uhhhhh okayyyyyy,, you make no sense. Charles DJ, what does a armed guard have in comparing the death of "thugs" as you put it with 20 innocent children.

You havent made a logical point at all.

I can see train people but just anyone wonder how many kids would end up dead then if there was a shoot out

Way to go all you people who are doig something to protect our children. I bet you never have a guard use his weapon. I would put my money on the fact that as soon as these sicko's know theirs armed guards in he school,they will go to ne that don't have them. The best example I can give you hard heads out there is the theater shooting in CO. Their are i think 7 other theaters in te same radius to the killer as the one he chose. He picked the one he did because it was the only one that had a sign saying no guns. The other shootings are the same GUN FREE ZONES.WAKE UP people and lets stop these senceless killings of our children. You cannot ban enough guns n this world to stop yhese sick people.

Just great. Now this nra right wing extremist is putting the armed terrorists right inside the schools??? Putting a trigger happy george zimmerman in each school to shoot any kid wearing a hoodie and eating skittles/iced tea that they think may be a threat is a good idea????? Have you lunatics lost your effin minds. Not in my kids school - ever. You can go play cops and robbers in your own kids schools with a bunch of nra assault rifle terrorists but stay out of my town you idiots. Wow, 2014 can't come soon enough for the rational thinking majority of Americans to get rid of these delusional crazies.......................once and for all.

Less than if only the bad guy had a gun.

Received this satirical email from my friend in Eau Claire, Wisconsin, majoring in Law:

"An arms race on the streets, is on the rise. It's rocket launchers now ...or haven't you heard? Buyback programs are netting some heavy personal munitions. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57561115-504083/l.a-gun-buyback-collects-2-rocket-launchers-75-assault-weapons/ The gun nuts must be keeping the more powerful weapons for themselves, for future use, you know, home-made bombs, C4, grenades, chemical weapons, biological agents, 50-cal BFG's, napalm throwers, RPG's, rapid-fire mortar guns. I'm sure they'll rationalize how they imagine the 2nd Amendment protects their right to bear surface-to-surface missiles, as well. So the perps arm themselves with Rambo machine guns and concussion grenades. So what will armed teachers counter that threat with? Will they trash entire school campuses in the ensuing chaos of a firefight and end up with friendly fire on all sides of the smoke, with screaming, and raging flames engulfing classrooms? And only a fool would bring a 50 cal. to a pony nuke fight. In that case ...who wins?"

@bill36

So you really think that the gunman chose that theater because they had a sign up not allowing guns? I expect you still believe in the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus. First you’re assuming he was sane and rational enough to notice the sign and compare it to the other theaters. If he actually was rational he would realize that it’s unlikely the businesses’ sign would dissuade patrons from bringing weapons to that theater anyhow. Nor would no sign encourage people to bring weapons to any of the other theaters. Most likely the chances of having a patron with a gun in any of them were probably low regardless of any sign. Besides would it make it any better if he choose another theater or school anyhow?

Personally I think bringing in armed guards or volunteers to most schools is a bad idea. It makes a statement that we are going to live in fear and that fear will control us. We make sure that every student learns that message.

Next I question how effective volunteers would be. I don’t assume volunteer guards would have changed the result in Newtown. If Lanza went into the school while armed volunteers were present would they have posed any difficulty to him? He was a practiced, prepared gunman armed with semi-automatic rifle and pistols. His actions occurred in very few minutes and gave precious little time to react. When veteran troops meet raw troops in battle almost always the veteran troops easily win the day. Armies would not even allow raw troops to go into battle that way unless the war was new to them or the army was desperate.

So tell me how do you expect volunteers, after 6 hours of training with simulated guns, to react? How a year later, and having become complacent, will volunteers react to the sound of gunfire? How will volunteers stop a gunman that has more firepower, is better prepared and is more experienced than they are?

My point is don't assume that solution 'X' will resolve problem 'Y'. Look at the problem and come up with a reasoned solution for it. Or decide that there isn't a reasonable solution. That is an acceptable option to.

Thank god that POS isn't in my state

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

Hey G-man whatever, It is time to lock and load dude. The Posse is going make this once again a safe place for decent people to live. Right now it is like the old west. the slime comes into our schhols hurt our kids, rape our women and cook our dogs. The good guys are going to get armed once again like in the old days and rid ourselves of this pond scum. Then we will take their remains out to the garbage dump and burn them like the POS like they really are. Then put you wacked out left wing liberal ideas when the sun aint shining.

In 1987 the British government banned semiautomatic rifles and brought shotguns—the last type of firearm that could be purchased with a simple show of fitness—under controls similar to those in place for pistols and rifles. Magazines were limited to two shells with a third in the chamber.

Later, a media frenzy coupled with an emotional campaign by parents of Dunblane resulted in the Firearms Act of 1998, which instituted a nearly complete ban on handguns. Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison.

The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time. Moreover, another massacre occurred in June 2010. Derrick Bird, a taxi driver in Cumbria, shot his brother and a colleague then drove off through rural villages killing 12 people and injuring 11 more before killing himself.

In Australia, a study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides "continued a modest decline" since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was "relatively small," with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.according to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun.

Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.

What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems. In a Dec.18, op-ed, "Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown" David Kopel presents data showing that random mass shootings have increased dramatically since the 1980s, and goes on to posit the possible reasons. One possibility that has been overlooked is that the '80s saw the introduction of violent real-time computer games. Historically, soldiers new to combat incurred a much higher casualty rate than combat-hardened men. Starting in the '80s, military trainers discovered that raw recruits exposed to such newly invented games were much more willing to shoot at humans than their predecessors, and as a result incurred far fewer casualties. The inference to be made here is that the gaming experience reduces the heretofore reluctance to shoot another human being, and thereby increases the shooters' survival rate.

It would be instructive to investigate just how many of the mass murderers were computer-game enthusiasts, for they are surely numb to the killing they enjoy.

When I heard all volunter force I wished I lived in Arizona so I could be first in line. Why not look for retired military personel to patrol the schools of our nation. Being a retired USMC Viet Nam veteran Im sure many of my brothers would be happy to donate thier time. In Isrial all teachers are required to carry a weapon ....No school shootings since 1974.... Lets open our eyes

Gun Violence -- Let's Shift the Odds in Favor of the Good Guys!

Posted by Larry Elder on 12/20/2012 at 1:46 PM

The unimaginable horror of Sandy Hook jumpstarts another “national conversation” about firearm violence. President Barack Obama, promising “meaningful action,” said: “We will have to change….We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end.”

Let’s examine four of the “commonsense” measures frequently proposed by “gun control advocates”:

One, closing the “gun show loophole.” What gun show loophole? Restricted from selling at guns shows prior to 1986, a licensed dealer today requires a background check whether he sells guns at a store, a gun show or the back of his SUV.

Two, banning “high-capacity” magazines. One of the firearms used by Adam Lanza was a Bushmaster .223, with a magazine that can carry as many as 30 rounds. Would there have been less carnage had he been limited to a firearm with low-capacity magazines? What is the appropriate amount of firepower? Clips with 10 rounds? Five rounds? If the idea is to reduce the lethality of the guns, what does this do to reduce the lethality of the shooter’s intent?

The deadliest school massacre on American soil appears to have occurred in Chicago in 1958. A student set fire to the school, killing 92 students and three nuns. And in 1927, in Michigan, a former member of the school board set bombs at three schools, killing 45 (mostly second- to sixth-graders), including the bomber.

The Columbine tragedy could have been worse. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold set bombs throughout the school, but only one partially detonated, doing little damage. But had the bombs gone off as intended, hundreds could have been killed.

Three, reinstating the so-called “assault weapons” ban. An “assault rifle” is one where puling the trigger unleashes a volley of bullets, like a Tommy gun or AK-47. Since 1934, these firearms require licensing and registration. And in 1986, these weapons were banned from civilian sale. These laws remain in effect. The “assault weapons” ban did not restrict fully automatic weapons. Again, they were already under strict guidelines.

What exactly did this ban do? It outlawed certain weapons based on cosmetic features, many of which have nothing to do with the firepower or lethality. For example, the ban defined as an “assault weapon” a firearm with three or more of the following features: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor; a muzzle capable of launching a grenade; and a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. It outlawed the manufacturing of 18 specific models of semi-automatic weapons.

The Bushmaster .223 was not one of the outlawed weapons.

The ban, enacted in 1994, expired 10 years later. What has been the result? Nothing. Crime was unaffected. The reason is simple. Assault-style rifles (the kind banned by the law) are rarely used in crime. Less than 1 percent of weapons used in crimes are fully automatic rifles (illegal to buy for nearly 30 years). An estimated 1 to 2 percent of firearms used in crime are assault-style rifles, like the one used in Newtown.

Four, requiring a mental health test to prevent the “mentally ill” from purchasing a firearm. The goal is to predict who will use a firearm in an unlawful way. But how to define mental illness? Is it depression? Abraham Lincoln supposedly suffered from depression or melancholia. Would the 16^th president be denied the right to purchase a firearm? Do you forbid someone from purchasing a firearm if he or she is in therapy? Should a psychiatrist be required to inform the police when a client expresses anger, hatred or feelings of revenge?

Apart from the Second Amendment, how many other amendments to the Constitution will have been violated by denying someone the right to purchase a firearm because he is predicted to use the gun illegally -- based on a psych test.

So what can be done?

We can harden the target to make it more likely that the shooter will encounter resistance. We can re-examine the soundness of “gun-free” zones like schools and malls. By law and policy, these are places where bad guys know there are no guns.

Rampage school shootings in Pearl, Miss., Edinboro, Pa., and in Grundy, Va., have been stopped or minimized by citizens with legal weapons. More recently, it appears that a concealed carry weapon (CCW) holder minimized the damage that a shooter sought to inflict at the Clackamas Mall near Portland, Ore.

Nick Meli, who has a CCW permit and was armed, positioned himself near the mall shooter. Meli did not shoot, but feels he stopped what could have been greater carnage: “I'm not beating myself up ‘cause I didn't shoot him. I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

Americans, according to criminologist Gary Kleck, use guns 2.5 million times each year for self-defense, usually just brandishing the weapon. (The attacker is wounded in less than 8 percent of self-defense cases.) Of the 2.5 million, 400,000 claim that but for their gun they would have been dead. If we’re serious about “doing something,” we might consider shifting the odds in favor of the good guys.

We are still awaiting the George Zimmerman (Neighborhood Watch "Volunteer" - Gunman)... supposedly - he shot an erstwhile suspicious person, who he suspected of some crime, none reported!. - the root crime - was, he looked looked he didn't belong?

In his zeal to be the next vigilante "Hero" ... he shot an unarmed teen; after following him to the point that it became physical. no weapons were found, no crime was reported by anyone. the death was basically "by misadventure" or suspicion.

A case where the "Protector" killed akid walking, then running from someone he didn't know, in a place he was unfamiliar with, having moved their one a week or so prior to his being killed.

Can we trust civilians to be correct 100% of the time, when trained, veteran,, real police officers ... in the heat of the moment... are killing unarmed citizens at an alarming rate and the deaths were/are judged as being "with-in acceptable police procedure or guide lines"? Didn't the Minute Men, (volunteer) sheriffs posse, Militia guarding the border end up killing a number undocumented aliens under very suspicious circumstances .. in the same state? Seems more like an excuse for bored, patriots who can't go fishing hunting - wanting an excuse to get a way from the wife, kids or Honey-Do lists?

Are you really ready for guys who don't have a 9 - 5 job - playing as armed cops... at your kids school. these guy are rushing to hang out around kids, for free - but don't have a paying "Day Job"?

I jus hope the Bad guys will be wearing - all black clothes, Hoods pulled over their heads and Black or Mexican... so the good guys can Identify who's who...

Somebody needs to reel in this dangerous moron Arpaio. It sure as hell won't be the governor, who's just as whacked as Arpaio. Who elected these racists anyway? I guess the god-awful heat isn't the only reason to stay the hell away from Arizona.

KC, 853 we need men out there like Sheriff Arpaio. Racist you say? You are a fool...a real fool. Your president have a better idea, how about his deranged VP? Losers like you are why we are in such trouble.

You can't have a reasoned discussion with the liberal zombies who lurk on these sights. Common sense solutions which dont infringe on the rights of law abiding citizens are inconceivable to them. They would rather have a world where everything in life is directed by the government.

Its not about protecting innocents or the righs which the founders of this great country saw as cornerstones of freedom, its about lowering everyone to the lowest common denominator with a huge government to tell us what and when to do.... its fear that someone may be more powerful than them.

Let me stop here. I can get just as irrational when dealing with these liberal drones.

Oh yeah, before I forget. Te NRA is a group consisting of citizens of this country. You may thing its some mysterious organization looking to flood the world with guns, but its purpose is just as valid as the NAACP, etc.

aguila, you are a simple minded dupe if you believe the NRA primarily is protecting the right of people to buy firearms. Advancing the right of corporations to sell guns and sell them at enormous profits is the mission of the NRA.

These corporations have innocent blood on their hands. And now everyone knows it.

Harold, I agree it sounds like an idea worth trying! I hope for all our sakes it does work and doesn't backfire. Hopefully these "volunteers" are well trained, as stated in the article, and are not emotionally driven by recent events to be too trigger happy. That said, best of luck AZ! You might have started something.

If My home was in Arizona, I'd be selling it In absentia.

Here is the thing. First of all, I would hazard a guess that a large percentage of these "volunteers" are wannabe cops who, for some real reason, were not acceptable as candidates for the job. Second, research would support that the presence of weapons generally increases the escalation of violence in a heated situation. Also, don't you think the presence of these individuals would attract more aggressors? I also think it would act as a catalyst for students who are already disturbed and have violent tendencies. Finally, what about the kid who gets shot because he reached for his student ID but the volunteer thought he was going for a weapon and shoots him? I can see all sorts of bad outcomes here. As an educator, I for one will refuse to work in a school that does this (and I live in Arizona) and as a parent, I will not allow my child to attend a school that does this.

RMLK... I bet most of these volunteers are wannabe cops, just like George Zimmerman. That doesn't automatically disqualify this idea as quackery.

What if the weapon is secured and not on the volunteer's body? What if the policy dictates that the only time the weapon can be removed is when a gunman has been noticed or shots have been fired? That takes away many of the dangerous scenarios you brought up.

You're an educator and your opinion is very valid. I'm a parent of an elementary school student. While I don't love the idea of an armed guard walking the halls with a holstered weapon, I do like the idea of a secured weapon at the school with a volunteer who has a 100 hours of training on hand to disable a gunman.

actually the Maricopa Sheriff Posse is made up of very qualified and trained volunteers, they have a mounted unit, search & rescue & aviation unit of their own. Many of them are retired officers and most have more training than regular officers. It is one of the largest reserve units in the United States.

Harrold,

the legal definition of any object used as a weapon in a crime. It could be the butter knife on your kitchen table, and yes plastic can work too!

I think you understand what even the NRA understands. Most of these types of crime end when the police move in with guns. With no authority with a gun present and the areas being declared gun free, they schools will be left wide open for some lost soul to take out as many possible.

Harold,

I think your changing, your obviously not a diehard Liberal, because a die hard will not understand that weapons are not the issue, its the wacko using them. Assult weapons are going to be there wether or not you put an all out ban or not, its called the "blackmarket".

There was an attempt again on a movie theater showing the "Hobbit", but this time the wacko was shot in his tracks by a........ ARMED GUARD.

Though we will never be able to control some wack case from killing people all of the time, we can atleast put messures in place to deter them or kill them before they can plot to kill.

I would feel better about an armed guard in the school then no armed guard. I probably didn't think that way a month ago. Evolve or become extinct....

Have to agree with Harrold here, to go one further we need to educate our children On Guns and their obvious uses. What better way than with Trained individuals. Although this should be gone over in the Home well before it reaches Schools. Teach your kids that A gun is made for one purpose and one purpose only . to Shoot with the hope of killing. It is a goal specific tool. Weather it be for hunting or Military it is meant to Kill. ( and no the target wont be appearing on a new show next week)

Bucket: and we're very happy you are NOT an AZ resident... stay away... it's too dangerous for you!

Harold... ASSAULT WEAPONS IS A GENERAL TERM!! By definition, a bat and hammer are classified as assault weapons, when used to "assault" another person.

The media has tried to twist the facts. Take the shooting in Conneticut, and how they really botched the facts... like the .223 bushmaster never left the trunk of the car... Yet the Coroner was quoted as saying the damage was "from a rifle"...

Turns out he was misquoted... especially since it was discovered days later that the assailant had only 4 pistols on him. All pistols emplyed by most Police Officers...

So if they are "assault" weapons, then why are the Police using them?

Just FYI, automatic weapons have been banned since the 1930's. Still confiscated from criminals daily. Weapons like M-16, AK-47, Uzi's, submachine guns, mini-guns... all of them... guess banning works so well that ONLY CRIMINALS can get them.

But wait, how did they get them? They aren't legal to sell in the USA? Oh yeah.... blackmarket... Mexico, South America...

Wierd, drugs have been illegal, too... and yet... we have a drug problem in the USA? Go figure...

Harold: I think it's a bad precedent. There's a portion of the population who believes we should arm everyone and somehow, that will lead to less gun deaths.

I don't want to live in such a violent world. One where killing is so easy and one bad argument ends in tragedy. That's not a civil society. There's too many ignorant jerks out there and I don't want safety at my mall or my kids' schools to come down to who's faster on the draw.

There's a reason they banned guns in Tombstone.

Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown

There were 18 random mass shootings in the 1980s, 54 in the 1990s, and 87 in the 2000s.

By DAVID KOPEL

Has the rate of random mass shootings in the United States increased? Over the past 30 years, the answer is definitely yes. It is also true that the total U.S. homicide rate has fallen by over half since 1980, and the gun homicide rate has fallen along with it. Today, Americans are safer from violent crime, including gun homicide, than they have been at any time since the mid-1960s.

Mass shootings, defined as four or more fatalities, fluctuate from year to year, but over the past 30 years there has been no long-term increase or decrease. But "random" mass shootings, such as the horrific crimes last Friday in Newtown, Conn., have increased.

Alan Lankford of the University of Alabama analyzed data from a recent New York Police Department study of "active shooters"—criminals who attempted to murder people in a confined area, where there are lots of people, and who chose at least some victims randomly. Counting only the incidents with at least two casualties, there were 179 such crimes between 1966 and 2010. In the 1980s, there were 18. In the 1990s, there were 54. In the 2000s, there were 87.

If you count only such crimes in which five or more victims were killed, there were six in the 1980s and 19 in the 2000s.

Why the increase? It cannot be because gun-control laws have become more lax. Before the 1968 Gun Control Act, there were almost no federal gun-control laws. The exception was the National Firearms Act of 1934, which set up an extremely severe registration and tax system for automatic weapons and has remained in force for 78 years.

Nor are magazines holding more than 10 rounds something new. They were invented decades ago and have long been standard for many handguns. Police officers carry them for the same reason that civilians do: Especially if a person is attacked by multiple assailants, there is no guarantee that a 10-round magazine will end the assault.

The 1980s were much worse than today in terms of overall violent crime, including gun homicide, but they were much better than today in terms of mass random shootings. The difference wasn't that the 1980s had tougher controls on so-called "assault weapons." No assault weapons law existed in the U.S. until California passed a ban in 1989.

Connecticut followed in 1993. None of the guns that the Newtown murderer used was an assault weapon under Connecticut law. This illustrates the uselessness of bans on so-called assault weapons, since those bans concentrate on guns' cosmetics, such as whether the gun has a bayonet lug, rather than their function.

What some people call "assault weapons" function like every other normal firearm—they fire only one bullet each time the trigger is pressed. Unlike automatics (machine guns), they do not fire continuously as long as the trigger is held. They are "semi-automatic" because they eject the empty shell case and load the next round into the firing chamber.

Today in America, most handguns are semi-automatics, as are many long guns, including the best-selling rifle today, the AR-15, the model used in the Newtown shooting. Some of these guns look like machine guns, but they do not function like machine guns.

Back in the mid-1960s, in most states, an adult could walk into a store and buy an AR-15 rifle, no questions asked. Today, firearms are the most heavily regulated consumer product in the United States. If someone wants to purchase an AR-15 or any other firearm, the store must first get permission for the sale from the FBI or its state counterpart. Permission is denied if the buyer is in one of nine categories of "prohibited persons," including felons, domestic-violence misdemeanants, and persons who have been adjudicated mentally ill or alcoholic.

Since gun controls today are far stricter than at the time when "active shooters" were rare, what can account for the increase in these shootings? One plausible answer is the media. Cable TV in the 1990s, and the Internet today, greatly magnify the instant celebrity that a mass killer can achieve. We know that many would-be mass killers obsessively study their predecessors.

Loren Coleman's 2004 book "The Copycat Effect: How the Media and Popular Culture Trigger the Mayhem in Tomorrow's Headlines" shows that the copycat effect is as old as the media itself. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's 1774 classic "The Sorrows of Young Werther" triggered a spate of copycat suicides all over Europe. But today the velocity and pervasiveness of the media make the problem much worse.

A second explanation is the deinstitutionalization of the violently mentally ill. A 2000 New York Times study of 100 rampage murderers found that 47 were mentally ill. In the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry Law (2008), Jason C. Matejkowski and his co-authors reported that 16% of state prisoners who had perpetrated murders were mentally ill.

In the mid-1960s, many of the killings would have been prevented because the severely mentally ill would have been confined and cared for in a state institution. But today, while government at most every level has bloated over the past half-century, mental-health treatment has been decimated. According to a study released in July by the Treatment Advocacy Center, the number of state hospital beds in America per capita has plummeted to 1850 levels, or 14.1 beds per 100,000 people.

Moreover, a 2011 paper by Steven P. Segal at the University of California, Berkeley, "Civil Commitment Law, Mental Health Services, and U.S. Homicide Rates," found that a third of the state-to-state variation in homicide rates was attributable to the strength or weakness of involuntary civil-commitment laws.

Finally, it must be acknowledged that many of these attacks today unfortunately take place in pretend "gun-free zones," such as schools, movie theaters and shopping malls. According to Ron Borsch's study for the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, active shooters are different from the gangsters and other street toughs whom a police officer might engage in a gunfight. They are predominantly weaklings and cowards who crumble easily as soon as an armed person shows up.

The problem is that by the time the police arrive, lots of people are already dead. So when armed citizens are on the scene, many lives are saved. The media rarely mention the mass murders that were thwarted by armed citizens at the Shoney's Restaurant in Anniston, Ala. (1991), the high school in Pearl, Miss. (1997), the middle-school dance in Edinboro, Penn. (1998), and the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. (2007), among others.

At the Clackamas Mall in Oregon last week, an active shooter murdered two people and then saw that a shopper, who had a handgun carry permit, had drawn a gun and was aiming at him. The murderer's next shot was to kill himself.

Real gun-free zones are a wonderful idea, but they are only real if they are created by metal detectors backed up by armed guards. Pretend gun-free zones, where law-abiding adults (who pass a fingerprint-based background check and a safety training class) are still disarmed, are magnets for evildoers who know they will be able to murder at will with little threat of being fired upon.

People who are serious about preventing the next Newtown should embrace much greater funding for mental health, strong laws for civil commitment of the violently mentally ill—and stop kidding themselves that pretend gun-free zones will stop killers

As far as being a liberal (however you define that) well yes, I probably am, and no, I am not... so you can take this response as you wish. But here a few reasons why you are mistaken on this issue.

First, I highly doubt volunteers with only 100 hours of training would be competant with a gun. It takes more than just knowing how to pull a trigger and hit a paper target. If you want to arm them with stun grenades, I might be a little more confident in their ability to stop someone. Second, passing a background check is a good first step, but if you look at the history of people with intensive background checks, you'll find that there are a lot of failures (check out CIA, FBI, DOE for a multitude of bad actors with clearances). And clearances are very expensive. Third, I suspect that the pool of applicants will include a large number of vigilantes, pschopaths of various persuasions, and the generally incompetent. Just one nutcase slipping into a school as the armed guard would be an expensive disaster. Fourth, your assumption that it would protect kids at schools is suspect. It might be correct, but it might also be dead wrong. Are you willing to conduct a large scale social experiment using kids?

Look, I love my guns, and I know how to use them. I grew up around gunowners, and I like most of them, but I wouldn't trust most of them as school guards, and a good percentage of them are hotheads or irrational people who shouldn't be armed at all. And they would pass a background check.

Harold of the rocks...You are getting it..I almost fainted when you said you were a liberal..:O)

Comparing this posse with George Zimmerman is just not right...Zimmerman protected his/self

and until you all FINALLY realize this, there is no talking to you...Whats that about a deaf ear?

FYI - It seems odd that many articles claim the AR-15 is the culprit that killed many children that fateful day. This rifle is consistently being blamed for this attack, this however in not the truth. Two pistols, a Glock and a Sig Saurer were only used by the murderer, the AR-15 was found in the parking lot, in the backseat of the car and was never fired. It seems that real facts are important when fighting an arbitrary war of propaganda...

Establish a foyer within each school that is equiped with a screen to detect weapons - much like a screen that is used for entry to a court. If a person wishing entry sets off an alarm -- they don't get entry -- period -- right or wrong -- if an alarm goes off -- that person iis left and locked in the foyer, not admitted, and the police are called. Whether the alarm is as as result of a belt buckle, or whatever, doesn't matter, police are called.

Sidwell Friends School, where the DC Elite's children go to school, including the Obama girls, has 9 armed guards on duty all day long. The left doesn't like armed guards in schools unless it's their own schools.

https://www.sidwell.edu/directories/index.aspx?FirstName=&LastName=&DepartmentTypeID=78&DivisionID=&sortBy=LastName&LinkID=&DirectoryModuleID=341&pageaction=VPFaculty

Ohhhh, would that not be because the Obama girls and children of foreign diplomats are at the school?

Yes and just because they're the Obama girls and rich kids doesnt mean they are more important than any other child in this country. Every child in every school deserves to have a safe place to attend school no matter what their social status.

Ephren TinocoVIA FACEBOOKOhhhh, would that not be because the Obama girls and children of foreign diplomats are at the school?

Ephren...Thanks for making my point for me.

Harold, in 1957, the National Guard protected students who were threatened with violence at Little Rock, Arkansas. The threats were real and obvious and endorsed by the Governor of Arkansas. The big difference with this proposal is that the threats are not obvious and mostly hypothetical. People make bomb threats at school but no one is proposing on site bomb detectors or sweepers in schools. The proposal is to arm based on what "might" happen, rather than what is likely to happen, based on credible information, as was made clear at Little Rock if the National Guard did not intervene. Gang prevalant communities with credible threats from gangmembers, yes. If the argument is there are too many Adam Lanza's out their with credible threats, than I would agree to it, but that hasn't been demonstrated to me yet.

Let me throw a rhetorical your way Harold, Suppose that volunteer with 100 hours of training and fully gun qualified is the atheist, creationist, pro-abortion, socialist Obama lover, part-time militia separatist, holocaust denier, Civil War re-enactor for the wrong side. Why would someone want their child to be in the company of an armed person they are socially at odds with? I remember some schools whose parents mandated that their children not listen to Barack Obama's speech, and the schools granted those requests. Trust requires more than gun training I submit.

In 1987 the British government banned semiautomatic rifles and brought shotguns—the last type of firearm that could be purchased with a simple show of fitness—under controls similar to those in place for pistols and rifles. Magazines were limited to two shells with a third in the chamber.

Later, a media frenzy coupled with an emotional campaign by parents of Dunblane resulted in the Firearms Act of 1998, which instituted a nearly complete ban on handguns. Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison.

The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time. Moreover, another massacre occurred in June 2010. Derrick Bird, a taxi driver in Cumbria, shot his brother and a colleague then drove off through rural villages killing 12 people and injuring 11 more before killing himself.

In Australia, a study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides "continued a modest decline" since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was "relatively small," with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.according to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun.

Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.

What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems.

In a Dec.18, op-ed, "Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown" David Kopel presents data showing that random mass shootings have increased dramatically since the 1980s, and goes on to posit the possible reasons. One possibility that has been overlooked is that the '80s saw the introduction of violent real-time computer games. Historically, soldiers new to combat incurred a much higher casualty rate than combat-hardened men.

Starting in the '80s, military trainers discovered that raw recruits exposed to such newly invented games were much more willing to shoot at humans than their predecessors, and as a result incurred far fewer casualties. The inference to be made here is that the gaming experience reduces the heretofore reluctance to shoot another human being, and thereby increases the shooters' survival rate.

It would be instructive to investigate just how many of the mass murderers were computer-game enthusiasts, for they are surely numb to the killing they enjoy.

" He First Sent out his posse in1993 to gaurd malls over the holiday season because of violence at those venues in the past. He believed that program worked, saying there have been zero violent re-occurrences, azfamily.com reported"

Is March 31st considered part of "the holiday season"? I don't think so.

Which holiday season is at the end of March????

Does it mater what time of year it is? Joe is not as great as people think.

He is if you're WHITE and Bull-Headed!

Well, your post is not accurate againt your quoted story. Just sayin'

Maybe you should get your facts straight.

Sarah's right.

He claimed "zero re-occurrences".

He didn't specify what time of year.

Her own quote says it's over the holiday season. I think that would qualify as what time of the year. Sadly, you are blinded by your own hatred and are willing to ignore facts. I wish you had actual facts to stand on because then there could be a discussion. But since you have to resort to ignoring your own quote, there can't be a discussion because it does no good to try and talk with a person who is obviously very very mentally handicapped. And yes, it does matter what time of the year, since again, he did it over the holiday season. So it's not the holidays, and now it's his fault. Great, I now blame Sarah for my car accident from 2 years ago because she was not there to prevent it. See, I can use the same line of so called thinking.

I guess no one here has ever heard of Easter which occurs in March and April?

Easter fell on March 23, 2008. A week prior to this event, and not exactly part of the traditional holiday season. Maybe you too should get your facts straight. Maybe he should have someone patrolling the malls for "Take a Walk in the Park Day", or "I'm in Control Day". Just sayin'....

All, is this close enough to the holiday season?

Chandler Mall on lockdown after shooting - Phoenix Business …

www.bizjournals.com/.../chandler-mall-on-lockdown-after-shooting.html

Jan 05, 2011 · The Chandler Fashion Center was locked down and closed Wednesday afternoon as police sought an armed fugitive. Shots were heard fired and the mall was ...

My point is there is a claim of "zero re-occurrences". That is not correct.

On a side note: I do not hate Joe. I voted for him more than once. I do believe that he loves the spotlight. He needs to stop trying to be a reality star and focus on being Sheriff.

NRF (National Retail Foundation) defines Holiday Sales as those occurring during November and December.

Back to the Drawing Board, Sarah Baby!

Well, since January 5th is about 2 weeks after the holiday shopping season ends... no it isn't close enough.

So pointing out times when his posse isn't scheduled to be there is proving your point? His point is during holiday season when his posse is in force, it has stopped or most likely deterred any recurrences. And, first week of january is actually a big retail vacation time... Usually about the 2nd until Feb, a lot of retailers blow off steam from retail madness (I used to be one...).

My point is, you're really nitpicking and poking holes in a strawman. His inference is there have been no repeats of the holiday violence.

Again another person that will not see it, you cannot stop every single incodent, but you can sure deter them from happening in a mass form like Newton or aurora ever again.

Yeah...see...The problem with your logic is that his posse isn't on guard at the malls 365, nor was there a claim that it is. And, for the record, January 5th would not count as "close enough." That is after the holiday season, but I am sure you also tried, as a child, to put the square peg through the round hole.

This argument is ridiculous, but fun. So here goes:

First, for many christians, the holidays don't end until January 6th (the Epiphany), my mother being one.

Second, I have worked retail. January 5th is still holiday season. Has anyone heard about gift cards? Some people go and use them in January.

Third, I only joined in the conversation because of his poor communication skills. If he wanted to communicate properly, he would have said:

" He First Sent out his posse in1993 to gaurd malls over the holiday season because of violence at those venues in the past. He believed that program worked, saying there have been zero violent re-occurrences during those times, azfamily.com reported"

Enough to have asked myself the same question

Most cops I know are already the "George Zimmerman type".

Humans. It's all we have to work with.

This is a mistake......

What are the chances the majority of these "posse" members are the George Zimmerman type?

This situation is SO much different than what happened between George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin. It's like comparing apples to spark plugs.

I believe George Zipperhead shot Trayvon Martin after Trayvon started kicking his ass. He shouldn't have shot Trayvon, but he did and I do believe he should serve jail time. I also believe this....

If George Zimmerman had been at S.H.E.S. with a gun, the death count probably would have been lower, maybe even much lower. I'm not a George Z fan. I believe he should go to jail for killing Trayvon. But I also believe he would have saved kids at S.H.E.S. had he been there....

Haroldofhterocks - I sure wish more liberals thought like you. I don't agree with everything you have said on this article, but it is obvious that you don't have your head stuck in the anal orifice. I'm a conservative, with many liberal friends, most of whom are so blinded by the media and higher educational liberal bias that they won't listen to any kind of reason.

Although... you might want to watch out - if you keep think straight like this, you may find yourself in the land of us conservatives... you're already swinging on the rope-swing over the fence in many ways!

Mr Anderson, you'd be surprised how many liberals think like me. You'd be surprised at the number of Pro Life Democrats.

My conservative friends are WAY more blinded by Fox News than my liberal friends are blinded by MSNBC or CNN. All of my liberal friends can listen to and discuss ideas outside the "progressive" mind set. Only a few of my conservative friends can do that. Nearly all of my liberal friends LOVE political conversations, especially when conservatives are involved in the conversation. Most of my conservative friends absolutely refuse to talk politics.

Sorry to let you down, but this Pro Life Democrat will never, ever, ever, vote Republican. Not even Ronald Reagan would vote for today's Republicans. In fact, today's Republicans would have thrown Reagan to the wolves for all the times he raised taxes. Yet in death, he's the King. Imagine that.

The kid was a thug, in the George case. My opinion only, not controlled by the media! Does the president have his kids in a school with armed guards, yes. And does so many other so called special people in our cities. What do this guards have issues also, but nothing is stated about them being like George why! Because your all controlled by the media, yep. Having security in schools and around them will do alot to protect them, or our so called special people would not have them protecting the children they leave at school. Fact!

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

Harold,

I totally agree. The reason I compared them to G.Z. is because they're all wannabe cops who probably have aggression issues and violent tendencies.

I hope he is. He was restrained in his questioning of who was in his gated community. By the way, Police dont patrol gated communities very often. Its up the the homeowners to question strangers they see roaming around. He did exactly what he should have done. Young Martin thought he'd be a thug and jump Zimmerman. Teach him a lesson about disrespecting one of the brothers. Even after being wrestled to the ground, pinned under Martin he still didnt use his gun, he yelled out for help over and over hoping he wouldnt have to use his gun. But when no one answered his calls for help and only after getting his head smashed into the pavement over and over did he finally pull his weapon and shot. I think he used enormous restraint. Most people would have pulled their weapon as soon as they were jumped. Nothing will change the truth. Martin got what he deserved. But I think you knew that all along.

Getmadashell, I've seen the pictures of the 'pounding' GZ got. There's one small scratch at the crown of his head and the blood pattern indicates HE was on top, with it rolling on an angle toward his ears. That's impossible to do if you're on the bottom. He refused medical treatment on the spot but went to his own doctor the next day. Who knows what he did in the meantime.

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

What happened to the "not guilty until proven guilty"?

This is an invitation for more of the same. Some nutjob will infiltrate it, think about who is attracted to doing this crap, they are gun crazed in the first place.

If a mass murderer fully intends on shooting and killing himself after killing others why would other folks with guns deter the assault?

Hi Jeff. Not all of your fellow liberals are missing the mark. I agree with what you said.

Taking it a step further, I don't have a problem if the person who has access to the secured gun isn't a school employee. A volunteer with 100 hours of training, who has passed a background check, who has the recommendation of the local Po-Po, and has the blessing of the school principal is fine by me.

HELLO!!!! Having anyone armed would not deter these individuals, as most of the time they commit suicide! They are not deterred by the threat of violence, more likely spurred on. Who is to say that these "volunteers" aren't disturbed with violent tendencies?

Jeffrey, Virginia Tech has their own police dept., that didn't stop a massacre. Columbine had armed security, that didn't stop a massacre. Under-checked/un-diagnosed mental illness combined with a continuous higher population count, adds to the alarming rate of gun-related tragedies/suicides. Honest gun-owners, sure there are plenty of, but where does the responsibility stop? The mental health of ANY gun owner, past or present, INCLUDING RELATIVES needs to be critical and on ALL gun registries, including insurance carried per individual gun owned, no different than insuring a car(s). Lying about the mental health of said individual/family member(s) would be grounds for immediate confiscating of said fire arms and IDed as such on a National data-base. Un-announced periodic checkups for possible changes to one's mental state as to be able to own a firearm, or those in the family. I don't believe in the saying 'gun nuts,' but I DO believe that there are mentally disturbed individuals who own guns, or have relatives who could gain access to those weapons (Lanza), and THAT is what is disturbing and falling through the cracks of society.

RMLK.... if Adam Lanza knew an armed guard was at S.H.E.S., would he still have committed his crime? No one really has the answer to that question. We don't know whether it would have been a deterrent to him showing up armed. It's very possible it would not have been a deterrent.

That said, had an armed guard been at S.H.E.S, do you think Adam Lanza would have made it out of that first classroom and into another? I believe he would not. In fact, I believe he would have never gotten past the administrators who confronted him... the armed person would have been with the principal or right behind her.

I'm not arguing for an armed guard with a holstered weapon roaming the halls. I'm arguing for a secured weapon at the school with a trained person having access to it. I believe if a secured weapon had been at S.H.E.S., the death toll would have lower.

RMLK - HELLO? When's the last time - or, how many times - have you seen one of these crazies crash a hunting or gun club, a police department, a target range, etc. and try to shoot the masses there? That's what I thought... NEVER. Think about why this is true - then try to reconcile your lame thought-process again.

Mranderson, there was just a shooting today at a police station in New Jersey and three officers were shot. The gunman is dead.

These guys know they aren't going to come out alive, and that is partially why they do it. Armed guards at schools won't deter them, but who knows if it will further attract them to these locations. There is no certainty either way.

Amen on that one MRANDERSON. AMEN.. people cannot think past their nose.

RMLK and what if aliens had a space ship out side of the school and blasted everyone with their lazer breath as they left????

Dude you are a true monday night quarterback. and as long as you don't become a volunteer we won't have to worry about any volunteer with suicide tendancies.

Suspended,

Did any of the officers die? was there 20 dead? or 12 dead like Aurora? NO

Get off the post you big dope.

You contradict yourself,since when do psychopath maniacs think rationally? You think knowing people with guns are present will stop someone who is deranged from doing what they want to do? If that is your reasoning then it makes no sense. There are about a billion other options to throwing more guns into the situation but those would require actual thought and discussion of the problem. The answer gun advocates came up with is hey let's just load more people up with guns. It's the asy solution but not necessarily the right solution. I'd rather explore other options and I don't think as a tax payer my opinions about the situation should just get pushed to the side just because some people have hard ons for guns. If you are willing to spend money on armed guards why can't we spend it on security doors and metal detectors,why was loading up with guns the first and only response? That gun infomercial Lapierre gave was nonsense and it seemed to be fear mogering to the mentally retarded to me. What serious adult individual proposing putting our kids in the middle of armed gun fights uses terminology like "good guys" and "bad guys"? He completely diminshed the seriousness of the conversation. He and the NRA are a joke and it's members who overwelmingly don't support Lapierre's point of view should fire him. He made sane responsible gun owners seem like gun drooling wackos.

Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown

There were 18 random mass shootings in the 1980s, 54 in the 1990s, and 87 in the 2000s.

By DAVID KOPEL

Has the rate of random mass shootings in the United States increased? Over the past 30 years, the answer is definitely yes. It is also true that the total U.S. homicide rate has fallen by over half since 1980, and the gun homicide rate has fallen along with it. Today, Americans are safer from violent crime, including gun homicide, than they have been at any time since the mid-1960s.

Mass shootings, defined as four or more fatalities, fluctuate from year to year, but over the past 30 years there has been no long-term increase or decrease. But "random" mass shootings, such as the horrific crimes last Friday in Newtown, Conn., have increased.

Alan Lankford of the University of Alabama analyzed data from a recent New York Police Department study of "active shooters"—criminals who attempted to murder people in a confined area, where there are lots of people, and who chose at least some victims randomly. Counting only the incidents with at least two casualties, there were 179 such crimes between 1966 and 2010. In the 1980s, there were 18. In the 1990s, there were 54. In the 2000s, there were 87.

If you count only such crimes in which five or more victims were killed, there were six in the 1980s and 19 in the 2000s.

Why the increase? It cannot be because gun-control laws have become more lax. Before the 1968 Gun Control Act, there were almost no federal gun-control laws. The exception was the National Firearms Act of 1934, which set up an extremely severe registration and tax system for automatic weapons and has remained in force for 78 years.

Nor are magazines holding more than 10 rounds something new. They were invented decades ago and have long been standard for many handguns. Police officers carry them for the same reason that civilians do: Especially if a person is attacked by multiple assailants, there is no guarantee that a 10-round magazine will end the assault.

The 1980s were much worse than today in terms of overall violent crime, including gun homicide, but they were much better than today in terms of mass random shootings. The difference wasn't that the 1980s had tougher controls on so-called "assault weapons." No assault weapons law existed in the U.S. until California passed a ban in 1989.

Connecticut followed in 1993. None of the guns that the Newtown murderer used was an assault weapon under Connecticut law. This illustrates the uselessness of bans on so-called assault weapons, since those bans concentrate on guns' cosmetics, such as whether the gun has a bayonet lug, rather than their function.

What some people call "assault weapons" function like every other normal firearm—they fire only one bullet each time the trigger is pressed. Unlike automatics (machine guns), they do not fire continuously as long as the trigger is held. They are "semi-automatic" because they eject the empty shell case and load the next round into the firing chamber.

Today in America, most handguns are semi-automatics, as are many long guns, including the best-selling rifle today, the AR-15, the model used in the Newtown shooting. Some of these guns look like machine guns, but they do not function like machine guns.

Back in the mid-1960s, in most states, an adult could walk into a store and buy an AR-15 rifle, no questions asked. Today, firearms are the most heavily regulated consumer product in the United States. If someone wants to purchase an AR-15 or any other firearm, the store must first get permission for the sale from the FBI or its state counterpart. Permission is denied if the buyer is in one of nine categories of "prohibited persons," including felons, domestic-violence misdemeanants, and persons who have been adjudicated mentally ill or alcoholic.

Since gun controls today are far stricter than at the time when "active shooters" were rare, what can account for the increase in these shootings? One plausible answer is the media. Cable TV in the 1990s, and the Internet today, greatly magnify the instant celebrity that a mass killer can achieve. We know that many would-be mass killers obsessively study their predecessors.

Loren Coleman's 2004 book "The Copycat Effect: How the Media and Popular Culture Trigger the Mayhem in Tomorrow's Headlines" shows that the copycat effect is as old as the media itself. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe's 1774 classic "The Sorrows of Young Werther" triggered a spate of copycat suicides all over Europe. But today the velocity and pervasiveness of the media make the problem much worse.

A second explanation is the deinstitutionalization of the violently mentally ill. A 2000 New York Times study of 100 rampage murderers found that 47 were mentally ill. In the Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry Law (2008), Jason C. Matejkowski and his co-authors reported that 16% of state prisoners who had perpetrated murders were mentally ill.

In the mid-1960s, many of the killings would have been prevented because the severely mentally ill would have been confined and cared for in a state institution. But today, while government at most every level has bloated over the past half-century, mental-health treatment has been decimated. According to a study released in July by the Treatment Advocacy Center, the number of state hospital beds in America per capita has plummeted to 1850 levels, or 14.1 beds per 100,000 people.

Moreover, a 2011 paper by Steven P. Segal at the University of California, Berkeley, "Civil Commitment Law, Mental Health Services, and U.S. Homicide Rates," found that a third of the state-to-state variation in homicide rates was attributable to the strength or weakness of involuntary civil-commitment laws.

Finally, it must be acknowledged that many of these attacks today unfortunately take place in pretend "gun-free zones," such as schools, movie theaters and shopping malls. According to Ron Borsch's study for the Force Science Research Center at Minnesota State University-Mankato, active shooters are different from the gangsters and other street toughs whom a police officer might engage in a gunfight. They are predominantly weaklings and cowards who crumble easily as soon as an armed person shows up.

The problem is that by the time the police arrive, lots of people are already dead. So when armed citizens are on the scene, many lives are saved. The media rarely mention the mass murders that were thwarted by armed citizens at the Shoney's Restaurant in Anniston, Ala. (1991), the high school in Pearl, Miss. (1997), the middle-school dance in Edinboro, Penn. (1998), and the New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colo. (2007), among others.

At the Clackamas Mall in Oregon last week, an active shooter murdered two people and then saw that a shopper, who had a handgun carry permit, had drawn a gun and was aiming at him. The murderer's next shot was to kill himself.

Real gun-free zones are a wonderful idea, but they are only real if they are created by metal detectors backed up by armed guards. Pretend gun-free zones, where law-abiding adults (who pass a fingerprint-based background check and a safety training class) are still disarmed, are magnets for evildoers who know they will be able to murder at will with little threat of being fired upon.

People who are serious about preventing the next Newtown should embrace much greater funding for mental health, strong laws for civil commitment of the violently mentally ill—and stop kidding themselves that pretend gun-free zones will stop killers

The lack of votes for your post is revealing. It seems that the vast majority on these forums aren't here to exchange ideas and learn from another's perspective. Instead, it seems that they are here just to promote their view - no matter how uniformed and limited it may be.

I for one appreciate the information shared, and I tend to agree that unenforced "gun free zones" are targeted for the fact the perp will not face much, if any, resistance until police can arrive. Of course, by then, it is too late for too many people. To say that we can't afford to protect our children from a maniac with ANY kind of weapon because we can't afford it as simply unacceptable. If we can have plain clothes "sky-marshalls", we can have school marshalls too. And, just like with airplanes, some have them some don't. The fact that there could be one present would present a much stronger detterent than a sign telling a would be criminal they have a free pass into an area where people are undefended. Regardless of whether my school has one or not, I would much prefer to see a sign stating "This school is monitored and patroled by armed school Marshalls" than "gun free zone".

Um, Mr. Anderson, I believe someone shot 3 police officers inside a department yesterday. Most of the time the people making these attacks are wanting police to show up - very often they are looking to commit police assisted suicide.

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

Absolutely - not even a madman would dare to try and attack a school filled with armed kindergarteners! And you just know the NRA would be in favor of anything to sell more guns.

The only thing that will stop a bad person with a gun is a first grader with a gun.

Man we have some geniuses posting on here today.

BTW: in a close situation like the school shooting, a hand gun is far more effective than an assult RIFLE. If that school had an armed security he would have had the advantage of surprise and superior fire power.

And the posse? All of them know how to handle a gun, are solid citizens dedicated to protecting YOUR children. And the bad guys will not be able to redily identafy them, like the sky marshalls, a very powerful deterrent.

And it is something that can be done right away, until everyone quits arguing and agrees on a potential solution.

So lighten up, at least he is doing SOMETHING. Atleast until Odumbo sues him again.

Fact Check: The NRA does not sell guns. It does not manufacture guns. It was started post civil war by union officers who were shocked at the lack of firearms & safety training young recruits received. They run to this day one of the largest and most professional firearms safety & training program in which most police trainers receive their acredition. They also promote the preservation of the 2nd amendment rights. Just like the ACLU promotes protection of the other amendments like 1st, 4th & 5th.

Your ignorance of the subject and hatred blinds you to simple facts..

AZRANCHER,,, don't be mean, we can't let the liberals go off crying like that, they need to be able to scream out their hate for rights and liberty, and scream for more government control of everything we do.

Yes its true their ignorance and hatred blinds them

Really? This is your thoughtful contribution to such a serious topic. (heavy sigh)...

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

He is a media whore. Nothing more, nothing less.

Too bad funding for mental health issues has taken a nose dive over the last decade. Addressing that problem is truly so much cheaper (and less tragic) in the long run. Gun posses will not prevent homicidal/suicidal individuals from acting out.

Yah, and the police killed him. 3 Police officers with minor wounds. You can "what if" this for ever. Just try it and see if it helps, if not try something else. Not rocket science.

Obummer quit funding school security, check out this article.

http://www.washingtonguardian.com/washingtons-school-security-failure

KILL BUCKET???? You sure have a lot to say! Nothing, Nothing is 100% at least his gun was for protection and not a AK or M16. Whats your big idea, you sure have enough to hate!

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

In 1987 the British government banned semiautomatic rifles and brought shotguns—the last type of firearm that could be purchased with a simple show of fitness—under controls similar to those in place for pistols and rifles. Magazines were limited to two shells with a third in the chamber.

Later, a media frenzy coupled with an emotional campaign by parents of Dunblane resulted in the Firearms Act of 1998, which instituted a nearly complete ban on handguns. Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison.

The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time. Moreover, another massacre occurred in June 2010. Derrick Bird, a taxi driver in Cumbria, shot his brother and a colleague then drove off through rural villages killing 12 people and injuring 11 more before killing himself.

In Australia, a study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides "continued a modest decline" since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was "relatively small," with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.according to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun.

Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.

What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems.

In a Dec.18, op-ed, "Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown" David Kopel presents data showing that random mass shootings have increased dramatically since the 1980s, and goes on to posit the possible reasons. One possibility that has been overlooked is that the '80s saw the introduction of violent real-time computer games. Historically, soldiers new to combat incurred a much higher casualty rate than combat-hardened men. Starting in the '80s, military trainers discovered that raw recruits exposed to such newly invented games were much more willing to shoot at humans than their predecessors, and as a result incurred far fewer casualties. The inference to be made here is that the gaming experience reduces the heretofore reluctance to shoot another human being, and thereby increases the shooters' survival rate.

It would be instructive to investigate just how many of the mass murderers were computer-game enthusiasts, for they are surely numb to the killing they enjoy.

Gun Violence -- Let's Shift the Odds in Favor of the Good Guys!

Posted by Larry Elder on 12/20/2012 at 1:46 PM

The unimaginable horror of Sandy Hook jumpstarts another “national conversation” about firearm violence. President Barack Obama, promising “meaningful action,” said: “We will have to change….We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end.”

Let’s examine four of the “commonsense” measures frequently proposed by “gun control advocates”:

One, closing the “gun show loophole.” What gun show loophole? Restricted from selling at guns shows prior to 1986, a licensed dealer today requires a background check whether he sells guns at a store, a gun show or the back of his SUV.

Two, banning “high-capacity” magazines. One of the firearms used by Adam Lanza was a Bushmaster .223, with a magazine that can carry as many as 30 rounds. Would there have been less carnage had he been limited to a firearm with low-capacity magazines? What is the appropriate amount of firepower? Clips with 10 rounds? Five rounds? If the idea is to reduce the lethality of the guns, what does this do to reduce the lethality of the shooter’s intent?

The deadliest school massacre on American soil appears to have occurred in Chicago in 1958. A student set fire to the school, killing 92 students and three nuns. And in 1927, in Michigan, a former member of the school board set bombs at three schools, killing 45 (mostly second- to sixth-graders), including the bomber.

The Columbine tragedy could have been worse. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold set bombs throughout the school, but only one partially detonated, doing little damage. But had the bombs gone off as intended, hundreds could have been killed.

Three, reinstating the so-called “assault weapons” ban. An “assault rifle” is one where puling the trigger unleashes a volley of bullets, like a Tommy gun or AK-47. Since 1934, these firearms require licensing and registration. And in 1986, these weapons were banned from civilian sale. These laws remain in effect. The “assault weapons” ban did not restrict fully automatic weapons. Again, they were already under strict guidelines.

What exactly did this ban do? It outlawed certain weapons based on cosmetic features, many of which have nothing to do with the firepower or lethality. For example, the ban defined as an “assault weapon” a firearm with three or more of the following features: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor; a muzzle capable of launching a grenade; and a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. It outlawed the manufacturing of 18 specific models of semi-automatic weapons.

The Bushmaster .223 was not one of the outlawed weapons.

The ban, enacted in 1994, expired 10 years later. What has been the result? Nothing. Crime was unaffected. The reason is simple. Assault-style rifles (the kind banned by the law) are rarely used in crime. Less than 1 percent of weapons used in crimes are fully automatic rifles (illegal to buy for nearly 30 years). An estimated 1 to 2 percent of firearms used in crime are assault-style rifles, like the one used in Newtown.

Four, requiring a mental health test to prevent the “mentally ill” from purchasing a firearm. The goal is to predict who will use a firearm in an unlawful way. But how to define mental illness? Is it depression? Abraham Lincoln supposedly suffered from depression or melancholia. Would the 16^th president be denied the right to purchase a firearm? Do you forbid someone from purchasing a firearm if he or she is in therapy? Should a psychiatrist be required to inform the police when a client expresses anger, hatred or feelings of revenge?

Apart from the Second Amendment, how many other amendments to the Constitution will have been violated by denying someone the right to purchase a firearm because he is predicted to use the gun illegally -- based on a psych test.

So what can be done?

We can harden the target to make it more likely that the shooter will encounter resistance. We can re-examine the soundness of “gun-free” zones like schools and malls. By law and policy, these are places where bad guys know there are no guns.

Rampage school shootings in Pearl, Miss., Edinboro, Pa., and in Grundy, Va., have been stopped or minimized by citizens with legal weapons. More recently, it appears that a concealed carry weapon (CCW) holder minimized the damage that a shooter sought to inflict at the Clackamas Mall near Portland, Ore.

Nick Meli, who has a CCW permit and was armed, positioned himself near the mall shooter. Meli did not shoot, but feels he stopped what could have been greater carnage: “I'm not beating myself up ‘cause I didn't shoot him. I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

Americans, according to criminologist Gary Kleck, use guns 2.5 million times each year for self-defense, usually just brandishing the weapon. (The attacker is wounded in less than 8 percent of self-defense cases.) Of the 2.5 million, 400,000 claim that but for their gun they would have been dead. If we’re serious about “doing something,” we might consider shifting the odds in favor of the good guys.

Not hate, common sense.

We need to address the issue of people who need to be cared for. As long as we defeat Darwin in our pursuit of "Survival of the Richest", we will have to come to the conclusion that an errant parent caused this, not guns or Obama.

Scary??? Whats scary is south florida has more crime than the entire state of Arizona.....thats scary!

Great man? How can you say that knowing that he admitted to botching child rape cases?

In April 2007, a 3-year-old girl was reported molested by her father, an illegal immigrant who cared for the child while her mother was at work. When the mother confronted her husband about the abuse, he cried and swore he'd never do it again.

Yet a few days later, the mother noticed more signs of sexual abuse on her daughter and called for help. After the initial report, that help didn't come.

The string of unresolved cases left Elizabeth Ditlevson, deputy director for the Arizona Coalition Against Domestic Violence, shaking her head. "My impressions were anger at the system and concern for the people whose cases weren't addressed," she said.

According to both Sands and Scott Freeman, a sheriff's official who heard complaints from then-El Mirage Police Chief Mike Frazier about the quality of the sex-crimes investigations, more than 400 cases countywide had to be reopened. Freeman told outside investigators examining alleged managerial misconduct at Arpaio's office that a number of arrests were made in the reopened cases.
The April 2011 report on alleged managerial misconduct said the sheriff's internal effort to determine what had gone wrong with the sex-crimes investigations was twice derailed.

One delay occurred when the male sheriff's official leading the inquiry was accused of sexual harassment — this by a female supervisor whose portfolio included some of the mishandled cases, according to the report.

Another internal affairs investigation, launched in May 2008, was stopped after the investigator was pulled away at the direction of David Hendershott, then the top aide to Arpaio, to help with another matter. The internal probe was reopened in December 2010 while Hendershott was on medical leave, according to the 2011 summary.

Hendershott's account conflicted with others.

Hendershott, who has since resigned amid separate misconduct allegations and declined a request by the AP to comment, told investigators the internal affairs inquiry was still in progress when he went on medical leave in 2010.

Still, Hendershott told investigators that the El Mirage Police Department had good reason to be upset about the sex-crimes handled by the sheriff's office.

The report of the 13-year-old who had been inappropriately touched by her mother's live-in boyfriend had been faxed to one of Arpaio's investigators. El Mirage police, who were given back the case about 11 months later, learned that it hadn't been worked.

When El Mirage police finally tracked down the mother, she said her boyfriend had moved out and that she no longer had contact with him. She and her daughter were in counseling and didn't want to bring the case to court.

In their follow-up on the case of the 13-year-old attacked by the man claiming to have a broken car, El Mirage police discovered Arpaio's office hadn't interviewed the victim.

An El Mirage detective went to the girl's home just off the city's main drag. The girl's uncle said she and her mother weren't around and took the investigator's card with a promise to ask them to call.

The mother never called back. She and her daughter's whereabouts are unknown.

The case of the molested 3-year-old was returned to El Mirage police unworked five months after the initial report. The family's beige tract home was deserted, the phone disconnected.

You keep your 'great man'. I'll have none of him. Thank the Goddess I don't live in AZ.

You neglected to include the part where when El Mirage Police & Maricopa Sheriffs attempted to contact the victi & mother, they avoided and refused to cooperate and speak with the officials because several members of the family are illegal aliens and fear arrest and deportation ......

This has occured to me many times in LAPD, in illegal hispanic & chinese area's victims are very reluctant to cooperate with police.

Amanda: Yes, thank goodness you don't live in AZ...

ooooooo that had to hurt Amanda.... AZRANCHER told you I think. you libs really need your facts strait before you spew off at the mouth, oh wait you wouldn't be a liberal if you spoke with some sense would you.?

AZ rancher said;

You neglected to include the part where when El Mirage Police & Maricopa Sheriffs attempted to contact the victi & mother, they avoided and refused to cooperate and speak with the officials...

Actually in the case of the 13 year old, it's right in the article clip;

When El Mirage police finally tracked down the mother, she said her boyfriend had moved out and that she no longer had contact with him. She and her daughter were in counseling and didn't want to bring the case to court.

In the case of the 3 year old, the mother herself reported on the illegal immigrant father several times;

In April 2007, a 3-year-old girl was reported molested by her father, an illegal immigrant who cared for the child while her mother was at work. When the mother confronted her husband about the abuse, he cried and swore he'd never do it again.

Yet a few days later, the mother noticed more signs of sexual abuse on her daughter and called for help. After the initial report, that help didn't come.

In the first example I cited the abuser was illegal but Sheriff Arpaio did nothing. And from what I read, many of these cases were reported by relatives. This mother, for example, insisted that her real name be used in this article:

Levalya Beyart, a social worker and single mother who wanted her name used in this article, remembers the horror she felt when she opened the front door of her modest home in a gated community in El Mirage on July 11, 2007.

Her mentally challenged 13-year-old daughter, who had been home alone, was "walking around in a daze," she told New Times.

The girl was naked from the waist down, and her body was scratched and bruised.

The living room was "torn up," says Beyart. "You could tell there had been some kind of struggle."

At first, she thought her daughter might have suffered a "flashback" to sexual abuse by a family member more than a year earlier.

But after Beyart got the girl to calm down, her daughter told a story that "sounded believable" to the mother.

Beyart's daughter said a stranger had come to the door in the afternoon, begging to use the phone because his car had broken down. She let him in, and he attacked and raped her.

Beyart phoned police and reported the incident, records show. She says an El Mirage officer showed up at her home and drove the mother and daughter to a crisis center in Glendale, where a nurse conducted a forensic exam.

Some blood was found on the girl's genitals, but the nurse believed it was possibly because the teen was beginning her first period. Only the theory wasn't correct, because the girl didn't start menstruating until months later.

A few days passed, and Beyart became concerned that nobody was taking the case seriously.

She was right.

Records show that it quickly was assigned to detectives from the MCSO sex-crimes unit — who never even bothered to interview Beyart's daughter.

Beyart was given an MCSO detective's number to call. She doesn't remember his name. But she'll never forget what he told her.

The detective promised to follow up on the case but added, "This [is] not a priority," according to Beyart.

In fact, records show, there was no follow-up. Beyart remains angry and disillusioned over the treatment that she and her daughter received from Joe Arpaio's office.

"I don't know," she tells New Times. "I was really hurt. I'm not sure if it's because we are people of color. They majorly dropped the ball."

If her daughter told the truth — and Beyart believes she did — a rapist probably still is on the loose.

The lack of a criminal investigation was concerning, but Beyart's priority was her daughter. Beyart enrolled her in more therapy sessions. In the months that followed the rape, the daughter's mental state deteriorated. She "had her days and nights mixed up. She would stay in the shower for hours. She wasn't as social as she used to be. There was weight gain, depression."

Beyart cringes every time she hears another news story — and there have been many — about how Arpaio's office failed to properly investigate sex crimes.

"He allowed this to happen," Beyart says of the sheriff. "Nobody's disciplined. They're trying to cover their behinds."

Now, while I do understand that illegals and undocumented can sometimes be unwilling to help police, that absolutely cannot be used to explain all the botched cases, including those highly-publicized ones like Sabrina Morrison (see post 1.26)

I am former undocumented myself--was adopted as an infant internationally, never told before my parents passed away in a car accident, which made me unable to provide USCIS with a copy when they found out they lost it 18 years after my adoption. I spent three years in a deportation camp trying to find that paper after they discovered there was nowhere to deport me to--I have no original birth certificate because I was abandoned at an international orphanage with no documentation. After I finally tracked down that adoption paper they released me, but with the caveat that if my name should come up in front of Homeland Security again for any reason whatsoever they can revoke my naturalization and place me back in the deportation camp, this time permanently. For this reason, I don't own a car, don't drive, take public transportation or bicycle to wherever I need to go, don't register to vote, get a passport, or travel anywhere I can't get to on local mass transit.

So with all that being said, I do understand immigrants' unwillingness to report a crime--but that also applies to many US citizens as well. Earlier this fall two guys got into an altercation on the bus and one stabbed the other right before the driver opened the door and they fell out into the street--and out of a bus of 18 people I was the only on who took out my phone to call 911. I'm scheduled to testify in March, and I'm the only witness. The driver won't even testify.

People have a distrust of cops and won't help them because there's this impression that the cops don't care. This is not helped along by the actions of cops like Sheriff Arpaio, who even when there was a willing cooperant, didn't investigate, thereby perpetuating the impression that cops don't care. It's a vicious cycle.

taharrington:

Nope. Didn't hurt at all because AZ Rancher was incorrect about my not mentioning that the victim didn't want to cooperate--that fact was in the article clip--which he apparently missed. And so did you. Now, whether they refused to cooperate because they had illegal family members was not specified in the article, if it was even known, so therefore that speculation is irrelevant.

He was also incorrect about the mother of the three year old child not wanting to cooperate because the baby's father was illegal--the article says she called Arpaio's office herself to turn him in, a sentence that apparently you and AZ Rancher missed also.

And in any case, these are words on a page. I wouldn't have survived the deportation camp if I was that thin-skinned--or that childishly concerned over whether my thoughts and my opinions actually mattered to anyone else.

I post because I have something I want to say or something to add to a discussion, not because I want others to 'like' what I say or agree with me. Whether you agree with me or not is your prerogative--you are not obligated to do so, nor am I obligated to agree with you. Dissenting opinion is one of the greatest things about our country, and one that I treasure while on Newsvine because often dissent introduces a different viewpoint I hadn't considered before.

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

Sheriff Joe has the right idea for a first step. The next step is to get conceal and carry for the teachers.

To Amanda: amen, and thank you. I DO live in AZ, and love the state and am frustrated and often angered by the stupidity that comes from "Sher'f Joe" and his minions in the legislature (to include that sorry excuse for a governor). I wouldn't trust Joe to come into any school with his "posse". He very nearly lost this last election (although we might get lucky and he'll drop dead while in office), but not before the corruption up there in the State Capitol tried mightily to derail a legal election process. There are those of us who continue to work for a more balanced state government. Although I am a proud, registered, voting Democrat, I consider myself a moderate and believe that personal responsibility and accountability are things to be proud of. As a social worker in the State child welfare system, I have seen what happens to families and children when crimes against them go under-reported because they're afraid of people like Joe. That's not something he or any REAL law-abiding citizen should be proud of...but, you're reading statements by some of them on this discussion line, and they sound like that's "just what they deserve". Humanity, compassion and decency aren't part of their way of thinking, so I've long since given up on even expecting that much.

Meanwhile, the pendulum does swing both ways and Jan will drop dead from her smoking and drinking habits and Joe will continue growing old and doing no one any good.

Catgoddess; You're welcome, and my apologies if I may have come across as having written off the entire state for the actions of a few.

The cycle of people not trusting cops because they think the cops don't care is a self-perpetuating one, and it is largely a part of why crime is so rampant these days. Gone are the days when you know who the op on our block was and you could ask the for advice; gone are the days of 'Mayberry' when you trusted that cops were like Andy Griffith and had the best interest of the people at heart.

Many still do, I'm not saying there aren't good cops out there, but we see increasing stories on the news about police brutality and ignoring peoples' rights, and so when someone does see something happening they don't report it. And then the criminals get bolder. And because the people don't report it, the cops figure the people don't care, and it just perpetuates.

If we want to turn this around we're going to have to take the first step and start trusting our law enforcement again--and our law enforcement is going to have to start working toward earning that trust back. That thin bluline shouldn't, can't, extend to whenoneofyour own has blatantly broken the law.

that's a stupid idea...

All it does is make "All teachers" - primary targets. Its just like in the military - the enemy tries to take down as many officers as they can. The point being - the average grunt doesn't have all the information, if only for a little while - if they disrupt the chain of command, they have a tactical advantage.

As it stands right now - the teachers have a use, they could be used to keep the kids calm... if a terrorist even thinks a teacher might have a hidden gun - he would be smart to take them out first ... that removes a potential threat. Back in the day - that was the reason they did not arm corpsmen (battle field Paramedics) they gave that job to conscientious Objectors who wanted to help, but for personal reasons - refused to carry guns.

Its the same reason 7 - 11 do not arm their night clerks, they have even been know to fire a clerk if he brings his own gun to work and shoots a robber! Why, you may ask? If the robber knows that the clerk has no weapon and has been trained to turn over the money ... that makes it much less likely that the bad guy will kill them on the job. If one clerk does start shooting bad guys ... that starts a chain reaction which in the end makes all night clerks "potentially" be armed. meaning the bad guy as no reason to not shoot the clerk - first- that gives him time and opportunity to open the register and not spend time having to watch his back.

Ever wonder why bank tellers don't resist? They just give the bad guy the money and let him go - its the cops job to catch the bad guy - and that will happen outside the store, with less chance of the teller or the customers getting shot.

Its safer for everyone when you remove - amateurs from the equation. Yes - we want to think that good old Ms. Brown can take a bad guy by surprise and safe the day. In real life, what usually happens, is Ms. Brown gets shot, the kids panic, start screaming - the bad guy gets nervous and unloads a couple of clips. More kids die needlessly!

Unless you have 100% belief that the bad guy will kill everyone and there is no other way to solve the crisis - the best thing is to keep the bad guy believing that he is in charge and has alternatives. If he thinks the teacher may have guns - he will remove that threat 1st. Instead of a hostage situation you have a murder ... now the bad guy knows, without a doubt - he is committed and he has no further doubt he will be taken out - no matter what the negotiator says. Armed and nothing to lose, where do you see that scenario ending? In my book - that makes him a dead man walking ... might as well do what he came to do.

bottom line - if the average cop today will shoot your dog for growling - even if the cop is not going to enter your house. Do you trust your Kids to a hyped up, amped up cop chasing a bad guy? what if he decides that shooting your kid will make it possible that he saves the rest? He may take that chance.

After all - he can apologize later. Besides, its within guidelines.

Yah, they have the same problem at banks, police stations, and airports. So tell me, when was the last time you heard of someone getting shot by accident at any of these locations? And when was there a mass murder at one of these locations? But you hear of mass killings at places without armed protection all of the time. (Even make phrases like "going Postal", at unarmed government locations)

If you want gun control, move to Chicago. The whole state of Arizona had a fraction of the 500 plus murders this year that Chicago had, yet it is the wild wild west?? Afghanistan is safer than Washington DC.

The private schools have armed security, why cant our children have it too? Don't hear of any congressmen's children listed in any of these mass murders.

SRMcMAHON......... ok you top the cake of totally lost with reality, you liberals are all about throwing evry possible senario out there to justify your idiotic wishes to ban guns and ban armed guards at schools, bet your friggin stupid ass wouldn't say this s*&(& if your child was 6 feet under just before christmas would you??

If Los Angeles School District has its own SCHOOL POLICE DEPARTMENT what is the problem with Maricopa County's Posse?

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

Actually, I'm just watching the show. I didn't have children!

And I'm quite happy to think, I won't be here for another 50 years of this kind of "progress".

You could look up the definition of "vigilante." But, that would detract from the obvious - that you have no idea what a deputized posse is . . .

Political Prisoner 2012
Hooray!

Now our schools are really safe with vigilantes and lynch mobs running around with more and more assault weapons.

United States - awash in a sea of guns and sociopaths and drowning in insanity.

Lynch Mobs,Vigilantes? is that really what you think is going on? is that your way of labeling them since your pathetic liberal ass cannot come to terms with the fact that we need to put messures in place to protect our children?

OH LETS BAN ASSULT WEAPONS do de do de do de do
Hey Moron, did you think for a minute that we are going to totally eliminate them?

take your horse blinders off man and wake the F UP.

Your in the 20th century, evil is all around you, stop being a government controling every aspect of your life, suck on uncle sams titty dusch bag, pot smoking liberal tardo and WAKE UP!!!!!!

What is the LASPD about...

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

once is enough!!

Good call. We have a long way to go, to even come close to the number of bus accident victims.

My children will never go to a school in which teachers carry firearms.

My youngest is autistic and it will take only a moment's inattention for him to lay hands on that firearm--he's fascinated with all things mechanical but because he's autistic, he's unable to understand the responsibility inherent in handling one.

yea and and and my teacher was an alien, and wow she could have totally like taken me up on her mother ship.....

Dude your a real DUM ASS

stop posting liberal one sided crap. I pray you never have to experiance this @!$%#.

Liberal Amanda, you have weapons at home.... let me answer it for you"OH GOOD HEAVENS NO"

So you as a liberal are all about casting a contra to every point because instead of seeing the fact that it makes sense, you would rather argue.

So your pea brain mantality thinks that the teacher in a class room with an autistic child is just going to strap a gun on her side and pull it out for show and tell.

Or better yet have it in a desk draw so everyone can just go into it and get it right???

yea you really are out of touch with reality.

taharrington, you appear to be the dumb ass.

taharrington:

Yes, I have weapons at home. I live in a neighborhood with five different gangs running through it. I own a firearm (locked and has no ammo, it's my Dad's Vietnam piece) and I practice Kumooyeh--Korean Sword disciplines. The one time I had someone attempt to break into my house I met him at the door with my swords and held him at swordpoint until the cops got there. Dad always taught me to use the absolute minimum amount of force necessary to accomplish a goal and my swords have always been sufficient. (and yes,the swords are out of reach of my autistic child too.)

Although one can hope for best outcome, one also has to consider all the possible negative consequences of a specific action before deciding on a course. And I will not have my autistic child going to a school in which his teacher carries a firearm.

No, I don't believe a teacher in a classroom with autistic children will pull it out for show and tell--but since the teacher would need to have the gun with her or in her classroom to present a common-sense defense against possible intruder incursion, there is a POSSIBILITY that my child would be able to get hold of it.

He is incapable of being responsible for his actions, due to his disability, and so it becomes my responsibility to be responsible for his. I look at Nancy Lanza and see what COULD happen with my son, so it is my responsibility to do everything in my power to make sure it WON'T happen. That includes not allowing him to have access to weapons, not showing him how to point aim, and shoot, and not placing him in a situation where he could potentially get anyone else's firearm.

Now, that all being said, I would strongly recommend that you amend your general tone. I have had the dubious pleasure of reading many of your posts and the general tenor of them seems to include profanity and name-calling, and generally disparaging others for their opinions. If you truly want to engage in productive, educational discussions with others on Newsvine you will have to learn to respect others opinions even as you advance your own in non-confrontational ways.

If Los Angeles School District has its own SCHOOL POLICE DEPARTMENT what is the problem with Maricopa County's Posse?

The Los Angeles School Police Department (LASPD) is the largest independent school police department in the United States, with over 350 sworn police officers, 126 non-sworn school safety officers (SSO), and 34 civilian support staff dedicated to serving the Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD). It is the fifth largest police department in Los Angeles County, and the 14th largest in California.

Unique to the LASPD team is the variety of assignments and services it delivers to its customers: the students and faculty at the schools, the employees of the LAUSD, and the communities in which the students live. Our Police Officers are assigned to school campuses and also patrol the surrounding areas. Our School Safety Officers are also assigned to school campuses and parking enforcement. The LASPD also shares jurisdiction and interacts with over 13 municipal and county law enforcement agencies (to include multiple outside agency divisions and stations), as well as state and federal law enforcement and emergency services agencies.

The LASPD team is a progressive and forward-thinking organization enjoying the support of the LAUSD Board of Education, Superintendent, staff, and parents who recognize the important role the LASPD plays in keeping their children and students safe. LASPD personnel concentrate their policing efforts on improving campus safety and creating safe school passages for students, staff, and school community. The goal of the LASPD team is to address the quality of life issues that impact student safety and the ability of the students and staff to enjoy a safe learning environment free from the fear of crime. Our team is also committed to ensuring a safe school community as we partner with local municipal law enforcement agencies, residential and business communities, faith-based organizations, and various non-profit community-service organizations.

In 1996, the Los Angeles School Police Department formed its first Critical Response Team (known as the Special Response Team) as a warrant serivce and diginitary protection entity. Today the mission of the Critical Response Team has grown due to a steady increase of school shootings, workplace violence, and growing concerns of terrorist threats throughout the United States. The focus of the CRT is service-based by supporting, assisting, and training LASPD personnel in their role as first responders to critical incidents, which affect the safety of the students and staff of the Los Angeles Unified School District.

The CRT provides LASPD personnel with advanced training and tactics in areas such as Immediate Action Rapid Deployment (IARD) for active shooters, Multi-Assault Counter-Terrorism Attack Capabilities (MACTAC), and Mobile Field Force (MFF)/crowd control, etc. The CRT also provides support to the LASPD K-9 Unit and assists the LASPD Detective Unit in serving search warrants. CRT also provides mutual aide assistance to our various law enforcement partners during unusual occurrances.

The assignment to CRT is ancillary to the primary duties of LASPD personnel. To be selected for the CRT, LASPD personnel must undergo a rigorous series of qualifications (i.e., physical agility, shooting qualification, practical assessments, etc.).

The dedicated members of the CRT have an extensive background in teaching and training personnel and they are committed to supporting and developing the men and women of the LASPD who are the first responders during a crisis to protect the students and staff of the LAUSD.

n 1987 the British government banned semiautomatic rifles and brought shotguns—the last type of firearm that could be purchased with a simple show of fitness—under controls similar to those in place for pistols and rifles. Magazines were limited to two shells with a third in the chamber.

Later, a media frenzy coupled with an emotional campaign by parents of Dunblane resulted in the Firearms Act of 1998, which instituted a nearly complete ban on handguns. Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison.

The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time. Moreover, another massacre occurred in June 2010. Derrick Bird, a taxi driver in Cumbria, shot his brother and a colleague then drove off through rural villages killing 12 people and injuring 11 more before killing himself.

In Australia, a study published by the Brookings Institution, found homicides "continued a modest decline" since 1997. They concluded that the impact of the National Firearms Agreement was "relatively small," with the daily rate of firearms homicides declining 3.2%.according to their study, the use of handguns rather than long guns (rifles and shotguns) went up sharply, but only one out of 117 gun homicides in the two years following the 1996 National Firearms Agreement used a registered gun.

Suicides with firearms went down but suicides by other means went up. They reported "a modest reduction in the severity" of massacres (four or more indiscriminate homicides) in the five years since the government weapons buyback. These involved knives, gas and arson rather than firearms.

In 2008, the Australian Institute of Criminology reported a decrease of 9% in homicides and a one-third decrease in armed robbery since the 1990s, but an increase of over 40% in assaults and 20% in sexual assaults.

What to conclude? Strict gun laws in Great Britain and Australia haven't made their people noticeably safer, nor have they prevented massacres. The two major countries held up as models for the U.S. don't provide much evidence that strict gun laws will solve our problems.

In a Dec.18, op-ed, "Guns, Mental Illness and Newtown" David Kopel presents data showing that random mass shootings have increased dramatically since the 1980s, and goes on to posit the possible reasons. One possibility that has been overlooked is that the '80s saw the introduction of violent real-time computer games. Historically, soldiers new to combat incurred a much higher casualty rate than combat-hardened men. Starting in the '80s, military trainers discovered that raw recruits exposed to such newly invented games were much more willing to shoot at humans than their predecessors, and as a result incurred far fewer casualties. The inference to be made here is that the gaming experience reduces the heretofore reluctance to shoot another human being, and thereby increases the shooters' survival rate.

It would be instructive to investigate just how many of the mass murderers were computer-game enthusiasts, for they are surely numb to the killing they enjoy.

A state legislator in Texas came up with a possible solution. His proposal is to implement a program similar to the Air Marshal program. Individual teachers or administrators could decide to take the training (on their own) which would allow them to carry a concealed weapon within a school. Nobody would know who they were, not students or other teachers/administrators, and such individuals would be required to keep their weapon on their person, not in a desk or other fixed location. Since nobody would know who these individuals are or if anyone in a particular school were armed, it would have a significant deterrent effect, just as it does in our commercial airline system.

1. Mrs. Reed
2. Mr. Cole
3. Mrs. Rogers

Just three of several teachers who would have surely center-punched me.

Peter17, that state legislator in Texas has the right idea. Protect our kids that's all that matters.

A volunteer has no stake in doing their job properly beyond whatever their personal ethics may be. They aren't being paid. They have no contract. They have no obligation.

I disagree. What if that volunteer went to that school? What if that volunteer has kids, nephews, nieces, or neighbors that attend that school? If the volunteer guarding the school has lived in the community for many years, I believe payment and contracts are meaningless, but the "obligation" is taken very seriously.

How would you feel if the most responsible gun owner that you know signed up for this duty and went through the training and background check? I know I would feel like my kid is more protected from the next Adam Lanza then if no volunteer was there.

I love this idea. My children have volunteer dad's at school. They are called "Watch Dogs" I would feel so much better if someone was there to protect my children. Right now they are sitting ducks..

So you think your kids would be safer in the middle of a gun fight? I think it's pretty telling of the mindset of gun lovers that the only solution they are willing to adopt is putting more guns into the situation. There has been no discussion of adding security meassures to the schools. Everyone went right for "let's start packing heat". People are so easily duped by the NRA. The NRA has no iterest in protecting your kids. The NRA's only concern is the proliferation of this country with guns. They work for the gun manufacturers first and for most. They couldn't care less who buys their guns because if so called "bad guys" buy them then they will sell more to the so called "good guys". The way to end gun violence isn't throwing more guns at the situation,that's like trying tto put a gasoline fire out with lighter fluid. We need tougher laws with higher penalties. We need to get assualt weapons out of the equation. The last I checked it doesn't take 100 rounds out of a semiautomatic to bag a dear. We need to stop cateering to paranoid gun loving wackadoos. The 2nd amendment doesn't guarantee the right to specific types of weapons. People buying semiautomatic weapons isn't a right and we have been conned by the NRA into thinking it is. There is nothing in the constitution that gives people the right to large rounds magazines. It's time for the adult sane people in this country to take control. When you look at countries that are full of guns they are countries that are like war zones. I don't want to live in a war zone.

like a tru liberal you read and understood only 1/4 of that article, did you see or even comprehend the part about 100 hours of training and background checks, or did your liberal brain shut down after the second word.

no MX1969 your sooo right lets put flowers in the barrels and sing KUM BA YA,

Lib, your not going to understand logic so it makes no sense arguing with you,.

mx1969, at least the crazy person would be shooting at someone else instead of just walking around shooting defenceless kids. No to mention the chance of the crazy person being shot before they ran out of ammo just killing kids.

Just were in the Constutition does it say which weapons are to be banned? Liberals want to ban even flintlocks, if they had thier way, then they would call the police compaining that it will take them over 15 mins while a crooks holds a non permited gun to their head, thinking of ways to sue the police. Then you have the idots in the newspapers listing all the gun owners, so the crooks know where to try to steal guns, and which neighborhoods have no guns, so that they can rob more easily.

All I can say is "Go Joe"

jrzworld, where do you get your information?

Apparently you don't have children, or do not go to your child's school.

Do you know that with an armed guard/policeman the children aren't necessarily going to grab his gun. If he's got the proper holster, the gun is latched into it, and there are some that can only be removed by the wearer/officer. It has to come up in a certain direction in order to be removed from the holster.

Do you know that children usually "look up" to &/or admire an armed guard, and should there be anything wrong, they will go to that person FIRST! They bond with their protectors -- so to speak. Having an officer or two on the grounds doesn't necessarily mean the children are in danger, ever.

Some have stated on this blog, that the weapon should be locked up and not on the guard. Well, he can't stop an aggressor from shooting that first victim if he has to "go unlock the weapon and then run all the way back to where the shooting is taking place."

We here in my town have had an assigned police officer on the grounds of the high school for almost 15 years. We had, just before Christmas, a student get on campus with a loaded handgun. However, the students reported him to the officer, and he was arrested before anything could be done.

The students -- like I said -- bond with the officer, so they feel secure, safe and confident in talking with him/her, and vise versa. Sheriff Arpaio has a valid issue in calling in his "posse". Why wait for a do nothing/go nowhere administration to lollygag over how to protect our children, when the individual state government can make those decisions without hearing odumber stutter about what to do.

Keep reasoning in a reasonless world, Pollyanna.

Oooh. 100 hours of training. That's about 2.5 workweeks. How long does a teacher or a policeman train to do their job? And guess what! Adam Effin' Lanza would have passed a background check.

JrzWrld

"And guess what! Adam Effin' Lanza would have passed a background check."

Having been through law enforcement background checks I doubt that very much.

He had no criminal record. He could conceivably have passed one. Now, I know someone who was a cop applying for a position working with juveniles. The background check was extensive, and he did not pass for an unknown reason despite being an officer in good standing. But they went as far to speak with childhood neighbors during their background check. They dug through EVERYTHING (and I suspect found out that he ran with a wild crowd when he was young). They gonna do that for volunteers? Somehow I doubt it.

JrzWrld

"He had no criminal record. He could conceivably have passed one. Now, I know someone who was a cop applying for a position working with juveniles. The background check was extensive, and he did not pass for an unknown reason despite being an officer in good standing. But they went as far to speak with childhood neighbors during their background check. They dug through EVERYTHING (and I suspect found out that he ran with a wild crowd when he was young). They gonna do that for volunteers? Somehow I doubt it."

Posse members are not just volunteers, they are typically deputised and go through the same testing. The background check in my county also includes a polygraph and a psychological test.

You mean, like dropping our panties for the TSA?

Enjoy the regime you create, Sparky.

Happster, the "good guy with a gun" was Nancy Lanza.

How'd that work out for you?

The good guy with gun was good until he shot the kids, then he became the "criminal" that needs to be punished to the full extent of the law. Drats, we didn't punish him fast enough !

'Bucket
You mean, like dropping our panties for the TSA?

Enjoy the regime you create, Sparky.

parallelcooler
Happster, the "good guy with a gun" was Nancy Lanza.

How'd that work out for you?

sJ-3229045
The good guy with gun was good until he shot the kids, then he became the "criminal" that needs to be punished to the full extent of the law. Drats, we didn't punish him fast enough !

You three are really stuck on stupid. Lanza's mother made the mistake of not securing her weapons ina safe with a combo only she knew, not a key.

and you all have your what if crap, its funny I mean really funny, you just don't want to accept it, you want things your way and if it isn't then to hell with it.... I mean really if it works Im for it, but you liberal wackos won't even look at it that way.

WOW

Gun Violence -- Let's Shift the Odds in Favor of the Good Guys!

Posted by Larry Elder on 12/20/2012 at 1:46 PM

The unimaginable horror of Sandy Hook jumpstarts another “national conversation” about firearm violence. President Barack Obama, promising “meaningful action,” said: “We will have to change….We can’t tolerate this anymore. These tragedies must end.”

Let’s examine four of the “commonsense” measures frequently proposed by “gun control advocates”:

One, closing the “gun show loophole.” What gun show loophole? Restricted from selling at guns shows prior to 1986, a licensed dealer today requires a background check whether he sells guns at a store, a gun show or the back of his SUV.

Two, banning “high-capacity” magazines. One of the firearms used by Adam Lanza was a Bushmaster .223, with a magazine that can carry as many as 30 rounds. Would there have been less carnage had he been limited to a firearm with low-capacity magazines? What is the appropriate amount of firepower? Clips with 10 rounds? Five rounds? If the idea is to reduce the lethality of the guns, what does this do to reduce the lethality of the shooter’s intent?

The deadliest school massacre on American soil appears to have occurred in Chicago in 1958. A student set fire to the school, killing 92 students and three nuns. And in 1927, in Michigan, a former member of the school board set bombs at three schools, killing 45 (mostly second- to sixth-graders), including the bomber.

The Columbine tragedy could have been worse. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold set bombs throughout the school, but only one partially detonated, doing little damage. But had the bombs gone off as intended, hundreds could have been killed.

Three, reinstating the so-called “assault weapons” ban. An “assault rifle” is one where puling the trigger unleashes a volley of bullets, like a Tommy gun or AK-47. Since 1934, these firearms require licensing and registration. And in 1986, these weapons were banned from civilian sale. These laws remain in effect. The “assault weapons” ban did not restrict fully automatic weapons. Again, they were already under strict guidelines.

What exactly did this ban do? It outlawed certain weapons based on cosmetic features, many of which have nothing to do with the firepower or lethality. For example, the ban defined as an “assault weapon” a firearm with three or more of the following features: a folding or telescoping stock; a pistol grip; a bayonet mount; a flash suppressor; a muzzle capable of launching a grenade; and a magazine capacity over 10 rounds. It outlawed the manufacturing of 18 specific models of semi-automatic weapons.

The Bushmaster .223 was not one of the outlawed weapons.

The ban, enacted in 1994, expired 10 years later. What has been the result? Nothing. Crime was unaffected. The reason is simple. Assault-style rifles (the kind banned by the law) are rarely used in crime. Less than 1 percent of weapons used in crimes are fully automatic rifles (illegal to buy for nearly 30 years). An estimated 1 to 2 percent of firearms used in crime are assault-style rifles, like the one used in Newtown.

Four, requiring a mental health test to prevent the “mentally ill” from purchasing a firearm. The goal is to predict who will use a firearm in an unlawful way. But how to define mental illness? Is it depression? Abraham Lincoln supposedly suffered from depression or melancholia. Would the 16^th president be denied the right to purchase a firearm? Do you forbid someone from purchasing a firearm if he or she is in therapy? Should a psychiatrist be required to inform the police when a client expresses anger, hatred or feelings of revenge?

Apart from the Second Amendment, how many other amendments to the Constitution will have been violated by denying someone the right to purchase a firearm because he is predicted to use the gun illegally -- based on a psych test.

So what can be done?

We can harden the target to make it more likely that the shooter will encounter resistance. We can re-examine the soundness of “gun-free” zones like schools and malls. By law and policy, these are places where bad guys know there are no guns.

Rampage school shootings in Pearl, Miss., Edinboro, Pa., and in Grundy, Va., have been stopped or minimized by citizens with legal weapons. More recently, it appears that a concealed carry weapon (CCW) holder minimized the damage that a shooter sought to inflict at the Clackamas Mall near Portland, Ore.

Nick Meli, who has a CCW permit and was armed, positioned himself near the mall shooter. Meli did not shoot, but feels he stopped what could have been greater carnage: “I'm not beating myself up ‘cause I didn't shoot him. I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."

Americans, according to criminologist Gary Kleck, use guns 2.5 million times each year for self-defense, usually just brandishing the weapon. (The attacker is wounded in less than 8 percent of self-defense cases.) Of the 2.5 million, 400,000 claim that but for their gun they would have been dead. If we’re serious about “doing something,” we might consider shifting the odds in favor of the good guys.

taharrington- My own parents had guns in LOCKED cabinets, and I could pick the locks on them ALL, combination types included (how to do this is now easily found on the internet).

So your point is sadly shortsighted.