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John Makely / NBC News
Ryan Andresen completed the requirements to earn his Eagle Scout award last year, but his Scoutmaster at the time refused to sign his Eagle scout application because of his sexual orientation.
Editor's note: An earlier version of this story from Reuters mischaracterized which group had recommended the Eagle Scout rank for Ryan Andresen. It was the local volunteer review board for a California council of the Boy Scouts.
A local review board for a California council of the Boy Scouts of America has challenged the national organization by recommending that an openly gay former Scout be awarded the top rank of Eagle.
"From what I understand, this has never happened before," Eric Andresen, father of former scout Ryan Andresen, told Reuters.
"It's the first in-your-face (challenge)," said Bonnie Hazarabedian, who chaired the Boy Scout district review board that signed off on Ryan's Eagle scout application and sent it to the Mount Diablo-Silverado Council to be forwarded to the national headquarters for final approval.
But John Fenoglio, scout executive for the local council, told the Silicon Valley Mercury News on Tuesday that he had ruled that Andresen's submission was still ineligible and would not be forwarded.
Ryan, 18, and his parents drew national attention in October after his Scoutmaster refused to sign his Eagle scout application because of his sexual orientation.
More than 462,000 people subsequently signed the Andresens' petitions at Change.org calling on the Scoutmaster to sign. Meanwhile, the Andresens pushed Ryan's application up the Boy Scout hierarchy in the San Francisco Bay area, where it landed before Hazarabedian.
Gay Scouts come out, rally around teen's Eagle Scout bid
"I don't think sexual orientation should enter into why a Scout is a Scout, or whether they are Eagle material," said Hazarabedian. "We felt without a doubt he deserved that rank."
In a statement emailed to NBC News on Tuesday, Boy Scouts public relations director Deron Smith said:
"The Eagle application was forwarded, by a volunteer, to the local council but it was not approved because this young man proactively stated that he does not agree to Scouting’s principle of 'Duty to God' and does not meet Scouting’s membership requirements. Therefore, he is not eligible to receive the rank of Eagle. "
Hazarabedian told Reuters she acted on Ryan's Eagle application because it was filed before his ejection.
Obama opposes Boy Scouts' policy banning gays
"It's gotten to the point that getting the Eagle doesn't matter so much. It's the message that counts. It's the desire that no other Scout should ever have to go through this," said Eric Andresen, who was a Boy Scout leader until his son was ejected.
Hazarabedian called the BSA anti-gay policy "something out of the Dark Ages."
In 1981 when Hazarabedian was a teenager, her friend's brother Tim Curran, a gay Eagle Scout, was the plaintiff in what became the landmark case in California upholding the right of the Boy Scouts, and private organizations in general, to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation.
Hazarabedian said she recalls making posters and signing petitions in support of Curran and thinking, "By the time I have a son old enough to be a Scout, that will be years from now, they will have fixed this by then, they'll be more tolerant by then. But here we are, 2013, and the same thing is going on."
Watch the most-viewed videos on NBCNews.com
Ryan, who became something of a celebrity with national television appearances and strangers asking to be photographed with him, wants to focus on his last year of high school, his father said.
"We assume someday BSA will (change), and maybe at that time Ryan can retroactively get his Eagle award," he said.
This article includes reporting by NBC News staff and Reuters.
California 17-year-old Ryan Andresen is being denied his Eagle Scout award, a top scouting honor. A Boy Scouts official said Andresen is no longer eligible for membership because he does not adhere to scouting's principle of duty to God or the membership standard on sexual orientation.
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I was a long time leader in BSA when my sons were growing up. My husband and I spent over 25 years very involved in this organization on local and state levels as we moved around the US as a military family. We were also very involved is Girl Scouts with our daughter. Our oldest son is an Eagle Scout and a World Jamboree Scout; our daughter is a Gold Award Girl Scout; and our youngest son is a Life Scout. I tell you all of this so you will realize that I am knowledgeable about the organization on various levels.
BSA may have a legal right to hold these policies but they are not morally correct and are not in keeping with lessons taught to their membership. They are also not in keeping with the stance you will find at the local level in most places. At that level, the concern is attracting members and leaders who will commit to what involves a lot of time and energy with the reward being time spent with one's own children and helping to teach them to be strong adults. I never remember one single time when a scout or a leader was asked for their sexual orientation or their religious affiliation. It made little difference to us and we welcomed the help and support given by everyone. The members are taught to be kind; to treat people well; to become strong, independent individuals; to pursue a life of good works. None of those lessons belong in an organization with hate filled policies like this.
Another point many people miss is that most Scouts join as 6 or 7 year olds who wouldn't have any clue about their sexual preferences and adopt religious practices according to what their family does. A scout who attains the level of Eagle has spent most of his childhood working toward that goal. It is an honor that requires a great deal of commitment and hard work over several years if it is done properly. One's sexual or religious preferences are irrelevant to whether the young man deserves the honor. It worries me that the organization takes small children and then rejects them or their parents/leaders because of something that is not relevant. It is telling those who have come to accept their homosexuality or that of their parent/guardian that they are less than deserving of respect and honor. It tells teens who are very often ambiguous about religion that because they are, at any given time, questioning faith, they are less than deserving of respect.
My son who is an Eagle Scout is an atheist. Boy Scouts literally saved his life during a tumultuous teen journey and gave him life skills he still uses every day. Yet, he is persona non grata in BSA and his abundant skills are not welcome by those who adhere to this bigotry!
I have stopped ALL of my support to an organization I gave many, many hours to but will not support them again at any level until they change their ways. I believe that if change comes, it will be because of people at the local and regional levels who demand change just as these people have. I wish them well!
I am with you Linda. See my post a couple of minutes before yours regarding my Eagle Scout history
Linda,
The BSA is certainly morally correct. You would be the first to scream if your son was violated in any way.
We do not want the Scouts, including Cubs, to learn about sex the wrong way.
Indeed, Scouts require duty to God. If you don't like it, then don't join. If your son was an atheist when he was in Scouts or when he made Eagle, he is a hypocrite and a liar. You are an accessory.
Your wrong- minded support is not necessary or required or needed.
We at the local levels like it just fine the way it is and will continue to defend it against folks such as yourself.
NC,
Do you ever tire of being so bitter and angry?
Who talks about sex with scouts? Is that part of the BS curriculum, you can @!$%# girls but Dear God, if you are interested in boys, @!$%# a girl anyway....I thought BS were supposed to be HONEST...what part about dating a GIRL when you are GAY is honest?
I discusse menstrual cycles with the girls, changing tampons to prevent infections, proper disposal, cleanliness, etc. not sex. That was for schools and parents....and I am a nurse. I did tell the girls if they ever thought they did need someone to talk to I was,always there if they couldn't talk to their mom. But that was the end of it.
Good for you Linda.
Don't be dissuaded by the hate and ignorance of people like NC. They are a dying breed.
Except that morality is not universal. Consider for a moment that several religions (of which are accepted into the BSA) believe homosexuality is perfectly moral. Oops! Since the Oath only states a general connection to one's personal deity, I guess that means a homosexual of one of those religions is moral!
It encourages me to see so many who embrace the stance I believe in. As for NC, I am sorry for you that your life if hampered by your bigotry and ignorance. Many of these young people are struggling with both their sexuality and their religious beliefs. They, like my son, may not find their answers till long past their scouting years. BSA has the opportunity to be a supportive entity in their lives as they traverse the rough road of growing up. These bigoted attitudes and policies do nothing but make that road more difficult.
@allswell--excellent point. Morality is absolutely a personal construct and means different things to different people. I find it immoral to discriminate against anyone and do my best not to do that. In accepting that we all have our own beliefs, we find the ability to respect those stances as well. I do not disrespect their stance or even their right to hold it. I simply don't agree and feel my stance is as valid as theirs.
why are gays so content to get into straight things cant understand why they dont start the gay scout of america sounds better and it fits them, dont worry obama is going to pay you all back for your votes just like he doing for all the illegal immigrants in illiois by giving them a license.gotta say pretty embarasing to be a american right know
they have one...its called the girl scouts
Is it embarrassing to be illiterate too?
Because a person is gay does not mean they are more inherently drawn to being a pedophile. Gay people have children that they do not molest. In fact, the rate of abuse for the children of straight people is actually much higher than that of homosexual... Unfortunately, Pedophiles look for situations where they can be alone with our kids. That is the real reason why churches, afterschool programs, Boy Scouts etc... are common hunting grounds for Pedophiles. It is also the reason why society freaks out about Gays in these organizations. It is misinformed fear that something could happen, but it is fear about the troop leader, priest, not one of the kids who are taking part.
By the same token, I feel private organizations should be protected, as they have always been under the U.S. Constitution. Churches cannot be forced to accept things that are against their beliefs anymore than Boy Scouts of America. I think the President needs to be mindful of the U.S. Constitution. It doesn't matter what President Obama thinks, what is most important is that we remain a free country. Religious Freedom is exactly that. It is FREE to do what ever it wants. I think the Scout's are a private organization, and that is that. It is sad for Gay kids, because kids do not understand the U.S. Constitution and what it stands for. I believe that if we start picking and choosing what private organizations can do, we will no longer be America.
No one is saying that the BSA can't discriminate but we are saying that it speaks volumes about the bigoted character of the organization.
You can all try and justify boys/men putting their penis' inside one another. But its just really sad when a certain segment of society are not able to see what is filthy.
But it's okay when straight guys corn hole their lady friends.
A majority of Americans are Christians, Jews, or Muslims. I know not of a recognized religion that condones anal intercourse-sodomy. I am not sure what the Muslims cut-off, but I bet it is not the hand!
If you have raised a defective, perverted child, my heart goes out to you, but don't expect normal people to want our children to be around him. STAY OUT OF THE BOY SCOUTS.
The "normal" people?
That's a laugh.
You must feel so superior.
Hot daddy--and not a single one of those religions condones premarital sex, either. But I don't see the BSA expelling kids or denying Eagle ranks to straight teenagers who can't keep it in their pants on prom night.
I see more straight men and women in the OR with anal tears and missing items....one was a shower head the mans GIRLFRIEND put in there while having sex...
And I know a gay guy that does NOT practice anal sex, top or bottom...
Yeah, sure, whatever...nice try I dont believe you one bit...Have friends that are nurse also and been told alot about what goes on in the ER...hilarious...with both homosexuals and hetersexuals...what was stuck up there butts...it is really disgusting...and hilarious at the same time...And you know just (ONE) gay that does not practice anal sex...wow that is alot...Wonder what he practice? I wont even go there...
I only know 5 gay men and have not asked if they have anal sex. Again, not my business.
Both heteros and gays have sexual injuries all the time. Anal injuries are not only for gays....that was my point, but you already know that DGAL....
I have worked in 2 of the biggest trauma centers in the country, been a nurse for 25 yrs...I have seen and heard a lot...nothing suprises me.
Dgal...do me a favor and place me on IGNORE
No, I am not going to give you the satisfaction...Do you a favor!?! Yeah right!...Do yourself a favor dont answer my comments...
Maybe some people shouldn't join certain groups. If I was an anti-gun advocate I wouldn't join the NRA. The same applies here. The BSA doesn't try to hide that they don't want gay scouts so why do a few gays HAVE to join? Make no sense to me.
soazDan--One minor difference--the sole purpose of NRA is to promote guns. Are you going to argue that the sole purpose of the BSA is exclude gays?
I always thought it was to raise boys in to competent, ethical men. And a person who agrees with me on 9 things out of 10 should be my friend, not my enemy. By all accounts, Ryan was a good scout who comported with 99% of the rules of scouting. A difference on issue, an issue which is not central to the identity of scouting, should not be an excluding factor.
As a former scout in a time when queers were not as prevalent in our country, I feel qualified to say the following: There is NO PLACE for sexual deviates in scouting. If they come out, they will get their asses whipped severely by the other boys. If your child is confused sexually, keep him out of scouting, the Marines, and all special forces. Perhaps the Navy?
"Sexual Deviates"? your screen name says it all about you. Good luck.
Ya well you didn't do such a great job keeping out the pedophiles, who are by and large mostly living as heteros.
LJ, where did you come up with most pedophiles are straight? This article indicates otherwise as have most other ones adderessing this.
Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.
http://www.frc.org/get.cfm?i=is02e3
LJ,
It is a hard job keeping them out since pedophiles normally do not advertise. But we are doing pretty well nowadays,
Not perfect? No, but we are doing much better.
soazDan, that you cite an anti-gay hate group as credible tells us everything we need to know about you.
The FRC exists to defame gays and spread disinformation about them.
Its amazing how many neanderthalic homophobes you discover seeping out of the woodwork when an article like this comes along. And just how fast they forget the rules of the community upon which they entered...like the rules against personal attacks, personal insults, and slurs.
If a gay or straight Boy Scout has earned his Eagle Scout badge, the BSA organization should honor that. What anti-homosexual god does the BSA leadership organization worship?
One that hates the sin but loves the sinner. God has told us the path we should walk. A celebrate homo is ok. I.E. one that has evil thoughts, but does not act on them. Open homos demonstrate no shame concerning their lifestyle choices and that is terribly wrong. WHERE IS THEIR SHAME?
Pyrine,
I understand that you have little knowledge of the Boy Scouts.
Part of it includes duty to God, whichever you worship. Atheism is not accepted.
We do not hate gays but neither do we want them among our kids.
NC-Randomnumbers.... I started BSA as a Tiger Cub, and eventually made it to Life, one rank below Eagle. I started work at that time so I never finished the requirements for Eagle, but I helped two other fellow scouts with their Eagle projects. So do not presume to know my knowledge of Boy Scouts.
In those days I may have believed in a god, but to be honest I think I was really just going through the motions. We didn't have any gay scouts in my troop as far as I know, but in retrospect, it shouldn't have mattered if we did.
Gay, Atheist, bible thumper, who cares? Scouting really didn't focus on gods or sexual orientation.
NC--I understand you pretend to have more knowledge of Boy Scouts than you really do. Buddhists do not believe in God, and therefore do not have a "duty to god." And yet there are Buddhist specific badges, and troops affiliated with Buddhist temples.
May I ask a stupid question?
How would everyone feel if I should recommend that all those @!$%#s, Chinks, Nips, Wops, Pollacks, Spicks, Zips, Gooks, Paddies, and such, (I am at the limit of my vocabulary of the language of hatred here) should go off and form their own scouting organization and call it whatever they want?
Separate but equal is fundamentally not equal. BSA is on the wrong side of history in this matter at this time and is undergoing the pains of change, and they will change, just not soon enough.
Teh BSA is a private organization. They have the constitutional right to set the paramters of their membership. you may disagree and that is your right. I hate the westboro baptist church and the KKK, but I will die for their freedom to express their opinion. That is America. If we censure them, we censor ourselves and we are in peril.
Yes the Left sez we must all "evolve" on all social issues. We must put aside all the standards of decorum, decency, and civility that our forefathers passed down to us through generations. We must embrace the vernacular of modern day Rap Music. Even though most of us were "RAISED RIGHT", we must admit to all that we no longer have a understanding of right and wrong. Our entire value system must be thrown out with the weekly trash to appease the militant left whose mandate was sealed by the election of Obama and his legions of moochers. We the producers are to go silently into the good night-we old white hetero-sexual Christian men and women. GOD IS DEAD IN OBAMA"S AMERICA......Like Hell He is!
BearZZZ, the BSA has a long standing and publicly well known policy that they do not want gay scouts. Why shouldn't their right to promote traditional non-gay values be respected? And trying to make every social issue a civil rights issue isn't accurate.
Bear,
Equality is not part of the equation, although Scouts has a long history of being inclusive.
As a private organization, we can make the rules we want. Perversion is not acceptable. Why do we have to accept what YOU want?
Don't like it? Do not join or support it.
what's a zip?
Ban queers/fags/homos/and dikes from publicly displaying and imposing their unethical and unsanitary lifestyle on others. They are the major cause of epedimic of AIDS throughout the world. Send them all out to sea in the Bermuda Triangle. They've destroyed the military to the point where a straight GI can't evn go to the John without a fag tapping his feet under the stahl. Everytime I go take a shower I MUST tie the soap to my waist with a string so it doesn't fall and I have to bend over. I sleep with one eye open becuase these fags are so aggresive. Even Secretary of Defense (nominee) Hagel has publically commented on how agressive these fags are. Keep them out of the one and only remaining straight organization (Boys Scouts) before they try renaming it to "One Size Fits All"
At first I though you were attempting satire, then I realized you were serious.
The soap on string comment is a little overboard.
I would not want to be in theatre with someone as paranoid as you, friendly fire and all.
You think yourself quite dashing and sexual magnet for the boys and you're so scared.
Please.
That is the whole thing here, degenerate America, conform to sicknesses and perversions. Some say oh but we should conform, we should be tolerant, yet they push this trash, their sickness daily and the human race knows it's deviate and sickness and our children should not be subject to it. If they grow to be this way, well it's because they were subject to it, not born that way. If you conform to it, you are just as guilty of destroying our nation, destroying our rights to stop perversion, sicknesses and people whose only goal is to destroy anything good and clean in this once godly nation today. It's not moral for me to push my sex life onto others, yet we allow that today too and it's sickness gone wild. Keep it in your bed and it's moral,, shove it in others faces like you do, it's deviate perverted sickness and you should be treated like any other child molester, rapist, porn star and others who think it's ok to float my sexual preferences around others, Go get your aids, we don't care, just don't pass it on to the next generation at 10 years old,,idiots with one agenda,, Show the world your sex practices even if they are young boy scouts. SICK and nothing more..Oh now wanting to teach it in schools,, you people are poison on our children,,
Pull the bible out of your ass and try to make sense.
dave,
Ok, here you go: we will not knowingly accept sexual deviants in Scouts.
Plain enough for you?
I don't care what some chicken@!$%# @!$%# thinks. Clear enough for you?
When will Americans learn that Christianity is not a democracy? We don't get a say in whether something should be moral or not! The arrogance is staggering. In this country we have freedom of speech and freedom of religious expression. The progressives keep hammering on the separation of church and state. This is a prime example. They don't want he church telling them what to do, God forbid we have prayer in school or a nativity scene at the courthouse. But it is okay for them to tell the church what to do. The scripture is clear..."God will not be mocked. You will reap exactly what you sow." You have been warned.
God is a perverted bastard, rapist and murderer! You have been warned!
I don't care what the scripture says. Religion should not be using any of their dogma to influence how we treat each other.
LJ no one is using religious dogma to hurt anyone. The rules are theirs to make. and this young man had a choice. He did not have to be in the scouts. We can't decide to be in an organization and then say we want to change its rules. If you don't like what they stand for then don't join. It is not an american right to be an eagle scout!
LJ,
What? WHAT!?!?!? Religion is EXACTLY what we should be using in how we treat one another!
If you knew anything about Christianity you would never have said that.
LJ, please explain which one of the Ten Commandments you disagree with.
Dave,, you can say whatever you want about God. He is big enough to take it. He is still in control and he loves you more that anyone ever will.
In control? You bible pimps crack me up.
Psst.....god.....I'm mocking you.
Yes discrimating people..you WILL reap what you sow....get ready, karmas a bitch.
Here we go again, an old story dug up to keep "gay in your face". This is stupid. The agenda is to pervert every organization and part of the normal culture so that the fringe "feel" normal. They are not and never will be and they do not have a constitutional right to be. What a ugly, mean group.
amen
Sounds like your talking about the GOP
I am disturbed by this post, that the Boy Scouts of America would openly discriminate in this way, it's no surprise, but what is most unfortunate is the loyalty and dedication that this young man has shown to achieve this distinction. My neighbor last year achieved Eagle Scout and at his coronation you can see the pride. It is my feeling that the folks at the national level have done nothing to uphold the standards and principals that are instilled in these young men. This young man is a Scout, the folks that are preventing this are not Scouts and certainly are not demonstrating tolerance, and no national organization should endorse any kind of discrimination. To hide behind God as justification is simply cowardly. They should not be allowed to say that they are the Boy Scouts of America because Americans are tolerant and accepting, they should simply be the Boy Scouts.
Its a private Christian organization!!!! They can call themselves whatever they want. Wake up people! Morality and the constitution are not bassed on FEELINGS!
D25,
No one is hiding. This subject is very much in the open.
Everything is not ok just because someone wants it. Sexual deviancy in Scouts is not acceptable.
You are not tolerant and accepting of the Scouts. You must not be an American. It is not your place nor your authority to tell us what we must do or say or think.
Actually it's non-sectarian and not specifically Christian. Moreover there are many gay-friendly Christian denominations, like the Episcopal church.
Unfortunately the national BSA is currently run by the American Taliban and is imposing the bigoted values of Mormons and Southern Baptists on all scouts in America, just like they did when the BSA had racially segregated troops.
Coolhand. I agree that there is an agenda, but they do have a constitutional right to express their opinion. That is America as it was founded. We must beware not to take away a fellow americans rights. For when we do that our own rights are in jeopardy.
There is something that always remain the same,A daily story de jour about homosexuals and a daily attack on some American institution the homosexuals have deemed to be homophobic and racist.They are forever causing problems.The BSA is a private organization that get no government funding and have the right to make the rules regarding regarding entrance rules.BSA are now no longer allowed to even rent a public building for use in thier gatherings.The communist party of america or the Aryan Brotherhood can get a permit and pay the fees and rent public space for meeting.But BSA,NO!
I know, right? Why can't those minorities learn their place better?
Next thing you know black people will want to sit at the front of the bus, and gays will want the same legal rights that straights already enjoy.
No gays in scouts means no gays in scouts. Get over it.
Don't get me wrong, I do not hate gay people. In fact, I am friends with more than a couple of gay people but it is a private organization they do not have to comply with anything. It's like a white guy trying to get into an all black school. It's like a woman trying to join an all male organization (shame on you PGA for folding to what the public wants and not what you want).
That is all.
White people do go to 'all black' schools....and the PGA did cave. It will only be time before the BSA does also.
yea. well when are blacks going to join the KKK?
butcher,
Not in your or my lifetime. Everyone is not as spineless as liberals.
Says the anonymous chicken@!$%#.
LOL so you mean we must never change and grow, never correct earlier thinking because it has been there before? They also prohibit atheists and agnostics, under the impression that only Christians are of value or able to have values. As a Christian, I have met men of values in all three levels. Matter of fact some of my breathen seem to lack heavy in that department. I will respect change when earned as this young man did, and frown on those that will follow the status quo simply because it had always been that way. If we did that, we would still be a land of slaves, or under the rule of an English government. Someone needs to make a wrong right and they will always be looked at as wrong....at first.
a cub scout,becomes a boy scout,after he eats his first brownie......
go figure
LOL Oh where do I begin? OK first off congrats to the local BSA who granting this deserving young man his rightful badge. He earned it. Second most of the child molesters are straight...Read your statistics. Third, You are born earthier gay or straight... Do straight people wake up on a Tuesday and say Hey I think I'll be straight It's the same for gay people. This is in a person genetics.. plain and simple. Forth and here is the biggie. I and others like my will be so glad when the world wakes up and realizes the silly sky being (god) does not exist. And the book of lies (bible) is just a scary fairytale. People slowly are waking up to the truth when your die you die. Religion was invented thousands of years ago because humans were and still are afraid to die. This is simple science...You are conceived (and not by some divine intervention)... You are born... You live your life from a a minute to a 100 years and you die...Plain and simple wake up fools and cast off your imaginary sky creature you worship and the book of lies.
Rick! Not according to most mental health experts and studies.Homosexuality is caused by some emotional trauma early in the life of a child.No one is born an ax murderer nor is anyone born a homosexual!
Rick,
He is not getting the badge. The CA council just says he should.
Perversion is perversion and we don't want it involved in Scouts; just as we would not want a thief or a murderer.
What you think about Scouts or the Bible or God is irrelevant. What we in Scouts think about IS the ONLY THING that is relevant on this subject.
My proof that there is a God? Easy answer: in this amazing, fantastic universe, humans are at the top of the chain? No way.
Next.
Rick...Christinaity has lasted for two thousand years. The new testament has more of the oldest manuscripts than any other book in history. Jesus said that "the gates of hell will not prevail against his church." Persecution only multiplies the church. The chinese church has been persecuted for decades and it is the fastest growing in the world. The scripture says. "The fool says in his hear their is not God. " I pray that someday you will meet him. He loves you and he died for you.
LOL you silly christians..wake up and see the truth
Green... your nuts.. you have been brainwashed but the lies from your bible...religion..all religions was created because humans were and still are afraid to die.. I will never meet your silly god neither will you as it doesn't exist.. mas.. ask ANY psychologist and they will tell you homosexuality is in genetics not a psychological deal. and it's been like that since the early 1970's.. go ahead and do your research..
Absolutely no peer-reviewed and validated study states this. The only study I've seen that is both the previous that deals with this subject made the clear statement that "no correlation can be made due to an inability to determine if the sexuality of the victim was the cause of the abuse, or if the abuse was the cause of the sexuality."
In other words, "chicken and egg" problem. Try again.
LOL ok silly right winged conservative christian...Eat at Chik-fil-a lately or watch the 700 club?
Many quote the Bible and take biblical phrases out of context to justify their intolerance and bigotry. If they really take the Bible literally, then they know that we are all a result of an inbreeding experiment started by Adam and Eve and completed by Noah and his family, so what 'evil' that humans do to the species should not be a surprise to anyone.
Well, wood, you are certainly proof of the inbreeding.
Oops, that was not nice. Sorry...well...kind of....
Wood, you are not far from the kingdom of God. you realize that all humanity is flawed. That is why Jesus came in to the world. He died to save us from ourselves. All we have to do is trust him with our lives. He will redeem our brokeness and he promises to make us new creatiions.
Not certain where folk get the idea about being reverant has something to do with religion, it has to do with "respect". Respect for yourself and those around you, which seems to miss the point with a few of the BSA leaders. The young man worked hard and obtained the level for the award and then was treated very unrespectifully by the people placed in the position of teaching that particular subject. The young man is gay, what has that to do with his work and other development within the scouts. So who is the better scout, the man who works and completes the requirements as aked or the man who denies him the honor because of some fear in the back of his mind.
candr,
For Scouts, reverent is one part of the Scout Law and pertains to worship of God.
Yes, this young man should never have been allowed to join.
Your points are well made but are not part of Scouts. Perversion is not accepted.
Candr. reverence has nothing to do with religion. it has to do with respecting an almighty God who has the power to smite you with one look. It is the proper response to his holiness. There is a lot of confusion these days bewteen God and religion. A relationship with God is what the Bible speaks about. it does not speak of religion. in fact that is what Jesus fought against. Religion gets in the way of the relationship. God wants our hearts, not our religious practices.
Oooh.....scary. Sounds like your silly cult is based on the fear that your imaginary friend will torture you.
Are you afraid of dust bunnies too?
Yet, it does not state which god, or even that it need be one idea of god.
I notice homosexuals never make direct comments so as to deflect from direct responses.Another example of your mean,little ways and how immature you are.Got to have your way and God forbide if anyone is allowed to directly respond to your lies!
mnbmnbnmbmnb
LJ, you said: I don't care what the scripture says. Religion should not be using any of their dogma to influence how we treat each other.
Which one of the Ten Commandments do you disagree with? Since they basically describe how people should treat each other.
mnb?
Some of the Ten Commandments make sense because it deals to blatant harm to other people and their property but religion isn't the only say in morality. That is the problem with you people, you think everyone should have to abide by your particular religious belief.
the BIBLE CLEARLY STATES that gay sexual relations are wrong and this should be basic enough to disallow him to recive the badge the LORD destroyed soddom and gamorra for this action and JESUS never aproved it sait sex was between male and female it is wrong so should end the discussion instead of 1%that are that way want to run the 99% that are straight
Hwo cares what a bunch of bronze age goat herders thought?
dave,
We care.
Don't like it? Then don't join.
Bye.
Perhaps you need a reeducation in the Bible as it pertains to the original languages and context, harold. If you received it, you might realize that at no point is homosexuality condemned in the Bible.
Leviticus: social code regarding the believed command of god to "be fruitful and multiple" combined with the belief that sex was solely for procreation
Sodom/Gamorrah: explicitly stated (Ezekiel) as having been destroyed for attempted rape, in-hospitality towards guests, pride, lack of compassion for the poor, etc etc...homosexuality never listed as the cause.
Jesus: never dictated that sex was for male/female only. He merely stated that marriage of a man/woman combined them into one. He also did not mention man/man or woman/woman, the lack of mention meaning he had no opinion on it either way.
BSA- dressing children up in theocratic para-military uniforms to regurgitate platitudes and hollow oaths...how quaint.
Yep and we like it that way.
Except the oaths are not hollow. Is your head?
Actually it sounds a lot like what the KKK does. Similar values too.
please california chapter of the boyscouts I ask you to close for business and never reopen in that peice of garbage communist state, or sue all the way to the supreme court and rid the scouts of the stink that being forced upon your organization. I will never again visit california or buy any item any way shape or form from that hell hole on earth, the law should not be broken just to give a fag a medal. the fag needs to be booted to the girlscouts if he wants to wear a dress. how discusting the state of california has just become. sue in federal court to overturn or just shut your doors.
Lol You just made me happy.
it does not take much to make you happy, a cucumber, pickle, horse, little boy etc, your name should have been sandusky. we will see your name on the 6 oclock news someday. please dont talk to me no more. i do not assocciate with people from your neck of the woods.
You sound like a pervert. I'm glad you left. You probably didn't "associate" with school either.
And yet another reported for gay slurs.