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Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel, pictured at a flag-raising ceremony at the Chicago Police Academy in October, said this month that "we will not rest" until Chicago's growing homicide rate is reversed.
New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg was crowing.
"The number of murders this year will be lower than any time in recorded city history," Bloomberg said Friday in a statement announcing that homicides in the city this year had fallen to 414 — the fewest since it started keeping such statistics in 1963.
About the same time Friday, Chicago police were trying to get the message out that their city hadn't actually recorded its 500th homicide this year, as was being reported. A few hours later, they had to backtrack and acknowledge that, yes, in fact, "the city has seen its 500th homicide for 2012."
That's right: There were more homicides this year in Chicago than in New York, a city with three times the population. That means Chicagoans were proportionally 3.7 times more likely to be homicide victims than New Yorkers were in 2012:
Overall, crime is down in Chicago in just about every category — except the most devastating one.
"We've obviously seen, as a city, our shootings and our homicides going in a different direction," Mayor Rahm Emanuel said this month at a graduation ceremony for police recruits, vowing, "We will not rest" until that trend is reversed.
Grim milestone: Chicago records 500th homicide of 2012
Meanwhile, in New York, "we're preventing crimes before someone is killed," Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Friday.
New York didn't just reduce homicides — it reduced them by 19.6 percent. And Chicago didn't just have more homicides — it had 15.6 percent more.
Both figures are extraordinary. Last year, homicides fell by about 4 percent in New York, exactly in line with other U.S. cities with populations greater than 1 million, according to FBI figures. They fell in Chicago by just less than three-quarters of 1 percent.
While there's always the chance that the changes are just statistical flukes, two concrete factors appear to be at least partly responsible: money and priorities.
New York's police budget held steady in fiscal 2012, at about $4.6 billion.
Emanuel, facing a $300 million budget deficit, by contrast cut $67 million from the $1.3 billion police budget — a 5 percent reduction that was down from his original proposal to cut police funding by 15 percent.
While Emanuel and Chicago Police Superintendent Garry McCarthy said the cuts would help the police department become more efficient, Jens Ludwig, a criminal justice expert at the University of Chicago, said it was difficult "to think that you could have budget cuts like these and have no impact on crime and other aspects of public life."
Watch US News crime videos on NBCNews.com
"I have been really surprised at how little attention the local and state budget situation has received in discussions about the Chicago violence problem," Ludwig told NBC News on Friday.
The other factor is commitment, Ludwig said.
"New York City seems to be exceptionally focused on getting illegal guns off the street," he said.
Ludwig drew an analogy to prosecution of drunken driving.
At one time, the official attitude was that "if the driver is lucky enough not to hurt anyone, it's no big deal," he said. "But (eventually) we started to realize drunk driving imposes probabilistic harm, and so we started to punish the risky behavior rather than focus on the luck of the draw about whether anyone happened to get hurt.
"New York City has taken that idea seriously for illegal gun carrying, recognizing that illegal guns on the street greatly increase the risk that an argument turns into a murder," he said.
Kelly, the New York police commissioner, stressed that point Friday, saying his officers had taken 8,000 weapons "out of the hands of people we stop, 800 of them illegal handguns."
"We're preventing crimes before someone is killed and before someone else has to go to prison for murder or other serious crimes," he said.
New York City homicides, shootings at modern record lows
Bloomberg made a similar point, singling out what he called the city's renewed commitment to Operation Impact, a 2003 state initiative that pairs new police recruits with veteran officers in specific high-crime areas. The city's participation "reflects our commitment to doing everything possible to stop gun violence," he said.
Left unmentioned was the city's controversial stop-and-frisk policy, which allows officers to search someone as he or she exits a private building if they have a "reasonable suspicion" that the person is likely to commit a crime.
"I think there is some empirical basis to think that all those hundreds and thousands of stops and searches for illegal guns helps keep guns off the street and contributes to a lower homicide rate," Ludwig said.
But the policy is under legal challenge from civil liberties groups, which contend that police use it as a pretext to stop and search people without cause — the great majority of them members of minority groups.
According to an analysis of raw arrest statistics by the nonprofit Center for Constitutional Rights, which opposes the policy, 84 percent of the 686,000 people stopped and searched in 2011 were African-American or Latino. Only 6 percent of the stops resulted in an arrest. And in only 2 percent of stops were illegal weapons or other contraband actually found.
Statistics like that make it worth asking "whether stop and frisk is worth the cost," Ludwig said. "All the stops come disproportionately to young, minority males."
A trial date is set for March. In the meantime, Bloomberg said Friday, New York remains "the safest big city in America."
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Wow...good thing Chicago and the state of Illinois has the strictest gun laws in the nation...at least the law abiding citizens can't shoot anyone. Wake UP! The only people that can carry a loaded gun in Ill are criminals and cops.
What also helps NYC is they have the largest amount of surveillance cams in the country. If you look at their news and newspapers, almost every crime is caught on tape. Chicago would do well to invest in surveillance cams like NYC....the city is installing cams on the transit systems and have caught a lot of criminals, but not to the degree that NYC has.
If Sandy Hook made anything clear it's that we'd all be better off if there were fewer guns in the hands of "law abiding citizens" ( eg Nancy Lanza in that particular case ). How many times do we need to have that point illustrated before people finally get it?
I'm not against reasonable gun rights but that's a rather tired argument. Urban places with among the strictest gun control laws in the country have seen murders plummet - not only NYC but also Washington, DC, so the correlation between loose gun laws and reduced murders just isn't there.
Please remember Sandy Hook was "only" 26 people, what about the other 74 that were killed that day by guns in the rest of the country? 100 every day by guns alone.
AND on those two City stats, how many of those were actually police killings? like the attempted killings by police 9 right outside Empire Building?--I still have seen no story about how many of those police people are in jail--if not we will fall to below Afghanistan standards in the eyes of EU, they can not believe that police shoot 2-3 people dead every day in USA about 15 to 25 more killings by police than real Western countries per million.--That is where we need to focus first, so regular people can get respect for life unlike USA police behaviour.--Then again they never obey the law on anything, that must be why we need the guns for anyone else!--also the original reason to have it in the constitution, since people were afraid of the government.
What a crock of bull crap. Bloomberg is a billionaire with a private police force and bodyguard ALL armed protecting his sorry ass, and the only reason why homocide rates are down is because of hurricaine Sandy which all but froze any kind of crime during the peak homocide season in NYC. Also, ask any NYC cop if homocide is down and gthey will give you an earfull.
Are you reta*rded or something? The NYPD didn't attempt to kill 9 ppl..they're just really bad at shooting their weapons. And this article is about the MURDER rate's between the two cities not gun violence as a whole. Your numbers include suicide, accidental discharge/ shootings... Maybe you should take your argument and go cry to someone who cares a little more than we do...maybe the NRA
Respect for life??? That's a good one. Entertain me, how many abortions were performed yesterday because it would be embarrassing or inconvenient? My view on abortion is irrelevant, it is just a comparison to the hypocrisy of the far left. I for one am glad there is a police force, know quite a few and can say they are better than me or you.-response to bund.
The real reason is Chicago is a dying city that used to be, while New York is still a leader in commerce and culture world wide. Chicago held the main offices of manufacturing giants in the Midwest but when the manufacturing left for China there was no reason to stay in Chicago. The offices are much better off in port cities where their warehouse's are located. All that's left is people too poor to move away.
They need to break down these murders by the number committed by criminals with hand guns and by law abiding citizens with AR's. They could also list the murders by (will catch a lot of flack about this) by race such as white on white, Hispanic on Hispanic, black on black, Asian on Asian and so on. This would also help show where the problem lies.
Oddly enough NBC fails to mention that Illinois is the only state in the union where the law-abiding citizen, under no circumstances, can get a carry permit, thus assuring dangerous street toughs that their victims will be unarmed.
Pharaohhound, et. al.:
Funny you should ask! Luckily for us, this has been documented.
How about some statistics for Chicago, right from the PD?
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/News/Statistical%20Reports/Murder%20Reports/MA11.pdf
Everyone should read this. Take a look at the actual facts.
It's all there. Murders by race (both victims and murderers), month, day, and time of day, weapon used, inside or outside, you name it.
If you draw some conclusions, you'll see that if you're a young black male with a record, outside on a public street, late at night, in July, on a weekend, you're very likely to either shoot someone or be shot with a handgun.
So why is this, exactly?
Note that homicides committed by people with no prior arrests have dropped - while those committed by people with arrest records are rising.
Note that murders committed by stabbing have dropped by more than half since 1991 - with NO CUTLERY CONTROL.
There's a goldmine of information here, and many hard questions to ask. Will anyone tackle them?
thank you pete! All should read the statisics from the link you gave us. Very interesting!
If it's not the surveillance system, it must be Bloomberg's private posse strikes more fear into the criminal element than does Emanuel's police.
Strange, isn't Chicago where once it was said that "Al Capone is the most honest public figure in town"? Couldn't be any continuity toward Rahm and the other community organizer's group of close political friends could there? Too bad Royko isn't still around to write this one.
The city that never sleeps vs The city that puts you to sleep..
Maybe Chicago should take the toll booth off the highway and put it on the sidewalk.
Just wait until the courts, ACLU, and Legal Aid get through with NY stop and frisk policies. Homicides and shootings in NY will be right back through the roof. I'm so glad I retired!
By the way - musician by night. NYS & NYC both has very strict gun laws. Depends on what you are buying. Rifles and shotguns not so hard although you need a permit in NYC. Handguns, extremely hard in NYC, just plain hard in NYS
musician by night as much as I wish the ego in chief was throwing his weight around in Chicago instead with the other non thinkers and greedy people in Washington (hey if I don't do my job I get fired why don't we fire ALL of the backsides of the Ego in Chief, Senators and House of So called Representatives and take away their pensions which would save the nation a fortune) this article is not about liberals or conservatives and remember it was a conservative Dick Cheney who shot his own hunting You want to commit murder you will find a way a mean sick idiot is a mean sick idiot not matter what they have in their hand and what political party they belong to. By they way has anyone polled and found out what political party the most amount of murderers are?
AMENDMENT II
"A well regulated
Militia, being necessary to the security of a Free State, the right of the
people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
*SHALL NOT BE
INFRINGED*…END OF SUBJECT
“TO RESIST TYRANNY IS TO SERVE GOD”
When the Government lays down all their arms....I'll think about
doing the same
WHEN DHS RETURNS ALL 1.6
BILLION HOLLOW POINT BULLETS I'll
think about doing the same
When there is disarmament of
over 100,000 Federal Bureaucrats using unconstitutional powers
I'll think about doing the same
When the police are unarmed
I'll think about doing the same
When the IRS is unarmed
When the TSA is ABOLISHED
When the ATF is abolished
When the DEA is abolished
When the NSA is unarmed and
limited powers
When the EPA is abolished
When the CIA cannot operate on
American soil or against Americans
When the FDA actually works for
the people
When the GOVERNMENT FEARS THE
AMERICAN VOTER AS MUCH AS THE AMERICAN SHOOTER
THEN I WILL THINK ABOUT TURNING
IN MY ARMS! ONLY, THINK ABOUT!
Fuzzy stats. You ever heard of "gentrification". Basically it works like this:
Redevelopment of urban areas with new luxury/upper middle class residences, retail space, and amenities raise the property value of otherwise considered poor areas. This pushes the poor and lower income earners out due to the drastic increase in property values & rent costs. Most of the criminal element is found in the lower tier bracket of income earners. This element is pushed out because they can no longer afford to live in said location. Hence the drastic drop in crime in certain urban areas. It's not strict gun laws, it's the uber rich developers, bankers, and investors coming in and cleaning up shop. Council members, mayors, and police chiefs take credit for this, but they really don't do anything other than receive a paycheck. Mayors and council members approve the zoning, receive the kickbacks, and appoint their favored uniformed officer(s) to protect and serve these new found wealthy areas. Fact...gentrification = lower crime rates.
However I'd like to see the crime rate stats on the outskirts of these new utopias. I'd also like to see which towns, cities, and counties create the scenarios to box lower tier earners in manageable locations. Box'em in and pick'em off, that's how it works. So implementation of strict gun laws aren't really the driver for falling crime rates or shootings, it's the private businesses and investors coming in a kicking people out thru higher prices.
Chicago saw most public housing projects gutted in the Clinton years and all those criminal gang members were displaced into the general population. They are still fighting to establish their turfs. New York City gang turfs have been *set in stone* for several decades now...thus less need for criminals to kill each other.
All you clowns who think more security cameras help lower crime rates....don't have a clue.....cameras just make celebrities out of criminals and help the media to emotionally rape the crime victims.
Musician: NYC does have strict gun laws. DC is right next door to a state with the worst gun laws, VA. So guess what, it is easy for people to carry guns across the river.
Sally in Chicago: Take your cameras and put them up your spot were the sun don't shine!
A gun is essential to self protection, an inalienable right of every human being.
It is virtually impossible for the police to protect us from a mortal threat if only because of the time it takes to respond.
I would never consider living without the ability to defend, protect and preserve my one and only life in the face of danger and, can't even begin to imagine being naive enough, stupid enough, insane enough to expect someone else to do my self defense for me.
What is it like knowing that you are helpless at all times?
How can you even think about living like that?
I agree with you. Some people think that forcing everyone to be defenseless will make a 'safer' place. But it actually makes it less safe because it encourages criminals to commit crime as the victims are never able to defend themselves. Look at the data from Australia and England, their violent crime not utilizing firearms is way up and doubled in the UK. So much for a 'safer' place without firearms.
Some people just want to commit suicide by criminal and they like it that way. They have that right, but don't force me to accept the same fate.
let rahm and bloomberg walk around respective cities at night without their bodyguards see what happens.
Carry concealed peeps. Chicago ain't for the faint of heart--especially with idiots like Rahm Emanuel at the helm.
Under no circumstances do you travel to the west side or south side of Chicago. If Chicago was in a foreign country, the US State Department would have a travel advisory. If you go to Chicago, stay in the Loop or northside.
This crime is all gang related turf war. Even the police keep a low profile in these areas. They go there to pick up the bodies. It isn't uncommon for friends and relatives to know who commited the murders and still not provide any information to the police out of fear of retaliation. Oh...for the record, the majority of murders are committed by semi automatic hand guns, not "assault" rifles. Hard to run down the street with an AR down your pants.
@Brian: If the incident in Norway is any indicator, these things will continue to happen regardless of our gun laws.
Oh my, here we go again: of the the 686,000 people stopped and searched in 2011, 84 percent were African-American or Latino. Well Gee Whiz, they just happen to be the two groups who proportionally commit the highest percentage of violent crimes. Shouldn't that percentage really have have been 90%?
Nevertheless, the violent crime supporting "civil liberties groups" do have a point: the police didn't seem to frisk many white business types or white nuns or even Asian Buddhist monks. Nevertheless, the effort still netted 13720 violators which would have included a significant number of illegal gun carriers and quite likely have prevented many murders. But as the "civil liberties groups" will no doubt argue, some of the the victims would have been white and counting them would also clearly be racist. After all, this is the OBAMA era!!! (www.numinousrationality.com)
You were making a valid point until you mentioned Obama. Now you just sound like the typical idiot who injects Obama into everything. While your at it, explain how Obama is responsible for the New York Jets sucking this year.
whats the need for quotations over civil liberties groups? do you lack english skills. you should love the aclu, they have faught for the rights of the kkk to distribute leaflets, so look they fight for your rights too.
Hmmm, English Skills, eh? Firstly, English sentences start with a capital. Secondly, there is no such word as "faught", although as any fifth grader knows, there is a word "fought". Thirdly, official abbreviations are normally in capitals. As for the quotations - they are perfectly appropriate in this case as "civil liberties groups" have come to include many tribes that are neither civil nor supportive of genuine liberty. The quotes stay. And I'd suggest you use "what's" next time.
I don't get this lovefest for Obama....can somebody explain to me why people are so obsessed over the President....If I read these messgs right, people live breathe sleep Obama and what he's doing.
Sally, I think some people live, breathe, sleep trying to find fault with our President instead of with congress, and the tea party where the blame really lies.
Alot of it is because of people like yourself Grandpa, who soley try to put the blame on one side of the aisle, open your eyes, it is all DC, neither side is better than the other, neither side wants to cross the aisle to the other.
I am a registered Republican, with mostly conservative leanings, though there are some things that I see good on the other, but hey, everyone in DC is out for one thing, and it is not "we the people", it is themselves.
Hey Gramps
I noticed ya had comments for Sally, but failed to answer her question... Why was that? Had to get in your Jab too, Right?
Cletster I sure I am glad we have an English Teacher Monitoring us here on the net... After all, the improper use of the English language could be the down fall of our country.
Also:
Definition of FAUGHT
Scottish variant of fight
The only reason I put the blame on one side of the aisle is because I believe that most of the blame lies there. I have voted Republican and I have voted Democrat in my life, but will not be voting Republican until the group that signed the norquest pledge are gone.
By the way (Times) why would I answer such a ridiculous question?
If Obama really wanted to reduce the proliferation of weapons in this nation he would do us all a favor and super-glue his mouth shut. The week after he was elected in 2008 the nation had the highest gun sales in history. The week after he was elected the 2nd time saw the 2nd highest, and since he has chosen to once again go on the gun-control propaganda bandwagon on the bodies of kids killed in Sandy Hook, he is on track to eclipse his two previous records of encouraging law-abiding Americans to arm and ammo up. If he were an employee of the gun industry he would be the "Salesman of the Century". Because of his rhetoric on Sandy Hook, in local gun stores in Colorado you cannot even find ammunition it's selling so fast. As for "scary guns" like those on Feinsteins "ban" list - they sell the day they arrive. From what I can read, this is happening all over the country. Grandpa - Obama IS to blame, for he has rode the left-wing gun control bull crap cart ever since he was first elected back in Illinois and doesn't give a crap about the second Amendment. Public record for anyone with a brain to research. People like Feinstein, Cuomo, Schummer, AND Obama want one thing and one thing only, to disarm and remove ANY potential threat to big government that the american people some day might want to resist via force of arms. THIS is why we HAVE the 2nd Amendment and this is why the 180 million americans that own 310 million weapons and 4 billion rounds of ammunition have about had it. People would do well to research the slogan of "Don't Tread On Me". Enough said.
Grandpa-2986035
I found not to be 'ridiculous' about her question. She just asked it straight up.
Difference of opinion I guess.
@Grandpa-2986035 Last time I checked, the buck didn't stop with the Tea Party.
Funny how the people proclaim that Obama "won the war on terror" and "single-handedly killed bin Laden", yet when something negative happens they change their tune to "well, Obama doesn't really have control over this."
I never heard anyone say President Obama "single-handedly killed bin Laden". I do know that the Rebublican Pary is so afraid that if they give in to what the American voters voted for and it works that Obama will be a successful President.
The Tea Party is filth...white, men and old...Men love to ruin things...or violate them...or rape them...that is what they are doing right now...disgusting. Why do we just sit and watch complacently? Oh that is right, we are Americans...
Grandpa-2986035
What to know something funny... I am an American and I didn't vote for that...
Also, must be there were other AMERICANS that didn't want that either, After all, the Republicans Maintained control over the House ... You Know... The Purse Strings of the Country.
H3321278
Did you miss your Anger Management Class this week? Nothing like Name calling to cover-up the lack of FACTS. But I must say, you have followed the lib play-book to a "T".
H -
Do you have any proof of your claims?
Although there is proof of things like that with the Occupy 'movement', which has been backed by the likes of Obama, Pelosi, Castro, and communists, the TEA Party even has the common decency to clean up after themselves.
h33...you get the hater of the day award.idiots like you are a big part of the problem with racism in this country.please go crawl back into your mommies womb and stay there!
To Times-Running-Out regarding the archaic Scottish "Faught". Och aye, 'at is true. But Ah didne realise uir scribbler was 'spikin in scottish. He coods hae used th' the other jist as valid an' archaic wuid, "focht", which was a synonym in those times. (www.numinousrationality.com)
did anyone notice that while you are talking about these 2 cities the article notes that all cities with more than a million people had the murder rates drop???? so what does gun control have to do with it????
Not a darned thing Terry. It has to do with budget--and keeping plenty of cops on the streets so criminals don't feel like it's a free-for-all, the way they do in Chicago.
New York and Chicago are both above the national average of 4.8 (for 2010).
OldGreyWolf and CEW, what say we sit on a beach somewhere around Costa Rica and talk about things, I don't agree with everything y'all say, but I will defend to my death your right to say it. (Paraphrasing isn't plagiarism.)
Phoneman, anytime. I think you have the wrong thread though, unless my comments are all screwed up again.
I like debating, I just don't like debating with people who won't compromise. :l
Guns, guns, and more guns... I guess that's the American way. F-ing sick.
Murder is sick.
Guns are tools with multiple uses that the sick and wicked use to accelerate the process of death.
really, what multiple uses of guns are you talking about? im pretty sure their sole reason is to inflict catastrophic injury or death to whatever is shot. do you do yardwork with a gun? probably not, tools for that are shovels, rakes lawnmowers etc. do you fix a sink with a gun? i would hope not, proper tools would include various wrenches and probably plummers tape. now if you want to kill something the easiest method is a gun, if fact, outside of target practice, what is a gun used for? it is a tool of death, plain and simple.
I competition shoot for fun and prizes. I sell guns and make a profit. I customize guns as a hobby. I machine a lot of my own parts for my guns to cut costs as well as make them for others for replacement pieces.
What was it you said? "It is a tool of death, plain and simple." Well without guns I wouldn't have made a proper business for myself, taken a cruise with my wife, and purchased a cabin in Montana this year. All this and I'm only 25, imagine that!
Now what can I do with a wrench? I could sell it, polish it, bludgeon someone to death with it, or tighten/fasten something with it. While not the ideal tool, I could use a gun to tighten/fasten things. I could also polish my gun, bludgeon someone with it, and sell it. While not the ideal tool, I suppose I could throw a wrench at targets.
I didn't realize that piece of paper I shoot during contests was inflicted with catastrophic injury and death. I'll try to be more careful next time!
The fact that people make money with guns is not news and not particularly compelling. People also make a living dealing drugs, robbing banks, killing people etc.. The question is whether society benefits from these activities. The same goes for the hobby argument. My hobby is enriching uranium. If I can give that up for the greater good, so can you. Take up golf.
LetsGoBlue is a good example of a polarized group of citizens all for banning guns. I would suspect that guns don't play a positive role in their life and the majority of the information they obtain on guns may come from news sources, TV, movies and friends and family that have similar life experiences. In this cases it does make sense to say ban all guns and life will be better.
The Americans who do not own guns may not see the positive impact that guns make in our country. Yes, guns enable people to kill other people, but their other uses play a positive role in both a law-abiding persons life and the economy of the US.
A good point at 4.5, Brian, but the biggest problems are that these illegal activities make fast, easy, mountains of money. Like with drugs, we waited until we disassembled the small ship in the bottle, took it out, and turned it into a navy cutter. Now people are saying they want the ship back in the bottle but like with drugs, no law will stop it, the ship simply will not fit back into the bottle.
So what do we do? We tear the ship down to size again, but their is a problem. There is an angry, tired crew against tearing down their pride and joy (freedom) just because the captain (govt.) and his loyalists say it must fit back in (law and political opinion). The crew will mutiny, and fight for control of the ship.
An alternative is that we could slowly and carefully disassemble the ship from within, not showing the crew up top (slowly passing tighter control), and then asking their weapons be placed on certain racks, polished, ready for use, but not readily available enough for immediate action. Then, the loyalists seize the weapons before the crew knows what happens, the loyalists now have the swords and muskets and take control of the ship, disassemble it, and put it back into the bottle.
The biggest question is, what if we spring a leak while disassembling from within? Plug the hole (Fast and Furious), what happens if the plug fails? The ship takes on water and the crew up top will surely know what the captain has been planning, likely causing mutiny (civil war) and plans to build a new ship.
OldGreyWolf
With Age comes Wisdom and
I really like the way you explained that.
brian, if your hobby is truly enriching uranium and you're not trying to be funny, then you are breaking many federal state and local laws. I, by shooting at paper, are breaking none of the above.
Thanks, Times-Running-Out, I hope to live long enough to see a better future for the US and the world.
That is, if I don't turn into a senile old fart first.
"I'm so old, they cancelled my blood type!"
OldGreyWolf --
Which is it? Are you "only 25" (#4.3) or are you "so old, they cancelled my blood type"?
People can bitch about guns, no guns, gun control, no gun control, or whatever all they want. But the real debate is not about keeping guns out of criminals' hands... you can't. It's not about keeping the mentally unstable form getting them... hell, we won't even allow for a system to treat them, much less ensure they are not a danger. The debate is completely about allowing someone in their home to have access to a gun for target shooting and hunting, and the fire power they need when the worst happens. Be it a lunatic on the street with a gun, knife, or baseball bat, a home invasion by a local gang, or simply another burglary where witnesses will not be left behind, I am not going to be some police department statistic because someone else decided it would be better for me and my family to die than for them to have to live next to someone who ownes a gun.
You want to know why twenty some people were killed in a school last week, why 500 more died in Chicago, why 414 more have been killed in NY, and why people around this country will continue to be killed? It's not that hard to figure out. It's because our society sucks and real parenting took a backseat a long time ago.
We've allowed our schools to become mind-numbing institutions of conformity rather than the beacons of thought, questions, and reasoning they should be, all the while allowing our children to be drugged to the point of psychosis to accommodate those incapable of dealing with overly active behaviors, no matter how innocent, never once as a nation questioning the possible impacts or the motives of those advocating this practice.
We've stood by while elected and appointed officials provided arms to ruthless criminal elements and brutal dictators, virtually ignoring the horrendous impacts, and never once calling for a true accounting from those responsible.
We've allowed commonsensical thinking and personal responsibility to be supplanted by a culture of finger pointing and blame based on irrational concepts, because we're unwilling as a whole to look inward where problems truly begin.
To be sure, the past weeks have been of sorrow and horrific loss, both in life and innocence. But we need not race to cast blame where it's not deserved, nor punish those who've committed no wrong doing. So long as we are willing to trade truth for fiction, reason for passion, and morality for popularity without fear of consequence, dishonoring the efforts of our ancestors and the character they exemplified while clinging to the vain hope our worlds will be transformed by the charisma and words of our idols instead of our own deeds, we will progress no further as a people. We'll remain the spiteful, callous and ignorant nation we've become, and the events of the past weeks will be but one more stepping stone toward our own destruction, and possible subjugation.
Rights are not to be voted on, personal responsibility is not a just a catchy cliché, and our futures as well as those of our children begin here, in the now, relying upon our deeds alone. It actually is true that guns don't kill people anymore than knives, bats, and pipe bombs do. People kill people... always have and always will, and the only thing that will ever prevent that is our own good behavior, or our destruction. Pick one.
COinFL, maybe you should read posts more carefully. I obviously stated that I hope to live long. And yes I'm 25, 'Ol Grey Wolf was my nickname in the army because I'm albino with silver hair and I was pretty much the only one in my squad that didn't have the whole "IMA GO KEEL ME SOME TALEEBANS" mentality.
Good post by CEW-1678197 above. The third paragraph reminds me of the people that say "PUT GOD BACK IN THE SCHOOLS, THIS IS YOUR PUNISHMENT." Now while I agree that these people are missing a few marbles, they have a point. I was in a school that went from through separation of all signs of religion from schools.
Something the schools DID have with religion in schools was they were being taught morals. When everyone flipped and demanded religion be pulled, they said they didn't need religion to teach their kids morals. Unfortunately, they forgot to implement their morals into schools altogether across the country. Now we have drones sitting in boring classrooms that used to be our children until we have to changed the way they think with certain medicines to like these empty walls. That is control, as we've seen with drugs, guns, and government, humans naturally resist control. What happens when the control changes the way they think without changing them to OUR likings? Things like Sandy Hook happen, OR they just get locked up in psyche wards forever.
Mrs Smith: Here Sally, point out the adverbs in this sentence.
Sally: I'm sorry Mrs. Smith, but I don;t see why we're learning this.
Mrs Smith: You'll need this later in life.
Sally: Name all of the jobs that require me to point out adverbs other than a teaching position.
Mrs Smith is angry that Sally is not compliant, she recommends counseling for her "outbursts" in class and is eventually put on ADHD medication to change the way she thinks and make her more quiet, agreeable, and compliant, ruining her image among her friends and sending her life spiraling downhill. On the day Sally feels like killing herself, she decides rather to act upon those that she thought condemned her and made her life miserable, leading to a rampage that leaves 4 of her classmates, and 2 of her teachers dead, and then finally killing herself.
CEW-1678197 - The best long comment I have read for a long while.
I think it is strange that the concept of personal responsibility has so diminished in the general citizenry of the United States. People demand protection from the Government, not realizing that our Founding Fathers wanted us to take most of that responsibility for ourselves. Yes, a "well-regulated militia", but just as much so "the right of the people".
And when the people have a right, they also have a responsibility.
Several people have criticized the mother of Adam Lanza, and they are right to do so. As a lawful firearms owner, Nancy Lanza should have been especially careful to take measures to prevent those dangerous weapons from getting into the hands of her mentally unstable son. She should have had them locked away at all times. If she needed them to protect her home, then she should have carried a firearm on her person, or had it quickly available via an electronic or biometric/electronic gun safe.
Hopefully all gun owners will learn from her tragic mistake.
CEW... you are a gentleman and a scholar, and I deeply appreciate you posting that. I couldn't agree more with you. We do have the tools to help from these things getting into people's hands... but it won't always stop them. They will find a way. Drugs are just as illegal, and so many people do them that it's jaw dropping. Is it the culture? Maybe. Is it a need? Definitely. Have we found out yet why people feel they NEED drugs? It's most likely an inability to deal with life, so they delude themselves away from it. Recreational, until it becomes a habit, a need. Supposedly, they give good feelings when you don't have them.
We'll never be able to medicate life to be better. We won't take responsibility for our actions, it's always someone else's fault when we do something. In the case of Nancy, why the heck aren't we casting ALL the blame on her son? He made a conscious decision to go out and kill people, even his own mother, with a gun. I know people with really bad anger issues, yet they haven't killed anyone. There's a thing called self-control, he didn't have it, and now people are mourning because of it.
I honestly want to say it's about our sex hating, violence gobbling culture. Where you can go watch Jason butcher people with a machete and it's all good fun, but heaven help you if anyone sees you looking at porn. Then again, this would just take away from the blame of the guilty parties. I still think our society could be less about violence, and more about love. Our media continually drives in the idea that everything can be solved with a quick gunshot, when it's never, ever that simple, and usually it just makes things worse.
As a former teacher. all I can say is THIS! A THOUSAND TIMES THIS!!!!
I used to get so pissed off when kids would "act out" aka question the teachers and this would be the teacher's reaction (hence the reason I'm a former teacher) It was even worse in my special education classes. Making children into "good little zombies" is the worst thing we can do.
CEW right on should be published in all papers and read in both senate and house. The only thing could add is the politicians haven't figured out is how much tax money they will lose if nobody bought guns and ammo,if all sportsmen (fishermen included)stopped buying gear,there would be a drastic drop in revenue. NObody has brought that up yet. It will be in millions
It is funny how people like the ACLU do not look at the results such as lower crime and lower homicide rates, they simply look at the race people frisked. I thought we should all be color blind and not see race but here the ACLU is, pointing out everyones race making sure we all feel nice and divided between an US and THEM.
European men and women need to start having more children.
well that solves it. lets arm everybody and return to the wild west. all disputes will be decided with a shootout. then and only then will we truly be safe... morons.
does anyone think that maybe a deeper issue here is unemployment, underfunded education or poverty rate? people are feeling desperate. do you think a person with a good education and job prospects would chose the life of the streets? of course some will, but if we focus on education, job training and assistance to the poor people might feel like there is a light at the end of the tunnel with the oppertunity of a well paying job. gun confiscation isnt the answer, clip limits, assault weapons bans are a start but also arent the end all answer. it needs to be a balanced approach with emphasis on education, the economy, mental healthcare and responsible gun laws
Number of guns and gun owners in USA.
Most estimates range between 39% and 50% of US households having at least one gun (that's about 43-55 million households). The estimates for the number of privately owned guns range from 190 million to 300 million. Removed those that skew the stats for their own purposes the best estimates are about 45% or 52 million of American households owning 260 million guns).
Some recent estimates:
By your logic, we should be worse than Syria right now!
Absolutely not. We throw more money at these problems then most other countries combined. We basically hand people the fish instead of teaching them how to, the next day they're standing around waiting for you to give them their fish.
NoMoreTax answered your gun theory so thankfully I don't have to get into that, cause I'm tired of saying the same thing and having it fall on deaf ears.
If you think that the issues that Chicago are facing are isolated, you are sadly mistaken. Further, in time it will be spreading to a neighborhood near you!!! This phenomenon is not just about gun laws, poorly funded schools, poverty and all those other liberal talking points. The problem is about the entitlement mentality that has been passed down from generation to generation. When you have a group of people living together that have no interest or investment in the good of the neighborhood, community, city, state and country this is what you get: savagery!!!! When you increase this number, e.g., the high unemployment rate, the increase in people on permanent disability, the increase in folks on food stamps, this mentality will soon spread to neighborhoods one would not expect such behavior to be displayed in. The Occupiers showed this country a glimpse of what happens when a bunch of people congregate and just "hang out", the ghetto life, you might say. Once again, the crime, the lack of unity, the entitlement mentality is making this country not third world, but one big ghetto!!! Because of this, the government will have to kill me to get my guns away from me! God bless America!!!!
One answer is to stop government support of freeloaders. It's amazing what an honest day's work does for character building and self-esteem, much less your bank account.
@Letsgoblues-If you would have left the venom out of your post, it would have been much more effective.
The "stop and frisk policy" has been very successful in protecting scum from killing each other. That's the only negative I can see. If it protected one innocent from being harmed I support it. They need to ratchet it up a notch......when stopped and frisked and found to be carrying an illegal weapon you are gone for 10 years min.
I'm not real big on this whole stop and frisk thing, the likelihood of it being me that it's happening to is pretty damn small as I'm a white female, but if I don't stand up and say hey that's not right for the "them" that it's happening to who's going to be there for me when it DOES become "my turn"?
I can see where you're coming from believe me, but is it only because it's happening to "them" and not "us"? (Though to be truthful I can only go by what I'm seeing here, that it's mostly black/latino males that are getting the frisking)
Interesting article. The most important consideration are the outcomes. Why is NYC decreasing its homicide rate to historic lows and Chicago seeing an uptick in murders?
They talk about the stop and frisk policy literally taking guns away from people. What we don't know is how many people choose not to carry a weapon for fear that they will be searched and have it taken away.
New York City now has some of the strictest gun control laws in the nation. Most permits to own a gun only allow you to keep it in your home. They do not allow you to carry it on the street.
I think the ACLU is in the wrong to challenge a law that is improving public safety. Other than embarrassment and a few minutes of time, what is the cost of someone being stopped and frisked?
Civil liberties per the 4th Amendment.
If they'll do it for you, they'll do it TO you. Will it stop being okay then?
There are ALWAYS people willing to give away our rights in the name of 'freedom and protection'...
I wish reading "It Can't Happen Here by Sinclare Lewis" was mandatory reading for all people registering to vote.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here -
'Second City' my ass!
This is the same old song and dance! "If we could only spend more money on education, housing, healthcare, and social programs, all of these problems will go away!"
The problem in Chicago resides in the african-american and latino communities with high single mother (illegitimacy rates) in these communities. There is no father in the home, ergo: high crime rates!
All the money in the world isn't going to fix this problem!
Put prayer and religion back in the school-room; deny single mom's from recieving welfare benefits, and call out the national guard for the immediate period. Homicides will decrease.
During the sixties, you wanted your free love and now you know that nothing is free. Liberalism creates problems and conservetism must solve the problems.
Also, STOP VOTING FOR ABORTION LOVING PRESIDENTS LIKE OBAMA! When life becomes cheap inutero, the rest of the lifespan is soon to follow!
This is going to sound so "liberal" of me. So even though we didn't help birth these babies we should allow them to starve on the streets? I agree that we need to curtail generational welfare and put limits on how much a person gets (having more doesn't give you more money) cutting them off completely isn't a good thing. Maybe we should consider being more agressive at going after the sperm donors for the owed child support? Remember she didn't get pregnant all by herself. This is on white people too not just blacks and latinos.
Wow, your picture sure does kind of go along with your brain and the things coming out of it.
If these woman would not drop their pants and be held accountable just like the men ,no its always the mans fault.After 2 kids its time for mandatory tube tying and for the guy its a snip job,that would stop all this nonsense of the free ride.Next hang the the judge that says you cant do that!
I'm not blaming men, I'm blaming BOTH sexes, I agree if you can't feed them don't breed them. BUT there are times when something happens and people do need help, but it should be short term help not a lifestyle.
You just hit the nail squarely on the head!!! Congratulations
Another first for Chicago. Keep up the good work Rahm, run it into the ground. I'm sure the shoppers and business men of Chicago like the new parking meter charges of $6.75 an hour. Chicago has a long history of corruption and murder. Why stop the trend now?
WHY is Chicago's murder rate higher? Simple. The people of Chicago (and I'm one of them) allow murders to be concentrated in two very specific neighboorhoods. We let the gangbangers shoot and kill each other, while the majority of the city remains unconcerned about their problem. This is truely NIMBY at its worst, or best, depending on what side of the viaduct you live on. Take a look at crime in the Jefferson Park district....one murder 3 years ago.
Sir, why not give us a little more detail about the people in the two neighborhoods you speak of. Perhaps a little sunshine may entice them into acting a wee bit more like human beings.
Showshanda: That will never happen, you can take the animal out of the wild but you will never take the wild out of the animal.Chicago is full of wild animals, are you going to cage them all??????
Forget Chik Filet and their hateful opinions. These are the morals that Rahm wants for Chicago.
The leadership in Chicago is really corrupt and no one there inspires you to be law abiding - they show their citizenry time and time again - that fast money, fast cars and fast women are not coming to you if you lead a character based life - That city has gotten so bad - that presidential historians are wondering to this day - what Obama had to do to get elected - it has cast a shadow over his presidency and left people wondering if he played ball.....
That's how bad they have become - there seems to be no desire to change among them - it's almost like they walk around and shrug - "what would be in it for me?" They run on the philosophical outlook of Mexico City - "you ain't gonna get nothin by behavin."
It's nice that NYC has the lowest murder rate ever recorded. But, the little shrimpy narcissist that you elected Mayor is very, very annoying.
I wonder if the banning of the Big Gulp has anything to do with this?
"686,000 people stopped and searched in 2011...And in only 2 percent of stops were illegal weapons or other contraband actually found."
That's over 13,700 illegal weapons or contraband...I'd call that a win!
We need this in Chicago since crime is disproportionately concentrated to particular parts of the city-the chance of a positive stop is higher.
Did you not read the article, the total amount of illegal weapons seized was 800. A far cry from the 13,700 you present in your response. Next time, try to maintain focus on what is written without clouding the strory with your personal viewpoint.
I said weapons OR contraband. Contraband also contributes to crime
Chicago --- The vision Obama has for this Nation!
Mindless comments, the vision that NC Vet has of other Americans.
Poor Willie, The truth is hard to accept, Facts are that Crime and corruption, murder and rape are all higher in the Liberally run cities. Liberalism breed crime
It shows with Obama,he can't understand the word ILLEGAL !
On Sunday, 2 days after the CT shooting, a man went to a restaurant in San Antonio to kill his X-girlfriend. After he shot her, most of the people in the restaurant fled next door to a theater. The gunman followed them and entered the theater so he could shoot more people. He started shooting and people in the theater started running and screaming. It's like the Aurora, CO theater story plus a restaurant! Now aren't you wondering why this isn't a lead story in the national media along with the school shooting? There was an off duty county deputy at the theater. SHE pulled out her gun and shot the man 4 times before he had a chance to kill anyone. So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened. Only the local media covered it. The city is giving her a medal next week. Just thought you'd like to know.
Your point is an off duty (trained Police Officer) stopped a crime, or that the media didn't cover it.
Nice post Larry. I understand why the Left leaning media doesn't report on the postives of self-defense (doesn't make their point) though I sure wish they would.
When Obama and others who say they are looking for 'honest dialogue' don't bring up these types of heroics and positive reasons for carring a weapon, then I find their requests for 'honest dialogue' fake and their only reasons to discuss are to push their agenda and gun control.
As for Chicago, gun control hasn't helped them a bit. If 90% of the murders are caused by 'minorities' then 90% of minorities should be the ones being searched. The 'minority' leaders should be requesting it occur, but sadly they never will.
Try to keep up Grandpa, "So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened". Does that clear it up for you?
This will be hard for you, pay attention, my point was that it wasn't some cowboy with a gun that stopped the crime it was a trained Police Officer. By the way insulting me is not a good way to prove your point.
Grandpa, your point is taken. Though I am also a trained and responsible gun owner (not a 'cowboy' as you have now indirectly insulted me and millions of other gun owners also) who would carry more if there were not the 'laws' preventing me from carring in areas where un-trained non-abiding persons will carry guns in to. Many gun owners that carry know how to shoot well and practice routinely. I have no issue at all with making someone take at training class to carry a concealed firearm - though anti-gun laws don't stop bad guys.
The discussion to place armed 'trained' security at schools is already done at many private schools. I would suggest Granpa that your grandkids are just as important as the kids that go to these private schools.
Again I am not talking about trained gun owners. I am talking about irresponsible gun owners. By the way I own guns too, but I don't think I am qualified for law enforcement.
I don't believe you need to be a qualified law enforcement agent to protect yourself (and those around you) with a gun. I believe for the pure act of self-defense of yourself and others - practice and knowledge allow one to be a responsible gun owner and carry a weapon.
As for the irresponsible gun owners and bad guys with guns - again - it is the reason one needs to be able exersize their second amendment rights, carry a weapon and protect themselves.
Grandpa-2986035... if you feel you're not qualified to respond in a crisis utilizing a firearm... no worries. There's nothing wrong with that. But many of us are, even though we're not law enforcement officers. Many of us are soldiers with years of training... many others are just that damn good. We're not "cowboys." Hell, most of us don't even own a saddle. We just know there's a lot of evil out there, and we're not about to become someone elses victim, or standby and watch it happen to others if it can be helped.
larry-2037452 posted an interesting point, especially given what took place last week, and what was apparently about to happen in that theater. Clearly, the gunman didn't follow those running from the scene of the shooting and into the theater to buy popcorn and a large Coke. Had the off-duty officer not been in the theater, there's no doubt that what was about to happen would have made the national airwaves, and we'd be hearing about it for weeks as one more reason to ban the guns.
As to who shot the gunman, why would an off-duty officer make it any less newsworthy? A lunatic walks into a restaurant, shoots one person, and then goes after others trying to escape in order to kill them... taken out by an armed citizen before he gets the chance. It could just as well have been Jed Clampett, but Elly May got her gun up first, and she wasn't just there to watch a movie, she was about to become one more victim. What was about to end in a horrific loss ended instead with a heart-broken and distraught wanna-be-serial killer stopped cold when an armed citizen decided not to be a victim. Now that's a story worth telling... "I don't care who you are." ;-)
Grandpa, if he hadn't have been killed by that hero, the whole focus of the story would have been about the gun. The gun she used was possibly the same caliber and make the perp had but what she did made the weapon of choice good instead of evil. Can you see where I'm going here?
Too!! funny. We must blame Obama becuse he came from Illinois.
Ever seen the cost of housing in New York ? I am sure this has nothing to do with basic economics ?
Romney was born in Michigan. I guess no one figured out how bad Detroit's crime problem was ?
Of course not it was not on the agenda. Chicago has a lower murder rate than many large cities in the US.
They just have more people so the murders are amplified. Every major city in the U.S. has a major crime problem it is not just Chicago. St Louis, Birmingham, Atlanta,Minneapolis, Oakland,Compton, Gary,Indiana.
New Orleans, Houston Etc. etc. I have no clue what the average weapon costs now ? I am sure it would go a long way to put food on the table in many households. I am sure all of these people come out of the wombs and the first thing they say is I want to be poor. They live in a kill or be killed environment.
The only real education they get is on the street. Then they get sent to prison and learn better ways to avoid capture. Once you commit a felony you are labeled for life and have little chance to succeed.
I guess it is the same as all the gun hype for profit. Make sure the Black people are incarcerated and uneducated. That way they won't interfere with the white collar criminals who get away with murder every day. It is pretty sad when the biggest white collar criminal of the century gets life in prison. which he deserved . But, a man who beats his 90 year old grandmother to death with a hammer and gets let out of prison to kill again. And even manages to buy weapons to do it.
Of course when you live in a protective bubble. It is always someone else's fault.
The ATF does background checks on guns that are sold legally. There is no way they can check on every private sale. They just do not have the resources. It is up to the responsible gun owners to do that.
Rather odd coincidence the whack job that killed his Grandmother aquired guns shortly after they were reported stolen in the area. I don't own or sell guns. I guess it would be fairly easy to sell guns at a big profit and report them stolen.
"Chicago has a lower murder rate than many large cities in the US."
No, it does not,Chicago had THE HIGHEST rate of gun crimes/violent crimes/murders of ANY city in the U.S. last year.
Here's a few questions regarding the killings in Chicago....who is killing whom? Why? What are the citizens of Chicago doing about it?
There's a major gang war going on. Only in certain areas of the city "bad areas" are shootings going on the most. Citizens are staying out of those neighborhoods and always have for the most part.
Chris:
Have a look. It's been documented who is doing the killing:
https://portal.chicagopolice.org/portal/page/portal/ClearPath/News/Statistical%20Reports/Murder%20Reports/MA11.pdf
Check the website pete informed us with on his comments. Very informative.
@Rob99 --- Looks as if members of the Chicago PD are among the citizens staying out of those neighborhoods.
just you classic left wing garden spot, super high taxes and regs, they are broke with super high poverty and of course the murder capital of america.
New York has tactical cops loaded for anything because of the terror attacks.Chicago has alot of decent people that are left to fend for themselves.Alwayes scary for a person from suburban Wisconsin to go there.I do not know the answer to the murder problem,but one drive around the city and you can see why.
@outfront -- Chicago has a lot of "decent unarmed people" left to fend for themselves.
Don't buy that "if we had more money" crap
Aside from these shootings, overall crime in the city is down and has been falling for many years.
The CPD likes to use this to boost their union and wage power any chance they get. It's a scam.
@Rob99 --- Chicago police officers and school teachers have two things in common, (1) good pay and (2) poor results. Must be a union thing I guess.
Wow! News flash! Guns provided to Psycho who killed his 90 year old Grandmother and killed again
were bought legally and sold to a convicted murderer illegally. I am sure that never happens ?
Most of the murders in Chicago are done with illegal weapons. Where do they get them ?
Left wing, Right wing ,Chicken wing . Liberal ,Conseravtive,Democrat ,Republican.
Get out from underneath your rock and come up with some new material.
Most people are more concerned about the safety of their children than taking away your "Red Dawn"
right to own a weapon based on a law that was primarily put in place due British rule.
When they made the law they never envisioned the power of weapons today. They had single shot muskets.
My wife's brother owns guns and they were stolen and recovered and the first thing he did was buy a gun locker.
Cool story bro, tell it again.
Your point John being that certain firearms or perhaps all firearms should be taken away from the people? I'm really not quite sure on the point. But let's talk about the founding fathers and the 2nd Amendment:
The purpose of the 2nd Amendment was not a "Red Dawn" senario. If one reads the various letters and writings of the men who wrote the Constitution, it was not foreign invasion they were concerned with rather the rise of a dictatorial or tyranical form of government in our own country such as the Nazis taking power from what was a Republic.
As for the concept of muskets. These were very intellegent men. Can you believe for one moment that they did not understand that weapon technology would advance over hundreds of years? These men had seen the demise of the bow and armor with the development of firearms. Do you think they thought that it would end there?
Our founding fathers put the 2nd Amendment into the Constitution as a protection for the FUTURE of this nation and to secure a free future for its citizens. The day we surrender all our firearms to the government authorities is the day we become a slave nation.
Last note, the safety of our children can be achieved with the PROPER use of firearms. Armed, trained officers whether sworn police or trained posse in the schools will go a long way to assuring the safety of our children. Banning so called "assault weapons" will do nothing. It is as you yourself have said most of these killings are being done with illlegal firearms.
John From The former USA
When they made the law they never envisioned the power of weapons today. They had single shot muskets.
Which were the cutting edge "assault rifle" technology of thier day. Our founding fathers were very intelligent individuals, inventors among many other things. This is the beauty in the wording of the 2nd amendment, it is very clear. It doesn't list a specific type of weapon not because they couldn't imagine technology would advance, it didn't list specifics because they knew it would.
By your logic, the 1st amendment is way beyond it's orginal intention because our founding fathers had no way to forsee the internet, which allows the distribution of your opinion well beyond the voice or manually distributed printed piece of paper.
“TO RESIST TYRANNY IS TO SERVE GOD”
When the Government lays down all their arms....I'll think about
doing the same
WHEN DHS RETURNS ALL 1.6
BILLION HOLLOW POINT BULLETS I'll
think about doing the same
When there is disarmament of
over 100,000 Federal Bureaucrats using unconstitutional powers
I'll think about doing the same
When the police are unarmed
I'll think about doing the same
When the IRS is unarmed
When the TSA is ABOLISHED
When the ATF is abolished
When the DEA is abolished
When the NSA is unarmed and
limited powers
When the EPA is abolished
When the CIA cannot operate on
American soil or against Americans
When the FDA actually works for
the people
When the GOVERNMENT FEARS THE
AMERICAN VOTER AS MUCH AS THE AMERICAN SHOOTER
THEN I WILL THINK ABOUT TURNING
IN MY ARMS! ONLY, THINK ABOUT!
John From The former USA
The Americans did have muskets during the Revolution. What you failed to mention was the fact that they also had a lot of what were known as "Kentucky Long Rifles" ( an American invention) which were far superior in range and accuracy to anything the British had. A combination of those same rifles and using the (at the time) novel concept of what is now known as guerrilla warfare contributed in large part to the colonies eventual victory.
Actually John, the "Red Dawn" right, as you call it, was put into effect by our Government after the British left. And to presume our foundingfathers "never envisioned the power of weapons today" is akin to saying they didn't know the difference between an English longbow and a 6-pound fieldpiece, and were incapable of grasping the concept that science and technology could ever enhance the weapons of war... which obviously they did know. Cannon became more powerful, flintlocks were replaced by percussion caps, smooth bores were replaced with rifled bores, all to improve reliability, accuracy and lethality.
They knew quite a bit more than you're aware of, including what happens to a society when a government turns against its citizens; taxation without representation, confiscation of private property without warrant, suppression of free speech, government corruption, and even imprisonment for an indefinite period absent any crime and based solely on the King's say so. Which reminds me, have you ever read the Patriot Act?
Granted, you'd probably be correct in assuming they'd never have concieved of our current nuclear arsenals, though they were aware of the effects of some chemical agents and biological vectors. And there may have been some discussions about the threat of British forces over the horizon... your "Red Dawn" scenario. But the right to bear arms had much more to do with personal protection; from evil people and corrupt brutal government.
the news is saying "Tale of two cities: Homicides plummet in New York, leap in Chicago".
This means if you are rich or have above average income, then you will not get rob in Chicago, you maybe target of assassins. Know ye enemy is all. Psst. don't forget your gun for protection, you know?
This also means if you are rich or have above average income, then you will get rob robin-hood style in New York City. Either way, your future retirement outlook is slim to poverty. Don't worry about assassins because gun violence is down. Visit ye local fortune teller is all.
Hey jujubefruit... "Poverty" is not a permanent situation. People move in and out of poverty all of the time. And the wealthy of today are not necessarilly the wealthy of tomorrow. Our economic system allows opportunity for everyone. Public libraries are free, the internet is affordable, and anyone who wants to learn can. Unfortunately our countries liberal social programs result in many people choosing to accept a trivial government handout for living in a crime infested area. Moreover the crime infested areas are a result of the government providing trivial welfare benefits while removing any father figure as a role model and thereby creating more dependents unable to care for themselves.
georginafranklin2, you know, you be bro fer hooking me up and that. $4356 is big money and yo' friend just mighty fine fella sharing their friends stories and all. but yo, plain six month for $4.3k is worst then doing time. Mc'Ds paying 8$ fer one hour and six months is like $8000!!!!
WorldOfMorons, life cycles in and out all the time. Awareness and not awaken is not perception until perceive for prediction for profit motive. This is when everything hits all at once, before words have their definitions to use in communication. Think b for business and find your profit when you perceive.