I agree, that is what should happen. However, I'll believe it when I see it.

Fluffy -

The cops failed to kep tabs on the "psycho?" (correct spelling)

I don't think that is in their job description. You might complain about a parole board, or maybe the laws and lawyers and judges . . .

FluffyBunny's

He was no longer on probation from what I have read, the cops have no obligation to keep track of him after he has completed his probation.

Paraphrasing: I don't know what yer talking about, I didn't do it, it's a set-up, I'm as innocent as a child, I would never do such a thing, I run a legitimate establishment, hey where's my freebie lawyer...I get to make a call, right???

I am a resident of Webster,NY. In reference to recent press conference, Mr. Spengler was with this women when she purchased the assult rifle and another rifle at a local Gander Mountain in early June of this year. Also in a three page suicide note he said he acquired two of three weapons from this woman who was a neighbor. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families of these fallen and injured heros! We will be attending the funerals this weekend along with several police and firemen agencies from around the northeast and Canada.

Steve, it's people like you (crazy for sure) that can't have a logical discussion about weapons without making a political statement that's nuts.

Steve- Been reading too much Lib media propaganda I see.

The NRAs main argument for years is that 95% of all violent crime is perpetrated by only 5% of the people. This case is proof of that. It is not the firearm but the person. If the criminal justice system worked the way it was designed, this guy would not be out of jail, on parole, in the first place and two more people would not be dead.

The attention to guns lately is a rally cry for the idiots of this country.... Can't be the person at fault, must be the gun..... I'm Okay ,You're okay lets have a drag together.

Disarmed citizens are subjects...... What every Lib politician wants.

LIVE TO RIDE

If that is the case she is done, straw purchase, accessory to first degree murder, plus the falsified info, possibly conspiracy charges. Probably 15-25 years.

JBW

This country has more guns with fewer restrictions than any other country in the developed world and our gun death rate is approximately 1000 times that of those other countries. Blame who ever you like, but the common denominator is guns and people and since we are not likely to ban people the real solution is to ban most guns and seriously regulate gun responsibility for every gun owner.

he attention to guns lately is a rally cry for the idiots of this country.... Can't be the person at fault, must be the gun..... I'm Okay ,You're okay lets have a drag together.

Asinine statement. We don't regulate inanimate objects in this country .... we regulate the behavior of people. When we ban guns we are clearly regulating WHAT PEOPLE ARE LEGALLY ABLE TO DO. Get it?

she can kiss her azz goodbye. someone is going to make a huge statement on this one as they should!

She should be charged with accessory to murder. This is what the "it's people, not the guns" folks are all about. certainly there should be no argument from ANYONE that this woman needs to be charged and sentanced to the full extent of the law. She bought guns for a murderer who she knew should not have guns. Whether you think it is guns or the person at fault, she needs to be locked up for these murders.

don...nope....he will never get it. Mostly because idiots like that think that they have the right to own any weapon that they want, regardless of the consequences to the country, and they believe that anybody that does not think their way is an idiot. The problem that these gun-nuts don't understand is....nobody is trying to take away ALL their toys. We are just trying to reduce the number of assault weapons that is out in the hands of the ordinary citizenry. We've already drawn the line at rocket launchers....we're just asking to back the line up a little. And...the harder they push back, the more we may want the line drawn.

Antistupidity, The accessory charges at this time not including additional charges pending, right now she is looking at 10 years and a $250K fine. Also my bad on the purchase date. She bought the guns in June of 2010.

bull@!$%#.. the cops failed to keep tabs on the psyco.. and now they have to blame someone..

Yeah why blame the person that provided him the weapons? How unfair! (sarcasm) "Yeah that's it my guns were stolen." (said in a Jon Lovitz voice over)

Crazy Steve-1996926

Seeing how the NRA claims that existing laws are more than adequate to keep guns out of criminal's hands and their 'responsible gun owner' makes sure their weapons are secure

That isn't what I understand the NRA's position to be. It is my understanding their position is that more laws won't make a difference. This new information with regard to the shootings actually seems to support the NRA's position......the criminals are going to get the guns, laws won't stop them.

First, As a NRA member I nor the NRA supports STRAW BUYERS. People that say we do are idiots.

Second, if she did buy them for him - and based on his letter and based onthe fact that she can't remember if she reported them stolen - then she should be charged. I support this view and so does the NRA and most NRA members. I wish people would stop saying we beleive somethign we don't.

Third, one has to assume she did because the total value of the guns was more then $2K. Who loses $2K in a theft and does not report it missing???

Charge her with the crime fo straw buying and murder and attempted murder. This will go further then taking guns away from legal owners.

Seewhat

I may have missed it, but nowhere did I find that she is not a citizen. Is your rant based solely on her name? By "us" do you mean bigot? If so, count me out of your "us."

Same old EXCUSES told by murderer facilitators, since this POS had the guns "stolen" she should have proof of that along with records of where they were stored. How many other guns were bought by her and where are they. I say FRY her, make her the face of what will happen to others that do these crimes against society for a quick buck. Let her spend the next 20 years with free room and board courtesy of the good citizens of New York state.

The similarity between Connecticut and Upstate NY is that in both instances the owner/purchaser of the guns did not take responsibility. In CT, if the mother had locked them in a safe that only she had access to, not her psychologically challenged son, the shooting would not have occurred. If this woman in Webster had secured the guns she bought, rather than giving them to Spengler (or even if he stole them and she did report it) it wouldn't have happened.

I believe Americans have a right to own guns. I have a license to carry and own a hand gun. But there needs to be:

STRICT safety and control required of owner, and the law should come down HARD on those that violate safety and control

Rifles need to be registered

Handgun permits need to be renewed annually, and cross checks between licensees and high risk people (mental issues, living with people with mental issues)

No automatic weapons and no high capacity magazines except for those properly trained

Teachers, administrators in schools should be encouraged to carry a weapon and trained appropriately. No bozo's in flak jackets standing in school hallways. If the principal had a handgun and was trained, she could have stopped the CT shooter.

Guns will always be here. We need to deal with them. And stricter laws will only limit law abiding citizens, not criminals.

Hey stupid anti-gunners -

These are not ASSULAT WEAPONS. They are rifles designed to look like a military weapons. They do exactly what other rifles do. Yes they take a large magazine - but they are not military rifles.

Military rifles are "automatic" or "select fire". These are semi automatic. Pull a trigger a bullet comes out.Pull it again and another bullet comes out.

The reality is while the hype and publicity is high - the actual number of cases of murder and mass murder are down. CHECK OUT THE FBI NUMBERS.

FACT - in 1990's more mass killings then in the 2000's (even though gun sales and ownership way, way up over same period.)

FACT - Chicago hitting 500 is a high number but not even close to the high numbers they hit in the 90's. Then it was routine for 800-900 to be killed in Chicago.

FACT - People are killing people in more ways then ever before - guns, knives (9 in San Diego this month.), fire (3 in US in past two weeks) , drowning (4 in CA this month), pushing in front of trains (2 in NY this month) Clearly it is not the guns....It is the people and other factors. Anybody ever stop to think ??? Maybe the economy, the holidays, greater stresses in life, financial worries, divorce, broken families, lack of oppurtunities, rise in mental illness, increase population, media, movies, games, media pushing "DOOM AND GLOOM" andcountless other reasons.

LIVE TO RIDE

He was with her when she bought them, he had them, she doesn't remember if she reported them stolen, the date is irrelevant. They will charge her with the minimum charges to hold her, the rest will come down the line as they build their case. There may be more charges than have been already stated here. I am thinking a total of 15-25 years unless they are out to make an example of her, if they are the additional time usually gets knocked off in appeal, hopefully she will get a lot more.

Good to see that they are investigating where the felon got the guns and making arrests. Responsible gun owners should be happy to see these strawman purchases stopped because it shows that we can have the current laws work to help prevent ILLEGAL gun sales. That's the issue here not legal gun ownership by law abiding citizens or what kind of gun it is but ANY gun falling into the wrong hands.

It's called personal responsibility. Anybody who defends under the counter resales by these jerks who are playing middleman to get around background checks is part of the problem that drives us all towards this needless discussion about weapons bans.

The real crime is that that this murderer made it back onto the streets. He should have been executed the first time.

Oh and BTW there isn't anything political about bashing the NRA. That's you guys reading that in. They are mainly lobbyists for the manufacturers anyway. That's why they lobby to prevent background checks on ALL guns, ignore the resale issue where these criminals get many of the guns, and fear monger about your 2nd amendment rights. That's all very good for business. If there wasn't money in it they wouldn't give a damn about your rights.

And before you go all emotional think about it. Would you rather have to go through a background check, mental exam, show a valid gun owner permit on a private resale, etc... (ie: something to track all gun sales to help prevent criminals/nuts from getting guns) or have your AR-15 and large mags made illegal? I'd choose the former.

@LittleGreenPuppet

And before you go all emotional think about it. Would you rather have to go through a background check, mental exam, show a valid gun owner permit on a private resale, etc... (ie: something to track all gun sales to help prevent criminals/nuts from getting guns) or have your AR-15 and large mags made illegal? I'd choose the former.

So my local lib newspaper can give out my name and address on the internet? No thanks. Let them publish your's.

Lar

Agree with post except the teacher part. I've known some very mentally unstable teachers and wouldn't want them to be anywhere near a firearm! Better to have trained police or military than a teacher or Barney Fife.

I also think that everyone should have a firearm permit to own any firearm. That's what they do in Israel and they aren't so easy to get. You have to submit to a mental and physical exam, background check and gun safety course. That would help address all the issues you mention. It could be concealed carry or different firearm types too with a little extra training. Kinda like a drivers license is now with different classes. If you resell a weapon the transfer needs to be registered so police always know where a legal gun is supposed to be. Like you say stiff penalty on anyone who does not practice responsible ownership or resale. I really think that would help alot of it. Would not eliminate it but it would help a bunch I bet.

@don97524

You are a typical gun freak making the same tired, old arguments

And you are a typical anti-gun lib, spewing the same old BS!

If you are boneheaded enough to believe that if we removed all guns from private possession that the murder rate using knives, hammers, drowning and all other methods would rise by tens of thousands you are too irrational for a real conversation on this subject

You need to get your facts from somewhere other than the Brady Campaign. Stabbings in the UK have gotten so bad that they're now calling for "knife control" It just never ends with liberals!

OldDog

I agree that is wrong and it should not be part of the public record but that is not a valid excuse IMO not to track ALL sales. So long as we allow untracked sales it is far too easy for these nuts to get them. Besides do you really think a criminal is going to target a house where the owner is armed? I would think he would want to go for the unarmed one. And if you secure your weapon properly or carry it with you he isn't going to get it easily.

But yeah bottom line what that POS reporter did was inexcusable.

LittleGreenPuppet

I agree that there are a lot of teachers I would not feel comfortable carrying a weapon, they would have to go through screening and training. But there should be a few in every school willing and able. That way a shooter would not know who has the weapon, rather than Barney Fife.

Xbonz

In 2006 there were approximately 10,000 gun related homicides. In 2009 there were approximately 9100.

In 2006 there were approx. 36000 vehicle related deaths and in 2006 there were approx. 45000 vehicle related deaths.

Are the people who died from vehicles any more or less dead than those killed by firearms? Do their families grieve any more or less? Where is your outrage? Where is your cry to ban cars, trucks and buses? And please don't hand me that garbage about guns being designed for one purpose. There are over 80 million gun owners in this country, are you going to tell me every one of the guns they own have killed somebody or something? If so you are a fool.

And to respond to your other comment about other methods of killing, please check the violent crime rates of the UK and Brazil and then report back how they compare to the US.

Gun nuts always want to compare gun deaths with motor vehicle deaths, but do not want to extend the metaphor any further.

Here are a few things to think about:

• Motor vehicles are used by the vast majority of the citizens of this nation for at least an hour a day and sometimes much longer. Guns are used much, much less frequently.
• Drivers must pass a test and be licensed by the government
• Vehicles are subject to safety checks
• Those who drive vehicles for which greater responsibility is demanded are required to have a chauffeur's license
• We have driving regulations such as speed limits and stop signs ..... gun owners don't want rules that govern responsibility

Okay .... think about those things next time you want to compare gun deaths with motor vehicle deaths, but when it comes right down to it the comparison makes no sense. They are two different issues and to a large extent it makes no more sense comparing gun deaths with vehicle deaths any more than it would make sense to equate gun deaths with cancer or heart disease.

• We are working on reducing deaths due to heart attack, and it is working
• We are working on reducing deaths due to cancer, and it is working
• We are working on reducing deaths due to motor vehicle accidents, and it is working

They are different issues and the solutions are much, much different. We are working on decreasing the death rate in each of these arenas EXCEPT WE ARE DOING TOO DAMN LITTLE ABOUT THE GUN DEATHS. DON'T YOU AGREE?

A good move forward. Now arrest all the "men" gun shop owners who "lose" custody of firearms. Then arrest all "men" gun owners who never report guns stolen until they are used in crimes. If it sounds like I am implying law enforcement only enforces laws against minorities and women, then let me clear this up. I am not implying it, I am yelling it loudly. I hope you all heard me.

Xbonz

This again goes back to lack of responsibility skill with the tool. There actually should be more outrage about the # of deaths on our roads. It is also about volume too. We have way too many idiots on the road. Driving tests should be way harder and skills should be much higher before we are allowed to drive. That's the responsible thing to do.

But let's not pretend for a minute what a gun is for. That argument just doesn't fly. I mean would you really bring a knife to a gunfight? Why do you even own one then? See it just doesn't fly. The whole reason you have one is because they are so good at what they do.

Now do we really want the same volume of morons with guns as we do cars (much less felons and nuts)? I'd much rather make sure that anyone who owns one is qualified to do so and will act responsibly with one. Again it is the responsible thing to do.

in some ways i agree lets make it easier to do a background check, for instance if i sell to a privet party i should be able to call the atf and make sure they can own one not just take their word for it, and also give us access to the FBI date base so we can run numbers on the gun we are gonna buy so that we can make sure its legal, what i disagree with is someone telling me i can not own a sporting rifle (ar-15) or people who don't even understand what a ar-15 is or how it functions making gun laws. And disarming American is the worst idea ever for one it is what gives us protection not just personal protection but protection against any foreign invader, look at history other country would not invade the USA because behind every blade of grass is a firearm, besides that is our constitutional right its an inherent right that can not be taken away

Ah yes, the old 'cars kill people too' argument. Besides the facts put forth in Don's post (1.38), how about this....

How many of these fatal car incidents were deliberate? Can you cite any numbers as to how many of these deaths were caused by a driver trying to kill someone? The vast majority are accidents, caused by poor judgement, drugs/alcohol, mechanical failure, weather, or medical emergencies.

Not the case with gun incidents; roughly 2/3 of non-fatal shootings are deliberate, with only 1/3 being 'accidental'. Among firearm deaths, the accidental percentage goes even lower; about 3%. So 97% of all firearm deaths are deliberate. If 97% of all car accidents were deliberate, they just might get banned....

Michael Bloomberg sent some of his lemmings to Virginia a couple of years ago to make straw purchases. Why wasn't he prosecuted? Oh yeah, he's "anti-gun", but has armed bodyguards. You're not supposed to purchase guns for anyone except immediate family, assuming they're not felons.

@LittleGreenPuppet

You again state that firearms are only good for one thing, and you are, pardon the pun, dead wrong. Not one of mine, except possibly the WWII rifles I own have been used to kill anyone or anything. I must admit though, there is a lot of dead paper around. I have my firearms because I like them, I collect them, and I target shoot. Just like the majority of the 80+ million gun owners. So your argument does not hold water. By the way, who or what should determine who can own a gun? What should that be based on? Age, health, sex, disability, place of residence? Are you willing to tell a handicapped or ill or older individual they have no right to own a firearm for self protection? Really?

@Crazy-Steve-1996926

I'll ask you the same question I asked previously. Are those people killed by accident any less dead or do their families grieve any less than those killed on purpose. And to take it one step further, abortion's sole purpose is the destruction of human life. Why are you not screaming at the top of your lungs from the world's highest mountain that abortion, abortion providers, and surgical tools used in abortions be banned?

@don97524

You asked me if I believe we are doing enough to reduce deaths by firearms. How many more laws do you need? How many more criminals are you willing to let back out on the streets to continue their violent or homicidal ways? As for reducing deaths caused by firearms, if you'd do a little research you will find there is a decline. But of course if you did that it would shoot holes in your argument, right? Here, Ill get you started:

2009: 9,1467

2008: 9,4841

2007: 10,129

2006: 10,225

2005: 10,158

source: http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/united-states

Oh yeah, one more thing. Try to come up with something a little more intelligent than "gun nuts". It is worn out, over used and childish. Or I guess we could just start calling you "anti 2nd Amendment nuts or US Constitution haters".

@ Crazy Steve-1996926, post 1.6

And if the guns had been hand made who would you be blaming? Stop blaming everyone else for your mistakes! You own it not your weapon of choice that day! She bought the weapons for this psycho now let her explain why.

Xbonz is trying to deflect.....

You try to equate accidental death with deliberate death and when it won't fly as a logical argument, you try to divert it into emotion. Whether you're 'more' or 'less' dead depending on the cause has nothing to do with this issue. Bringing abortion into this is yet another stretch. Your argument is intellectually bankrupt, why don't you go back to gun-nut central where your fellow idiots will congratulate you on your brilliance...

Xbonz

Other developed countries with strict gun laws have annual gun deaths in the double digits, like 50 or less per year .... we have gun deaths in the five digit range, more than half of them suicides that likely would not occur if guns were not just so damned available.

Countries like Australia, England, Germany and Japan take gun violence seriously. Why don't we?

A reduction in gun homicides (which does not include suicides) to 9,000 is not good enough. If we reduced those deaths to 1% of the current level we would be on the right track.

So an AR-15 and a Shotgun is a gun of choice for this Girl, how stupid is that, She is guilty as can be.

sam, really there ya go showing how much you know my wife owns both of the above mentioned, she served her country for 5 years,and any woman out there can handle a ar-15

Nguyen's lawyer, Dave Palmiere, told the newspaper that Nguyen bought the weapons legally and that they had been stolen. He said Nguyen didn't recall whether she reported the guns stolen.

cough cough BULLSH*T

Zero mf sympathy for her, first question she should have asked is why he need her to buy the guns for him in the first place, so again Zero mf sympathy

bull@!$%#.. the cops failed to keep tabs on the psyco

As for the shooter, cops did their job years ago when they arrested him for murdering his grandmother with a freaking hammer, it wasn't the cops who let him go free, it was the court system, the liberal ideology that POS like Spengler can be rehabilitated and deserve a second chance of freedom.

You want a 100% guaranteed reduction in crimes like this, put down psycho criminals like Spengler the first time like the rabid animal he was. Now that would stop a lot of this, at least from all the repeat offenders we keep seeing in the these stories, criminals with 10+ felony assault convictions out on the street, now that stuff has to stop.

Good example of this are the thugs who beat a street performer to death in Seattle (Tuba Man), all got off with light sentences, now every single one has had further run ins with the law for assaults, and now one is on the run and wanted for murder at a club where some of the Seahawk players were. So letting these "poor troubled downtrodden youths" off with a wrist slap only taught them they can do as they please without concern for the consequences, great job all you libs who think that thugs should be coddled.

Hadn't he been out of prison for about 15 years without so much as a single brush with the law? Everyone wants to blame someone, mske it seem like someone somewhere should be able to predict every bad thing any person might do. Well, it can't be done. That's life. Somethimes things happen that can't be predicted or specifically prepared for.

driver's licenses neither arise from a constitutional right, and in fact there is no 'right' to have a driver's license. just not a comparison. having said that, most gun-related homicides are in homes where there are guns. i'm so tired of rhetoric like 'an un-armed person is not a citizen, he's a subject.' people who believe that sort of thing are nuts. guns are not a substitute for a phallus, and if you are insecure about the one you have, get over it. guns kill people.

@Crazy Steve-1996926

Trying to deflect. No I'm not. I did not bring up deliberate vs intentional death. I expanded on the idea. And I'm sorry but dead is dead. It does not matter how or why a person was killed. You say I am trying to bring emotion into the conversation. Well what the hell do you call the knee jerk reaction and non-stop bombardment by the public and the media over the death of a small number of people?(and no I am no making light of their deaths.) When you consider the number of gun owners and the number of guns in this gun the death rate is minimal. And just how do you so cavalierly discount abortion? Please explain to me what the difference is between somebody murdered by a firearm and one murdered by a physician. Unless you are morally bankrupt, you cannot. And your personal attacks on me and gun owners proves to me, as well as most others, that you cannot discuss anything on an adult level w/out stooping to name calling. The ultimate mark of a liberal and an elementary school child. I'll waste no more words or time on you. You are not worthy.

@don97524

Comparing the numbers of gun deaths in countries with relatively few if any guns, with the US, is like comparing the number of people killed by shark attack in the Sahara with the numbers killed in Australia. You also must take into consideration the societal differences between countries. Forgetting weapons for a minute, do you think that children in Japan where honor and respect are paramount are raised similarly to children here? Do you not think there is something to that?

And again, as I've asked in other posts, check on the violent crime rates in other countries and compare them to the US (on a per capita basis), you might be more than a little surprised. Start with Great Britain, where there is talk of outlawing kitchen knives, then move on to Brazil, and then pick and choose at your own pace. Report back with your findings.

In other words, it's not the guns, it's the people. Mass murders have gone on since the beginning of time. No amount of laws or gun bans will change that.

Xbonz

My point is, and I am surprised you have been unable to grasp it, that we should be a country with "relatively few if any guns." Instead we are boneheads who believe that owning guns is a critical element of "freedom." I, for one, would feel more "free" if my neighbors were not armed.

If the United States were one of those countries with "relatively few if any guns" we would be a country with relatively few gun deaths.

And, frankly, I am less concerned about the mass murders in this country than I am about the 9,000 or so firearm homicides and the 11,000 or so firearm suicides every year in this country.

Crazy steve, if someone deliberately drinks, then drives and causes a crash that kills someone, that is not an accident. Draining a shot glass or beer bottle in your pie hole is no "accident". People arrested for DWI should have their license suspended for a minimum of five years. There are at least the same number of people killed every day by intoxicated drivers as killed at Sandy Hook. I guess that makes the anti-gunners feel better though.

LittleGreenPuppet #1.29

Good to see that they are investigating where the felon got the guns and making arrests. Responsible gun owners should be happy to see these strawman purchases stopped because it shows that we can have the current laws work to help prevent ILLEGAL gun sales. That's the issue here not legal gun ownership by law abiding citizens or what kind of gun it is but ANY gun falling into the wrong hands.

You are right I'm happy to see this publicized.

I imagine the scenario: This is a typical situation where some extreme alpha male coerces a female, one that he may have stalked and frightened, into doing something for him that she wouldn't normally do. Or, he pretended to be "in love" with her, and oh, by the way, could she just do him one little favor? The entire problem with assault weapons is that safety is only as safe as the weakest link, in this case, somebody who could be coerced into doing somebody a "favor." This man was such a psychopath that she was named in his suicide note.

Sure she should have justice served, because that is what happens: do the crime, do the time.

But, at the same time, probation or not, anybody who has killed somebody should be on some kind of mental health watch for life, just as sexual predators are watched for life. It doesn't mean that the whole neighborhood needs the warnings that come with the sexual predator, but the police should know, and check those people out once in a while.

Of course, that kind of occasional supervision adds up, and that means more funding, and everybody always wants to cut funding and regulations.

The thing that's so amazing is the inability of the gun nuts to master logical thought as well as their perception that while standing on a huge pile of crap they think they have reached the high moral ground....

And your personal attacks on me and gun owners proves to me, as well as most others, that you cannot discuss anything on an adult level w/out stooping to name calling.

I wasn't attacking gun owners, just gun nuts which is obviously what you are. I know you can't understand the difference, but that's your problem. Using wrong or suspect statistics, muddying the waters with religious issues (abortion), inappropiate comparisons are all hallmarks of your 'logic'. Compare 'violent crime rates'? How about Homicide rates, which is the subject at hand? The US has the second worst rate among all first-world nations, only being beat out by Russia. We even get beat by such paragons of stability such as Palestine, Iran, and yes even Afganistan. Here's the link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#United_States

..if someone deliberately drinks, then drives and causes a crash that kills someone, that is not an accident.

Ace, there's another 'muddy' comparison. Tell me, how many drunk drivers have admitted to drinking so they could go out on the road and kill someone? For that matter, how many are charged with murder? Is it a display of poor judgement? Absolutely; but it falls a long ways short of being intent, and the law recognises it as such. And alcohol is only involved in roughly 1/3 of highway deaths; how many it actually causes may be lower. And using the NRAs own number of less that 1000 accidental shooting deaths a year, that means the remainder (90%+) are deliberate.

By the way, I am a gun owner, not a gun nut like you two.... and something needs to be done.

Alcohol and guns are products. Both are used to commit murder with. Both have accidental deaths associated with their use.

People using alcohol commit more murders and have more accidental deaths than those using guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/

bobyoung

Foolish statement. The fact that people die from alcohol or vehicles or obesity, or anything else for that matter, does not in any way suggest that we should not put enormous effort into reducing gun deaths. I don't understand why you consider that "People using alcohol commit more murders and have more accidental deaths than those using guns" has anything to do with a solution to the problem or is any indication that gun deaths are not serious and important.

People using alcohol commit more murders and have more accidental deaths than those using guns.

Another false and misleading statement to try to justify guns.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

Seeing how firearms are responsible for 2/3 of all homicides in the US, Guns commit the majority of murders. As to accidental deaths, keep in mind that while alcohol is a factor in all sorts of deaths, many of them are the users themselves so it's hardly the slaughter of innocents.

Scott asked: "Hadn't he been out of prison for about 15 years without so much as a single brush with the law? Everyone wants to blame someone, mske it seem like someone somewhere should be able to predict every bad thing any person might do. Well, it can't be done. That's life. Somethimes things happen that can't be predicted or specifically prepared for."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

My comment: Yes, Scott, that's right, and he'd been off probation for about 5 years, too. (No doubt, all the while, living a very compassionate and productive life, I suppose?) However, if he'd been sentenced to life without the possibility of parole after smashing his Grandmother's head in with a hammer, then we wouldn't have to sit out here and play junior psychic with him or other murderers; wondering what bad thing they might do next. By releasing him from prison, our justice system has answered that question FOR us in this case. Now we know the answer, had it been asked before they released him from jail:

"He'll kill 3 people in about 15 years."

I don't like that answer at all. They already had him locked up for murder and they should have kept him locked up for murder until the day he died... right where nobody would have ever have had to waste any time thinking about him (or what he might do) again.

@don97524:

I fully grasp your desire to do away with guns. It is plainly obvious. But why stop with guns? i want to do away with free speech. Too many people are driven to acts of violence by hate rhetoric. I want to do away with freedom from religion. If we all had only one religion there would be much less hate and violence. I want to do away with all motor vehicles which travel more than 5mph, those things are just too dangerous. And finally, I want the government to run every single aspect of our lives. It is time we do away with the entire Constitution and install a tyrant. We should have no freedoms and we should have no way to protect those freedoms from tyranny.

Now, do you get MY point?

@Crazy Steve-1996926:

Well I couldn't resist. Your ignorance is astounding. Anybody that does not agree with you is either a nut or beneath your moral level. What a joke. You want to compare homicide rates but conveniently have decide that abortion is now a"religious" issue. Maybe in your mind it is that. But not to millions of others who just believe murder is wrong. So my comparing firearm deaths with abortion IS a comparison of HOMICIDE. Apparently you are incapable of grasping even the simplest of facts.

Xbonz

You debate like a child. Rather than putting forth a reasoned argument you exaggerate each point in a feeble attempt to belittle any point that one of your "opponents" puts forth. No one takes you seriously.

@don97524:

And yet you've have still not disproved any point I've made. I exaggerate each point to make things more obvious to those who can't follow along. You make statements like "if there were less guns there would be less gun deaths". No kidding. I countered with the sharks in the Sahara to show the folly of your post. Make a legitimate, well reasoned objection and I will debate it. But statements such as these: "Foolish statement" in post 1.62 and "No one takes you seriously" post 1.67 are not worthy of honest thoughtful debate. By the way, have you personally taken a poll of everybody here in order to determine that no one takes me seriously, or are you just throwing it against the wall again?

@don97254:

Here's your reasoned argument. The ownership of guns is a RIGHT guaranteed by the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution. The same instrument that guarantees one or two other rights that may be of interest to you. When you allow the government to usurp those rights you set up a nasty slippery slope. The 4th Amendment is already under constant attack (see TSA, DHS, NDAA2013, etc), and now you want to give them more power over another right. Where will it end? Because of a minute percentage of people in this nation who will do harm to others you want to do away with or severely limit guns, and thereby punish 80+ million innocent gun owners. I'm not willing to give up my rights and you should not be so eager to give up yours, or anybody else's for that matter.

Now, as I've asked previously, please research violent crime rates in other nations and compare them to the US, as you are wont to do when it comes to gun violence. Start with the UK and then try Brazil. Let me know your findings.

Is that reasoned enough for you?

bonehead

I am not working on a term paper to submit to you. It is extremely clear to anyone who reads the garbage you post that no one could convince you that our American system of easy access to guns is a problem. You have absolutely no interest in any solution that restricts gun ownership, You are willfully ignorant and illogical.

@don97524

Ah yes, the intellect of the name caller. Have you graduated third grade yet? I couldn't care less about your desire to work on a term paper. You compare the United States to other nations in the world on ONE topic. Do you actually believe that access to guns is the only difference? Are you that foolish? Then why not compare us to Switzerland? Do these other nations have the drug problems we have? Do they have the gang problems we have? Do they have the mix of ethnicities and cultures that we have? You don't think culture comes in to play? Really? You think all of the countries you mention are superior in some respect to us? Why don't you move there? You are G-damn correct in your statement that I have absolutely NO interest in another "solution" that restricts gun ownership. Why? Because it does not work. It did not work with the previous "gun ban" nor will it work now. What part of that is so bloody hard for you to comprehend? When has banning anything ever worked? Prohibition? Drugs? Prostitution? Please Your Royal Intellect, tell us what you propose and then back it with facts as to how it will work. I'm willfully ignorant and illogical? Then prove me wrong in any one topic or example I bring up. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Actually I do think that access to guns AND laws that regulate responsibility for guns IS the key difference. Those who have guns in Switzerland really are part of a militia and the use of those guns is tightly restricted. The reason I say that you are willfully ignorant is that you pick and choose little bits of information to use in your argument, but fail to look at the whole picture. In that way you are exactly like the Christian right using the Old Testament to justify denying marriage rights to same sex couples while they ignore other parts of that same book.

Giving up gun rights worked in England. It worked in Australia. It worked in Japan. It worked in Germany. It worked in lots of other countries. There is my evidence. You choose to ignore it because there is nothing that can be taught to a man who chooses not to learn.

@don97524

I do not choose to ignore anything. You, however, fail to see the bigger picture. Our countries and societies are not the same. What works in one country will not work in another. Japanese culture is built on honor and respect. Is the same true here? The UK has the highest violent crime rate in the European Union. Has gun control helped with that? By the way, the latest from GB is the idea of banning kitchen knives. Guess banning firearms has made a huge difference, huh? Germans are known for their respect of authority. Have been for over a century. That is why their war machines of WWI & WWII were so successful. The people did what they were told. What has changed in their society? Doesn't seem like much along those lines, in my opinion.

So again, I ask you to provide a "solution" to gun control which will work, and back it with facts. Rather than trying to insult me or my position, prove me wrong.

As for your statement about Switzerland and gun control, here's a little something for you to chew on:

"Even though Switzerland has not been involved in an armed conflict since a standoff between Catholics and Protestants in 1847, the Swiss are very serious not only about their right to own weapons but also to carry them around in public. Because of this general acceptance and even pride in gun ownership, nobody bats an eye at the sight of a civilian riding a bus, bike or motorcycle to the shooting range, with a rifle slung across the shoulder."

Source: http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

@don97524

One thing I forgot, please show me where the citizens of the UK, Japan,and Germany were guaranteed a right to own guns. You remember, the right you say they "gave up".

The attention to guns lately is a rally cry for the idiots of this country..

And we "idiots" can rest our case. You should not own a gun. You can't even make a public post without demeaning those who hold a differing opinion by calling names like a child. No! No more guns for people like you!

We've had ENOUGH.

So libs want to release all these criminals back into society because its not their fault its societies, then they blame a gun when their retarded decisions cause a death. Blaming someone else has become the libby motto. Makes sense since you guys take after your comrade and chief obama.

She falsified info when buying the weapons, that alone is a felony, if one of mine got stolen I would sure as hell know if, when, and to what officer I reported it. Its called responsibility, if she had sold or given them to him and did a FFL transfer the sale would have been blocked and had it been approved she would have been absolved of any guilt for the transfer.

You are not likely to find a gun owner who would report that guns bought illegally were stolen.

Nguyen's lawyer, Dave Palmiere, told the newspaper that Nguyen bought the weapons legally and that they had been stolen.

So 'why' did she not report that they were stolen?

She couldn't remember if they were stolen or not.

She is lying!

Yikes! I had a gun stolen a few years back, and reported the robbery, including the gun, to the police. But I wonder if I was supposed to file a form with some government department?

That would be easy enough to confirm, if she DID report them stolen, there would be a police report, they will find it if she did. If she didn't report , there wouldn't be one and she will be charged. It's that simple!

I don't think the her attorney is likely to be mounting a successful defense.

I will state that a straw firearms purchase is one of the easiest felonies to commit, as all you do is write 'YES' in the box on BATFE Form 4473 when asked 'Are you the true purchaser of this firearm?'. Of course, it is also very easy to get caught when something like this happens and the guns are not in your possession.

Young women do make a lot of straw purchases for men who are prohibited from purchasing or possessing firearms. I know of a number of dealers who, through the years, noted a couple come in who were 'just looking'. The man points out a certain firearm to the woman, and they leave. A week or two later, the woman comes in on her own, with a freshly issued state Permit to Acquire Pistols and/or Revolvers, in her name, and demands to purchase the gun the man she was with pointed out on the previous visit. I know at least one of these dealers at first realized what was happening and tried to refuse the sale based on what he'd seen...only to get a call from someone claiming to be an attorney who was threatening to file a discrimination lawsuit against him for refusing to sell her the gun! Now, who knows who was really on the other end of the line, and I don't know how that whole thing resolved. My understanding is that a lot of the dealers ultimately went ahead with such sales, kept the records handy (including a photocopy of the purchaser's photo ID and purchase permit), and quietly passed along the information to one or more of their friends in law enforcement. One should keep in mind that smaller gun stores are most often run by a proprietor who has a lot of friends who are law enforcement officers! This generally is not as true for larger retailers with a sporting goods department, however, and someone should have noticed it's very unusual for a young woman to drop $1500 or so on a Bushmaster carbine on her own volition.

Years ago when I worked at a sporting goods counter, I was told that I had the right to refuse service to anyone. I most certainly did on several occasions, too! When a complaint was filed with my supervising manager, the manager would invariably tell the foiled customer, "You heard the man - GET LOST!". I can't imagine that whoever was supervising the sales clerk at the Gander Mountain where the carbine and shotgun were purchased wouldn't have backed the clerk up if he or she said, "Now, wait a minute here..." when she wanted to purchase those guns.

So you thing she is a angel or victim ? how sheet soul you have, you deserve live in the Heaven, How we cant cheat to teh sistem: I buy a gun for $300, me record is clean and resale to somebody us for $ 600. I made a profit of $ 300, grant and later I report to police "my gun was stolen !" buaaaaaaa...no consecuenses on the mayority of cases bacause the underground buyer erase the identification on the guns, can be traced..and why she buy a aomatic rifle and no a small pistol ? have no sense, put her in jail for many years and later DEPORTED, where she comen from..!

Newstart 2012. By reporting the gun stolen to the police, you did the right thing. Obtain a copy of the police report and keep it for your records.

When you filed a Police report ,you got a copy . Really not very difficult but if it was beyond your capabilities then you should not have a weapon in the first place

the nra slogan about responsible gun owners has a giant loophole. the moment you commit a crime, you fall out of the 'responsible' category by definition. it's the same kind of argument that if you enter the us illegally, you are a criminal. just another slogan which doesn't address any solution, and is not meant to.

I am not a "gun nut" or a "liberal", no labels here. However, I have an opinion. Most of the posts seem to be by individuals with some level of intelligence. Is there really anyone on here that believes that A) Current gun owners are going to "give up" the guns they currently own?

B) That criminals are going to rush to participate in a "buy back" program?

C) That law breakers are going to miraculously begin to abide by the law and not buy guns illegally (maybe if the pinky promise)?

D) That there are any gun control laws that would have prevented this or any other recent shooting?

Unless we can enforce the laws we already have, how are we planning to enforce new laws? In most areas there is a freeze on hiring new police officers due to economic cut backs. So assuming we can get new laws on the books, who will enforce them? This man was crazy and should have been locked up or put to death for his other crimes, but because we have free spirited, everyone is innocent liberals defending this garbage, chances are he was set free because he is crazy. Now he becomes our problem and the only way we have to defend ourselves is what? Throw a rock at him while dodging bullets?

This is really crazy! We are going more and more backwards every year. What happened to a person's right to defend them self? You can't win, if you bring a knife to a gun fight and right or wrong, today it is always a gun fight. No place is safe. You can't go to the movies, you can't go to you place of worship, you can't even drop you child off at school without feeling a little pang of "what if". And some of you think what, gun control is the answer?

If there had been 1 man in the theater that night with a gun how many lives could have been saved? Maybe the little girl? If there had been a police officer at the school how many children would have woke up Christmas morning? All of them because that crazy bastard would have never gone to the school or he would have been shot immediately. As long a criminals have guns, I'll have a gun. And since there is no one that can guarantee that ALL guns have been recycled,then it is what it is. If we expect to catch and keep the criminals we have to think like criminals, not act like them but think like them. They have no rules, no loyalty. What type of gun did Tim McVeigh use???? Oh, that's right , he didn't use a gun but was successfull in killing about 15 children. I have yet to see a ban on the use of U-haul vehicles or even a more strict rental agreement.

Where does it end?

You gotta fish where the fish are, and today the fish are everywhere not just in the shallow gun pool!

Per Reuters

When police traced the two guns to her, she initially said she had bought them for her personal protection, but said they had been stolen from her vehicle, according to the police account. Neither weapon had ever been reported stolen, however. She later admitted in text messages and a phone call to a Monroe County Sheriff's deputy that she had, in fact, bought them for Spengler, and he picked out both firearms, police records say.

If what Reuters is reporting true, she's guilty and should also be charged with accessory to murder. I'm happy to see this information going public. It just shows that a criminal who wants a gun will find a way to get a gun.

I would think more than manslaughter.

Felony Murder. She committed a Felony and it resulted in death.

Wow, you people are quite stupid. And in case you don't get who I'm talking about I mean the OP and the two mouth breathers who replied. All of you are jack @!$%# stupid yep.

@Big Trouble

Better to be a mouth breather than an a$$ talker.

Don't feed trolls.

Couldn't resist, it was to easy :)

Sign this petition to 'clarify' gun ownership requirements:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/create-28th-amendment-gun-ownership-privilege/tRJtD6L7

@davey-526272

NO chance in HELL. Not that I dont think some control is necessary, but I have NO intention of PISSING AWAY MY RIGHTS with some knee jerk petition that does not lay out very specific information. The coverage on this PETITION is far to broad and is SERIOUSLY LACKING IN SPECIFICS. YOU are looking to CHANGE THE BILL OF RIGHTS

A much better petition than the one posted by davey-526272 above, sign away people. I did

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-any-legislation-will-ban-assualt-weapons-semi-automatic-rifles-or-handguns-and-high-capacity/bjlkvNSf

Other good ones to sign

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/stop-crime-it-starts-funding-mental-health-facilities-instead-prisons/kbjDNhBV

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/build-federally-funded-mental-healthcare-system-united-states-offers-treatment-education-and/kb63nFrz

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/make-mental-health-national-emergency/DLwvxxzJ

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/keep-guns-america-no-weapons-ban/SK8RpjqB

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/end-gun-free-zones-and-we-people-demand-vote-citizens-protection-act-hr-2613/wYB29JCk

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/not-punish-tens-millions-law-abiding-gun-owners-ineffective-and-unconstitutional-assault-weapons/jq9HgTxd

Do you think that if your family was murdered by a hand gun killer, that you would still support guns?

murdered by a hand gun killer

How do you kill a hand gun?

Even if there were no persons injured or killed by the gun, she can be charged with violating business license laws. Several months ago a local city police department went around with a licensing agent from the city and inspected dozens of businesses for proper and complete licensing. Anyone in violation got a "ticket or summons" to appear in court. Some violations shut down businesses for a few weeks, others were minor and the business could stay open while they corrected the deficiency. Several businesses had no current licenses, some had only 1 of the permits needed to do business, and some were caught just a few days before expiration. I think only two businesses were caught doing anything further wrong. One served alcoholic beverages after the legal stop serving time. They served about 15 minutes after they should have stopped. The other I think was a package store selling alcohol several minutes early or late.

WallStFatCat as a private seller it is in your best interest to do a FFL transfer, case and point, it is for your own protection, now murder weapons have been traced back to her, see the reasoning.

when the buyer is a convicted fellon and you knowingly purchase weapons for them, then yes.

If this was a private gun seller, I have no sympathy for her. Background checks should be mandatory in any transaction involving guns. He would not have been able to buy these guns from an honest reputable dealer. Someone who supplies guns with no questions asked is as guilty as the perpetrator when they use the illegally obtained weapon to kill someone.

If the seller followed all the applicable laws regarding a gun sale, then his exposure to legal action against him would be very limited.

If this was a private gun seller, I have no sympathy for her

The only seller I see mentioned in the article is Gander Mountain, whose store at Henrietta, NY would have a Type 1 Federal Firearms License in order to retail firearms.

Precisely how the carbine and shotgun were transferred from the young woman to the killer is not clear. It is not stated whether she sold them, or he was paying her to be the straw purchaser, or whether they had some type of relationship and he was exerting undue pressure on her to be the straw purchaser, or what.

as a private seller it is in your best interest to do a FFL transfer, case and point, it is for your own protection

There is really nothing wrong with selling a firearm you own, as long as it is what the BATFE would recognize as 'an occasional sale'. In other words, you're not engaging in the business of selling firearms without a Federal Firearms License. If you own one or more firearms, you're not bound to take them to the grave with you. Sometimes it is easiest to just sell a gun to a dealer, and it can be the safest route to go. I would not want to advertise where I live to stranger who was looking to purchase a gun, because you have no idea who it is and if you own other firearms, this can be a real liability and security risk. If you sell a gun to someone you know, which I'll say is probably well over half of the private party sales that happen, no problem. Just be sure that you have no reason to suspect that the person should not have a firearm and do plan to draw up a sales contract, with a copy for both you, as the seller, and one for the customer. Employing common sense cannot be emphasized enough.

I believe it has been stated that the criminal miscreant was with this "woman" when she purchased the guns. It is my guess that he paidher cash for them and that she made a profit--which is why she did it.

the TiGor

You just quoted what I said like there was something wrong with it, and then basically stated the same thing, take measures to protect yourself. Going through a registered FFL holder would not give the buyer your address, and you would be a total idiot to bring a stranger to your home to sell a firearm. Meet at the FFL holders place of business, in my case it would be my gunsmith. He would have both parties info, if the buyer is not agreeable to this then move on. A bill of sale is nice, but having it registered by the BATF would give you the most protection. I am also aware that an occasional sale is fine, I just would not do it without protecting myself.

She is insanely funny...lol

"he didnt tell me he was using the guns to kill firefighters". haha women.

is her mamma what can espect ?

My thoughts exactly!

The article says she was linked to the guns in the note that Spengler left behind. Not that I believe her story, but that's why the claim is not outrageous (being set up by a dead man) as your comment implies.

He was a crappy enough person to take down people that pissed him off, whether he got the gun from her or not. People that didn't piss him off. We don't have all the facts from this news article. I'll wait for the trial.

gun frreaks? OK.

Responsible gun owners will be posting that, if proven to have supplied the weapons, this woman should do some serious hard time.

Do not even try to make sense of the situation we are in with guns. We have so many folks that are going to jump all over you for even suggesting there MIGHT be a problem. The very mention of restrictions just throws them into a temper tantrum and they start calling you names, inform you the government is coming to get them, and they have to protect themselves and thier family. The repeated shouting of the 2nd A is next. Heard it all over and over again, nothing new, just the same old arguement with a new killing.

grow up mountain lady.

ps. quit lying about being a mountain lady while you're at it.

That is an absolute fabrication of the facts. When does purchasing a fishing license require a DOJ and FBI check? Also, does it take 10 days to get your fishing license. If you are going to lie to try to make your point, let's at least do it with something substantial.

Mountainlady, I have no clue where you live but you can bet your butt that its a lot harder ( A LOT) to get a fun than a fishing license.

Nice try though.

How difficult it is to buy a gun differs from state to state. A fishing license where I live requires a social security number. On the other hand where I live, especially at gun shows, almost no information is required to buy a gun. Check the gun buying rules in all 50 states before you criticize. Also, Dave... I happen to live in the mountains and have done so for most of my life.

How about some truth based on facts that you researched personally Mountainlady, instead of just repeating what some other idiot told you?

Don't be bringing fishing license purchases into the debate. There are difficulties with getting commercial fishing licenses, as if 95% of the readers are planning on spending a season in the Bering Sea, but sport fishing licenses come easy, and even accommodate the handicapped, the aged, the economically disadvantaged, residents vs, non resident, and if non resident for short vacation periods. The state needs proof of residency in that state to issue a resident fishing license, because it's that state's resources which you are harvesting. But if you're a non resident of the state you should easily and readily for the most part be able to purchase a non resident sport fishing license. There are felony convictions for fish and game violations which would prohibit certain individuals from further pursuit of fish and game harvests...but if you're one of those individuals, you'll know it. You might be prohibited as a non resident from participating in a harvest restricted to state residents, such as Personal Use fisheries, where a resident sport fishing license is used for identification... but believe me, the excuse that fishing licenses are not available isn't going to cut it in the court house or with the enforcement officers who stop you. The mountain which you live on will be located between some state's boundary lines, and if it's located precisely on the boundary, there will be provisions about fishing the boarder waters, and what licenses apply.

moutainlady says:

How difficult it is to buy a gun differs from state to state. A fishing license where I live requires a social security number. On the other hand where I live, especially at gun shows, almost no information is required to buy a gun. Check the gun buying rules in all 50 states before you criticize. Also, Dave... I happen to live in the mountains and have done so for most of my life.

• #8.6 - Fri Dec 28, 2012 6:55 PM EST

mountainlady, thank you for coming back to reality when called on a blatantly wrong statement.

btw, in my state, gun purchases at gun shows are no different than in stores.

Regards.

p.s. if you ever read a book entitled "Appalachian Mountain Man", there is a house on the cover. that is the house my father spent many years, while growing up as an adolescent.

Regards

16 weeks in the Bahamas? That's not a vacation, that's a tax exile

tax fraud, tax evasion, thats the charges in the US. if there were aiding criminal homicide, and vehicular homicide, those would be in the bahamas.

you just failed at making your argument valid. nice try fluffy bunny

If you could prove you were out of the country and reported it stolen when you found out you would be just fine, however if you don't report it you leave yourself open to legal repercussions, acting responsibly is your choice, acting irresponsibly can have repercussions as she is finding out.

If she was in the Bahamas for 16 weeks, I'm sure she could get off with the "they were stolen" excuse. She wasn't. Your example really sucks.

Did you fall off your Humvee and hit your head very hard? I can see you have lost your ability to think clearly and that's sad.

Are you implying that most people can reasonably expect to not know for 16 weeks that their weapons have been stolen? Are you suggesting that you would leave firearms in a parked vehicle for four months? Leaving your firearms unattended in a vehicle for that long is irresponsible. Vehicles are stolen every day, so your scenario doesn't make sense. Are you suggesting that the thief used your vehicle to kill? As such, how could you be held accountable unless you gave him the keys and knew he wasn't licensed to drive?

Your attempt to excuse the conduct implied by the subject woman in this story has failed... She is a straw buyer who took the money and is indirectly responsible for the murders of three people...

What business did you have if it went belly up but you went to the Bahamas for 16 weeks?

And if your car was where you kept guns then yes, you probably deserve to get arrested for stupidity at the least.

Not bright enough to take them in the house and lock them down?

You deserve, because don't use a common sense for keep your guns in safer place like Uhaul storage or sorever, "somebody stole my gun" can be truth or can be a lie, only God know, but God don't come to the courts, is to messi...

Maybe if it had been your 19 year old son that had been murdered you would be less likely to invent excuses for a greedy straw buyer?

Why did you leave two assault weapons in an unsecured vehicle for 16 weeks? You slammed your head in the humvees door a few too many times

Because this witch is lying through her teeth...

Is the attorney game, "lie, lie, somebody can eat that.." we need a law to prosecuty attorneys like that for "obstruccion of justice"...

you are talking out of your a$$. i hate people like you that try and stir the pot. you totally have the words of the NRA twisted. but its ok. people like you enjoy instigating. have fun at it.

TONYWARVET: We need to take away all of the Ferrari's, Lamborgini's, Porsches, etc. because many owners are irresponsible and drive these super fast cars in a careless manner!! After all, we all know that speed KILLS!!!!!!!!!! You are about the dumbest poster I have seen here. Get a life and spend your time voting for Obummer and stay away from these forums where sensible people post their thoughts.................

Fortunately, there is the IGNORE click for Tonywarvet BS

calling our President Obummer is a sensible post? that makes you a sensible poster?

I think maybe you shouyldback away from the computer, not the other poster.

Just sayin'

Troll...

She had a Fruedian slip. She tried to tell a lie and accidentally admitted her guilt...

FACT

Tonywarvet; You are an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TONYWARVET

The more guns the more shootings,how difficult is that to comprehend? Too gun nuts that's very hardt o comprehend no doubt.

The number of persons owning a firearm today is greater both in numbers and percentage of population than in the past 30 plus years and yet the homicide, and all crime for that matter, rate is DOWN in that same time frame.

The more high powered assault type weapons,the ,more massacres too!

the NUMBER of mass killings AND number of victims has remained steady over the same 30 year period.. The instant news is what makes everyone more aware of each incident.

tonygaybarvet:

Take a look at the Chicago murder rate, you're a moron.

R257, would you apologize for calling her a Bitch if it isn't true? Just wondering . . . Sounds a lot like guilty until proven innocent.

"stolen for her trink car ?" is the hard palces for stolen something, is more easy stolen from the back seats or inside home, but why buy a gun if she don't need ? for long time she don't report any stolen gun, don't repor because was NEVER STOLEN !

Sorry, Minchie, but you are dead wrong. The laws that prevent convicted felons from owning, possesing or handling firearms exist for a purpose. She intentionally conspired with him to circumvent the restrictions on his ownership of firearms. She is responsible for this slaughter. He obtained those weapons with her direct involvement. It wasn't accidental or a technicality. She needs to go to jail for a very long stretch...

Minchie,I agree with you on this one.

I don't disagree at all...and she broke those laws and should be prosecuted for it. But unless it can be proven that she did it with the intent to kill or knowledge of his intent to kill, I still don't see how she is responsible for the shootings enough to be prosecuted for them, when the person who should stand up and take responsibility can't because he removed himself from the equation...and a little too late by the looks of it.

Minchie she bought weapons for a felon which makes her an accessory prior to the fact. As an accessory she is responsible for all future actions brought on by her actions. She will be charged with 3 murders. the 2 Firemen and the suicide of the gunman. She facilitated his illegal actions by providing him with the means to do what he did. Does your State have the death penalty? If so 3 murders may qualify for special succumb stances.

Sorry I missed spelled circumstances. Spell check doesn't always work as intended.

i actually agree with you on this. But we cant look at all gun owners as the enemy. Mine are for sport shooting and home defense period. Responsility is the important think. Not once can you trust anyone with something that can get you and oters in a lot of trouble. I see this being an example of what should happen to people when they fail to think. She should face the music that is for sure.

All gun owners are not the problem. This greedy little *itch cost two firefighters their lives and cannot escape her complicity by claiming to forget if she reported her firearms stolen...

i will also agree there should be, and lets make it fair all the people involved in the fast and furious gun running program should all be indited

Surfin Bird,Yours is the best post by far.

Agree totally!

Tony, didn't you read the article? The woman purchased the guns in the shooter's stead. That's not only already illegal and the law is supposed to prevent such purchases and transfers from happening. The NRA not only doesn't oppose such laws, they've supported them. Which just goes to show you how useless the law is, no matter who supports it. Laws do not prevent crimes because criminals, by definition, commit crimes. The law only serves to punish after the fact.

What do you want, a complete ban on guns? Like Prohibition and the war on drugs? Oh, yeah, those didn't work either.

so your solution is seat in your but and crying ? is all ?

Tonywarvet, you are a truly worthless troll. What's more, I seriously doubt that you ever served a day in the military, turd breath.

For TRUE irony, TONY, you have to realize that every time something like this happens, and all you lemmings who rely on the sweet government for your own protection and security, start making noises about limiting access to guns, you drive gun sales through the ROOF!

People who normally wouldn't buy a gun panic and go purchase whatever's on the shelves so they can have one "before they're all gone". Now, people with no training, no interest, and no background in firearm use or safety have a weapon that they don't know how to use or secure in their homes. Because the little "gun grabber" folks like yourself drove them to a panic purchase.

Saw the same thing after the DC Sniper summer. You couldn't buy a Bushmaster AR-15 anywhere in the country for under $2000.00 that fall or winter (it's worth about $500.00). So thanks, clownshoes, for growing gun ownership among the segment of Americans who really probably shouldn't be owning or storing guns.

Well done!

don't joke...it worked for Casey Anthony!

ZING!