Adults who believe in angels....

Check!

Yup, good ole' America. We may lack in many things, but adult men and women who believe in fairytales? Well, lets just say we kick the rest of the world's ass. Just ignore the tiny fact that we're also the most violent 1st world society on the planet ... that will be our little secret. Shhhh, the angles might hear.....

Chad, angels and fairies are two completely different things, lol. You're free to believe whatever you want, but if you think that the four dimensions we can perceive (including time, of course) constitutes the totality of the universe, you must not be familiar with string theory.

rkaralius

I "believe" that the universe is so much more mysterious, awe-inspiring, and magical than anything our tiny notions of "god(s)" and "angels" could ever even fathom. Our definitions and descriptions are so incredibly small, pathetic, and culturally-dependent compared to the grandeur of reality, that it's quite comical, actually.

So, Chad, when someone like Senator Kirk actually gets a glimpse of some of that grand reality that lies beyond our normal perception, how would you go about defining it? Or do you just mock the attempt?

A "glimpse"?

A glimpse at what?

Near death experiences (NDE's) are pretty well understood scientific phenomenon. These experiences vary by society and usually conform to each individual's pre-conceived notion of cultural tradition and religious background. Science can actually tell us quite a lot about what's happening here at the level of the brain. In fact, these experiences don't have much to do with "death" at all. There are multiple studies that have been conducted on military pilots who experience identical phenomenon when their bodies are exposed to extreme G-forces and a loss of blood flow to the brain induces flashes of light, white tunnels ... hell, there are even documented cases of pilots seeing deceased relatives when their brains are depleted of the oxygen-rich blood needed for cognitive functionality.

Again, the subconscious brain, the universe, our attempts to superimpose our conscious experience over subjective interpretation ... reality is so much more stranger than fiction. I find it a much more beautiful undertaking to try and understand these phenomenons at the level of the brain than to lie to ourselves about the nature of reality and our position within that reality.

Chad - I am a hard-core atheist and I agree with everything you are saying, but it is not nice to attack someone else's religion or spiritual beliefs. If it works for them and makes them more moral, let them believe in any god or gods they want. When someone starts wielding their religion like a weapon and trying to convert me, I will speak up, but as long as they leave me alone and allow me to raise my own children to believe what I think is the truth, then I let them be. Be secure enough in your beliefs to not have to force them on others.

A glimpse at what? The glorious mystery you both celebrate and deny in the same breath. Fortunately, the beauty of it is that it doesn't matter whether you believe or not. The truth really doesn't care one way or the other. By the way, the fact that elements of a phenomenon can be induced artificially is not proof that it isn't real. The "scientific explanation" has been successfully rebutted on several occasions, and accounts from military pilots who have experienced both flight phenomena AND near-death experiences have clearly stated that the two bear very little in common, and while there are cultural variations in NDE's, there are also many basic similarities. The nature of reality and our position within that reality, as you put it, are beyond our complete understanding, so really your total denial of anything that can't be proven scientifically is as much a lie as any other firmly-held belief. Can you really state with conviction that higher dimensions (you know, those dimensions predicted by current scientific theory) have no bearing on human existence or experience? If they really do exist, they're all around us, not "out there" somewhere. What exactly goes on in them that our brains can't comprehend or perceive? Personally, I'm willing to entertain the possibility that this physical reality is not all there is.

ECF2222 - I am a hardcore atheist as well but I can't share your accomodationist views. The problem with Christians is that they want to legislate their harmful anti-science, anti-woman, anti-gay, and anti-humanist views, which are utterly invalid in the first place.

LOL, Brian, I'm a pro-science, pro-woman, pro-gay, pro-humanist non-Christian who also happens to have an open mind about spiritual things, brought on by decades of soul-searching, reading and personal experience. Don't be so presumptuous.

I LOVE
the fact
that he was cheered.

It was sincere, compassionate and heartwarming.

Too bad the Republicans didn't chastise their GOP "mouths" who indicated that Hillary Clinton was faking her illness.

.
.

Kindness and decency is comforting to witness by WE THE PEOPLE.

Let's hope that Senator Kirk's return is a sign that we need more of that.

Chad - I am a hard-core atheist

I don't even know what that means. I'm a variety of things ... my "atheism" has very little to do with describing who I am, or what we are discussing here. I'm merely making an observation about scientific phenomenon we can actually study and understand at the level of the brain, versus mythological angels being superimposed over scientific rationality.

I mean, what year is this?

Should we just let people think lighting is shot through Zeus' palms and mental illness is caused by demonic possession? Can we seriously not have an actual adult conversation through the purview of science? If you find offense with what I've been saying, that's your problem. It has nothing to do with me, or "atheism" for that matter.

When someone starts wielding their religion like a weapon

You do realize this guy is a politician, right? Who funds scientific research? Here's a thought. If religious huckstery is such a "non-issue", why is science constantly under attack in this country? Why are some states actively trying to ban the teaching of evolution in our schools? Why do we have active senators on the floors of our government buildings exclaiming that climate change is not a worry because Jesus will more than likely be returning in our lifetimes anyway?

You're quite delusional if you think these "beliefs" don't have consequences my friend. They do, and not just for the believer.

The glorious mystery you both celebrate and deny in the same breath.

Wait? Where's the mystery? It seems he's actually trying to define and quantify the experience to me ... there is no "mystery" ... when you die, there's angels. Right?

The nature of reality and our position within that reality, as you put it, are beyond our complete understanding

{Shakes head}

Yes ... so why are you trying to define it? Have you not been reading what I've been saying? Am I having this conversation with myself?

I'm not "defining" anything ... you are ... he is.

while there are cultural variations in NDE's, there are also many basic similarities.

Yes, except for the fact if you're a Hindu, your experience is uniquely Hindu and if you're Muslim, your experience is uniquely Muslim, and if you're Christian, your experience is uniquely Christian .... etc, etc .... yawn, This is getting boring. If there was even a shred of credibility to NDE's proving the existence of an afterlife, you would at least expect a shred of consistency. So what's the common denominator here? Our minds interpretation of the experience or the experience itself? Is this a question that even needs asking?

so really your total denial of anything that can't be proven scientifically is as much a lie as any other firmly-held belief.

Wow, that's not a straw man argument or anything.

My goodness Chad, you completely misunderstood my comment from beginning to end. And what you are talking about IS atheism. Call it science if you want, but you are spending a good deal of time disproving the existence of god. If you don't think that's atheism I think you, and not I, are "delusional." The entirety of my point is that I won't shove my beliefs down anyone's throats if others give me the same courtesy. You can bet I'll get into a very spirited argument with anyone who tries to change my children's textbooks to include creationism, or uses their religion to de-fund science or force "pro-life values" on a secular country. I never said these beliefs did not have consequences, especially in politics. My point was that it is not very effective to attack believers in an online forum where you are never going to convert anyone. I have many friends of many faiths and I avoid discussing religion with any of them, as long as they don't pipe up first. If someone tells me they will pray for me, I thank them and move on. As I said in my first comment, I wholeheartedly agree with all of your points. I love science and what it has taught us! But shoving beliefs on anyone, whatever they are, is rude. I don't want Christians doing it to me, so I don't do it to them.

Call it science if you want, but you are spending a good deal of time disproving the existence of god.

Nothing I've written has anything to do with "disproving" god. Science isn't in the business of proving or disproving our gods.

Um, yeah, actually it is.

Don't bother to answer again. It's pretty silly to argue when we basically agree. I have work to do. Have a nice day.

ECF

"Proving" this man's individual experience as merely a natural state of consciousness would have no baring whatsoever on the notion of whether or not "god actually exists" or not.

Very sweet.

Now shut up, sit down, and get to work you bums.

How was it proven that his experience was merely a natural state of consciousness? Ah, the scientists say so...LOL.

Welcome back, Senator Kirk!

May God continue to bless you and your family!

@Rational Randy

I guess there's no difference between "Proving" and "Proved" in your lexicon, huh?

There is a tense involved there ;)

RI Mom, it is nice to see some civility but I have to ask what was your reaction while during the campaign there was more than one comment from democrats that Romney should be assassinated or just this morning some said they hope Speaker Boehner has a heart attack. These comment seem to have been met with enthusiasm. I also deplored similar comments that were directed at Obama! Were you as quick to chastise the left as well. I personally think its disgusting when comments like this are made no matter who says them. Its certainly okay to disagree if you dont like a particular politician or candidate but vile comments like this should never be made by anyone. Everyone should think how they would feel if these type of comments were directed at one of their family members.

Chad; my bad; I read your comment too fast. So you agree there's an equal chance that he may or may not have seen angels. And there's an equal chance that God may or not exist. I say live and let live. If one wants to believe in Ismahiler or Verihidan, who am I to say they are wrong? It just seems that the belief in God has been around a very long time and will be not going elsewhere anytime soon, unlike Ismahiler, Verihidan or Kazoo.

Congratulations on your road to recovery, Mark. You are one of a very few among your colleagues that have a good reason to be moving so damn slow.

Are you sure you wanted to come back to this dog and pony show?

1.21

Who said those horrible things you've referenced?
A Main Street Pundit?
A Poitician
Who are they?
Because that was WRONG WRONG WRONG and I hope that they were reprimanded.

Sadly, John Bolton, Sean Hannity, Richard Grenell,
Charles Krauthammer,
ohn Bolton,
Allen West ,
Jim Treacher,
Monica Crowley, and others

made a big display of their insensitive mean-ness... by not retracting their snide comments.

RI MOM,

People here on the blogs made those comments.

Equally sad is Chris Mathews, Rachel Maddow, Ed Shultz, and many others as well who also did not retract any of their comments and Ed Shultz most of all who used the most vile, filthy language that was only equaled by Bill Mayer. The language used by those two should have offended you and every woman in the country. Im not throwing stones at you RI MOM. I'm just pointing out neither side can point fingers at each other. I think we are basically on the same page. I think we both want to see civility even though Im sure we have different political views and I respect that.

1.25

I LOVE IT that you ALSO watch MSNBC for news.... shows you are weighing in for all views.

And I also see you watch Fox News! Cudos, LOL. Have a great day and Happy New Year RI. Salute

Because of the narcissistic personality of this politician, the State of Illinois has only had one vote in the US Senate for over a year.

Former Rep. Giffords was at least smart enough to withdraw from the race for her seat. She would likely have been reelected in a land slide. She realized that, due to her injuries, she will be unable to properly represent the people of Arizona.

I would hazard to guess that in the next two years Sen. Kirk will still continue to miss votes and not be available to meet with his constituents.

Its too bad, the voters deserve better.

I wish him well, for his health, but he should have stepped down before the last election.

@ Chad. Atheism is a belief in no God. See in belief there's faith. You have as much faith in atheism as a christian in there beliefs. So atheism must be a faith. That makes atheism a religion. Whatever...

To quote that great philosopher Pete Townsend, They call me the seeker, I've been searching low and high. I won't get to get what I'm after, till the day I die.

Joe

That's profoundly inaccurate and illogical.

How doe's one "believe" in no god ... i.e. "nothing"?

As the standard cliches go, calling atheism a religion is like:

- Calling "off" a TV channel

- Calling "abstinence" a sexual position

- Calling "bald" a hair color

I no more disbelieve the Christian god then I do the god of Poseidon ... or Thor ... or Zeus....

There are myriads of gods I don't believe in simply because there is no evidence suggesting such a god exists. Does that make me an "atheist" because I don't believe in Thor? You don't believe in Thor ... how come you're not an atheist?

Atheists have plenty of "beliefs," we just use evidence to inform those beliefs (not faith.) You're not going to understand that because there's simply no evidence you can provide someone to make them understand they should value evidence ... when they don't value evidence.

See how that works?

I reckon that if I ever see an angel, a ghost, a demon, a god, et cetera, I will change my mind.

I figure that whatever you believe is your business and none of mine. I actually think that superstition is an evolutionary advantage that I lack.

Chad,

A fellow agnostic atheist here.

One thing I wanted to say, I am also an anti-fundamentalist who disapproves of religion in all forms, but I think it's immature and uncalled for to mock people for seeking the comfort of their faith in times of hardship. One can be constructively critical without being arrogant and brash. (I'm not accusing you, particularly, of being arrogant and harsh, but those are adjectives that, unfortunately, very accurately describe many of our fellow atheists and the way they treat theists.)

I also want to factcheck you: the United States is not the most violent society in the developed world. I assume that you base this assertion on the fact that we have the highest murder rate of all developed nations; the problem is that, in order for this to be valid, your definition of violence must be extremely narrow. You see, there is such a thing as non-murderous violence. Regardless of what weight you assign to different acts of violence in exacting how violent a society is as a whole, things like rape, armed robbery, and battery are acts of violence – and, most importantly, they occur much, much more often than murder. This is the reason why violent-crime rates are measured in instances per thousand people, while murder rates are measured in instances per hundred-thousand people. But anyway, to be more germane, suffice it to say that, for whatever reason, the United States actually has one of the lowest violent-crime rates in the developed world. At about 4.6 violent crimes per 1,000 people per year as of 2010, the U.S. is much less violent than countries like the UK (20.3), Austria (16.8), Sweden (11.2), Belgium (10.1), the Netherlands (6.8), and even Canada (9.35). Understand that violent-crime rates encompass both murders and other violent crimes, so you can derive a much more complete, comprehensive picture of how violent a country really is from it than from murder rates alone.

Now, don't take this as a tacit endorsement of the NRA/gun-advocate position that more guns make our society safe. I'm for sensible gun control and I do think we have a murder problem in this country (even though it's been receding for the past couple of decades). But to say that the U.S. is the most violent country in the developed world is inaccurate. In fact, it's likely one of the least violent developed countries in the world.

And yes, you're absolutely correct in pointing out that atheism does not require belief. The word atheist only means "without a god." Most atheists in the world are agnostic (without-knowledge) atheists, which means they don't know of a deity, therefore they don't believe in one. This position does not involve faith of any kind. Now, there are strong or gnostic atheists, who positively assert that there exists no god. A case might be made as to why these people have some sort of belief in their system, but even then, to call them faithful is a false equivalence.

Andres,

I'm willing to take your numbers on "faith" (pun intended), because I'm not a statistician, but I will admit that they do not sound accurate to me at all. The idea that the U.S. is statistically "more" violent than Canada seems like a gross exaggeration ... but again, I'm completely open to the evidence if you can provide sources to suggest otherwise.

However, here was/is my larger point, so the first one might not really matter. In my original post, I was more making an observation regarding the religiosity of our nation in relation to the rate of significant violence. The United States is VASTLY more religious than the rest of the Westernized world. While this is trending down, America is still much more "faithful" than the rest of the industrialized world.

Furthermore, you can even extrapolate that statistic further within the microcosm of our country itself. Rates of violent crime ... teenage pregnancy ... even the consumption of porn ... all of these specific categories have much higher rates in areas that run directly through the southern portion of the Bible Belt.

As far as your first point, I simply disagree. I think the notion of "being offended" is 1.) a pseudo-offense that people simply need to get over ... especially if we consider ourselves a nation respectful of the free range of ideas. And 2.) As I already mentioned, beliefs have consequences, and not just for the believers. Ideas and beliefs DO NOT warrant specific treatment or conditions of respect by the mere fact that they are "beliefs" ... they just don't.

Cheered on by colleagues, senator who suffered stroke takes 45 monumental steps

What kind of purpose is this news crap??? What a bunch of weenies we have become.

Well played, Chad – I wouldn't have expected you to just take those numbers face value without any sort of proof whatsoever.

(dailymail.co.uk) /news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

It strikes me as odd that every time I bring these numbers up, it's always Europeans and my fellow liberal Americans (I hope I'm not offending you in assuming you're a liberal) that have the hardest time believing countries like Canada, the Netherlands, and even Luxembourg are more violent than the U.S.

It's worth noting that every country measures violent crimes differently, but the bulk of violent crimes is measured very similarly by all countries. For example, as the article notes, the UK counts affrays as violent crimes even if there isn't a person injured, but affrays that do not result in personal injury are not generally reported anyway, so such a distinction will not result in overblown crime rates. Overall, this still presents a far more accurate picture of how violent a country is. Let's not forget that Canada has big cities the same way the U.S. does and is a slightly less rich country – it isn't surprising, then, that there are bad areas with high crime rates in that country, too.

As for religion, yes, I've also realized that the most religious fringe of the U.S. tends to be the one that loves guns, death penalty, wars, social disparity, wealth accumulation, apathy toward the poor and the sick, and many other phenomena most commonly associated with societies that do not claim some sort of omnipotent, omniscient moral guide that tells them to love each other or else. It's quite unfortunate, really.

And as to the last part of your reply, well, you have to understand that not all believers are the same. Not all believers want to impose their religion upon our government. I just don't think the best to get them –sensible, sincere, truly kind religious people– to understand that religion is an unnecessary part of their life is to be so caustic to them about it.

First and foremost is congrads to the Senator. Hang in there.

Now as a fiscal conservative I am a bit troubled that he has been absent from his position for so long and he doesn't let his seat go to someone else able to fill the positions obligations to the people. Just like Jackson should have done early on during his absence.

Now for those of you who are debating off topic the existence of god I would like to ask both sides these simple questions. First to all the non believers...If we were created from nothing, then where did it all come from? And to all the believers.... If God created everything then what created God?

Roger that

And plays a MEAN fiddle...............strings his bow with horsehair from the Four Men of the Apocalypse

Naw... he is stringing his bow with witch's hair and the strings in his fiddle are made with sinner's sinews.

Actually I think the devil has a benign Candian accent and looks and speaks like Mr. Rogers. After all, he is the father of liars, so even his appearance is categorically deceptive.

I have my doubts that spirits with New "Yoarwkh" accents were from Heaven. He may wish to revaluate his religious beliefs.

@ comment # 2.4:

Translation: "'Can anything good come out of' New York City--especially the outer boroughs--most notably, Brooklyn?"

@comment # 2.2:

("Or THE SOUTH, for that matter?")

Yeah, congrats on your dillusionary health issues, now get back to work (screwing the American people)!

(Aren't those the words that the Koch Brothers would say to their employees that come back from sick time off?)

Just Sayin........

Behind.....you must be an awfully unhappy person. If he thinks he saw angels - and I personally believe him - then let him think that. Believe me, your remarks will not change his mind.

I am one liberal who is happy he is doing well. We are all americans and this should have nothing to do with his politics anymore then Hilliarys health problems should be viewed thru some cynical consevatives eyes.

Welcome back. BUT, if you STILL do not support the Affordable Care Act; but, realize SOMETHING must be done so that ordinary Americans have the same shot you did with your same condition, what exactly is YOUR solution?!

lol, there is a chance!!

Sounds like they are running the place!

You gotta earn them wings, this is our ting.. fahgetaboutit

Has to be the Hasidim folks from Brooklyn.

Oy vey! Another Gentile trying to get in and he's not from Brooklyn!

I just spit my coffee out...

THX ;-)

That's like when Samuel Rosenberg went to heaven and St. Peter offered to show him around. As he passed several areas, he saw souls of many different religions. But as he approached one particular walled in area, St. Peter asked him to be silent. After several passes through this area, Sam asked St. Peter why he had to be silent. St. Peter replied, This is where the Catholics are and they think they are the only ones up here.

LOL

That can go for a lot of fundamentalist religions too!

rkaralius. I am sure that it went something like this. You are a Republican, you really are no good, but We will give you one more chance to do good, but if you Remain in the Republican Party, WE WILL get you next time and send you straight to Hell.

Hey how you doin'

Well, they updated the article since my question - so they said what they usually say in this situation. It would have been easy for him to go with them, since he had the choice, but the fact that he chose to stay in spite of the physical challenges he took on by doing so is a testament to his commitment to this life and what he can still accomplish. I wish him well. FWIW, I'm a pretty liberal democrat.

Angels: "Get back to work. Most of the rest of Congress is using less than half their brain."

"I felt like there were three angels in the room. And, interestingly, they had New York accents,

The stroke he had last January affected the left side of his body but left his mental functions intact. He had three brain surgeries

Left his mental functions intact??? Seeing... NY Angels! It's time for your first step to be retirement Capt.Kirk

He's a professional politician... How does one mesure their mental function?

rkaralius: I just finished reading a book called "Proof of Heaven" and the author stated that human brains do not have the capacity to understand Heaven or God. Trying to explain the Universe would be like trying to teach Russian to a chimp..........And in another book I read "Dying to be Me" the author stated that mere words could not describe the experience. Both authors insisted that God is in Heaven and everything is going exactly as planned........ (I believe God is so Awesome our souls are in for a happy surprise)

Aren't the Angels in LA?

Amen brother.

Nope, adversity strengthens, assistance weakens, I've been there. Many years ago, I had a stroke that paralyzed my left side, so what I'm telling you is from experience. He needs to move every muscle that he can. I kept trying to play my mandolin, discovered that I could move my left leg so long as I was watching it, I would fall if I took my eye off. It was not that I couldn't move things, the problem is there is no feedback, you cannot tell where something is, without seeing it.

I was lucky, it didn't affect my thinking, never was very smart. You've got to keep moving; otherwise, your muscles atrophy. I never missed a day off work, persistence is the ticket. After six months, people couldn't tell.

Nope, recovery from a stroke, is up to the victim, you've got to push and push and push. No one else can do it for you.

Sure.

What's good for me, is well... Good for me.

If you just tried a little harder you could be a Senator too.

What a great photo of Sen. Kirk and his co-workers that cheered him on his journey up the steps today!

I love that Joe Biden (we LOVE Joe, you know...) assisted, but isn't trying to steal the spotlight. He's thoughtful like that.

It might take a few more months, or even years, but I think Sen. Kirk will GET the concept of Obamacare as he rehabs with people of all stripes.

Good way to start the first day!

wascigarman

Of course he doesnt Favor Obama Care, He wouldnt want us Minions to have the same care that he had.

If you think Obamacare is comparable to what Congresspeople have, I've got some land I want to sell you. If you want to get a better idea of what government-sponsored health care looks like, visit a prison, a VA hospital or an Indian reservation.

Denver Bill. Of course Obama Care is not even close to what he has, but my point IS, that he doesnt even want us to have anything that Obama care does provide. Get It?

wascigarman.....Sen. Kirk availed himself to an education (something that anyone in this country can do), GOT A JOB (aka worked) and has medical insurance. This is something that everyone in this country should strive for and many do, but many do not choose to work, but would much rather that you and I provide that insurance for them. I'm all for helping those that cannot help themselves, but the rest....sorry.

wascigarman

Denver Bill. Of course Obama Care is not even close to what he has, but my point IS, that he doesnt even want us to have anything that Obama care does provide. Get It?

I completely understand your point. My point IS that I don't want us to have what Obamacare provides. Get it?

Recyclecongress. I really believe that this clown was Faking it for the last year. The Republicans are accusing Hilary of faking her Illness, she must have caught it from this Republican clown.

It seems as if some here have absolutely NO idea as to what ObamaCares is. It's not VA care for the whole country. Gheez.

If the Health Care Int. had passed the way it should have, Single payer, we all would have medical care like the Prince and Princess' of the Senate and the House.

It may happen, just not in my lifetime. If you do what you always do... You get what you always get.

When Obamacare is fully rolled out, we will have the same choices that Congress and other government workers have. The playing field will be leveled considerably when this happens.

It seems ingrained in Republicans that "others" are taking/milking the system/getting the freebies--whatever you want to call it. Of course there are some bad people that just take advantage, but the percentage is very low as I recall.

I don't know anyone who's used "the system" for anything other then a leg up during hard times. Do you, or are you just being TOLD that there are? This creates hate and rivalry and brings out the five year old (gimme)in many people.

Ey, you tryin to get up in here?? Fahgetaboutit

Was it Jerry Sandusky?

No, I'm pretty sure it wasn't. Even older.

Welcome back! I hope you had a full recovery.

Thanks, I did. Though its something I will never forget. Damn if I ever see that old man I will freak.

First, how very racist of you. Second, Chicagoland does not cover the entire state. Third, you're an @$$.

I'm sure his book from Gullible Christian Press will come out soon.

Good point.

Well, he hasn't missed anything!

Whynot. Thank God that he hasnt worked in a year. I would be willing to pay all Republicans to stay home and let the Adults run the Country.

Sen. Kirk was a stroke before he had one, just like his brother GOP cultists.

You do not know that.

This is the definitive example of the complete and total absence of compassion that defines the 21st century sneaky weasels who call themselves "Republicans" . . .

One might expect that if someone simply had no concept of what happens when an unexpected major illness occurs at a time when a person has no health care coverage, then having an unexpected major illness should map to an epiphany which includes significant compassion that goes beyond feelings and moves into taking action, but this is not the way it works in the Republican universe, and it in some respects it is a combination of fear and meanness, where (a) the fear aspect is that if the system is changed even a tiny bit, then it will cease to provide for Republicans and (b) the meanness aspect is that helping other people never maps to winning . . .

Yet another clue to this twisted view of realty is found in Senator Kirk's statement that "he still doesn't support Obamacare" . . .

When you first read that Senator Kirk "still doesn't support Obamacare", it might be easy to dismiss it as being the typical Republican perspective, but if you take a few moments to connect the dots and facts, the realities are (a) that the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (a.k.a., "Obamacare") was passed by the 111th Congress and signed into law by President Obama in 2010; (b) every major provision of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act has been upheld by the U. S. Supreme Court when tested; and (c) the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act is the law of the land . . .

From this perspective, when Senator Kirk states that "he still doesn't support Obamacare", what he actually is saying is that he does not support all the laws of the United States of America, apparently choosing instead to support only those laws that he likes, which is quite consistent with the defining characteristic of the sneaky weasels who call themselves "Republicans", which specifically is being vastly deluded and consistently guided by delusions . . .

Senator Kirk might not "support Obamacare", but you can bet he is ready, willing, and able to get himself moved to the front of the line on federally subsidized mobility scooter day and so forth and so on . . .

The general attitude of "I've got mine, so screw you!" is part of what made the 112th Congress (which ends at midnight Thursday January 3, 2013) the most despised Congress in the history of our great nation, and based on the number of Representatives and Senators who were re-elected, the 113th Congress might be worse, where one of the clues is the sneaky weaseling idea to split federal disaster funding for hurricane Sandy victims into $9 billion (approved at the last minute mostly due to being embarrassed into it) with the lick and promise to approve the subsequent $51 billion on January 15, 2013 . . .

In the grand scheme of everything, this nonsense started when otherwise sensible people listened to President George W. Bush make statements like, "I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully", and somehow ignored common sense by not immediately declaring him to be intellectually retarded . . .

And all the while this is going on, the Red Chinese are building a transcontinental high-speed rail system and advanced robotic manufacturing complexes; are actively developing manned space exploration systems; and generally are doing all the types of massive Keynesian economic projects that we need to be doing if there is any hope for our great nation in the 21st century, really . . .

Really! :-o

God works in mysterious, stupid, pointless, opaque, medieval ways. You can't question His utter incompetence. In fact, you can't even be logical around His mentally challenged followers.

to brian-.....so says another angry, bitter, lonely and pathetic atheist.....you....

If angels were really helping people how about a well-placed heart attack or brain aneurysm for some of these mass shooters we have to deal with?

You don't hear about the ones that get the heart attacks or aneurysms that stop the would-be shooters, because those shooters don't make it to their targets.

The rest all appear to be in comas

It will be hard. Remember, and I mean no disrespect for Rep. Giffords but full contempt for Congress on this, they actually told an almost brain dead person how to vote, she did and that was that.....our leaders.

Chad, with all due respect...which means none really..what you believe does not really impact what is. You have formed an opinion based on.....well, your opinon. Are there angels? I would say "yes". Do they have wings and halos..maybe, maybe not. I know I have a guardian angel that I have maybe never seen but definitely feel the presence of. Maybe you should find an quiet place away from you computer, iphone and the noise of everyday and get in touch with yours.

Joe - does everybody have a guardian angel who protects them from harm? If so, when somebody gets hit by a bus, is it due to negligence on behalf of the guardian angel? If it's all part of "god's plan", then can you really have free will to make choices which are presumed to alter the plan?

Sorry, I know Christians hate getting valid logical questions.

Bagdadjoe, I felt the presence of my guardian angel one evening in 1984, when he (or she, I'm not sure) told me emphatically to put my seatbelt on, approximately one-half mile before I was in a head-on collision...

happens all the time...most people just don't listen.

rkaralius - many faithful Christians still die in car accidents. Were their guardian angels taking a smoke break at the time?

Brian, no. They won't do everything for you. I learned at a very early age not to step in front of buses. And, not knowing God's plan as apparently you do, I can't answer that. Perhaps if people listened to their angels they would have better results.

Stay out of cars. Problem solved.

Joe, thanks for the reply. I've tried to listen to angels but I sadly lack the overheated imagination of a gullible "true believer". I have chosen instead to listen to logic, reason, and empiricism. This allows me to appreciate the real world, value my one and only short life, and also have meaningful conversations with the magic invisible pink unicorns that speak to me regularly. What, you don't hear the unicorns? You're just not listening since your heart is impure.

Brian, being spiritual and being religious are actually two very different things. You don't have to be a Christian or even believe in a god to believe in a higher level of existence, that souls are self-directed, in which case being hit by a bus may be part of the plan, or it could just be an accident. :-)

Puhleeese. He will not want to get more care from the Insurance Companies for us Minions. The Insurance Companies are paying his Outside Salary. You dont really think that these scumbags fight tooth and nail to win there elections for there Paltry Salary, do you?

rkaralius - six of one, half dozen of the other. Belief in magical "souls" and guardian angels and a "higher level of existence" doesn't somehow gain credence simply because it's your own view and not part of established Christian branding. Pseudoscience is pseudoscience. Every aspect of our consciousness can be directly correlated to physical neural activity in the brain. You are your brain. You live in the physical world. There is no evidence of a "soul" infused into the brain.

We have a lot to learn about the brain, but it appears that the brain is the source of all consciousness. The notion of a "soul" is an artifact of a time when nobody knew what a neuron is in the first place

I am not saying that neuroscience has "disproven" the hypothesis of an eternal soul. What I'm saying is that there is absolutely zero reason to confirm the hypothesis. The only reason to believe in a soul is because you hope it's true. Hope is not logic. Enjoy your short life on this planet and take care of people and animals. :)

It isn't pseudoscience, Brian - it has nothing to do with science. Science is the process of building models to help us understand our physical universe, and is therefore limited to that perceptual reality. Being open to the possibility of a reality beyond our perception is necessarily outside of science, and must be based on subjective experience. I actually used to be as much of an "atheist" - although I use that term loosely, because it really isn't descriptive of anything - as you, but my own experiences and those of people I know personally and trust completely have brought about my change in thinking. I don't claim to have any "knowledge" or proof of independent consciousness, or soul - but after examining the issue from every angle possible, with as much objectivity as possible, it looks to me as a definite possibility. As I stated before, though, it really doesn't matter what anyone believes, at least from the standpoint of the truth. It just goes on being. :-) And yes, I do take care of people and animals, because if there is any consistency at all behind the experiences people seem to have of the other side, it IS that love is the only really important thing in the universe. That IS the one unifying theme.

Satan, also, was created by God. God also gave him, just like you, the ability and will to rebel. So you believe in the creation and not The Creator? Wow...we saw you cumming about 6 thousand years ago. Just did not know your name until now. If you only knew how predictable you are it would really scare you. Do you have a Master's in Bible? You will need it now. And then again, it did Satan no good when he went toe to toe with Jesus.

BTW Satan is an angel.

Bob - if your god gave people free will, then he must not have a plan. He's also apparently not so all-powerful after all if this Satan guy is running around so freely with his pitchfork.

Actually I do have a Masters in Bible. To further build my resume, I then did my Ph.D. in equine excrement.

BobW- you need to re-read your book of fairy tales, in no passage does "Satan" or any angel, go toe to toe with your Jeebus. That is made up x-tian bs. As for Lucifer- well looks like he won that bet against your petty little god in the Book of Job- or else there wouldn't be christianity.

JXC, yes he did. Right at the end of Omen 3.

JXC here we go

Matthew 4

The Temptation of Jesus

4Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the
wilderness to be tempted by the devil. ²He fasted for forty
days and forty nights, and afterwards he was famished. ³The
tempter came and said to him, ‘If you are the Son of God, command these stones
to become loaves of bread.’ ⁴But he answered, ‘It is
written,
“One does not live by bread alone,
but by every word
that comes from the mouth of God.” ’

5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and placed
him on the pinnacle of the temple, ⁶saying to him, ‘If you
are the Son of God, throw yourself down; for it is written,
“He will
command his angels concerning you”,
and “On their hands they will bear you
up,
so that you will not dash your foot against a stone.” ’
⁷Jesus said to him,
‘Again it is written, “Do not put the Lord your God to the test.” ’

8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and
showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendour; ⁹and he said to him, ‘All these I will give you, if you will fall
down and worship me.’ ¹⁰Jesus said to him, ‘Away with you,
Satan! for it is written,
“Worship the Lord your God,
and
serve only him.” ’
¹¹Then the devil left him, and suddenly angels came and waited on
him.

Matt 16

21 From that time on, Jesus began to show his disciples
that he must go to Jerusalem and undergo great suffering at the hands of the
elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be
raised. ²²And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him,
saying, ‘God forbid it, Lord! This must never happen to you.’ ²³But he turned and said to Peter, ‘Get behind me, Satan! You are
a stumbling-block to me; for you are setting your mind not on divine things but
on human things.’

There are others.

brian

If you hold such lofty prizes then demonstrate what you have learned. All I see is dead end sarcasms that lead no where. Except perhaps back on your own tail. A Biblical Scholar would know that reference. Where is it? And BTW Satan speaks in ALL languages, dialects and accents.

JXC Not just Jesus BTW

Jude 1

9 But when the archangel Michael contended with the devil and disputed about the
body of Moses, he did not dare to bring a condemnation of slander against him,
but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Michael won by the way

Also Revelation 12

7 And war broke out in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon. The dragon and his angels fought back, ⁸but they were defeated, and there was no longer any place for them in heaven. ⁹The great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the Devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.

And if you read Job...It was not about win loose. It was about Job's faith which was rewarded generously in the end. Only the evil mind and heart would see just the win/loose. So who has yours?

BobW - I always find it endlessly amusing when Christians quote the Bible to make it appear true. "The Bible's true, because it says it's true!" Talk about circular reasoning.

Hey, I have this book about unicorn anatomy. It says unicorns are real and their horns are made of keratin. They are ruminants with four stomach chambers. It says so in the book!

Again brian you are not following the conversation...you are cumming from nowhere and going nowhere. You are very lost...and confused. And VERY predictable as I said.

Bob, that is time #2 you said "cumming". Its Coming. "Cumming" is something else all together, and looking at your posts probably not what you intend to say.

TFNJ

You are correct. That was a typo and spell check of course did not get it-now that is a statement about our society that spell check sees that as totally appropriate. I am duly embarrassed about that. Thanks for bringing that up-really.

I've noticed the spell check on here not working correctly the last few days. I know I spelled something wrong before, but just clicked the spell check for correction, and it said I had no mis-spellings. I clicked it a couple more times amd it finally worked.

Hey, Brian, I have a Masters in male bovine excrement. We should get together some time and shoot the excrement.

First hand true. In 2002 I had gotten a little long in the tooth so I traded in my M16 for a Bible, went to the Chaplain's Academy and off to Iraq in 2003. About the third week out, from my fox hole in the rear, I notice a young PFC in his foxhole, not in the rear, pinned down by panic and drawing fire unable to react. Like the fool I am I jumped up, ran out to the kid and jumped in. I grabbed him in a bear hug and yelled, "Son you need to pick up that weapon and start firring. I do not have one and if you don't we are both dead". He did and we both didn't. He got a medal and I got a reprimand. He was also the new face at service that Sunday morning. Foxholes are VERY holy places.

Thanks, Sally!

Joe - I've also noticed regional dialects in unicorn neighing. The long-horned Western unicorns have a notably deeper whinny than Eastern shorter-horned unicorns. I know this because I have opened my heart to them.

bagdajoe for you

Act 2

⁴All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to
speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave them ability.

5 Now there were devout Jews from every nation under
heaven living in Jerusalem. ⁶And at this sound the crowd
gathered and was bewildered, because each one heard them speaking in the native
language of each. ⁷Amazed and astonished, they asked, ‘Are
not all these who are speaking Galileans? ⁸And how is it
that we hear, each of us, in our own native language? ⁹Parthians, Medes, Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea
and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, ¹⁰Phrygia and Pamphylia,
Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both
Jews and proselytes, ¹¹Cretans and Arabs—in our own
languages we hear them speaking about God’s deeds of power.’

For some reason all my thoughts are in the voice of Habib from the Raceway gas station down the street.

BobW, one of these days Brian is gonna be in a tight jam, and his unicorn god won't be able to save him; I just wonder if Brian will call out to the real God for help, and if so will Brian get the help. Yes, I'm a Christian also.

Now then as for the health care bill that is slowly becoming law; I just wonder if Cantor, or McConnel or any of those so adamantly opposed to it would change their mind if they were to go through the same thing as Sen. Kirk. These fat-cat congressmen get the best care there is, but yet would begrudge the same for their constituents in the name of money.

Ed

It is not the health care that they-I oppose. It is the other stuff. obamacare needs to be repealed and gone over page by page and re-worked. I am blessed in a one way that I have had the time to read it. My summation of it is; Totalitarianism. Our health care program should not be used to control us as a society and that is EXACTLY what obamacare does and was intended to do. obama and the lie that he cares about us is not, and will not become my god, even if I have to get sick and die.

Im thinking Brian does something ungodly with those Unicorns!

That is how he is able to hear the different versions of Neighs and Whinnies

(Just randomely joining in Brian, I don't mean it)

Nah, it was just Reps. King and Rangel and Sen. Schumer.