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Subscribe to RSSWitnesses described the gruesome scene left behind, a tear gas-filled killing zone that left 12 dead. NBC's Mike Taibbi reports.
Updated 7:45 p.m. ET: The scene inside Theater 9 was pure chaos and horror: bloodied victims crawling for the exits past motionless bodies, the smell of tear gas stinging the disbelieving eyes of police officers, cellphones ringing all around.
Just a few feet away, though, in the multiplex parking lot, James Holmes was the picture of calm, “just standing there” in a helmet, gas mask and body armor, staring off into the distance.
“He seemed very detached from it all,” Officer Jason Oviatt of the Aurora, Colo., Police Department testified Monday as a preliminary hearing got under way with graphic testimony about the July 20 carnage at a midnight screening of a Batman movie.
“Very, very relaxed.”
Oviatt was the first witness at a hearing that saw a veteran officer break down on the stand as he described finding the body of a 6-year-old girl – one of 12 people killed and 58 wounded in the ambush.
Victims’ relatives sat quietly in the courtroom as officers recalled how one wounded woman stopped breathing every time she was moved, another victim gasped for breath on the way to the hospital, a third kept asking if his wife would live.
One cop spoke of a sound that will probably haunt him forever: the slosh of blood in the back seat of the car he used to take six people from the Century 16 cinema to the hospital.
Through all the gut-wrenching testimony – which included the revelation that Holmes, 25, bought his ticket to the movie 12 days before the screening – the bearded massacre suspect did not react.
His demeanor was apparently not that different from the one Oviatt encountered in the parking lot last summer.
Oviatt was on the graveyard shift in the Denver suburb when the call about the shooting came in. He followed a trail of blood to the back of the building and found Holmes standing by a car in SWAT-type gear.
He thought he was a police officer, but as he got closer, realized he was wrong.
'Robot': Victims' families eye theater massacre suspect
At gunpoint, he ordered the suspect to put up his hands and get on the ground, where he handcuffed him. Holmes – dripping with sweat, his pupils wildly dilated, reeking of body odor – did not display “normal emotional responses” and did not resist, he said.
The officers asked him if he was alone and Holmes responded with a strange smile, “like a smirk,” Officer Justin Grizzle testified.
There was a rifle by the car, and when Oviatt searched Holmes, he found two ammunition magazines in his pocket and two knives. Holmes volunteered that his home had been booby-trapped with “improvised explosive devices,” Oviatt said.
Officer Aaron Blue helped Oviatt search Holmes, but after the suspect was secure, his attention was drawn to the theater, where another cop was pulling out a woman who had been shot in the head and the leg.
Court hearing focuses on Holmes' notebook
“Every time she moved, she stopped breathing,” Blue said.
The woman was Jessica Ghawi, 24, a blogger who had been tweeting about the movie, “The Dark Knight Rises,” not long before Holmes allegedly tossed tear-gas canisters into the theater and opened fire.
Blue and the other officer took her to University Hospital, where she died.
Grizzle went into the theater, where he heard people screaming and stepped over an assault rifle left on the blood-slicked floor. Alarms were going off and “The Dark Knight Rises” was still playing on the screen. All around him, he saw still bodies and “some gunshot victims that were just crawling to get out."
He made four trips to the hospital with victims.
“I didn’t want anyone else to die,” he said.
On his first drive, Ashley Moser, 25, shot in the head and abdomen, was in the back seat. Her boyfriend kept asking, “That’s my wife. Is my wife going to live?” and tried to jump out of the car to find Ashley’s 6-year-daughter. The pregnant mom survived but later miscarried and was paralyzed. Her daughter, Veronica, died.
On another trip, standup comic Caleb Medley was in the back seat. He’d been shot in the face and was making terrible noises. Each time he stopped breathing, the officer, using an expletive, ordered him not to die. Medley survived.
By the time Grizzle was done transporting the wounded, he noticed his patrol car was spattered with blood.
“I could hear blood sloshing in the back,” he said.
KUSA's Anastasiya Bolton and Blair Shiff contributed to this report.
Ted S. Warren / AP
Twelve people were killed and 58 were injured when a gunman opened fire in an Aurora, Colo., movie theater.
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It's the guns fault!!!!!! 3,2,1........Blast off! Successful liftoff, predict 1,429 comments. Naughty guns.
Whether or not guns are "naughty", the NRA's Wayne LaPierre remains the anti-Christ.
Enough with your NRA nonsense. 4.8 million gun permits applied for in the last two months, and yet most of these permits were likely applied for by those who already own firearms. In no way whatsoever does this saturation of weapons make us a better nation. Nearly every crime committed in this country with a firearm is committed with a weapon that was once legally purchased. As long as loopholes allow the transfer of weapons without documentation we have a real problem. Go ahead and bury your head in the sand if you like. And what is the purpose of a private citizen purchasing body armor as this clown did via the internet?
Guns are a disease, a sickness that permeates in America . If you need a gun to feel like somebody get help. Totally understandable to own a single firearm for self protection but there are far too many Americans who play with these killing tools as if they were toys. And they usually have the attitude you have taken, arrogant and superior acting, when they are nothing of the sort.
This guy is sick as h-ll. Thankfully he will never walk freely in our society again.
If the slaughter of twenty innocent children in Newtown doesn't change things I am not sure what it will take to bring some sanity to the discussion? The gun nuts blamed that on mental illness but lets see the comments pop up on this page showing most of you don't even believe such a thing exists.
I am just waiting for one of these goofballs to kill about a hundred people and see if that doesn't change things once and for all.
Simple question: How many people would have died in that theater if Holmes hadn't had a gun?
Another simple question: Is a gun a tool designed to kill, or isn't it?
Holmes may be insane or he may be faking, but I think he needs to live out his life behind bars. Execution is too good for him.
Maybe you'll at least agree that 100%, not 40%, of gun purchasers should go through a background check and not slip through a loophole. It that one additional tightening of the process you can live with? It won't fix everything but it might be a sensible start. Heck, we drug test and background check every employee and we're hiring accountants and sales people. Seems you could get to 100% for gun purchasers.
Kaybeetoys
If he had not had a gun maybe he would have used a bomb and killed even more,he (they) had smoke canisters....
Blaming guns is just what they want,Obama and people in this administration were involved in Fast and Furious selling guns illegaly,Im more concerned about the powers that Be,and how the media and This administration's supporters have turned a blind eye to any questionable actions carried out by them have been covered up ,than law abiding American citizens and guns they own.
What is truely disturbing is the lack of actual investigative reporting on this induvidual. We still have no information on the family, friends, groups, or associates of this iduvidual. Just a theory I will submit...he was a left-wing activist and therefore immune to any real reporting by the media. Case in point, the Sikh Temple shooting and Trevon Martin incedents. In both cases we were flooded with information on the backgrounds, family, and associates of the shooter within days and the coverage lasted for weeks. However, this case along with the Sandy Hook and most recently the Village coulple (although they had not actually carried out the plot, they were OWS and had explosives and illegal firearms) warrants very little coverage on the persons of interest or thier connections. Instead, they focus on the inanimate object (the firearm) and the millions of legal owners who are law abiding citizens. Once you mentally digest that rational, if you can't see the disparity in logic then you are one who chooses to be ignorant.
there is no doubt he was, an is now mentally ill; however his planning and actions show he knew what he was doing; a plea deal will be worked out(since due to his illness he can not be put to death); he will spend the rest of his miserable life in jail, let out once a day for one hour for exercise, by himself, he will be fed in his cell, which he will occupy alone; think about this , next 50 years in solitary confinement, much better than just putting him out of his miserable life.
Exactly, maybe an atomic bomb.
But he didn't because he couldn't go online and just buy one like he did his actual arsenal.
Disagree that a bomb would have been used if he hadn't had access to a gun. That's mere conjecture.
Should we all carry bombs, then? ...sheesh...
Disagree that he is a 'left-wing activist'...also conjecture from a biased pro-gun perspective.
Disagree that he should be executed. Maybe someday he'll wake up to the reality of what he did and become sincerely remorseful. Why deny him and the families of his victims that opportunity by killing him too? An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
I think the "he would have used a bomb" argument is silly. Far fewer people have access to bombs or know how to build them than have access to guns.
I think the "he would have used a bomb" argument is silly. Far fewer people have access to bombs or know how to build them than have access to guns.
agreed....signed..
T. McVeigh
Taliban
Terrorist's
homemade nut jobs that are busted regularly
homemade nut jobs that are NOT busted regularly.
William and the rest,
Anyone can make a bomb,he was a doctoral student in neuroscience ,molotov cocktails are not very complicated,If someone is hellbent on killing they will find a way with or without guns.
With the million and millions of guns in circulation gun control is a moot issue. These control issues should have been brought up 100 years ago-pretty much to late now. All you will do now is take guns from law abiding citizens and not from the crazies or criminals. There will still be millions of guns out there available for the wrong people.
I want to know why they won't release his medical records. I want to know what prescription drugs he was on. Many of the antidepressants and anti anxiety meds, while sometimes have the desired effects, also have side effects such as suicidal thoughts, thoughts of self harm or harm to others, etc.
If nothing else, we will have an idea of how many other ticking time bombs there are walking around.
They banned guns in Australia after many massacres, and there hasn't bee once since in over a decade. Go figure!
When they went to his apartment, they evacuated everyone around it, even buildings across the street and beside it, because his own apartment was set up with sophisticated chemicals that would explode if they opened the door.
The firemen and local bomb squad had to call in FBI bomb explosive experts because they had never seen anything like it. They said it was highly sophistocated.
That has been shoved under the carpet by the news media and only the guns have been getting the hype, because they are... well... GUNS!
The professor in Huntsville AL who shot up the faculty was suspected of sending two pipe bombs through the mail previously. All played down in the media and only guns focused on. You can mix cat box litter with cooking oil and start a fire. Bombs are not that difficult. Molotov cocktails have been around for two centuries.
Get real!
Dennis, That's a defeatist argument. Gun buy backs and restrictions on sales of ammunication could prove effective.
Yes, and you can kill someone with a raisin if you are a trained assassin. Mot gun deaths occur betwen neighbors and friends who have no clue about kitty litter bombs. BTW, you are much more likely to die from gun violence if you have a gun at home than if you don't.
Besides, in Australia since they banned guns they have not had another massacre. Why didn't the nuts there device kangooroo bombs?
I want to hear about this case.
But I LOVE that now that the victim part is over, that the media is going to give this killer exactly what he wanted...his picture in the news for the next year. Good on you MSNBC. Good on you for encouraging more mass shootings for fame.
Nicky. How much for a bomb online?
so i guess its easier to go after the evil guns than the evil people! i wish the state of co would save some money and find this guy hanging in his cell im sure they have some extra belts hanging around they could drop by accident! wink wink nod nod. this guy does not deserve due process.
Most people with guns at home are most likely killed by intruders with their own guns because they hesitate to pull the trigger on another human. They just don't have the "killer instinct" and can't bring themselves to take that step.
They stand there yelling "I'll shoot, I'll shoot!" instead of just shooting, hoping the intruder will run away. Instead the intruder takes those seconds of hesitation to wrestle the gun away and shoots the homeowner.
If you aren't going to use the gun as protection, don't have one. Then the statistics of homeowners being shot with their own weapons will go down drastically.
Actually most gun deaths at home do not involve an intruder at all.
Protection or peril? An analysis of firearm-related deaths in the home.
Kellermann AL, Reay DT.
Abstract
To study the epidemiology of deaths involving firearms kept in the home, we reviewed all the gunshot deaths that occurred in King County, Washington (population 1,270,000), from 1978 through 1983. The medical examiner's case files were supplemented by police records or interviews with investigating officers or both, to obtain specific information about the circumstances, the scene of the incident, the type of firearm involved, and the relationship of the suspect to the victim. A total of 743 firearm-related deaths occurred during this six-year period, 398 of which (54 percent) occurred in the residence where the firearm was kept. Only 2 of these 398 deaths (0.5 percent) involved an intruder shot during attempted entry. Seven persons (1.8 percent) were killed in self-defense. For every case of self-protection homicide involving a firearm kept in the home, there were 1.3 accidental deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms. Hand-guns were used in 70.5 percent of these deaths. The advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned.
You made that comment specifically about the Aurora CO shooter and specifically about the speculation that he might have used a bomb if a gun were not available.
I refuted your comment with the information that law enforcement found sophistocated chemical bombs in his apartment. You have not addressed that. You made a frivilous comment about kitty litter bombs.
My point was that anyone hell bent on massive destruction such as the Aurora killer or Adam Lanza would indeed be capable of constructing a home made bomb to achieve maximum effect.
The family type killers would resort to knives, hammers, axes, baseball bats... things of that nature, as we have seen in news stories.
Maybe so. But knives are much less effective.
According to one study:
The rate of knife deaths per 100 reported knife attacks was less than 1/5 the rate of gun deaths per 100 reported gun attacks.
from
University of Chicago Law Review
35 (1968): 721.
Like in Chicago ?
Like in Australia
1968........? ....your argument is based on a 45 year old study? ...really ??......bawahahahahahahahahha .....well the report i read (circa 1342 ) listed NO deaths by firearm......swords knives etc. but no guns....
notrocketscience-503001
Actually, Kellerman's "study" has been debunked by many researchers as not being properly researched. One of them was Edgar A. Suter MD, National Chair, Doctors for Integrity In Policy Research, Inc., San Ramon, CA.
There are many others who agreed with the debunking of Kellerman's study. Kellerman was the only one who conducted the "study."
Limited subjects, limited interviews, limited grounds for conclusions, a biased anti-gun proponent. Flawed research.
Ster2
Fast and Furious never would have happened if the NRA and Far right were not denying the obvious, that guns from US gun shops along border states are being taken into Mexico.
It is also the first time I recall a Righty suggesting a gun actually killed someone! Nearly two years of investigation resulting in a few reprimands for lower level ATF agents, and you wonder why our government no longer functions? Partisan garbage.
As for turning a blind eye, that is hardly the case, we just don't read WND or listen to Limbaugh and Beck. We try to keep things reality-based. And as for blind eyes, we only need to look back at the previous administration to know that is a joke accusation from the Right.
And bombs don't seem to be the weapon of choice for these loons. So much easier to just walk into a store and purchase a ready-made killing tool or steal them as Lanza did. Although this guy did booby trap his apartment. But he never could have put that contraption together at the theatre. And police still haven't said if that device was valid or just alot of scary looking wiring and liquids.
The fact is that on the same calendar day as the Newton shootings there was a knife attack at a Chinese school. Although some 20 kids were injured, none died. Their parents will see them grow up.
Forget studies because this is kind of obvious. There is hardly a more efficient and easily obtainable killing tool than a semi-automatic rifle. The weapon of choice for madmen.
Your inane written laughter says enough.
Collapsible comment or not, the NRA's Wayne LaPierre remains the anti-Christ and is a 21st Century American terrorist.
IA Scooter, you are right the study if from 1968. By now, guns are that much more effective as compared to knives.
Sriminmimi, The Kellerman study was debunked by whom other than gun rights activists?
Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
+ Author Affiliations
1. 1 Division of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA. 2. 2 Epidemiology Program Office, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA. 3. 3 Office of Statistics and Programming, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA.
Next Section
Abstract
Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.
The sickness thats affecting America is not guns.
There is a great evil in the world and is slowly infiltrating
our government. It is called zionism. They think that we (goyem) were put on
this earth to serve them. They use our sons and daughters to fight wars with
islam because in their mind they are better than US. This NWO cancer must be
removed from our halls of congress. Geitner, Levin, Lieberman, Bernanke, Feinstein, Bloomberg,
Schumer, Big sis, and Raum Emanual. They want to take over America
because their banking fraud is crumbling. The only way they can do that is to
take our arms away. The zionists want to do away with the bill of rights and
the constitution to make slaves of all of US. They are going to collapse our
economy and wait for the sheeple to cry out for help. The help they will give
you is a room at a Fema camp. You think I'm crazy, research it. Read the
Talmud. Killing US is not a sin in their minds. Personally, I have many
questions about the Aurora and Newton shootings. Whose bloody footprints disapeared into a car in Aurora? Who were the 2nd and 3rd people they
arrested. The one proned out in the woods. Eyewitnesses in both events say there were
multiple shooters. The story keeps
changing and getting more bizarre every day. The fathers of both the Aurora and
Newton shooters were supposed to testify before congress about the Libor
scandal. Coincidence, I think not. Start arresting some domestic enemies and
things will change for the better. Are there any patriots left in DC? Why are
all the gun grabbers jewish?
This crime was premeditated. He obviously thought about it a great deal and prepared extensively before acting on his plan. He fully intended to kill people, for whatever reason.
The tools he used to commit the crime are irrelevant. Would we feel better if he had decided to fire bomb the theater instead of shooting people? I think not. As someone else mentioned, molotov cocktails have been around for a long time, he could've easily thrown a few of them covering the exits and burned everyone alive. A pleasant thought isn't it.
This guy should be terminated, I, for one, have no desire to support him for the rest of his life. I have difficulty believing that his "mental illness" will prevent him from understanding why he's being put to death. To be completely honest, I don't care if he does or not, it's one less.
Worn out
I didn't know Obama was Jewish.....
OK so where is the Theater Surveillance Video showing the "Lone Gun Man" per the Government Theory contrary to what several Witnesses claim?
Anyone taking bets on whether that / those video's will ever be released?
Hmm my bet is a "Plea" deal and NEVER any supporting "Lone Gun Man" evidence to be released!
Here's a good video to watch on the subject from Ben Swan's Reality Check.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZPS7AdgNgE
"Secrecy is the keystone to all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy and censorship. When any government or church for that matter, undertakes to say to its subjects, "This you may not read, this you must not know," the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man who has been hoodwinked in this fashion; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, whose mind is free. No, not the rack nor the atomic bomb, not anything. You can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." ~Robert A. Heinlein
Nobody knows what Obama is except he is a puppet
Vox,
It is also the first time I recall a Righty suggesting a gun actually killed someone!
Exactly where in my post did I say a gun killed someone?
Like the rest of your post you only see and hear what you want,and biased and blind is more like your reality
Wait, let me get this straight, millions of people own guns legally and don't commit a crime, a few do commit a crime and we should take the millions that don't commit a crime there rights away?
How @!$%#ed up is that?
Just as many people die in drunk driving accidents a year, but you crazy mother @!$%#ers don't want to ban drinking or cars.
"The fact is that on the same calendar day as the Newton shootings there was a knife attack at a Chinese school. Although some 20 kids were injured, none died. Their parents will see them grow up."
A few die a year because we live in a free society and you are going to compare us to the Chinese were Mao killed upwards of 70 million.
Wonderful!
The attack Friday in China recalled a spate of fatal attacks by knife and cleaver-wielding culprits targeting school children in 2010. In April that year, Chinese authorities executed a man who killed eight children in a knife attack the month before. There were three more attacks in the same year injuring at least 44 children.
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/15/world/asia/china-us-school-attack/index.html
Weird children die without guns, because of Monsters.
They didn't ban guns, what they did was make the background check system a lot more thorough. The Port Arthur massacre in 1996 was caused by a person who had an extensive history of violent and erratic behavior.
I hope the police took a blood sample to determine if he was on any drugs at the time of the shooting.
The other thing to point about the Port Arthur massacre was that the dealer that sold the guns to the person who committed that massacre did not ask to see his license to own a firearm.
Which eyewitnesses or which theater security camera footage identify Holmes as the shooter unequivocally?!? Oh, that's right, none. So all we have is the word of the police and the media who say they found Holmes at/in (because there are conflicting reports among the authorities) his car outside the back door of the theater. And what of the bloody trail which went more than a hundred feet past his car and ended where a gas mask had been dropped and just disappeared? If it were a victim of the shooting then why would they run out the same door the shooter allegedly came in through and a door no other movie goers were rushing out of and, as Obama tried to lie, why would there be an ambulance on the scene within 90 seconds and park 2 parking lots away in the back of the theater instead of out front with the rest of the emergency responders? I have to call BS on this whole matter and anyone who believes James Holmes was just some random shooter who randomly chose a late night theater crowd to shoot up is just foolish, with their head so deep in the sand wanting, no pleading to be able to trust their police and government and are so frightened of having that security blanket ripped out from over them and fearful that they will have to begin to think for themselves.
"They banned guns in Australia after many massacres, and there hasn't bee once since in over a decade. Go figure!"
Homicides in Australia in 1996 - 354
Homicides in Australia in 2007 - 282
Homicides in Australia in 1999 - 385
How can people die in a homicide without a gun?
Some scholars even credit the 1996 gun law with causing the decrease in deaths from firearms, though they are still debating that point. A 2003 study from AIC, which looked at rates between 1991 and 2001, found that some of the decline in firearm-related homicides (and suicides as well) began before the reform was enacted. On the other hand, a 2006 analysis by scholars at the University of Sydney concluded that gun fatalities decreased more quickly after the reform. Yet another analysis, from 2008, from the University of Melbourne, concluded that the buyback had no significant effect on firearm suicide or homicide rates.
So there’s no consensus about whether the changes decreased gun violence or had little to no effect.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/05/gun-control-in-australia/
Then you have to ask yourself about the "Notebook" the authorities claim was mailed by Holmes to his professor but which sat in the school mailroom for nearly 2 weeks before being discovered and only after the professor notified authorities of another "package" he had received which was not marked with a return address but one that the professor "suspected" was from Holmes yet it turned out to be completely unconnected but it sparked the authorities to thoroughly search the mailroom discovering the 2nd package with the "Notebook" allegedly from Holmes to the professor. I am sure the DA will attempt to use that notebook as the key piece of evidence by which they convict Holmes. My, how convenient that they found it.
Hello folks, why don't the the presstitutes report all the murders we perpetrate on other countries and where are the progressives regarding the hundreds of thousands of children killed by our country in our name?
Consider the Sandy Hook school shooting. This shooting serves as an excuse for anti gun lobbyists to express their hatred of guns and the NRA and to advance their gun control agenda. Few if any of those hyperventilating over the tragedy know any of the parents of the murdered children. They have shown no similar response to the US government’s murder of countless thousands of Muslim children. The Clinton regime alone killed 500,000 Iraqi children with illegal sanctions, and Clinton’s immoral secretary of state Madeleine Albright, a feminist hero, said that she thought the sanctions were worth the cost of one half million dead Iraqi children.
Suddenly, 20 US children become of massive importance to “progressives.” Why? Because the deaths foster their agenda–gun control in the US.
When I hear people talk about “gun violence,” I wonder what has happened to language. A gun is an inanimate object. An inanimate object cannot cause violence. Humans cause violence. The relevant question is: why do humans cause violence? This obvious question seldom gets asked. Instead, inanimate objects are blamed for the actions of humans.
This is largely true. The problem is that firearms in general are usually a high quality durable good due to the nature of what they are, and modern ones made during the past half century are virtually always so. Inexpensive 'Saturday Night Special' types of handguns and some very inexpensive hardware store grade rifles and shotguns did at least tend to wear out and become unserviceable after a moderate period of use, usually when a part broke, replacements were not available, and the cost to have a gunsmith fabricate and fit a part exceeded the value of the gun itself. Effectively banning inexpensive firearms left only high quality ones on the market, which before long became most of what criminals had access to. Quality firearms will usually last longer than the original purchaser will. They end up somewhere - either they're sold to a dealer, sold at an auction, passed to heirs, or sometimes they just seem to 'disappear' and no one knows just where they went. And, yes, they are much sought after by burglars. Unfortunately, many people who originally purchase a firearm or otherwise come into possession of one are not 'gun people'. They may very well never actually use the gun, or use it only very little shortly after purchasing it, and do not recognize or seem to care that it could fall into the wrong hands or what could result from that. Casual gun ownership is a real problem. Anyone who keeps one needs to be 100% serious about it. Merely pushing a gun aside and forgetting about it when one loses interest in it usually leads to something bad sooner or later.
It could have been just as many, or maybe more, depending on what he did. I won't give any examples, lest anyone get an idea, because it isn't that tough to do for someone who thinks outside of the box a little bit. Let's just say that it would generally involve some types of chemicals that I won't specify and it would probably involve igniting something. It seldom happens in the US, but internationally there are a startling number of incidents where mass casualties result from tramplings and other injuries when a large number of people concentrated in an area attempt to flee something they fear. With a shooting, some people will try to get down or take cover. When something very unpleasant is released into the air, everyone heads for the doors and inevitably someone will start to try climbing over the people in front of them to escape whatever it is. Anyone who is knocked down is probably doomed, but people have been pushed against walls and crushed, too. If what is released is merely frightening and unpleasant, the casualties will be limited to trampling and the like. If what is released is toxic, those not through the door immediately will probably be affected very badly. Given that the perpetrator of the Aurora theater killings was a graduate student knowledgeable enough in chemistry to have concocted a number of improvised explosive devices in his apartment, whatever weapon he could use in his crime at the theater was pretty much limited to his imagination.
Originally. Consider, however, that firearms have long been sold as 'sporting goods', most of which have evolved from tools designed to kill. A ball, as used in many sports, is simply an evolution of the common rock, which was first thrown at another human in anger at roughly the same time a handy length of stout tree branch was utilized as a club. The boomerang and yo-yo are well known examples of what we now consider toys but were originally designed to kill. All vehicles with wheels are an evolution of the chariot, which, like many other things, was actually built as a weapon of war first and adapted to civil uses later. Trying to prevail in or at least survive battle has always had a way of pressing abstract ideas and designs on paper into reality, designs that while otherwise useful would be a luxury in daily life. The Latin word for 'chariot' is carrus, and a war chariot was known as a car. Sound familiar to anyone?
I think the one constant that remains true in all mass killings still applies here. He may very well be genuinely mentally ill, but more importantly, he was ANGRY. What he was angry about and why he chose to deal with it the way he did would be where his mental health comes into question, but he didn't DO it because he was crazy. Crazy people do crazy things, and what makes those things crazy is that they don't seem to make any sense or they defy logic. Crazy things are usually fairly harmless, though they can be negligent, they're just weird things most people wouldn't do. Trying to hurt and kill as many people as possible is something predictable from a very angry person. If he was just crazy, he might have taken off his clothes and started dancing in front of everyone or taken the opportunity to attempt the start of a career as a stand-up comedian. I've never known truly crazy people who have ever been able to plan something and carry it out; they either do things randomly with no real forethought or they'll start to plan something (more like fantasize about it) and move on to something else shortly thereafter.
The average person isn't likely to put an effective bomb together. Unfortunately, this guy wasn't average, not by a long shot. He was able to create enough bombs in his apartment to create real headaches for the authorities who had to deal with them. Of course, the average person doesn't commit mass killings in the first place...
There have been a dozen or so mass killings in the past century in Australia. A number of them have been bombings, a few were arson fires in densely occupied structures, one involved a truck driver deliberately crashing his truck into a crowded hotel. one was done partly with a large knife, and the remainder are fairly unremarkable save for a biker gang shootout in the early 80's and the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre which something like a cross between Charles Whitman in 1966 and Howard Unruh in 1949. Despite the ban on all autoloading and pump action repeating firearms, there has been a long standing gang war around Melbourne involving dozens of murders since the late 1990's. For having developed from a penal colony and despite the reputation such gave Australia within the British commonwealth for a good long time, the Australians are fairly well civilized and just don't have the crime and social problems like parts of the United States has.
The reason this bears out statistically is because they only look at the numbers of people who merely possess guns in their household, they don't adjust for people who are serious users of firearms. A lot of people who just have guns 1) have very little experience in the handling or use of firearms, and next to no knowledge of firearms, including the one(s) currently in their possession. This is especially true in urban areas where few opportunities exist to legitimately discharge a firearm! 2) acquired them in the first place for nefarious reasons, either in connection with a criminal lifestyle or with intent to eventually use their firearm as a homicide weapon 3) purchased their gun and some ammunition on a whim and never bothered to study, train, or incorporate their gun into a developed security or emergency plan of action, or 4) the gun was an inheritance or otherwise just 'left' to them and they don't really care about it except for when it becomes 'useful', like when they think someone is breaking in (even if just a family member coming home late) or when they get angry and remember that they've got a gun available that can be used as a weapon with which to terrorize or murder someone with.
The vast majority of 'gun problems' in the US come from criminals, novices, and ignorants who do not fully understand or appreciate what a firearm is really for or the damage it can do when misused. The serious users very seldom misuse firearms, nor to do they leave them unsecured. They also generally do not live in high crime urban areas in the first place, but more suburban and rural locations where they can actually go somewhere to get their guns out and use them from time to time...maybe even on their own land!
I keep reading all of the comments about pro-gun vs anti-gun and it really ticks me off with the excuses that the pro-gun and NRA keep giving. "Guns dont kill people, people kill people". As far as I can see people with guns are the ones killing people. The gun itself doesnt jump off the shelf and kill someone all by itself. Then it is the cry of the "Second Ammendment" and the right to bear arms. Nowhere have I seen that the government is going to go door to door and remove any and all firearms from you people. What is wanted is better gun control such as background checks, limiting types of guns than can be purchased for defence in the home, regulating clips with a large number of rounds, licensing of firearms etc. And if someone really wants to own a gun they should not have any problems with these laws. We have them here in Canada and our murder rate with a gun is about 150 people a year. So I am not buying the fact that gun control doesnt work. But what I really really cant understand is your absolute love of guns therefore wanting to own several of them not just one for defence. Is it paranoia that you people suffer from. We dont pack guns here - in all my years on this earth I have never seen or known one person that packs a gun. There it seems to be the norm. Are you honestly that fearful of being shot at that you cannot even leave the house without one or more. I thank God everyday that we are not a gun toting society here. We feel safe in our homes and on the streets - people love to hunt here and they purchase their rifles legally and keep them locked in a cabinet with no ammo in them until they want to use them. We have strict gun control laws but we have strict laws for licensing a car and getting your drivers license too cause both can kill. It is all in the name of safety and people just do it - they dont feel they need to fight to their death to be able to own a gun or rifle. I guess I will never understand your thinking and I have read it from a mixture of people always rhyming off the same retoric. "guns dont kill people, people kill people." All I know for sure is that 20 babies and some adults were masacred (that is what it was) and their families couldnt even view them to say good-bye and that is cause some mental case acquired assault guns with clips that could kill 20 babies in less than a minute - and for me that can never be justified.
You Canadians are funny - already lost your rights so would like to see us lose ours as well. Registration leads to confiscation - keep your thoughts regarding gun control on YOUR side of the border.
From the boneheads at the NRA
How has an idiotic remark like that survived so long? The people who repeat this moronism over and over and over and over and ...... well you get the point ...... seem to be laboring under the false assumption that those of us who believe in legislating stricter gun responsibility are trying to regulate guns. Absurd. We want to regulate the behavior of people regarding guns.
Most guns are initially purchased legally, yet are in the hands of people who should not have guns. In addition to the mass murders, which is quite a small percentage of our very large number of gun deaths each year, criminals and mentally ill people kill lots of people every year, including themselves (there are more firearm suicides than homicides every year0
What should this tell us?:
These are reasonable responsibilities that do not take away the right of gun ownership for responsible citizens. These regulations would certainly not stop all gun violence; they would not even threaten our leadership in gun deaths among developed nations. But they would be a step in the right direction.
These anti gun arguments are so tired.
Conservatives get stuck with the crazy redneck stereotype. Liberals try to claim the intellectual high ground, and look down their noses at the uneducated masses.
This is where my problem comes in. You can't be anti-gun, and claim the intellectual high ground. There have been numerous of gun laws over the years, and NONE of them have ever effected crime/murder rates, either positively, or negatively.
The statistics, and facts are NOT on your side.
Will you Gun Control Freaks just give it up? Disarming America ain't going to happen and at the least you risk the Law Of Unintended Consequences!
Oh well pushing their Agenda is more important than our Defense of Tyranny which considering the Wall Street Corporations Buying Off Our Politicians and Supreme Court Members you would think "They" would be the First to defend the Constitution of the United States and Our Bill Of Rights.....Not the LAST!
Especially since only the Second Amendment means anything any more!
Hmm maybe we need to coral them into Free Speech Zones after searching their homes and phones without warrant and putting them into Indefinite Detention Camps with Out Trial?
I mean if all the "Gun Control Freaks" care about is the Corporations Rights......
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” ~Robert A. Heinlein
Hello Shar, where is your sympathy for all the children Canada has killed and abused. According to Wikipedia Canada sent “About a hundred Canadian exchange officers, on exchange to American units, participated in the invasion of Iraq” and were involved in Afghanistan where thousands of innocent men, women and children were killed.
Canada is also the home of serious violations of the human rights of Aboriginal women and girls. Canada has admitted to forcing 150,000 aboriginal children into ghastly residential schools where they were abused sexually, psychologically, and physically.
Those who live in glass houses, you know the rest.
Spencer and MUW
Here's a news flash for you. I am not anti-gun. I am for legislating stricter gun responsibility. Do you have a problem with gun responsibility?
ENOUGH ABOUT THE DAMN GUNS!
Yeah, I'm pro-gun. Yeah I own assault rifles. YES I am a LAW ABIDING gun owner. Yeah I, like MANY other people have the knowledge to make explosives. YES I think the laws regarding gun purchase need to be a LOT tighter.
And YEAH, a lot of people died that day, a lot more were wounded, and a whole LOT of lives were altered for the worse, AND THAT IS WHAT SHOULD MATTER!
If you want to argue gun control go make a Facebook page about it, post the link here, and have the debate THERE. The victims and families of victims don't need US arguing and carrying on when they are STILL SUFFERING. Christ! Do ANY Of you care that these people read this stuff too? They don't need to click in here and see "GUN NUTS ARE ALL NEANDERTHAL IDIOTS" and the other side yelling about prying things from their "COLD DEAD FINGERS".
To those families, those victims, I am so sorry for your loss and suffering. It will not bring them back or heal their bodies and minds faster, but my wife and I will pray that justice is done here. God Bless You All.
Praying is unlikely to change anything except the way you feel about yourself. Regulations concerning responsibilities for gun owners might actually accomplish something.
People who think that anti-guns laws would have prevented this- are just wrong.
Anyone out of their mind enough to commit these crimes WILL find a way - GUN OR NOT.
You can choose to the blame the "gun" - but the gun is NOT at fault. The person(s) committing the crime is at fault. You can justify / blame the gun in any direction you choose - but you are still wrong in your thinking, just as you think those who are pro-guns are.
So, many can agree to disagree. More anti-gun laws will NEVER fix this problem.
Planes, used in the World Trade Center - killing thousands. Was there an outcry to ban planes? Was t the planes fault? Nope
Bombs / Ryder Truck used in OK Bombing. Was there an outcry to ban Ryder Trucks? Was it the trucks fault? Nope
Be realistic.
Look closely at every mass murderer and you will find one thing in common - sadly they are crazy in the head.
The media will not talk about this one issue. Why?
Nothing has been said about this guy's upbringing. Why?
Look closely at every mass murder and you will find one thing in common - sadly they had a gun that we should have prevented them from having
The NRA and most gun owners will not talk about this one issue. Why?
Nothing has been said about stronger rules regarding gun responsibility. Why?
The story you will not see on MSNBC!!!!!!! Georgia Mother Shoots Intruder To Protect her Children.
Ex-Con Paul Ali Slater was shot six times after forcing his way into the home of a Georgia Mother protecting her 9 year old twins. This occurred during the middle of the day and even though the police were called the intruder still forced his way in.
Moral to the Story: A gun in hand is better than a Cop on the phone.
P.S. The obama voter is expected to survive so you can be sure he will sue.
Well that's a lovely story. However, you fail to realize that scenario is quite the rarity and composes less than 1% of all homicides by firearms.
Moreover, comparing that scenario to what happened in Aurora and Newtown is like comparing apples and bowling balls. The argument is not about possession of firearms in the home (although you NRA kool-aid drinking fools like to spin it that way)...the argument is about large capacity magazines and rapid fire assault weapons that have no purpose for being in the hands of the general populace.
The fact that we have over 11,000 homicides per year in a supposedly "developed and civilized nation under rule of law" is ridiculous to anyone with a sane mind. To discuss how we attempt to curtail such an alarming fact without including firearms in the discussion is like not including cigarettes in a discussion about how to lower the death rate by lung cancer.
And before you start foaming at the mouth with the typical "liberal, anti-gun, bla bla bla" response, I'm a combat vet and have over a dozen firearms locked in a safe in my house. I'm not the least bit afraid the government is going to confiscate them.
DSP - CAPT/USNR
Leave the gun,
Obama signed the day after the election a global gun ban Treaty with the UN,so please don't tell us the Gov is not after our guns,It is a fact that's exactly what Obama and his Puppet masters pulling his strings are after.
interesting comparison, The govt. stepped in to "help" there and smoking was banned practically everywhere under the guise of course that it was for our own good and the substantial savings in health care and insurance. hence our cost's went down on both right............?
and a capt? did you attend the firearm training in Newport, where a sailor from Iowa doing his last 3 months in uncle sugars canoe club, was assigned the dauntingly oft impossible task of teaching "officers" how to handle weapons? that was me. i was absolutely amazed daily by the "collage dweebs" who had absolutely no idea whatsoever how to use a firearm. and in many cases didn't understand.... "why in heavens sake they had to learn such things in the first place".....when i pointed out to them that they were in the military and a firearm...just might....come in handy most scoffed..... everyday that we came off the range and some nitwit hadn't blown his or someone Else's foot off was a good day.....True story.
Rational= Leave the gun
Brainwashed= Ster2
Morning, Scooter -
I'm off in a little while to get another rifle while supplies last. Thinking about a handgun since I'm riding further through the woods lately and the coyotes are running in packs. One shot in the air sends them running but a handgun is less cumbersome than the rifle and a small pack of wild dogs has been seen in the area.
Guess what? I'm buying the handgun through a private source. One thing an Indian learns is never to trust the government when it says it's here to help you... just ask Geronimo.... or Sitting Bull... or Crazy Horse...
Canolli
Thank you for your service ( if your claim is true) however my oath was to the Constitution of the United States. You are right, gun control is an issue but your ridiculous claim that the story i posted is a rarity is a false one as you are well aware.
I am certain as an officer in Uncle Sam's Canoe Club that at one or another the issue of personal responsibility and accountability was also an issue, or did you not trust your personnel. If you ever received your SWO pin then I am certain at one time or another the C.O. went to sleep with you at the watch even though he would be held accountable.
This ridiculous notion that the issue is simply about weapons is as simplistic as our current economic policy. So answer this.. why is the homicide rate different in other developed nation's that allow private ownership of weapons. Why is the murder rate and homicide rate so high in Mexico, Chicago and Detroit that do not allow or heavily restrict ownership of weapons.
Lastly, unless you were a NAVY SEAL stop with the combat veteran crap. The U.S. has not been involved in a naval engagement since WWII. Trust me, I served twenty three years and the only shot in anger I ever faced was fired by a jealous husband (joke there.) and regardless of your rank I can almost guarantee I have more time on the pond than you. The advantage I had was because of my NEC all of my officers and superiors were select individuals.
So you are a Captain in the Naval Reserve. So was the U.S.S. Cain's C.O., Captain Quig. Did you ever prove who was behind the Strawberry Incident?
GM Scremin.
Good idea's all around. I might suggest a revolver in that case scenario. .357 it makes for a good report, is reliable and the cartridge is interchangeable with a rifle. less stuff to pack on the horse. but i bet you already considered that.
Kaybee= Obama Kool-Aid drinker :)
The Georgia mother tried to avoid using the gun.
She heard the man banging on her door and called her husband while taking the children and hiding in the closet. At the same time, she also took her Smith & Wesson.
But she didn't hesitate to shoot him when he jerked open the closet door and reached for her. That's how most home owners with guns are killed with their own weapons. They hesitate to use it, not wanting to hurt another human.
Actually most die with out any intruder at all.
Protection or peril? An analysis of firearm-related deaths in the home.
Kellermann AL, Reay DT.
Abstract
To study the epidemiology of deaths involving firearms kept in the home, we reviewed all the gunshot deaths that occurred in King County, Washington (population 1,270,000), from 1978 through 1983. The medical examiner's case files were supplemented by police records or interviews with investigating officers or both, to obtain specific information about the circumstances, the scene of the incident, the type of firearm involved, and the relationship of the suspect to the victim. A total of 743 firearm-related deaths occurred during this six-year period, 398 of which (54 percent) occurred in the residence where the firearm was kept. Only 2 of these 398 deaths (0.5 percent) involved an intruder shot during attempted entry. Seven persons (1.8 percent) were killed in self-defense. For every case of self-protection homicide involving a firearm kept in the home, there were 1.3 accidental deaths, 4.6 criminal homicides, and 37 suicides involving firearms. Hand-guns were used in 70.5 percent of these deaths. The advisability of keeping firearms in the home for protection must be questioned.
notrocketscience-503001
Actually, Kellerman's "study" has been debunked by many researchers as not being properly researched. One of them was Edgar A. Suter MD, National Chair, Doctors for Integrity In Policy Research, Inc., San Ramon, CA.
There are many others who agreed with the debunking of Kellerman's study. Kellerman was the only one who conducted the "study."
Limited subjects, limited interviews, limited grounds for conclusions, a biased anti-gun proponent. Flawed research
Debunked by gun rights activities, no doubt. Can't find any credible sources on the net that criticize it.
Here's another for you.
Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
+ Author Affiliations
1. 1 Division of Violence Prevention, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA. 2. 2 Epidemiology Program Office, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA. 3. 3 Office of Statistics and Programming, National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Atlanta, GA.
Next Section
Abstract
Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.
Leave the gun, take the cannoli:
Gun violence is on the way down, gun violence has been cut in half since 1992 and since 2007 gun violence as a grand total including death by homicide and suicide is down by nearly 15%.
Semi-automatic firearms and magazines that exceed 10 rounds do serve a purpose in civilian hands and that is to form a militia. The 2nd amendment is about firearms that serve the purpose of militias. The 2nd amendment is not about target shooting or hunting.
Why did Holmes take two protective masks(gas masks) to the theater? How was he able to be in two locations at once? He must have access to some serious technology...some of that alien chit...or there was another. You decide.
How in the world did they think he could be a fellow officer with that hair???
Why don't the the presstitutes report all the murders we perpetrate on other countries and where are the progressives regarding the hundreds of thousands of children killed by our country in our name?
Consider the Sandy Hook school shooting. This shooting serves as an excuse for anti gun lobbyists to express their hatred of guns and the NRA and to advance their gun control agenda. Few if any of those hyperventilating over the tragedy know any of the parents of the murdered children. They have shown no similar response to the US government’s murder of countless thousands of Muslim children. The Clinton regime alone killed 500,000 Iraqi children with illegal sanctions, and Clinton’s immoral secretary of state Madeleine Albright, a feminist hero, said that she thought the sanctions were worth the cost of one half million dead Iraqi children.
Suddenly, 20 US children become of massive importance to “progressives.” Why? Because the deaths foster their agenda–gun control in the US.
When I hear people talk about “gun violence,” I wonder what has happened to language. A gun is an inanimate object. An inanimate object cannot cause violence. Humans cause violence. The relevant question is: why do humans cause violence? This obvious question seldom gets asked. Instead, inanimate objects are blamed for the actions of humans.
Afternoon Trust...
Asking for logic and reason from a progressive liberal is like asking the current president to stop spending money he doesn't have. Neither will ever happen.
Three things:
1. What the hell does this have to do with the article about James Holmes.
2. Instead of constantly trying to bait people, try using a little class.
3. What makes you think the man voted for Obama? ( Your answer will tell a lot about you).
Just like expecting a progressive puppet to understand that the POTUS doesn't control spending and telling the same puppet that Congress does, is like ....expecting a puppet to think for itself.Neither will ever happen.
Hello folks, let me preface my comments by saying I’m a political atheist, I don’t care what political religion one wants to attach themselves to.
According to FBI.gov statistics not those from a lobbying group who advocate policy.
Since 1992 Violent crime is down 50% the Murder rate is down 54%.
Violent crime rate - In 1992 = 757 per 100,000, Murder rate of 9.3 per 100,000.
Let’s see which direction we’re going in!
Violent crime rate - In 2011 = 386 per 100,000 a 50% reduction.
Murder rate of 4.7 per 100,000 a 54% reduction.
Why isn’t the Media reporting the considerable improvement in violent crime?
The key to improving these numbers further is to isolate where the violent crime is being committed.
In Metropolitan US areas where the population is more than 250,000 the violent crime rate is double. The murder rate is double the national average. You can dissect the information down to the neighborhoods. In other words if our government wants to target violent crime and murder they know exactly where the majority of the violent crime is occurring. Instead of spreading fear, they can put action plans into place to reduce violent crime.
According to the Home Office Statistical Bulletin (England’s and Wales version of the FBI) where gun ownership is tightly controlled by law, have put out the enclosed statistics.
England and Wales population is 56 million.
Violent crime = 762,515
Violent crime ratio per 100,000 = 1,361. This is 3 and half times that of the US. Therefore, fewer guns don’t equal less violent crime.
In the US we have 186 metropolitan areas with a population of 250K and England has 32 metropolitan areas with 250K. We have 6 times more metropolitan areas then England and less violent crime.
In 2011 of all the homicides committed by firearms only 3.5% were committed with rifles and the AR15 is only a subset of the rifle group.
We know where the violent crime is being committed and it is in the urban impoverished areas. If we truly want to address the violent crime issues we need to go into these areas and provide more jobs and a better educational system.
The NRA gets a dollar from the gun shops every time they sell a gun. Way to go, NRA! You just keep on buying Congress until every man, woman and child is armed to the teeth.
Enough is enough, you a$$holes! We can't take anymore killings. . .
Navyvet- But that was with a 6-shot revolver, not an assault rifle. The gun ban that was introduced banned assault weapons, not hand guns.
Is there anyone here that has any doubt that if someone is bat@!$%# crazy, it's this guy?
It's horrible what he did but I think we need more understanding and controls for people with severe mental illness than gun controls.
You don't need an assault rifle to murder a bunch of people, just creativity. He just picked the most convenient method.
Why isn't anyone wondering what's making university students crack and go on shooting rampages?
As always the fools are distracted from the truth by the media. Why do we know what type of weapon he used and not what kind of drugs he was taking for his Illness???????????????
You want safety and security stop allowing the pharmaceutical companies to poison kids minds, stop the government incentive program to do so!
Ster2-you had better do a little reading before you make such an absurd statement which is an outright lie.The treaty has to do with gun exports, not gun sales. Now you sound like a real cracker. "The guvment out to take my gun."
One thing about it, magazines are getting hard to find, people have bought them up. The wholesale market is for the most part on backorder until production can catch up with demand. The materials are still available in quantity, carbon steel, billet aluminum alloys, are readily available, as are most parts. Ok, so we do away with every gun? Ever hear of sarin? Ingredients are readily available, simple to make, and can be introduced into most commercial HVAC systems unnoticed. If someone wants to kill people, they don't need a gun, there are many other methods.
Sounds like it was a good thing that the Georgia mom had a .38 revolver that held five bullets with her in the closet. So, she did not need an assault rifle or magazine clip that shoots hundreds of rounds to protect herself and her children.
Nor does anyone.
Thank goodness new gun laws are coming.
Head hunter,
Less than 24 hours after winning re-election, the Obama's administration joined with China, France, Germany and the United Kingdom, and more than 150 other governments, in supporting renewed debate on the proposed United Nations arms trade treaty, confirming the worst fears of the American gun rights community," said the founder of SAF, which was in 1974, and which has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control.
"Just days ago as he campaigned for re-election," he csaid. "Barack Obama told his supporters that voting is the 'best revenge.' I guess now we know what he was talking about. The revenge he seeks is against American gun owners and their Second Amendment rights."
"The election was called about 11 p.m. Tuesday and by 11 a.m. this morning, we got word that the United States was supporting this resolution. We have to be more vigilant in our efforts to stop this proposed treaty," he said.
The vote came at the U.N. General Assembly's meeting of the First Committee on Disarmament at the world organization's headquarters in New York City.
According to a State Department webpage devoted to the Arms Trade Treaty, the Obama administration strongly supports the treaty potential.
The First Committee on Disarmament in NY City.....mabe you should read more,you BIGGOT.
He should be relaxed, he didnt do it. This guy was drugged. Did you see him at his 1st hearing? Of course he was drugged, they didnt want him blurting out the fact that he was poisoned. WHO do we know that has perfected the manchurian candidate syndrome? These drugs are continually tested. Some units sent to Irak and Afghanistan were drugged. The government thought they had them deprogrammed but when they got home they killed their wives. ASK yourself why has the information about this crime been coming so slowly? We need transparency in government. It keeps them from trying to do things like this, JFK, RFK, MLK, Okla. City bombing, Waco, 9-11.
As long as they have the power to cover up crimes they will commit crimes. Immediate 3rd party testing of criminals would go a long way in determining if they were drugged or not. Holmes was kept under wraps for 3 days before he saw a real lawyer doctor or anyone from his family. This gave them time for the drugs to leave his system to the point they couldn't be detected.
Why would the Illuminati/CIA do this? They always try to instill fear among us whenever possible but these latest attacks are directed at total gun confiscation. They always create the problem then offer the solution.
Ster2 ...
Like Fox News, you are taking the comment about "Voting is the best revenge" out of context.
The President, as everyone knows, was responding to the booing that some of his supporters were doing when Mitt Romney was mentioned. The President asked the crowd not to boo, but to vote because "voting is the best revenge."
Poor choice of words? Perhaps, but everyone knew what he meant.
At least he did not encourage booing and hate-rhetoric like Romney/Ryan did.
So, go cradle your arsenal and dream about stockpiling more weapons. New gun laws are coming.
What is truely disturbing is the lack of actual investigative reporting on this induvidual. We still have no information on the family, friends, groups, or associates of this iduvidual. Just a theory I will submit...he was a left-wing activist and therefore immune to any real reporting by the media. Case in point, the Sikh Temple shooting and Trevon Martin incedents. In both cases we were flooded with information on the backgrounds, family, and associates of the shooter within days and the coverage lasted for weeks. However, this case along with the Sandy Hook and most recently the Village coulple (although they had not actually carried out the plot, they were OWS and had explosives and illegal firearms) warrants very little coverage on the persons of interest or thier connections. Instead, they focus on the inanimate object (the firearm) and the millions of legal owners who are law abiding citizens. Once you mentally digest that rational, if you can't see the disparity in logic then you are one who chooses to be ignorant.
AK Sabin,
I can't say about the case of the village couple, but with the Sandy Hook shooter, some of the news media like CNN intentionally did not mention the murderer or much about him because they did not want to give someone like that any attention. Apparently, there are many mentally ill people who kill for attention only.
James Holmes will also be “very relaxed” the day he is given a lethal injection.
This whole thing smells of BS and there are way to many things that don't add up with what we are being told.
Why was ther a 2nd gas mask found well away from where Holmes was but also in the area of where police reported another suspect running? Can hear it in the scanner tape
Why are there numerous reports eye witness reports of smoke bombs being thrown from 2 different directions in the theater?
Why are there also numerous eye witness reports of a man sitting in front receiving a phone call then going to emergency exit door and waving someone over?
Why would holme be so "out of touch" and just standing there when cops arrive and still being drugged out of his mind then next day? Maybe scopolamine (Devil's Breath) or similar.
Why would he spend all the time and money wiring/booby trapping his apartment with bombs that the FBI said was so susfisticated that it took them 2 days to disarm and remove? Makes no sense unless he is a patsie
Will we ever see any of the video from surrounding and theater cameras or will this also be like the Pentagon, what's to hide?
These questions and so many more make me second quess what we are being told.
PS: There also happened to be a training scenario at Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine (minutes away from shooting) that same day to train students and staff how to respond if a shooter fires on people in a movie theater and also uses gas or bombs in the attack.
The
irony is amazing, just amazing," said Rocky Vista Dean Dr. Bruce
Dubin
The last execution by Colorado was more than 35 years ago. He will be with us for a looooooong time, especially since we do not execute crazy people.
Silverton,
At least he did not encourage booing and hate-rhetoric like Romney/Ryan did.
Really? I think you have that backwards,He** some of Dems Boo'd God....Literally!! At their Conventions,When did that become Kool to those kids??<
And bad choice of words? I don't know...I believe the VP has him beat by far lol even you have to admit that,and yes mostly it's just word vomit but geez that guy....
Obama supporters are the ones always saying Obama says what he means and means what he says,I guess I'll give that one to them on this one.
And I never said I had guns,And I sure as He** wouldn't tell anybody.
And I'll cradle my spouse and dream of the day when the left and Anyone else can get along and Not have all their American Rights threatened by either or any side,because In order for us to keep our Rights and freedoms,We have to work together,I may not like what you stand for but if its in the Constitution Ill fight for it with you,And I would hope you would do the same for me,wether or not you like or agree with me.
Still haven't seen a rational comment from the gun nut crowd. Not since Tucson, Aurora, and certainly not coming out of Newtown.
You are a scary lot and I have over 35 years of self defense training. Bunch of paranoid whimps.
As for these purported unreported acts of self defense. Is there no right wing media? My God, come down here to the South and read some of the crapola printed in these local papers about Obama! Right wing media is hardly starving for readership. It just doesn't provide much anything of worth. Most of it is not journalism, it's hatespeech like Limbaugh and Beck. But these so-called unreported incidents are usually BS because you can also check the police reports and find nothing. Oh sure it's all a conspiracy. Get some help!
Someone keeps bringing that rag, the Conservative Chronicle, and leaving them around my gym. Its best use would be as a cat box liner. Brent Bozell, Michelle Malkin, Dick Morris, it's just filled with hatespeech, not journalism. This is a paper that views the likes of Phyllis Schlafly as a great American heroine, not a wacko extremist as she has always been. Thankfully only about 20% of America is this far off their rockers. But there is a heavy concentration in certain areas.
We see the America the Right desires and it is a very disturbing place. For the few, not the many.
I believe that, in some, if not most cases, the death penalty is appropriate. Even the Bible invokes "an eye for an eye". If a person simply refuses to abide by the basic tenants of civility agreed upon implicitly or explicitly by the members of a civilization, and proves themselves to be a threat to all others. they should be excluded - rather than be the dependent and guest of those they've harmed or killed.
Mental illness is certainly a factor. One must also keep in mind that most of us choose to not attack, rape or murder our neighbors. We all have the impulses to do these things at times, but suppress and/or discard these impulses as nonsense or irresponsibility.
Some of us do choose to victimize our neighbors - we simply, consciously, adopt a different set of behavioral values. I don't consider this 'insanity" or "mental illness" - in most cases, we simply choose to victimize our neighbors. Being cruel and/or ruthless isn't necessarily being insane.
Taking an eye for an eye does not result in ending a life; presumably, the offensive one still has another with which to see. No one has the right to terminate the life of another being, human or animal - no right to become an executioner.
What? What!? It would never, ever occur to me to attack, rape or murder one of my neighbors!! I'm thrilled that I don't live wherever you do. You sound like a very creepy person.
The biblical phrase is most often used to express the concept of a penalty equal to the offense.
I suppose all of us throughout history that have eaten any animal tissue fall below your level of sophistication. A very exclusive club you apparently belong to.
I'm thrilled as well. "We" was used as a pejorative to indicate those that do have these impulses - clearly many, not all, of us do. This a little obtuse for your scope?
Creepy? Never heard anyone in my 65 years even suggest that to be the case.....only you.
Attach a .357 mag Ruger to his f@cking head and his detachment issues will be resolved when the trigger is pulled.
I think with just his look he could get a good job in DC, cabinet slot might work for him.
Now that he is finally properly medicated, that might not be out of the realm of possibilities. He is so relaxed because his emotions are turned off by heavy medications, and probably doesn't even remember his atrocities. You have to turn off your compassionate emotions to control, take away freedoms, enviromentally over regulate the job creators so no one can get a job, and freeviously spend the hard earned taxes of the American people, so Washington could be a good fit for this murderer. Because the Gays, Abortiionists, and unbaided Hollywood disrespect for human life is assassinating the civility and morality of our society. Don't tell me that the Jersey Shore alchoholic debauchery and sexual excploitations of young women has no affect on our youth's train of thought, and that is just one example of many. Small town in Ohio should be a demostration of the symptoms that is going to plague our future generations.
MNJL170. He's got the credentials. He's a people person and he graduated from villainova. He could be the head of the department of the carrot.
Sick, man. Grow up.
Ban handguns and assault weapons.
Ban PSYCHOTROPIC DRUGS.
Both Holmes and Lanza were on psychotropic drugs that causes a person to have suicidal and homicidal thoughts and fantasies.
So you're in favor of making it easier for the killer by handing him a gun, are you?
That's a very passive attitude you've got there. Do you tell your 16-year-old daughter that she's going to have sex with her boyfriend anyway, so they might as well just use her bed?
Death Penalty
and in a mere 40 years or so it MAY be carried out. assuming of course the laws remain the same. and the ACLU and a bunch of libs don't change em back and forth. ......IE; CA.
Hang. Draw. Quarter. Publically.
Damned the ACLU (American Communist Lovers Union), if they want to keep him alive for the rest of his natural life, let them foot the bill and not the tax-payers.
The cute thing is he'll be adjudged insane for about 20 years and then all of a sudden he's no longer insane and some bleeding heart lawyer will get him sprung from mental hospital just like the man that shot Pres. Reagan. In case you didn't know he now gets weekend visits with his parents. I suspect in another year or so he'll be totally freed and will once again attempt to assisinate another president.
I, for one, would like to see him proved guilty first it that's alright with all of you judge/jury and executioners who were right there when he opened fire and saw him do the whole thing from beginning to end. Oh, wait, what's that you say, there are no witnesses who actually saw him shooting, there is no security camera footage that shows him as the one rushing into and then back out of the theater at the back door where his car was parked. So all we have is circumstantial evidence and the claims of the police who found him at/in (because even the authorities are mixed up in their stories) his car and a trail of blood splatters that led more than a hundred feet past his car and disappeared at a point where a gas mask had been dropped. And before you try to say that was the blood trail of the one victim Obama claimed had been carried out and carried across 2 parking lots to a waiting ambulance ask yourself, why would anyone in their right mind carry a victim out the same door that the shooter allegedly came through instead of carrying the victim out the main doors like all the other movie goers were doing and to the awaiting emergency responders at the front of the theater, and why is an ambulance, that is responding to the scene, going to the back of the theater and parking nearly 100 yards away as Obama tried to claim in HIS version of the story, attempting to explain the blood trail which is clearly from a leg or foot wound, not a neck wound as he tried to claim it being from the female victim he visited in the hospital, and, since it disappeared at the point where a 2nd gas mask was dropped, it is hard to explain it as a victim of the shooter at all and more likely an accidental, self-inflicted wound. So yeah, before you media lap dog witch-hunters convict and put this man to death, I'd like to see if we can't find out the real story.
Todd: No one wants to do any extra research. They just read the articles on the vine. If they searched hard enough they'd see the photos of the back of the theater. This is one rigged case.
I think there are least three of us on here that really cares what happened and the rest only want to know what Obama and the press want them to believe. There are a few like us also concerned for the victims and care to have the whole story for the sake of all of us. I don't believe for one minute that we have or will ever hear the truth about what really went down as long as we are under this administration or any administration that is agreeable with this one.
Pat,
"I think there are least three of us on here that really cares what happened and the rest only want to know what Obama and the press want them to believe."
Why do so many people want to blame everything bad that happens in this country on Obama? Obama is not the Devil, you know. He really isn't! And, contrary to what you might believe, he doesn't control the news media either. Stop demonizing him already.
A mentally ill person committed a crime because he was not under a doctors care and on the medicine that he needed to be on.Yet,here we have posters with conspiracy theories,gun ownership rights in the U.S.,stabbings in China,Obama being involved in the conspiracy cover up and the median being involved in the cover up.It amazes me how people can drum up so many subjects out of the actions of one untreated mentally ill person who shot up a movie theater which caused innocent people their lives.I don't see any of you advocating for the mentally ill.This could have been avoided if not for the lack of mental health care in America.
The irrational paranoia is knee deep here, CIA plot, Obama did it, drugs and distorted news stories ....gees! Is there any one out there that is NORMAL?? Scary bunch! We haven't read one yet saying the little green men from Mars did it as an experiment, but that has to be next. We had a crazy young man who went beserk and for what ever set him off, shot up a theater full of people. No, anyone that crazy should NOT have had access to ANY weapons of ANY sort. Having knowledge of a paraniod, schicophrenic man there is no way of telling what they are thinking at any given time. Nor is it easy to have them committed to a mental hospital for any length of time. The doctors pump meds into them until they seem calm then dump them out to start over again. It's a wonder we don't have more killings from these sick people. We certainly have had our share lately, though. And you odd conspiracy guys..go take your pills now!
Jeanne Donaldson,I agree with your post with the exception of the word crazy.Nobody asks to be mentally ill and it is more respectful to say that they are suffering from a mental illness.
Just a cleaning lady,
I've not posted it here today on this thread, but I have been also saying we need to look into the mental health issue,Almost everyone knows someone or someone who knows a mentally ill person....They are hard to get treated even when the person agrees and if its a kid you have all kinds of hoops to go thru and HUGE life changing consequences for the child if they seek treatment,For instance if they ever wanted to work with the Military in any capacity,they would be turned away even if it was really food/environmental allergy that made them bonkers,A Police person ,FBI ect and they could be just fine,but a medical history can be tarnished,Mental illness is a disease and there is major stigma attached to it,So a lot of people stay quiet,And others it won't hit till something traumatic happens,or an accident like a brain injury....And some that do get treated get WAY OVER medicated so I agree that this needs addressing instead of blaming the weapon of his choice to carry it out,Whoever did this horrible slaughter needs to be dealt with swiftly and harshly.
Well Cleaning Lady then explain the videos and reports showing a completely normal person up till he went into the NIH/DARPA psyops program.
324th Psychological Operations Company (POC) -
Aurora, Colorado
349th Tactical Psychological
Operations Company (TPC) - Aurora, Colorado
Why was ther a 2nd gas mask found well away from where Holmes was but also in the area of where police reported another suspect running? Can hear it in the scanner tape
Why are there numerous reports eye witness reports of smoke bombs being thrown from 2 different directions in the theater?
Why are there also numerous eye witness reports of a man sitting in front receiving a phone call then going to emergency exit door and waving someone over?
Why would holme be so "out of touch" and just standing there when cops arrive and still being drugged out of his mind then next day? Maybe scopolamine (Devil's Breath) or similar.
Why would he spend all the time and money wiring/booby trapping his apartment with bombs that the FBI said was so susfisticated that it took them 2 days to disarm and remove? Makes no sense unless he is a patsie
Will we ever see any of the video from surrounding and theater cameras or will this also be like the Pentagon, what's to hide?
These questions and so many more make me second quess what we are being told.
PS: There also happened to be a training scenario at Rocky Vista University College of Osteopathic Medicine (minutes away from shooting) that same day to train students and staff how to respond if a shooter fires on people in a movie theater and also uses gas or bombs in the attack.
The
irony is amazing, just amazing," said Rocky Vista Dean Dr. Bruce
Dubin
Can we stop using the "crazy" card here? There was nothing wrong with Holmes when he "skillifully" prepared himself for this mass shooting...sorry but this MFK'R does not get a pass from me....if this were any other country he would have gotten the needle a while back..it doesn't take a year to research/prove the obivious..try telling that to the families of the lost ones...I dare you....everytime there's a mass shooting..the shooter always has to be mentally unstable...BS!!! Show no mercy like he did!
Release the video tapes of the shooters in Aurora and Newtown.
Each case witnesses claim that there were multiple shooters in Aurora and Newton.
Newtown police dragged camouflaged men out of the woods and never heard anything more about it. It is also on video recording.
Who was the man hiding in the woods at Newtown? Release the information.
Ted Kasinski and James Holmes were part of the CIA DARPA program for remote viewing...CIA false Flag operation. Gulf of Tonkin remember and look it up...
Sorry not buying it!
The explosives in his apartment took years of training to be able to set it up like that.
Why did he then tell police about the bombs if he set them to kill cops why tell them.
As Holmes stated "they put bombs in my apartment"
"They" meaning his DARPA handlers.
Just like Ted Kasinski both were part of DARPA remote viewers, interfacing with machines for remote viewing.
I'll never understand why they have to call him a "suspect." He's not a "suspect." He 100% committed the act. I understand that he might be found insane, not responsible for his actions, blah blah blah.... but he is NOT a "suspect." He's "the shooter," "the killer," "the gunman," or whatever else phrase that fits.
Does the phrase "Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law" mean anything to you?
Nope. Some people insist on picking and choosing which parts of the Constitution & Bill of Rights to support.
Normally, I'm a fan of due process and "innocent until proven guilty." However, this guy is so guilty. All it boils down to is whether or not he gets the death penalty. To that, I say smother this waste of oxygen.
A fan?......normally?......
Of course I get the concept of "innocent until proven guilty." And I'm all for it - and he'll get a trial, and he may well be found to be "not guilty by reason of insanity."
What I'm talking about is the obvious - he is indeed "the shooter," not the "suspected shooter" or "the suspect." His "guilt" hinges only on his mental state - but his own attorneys will be going into this trial conceding 100 percent that he is the shooter - of that there is no doubt. What they will fight over is his mental state and whether or not he can be held responsible (or guilty) for actions he clearly, indisputably committed.
If his own defense will admit he is the shooter, I think we shouldn't have any problem calling him that publicly.
So apparently this absolute monster is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law and the people who were suspected of planning and perpetrating 9/11 acts were "terrorists" from day one?
Not fan of either type of human garbage, but talk about double standard and selective morality.
If you're going to play the insanity card, I'll be curious as to how did the media/govt know that the monsters who planned, carried out 9/11 acts weren't insane and thereby eligible for the terrorists verdict before even a glimpse of a trial?
Though I do think there's something seriously wrong with this fellow's gray matter, it'd be quite hard to prove his impaired sense of judgement (due to insanity or whatever) with a proven capability of meticulously planning and carrying out a full-scale mass shooting attack with a great deal of precision and detail over an extended period of time with that level of secrecy. But that's an argument of a different discussion.
My above question is to my fellow americans. No offense intended.
Sincerely
Khaled of Saudi Arabia
What if the super-smart guy who was getting an advanced degree in mind control was used as a patsy by the Government to commit this crime. They drugged him used him as an experiment to see if his theories in mind control were correct. Where is his doctoral dissertation? Where are the notes and papers of what he was working on? I think he was used in his own experiment.
What if Napoleon had had air support at Waterloo?
Until he is found guilty by a court of law, he is still a suspect. That's just the way the law works, Elvoid. If you don't like it, start a campaign to amend the Constitution. There's a big difference between legal guilt and actual guilt. He may have actually done it, and we may all know that, but until he is declared guilty by a jury, he is innocent and still a suspect.
What part of no eyewitnesses and no security camera footage do you people not get. Even many of the movie goers in that theater described the 2 gas canisters as coming from 2 completely different directions and there was no way one person could have thrown both as the media and the authorities have claimed. But yeah, let's toss out due process because I'm pretty sure i saw all of you involved in DUII hit and runs which resulted in the death of another but I shouldn't need any evidence to prove that because I'm just sure of it because you sound like the type of people that fit that profile.
Thank you Todd. If you look at the back door to the theater and the trail of the gas mask etc, it just doesn't add up.
And lately, everything is "the alleged" shooter/killer. That term is used a lot, even when the evidence is right on the nose. The alleged killer is still holding the gun, is recorded on security cameras, there are 50 plus witnesses, and he's still the "alleged" killer.
Go figure.
I think they should give this guy the firing range and there should be no taxpayer support of this jerk to spend the rest of his life in prison or some mental hospital.
Todd and Jeanette like you I want the whole story, but doubt we will ever hear it. If we do it will be too late to benefit any of us living today.
Map
Funny but don't be a wise butt Lol,I saw Todd's posts yesterday on another thread about this and so I looked up the info,It's very compelling as well as the Sandy Hook sound like it has lots of questions around how and who was involved.
Thankx Todd BTW,I really wasn't baiting you :)
Mickey - I don't have to campaign to amend the constitution - nowhere in the constitution or any of its amendments can "innocent until proven guilty" be found. In fact, you can't even find the term "presumption of innocence" anywhere, either. (I am fully aware of the history and legal cases the "presumption" came from, however)
Having said that, I understand and support the legal "presumption of innocence" fully. A person must - in legal terms regarding the disposition of his or her case - be presumed innocent until proven otherwise in court. You can't imprison, fine or otherwise punish a person until the conclusion of their trial. This is a wise protection, indeed.
However, stating that we should refer to this particular man as "the shooter' instead of the "suspect" in no way alters the legal presumption of innocence he is entitled to in court proceedings. In court proceedings, he may well end up being found "not guilty by reason of insanity," but he will in any event, always be "the shooter" and not found to be "not the shooter." The connotation of "suspect" lends an air of "well, maybe he didn't do it" - and that's just not the case here. (Well, except for the couple of conspiracy theorists that showed up at the party. Hope they at least brought good beer)
Elvois,you obviously do not support our justice system because you would not have made the comments that you did.Facts are presented and then a judge will decide if there is enough evidence to try him.Psychiatrists will determine if he is mentally sane or not.We are not a third world country or they would do this your way.
Elvoid,
"However, stating that we should refer to this particular man as "the shooter' instead of the "suspect" in no way alters the legal presumption of innocence he is entitled to in court proceedings. In court proceedings, he may well end up being found "not guilty by reason of insanity," but he will in any event, always be "the shooter" and not found to be "not the shooter." The connotation of "suspect" lends an air of "well, maybe he didn't do it" - and that's just not the case here. (Well, except for the couple of conspiracy theorists that showed up at the party. Hope they at least brought good beer)"
Most of your post I would agree with, but have you ever served on a jury? One of the questions they usually ask prospective jurors is whether or not they have read any media coverage of the case. That's because they know that jurors can be adversely affected by what they have read in the news media. Now how do you think it might affect a prospective jury if they read in the media that the accused was not a suspect, but that he was, in fact, the shooter?
Also, the Constitution does not cover all the minutia of the court system. If it did, it would have to be thousands of pages long at least. Just exactly how the court system works is based on other documents and legal precedents.
Cleaning lady - I'm not talking about how the courts work - they work exactly as they should, in my opinon. I'm only talking about how we refer to this man OUTSIDE the legal system. I can discern that difference in this particular case - can you?
Point taken there, Mickey. However - in this particular case alone (which is all I've been talking about) I think it is a pipe dream to think that any juror is going need to entertain the idea that he might not be the shooter when the defense has already (unofficially) and will soon (officially) fully admit that he was indeed the shooter.
The only question - in this particular case - is competence and sanity of the defendant. The action that got him here is not realistically in dispute - not even in the courtroom. These jurors will not be asked if they can entertain this man's innocence as in "he didn't do it." They will be asked to entertain his innocence based on something like "he did, we admit he did it, but there are extenuating circumstances by which you should find this man innocent due to his mental state. Can you keep a fair an open mind about that evidence?"
They are not going to be asked to entertain the idea that he was not the shooter. They will be told he absolutely was the shooter.
Elvoid,Keep back peddling.I read all of your posts and do understand what you said to begin with.
"What if" some of us have gone completely around the bend? There are at least a dozen pathological posts on this thread - whether you're a troll or convinced - they are still pathological.
If you can point out any backpedaling, cleaning lady, please do. I believe it is only found in your imagination as I have been entirely consistent. Prove otherwise, if you can - it's all up there in black and white. I won't hold my breath.
No Cleaning Lady it seems you are the one that does not support our justice system. As your post above you have Holmes convicted and mentally ill. I think it is you that may need to be on meds.
Here is one of your other quotes, and for once in your life why don't you ever question the BS that is feed to you. If you look past MSM you will see that things just don't add up.
Your the same type of person that had the Hutaree's convicted just due to media/FBI reports. Take some time and get the movie A Noble Lie, I know you won't as you would have to buy it. But if you were to watch then maybe it would open your eyes to how the gov often lies. Also look into Waco Revelations and the statements made by FBI and military experts
Todd, Jeannette, you're trying to confuse them with the facts.
He looks like the white " Guy Fawkes" mask worn at protest marches.
Whether it's this clown or the wacko from Tucson, why do these guys always seem to look completely deranged in their post-shooting photos/appearances? Didn't someone think there was a problem with these fools pre-tragedy?
Pretty sure the media posts the most deranged-looking photo they can find.
both of those guys photos that have been used by the media were taken as mug shots after they were arrested.
Yeah but look at the past photos and videos of Holmes. They show a brillant and sane person. People that know him state that he started to change as soon as he started in with the NIH mind control studies. It would not be the first time the Feds have used a patsy to push forward their agenda, they have been doing it for decades
y this loser not hanging in times square yet.
this guy is going for an insanity plea i think. look at this picture where he's trying to look crazy versus the pictures of him in court where he doesn't know he's being photographed. we need to do away with temporary insanity pleas for murder cause who's to say once released you won't "go insane" again.
When you look at the pictures of these killers - everyone from Holmes to Lougher to the Virginia Tech shooter to the person who shot up Sandy Hook, they all have one thing in common: They look stark raving nuts.
If we are foolish enough to spend all of our energy on gun control, which will not work in my opinion (just how do you propose getting the guns from the nuts and criminals if they don't want to give them up?) we are going to miss the real problem.
Our mental health care in this country sucks. Schizophrenia and psychoses typically manifest in the late teens to mid twenties. I worry less about this becoming a defense tactic than I do wondering how we can protect our society from these loons since it is almost impossible in most states to get an involuntary commitment and forced medical treatment.
If messed up hair is an indication of a crazy person, then I hope none of you see me walking my dog at 4 am.
on a serious note, I'm not sure how he can be found innocent due to insanity, yeah, he apears to be crazy as a loon, but it sure seems from the news accounts, that he planned this out. My non-binding opion is if you're walking down the street and just pick up a rock-innocent by reason of insanity. If you take the time to dress in body armor, you sane enough to realize bullets hurt
I've read his father is somehow involved and testify in the LIBOR bank scandal, And also these banks are allegedly involved in the laundering of money in the Fast and Furious Goverment Gun scandal......hmmmm
gearing up for some kind of insanity defense of your own perhaps?
Ster2 - The election is over, and this isn't Fixed News. Go on back over there and discuss "Fast and Furious." Nevermind....they don't allow commenting anymore, do they?
yet you are still FOF (fixated on fox) and use a political username.
It is called hypocrisy, and they don't even know it. Weird huh?
When will the "Gun Control Freaks" (GCF's) just give it up? Disarming America ain't going to happen and at the least they risk the Law Of Unintended Consequences!
Oh well the constant pushing of their Disarm America for the Corporate Oligarchs Agenda is more important than our Only Defense Against Tyranny which considering the fact of Wall Street Corporations Buying Off Our Politicians and Supreme Court Members you would think "They" would be the First to defend the Constitution of the United States and Our Bill Of Rights.....Not the LAST!
Especially since only the Second Amendment means anything any more!
Hmm maybe the Wall Street Robber Barons need to hurry up and coral them into Free Speech Zones after searching their persons homes computers and phones without warrant and their Political Minions putting GCF's into Indefinite Detention Camps with Out Trial?
I mean if all these "Gun Control Freaks" really care about is the Corporations Rights......
“Almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.” ~Robert A. Heinlein
MUW: Did you read the quote you posted?
Wow, what a crazy expression this guy has, just like Loughner, and just like Lanza. Maybe the NRA can post armed "expression expert" lookouts? Nevermind...everyone with certain thyroid problems would be suspect.....
look at the pics of him when he doesn't know he's being photographed and he looks normal. he's doing these freaky photos to build an insanity case.
Hatr Hurter,You judge people often on their looks? He is on his medicine for mental health issues which is very calming and sedating.
cleaning lady, everyone judges based on looks whether you think you do or not. if you see someone with rotted out teeth and rags for clothes you can't honestly say you aren't judging them in some way. the same as if you see a man dressed in a high dollar suit driving a porsche or ferrari you judge that person.
I'm so tired of hearing people bicker about guns. Do what you want.. It won't matter anyway. And stop using those stupid pictures of him. Trying to make him look crazy or something.. Here's an idea, don't post any pics of him and don't release his name. Then the moron wouldn't have any motivation to kill people in the first place!
There's no "trying", he's crazy. Those are "crazy eyes", a clue to the soul.
The picture says it all. That's a serious case of "crazy eyes".
yep lets shoot em....BillyBob dont like his eyes.
BillyBob, It's ashame the cops ever took him into custody. He should of been put out of his misery right at the theater.it will be millions to prosecute this scumbag then we have to take care of him in jail for the rest of his worthless life.
He even looks like a physco. My how the judicial system is working in his favor. He'll eventually get a physco ward at some plush farm for the rest of his life and all be forgotten.
He had to be a sane, rational gun owner because otherwise he would not have been able to buy his aresenal online and have it delivered right to his residence.
Go NRA!!!!
William...have you met Billy Bob? do us all a favor go over and have him take a look at your eyes.
GO NRA........ya got that much right.
williamofrights
You can't buy a firearm online & have it deliverd to your door. you are either misinformed or a liar.
Ignorance should be painful & stupidity fatal.
You cant buy firearms online and have them delivered to your home they have to be sent to someone with an FFL (AKA a gun dealer) and then you have to complete the required forms and pass a background check before they let you have them. If he was never in any trouble or diagnosed with a mental defect then he would prob be allowed to have them. I would bet that there are all kinds of people who are mentally insane but yet undiagnosed so free to buy guns. Guns kill no one the shooter does that. I would rather have guns to protect myself and my family than bring a knife to a gun fight.
If they try taking the guns away from the American public....... then we should brace ourself for another civil war.
feet first into the wood chipper with this guy. there is no reason he should still be breathing...
With a mug shot like that we don't need a psych exam to convince us he's crazy.
Brain washing(media) your under going has formed your opinions.
Timmy do you and BillyBob share the same trailor?
If we were judgeing people on the way they look then we would all have a very serious problem
The question is whether or not to seek the death penalty......what redeeming quality does this monster possess?
Well if he's declared insane then his redeeming quality is he's crazy. It's enough to keep him breathing, unfortunately.
The sole common thread to any event which results in murder and mass murder is the evil in the heart and mind of the murderer. The tools of these evil people are ANYTHING that can promulgate what is in their evil hearts and minds. They will acquire whatever tool is necessary to their purpose. The magnitude of their acts is not amplified by a specific tool or set of tools and removing some of their tools will not suppress the magnitude of their acts. Legislation of those tools is meaningless, ineffective and an exercise in futility. Americans should be smart enough to understand this, even liberal Americans.
Agreed. Gun control has NOTHING do do with these mass shootings. The number of victims in these cases pales in comparison to the number of deaths in this country due to misused firearms.
It gets peoples attention and emotional on the subject, but if your in favor of gun control stop using these terrible isolated events as your sounding board.
These were freak occurances.
Their are more intelligent way to make your argument.
Ban handguns and assault weapons to avoid deaths due to misused firearms. There, that sounds better.
Ban psychotropic drugs that make ppl have suicidal and homicidal thoughts.
It was the drugs that pushed this man over the edge.
He was totally drugged out when the cops found him in the parking lot puking.
Multiple reports that there were more than one shooter. As drugged out as he was there was additional help. This is a government false flag all the way.
The way he had his apartment rigged and the military type explosives only and expert could have done.
Time for the bleeding hearts and left wingers to take a hike. The 2nd ammendment gives us the right to bear arms....and until the constitution gets changed the crying and bellyaching needs to stop. If you do not like the contstitution that we live under - then leave and go to a country where you have no rights and big bother tells you what to do and when to do it....that sure worked out well for the Germans and the others in history, as well as some of the current governments that are out there killing their populous.
Now for this nut case - end his life as quickly as he ended the innocents attending a simple movie....enough of caring and spending tax pay dollars to keep this person alive...he can never be brought back into society so just end it and save all the grief of reliving the horror that he caused.
2nd ammendment provides right to bear arms in the context of a "well regulated milita". We don't have a well regulated militia. If anything we have a "poorly regulated and disfunctional militia" where any nut job can get a gun for any purpose other than defending our country.
The Supreme Court sees it another way....the right to bear arms by all members of the country...!!!!! That is why we have the court....they can understand what our forefathers meant....besides we need a well armed militia in case big brother decides to get too big for his own good.
The Supreme Court once thought Slavery was OK too. Doesn't make it right.
And your paranoia about Big Brother doesn't justify murdering innocent children.
Guns do not kill people - people kill people....the ones that want to kill will find a way.....either guns or another form...they will find a way...we need to make examples of these nut cases....they have a right to a fair trial and when the verdict is in - END their life quickly...do not let them feed off the tax payer dollars any longer than necessary for their trial ...then put them to death with no remorse what so ever. There is no rehabilitation for people like this, they do not belong in any type of society under any circumstances.
Guns do not kill people. People who make guns freely accessible kill people.
Sharp as a tack on that answer......great job!!!!
And 100% true to boot.
You keep thinking that way....everyone has a right to their own choice.....but, just remember when they come and take away your birthday...and tell you how much more of your paycheck to give them...and then they tell you how much air you are allowed to breathe....just remember you read it here...ha ha ha ha!!!!
I'm more worried about some nut with a gun taking away might right to breathe.
Hey no rocket science, it is called a free country for a reason. You should have the freedom to defend yourself from that person or you can choose to not defend yourself and hope nobody shoots you.
You could move to China and whine and cry about people carrying knives and killing children.
You can't live in a free country and have the Government protect you from everything. I think it is pretty obvious that our Government is NOT GOOD at protecting us from everything.
Tom. There's something in the Declaration of Independence about "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness". Being shot dead needlessly so some people can idolize their guns infringes on all three.
Hey, notrocketbrains - think about this - being killed on the interstate by a cellphone-using teen driver infringes on them much more often, if that's how you want to incorrectly interpret the word freedom.
IA Scooter and repub,
Your both morons,Im not making this crap up,who could....Oh wait Obama made up his own on Benghazi and the video,And the left bought it hook line and sinker,anything said or asked about O that questions his motives and you guys are like cats on hot tin roofs.
If James Holmes did it or was involved,he deserves the death penalty,but what do ya say we turn over every rock for evidence,conflicting reports including the 911 dispatch calls and local interviews of those that got away from the theater say there were more than one person,And smoke canisters thrown from different directions,More than one gas mask was found in the theater,bloody footprints that do not lead to the car he was in and other questions that need answers, same happened at Sandy Hook, 911 calls clearly have police with two of the suspects on the ground while another cop on foot runs into the woods after the third suspect,so having all the details and questions answered before hanging him in town square is the way our system is suppose to work,we should be sure he is actually guilty,wouldn't you want that for yourself if you were in his shoes?I assume if either of you were accused of this crime you would be a scapegoat...maybe he is too,.i don't know and neither do you.And as far as Fast and Furious Repub...I think the government selling guns on the sly is very relevant when there are screamers to ban guns,one of them being our Prez O,who the day after the election signed a UN global gun ban treaty.
when you can substantiate ANYTHING you have claimed besides "i read once" let me know and i will regress.
In the meantime..Blind paranoia is playing right into the medias hype and further fuels their agenda. In your case it may be too late. name calling is a lib trademark and considered a rational thought process, when indeed its completely the opposite.
IA scooter
I am as far from a lib as you,I used my search engine and looked up James Holmes and where he got his guns,is he guilty? and so on,then ran into several sites asking these questions and claims,The lead singer of Megadeath has also voiced his concern at a concert in Singapore,over all of these shootings recently including this one as well as Fast and Furious how they may possibly be connected with the intent of disarming Not just America but the whole world,this is where Obama signing the UN gun ban treaty the day after the election comes in,And I watched that on the news the day after the election, I am not paranoid,I like to have all the information from several sources,I think these questions are valid,what happens when we stop asking questions? Or have different opinion's? I normally agree with most of your posts,Im sorry I called you a name,but insinuating I am Paranoid and Im gearing up for an insanity plea of my own is also name calling.
Obama did sign the Gun Ban Treaty with the UN.
Fast and Furious happened
The 911 tapes were on the web as well as the rest of the info,A few people on the vine were talking about it,so I looked up the info,they are questions,I do not know either way what really happened anymore than anyone else,But if he is found guilty I think the Death Penalty is in order.
Good day :)
"your" both morons. And punctuation is good too!! If you can't get this down, how are we to believe you can handle linear or critical thinking on conceptual issues?
SDN,
I was unaware of being graded on my comments,O'Wise one.
What could be better than scooter calling the ranting Ster2 a lib? Ban 'em ban'em ban'em.
Yea takenaka that's super Kool ! Sticks and stones kiddo :)
Hey ole vox then lets change the whole constitution while were at it. Wait as a Marine I was sworn to uphold and defend it you lose. James Holms manchurian candidate you tube it. It's about UN gun confiscation. There were reports in the begining that there were three gun men. Stay w/main stream media and be brain washed.
Good thing I am not a psychotherapist I would fry this clown.
Doesn't premeditation take some form of sanity ?
What was really amusing is I heard the judge was trying to figure out if there was enough evidence to go to trial. Was the body count too low to go to trial ?
The gun and ammo manufacturers ought to give Obama a Christmas bonus.
They got richer after his speech.
This guy will get off by reason of insanity it is way too easy to manipulate the mental health system.
Hence the reason your not...gotta admit though fried clown with a side of baked beans sounds good.
Not according to the lib courts or media
Just stalling so he can continue checking out Holmes's hot attorney.
nope he was just fulfilling a campaign promise to increase manufacturing amazingly its first time he did what he said.
the rich always do when the govt proposes MORE govt.
Support Mental Health....or I'll kill you.
Scooter....you are one funny guy. Love reading your posts. Keep em' coming! I haven't seen one lib take you down, no matter how hard they try.
John From the former USA,I'm glad that you are not a psycho therapist also.Your hateful comments do not deem you suited for such a profession.
Vuelta Abajo: Would you recognize it if it occurred?
..all i can say is.. thank god we know everything about this guy.... cause really what else can measure up the the reward of fame?
msnbc....please.... please please... the next moron that decides to go on a rampage... blur his face..refer to him as... 'the suspect' 'the shooter' 'the bad guy' 'the a-hole' anything but his actual name.... and let people know they can't be famous for being a dangerous moron any longer...
I agree. These things tend to come in bunches. Monkey see...
It seems relevant to address the notion that "40% of guns are purchased without background check" or the so-called gun show loophole. While a real issue worth discussion, it is also worth challenging the numbers. Most guns purchased at gun shows are with background checks. Just how do they arrive at a figure of 40%? If there was no check, then they presumably have no knowledge of the transfer (and therefore could not have any basis for a calculation). This dishonest calculation include every purchase I have ever made. That is right, I am not required to do a background check when I purchase a firearm! Why? Because I have a concealed carry permit. I went to a much more rigorous background check when I got my permit. I show my CHL to the vendor and fill out the paperwork (thus recording the transfer). But no further background is done. BECAUSE I have already been carefully scrutinized for my CHL, I am not subject to background check. Sure the 40% number includes private sales between individuals. But the numbers are much lower than claimed. The rationale for the exemption is to permit the private sale between (for example) two brothers, or from father to son, or friends.
Mark Wilder-7513937
We both know that there is no Gun Show loop holes. ALL dealers go by the book or they risk loosing their license. I think the gun grabbers think they can make laws that will bring Black Market gun sales to light. I'm sure ALL the Gang Bangers & criminals will go by the book after they make these laws. These criminals will just ship in guns from all over the World & sell them just like they do drugs & everything else illegal. There are already hundreds of laws in place but these new ones that would hamper sales to law abiding people will be the laws that bring Criminals to their knees. Sure, Right.
To add to my comments re what goes on here in Canada and the US. We also dont sell guns at Walmart or your nearest grocery store or at gun shows. I saw an ad just before Christmas where a jewler was offering a free gun if you purchased a diamond ring from them. I remember it clearly because it blew my mind that gun laws were so slack that this kind of thing could go and and be advertised no less. But then we have liquor stores to buy booze - that isnt sold in our grocery stores either. How is all that working out for ya.
SHar, The gun or the booze you need to be legal. We sell guns at walmart or gun stores your record has to come back clean. same thing with booze you can get it at a grocery store or liquor store again you have to be old enough. the getting a free gun with your diamond is so you can keep it most cities they would have that diamond in minutes if you didn't have a gun. It's a different world today. this isn't mayberry today protect yourself or dial 911 and die waiting for help to come. There's a worldful of scumbags out there and that's a shame.
Ted Kasinski and James Holmes were part of the CIA DARPA program for remote viewing...CIA false Flag operation. Gulf of Tonkin remember and look it up...
Sorry not buying it!
The explosives in his apartment took years of training to be able to set it up like that.
Why did he then tell police about the bombs if he set them to kill cops why tell them.
As Holmes stated "they put bombs in my apartment"
"They" meaning his DARPA handlers.
Just like Ted Kasinski both were part of DARPA remote viewers, interfacing with machines for remote viewing.