This is even a better idea than having armed guards in school. Armed guards are the first to be targeted.

And teachers wouldn't be? I find that to be strange reasoning.

Most cops don't get enough shoot-don't-shoot training. Takes experience to check the background before pulling the trigger when you are under fire. I support taxing guns & ammo enough to put two trained cops (not rent-a-cops or amateur volunteers) in every building of every school.

The more guns and ammo are taxed, the less people can afford live-fire practice, and the more danger the public is placed in when lack of familiarity/proficiency lead to missed shots or failed self-defense efforts. Taxing ammunition especially discourages live-fire practice.

If you are not familiar with handguns and want to learn it is not a bad idea to start with a .22 cal and practice,practice and when you think you got it down, practice some more. Then when you are comfortable get a nice hammer less .38 cal revolver, 99.999999% going to work and not complicated. I would not have a problem with trained people armed in my kids school, in fact we have had a cop for almost 10 years in my recollection.

Wouldn't it make more sense to prevent a shooter from getting in rather than put someone with a gun inside to deal with the problem after the shooter gets in?

I live in an inner-city municipality with five gangs operating through it. At my kids' school the windows on the lower floor have shatter-proof plexiglass and metal mesh like on the police building and courthouse downtown. All doors have one-way locks so that one can only exit from the door, and cannot pull it open from outside to enter. If someone is coming to the school in the middle of the day, a camera outside the door picks up who is standing there before the person even hits the doorbell. The person standing there has to announce name and purpose and show ID, even parents coming in to pick up a child for early dismissal have to flash their ID before the door is unlocked and they are allowed in. If it is for a parent teacher conference the secretary checks the schedule--if the conference is not on the schedule the parent is not allowed in. Anyone not a parent, delivery person or authorized individual is not permitted inside the building period during school hours.

Problems I can see with putting armed officers inside schools:

1) How accurate a shot is the cop going to be with panicked screaming kids running around? Didn't we just see bystanders at the Empire State knife incident get shot with police bullets that went wild?

2) While most cops are honorable, there are some who aren't. Think about that.

3) Police impersonators abound. Someone could theoretically put on a uniform, show up at a school as the guard-of-the-day, and kidnap a child.

4) under-manned, understaffed, budget cut police departments might not have or be able to hire the personnel for this. The school board could then subcontract to a private security firm. I can see problems with that.

5) I hear people advocating for parent volunteers licensed to carry guns who could take over school security. Got two possibilities for you to consider. One; a George-Zimmerman-type personality who cold mistake a couple of kids trying to climb out a bathroom window to play hooky from school getting shot as someone trying to break in; and two; someone's parent has been molesting their child but has no prior record and child hasn't spoken out suddenly has a much bigger victim pool to draw from.

6) My youngest is autistic...but has a fascination with mechanical devices of all kinds. All it would take is one moment of inattention by his teacher over her firearm for him to accidentally shoot someone. Yes, I can try to tell him about responsibility and being careful, but he mentally is not capable of learning that lesson

Just some food for thought.

Good points.

Hitting a target is not shoot-don't-shoot simulator training. Last fall in an armed stand-off with hostages here; a hostage got away and ran at the police, too panicked to follow their orders to get down. Turned out real bad for him. If cops aren't getting enough training I am against adding cowboys with guns in public. Look how many innocent bystanders are hit in gang shootouts. Are you telling me the gang bangers are not proficient with their weapons?

AncientGeek: Gangbangers don't go to ranges to practice, so yes, they are not proficiant with their weapons...

RussH, unfortunately you are correct. I am a pretty good shot with over 40 years of experience but I know that at this time I should not have a CCW. The fact is that I have been making it to the range maybe once a month. I can defend my home against a home invasion but to try and shoot someone that is moving while more then 25 to 30 feet away and adrenaline pumping would not be a good choice. The crazy thing is that I can shoot better then most Cops. I personally do not know of any department that requires their officers to hit the range more then twice a year.

"We think it makes a lot more sense to prevent a school shooter from getting the gun in the first place,"

"I'd rather control everybody else than my own destiny."

More people are killed accidently by gunfire each year than are killed in mass shootings. The easier access to guns, the more accidents there will be.

Easier access to forks, the more obese people will become! I call BS. I do believe that any firearm owner should be responsible and lock their firearms up, regardless where they live but lets look at the incidents: what firearms were actually owned by the shooter? Bad guys dont usually buy their firearms legally. Absolutely agree that there are firearm owners, legal firearm owners, that lose their minds and go on a shooting spree just like there are those that go on stabbing sprees or push people onto the subway tracks (happened yesterday). Bad things are going to happen, how we respond will dictate future events and future ease of access for bad people. Banning assault weapons is not the answer, better education, better decisions and higher awareness and security will go a long way!

teachers are in school to teach not to do the jobs of the police. i would not feel comfortable with armed teachers . there are other ways to defend our children. besides if im not mistaken how will they get by the fed law of guns in schools?

Another case of republicans saying "protect the kids but not with my money". Always looking to do things for free. I already understand from the tax situation that republicans dont think America is worth paying for. So here it is, they don't think Kids are worth paying for either. If you want guns in school then hire real police or retired police to do the job of protecting. but noooooo , you guys wanna cheap out again by giving teachers guns with no real cost to you.

A 5 hour class on guns will not make these people proficient or safe. And will probably make things worse. What will the headlines say when the first student gets shot by a teacher?

George, that was the first thought to cross my mind. who IS going to pay for this service? Local taxes? Most schools are funded either by property taxes or local sales taxes. Would the local population, especially those who DO NOT have children in the school system, accept paying more just to protect someone else's child?

I understand everyones reasoning on gun control, yes more needs to be done to prevent guns going to just anybody. However, I will NEVER understand anyones reasoning on banning guns from law abiding citizens...all that does is ban law abiding citizens from their right to protection. Criminals WILL still purchase their firearms illegally and are more than likely laughing at this debate hoping guns are banned from everyone so they can enter in on the "soft spots" and kill whoever they like knowing people won't be armed.

hhhhhmmmm -

So if a teacher, allowed to carry a gun, goes berserk and kills a bunch of students, will the NRA’s reply be: “ARM THE KIDS!”

kparc; how many occurrences are there of teachers going "berserk"!

kparc-

why do people like you insist everyone magically goes crazy just because a gun is near them?

I will NEVER understand anyones reasoning on banning guns from law abiding citizens.

This is usually where the person who commits a crime gets their gun because its convenient and easy, or if they aren't a criminal already they can just go buy one as a "law abiding citizen" until they become a criminal and law unabiding citizen. When it comes to guns law abiding citizens are not responsible citizens and that is the problem.

However in Florida we have a volunteer program where everybody has a conceal permit, 5 guns and soon there will be no need for the police. At least the police will be afraid to go down the streets if they are still employed. With our do not retreat law it qualifies everyone to shoot and explain later, with the first statement always being, as taught in the CC classes, he threatened my life. Of course to get the conceal carry permit there is a required grueling 1 hour course that everyone passes, even the blind.

Acosmet - It will only take one.

Now your gunman won’t have to make a special trip to the school to gun down your children, HE’LL WORK THERE!!

The NRA needs to do more to encourage RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. I have no problem with any citizen owning a gun but there needs to be more groups like the NRA explaining they they do not support gun owners who use and store their weapons irresponsibly.

My family owned guns when I was a child and my parents sat me down and explained that a gun is a tool just like a chainsaw. You can hurt yourself and others very badly if you don't know how to use it properly and it should only be used for its intended purpose and by people who know how to use it. I've known many responsible gun owners over the years that invest themselves into getting the training they need so they know how to use their weapon, they buy a gun safe and store their weapons properly when not in use.

Unfortunately, their is a percentage of people who are not responsible gun owners. They buy a gun, maybe take a couple hour course (if that), and brag about how they have a gun to defend themselves. And in the worst cases you have someone like Adam Lanza's mother who kept multiple guns around her house, allowing her son, who was known to have mental health issues and personality disorders, full access to these weapons. That is not responsible gun ownership. If she had been a responsible person, she would have had her guns in a safe that she only knew the combination to.

f hill

teachers are in school to teach not to do the jobs of the police. i would not feel comfortable with armed teachers . there are other ways to defend our children. besides if im not mistaken how will they get by the fed law of guns in schools?

Yup, leave it to the clueless with all bark and no bite. I would let armed teachers in my daughters daycare center.

You (like so many of you's) always say "There are other ways to defend our children" but never have any suggestions. Easier said than done. Barking out that same line time and time again without a solution.

Care to let us all know how there are other ways?! Really...... I'm waiting... please, do tell....

The Newtown school was locked out and you had to be "buzzed" in. That didn't stop the Fk'd up kid from getting in.

If the Principal of the school had enough balls to confront & try to stop him giving her life, then she would've had the balls to put one right between his eyes "BUT", she was not armed then what happened after that?! PLease, do tell..... Pffft.

All bark and no bite.... I'll bet my life that if your children went to Sandy Hook School and were not one of the statistics, you'd be all for armed teachers.

The problem with toady's society is that it "ALWAYS" happens to someone else, never me.................................................until it happens to you.

Have a nice day...

kparc; you didn't find any instances of teachers killing (going berserk) their students did you! If a teacher wanted to do that, it could be done!

The SocialistDemocrats are going to go soviet over this. Feinstein will undoubtedly ban any gun a teacher could have. Obama* and his chronies are working on a gun ban.

kparc..Is thinking of Chicago teachers that went to Wisconsin and nearly demolished the Wisconsin State Capitol Building to the tune of multi-millions of dollars.

Now Diane Feinstein does not need to dream up a new gun ban.

I'm not Black and I know many will think this is a racist comment but I've noticed that 99.9% of these crazy killings are done by WHITE people anyone has an idea of why, and another observation is most GUN owners are WHITE people is there some sort of correlation to each. Oh an this is the KICKER most victims are WHITE does anyone wonder about this.

addy:

I will NEVER understand anyones reasoning on banning guns from law abiding citizens...all that does is ban law abiding citizens from their right to protection.

As I understand it, no one's talking about banning ALL guns, just the assault-type weapons that can be used to kill mass numbers of people at a time.

Common sense said:

Banning assault weapons is not the answer, better education, better decisions and higher awareness and security will go a long way!

I will agree with you...up to a point. Better education, better decisions and better awareness/security will go a long way--however, there is no way to GUARANTEE that EVERY person who owns an assault rifle will ALWAYS be responsible and aware of its security. There are no absolutes in this world.

I am the mother of an autistic son. He is 9, but operates at about a 5 year old's understanding. I cannot TEACH him about gun responsibility and consequences. I can TELL him, but I cannot TEACH him because he does not, and will never, have the mental capacity to understand what I'm trying to say.

Can I guarantee that I will ALWAYS, every moment of every day, for the rest of my life, have any firearm I may own locked up and inaccessible? No, I can't. And a moment of inattention is all it takes. Therefore, I should be banned from owning an assault weapon because I have a mentally deficient individual living in the same house as I do.

For your information, yes, I do own a firearm--my Dads S&W model 39, the first 9mm ever made in the US; he acquired it after his service in Vietnam. I have a cable lock on it, wear the key on my person ALWAYS on the bead chain next to my dog tags, and have no ammo for this firearm. My son does not know it is in the house, and the day he finds out will be the day it leaves because I cannot guarantee that he will NEVER use it to kill someone. He is incapable of being responsible for his own actions--therefore I, as his mother, have responsibility for not only my actions but also his. Should he use my firearm to kill someone, i would be the one legally held responsible--just as Nancy Lanza, had she lived,would now be held responsible for her son killing the people in Newtown.

I would submitt to you that more than 95% wouldn't have the mindset to pull the trigger and the remaining 5% would either miss or enrage the killer more than already.

Most people don't have the training or knowledge of how to kill another human.This will only result in people feeling good untill the next shooting or they come back to earth and realize this is not the answer. this is just what the NRA ordered more wacko's with guns to worry about. You people are about to become your worst enemy. Go out and shoot a dog or another animal find out if you can really pull the trigger then multiply that feeling by 100 to get the true feeling of killing a human

Dick-2100935-

Yes, in some cases the criminal stole the gun from the person who purchased the guns legally. And in a lot of those cases the person that stole the gun is mentally ill. I believe we need to do more to get the mentally ill off the streets and into proper care...not take guns away from law abiding citizens.

Also, out of all the people in the world (7 billion), responsible vs. irresponsible--I'd have to say there are farrr more responsible law abiding citizens than there are criminals. Not everyone should be punished because of these few bad apples.

As you can see from my name I live in Utah and when I called the district and found out my 2 girls teachers are able to carry if they choose, I was VERY relieved. No teachers having firearms isn't ideal but it's better than having would be shooters know the school is a "Gun Free" or rather (FREE FIRE ZONE). Every mass shooting in the U.S. except one has been in "Gun free"- (FREE FIRE ZONES). The shooter at the theater in Colorado actually went past theaters closer to his home showing the same movie to one that was posted "NO GUNS" why because there was less likely hood of being stopped before killing a large number of people. The shooting at trolley square in Salt Lake City would have been worse than it was except there was an off duty police officer there who was allowed to carry concealed even though the mall was a posted "GUN FREE ZONE".They actually look for "Gun free zones to do this, what dose that tell you?

kparc....(#1.23)..."Now your gunman won’t have to make a special trip to the school to gun down your children, HE’LL WORK THERE!!"

How ridiculous....Right now that teacher could quietly slash all their throats....lock the door on the way out....and have hours of a head start on escaping....

As for the training of those teachers willing to carry, .....A shootout is always better than a massacre.

At least they won't be huddled on the floor shielding as many as they can wrap their arms around while being shot.

Diane Fienstien is a hypocrite she has or had a concealed carry permit herself after some group planted explosives around her home. Look it up there is video of her talking about getting a gun for self defense.

Shanad ...(#1.24)...."The NRA needs to do more to encourage RESPONSIBLE gun ownership. I have no problem with any citizen owning a gun but there needs to be more groups like the NRA explaining they they do not support gun owners who use and store their weapons irresponsibly."

Your knowledge of the NRA and what they do could fill a sewing thimble...Try going to their website....

@ uaw

Just modify one of the class rooms into regular morning"free" weapons practice!

I personally don't think this is a good idea, whats to stop someone from taking a Gun from a teacher and turning it on the teacher and students? The only plus is the limitation of ammo.

Amanda-2017567-

There is a reason why they did away with the previous ban on assault-type weapons--

IT DIDN'T DO SH!T

In a free society bad things can and will happen. The more free the society is, the more free people are to do crazy things. You will never stop everything. One can only hope to mitigate the inevitable damage that will be done.

However, i'm on the fence on arming teachers. Being an avid handgunner for over 30 years i know it is extremely difficult to accurately fire any handgun at a stationary target let alone in a stressful situation. Police officers and agents have trouble with it and they are, in most cases, much more heavily trained.

I'm not sure it's a good idea at all and i'm a very "pro" 2nd amendment person.

Jon;

I have a laser on my handgun, it's easy to hit mass! Get the dot on the target and pull the trigger.

Way to lie MSN... the NRA president doesn't support gun ban, he did not say he doesn't support more control. He has said himself he wouild like to see the background check to include mental hospiltal info which is a form of control. DumbA$$ liberal website.

I personally think that if the teachers are allowed to have a concealed weapon that it will detour people from going to the schools. The reason they pick the schools is that they know they have a better chance of gunning down numerous kids before the police can get to them. WHY? Because Police have GUNS..If guns are already there, then it defeats the purpose of going to the schools...I think that the lock down is a good ideal, but if Lanza was able to get into the school that already had a lock down system, than that should tell you something right there. That system is not fool proof when it comes to guns. Taking away peoples guns will only leave the majority of people defenseless against wicked evil people..Everyone deserves a fighting chance and our chance is being able to defend ourselves..PERIOD>>>We have nothing to fear except fear itself.. We can not stop every crime from happening, but if the ones who want to commit crimes are aware that you will fight back and have the means to do so, they will be less likely to want to tangle with you.

cheetah-822547

"We think it makes a lot more sense to prevent a school shooter from getting the gun in the first place,"

"I'd rather control everybody else than my own destiny."

No one will EVER prevent a shooter form getting a gun.. legal or not .. they want one .. they WILL get one no matter what anyone tries to do to stop them ..

banning guns is an ignorant and immature way to deal with the problem and will solve nothing but create even MORE crime...

If a criminal knows you don't have a gun, he will rob, shoot and or kill you without even thinking twice about it .. but if he knows you may have a gun to shoot back .. most of the time he will leave you alone.

there will always be people who will take advantage in a negative way .. you can never stop that no matter what rules or laws you have in place ..

the media always wants to focus on how many crimes are gun related but you never hear of how many crimes were prevented with guns

again.. you think guns kill people then go ban cars .. cars kill almost three times as many people as guns .. good thing cars are not designed to kill otherwise that number would be much higher!!!

JR;

Lanza was able to get into the school that already had a lock down system

Bullet resistant door glass would have stopped that one.

Acosmet,

Great, but that's you. And have you ever been in a truly stressful situation, combat or otherwise? Even with a laser it's harder than most think when under life or death stress.

I'm not saying teacher shouldn't be armed under the right circumstances but it's just not as clear cut as either extreme side of the argument make it.

Addy: I'm not saying ban all assault-type weapons from EVERYONE--I'm advocating for limiting their ownership to those who do not have a mentally-deficient individual living with them. I for example, should be banned from owning one because my son lives with me. My Dad taught me safety and responsibility--hence the lock on the firearm I own and the lack of ammo.

The second person in 2 weeks was pushed to their deaths in front of oncoming subway trains in NYC....Mayor Bloomberg has effectively banned Big Gulps, salt shakers on restaurant tables, tastey fries....And the most vocal on calling for gun bans........Isn't it about time he calls for a ban on Subway Trains....they are killing people at an alarmingly increasing rate...

The coroner is having difficulty identifying the 2 mounds of ground beef scooped out from under the trains....

Jon:

And have you ever been in a truly stressful situation, combat or otherwise?

Yes.

it's just not as clear cut as either extreme side of the argument make it.

True.

Growing up, in my small country town outside of Houston, we ALWAYS had armed officers at ALL of our schools! They have their own office next to the entrance. It always made me feel safer, even in Kindergarten.

Those of you who do not trust the teachers not to "go berserk"...why are you trusting them AT ALL with your children then? They can just as easily take a gun to school now. They can just as easily overpower small children and murder them all with a machete. Seeing/holding a gun will not turn you into a murderous loon.

I have no desire to ever own a firearm. I do not intend to live in fear of what might or might not happen. I am trained in defensive tactics (a requirement due to past positions) and would rather have a capable body and mind to respond to any event. As a parent, I do not want my daughter living in a police state. This isn't a third world country - it is a country that has seen a major drop in resources for mental health needs. More weapons in the hands of others is not a deterrent to a person who has homicidal/suicidal ideations. Mental health care is still the best bet. Prevention is always the smarter path.

Mike:

"The coroner is having difficulty identifying the 2 mounds of ground beef scooped out from under the trains...."

Too far, man, too far...I understand your point, but damn. Those people have families.

"We think it makes a lot more sense to prevent a school shooter from getting the gun in the first place," said Kristen Rand, legislative director for the Violence Policy Center in Washington, D.C.

The ignorant fools just keep ignoring the fact that guns are already OUT THERE! You absolutely CANNOT keep someone determined to do something like this from getting their hands on one.

No, they are not ignorant... they are down right STUPID!

Hi, CD.

JR: The Newtown school had a buzzed-access entry, but the shooter reportedly broke a ground-floor window and got in. Hence at my childrens' school the windows are shatterproof plexiglass and also have metal mesh covering them. There have been gang shootings in which bullets went wild but never got past the metal mesh.

An article I read also said the Newtown principal's letter to parents read 'if you do get in please go immediately to the office and sign in'--the implication here being that they KNEW that the security measures were not completely secure, but in a small town like theirs no one may have seen a need to.

At my sons' school if you are not a parent with ID who is expected/has an appointment, authorized school board personnel with schoolboard-issued ID badges or an authorized delivery personnel (who use the secured loading dock in the back to deliver items) you are not allowed in during school hours. One day my autistic son was misbehaving at school and his teacher asked my husband to come pick him up...but she neglected to tell the front office that he was coming and my husband waited outside the door for an hour. Although my husband is disabled and walks with a cane, they did not allow him in to wait inside until they had the matter straightened out.

In reference to my earlier post about Dianne Feinstein having a concealed carry permit. The video of her talking about getting it is on Breitbart under Flashback: Dianne Feinstein has a concealed carry permit or you can do a bing or google search. Yes I may have spelled something wrong so sue me grammer ploice.

Jessicalc...(#1.51)..."Too far, man, too far...I understand your point, but damn."

From the article of the latest subway death:

"It did not appear the man noticed her before he was shoved onto the tracks, police said, adding that the condition of the man's body was making it difficult to identify him."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/28/man-pushed-to-death-in-front-nyc-subway-train/?test=latestnews#ixzz2GMesLLFe

Is that better ???....Sanitizing the ugly realities of violent crime only diminishes what the victims last moments on Earth were....

Nothing a teen hasn't seen in the latest video games sold by the 10's of millions and the Top Dollar Hollywood pays for the most realistic Special Effects Companies can create......

I remember when I was a teen in the 70's.....When the Police Department would bring mangled cars that High Schooler's were killed in DUI crashes to the school....It was part of Driver's Ed program....Scared the daylights out of me, seeing what could happen...

Sign this petition to 'clarify' gun ownership requirements:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-28th-amendment-gun-ownership-privilege/tRJtD6L7

Russ @ 1.1

I don't own a pistol, never had any formal instruction or training but have fired both revolvers and semi-automatics on occasion and can assure you that I could send you to the great beyond from across a class room, and not harm any students in the process. So enough of this hours and hours and hours of training rant. Street fighting is another setting best left to the police.

davey-526272...(#1.57)..." gun-ownership-privilege " ???...28th Amendment ??

A Drivers Licence is a privilege.....The Right to keep and bear ams is one of those unalienable rights granted to us by our Creator...The 2nd.Amendment in The Bill of Rights, was to specifically highlight that right.....

I am so thankful that The Founders in their wisdom made amending The Constitution a difficult undertaking...

From the petition:

" on their weapons cache."

Cache ???...... Is a "hiding place"....Who wrote that dopey amendment petition that so far only 1,852 people signed ?? Does that mean that guns that are not in a hiding place are exempt ???

Words have meaning, look it up......Sheesh.....

In my job I work on water conditioning systems, we have many schools as customers. Most school buildings I can walk into at any time, even if they have lock down systems in place. Most schools have the boiler or mechanical room doors propped open (a little piece of wood so it looks closed but isn't locked) so the maintenance workers can sneak out and smoke. If not, just bang on the door real hard and someone will open it, works every time. So much for lock out. The system sounds good and works most of the time, but it is still run by people and people are sometimes idiots. Including me.

The Right to keep and bear ams is one of those unalienable rights granted to us by our Creator.

Your creator? Your creator was your mommy and daddy.

All I'm saying is that it's time to do something about guns. The status quo is not good.

Ya, put more guns in more peoples' hands. That will help the problem. <rolling eyes>

While I do not agree that teachers should be bringing guns to school, if the school systems allows it then every parent with a child in that school should be required to sign a legal form to not hold the teachers responsible if the weapon is stolen by anyone on school grounds or if the teacher happens to shoot the kids by mistake. Carrying or discharging weapons is not a requirement for teachers. Also additional compensation should be required for the teachers that choose to participate(more money for additional service responsibility, retail gun charges or be provided with a state approved weapon, gun permit fee if required, ammunition cost or provided by state and sufficient time off during the week to practice, not weekends.

If the state laws permit it..why not.

I know Utah has very weak gun control laws.

Dr.'s and parents often let them prescribe drugs that make people worse, or never needed. Sometimes, the patient of a psychologist never tell their loved ones that they are worse. My Sister in law, might still be alive if the dr. told my brother that she was hearing voices. She might not of been able to set herself on fire only to have him find her. So sad is this world today.

I get the impression that they think that a couple of weekend classes are going to make these school teachers competent using firearms. Nothing could be further than the truth. A few firearms familiarization classes won't come close to making these people competent shooters. If anything it will make a situation even worse.

Becoming good in any endeavor requires commitment, intensive training and regular practice. This is especially true when using firearms. I don't see that happening with a bunch of school teachers. Bad idea.

Have to say, "Holiday Cheer", your condemnation of these teachers, that are trying to do something, is very negative. Better to have one weekend class and be able to have the chance of saving student lives, than just being victims of crime. What's worse than that ? Perhaps they will become experts with firearms. I see school teachers, that are commited to learning proper gun use, as being more likely to learn than any other part of society.

Just modify one of the class rooms into regular early morning "free" weapons practice!

oh, good grief...that was funny!!! ☺

Yes, if it saves their lives. No one will ever get all the guns out of the hands of the bad guys!

Agreed, VLGil.

But wouldnt it be a whole bunch better to stop these guys, before they get to schoolyards?

An ounce of prevention...but just who are these guys??? If we knew who they were, they could be stopped long before any wild rampages.

The sad reality is that people must be vigilant and do what ever it takes to protect themselves.

I will remain in hiding until you lay down your guns.

I hope you're not hiding from me. I've never owned a gun but do support the 2nd amendment.

chefaz, I agree. I believe that someone always knows something about these killers. The problem is nothing can be done if they have not committed a crime. I wish there was an easy answer.

takenake....you'll be in hiding forever. Bad guys are less likely to break into a home knowing they might get shot, or less likely to go into any building knowing the same.

I bet the majority would be stopped, if a psych exam was required to own a firearm. Especially a military grade weapon, like an AR15.

Seems crazy to me that guns that dangerous, are sold without any kind of mental health check at all. I see nothing wrong with asking people to prove they arent criminals (background check), and they arent crazy (psych test).

Federal law prevents anyone judged mentally incompetent from owning a firearm but this is after the fact. This does not prevent anyone from illegally acquiring a gun.

If the psychologist was good, but you cannot tell from one visit. If the psychologist knew the individual wanted to kill people and told no one, that would be different.

Shutting down the blackmarket, isnt the impossible task the NRA makes it out to be. Guns go to the blackmarket, from legit sources. They dont pop out of thin air. 40% of gun sales happen without a background check, and there is no tracking of weapons at all. Its no wonder criminals have no problem getting a gun.

Stopping the problem, isnt as hard as it seems. At all.

The government gives psych tests to most of its employees. So its not like they dont exist. They work pretty well too. And it would catch the real nut balls easily. Will it catch everyone, no. But any is better than none.

Psych tests will reveal a lot more than identifying severely mentally impaired. There are likely clearly identifiable psychological profiles of gun "users" which distinguish them from non "users". What psychological characteristics distinguish those who feel they have to have a gun from their neighbor who can cope well without a gun though they both share the sane objetive risk in their neighborhood (which in most cases is extremely low?

Is gun ownership for some an indication of an inability to cope with fears of daily living?

Is gun ownership for some an indication of an antisocial personality--reading many comments here, seems so.

Is gun ownership for some an indication of a dependent or addictive personality? This would be similar to a drug or alcohol dependent person who has inadequate coping skill, hence relies on the drug/gun in an attempt to makeup for what they lack.

What kind of person chooses to buy a gun making the decision they may kill another. What kind of person chooses not to take another's life?

What are the psychological characteristics of those who encourage others to kill either by selling guns or promoting them (NRA leadership, gun "clubs")

Once profiles are identified, many gun owners can seek help to have happier more productive lives and likely better personal relationships once they can "kick the (gun)) habit". Educational and stress/anger management programs would help many, just as smoking cessation programs have helped smokers quit. For others, with more serious issues, a range of mental health services can be made available. Many will be able to quit the gun habit on their own as many smokers have done once they realize how potentially damaging their gun habit is to themselves, their family and community. The overwhelming success of recent gun buyback programs sponsored by local police departments is illustrating many are kicking the gun habit right now.

Yes, we have our individual freedoms, but like second hand smoke from cigarettes which kills over decades, a smoking gun kills in an instant and in many too many cases an innocent victim.

Freedom, believe it or not I do respect you and your views but have you pulled the 40% number out of your ass or what?

This is nuts!! Arm teachers thats the answer! (Not) Have you ever been in an active shooter situation? When highly trained police are in a gun fight only 15-20% of the rounds hit the target. These are men and women that train with these weapons. Now what do you think a teacher is going to do in a stressful situation 5-10% if your lucky! Just because you take a CCW corse does not mean your capable to use that weapon in a stressful situation. Now the bad guy has entered the enviroment he now has numerous guns to choose from! Now you have the police responding to the situation and they see a teacher with a gun what do you think might or will happen the teacher will get shot. Guns do not kill people "People kill People"! You dont want armed police in the schools with a gun but you will have 200 teachers in a school with a gun? What if a student gets one of those guns and hurts or kills another student then who is to blame? How about in a stressful situation the gun is locked away is that teacher going to be able to get it in time? Dont think so. Use your head people! If you have never been in a situation where you actually needed a gun then its not that easy!

Better to be a witness to a shoot out than another dead statistic.

Kamaaina...thank you for showing that psychologists cannot be trusted to determine with pre-emptive screening who should and should not have a gun. Psychologists will turn this into a religion, and the almighty psychologist will tell you who has hate in their heart and who just wants to defend their nation from tyranny, defend their home and family from violent crime, and hunt or sport shoot.

You didn't anywhere in your armchair psychological evaluation of gun owners try and explain the irrational fears of anti-gun people. How about the flu being almost 3 times more likely to kil an American than gun murder? How about cars killing more Americans? How about surgical mistakes? How about alcohol, tobacco, and yes NSAIDs like asprin? How about the fact crime rates have plummeted, so have violent crime rates, murder rates, and gun murder rates in the USA over the last 30 years while gun proliferation, magazine sizes, and permits have gotten more widespread? How about the fact county by county, State by State, and nation by nation there is no correlation between gun ownership rates and violent crime rates, murder rates, and even gun murder rates?

No...no meniton of that. Just talking nonsense about classifying gun owners as ASPD or sociopathic or paranoid. I mean the 2nd Amendment wasn't SPECIFICALLY intended to keep our govt from becoming tyrannical (a deterent), or to overthrow it by force if it did become tyrannical, was it? Can you name one other Founder besides Adams (who was himself in favor of many tyrannies, real and hypothetictal) who thought the 2nd Amendment was for "militias only", or "self defense of your house and family only", or "hunting or sport"? Nope.

It's not about what you want it to be about. It's not a psychological flaw that leads people to like guns. It's the fact they are a natural individual unalienable right not granted by the govt, but recognized by the govt.

Mass shooting rates hit their peak in the late 1920s. Since then they have declined. The numbers are so small now that they can double and then half themselves year to year. Less than 2% of gun murders are caused by mentally insane mass shooting freaks. 40-70% of gun murder is due to the Drug War (so legalize drugs if you want to save lives so much). Only ,026% of private gun owners, legal or illegal, will murder someone with a gun. If you are an American you have a .0041% chance of being murdered by a gun. That's 4 in 100,000!

Still think we're the irrational ones?

The psychological problem lies with the anti-gun people...they simply can't face stats that destroy their arguments, and seek to plea to emotion instead.

Cognitive dissonance, doubltethink, cherry picking data to fit an argument as opposed to drawing a conclusion after you know ALL the facts, the inability to use critical thinking to look over those stats for pertinent points, lack of perspective, and intuitive as opposed to logical thinking all lead both the left and the right to push these kind of nonsense attacks on each other in so many topics, and prevent them from seeing truth.

Face facts:

1. The number one singular cause of gun murder every year in the USA is the illegalization of drugs. It causes 40-70% of gun murders, and murders generally. This also applies to other nations. The severity of the Drug War laws are more corollary to gun murder and murder rates than gun ownership rates and gun control laws. When Prohibition began in 1920-1921, the crime rtate went up 20%+ in one year. Over the 13 years of Prohibition , the crime rate went up 78%. The year we ended the war on alcohol, the murder rate fell 40% in just that one year!

2. The number two cause of gun murder, and murderts generally, is domestic violence against women and children. Funny as psychology buff you didn't know that. When you spank kids, or kids witness domestic violence, they are more likely to be abused or abuse someone in the homes as adults. Some abusers or abused adults kill someone in a domestic dispute. That causes more gun murder than mass shootings by far.

3. Generations that have wars tend to have domestic violence rates that are higher. It'd be smart to limit wars to only self defense (less than 20% of our wars have been in justifiable self defense, which is not the same as the lies they wetre sold on). Otherwise you get a larger criminal element the next generation. It's a proven correlation. So to stop domestic violence you may want to stop institutionalized violence. Soldiers coming back from wars are far morel ikely to beat a domestic living spouse or family member. They make up close to 50% of prisoners in jails. They are morel ikely to murder by far than are people wh don't go to war.

So here is how you stop over half of gun murder: legalize drtugs.

Here is how you stop another additional 10-20%: stop wars of aggression and occupation, stick to only self defense, and promote a social norm of zero tolerance for domestic abuse of women and children (and men too, if they are abused - which they are, in a tiny minority).

Here is how you stop less than 2% of gun murder: push for gun regulation and restrictions, or even bans, and pretend that mass shootings and guns, and their magazine sizes, are somehow a huge threat to life. Be senationalist, insulting, and totally rewrite history to fit your argument. Ignore all contrary evidence, ignore the Founders' intent and own words, and keep blaming inanimate objects. Whateer you do, ignore you are ignoring the causes of 98% of gun murder. Keep pretending this about saving lives, and hope no one notices the facts aren't on your side and that this is logically just a convenient time to push your political agenda.

If you really wanted to save lives you attack the drug war and domestic violence. Everythng else is BS to get a law passed that will do little or nothing to save lives, but will certainly limit rights that you wish didn't exist.

Especially a military grade weapon, like an AR15.

I just love it when people use terms like military grade, You have no idea what you are talking about, An AR15 is not a "Military Grade" firearm, If our troops were armed with AR15's they would be outgunned by even WWII standards, The only thing an AR15 has in common with an M16 is that they look alike, equating the 2 weapons is like equating a corvette powered by a 100 hp 4 cylinder (AR15) with a Corvette with a 500 HP V8(M16)

When you make comments like that you show just how little you know about firearms

The AR15 wouldn't have even been banned under the last federal "assault rifle" ban!

to kamaania..speaking of a psychiatrist, you should make an appointment before Obama*care kicks in and you get one who can't understand english.

The anti-rights nutjobs are out early today.

Phyc tests are a sham. We ALL will come up lacking in one way or another. THAT is the plan, especially with Obamalackofcare.

The idea of protecting schools is stupid. We need to protect the entire society. Can we have armed guards on every corner? In every mall, in every movie theater? No, we cannot. We need to be proactive in addressing gun violence, not reactive. More guns is not the answer.

I'll bet your fine with Obamas kids being around armed guards while in school. He recently told Barbara Walters that was the best thing about being re-elected. It's great for his kids, just no one elses.

Check out violent crime rates by state. You will find that Utah has a much lower rate than most.

Actually the whole school is the safest in the world. secret service all over the place. So here's a crazy Idea. instead of giving teachers guns, reach into your wallets and hire REAL POLICE OFFICERS instead of doing things on the cheap. Or bring all our Military home and let them guard our schools. Or hers an even nuttier idea, try understanding that this is not a gun issue. It's a mental health Issue. Every single shooter in every single school assault had mental problems. Normal people don't go to school and start shooting people. Mrs. Lanza and others KNEW this kids was Ill and dangerous. they did nothing about it.

I don't know if it was intentional, but my elementary school was right across from the 34 precinct in Manhattan. hmmm , another crazy Idea, when you plan public buildings, maybe you should build your schools in close proximity to police and fire stations. nahhhhhhh

While most police officers I know are honorable, some are not.

Military personnel can snap, go crazy and shoot people.

A police or military impersonator could show up at the school, be admitted as the guard-of-the-day, and kidnap a child or go on a rampage.

There are more schools than there are police stations. Particularly in rural/suburban areas.

Most schools have many buildings, many teachers. So, you think tax payers want to hire many guards for each school. With all the cut back of teachers now, how can they afford Guard? Also, the shooting only lasted 4 to 5 min. from the time it started until it finished. I took a citizens police academy coarse. Police don't stop or prevent crimes 98% of the time. They report it. After it happens.

They're fulfilling the NRA vision of America . . . The NRA has a vision for America. It looks a lot like Somalia, Afghanistan, and similar countries where armed thugs roam at will. Can't have enough guns. Guns. Guns. Guns. With open carry, no limits, guns everywhere. We haven't had enough dead children, dead teachers, dead cops, dead moms. Roll back the clock to the late 1800s in the wild west. Yeehaw.

They're fulfilling the NRA vision of America

Another fool... In states where the firearms laws are the strictest the rates of crime are the highest, Look at Chicago,Detroit,LA,Camden All have strict firearms laws and all have high crime rates, The common denominator in all is that the law abiding citizen has been disarmed in these states/cities and the criminals control the streets.

Yes The Democratic/Obama vision for America...Chicago where there have had hundreds of murders so far this year including 60 school children, Funny how the media does not report that.

Actually, NBC reported today that Chicago just had its 500th murder this year. How many times do we have to repeat that criminals are unaffected by gun bans? Is anybody listening?

You are forgetting that they are wanting to do this to protect our children. Be honest with me... if your kid was in a classroom and a crazy person came in,pulled a gun, the teacher fires one off his direction and he runs away scared to death like the cowards that they are. You would still be upset about it?? Its about prevention, the crazy people wouldnt even attempt to walk into a war zone, Get It??

Most hospitals have silent panic buttons discreetly placed to summon help. This might be another tool for consideration but like the saying goes when seconds count, the police are minutes away. There is no quick or easy fix to this.

yes there is, build police stations closer to schools,,,,,duhhhhhh

it just makes no sense to me

Someone shoots up a school and takes out innocent children and their teachers who die trying to protect them.

Someone else sets a fire and kills the firemen (volunteer no less). Firemen are already risking their lives as it is.

None of it makes sense. These sickos murdered people they never knew for their last entertainment before taking their own lives. Not revenge, not passion, not personal gain, not even defense. Entertainment before they breathed their own last breath. That's pretty much about it. After all the dust has settled, they will wind up with their very own page on Wikipedia and won't even be around to see it. What a pathetic aspiration. The only ones who will remember them will be the families of those who were killed and their horrible names will be cursed by those left.

You're right. None of it makes sense.

I am old enough to remember when using bath salts and chewing someones face off was considered crazy.

Nit, the fire arm will be secured on the teachers person where it is readily available for use by the teacher and not locked up in a gun safe in the principles office.

Chuck, you are correct in equating guns with illegal drugs. Think about it, Read my other posts above.

Chuck Ban assault weapons and use spellcheck. abc on toolbar. People are talking behind your back.

taken aka, please define an assault weapon

and fwiw, I will bet you have made a few spelling errors yourself, we all have and you did not answer his question.

peopple are talking behind your back also

Kamaaina, equating someone who possesses a firearm legally with someone who uses an illicit drug shows how little you know about either

You left out Rachel Maddow. Saw her picture in Time this week, promising Roe v Wade will be a fight to the death. Like she'll ever need an abortion. Freedom has lots of things that offend people who don't see it the way you or I do, if you don't like it and you could lose a few pounds North Korea is calling you.

WOW..some really odd people out there and they all are Democrats. talking as insane as they always do.

Kamaaina..the skinheads are all Democrats. The Republicans did abolish slavery and pass the Equal Rights Amendments remember?

no, that is not what i would choose, don't put words into my mouth.

i would be more inclined to agree with an earlier comment regarding the security of the school, gates should be locked during school hours and if need be, which i think might be the case in the USA (i'm only guessing because i am not in the US), have a guard on that gate and patrolling the grounds. during school hours there should not be anyone on that site who is not authorized to be there.

I think most are missing the point here. A concealed weapon must be concealed. Therefore, the kids should have no idea the teacher is carrying. You learn this in your first CWC class. You only draw your weapon if you feel your life is in immediate danger. You then are trained to draw that concealed weapon and shoot to kill.

I love how eveyone has an opionion without actually learning everything there is to know before stating that opinion.

I think that common sense is being traded in for guns.

Cap'nJim had the Captain Morgan for breakfast this morning.

There are a lot of teachers who should not be teaching and most of them are in Chicago.

Cool story bro, tell it again.

The FBI estimates that there are over 200 million privately-owned firearms in the US. If you add those owned by the military, law enforcement agencies and museums, there is probably about 1 gun per person in the country.
If you want to get a rough idea of how many guns there are out there just look at how many people you see out there then multiply by a factor of estimated ownership. The last best guess was about 350,000,000 Total. That would be 1 weapon for every man woman and child. The average gun enthusiast owns several firearms which includes pistols, shotguns, and rifles of all makes and models. It is often estimated that about 1 in 4 people own any firearms and on average firearms owners own 4 guns each.

So your theory equating cookies with firearms is bogus because we certainly have many more fat people than we do have shootings

Great cookie analogy! (not)

Bottom line is crazy people should not be allowed to own weapons. I agree a background check should be performed in order to purchase a gun but I believe that is being done (correct me if I'm wrong) except for the gun shows and of course the black market. Unfortunately banning guns (Takenaka) is impossible. There are too many out there. HELLO!!! We are reading about shootings every single day! The bad guys already have guns and lots of them! So I think I'll make sure I've got mine! I don't need an assault rifle (yet), but I'll be ok with a couple of guns that I can use to protect myself and my home with.

When the government starts screwing around with our "rights", and they are OUR rights, that frightens me. There are laws in place that say certain people (convicted felons) can't own weapons legally, however we know they get them anyway. So the law gets broken and people die.

I'm okay with an armed guard at our schools protecting our educators and our children. I'm okay with arming our firefighters and EMS/first responders. They put their lives on the line every day. Or maybe each first responder should have a police escort. Whatever works!

You just can't, as a government, start stripping away our rights because of a few maniacs. Stop big pharma from pushing the psycho drugs on our teens!! Make mental health care a larger part of the solution. The question always goes back to "why" and these people are always disturbed.

Whew! Thanks and have a great day!

Here is a true story for you all..

In the 2008 election, in Minnesota, Al Franken won by 312 votes. In the same election 393 convicted Felons Voted illegally.

Without the 393 Illegal Votes, would Al Franken still have won that election?

voter fraud is real

This is Statewide in Minnesota.

All i know is most of us in Michigan are still laughing our asses off at Minnesota for voting Franken in. I know we don't have a lot to talk about either but one has to find humor where one can find it.

SJIS, If they took all your cookies away, you would probably resort to eating giant pizzas!

Thanks Jon for not bringing up Gov. Jessie V. Doh!

The shooting at Columbine happened During the Biden / Feinstein Gun Ban.

It is also interesting that right after the shooting Bill Clinton started a federally funded program to put armed police officers in schools, Something that Wayne Lapierre spoke of last week but was called crazy for, So La Pierre and Clinton are the same crazy

Yes, Must be why Utah has the second lowest crime rate per capita, 5.1% unemployment rate while the National average is 7.7% and 3.1% growth rate while the national average is 1.2%, Overall Utah is in much better shape that almost all of the other states,

FYI, I live in NJ but Utah is looking pretty good right about now

then you would need to learn another language

Maybe you would have an easier time spelling your new languages basic words.

I also don't see where most people, as you put it, are calling for the disbanding of our armed forces.

You seem to be of the stock of people that jump to extremes because they don't like what they read.

All possibilities must be explored. We shouldn't just arm more people and ignore everything else.

Besides basic spelling, Chuck could use some serious book learning in critical thinking skills. He indulges in a lot of namecalling and straw man arguments.

Sure way to keep himself ignorant...

Wow...You two intellectually superior fellas sure did tell him, You certainly did nothing more than make an @ss of yourselves trying to prove how superior you are.

Ignorance can be cured with education, arrogance is a character flaw and you two have your share.

khshepler.....May I suggest a few things that address your concerns....

1. I agree armed security guards to protect our children is a no brainer.

2. I also agree that our 2nd Amendment allows choice of owning and protecting yourself with arms. Why not let the teachers who choose to do so, do so?

3. It would be negligent, just as any CCW holder, to announce to the kids that they are armed....That teacher would be irresponsible.

4. Keep the weapon of choice secure but easily accessible.

5. If you choose not to do so, that is your right, privilege and liberty under our Constitution.

Whether this solution is used or not, it is totally negligent on the part of society to not protect our children from any harm, including armed gunmen.....

KHShepler, I will say it again, just to clarify.

I think most are missing the point here. A concealed weapon must be concealed. Therefore, the kids should have no idea the teacher is carrying. You learn this in your first CCW class. You only draw your weapon if you feel your life is in immediate danger. You then are trained to draw that concealed weapon and shoot to kill.

The students shouldn't be uneasy, the bad guy will not know who has a gun in the school, and since it is concealed on a teacher or principals person, it would be easily accessed for that teacher or principal. OFC, there still has to be responsible people with their CCW that know they cannot go around telling people they are packing heat. They will also lose their license if they start telling people. Educate yourselves people.

There are all too many reports of "trained" policemen making elementary mistakes

Wow really, Please give us a list then give us as a percentage the amount as compared to all of the trained policemen that have not made any elementary mistakes.

Are teachers really going to invest enough time into training to make CCW more helpful than dangerous? I don't think they signed up for this when choosing a career.

At this point I believe it is being an option offered to the teachers and they have the right to decide what they want to do.

You have no argument just empty rhetoric

Disrespected yes, and for good reason.

Overworked and underpaid, no, not by a long shot.

I would say whomever championed to arm them.

A few hour class is in no way proper training. Weekly range practice is a must.

I fear many of these teachers have no idea what is involved in being a responsible and proficient gun owner. The class organisers are using fear as a tool.

Then there's the pesky problem of hand gun accuracy falling off sharply after 50 feet. Especially if you don't practice on a weekly basis.

Who's going to fund all of this? The teachers are already having to buy their own basic school supplies.

If states are dead set on arming teaches, I would rather pay for professional security or police to man the halls.

A poorly trained person will only add to the problem.

So lets add firearms training as a curriculum in school, so when these kids grow up they will be more able to defend themselves and their country.

Make them serve in the US MIL and they will get firearms training while SERVING this country!!

All of the above.