Yes, W. left him with quite a mess. Fortunately, Repugnicans didn't get a chance to short-circuit the process of fixing it.

Yes, and remember the vote to go into combat was nearly unanimous both democrats and republicans hold equal responsibility. Time to stop childish name-calling and realize all politicians are dirty.

How about Clintons, Kennedy and the rest of the democrats that said the same thing. Or are the democrats to stupid to check on facts.

We Democrats believed Bush's lies. Senator Barack Obama voted against the war.

You don't remember that, but I do. He was smarter than everyone else at that time. That's why he's leading the country now.

btj89 - And remember how W lied to us and made us think we were voting for a war against someone who had WMDs? Time to wake up.

YOU need to wake up. There were WMD's, but they were moved to Syria:

http://pjmedia.com/blog/satellite-photos-support-testimony-that-iraqi-wmd-went-to-syria/

http://www.nysun.com/foreign/iraqs-wmd-secreted-in-syria-sada-says/26514/

Remember recently that Obama told Syria "not to use WMD's.....but amazingly, the news media never asked the question "Where did Syria get WMD's"??????

"YOU need to wake up. There were WMD's, but they were moved to Syria"

Uh, no, you need to wake up. The WMD's being referred to as the justification for invading Iraq were NUCLEAR, not CHEMICAL. Big F'n difference! There is no way in hell Bush ever was going to get the public behind invading Iraq based on the threat of a chemical weapons attack on the US. The entire justification was based on Saddam's alleged nuclear weapons program. The tie in with chemical WMD was the fact that he had already used chemical WMD on his own people so the line of thinking was that if he used chemical WMD he would also use nuclear WMD. Next thing you know we're just talking about WMD as if they are the same thing and they most certainly are not.

Nuclear weapons are quite a bit different from chemical weapons and do not pose nearly the same threat. Saddam never had a nuclear weapons program and the American public would never have permitted our politicians to vote to invade Iraq based on their having and their history of using chemical weapons.

It was the totally made up lie about a nuclear weapons program, the yellow cake memo, and their alleged link to Al Queda that was the justification for a preemptive invasion.

A total Fkng lie! And they knew it. I'm guessing Obama knew it, also. He was the smartest man in the room then and still is now.

Scott Ridder; our Nuclear inspector in Iraqi, kept trying to tell us , Saddam had no, zero ,none nuclear weapons; remember the editorials , he was accused of taking bribes from Saddam, being un-American, being a radical Muslim sympathizer, it was all a drum beat to war, by Bush, to avenge his father; we have paid a terrible price, and will pay a lot more in years to come since we upset the power shift in the middle-east; where was our great 5th estate, the media, marching along to the drum beat of war!

Peridot...the vote to go war in Iraq was in 2003...Obama was serving in the Illinios state senate...he did NOT vote against going to war in Iraq. He wasn't in the senate yet..he was elected in 2006....he did not serve a complete term before being elected POTUS. The "saintly democrats" voted for the war along with the republicans...ALL are responsible.

Obama is leading the country? Then why are we gridlocked?

Ask the leader of the House and his intransigent children.

btj89

hmm I do recall that in one of the wars but one was for some other reason do you remember what that was???

Yes, W. left him with quite a mess. Fortunately, Repugnicans didn't get a chance to short-circuit the process of fixing it.

The timeline for the exit from Iraq was set by Bush, Obama did not have to do anything except negotiate a SOFA(status of forces agreement) before the pullout, He left that to Biden and it never happened, So just like originally planned by Bush the war in Iraq ended. Obama has declared Afghanistan to be the true just war and has even had a surge in forces there.

For your nitwits claiming Obama voted against either war Obama was a state senator and did not vote on either.

For those claiming that Bush lied to the Dems about WMD's if that is the case and they failed to do due diligence in finding out for themselves and they are guilty of Non Feasance for not doing their jobs, This bull crap claim that they were lied to or they would have been against the war in Iraq is a convenient lie, Before Bush was even president the Dems from Clinton on down were keen on overthrowing Saddam Hussein, Clinton bombed Iraq in 1998 on the premise that there were WMD's there. The dems share just as much responsibility for Afghanistan and Iraq and the repubs and to make any claim to the contrary is a lie.

Truly gives one an appreciation of living. Especially an "american" living amoung our vets.....and citizenry. Men, women and children walk away from death daily across this planet. It both humbles and can build honor at the same time.

What upsets me is republicans disrespect for our american govt., the constitution, the bill of rights, our unique american freedoms, the office of president and the man in it, that these solders, past and present, precisely fought and died for.

What upsets me is democrats disrespect for our american govt., the constitution, the bill of rights, our unique american freedoms, the office of president and the man in it, that these solders, past and present, precisely fought and died for.

>>For those claiming that Bush lied to the Dems about WMD's if that is the case and they failed to do due diligence in finding out for themselves and they are guilty of Non Feasance for not doing their jobs, This bull crap claim that they were lied to or they would have been against the war in Iraq is a convenient lie<<

There was no Iraqi nuclear program and all the so called intelligence saying there was was totally made up. There never was any nuclear program so therefor there was never any real intelligence to indicate there was. The in country weapons inspectors never found any evidence, the yellow cake memo was totally fake, the Al Queda connection was fiction, and the Brits even admitted they cooked up intelligence, too. All this cooked intelligence was brewed up outside of normal channels within the pentagon and evidence to the contrary was discounted, discredited, or ignored. People who spoke out about it were shunted aside and their careers side tracked or ruined, Valerie Plame, for example.

No one likes to be deceived and likes it even less when they're blamed for believing the deception.

Ironically, it is Bush's words of wisdom that offer the best future guidance: "Fool me once, shame on,,,shame on you. Fool me,,, uhhh, you can't get fooled again."

And that, sir, is one of many reasons a life long republican and many like me have left the GOP in disgust.

>>What upsets me is democrats disrespect for....the office of president and the man in it<<

You're kidding, right?

I would love to see, just once, when an article is written regarding something that includes nothing about politics, the conversation stays on the topics. This is a human interest story, yes, it's the military, who are under government control and they go where our leaders (Republican and Democrat) tell them, but this is about survivors guilt and how war can become a battle of inches. I just wish people would focus on that and not turn every article into a political bitchfest. I know wishful thinking on my part and there will always be, unfortunately, this huge partisan divide between the Dems and Repubs, especially the extreme ends, but to pull it into every article is, for lack of a better term, childish. I've seen both sides do it. I'm a Dem but I will have an intelligent conversation with a Republican who will do the same and not revert to the name calling I see so often here. There will never be total agreement between the sides and both think they are doing it in the interest of the country, and their constituents and financial backers, So if they just took the time to listen, maybe, just maybe it would be easier to come to a solution to issues.

People, people...why are we even engaging in the first grade name-calling, blame-game here? After reading this article, I was impressed with the strength of the human spirit to overcome adversity (thank you John Bennett!) but my feelings of good-will were quickly dashed by some of the initial mindless, juvenile posts. 'Dubya this....' and 'Obama that.....'. Just, maybe for once, we can stop all this 'rah-rah-rah' BS and just be good lil boys and girls? Or is that too much to ask? And, oh yeah, Happy New Year to Humanity.

Well said Defender,

Thank you, TC. I agree with what your previous post stated especially the willingness to have rational, civil conversation/debate. We should all be so open minded.

How about some perspective: D-Day, one day of WWII: 1465 dead, 3184 wounded, 1928 missing and 26 captured. Old time veterans are generally respectful of new veterans but occasionally you see a grumble about kids having it so easy in the military these days. Heh.

Peridot, Barack got reelected because the able bodied career takers enjoy taking to no end. Why not when the Wealth Speader in Chief keeps spreading the wealth.

george

You are not alone in your feelings.

Every once in a while. I have a quiet moment alone ( all by myself not a sole around ) and think back to those days in NAM. In the end I still shed tears for those who did not come back. Guess that is why the survivors of the USS ARIZONA request to be buried with their ship mates. You just can't leave those guys behind. Their spirit is always with you.

Enjoy the days you get!

Anything violent in nature also tends to be very random in nature, too. With the human body, or that of any living thing, force applied to or penetration of one area can have a completely different effect if it was as little as an eighth of an inch in some other direction. The amount of energy transferred can be a critical difference, too, and sometimes the difference between a wounding blow and a fatal blow can be only a pound or two. Often times, just barely missing an artery or a vital organ makes all the difference in the case of puncture wounds of different types.

In the context of this story, it's puncture wounds from bullets and shrapnel, but shockwaves from explosions act similarly. But we could also be talking about people participating in a bar fight; why is it one guy can have a chair smashed over his head and escapes serious harm while another guy is hit with a beer bottle and dies from it? Little more than the amount of impact energy and just where it was focused, I'm afraid! This is also true in car accidents, where two very similar types of injury can affect two people in two different instances in completely different ways.

Tornadoes can be a lot like this, too. Not only do they often skip around a lot, missing one home entirely but totally flattening one right next to it, but sometimes what is and isn't affected right where one strikes is equally as baffling. I've heard many stories of people who narrowly escaped a tornado that destroyed their entire house but somehow left the one corner they happened to be hiding in alone. I've heard just as many stories of people who didn't survive a tornado because they happened to be in the only part of the house that suffered any real damage and it was the flying glass from that one window which blew out or that tree that fell through the roof right where they were that got them.

Sometimes what happens is what happens and there isn't anything that can be done about it one way or the other.

Amen George. Well put

Isn't this the same for any shooting death?

"oh well nobody made them join"

What the he77 is wrong with you? People sign up for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is a true desire to defend the constitution against all threats, both foreign and domestic.

Had they not been there to respond before and after 911, your wife might be wearing a burka right now. It's good we have a volunteer military because had you been conscripted with the corralary to your inferred attitude, I wouldn't want you on my 6.

Most join for patriotic reasons. Good to know that you aren't tainted with that brush, Plain Bob.

plain bob

Nobody makes a cop become a cop, nor a fireman a fireman. They do it out a sense of loyalty to family, friends and country. They don't do it for fame nor glory. They do it because it is their calling. Same goes for our armed forces. If it were not for them we all would be poorer as a people. Bravery comes in many shape and form. The above mentioned people are our nations finest.

Hope you don't choke on a beer.

We join so you can take for the granted the freedoms you enjoy so very much there plain bob. We join so you can sit on your backside and complain. We join because no one else will. If not for those that join our military, we would not be the United States of America. If not for those willing to sign that blank check to the United States of America, we would not be able to make jack ass comments like yours. We would not be our own independent nation, if not for those that have served, are serving now, or will serve in the future.

what ya'll got is a panty wad problem...you girl's needed to spend some time in nam...drafted...

There would be a lot less unnecessary war if Americans that are against said "Hell no, we won't go".

When a enemy force steps on American soil I'm all in.

Let let the Politicians fight the next combat war, I guarantee it would be one of the shortest wars on the record books.

yupp...good thing those Saudi terrorist didn't set up base camp...in Canada...i hate it if a bunch of patriots attacked the wrong country...again...LOL...

DJN- you'd be out of WWII then, wouldn't you. Nice and safe......

Armor has always been a good idea, it just hasn't always been a practical idea!

Early leather and heavy cloth armor did a fair enough job of dispersing the energy from blows from various types of impact weapons such as whips and canes and offered some protection from ancient weapons such as the 'cat o' nine tails'. Chain mail and sheet metal armor could protect the wearer from a strike from a broadsword pretty well. Unfortunately, the arrow from a long bow had the hardness and sectional density needed for the kinetic energy it possessed in flight to penetrate sheet metal armor. When firearms came on the scene, metallic armor that an adult male could actually wear and still move around in was pretty much obsolete. Making the metal even thicker would probably defeat most low velocity, large caliber bullets...but the warrior would be hard pressed to actually fight, in which case he might as well just stay at home and avoid the whole thing! If you can barely move, you can't defend your territory. If you can't defend your territory, your invaders could be unarmored and overrun you with ease. When that happens, your land becomes their land! Not good. Thus, armor was largely forgotten about.

After the turn of the 20th century, more soldiers were killed in combat by shrapnel from exploding artillery shells than from rifle bullets. Thus, the steel helmet debuted early in WWI. Body armor was in use by WWII, also intended to stop shrapnel, and was manifest in the form of the aviator's flak vest since flak was exploding artillery shells directed at aircraft and the black puff of smoke from an exploding shell was accompanied by thousands of hot, jagged steel fragments that would tear through the aluminum and fabric skin of an aircraft fuselage and seriously injure or kill crew members. Kevlar and other aramid fibers developed in the 1970's had such strength and heat resistance that they could arrest projectiles, within reason, and provided there's enough fibers where said projectile impacts, to make wearable armor a viable concept once again. They're not particularly good for stopping bullets, though they'll work for low velocity, larger diameter handgun bullets that are soft enough to mushroom or else are designed to expand or fragment upon impact, such as a hollow point. Fast, pointed rifle bullets will generally go through both sides of a Kevlar or other type of soft armor vest. It was ceramics technology that actually made insert plates that would stop many rifle bullets possible! In any case, it's still shrapnel that kills most soldiers in combat, and soft body armor does an excellent job of stopping that. The ceramic ballistic inserts for vests are ironic in that they'll stop high powered rifle bullets, but are labeled 'do not drop'.

the TiGor,

"Armor has always been a good idea, it just hasn't always been a practical idea!"

Yes. You are correct. I was wrong in my original post about there being no use of body armor in WWI and WWII aside from the helmet. I looked it up later and found out that there was some used of it, but it was not as extensively used as it is nowadays. As you mentioned, flack jackets and vests were used by aircrews in WWII and flack vests were used in Vietnam. The main reason it was not used so much in the two world wars was because it was too heavy and inhibited the soldier's movements and didn't afford as much protection as it does now. Thanks for the post.

Thanks, Mickey.

You weren't far from wrong. The flak vest was limited mostly to aircrew, and I gather that it really wasn't used all that much. Part of it was that it was heavy, and on combat aircraft, weight is always a major concern! For instance, on the B-17, I believe the rated crew weight was 1200 lbs. That's for ten men, who with full leather and wool flying gear and side arms, would each tip the scales at 120 lbs. each? I think I remember hearing that those vests were in the neighborhood of 40 pounds each, meaning that a crew of ten wearing them would add 400 pounds total to the aircraft. That's almost the weight of a general purpose demolition bomb, or else about a dozen belts of .50 BMG and some, or even another 50+ gallons of fuel.

Ballistic vests utilizing Nylon came into use by ground troops in 1952, with an improvement (mostly the addition of a collar, if I recall) in either 1967 or 69. This updated vest was used until just a few years ago. It wasn't really bullet resistant at all, but it did a very good job of stopping fragments.

I do recall that the Communist forces encountered in Korea did sometimes wear body armor of some sort, and that the .357 Magnum revolver cartridge was found to defeat it fairly well. For that matter, we also learned that the Moros in the Philippines had some sort of body armor in use, too, but I suspect it was more a method of minimizing bleeding from wounds than anything else. This was a bit over 100 years ago now, and this allegedly is where the adoption of the .45 Automatic cartridge by the US government in 1911 came from. The double action .38 Colt M1892 revolver and cartridge adopted to replace the .45 Colt M1873 Single Action Army revolver was said to have proven ineffective against Moro insurgents, though I suspect narcotics may have had something to do with that and that the only weapons truly effective in that case would have been one of the .30 caliber service rifles of the time (M1903 'Springfield' or M1892 'Krag') or possibly the Winchester 1897 shotgun if any made it over there, and I suspect that at least a couple probably did.

Also, there were supposed 'bulletproof vests' in civilian use in the early 1930's, mostly by law enforcement, but also coveted and said to be sometimes stolen by the likes of the Dillinger gang and others. I don't know what those were made from and I most certainly wouldn't want to trust my life and health to one! Maybe against the .32 and bottom end .38 revolver loads and birdshot from shotguns they might be adequate. I'd think that .38 Special, .44 Special, and maybe even the .45 caliber pistol and revolver rounds available at the time would be likely to defeat them. Something I'll have to look up one of these days...

a wise combat veteran of the viet nam war once told me, there is no such thing as a bullet proof vest, bullet resistant yes, bullet proof ......uh no....he had been there , got the t shirt , and had the scars to prove it!

the TiGor,

"I think I remember hearing that those vests were in the neighborhood of 40 pounds each"

Thanks, TiGor! You certainly know a lot more about body armor than I do. It sounds like you were in the military. I was in the Air Force and used to fly missions on the RC-135's. We didn't wear flack jackets, because there was no need to, but we did have parachutes in case we got shot down. I would hate to think how difficult it would be trying to struggle into a parachute harness while wearing a flack jacket. I think even now weight is a problem. Our guys are so loaded down with heavy equipment it is hard for them to even walk, much less fight. I was reading that book that came out recently, No Easy Day: The Autobiography of a Navy SEAL, by that SEAL who was on the team that killed Bin Laden, and who goes by the pen name of Mark Owen. He writes a little about the weight problem in that book. Apparently each SEAL was allowed to decide for himself what equipment he wanted to take along on any mission. He says about one mission they were on in Kunar province, Afghanistan, along with some Army Rangers against some Taliban: "We pretty much had all the latest in tactical fashion. Each one of us was a professional who knew exactly what they needed for the job, and it was up to the individual operator to carry what he needed. 'Some of these guys aren't even wearing their plates,' said one of the soldiers". Apparently, the Kevlar plates, which he mentions a number of times in the book, were so cumbersome that some of the soldiers didn't even wear them, although it increased their risk of being killed. When they were climbing the mountain trail to where the Taliban were located, he says: "It was the end of the road. The trail narrowed and got steeper as we patrolled deeper into the valley. With every step I could feel the altitude and the weight of my equipment trying to slow me down. I was getting tired, and we were only halfway. I hoped all this effort was going to be worth it." So they weight of all that equipment they have to wear is still a problem now.

You're welcome, Mickey.

I try to keep up on developments, but it's tough sometimes, and history on some things can be a bit sketchy, too.

After having a night to sleep on it, I'm thinking that the flak vests were actually an RAF development but Avro Lancaster crews just didn't have the room available to wear them and do their job at the same time! It is my understanding that they were then handed over to the USAAF and were used mostly by the 8th AF on some runs where a lot of 'triple A' was thought to be positioned near the target.

It had escaped my mind yesterday that silk once had been used for bullet resistant garments, and this is perhaps what the Moros in the Philippines had been using if what they had offered any ballistic resistance. If not, then it was probably like they were just 'pre bandaging' themselves to minimize blood loss from wounds so they could remain effective combatants longer. I do recall reading or hearing at some point that Archduke Ferdinand was thought to have been wearing silk 'armor' when he was assassinated by Gavrilo Princip in Sarajevo on 28 June 1914. If this is true, it may have been able to stop the .32 automatic bullet fired from the FN model 1910 pistol that the nineteen year old Princip was using. However, the archduke was struck in the throat and the bullet severed the jugular, so armor just wasn't likely to save him.

Speaking of WWI, I'm thinking that's when the Brewster Body Shield came along. I could have been mistaken about the flak vests being 40 pounds...it might just be that the Brewster Body Shield was and the flak vests were somewhat less. I believe the Germans experimented with something similar, as well, but neither saw any widespread use. Besides the weight, I'd imagine the amount of high quality steel that production required would pose an insurmountable burden to nations at war.

Yes, weight is a real issue for all infantry, but especially the so called 'light infantry' such as the Spec Ops community where they have to carry everything they'll need with them. This was the real reason for the so-called 'assault rifle' - the main focus was weight savings in the rifle and ammunition so troops on the move (as in the middle of a military assault on an objective) would have somewhat less weight to contend with as they were already laden with full rucksacks, rations, water, entrenching tools, comm gear, etc.

While body armor can help save your hide if you get hit by bullets or shrapnel, I'd venture to say that you're better off not getting hit in the first place and if your armor limits your mobility, taking cover to avoid being hit by either takes longer and becomes much more difficult. The tradeoff is sometimes be armored but slower, or being unarmored but faster and/or more agile.

Thanks again, Mickey. Nice to correspond with a fellow blue suiter!

Take it easy and have a great start to the new year.

the TiGor,

"Thanks again, Mickey. Nice to correspond with a fellow blue suiter!"

Same to you, TiGor. I enjoyed reading your enlightening posts. I didn't know you were in the Air Force, too. I'm retired. Are you serving currently? I had you pegged for the Marine Corps with your knowledge of body armor. That's something we don't have a great deal of use for in the Air Force unless you are an SP assigned to base defense or something like that. You take it easy, too, and have a happy new year.

That's something we don't have a great deal of use for in the Air Force unless you are an SP assigned to base defense or something like that.

Keen observation!

Haven't been active duty for years, injured too badly to stay in. The VA does a good job of taking care of me, though. I am, however, likely to be a 'lifer' with the Civil Air Patrol, which has been convenient since I was able to repurpose most everything USGI I already had on hand. Mostly I do SAR work, but when something needs to be safeguarded or marshaled, the wing staff officers always call on me to do it.

"Haven't been active duty for years, injured too badly to stay in."

If you were an SP, that would explain your extensive knowledge of weapons and body armor, but I'm sorry to hear you were injured, TiGor. At least you have found another worthwhile calling in the CAP, though. It's been nice chatting with you. Take care!

Boss: the draft was suspended Mar 73. Everyone enlisting afterwards was voluntary. Specforce/Special Operations Command has always been qualified volunteers.

Ut ceteri vivant. Nemo unus vulnere.

That is a popular opinion shared by many who have not been there, For those who have been there they often have a different perspective.

While I did not originally agree with the war in Viet Nam my time spent there changed that, The problem with Viet Nam was after time no one at home really had the stomach to do what was necessary, During WWI and WWII the people at home supported our troops, There were War bond rallies and a returnng soldier was looked upon a a hero, Korea changed that, While people did somewhat treat returning vets as heros there was no real enthusiam for the war because most peolple did not know whhere Korea was and they had not threatened any of the European countries where many American had rooted heritage and even relatives, Then came Viet Nam and most people had no idea where it was or why we were there, Again there was no direct threat to Europe, When my father returned home from WWII he would proudly wear his uniform and talk of his service to his country When I returned home from Viet Nam I took off my uniform and did not put it back on for a long time, I was not ashamed of my service but it just was not worth the trouble of dealing with people spitting on you or calling you a baby killer or murderer. I am thankful that our returning vets are treated with the respect that they deserve, Yes there are still some jerks out there but I think most realize that they went to serve their country after 9/11 and the people are thankful for their service.

Oh...my body armor was a M-1952 Frag Vest, Uncomfortable and hot, Did not stop small arms, I eventually upgraded to the M-1969, Still hot and uncomfortable but a little better except when wearing your M1 steel pot.

My statement is from Mom's perspective....I have sent him to Iraq twice and am trying to wrap my head around his upcoming Afghanistan tour...I will always support his decision and I will always thank and support all who serve...but, the countries are not worth our blood when, at our exit it reverts back to what it was...

...but, the countries are not worth our blood when, at our exit it reverts back to what it was...

Imagine if France had adopted that attitude in 1778, We might still be under British Rule

The reason most people feel disassociated with the Wars in the Middle East are because we do not see them as necessary, We do not see the ME as an immediate threat as we did the WWI & WWII, For most of us our heritage is in Europe and GB, After 9/11 we immediately associated factions in the ME as a threat to the US, as those wars have dragged on we no longer perceive the threat and tire of war.

We established a democracy and a constitution...we I'd not establish a Taliban like dictatorship...

I do know that my perspective is very selfish. It is filled with the fears that every Mom, Dad, Son, Daughter, Wife and Husband faces when they watch there loved one board a plane knowing full well the next time you see them they could be in a body bag. We also face that realization that the vast majority of the politicians in this country will never experience that fear. And although I was young wippersnapper during and after Vietnam I do know that the treatment of our veterans can NEVER sink to that level again...Thank You..

TJ -

I hope you will join me in asking that our troops are looked over and cared for. We have one marine in Afghan now, and an Army sergeant recently mustered out after a deployment there as well.

Having said that, I will digress and echo the sentiments of previous posters who have pointed out how often a centimeter/inch or a second can make in terms of survival. (Random? Ordained?)

Tj - may your son return to you whole and healthy. And you are right that those countries are not worth one drop of US blood.

I never served in Afghanistan, but I did deploy to Iraq. I can tell you we weren't doing much. Hands were tied by politics. ROE was extremely strict and the judicial process was a joke. if we could prove they commited crimes against us they would only get locked away for 6 months and then be right back on the streets. It's pretty humiliating when you put a lot of time and effort into locking someone away and a few moths later seeing them right back doing the same @!$%#. I can't help but feel that war was only about profit.

Thank you for your service, slovak. It seems that after Viet Nam we forgot that the military exists to kill the enemy and blow things up.

A kinder, gentler military dedicated to "nation building?" Don't know the right or wrong of that, but it sure seems to cost us a lot of our troop's blood. And, I think, it makes it easier for the pols to "unleash the hounds of war." (That just can't be right.)

Elvis was in Germany guzzling beer. They put him there to keep him out of harms way.

............elvis? ...it's too bad... nixion an elvis spend alot time doin wonderments on the status of lennons whereabouts..... scary

but to their effect you can't let a brit get too legit lessen they thenk it's on to take to the old white

and this still reaps of a bad trip...mean while in the jungle...

uhh... i think elvis might have a different approach to his opinion that you sir

he was the KING of rock and roll!

nobody will be doin no figuring when the KING is on his throne

and you best be gone on goodbye big bird by the time he gets back out to his limo drive machine cause the engines will be howlin all summer long!!!!!!!!!!

What are you a guy that ran to Canada!!!???

i spent some time in alaska once...but didn't make it to canada... was to the right?

when nights are days and days are nights you don't have much time to consider who's right or who's wrong you just gotta keep rowin if they set you at the control pannels for the hour

if you smash an iceberg it's gonna be rosemary curtains for everybody

ENDRUST, I have news for you: my husband is a Vietnam war veteran. Whether you like it or not, whether you care for the nomenclature or not, that's his veteran status. So is my best friend. You may not consider them wars, but they certainly were to my friends who died and are memorialised on the Wall.

Endrust, before you go shooting off your mouth, you need to make sure your brain is properly loaded. Please spend a little time checking out a dictionary before you try shouting what a veteran is or isn't.

I don't know what you did in 1971 but, whatever it was it didn't include improving your vocabulary.

ENDRUST,

Your rationalization implying that all veterans in the military that served after WW2 are somehow war criminals, leads me to believe that you needed psych help that you never received, after whatever happened to you in 1971.

For your sake and for the sake of your family and your local community, try to talk it out with people before you rejoin the human race, eh? Don't expect converts to your mindset though, unless you want to drag naive people down with you that you specifically target, in your long-rooted cynicism.

I'm sure it occurred to you that people join to serve the military for many reasons other that what you believe, but that wouldn't conveniently fit into your political frame of reference, now would it?

But I'll give you credit ...because you've posted up what you believe -- albeit your hyperbole demonstrates logical fallacies that's understandable for someone in your position that has experienced things in your life from a perspective we may have not -- at least it shows you're trying to connect with others, and that's a good start. By doing so, that will challenge you by the responses you'll get from others, and it'll get you out of your comfort zone of misery by forcing you to either defend and/or rethink what you say, with feedback from others here on the NewsVine.

leads me to believe that you needed psych help that you never received, after whatever happened to you in 1971.

My guess is he probably burned his draft card and skipped off to Canada in 1971 and that is why he stated:

Are you ever going to figure it out?

I did. In 1971.

Endrust -

descend in flames!

Endrust...You are a waste of skin.....

These men are all Veterans no matter how You try to define it. God bless all of the Veterans esp. those who gave all. God bless all of you Thank You

Endrust - You should have learned a great many things since 1971. Deference for one. And how to get that persona under control. It's way past time for you to deal with your issues of inadequacy.

(Ideally this "liquid body armor" should be laminated with other types of light weight body armor as well. Using these latest technologies we can finally have full body armor in the field, if only for our front line 'shock troops'. (Our police here at home need it, too!)) - RC

body armor? ....no

i'd likely do my scountin bare blued nude with the exception of a tight grip n handle pair of flip lips and my steel toes....heck

(The President of the United States should really be leading these kinds of leading edge R+D projects for our troops in the field as Commander in Chief.) - RC

shame he's a little more impressioned by my flip lips than hunter safety

not implimenting that he's a conquistador

but he certain takes a walk down the corridor i reckon

(Former U.S. Special Forces, 6th Group (Psyops) & 5th Group (X-Trained - weapons, engineers & communications; also jump (night & day) trained, mountain (climbing) trained, scuba (closed & open circuit) trained, snow ski trained), top "Go Team" Ft. Bragg, N.C., ETS from active duty 1972) - RC

(I was just starting my backpack SADM nuke training when I volunteered to leave, and I turned down a $10,000 reup bonus and 16 weeks detached to the U.S. Navy for underwater navy medical diving school which included hard hat diving. (Believe it or not, everyone, I was already carrying the weight of the entire world on my personal shoulders back then, on top of everything else military which I was into.) - RC

(I even made the final winning run down the side of Seven Devil's Mountain (N.C.) in the very first SF Winter Olympics (A-Team 132, many thanks, Capt. Hayworth, for having unfailing confidence in me!). They tried like hell to keep me in, at a time when they were also trying for a 50% force cut back in U.S. Special Forces, starting with an $8000 re-up bonus, before upping it to $10,000. They said they weren't legally allowed to promise me a promotion if I stayed in, but they said they could practically promise me a future promotion if only when I completed my future training. What they didn't know is what I couldn't tell them, that these ETs were hot on my heels, starting with 3 risers over my chute (had to be intentional) which is practically unheard of. I ended up with a collapsed arch in one of my feet, a torn rotator cuff in my right shoulder, and the beginnings of new inguinal hernia. But when they offered me the additional 16 weeks in Navy medical diving school as an added inducement for re-upping, unbeknownst to them they actually pushed me out the door, because I already knew I had multiple heart arrhythmia as the result of a previous flight physical which I opted to take on Christmas leave with my grandfather's private retired military flight physician (Dr. Allison) preliminary to my SF scuba school. I personally knew that these heart arrhythmias represented no risk to my SF team mates, because I could already hold my breath underwater for over 5 minutes before I even graduated from high school (MCHS), and the U.S. military had already measured my lung capacity as being over 5 liters during my previous SF medical training. I was also the only one ever to pass the timed qualification SURFACE swim for SF scuba on one single breath of air completely under water (I did secretly hyperventilate before making the underwater qualification swim attempt). - RC

I'm having to hold a long breath too.

Average human lung capacity...6 liters.

Thank you, dude is just trolling

And spending hours at pysical effort in a hot and dusty environment carrying the added non-breathing weight?

Some interesting work is being done on making light weight body armour such as the liquid body armour as well as improved Kevlar designs that are segmented and somewhat flexible that will stop almost all small arms fire. Now the Taliban doesn't have this type of armour so when they go up against our troops they will be exposed and likewise our troops would be much better protected against guerrilla styled attacks that the Taliban relies on. However eventually everybody will be wearing armour except the civilians which will be shot up. Also what if a criminals gets this armour. Back in 2004 or so in California some criminals had been wearing body armour and they were extremely difficult to to be brought down by the police. True war sucks. However Hawkish Neocons suck even more so if we have to go to war then we need to provide our troops the very best

i was just thinkin...............sall

i was thinkin....what's them abuse hogs ropin in the final 3rd...when it isn't or if it ever was

who knows but we wonder it alot out on that kct rice patty

ever seen the horizon on a blueback of a december morning and think......if it wasn't the beauty of the angels vestals crossin the turnpike along the way i don't know what isn't

but i could cross my mind over it (and my fingers twice even)

Naturally stoned plus..............

It's irrelevant whether you care for the term or not; it is a psychological diagnosis of a human condition which naturally arises in wartime. It has nothing to do with the military 'making' anyone feel anything.

This syndrome goes back to the Roman era, Hoosier. It happens whether you care for the term or not. It's always a feeling of guilt. I felt it when my sister died of brain cancer when I was 7 and she was 18. Why did she fall ill and I remain healthy? It's been with me all my life.

What should it be called? Survivor's what?

Most cancer survivors are very familiar with the feeling...and the question, Why me? Nurses are often asked as if they know. Nothing is ever simple again.

you can't make a car go more fast without a bigger seat belt

ain't never knew a cowboy to kick a grenaid down the goal line to score the big pig skin match if you understood what i'm alludin to

an i never knew what a bat could do but fly when i heard the click of the old dust storm rollin by

“Their motto is don't tread on me.”