"Cult" is the more appropriate word...

They are not a church, they are not a cult, they are a family of lawyers who use the tax laws for churches to get exempt status, while using a saturday morning cartoon villain level of overly offensive "religious" message to push people into "violating" their civil rights so they can then sue and make money, while at the same time further re-enforcing their "church status"

Their overt message and tactics also spur many private "donations" as well, further enriching their coffers, with very little effort on their part as well.

Dont be fooled into thinking this is somehow about faith or God, that's what they want you to think, that's what serves them. It's all about easy money and lulz. They are the internet troll made flesh.

IMHO,

They're not a church. They ARE, however, a HATE group who knows how to play the system.

Right-minded citizens can gather at the same time as an antidote .

Whether a cult or a hate group, they are an abhorrence to their "God". I couldn't agree more with removing their tax-exempt status. Hit them where it really hurts.

Somebody needs to send them a bunch of powdered cherry Kool Aid .....

Actually they are a church. They are Baptists. Deal with it.

No, they hide their hatred behind the banner of the Baptist church. Their form of intolerance is no different than that of the Taliban. Both use religion as a vehicle to give their intolerance legitimacy. There is no place in America for either the Westboro "church" or the Taliban and we should use just as much effort ridding the world of them as we do other terrorists. Deal with it!

I think the better part of this story are the thousands of Americans who work to shield the mourners from scum like this. (Thank you Hells Angels.) There are millions more good Americans than the small % of Westboro scum. I'm glad not everyone has not forgotten who to act appropriately at public events and have compassion for others. And no, they can call themselves a "church," but that doesn't mean they REALLY are a church. Nor does it mean the rest of the religious community support their actions and beliefs.

They can't be a church because the first poster is an armadillo not a tuna fish.

Yes, they're abhorent... yes, the things they do are reprehensible... but... they're protected by the same 1st Amendment rights that you and I are... so please, no talk of "banning"... that's just giving the govt more power to silence those who disagree... do what a lot of people are already doing when they try to disrupt military funerals (Patriot Guard)... show up and put yourself PEACEFULLY between the nutballs and the activity that the nutballs are trying to disrupt... don't engage them either in yelling and screaming or in violence... that's what they want... headline news footage... stand shoulder to shoulder, and calmly face them down.... (and yes, I know the urge to go stomp their asses will be overwhelming... do not give them the satisfaction)...

If the Westboro scumbags show up in Newtown maybe the local could give them a proper 'welcome' with some rubber bats!

We had to do a human wall to block them in my town a while back. Funny thing was, all the news reports talked about the supporters that showed up, but only mentioned that they were there to block 'protesters' and didn't give the westboro idiots airtime by name.

ProFreedom.

I can't believe someone with the screen name ProFreedom want to have us beat up people using thier freedom of speech.

These idiots simply need a little of thier own medicine. Let's go to thier church and all thier homes and protest and scream 24/7 for a few months.

I gotta agree with fed-up, the freedoms that allow those westbough pinheads to protest, are the same freedoms I enjoy when calling them douches. However, I do believe that right does not extend to yelling fire in the crowded theater- they should have a separate location to spew their filth. and they should be met with counter demonstations (also away from any funeral or event). large, massive counter protests, long, large counter protests that will make it so they are unable to reach bathroom facilities for a long time in that cold weather.

I am generally loathe to take the simplistic approach to most issues, but in this case I am thinking that the best way to deal with this racist, hate mongering "church" if they show up in Newtown is to beat the sh!t out of them. Now for a more realistic approach, hire a temp fencing company and the moment they set up their demonstration, set up a solid fence around them so no one can see them and they can't see anyone. Aim high power speakers at them from a truck and blast loud music and air horns at them at about 100 decibles the entire time they are there. Do not let them use any public facilities. Do not rent them a hotel room. Block reporters from covering them. Ticket their vehicles for even the most minor infraction. If they so much as step 1 foot outside of their "demonstration area" or break even the most simple of laws, arrest them and give them the maximum hold time allowed by law.

Until they are treated, officially, as a hate group/terrorist group, AND they are taxed, sadly, they are a "church". True they are far from being Christ-like, but I have known many people of all three Abrahamic religions, and their off-shoots like Mormons, who sound exactly like they do - hate-filled. Yes, given they are made up mostly of the Phelps family, they are very cult-like, but look at the "Christian" snake-handler churches, and the like. They are very cultist in nature as well. Jesus was a wise, and very holy teacher, but many of the most vocal "Christians" yell the complete opposite of what his ministry taught. If the DOJ and the IRS would do the right thing and remove from them any legal recognition of being a church, they could finally face the penalties for the crimes they commit at soldier's funeral, parades, memorials, and other solemn somber events. Time to tax any church that preaches any form of politics and hate. I may not be a member of any of the Abrahamic Big Three, but even I know hate has no place in any Synagogue, Temple, Church, or Mosque. If it occurs there, then it is no house of worship and should be taxed like any other non-religious meeting place.

Anyway, they backed down on this threat. Even the most hateful and insane of this cult knew that they would not get away with this one, though why they have been allowed to get away with it every other time is beyond me. They terrorize mourners and families. Label them as a Hate/Domestic Terrorist group and throw the book at them already. They make all my Christian friends ashamed that their religion is tarnished by such a group, as do many other groups that operate as churches. Both the Aryan Nation types and the KKK and affiliate groups have "churches" associated with them, and some have tax-exempt status. Why?! This has to stop. Many people of all three Abrahamic religions are asking why the decline in membership, and it is because all three have very vocal minorities making mockeries of the religions in question, from hateful political to hateful social/societal speech. If you want to reverse the fleeing from organized religions, then they need to move to stop these loud minorities from spreading the hate, be they Evangelicals, Zionists, Radical Islamist, or cults like this one. I, for one, see no reason why people can't believe differently from one another, but do so in a civil, respectful manner. Praying openly for people's deaths, protesting at funerals, claiming a biological issue is a "lifestyle", threatening congregations with hell-fire and damnation if they vote for the wrong political candidate, and the rest of such nonsense that is just plain evil. Evil has no place in today's religious institutions. Tax them, and treat them as the terrorists they are, please. Drown out their voices of hate with louder voices of love. Hate withers and dies in the light of truth and love.

IMHO-2730490, no Baptist Church I attended while growing up or attend from time to time would tolerate such hatred against any person. I grew up Catholic, Baptist and Jewish. I was always taught not to judge people, that is God's job! We are to accept people for who they are even if their beliefs are different than our own. Jesus did not teach hatred to his followers, nor did he tell them to reject anyone for their short-comings.

I think you need to pick up the Bible and read.

I do not agree with or endorse this church but I think a rumor caused mass hysteria with the Newtown funerals. Also I have only seen this church protest at military funerals so I don't understand the anti-gay stance.

I'm not sure why this group of people call themselves Baptist. It makes me sick to my stomach that they treat people so ugly in such horrible times when those folks need God's comfort so much.

I pray God will stop them from being so hateful.

I'm Baptist and I would never be so rude and ugly and neither would most PEOPLE.

Julieann, You are right they need to read their Bible and ask God to forgive them for hating and then change their ways.

Jem- I wasn't sure if it was just rumor or not in my town, but they did show up. They seem to like going to any funerals that could get them attention. And they claim that all these bad things happened to the deceased because of America's acceptance of different sexual orientations.

Local constabularies should arrest Westboro Baptist Church parishioners where they find them for hate crimes and inciting riotous violence. If not for their own community's sake and interest of resisting their own citizenry of committing the acts of murdering Westboro Baptist Church parishioners!

@ deprogrammer - If you are going to post, at least try starting with some truth. This sentence is pure bull:

Lets see now, WBC hates gays and blames every tragedy that happens in the US on gays, so does Pat Robertson, Michelle Bachman, Sean Hannity, and all the other right wingnuts.

Personally, I don't know if WBC "hates" gays or not. But I do know none of the rest of those you listed "hate" gays. Nor do they blame gays for the bad things that happen. As for the rest of your post, I'm not even going to bother.

Yes, they're abhorent... yes, the things they do are reprehensible... but... they're protected by the same 1st Amendment rights that you and I are... so please, no talk of "banning"...

This is spot on the smartest comment I have read on here. Once the government silences them, or takes away their tax exempt status, who is next? The organizations that won't bend to the Affordable Care mandate for birth control, or those don't allow women or homosexual pastors? Those that preach against drinking or dancing? Those that label Islam or Mormonism as false religions? Are they hateful? Should they lose their status too?

Where do we draw the line on what religions are approved by the government? I don't think you want the government in the business of deciding what is acceptable free speech. You will not be happy with the results.

GaryColumbus n0o matter how much I would love to see these jerks in jail I do not know of one incident where they incited a riot or were violent - we cant arrest them (darn) just because we dont like them - and if we went and beat the crap out of them thus starting a riot it would be us who violated the law not them.

Jem - they also picketed Elizabeth Edwards funeral and Liz Taylors.

FrenchConnection - I agree with your entire proposal except for your unconstitutional restriction on the press.

Willowbrook, so signs like god hates fags doesnt give you a clue that the WBC hates gays? and the constant stream of hate speech against gays coming from the right wingnuts doesn't give you a clue that they hate gays?

Here are Michele Bachmann’s top ten anti-gay statements:

• “It’s part of Satan I think to say that this is “gay.” It’s anything but gay.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
• “If you’re involved in the gay and lesbian lifestyle, it’s bondage. It is personal bondage, personal despair and personal enslavement.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
  
• “You have a teacher talking about his gayness. (The elementary school student) goes home then and says “Mom! What’s gayness? We had a teacher talking about this today.” The mother says “Well, that’s when a man likes other men, and they don’t like girls.” The boy’s eight. He’s thinking, “Hmm. I don’t like girls. I like boys. Maybe I’m gay.” And you think, “Oh, that’s, that’s way out there. The kid isn’t gonna think that.” Are you kidding? That happens all the time. You don’t think that this is intentional, the message that’s being given to these kids? That’s child abuse.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
• “Don’t misunderstand. I am not here bashing people who are homosexuals, who are lesbians, who are bisexual, who are transgender. We need to have profound compassion for people who are dealing with the very real issue of sexual dysfunction in their life and sexual identity disorders.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, on homosexuality as a mental disorder, speaking at EdWatch National Education Conference, November 6, 2004.
• “It isn’t that some gay will get some rights. It’s that everyone else in our state will lose rights. For instance, parents will lose the right to protect and direct the upbringing of their children. Because our K-12 public school system, of which ninety per cent of all youth are in the public school system, they will be required to learn that homosexuality is normal, equal and perhaps you should try it. And that will occur immediately, that all schools will begin teaching homosexuality.” – Senator Michele Bachmann, on what will happen if her same-sex marriage ban amendment fails to pass in 2004, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News,” hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 6, 2004
• “This is a very serious matter, because it is our children who are the prize for this community, they are specifically targeting our children.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, on the gay community and same-sex marriage, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 20, 2004.
• “The sex curriculum will be essentially by taught by the local gay community.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, if her same-sex marriage ban amendment does not pass in 2004, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 20, 2004.
  
• “And what a bizarre time we’re in, Jan, when a judge will say to little children that you can’t say the pledge of allegiance, but you must learn that homosexuality is normal and you should try it.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 6, 2004.
• “Our children will be forced to learn that homosexuality is normal and natural and that perhaps they should try it, and that’ll be very soon in our public schools all across the state, beginning in kindergarten.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 6, 2004.
• “We are wide open and vulnerable and in all likelihood an activist judge will strike down our Defense of Marriage Act, our state law against gay marriage, this year. And in all likelihood, we will have gay marriage in 2004 in Minnesota , if we don’t get this amendment on the ballot for November.” — Senator Michele Bachmann, appearing as guest on radio program “Prophetic Views Behind The News”, hosted by Jan Markell, KKMS 980-AM, March 20, 2004

Now thats just Bachman, would you like me to post quotes from the rightwingers like Fischer who advocate the slaughter of all gays?

bachmann says bondage like it's a bad thing

Please do not give these idiots any more attention; they've been off the radar for a while and now they need some ego time! What are they going to protest anyway?

Their bigots, some of the worst this country has, why give them any spotlight. Already on this vine 187 comments. They must be dancing in the "church" aisles.

Jeff, good points but let me point something out. Back in the 70's? - 80's? maybe, all of a sudden a lot of groups got in on the "We're a religion" bandwagon to earn those tax exempt bennies. The IRS got wise, stripped many of their status and it was up to the organization to prove their worthiness. All of a sudden, many of these "religions" went by the wayside. How do I know this??? I knew of a Church that lost their status pending investigation and then regained their status once it was found to be legitimate.

I'm unaware of what the IRS requires to retain status but maybe it's not a bad idea for the westies to undergo an investigation.

If you've ever gone to the westie's website, be forewarned. The hatred is repulsive and suffocating.

GM Debora.

Right wing loud mouth Bryan Fischer on Gays......

"Who wants to practice anything that is going to ultimately lead a grown man to about the time he’s in his 40's or 50's, or what not, having to wear a diaper or a 'butt plug' just to be able to contain their bowels?."

"Both candidates are pro-homosexual and are behind the homosexual agenda"

"Underground Railroad to deliver innocent children from same-sex households"

"Build a great, big, large fence -- 150 or 100 miles long -- put all the lesbians in there. Do the same thing for the queers and the homosexuals and have that fence electrified so they can't get out...and you know what, in a few years, they'll die out...do you know why? They can't reproduce"

"unnatural... I think that it's detrimental, and ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization"

Now lets hear from James Dobson

"Homosexuals are not monogamous. They want to destroy the institution of marriage. It will destroy marriage. It will destroy the Earth."

Rick Santorum........

“[Gay marriage] threatens my marriage. It threatens all marriages. It threatens the traditional values of this country.”

- Speaking to The New York Times Magazine, May 2005

“I would argue that the gay community has not made the argument. They may have made the argument as to why they want it, but they have not made any arguments as to why this is beneficial for society. They have not made any argument – convincing or otherwise, that I’m aware of – as to what the impact would be on heterosexual marriages and what the impact would be on children…. What do we know, really, about children raised by same-sex couples? We’re into, in many respects, an unknown territory.”

- Interview with The Pew Forum on Religious and Public Life, April 2008

“This is common sense. This is nature, and what we’re trying to do is defy nature because a certain group of people want to be affirmed by society.”

- In an interview with CNS, 2011

What they are is an extended family who members have been brainwashed by the family

Same thing can be said about any religion.

This is what happened to Westboro in the great State of Oklahoma. More people need to be like this towards this hate group.

The "Baptist" church in Westboro. I was not raised Baptist, but I am a Southern Baptist now. We would NEVER act in this manner. God hates sin but loves the sinner and provided a redemption for us through Jesus Christ, but this is NOT their mentality. They will be judged severely by God and even though I cannot judge, God says we can judge by their fruit. Their fruit is something God does not endorse, nor would go this route. It is pure evil and hatred their mentality and what they do. And deprogrammer, I would, in your estimation be a "right wingnut" because I endorse a marriage between a man and woman, but we do not endorse the slaughter of homosexuals, that is against God's guidelines of do not murder. the protection of unborn children, aged and handicapped and my ability to practice my relationship with Christ in freedom. But this is not what we are talking here. Westboro, is NOT a church, should not have church status and all churches should not be compared to this abomination. You cannot judge one church and make a blanket statement imposed on all others. They may have a first amendment right, but they did cross the line.

I do not know of one incident where they incited a riot or were violent---That's why it's referred to as 'incitment'. The boiling point is already there. WBC's presence is enough for officials of any village to be wary of their own citizens and probable resentment pushing boundaries of rationality.

Ignore them, and deny them relevance.

@cgtrav-

Oh, I support freedom, hence "Pro Freedom". Sure, let the Westboro scum bring it! At the same time, others have a right to express their sentiments as well now don't they? So if they pommel the crap out of them (as they deserve) then they're exercising their freedoms of speech equally as well. So there ya go!

JemstarC said:

I do not agree with or endorse this church but I think a rumor caused mass hysteria with the Newtown funerals. Also I have only seen this church protest at military funerals so I don't understand the anti-gay stance.

Gilboagirl said;

What are they going to protest anyway?

According to Westboro Baptist's Twitter account, their reasoning is that they were going to picket the Newtown funerals praising God for carrying out His justice--since CT just legalized equal rights for same-sex marriages during the election, the deaths of the children is God's retaliation.

Never Stop asking Questions said:

Why can't local, state or the Federal government create "free speech zones" like Bush Lite did during the illegal Iraq War?

In Oklahoma they did--passed a law saying any protest carried out in conjunction with a funeral had to be carried out 500 feet (the length of 1 1/2 football fields) from the location of the funeral, had to be over 2 hours before the funeral was about to start and had to wait until 2 hours after the funeral to continue.

Comedienne Lisa Lampanelli was on her way to do a show in Kansas City when she heard that Westboro Baptist was gong to show up outside the theater where she was going to do her show and protest. She sent out a note saying that for every Westboro Baptist person who showed up, she would donate $1000 to the organization Gay Men's Health Crisis.

The Gay Men's Health crisis got $20,000 that day.

The Supreme Court has decided over the years that there are limits to free speech. I'll post the criteria below and you can decide for yourself if Westboro Baptist's sentiments meet any of these criteria:

Does the First Amendment mean anyone can say anything at any time? No. The Supreme Court has rejected an interpretation of speech without limits.

Because the First Amendment has such strong language, we begin with the presumption that speech is protected. Over the years, the courts have decided that a few other public interests — for example, national security, justice or personal safety — override freedom of speech. There are no simple rules for determining when speech should be limited, but there are some general tests that help.

Clear and Present Danger; Will this act of speech create a dangerous situation? The First Amendment does not protect statements that are uttered to provoke violence or incite illegal action.

Fighting words:Was something said face-to-face that would incite immediate violence?

Libel and Slander: Was the statement false, or put in a context that makes true statements misleading? You do not have a constitutional right to tell lies that damage or defame the reputation of a person or organization.

Obscenity: In June 1973 in Miller v. California, the Supreme Court held in a 5-to-4 decision that obscene materials do not enjoy First Amendment protection. In the three-part Miller test, three questions must receive affirmative responses for material to be considered “obscene”:

1. Would the average person, applying the contemporary community standards, viewing the work as a whole, find the work appeals to the prurient interest?
2. Does the work depict or describe sexual conduct in a patently offensive way?
3. Does the work taken as a whole lack serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value?

Conflict with Other Legitimate Social or Governmental Interests: Does the speech conflict with other compelling interests? For example, in times of war, there may be reasons to restrict First Amendment rights because of conflicts with national security.

Time, Place and Manner: These regulations of expression are content-neutral. A question to ask: Did the expression occur at a time or place, or did the speaker use a method of communicating, that interferes with a legitimate government interest? For example, distribution of information should not impede the flow of traffic or create excessive noise levels at certain times and in certain places.

@Never Stop Asking Questions....you are absolutely right, sad the repukes collapse all the comments they don't like; can't fix stupid.

Well I can count at least 3 of the 10 commandments that WBC is bashing.

Thou shalt not bear false witness. Unless one of them asked god directly if he hates anyone, then its a lie.

Thou shalt honor thy father and mother, many of them problably had family that protected the US in the past. Talk about slandering your own ancestors.

Thou shalt not take the lord name in vain. God hates someone sure counts that way for me.

@ deprogrammer, so you post some "quotes" by Bachmann to validate your entire posts. So what. I can tell you, at least for the one where a Teacher is talking about "his gayness" to his elementary students is absolutely out of line doing so and should be called out on it. A straight teacher would NEVER talk about his/her sex life to an elementary student, let alone a Middle or High School student. TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE! So how could a gay person doing so be OK? It is not and never should be.

And by the way, I get by your posts you are one of those who pin the label "hate" on anyone who does not support gays/gay marriage. That is an incredibly stupid mistake on your part. There is an entire range of emotions between support and hate. Hate is at the total opposite end of the spectrum. (Very few people, religious or otherwise hate gays, but many do not support their choice, and the vast majority of those don't even talk about it.) Not supporting can never be inferred as hate. It is no different than giving a donation to the Boy Scouts and then your friend tells you you hate the Girl Scouts because you didn't support them too. Totally ridiculous. Let alone using a way less than 1% of the people claiming to be Christians to label all the rest as hate mongers.

Email this link to your friends and family: http://wh.gov/RI5h

Britt Carter - It is well past the time for the WBC to fold up their tent, pack their bags, and get the hell out of town.

There really should be an organized effort to 'protest' at all WBC church services and meetings. Dozens, if not hundreds of people should protest peacefully, and ask - "What Would Jesus Do?"

I think Jesus would not approve of WBC protests or picketing at funerals of children, firefighters, police, or U.S. Military. It is time to fight fire with fire, or, apply a lot of water to the flames of hate.

I see people using this to bash people who have right wing or conservative views. One guy even qoutes Michelle Bachman in huge capital letters. She doesn't represent all conservatives no more than Flava Flav represents all liberals. There are extremist on the left and the right, bad people come in all shapes, colors, sizes, genders and political affiliations. No one group has a monopoly on lunatics. is PROFREEDOM right for promoting violence? I don't think so, but I never bury a child who served their country, while listening to protesters at their funeral. I may just pray for the protesters or I may go Rambo. Grief stricken parents are time bombs and its just a matter of time before someone gets hurt or killed. Push people and at some point they snap, 1st Amendment won't protect them from a grieving father, so let them keep it up.

I live in KS and have seen this bizarre group in action a number of times. They even picketed my son's high school graduation ceremony. The Westboro Baptist Church is not Christian at all. They are just a crazy interbred extended family whose beliefs include the teachings of Jim Jones, Charles Manson and Bozo the Clown...

WhistleBerries,

"There really should be an organized effort to 'protest' at all WBC church services and meetings. Dozens, if not hundreds of people should protest peacefully, and ask - "What Would Jesus Do?"

I think Jesus would not approve of WBC protests or picketing at funerals of children, firefighters, police, or U.S. Military. It is time to fight fire with fire, or, apply a lot of water to the flames of hate."

This is a very good idea. The WBC church doesn't know Christ.

Willowbrook - you are a moron.

I finally figured it out. Old Phelps either got backended or else someone in his family, possibly a son turned Gay and it's eating him so bad he has to make others (who really aren't gay) suffer. Or maybe as he was growing up some kid made him get on his knees and praying wasn't on the agenda.

TexasArmadillo

The WBC is no more a church than I am a tuna fish. Their actions and message differ greatly from the teachings of Jesus. What they are is an extended family who members have been brainwashed by the family patriarch, who has gone crazy.

You have to remember that many versions of the Bible were around before Jesus was born and that Jesus' teachings were contrary to Bible teachings, he was considered a radical. One example would be the bible is about eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Jesus is about forgiveness. If you know what a Baptist church is by definition, Westboro calling themselves a baptist church is also quite strange considering they follow the Bible's teachings more than Jesus'. It was Jesus and John the Baptist who started baptizing "believers" of any age(How a Baptist Church functions today) instead of infants after they are born. Westboro borrowed one teaching from Jesus, but other than that does a pretty good job of representing the teachings of the Bible. My opinion on the matter is that Westboro sucks, and hopefully their "judgment day" will come soon.

Alright CHRISTIANS ..... time to step up

Who is worse: Members of the Westboro Baptist Church or non-believers?

Think about your answer to this question every time your criticize those whose rational mind will not allow them to accept ideas that conflict with the laws of nature on "faith."

Skeptics are not the enemy. We don't have bad morals just because we do not believe the impossible and irrational. Most of us like the ideas in the Sermon on the Mount. We just don't believe the man who supposedly spoke those words died for us.

We also don't think that our beliefs give us the right to control the lives of other people. Think about that next time you support one of the Evangelical-backed measures to deny the rights of gay people or to prevent insurance coverage of contraceptives.

Food for thought: why do the "Godless liberals" fight for civil rights and human rights more than the "Christian right"?

STUFF LIKE THIS SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!
I don’t know just what people are thinking!
Perhaps they are not thinking at all, because as nauseating and reprehensible the notion of the Westboro Baptist Church picketing in Newtown is, the idea of our government being given the power to declare any political or religious group as being a criminal “hate group”, or deny their tax status simply because people, even a majority of people, disagree with their political and/or religious views is FAR MORE REPREHENSIBLE and VERY, VERY FRIGHTENING! This is how the Hitler managed to initiate his “Final Solution” in which he demonized the Jews and convinced a sizeable population of German citizens that they were responsible for all of the ills which Germany was at that time experiencing. Starting out small, making them wear a yellow Star of David patch on their clothing to segregate them from the rest of the population, then adding other restrictions, little by little, until they were eventually being murdered by the millions! I pray that we in America are NEVER talked into committing the same mistakes that the Germans did when they naively placed their trust in Hitler and handed to him the very governmental powers he needed to carry out his evil plans. Like most people, I too do not like the Westboro Baptist Church’s message of hate, but as long as they stick to ideas and are not physically harming anyone, I defend their right to exist, just as I defend the rights of groups that I do agree with. Truth be told, I fear that we may already be too far gone, because once we even acknowledged the idea of so called “hate speech” being criminal, we already gave our government powers that it should NEVER have… the power of being thought police, deciding whose ideas are and are not legal.
STUFF LIKE THIS SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME!!!

karl-917535

I see people using this to bash people who have right wing or conservative views. One guy even qoutes Michelle Bachman in huge capital letters. She doesn't represent all conservatives no more than Flava Flav represents all liberals.

I didn't realize that Flava Flav was a United States lawmaker!

Personally I find the WBC behavior abhorrent. Still to silence them would be to dishonor the very soldiers that gave their lives in support of that very freedom. Don't use what a group protests as a mark for whether they deserve to classified be a non profit or religious group. At one time, in this country, protesting slavery would have branded you a heretic. Being a democracy and protecting freedom means you need to protect the freedom of those you don't like or disagree with.

If you really want to silence them then simply don't listen and ignore them. Nothing frustrates a protestor more than people who are indifferent to them. Eventually they fade away. They only continue because of the publicity.

If there is nobody in the forest a falling tree still makes a noise but a protestor doesn't.

karl-917535

I see people using this to bash people who have right wing or conservative views. One guy even qoutes Michelle Bachman in huge capital letters. She doesn't represent all conservatives no more than Flava Flav represents all liberals.

KEEP LEFT

I didn't realize that Flava Flav was a United States lawmaker!

One of the best come-backs I've seen in a while. I believe Bachman was a Member of the U.S. House of REPRESENTATIVES from Minnesota's 6th district.

Debora-389330 - I'm not sure why this group of people call themselves Baptist.

Fred Phelps is an ordained Southern Baptist minister and he preaches the same bigoted crap about gays as most other SBC preachers do. The Vatican and the Mormon church are just as bad as the SBC and WBC on gay rights, and their rhetoric just as bigoted and evil. Even the Pope recently said that gay marriage "threatens humanity itself" and "is a threat to world peace".

It's religious crap like this that made me decide to be an agnostic!

As Ted Nugent put it, "Religion ain't good for nothing except pissin', moanin' and causing wars."

I like Ted's music, but I don't support his politics. Frankly, I don't support politics at all. Seems to me Ted's comment seems to apply to politicians as well.

Sorry folks but the constitution allows for the right to free speech - they have the right along with people who burn the flag or place racist signs in their yards. If you wish to stop their rights then you might as well decide who may vote or own property or any of the freedoms granted therein. Although the method of presentation is a little strong the fact is that homosecuality is not normal or natural...but that doesn't allow you to hurt or kill them...they deserve your pity.

The preacher and congregation of the Westboro Baptist Church have absolutely no business calling themselves Christians or a church! True Christians do not act the way these people do and act. They are nothing less than a hate based cult no better than the KKK and other racist groups in this country. I consider myself a Christian but nowhere near the ultra right wing lunatics populating the Westboro group. I even find it difficult to refer to them as a church as they absolutely disgust me.

Happy, your belief is that they should be pitied. Under normal circumstances I might agree except for two things: (A) I have always believed that ignorance is forgivable and can be pitied, as people in this category do not know any better and can be taught otherwise. (B) Stupidity on the other hand is unforgivable and not to be pitied as stupid people know something is wrong and do it any way. Westboro folks, welcome to category B!

Well maybe some day some crazy lunatic will visit the WBC, blow them to kingdom come and then we can all picket their funerals with signs saying that God is finally happy...

We signed.

We sighed.

Excellent, William.

So william do you support people using the "N" word? I don't and do not support these idiot's using the First Amendment. Oh, I almost forgot, nikon. Blow me.

@stonepipe

I suppose I'm not dealing with a calm and rational person judging by your reply. It does call into question your suitability to own firearms.

Nikon I bet I have passed more F.B.I. checks than you ever have. My post stands, I see William Knight of all That is Liberal declined to answer.

The ONLY religion they represent is Hatred. And they've milked the system to spread that hatred.

Please. These people are just the natural extremist extension of the hatred towards gays that the "mainstream" christian churches espouse.

Until christians everywhere stop their bigotry towards homosexuals, they are merely perpetuating this.

Exactly where did WBC actually incite a riot? Do I think they are a hate group yes and I have signed the petitions too. BUt lets be honest they have never that I recall resorted to violence. They want us to assault them so they than can sue us and accuse us of hate and inciting riots.

Hambone, Not everyone that doesn't believe in the gay agenda are extremists. They just believe that the bible doesn't agree with the lifestyle. Just because everyone doesn't agree with you doesn't make them wrong and it certainly doesn't mean that they hate the gay community. They have their convictions the same as you have yours.

I think we can all agree that the Westboro Baptist Church is a hate group and the community can come together to prevent or minimize the damage they do.

get over it,

Don't you see that your "disagreement" with the lifestyle is the seed that allows the WBC to flourish?

Don't you understand that the fact you call it the "gay agenda" is what makes people like the WBC?

And don't you realize that your bible is the same one they use to spread hatred?

JKLD - The ONLY religion they represent is Hatred.

They don't seem much different from Southern Baptists like Dan Cathy of Chick-fil-A.

No hambone I don't see it that way at all. I feel that I can agree to disagree with you on this subject. I don't believe that I hate anyone, as a matter of fact I have gay friends that I love dearly...I just disagree with their lifestyle. It's not up to me to judge them, and I would be the first one there to defend them if anyone tried to physically harm them. I certainly don't agree with the hatred that Westboro Baptist church spews...it makes me as sick as it does any of you. I don't believe that if Jesus were walking this earth today he would approve of their actions at all. We truly need to learn how to have our own convictions without forcing our convictions on other people. Jesus lead by example...he did try to teach...but you always have free will.

Alright, get over it, I will agree to disagree. Especially since I tend to agree with you about not forcing convictions. But really, the "gay friend" angle?

get over it-708790 - Not everyone that doesn't believe in the gay agenda are extremists.

What's the "gay agenda" in your view? From what I can tell gays simply want equal legal rights, just like any other American.

They just believe that the bible doesn't agree with the lifestyle.

"Lifestyle"? What "lifestyle"? Your comment sounds really bigoted and ignorant, at the very least.

It also sounds like you might be a Christofascist, especially if you think your bible-babble should be enforced by our secular government.

Religion protected by first amendment. But, nothing is said about inciting a riot. That issue will soon need to be addressed.

If they're protesting peacefully and not advocating violence, they're not inciting a riot, even if one results. They're simply exercising their own constitutional rights. It will be the rioters who are at fault.

I think that WBC is reprehensible. But, attempting to muzzle a group's message because it is unpopular is ultimately self-defeating.

skrekk, you're the one that sounds uninformed. Obviously you didn't read everything that I wrote or you would notice that I don't believe the government should enforce my convictions or yours for that matter. Do you want me to spell out lifestyle for you? l-i-f-e-s-t-y-l-e everyone has one...you and me, gay or straight. Look it up...or here, I'll do it for you.

life·style

/ˈlaɪfˌstaɪl/ Show Spelled [lahyf-stahyl] Show IPA

noun
1.
the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group.

I really don't care what you think about me to be quite honest. Your opinion has absolutely no value at all. I believe the way I believe and you're free to do the same. I'm not picketing to keep anyone from having their rights...right or wrong. I am a christian...that doesn't make me stupid. If you think people like you are going to change my mind by making ignorant comments than you are no better than the people at Westboro Baptist Church trying to force their rubbish upon others. Maybe you need to examine your thinking...you think???

Hambone, Sorry...I'm not really sure how to convey the message that they are my friends and they happen to be gay. I don't normally need to...but in this context it was necessary. IMO

get over it-708790 - skrekk, you're the one that sounds uninformed. Obviously you didn't read everything that I wrote or you would notice that I don't believe the government should enforce my convictions or yours for that matter.

OK, cool. You're a bigot, but you're not a Christofascist. That's good in my book since it's a benign form of bigotry.

Do you want me to spell out lifestyle for you? l-i-f-e-s-t-y-l-e everyone has one...you and me, gay or straight. Look it up...or here, I'll do it for you.

I'm not sure I have a particular "lifestyle" as a straight guy. I have a "lifestyle" as a snowboarder, an employer, a father, etc, but not as a straight guy. Just an FYI, sexual orientation isn't a "lifestyle" of any sort (no more than "blue eyes" is a "lifestyle"), but "lifestyle" is a rather ignorant term to use to describe sexual orientation.

I know a great deal about my gay daughter's "lifestyle" because she's in med school and constantly sleep deprived, but virtually nothing about her "lifestyle" because she's gay. All I know is that she likes women just like I do.

When you say "I have gay friends," it just reminds me of people who would say, "I don't hate black people, I have black friends," right before telling some racist joke or something. That's all.

Skrekk, to me you are the one on the right track here. What ever happened to just live and let live? I am not gay but I have no problem with someone who is. Everybody has the right to decide for themselves. I do not push my being straight on them and expect vice versa. I have two very close friends who are a gay couple and are the co-Godparents of one of my grandchildren. We consider each other family and I usually do not even think of them as gay. I try not to see people as straight or gay. I try only to see people!

Whetehr we like it or not the first ammendment does not classify the type of speach that is free. Flag burning, claiming military honors not earned are all protected speach, so is hate speach. It becomes unprotected peach when it becomes specific threats, or causes panic (yelling fire in a crowded theatre), picketing a funeral is protected and the court has already ruled as much.

WHat we can and should do is contine to have them declared a hate group - but we all need to realize there is no such Federal Government list - we need to have their tax exempth status as a church revoked.

The KKK don't even like the Westboro Baptist folks. They counter-protested a WBC protest in (I believe it was) South Carolina.

You know you're screwed up when even the KKK doesn't like you.

Before removing their tax-exempt status, we have to define a bright line. How far may a church go in its hate speech before it loses tax exemption? Is "god doesn't like fags" OK, while "god hates fags" not OK? Or is hatred of gays OK, but we draw the line at protesting at military funerals? If we don't have clear, objective standards, the threat of removing tax exemption because of unpopular speech becomes a muzzle on the freedom of speech and religion.

Personally, I'm in favoring of avoiding the problem by revoking tax exemptions for all churches.

JemStarC: Actually, they have protested funerals other than military. Steve Jobs, Matthew Shepard, Ryan Dunn, Elizabeth Edwards, Michael Jackson, the town of Joplin, Missouri after it was devastated by tornadoes, and the Illinois Holocaust Museum - they made it to all of these funerals.

The WBC is not picky about who they hate. This, however, is sinking to a new low, even for them. Unfortunately, their leaders are also lawyers, and the 'church' is acting within it's rights. They aren't violent, they just have a gift for making everyone else want to commit acts of violence against them. Recently, Albert Snyder, the father of a slain servicemember's case against the WBC was overturned on First Amendment grounds, and instead of winning $5 million as was first decided, the decision was overturned and he ended up owing the 'church' $16,500.

Why would you expect that? Westboro uses intimidation to try and repress the rights of others.

If their constitutional rights are violated they should be represented just as if it happened to you.

Trying to take a shot at the ALCU, like Hannity and Limbaugh tell you to; while undermining your own rights is par for the course for the misinformed.

Remarkably, the only religious freedoms the ACLU advocates for are Muslim... and they're actively tearing down Judeo-Christian religions.... they're for the Constitution only when it agrees with the Leftist agenda... like the tenth Amendment giving the federal govt total control of everything... or the fifth Amendment for all of Oblunder's tax cheat appointments....

Well Fed Up I just thought you'd like to know that comment is in the running for today's dumbest so far. Cross your fingers you may actually win.

Fed Up has an ax to grind and will take every opportunity to grind it, regardless of the lack of facst and logic.

Remarkably, the only religious freedoms the ACLU advocates for are Muslim... and they're actively tearing down Judeo-Christian religions.... they're for the Constitution only when it agrees with the Leftist agenda... like the tenth Amendment giving the federal govt total control of everything... or the fifth Amendment for all of Oblunder's tax cheat appointments....

They also dine on aborted fetuses and are planning on forcing everyone to drive hybrid cars by 2016.

woops fed up,

and there I was agreeing with you previously. the ACLU are advocates for all. What they are not for is one religion forcing itself on all people.

Fed Up. You need to do a little research before you write. Even the most basic of googling would have provided you with information that would have prevented your embarassingly stupid statement that the ACLU only advocates for Muslims.

Sarah-3043284

They also dine on aborted fetuses and are planning on forcing everyone to drive hybrid cars by 2016.

"I don't care who ya are. That there's funny."

Fed Up doesn't need to do any research. He has fox news to tell him what to think.

Remarkably, the only religious freedoms the ACLU advocates for are Muslim... and they're actively tearing down Judeo-Christian religions.... they're for the Constitution only when it agrees with the Leftist agenda... like the tenth Amendment giving the federal govt total control of everything... or the fifth Amendment for all of Oblunder's tax cheat appointments....

I used to think that people didn't actually believe that kind of nonsense. I used to think that the people spewing this garbage were strictly trying to be inflammatory. I used to believe that until someone in my own family advised me to read the Book of Revelation which contains details about how Obama is the Antichrist. Good grief.

The fact that people are truly ignorant enough to believe this crazy stuff is very disheartening and kind of scary.

They also dine on aborted fetuses and are planning on forcing everyone to drive hybrid cars by 2016.

Yeah, that there is good stuff! Got to keep highlighting their lunacy.

DrMan - I'd expect the ACLU to be right out there supporting Westboro

As well they should if the civil rights of the Phelps cult are violated.

That's what the ACLU does - defend everyone's civil rights, even the civil rights of unsavory types like Rush Limbaugh and the KKK.

You're not really a supporter of the 1st Amendment until you can defend the free speech rights of people with whom you vehemently disagree.

That's what the ACLU does - defend everyone's civil rights, even the civil rights of unsavory types like Rush Limbaugh and the KKK.

They also defended neo-Nazis in Skokie, IL.

You're not really a supporter of the 1st Amendment until you can defend the free speech rights of people with whom you vehemently disagree.

skrekk .. that's the best statement of the day!

They also dine on aborted fetuses and are planning on forcing everyone to drive hybrid cars by 2016.

Thanks for nothing, Sarah. You've given away the ACLU's biggest secrets. What's next? Detailing the "gay agenda"?

Does freedom of speech include spraying walls of blood to make art work? How about showing a video in a museum of men beating a horse to death with hammers and calling that art? Should that be defended as "freedom of speech"? The pyscho woman who actually showed that video was pretty positive she was an artist. These rights are not "unlimited". There are boundaries when they start to violate the decency of the masses. Snuff films are being outlawed. I would hope all you morons defending the WBC's 'freedom of speech" rights would agree that some things should not be allowed.

At least the majority of us agree that expressing oneself with child pornography is unacceptable. See, there are limits that we as a society agree should not be crossed. The WBC has crossed that line, as far as I am concerned.

Really, so expressing an opinion should be a capital offense in your America? I despise the Westboro "church" as much as anyone. They are the Christian equivalent of radical fundamentalist islamics. As gun control advocates suggest however, the only reason for having an assault weapon is to kill someone. So you must be expecting that the police, armed with assault weapons, will kill these people. If that is your suggestion, you are no better than they are.

JoeMike404, some people NEED killing. What would you do if it was your child's funeral? Stand up for the picketers rights to free speech? If it happened to one of mine, I'd take a steel pipe and smash heads with it. As many as I could before the law came to protect them. In the old days, the "law" would take a lot of time to come around and then they wouldn't be so sure who did it. No one would.

Stand up for the picketers rights to free speech

Either everyone has free speech, or no one has free speech. There is no middle ground.

I dislike what you have to say about disregarding free speech, should I be allowed to smash your head in with a steel pipe?

What's wrong with what realitychequer said? He was just expressing himself and he has a right to. I hope WBC burns to the ground with all of them in it! That would be awesome!

Oh! That made me feel good!

GeorgieBoy,

some people NEED killing.

And it's your job to decide who those people are???

What would you do if it was your child's funeral? Stand up for the picketers rights to free speech? If it happened to one of mine, I'd take a steel pipe and smash heads with it. As many as I could before the law came to protect them.

I too, would smash their faces with a steal pipe. HOWEVER, the law is reason free of emotion. If our laws mirrored our personal bias and subjectivity, we would live in chaos. The very JOB of the law, is to ensure we aren't running our society on pure emotion, and the big picture IS logically looked at.

In the old days, the "law" would take a lot of time to come around and then they wouldn't be so sure who did it. No one would.

That's what we call progress.

Somey guy, you are incorrect, there is a middle ground. You could argue that yelling "bomb" on a plane, or "fire" in a crowded theater are free speech. Free speech should not impose or trump anyone else's right to a private funeral ceremony for their family members.

All of you people stating it is their right, they are simply there to intimidate and harass. Anyone on the street that is intimidating or harassing anyone else with their "free speech" is arrested. This should be no different.

You could argue that yelling "bomb" on a plane, or "fire" in a crowded theater are free speech

It isn't the "act of speaking" the word fire in a crowded theater that is outlawed, it's the act of creating panic that can produce a tangible, physical threat.

Free speech should not impose or trump anyone else's right to a private funeral ceremony for their family members.

Correct, that's why the protest is in a public space, where there is no objective or subjective reasonable, expectation of privacy. They're not in the church, funeral home, or private homes.

Anyone on the street that is intimidating or harassing anyone else with their "free speech" is arrested.

No they aren't. They have to meet the elements of a disorderly disturbance, which normally include more than mere, offensive speech. This is a registered protest, no different than the KKK, the NAACP, anti-abortion, pro-choice, LGBT...

No one is forcing anyone to listen to them or engage with them. You're choosing to do that on your own. They can't piss you off, harass or intimidate you, unless you give them the courtesy of focusing on them.

Sarah: see above post at 1.43 for Supreme Court exceptions to free Speech.

None of them are applicable to this scenario. Snyder v. Phelps would be the precedent applied to this...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/02/westboro-baptist-church-w_n_830209.html

http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/10pdf/09-751.pdf

SCOTUS already decided this issue, and they sided with Westboro.

In the old days, the "law" would take a lot of time to come around and then they wouldn't be so sure who did it.

Yes, just like the attack on May 14, 1961, in a Birmingham, AL, bus station where the civil rights "Freedom Riders" were left unprotected by police. The "old days" sure were better, weren't they?

All of you people stating it is their right, they are simply there to intimidate and harass. Anyone on the street that is intimidating or harassing anyone else with their "free speech" is arrested. This should be no different.

I don't think anyone here is saying that is their right or harass or disrupt. What many of us are saying is that it is their right to protest, which is a very different thing. At the WBC protests at military funerals, they are often a quarter-mile or more from the services with the people inside church or funeral home unable to hear or see them. The serviceman's father who brought the case that eventually went to the Supreme Court didn't even know of the WBC presence until AFTER the service when he saw them on the evening news.

They are idiots!

I understand they have a "right" to be they way they are.

I think the tree of liberty needs to be watered by patriots with the blood of tyrants occasionally. Sorry to twist your words Mr. Jefferson but I hope you agree.

hardly...

It has nothing to do with religion.

It has EVERYTHING to do with religion Heather. Their position that acceptance of gays brings god's wrath upon the country is a common theme of many christian groups.

Their position that acceptance of gays brings god's wrath upon the country is a common theme of many christian groups.

You're just as bad as all of the religious nuts. Good job generalizing a whole group of people.

Some guy, you personally may not agree with leroy but sorry it is a common theme all you need to do is read the news.

Seems like the vast majority of conservative Christians has the same bigoted and hateful views about gays as does the WBC, and that includes Southern Baptists, Mormons, evangelicals, and the Catholic hierarchy (vs the laity).

And guess what skrekk...they can have any views they want. As long as they are respectful and courteous to other humans, it shouldn't matter. Who are you to judge?

Cuban, I fully support the right of dumb bigots to hold and express those odious and ignorant views.

But I don't support the desire of dumb bigots and Christofascists to use our secular government to enforce their silly sharia laws, or to deny the civil rights of gays. Southern Baptists and Mormons are no better than the KKK in that regard.

skrekk - I cannot speak for the Southern Baptist Convention, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints or "evangelicals" (whatever you mean by that term). The Catholic hierarchy does not hold or preach views anywhere near those of the Westboro group. Do try learning something before speaking. You are intentionally engaging in ridiculous, over-the-top comparison that any reasonable person would know have no basis in fact. The classic textbook definition of a troll.

joemike404 - The Catholic hierarchy does not hold or preach views anywhere near those of the Westboro group.

Sounds like you missed the Pope's most recent statement which said that gay marriage "threatens humanity itself" and "is a threat to world peace".

In contrast, all the nutballs at the WBC do is say that America's tolerance for gays will bring their god's judgement on America.

The reality is that the Catholic church has spent millions lobbying to deny the civil rights of gays in the US, while the WBC has done nothing remotely like that. The Catholic church has a very, very long history of persecuting gays.

And while 71% of American Catholics support marriage equality, many other Catholics still do listen to the Pope's ignorant and bigoted pronouncements. No one but the Phelps clan really cares what Fred Phelps says.

Actually they ACT more like the SEIU.... and the other Oblunder union thugs....

Nope takenaka Fred Phelps is a registered Democrat.

They are not Hell's Angels, they are a group called the Patriot Guard Riders. They were formed in 2005 by veterans who were fed up the garbage being spewed by the Westboro tools at soldiers' funerals. Since then they have done a wonderful job of protecting and shielding mourners from the hate of said tools.

The Patriot Guard stands as a buffer between protesters and families of military and first responders. They also do send offs and welcome homes for our military. If they were at the funerals it wouldn't have been an official PGR mission as these were not military or first responder funerals. It would have been bikers helping citizens.

From their website:

*** Connecticut Elementary Shootings ***

The recent, tragic shootings in Connecticut weigh heavy on us all. The Patriot Guard understands the anguish caused by such a calamity as this and our hearts go out to the family and friends of those affected by this horrific event.

We (PGR) receive hundreds of emails a day requesting the PGR to stand in honor at the planned services. However, the PGR is not a counter protest group. Our mission statement is clear and regrettably the circumstances surrounding this tragic event do not fall within our mission statement. For more details on our missions statement, please go to www.PatriotGuard.org and review the information located in the “About Us” section in the Site Navigation section.

Again, our hearts go out to all of the families of the affected families, and to the community as a whole, for this tremendous loss.

Patriot Guard Riders, Inc.

lafred-689583 -- Thank you for that wonderful bit of information, and Thank You, Patriot Guard Riders!!!!!!

Spaceman Mike - What I gather from your post above is that while they were not there in an official role, many may have been there unofficially.

Lisa - Yes and they would not have been wearing their PGR colors. (Cuts with PGR emblems on them). Many of us do that to help the families and communities.

Cool!! And Thank You!!!!

If you enjoy riding motorcycles and standing in a flag line in the heat, cold, rain, wind, etc., shedding tears at funerals and when little kids hung their returning soldiers, look into joining the PGR. It's free and the paybacks are great!

The PGR response seems to be the right way to handle this, but too bad it's outside their mission statement.

Hat up and head out Justin...they're calling on you to act. Rent a bus and take all your friends.

Like Dubya's "free speech zones"?

Yes, let's pass laws to make sure that people are free to exercise their right to free speech where it can't be heard.

A better idea might be to do the same for the 2nd Amendment, so that people can exercise that right when no one else is within shooting distance.

WHich is just what they want, violence today and the lawsuit filed tomorrow.

Already has been, we chased their stupid asses out of Ottumwa, IA. Cops told them to run for their lives.

Holly:

And claiming martyrdom after that!

Actually, the freedom of expression does mean you can blast it in front of those who do not wish to hear it. That's what expression is. And we can't stop them because they share the same First Amendment rights we do.

Anyone who acts against them would be the law breaker.

There aren't a lot of people calling for a total ban on all guns. Settle down. Just a bit more regulation on certain types. That's all. No conspiracy theory or master plan to leave you unarmed.

Ban knee jerk reactions.

Types of guns?......uh.....isn't that how it always is started. My aunt was killed recently in an auto accident. Let's "legislate" the type of cars on our roads. Oh wait, we already do.....But then again, I gotta agree with limiting large capacity clips/magazines. What use are they? We can "fight" about control of our guns, and I'd totally agree with most that we can't "outlaw" legally owned weapons/guns (sorry for weapon thing as I'm a veteran), but come on folks, who needs a 100 round magazine?? Lord, the Army didn't have them that large for the M-16 in Nam!

Ban guns or magazines? I see Chicago has just had their 500th murder for this year. They have a strict gun ban law there. See how that works!

Ban takenaka.

Connecticut has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation. The "man" in question was denied when he tried to buy a gun at a sporting goods store earlier in the year.

New York City has some of the strictest gun laws in the country, and is among the safest, if not THE safest, large city in the country. So, perhaps strict guns laws do work after all.

@Barry: Surely you recall that just 6 months ago that Jeffrey Johnson shot his ex-boss outside of the Empire State Building?

Safety per 100,000 people is one thing, but NYC is also the most densely populated city in the US as well as the one with the most police protection. Throw in all the anti-terrorism funding from the Feds (and all those cameras!) and of course the city is pretty safe. If strict gun laws worked, then how can one explain all of the shooting over 30 years in Chicago and DC?
My point was that even with all of the laws in place, Sandy Hook happened because someone chose to break the law. Just like Jeffrey Johnson did.

@Barry: Surely you recall that just 6 months ago that Jeffrey Johnson shot his ex-boss outside of the Empire State Building?

Did I say that there were NO murders in NYC? Also, although NYC has strict gun laws, areas that surround it do not. Cars are not searched when they cross the Hudson River. Someone intent on getting a gun into the city will succeed. What the guns laws have done, however, is made it more difficult for someone to get hold of gun during a moment or two of passion. They have also made people more reluctant to carry guns because of the severe punishment that can result if they ARE caught. A pro football player went to prison because he was carrying a gun that went off in his pocket. No one else was hurt, but he went to prison anyway.

Isn't it odd that mass shootings tend to occur in suburban and rural areas?

Did I say that there were NO murders in NYC?

No, but you were inferring that the reason why NYC was a pretty safe city were the gun laws.

Also, although NYC has strict gun laws, areas that surround it do not.

Connecticut and New Jersey most certainly do. So does NY state.

Cars are not searched when they cross the Hudson River.

And? The Hudson isn't a border with another state...
A recent gun-bust in Brooklyn pulled in *A CANNON*. My point remains: simply making something illegal to own does very little to stop crime.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/brooklyn/gun_play_shock_lSfZwcIl8nLFeDeGOXIeuJ

What the guns laws have done, however, is made it more difficult for someone to get hold of gun during a moment or two of passion.
To the same point it's made it harder to get high on Marijuana.

They have also made people more reluctant to carry guns because of the severe punishment that can result if they ARE caught.

Yes, they've made law-abiding citizens that are denied licenses to not carry guns. That doesn't do much of anything. England BANNED handguns in the mid 1990s. Handgun crime has doubled since then. Criminals do not care.

A pro football player went to prison because he was carrying a gun that went off in his pocket. No one else was hurt, but he went to prison anyway.

Yeah, and that was the stupidest thing ever. If he had a permit, he would never have gone to prison. All it did was hurt the NY Giants and waste a year of Plaxico Burress's time. Should he have gotten off scott-free for breaking the law? No. Should he have gone to jail? Hell no.

Isn't it odd that mass shootings tend to occur in suburban and rural areas?
Isn't it odd that mass shootings tend to occur in "gun ban", urban areas?

There were 16 mass shootings in 2012: http://www.thenation.com/blog/171774/fifteen-us-mass-shootings-happened-2012-84-dead#

Of those: 13 of 16 occurred in cities, and ...ALL of these occurred in areas where guns were banned except for (at best) five: #1, 5, 7, 8, & 14.

And then the 48,000 would be guilty of assault and battery.

but it would be well worth it hambone, well worth it.

@ Georgieboy, So your answers to this is violence! You have the same mentality as the shooter at the school. It's sad to think that you will pass a back ground check...

What if they're right, or can you prove otherwise? We should ignore these people, but not judge them.

Who's this Matthew guy and when did he and god ever speak?

al-Qaeda is a religious group, should they have a right to establish themselves in the U.S.A.? Some groups use religion as a front for other activities, and it's not hard to distinguish the difference between a religious group and a group with a separate agenda hiding behind religion.

I have seen them multiple times too. And I concur, no one should lay a hand on them, although if God causes a tree to crush Fred for defaming His name, no tears will be shed. And I too plan to dance on his grave when that day comes. And oh yes, they need to lose their tax-exempt status. If the Klan doesn't have one, neither should this hate group.

Middle America Man - And oh yes, they need to lose their tax-exempt status. If the Klan doesn't have one, neither should this hate group.

Actually the KKK is tax exempt as a 501(c)(3).

The government doesn't define or penalize hate groups, but if the WBC is to be penalized so should all the Southern Baptist churches since they preach the exact same bigoted and hateful message. Phelps is in fact an ordained Southern Baptist preacher.