could now be sitting on the beach in the Philippines with a good cigar, a nice drink with the little umbrella in it, and a beautiful young woman fawning over him and all on a monthly social security check.
it would be pretty lonely when you get tired of handing out the cash. At least for most spouses, we stick around when the going gets tough.
Zheng He, Obviously you don't live on a Social Security check! There's no good cigars, umbrella drinks, or young women in the budget when you're living on Social Security!
Wow, you're just a ray of sunshine, aren't you, Fre?
OldDog47:
Maybe you've never been to the Philippines. Give it a try.
I seem to have lost track of my marriage certificate after my divorce, :o)
OldDog47 : There is in the Philippines, with money left over each month.
Also easy to believe the minister turned it in but the County Registrar lost the paper or didn't file it for some
reason. What does it matter..............they made it 50 years CONGRATUALATION ON THAT.
Glad they caught the mistake for legal reasons before it became an issue.
A religious marriage is no good unless you have a legal marriage on file as far as the government is concerned. Remember, render unto Cesar.
Get it taken care of people. I found a 50K CD in a magazine that my dad was using as a book mark. The best way, is to have everything in both names, and if one goes before the other, it's easy. You don't need a marriage license or even a Will. I would also suggest if you have kids that you trust and you are left by yourself, to put everything you have in all names, especially your bank safe box. This way, there is no probate and no lawyers.
I know, I went through this years ago.
My Daddy always told me, "Dot your I's, and cross your T's; you never know." Since we have our marriage certificate, I would assume that all's well...
However...
We eloped, and were married on Saturday...The courthouse was closed, so we were directed to a little building around the corner.....It happened to be a real estate office.....We really never did know exactly WHO the lady that married us was.....
So, maybe I better go check, 'cause...You never know!
The real estate office???? Yeah, I'd say you better go check!
I'm with Tony. You might have bought a hosue instead of getting married!
Just goes to show, you don't need a contract endorsed by the state to be in a loving relationship for a long time.
Marriage is idiotic; a construct of organized religion. It's like saying I need a contract between me and my best friend.
When you marry, you just put yourself in legal and financial jeopardy; particularly men. And, unlike normal contracts, there is no penalty for the moving party if one or the other decides to end the contract. Quite the opposite really; the moving party nearly always benefits financially and socially.
It is a construct of government. Call it religion, call it society, call it what you like. It is over 5000 years old.
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion.
How does congress (or a state) pass a laws that authorizes collecting license fees or a tax to get married?
How does a state pass laws which respect the now established religion of atheism contrary to the world religions?
Something seems very wrong.
I believe the government should no longer issue marriage licences but perhaps in the alternative procreation licenses.
See my post above AS. Marriages existed long before the "church" got involved with its ceremonies. Marriage was a contract between two families in most societies throughout history. It had nothing to do with religion in any of those earlier societies/cultures. The constitution does provide for such "licensing/taxation" because that license/tax is a civil issue, not a religious issue.
Marriage is not a religious event. Holy Matrimony is.
As was pointed out a few times in this vine, marriage predates known religion.
Seems religion wants to claim everything as theirs.
There's nothing wrong at all. You don't need to pay a fee or a "tax" to get married in a church. You only need to pay the fee if you want that marriage to be recognized by the state. It is all up to you.
I was thinking that even if they weren't "legally" married, they'd be common law married -- which is still a legal marriage -- but it turns out that California doesn't actually have common law marriages. So yeah, that could have become awkward for them.
But California does have to recognize common-law marriages if you come from a state where they are legal. My first husband and I came from Colorado and we were legal.
I wonder if they will have to pay back Social Security Services for collecting off of each other? This could go deeper if you think this is, "Just being a boring story".
Just think all those years claiming a dependent on your pay check?
Vincent you may be right. Telling the press this story could actually be the worst thing they ever did legally if the government really decided to press the issue, love and family be damned.
To my understanding of the article. They had witnesses from the original marige sign. They made their 48 year old marrige legal. All other nonsense is just that, nonsense.
Vincent, You obviously have no experience with Social Security, and not a clue what you're talking about! And Glen, your scenario would be a net loser for the government, unless there were some really unusual circumstances. Been there, done that!
It happened to me many years ago and I found out in the middle of a divorce and had to pay for a divorce anyway. Many years later (in the state of Fla) I had no marriage license to show my name change...I had many trips to the drivers license bureau and even contacted the minister (his first wedding) somehow I got my license but almost did not. It was a huge problem and an usolvable one. When you tell the story I don't think alot of people believe me...just me and the woman at the drivers license bureau who spoke with the minister. Motor vehicle would not even let people in who did not have their documents...that being one of them...I had a time just getting to the woman who takes the applications. The woman at mortor vehicle mentioned that there are people in my age group (seniors) that eloped and it was so long ago they did not know where and they had the same problem.
My wife almost couldn't fly back from Hawaii with us because her dad had listed her on the tickets as a Mrs., but her driver's license was in her maiden (and professional) name.
We didn't have a marriage license with us, but they finally agreed that between her parents, me, and our children all agreeing, it was pretty likely she was the person named on the ticket.
She now keeps a copy in her purse.
We had a hotel refuse to give us a room on our honeymoon because we had no proof that we were married.
Of course all my wife's documents were in her maiden name.
When will the IRS be paying a visit about all of those illegal filings as a married couple ;)
The government has no business being involved in marriage.
Until all americans have equal marriage rights, then the government has no choice but to stay involved.
Loving Vs Virginia - April 10, 1967 US Supreme Court Ruling - Marriage is a Civil Right.
I thought the headlines initially meant "public" unions. Which should be.
I hope they take a nice honeymoon.. :)
Why is ANYONE susrprised about this - the couple lives IN CALIFORNIA!!!!!!!!!!!
Stereotyping at its worst, JP. This could have happened anywhere - and it probably has; the couples just don't realize it! Try widening that narrow-minded, stereotyping brain of yours. You'll be a better person for it.
Marriage is not/should not be a state matter. The state/county should only get involved in a dissolution. Just like any business partnership.
Marriage is in and of the heart, and this couple was not only common law- but absolutely married.
Of course it is a state matter, because the state is a participant in the contract by virtue of tax breaks and so forth.
Enjoy your 2nd honeymoon!
I think I would have kept this hushed. Now, if their medical/health insurance company gets wind of this, they will be paying alot back into the fund if one of the relied on the others insurance.
WOW! They really must be Happily married! If it was me after hearing that after 48yrs that would be my ticket out!
"Old Maid of Honor" Now that is some terrific writing!
only a really traditional family would worry about it after 48 years.in the old days, people proclaimed their love and devotion in a simple ceremony before god and friends, and for hundreds of years that was enough, until religion got 'official', now its just a scam to make things look good. just think, we're the only animal on the planet that needs someone elses permission to love someone or take a mate...aren't we special..lol.
Who says that you need someone else's permission for either? You are free to love or take a mate without a marriage certificate. Just don't expect the government to recognize the marriage.
By Jacob Rascon and Julie Brayton, NBCLosAngeles.com
These two genius investigative reporters should know Redlands is not in northern California.
Congratulations! :P
A state marriage and an Islamic marriage (marriage before God) are two different things - one provides monetary privileges (and burdens) for the married couple on earth but not in heaven, the other provides both joy on earth and in heaven and is worth much more in personal happiness than the monetary privileges of a state marriage can ever hope to provide. To say their marriage was "never legal" is a lie. Their Islamic marriage has always been legal and it is what counts with God.
Marriage before God is practiced not only in Islam. It is practiced in other religions (Christianity, Judaism, etc.) as well, and it is as legal as the civil marriage. Civil marriage is the legal concept of marriage as a governmental institution irrespective of religious affiliation, and it has a purpose of special marriage taxation.
But it doesn't count with the IRS, a much more powerful, much more all-knowing entity than God.
As I said previously, I hope that common sense prevails, and that BOTH the IRS and the State of California leave these folks alone!
Oh wait, if we audit these folks for the past 48 years, maybe we won't fall off the fiscal cliff (very heavy dose of sarcasm).