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A Southern California teenager who was fatally shot while handcuffed by police last Wednesday was armed during the incident, a police spokesperson said Monday.
The suspect, later identified as Lamon Khiry Haslip, 18, died Friday night.
Haslip’s friends and neighbors, including Pastor Caleb Henderson, have admitted that Haslip was a gang member, but contest the way in which he was killed.
"No one should be shot, handcuffed with hands behind their back," Henderson said.
Read more from NBCLosAngeles.com
Byttany Haines and her boyfriend Daniel Aguilar said they saw the deadly incident up close.
"He didn't move; he wasn't screaming; he didn't try to resist; he was handcuffed," Aguilar said.
The Riverside County Sheriff’s office told NBC4 that a deputy chased down and arrested Haslip while responding to a "man with a gun" call. When backup arrived, the office said Haslip "rolled over" and revealed a gun.
Haines said that’s when deputies started screaming for the teen to “get down.”
"And you hear one shot and he doesn't move after that, you know he’s dead," Haines said. "I started screaming, I cried and I just kept yelling, 'Call the news, you guys can’t just do that to people.'"
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Aguilar said the incident was disturbing.
"I felt like crying you know because I never seen anyone get popped like that," Aguilar said.
Anita Morris, Haslip’s aunt, said the man’s father is in prison and his mother lives out of state. Morris said she always believed Haslip would turn his life around and is devastated he won’t get that chance.
"I like him to be remembered by his smile," Morris said.
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Leave a Comment:
So I guess he was neither an altar boy or choir boy?
She felt like crying, for what, a gang banger? And how many people have you seen "pooped"? You witnessed murders and did not tell the police?
Yes the police can if you threaten them with a weapon.
Known gang banger, father in prison, mother living on state, looks a cop just saved us a lot of tax dollars, not to mention he would have been out within a couple of days to start packing again and shoot someone next time. As fpr that last part about shooting someone, don't take that wrong, I am NOT anti gun. I own several and pack legally.
Someone better do some fact checking here.
He rolled over and revealed a gun. That tells me he was already on the ground. So why did the police yell for him to get down ? Sounds more like someone is telling a rather tall tale here.
So who do I fear the most?? Gang bangers that will shoot me or trigger happy police???
Scary times.
Why did he still have his gun after being arrested? Piss Poor Police work in a full circle........
Agreed! Give that officer a medal of freedom. He's a hero!
There's not a lot of info in the story. Was the guy laying face down on the ground with his hands handcuffed behind his back? Did he then roll over with the gun in his pants "gangsta style". It didn't say anything about the gun actually being in his hands. Did the cops have prior knowledge he was a banger? I know now he was a gang member and has probably robbed and shot people himself. What if you happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? Ayear or two ago cops in Des Moines,IA wer looking for a "man with a gun". One of them saw a man with a gun across the street and popped off a few rounds at him. Luckily he was a bad shot and missed. The guy being shot at was a TV reporter standing outside the station talking on his cell phone. He had nothing to do with the original police call and was damn near killed for having a phone.
And the problem is?
yes...it takes a hell of a man to shoot a hand cuffed 18 year old...there's no doubt...
He had the chance and this was his choice. Now It is only fair for those to post below the many post with the good things he did to help people and society and why he will be missed.
Famous last words. Love the idiots who think nothing can be done while handcuffed.
So, murder is ok if the victim is in a gang? Or, is it ok because the kid was black?
plain bob,
"yes...it takes a hell of a man to shoot a hand cuffed 18 year old...there's no doubt..."
Handcuffed with his hands behind his back on the ground. Even if he rolled over and revealed a gun, he would not have been in a position to use it very effectively, and yet the cops shot to kill; not just to wound. That calls for an investigation, I think.
This make me wonder. If the folks who have been saying that the kid got what he deserved,are happy he is dead so he won't be a tax burden but your against abortion? Typical right-wingers.
I get it, I get it. We all hate gang members, but how can you miss the part where the suspect was handcuffed with hands behind his back? Then rolled over (assuming one can only roll over when on something.) and the fact that a cop got close enough to handcuff him and place him on something that he could actually roll over without even frisking him? I don't care who he was, the cops have protocols they must follow and that is why they are law enforcement and not well...a gang. Am I concern about the suspect passing, not really, but I am concern about the manner of how he died.
Micket
shoot to wound? this is the real world, not T.V.
Somehow I knew before I ever read a word or saw a picture. I don't believe all of the evidence has come out yet. And of course we all know that most folks will lie about police at all costs.
He is a gang member, a thug, someone who preys on the weaker people in society
We dont' know whether or not the kid had a chacnce Liz. We were not there.
More good news for the new year. One less piece of crap running around. Good job cops!!!
Bleeding heart Mickey, glad to see you support crime. If this piece of crap was obeying the law, things like this would not happen. No investigation is needed. The police risk their life everyday against garbage like this and you defend crap. It sounds like the whole family is a waste, maybe you could support them, get them a nice house in your area.
Again, glad to see more worthless garbage off the street.
Tell that to the cop, who in this case acted like a panicked coward.
That really isn't the point, Elvis. The point is that he was already in handcuffs, with his hands behind him when he was shot.
There's no way to justify that, even if he was a gang-banger and not a choir boy.
I don't buy that culheath. Police are trained to keep their cool so I'm sure he didn't act like a panicked coward. He may have been afraid but he was not a coward.
You face a gun and tell me you wouldn't be afraid. I've faced one long years ago and it terrified me. I couldn't move, just stood there looking down the barrel of that thing.
elayne One less piece of crap running around.
Are you a christian? Would your god say that bull$hit. That question is for all of you folks saying that this man is dead. When you say that $hit does that make you feel real god like?
Given that one can only roll over while in a prone position, why would the deputies scream at him to "get down"?
Why would the arresting officer not have searched the teen at the time when the cuffs were applied?
Why would a person with his hands cuffed behind his back seek to start a shootout with the police?
Sorry, I'm not one to scream police brutality every time a punk gets slapped around during an arrest, but this case stinks on ice.
Considering the incredibly poor reporting on the Martin/Zimmerman case. (To the point of altering the 911 tape to make the incident into something it was not) I think we should wait for complete information before making judgements.
IA.ScooterTramp,
"shoot to wound? this is the real world, not T.V."
Yes, and in the real world the police have to be held accountable for their actions the same as the criminals do.
Smitty,
God, hmmm. If you believe in god, you would know that when your time is up, it's up. Don't preach religion.
This piece of crap was not a kid and he was not a man. You bleeding hearts do not realize that this garbage would kill you and your family in a minute.
And yes, I feel good about it, not god like.
Knew what, Deborah, that the shooting was justifiable in some bizarre manner?
Why do you assume that witnesses are all lying when a) even the police admit the individual was in cuffs at the time of the shooting b) that they apparently did not perform a custodial search at the time of the arrest and c) they describe him as rolling over, yet claim to have been screaming at him to "get down".
This youth may have been a gang member. He may have been guilty of any number of criminal offenses. But in our society every individual is entitled to equal treatment under the law. In our society the police are not empowered to mete out summary justice at the point of a gun.
It depends, according to the media.
If the cop who shot him is black, there isn't really even a story. If it's a white cop who shot him, it's the crime of the century...or crime of the month, until they can find another race-warfare crime to report.
Just a few months ago two W.Va. state troopers were killed by a handcuffed punk that had a gun hid in his pants. If this kid was a gang banger hoodrat he needed shot regardless of the situation.
Elayne, some of us "bleeding hearts" believe in the rule of law, and that even the worst criminal is deserving of due process of law before he [or she] can be deprived of life, liberty or property.
This concept is clearly stated in our Constitution, in the Fifth Amendment. Even the most strict constructionists would admit as much.
Well then Smitty, what would be your grand plan. The perp must hit at least two officers before they can shoot? Maybe you would rather read a story about some police officers getting shot? The idiot had a gun and known gang affiliation. Oh yeah, and the girl in the story heard the shot and said,"someone has been shot, call the news!" The first people I would call would be EMS. Something stinks in this story.
elayne I'm not preaching. Just listen to yourself read what you post. I'm glade your proud of what you post. It makes you look like a hate monger. I said this before When you post like elayne you sound like the taliban. Think about it.
You know dman,I knew he was too young to even blow his nose alone. These people are stolen into a life of crime by a lack of parental guidance, love and spankings.
God loved this young man just like he does all of us. This young man chose his life and he paid the consequences for that life.
If you life in crime you will die in crime MOST of the time. He died in crime.
If I can get my hands on a gun while handcuffed, with hands behind my back, I can make you dance and possible do a lot of damage with that gun. Gang bangers do not aim anyway, spray and pray is the order of the day. There is no such thing as shoot to wound in the police business, unless you are in California and the bank robbers have body armor on. Oh I'm sorry, that was way back, but still a good example of Barney Fife still in uniform. the big question and the direction the investigation should take is simple: why was the suspect no patted down and cleared of any weapons after he was placed in cuffs? Why was he, a known gang memeber, still sitting outside of the cruiser? Did he point the weapon at the officers, or did they just see the gun when he started struggling? Who knows, except for the witnesses and most of them will make this out to be some kind of hate crime. Sounds like the police fumbled the ball, the crook took advantage of it, not the smartest thing to do in cuffs, and they shot him. Not rocket science and probably a completely legal shoot.
Interesting point, Joe- Dirt. I found a new report of the incident (http://wvgazette.com/News/201208280216), and it is true that police reportedly had already cuffed the suspect when he pulled a gun and began firing. It does not relate whether his hands were cuffed in front of him, or behind his back.
But that does not justify your second statement, "If this kid was a gang banger hoodrat he needed shot regardless of the situation.".
The only justification possible, would be if he indeed had a gun in hand.
You people that feel sorry for this useless piece of crap are part of the problem and why we have gang-bangers all over the country robbing, killing, raping, dealing drugs, running sexual slavery rings and terrorizing inner cities . Maybe if the cops start killing anyone gang member they arrest that has a gun the gang culture will cease to exist. I don't give a damn about how they BECAME the animals they are, since even dogs understand the difference between right and wrong. dman - save your "rule of law" idiocy for those like yourself who have never been victimized by gangs. I lost two friends that were police officersl; one in a shoot-out with a Crip and the other in an MS-13 related incident. When the "rule of law" does not work, you MAKE the law that does. Enough said - give the cop who prevented this gang-banger from a future of crime and mayhem a medal.
Exactly. He's an idiot. Probably didn't have a concealed weapons permit and didn't tell the police he had a weapon.
Probably one of the first few things that they asked him before taking him in custody.
A: Yes
Smitty,
Not taliban. An american who is fed up with the justice system, I am fed up with garbage that feel that they can hurt anyone and not pay the price. Fed up with parents - breeders that don't care about what they produce and my tax money supports them.
Maybe you may enjoy walking the street and feel safe, but most do not. You have to lock your doors even when in the house. Crime has gotten way out of hand and it has to stop and if exterminating it is the way, so be. It seems there is no other way, because this garbage made the decision to be like this and they don't care about you, me or anyone else.
Some one breaks into my house and I should welcome them. NO! Shoot to kill! Wound them, why? For them to do it again after my tax dollar paid their medical bill, and fed them while in jail.
The only difference between street garbage and government is the money being made!
As usual, the cop hating cowards second guess officers' actions from the comfort of their keyboard. They wouldn't last 1 day on the force.
dman and @!$%#ty
As said, I support the police 100%. If either one of you could do better, join the force. Are you men enough to put a badge on and go into the streets as a sitting target? I don't think you are. To put your life on the line for someone. I do not think you are.
Taliban my foot! Do process of law for garbage. What do process does garbage give to a victim? NONE!!! They take and kill for themselves. Cop-killers do it for the joy and recognition. When this justice defends the victims and takes the garbage out back and destroys them, well maybe some justice will be done.
Again, I am glad the police exterminated this garbage. Have no respect for his family and lack of backbone for this crap or lack of respect for others not to try and do the right thing. You would kill a mad dog, well, this crap isn't any better.
I agree, and it is already in the works. Per this release from the Sheriff-coroner's office, Haslip was on the ground, hands cuffed behind his back, when one officer stepped back and said 'He has a gun' Then shots were fired killing the suspect. The report says they found a gun on him, but no info has been released on where on his person it was found, what make, model and type:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
During a subsequent search of the suspect, officers recovered a loaded handgun from his person. Officers immediately rendered medical aid and summoned paramedics to the location. The suspect was pronounced deceased on scene.
The decedent has been identified as Lamon Khiry Haslip, 18 years old, of Ontario, California. The involved officer was placed on administrative leave per department policy. No officers were injured in this incident.
The Moreno Valley Police Department and the Riverside County Sheriff's Department are actively seeking anyone who was present or may have information regarding this case. We strongly encourage anyone who may have information to call Investigator Corey at the Central Homicide Unit at 951-955-2777 or Investigator Nelson at the Moreno Valley Police Department at 951-486-6700. Information can also be reported anonymously through the Riverside County Sheriff's Department- Homicide Tip Line at the Sheriff's Homicide Tipline.
JP - And whom will make the decision as to what constitutes a gang-banger, rapist or sex-slave traffickers?
The police are not derived from some separate, more saintly species than humanity. While I believe most of them are honest and desire to do a good job, they too have their flaws and some a venal and corrupt.
The laws which prevent the police conducting an open season on certain types of criminals are not there solely to protect criminals, they are to protect all private citizens from police or other civil authorities who might otherwise misuse their power.
This is not a new, bleeding heart, liberal concept. It has been present in our society practically since its inceptions, and is based on English laws dating back to the Magna Carta (signed by King John in 1215).
For all those questioning the "get down" bit of the article, the video made a comment that the girl heard the police yelling "get down." The authors of the story assumed that they were yelling at the guy with the gun. It is entirely possible they were yelling at their fellow deputies to "get down" as in "get some cover."
I don't care what physical state you are in; you pull a gun on a cop, you will get shot. Righteous shooting to defend other lives. And to those talking about stunning or wounding, you do not handicap yourself when faced with deadly force. Shoot center mass as trained and eliminate the threat. You do not put others in danger for the safety of the gunman.
elayne....Speaking as a voting Republican....you are as scary as any gangbanger....frankly you're worse..you hide behind your shield of zealotry like its something to be proud of...passing judgement and cheering the death of a human being who was on the ground and in handcuffs......I can see you clearly in the stands of the coliseum cheering when the people who don't past your muster are fed to the lions.
Or do you save your tough talk for the internet where you are anonymous and noone can hold you accountable for your words? Would you be so quick to run your mouth face to face with that boys family?
There are very few facts in this badly written and reported article.....as it reads now that young man was shot, on the ground, handcuffed.... that was not a good shoot..that was an execution.
it's funny you can judge him and his entire family all from an article. you must really think you are god.
If he had a gun in hand and posed a legitimate danger the police were right to shoot. However, what many of you miss is the fact that it should never have come to that in the first place. What kind of police officer fails to check a suspect for weapons once he's been subdued and handcuffed?
Any decent police officer will tell you that shooting a suspect is a last resort because doing so destroys a human life and eliminates forever the chance (however small) that a life gone wrong might be turned around. The worst criminal in the world is entitled to humane treatment and is entitled to certain protections under the law. It is enshrined in the United States Constitution. The conservatives in this thread that blindly applaud the killing of a gang member under any circumstances need to remember that respect for the laws of our land is the very thing that should distinguish law enforcement officers from the gang members they apprehend. If you don't even CARE whether police obey the law then one wonders what, exactly, you think separates the good guys from the bad guys.
Please, right wingers -- use your heads for once instead of just reacting.
How right you are, Elayne. F u c k the Constitution and all it stands for. Let's forget all those who died to establish it, or to defend it.
Let's just anoint the police as the sole determinant of whom is deserving of life, liberty and freedom.
That worked well in the USSR, didn't it, and also in Nazi Germany.
I too, support the police 100%, while their actions are lawful. But in our society no entity of class of people is viewed as utterly above the law, including the police. Perhaps this news has not reached you.
BTW: The term is "due process", not "do process".
Mark:
He never pulled the gun on officers:
The shooting happened after deputies responded to a report that several men in front of a residence brandishing a gun and creating a disturbance.
The first deputy arrived at the scene two minutes later, learning that the men had left in a vehicle.
Moments later, the news release stated, the person who reported the disturbance pointed to a passing vehicle and said the people inside were involved in the incident.
The deputy attempted to stop the vehicle, at which time a man ran from the car. The deputy caught up to him, held the man on the ground and put handcuffs on him, the release said.
A second deputy arrived during the arrest and “observed the subject roll onto his side,” the release stated. The first deputy backed away and “announced that the subject had a gun,” the release stated, “at which time an officer-involved shooting occurred.”
Deputies then searched the suspect and found a loaded gun, the release stated. They administered medical aid and summoned paramedics, but Haslip was pronounced dead at the scene.
http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/moreno-valley/moreno-valley-headlines-index/20121229-moreno-valley-deputy-shot-armed-handcuffed-suspect.ece
"Jibaro
So, murder is ok if the victim is in a gang? Or, is it ok because the kid was black?"
Both
I tend to think that none of us has enough information to express an opinion on this story. Which of you is an eye witness? You are all making assumptions based on incomplete information.
We have the option to label a comment as inflammatory. I Chose to label the article inflammatory.
How threatening can he be when he's essentially tied down and can't move? These were crooked cops who decided to have themselves "a little fun." They were so sure that no one would call them on it, they didn't even bother to unshackle him to make it look like he posed a threat. And that's why we have enough information. We know he didn't pose a threat because he was in a position where he couldn't.
Joe S.-761084: There is a WHOLE LOT more to thisstory than what were reading. This is NOT an issue of race,or the fact that he was a gang member, so for those leaning that way need to stop. The media is the one that put that into the story as usual to get an emotional response from readers. Police have killed people in custody before and they have been both men and women. Do a search and see how often it happens every year around the country and look at the backgrounds of these people you will be surprised. Had this young man been from a well to do family, you can believe the media would have been running this story from a different slant.
elayne you would kill a mad dog........
Your starting to sound like that mad dog now. Just keep posting they say allot about you.
"Newswinner101 Comment collapsed by the community
Agreed! Give that officer a medal of freedom. He's a hero!"
Maybe next time it will be you, he is no hero and you're an idiot.
I think its a good chance they also planted that gun on him. Did anyone else see him with it? was it in his hands? Not according to the story. Even if he had a gun it sure sounds like he wasn't able to use it and was already on the ground. Something is either wrong with the News Story or something is fishy here with the Cops story. Even if it is totally correct the Police handled it very unprofessionally.
Amanda,
Good post. I think that makes the situation seem a bit more understandable. I suspect the arriving officer who hears the original officer yell "he has a gun" and probably the one who shot him, may not have even been very clear about the suspect being cuffed behind his back.
The original officer probably tackles him from behind after chasing him and then immediately slaps the cuffs on him. Just at that point other officers pull up all responding to the assistance call. If they aren't clear that the guy is cuffed and the first thing they see is him rolling on his side and his arms probably moving a bit as he rolls and there's a gun in his waistband or maybe laying on the ground right there in front of him, Their first thought is that he's probably going for the gun. It's 8:30 at night so it's dark, maybe dimly lit by flashlights. I can almost imagine the first officer thinking that he may have somehow slipped his cuffs. The problem was the guy trying to roll over. He's on the ground cuffed, he'd better not move unless instructed to do so. We don't know who fires, but it sounds like one of the just arriving officers who very well may never realized the guy was cuffed. It isn't clear just how close they officers were either.
I think we're talking about a split second decision that was most likely the wrong one. It is easy to second guess the situation without being there and not actually observing what happened. I can see some things the cops did wrong, but I can also see a lot the suspect did wrong. He was ID'd as someone involved initially, he has a gun, he runs from the cop, and he doesn't stay still on the ground after being subdued and cuffed.
I think it is reasonable to assume the suspect wasn't an innocent bystander who just stumbled into the wrong place at the wrong time. We really need to know what the cop who shot saw, because what he saw is probably something that doesn't include all the facts. Most likely he saw a criminal who was reaching for his gun. I suspect they will find the shooting justifiable but will also find some things that should have happened differently.
The story here is pretty bad and lets people jump to the conclusion that this was some sort of deliberate assassination of the suspect. You can read a lot of things into a story like this, for example the thing about yelling "get down." This is poorly written.
There are couple ways you can interpret this. Many seem to think the "teen" the deputies are yelling at was the supsect, but here's another way to interpret it which I believe is what was trying to be conveyed.
In this interpretation the cops are not yelling at the suspect on the ground, but are yelling at the witness, Haines, to warn her and help prevent her from getting shot.
When we see stories like this, particularly with the headline they chose, we already think we know what happened before we even start reading it. Then we see examples of absolutely terrible reporting. The person who wrote this story was just blurting out stuff that seems to be related to what happened.
On the other hand, the story that Amanda posted is far more precise and gives us additional information. It still isn't 100% conclusive, but it does seem to narrow the possibilities. Frankly I think we have a lot of people calling themselves reporters who have absolutely no skill at it. Maybe this is a product of the times when everybody wants to read tweets rather than well composed paragraphs precisely conveying information.
A good reporter writes a draft and then reads it like someone who knows nothing about it, often a good reporter will ask someone else to read it and ask questions. The key is the ask questions part. Does the story make things clear, or does it leave a lot of unanswered questions or room for multiple interpretation? Good reporting is an art form and a science. But we have gotten away from that. Maybe in a effort to quickly get stories out and maybe in an effort to make the story short when it shouldn't be, because people don't like to read something long. Case in point, I'll better many just skip over my post because it looks longer than what they want to invest their time reading.
1 New Day:
My first post at 1.41 is the actual police report; the second article is from the Moreno Valley Press Enterprise--the local newspaper which first broke the story.
The article that is here on NBC news is pretty much a cut and paste of the same article that has been cut and pasted everywhere. Yesterday there was an article about AlQuaeda putting a bounty on our Yemeni ambassador--but NBC didn't see a later article that said that when Al-Quaeda originally released this video, they deleted the section of video that contained the bounty request of their own volition. Some bright idiot dug in there, found the content that AlQuaeda deleted, and went to the press and suddenly it was everywhere, that AQ had put a bounty on the ambassador when the truth was that yes, they did originally plan to do it, changed their minds and deleted the content, never intended for it to get out. That's the problem with cut-and-paste journalism.
Now, as to this situation--it was poor decision-making on both sides, the kid paid for it with his life and the cops overreacted. They should take this as a lesson and make sure it doesn't happen again. As for the guy, yes, I'm sorry he got shot, it shouldn't have happened, but he did have an illegal firearm and was in a gang, and hopefully when he comes back to this earth he'll make some better choices in life. My condolences to his family and especially to his kids, who will now grow up without a father--just like he did.
He didn't pull the weapon he already had, he couldn't use the weapon because was already handcuffed behind his back, the gun just happen to be in his pants. Although he was a scumbag, it seems like he was murdered by the police.
Amanda and 1NewDay - I have long been aggravated at the level that the media has come to. Anything for a great headline with as little effort as possible seems to be the new status quo.
Amanda - Although I do agree with much of what you have said, you are still coming to a conclusion as well that both overreacted, albeit in a calmer and more thoughtful manner. We still don't have all the facts. He may very well have been attempting to utilize the weapon. We'll see.
Half Cherokee, huh? Yea, right! You must not know the history of your people if you condone cops shooting people who are handcuffed from behind. Nice way to start off the new year, this actually happened a couple of times with cops last year, and of course, swept under the rug. The worst was the black teenager handcuffed from behind who committed suicide by gunshot to his right temple in the back of a police car.
I have to agree with you, even as it relates to my posted opinions (see above), which as I reread them, do draw a conclusion which cannot be substantiated from an nbcnews.com article, at least not as this one is written.
However, I still say this shooting appears highly suspect. Unless the dead youth was crazy, on some serious drugs, or as stupid as a plant, why would he initiate a gun battle with 2 or more armed police men, with his hands on cuffed behind him and his body prone upon the ground?
Maybe evidence will show that he was suffering from 1 or all 3 of the above conditions. But that seems the least likely scenario to prove true.
Good guy with a gun taking out a bad guy with a gun plain and simple! I don't care whether your white, black, brown, red, purple, etc, etc, if you are a gang member and have a weapon and do bad things to others then a cop taking your ass out is what you deserve!
Amanda,
Until I here what the cop that shot him saw, I hold on saying he overreacted. If I were to put myself in the situation I described, not knowing the guys hands were cuffed and drawing the conclusion he was reaching for the weapon, I believe I would have shot him too. I don't think that we should expect the cop to wait until the weapon is in hand pointed at him. These kind of things happen in a split second. It is about the perception at the time. I doubt that a cop running up on the scene goes through an analysis that says the guy is scum and deserves to die, so I'll take advantage of that opportunity and put him down.
If any of the cops has some blame here it is probably the first officer who apprehended the guy. He's the guy who is supposed to be in control of the scene. Don't know where he was standing when the suspect rolled, but I think he's still the guy who should be in control of the subject. Knowing he cuffed the guy, he probably should have shoved him flat if he was close enough. He should have made a brief search for weapons before even getting off the guy. Maybe it was all a matter of poor timing, but if the original officer yells he's got a gun and backs away, he's indicating to the other officers that there is a deadly threat. Was there? I don't really think we know. Could have been that as the guy rolled, the gun was on the ground right near his hands. Just too hard to say. The only thing I think was wrong was letting this guy out of absolute confinement such that he was able to roll without having been searched. If the cop was still on him at the time and the guy was able to overcome him and roll himself, then it's a different story and he should have expected to get shot.
We just don't know all these things but I'm sure the investigation will explore all of them. I've seen some of the police training videos that simulate very similar situations. Sometimes the situations appear virtually identical and the guy has a gun, but in another version that looks the same he doesn't. They try to teach these guys to always be very suspicious and to try to take everything in context. This is not an easy job these guys do and a lot has to do with their own experience and training. I don't believe they deliberately murdered this guy. He was a victim of circumstance and by all accounts the guy was anything but innocent. You have to conclude that the guy's behavior put himself into this situation. Seems unlikely that he intended to shoot the cops because he originally got out of his vehicle and ran while he had a gun in his possession. That is part of the context, the original officer had to consider, but who really knows what was in this guys mind.
To some extent, I think that if one lives their life like a criminal, they should expect to die like a criminal. Not that it justifies this, but more like an occupational hazard. Sure this incident could possibly have ended differently depending on how the cops reacted, but the dead gang banger with the guns really has the most responsibility for his own death.
As to Things need to change's comments, I have to agree. I think in this day of instant news the urgency to get a story out and make it eye catching, really does an injustice to reporting the news.
A bad choice of decisions by an 18 yr' old
compounded by a choice of bad decisions by a trained enforcement officer
equals a bad result.... who is surprized by this equation ?
One thing tho....
when you pull that trigger while aimed at another human
you WILL live with the results every day AND night of the rest of your life
just as surely as the persons affected by your decision .
Something that is seldom realized is that YOU live with the people you kill forever...
`pull that trigger & the object you cannot stand becomes part of you, like stink .
elayne, typical RWNJ fake "christian" talibani, bloodthirsty nutcase.
If they did this to all gang bangers, there will be a lot less crime now and in the future.
Hey, news media never lie to stir up a race war, oh yeah, Zimmerman. It may be police brutality, or legit self defense. Either way, this is probably on the bottom of news sources for getting accurate news. ABC is probably the only "source" lower.
You would favor it the other way around? There is no paradox when you consider one's wish to protect the innocent versus destroying the wicked. Would you be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty then? Typical Left winger?
FOX "we're not going to be beholden to fact checkers as long as we tell our audience what they want to hear" is lower
All the people that are crying over this waste of flesh are the same people that would find in favor of the criminal that broke into someone's house and got injured and then sued the home owner. If you break the law you pay the price. I am not going to waste any tears over this individual that, by his own volition, decided to become a gang member. I'll bet dollars to donuts that he had been involved in drive-by shootings and numerous other crimes.
one of the truly most idiotic comments made yet.
there is no excuse to shoot a handcuffed suspect on the ground
Kid didn't have a chance and all the other kids like him don't either.
Calling a gang banger a kid really doesn't soften the issue..
Hardly a kid---a gun, a gang member---he's no kid....
liz355
there you go, give them an excuse.... my father beat the snot out of me next to daily. my mother watched and smiled most of the times, and when it got to the point he might actually kill me, she would pull him off. i never was in prison or found guilty of a violent crime. i brought myself up, because the morals taught to me by my parents were way off base. I MADE MY LIFE, just as he, and those like us made theirs.
his chance? if he never had one, its his own fault. he chose to be a gang-banger, possess a firearm, to use it. he brandished the gun, and you know the rest. if you think one can not shoot someone while cuffed, guess again.
18 years old a Kid? you all need to figure out this. If your old enough to vote and be in combat you you aren't a kid. Still this should not have happened to anyone of any age.
liz, everyone has a chance. It is how or if you want to use it. Apparently he did but choose not to.
Liz is your typical bleeding heart moonbat whose always looking to exscuse the abhorrent behavior of violent criminals. At the same time, people like her believe law abiding gun owners aught to be striped of their right to defend themselves. There is no reasoning with such a backwards mentality.
When you get old enough, practically everybody ten years younger than you becomes 'kid'.
From what I understand of the police report, no, the kid was never given the chance. He was handcuffed the cops were searching him, discovered a loaded gun, and fired, killing him, before they even attempted to remove the firearm from Haslip. I'm somewhat inclined to think they overreacted, though we're really going to have to wait to see what the official investigation turns up:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
http://www.riversidesheriff.org/press/mvs12-1228-1.asp
this is the third incident in as many months of the cops shooting someone with their hands cuffed behind their back , the other two the cops claimed were suicides, but the victims hands were still behind their backs. We seem to be hiring sadists as police officers, they are no longer here to protect and serve, they are only here to dominante and abuse.
Judge Dredd, cop, judge and executioner in one.
Based off of what I have heard stated by not only the police, but by people who knew him personally, he was a P.O.S. His decisions led him to his death. It was his fault, not another's. The sooner people start putting the blame where it needs to be, the sooner we stop the mass theater shootings, school shootings, matricide, patricide, and so forth. Quit laying the blame on others. The guy was a waste of space based on the facts. The world did not lose a scholar, or a humanitarian, or even a random caring human being...it lost a gang member, a violent criminal, a bane to society. Someone who would probably not think twice to pump a few rounds into you or your loved ones for money or drugs. And as the witness so ineloquently put it, "I never seen anyone get popped like that." But I'm sure that seeing people get "popped" without handcuffs, or any rhyme or reason, is just normal.
A gangbanger is dead. No skin off my nose. In fact this is exactly what is needed to cure this scourge. Round them up and kill them all.
I understand the importance of due process but these bastards have been gaming the due process. Nobody comes forward to give witness against them and they almost always are never convicted which of course emboldens them further and make them even more rabid.
Gangs in this country need to be treated the same way Al Qaida terrorists are being treated. That is the only way to contain them. Go gestapo on their ass.
Amanda-2017567
the punk was given a chance, as well millions of choices to avoid the situation HE put HIMSELF into.
he was brandishing a weapon he had no legal right to posess being he was under 21
he ran before police arrived, yet he returned
he ran from police rather than do what any sane person would do, just get the balls to come forward and admit he did something wrong
he rolled onto his side, rather than lay there, by the sounds, pointing a loaded weapon in the officers direction
so where in the report does it say this "punk kid" didnt have any chance?
the article does not say what officer shot him, the arresting, or the arriving. however, a series of the most unfortunate events not in his favor, caused by his own actions, led to his own demise.
No they don't get the chance because they never make the chance. He was a teen with a gun, he led himself to his death by his lifestyle, and while it's tragic it's also foreseeable and preventable. Education is something to strive for and not condemn, I've seen so many young kids pick on and bully those who actually strive to enlighten and make something of themselves. Libraries are free, there are systems online that will help those in difficult circumstances receive learning and in some instances, jobs. There are so many excuses out there as to why some people chose a gang lifestyle and those excuses are all horse manure. You are what you make yourself, your upbringing may have a hand in it but in the end everything you do in life if your choice to make. It's a horrible way to die, but he chose a horrible way to live.
NHI
if this gangbanger had been able to get off one shot even being handcuffed he could have killed a police officer, now the difference is the police are the ones you call when a gangbanger has a gun and the gangbanger is the one who puts deadly drugs on the street and shoot and kill innocent people who get in the crossfire when two rival gangs meet up. so if one has to die in this situation I would hope it would not be the one I depend on when my life or someone I care about needs them. one shot, that's all it would have taken for this thug to kill someone who is out there to protect us. maybe people like this should not choose to own firearms, and they damn sure should not pull it on armed police officers. handcuffed or not he could have fired the weapon he pulled and an innocent bystander could have been shot and killed. what were the police supposed to do? go for the gun at point blank range so it could go off and kill someone else? the lesson is ,DONT BE A GUN TOTING THUG AND THE POLICE WONT SHOOT YOU! of course this guys family is going to claim he was on the road to redemption ,sounds better in court when the civil suits start flying and they try to profit from his death.
Considering this story first has the gangbanger handcuffed apparently lying on the ground on his stomach. Then the story goes on to say he rolled over exposing a handgun tucked in his waist band. It is then, as the story goes, that the cops screamed for him to get down. But he was already on the ground, wasn't he?
Did the cop that cuffed his not do the most basic frisk?
Was he on the ground of was he not?
This story is so poorly written that the actual events cannot be discerned. Another example of nbc employing incompetent journalists because the competent ones can get better jobs elsewhere.
In the final analysis, one less gangbanger.
he was a gang member so what happened to him was his own fault,but the liberal democrats think its okay for scumbag gang mmemders should have rights. in my book they aren't any different than a terrist. the only thing to do is get rid of them before they kill a law bidding person. gangs are nothing but low life drug usind/dealers and shouldn't have any rights in the world. if they checked farther into his back ground they would find a criminal record before they published this artical. since he was back they will play the race card like all democrats do.
NaughtyMossy:
According to all reports, he never 'pointed a loaded weapon in the officer's direction'. He was handcuffed face down on the ground and the gun was discovered when the cop rolled him over to search. The cop apparently never gave him a chance to turn over the weapon, did not attempt to confiscate the weapon peacefully, shot the suspect first then removed the weapon.
When I did a google search to turn up the police report I quoted above, it turned up another guy with the last name Haslip, 41, who is in prison for shooting a guy in CA some years ago. If this guy is the father of this CA teen that was shot, then this CA teen may never have had anyone to show him any different way. If violence and bloodshed was all he'd ever seen from his parents, is it any wonder that he is the way he is, and if he'd had better parents, better role models, perhaps he have turned out differently.
i have a cop friend. he says he always errors on the side of caution. he aint going to make his wife a widow
"Goodness79 Based off of what I have heard stated by not only the police, but by people who knew him personally, he was a P.O.S. His decisions led him to his death. It was his fault, not another's."
Wrong, if he had pulled the gun and aimed at the officers I would agree but once you are in cuffs with your face in the dirt and your hand behind your back you shouldn't be shot just because they suddenly find a weapon. Murder is murder even if a cop did it and you think the dead person is a POS.
Stop making excuses for bad cops. Bad cops are just gang members with badges.
@Greatwhite - #2.10
WHO IS "their" and "they"?
Carrying a gun.....even if you are licensed to do so is potential suicide.............cops are really nervous in this day and age of citizens packing. Cops will not take any chances. When your shot/dead all the "I'm sorries" just don't matter.
But if everyone were required to get a background check and concealed weapons permit this would have never happened?? This is what the current administration and lawmakers think will solve the violence. Wrong!
ixlr8
The nra wants everyone to carry a gun with no background checks. Which is better?
flnobody - You are incorrect. The NRA has NEVER advocated allowing just anyone to carry a weapon. If you're going to post comments, please do your homework first.
I'm licensed to carry and anybody that is,knows that it is your responsibilty to inform a detaining police officer immediately that you are licensed to carry and are carrying.
I'm licensed to carry and anybody that is,knows that it is your responsibilty to inform a detaining police officer immediately that you are licensed to carry and are carrying.
That is the point the Liberals don't want anyone to get.
Oh boy, right-wingers, libs and of course the racist in this group. Who cares about a license, did this piece of crap have a license to carry a gun? If given the chance, this piece of crap would have shot a cop and would he just wound him, don't think so.
Stop whinning about this, he got what he asked for and the police [hats off to them] saved the taxpayers alot of money. Didn't help a defense attorney none.
Wrong Jacksup. It depends on the particular state. There are "mandatory disclosure" states, and "non mandatory disclosure" states. I live in a "non mandatory disclosure state, and I will NEVER inform a police officer that I am armed, unless he asks me directly. I have a friend who is a CCW permit holder who was stopped for a routine traffic violation. He handed his concealed carry permit to the cop along with his driver's license. The cop asked him if he was carrying at the moment, and when he replied in the affirmative, the cop drew his gun, ordered him out of the car, and handcuffed him. He took my friends gun, unloaded it and placed it on the hood of the car. My friend had the stand there in handcuffs, the unloaded gun on the hood, in full view of motorists passing by during rush hour traffic while the cop wrote the ticket. He was released after he signed the ticket. The episode was scary and embarrassing. That is why I will never voluntarily disclose.
ELayne,
i was with ya all the way until;
The scumbag lawyers are all making a pitch to take the case as we speak and given the location the insurance company's ( AKA the taxpayers ) for the cops city county and state WILL PAY.
Michael,
And therefor increase your odds about 100% of being shot by a trigger happy cop. You may wish to re-think that.
or maybe the cops should think before they shoot people. they also have tasers.
BUT the guy was in handcuffs. Don't that make a difference? What in this story i'm not hearing that everyone else is hearing. In my mind these cops should be locked up. OK the guy is in a gang, every gun onwer in america is in some form of a gang, (NRA,Hunting club, etc....etc)
It wasn't justice. It was assasination.
@pburgrunner no not every gun owner in America is in a gang, I have guns and I also have a permit to carry a concealed weapon. I do not belong to the nra or any hunting clubs, I don't hunt. so you are wrong. and @Michael, that sounds like a load of bull to me, I have been stopped at a checkpoint set up to check people for insurance and when stopped I immediately told the officer I had a loaded gun (after handing him my drivers license and my ccw permit) and he checked my insurance and license and I was on my way! I don't know where you live but in my home state the cop would have been in big trouble for what you say he did. if the guy in your "story" had a permit to carry, why would the officer be allowed to harass and handcuff a legal citizen for exorcizing his constitutional rights?
@Steve, your turn soon, I hope...
Let's fact it, people, once the cop saw the gun, handcuffed or not, the kid was a goner! Another cop panics again and I have no doubt the joker completely forgot the kid WAS handcuffed, he just saw the gun and tunnel vision set in.. It's happened before and will surely happen again.. However, that being said the cop committed murder, there's no two ways about that.. He needs to be placed in custody and go to trial.. I mean, at least HE'S going to have one, right? Can't say that about Haslip.. No matter what the kid did, he deserved his day in court, not a hole in the ground!
Hi, Scooter. Shall we dance....
The death of handcuffed youth in police custody has become a disturbing trend.
Okay, he had a gun. But, folks, this guy was handcuffed and the officer was not alone and afraid for his life. Just don't know what else there is to say on the subject. At the lest, he needs to be home on house arrest until his hearing.
Typical MSN - give you just enough info to get everyone angry and divided.
Here are the facts we need and none of them can be trusted to come from either the police or people close to the young man:
1. Was the alleged criminal resisting arrest
2. Where is the entry wound of the bullet
3. After having the handcuffs placed on the suspect, did the officer perform a pat down? Was the weapon in the victim's possession actually his weapon and why was it not found through the course of putting handcuffs on him or shortly after?
4. The eyewitness I have seen says he was compliant and laying on his front side when the officer shot him from behind. That is murder. I'm not claiming to accept this version, but it should be taken into consideration.
5. Was the gun that the victim had in his possession - if he had one - legally registered? To whom?
So many things could have happened in these circumstances, it is ridiculous. The victim could have, even with handcuffs on, pointed a weapon at the officer or the officer could have made up the gun to justify an execution (ask any honest officer and they'll tell you that they have a 'drop' gun just for this case).
Just a few things to remember - we are all innocent until PROVEN guilty. Police cannot prove or disprove anything. Only a presiding judge and / or a jury can prove a thing. Even a lawyer can't prove a thing. They can only argue it. At least, that's what the laws of this country are based on and we should hope to work back to. Whether or not an 18 year old kid is part of a gang or not is irrelevant.
The only excuse I can find for the officer is if a kid said a particular 'thing' to him. I'm an ardent believer in the law and hope someday our police begin believing in it as well, but there are a few things that gang members like to say to police (usually having to do with the safety of their families), where a bullet in the back of the head, while still being wrong, is a little more understandable.
That joker neither had the right to have a gun nor did he need one. The little stupid "gangsta" got what he deserved before he does it to someone else.
Not having the right to something nor the need for it is deserving of death.
The same could be said of the illegals crossing the border. They don't have the right to do so. They don't have the "need" to do so. They could stay in their own country and deal with things there. Their existence may not be what they want but it won't kill them.
So following your logic, they deserve to be shot when they try to cross the border.
What, the police don't search people they handcuff?
Not enough information. Was he shot after the responding officer SAW that he had a gun? Was the gun in his hands, handcuffed behind the back? Was he, in that subdued position, still trying to shoot the officers?
Concealed carry permits have nothing to do with this story, so why bring it up. Even a regular law abiding citizen can't get a concealed carry permit in Commiefornia anyway.
So how was he handcuffed with a gun on him?
Police search you and then handcuff or at least search you right after. Once you are handcuffed, you're already arrested.
Unless the guy was pointed out, and the officer got the 'drop' on him, and handcuffed him to maintain control until backup arrived.
One thing people need to do, though, is separate the sudden shock and horror of seeing someone killed from the justification or lack of justification for the shooting.
From the lack of detail in this story, It's obvious, they had to shoot him because he was trying to roll away.
@Levi777
You should rewrite your last sentence because it is unclear and can be interpreted in several ways.
"separate the sudden shock and horror of seeing someone killed from the justification or lack of justification for the shooting."??
There might be "shock and horror" when someone innocent gets killed. There can never be "lack of justification" when a cop kills a human being, regardless of how hateful the person might be. There is no "unjustified" shooting by police.
Whoever this "gangsta" was, killing a person with hands tide behind the back is called execution. But again, we're not clear yet on what exactly happened here and we need more information.
If in fact the guy was killed while handcuffed and without any other event we don't know about, this particular cop is in deep sh@t.
@ lilirocks - I think was pretty clear that Levi meant that the whether or not people were horrified at the shooting is immaterial to whether the shooting was justified or not.
Cops often get away with murder, theft, rape, you name it. They get special treatment because any jail sentence amounts to a death sentence. Well, let's see, they knew that when they took the job. In my opinion they should be held to a higher bar rather than a lower.
Federal law states that you must be 21 to legally own a handgun.
So this kid begin shot and killed by nervous police is NO surprise! Hell, I'd even shoot him even if he was in handcuffs and attempting to brandish a handgun!
occasionally a cop screws up a body search when he handcuffs a guy.... so these guys are gonna get some heat for that...
but shooting a guy who is handcuffed and on the ground but has a gun in one of his handcuffed hands?
I would shoot the guy 10 times out of 10... being handcuffed doesn't keep the guy from pulling the trigger... you aren't going to be any less dead from the bullet that hits you because he's got handcuffs on.....
and this kid is an admitted gang member? in light of what these kids do.. I'm OK with ALL of those animals getting killed....
oh, and BTW, those kids and parents CHOOSE to be there and do that.... and if their Mom's are so upset about it... maybe they should have moved to different neighborhoods and taught their kids better...
good riddance...
In my experience, that just isn't true. Any contact with law enforcement officers is essentially determined by the actions of the citizen the officer has stopped or is interviewing. Police officers learn very quickly to size someone up based on how they look and how they act. Most of the time, they're absolutely right. Think of the old saying about, "If it walks like a duck...". The problem is, every now and then, something looks a lot worse than it really is. In short, if you don't want to be treated like a bad guy, try very hard NOT to look and act like a bad guy! That would also include going where bad guys like to go at times when bad guys like to be there. If you've got no business being in a dark alley in the middle of the night, you'd best not be there.
When it comes to carrying a gun, if you're licensed to do so, the first thing you need to do is not look like a felon. Keeping clean, shaved, and dressing reasonably well make a huge difference. Driving a vehicle that is somewhat respectable is also important. Pay some extra attention to your lights and equipment for one, but for two, lose the vehicular 'attitude'. Bumper stickers or anything lewd or obnoxious is going to be unbecoming of you, and a lot of folks who have their ride all decked out with that stuff have some very interesting court records. You don't want to look like you do, because it isn't going to help you if you get pulled over. Keeping your vehicle reasonably clean is good, if you can do it where you live. Lots of dust is okay in the country! If you treat the officer exactly as you'd like to be treated it really helps. I strongly recommend not seriously violating the law because nothing you say is likely to be appropriate, but that goes without saying. Assuming you were slightly over the speed limit, have a light out, or really have no idea why you're being pulled over, just tell yourself that the officer will let you know why and you're curious to find out. Roll down the window, get your license handy if you have time to do it discreetly, then set your wrists on the rubber weatherstrip or the very top edge or your rolled down window, palms up, with your license resting on them if it won't blow away, and give the officer an enthusiastic greeting - Good ______— (morning, afternoon, evening), Sir/Ma'am/Officer/Deputy/Trooper! - usually works well enough. Just be sure to think about it for a moment and formulate the appropriate greeting. Figure out who just pulled you over and go from there. If you look or act nervous, it will definitely rub off on the officer, who may also start wondering what you're trying to hide. Try to act a bit like you know them and/or are glad to see them.
Now, if they ask you if you're armed, just be honest. If you're not, just say 'Not today, Sir/Ma'am'. If you are, you say, "Yes, thank you. How do you wish to proceed?". They'll tell you. If they don't ask, it's usually not going to be an issue, as long as they don't see or are likely to see your firearm. Honestly, it shouldn't be visible to anyone outside your vehicle, anyway! But, if for some reason, the officer asks you to step out of the vehicle or if he can search your vehicle (very unlikely, but it could happen), that is the time you want to inform him or her, " I am licensed to carry a weapon and I am currently armed. How do you want to proceed?". They'll tell you, and you do as they say. Surprisingly, much of the time it won't be a big deal. If YOU act like a professional, they'll almost always act like professionals, too. If you act like a jerk or a reprobate of some kind, you might just discover that being reciprocated.
Lastly, anyone who is legally carrying a firearm should carry it in a professional manner. This means in a properly fitted holster, in a reasonable manner. Most officers who've discovered hidden guns on bad guys will tell you they've never seen one in a holster. Bad guys want to be able to ditch guns quickly and not get caught with them, so why spend the bucks on the right holster for them? It very seldom happens. If the gun isn't to be holstered on your person, secure it in something...a lockable briefcase, a hardshell gun case, or something. I'd avoid the zipper 'pouch' types of cases myself, but most of all, do not stash or shove a gun anywhere. Not in your waistband or in a pocket, not in the seat cushions, not in the console or glove compartment, not under the seat. An officer of the law is virtually certain to read something not good into that.
What happens in interactions with law enforcement is almost entirely up to you. If you haven't gotten any training in how to interact with law enforcement officers while you're carrying a gun, you haven't received enough training yet and need to keep studying.
I have zero sympathy for this little gang-banger, and I'm sure he would have done plenty of damage given the chance. The point is, he wasn't in any position to do any damage in this situation. Handcuffed, behind his back, exactly what would he use to shoot the cops with, his toes? These cops were extraordinarily out of line, and take down the reputation of good cops everywhere. They need to be brought up on charges. I don't care if it's Hitler, shooting a detained, restrained individual is never right.
travis, you get it perfectly. the best gang-banger is a reformed/ex gang-banger, adn the second best is one that is dead from his own stupidity. (IMHO)
but shooting a person who is cuffed and on the ground is inexcusable, regardless of whether they are a gang-banger or a serial murderer, the police aren't supposed to be executioners.
the TiGor's post sounds like advice you'd give to people in a police state - which is exactly what this country has become, a police state with a dictator in charge who issues "executive orders" instead of proposing legislation. And these gangbangers are still in business because someone's making money...
I think TiGor's post simply says,Dont be a smart as# and treat the officer with some respect. which is how we should treat everybody, thats how I was raised anyway.
as far as I'm concerned the gangs should get what the mayor of Philly gave them back in the 70's or 80's. blow up the whole dam block with the gang in it.they are nothing but trouble. It may sound uncaring and mean but it sure settled the black panthers down...The cops have had it with these gangs and so should everyone else...
First of all - lets establish the ground rules.... It was not Racial !!! People need to get that straight.
But for some reason - just from reading the headline - I knew it was a Black Kid, they all have Super Human Strength, so handcuffed or not, laying face-down on the ground or not; you can't draw any conclusions from the Liberal media headlines. Wait for the evidence before your make up your minds.
Of course there is the question; since he was handcuffed, that means at least ONE of the officers probably had searched him... right? Maybe the officer was mistaken and was going for his Tazer and mistakenly used his gun instead? No, that can't be right, The officers shot him - more than one responded to the call.
Another officer, in Oakland used that defence - since it worked, its probably on the list if "Approved-court tested- justifible reasons to shoot a handcuffed black Suspect (It was not Racial !!! People need to get that straight).., laying face down on the ground, surrounded by several other officers at the scene of the arrest.
We need to get parity for our Police - we need to have officers trained on how to prevent the use of Magic, while Suspects are in custody.
OK, well maybe he was a magician - used his powers to summon up the gun from the nether regions.
Oh well, its not a big loss, he was a gang-member and was going to get popped for something - sooner or later anyway.
Secondly ... Wait for the riots, there is always a riot when police are forced to do their Job and arrest/kill/shoot these animals... right? If his family would have kept him out of gangs, the police would never have stopped him in the first place ... that would have prevented the whole problem. Officers have it hard enough, a killing of a known gang Banger every once in a while is not too high a price to pay to keep the streets safe for the rest of us. Its a case of suicide-by-Police. He was asking for it.
@post 3.38 (ET AL)
WOW!!!!!!!!! JUST @!$%#ING WOW!!!!!
Rain,
If it helps, I'm pretty sure he was going for sarcasm.
Haines said that’s when deputies started screaming for the teen to “get down.”
So I'm guessing he was not on the ground? Was he trying to reach around for the gun? Something is missing here. All we heard is what these family members story is. It all sounds shady to me. Why do teens need to carry guns? To kill people for no reason. This is why this boy had this gun. If he was in a gang then he had it to randomly kill other gang members at will and maybe your kids playing in the yard! Stop defending his actions! He probably should not have been killed, we will find out after we hear all the evicence, but stop defending actions like this!!! You are only encouraging other young men to carry guns and think its justified or justified to kill cops!!! This kid is at least half responsible for what happened if nothing else. Also, some ignorant person said all people that have guns are in some sort of gang???? LOL thats the funniest thing I have ever heard! I know many many people that have guns and are in NO type of gang in of any form! We are not NRA. We go to a public shooting range or private property owned by family to hunt and shoot, no where else! I feel sorry for everyone involved that anyone should ever be put into this position, the boy, his girlfriend, family members and the police! Police do not WANT to shoot anyone but some people are a little more ready to pull the trigger and if you are doing bad things and wearing a gun you run the risk of having this happen! I imagine if he was able to see that he would die someday FOR REAL for doing the things he was doing he would change it but its so sad that so many have to learn the hard way! Too sad!
So he was handcuffed, and somehow he still had his gun? Aren't they supposed to pat search you after they handcuff you? It is possible that the police over reacted, at the same time I am sick and tired of every time deadly force is used the first thing the public tries to do is video record it so they can get the media attention. Long story short, a known gang member is killed by police and the police are automatically assumed evil. A local gang member kills a cop and nobody in the community really gives a F*&^.
I am glad he is dead.Why was he with a gang, and why did he have a gun hidden.We need to quit standing up for these people.I love the response,call the news.Here is a news flash,I do not care.
"I am glad he is dead". Says far more about you than this article says about this young man.
Long story short....you assume he was fully searched after being handcuffed.
This isn't the first time someone handcuffed behind their backs has an opportunity to shoot someone or even commit suicide and shoot themselves in the head with a gun that wasn't found right away.
You cannot "call the news" they do not care unless it is a white person who is attacked or arrested. It is better to find out what cop (name) did the shooting and give his name to the remaining gang members they will take care of it. He has a family right? When will African Americans learn they at war with some whites. Silly gang banger, justice is for those who actively seek it. The American justice system does not care about what is right it cares about money. If a kid with a gun in his waistband and his hands cuffed behind him can not be sudued with out using deadly force something is wrong with the cops training
Mark Please show some proof that a person could shoot themselves in the head with they hands cuffed behind their back. I been cuffed before it not that easy to do anything.
Congratulations mr rightnow.
your post number 4.4 has been awarded the most ignorant post of the year. but dont be too proud this is only day one.
Handcuffed & shot how fair is that. With all the technology out there they couldn't have stunned him. Even if the guy was in a gang, there's proper procedure for everything. They didn't even give him the common courtesy of being locked up with all the penitentiaries being built they just shot him & took his life way. Oh, ok I guess if he's black & a gang banger lets shoot him & give him no future chance of turning his life around. If he had been of another ethnicity I'd bet that wouldn't have happened. How are you a danger when your hands are cuffed. This just doesn't add up to me. Seems like some officer over reacted & might have some issues. Shooting a handcuffed man when you could of disarmed him after he was hand cuffed doesn't seem like proper police procedure. Maybe the real gang banger had a badge. This officer should be investigated & prosecuted.
That's funny IA.ScooterTramp Ow that really hurts
rightnow, you sound like a racist
We don't know all the facts yet. There wasn't this much of a story in the news and online when a gang member in New York gunned down a police officer who pulled him over for a traffic violation. The police officers today never get a fair shake in the media. The media always talks to the victims friends and famly and prints what ever the say true or not. Gang members kill more people in this country with guns then all the mass shooters do yet they are made out to be the victims. If you are carrying a gun illegally and pull it or show it in the act of any crime you should automaticly get 5 year in jail.
When someone kills members of your family, removes vestiges of your culture and systematically oppresses members of your race and if that person is a member of another race that you are at war with... that person is most likely a racist. When a person or group responds to that systemic oppressions with animosity, it is not race based it is behaviour based. It is self preservation but for your information in my case it probably is racism I believe that the aggressive nature of today's African American may be the result of white slave master genetics being infused with some other genetics. I believe that this is the genetics responsible for the same sense of entitlement that allowed whites to stand idly by while their husbands fathers and sons raped the prisoners of war from antiquity to the present. So you're probably right I most likely have some racist tendencies. But at least I can be honest about it. So as I said before targeting the police officer for retribution would most likely be the most effective way to stop other police from trampling on the rights of suspects. Kind of like the death penalty deters people from crime.
I'm with you on the overreaction bit:
The shooting happened after deputies responded to a report that several men in front of a residence brandishing a gun and creating a disturbance.
The first deputy arrived at the scene two minutes later, learning that the men had left in a vehicle.
Moments later, the news release stated, the person who reported the disturbance pointed to a passing vehicle and said the people inside were involved in the incident.
The deputy attempted to stop the vehicle, at which time a man ran from the car. The deputy caught up to him, held the man on the ground and put handcuffs on him, the release said.
A second deputy arrived during the arrest and “observed the subject roll onto his side,” the release stated. The first deputy backed away and “announced that the subject had a gun,” the release stated, “at which time an officer-involved shooting occurred.”
Deputies then searched the suspect and found a loaded gun, the release stated. They administered medical aid and summoned paramedics, but Haslip was pronounced dead at the scene.
http://www.pe.com/local-news/riverside-county/moreno-valley/moreno-valley-headlines-index/20121229-moreno-valley-deputy-shot-armed-handcuffed-suspect.ece
Domewars wrote: "So he was handcuffed, and somehow he still had his gun? Aren't they supposed to pat search you after they handcuff you?"
Handcuffs are a temporary restraint which still allow the person to move and retreive a weapon. If the weapon was in his waistband, he could access it posing a dangerous threat to the officers. As to the second question: Yes, they are. Sometimes people are handcuffed and not immediately searched due to situation. There are not enough facts in this story to make a judgment on whether the officers neglected to search. It only takes a matter of seconds for a violent offender to reach for a weapon and to kill an officer. And yes, handcuffed people can still pose this threat.
The officers were in the process of searching when they discovered the weapon. Apparently they shot Haslip before even attempting to relieve him of it--see this from the police report:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
http://www.riversidesheriff.org/press/mvs12-1228-1.asp
If he rolled over and they saw a gun why did they have to search him to find the gun?.
He was not brandishing a weapon at the officers. The officers did not know he had one until they had him on the ground, hands cuffed behind his back, and as they rolled him over likely they spotted the gun in the waistband of his pants. At that point the initial deputy stepped back and said 'he has a gun' or something similar, and that was when the shooting happened. It does not appear, from the police report, that any attempt was made to remove the firearm from the handcuffed suspect prior to shooting him.
Mr. Rightnow
Whats your excuse for the slaughter going on every day in Africa? Is that whiteys fault too?
I think I have seen a few TV shows where somebody in handcuffs manages to get a gun in his/her hands and shoot somebody. Usually to then fumble throught he shot person's pockets for the handcuff keys and then to make good their escape.....
Hey, it works for hollywood....
yep, take the diamonds and oil out of Africa and there would no mass killing... Whether its done directly by or in proxy for its all about the Benjamen's and who has the gold. He who has the gold rules.... that's the golden rule. Who has the gold even in africa? wait for.it.... wait for it.......... whitey has the gold
''yep, take the diamonds and oil out of Africa and there would no mass killing''
Thats to funny, let see quickly off hand I can think of a country with diamonds and oil, Canada, yet the people there seem to be able to mine the resources there without mass killing.
Mr. Rightnow,
whitey isn't responsible for all your problems. Let's not forget who sold black people into slavery when the whiteys showed up.....was it?.... could it have been?..... yes! it was OTHER BLACK PEOPLE.
Slavery was abolished and over time discrimination and racism is being reduced - it's not gone, but changing people's attitudes takes time. But this young man wasn't helping himself by joining a gang and engaging in criminal activity. If you want to get rid of racism and discrimination, stop acting out the stereotypes, get some education, and do something positive for society, or at least for yourself.
I think what the police did was wrong and it could have easily been an innocent young man with something other than a gun tucked into his pants which is why we cannot tolerate this from the police. But the young man did put himself in that position.
Mr. rightnow
Blacks were slaughtering each other long before the white man ever set foot in Africa. If they had the ability to invent weapons other than rocks and sharpened sticks they would have exterminated themselves long ago. The only difference between a Chicago black and an African black is the Atlantic Ocean.
jloki banned for racist remarks and death wishing. Nope.
@Steve
And YOUR PEOPLE were slaughtering anyone who did not look like you, including the ORIGINAL AMERICANS. Europeans may not brandish weapons to destroy or kill those that they consider their "enemies" they prefer to employ clandestine ways to destroy them, such as disenfranchisement, ploys to destroy any possibility of socio-economic avenues for success, etc. Destruction of humanity is destruction of humanity regardless of the method you employ to accomplish it. I might remind you, however, that your kind was not so malevolent in your destruction of black people or other people of color not so long ago. Hanging human beings by their genitals, burning people alive after mutilating them were some of the methods YOUR people used right here in THIS COUNTRY. My point is, don't be so sanctimonious in your position about who behaves animalistically........all you have to do is look through your family history and I'm sure you will find that YOU TOO have a few "ghosts" in your lineage with some of them (and from your comment, I would guess that would include you) still employing the clandestine methods I've spoken of to this day.
If I were you - I wouldn't go down that trail? On balance the moral superiority of Europeans, Whites are not quite as unparalleled as you would think.
... And WWI, WWII, The Crusades I - III, Spanish Inquisition, the Middle ages, etc. Even if you just limited it to death counts based on stupidity - you would have to wonder where Europeans got the idea to put a 1/2 million people in a swap, with no sanitary facilities as they did with London - then were surprised when The Black Death" swept through Europe.
Where those "Tea Parties". Lets not trade war stories about what Blacks, did or didn't do before they were Colonized. The point is, The Asians, Mongols and Muslims kicked your asses and still are doing it again. So your governments desided to take over Africa for its resources? How is that working out for you.
You can't even take over Etheopia or lil' Somalia and stay for more than a few weeks. I am wrong, it could be take it over we killed all the Africans first.
The only thing that saved Italy from embarrassment, a second time, was Hitler pulled his nuts out of the fire,
I wonder if had a license for that gun? Was it bought legally and registered? Did he attend firearm training courses? When not in use, did he store it in a locked safe? Did he have a conceal/carry permit? Let me make a wild guess on this one. "NO" to all questions. Yet, I, who does do all the above, will be penalized for this gang banger's actions. Doesn't seem quite fair.
Nevertheless, I truly do hate to hear that anyone has lost his/her life at such a young age over such foolishness. I can't predict what he could have been if circumstances had been different. I would truly wish and pray that all who were prone to violently act out would give up that occupation and find some constructive route. It's never too soon to start.
It definitely was not legally purchased by HIM. You have to be 21 to purchase a handgun. Carrying a gun in CA is illegal, unless you're law enforcement, or live in a county with less than 200,000 people. Under very rare circumstances are concealed permits issued in CA. So, at the very least, he was breaking three or more laws by merely possessing the gun on his person.
I have/do all those things and as ex-military have training that you did not mention? Why would you handcuff an armed suspect? How was he going to quickly recover the weapon, aim, and shoot before being shot by cops who already had a gun trained on him. Sounds like BS to me. Some cop needs to be prosecuted and fired but since that won't happen ....
jloki, stupid much?
how does "handcuffed and was rolled over" constitute "pulling a gun"?
I can tell you this.... We are getting to where we are all digressing. When we seem to be jumping ahead in our fight for racial tollerence on both sides the MEDIA trys to make sure we keep a wedge. You know they like to spin things to make sure they keep the sh1t stirred up so that they know they have people to read their troublemaking news!!! Its getting realllllly sickening how so many are falling right into the plot! They leave things out, build up, stretch and over play anything that will divide! Luckily I know that the few thousand people that reply on here and make crazy comments are not the majority! I just hope we all survive their plot to keep us split! Why don't they highlight all the good our people do together? Because it does NOT promote the crazed emotions that keep people reading their news!!! This incident is HORRIBLE but we don't know the whole story, we need to reserve our judgement until we have heard it all. I was watching stories about how the abolitionists started and how it spread to end slavery. I hope people realize that many many many white people never wanted slavery in the first place, they never owned slaves and if it were not for many putting their lives on the line, losing their families, homes and way of life to help stop slavery. I'm sure there were many more people that did much to stop it. If it were not for all these brave people banning together who knows how or when it would have stopped! There are wayyyyy more people now than there were then that are not racist! Just trying to make sure people don't start feeling bad toward eachother because of a few idiots!!!!!!
I got to "was a gang member" and didn't care to read any more.
Who cares? His mudder? Probably not.
so because he "was a gang member" he deserves no 2nd chance? he could be trying to get out or already be out of the gang. you don't even know. and whatever happened to the forgiving god that gives 2nd chances to murderers and child rapists? but if you're a black gang-member you're just trash?
Everyone is responsible for their own actions. If you chose to be a gang member nothing good will happen with that, period. Gang members are responsible for rampant crime, murder, drugs in our country. I don't give a pass to no one committing crimes. If the cop shot him in cold blood then he to could be held responsible. Don't bring a God into this because it's what it is, period. Everyone has a choice.
If he was trying to get out or was out, why did he have a gun? Why was he fleeing from police? Why was he involved in an incident that required the police to be called? You bleeding hearts are the problem with this country. YOU live in a country where noone is safe. One less gang banger. I say hire more cops like this and maybe we can go back to living in a civilized society where guns were a hobby, not a neccessity for survival.
I think the issue is not that he was a gang member, it's the behaviour and actions of the police. The problem is that it could have easily been a scared and innocent young man with something other than a gun tucked into his pants.
I don't really feel sorry for this young man or his family. He chose this life and while unfortunate that he never got a second chance, he was old enough to know right from wrong.
Jess
Want to bet that the cops have dealt with this POS so many times that they knew him by name?
This was a Lynching
cops are gang members
The kid knew right from wrong. He made a choice and tried to use a weapon against the cops. No one forced him, his choice.
We ask cops to be perfect, enforce our laws and monday morning quarterback them all of the time over life & death decisions they make in seconds......... Then we actually wonder why cops make mistakes.... In this case the only possable mistake was the kid obtained a gun some how and was ignorant enough to try and use it.
People: We live in a dangerious country. Someone has to hold the line and protect the public..... If you dont like whats going on I can understand however if YOU are not doing anything about it then be mindful what you wish for because next time it just might be YOU wishing a cop with a gun was there to save you.
He did NOT attempt to use his weapon against the cops. He never drew it. They didn;t find it until they searched him after handcuffing him and putting him on the ground, per the police report:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
Police responding to a call about gang members brandishing guns. You expect them to roll up take out their note pads? One of the suspects was identified, an dhad a gun. Ride with a police officer for a week and then come back and see what your view is. They have a split second to act or react, or they might not make it home that night. Facts are he was 18 had a gun and was in the car that was identified as the one with gangmembers brandishing guns. His life is now turned around.
I'm with Amanda because this easily could have been an unfortunate, innocent, and scared young man with no weapon tucked into his pants. The police would have killed somebody totally innocent.
I don't think that's acceptable, do you?
On the other hand, I'm not exactly tearing up over his death. It's too bad he didn't get a second chance but he picked this life and sometimes you just don't get second chances. We need to examine police behaviours with the mindset of "what if this was an innocent person in the wrong place at the wrong time?".
officer said he saw a gun on his waist! so why was he executed.
To Jacob and Stephanie, authors of the article -- Please tell me you two didn't pay good money to go to college for journalism???? Do you actually read these articles before you submit them to your editor? Who by the way, stinks at his/her job!!!!
It is just your opiniion that the article was poorly written and edited. Why go there? To show your perceived superior expertise in journalism.
The major news sites all farmed their storywriting out to India years ago. Jacob and Stephanie are more likely Jamaskrit and Shiva with 5th grade English skills.
There's a good chance the thug already killed someone. Good job officer.
You are so off topic! the teen was executed! PRE-JUDGED! this is not the first time tha riverside county sheriffs have had simular accounts: 1. Deputy executes a patron in a Murrietta Bar. 2. Man is hogtied and tazered to death 3. teen shot and killed while cuffed! Seems to me the deputies are in the lead thus far for committing cowardly killings. Show me whereas gang members hogtie and or cuff their victims before executing them! so you tell me whats worse a felon or a bad deputy? Riverside County Sheriffs have taken a major down fall since 2007. Change is needed, and as a concerned County resident along with many other members of the community, we will be monitoring by way of video and audio to stop this type of terrorism they present.
what if...
The police made it safe to be a kid, in a gang infested neighborhood - then he would not need to join a gang in the 1st place. Most kids don't "join" gangs - they get drafted. They are given a choice ... join or move. Not much of a choice, since people don't usually choose to live in a crime infested area.
Cops just write off the area when they are unable to protect the citizens. Then blame the victims for being victimized.
These 18 year old babies are armed and won't hesitate to kill you without losing a minute of sleep I have seen these hoodlums in action .. No sorrow from me and if he wanted to change his life he should of did it already.. What about all the lifes he ruined can't get those back or change those they don't get a second chance the police did us a favor.... Take your pity party somewhere else you play you pay gang life get's you prison or death and they know it they just don't think it will happen to them ..
"... What about all the lifes (sic) he ruined..." Which lives would those be? Lying/fabricating ever so transparently seems to have become an epidemic here in the US. Facts? The truth? Why bother?
Wave your gun at a cop, handcuffed or not - expect to get shot. Easy lesson.
He never drew this weapon on officers. They found it on him while searching him after they handcuffed him. Shot him before even trying to relieve him of it.
Amanda, the report you refer to is a short initial report of the incident and does not contain all the details. You are making an assumption as to the facts of this case. You need to hold judgement of the Officers until an investigation is completed to determine if the Officers were at fault. Just because someone is handcuffed behind their back does not make them are harmless. Plenty of Officers have been killed by handcuffed suspects.
how many citizens have been shot, by cops - by mistake? Plenty of citizens are shot, by cops - when in fact they were fleeing from a crime scene, toward safety ... and got shot, by an officer... Oops?
Fish inna Barrel? or Fish anna Barrel?
Sounds to me like he didn't have a concealed/carry permit....shouldn't of had a gun, known gang member running from da' po'lice.... what does his family expect the police to do. He flashes heat.... they flash theirs. "No one should be shot.... handcuffed with their hands behind their back." Oh really, I bet something tells me that this gangster has killed or witnessed plenty of people being killed. He got killed for being a gang banger, for having an illegal weapon, and not listening to the police. Police that know all too well he would've killed them if he could slip a finger on a trigger. I congratulate the police on this one. "welcome to my hood."
If the police had not been armed, this senseless death could have been avoided.
George - re 'senseless death...cops not being armed;' turn on your sarcasm alert.
The man got a reasonable return on the investment he made with his life. He knew the consequences of his life stile, that,s why he ran in the first place. The outcome was in his control, he made the call not the Police.
If the police were not armed, this wouldn't have happened. What are you, who are you - goofy?
Betting your original hair color is blond
Please reference Dave. This reminds me of an electronics magazine I use to subscribe to. The first year they ran an article about an amazing computer. Had I turned on my sarcasm alert, I would have saved the embarrassment of demanding to know more about this "to good to be true" computer.
Yes, we should disarm the police like the Bobbies used to be in England. Once the police and military are disarmed, then MAYBE we can look at gun control for the general population.
gun control would not have changed a thing in this. all the details are not being disclosed to know what events exactally happened. wait for the facts and quite drawing conclusions. where does color have anything to do with him having a firearm. if he was purple and was shot would the race thing come out then. put yourself in the officers shoes and look at it from that point of view.
Sympathy is between sh*t and syphilis in my dictionary
So is stupid.
A gang member is killed? I don't care.
Sure seemed like a nice enough guy...
There is alot more to this story, and this article gives a huge slant by reporting only what the gang banger's friends saw. I predict that will come out that it was his 'friends' who made the gun available to him since nobody can in their right mind think that he had it when he was handcuffed. Think of all the taxpayer's $ saved by not having to process, prosecute, incarcerate, and parole this thug.
He did have it while handcuffed. The cops found it while they were searching him after they handcuffed him, and shot him before they even tried to relieve him of it. Read the police report:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
Thank you Amanda-2017567
This is a clear case of Murder!! He was handcuffed on the ground and rolled over. The first officer moved out of the way and announced he had a gun. OK he is handcuffed!! Why didn't the first officer removed the weapon no instead he move out the way so the second officer can shot him.
He was still a human being regardless of what he was labeled. He did not banish this weapon at them. THE OFFICERS INVOLVED NEED TO FIRED AND PROSECUTED FOR MURDER.
Eradication of street vermin is a noble cause.
finally some good news in the crime reports. drip dead thug.
@phillipqb RE:If the police had not been armed, this senseless death could have been avoided
If the police weren't armed we would of had two dead police officers ...Criminals don't care about legally carrying firearms it just gives them more courage walking into the harmless sheep pen ..
Minnow, he's being a smart azz. Laugh a little.
he was being sarcastic Minnow
Minnow...That is the point legal gun owners have been trying to get the idiots (liberals) to understand. Criminals DON'T CARE about legally carrying.
no big deal, just another want to
be thug.
live by the sword die by the sword
I think the police should shoot these guys in front of other gang bangers.
They may see the light then
rick skyy Wow you sound like the taliban. Than you call yourselves christians.
I doubt that this kind of garbage would see the light. This is their mentality. They would see another piece of crap get justice, there would be a shoot out in a minute. Hope the police win.
iTS SO SAD YOUR FILLED WITH HATRED! HERE IS A QUOTE!
He did have it while handcuffed. The cops found it while they were searching him after they handcuffed him, and shot him before they even tried to relieve him of it. Read the police report:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
The officer then apprehended the man on the ground and handcuffed him, according to the statement.
The sheriff's statement continues: "As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred."
And this is from yet another version of the police report... so, as I stated previously, the media does not report enough for me to make any judgement on the officers. And frankly, I'm more likely to believe the LEOs than I am the friends of a gangbanger. Police have cameras all over their vehicles pointing in several different locations. If they were in the wrong, they'll be charged, until that time, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
Some one so young losing their life is unfortunate, however, we reap what we sow. At 18 he was not old enough to purchase a handgun, he was a known gang member, and for whatever reason he was detained by the police. I wish this article carried more details, as the information given does not reveal whether or not it was a justified shooting. Due to the nature of a gang members life style, I am going to give the law enforcement officers the benefit of the doubt. I don't applaud the officer's choice of deadly force, I mourn with that officer, as no matter the situation, taking a life is never easy (speaking as a military veteran).
These are the type of people that need to be focused on in our current assault on gun owner's rights. I myself legally carry everywhere I go, and I disagree with one of the posts above about police officers fearing armed citizens. I frequently encounter law enforcement while openly carrying my gun, and have never received more than a head nod and a smile for it. Law abiding citizens going about their day while providing protection for themselves, their families, and their communities are not something to be feared, and most educated law enforcement officers know this.
What is this, the crystal ball hour?
jmb and the other bleeding hearts,
Oh so young. Bull! Younger than him and died by people like him. Children sitting on their front porch get a bullet in the head on a drive-by shooting. What about the young good men and women who die/murdered by people like him? What about the good young men and women who are sent over to the middle east to be murdered by this government, to defend some creeps who don't care about us.
Please stop whinning over crap. The country is better off without him. Taxpayers were saved thousands of dollars.
Elayne, I assure you I am no bleeding heart. LOL Quite the contrary, in fact. Do I applaud death? No. Do I mourn the loss of a gang member? No. Do I not take in to account military sent to serve overseas? Considering I am one of them... do I really need to answer that? Do I mourn young children being killed by thugs? Absolutely. Given the opportunity I'd place myself in front of those innocents every time. I still do not applaud death.
Not to be a jerk... but have you ever witnessed someone dying a violent death first hand? Have you ever had some one else's blood on your hands (literally)? I do not blame the officers. Their job is hard, and it's dangerous. I am sure that this was a justified shooting and that the information in this article is less than accurate, and definitely not complete.
My only point is that I do not applaud death. Nor do I feel sorry for criminals who put themselves in a situation in which they are likely going to die. I have no sympathy for the gang banger; it is, however, a shame that he did not make better choices.
JMB- I'm going to go with the assumption that SDN and elayne got this far in your comment:
had they bothered to read the rest of what you typed, they would have answered their own questions.
JMB - With our job we hope to at least know who the enemy is. With the police, it's an ever changing environment in a 'peaceful' land. A lot of tough situations are thrown at them on a regular basis. I know that I couldn't do what they do, even after what I've seen/done.
I don't know all the facts in this instance. MSNBC was yet again sparce with detail. But like you, I do know that I do not care for the loss of life. Even more than that, though, I dislike the thought of an innocent losing theirs to someone else's poor choices.
He did have it while handcuffed. The cops found it while they were searching him after they handcuffed him, and shot him before they even tried to relieve him of it. Read the police report:
On December 28, 2012, at 8:38 P.M., officers from the Moreno Valley Police Department responded to the 25000 block of Fir Avenue in Moreno Valley regarding a gang-related "man with a gun" call. The caller stated there were several males in front of the residence creating a disturbance and brandishing guns.
The first officer on scene arrived within two minutes. The officer learned that the subjects had fled in a vehicle prior to his arrival. The officer began obtaining suspect information from the reporting party. Minutes later, the reporting party pointed to a vehicle that was driving by, identifying the vehicle as being involved in the brandishing of the firearms. The officer immediately attempted to stop the vehicle. A male exited the vehicle and attempted to flee on foot. The officer managed to detain the subject on the ground and placed him in handcuffs. As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred.
The officer then apprehended the man on the ground and handcuffed him, according to the statement.
The sheriff's statement continues: "As this was occurring, an additional officer arrived on scene and observed the subject roll onto his side. The initial officer backed away from the subject and announced that the subject had a gun, at which time an officer involved shooting occurred."
And this is from yet another version of the police report... so, as I stated previously, the media does not report enough for me to make any judgement on the officers. And frankly, I'm more likely to believe the LEOs than I am the friends of a gangbanger. Police have cameras all over their vehicles pointing in several different locations. If they were in the wrong, they'll be charged, until that time, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.
I own a few firearms, even the so called bad ones. Never wanted to take a life, pull it on anyone or even carry. This guy got what some would say was coming to him, either by a cop or another gang banger.
thug justice. amen. one less to worry about, defend yourself against, and eventually pay for.
Once again, inflammatory reporting from MSNBC. This is my surprised look. Interesting how all these gang members who get killed by police or other gang members were about to get their lives together just before they were killed. Yea, sure they were. There is more to this story than has been reported, I promise. But, its just so much more fun to write it this way and inflame the public. Sorry about your nephew, Aunt Anita, but if you are going to pretend to cry on national TV, try to at least have some tears in your act.