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Subscribe to RSSThe images out of Washington state toward the end of 2012 — all-night parties celebrating legalized pot and same-sex marriage — sparked hope among liberal activists that the tide has turned on these two issues.
Even though national polls show more openness to pot and gay marriage nationwide, it raised the question — why Washington?
Oregon, the state’s blue neighbor to the south, has not successfully mounted campaigns to approve pot or same-sex marriage. California has had a messy relationship with both issues, and Idaho swings solidly right.
There are a number of unique factors that made Washington ripe for these liberal reforms, experts say.
"There’s a libertarian streak in Washington, and there are more atheists. Religion is part of this," University of Washington Professor John Findlay told NBC News. The state is one of the least religious, with only about half of Washingtonians telling the Gallup poll in 2008 that religion plays a part in their daily lives.
Beyond pot and same-sex marriage, Washington also allows physician-assisted suicide (as do Oregon and Montana) and was one of four states that decriminalized abortion before Roe v. Wade in 1971. To top off its liberal cred: A Democrat has been in the governor's office since 1980 — longer than any other state.
Cliff Despeaux / Reuters
Washingtonians light up near the Space Needle in Seattle after the law legalizing the recreational use of marijuana went into effect in the state.
But to describe Washington as a purely liberal state is to oversimplify its politics. Outside of the Puget Sound area, Washingtonians have more in common with Red State residents than they do coffee-craving Seattleites.
"Without Seattle, we’d be Idaho," says pollster H. Stuart Elway. Seattle-area voters accounted for one-third of the state total.
Washington has no income tax, and the possibility of implementing one is rarely mentioned, even during tough economic times; in 1998, voters nixed affirmative action; two years later, they approved $30 license plate tab renewals, a dramatic fee reduction that cut into city and state coffers, hiking up bus fares and leaving potholes unfilled.
What ties all these measures together, beyond a "live and let live" ethos, is the state's initiative and referendum process, which gives voters, not lawmakers, the power to set policy much more directly than in other states.
Findlay says the initiative process can be traced back to the state’s early days, when Washingtonians, buoyed by the progressive and populist movements, didn't trust their politicians. While politicians in most other states manage what goes on the ballot, Washingtonians can pay $5 to submit an initiative or referendum. Get 241,153 valid signatures (120,557 for a referendum) and that measure is inked on the ballot.
"There’s a legacy of distrust of the Legislature stemming from 100 years ago that has continued to shape politics for more than a century," Findlay said.
Although 24 states and the District of Columbia have an initiative process, it has been most used by the Western states, particularly California, Oregon and Washington, making them laboratories for special interest groups.
Take marijuana, for example, where outside money was a big part of the campaign. Drug Policy Action in New York fronted $1.6 million; Progressive Insurance CEO Peter Lewis, who supports drug reform and lives in Ohio, donated about $2 million.
Elaine Thompson / AP
King County Executive Dow Constantine, right, embraces Pete-e Petersen as her partner, Jane Abbott Lighty, watches after Constantine issued the the county's first marriage license to a same-sex couple. On the night that same-sex marriage became legal in Washington state, many of the state's issued marriage licenses beginning at midnight.
Given their success in Washington and Colorado, Drug Policy Action is looking to push similar campaigns in California and Oregon in 2014 or 2016. Both states have legalized medical marijuana and in California, medical pot has becoming a booming business since it was approved in 1996. A 2007 federal study estimated that Californians consume one million pounds of pot a year.
"We have these results in Colorado and Washington under our belt, so that sort of fertilizes the ground," Dale Gieringer, who heads the California office of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, told Reuters.
Outside money also played a role in the battle over gay marriage, but so too did some Washington billionaires, including Bill Gates, co-founder of Microsoft, and Jeff Bezos, founder of Amazon, who collectively gave more than $3 million to the campaign to approve same-sex marriage.
"The populist and progressive movements are over, and the feelings are over, but there’s this tool," Findlay said. "A lot of us complain about those things, but it doesn't matter, because it’s going to shape politics in this state. This is the tool we have that most other states don’t have. It’s part of how we do things here. And it doesn't work exclusively for progressives or conservatives."
Other reasons floated for the state’s unique positions on issues: Unions have long had a stronghold in the state, as have female politicians -- the state was home to Dixie Lee Ray, the fiery former governor whose motto during her 1976 campaign was “Little lady takes on big boys.”
But, as Elway noted, Washington’s votes often come down to the Seattle area. Elsewhere on Election Day, conservative Washingtonians watch in dismay as their leads are turned upside down as results from the metropolitan area trickle in.
State Republican Party Chairman Kirby Wilbur told the Seattle Times that the votes speak for themselves.
"Washington has always been a socially liberal and economically conservative state," he said.
To be fair, Washington may not be so far ahead of the rest of the country on social issues such as pot and same-sex marriage, according to Mark Smith, who teaches political science at the University of Washington.
Smith noted that 53.7 percent of Washingtonians approved same-sex marriage. Polling figures show a similar, if slightly lower, level of support nationwide.
"We’re not that far ahead of the nation,” Smith said. "The whole nation is trending; we’re just further along than the rest of the country."
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Duderocker author of this piece... How can we all be 'Washington' now, when states are voting on this? It's a states right thing...
Within a year the Supreme Court is going to get gay marriage federally recognized, and then it's only a matter of time til it spreads to all 50 as old people die off and religion thankfully dies off even more. Washington state is an awesome place to live, and a leader.
You are correct, gay marriage will and should be legalized federally, marijuana legalization will not. Washington is not a trendsetter in today's world.
CinUSA
I think you're wrong. Weed has become less vilified, and people are realizing that it's been nothing but a cash cow in the fed's wasteful drug war. Washington is definitely setting the trend with this issue, and once other states see the tax income generated from its sale, you better bet that they'll hop on board.
You can all learn to be *Washington* now when you get educated (for a change -- always a dangerous suggestion in the ignorance-and supersitition-riddled Red States), fund your public schools adequately, stop running away from racial and ethnic integration, stop trying to keep women barefoot and pregnant, embrace diversity, stop living lives based on delusional paranoia and hatred of others, and stop worrying about how you will do in 'the next life and the next world' and just concentrate on doing good deeds in THIS life.
If you actually spent a bit more time focusing on doing good works in your community, and actually spent less time worrying about who of what sex was sleeping with who of what other sex, maybe you'd actually get somewhere.
This advice will thankfully be completely ignored in the Red States, which is why we in Washington need not worry about losing our qualitative edge to other places.
I really am not concerned with Washington; live there, be happy, but please don't paint everyone with the same brush. Ignorance has many forms, including those who think that everyone who disagrees with them is stupid or whatever. There are many thousands of people who are "faith-based" who don't hate, and who only want the same respect that some of you don't give to them. To believe in the "next life" is our choice, and many of us show compassion towards others in this life. Everyone has the right to live this life as they see fit, not just you.
The US Supreme Court will legalize same-sex marriage nationwide in June, so it really doesn't matter anymore. The bigots can enjoy their hate and discrimination for 6 more months, then not so much.
As more and more blue stataes begin legally growing their own pot, It will, like the excellent strains grown in Washington and Colorado, and California, make the Cartel's ragweed unsellable. Nobody in the West smokes Mexican anymore. They havent for years. Or if they do they're ashamed to break it out infront of their friends. This will force the Cartels to move their violent activities to the red states, where they will fight ever more desperately over peices of a smaller and smaller pie. When you encourage your politicians to keep pot illegal, you are inviting Cartel members to move in accross the street from you. It's happening already. The Cartel's main US distribution center used to be Taos, New Mexico. Now it's Atlanta , Georgia. Who are the morons again? And thank you, we will.
Trending was one of those meaningless over used words banished for 2013. I guess he is a little behind in his ahead state. I'm sure he will catch up to the rest of the nation soon.
Lyn,you do realize the article is about Washington State,not D.C?
Washington State not DC
And if it was legal nationwide, just think of all the legitimate money that Mexico could make exporting it the US, no more violence needed to keep it secret, and more opportunity for Mexico's citizens in Mexico, which would mean less illegal crossings to the US to try to provide for their families.
Seems a lot of damage is being done to multiple countries just to sooth the paranoia of some people. The drug war needs to stop and this safer alternative to alcohol needs to be legalized, and regulated and taxed just like alcohol.
I hate to think that I'm gonna have to move all the way to Washington just so I can get a decent nights sleep without taking chemical crap.
Hurry up and legalize so Darwin can kill em off faster
another conservative fool, FORGOT HISTORY, and that the founding fathers were POT FARMERS, and that they cherished EQUALITY.. IT seems WASHINGTON HAS BECOME AMERICA!! HOORAY! for common sense, and equality, and a special mention to CONSERVATIVE IGNORANCE..
IF it was LEGAL NATIONWIDE.. MEXICO wouldn't have anything wanted in the USA... POT is washington and California LARGEST CASH CROP... if it were legal nationwide.. we'd be EXPORTING IT.. around the nation.. leaving mexico with their "rope" quality hemp.. the only reason people buy mexican weed, it quality isn't available cheap enough..
musician by night
Not sure what you're going on about. Nobody in these comments has said a single thing about weed never being a factor in accidents. Anything that impairs judgment is going to play a part if it's mixed with driving. That's just common sense. Nobody is advocating that it's OK for people to get high and drive.
As far as it being addictive - there's studies that have gone both ways; some saying it is, others say it isn't. It's all biased and nothing has resulted in definitive proof that it can become a physical addiction. Psychological is a different story. It's also completely irrelevant if it's a psychological addiction. People can become psychologically addicted to just about anything, so I hardly consider that a big player in trying to make marijuana out to be the bad guy.
WA is not a liberal state, it is a libertarian state. That means on fiscal issues it's conservative and on social issues it's liberal. It has had a democrat governor for so long because like IL it is corrupt with voter fraud.
Even I as a conservative voted for both laws, I can't want government out of my life while wanting it in someone else's. I'm not sure about gay marriage but I think most conservatives have come to the same conclusion, all the war on drugs has done is lead us closer to a pollce state while increaseing gang crime and making criminals out of ordinary citizens.
Valhalla Phil
Feel free to provide something known as EVIDENCE and PROVE your assertion, or else kindly withdraw it for the false and lying whiny right-wing B.S. that it is.
Sam Reed (a Republican, incidentally, with no "indebtedness" to Democrats whatsoever) continued to be Secretary of State (the guy incharge of holding, monitoring and ensuring the fairness of elections) for almost two decades because he was well-known to be scrupulously fair and unbiased.
To Republicans, "voter fraud" is almost always 'code' and Repub-speak for "Women, young people, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, progressives and liberals showed up in large numbera and had the gall to actually exercise THEIR RIGHT TO VOTE, and we don't like it."
Too many laws.
YouCantHandleThe Truth4
Feel free to offer the slightest bit of "evidence" to support your false and lying claim, or else withdraw it for the lying B.S. that it is.
Or do you supposedly "know" this because you were secretly cruising gay bars and "gay sex shops" (no such thing exists as far as I know) to check out the "alternatives" to your bigoted and hate-filled lifestyle?
Pedophiles are almost universally hetero. And the people who spend the most time hating on and vilifying gays are the ones most likely to be closeted, repressed, deeply ashamed "underground" gays themselves.
But then you knew that already, didn't you?
I was wondering the same. How do you know about these "sex dolls" unless you went looking? I went looking. Didn't find them. We can handle the truth... if you know any, please share.
ADVERTISING is against the COH... youcan'thandlethetruth.. is only ADVERTISING .. ignore like any adbot
Consider the level of education in WA sate. Our leading industries are driven by engineering, information technology, and highly skilled labor. We have the highest minimum wage in the country. We've, mostly, avoided the sort of draconian super majority rules in our legislative processes that have crippled states like California. Maybe thought and reason aren't so bad after all! Thank you!
And there's a lot of rain there. Don't forget the rain.
Without Gates,Microsoft and Starbucks ... Washington state would just be a state with a lot of trees.
All out of bubblegum,
Keep fiddling Nero.
WTF!-6649602,
That's not entirely true. Washi-tuckey also has Boeing, apples, fish wrangling, and drug addled queers.
And quit acting like a pompous jackass and lose the upside down flag avitar.
Just a matter of time here in Oregon...this is a pretty liberal state overall, which is one of the reasons I chose to move here.
Washington's unemployment rates are above the national average, and with more people losing their jobs to positive marijuana tests multiplied by the moral and legal right to smoke marijuana that number will rise. Almost 20% of your workforce in the engineering and tech industries is imported labor, over half of that imported from overseas. Washington has high tax rates for it's size, in some area one is taxed up to 9.5% for sales tax. You have plenty of draconian rules and your crime rates have remained fairly bad the last decade or more. Nothing to gloat about.
You're forgetting Amazon, Boeing, Weyerhauser, the ports of Seattle and Tacoma, Pacific Car & Foundry (Kenworth trucks), and three major military bases.
By and large, the only Republicans that get elected to statewide office are moderates, the religious zealots and far right have found it a hard sell here.
I'm missing the point here. Take the major employers out of any state and you have same thing, just fewer trees.
November 2012 unemployment rate in Washington state was 7.3%, below the national average of 7.7%. In King County -- the most populous county in the state -- unemployment was 6.3%, which isn't far from full employment
What's your citation for this?
Washington has a regressive tax structure, no question. But, given the opportunity, citizens have passed on changing it. I'm not sure of what "for it's [sic]] size means." The conservative Tax Foundation places Washington in its second lowest tier (of six) of taxes paid as a percentage of income.
Silvaria,
Your ignorance is palpable. Oregon is a predominately conservative state.
The problem is that Multnomah county has attracted so many carpet bagging freaks, liberal progressives, and gays, that the tail now wags the dog.
I'm a Portland native. 52 yrs. Portland was a blue collar town. That all changed with the infestation of the Californians in the 80's and with the occupation of local government by non-natives the town has become dominated by freaks and weirdos.
I'm sure youre a nice person but please feel free to take your liberal, carpet bagging ass back to where you came from.
I suggest Washington.
Without Gates, Microsoft and Starbucks, Washington State would still be home to plenty of other great employers, a progressive social environment and a high standard of living, all of which bode well for the future.
I'm a proud Washingtonian attending University of Washington (studying engineering)...
Although I'm glad we got featured, I'm not sure I understood the point of this article.
Somebody care to explain what was actually said here?
It sounds like it pretty much just said, we're libertarians, and that we like initiatives because of our distrust of government?
Who was the idiot who wrote this?
It really depends on which part of the state you go to, Eastern Washington might as well be Idaho or Montana, politically, but all you need to win here is to win King County with a large margin... Just sayin'.
The Puget Sound area (Tacoma to Everett predominately), is dominated by the Democratic party, which is where all our initiatives comes from so you can see where policy follows.
CinUSA
It's already been explained to you that your assertion is false.
In addition, all statewide unemployment rates are an amalgram of the mish-mashed differences between unemployment rates in the more-urban areas (much lower) and those of the out-there-in-flyover-country counties (much higher).
The overall unemployment rate would be much lower in Washington State were the relatively low rates in King, Pierce and Snohomish Counties (the economic drivers of the state) being negatively offset by the much-higher rates of unemployment in the flyspeck Nowheresville counties where "employment" mostly consists of counting trees. The unemployment rates in those areas are much higher for a reason -- nobody seriously wants to live there.
Actually that is nonsense. As difficult as this is for you to grasp, people here actually really do understand the difference between something being permitted "by law" versus something being permitted and accepted "by their employers". In addition, with the change in laws governing pot, it's just a matter of time before employers get the message that they can "screen for" drug use but they cannot legally deny employment to people in retaliation for their personal use of a drug that is now legal.
That is exactly right and it is wonderful. Those imported engineers are superior to the local rednecks - they are smarter than people in Oklahoma and Alabama, which is why those imported engineering and tech workers choose to come here to Washington State instead of to Oklahoma or Alabama. Word of our progressive state's high quality of life and lack of emphasis on religious and racial issues has spread overseas, and that's why people from abroad choose to come here instead of the Hinterlands in Red State Country -- it's a lot more pleasant for them to come to a place where they will be welcomed and their diversity embraced, rather than being harangued and challenged to "get to know Jesus" as soon as they step off the airplane.
That's how it should be. Amazingly enough, unlike people in the rest of the country, we are actually able to figure out that if you want to have high-quality government services (which, we strongly support), you have to pay for them with things called Taxes.
Itr's completely acceptable for there to be crime. There has always been crime, there always will be a certain amount of crime, it can never ever be "eliminated" except in right-wing gun-toting Looney-Toon fantasies. Therefore, it must be accepted.
Our Washington-made airplanes carry millions of people around the world each year, our computer software powers the majority of the world's computers. That's plenty to gloat about.
oreraider
That's why it's predominantly one of The Armpits Of The Universe. Outside of Multnomah County, there is no "There" There.
TRANSLATION: It has attracted so many people who think for themselves, are intelligent enough to think instead of mindlessly chanting "USA! USA!" and don't share in your Jesus-freak religiously-induced bigotry toward people of different sexual orientation.
TRANSLATION: It has attracted so many people who think for themselves, are intelligent enough to think instead of mindlessly chanting "USA! USA!" and don't share in your Jesus-freak religiously-induced bigotry toward people of different sexual orientation.
I do, too. He is welcome to start an intellect-based company in a place where free-thinking, freedom-of-speech / freedom-of-sexuality / freedom-of-political-thought devotees are welcome.
@oreraider
Can't wait till people like you're 6 feet under, I will take pleasure in desecrating your grave you ignorant fool.
> Can't wait till people like you're 6 feet under, I will take pleasure in desecrating your grave you ignorant fool.
Is that an example of the kind of welcome Seattle Sunset means here: "...and that's why people from abroad choose to come here instead of the Hinterlands in Red State Country -- it's a lot more pleasant for them to come to a place where they will be welcomed and their diversity embraced..." And the Left wants to call Christians the haters. Read your own posts.
What "draconian rules" is Cin talking about, anyway? I lived in Washington for 22 years and can't think of a one.
My employer is not located in a state with medical marijuana laws, but is near the border of one and many of my coworkers live there. My employer accepts medical marijuana cards from the next state over if you flunk a drug screen. If it were legal, they would just stop testing for it. I haven't really heard of people getting fired for pot when they have a medical card except two. One was a guy at Walmart, and the other was in Washington, and the way the case was going it appeared that he would get his job back. Employer drug screens may not turn out to be a problem. Many executives and members of boards of directors have enough personal experience with pot to know that it's not going to adversely affect their employees performance.
That explains why Oregon was founded as a white supremacist state where it was illegal to be black.
eric-3219395
We embrace and accept the diversity of others, as they embrace and accept our diversity. The only corresponding requirement is that those whom we welcome and accept, need in turn to welcome and accept others as well.
They do.
You don't.
That's the difference. See if you can grasp what that means.
They (right-wing Christians) are haters. They display rabid hatred of gays and lesbians, hatred of the rights of women to control their own uteruses and decide for themselves whom they wish to have sex with, hatred, of Jews, hatred of Muslims, hatred of Buddhists, hatred of Hindus, hatred of "uppity" blacks, hatred of anyone who is different and who makes no apology for being different.
Washington State Republicans used to be a relatively moderate, thoughtful, articulate, sane bunch. They were somewhat more conservative than Democrats, but they were not bat-guano insane. They contributed much to the State of Washington and its political and intellectual heritage. Men such as Dan Evans, John Spellman, Sam Reed, Slade Gorton and women such as Jennifer Dunn were generally well-respected. They understood the need to put aside shrill ideology and dogmatism, work across party lines and cooperate to achieve things for the people.
All that changed in the early 1980s when the Washington State Republican Party was the target of a coup by bat-guano-crazy Christian conservatives such as Ellen Craswell. The crazies seized control of the Republican Party and immediately began shutting out the moderates from their own party and replacing them with Cloud Cuckoo-Land rants about the United Nations, non-Christians, liberals and abortion rights.
The difference here in Washington State is that we don't put up with that whacko nonsense.
When the KKKhristian Krazies ranted about abortion rights and tried to legally force women to bear fetuses they did not want, we in turn replied and successfully passed a citizens' initiative that added abortion rights to the state constitution and entrenched Roe v. Wade as the example to be followed.
When the right-wing Christian ranted about "Agenda 21" and "property rights", we adopted land-use codes that encouraged multi-family housing and increased building of townhouses and condos, channeled growth into "urban villages" where infrastrusture already existed to cope with that growth and added bike lanes on city streets and High-Occupancy Vehicle lanes on the freeways.
Every few years, the bat-guano-crazy KKKristian Konservatives nominate another right-wing lunatic for Senator or Governor. And every few years, we in the sensible, secular majority squash the election hopes of the conservatives like bugs on a car windshield, which is pretty much exactly what they are.
I was born in 1948,in a little town called Flint,Michigan. After being stationed here at Whidbey Island, in Washington State and being stationed at Andrews Airforce base,I choose Washington State. Live where you want,that's part of being American. Voice your opinion,same thing, but most of the people in the United States fail to recognize that Washington State even exists,and I love it that way!
So do I R.Bondy.. We were born in the same year too. lol Washington is beautiful on both sides of the Cascades.
Sharon, don't tell them! Tell the people it rains all the time and the adverage temperature is 40 degrees! We need to keep our little secrets! Love ya!
WAAAAAA state, you can suck on a friend or a joint but not a cigarette? Really progressive state. Actually the state is conservative, three counties rule the state unfortunately. C@L and the rest of the libtards in that state will take a few tokes as they watch Mt. Rainer wash it away into the Puget Sound.
I dont think that religion plays as big a part as they think. I live on the Utah/Wyoming border,"the book of Mormon belt" and have known a lot of LDS that smoke pot. And if you read the Salt Lake City, KSL.com news,every time marijuana comes up all the comments are pro pot.
In your part of the country religion plays a huge role in the opposition to marriage equality.
After all, these are the same bigoted nutballs who opposed mixed-race marriage and racial integration. Mormons have always thought certain other Americans should be 2nd-class citizens - especially women, blacks and gays. Just like the southern states they've fundamentally never agreed with the 14th Amendment and how it applies equal protection and the establishment clause to the states.
YouCantHandleThe Truth4
Feel free to offer the slightest bit of "evidence" to support your false and lying claim, or else withdraw it for the lying B.S. that it is.
Or do you supposedly "know" this because you were secretly cruising gay bars and "gay sex shops" (no such thing exists as far as I know) to check out the "alternatives" to your bigoted and hate-filled lifestyle?
Pedophiles are almost universally hetero. And the people who spend the most time hating on and vilifying gays are the ones most likely to be closeted, repressed, deeply ashamed "underground" gays themselves.
But then you knew that already, didn't you?
Finally, the Government wises up! Quit spending resources on victemless crimes!
The possession of pot should not be a criminal matter, but It remains to be seen if its legalization will produce "victims" of one kind or another. A person hit by a drunk driver versus being hit by a stoned driver likely wouldn't feel a difference in pain. I imagine that the workplace would become more "interesting" with its legalization too. I pass a guy several times a week who wears work clothes and a hardhat as he rides his bicycle on his way to work, with a joint hanging out of his mouth. Really smart. And long term health issues for avid tokers? Remains to be seen.
A real cause for pause for many in regards to its legalization is the apparent mentality of many who want pot legalized. Right wing fanatics in their opposition can be annoying as hell, but so can pro-pot people who sound like teen rebels or without a clue or aged hippies who think that Woodstock is the only good thing that ever happened on this planet, when they say stupid things like, "No one has ever died as a result of using pot!", "Candy is worse than pot cause it rots your teeth!", "Get rid of all laws!" "You don't want pot smoke in your face? Tough! I don't like the smell of perfume!"
If pot is legalized, it will likely be regulated like alcohol. The lack of maturity, the "in your face" attitude, and the self centeredness found in many pro pot comments that I've read over the past year however indicates that problems are ahead. Some people will smoke when and where they want and to hell with laws and to hell with others. Witness mass "smoke-ins" in public parks, held to make "statements", with cops looking the other way. Oh yeah, pot regulation will work alright.
This is boring. Where are the fundies? Their sincerely-held, silly beliefs make make me howl with laughter!!!
I don't like right wing religious fanatics, and I was bored too! Then I came across your non-fundy but equally self righteous and superior comment. Thanks for making me howl with laughter (at sincere but silly you) too!
Sounds like Nikolaus holds silly beliefs, but I never realized you were a fundie.
Legalize pot in EVERY state. With the BS we're facing from here on out, we might as well have the right to take the edge off with a joint in every state without fear of getting johnny law coming in to steal our weed for himself and put us in jail over it.
Legalize it but the good jobs still require drug testing and do not want employees with it in their systems. So lets see, good job with excellent benefits or a joint, I think I will take the good job. The worthless crap can sit around and smoke the joint.
A good job with excellent benefits???? Man, you MUST be on something stronger than a joint.
All those tech jobs that pay 60k+ a year actually exist in WA, but potheads aren't the ones getting them.
CinUSA
I see spouting nonsense is a habit with you. The majority of high tech companies in this state do not test for drugs. It will only be a matter of time until employers will all understand that testing positive for THC is about as meaningless as testing positive for alcohol (outside of tests which indicate the user is actively under the influence). As long as the employee is using their drug of choice, whether that's weed or alcohol, on their own time outside of work hours, it has no impact on their productivity or level of safety. One could argue alcohol is worse, as the effects of abuse can last way beyond the period when the user is no longer impaired - i.e. a hangover, yet employers don't get bent out of shape for people having a few drinks after work. The stigma attached to marijuana use is silly in comparison.
You obviously do not have a good job, since you do not know how laws work. Thanks for proving your own ignorance.
I have a good job, with benefits. I have no doubt that when it's legalized my employer will simply stop testing for it. In the meanwhile, there are many ways for an old stoner to deal wth drug screens, and still relax in the fashion he chooses, when he gets home from work.
Having attended church 5X in the last 8 days, beside celebrating the birth of our Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ, one sermon centered around 12/21/2012, the day some Mayan calendar said the world would come to an end. The sermon reminded all of us how every time we attend church to hear the word of God, partake in communion to have our sins forgiven that God recreates us. In this recreation we are renewed, regenerated in our faith and as Christians in every way. Similar to an ending to an old world and entering into a new world with new profound meaning.
Do you stand on the corner and pimp god?
Wtf does this have to do with the price of tea in China?
LOL. No god has ever been proven to exist in nearly 3.4 million years of human existence, which means no god does exist. Take your fictitious beliefs someplace else.
I too feel a sense of renewal, when I come home from a hard night at work, kick my shoes off, and light up a joint.
wow sermonizing. And they say there is a war on religion. Does someone always have to preach in every damn discussion.
Good to see not everyone here is completely lost
Smokin dope and smokin bone. Perfect! What a bunch of morons......
Our neighbors to the North have finally out liberal progressived the Portland freaks.
For which, we are very proud. Kindly keep your tree-counting, bigoted, hateful, homophobic, regressive Jesus-freak mentality where it belongs. We don't need unintelligent conservatives (an oxymoron description if ever there was one) polluting our more-intelligent gene pool here in Washington State.
LOL, aren't you the haughty, hateful, boastful one?
Nope, just stating facts.
When you learn how to do something socially useful instead of just being trained to destroy things and kill people, we may even allow you to live here in the decent, civilized areas instead of confining you to one of the outlying places in the state.
Here's another. The Sunday after the Newtown tragedy, as written then.
Today in church we had a great sermon about John the Baptist how he was in prison waiting to be executed and how Jesus was on the outside sending a message to John and John rejoiced. In the midst of John the Baptist's sorrow he found rejoice through Jesus Christ.
Than someone stood up in church which rarely happens and adds, and when the mother was weeping because her daughter had died because Jesus was late to save her, Jesus said to her, your daughter is only sleeping. What rejoice Jesus gave to this woman in her time of sorrow.
And another added still, and even while Jesus was on the cross He turned to one of the men who were also being crucified and said, Today, you will be with me in Paradise.
Much of the congregation were all pretty much in tears by then, emotionally moved, rejoicing in this great time of sorrow. And our pastor finished up the sermon telling us how much we have already learn that through Jesus Christ we will find rejoice in the midst of our sorrows no matter how bad it can get.
After church there was a lot of hugging and comforting from fellow members and this was in a church 1000 miles away from Newtown.
It's all made up, and you fell for it.
ManWomanGod, you are seriously one @!$%#ed up brainwashed individual. You should try the kool-aid, I hear it's delicious.
When does Horus and Poseidon come along?
I am quite interested if you have evidence that this occurred....
http: //news.discovery.com/history/jesus-crucifixion-120524.html
You're starting to get it MWG, emotion has nothing to do with reality.
I am proud of my state. And really don’t care about out of
state opinions. You don’t live here, and we don’t want you!! lol
And we don't want to!
Correct Francle. The majority don't want a nation of potheads, especially at a time when we are in such dire need or repairing this nation. Washington can keep Seattle and their taxed pot.
Yeah! Stay away!! It rains all the time! Damn, it's too bad Emmet Watson is dead!!
CinUSA
If anyone needs to smoke some weed to calm down, it's you. Your panties are way twisted over this, and it's clouded your judgement. You've apparently bought into the whole "reefer madness" thing, hook line and sinker.
Actually you don't speak for the nation or have any clue what the nation wants.
And actually you already have a nation of pot smokers. It's just that you are seriously delusional enough to think you can make them all "go away" somehow if you pass regressive idiotic laws that criminalize peaceful behavior and put people in jails and prisons for exercising a choice of a different stimulant than alcohol.
You already tried with your insane Jesus-freak mentality to outlaw alcohol once before.
And, of course, THAT Prohibition failed completely utterly totally and big-time.
But, you being rather unintelligent, you of course refused to learn anything from that failed experiment.
Which, is why you somehow are clueless enough to believe you can try the same thing regarding marijuana and yet somehow get a different result.
It's been remarked upon many times, that the hallmark of insanity is defined as "Doing the same thing over and over, and yet somehow hoping for a different result." And in one fell swoop, you managed to prove that axiom.
Your post is screwed up in so many ways. Although I agree that pot should be legalized- I do believe it is a dangerous drug in that it demotivates people, and that it is not good for young people to be successful. Your insults to Christians illustrate your mentality and painting people with a wide brush. It's not rational nor is it logical. Stats say half of people below the age of 50 have smoked pot at least once. Many of them I am sure don't smoke it any longer. Being a former indulger, (its been 25 years) I can tell you that pot is not something most productive people do. There are exceptions but it is not productive. Also, if you smoke it, it many more carcinogen elements due to the deep inhaling and lack of filters. So its not a "nation of pot smokers" but more of a nation of people that have never smoked pot, have tried it and don't like it, used to smoke it and quit, and those that continue to smoke it.
If it is legalized it needs to be severely regulated and punishment for giving it to kids , for driving on it , and if an employer does not want it in the body's system , they should be able to curb employing those people.
Overall- probably not as bad as alcohol, should be legalized, but the health and negative influences of using the drug and overusing it should be communicated to the public.
You are entirely welcome to your wrong opinion. I smoked pot when I was much younger. I don't choose to do so now, not because I am opposed to it but because I simply was never that into it in the first place, but I have no problem whatsoever with people who do choose it as their choice of recreational drug. I make a very comfortable living, and I know many other people who also make comfortable livings - some of whom smoke pot recreationally, some of whom do not. The shibboleth about pot supposedly "demotivating" people is simply nonsense. I know quite a few productive people who do smoke pot, which pretty much destroys your false stereotype. More to the point, there is no "obligation" on anybody's part to "be productive". We are not good little worker bees, we have no "obligation" to "be productive", there are many artists and others who make relatively little money but who contribute immensely to the quality of life here.
Your suggestion that "if an employer does not want it in the body's system , they should be able to curb employing those people" is dangerously fascistic nonsense. An employee does not "owe" anything at all on their non-work time to their employer. How they choose to spend their non-work hours is quite simply none of your or anyone else's business.
But the employer does have the right to say if you engage in that behavior, you will not work for them. Again, I would rather take the good job (not in Washington) and the get the fantastic benefits.
mutter-356236
No, the employer doesn't have any such "right" at all.
An employer has no "right" whatsoever to condition your employment on your voluntarily surrendering your legal right to engage in activities that are perfectly legal, on your own time, when you are not at work.
If pot possession and usage are legal, then your employer has no say whatsoever over whether or not you choose to engage in that legal activity on your own time.
It would no different than an employer saying "We will only hire you if you agree not to use birth control pills and allow us to test your blood for traces of the active ingredient in birth control pills to prove you are complying, because we believe it's immoral for women to use birth control and we will therefore enforce our beliefs on you." No, you won't. You as an employer have no "right" to make such an agreement or enforce such a condition, because it's an unlawful intrusion on an employee's personal life and personal beliefs.
You also do not have any "right" to force women to "prove" they are virgins, force men to abstain from drinking alcohol in their off-hours, force anyone receiving social assistance to consent to allow their homes to be searched, or any number of other impositions upon peoples' personal and non-work lives.
Seattle. You are saying it better than I could and I love how progressive my State is. I am so proud we passed both intititives and by a good margin. Our state is beautiful but I am glad that so many think all it does is rain.Let us keep it that way. :=)
Seattle-Sunset
I've enjoyed your posts, and I think that we are mostly like minded, but you are wrong when you say that private employers have no right to exclude applicants based on their, (the employers'), view of acceptable behavior. There ARE legal protections, of course...race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, disability, etc... But many companies DO discriminate based on otherwise legal activities. Large health care providers like Humana and Kaiser and Group Health will not hire you to scrub toilets if you use tobacco. Global companies, such as Boeing, charge higher insurance premiums to employees who do not enroll in wellness programs.
I'm not stating an opinion, here, except that big brother, (read big corporations), have gained WAY more power over our personal lives than most people believe. Thank you!
bubblegum, I was going to say the same thing, but you beat me to it. Great posts Seattle!
Its Federally not legal. So it is illegal, despite what Washington says.
You bringing out the fascist label and your other comments illustrate who you are.
Marijuana will never be legal on a national level, most states will never legalize, most states will never have medical, most states won't even have a form of de-criminal. Gay marriage has a chance federally, marijuana does not. We can look back at this 10-20 years from now and the only states that will have some form of heavily taxed and restrictive legalization laws will be the ones who fro the last decade or so have been trying for it. CA, OR, WA and CO. The few northeast states pushing the legal vote in 2013 don't stand a chance and most states have already began legislation to stop any legalization attempts in the future. The majority of the nation may be for medical and de-criminal, but when it comes to the voting booth in most states, legalization is the clear underdog. I say we let WA and CO experiment and OR and CA fight for their right to get high, it's not like they have any serious issues to deal with.
I know that dope smoking is just as prevalent in Texas and other red states as it is in Washington and that will continue. It is just now the money won't be going to the Mexican cartels, and the state will get its taxes.
Keep your head buried in the sand. You must be some old codger who thinks the marriageawana is responsible for breeding evil. Times are changing, old man. WA and CO are proof of this. The trend has been heading towards decriminalizing weed for a long time, and it will continue until the whole nation stops buying into the irrational and unsuccessful drug war that has raged for way too long, and it's legalized in every state. It won't happen over night, but it will happen. I give it five years. You'll probably be dead from old age by then anyway.
You're an idiot. It will most defiantly will be legal on a national level and Gay marriage will be legal nationwide in June! Majority of American's support both legal marijuana and Gay marriage. Seems you only care what you know not.
To CinUSA,
The biggest supporters of prohibition are those that profit most from it. Specifically the alcohol and tobacco industries, big pharmacological companies, the black market, and the "for profit" prison system. How do you feel about them? Do you think they are taking a wait-and-see approach to your ballot box?
I agree with your view that this will be, ultimately, a states rights fight...but one that I think WILL force change on a federal level, and Washington and Colorado have thrown the first punches. Substance abuse of any kind is a medical problem and should not be a legal one. There has never been a rational argument in favor of prohibition. Thank you!
Please quit the bs about older people many who have smoked pot a very long time and most of us seniors have fought to get it legalized. Many many seniors are in favor of legalization. So quit pulling non facts out of..never mind..
Can't wait till Oregon joins the ranks of informed electorate. Pot heads, what a funny label. Much rather work with them than the ones who get drunk, drive, and come to work with horrid hangovers ready to start the process over again at lunch.
Everything is acceptable... Or else... You disagree with or have an issue with and you in turn are labeled as a "hater". You have to conform to accept what is progressive and liberal, or you are not in keeping with what is politically correct and what is socially trending.
This is democracy in action if the majority is pushing and demanding it?
I believe in individuality, I hate nobody (I hate the Gay Lifestyle and NOT the people themselves-and yes, I was forced into it at a young age), I will not conform because there are still things that are wrong even if the majority Is pushing for those things. Anarchy is never a good choice. I do not believe in political correctness, but I believe that we should never purposely try to offend anyone. People seem to think that everyone should be the same, but guess what, we're not all the same, males are different than females no matter what people would like to have us think. Each person is different than another. If everything was acceptable than Nothing would be illegal (murder, rape, robbery, ect) and that is NOT a world I want to live in.
I wish a happy New year to you wahoo69 and to the rest who have read & commented on this artical
Dave-3375765
I hope that the time will come when you gain some worldiness, some broadening of your experience in life and your outlook. If and when you do, and if and when you ever have an opportunity to actually meet and talk with someone who has a different sexual orientation than you, I think you may discover what many people already know and understand, namely that being gay or lesbian is a life, it is not a lifestyle. It is not a "choice" - when and where exactly did you "choose" to be your sexual orientation, and with what court did you file the relevent paperwork?
I am concerned with your comment that "yes, I was forced into it at a young age" - I don't honestly know what it means but I can guarantee you that anyone who would force sexual knowledge on someone at a very young age against their will is neither "gay" nor "straight", they are what's known as a pedophile and a criminal and they belong in a cage.
You have the right to your own opinion, but you do not have the right to avoid having your balls busted over the dumb opinions you hold.
Dave, our rights, as stated by the Constitution, include the right to happiness. The laws are there to protect anyone whose rights are being violated. Pretty simple concept so far? Okay, now murder, rape, robbery, etc. are all crimes that do violate someone's rights. Sexual encounters between CONSENTING ADULTS is not a crime in any sense of the word, period. Someone smoking pot and acting peacefully is not a crime in any sense of the word.
So please go ahead and set fire to your strawmen, they're not doing their jobs very well.
hmmmmmmm interestiing
Marijuana is one of GOD's natural herb plants on this earth to assist humans with physical and mental issues.
Recreation is a mental issue: so is allowing terminal cancer patients their GOD-GIVEN right to ease their pain.
The Constitution does NOT specifically express DRUG LAWS as under the perview of our FEDERAL Government;
nor do any of the states have any legitimate interest (EXCEPT substantial sales taxes and balanced budgets).
Homosexuality though, is the opposite of "natural", particularly regarding RE-CREATIONAL SEX. Gays CANNOT
naturally produce offspring, though there are PLAYING GOD attempts of late to use test-tube methedologies.
Gays are being allowed to adopt kids though, which immediately suggests the "Michael Jackson" phenomena.
Homosexuality is CONDEMNED by GOD, even to the extent of BLASPHEMY AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT. Such
ABSOLUTE SMUT needs TORN FROM THE STALKS OF LIFE AND BURNED, lest they lend their cancer elsewhere.
Yet with the separation of church & state, it thus becomes STATES RIGHTS ISSUE to decide for or against, or
even reduce decision to that of personal or religious, NOT ONE which the ANY STATE has any lawful interest.
MARRIAGE on the other hand may STILL BE LEGALLY FACTUALLY RECOGNIZED as pairing two natural humans male & female for natural procreation, also known as re-creation; also well known as RECREATION.
HOMOSEXUALITY is INCAPABLE of ANY of these: rather only ABOMINATION AGAINST GOD's CREATION. Thus may homosexuality be identified as AGAINST GOD, which is the same as saying it is SATANIC.
Just Sayin' the GOD's HONEST TRUTH, by GOD. If this angers you, perhaps you will benefit from an exorcism.
perhaps you will benefit from not CAPITALIZING so many words.
that's the story of how stupid you are.
there once was an infected monkey that bit a heterosexual hunter or was eaten by him and that's how aids was created.
My version is, of course, much more logical, but its not as hateful as yours.
But I do find it amusing how the anti-gay folks seem to obsess with gay sex, animal sex, etc. lol.
Lee Roy...f*ck your gawd.
YouCant...get educated...that story is a total farce and you know it. The virus was transmitted from an ape or monkey to a human when a hunter or bushmeat vendor/handler was bitten or cut while hunting or butchering the animal.
leave: isn't it fascinating how posters like YCHTT seem obsessed with details about gay sex? lol. I can't imagine the depravity in his mind that makes him feel the need to post details about sex as he does. yuck. :)
he also makes these crazy allegations with not a shred of proof of course. He's a regular "legend in his own mind". lol.
Vermont...yep. It would seem that YCHTT is the one who really "can't handle the truth".
yes, there are few legendary idiots, but you are one of them. :)
No need to thank us, the free entertainment you provide by your stupid posts is thanks enough. :)
We'll thank you to stay away from our children.
Now his name was Ken Thorne, not Ken Holmes, as you claimed before, YouCan't?
Yet another lie you've been caught spreading.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_the_United_States
Does it say that his name was Ken Thorne?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/10/29/us-aids-usa-idUSN2954500820071029?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true
Does that say his name was Ken Thorne?
http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5h4Mj7d0NPUebmBIE0b9em7Ee4lgA
Does that say his name was Ken Thorne?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ga%C3%ABtan_Dugas
Sure, YouCan't, you're a "legend" -- in your own mind (what there is of it, anyway).
YouCantHandleThe Truth4
Feel free to offer the slightest bit of "evidence" to support your false and lying claim, or else withdraw it for the lying B.S. that it is.
Or do you supposedly "know" this because you were secretly cruising gay bars and "gay sex shops" (no such thing exists as far as I know) to check out the "alternatives" to your bigoted and hate-filled lifestyle?
Pedophiles are almost universally hetero. And the people who spend the most time hating on and vilifying gays are the ones most likely to be closeted, repressed, deeply ashamed "underground" gays themselves.
But then you knew that already, didn't you?
Thanks for the item. For more on Libs see the Libertarian International Organization
Dear Oreraider:
What an ignorant, HATEFUL nasty piece of work you seem to be. 'Bone smoker'...really? How 3rd grade of you. May I suggest, being a fellow Oregonian, that you take YOUR small-minded, feeble ass and relocate to one of the more redneck states, where you and all of the other morons can go form your own little country.
Jackass.
Washington state, California, their both the same and home of the fagots and Lesbian lifestyle. What has ever happened to America. What a role model to our children.
I know! It's almost like they think every citizen deserves the same legal rights!
We're doomed!
pgard
Exactly. They're the epitome of the best role models, and I'm happy you pointed it out. Despite the majority of your ignorant, rambling and grammatically laughable post, you pulled through at the end and capped it off with a compliment to a number of free-thinking, non-bigoted states. If any states can teach children that the dark ages are over and redneck mentality is not acceptable, it would be the states you've listed. Kudos for the recognition.
Won't be long before we will live in trees once again and eat grass when available...if we follow the lead!
Yup, we all live in tree forts up here, while we design space shuttles, stealth fighters, and such. Someone's not getting an invite to the space fort...
My vote for the best description of describing America as a society in the United States for 2012. Is one program, Honey Boo Boo..are we trying to see how low we can go to make money? We are not only scraping bottom, we are digging a trench and burying culture as we go. There are a few others that come close but TLC gets the flying fickle finger of fate for 2012.
Just goes to show how the decline of religion should lead to more enlightened attitudes and higher quality of life. I'm proud to be living in the state with the highest percentage of atheists, a right to die, a right to medical and recreational marijuana, and the right for LGBT people to marry who they want. Atheists tend to believe in science too, which also improves the quality of life, because people who use reason can adapt their behavior in response to facts and reality. Religious people who are bigots have no justification for their attitudes other than their faith in fairy tales and conspiracy theories.
Your absolutely right. In Florida there is a couple who want to get married. They belive that you should marry who you want. Their family is thowing a fit. They don't belive that their family has any say in the matter. The state of Florida still will not allow brother and sister to marry. That is probably a tempoary thing. The new liberal society will change that soon. Oh and there is a guy in Indiana who is in love and would like to marry Mica. Mica is his 86lb Great Dane. Just dump the religion and do whatever you like. Since our laws are based on the commandments lets do away with all laws. Tough it out, you can handle it. If you get robbed or raped or someone close to you gets beaten or murdered, call an atheist.
WRONG. Our laws are based on English Common Law, and documents like the Magna Carta. If they were based on the 10 commandments, adultery would be illegal, lying would be illegal, taking God's name in vain would be illegal, etc.
FYI, murder and theft were illegal long before there was any organized religion, or a bible.
If you believe that our laws were based on the commandments, show us where the Constitution mentions God, Jesus, the bible, or any other religious text or deity.
Demonstratably false! Our laws is based on the Constitution, and not on the 10 commandments, or any religious ideology. I defy you to prove otherwise!
As soon as Mica can give legal consent, go for it!
I suggest that smalley50 relocate to someplace where the laws are all "biblically based", where his / her / its views of "morality" are strictly enforced, where birth control is illegal, where choosing to have an abortion is punishable by death, where sex education is prohibited and where people are all forced to live in accordance with "Gawd's will".
Also, it would be helpful for smalley50 if their new home is a place with lots of "Gawd" and lots of "guns" but no "government".
Saudi Arabia comes to mind, as does Somalia.
I'm sure that smalley50 will be fine with these choices, once he / she / it gets used to seeing all those "Mooslims" all safely bundled up in their morality-enforcing burqas.
Washington State Law prohibited what was happening at the space needle. I gather the police were afraid to arrest them because it is legal to smoke Marijuana, guess what it is illegal to smoke in public places! Check out 70.160.030Smoking prohibited in public places or places of employment. Wonder how many people will end up on their next drug test positive for Marijuana. Guess what guys you can't be arrested for smoking it but you can be fired if your employment stipulates no drug use!
In CA my neighbor almost lost his job because neighbors were illegally smoking marijuana in an adjacent back yard next to where the neighbor was barbecuing for his family. He tested positive but marginally so, and was given a warning which was put in his employment file. It was only after another neighbor complained and the police investigated that they learned why he tested positive for something he did not smoke!
If you must smoke do it inside your own home!
Actually, they probably declined to arrest them because they realized it was a complete waste of police resources and because the offense of smoking in a public place is a simple misdemeanor, punishable by a ticket in the same way as a moving violation. It's not an arrestable offense.
Guess, what, you don't know what you are talking about. You cannot be fired for engaging in an activity that is perfectly legal during your non-work time.
And the key word that you manage to completely and neatly overlook there is "illegally".
It's presently illegal to smoke marijuana in CA.
It's presently NOT illegal to smoke marijuana in Washington State.
An employer cannot legally terminate your employment in retaliation for your doing something on your off-hours that is perfectly legal, unless they relish the idea of finding themselves being hauled into court and hit with a lawsuit.
The best they can do is to stipulate that you cannot be under the influence of ANY mood-altering substance during your working hours, probably for reasons of safety. And even then, that's probably legally shaky ground. It's one thing for them to enforce that rule on, say, a crane operator or the driver of a piece of heavy construction equipment. It's probably a different matter if the person in question is an office worker and someone whose job does not involve the use of anything more dangerous than a stapler.
Seattle_Sunset-
You may wish to brush up on your law. Colorado has a law prohibiting off-work activities from being used in employment decisions, but Washington does not. Smoking marijuana during non-work hours can still be a valid reason for termination in the state of Washington, even though it's legal here at the state level. Federal laws still make it illegal, and that provides legal cover for employers who wish to do so.
Further, if your employer is the federal government, or is a federal government contractor, your employer will continue to be governed by the Federal Drug Free Workplace guidelines, which continue to specify that marijuana is illegal and terminatable offense, as well as specify the drug testing regimes that must be in place for your employer.
justross
Federal employee aside, no corporation in their right mind is going to want a legal battle over the legality of an employee's off-hours activities. I can gurantee that there would be thousands of lawyers salivating over the opportunity to spear-head a lawsuit that challenges an employee's right to privacy when a state has legalized something illegal on the federal level. That has "star status" written all over it. It's simply not worth the trouble, especially if there's no evidence that the employee's performance was affected.
Adam L-
Your gaurantee isn't worth the pixels it takes up on my computer screen. Employers terminate people all the time for off-work activity that is completely legal, at least in states where it's not specifically barred by law. How many stories have we heard about teachers getting the boot for a history of making porn? It's legal, it happens all the time, and will continue to happen even after pot is legal in Washington.
This is only the beginning of thousands of law suits over the legalization of marijuana. There are NO WAY to accommodate EVERYONE'S lifestyles.. SOMEONE'S rights will be infringed upon... Can't smoke during work hours? So what if I smoke five minutes before I teach my first class? Or are teachers excluded from legally smoking? It's ridiculous. Way to open Pandora's Box.. Geez.
Because I have such extreme anxiety of gay couples being able to wed (and thus threaten my heterosexual marriage), I am forced to smoke pot in order to cope. I hold all liberals 100% responsible for my addiction, my failed marriage, and my weight gain.
Correct.