The VA is a joke, it been this way for many years...sad story.

Too many tours of Combat...They are wore out and wore down Physically mentally and emotionally.

10 years of war is enough.

If Mc Cain wants a 100 year war then he needs to reinstate the draft.

Reinstate the draft

Start a White House petition to reinstate the draft and give our troops some real support.

Fresh conscripts

What we need is an end to these wars and the irresponsible use of US troops to promote the interests of the rich. In early 1900's US soldiers were dying in Banana Wars, now they are dying in the Oil Wars. Same criminals using US foreign policy to enrich themselves.

As a vet, let me be the first too say, we treat our vets horribly. Illegally foreclose on their homes, while they are deployed. Charge them 1000 dollar cell phone bills. Deny them housing as a transition from public to private. Drastically cut back on their healthcare. I could go on and on.. But it basically boils down to treating them as second class citizens, how many damn vets actually get a Veterans Day paid off? And businesses do so much for the military, Bullsh!t. You treat us like garbage. Not too long ago, I remember people spitting on vets, seems we are headed down that road again.

its our govt. not the soldiers. when they signed up they thought they would be protecting our country but all their doing is govt. dirty work. bombing poor people, killing children. all these people want to do is have a life, family and religion. they are caught up in corruption. just like vietnam, these arent wars they are personal grudges from people in power.

The VA might be a joke to those that have never used it services, but they've been nothing short of fantastic for my Dad. In fact, everyone who we've known who's used them, have been very happy with the quality of care they've received. The VA is a program war veterans EARNED by going to combat for YOUR freedoms, freedoms FOOLS are trying to willingly throw away nowadays.

My Dad is a Vietnam War Veteran, as his daughter, I NEVER wanted to be in these useless money draining 'Wars' Bush started and Obama has continued. If you want to back the troops, send your kid, but mine is not going anywhere near them...

Our Military Industrial Complex has bee taken over by a bunch of UN Banking cartel Globalist who are corporate fascist whores.

They are using our MIC for their protection and best interest.

Congress has not declared war since 1942.

but yet we have been in preemptive war after preemptive war.

Sad that a Soldier would refuse to seek treatment because it will "end their career"...but will choose suicide, which ends their life (which also, duh, ends their career).

The reality is, this isnt a sign of their mental illness...it's a sign of how much ones ego can destroy a person through and through.

There are PLENTY of soldiers who admit they were damaged mentally by the war, seek the help, and accept - if it happens - they have lost their careers.

And those soldiers, I guarantee, were just as mentally ill...

the only difference, their ego's werent as huge...or maybe werent as macho.

But they are alive, indeed, they are...and losing your Real American Hero status is such a small price to pay for gaining your mental health back, and the family and friends you love.

The same people that support cutting military spending in order to reduce government spending are the same ones that will read this article and think that something needs to be done. How about NOT cutting military spending, but redirect it to where it needs to be spent. Stop sending our troops and the US taxpayer dollars over to countries that don't want us there. If a country asks for our military help, charge them for the service.

Chirs150 - you are a POS.

Chirs150 You are a freakin troll. You need to jump off a cliff. And sheepled your right, to many tours But they also average more combat hours in the 10 month tour than any other war. My brother is a vietnam vet and the VA over the recent years has helped him. The Fisher house has helped him big time. They clean ya up and point you in the right direction.. But Sheepled mybe your right about the draft. They should start with Bush jrs daughter and every elected officals sons and daughters, Even old enough grandchildren.That didnt speak up for an illegal war Iraq. Afgan is from what we know, the only place we should have been. That war got put off because of Iraq. So in reality instead of 5000 troops lost we have 10,000 dead, 40 to 50 thousand with severe war wounds. 1 million has served in those 2 wars alone. Many of those will require treatment for the rest of there lives. All have earned lifetime health benefits and a monthly check. Now that being said. Many soldiers have come back and claimed it was at 10 to 1 death ratio. so how many haters did Bush jr spawn that would love to come here and kill our innocent people. I support our troops to the fullest and would gladly help them in anyway I can. They did what they was suppose to do. So chris150 Ill pay for you a one way ticket to Iraq or Afgan. No problem. And even make sure you make the flight on time.

I fail to see how, we are spending a fortune on these programs, when people here are hurting, paying way too much in tax. Fine, you are in the military they should take care of you using affordable methods, but when you get out, cut it, just like any other job. That simple. Sorry it makes you mad, but we need to look at the bottom line first, everything else second.

I fail to see why anyone would suggest that the sons and daughters of our politicians should be targeted for forced entry into military service. They have no more control over who their parents are and what their parents do for a living than you or I do.

Chris150, The military uses up it's soldiers, it breaks them both physically and mentally. Military members spend their lives in service to this country, the least this country owes them is healthcare. We have an all volunteer force that has spent the last 10+ years at war. I know, lets go back to the draft. YOU FIRST.

The other half of the problem is there's not much to come home to, I mean even a decent job can take your mind off things..

sheepled - If there was an honest draft, one the sons and daughters of politicians and CEO's and wealth couldn't avoid, we wouldn't have gone into Iraq or Vietnam or possibly even Afghanistan.

Dom, Where is your humanity? These people aren't weak, they have just been way too strong for far too long.

The dod has been hiding and understating suicides since day one. the question is, what are they putting in the chow? or are they simply not screening applicants who apply for military duty as they should. Someone either has an answer and is hiding it, or simply is incompetent in their position. Maybe if the surgeon General would get off the cigarette wagon for a few min, he might launch an investigation. maybe even interview some of the troops off the record. maybe

Crirs150 Nice to see you right wingers are so concerned with our troops. Money before troops, sounds very republican to me. And don't worry, when you meet your creator, he will explain what I cannot.

@trust2112 (#1.5):

I am now a fan of yours for stating what i have been preaching for years. I applaud you. It's hard to add to what you stated but the one major point that also needs to be reiterated is that had it not been for our brave vets, time and time again, the people who did not serve do not realize that it is because of the veteran that those people and our government are allowed to live out the "American Dream". I, for one, would exempt every combat veteran from forever paying taxes, and especially, if they be a disabled veteran.

Mortality

All suicides

• Number of deaths: 36,909
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 12.0
• Cause of death rank: 10

Firearm suicides

• Number of deaths: 18,735
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.1

Suffocation suicides

• Number of deaths: 9,000
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.9

Poisoning suicides

• Number of deaths: 6,398
• Deaths per 100,000 population: 2.1

Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2009, tables 9, 10, 18 [PDF - 2.1 MB]

Some not only refuse treatment but get heavily hooked on drugs or alcohol, lose everything and become homeless.

Hard to imagine the stress our troops are under when they have no idea who the enemy is. The only group they are certain to be an enemy is congress.

I love how the people who have never done a day in service are the first to criticize those who do. You all would be up sh!t creek without soldiers defending your ability to hide behind your computer and troll. Dom and Jessica, seriously...maybe it's the mold in your parents' basement that's messing up your brains but grow the f#ck up and stop being trolls.

Angela, that's nice that your dad gets to use the VA. Guess how many soldiers have to contact senators just to get an appointment? You have to fight to even use the services, even if you are a disabled vet, and they claim you are "cured" if you do try to get help.

Nice to see you right wingers are so concerned with our troops. Money before troops, sounds very republican to me.

This is such an absurd statement and the reason the political climate in this country is what it is today. Republicans are NOT anti-military. I am a registered Republican and I spent 8 years of my life in the United States Army. Republicans are not all rich, are not all white and are not anti-military. I cannot speak for all Republicans, but I chose the Republican party because I believe in smaller government. I believe that people should be responsible for their actions and decisions and that politicians should not legislate our behavior.

This story is appalling, and made worse by some of the responses on this vine. We should pull out every stop for all the people who go to war "for us," if we can't just stop going to war, period. It is disgusting the way our soldiers are treated. And for all of you self-centered people on this vine, Chris 150 comes to mind, if you can't take life beyond money, you are really a sad, sad excuse for a human being. Shame on you, and if you are just a troll on here, do something with your life that is worthwhile.

Dear Sir, (Chisr150)

I can respect your opinion, but not you. Obviously, you nor anyone who thinks alike has ever served their country. Your concept of freedom is a distorted privilege. Americans know and understand that our freedom is not free! It comes with a hugh price individually and collectively. I suggest that if you believe this cost to be too high for your living free in America, move to a country that does not hold their military's service and sacrifice in such high esteem...or enlist and learn first hand.

I agree that we do need to do more for our vets; However, this suicide thing is another issue all together. Bootcamps aren't as tough as they used to be. They need to be mentally tough to weed out the those that can not handle war. I am sorry, I believe that the Vietnam Vets saw and went through a hell of a lot more than todays troops, they were a lot younger on average and endured a horrendous homecoming. Why are these veteran's killing themselves? Because they can't take what the saw? Well I guess we should be on suidicide watch for all of the first responders to the recent elementary school shooting. Come on, yes you have been through a lot, but man up!!! I come from a long line of vets, WWII, Korea, Vietnam. I have lost loved ones and my brother stepped on a land mine and is 100% disabled. I have a great deal of love, respect and admiration for our armed forces, but I believe suicide is a sign of weakness and a copout. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, but I think bootcamp used to do a better job of weeding out the mentally weak. There are so many veteran's out there with physical disablities like the extreme increase in limb loss due to the roadside bombs. They are plugging through life without arms and legs. They need all the financial and emotional support our government can give them!

The sad truth is the majority of enlisted service people come from poor homes, this is true with a draft as well. They are kids who have a minimal shot of a college education due to lack of finances or direction. The service makes it seem possible to them. Alas, it's a dangling carrot without promise. These are people who are considered expendable to our govt.

"Fresh conscripts"

A terrible idea, one that would create worse problems than the ones it's trying to solve. Veteran suicides are tragic and awful, but conscription - forcing young men and women to fight for a cause they may or may not believe in - is also evil, particularly when it's only being used to provide more "fresh" fodder for unjust wars.

People suggest that a draft might help the war end - after all, more people would have something invested - but remember that it still took four or five years of mass protests for Vietnam to finally end. In the meantime, thousands of unwilling participants were being maimed, traumatized, and/or killed.

Much work needs to be done to help ease the psychological baggage of warfare on soldiers, but the draft is rather assuredly not the answer.

-

On another note:

Those who condemn anyone who commits suicide as "cowardly" is a fool who has never suffered the psychological experience of despair. A vast majority of those who kill themselves do it because they see no other way out of their problems. They think that there's no way that their lives will ever get better. It's short-sighted, yes, and it has a terrible effect on family members left behind - but one of the symptoms of clinical depression is an inability to believe that things might get better. You become myopic.

When you're not depressed, you can rationally look at things and say "well, you could do this and that would help things get better." It becomes easy to judge those who can't see the solutions that you see.

Someone might suggest therapy or medicine to them, but even without the cultural baggage ("only weak people experience mental illness," "seeing a shrink means you're violent and crazy," etc.), they often don't think that it can possibly do any good. When you're depressed, the feelings of despair are overwhelming and you become convinced that there are no answers, that there's no way out. You feel trapped.

Chirs150

What, the VA is doing to much. Fiscal Cliff anyone. If anything should be cut, it is these programs. The VA spends tons of money every year, and that is money that could lower our taxes!

Have a nice day and enjoy your freedom you POS.

"and that politicians should not legislate our behavior."

While I don't want to turn this into a political issue... You do realize that Republicans are just as interested in legislating behavior as Democrats, right? It's only the behaviors that they want to legislate that differ.

YourOnly

"Fresh conscripts"

A terrible idea, one that would create worse problems than the ones it's trying to solve. Veteran suicides are tragic and awful, but conscription - forcing young men and women to fight for a cause they may or may not believe in - is also evil, particularly when it's only being used to provide more "fresh" fodder for unjust wars.

People suggest that a draft might help the war end - after all, more people would have something invested - but remember that it still took four or five years of mass protests for Vietnam to finally end. In the meantime, thousands of unwilling participants were being maimed, traumatized, and/or killed.

Much work needs to be done to help ease the psychological baggage of warfare on soldiers, but the draft is rather assuredly not the answer.

I could not disagree more. When I initially entered the service it was 2 month before they instituted the lottery...my number was 32 so that didn't change much. I'm very familiar with the draft and while it changed my life forever, I and millions of others got through it.

Here's the deal...this country needs to OWN it's wars. The American people need skin in the game. This crap of sending less than 1% of the population to war and everyone else goes to the mall and forgets about it is unbelievable. I agree that the way the draft was conducted was BS. If daddy was wealthy enough you didn't have to worry. You could get a college deferment or even take an extended vacation to France to "save their souls from Catholicism" and receive a ministry deferment (interestingly enough available to Mormons only).

What we need is a draft with NO deferments. So long as you can walk you can serve in some capacity. Perhaps tack an education benefit to it but NO deferments! Then the next time Congress want's to send young men and women to war, they can start with their own kids...you're way's to convenient and painless, and war should never be painless for those who don't have to fight it, only send others.

After 23 years in the Army, I have seen a steady decline in the what you might call "resilience" in soldiers coming in. It truly seems as if the younger generations have NO CLUE how to deal with the stress that most people in the past had to handle. In other words, I think we are getting more and more mentally "bruised or broken" people joining. They are most likely mentally unstable before they even hit basic training, whether people want to admit it or not. Add to this the fact that most of them grew up in the era of remote interaction (i.e. facebook, cell phones, and XBox Live, etc.) and it is little wonder that they have no idea how to deal with reality or even ask for help if they needed it. I would like to see the breakdown of ages of these soldiers and whether or not they even served in combat. And if they were deployed, were they actual combat arms or did they work in combat service support (i.E. NOT involved in combat but working in the safety of a camp.) Trust me, there is a big difference.

Honestly, I'm sure I'll get berated for this, but it is not the military doing this. Sure there are some who are exposed to traumatic situations and they break down. But, truly, I think it is our society as a whole that has raised these generations to be weaker mentally. What a kid thinks is "difficult" these days would make kids from earlier generations laugh; not to mention the Depression era generation. Not sure what the solution might be, but definitely can't pin this one on the military. The requirments and rigors of the military really hasn't changed in hundreds of years. So the only difference is the people serving. I think we need to at what is going on BEFORE they even joined.

What about the psychotropic drugs that are given to our servicemen? You know the ones that caused them to come home and kill their wives. Every serviceman deserves the right to know EXACTLY what is in those shots that they are given.

@MomSince78 - "I am sorry, I believe that the Vietnam Vets saw and went through a hell of a lot more than todays troops ... Why are these veteran's killing themselves?"

You do realize that Vietnam vets also got depressed and that they also experienced PTSD and that they also killed themselves, right?

"Well I guess we should be on suidicide watch for all of the first responders to the recent elementary school shooting."

You do realize that in many such cases, counseling services are made available for the first responders and anyone else who was on the scene of a mass shooting - right? That's because they realize the psychological toll such things can have even on the strongest, most experienced individuals.

"but man up!!!"

One of the worst imaginable responses to mental illness. The idea that mental illness is a result of weakness - that depression is an "unmanly" thing - is exactly what keeps these veterans from getting the mental help they need. You perpetuate that notion, and thus you are part of the problem, MomSince.

"but I believe suicide is a sign of weakness and a copout."

That's because you're a fool who doesn't know what you're talking about and who has never experienced the despair of severe depression.

"I'm sorry if I have offended anyone, but I think bootcamp used to do a better job of weeding out the mentally weak."

It's not that you're offensive, though you are that - it's that your words are egregiously wrong.

Once again, YOU are part of the problem. YOU are one of the reasons these soldiers don't want to seek mental help.

Mental illness, depression, and PTSD have NOTHING to do with "mental weakness." Yet people hear the rhetoric spouted by ignoramuses like you, and thus they feel that they shouldn't seek out mental help. They're told, by people just like you, that only "mentally weak" people get depressed, and that they just need to "man up" and "tough it out" if they're feeling down. Thus they don't go to the doctor. Thus they try to deal with their illness on their own, in spite of the fact that they've never been given the right tools to do that (ie, they haven't been taught proper coping strategies, and they haven't been taught how to identify when things are getting worse) - often, the results are tragic.

"There are so many veteran's out there with physical disablities like the extreme increase in limb loss due to the roadside bombs."

This is true. What you don't seem to understand is that different people respond to the same events differently. Some people experience trauma and yet go on to lead very good, fulfilling lives without any outside help. Other people experience the same things and It's not about weakness - it's about differences in brain chemistry and the ways that we process trauma.

@Getmadstaymad - "What about the psychotropic drugs that are given to our servicemen? You know the ones that caused them to come home and kill their wives. Every serviceman deserves the right to know EXACTLY what is in those shots that they are given."

I love it when people think they're "challenging government propaganda" by reciting their own propaganda - propaganda, incidentally, that only reveals the reciter's own EXTREME ignorance and willingness to swallow whatever nonsense they read on their favorite conspiracy sites.

I hope the Kool-Aid at least tasted good.

@getmadstaymad,

Wow. WTH are you ranting about? This is not the crop circles and Free Masons conspiracy site.

"Soldiers suicides outpaced combat deaths in 2012"

I C that Jane Fonda has been at work again. (sarcasm)

What a heartbreaking headline. Bring the troops home to the help and support they deserve.

Youronly - good response to that abortion that calls itself a "mom." I shudder to think of the vacuum of empathy and support it's children had to grow up in.

So we're doing everything we can to prevent suicides in the military, recognizing that it's a complex and urgent problem.

What is complex about it? What kind of person would volunteer to go slaughter people who had done absolutely nothing to us at the behest of a drunken egomaniac who needed to impress his daddy?

Do you think a well-balanced person would do a thing like that?

I don't think it's complicated at all. These are people who have low self-worth or they wouldn't have been there in the first place.

And don't bother with the tired b.s. about protecting my country, my freedom, or my rights. What transparent nonsense.

Remember, soldiers are part of the 47% of "worthless" Americans that Romney and Republicans complain about not paying income tax.

And what do Republicans say about people who can not afford to pay their own medical bills, physical or mental? What did Republican shout again? I forgot... oh ya, "LET THEM DIE!!!"

Is there any surprise that we do not support the VA enough, when half the country feels this way?

When you volunteer to get paid blood money to invade and occupy small countries so the corporations can procure the country's oil, minerals, and other resources, and you kill, injure and torture people, you create bad karma for yourself, and maybe even a guilty conscience. Eventually, the evil of what you did by serving in the Imperial Army may get to your mind, and make you self-destrucive. The first step in healing for volunteer soldiers is for them to admit that what they did was immoral, and to work for peace. As long as they try to cling to the idea that they were doing "god's work" by killing for the Empire, they will never be psychologically healthy.

The real issue is the horrible leadership that the military has now. People who look after thier promotion packet and NCOER/OER bullets more than their soldiers. There are very few true leaders left in the Army. I have seen a lot of soldiers needs neglected because an officer or NCO was too busy trying to look good instead of looking after his/her soldiers.

The sad truth is the majority of enlisted service people come from poor homes, this is true with a draft as well. They are kids who have a minimal shot of a college education due to lack of finances or direction. The service makes it seem possible to them. Alas, it's a dangling carrot without promise. These are people who are considered expendable to our govt.

People who are willing to murder other people for a shot at college ought to be expendable to the entire human race.

Wow. Some of these responses just boggle the mind. I guess that everyone has a right to their opinion, but it's hard for me to fathom the hate for the United States military that some of you Americans have.

"The Army's suicide rate has climbed by 9 percent since the military branch launched its suicide-prevention campaign in 2009."

Sounds about right for an Army campaign. More money and lives squandered on a program that accomplishes the opposite of what it's intended for.

Hello folks, one sure way to minimize this travesty is no more Oil, Corporate or Banking cartel wars.

OBAMA Loves ILLEGALS

Too bad American veterans aren't eligible for OBAMA's DREAM ACT for ILLEGALS.

Obama doesn't have a Dream Act, Congress had a Dream Act. The only President in American history to grant amnesty to Illegals was a Republican...Ronald Reagan. ...have a nice day.

Legalize-the-Constitution

The real issue is the horrible leadership that the military has now. People who look after thier promotion packet and NCOER/OER bullets more than their soldiers. There are very few true leaders left in the Army. I have seen a lot of soldiers needs neglected because an officer or NCO was too busy trying to look good instead of looking after his/her soldiers.

Which would make the military no different that it was when I joined in 1969. And no different than when my father joined in 1944. And no different than when my Grandfather joined in 1916. It doesn't change.

Really it won't impact a security clearance, by seeing a mental health specialist. A person can't have a gun in our country if they have mental issues, but they can have a security clearance that might enable them to operate nuclear missiles, let alone operate a M-16! Outrageous!

Hello folks, one sure way to minimize this travesty is no more Oil, Corporate or Banking cartel wars.

You said it all, in ONE sentence, trust. thank you. And may I add NO MORE American henchmony...... ahem.....excuse me.....sorry about that........HEDGEMONY, in these third world cat litter boxes either.

People who are willing to murder other people for a shot at college ought to be expendable to the entire human race.

And so should YOU, for the most pinheaded, asinine post yet on these boards. But to be expected, coming from you.

It's apparent from these comments that the military isn't the only obstacle to depressed soldiers accepting mental health care. Clinically depressed people are NOT wimps. They have altered brain chemistry, most often from their own trauma or what they've witnessed. Suicidal people who bounce back (with or without treatment) are stronger than you can imagine, surviving their personal hell. When one doesn't make it out alive, the failure is also our macho society, which affects female military the same way. It's no surprise that the military is supposedly "fixing" something but it gets progressively worse.

Do you really want an army of killing machines that have no feelings and can kill anything or anyone at any time? Tough men like John Wayne? He was an ACTOR. What you saw of him was MADE UP. Loved his movies, but John Wayne was a sometimes unstable heavy drinker who smoked like a chimney and died of cancer. He was married several times and at least some of his kids didn't like him. Not exactly a fulfilling legacy.

And whomever commented that the Sandy Hook first responders saw the same thing (or worse) as war -- let's see how many of THEM commit suicide in the next 20 years. Of course we won't hear about that. Nor will we hear about how traumatized they are, whether they've sought help, did it work etc. We won't hear how many had to change jobs because of flashbacks and anxiety. We won't hear about the ones that end up divorced, drinking, doing drugs and so on because of the horror they saw. We also won't hear about their damaged family members.

You bend people too far and they may break. Period. Why should you care? Because you never know if or when you or your loved ones can have a mind altering incident or injury that leaves their brains short circuited and in need of meds, support and love.

And surviving such things doesn't mean anything else. It just means you didn't kill yourself. It doesn't mean life is good or that you don't wish a semi-truck would just run you over (because you don't "believe in" suicide. Don't assume losing arms and legs and trudging on with life is so trivial. It's a VERY BIG deal when someone recovers even part of their normal life after such a tragedy. Don't minimize what it takes to keep on keeping on.

hey commander-in-chief obama- these are your men. do something other then campaign.

You don't need to make excuses for them, they can find ways to cope like the rest of us... They are not wimps, but freeloaders looking to cash in on tax dollars on issues they can handle at home. Just find ways to cope. Mental health should not be covered by the military period, it should be up to them to pay for any and all mental help, since it is not needed. I for one hope there are more obsitcles in the way of this help. We pay enough, drop the issue and lets move on.

I live in Breckenridge, Colorado. Each year the Breckenridge Outdoor Education Center (BOEC) hold a program for disabled veterans. I wish that each of you that loathe the military and have your preconceived idea of what soldiers are like would come out and spend time with these people that opted to serve their country and have become disfigured and disabled because of that decision.

Anyone that has posted hatred for this all volunteer military should be thanking each and every member of military, because if not for them volunteering, you would be drafted.

KarlStevens-2597445

That is by far true enough but its not our peoples faults that they are put into these types of situations and its truely sad that we the people pay the price for these crimes and they get away with making money off the masses whom die and/or are conquered.... I'm so tired of seeing numbers that have died for near senseless reasons as this.... And these actions are close to reaching out to the stars too, which is even sadder than all those whom died combined....

I'm lucky to have by age alone and birth date to have missed the major wars in this country and thus have not become currupted by any action that I would have taken in order to survive.... I do have an only son who is now 13 years old and the major and mandatory draft is coming as world 3 is nearing in the middle east....

Peace will come when the earth has been cleansed of all life, there will always be greed, envy, hate and death even among animals and until that day just kick back and watch them die....

Hey Chirs150, I think your misspelled moniker says all anyone needs to know about you Chris. Do you like what you see when you look into the mirror?

great comments "Granny": for my 2cents worth, I have to say the problem "Of getting someone to accept mental health assistance", might be not such a problem as it is part of the problem. It appears there are far, far too few mental health practitioners available to help these men and women in the military. As a result, the soldiers are most typically being handed a package of 4 psychiatric drugs and a hand shake and told to "have a good life". Anyone who understands the nature of these drugs ( each of the four drugs is "black box labeled" by the FDA for increased possibility of suicide) which perhaps does not so much decrease the chance of suicide as it does INSURE the suicide option..... "Conspiracy theory"? or just good business... I actually heard a Surgeon General of the Army say a "dead soldier is an honor to his country"..... I think he meant, it was also less expensive than keeping a soldier on a disability pension for the rest of perhaps a long life...... and that was 30 years ago. The problem with those drugs is, they may kill you if you try to stop taking them.... Pretty much solves the D O D a lot of expense.

I have to confess my bias though. I've always thought Generals , for the most part were just another variety of 'fat cat' looking out for themselves and their own pension / country club benefits and not for any benefit that should be due to lesser humans.

Oh the Chirs150, I did that one for a reason... Anyhow, you may not like what I have to say, but saving money in the government should be number one on the list... Sorry if you don't agree, but I am so tired of the whole, oh let's do everything for our vets, they gave so much... You know what, I pay taxes, so that is my main concern. Like it or not, I don't care. I think you should give it thought though.

Real Army Wife

Dom, Where is your humanity? These people aren't weak, they have just been way too strong for far too long.

#1.19 - Thu Jan 3, 2013 1:27 PM PST

--------------------

You are probably quite correct, "Real Army Wife."

Soldiers -- by the very nature of the hazardous work they do and the training they continuously go through -- makes many of them into stoics. They hold it all in, and accept so much responsibility and duty to live and reflect the positive Army Values -- and they usually do it in silence with so much self-control -- until they suffer a severe depression or breakdown for being let down so much by a series of circumstantial setbacks and unrelenting stressors that's out of their control.

Where had their social and emotional network of active support by their friends, co-workers and family members gone to, when they needed it the most at the lowest points in their lives?

"I don't care." That one statement provides more insight into the condition of your heart, mind and soul than you can possibly imagine, Chirs150. I will pray for you because I remember all too well when I didn't care about pretty much anything. It's a lost, lonely and painful place, isn't it Chirs150? Otherwise, you wouldn't be frantically expressing that emotion on a worldwide social news networking site for all to see/read. Isn't that ironic? You don't care, but you want all of us to know that and you want us to care that you don't care and, further, care about what you have to say. In other words, your "pain" is written all over your posts. Well, I care that you don't care, Chirs150, and I want you to know that I understand. I feel your pain having been there, done that. Peace be with you tonight, Chirs150.

Human-4637934

I've heard that, repeatedly, over the years and, IN MY EXPERIENCE (I'm not going to debate anyone else's personal issues with the VA, because I can only speak from/for MY life story), that's simply not true. Every service personnel I've ever know has had zero issue obtaining services for a legitimate health issue (whether it be a mental health issue or a physical health issue), ever. Especially if they are disabled, more especially if disable during a tour in the service.

My step grandfather, who was a WWII vet. My Uncle, a Korean war vet. To my father, a Vietnam vet. Not to mention quite a few of my friends and acquaintances who are vets (I'm in my mid 40's, if that makes a difference). All use or used the VA system with great success and no problems. Maybe the problems are regional?...

I am at a loss for words patter123.

i have to say as a vet VA medical is great .... the other benefits and business VA are horrible i have been treated VERY well by the medical staff and insulted by the benefits councilor its gotten to the point that i dread going down to the business office to do ANYTHING i shouldn't have to fight for my benefits after fighting for my country .... i have more to give .... but the benefits office seems to think I'm a lazy slob for even asking what is happening with my benefits and such ...

Way to go Bush, Cheney, Rove, Rumsfeldt and Bush team...are you proud of what you did to America with your lies into Iraq war? Are you proud abandoning troops in Afganistan to give war profits to Cheney and friends? Are you proud of what you have done the the soldiers families?

And Romney hired the same damn team to do it all over again.....how crazy are repubs for allowing that?

Repubs, are you proud to cut vet benefits for vets and vote against a jobs bill for vets?

America wake up....take care of our vets...they were busy taking care of you.....right or wrong war....they did their jobs.

here stands a patriot who has never seen war ... ^ look at the lies and hate they spread this is not what i fought for ... you should be ashamed of your self ... you have the right to say that but i have the right to reprimand you for it .... L.D. you make me sick ....

L.D. IS sick, Lorax12. He/she just doesn't realize it. .. yet.

Roman soldiers went from war to war without suicides and those were very up close battles, perhaps we need to sign up only those men with the warrior gene, but there will be blood, tons of it.

Chirs150 Comment collapsed by the community

What, the VA is doing to much. Fiscal Cliff anyone. If anything should be cut, it is these programs. The VA spends tons.

Spoken like a true Greedy SISSY... you are what is wrong with this country Chirs150 !!

Well, at least we are out of Iraq.

Best thing to do would be to cut our losses, admit Afghanistan is a lost cause, pull everyone out, and continue to watch that area of the world with drones and satellites.

Not one more U.S. soldier or citizen's life is worth losing if we can help it.

Perhaps soldiers are finding themselves incapable of dealing with what happened to me. With 18 years of honorable, dedicated, meritorious military service, I discovered that everything I had lived my life for was a lie; that we are NOT free; that the government I was working for IS the domestic enemy of the constitution; that the socialist have control and are destroying the paradigm upon which this once great country was based; that all of the politically correct protected groups don't want equality, they want advantage and are being given that at every turn; that the Constitution I swore repeatedly to fight, die, kill, or destroy to defend would get more respect from government officials if it were printed on toilet paper; that the last bastion of freedom in the world, the USA, was irreparably broken. The same phenomenon occured in the ranks of the Russian army after their revolution when they discovered how sick and twisted the soviets were.

So many dead with no one responsible. Protect the USA! What a joke, so many politicians have blood on their hands and so many companies have benefited.. very sad.. so many media distractions and sadly so many sheep don't care...

...................."Operation Enduring Freedom"......................

___________________________________________

Boy,,,, there is what you would call creative packaging. ("Freedom" has nothing to do with it.)

I am so sick & tired of seeing our military men, women, and their families suffer for such lost causes as Iraq & Afghanistan.

What a sad waste of fine lives for such a useless lie, all financed on borrowed money for nothing.

(Baghdad was just listed yesterday on this news source as the "least livable city in the world". "Mission accomplished", buddy!)

.

This is blood on Obama's hands at this point, as he promised us he would end the wars as his first duty in office. "You can take that to the bank" he said.

.

"Some Army families who recently lost members to suicide criticize the branch for failing to aggressively shake a culture in which soldiers believe they'll be deemed weak and denied promotion if they seek mental health aid."

It is so sad that many people still feel this way. It is a true sign of courage and strength to ask for help. I don't know what can be done to counter the culture of the myth that it is a weakness, but I hope someone figures it out.

Please, if you are thinking of taking your life, please, please ask for help to deal with your issues. Your family needs and loves you. Your friends need and love you. And all of those people and opportunities that await you in your future.... please live for it all. It can get better, but not by itself. Look at it this way. Everyone needs someone else's specialization for some things. NO one can do everything. I can't protect our country, but you can and did. Mental health professionals are trained to help guide you through situations you can't navigate for yourself. It will be the best investment you can ever make in yourself.

Please do not take your life.

Please.

Afghanistan may be a lost cause, but I don't think America is a lost cause.

I am beginning to think that so much arguing and hate spewed on this Vine may not be healthy for a lot of people. It doesn't really bother me when people are rude because I just put those folks on Ignore Author if they are too bad. But, I can see why it might really get to others who may read forums and watch all the bickering in the news. I can see why someone might feel hopeless with all the negativity in the world.

Perhaps we all need to try to be a little kinder. Sometimes just a smile or a nice word to someone is all they need to help them through a rough day.

Dom;

Spoken like a true arm chair trooper who never served at anything other than a desk in the rear or stateside. When you consider it took about 6 months for our troops to get back from service in WWII, 3 months from Korea, they had time to be debriefed, and unwind before they got home. Vietnam you were about 13 hours from front line to main street. With little or no debrief and R&R. Same for the troops in the current wars. And like Vietnam, you add in multiple deployments and involuntary extensions and you get a recipe for this sort of thing. Prolonged exposure to battle field conditions will take a toll, unless of course you are a sociopath.

Before you call anyone weak, my myopic friend, walk a mile in their boots. Until then, spare us your insensitive, self righteous, holier than thou comments.

Chirs150... a serpent crawls and eats dust, you do in $#*!.

Many of you (soldiers) kind of covered the entire subject. I agree that the caliber of soldier has drastically changed. Goes beyond "no home training". Resilency has become the "buzz word" in military circles and this "crop" (last 10 years) has been lacking. We changed our military into a PC police... training (though should not be abusive) was strenuous.. and difficult... There was a healthy failure/recycle rate. which has gone down because of training cost (cheaper to keeper)

Service
1998 rate
Latest Available Rate (2006)

Army
17.9%
13.6%

Air Force
8.8%
7.1%

Navy
17.0%
14.0%

Marines
13.5%
11.7%

Training was eased, standards change to include a "variety" of troops. This was seen as a "progressive" thing but it has turned the military in to a "PC" police. A soldier two weeks ago committed suicide, the command had the "soldier" in "treatment" but the docs did not want to intern him and arranged for him to "continue" service with counseling. Why the docs didn't "commit him?".. because they did not want to seem intolerant, cost of treatment and reflection on command environment. The Ft. Hood shooter is a prime example of PC military medicine.

Also.. I know this is a partisan atmosphere but one has got to wonder why suicides under bush duing Iraq was at par with the national average with a spike in 08.. and has been increasing ever since under Obama... it is not coincidence.

The Army's suicide rate has climbed by nine percent since the military branch
launched its suicide-prevention campaign in 2009.

Usual Government statistics......

As the smell of incense,

As you sit beneath a wind filled sail.

I die today

As the smell of flowers,

As one sits on shore of drunkeness.

I die today,

As a man longs to go home,

After life in prison.

(The literal translation of a 3500 year old suicide note.):

As the odour of myrrh,
As when one sitteth under the sail on a windy day.

Death is before me today
As the odour of lotus flowers,
As when one sitteth on the shore of drunkenness.

Death is before me today,
As a man longs to see his house
When he has spent years in captivity.

There is a service available to ALL veterans that have served in combat zones. The Vet Center is a program run through the VA that allows a veterans to receive counseling and help reintegrating into civilian life. All of their services are FREE.

Here is there "Who are we" introduction from the website...
"Who We Are"

We are the people in VA who welcome home war veterans with honor by providing quality readjustment counseling in a caring manner. Vet Centers understand and appreciate Veterans’ war experiences while assisting them and their family members toward a successful post-war adjustment in or near their community.

VET CENTER HISTORY
The Vet Center Program was established by Congress in 1979 out of the recognition that a significant number of Vietnam era vets were still experiencing readjustment problems. Vet Centers are community based and part of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs. In April 1991, in response to the Persian Gulf War, Congress extended the eligibility to veterans who served during other periods of armed hostilities after the Vietnam era. Those other periods are identified as Lebanon, Grenada, Panama, the Persian Gulf, Somalia, and Kosovo/Bosnia. In October 1996, Congress extended the eligibility to include WWII and Korean Combat Veterans. The goal of the Vet Center program is to provide a broad range of counseling, outreach, and referral services to eligible veterans in order to help them make a satisfying post-war readjustment to civilian life. On April 1, 2003 the Secretary of Veterans Affairs extended eligibility for Vet Center services to veterans of Operation Enduring Freedom (OEF) and on June 25, 2003 Vet Center eligibility was extended to veterans of Operation Iraqi Freedom (OIF) and subsequent operations within the Global War on Terrorism (GWOT). The family members of all veterans listed above are eligible for Vet Center services as well. On August 5, 2003 VA Secretary Anthony J. Principi authorized Vet Centers to furnish bereavement counseling services to surviving parents, spouses, children and siblings of service members who die of any cause while on active duty, to include federally activated Reserve and National Guard personnel."

Their services are available to ALL war zone veterans. Here is a list of the services that they offer.

Readjustment counseling is a wide range of psycho social services offered to eligible Veterans and their families in the effort to make a successful transition from military to civilian life. They include:

• Individual and group counseling for Veterans and their families
• Family counseling for military related issues
• Bereavement counseling for families who experience an active duty death
• Military sexual trauma counseling and referral
• Outreach and education including PDHRA, community events, etc.
• Substance abuse assessment and referral
• Employment assessment & referral
• VBA benefits explanation and referral
• Screening & referral for medical issues including TBI, depression, etc.

They have centers all over the country.
Here is there website.
http://www.vetcenter.va.gov/Vet_Center_Services.asp

In case the above link does not work, Contact your nearest Vet Center through information provided in the Vet Center Directory or listings in your local blue pages. Vet Center staff are available toll free during normal business hours at 1-800-905-4675 (Eastern) and 1-866-496-8838 (Pacific).

If anyone knows a veteran that needs immediate help, they have a hotline to call.

Veteran's Crisis Line 1-800-273-8255

I learned about this program while taking a Veteran's Leadership Class here in Tampa. They have some great services that if you are a war zone veteran.... you qualify! They can even help with jobs, resume writing and interview skills. No matter what all the people posting think about the VA, this a program that is trying to make a difference. At the very least it is a place to start if you need help.

What a shame that you are not being recognized for your excellent and informative post Paddleboard. Thank you for your advocacy and my sincere thank you for your service to our country! Sincerely, Katy

Need to re-inspect Spc. Busbee's Class A uniform. 1) PFC's and Specialists are coming back decorated like career NCO's. 2) Specialist Busbee is actually a SSG in the Special Forces.

when are people gonna get it

These are horrible statistics. I suffer from PTSD (once called shell shock, thousand yard stare) after serving in Vietnam, SeriDesert Storm ans Somalia. Our ssoldiers today serve so many tours to combat zones that PTSD and dpression is rampant. . Our military will need help for generations to come.

I belong to a motorcycle group that is part of the VFW. We travel to Ft. Hood each year four times a year to welcome returning servicemen and womenhome from the wars. We each spend the day with one serviceman and their families and give them information on where they can seek help and we stress they talk about their expieriene. I had problems for I had problems for 12 years after Vietnam and once I began talking about it it helped me immesely.

You don't have a friggin clue what you are talking about. Back away from the keyboard and take your lithium.

Your comment is baseless, irresponsible and just plain wrong. Not even the most fiscally conservative have pushed for cuts to veterans programs. Care to take that comment back?

Dingle - look up Paul Ryan looking to end VA healthcare benefits for disabled veterans – 1.3 million veterans who are Priority 7 & 8 - This was being pushed Feb-july of 2011.

just look it up.

Anywhere

People are sheeple and don't ever question the offical reports and just believe their gov is the best gov in the world.

My gov is better than you gov. so we will kill you...

Dingle .. Obama has planed cuts of over 1 trillion dollars to the military ... so he can waste it womewhere else.

Care to take that comment back?

I do not. If you had done even a cursory Web search, you would have found the Repugnican proposals I mentioned.

Whether Al is right or wrong, the fact remains that it was the Bush/Cheney administration, that put these soldiers into 2 wars of choice. Only a fool would believe that Afghanistan or Iraq was a threat to the US.

The soldiers committing the suicides are a part of the Bush/Cheney legacy, as were the soldiers killed in battle and the victims of 9/11. 9/11 never could have been successfully carried out, without the complicity of certain menbers of our government, who protected them while they were in this country. The hi jackers had been found out long before 9/11, through wiretaps, and warnings from France, Germany and Russia. All warnings were ignored and not even acknowledged. 9/11 was the excuse the neocons needed to start the 2 wars.

The war in Iraq was for a new 42" oil pipeline from Kirkuk through Jordan to the Israeli port of Haifa and the war in Afghanistan was for the TAPI gas pipeline.

http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/19725/iraq-to-haifa-oil-pipeline-could-spur-economic-rebirth/

www.rense.com/general15/game.htm

Texas your right and your wrong. The cuts come from the military side, not the health and welfare benifits, that fox news. look up the budget from 08 and what Bush spent to fund both wars.He didnt fund them or have a way to fund them. Now look at what Oboma has spent. simple math and easy to find. Oboma also started a fund years back. I want to say 6 billion a year goes to finding homeless vets and picking them back up. He started the tax breaks for companies who hire a vet. stop that fox news crap and look it up for your self. 15 minutes and you will blow that hannity knucklehead out of the water. He lies like Bush jr. The truth is out there find it for yourself

Wrong party to ascribe that too pal. Dems want to cut Military spending not Rep's. Jeesh, read a paper will you.

Sorry, but Al is just a democtatic troll.

I just love the smell of republican denial in the morning. the neglect of our troops is well documented. Even Fox news reported on it once. (in the wee hours of the morning so that not too many people would see).

Al, unfortunately their emotional centers cannot bare what is simply the reality. Don't waste time trying to teach the unteachable.

Instead of committing suicides, they should start with shooting off banksters and politicians who sent them into the war in the first place.

Texas A&I

Dingle .. Obama has planed cuts of over 1 trillion dollars to the military ... so he can waste it womewhere else.

Hey genius, it's not Obama. The cut to the military is the sequestration. That was instituted as a compromise because the Teabaggers wouldn't increase the debt ceiling without it...so thank a teabagger.

By the way, the cuts were identified BY the military. The only way they will happen is if the House of Representatives vote to let them happen. The House of Representatives is controlled by the Republican Party...so thank a Republican.

HUH??? A-HOLE! Repubs. are not in control you should know that, HATER!!

@ george. Isn't it funny the things you hear in the wee hours that somehow change in the morning. I belive that way they can say. well we reported on that. We are telling you the news. Glad you see it also.

Greg-1043135

HUH??? A-HOLE! Repubs. are not in control you should know that, HATER!!

You are a moron. Who was re-elected as the Speaker of the House this morning. And why are Republicans obsessed with a-holes? Is it more of the hypocritical gay-bashing thing?

Texas A&I

Dingle .. Obama has planed cuts of over 1 trillion dollars to the military ... so he can waste it somewhere else

Hopefully thats not case because the Muslim People are not going to back down and they do have to stick together for the most part.... I think the war there will just escalate to a much bigger war.... Though its really up in the air at the moment but given all the bad things happening in the middle east i'm pretty sure its not going to end well at all....

Looks to me that Al Kayda's comment is right on the money.

Looking at all these posts, I can only come to one conclusion. This country (USA), is full of a$$holes. Most of these guys have have spent more time in a combat zone than anyone from "The Greatest Generation" did in WWII. They deserve any and everything we can give them that helps them come down from the nightmare that WE put them through.

After serving in WW2 my father thought the VA would take care of him when he got sick man was he wrong! He never bought insurance because he thought he would never need it! When his kidneys failed he needed dialysis and the VA had no dialysis machines and they would not pay for it, because it was not being done in a VA hospital so he had to spend his savings on it, and died penniless! All he got out of the VA was 250 dollars for his head stone! He died in 1989, some hell of a thanks for serving in North Africa and Anzio Beach for his country!

You really think Main Stream Media Cares?

They are the one's pushing for war... They are the enemy Globalist media

I was thinking the same thing about the uniform. Really bad
reporting on their part.

I was down in Tampa at an Air Force Base. Working for the
Security Police Sec. An Airman came home after being over seas for almost a year; he was married with two kids. He was in his early 20's. He told a lot of people, he wasn't feeling right in the head. The
Commander had him arm up and get ready to be posted. He got his weapon walked
back home and in front of his wife, he took his life.

I wasn't the person he reported to. But I heard what
happened 10 minutes after. I was back home and not stationed in Tampa. But when
you take care of your troops they know who they can trust. Looks like no one
cared about this Airman. I feel sorry for his wife and kids. Because I know
this unit didn't do anything to help her. If someone in the military commits
suicide the family loses everything, all benefits.

The Commander and No One below him on his staff was
charged with a crime. Because it is their fault he received a weapon, and
caused harm to himself.

They all should have been relieved of their position, and
held responsible for the actions of this Airman.

The real story should be what the Commanders are doing to stop this problem. If someone on their watch commits suicide, they should beheld responsible. I am tired of someone of Rank holding a position they didn'tearn. Just because they have the rank doesn't mean they could be the best
person for the JOB. I was told if I got Promoted they wouldn't have anyone to
train the new guys coming into my unit. So I played the game for 24 years. I
should have retired as an E-8. I do have a Degree but was told I was too old to
get my commission to become an officer. Found out later this was all a lie, but
I couldn't prove anything what I was told.

The Good Old Boy's Club in still good and kicking.

Read it again. The article is following a SPC. Barrett. The photo is of another soldiers family named Busbee, who also commited suicide.

Stupidest post I've read in a long time......

Charged with a crime???? The last time I checked, dangerous items are in abundant supply when your in the military. it is after all.....the military!

Look closer at the uniform it has SF tabs on both sleeves there should only be one on the left sleeve and it looks like crossed rifles not crossed arrows on the collar. Something smells rotten in Denmark. No SF soldier put that uniform together. It has a 10th group flash on the green beret but one site says he was in 2/12 INF. who knows.

We may never know notice how they turned the uniform so the rank isn't showing any more! Also there is no DUI above the unit awards! I guess fact's isn't important in journalism anymore!

baylor- there are leadership tabs under his crests they should not be there not even if he was an e6 only the team sgt or above

The military is usually advertised as a way to get ahead in civilian life too. It amounts to blatant lying.

yup- see my comment below

Let me let you on a little dirty secret public the Army IS AGRESSIVLEY tackling this issue, we are sending Soldiers to civilian led education and train-the-trainer programs on suicide and resiliency. It is a very hot topic in my state, BDE and SQDN. We tell the Troopers to always keep an out of on their brothers and sisters to their left and right. Comanders and leaders have open door policies and ARMY ONE SOURCE will pay for counseling for a Soldier REGARDLESS whether they have insurance or not. I personaly am required to train on these subjects every quarter and must meet a training goal annualy btw we train to standard and not TIME! Our Soldiers can call me anytime they need to and I will even to a "health and welfare" visit to make sure they are GTG....you won't even do that for your neighbor.

Let me give you another dirty secret you don't want to hear.....our young Soldier DO NOT HAVE have the MENTAL FORTITUDE to deal with some of lifes harder lessons. My parents taught me when you come up to a wall you feel is impassible they told me to "put my head down" and go through it. They let me create my own pain and problems then gently tried to steer me through it.....and yes at times they let me FAIL so the lesson would stick. They were always there to pick me up and dust me off though! I hate to say it but society and parents have failed our young Soldiers for christ sake we have to teach them how to be resilient in life because they were NEVER taught...that is right is not the Government's fault or the Army......it's yours!

I love the Army and wish I would have enlisted sooner....I do not enjoy wiping your kids' butts for them but it comes with the job and I would not trade them or it for the world. Nothing makes me happier than when a young Soldier comes up and and tells me "thank you". It is time for America to stop pointing the "finger" at everyone else and start pointing it at themselves.

Thank you so much! What you said there was Great! We NEED MORE PEOPLE LIKE YOU TAKING CARE OF OUR SOLDIERS!! I will say this it is parents fault for not teaching there kids the right way But it is also up to the Adult Kid to make There Choices Also!! Thank You Again for Helping Our Soldiers Again They Deserve Allot More,So Do All Our Veterans Past and Present!

What it is saying is that military psychiatry is to psychiatry what military justice is to justice and what military music is to music.

Just ask Sgt. Bower

Doped him up so much he went insane.

We are nothing more than serf's to the Globalist...

Want to see HELL? Go to any VA Hospital waiting area and observe the "Burnt Out Hulks" of former Soldiers, Marines, Sailors and Airmen waiting for their prescriptions, medical appointments and mental health services. Then observe the low down patronizing attitudes of (non-veteran) staff towards these vets. It's disgusting!

Yes, it can be hard to work with the old vets, who have been whipped around from pillar to post. So the VA staff treat these women and men like garbage, no matter what the VA Posters say.

The solution to how and why we treat our Vets like trash is very basic and difficult to solve. We as Americans have to change our built-in cultural bias against military veterans. Yes, Americans really hate the veteran. We want the military when we feel threatened and then we want our soldiers to go away and never be heard from again when the danger passes, see the movie "Best Years of Our Lives". This was true after every war Americans have fought in.

Veterans have always been considered parasites wastefully leaching off the public purse: People after the Civil War wanted unemployed Veterans jailed because they weren't working, Post Spanish-American War Veterans lingered in Death Camps on Long Island, dying in unheated tents from diseases and wounds, WW! vets formed the American Legion-VFW=Jewish War Veterans - Bonus Marchers to protect themselves from anti-veteran prejudice.

But the worst period for the Vet was Viet Nam. Soldiers coming back from the War were spit on, jeered, laughed at by their peers and last to be hired-first to be fired. I can still remember these words a non veteran manager at Bank of American said in a staff meeting, "I don't want that "Vet Candidate because we don't hire SGT Snorkle".

Changing the american cultural atittude towards us and the care we receive will require an honest commitment to our veterans begining with the VA. The VA needs to be decentralized from a chain of Megalithic medical factories to a series of Local clinics/Administrative centers/Pharmacies* staffed by veterans and other people, who give a damn. Closer partnership between the VA Medical Staff and private Physicians to stop duplication of services and implementation of private/public Mental Health Services that even active duty soldiers could trust.

Lastly, We need a National Service Law for all Americans. A National Service Law so air tight even a Mitt Romney couldn't DODGE !!!!

.

Dynamite!! Very Very Well Put!! I Commend You for Putting Your Comments Down,Scpecially ABOUT OUR VIETNAM VETS THAT CAME HOME and WERE TREATED LIKE CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!

We have never taken countries and tried to expand or even taken the spoils of war (oil ) You people who see it that way have been poisoned by the educrats and propaganda media. Were the wars needed that is debateable..this Empire thing is STUPID and So are YOU for Believing it !!!

For thousands of years Afghanistan is where NATIONS GO TO DIE.

sheepled---

I am happy to read someone know's there History.....You right...

John - you do realize that you say this, while we have "occupied terrorities" all around the world, one quite close - called Puerto Rico...right?

furthermore, invading - then occupying - a nation, and essentially "shaping" it's govt, is an effort to "take the spoils of war" in ways you simply arent willing to admit and acknowledge.

You realize we have quite the global economy, and having a puppet govt willing to give contracts to american contractors on work they otherwise would never get, without our having invaded, occupy and create their govt - is essentially "taking the spoils of war".

You'll note, we have manufacturing all over southeast asia in abundance, in a lot of countries we "liberated" from communism. But of course, thats not what you see as "taking the spoils of war"...

no John, we arent marching off with chests full of gold coins...it doesnt work like that anymore. wake up.

Just wanted to also add, the entire reason we are in afghanistan isnt 9/11, Osama Bin Laden, rooting out terrorists or any of that nonsense.

It's all those precious minerals and metals in the afghan mountains.

if you dont think our govt isnt acting on behalf of american businesses, and the rich people who own them - and thereby own our govt - you're on absolutely delusional.

we send our children and our tax dollars to die in foreign lands (and some of them return home to die) and so that Joe Shmoh Business owner can get rich off of shady contracts, executed by a shady govt WE put in place in afghanistan.

and so far, the afghani's are wise and aware, and they'll take and take and take our money...but have zero intentions of ever "giving back *wink *wink" in the form of contracts.

afghanistan should do as iraq did, offer up the work we hoped to get to china and other "friendly" nations to afghanistan, rubbing it in our faces...

but yay, we are defeating terrorism by creating more terrorists! go us?

Our soldiers are protecting our ways of life - the cars we drive, the electronics we consume, the cheap walmart-ish products.

John Poland. Really? You are going to call out Pippo for being stupid? Give us a good solid "rational" argument as to why we went into Iraq? We are waiting?

John Poland-2090350

..this Empire thing is STUPID and So are YOU for Believing it !!!

Not so much John. Ever read "Project for a New American Century"? It's the Neoconservative world dominance manifesto. But you go on believing those John Wayne movies, I mean just because Joseph McCarthy, the John Birch Society and Americans for Prosperity were funded by the Koch Family doesn't mean there's a conspiracy afoot...right?

John ..instead of sitting here on this board why don't you grab your t..Rusty musket and go kill a few for your cause. Those of us who have been there know the errors of your ways!

"For those that have fought for it...FREEDOM...has a flavor the protected shall never know"

Ted, actually the picture is of a Staff Sergeant's uniform. Probably a typo by MSNBC.

I am a combat vetern and just recently got out of the military. I was a Noncommissioned Officer and during my tenure I was forced to chapter soldiers for bull@!$%# reasons. I keep in contact with some of these soldiers and try to help them as much as I can but even for me with an honorable discharge, civilian life is no walk in the park. Employment is hard to get and using your benifits is even worse. Your comment explains exactly what is going on in our military.

How can you still be "the greatest nation on earth" if the country you are talking about is ". . . run by a bunch of creeps with no honor."? Does our superior technology and gadgets make up for complete lack of morals, ethics, and honor starting at the very top with our 4-star West Point grad and his West Point grad mistress biographer trying to add "and all the sex you can have" to "Duty. Honor. Country."? Must be nice that West Point is supplying lovers to all their cadet graduates.

If I was a soldier in the field contemplating suicide I would turn my weapon on my immediate officer first, before using it on myself. Until such time as our government, business leaders, corporations, and military start to actually get with the need to create a world the rest of us can live in and find meaning in then the breakdown in socially coerced order will only get worse. And it should.

I think the Blamee has hit the nail squarely on the head...

Until such time as our government, business leaders, corporations, and military start to actually get with the need to create a world the rest of us can live in and find meaning in then the breakdown in socially coerced order will only get worse. And it should.

The military is at war. America is a the shopping mall. If the war is worth fighting we should reinstate the Selective Service Draft and share the pain and responsibility with ALL in this Country.

Our current, thru no fault of their own, is nothing but a group physically, emotionally and mentally damaged mercenaries. As a Vietnam Vet I feel truly sorry for these young men and women who are getting screwed to the wall while others of their age group are getting a pass. I feel especially sorry for our soldiers and marines who are not 'in the rear with the gear".

WAR ALWAYS CLAIMS THE LIVES OF THE BRIGHTEST AND THE BEST OF ANY GENERATION

Only the best of your generations get to serve and die the rest of you sit in your arm chair and cheer lead exported death and destruction not only to our PERCEIVED ENEMIES but it is our neighbors, husbands, wives that pay the

ULTIMATE PRICE FOR FREEDOM to kill someone else for our freedom is the worst kind of hell a person can live with.

Oh horsecrap...Americans are at the mall. They don't give two sh!ts what these wars cost so long as they don't get their noses bloody. Don't count on the sheep rising up...not going to happen.

no- it is a dress uniform- bet ya dollar to donuts during his troubles the military demoted him so if he ever saw disability benefits they are lowered. His dress uniform was never switched out and poor mom we cannot expect to know the difference- unfortunately the reporter probably was provided the presetn "proper" rank- I say let the poor guy at least be buried in the rank he earned

You said it, Cee. According to http://youngadults.about.com/od/healthandsafety/qt/suicide.htm, on average, 1088 college students commit suicide every year.

We are doing nothing to address this national health crisis. Come to think of it, we are doing nothing to address ANY health crisis. Instead of spending money dropping bombs on other countries and teaching young people to murder, perhaps we ought to spend our money on our fellow citizens' health, both physical and mental.

Ahh, but Yank, that would be "socialism", or a "handout", or whatever the propaganda de jour is today...

Repubs or Dems in congress, it doesnt matter - (they're covered for $250 +K a year, so they REALLY know what it's like to not be able to afford this, right?). I'm blessed, I or my family dont have this problem, but as Sandy Hook, or Aroura show, it COULD become my problem any time, anywhere.

It will, unfortunately, take an indivudual w/ MH problems killing a senator's son, or family, before they REALLY do something.

My friend told me the other day that he tried to committ suicide, not more than a week before. He spent a couple tours in Iraq and Afganastan, was wounded by IED. He saw his friends die in his arms. He thought he was doing right for his country. Now with the current muslim supporting president, giving arms to our enemies, promoting immoral acts, bringing the enemy right to our own backyard and treason against our own soldiers, there is no real direction.

Our soldiers are being called some of the same names we faced in the Vietnam era.... History repeats itself when we forgot where, why, how and when.

Anyone who wants to condemn the VA, for not caring are full of crap... THEY do care and the majority feel their actions aren't enough to help and I know they take it personally... I am alive, because of the VA, and I thank God for their efforts and caring...

David K. Sumrell

Now with the current muslim supporting president, giving arms to our enemies, promoting immoral acts, bringing the enemy right to our own backyard and treason against our own soldiers, there is no real direction.

Are you talking about the Muslim supporting president that killed Osama bin Laden? Oh, that Muslim supporting president. As to a President arming our enemies? Ronald Reagan sold stingers and hawk surface to air missiles to the Iranians after Congress had banded any kind of weapons sales or technology transfer...so who are the traitors? Who outed a CIA Operative to pay her back for exposing his Yellow Cake uranium lies? Consider actual history when spouting pure propaganda.

Ol Doc:Here's the deal...this country needs to OWN it's wars. The American people need skin in the game. This crap of sending less than 1% of the population to war and everyone else goes to the mall and forgets about it is unbelievable.

I agree, and if we had a draft America would have ended this war years ago. It is amazing how people act when it's their butt on the line. We know in WW2 that more then 180 days of combat was the most any combat troop could endure mentally. The number may have been lower, I forget, but you get the picture, 5 tours is just too much for those in the meat grinder.

And don't bother arguing with the idiots that say Obama is a muslin lover (though love for all mankind is a good trait last I heard). Of course, to people like him anyone not a Christian is a terrorist. People like David are wrapped to tight and have there head so far up their butt they will never see the light.

Doc and Raymond,

You'll must have voted for your president obama. The article is about suicide and why? I too love my fellow man, whether I know his religous beliefs or not. Terrorist are a different breed, and though you may support obama's way, I do NOT.

The news this morning says an Egyptian Magazine says we have 6 muslim brotherhoods working on obama's administration, at the whitehouse and they have an agenda.

This article is not about the draft, yeah send more boots on the ground, so we can send more bodies home. We need to get out of everyone elses business; take care of our own country, and our people.

As for you John, you don't know me, nor do you know my belief's. I am a Christian, and Combat Veteran with an Honorable Discharge. I do not need your opinion on whether or not I will see the light. I live in the light and I love and respect other's without condemnation, until proven otherwise. If you think I consider anyone who is not Christian, a terrorist...

Who do you think you are? Go back to your mirror and keep worshipping yourself...I would tell you what you can kiss, but I don't need to lower my standards for you...IF you think what is happenining in our own country isn't affecting the moral, and overall attitude of our fighting men and women, then go back to sleep...

The news this morning says an Egyptian Magazine says we have 6 muslim brotherhoods working on obama's administration, at the whitehouse and they have an agenda.

What news david? FOX News?

Whats as sad is the Chaplains can't help when not allowed to give spiritual guidance... My number is 757-729-9740 for ANYONE considering the thought, may call me 24/7. Pass it out, I am a Vietnam Vet, and I am standing by...

Heres a site you may want to see and an article to read.

It started off as just a facebook page about soldiers personal experiences in Basic and comments said by Drill Instructors. Then there was a few instances when a brother couldnt find the help they needed and turned to this site for help. Its about brothers helping brothers out doesnt matter what branch your in. Weather you are still enlisted or prior people came together and pulled all recources together to help out.

www.Facebook.com/ASMDSS

and the article is

Pass it on. It may help someone who needs it when you cant find the help you need.

Sorry here is the article name does not let me save the link

how one facebook page saved a soldiers life

I agree, stop sending money to these countries everytime they stub the freaking toe!

Right on! Focus on our needs as a nation instead of nation building so that the Haliburtons and other war mongering companies are defunct and out of business.

And our President is cutting the military by approximately 550,000 soldiers which means more "Stop Loses" that unfortunately will equate to more suicides. An absolute travesty.

Yes, in early 1900's US Marines were dying in Banana Wars now they are dying in the Oil Wars. Same criminals using US foreign policy to enrich themselves.

Amen- let our young people rebuild America- roads, bridges, rail system, water & waste systems, schools, medical care - I am not an isolationist, but we have gone too far

@Ted-USA

As we learned, the Romans in the height of their glory days did what you're saying, but that would be a NO-NO for our Congress. Here the private companies at local states have contract with State governments for infrastructure.

The United States has every single symptom that brought the fall of the Roman empire. We might not have slavery exactly the way they did, but we are definitely a slave to the extremely wealthy as well as the almighty dollar.

Troops are not needed, but wanted for the good of the military industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us about. These blood suckers want to suck the life out of our sons and daughters for financial advantage! They need to go along with our congress people who are bought by them!

I don't like Obama at all but it's just not him that's the problem. It's people getting all worked up over their side of a 2 party system as if they were sports teams, no matter how bad their side may be. Clinton sucked, Bush sucked, and Obama sucks. I remember the day I came home from school on 9/11, my dad (a former combat vet marine) saying "this is a war your generation is going to be fighting" and here we are still sending out troops to the middle east when everyone knows we have no reason to be there. Our country needs a whole regime change if we have a chance at sticking around another 100 years.

Gofigureit

You're so full of crap it's scary. Under Obama there was a mass VA hiring (Veteran Service Representatives and Decision Rating Officers) and well as a huge increase in Mental Health staff. Under Obama the requirement for proof of specific stressors related to PTSD have been relaxed and three new diseases added to the list of Agent Orange affects. The homeless veteran population is also decreasing.

Under Bush they didn't even provide additional VA funding until his last year in office (6 years after the wars started).

Ol doc, obviously you have never been to or dealt with the VA the past four years. Ya, the old canteens are full of wandering administrators out for a walk from their brand new office buildings. Did you know that this administration had the VA put together a special task panel to specificaly go out and lower veterans disability ratings? Any idea how long it takes to see a doc at the VA? Any idea what the wait time is (in years) for a decision these days? Any idea of how many of the new suicide prevention programs the VA was ordered to start go either completely unfunded, or understaffed, of barely staffed with professionals pulled from their other jobs? Better get some real facts there other than "Obama increased funding...". Maybe enlist, do your time, come back, and see whats really up. Have a great day.

Gofigureit

Why yes Gofigureit...actually I have dealt with the VA. I have been a veteran for over 40 years and my job is VA oversight and and casework. But I'm glad I have a real professional like yourself to inform me.

Walk through the streets and valleys of Iraq and Afghanistan as I have over seven deployments as an Air Force JTAC. Kill those trying to kill you, and hold your friends/family members as they bleed to death or writhe in pain from shrapnel, ammunition or burn wounds. Sleep so lightly that a leaf falling to the floor makes you jump to your feet ready to defend yourself by any means. Endure 72+ hours of fierce battles with people who enjoy trying to kill you and have no problem risking death to do so. What do you know of these experiences?

Try any one of those things. Then rethink your statement. Ya, I volunteered and I love my job. But it sure as hell isn't easy. And there's no way to predict the things I've endured. To belittle these people taking their lives is so disrespectful I can't understand. So shut the hell up.

Rob people that have never been through what we have will never be able to understand. I never even talk about it unless its with another vet. As far as the VA goes it is frustrating having to wait so long for an appointment but the doctors and nurses and lab technicians are some of the nices and caring people I have ever dealt with. The VA has mental health programs for ptsd and other thigns as well which has helped many of vets but unfortunatly not all vets are able to get help before its to late.

Not anything new, pressure within ranks is very difficult to handle, from officers, and fellow soldiers in your unit. @!$%# here's an example only 17yrs young, enlisting knowing your draft # is up after graduation. Decided while in my Senior year of High Sch. from East LA. better for myself breaking away from the Barrio Vida, (Neighborhood life). this would help out my great Mother so much. Thinking everyone around me, I knew or grew up with that time were either dying drug OD's, gang killings, or just doing sometime or life. Pressure in the Barrio is harder, luckily your not living this life but no one you should criticize especially poor eating when possible, harassed by police, racial discrimination. Mother a young widow woman, strong, self determined in raising her boy's well, she did so much for her sons, provided the best she could, worked effortlessly so we may attend Parochial school which paid the tuition. Mother, accomplished this by her choice, she intended we be raised with respect and good morals. Struggling to feed 6 boys not easy and not much income, moving every month time rent due, all over East LA. Oh yeah, just being accepted by the Barrio gang was a high prestige acceptance, a decision must be chosen immediately. Military Service was worst especially late 60s -70s Served 2 tours in Vietnam, our NATION against us, fellow members of your unit, if you were wounded others ridiculed, saying your one stupid knucklehead, dummy not watching your assets, letting Charlie get the best of situation, taking free ride home, and more @!$%# was said. Personally known fact from own experiences, hit w/shrapnel from incoming on Fire-base prior operations into Cambodia. Unaware of being hit, until fellow Team member yelled Bernie your hit! felt the warm blood back of head. Immediately moved to LZ Med. Aid Stat. Doc then asks me what Unit assigned to? explained to list my name and wound for a Purple Heart. Said hell no, @!$%# don't want prior service members of unit telling me BS. These troopers accomplished 2-3 tours or more returning back to Nam. Unknown reasons why would they return, no one did ask or care, these great warriors unable adjusting to immediate changes of their lives. Reasons known maybe revenge, inner self sacrifice, ridicule, hatred, mental, physical, and escaping turmoil with inner voices reaching them. Yet this Great Nation harassed us serving in Vietnam, not old enough to buy a beer when awaiting a flight home, vote, disrespected everywhere, named so many BS names, no support, from movie industry to schools, yes it happened. These returning warriors wiser, experienced and knowledgeable of Charlie's skills and habits. Ridiculed by fellow more experienced troopers getting hit no matter the situation friendly fire purposely, enemy, incoming, pride kicks in first watch out for each other, especially your back not trust no one. Then begins fear of life it self, alcohol, drugs, self abuse or even physical, this is happening all around us on rear base or out in the bush. So much @!$%# going on, and piling on thick your just barely turned 18yrs of age but yes now a man facing a dim future what should I do you ask? Suicide and ignore others laughter, go back to the calles de mi barrio (my Home streets) pressure on our ass. La Vida Loca comensa's otra veis (The crazy life begins once again) hard difficult journey begins. Listen Gente (people) How do I know this, part of my life still struggling on my own w/out breaking loose or deciding choosing a noose is my answer? my Father found that way out through inconsiderate to or family. This shall not be a choice to select no selfishness in me, my family need not suffer has I did. Medication helps, other Veterans listening and understanding our pain, appreciating our suffering within, group or one on one extremely helpful. Shall best I conclude, so much to write not fair or right this night bull dog this site. Remember fellow WARRIORS there is hope, help out there for all Veterans anyone contemplating seeking easy way out there's no such trail. Try shouting out, hear me loud, proud not one to hide, only inner pride or seclusion fearing illusions.