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Subscribe to RSSA New York man arrested after he gave the finger to a police officer can sue police for malicious prosecution, a federal appeals court ruled Thursday, overturning a lower-court decision that deemed the officer's response reasonable.
In its decision, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said that giving someone the finger is an "ancient gesture of insult" and "is not the basis for a reasonable suspicion of a traffic violation or impending criminal activity."
The incident took place in May 2006, court documents say, when John Swartz and his wife, Judy Mayton-Swartz, were driving through the upstate village of St. Johnsville, N.Y., to the home of Judy’s son.
Swartz was in the passenger seat when he noticed a local officer, Richard Insogna, in a police car using a radar device. Expressing his displeasure, Swartz reached "his right arm outside the passenger side window and extending his middle finger over the car’s roof," according to court documents.
The couple continued their drive. They were not speeding or committing other traffic violations, but upon reaching their destination and getting out of the car, they saw an approaching police car with its lights flashing.
Ordering them to get back into the vehicle, Insogna told the couple this was a traffic stop and requested their documents. Swartz told his wife not to show the officer anything, prompting Insogna to say, "Shut your mouth, your ass is in enough trouble." Then, after checking the woman's license and registration, Insogna called for backup, according to court documents. Three other officers soon appeared.
After being told he and his wife were free to go, Swartz tried to speak with Insogna, but the other officers stepped in front of him.
Swartz was arrested after he either muttered or shouted, depending on whose account one reads, that he felt "like an ass."
At the station, he was told he had been arrested for disorderly conduct, a charge that was later dismissed.
Swartz's lawyer, Elmer Robert Keach III, praised the court's decision, The Associated Press reported.
"It reaffirms that just because you insult a police officer [it] doesn't give that police officer the right to detain you or arrest you and take away your liberty," Keach told The AP, calling the decision an "important victory for civil rights."
A lower-court in Albany had previously dismissed the couple's claim because police insisted they had stopped the couple out of concern for the woman's safety.
In his deposition, Insogna said Swartz's gesture made him "concerned for the female driver, if there was a domestic dispute.”
But the appeals court deemed his conclusion unreasonable. "Indeed, such a gesture alone cannot establish probable cause to believe a disorderly conduct violation has occurred," court documents read.
The court added, however, that the merits of Swartz's lawsuit, which seeks unspecified damages, still must be litigated at a separate trial.
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I did this once, and was stopped and cited for careless driving. I went to court, and made the mistake of not asking for a jury trial. Remember - judges and cops are big brother, and will always side with each other. I lost. It cost me $168. I called the cop an a**hole after we left the courtroom - nothing he could do about that.
You must be real proud of yourself. (rolling eyes)
Being needlessly disrespectful to an officer and calling him an a**hole in public when you know you are safe. I know who the real a**hole is.
Bostontater, 35,000 people a year die needlessly in car accidents because police officers run revenue speed traps instead of doing their jobs. Traffic cops aren't heroes - they're arrogant bullies who get off on pushing others around, and while they are doing that, people die. I have no respect for them, and they deserve far more than my middle finger.
TO: bostontater who wrote:
We regular, average, everyday people deserve respect too, and part of that means not being harassed by officers who tend to abuse their authority and/or believe that people in general are a**holes.
My nephew is a Police Lieutenant, and a darn good one! But even HE does NOT abuse his authority, and he's a nice man who realizes that people are just people.
Apparently the court felt that the officers displayed an abuse of authority, and I agree with the court. There is no to stalk or harass a civilian, and trump up charges against that person in order to make a harassing "arrest" and thereby tarnish that person's record among other hurtful things, simply because an officer felt somewhat "annoyed".
Typical town clown cop; thinks the badge allows him to interpret free speech to suit himself and has an inflated sense of self-importance. When the police wonder why they get little respect from average citizens, look to incidents like this for the answer.
And no, I'm not a cop-hater, but have no sympathy for bullies with a badge. This is right up there with the woman who was arrested in her own yard for videoing the cops harrassing a teen in a traffic stop. The cops lost that case too...
i suggest all you keyboard rambo types posting on here that the next time you see a cop, especially really late at night, to flip them off and yell obscenities at them. i know most of you are former marines and current mma fighters so you dont have anything to worry about. have at them boys.
Some are real heros but most have an attitude. Cops should remember they work for us.
It's not nice to curse GODs with badges and guns....(sarcasm OFF)
Actually, in the "public" is the place you are sometimes safe, not all the time.
Have you ever seen a cop off duty, take an ass whipping? I have, a number of times, momentarily anyway, two on two, didn't know they were cops, the other guys were getting the better of them, but, by GOD, they started yelling WE are cops, and out comes the badges, and 6 cruisers, loaded with cops. Thank God (the real GOD) we had eleven witnesses, and it took all eleven of us to get those two idiots fired.
Here's another scene. I'm Retired Army Infantry, numerous combat tours starting with Vietnam in 70, so yea, I'm rough around the edges, and I'm a little explosive, in the Military, and out. I have no love for cops, MP's, SP's or civilian-cops. Anyhow, couple of times I invited both Military and civilian-cops to drop badges and guns, lets fight like men, you know, come from behind that shield, well, they arrested me, handcuffed me behind my back, and about five of them kicked my ass, that was some bad ass dudes......LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You sound a little jealous Unc, your nuts not that big?
Free speech is free speech. Regardless of whether or not the recipient likes what they hear/see.
Yes, the guy was a douche for flipping the bird to a cop who was just trying to do his job. But being a douche isn't grounds for arrest. Otherwise my former boss would have been arrested 10 times over! :-)
There is also no law on the books about cops or ANY citizen being above public ridicule. If cops don't like dealing with that kind of bias then they don't have thick enough skin for the job. He can pull them over and ask if there was a problem, but he cannot issue a citation or make an arrest.
Source?
No, Lolly, the cops AREN'T doing their jobs. That's why we flip them off. They run speed traps for revenue, when the real problem is careless driving. Running radar is fun, and an easy way to harass the motoring public, which is why arrogant cops do it. The guy was not a douche for flipping off a cop that wasn't doing his job. He was, and is, a hero.
What are you alluding to Uncle Henry? That a cop would do something bad if you insulted them when it's dark with few people around and low visibility? That you better be fit enough to fight for your life if you plan on insulting a cop? Are you suggesting that cops are no less likely to slam you on the ground for giving them the finger than a thug standing on the corner would? Does this mean cops should not be held to a higher standard than a hoodlum?
Years ago the state of Florida passed an "Outward Obscenity" law aimed at curbing the then-popular "sh*t happens" saying that was showing up on hats, t-shirts, etc. I got pulled over and issued a $50 fine because I had a bumper sticker which read:
IT'S BEEN SO LONG SINCE I'VE HAD SEX THAT I FORGET WHO GETS TIED UP"
I fought it in court and won, but it is a perfect example of how the law enforcement bullies want to limit the Constitutional guarantee of freedom of speech. Using a hand gesture to let a cop know you disapprove of their methods, even if it offends the low-self-esteem paramilitary jerk, does not constitute a public hazard and it is absolutely within our legal right to do so.
With all the problems in our country today that require police actions, sitting behind a billboard looking for a way to expand their retirement coffers, can hardly be viewed as serving and protecting. Even my 80-year-old mother, with her twisted arthritic middle finger, never fails to offer them the same one-finger salute. They need to get over believing that they are somehow special beings just because they have a badge.
True story:
When I lived in CT we always used to flash our lights at oncoming traffic to warn them of accidents, or speed traps that we just witnessed so the other drivers know to slow down if needed. A very considerate gesture if you ask me. Well one time I went passed a speed trap and started alerting oncoming traffic. Unfortunately one of the drivers that went passed me was a cop so, of course, he flipped a U-turn and pulled me over.
When he asked if there was something wrong (because that was his reason for pulling me over) I said "no"
Cop: Then why were you flashing your lights?
Me: To warn oncoming traffic.
Cop: Warn them of what?
Me: Something they should slow down for.
Cop: And what was that?
Me: I think you know you've got a cruiser back there for a speed trap.
Cop: And what makes you think it's okay to warn drivers about us? That is hindering our ability to do our job.
Me: Is there any law against flashing my lights?
Cop: No
Me: Do you have any proof that the other drivers understood what I meant, as opposed to warning them of an accident ahead, or yielding right-of-way to them? Did I do anything to specify WHAT KIND of hazard was ahead?
Cop: No
Me: Well then, it doesn't sound like there is much of a problem here. Is there anything I can do for you today officer?
That day I learned that cops can pull you over for anything they simply don't like. However they cannot arrest or cite you unless you have violated an actual law. Don't be irate, just calmly tell the truth and let them know you are aware that you have not broken any laws, and they've got nothing to hold you on.
Jerkoff.
I hate to tell you this, Lolly, but they can, and will, cite or arrest you for "interfering with a police officer performing his duties". And they can make it stick. I still try to warn others about speed traps, but there is risk.
That is often a response you see from people who think they are entitled to speed. Last I checked part of a traffic cop's job is to pull you over for speeding. I don't recall a law outlawing speed traps in order to achieve that. Regardless of what traffic violations you personally believe are worse than others, it doesn't change the fact that speeding is still against the law. If you go through a speed trap and you are not speeding or doing anything else that is noticeably illegal then you don't have anything to worry about.
I speed constantly. When I get a ticket, I fight it. But I am not so egotistical as to start blaming the officers that pull me over.
It is one thing to have a lead foot. But to think you should never get in trouble for it only makes you delusional.
Uncle Henry: I like that "keyboard rambo".
Good one!
That's funny because I just gave an example where that theory was completely shot. You seem like a guy who just likes making up his own rules. You ever heard the saying "just because you think it, doesn't make it true." ?
@!$%# the cops.
Don't be irate, just calmly tell the truth and let them know you are aware that you have not broken any laws, and they've got nothing to hold you on.
It's better just to not say anything at all. You have the fifth amendment right to silence. Anything you say to a cop could potentitally be used to convict you of a crime. You can ask the officer if you are free to go at anytime. If they do not say no then you can legally drive off.
Lolly, you are assuming that speed limits are set with safety in mind. They aren't. They are set to generate maximum revenue. And cops run speed traps for revenue. That's wrong, because they are supposed to enforce ALL traffic laws - not just speed limits. Last time I checked, over 70% of all tickets are for exceeding speed limits. That's just wrong, and 100 people a day die because of it. Call it civil disobedience, but I'll fight back any and every way I can.
And no, I don't speed, I rarely exceed the posted limit by more than 5 MPH, but I do that for gas mileage - not the law. And yes, I blame those 100 deaths a day on the cops that run speed traps. They could do something about the careless driving that kills, but they'd rather generate revenue, and boost their arrogant egos. They are to blame.
100% true. They don't even have to "not like" something. They can pull you over for ANY REASON THEY WANT. That may not be the law, but it sure is reality.
100% false, as this case clearly shows. Cops arrest people ALL THE TIME on charges that they absolutely know will not be upheld by the D.A. It's not about the validity of the charges or how the D.A. will respond. They know how their local D.A. is going to respond. It's all about the ARREST itself. One thing cops understand completely is how demeaning and degrading it is to get arrested.
Here you've got a cop just doing his job, and he gets demeaned by a passer-by for doing it. The cop follows him and decides to do a little "demeaning" of his own. He knows the charges won't stick and the guy will be released with all charges dropped. But the baseless arrest is all about getting the last laugh - "I'll teach you to demean me".
Since the cop knows there won't be any consequences for him, he makes the arrest. Then after the citizen is released, they all make jokes about how nervous, angry, upset, he was. This happens all the time and the only way it can be put in check is to do what the Swartz's are doing.... namely, paying attorneys out-of-pocket and refusing to back down in court. In the end, I hope they are able to recoup their attorney's fees.
Lolly, actually Michael's right. Then can and sometimes will arrest you. all they need to do is cite a statute, such as "interfering with a police officer." Arrests can be and are made based on the judgment of the arresting officer. It's up to the court to decide if the arrest was justified.
The bottom line is that they can bust you and ruin your day for just about anything. Sure, you'll get your day in court, and probably the charges will be dismissed, but in the meantime you might have spent a day or two in jail and paid a lawyer to handle your case.
In some cases the arresting officer might face some sort of disciplinary action, but that's not a given.
There are ~800,000 LEO's in the US. It's been reported that most officers will become aware of a felony commited by a fellow officer by their third year, and will take no action. That makes US cops the largest criminal organization in the world. F' the cops, every last one of you.
Michael and Severed Head...
Warning others of a speed trap is protected free speech. It's been proven time and time again in court.
Will cops pull you over and ticket you for it? Absolutely. But in most states, there are no laws that prevent "light flashing" because it's protected free speech. So the cop will write the ticket for something close, and everyone who goes to court to fight the charges eventually wins.
The cops know that the inconvenience of being pulled over, ticketed, and then having to go to Court is a deterrent enough. That's why they are willing to write a ticket for an offense that doesn't exist. For the cop, it's all about "if you inconvenience me, I will inconvenience you 10X back" Cops insist on the last laugh and they're very used to getting it.
They should be intelligent enough to multitask. Instead of sitting in one place they should be covering as much ground as possible, and be a constant presence in the neighborhood they're supposed to be protecting. I could accept if a cop were doing speed checks near schools when children are entering or leaving school because that's real public safety, but sitting half a day behind a billboard tagging an occasional speeder is just revenue generating.
I think some of you missed an important point. He wasn't arrested until he refused to show his papers. That is cause for disorderly conduct. Remember, this guy isn't an Illegal who doesn't have to show papers. Only Americans have to do that.
Oh, and by the way, he was wrong for flipping the bird at an Officer doing his job. Here are the Courts destroying appropriate Public behavior.
Just another example of police abusing their authority. Locally, a cop had set up a speed trap in a neighbourhood. A resident found out about it and posted a sign in his front yard with an arrow warning of the speed trap. The cop noticed the sign after he failed to stop many drivers. They cited the guy with three or four violations and went to court. The judge tossed them all because the cop could not prove that any people would have been speeding and which motorists they were if they hadn't been warned.
Obviously you didn't read the article. Instead you just decided to post some ridiculous "what if" type scenario. Nowhere in the article does it state where this was about:
1. Late at night.
2. Yelling obscenities.
3. Randomly "flipping off" an officer.
People like you enjoy escalating issues and then act surprised when physically confronted.
bostontater...will the real a-hole please stand...and who did?....YOU !!
Can I flip the bird at the president? Congress? Federal Reserve? They all deserve it too.
Here's an idea. Instead of the cop (usually two in different cars)
sitting inooops, securing one place, they actually do their jobs and PATROL more than one area?Guess that would require putting down the coffee and donuts to have two hands on the wheel as they DROVE around.
Crimmey, how much ground does a speed trap cover? They can still ticket for speeders, just do it as they're patrolling. They need to maximize their resources while Fire and Police departments are being reduce to save municipalities money.
i got pulled over once for going 26 in a 25. the sign was BEHIND a tree, the cop literally moved it to show me the sign. cost me a big fine and my insurance went up for 7 YEARS.
they had no problem with that. they just wanted to "pirate" some cash for their stupid little back woods inbred town.
when i was a kid i thought cops were kind of like knights, defend the weak and so on. i know better now, they are state sponsored privateers.
call a cop and you will get charged with reckless looking with intent to stare...
Poor Michael can't handle others telling him he was the one off-base and got called on the carpet for it, and is trying vainly to justify himself and weasel out of it. Can you spell "PUTZ?"
So glad he got off, as he should have!!! I am no cop hater, quite the contrary, but their I'm A God egos are so ridiculous! You work for us!!! I'm so tired of them being dicks to good citizens just because they have a badge!!
Haha Mr. Po-Po! You loooooose!!!!
@ Michael -
So you are saying that police pulling people over for exceeding the speed limit is not saving lives? If they are speeding, that is reckless driving, hence, speed traps SAVE lives. You are a moron, as all of your statements show. You say that you don't speed, but in the same sentence say that when you do you rarely exceed the posted limit by 5 miles per hour. Speeding is speeding. The 35,000 deaths per year that you cite - that's not a result of cops running speed traps - that's a result of people driving recklessly and causing the accidents. (Unless the offending officers were in the car causing the accident). What a tool!
So Leo, I sympathize that having 7 years of insurance rates is aweful, but you did say you were going 26 in a 25? So you were exceeding the speed limit? So you were, in fact, guilty?
I have seen alot of posts on here saying "i didn't break the law, I was only 5 mph over the speed limit." The key phrase here is LIMIT. So, you did break the law. Now, am I innocent? No, I do speed sometimes oround 5 mph over the limit, but when I get pulled over, I own up to it and pay my fine. I don't try to make myself out the victim or cry about how unfair it is. I was speeding. I pay the fine. For those saying that this is "civil disobedience", I suggest you read your copy of Civil Disobedience again. Part of that is serving the appropiate punishment for violating said law you are protesting, to show your convinction.
Small town cops make the least money. The Peter Principle is alive an well in law enforcement with small town pd's being the bottom rung on the ladder.
@ satanick
I would add that when approached by an Officer you just state that you won't be answering any of his questions without a lawyer present (whether or not you actually did anything wrong).
i know in my town we have some really messed up officers. they speed every where they go, don't obey traffic laws or signs, cut people off all the time, in most cases they are only going to lunch. heck two of them are drunk driving every weekend as well. i have seen them get pulled over by their brother officers just to be taken home to sleep it off. i really hate the double standard that is going on in our country about how officers of the law are treated in comparison to civilians.
speedometers fluctuate as do radar guns, simply changing your tires can affect your speedometer by much more than 1 mph. besides, did you miss the part where they had the speed limit sign behind a tree? you think that's ok? if so, you must also be a cop...
i WAS obviously trying to be a good driver. they knew i was from out of town and saw a chance to steal some money, plain and simple. they knew i could not come all the way back to fort gay west virginia to fight it in court, he said i could just mail them a check. even told me how much, right there on the scene, no judge or magistrate needed.
that is the definition of a pirate, stealing from passers by under threat. got to fill that ticket quota that they deny doing.
i guess they must have already found all the pot smokers and moved on to real criminals, like someone going 1 mile over the speed limit...
back in 1997 i had a game warden at a state owned lake give me a ticket because he had a new officer with him, his first day on the job. he said the new guy had to see a ticket written that day. i was the only one there, so i AM going to get a ticket for something... these were his EXACT WORDS. he illegally searched our car and found an unopened beer (one beer, by the way) under some random stuff in the trunk. that one was local, i went to court and it was tossed out, both officers were reprimanded by the magistrate, while i stood there smiling at them.
cops are supposed to serve and protect, not loot and pillage...
" I know who the real a**hole is." Yes, it's you, Bostontater.
@michael There are only two srares thar concider that a crime.
Leo- but if your speedometer is not accurate, while the radar guy is, is that the cops fault for you being over the speed limit, even if it is 1 MPH? As for the incident in 1997, that sounds like the legal system did its job. Some game wardens exceeded their authority and they were reprimanded for it. I am sorry you had to go through that, and those guys did a great disservice by blowing your trust in the police. Personally, I still stand by if you are wrong, you pay for it. However, Police that erode the public trust by abusing their authority, well I don't think they should be in that profession any more.
Well! It just wouldn't be a "Civil Rights" Post to a "Civil Rights Victory" Article without a big ol' FREE SPEECH HOWDY! necessarily "shouted out" from under, YET AGAIN, ANOTHER ARBITRARILY-PUNITIVELY SEIZED AND COLLAPSED THREAD! (Coinciding with the central Illegal Search and Seizure ISSUE of the article?)
Continued and ending HAPPY HOLIDAYS!!! on this final 12th Day of Christmas (12 Drummers-drumming???)
I seen this before in another state where the woman won in court. The judge actually held up one finger at a time at the prosecutor and said, "What does this mean" during each one.
It was funny because the judge said, there is no meaning when holding up a finger. It's only a suggestion that can be taken several different ways but, unless there's a legal dictionary, it means nothing!
Case closed and it made the front page. LOL
I love your comments Creek Dog.
Me too!
I don't think it's a good idea to disrespect the police. Agreed a lot of them deserve it (especially the 1 that I used to date) but that's just asking for trouble. Police have a hard job and some do abuse their power. However, the fact that some do abuse their power is the reason I will not be giving them the finger!
CD, good to know the judge had some sense of humor! Would have loved to have been in court that day!!!!
I also love your comments! You're getting a lot of love today!
Ditto! = )
You have to be careful these days of giving anyone the finger; not just cops. With the road rage situation what it is now, you are liable to get your head blown off with a gun by the person you gave the finger to.
You are absolutely right, Creek Dog. Holding up the middle finger may mean something totally different to people from different cultures. So the guy could have said it is the way we say hello in my culture Lol
It's not a good idea to disrespect anybody carrying a gun, police or not.
How about when Prez Bush was over in Australia(?) and as he was being driven away held up his index and middle finger in a "V" (victory, peace, etc) but the Aussie took it as "the finger" (F U).
My boyfriend tells me that all the time! Apparently I have a touch of the road rage.
putting your thumb and index finger in America means OKAY ! In other country's it has another meaning.
Lunkystraydog,
"putting your thumb and index finger in America means OKAY ! In other country's it has another meaning."
That's very true. Different gestures, body positions, and actions have different meanings in different cultures. For example, sitting with the soles of your feet or shoes point in the direction of another person or patting another person on the head or shoulders is considered an extreme insult in many Asian countries, especially in Southeast Asia. That's because in Buddhism the head is the most sacred part of the body, which becomes more vulgar as you proceed downward to the soles of the feet.
TO: Michael1601 who wrote:
He probably didn't hear you.
I for one welcome their abuse of power and the day I'll see them in Court for it.
Awesome. Too bad the local PD wouldn't care and might end up doing a Rodney King on you if anybody flipped them off...
Have to admire rural law... All the smarts of Barney Fife with the ignorance of the LAPD!
Halelujah!!!! Justice Fiinaally prevails!!!!!
I'll bet that the judge would find someone in contempt if they flipped him off!
I will grant that the job of the police is tough. But they signed up for it. Abuse of power is abuse of power and it is not excused by the fact that they have a difficult job. The fact is that the police officer in question felt offended (as one might expect) and decided to teach the ordinary citizen a lesson about who was in charge. The judge simply corrected that lesson.
Really? I would like to see you try it , you will be pulled over and THEY will find something wrong with your vehicle and ticket you and you might go to court and win later. but how much did it cost (lawyer) and loss wages going to court numerous times. so keep your hands on the steering wheel and drive and do what we all do and yell and cuss in your car !
I see it everyday driving down the road people flipping out in there cars (california) I think we need mental question on driving test, you people are @!$%#ing crazy !!!!
I hope he ficking sues the town for everything they're worth.
Though I might not necessarily do the same - he did, and he had to deal with the consequences, and now they should deal.
Cop is an @!$%# and lied under oath. Probably coached by an attorney 'cause most ain't bright enough to come up with a bull@!$%# story like "the woman's safety".
Not only is @!$%#ing 'em off allowed, it's encouraged.
On to the payoff. Too bad they can't get the @!$%# on perjury. Crook hiding behind a badge.
Perjury - and why did these "cops" walk free??
Also happened in Arizona with teens in the back seat FLIPPING the bird to a DPS officer. In the end, the United States Supreme Court ruled it a FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION! Why was this even taken to a state court??? Already been ruled on. In this case, the cop justified my contempt for MOST officers. Give them a badge and a gun and they have power issues and lie under oath. I have seen this quite often. Serve and protect??? Bull-hockey............................
Seems like a minor action causes heavy punishment. But whats the point of dis-respecting the cops? Especially if the citizen did little or nothing up front? I think the citizen is bringing ot on himself.
The point in disrespecting cops is that that is what they deserve. They run revenue speed traps, and pick on people because they are arrogant bullies. Meanwhile, because they aren't doing their jobs, people are dying in accidents at the rate of about 100 a day.
how is the citizen bringing it on himself? Is the officer so thin skinned that he cannot withstand an insult? The first amendment guarantees the RIGHT to freedom of speech/expression, the ultimate act of defiance has long been interpreted as "flipping the bird". The appeals court acted properly in overturning the lower court's decision. It is tough being a police officer, but with that territory goes the ability to withstand verbal confrontations abuse and not take it personally. As has oft been said, If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
Well said, traveler-938468! Applause!
Seems to me that if you don't want to be stopped in a "revenue speed trap", perhaps don't speed? Regardless of the cops' motivation, you still sped and deserve a ticket. When did everyone become so rude and arrogant to flip everyone off, mouth off, and expect no consequences at all? Good post Mr. Cheesehead.
AmyNoelle, you are making a classic mistake. You are assuming that speed limits are accurately set in a manner to best enhance safety, and that cops only enforce speed limits to enhance safety. Both assumptions are wrong.
There is a scientifically proven way to arrive at a proper speed limit. It's called the 85th percentile speed. Setting speed limits above or below that scientifically determined speed causes an increase in accident rates - however. ALL speed limits are deliberately set 10 to 15 MPH lower. Why? So they can be used as a revenue source! And cops don't care about safety. They care about revenue, and about getting to bully people.
Amy, Big Brother is not infallible, and your position that they are is naive and gullible. And I'm sure you NEVER exceed the posted speed limit. Yeah, right.
You guys remarks are funny, but hey, we all can't be Mr. and Miss goodie-two-shoes, how would American survive if we were.
Michael, stop recycling the same drivel you're posting everywhere else.
She asked why you don't just not speed, she didn't ask you for a tired, boring explanation as to why speed traps exist and how it's all a conspiracy.
Police officers don't set speed limits. They simply enforce the rules that they're required to.
Having once been busted for going 67 in a 65 zone I think sometimes it is purely about the revenue. Even the judge questioned the validity of the stop.
A lot of bad things have been done in the name of "just doing their job" and this another fine example. It used to be an officers job to enforce miscegenation laws too. Is it law makers fault first and foremost? Sure. But I certainly am not hearing Police officers demanding for traffic law revision. Guilty by complacency.
Let me fix that for you...
There, all better now.
Part of their job is traffic enforcement. While I am very much against speed traps, I don't follow the logic of how the cops driving around spending my money on gas is preventing those 100 deadly daily accidents.
I guess I don't have much of an opinion on this since I have no urge to flip people off. I don't hate the police either, in fact I could have gotten a drunk in public last St. Pattys day after walking home from our local pub. Instead the nice police officer drove me and my boyfriend home. THey aren't all bad so please stop generalizing... its getting old
@ the thinker. Their job is to enforce traffic laws including speeding. This makes people think twice before going 100 mph in a neighboorhood while school is letting out. There would be more deaths if there were no traffic laws and whats the point on having laws if no one is there to enforce them?
I'm sure if one were to display the "F you" sign in the face of some of the people who think it's ok to do so to a cop they'd have a different attitude. It's just disrespectful. And the person who did it did not mean 'Have a good day' to the cop. He meant "F you". Should he get arrested for it? I don't know... some fine perhaps. We simply can't have people going around flipping off cops. This society is already disrespectful enough as it is towards its own citizens; we don't need to start extending it to law enforcement as well.
common sense -
Why not? Are cops a special class of citizen that is above the law and demand that we show them signs of respect? Most cops have only a high school education and about 6 to 10 weeks of training at some state sponsored cop school. After a brief probationary period (less than a year) they are are set free to harass the public. Because of the power signified by the badge they expect to be treated better than most, and most people do show a respect that is based on fear of the power behind the badge.
How do I know this, my brother is a cop. I made the mistake of going on a ride along once. Long story short, he had set a speed trap on a road that was posted at 25 mph. He pulled over a PU truck for going 40 mph, noticed a badge with the driver, wished him a good day and sent him on his way. About 10 minutes later a white mini-van driven by a young mother (car seats in the van) going about 40 mph passed his position. Lights on, pulled over and ticketed.
Do cops racially profile - yes. Do they think they are above the law - yes. Do they hand out arrests as punishment - yes. I've seen and hear tales about all of these.
I flip off every cop I see.
It may be disrespectful but that sure doesn't make it illegal !!! Not in this country. Sometimes officers need to learn that distinction and remember who they serve.
common sense
Respect is not given, it is earned. The vast majority of police officers I have come into contact with deserve none. I will admit that not all cops are bad, but the power of authority attracts those who would abuse it.
Nobody put a gun to a cops head making him do his job. A lot of cops are stupid morons, but the worst are the wannbe cops, so stupid even a small town won't hire them. I lived in a small town and this a$$hole cop strode around in tight jeans, cowboy boots, big buckle, a badge and a Glock on his hip....until the town found out he used a forged GED to get in the police academy.
Michael 1601
You are the one making the actual classic mistake here. Speed limits are set by the states, counties and local government bodies. Not Cops. They just get to enforce the rules. If you had a partial brain cell left you would know that most speed limits are governed by the state setting minimum requirements based on Traffic studies. Using your theory that they are revenue makers maybe right in your state but not all. Having been a Montana Highway patrolman at one point in time I had the dubious honor of writing alot of $5.00 fail to conserve a natural resource ticket. In this instance the State of Montana lost approximately $15.00 per ticket written. Did not make money but it did actually work in slowing drivers down.
As to the "flipping of the bird" to a police office. I agree with the courts decision. Any Police Officer who is so shallow and narrow minded to be insulted from the action of a person's finger, and then having the audacity to make up a cockamammy story about the woman in the car may be in danger, should be stripped of his badge and sent packing nbever to work in Law Enforcement again. For once the courts got it right.
Ryan-1773892 - thankfully you posted what I wanted too btw the rant coming up isn't pointed at anyone that has stated the guy giving the finger was in the wrong..
I am in cop classes in college ran by cops.. They do have a "quota" per say per month to fill on speeding tickets because the STATE has ordered them to.. My instructor was a manager for the hiring department for clackamas county.. Oh and I have applied to be a cop..
So your telling me the cop shouldn't do his job, oh wait you all would be pissing and moaning the other way about the cop NOT doing his job.. The taxpayers should levy all the payment for response teams, that way no one ever gets pulled over for anything.. And most cops don't pull people over for doing two over but it's not unheard of..
Hell yeah I got a speeding ticket, hell yeah i was speeding and deserved the ticket.. So you @!$%#s need to admit you were wrong for speeding because if you hadn't been maybe just maybe you wouldn't have been pulled over.. See that's what's wrong with children these days, their parents that can't admit when they were wrong or did something wrong.. Cops fault for someone getting caught in a speeding trap because they were speeding..
I see it like this, your job tells you- you have a job due by monday at 9am are you going to give him the finger and expect to still have a job.. Lets hope to god you never have to depend on one of these "@!$%#s" you all despise to find your children or help you in any situation..
I will piss off plenty with my post so here you go, here is the finger "middle finger at the screen" take the big FO with it..
Lets hope if I do get the JOB that I never have to put my ass on the line for any of you that talk @!$%# or give cops the finger.. Disrespectful jerks..
The cop was wrong for what he did and his ass will get spanked for it. He gets the @!$%# end of the stick daily with drunks, @!$%#s, thieves, drug addicts, people that disrespect them, that holler and scream obscenities for him doing his JOB..
But it's okay give the person that you might need the finger because he did nothing wrong to you to begin with. Wonderful mentality, shows the low ability to make a real thought or think ahead.
Commonsense:
You feel there should be a law now making it illegal to be disrespectful and who do you think should determine whether an act is disrespectful or not? Jimmy Swaggart?
He's lucky the mob of cops didn't beat him to a pulp, then charge him with "resisting arrest", "assaulting an officer", and other bullpu$$y charges.
Yep, cause you know how that goes, all the while they are kicking your ass on the ground while you're handcuffed, they are yelling, "QUIT moving, QUIT resisting arrest!!"
This judge is an idiot. Disorderly conduct is an arrestable offense and obscene gestures fall under theat charge
Obscene?????? It's a finger you twit. It's what people infer from it and everyone is different. What is "obscene" to you is just a freedom of expression to others . . . or, an insulting expression. You're in a bad way if you think extending a finger is disorderly or obscene. Grow up and grow some skin. This is America and freedom of expression trumps some jackwagon's ego just because he is a cop.
@1249
Really? Are you serious? How can people still be willing to blindly follow authority, never question, never step out of line AND want to be sure everyone else complies with the color-inside-the-lines mentality as well? We have the right to freedom of speech and freedom of expression. How sad that you would prefer to live in a state of totalitarianism.
No, 1249, obscene gestures are NOT disorderly conduct. They are constitutionally protected free speech.
According to findlaw.com, disorderly conduct is in fact an arrestable offense, and "obscene gestures" do fall under the definition of disorderly conduct in NY penal code. From what I saw however, there's no "threat" offense in NY penal code, but there is menacing, and flipping the bird hardly makes the cut, as "a person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical injury."
The question is whether the judge finds that flipping the bird to be an "obscene gesture."
That's right Ken! And by the way 1249, the Judge is NOT an idiot either!~
psssssst, 1249: ┌∩┐
carry on.
sebreb - HILARIOUS!
zupercram
According to findlaw.com, disorderly conduct is in fact an arrestable offense, and "obscene gestures" do fall under the definition of disorderly conduct in NY penal code. From what I saw however, there's no "threat" offense in NY penal code, but there is menacing, and flipping the bird hardly makes the cut, as "a person is guilty of menacing in the third degree when, by physical menace, he or she intentionally places or attempts to place another person in fear of death, imminent serious physical injury or physical injury."
The question is whether the judge finds that flipping the bird to be an "obscene gesture."
I think you might better do some research and update your brain before making false statements.
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/local_news/water_cooler/giving-the-middle-finger-to-police-officers-is-legal-us-court-of-appeals-rules
This article is not the first time this has happened. It has been found and held in previous court rulings that giving "the finger" to a cop or anybody else is protected under the freedom of expression. The cops may not agree with your opinion of them abut it doesn't give them an excuse to harass you because of their differing opinion and their position of authority.
My grandfather had his right index finger amputated because of an accident. When he started counting you really were "number one".
starbuck49 - Sorry if my post was misunderstood, but I personally don't think the guy should be facing prosecutorial jeopardy. I was just citing raw NY penal code verbiage as it may apply to this case to debunk 1249's assertion that Mr. Swartz could be prosecuted for a "threat." I intentionally left out any sort of opinion on my last post, but now you know.
By the way, I did do some research. Here's the link:
N.Y. PEN. LAW § 240.20 : NY Code - Section 240.20: Disorderly conduct
FYI: Case law (court decisions) trumps statutory law (including codes and ordinances). So the penal code is no longer relevant if it contradicts the court's decision. But that won't stop stupid cops from continuing to enforce it.
TankManToo - In my opinion, flipping the bird would be protected speech, as it does not substantially infringe upon the rights of another individual.
(I'm not a lawyer, but I often pretend to be one on Newsvine.)
Zupercram
You need to do more research. Before making the statement make sure you know the definition. So unless "flipping the bird" incites in you the feeling of lustful or lewd actions, is offensive to accepted levels of decency or modesty or is repulsive or disgusting then you may have a claim. Unfortunately it is comon place to "flip the bird" as a form of greeting to many people in the U.S. majority of the people do not instantly enter into a lustful or lewd state and majority of the people do not find it repulsive or disgusting.
I would hazard to guess that the judge knows the law, and how to interpret it a little bit better than you.
The actions of the police officers were unreasonable and out of line given their supposed training positions.
However... while Swartz has every right afforded him under the Constitution to indulge in such a petty gesture, as he has learned, doing so has consequences. If he is in the habit of doing this to others, he may one day find himself the victim of violent road rage, and he and his wife, or anyone else riding with him, may have to try and defend themselves from the ticked off feelings of an idiot with a gun and a chip the size of a Redwood on his shoulder.
We don't have every right to make nasty gestures and use foul language. It's not a right, even tho our society has deteriorated to the point where using the "f" three or four times in each sentence is commonplace.
Furthermore, such behavior often infringes on the rights of others. I don't like to hear filthy language when I take my kids to the park or zoo. I think I have a right not to have to be subjected to such offensive behavior. It's just like people throwing their trash ouit the window into my yard. I have to pick up after them.
It wasn't always like this. Used to be people had to clean up their public behavior or risk getting fined for cursing in front of children. But since we stopped punishing adults for such behavior we now see our f-ing kids f-ing swearing every f-ing other word, as tho it is no big deal.
While I agree with you, the court evidently doesn't.
That's why I like living in the woods, with my dogs and horse. We understand each other and the only time we swear is when raging thunderstorms make it seem as thouogh we're about to take off for Oz.
1249...don't want to burst your little cocoon, but gesturing with a finger is not infringing on anyone's rights and, according to the court, is protected speech. Your post is offensive behavior, and having to read it is infringing on my rights.
I simply return the gesture. what can they do? claim it's harassment? Clowns don't realize it works both ways,.
"an idiot with a gun and a chip the size of a Redwood on his shoulder"
I think you just accurately described those cops.
You're welcome to think whatever you want, but if you look, there is no Constitutional right to not be offended.
So good luck with that.
I think you better hurry on down to the supreme court and educate the judges because they have a differing opinion - on both the justures and language.
1249.....
U.S. Constitution - Amendment 1
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for aredress of grievances.
You are welcome.
Everybody knows that the bird is a word...
One day when leaving work a blue Chevy Malibu pulled up beside me and there was a bus in my lane about 100 yards up the street. When the light changed I raced forward to get in front of the Chevy and he accelerated and cut me off. I flipped the driver off. As I came around the bus he was waiting on the other side and then put a blue light on top of his car and hit his siren. I had flipped off a cop.
In the end, no ticket, no fine, just a lecture on road rage. Funny that I knew the guy as he did security at my work building after hours. We actually had good talk. This idea that all cops are jerks is just wrong-headed.
But do not do this in Europe. Not even to a fellow driver. Big fines, especially on the Autobahn for such gestures.
TO: voxrationis who wrote:
What a freaking creep that guy was!
He cut you off when he clearly saw what you were trying to do and totally stopped you from making your move, and then pretended to pull you over and accused YOU of having "road rage" AND lecturing you! What an a-hole!!
Now that is what I call a SERIOUS abuse of authority AND entrapment for intentionally cutting you off in traffic, and then putting on his "tuff guy" bull crap, acting like it's ok to piss you off, but you had better not respond in kind.
Just goes to show what a great ruling the court made.
You go, American Girl!!! You get it. I wish more people did. If everyone would stand up to the system, it would collapse, and that is exactly what needs to happen.
If the system would collapse then who would come in and buy the burgers you flip for a living?
R. Scalzo, I have a college degree in Electronic Engineering with a 4.0 average, and two additional years at a top rated engineering college in a pre-NASA program. I've also owned two successful businesses, have built and flown my own airplane, and performed professional level classical piano in recital at a top notch university, among many other acheivements. I don't flip burgers for a living... So what have you done with your life.
Michael1601, And yet nothing but ignorance comes out of your mouth. Is there a scientific percentage that explains that?
not all cops are jerks but they are all bad cause they are willing to cover up for the ones who abuse their power, making them just as guilty.
Entrapment is purposefully enticing one into doing something illegal that they normally wouldn't have done. From the scenario provided, there was no entrapment because there wasn't any crime committed - period. The "bully" cop presented a possibility - road rage.
Vox...Eff that guy, you pu$$y.
Perfect. The jackass has "protected" our freedom to flip cops the bird when they don't deserve it, and in doing so he's helped deplete some city's or county's treasury of several hundred thousand dollars in legal expenses. (Or, if the cost of defending the suit is covered by insurance, he's helped keep those insurance premiums at a level that Americans have been howling about for years already). What a "victory" for all of us. Excellent example of a situation where the question really isn't whether you have a "right" to be an ass, but rather, are you a good enough human being that you will choose NOT to exercise the right?
More people need to express their displeasure at traffic cops, and the system in general. I applaud anyone who fights back, and wastes the government's money. The entire traffic fines system has been turned into a revenue source. It is no longer about safety. It's just more government abuse.
Mike, you approach this from the wrong angle. It is the jurisdiction that is at fault NOT the citizen. No legal battle would have been required had the officer just laughed off the "bird" and waved back. Have you never "turned the other cheek". This was an abuse of power by an officer that needs to be reviewed for his suitability to the job. An official of the government and especially a police officer must be able to withstand serious verbal abuse and not react inappropriately. There is no law against being an A**hole, and every citizen is guaranteed the RIGHT to freedom of expression under the 1st amendment.
Please place the blame where it belongs, on the Officer and the jurisdiction that hired him, not a citizen expressing the recognized final act of defiance. Flipping the bird may be offensive, just as cussing is, but it's no reason to persecute someone as this individual did. As I previously posted, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"
PS my credentials include 20+ years as a state inspector, and former police officer.
If a cop in 21st century America has the time to cite a person for flipping the bird he needs more to do. Cops aren't God, they aren't above the law, they are there to serve, period. So, can i now call 911 when a person flips me off. Can I make a citizen's arrest?? Can I sue the person??? Come on and be real.
No, the "jackass" did not deplete the treasury, the cop did when he chose to violate the Constitution.
I know my taxes will pay for this, but I hope he sues them for HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS. And the "officer" involved should be shot in the face.
Anger management issues there Michael? Hoping someone gets shot in the face? Please don't teach that type of hyperbole and anger to the future generations.
Sorry Michael but you are simply documenting your total lack of any intelligence. Idiots like you simply prove my faith in birth control and why it wasn't used by your parent when they had a chance.
Meanwhile, next time you go by, remind me to give you the finger.
How can a post that says an officer should get shot in the face get 4 positive votes. Civilized society in America is crumbling before our very eyes.
MichealBlack I agree! The offending civil rights violator should be shot and the other two who assisted in the violations should be shot in the legs. At the minimal, all three should be tarred and feathered in public by the masses who employ them!
it is not a crime to be an A$$hole. Should he have done it? No. But it still does not warrant a traffic stop and getting arrested.
Disorderly conduct is a crime
TO: 1249 who wrote:
Apparently, the Court doesn't agree with you in this case (thank the stars!).
1249, you are WRONG:
§ 16-11-39. Disorderly conduct
(a) A person commits the offense of disorderly conduct when such person commits any of the following:
(1) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another person whereby such person is placed in reasonable fear of the safety of such person's life, limb, or health;
(2) Acts in a violent or tumultuous manner toward another person whereby the property of such person is placed in danger of being damaged or destroyed;
(3) Without provocation, uses to or of another person in such other person's presence, opprobrious or abusive words which by their very utterance tend to incite to an immediate breach of the peace, that is to say, words which as a matter of common knowledge and under ordinary circumstances will, when used to or of another person in such other person's presence, naturally tend to provoke violent resentment, that is, words commonly called "fighting words"; or
(4) Without provocation, uses obscene and vulgar or profane language in the presence of or by telephone to a person under the age of 14 years which threatens an immediate breach of the peace.
(b) Any person who commits the offense of disorderly conduct shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.
@1249, I find your comments offensive. Maybe I should have you arrested.
1249...30 days in the hole for you.
You get what you give Mr. Orficer! I mean Mr. Officer.....I can't believe the amount of badge bunnies in this newsvine place.
This is great. Every place Obama goes the people should be shown flipping him the bird!
TO: rober34 who wrote:
The majority of the American People like our President and just re-elected him.
However, if I should ever see either Mitt Romney or George "Curveball" Bush out and about, I'll take your advice.
It's a good ruling. Now fire the pig and all those who supported him.
I have found that Middle Tennessee is Middle Finger country. Middle aged men in pickup trucks tailgate and shoot you the bird because, god forbid, you are going less than 20 MPH over the posted speed limit. They exclaim, what an a**hole, going 55 mph in a 55!!! He oughta be shot! I'm just afraid one of these days, with guns galore, this is going to happen (I try to avoid driving in Tennessee as much as possible). In that same state, they have 30 MPH signs starting 2 or 3 miles from the beginning of any town. They let the "locals" speed happily by and nail anyone out of state.
Goat, I'm from middle Tennessee, and you're right, but I've found pretty much the same situation everywhere I've been. Small towns use speed traps as revenue sources. That's why the speed limits extend so far out of town. They don't give a damn about safety. They just want the money. That's why they target out-of-town folks - it isn't worth it to drive back to fight the tax bill, er, ticket.
The financial incentive needs to be removed from the equation. Until it is, cops will still run speed traps for revenue, while careless driving is what really kills people. But, then again, even without the revenue incentive, cops will still harass motorists - most took the job because they hate people, and want a way to retaliate against them.
A number of years ago there was a small municipality (don't remember the name of it) that was entirely surrounded by the City of Cleveland. A one mile stretch of I-75 ran through its city limits; there were no entrance or exit ramps in that stretch. This village, with a population of about 2,500 people owned 14 patrol cars. These cars were used 24/7 radar patroling that one mile stretch of I-75, busting people who were going one or two miles an hour over the 55 mph speed limit. The municipality imposed no taxes or fees whatsoever on their local citizens; the entire city budget was funded by these speeding arrests of non-residents.
Finally the State of Ohio managed to get this speeding mill closed down.
So sometimes it is about the money.
Rick, there are lines of a-holes waiting to take those small town cop jobs.
TO: Michael1601 who wrote:
I've driven across country and have found that tickets issued in states that you pass through are not enforceable.
Of course they can suspend your license in Nebraska but if you live in another state like California, Nebraska cannot enforce any ticket they may issue and have no jurisdiction to force you to go back Nebraska to appear in Court on the ticket, nor can they tarnish your California Driver's License.
In fact, I was pulled over for speeding in Nashville, Tennessee but was given a "warning" and the officer was really nice, and just asked me to watch my speed and slow it down, and nothing more. Seemed like a nice enough officer to me.
Score one for The Constitution.
Got pulled over once for blinking my headlights during the day to warn oncoming traffic to watch their speed, as there was a trooper hiding with radar. Used "freedom of speech" as my defense and walked.
You were lucky. Big Brother usually uses "obstruction of justice" and "interfering with a police officer" against those of us who warn others about speed traps. Big Brother usually wins these cases.
Not true. The tickets are issued in hopes that the inconvenience of being pulled over, ticketed, and then having to fight it in court is a deterrent. Word of mouth is effective - when you find out what your friend had to go through, all because he flashed his lights, it might make you think twice.
But when the person does go to Court to fight the ticket, the precedent has already been set. Flashing your lights is protected free speech. Unfortunately, you may have to suffer quite a bit of inconvenience to enjoy that right. But no, Big Brother rarely wins those cases. Big Brother is counting on the "inconvenience factor" to solve his problem, not the Courts.
There were several cases of headlight flashing thrown out in Florida last year. Amendment 1 protected.
thanks, but i don't think i'm gonna take that chance!
Yes, the correct decision was rendered here. For sure.
On the other hand, it certainly isn't smart to go around insulting police officers, regardless of whether it's legal. They have memories and are human just like the rest of us. You just might need the assistance of that cop in the future, and the cop might be just a tad slow in giving it.
Live free or......or......umm.......outlaw medical pot, have companion ID laws to buy alcohol, and get your car inspected by the state. That's your saying right? (I think it's time you got a new motto).
Basically, you are saying yes rapists shouldn't rape, but damn that girl should have had more clothing on.
No, what I'm saying is use the brains you were born with.
Or were you in the restroom when they gave out the brains?
NO need for a PIG. Where do I get my tax refund for services not rendered? PIGS are glorified janitors in my household....call them after the mess is sorted out and have them clean up the mess.
i like my freedom and my face!
BBBAD,
Stay out of Miami then...we have a face eating naked zombi problem down here....just sayin.
I go back and forth on how to fix things like this. On the one hand, requiring more education (as in, another actual degree) from those wishing to be police officers might help figure out which country they live in and what the laws are like. But on the other hand, these issues seem to keep arising from cops with personality disorders which are kinda hard to screen for. In that case, it may be better to make the police academy more like the military's training and have the cops tied up and kicked by their superiors so they develop a thick skin, and little incidents like these won't get to them any more. Or a third option might be to send them all on 3 month rotations overseas so they can learn what actual dangerous people and riots look like. I don't know, but I'm willing to experiment until we find a good solution.
I ummm..don't know if you are serious or not, but I will reply to one point anyway. Many communities have tried the requirement of having a degree to be a police officer. It does work great..as long as you are an upper middle class community (predominitly white). However, those same officers, when working in working class or lower (economically speaking) communities, tend to be the ones that abuse authority over the residents there, as there is less of a connection and sympathy with the community. So, by requiring higher education for police officers, you do tend to get a more intellegent police, but one that is more disconnected from the communities that truly need their assistance.
The personality traits they look for are those of "sheepish" qualities. They don't want critical thinkers in a PD because if they did, 90% of the force would walk out due to witnessing the corruption and crimes they perpetrate on the public on a daily basis. In other words, they want people who will take orders, not question those orders, and proceed to do their job they were ordered to do. Google clustered personality traits....those are the PIG-types who pass the psych exam.
Gee, the cops lied, obstructed justice, filed false police reports, and kept dreaming up circumstance and charges that supported their illegal actions.
They'll probably get promoted.
I've tend to found that the people that think traffic cops are bullies, a-holes, jerks, and so forth are the morons that speed and drive recklessly and get caught and ticketed...just saying.
Tim,
I find that people who hate cops are usually up to no good and are generally just pissed they can't carry on their criminal activities without constantly looking over their shoulders...get caught doing/selling drugs, drinking and driving, thugs.....those sorts....peeps who are up to something hate cops. The rest of us are glad they are around.
I hate cops because of the Blue Wall where cops protect cops that commit crimes. There are about 800,000 LEO's in the US. By the third year they know of a fellow officer felony, and do nothing. That makes US cops the largest criminal organization in the world. I tend to find that people that like cops don't know any, or are pertty much aholes themselves. Go ahead an bone up on some facts before you make glib judgements about the biggest bunch of unqualified taxpayer-paid creeps that ever existed. http://www.policemisconduct.net/
There are no good cops past year 3. Ask any "good cop" you know if they know of a crime commited by another cop. Then ask them when they arrested that bad cop.
You should go flip a few off tonight while you are driving around Arsenic....it's totally legal.....although I for one hope you flip off a bad one myself.
Troy all the dirty cops that got caught resign before they get fired, so they can move to another jurisdiction like nothing ever happened.
Is it safe to assume you have some blue juice on your chin? You should wipe that problem off your chin.....
Like most everyone, I respect authority, and I have a nearly perfect driving record. Having said that, I believe that police officers are like everyone else, they hate to do real work, especially when it's cold, wet, or near the end of their shift. Yes, and they're either well aware of their need to raise revenue, or that's part of the expectation for keeping their job. It's not the cop. It's the system! Most cops work for $13-$15/hour, and most of us earn more than that and take fewer risks. They SHOULD get paid more, AND, the expectations that they will do more than sit with a radar gun in their hand for endless hours should be stressed. It used to be that you'd see them walking your neighborhood, and everyone knew their name. Now, just seeing one out of a car (unless going for food or to detain someone) is a rarity. Yeah, the system needs fixing! And FYI, if you're driving through Byrnes Mills, Missouri, think twice before flipping them off. If they're that close, you can bet they ALREADY know your name and everything about you..... (somebody has to pay for those $60k police cars.....)
Using your logic, a 7-11 Clerk has more "risks" during the course of their workday than ANY cop. With that said, according to your logic a 7-11 clerk should be the highest paid occupation due to the high risk!
FTP!
Is there any wonder people hate cops? I idolized cop killers myself.
Mrmedicineboxes,
In general, everyday people don't hate cops, people who are up to no good and don't want to get caught hate cops.
That's mainly because you're a moronic piece of trash. You actually idolize their prison showers.
Or will as soon as the law of averages kicks in for him, R.Scalzo.
People who idolize cop killers are usually not very rational or pragmatic and generally openly display a clear lack of intelligence. How many times in your life have you decided its a good idea to flip off a cop?....only stupid people would direct unneccesary attention to themselves from a person in a position of power and authority...plus, it's just outright rude to begin with.
If you flip off a traffic cop, you are an idiot. Never poke a sleeping bear it seems to me.
Legally... it might be OK.
I won't support anyone doing it because I've seen too many cops take bullets to keep the streets safe, or do the extra hours to help out a community search.
You might disagree with them, and you might not like what they stand for... but when they still continue to protect and serve, I won't say anything against them. Are there bad cops? Yeah... just like there are bad citizens, politicians, and judges. The good ones shouldn't have to pay for the bad ones.
Then let the good ones prove their good faith by rooting out the bad ones instead of protecting them.
They protect and serve themselves! What kook-aid are you drinking? The most recent case in NY is a perfect example. Crazed gunman rummaging through the streets...NYPD responds.....dozens of shots fired, perp dead, and dozens of citizens all hit with gunfire......hit with gunfire from the guns of the NYPD! Enlighten me, how is that "protecting" and "serving" the Public?
There are so many people posting that it is okay to be disrespectful to police. They have one of the most dangerous jobs. They are out there keeping rapists, robbers, murderers, etc… off the streets. The next time any of you have an urge to "flip the bird" at a police officer, think about how that officer would feel about you if you needed them for help! Grow up people and act like adults!
I believe in free speech
but it does need to have limits on it
our laws now seem to be all about your freedom to do whatever your want
but what about my right not to have to hear your crap?
Jim, if you don't want to hear people's crap, turn off your TV.
Jim, you make good points but it seems bizarre that someone who doesn't want to hear nonsense comes to a news thread filled with around 90% crap....lol.
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"I believe in free speech
but it does need to have limits on it"
Soooo...you don't believe in Free Speech?
I think NBC is trying to help local police stations generate revenue...lol.
If you flip a cop off, you are an idiot.
I agree, if you flip off a cop, you're an idiot.
If you burn the American Flag, you're a HUGE EFFING IDIOT.
Unfortunately, both actions need to be protected. I don't like it, but I do understand it.
I agree that freedom should come first. My point is simply; Why draw the attention of a Police Officer your way in that manner if you hate them...it can only go downhill from that point on.