They clearly said in the article that the US Marines cannot order the club, a private organization, to accept the women. They DID say, however, that if the club wants to continue to host their events on US Marine bases, they need to stop discriminating based on sexual orientation. They are still free to host events off-base without the US Marines having any say in how they operate.

The Marine Corp did not decide who can join the club, it stated if that the group wants to use DOD facilities for their activities they can not exclude/discriminate based on sexual orientation. The wives club can easily move off base and do what they want.

I am afraid the Marine Corps is right. Rules have changed and discrimination is prohibited by federal law. It is a federal installation and they have the right to kick you off base if you do not comply. No one says you have to like it, but if you use federal facilities, you must accept it. DADT has been repealed and that is just they way it is.

yeah, I agree, equal rights for all in america? that's crazy talk! We should be more like iran, and treat people like second class citizens based on religious beliefs.

Hey, maybe you should move to iran, where you, too, can legally discriminate against gays and you can remove yourself from the "cesspool". Need some help packing? :)

Members have the right also to not attend activities or even drop membership. That may be an answer. This isn't about race either. White folks aren't on BET, Miss Black America etc. Apples and oranges.

that's a great idea, lets encourage perjury and assault against gays..in a loving, american way of course!

The homosexuals are getting what they want, but now we hear bitching because of the fact the clubs were ordered to accept them. There is no pleasing anybody!

THose Pesky homosexuals...what do they want...equal rights!

Perish the thought!

(SARCASM)

Alan Fisher...

I could tell you what you remind me of...

But the site would block it

ProFreedom-5130956 - The homosexuals are getting what they want, but now we hear bitching because of the fact the clubs were ordered to accept them. There is no pleasing anybody!

Didn't you just claim in another thread that you weren't a bigot and that "you have gay friends"?

Funny how you bigots so often have "Freedom" in your screen name.

I'm not sure I would recognize the military now from what it was when I was in. We have an average enlistment pay of $45K plus benefits and bonuses, people who are defenders of our freedom and country that are more concerned about their social lives than duty and those pregnant warriors that are ready to defend their country to their death (of the unborn and themselves I guess).

The military has become too big and an industry into itself. The first Americans had it right when they said the biggest threat to America is a large standing army.

The military can dictate a lot of things and take it out on the spouses if they desire. They are doing Mr. President Obama's bidding as he is the commander in chief. I may not agree with a lot of things our government is telling us to do any more. We live in interesting times, which is an understatement now.

@MarkM012757: Im glad you're out of the military too. The danger people with no rational thought pose to people on the field is really high. Your mental issues with homosexuality could have caused serious injuries on a battlefield as you decided rather or not to listen to a superior or help a comrade that was gay. You leaving the military was the best thing to happen to the military.

Personally I'm displeased that the Marines did this. Not because I didn't want them to, but because like you said it was a civilian organization and it would have been best if they had come to this decision on their own as a message to other groups out there that times are changing. Instead forcing it down peoples throats is going to cause more tensions and not really set a good example of working through issues on their own. I get that the Marines felt they HAD to handle it because it was linked so closely to them. None the less I wish the Wives Club had made the decision on thier own after some mulling it over. It would have been better.

The article got it wrong I think. If I remember right she is a Lt Col, not a Lt.

Well done Marines. Proactive is best.

While yes it would have been less of a big deal if every single wives club came out immediately and said they do not discriminate, odds are some would have said no, and then it would have become a much bigger issue. At least now, if they choose to, they can slip quietly into the night and disband. And while they may be a civilian group, as the guy stated, they do make use of Marine facilities and some MWR funding.

Jim-952823

UUUhhhh, so black people are like, born black. This does not go against the laws of nature. Being gay sort of does...go against the laws of nature

Last I checked, most credible research states you don't go gay simply because you want to. I know the Westborough Baptist nutjobs say different but do you really want to stand with them on that issue? The only real choice they are given is whether to hide the fact they are gay or not to. Which seems to be what our so called Christian society really wants. "You can be gay, but don't let us see you being gay. Otherwise you're just flaunting your 'lifestyle' ."

I think it's pretty clear, and would probably be proven conclusively were grantors and researchers intimidated by common prejudice, that gay is not a 'choice.' I'm convinced that gay or straight is inborn, and not a choice.

That said, I'm glad for anyone who joins the military these days, given that we are involved in so many fruitless wars that only suck $$$ and human lives in a vain effort to do what? I don't know what the mission is in either Iraq or Afghanistan, but I'll belive a close friend, just returned from deployment to Afghanistan, that nothing we do there will make any difference. We are on the losing end of a long line of would-be conquerers: Alexander the Great, Darius, Xerxes, probably plenty of other forces in between, the Brits, the USSR (which collapsed after its misadventures in Afghanistan), and now us.

There's a very good reason they call it the 'Graveyard of Empires.'

As to the immediate issue, the admission of gay husbands/wives into the various spouses' clubs, get with the program or get out. If you want the free facilities the military offers you, accept the rules of the military. I'm proud to know that the USMC, as hidebound an organization as there is, is accepting of the new rules. What's the difference of the sexual orientation of the person next to you, if you expect that person to have your back? I think I'd prefer someone who can shoot straight, understands the mission, and is willing to lay his/her body on the line.

Are you willing to do that?

Kolchak, there is a substantial difference between a mutually consensual sexual relationship between two adults and the exploitative, non-consensual, unequal relationship involved in pedophilia. Learn somthing.

Harley Mike - all we have to do is substitute the word "black" for the word "gay" in your little rant and you sound exactly like the southern bigots during the Civil Rights Movement in the 1960's. I would imagine that Rosa Parks didn't want to be where she wasn't wanted either, but she felt the principle was of greater importance than her comfort.

Jim - homosexuality does not go against the laws of nature. Every species has genetic variants and we will eventually come to realize that there is a strong genetic basis for homosexuality even if sexual orientation is not completely determined by genetics. Whether based on a simple genetic trait or a trait mediated by the fetal environment, so what. The question for a civilized society is whether we choose to relegate a portion of our society to second class citizenship because they are different from the majority even if their "difference" has no direct bearing on our relationship with "them".

Congratulations to the Marine Corps for understanding the spirit of the change in the military and taking appropriate action.

Equal rights for all tax-paying citizens. Brilliant!

The Military worries about gargle like this but yet lets our troops returning home from battle to fend for themselves,just what in the hell are we becoming...Our country is past fixable.

Vermontgay:

How can you equate something that is given at birth (like race) to something that people choose to do (like being gay)? At best being gay is brought about by social circumstances...and before you start in that it is innate please site a study that proves it.

In 2009, the American Psychological Association said "Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors”. For those that are "convinced" there is a genetic component to homosexuality, the APA has investigated the research and said it's not convinced of anything.

But let's say you determine a genetic basis for homosexuality, it doesn't prove it's moral. Since we've discovered genetic components to alcoholism, unfaithfulness and violence, does that make it these actions morally appropriate? Obviously the answer is no.

A straight man would not get away with being as fat as the LTC in picture.

So much for the Marines being the men's department fo the Navy

Mr. Joe Mike;

So much for being literate and honest. I take it for granted all you did was read the first sentence of of post #1.16, and right away your senses became inflamed. Sir, please go back and re-read the entire post.

You are obviously NOT a veteran, and do NOT have the foggiest clue what it takes to be a soldier. From the moment you arrived at Ft. Polk you are terrorized by this band of people wearing "Smokey Bear" type hats. You are thrown into a world where you must act and not re-act, it is a world where it is "us against them". You learn to bond with that scared, freshly shorn kid, next to you, if for nothing else at that point mental survival. Then in the following weeks you learn physical survival. As you are slowly molded into a soldier you become part of a team, one that follows superiors orders and dosen't question said orders because you have been trained that to not, can mean death. As you continue training you come to realize each man on the team is like a part of the human body.

With each part having its own distinctive function, try going out on a mission when one of your "feet" or "hands" or "legs" is laying in a bed hurt or sick. The last thing you realize is you miss him, "HIM" not a person of color or nationality or anything else. He is a part of you and you him.

As I stated in my previous post sir, we had a couple of "Gays" in our unit, and 40 years ago they were dealt with harshly, i.e. midnight blanket parties, cars being trashed, etc. but "Dr. J" and "Gallegos" never let on, and it was only discovered by accident. Now imagine if you will, the feelings of a bunch of "Macho Redneck" boys back then, we knew"What we should do" but these men had become a part of "US", we realized that these two would lay down their lives for the "team" and never think twice and we came to realize that we would do the same. It was a time of a lot of inner turmoil. They never DEMANDED anything, they were always soldiers first, the life they led was secretive and cautious. As I see it those men changed the outlook for 11 other men on our team and as I see it they did MORE for "GAY" rights than 10,000 "Flamers" marching in the streets of San Francisco.

I hope you stop and think before you post anymore about what those men did, as for all you know because of those 2 it created a ripple effect for the last 40 years that has allowed you to come out of your closet and announce yourself.

Change has always come slowly and forced change is not good, it only creates martyrs on one side of the topic and trouble makers on the other. I was being honest Sir when I said I do not approve of the "GAY" lifestyle, but it does not mean that I am or will be a green eyed, hairy monster with 6 inch fangs dripping blood in your quest for acceptance. Only that the heritage and culture I have come from sees it as an abomination, but because of those two men that to this day I would still willingly lay down my life for as well as the other 10 men that got to know them.

And sir, those women at Ft. Bragg are no Rosa Parks, I believe it was Dr. J & Gallegos were the fore runners, these women are seen more like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. Demanding their "rights" rather than doing their homework and working within the system to bring about a "good" change. As Grandma used to say, "You catch more fly's with honey than you do vinegar."

The Marines are ordering the recognition of the spouse into the Officers Wives Club, a private business, by suggesting it will withhold future business, yet not one branch of the military recognizes gay marriage.... interesting.

are you people serious? Prove that it's innate? How about YOU prove that WE CHOOSE IT? I never chose to be straight...i just was. When was your struggle to be straight or gay? Idiots.

To the OP ...

Officer’s Wives Club

Really? It's obvously you're not ready to handle any "modern" issues in the military. They got rid of Officers Wives Clubs (and, NCO Wives clubs) 20 years ago. News Flash: Officers have had HUSBANDS for decades!

If you haven't gotten THAT far, I'm not surprised at the rest of your post.

Allowing 1 percent of the population who choose to engage in the filthiest forms of sexuality known in nature to get their way like this is really pathetic.

This has nothing to do with permitting Catholic Priests into the clubs, stay on target!

Allowing 1 percent of the population who choose to engage in the filthiest forms of sexuality known in nature to get their way like this is really pathetic.

This has nothing to do with permitting Catholic Priests into the clubs, stay on target!

Yeah, MarkM, good thing you retired, you know, while the world moved on. Definately no more room for cave men in the military. Slow speed is for the past, for sure.

Harley Mike - They never DEMANDED anything, they were always soldiers first, the life they led was secretive and cautious. As I see it those men changed the outlook for 11 other men on our team and as I see it they did MORE for "GAY" rights than 10,000 "Flamers" marching in the streets of San Francisco.

Your comment sounds exactly like a racist white guy asking black civil rights activists to be good little negros who know their place better.

So sorry you're offended that gays are asking for the same rights you already enjoy.

I really don't see what the big deal is. If you spend any time outside of a bubble, you learn "how to work" with lots of people slightly different than you. It's not hard, because you quickly learn they are not very different from you at all. Once you get past telling pigish jokes.

I would think the bigger change was when the "wives" club became the "spouses" club. If I were deploying, I would be far more concerned about her hanging at the club with the also-lonely straight husbands of deployed female soldiers, than I would be of her hanging with the lesbian wives or gay men husbands.

vermontguy Comment collapsed by the community

who was ordered to become a homosexual?

Hey, if the ft bragg club wants to disband instead of discriminating, that is their choice. They are free to act like 5 year olds and "take their ball and go home" if they want. :)

By the way, if you substitute "black" for "gay" do you change your mind? just curious how that situation differs..or if you support racism too?

You are more than welcome to substitute "black" in for "gay" and MarkM012757's point would still be valid. The KKK has every right to believe what they want. They have every right to exclude people from joining their organization.. just like country clubs and other PRIVATE organizations.

Private organizations (not federally supported ones) can make their own rules AND exclude whoever they want based on whatever they want...

WELCOME TO AMERICA!!!!

This lady is more than welcome to create her own group for LGBT spouses'... but she doesn't want to do that... She wants to FORCE an organization to accept her...

This crap is out of hand!!!

" ... Apples and oranges. ... "

No. It's about Civil Rights. It's about equal rights/protection under the law.

It's about the Constitution. You know the one. The one that the Right waves around all the time. Especially when they "think" that their rights are being violated.

And "Apples and oranges" only show just how fearful, hateful and ignorant the commenter, and those that agree with them, really are.

Huh. Imagine that.

Bella.Angel - Private organizations (not federally supported ones) can make their own rules AND exclude whoever they want based on whatever they want...

True, but if they want to use base facilities they need to comply with DoD non-discrimination policies.

That's the reason your fellow bigots in the KKK aren't allowed to have their clubhouse on base.

George from Wa. State

" ... Apples and oranges. ... "

No. It's about Civil Rights. It's about equal rights/protection under the law.

It's about the Constitution. You know the one. The one that the Right waves around all the time. Especially when they "think" that their rights are being violated.

And "Apples and oranges" only show just how fearful, hateful and ignorant the commenter, and those that agree with them, really are.

Huh. Imagine that.

I think it's funny you quote the constitution. private organizations have the FREEDOM and the RIGHT to assemble and exclude whoever they want as long as they don't receive federal money.

What you are proposing is taking away an organization's rights so that Broadway can force her rights on others.

A TRUE Constitutionalist would tell you that Broadway is the one infringing on the rights of others by trying to force her way in a private organization.

She wants to be apart of a club??... make her own... problem solved. But I doubt she will. Because the true point is not about equality or the constitution (i just proved that)... its about her getting her way.

Time to grow up don't you think?

She wants to FORCE an organization to accept her.

If that organization uses public funds and resources, then GOOD FOR HER.

No money of mine should be used to support a bigoted organization.

She wants to be apart of a club??... make her own... problem solved

If they want to exclude her from their club, they should stop using federally provided locales.

THAT'S the TRUE point.

Mr. SKREKK;

Sorry Sparky, you missed the boat on this one. Dr. J is Black, about 20% of my friends are black, including "one 'lil' Brother from a different Mother" (because of age)as I call him and he calls me (because of size), 3 of my neices are Mullatto(mother-white/father-black), one Aunt -Japanese, one cousin -amer/asian, one sister in law -Vietnamese 2 nephews, 1neice amer/asian, one brother in law Puerto Rican with 1 nephew 'Latina' and last but not least 1 very loving Uncle (maternal side) that came out of the closet in '86 and that me and my 8 siblings would rip a kidney out of our own bodies for if he needed it.

Again Sparky, I think my "Family Tree" TRUMPS" Jesse Jacksons "rainbow coalition" into looking like a '50's TV version of Ozzie & Harriet. So, keep trying to put the "Hater" Label on me, as you may be pointing a finger at me but, your proving Grandma right by pointing 3 fingers back at yourself., and proving you are nothing more than a "Troll" and are not trying to have an honest/open discussion and NOT being a veteran yourself, just trying overall to continually stir the pot of dis-content on these pages. Sir, I bid you good day, and as Granma also used to say, "God Bless You"

Bella,

They are completely free to move their private entity behinds off of PUBLICLY OWNED AND FUNDED land, and then use their rights to discriminate all they want.

It seems YOU missed THAT point. Or do you think that any private entity can use our tax payer funded facilities in any manner they want???

Please quote where anyone has said they don't have the right to be as bigoted as they want on their own property.

Harley Mike - Sorry Sparky, you missed the boat on this one. Dr. J is Black, about 20% of my friends are black

Cool, so you claim to have "black friends". Perhaps you should tell them they should be good little negros and learn to know their place better, like you told gays at #1.34, and then ask them whether they're still your friends?

I am glad I retired from the military before the Marine Corp Leaders decide to order you to become a become a homosexual.

OH please continue on with this rant!!!! LMFAO!!!!! You think that they are trying to make you become homosexual by saying you can't deny homosexuals membership in a Spouses Club if they are going to conduct their meetings and business on base or at department of defense facilities???? That is pathetically hilarious. Whether you like it or not, if you were still in the military actually fighting, chances are a homosexual would be there covering your ass. @!$%#, a homosexual probably did cover or save your ass at some point if you were ever actually in combat. I think they deserve as much acceptance and recognition as you do.

Personally I would love to see the Marine Corps focus on what they are trained to do and not have to deal with who can and can't go into a club.

It's good to see the Marines put their foot down on this bigoted crap, especially since General Amos initially opposed the repeal of DADT. But once repeal happened he got fully behind it and implemented the new policy very effectively, actually faster than the other branches.

Hopefully all the branches will adopt this policy about private clubs which use DoD facilities.

Jim, what makes you think everyone in WW2 was a fundie? If you think there aren't/weren't "athiests in foxholes", not to mention jews and regular christians that don't fall into the fundie crowd, then you don't know America.

Actually, the hypocrisy is pretty blatant. The military won't give gay spouses an ID card, recognizing the marriage, but expects the wife's club to recognize it.

Force them to pay for abortions, that others have, thru common insurance.

You mean like we do for the quackery known as conversion therapy?

Tell them they can not talk about their faith (all the while allowing every other religion to do so)

Last I checked, Christianity is still the biggest and most supported religion in the U.S..

Force them to take down any outward sign, symbol or indication of Christ (while allowing every other religion to have whatever they want)

Last I checked, "In God We Trust" is still present in most court rooms and Islamic and Jewish symbols are not.

Ignore Israel.

Last I checked, giving Israel 3 billion a year, plus tanks, jets, missiles, arms and munitions wasn't considered ignoring them.

Your entire post is that of ignorance. The America you grew up in was of one that solely favored white Christians. Your post wreaks of that fact.

This is not the America created in 1776.

You're right. We have since abolished slavery, gave minorities and women basic rights and are working towards equality for all. Must really chap your ass, right?

This is not the America my family has fought to protect for the last 75 years - serving in the Air Force, Navy and Army.

And that's a good thing. The 23 years I served, was spend fighting for equality for all and not just Heterosexual Christians.

The Marines are wrong on this one. I am truly surprised that they caved. Just shows how much they have lost in knowing and doing what is right.

The DoD does not recognize same sex marriages as being valid due to the Defense of Marriage Act. Therefore, there can be no legal same sex marriage for military members and no spouse. Ergo, no legitimate "right" to join a military spouse club.

The Marines are wrong.

To all those that say this isn't what you fought for when you served in the military. I want you to think of this: How many of those men and women that you served along side of, in the trenches, jungles, deserts, on the high seas etc. were actually homosexual? Because if you think FOR EVEN ONE SINGLE SECOND that every person who shed blood, lost their lives, were heroic in their last seconds on earth, or provided comfort to their dying friends with bullets zinging past their heads, while fighting to keep this nation safe, was a deeply religious, white bread, heterosexual red blooded American boy/girl you've go another thing coming. Homosexuals have always been a part of the military, and they always will be.

And the actions taken by the Marines (and soon, hopefully, the other branches of the military) with this order does nothing but honor those that serve. It provides them with the dignity they so rightly deserve.

The thought that it was only Christians in the military until recently is absolutely ridiculous. Gay men have died for the freedom of speech and all the other freedoms that are enjoyed while defending this country. Any other thought on the matter is ridiculous.

There are highly documented cases of WW2 where there were gay witch hunts. Most of these, of course, happened state side and the military conveniently didn't care when people were actually being shot at. However, by all means, if it makes someone feel comfortable that only straight Christian men fought and died for our country, it's your right to such delusions.

For those complaining it's "gay this or gay that" on a daily basis, I am sure it there were people who said "it's women this and women that" or "black this or black that." When a group of people stand up for their rights, those who oppose them will forever resent that they wont go away. Soon, it wont matter and being gay wont be talked about because it will just be a normal part of functioning society. There will always be those that will be opposed. Much like the men that are opposed to women servicing in Congress or preaching from behind a Christian pulpit, they will be seen as antiquated and wrong. Fear will always give way to hatred. Unfortunately, those with the most hate tend to be the most vocal and hide under the guise of "righteousness" when they are in fact causing harm to their fellow man.

As an ordained Christian minister, I find the conservative, Fundamentalist, American Christian Taliban repugnant to no end. Any Christian who thinks they are suffering and/or forced into a "closet" situation have brought it on themselves. We more sensible Christians laugh when we hear we are being PPCs (Po' persecuted Chris-chuns) because it simply isn't true. What we do see taking place is that the small religious right wing is being held in check, and rightly so. Sorry, you wacky whiners get no sympathy from us... only prayers and hope that you get off of your pity potties in quick order.

Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

Wholeheartedly agree with vermontguy and ross. How "DARE" those who are homosexual stand up for their rights!! They should lie down and take it! Unbelievable. It's amazing how many disgusting, ignorant people there are still left in this world, and this country, in particular. You're offended by the gay lifestyle? Don't engage in it. It does not mean they are not still US Citizens who have a right to the same freedoms we all have. Who the hell do you all think you are to say what they can and cannot do. What gives you the right?

Thomas the Tank, Gail, & others - go crawl back into the holes you come from. Whether you like it or not, equal rights are coming for all, whether it is in the near or distant future. Your oppression of others who are unlike you is sickening, and you will have to face facts eventually. Those who are homosexual have done NOTHING to you or the other homophobes out there - you just cannot understand that others do not have to live like you in order to be given the same basic rights. Please don't procreate and bring more heathens into the world like yourselves.

,

Dakotahgeo

Amen and God Bless. :)

On a side note, This Navy Girl joined the Navy to defend America and her Citizens, not just the ones I liked or who's opinions I shared.

And as a reminder, once you are standing in MEPS swearing your oath to the service of your country, you are sworn to protect that Gay service member and his/hers family just as much as all the others families of this nation. Just as they are sworn to protect you. So quit your bellyacking and do your duty you signed up for and come home safe.

The Marines are suggesting it will withhold future business if the Officers Wives Club, a private business, doesn't allow a gay spouse entrance, yet not one branch of the military recognizes gay marriage.... interesting.

It appears the Marines are forcing someone to recognize something that technically doesn't exist.

It appears the Marines are forcing someone to recognize something that technically doesn't exist.

Doesn't matter if the services recognize it via dependent status...the servicemembers and spouse are legally married by their state (which is the only requirement for a marriage to be valid).

It appears the Marine Corps are ahead of the time, despite the General who railed so hard against removing DADT.

@NYMike: Well said. My father was a lifer in the US Army. He was very critical of gays (other not so nice terms were used in his colorful vocabulary) and didn't believe they should serve. Then one day he realized his daughter was one of them. How things changed. Love you pop. Always did, always will. The Armed Forces fight for the USA not USMe.

Actually, the hypocrisy is pretty blatant. The military won't give gay spouses an ID card, recognizing the marriage, but expects the wife's club to recognize it.

The hypocrisy lies with Congress. The military can't issue the ID cards because DOMA prohibits it. The spouses clubs (they're not all wives, you know) are not covered by DOMA because they're a private organization. By the way, the clubs DON'T have to accept same-sex spouses if they're willing to forgo military support.

Doesn't matter if the services recognize it via dependent status...the servicemembers and spouse are legally married by their state (which is the only requirement for a marriage to be valid).

There are NO federal laws requiring recognition of same sex marriage in the military even if they are legally married by their state. Federal law trumps state law every time. So, technically the Marines DO NOT recognize same sex marriage, yet they expect a private business to do what they don't do? It smacks of hypocrisy, doesn't it?

rabbit trail - So, technically the Marines DO NOT recognize same sex marriage, yet they expect a private business to do what they don't do?

Actually the Marines are requiring that any private clubs which want to use base facilities not discriminate on the basis of gender or sexual orientation. That policy is 100% consistent with the repeal of DADT.

Well, I can see how that would work just fine for the women's/wives clubs, but it would seem to be a bit awkward when it comes to a woman showing up at an all men's/husbands club?

I can only imagine the ribbing a woman might take in the men's shower.

Federal law trumps state law every time.

Except the federal government doesn't issue marriage licenses, and can't even annul or object to them. That is delegated to the states. All the federal government can do is determine federal benefits.

While the Marine Corps, as a branch of the federal institute DoD, does not provide benefits to same-sex spouses per DoD, they can still chose to provide protections as per the law. In this case, they have determined that barring a spouse from membership in the spouse's club is discrimination based upon sex, a federally protected status.

Well, I can see how that would work just fine for the women's/wives clubs, but it would seem to be a bit awkward when it comes to a woman showing up at an all men's/husbands club?

Spouse's clubs have been non-gender specific for quite awhile now.

Dakotahgeo - By your post, is this how you think ordained ministers should conduct themselves? Insulting people in online forums?

To Dakotahgeo 2.19, Matt 7:20-23

Another sad day to see this stuffed down our throats. Decency does not count anymore, and values are gone to the toilet.

Just a few quotes from Tank the bigot and his ancestors taken from over the years.

"The Indians rights are ruining my country, "god" said so. This isn't the America I fought for."

"The Asians rights are ruining my country, "god" said so. This isn't the America I fought for."

"The Blacks rights are ruining my country, "god" said so. This isn't the America I fought for."

"The Womans rights are ruining my country, "god" said so. This isn't the America I fought for."

"The Gays rights are ruining my country, "god" said so. This isn't the America I fought for."

" ... subjected to a few sick people ... "

If you mean "sick" like you, then I agree.

" ... stuffed down our throats. ... "

Nothing is being "stuffed" anywhere that belongs to you. You don't like it? Then don't belong/participate. That is YOUR right. Just don't violate theirs because you don't. It's that easy.

" ... Decency does not count anymore ... "

It appears that it doesn't to a vocal group on the Right and some Christians. But to the rest of us, yes it does.

" ... and values are gone to the toilet ... "

No actually, they haven't. It's just that most of us don't want the values of the few, "stuffed down our throats". You know, sort of like you wanting yours "stuffed" down the throats of everyone else. Because yours are so much better. Values like fear, hate, bigotry and ignorance. Now there are some "family values" for you.

" ... Why must Christians hide their faith??? ... "

They don't. Not at all. It's their right to practice it. And I have and will defend their, your , right to do so.

Just don't knock on my door and try to sell it to me. Which happens quite frequently.

Just don't throw it in my face all the time. Like most Christians do.

Just don't use it like a bludgeon on everyone. Like way, way to damned many Christians do.

Just stop using it as an excuse for your fear, hate, bigotry and ignorance.

Stop hiding behind it, and practice it like it was ment to be. And start practicing it the way it was ment to be. You know. Like Jesus did. You remember Jesus don't you? Christianity is based on his teachings. On how he lived his life.

To way to many Christians today, Jesus would be a "Socialist", an outcast. And I believe that when he saw the way some, many Christians act today, he'd be one really pissed-off mother@!$%#er!

But that's just my opinion. And being a non-Christian, my opinion really doesn't count. Does it.

Huh. Imagine that.

I wonder who was lying in fox holes, storming the beaches, in the pacific and Europe during world war 2, standing around a jeep taking communion in the snow, having pastors, Priests, risking their lives giving last rights while bullets are flying by thier heads, all so you can sit here and bitch.

Well yes, along with some Jews, Muslims, a couple Asians, Atheists, some Blacks, a few women, and oh yes a BUNCH OF GAY PEOPLE. Do you really think they weren't around and fighting back then???

Speaking as a Marine their just following orders or a directive that came down.

Marines follow orders.

Yes Sarah they were around back then and kept quiet about their deviant behavior and no there were not a bunch of them

Hate to break it to you, they were just as gay and there were just as many of them.

Yes Sarah they were around back then and kept quiet about their deviant behavior and no there were not a bunch of them

Actually not all of them did. They just weren't turned in to HQ.

And a good thing too. God bless America!

Yes...a terrible thing...because God only likes "normal" people...we wouldn't want a country of fellowship and love, now, would we? The poor hypocrites wouldn't have anything to preach against come Sunday morning...

God loves all of His children, gay and straight.

Define normal?...i must have read the wrong new testament, I thought jesus taught love, compassion, acceptence, understanding, respect, forgiveness...and some other junk, but of course my church has parties, dinners and such with our muslim neighbors...Dear Lord, we will surely go the hell for doing what the Bible says..(blank stare)..

Kimbo - Where does the Bible say that homosexuality is an abomination?

What exactly is being "forced" on you, Kimbo?

"against the laws of nature"? lol, where can I read these "laws"? can I order them from a bookstore?

I think your attitude is repulsive, can I force you back into a closet? :)

This shouldn't be up to the Marine commander.

The Supreme Court should decide it.

Yeah you bigot, Rocky Rhode, GOD does love all his children, gay and straight. Even bigots and haters like you. Unfortunately.

Hi Vermount . How's it goin?

Rocky - BIGOTRY is repulsive to normal people.

What is being forced on me is that fact that if I don't agree with homosexuality or don't agree that they should be married, have equal rights, etc., then I'm a bigot, homophobic, etc., etc.

What do you call that?

Until the Marines recognize her as a legal spouse the club shouldn't be forced too.

...Except people in consenting adult incestuous relationships or people who perfer relations with animals. God hates those people because that is just disgusting and wrong. F-ing hypocrites.

mcgusto: this is a marine policy question, why shouldn't the marine commander decide it? Its not a criminal code situation where you might want to wait for the legal system to churn.

Its a simple organizational decision...you can't say on one hand "we accept gays in the active forces" but "their spouses aren't welcome on our base".

D O M A is still a law.

The military can not go against Federal law.

Get rid of DOMA and then they could join the club.

They are not Federally recognized as spouses.

Do anyone not agree with that?

kimbo: being called names is what is being "forced" on you? lol. that's funny. Stupid, but funny.

nothing is being "forced" on you, as evidenced by the fact that you couldn't come up with a single thing that you can't do because of allowing gay marriage.

BTW - being called a bigot when you are a bigot..I call that the truth. :)

Federally speaking they are just girlfriends.

Well?

Vermount????

Yes Kimbo you are a bigot.

That is what it is called, of course you can be a bigot all you want. That is your right. It is also societies right to marginalize you and ignore you and not let you play anymore reindeer games.

MC Gusto

Uh DOMA does NOT outlaw gay marriage, it states that individual states do not have to recognize them. Military Bases are Federal Property and under the command of the Executive Branch. They are not subject to state laws.

BTW DOMA is dead, the funeral has been set.

Only the Bigots like you are on the wrong side of history.

The sad part here is that you believe your words are true. As a christian myself Jesus said, "Love ye one another as I have loved you!" his greatest commandment was to LOVE and not judge each other! This what we are getting away from!!

mcgusto: are you so sure that DOMA applies to this ruling? I'm not. And the fact that the marines publicly "broke the law" indicates to me that they, too, don't think doma actually applies here.

What MoGusto is saying is that their marriage is not LEGALLY RECOGNIZED as a marriage by the Marine Corps - go look it up, you'll find it.

And the Spouses Club is a private organization.

What they are saying is that you can't discriminate based on sexual orientation due to the DADT repeal - they never said that the spouse was a SPOUSE LEGALLY recognized by the Marine Corps - they can't do that.

Go out and look up DADT repeal - it will tell you that military branches recognize that homosexuality is now a protected class in the military after the repeat of DADT. They cannot be prosecuted any longer, they don't have to hide who they are, they are allowed to same-sex date, be seen (out of uniform of course), kissing a member of the same sex, holding hands, etc.

BUT - until, if, when DOMA is repealed or changed, they cannot be recognized as LEGAL SPOUSES and receive a military ID card, military benefits, unrestricted access to military facilities, nor receive consideration for joint-spouse assignment (if both are active duty, etc.).

So this "spouse" has no legal protection as a spouse under military law, hence the reason she has been designated as a caregiver to get her on-base, because she can't get an ID card.

So my point is, and I believe McGusto's also - she is not a legally recognized spouse under federal law, this has nothing to do with state law and military bases/branches operate under the federal umbrella, not the state umbrella and are required, by law, to recognize ALL federal laws, but not necessarily all state laws.

Kimbo47 - What is being forced on me is that fact that if I don't agree with homosexuality or don't agree that they should be married, have equal rights, etc., then I'm a bigot, homophobic, etc., etc.

I know, right?

Just because you think you deserve special rights and privileges and that certain Americans should be denied those rights and treated as 2nd-class citizens, everybody thinks you're a bigot. It's just not fair!

kimbo: see, that's the thing..unlike, say, health benefits which are a legal part of the employment contract, items like this club might fall under policy, not law..and hence doma may well not apply.

again..explain how the marine corp commander and all his legal advisers are wrong, and you are right. go for it!

The Army Spouses Club did not admit her because she was gay, it's because she's not a spouse - she has no ID card listing her as a spouse, so therefore they were not required, legally to recognize her as a spouse and were well within their rights to deny her entry for that reason alone.

Hence the reason no lawsuit has been filed - go look it up - no lawsuit has been filed. Because they don't have a legal leg to stand on with DOMA still in place.

She is not a spouse, she is a caregiver and the bylaws state "spouses." She's not one per the Army, hence the reason they have not forced them to let her join.

So as far as DOMA and where it applies here - she is not a legally, federally recognized spouse, so she doesn't fit the terms of the bylaws on who can join. And since this a private organization they are legally allowed to decide who can join, just like the VFW, American Legion, all girls/boys Catholic Schools, etc., they are not held to the same laws.

The only reason the Marine Corps directed this is because this PO uses government facilities to hold it's meetings. All they have to do is hold them off the installation and then the Marine Corps cannot direct them to allow anyone...simple solution if that's what they wish to do.

And if, when DOMA is repealed to recognized same-sex marriage, then she will be recognized as a legal spouse and I'm sure her application will be accepted, until then...DOMA rules at the Federal level and military is Federal level - why can't you guys understand that - just go research it - I'm not pulling this out of my butt.

Kimbo47 - The Army Spouses Club did not admit her because she was gay, it's because she's not a spouse - she has no ID card listing her as a spouse, so therefore they were not required, legally to recognize her as a spouse and were well within their rights to deny her entry for that reason alone.

Actually that was a brand new policy they created just in order to exclude her.

No such requirement existed before, and unmarried girlfriends were often allowed to be members.

Read it again and do some research.

Unmarried girlfriends were allowed to "attend meetings" not become "members" - big difference.

Girlfriends are not allowed to be actual "members" of a spouse's club - hence the term spouse's.

Doesn't matter if it was a brand new policy or not, they had the legal right to implement it and deny her "membership" because she wasn't a card carrying legally recognized spouse on the federal level.

So it doesn't matter if it's wrong, right, bad, indifferent - the point is it was done legally and is protected. It is what it is.

Until DOMA is repealed, then they didn't break the law and don't have to admit her.

Don't have to agree with it, but it is what it is.

I think too much is being made of it anyway. Why would someone want to join an organization that didn't want them? I wouldn't, it's just another way of shoving it down everyone's throat.

Kimbo47 - Doesn't matter if it was a brand new policy or not, they had the legal right to implement it and deny her "membership" because she wasn't a card carrying legally recognized spouse on the federal level.

Nobody's saying they don't have the right to deny membership, but the DoD also has the right to deny facilities access to the dumb bigots.

As a private club they also have the right to deny membership to mixed-race couples or black people (as such clubs used to do), but that doesn't mean the DoD has to tolerate your bigoted crap today.

kl2828 - God also wants everyone to turn away from sin.

"I sent the club a wire stating, "PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CLUB THAT WILL ACCEPT PEOPLE LIKE ME AS A MEMBER". - Julios Henry Marx (Groucho)

NOTE: Nothing political intended here, folks. Just a little levity for the morning's posters.

("A likely story - and probably true." - Also Groucho . . .)

MarxistMayhem, you're gonna hate the next joint chiefs of staff meeting. All of those generals in drag. I requested an invitation in your name. They're gonna luv you. Just imagine all of those hugs and kisses.

The Marines are wrong on this one. I am truly surprised that they caved. Just shows how much they have lost in knowing and doing what is right.

The DoD does not recognize same sex marriages as being valid due to the Defense of Marriage Act. Therefore, there can be no legal same sex marriage for military members and no spouse. Ergo, no legitimate "right" to join a military spouse club.

The Marines are wrong.

some things are just against the laws of nature

Since homosexuality is present throughout nature, I think you should rethink your statement.

Jesus Christ MC Gusto is a stupid @!$%#ing troll.

Ive read ignorant posts before but kimbo is like....advanced ignorance. What is changing in your daily life and affects you so greatly now that gay spouses are allowed in these clubs? What is being forced down your throat? No one is forcing you to change your bigoted mind. The country will keep moving forward regardless of idiots like you trying to hold us back. You are free to live the life you choose! You cannot force your homophobic feelings on the homosexuals who want equal rights. It is in fact the homophobes who are forcing THEIR lifestyles down homosexuals throat by delaying equal rights every day!!!!

@MC Gusto

Don't spam. You could have put all of that in one post. By spamming you simple look like you're demanding attention.

That actually would be funny when they give the wrong person the wrong vibes, and get their jaw broken, and then arrested to boot.

I like biker chicks.....but who's butch?

Biker chicks and Polygamous wifes! Now that will be interesting since now that they allow same sex marriages they will soon have to allow polygamy. Yep, just around the corner. Hey, bigotry of any kind should be totally elimated right?

Butch was the boxer in Pulp Fiction. Most army wife's are fat so maybe having some diversity would do them good.

Now that will be interesting since now that they allow same sex marriages they will soon have to allow polygamy.

Slippery slope logical fallacy.

If you are using Christianity to justify hate and intolerance, you missed the most basic concept that Jesus taught. Go back and study some more.

Now that will be interesting since now that they allow same sex marriages they will soon have to allow polygamy.

Please explain your thought process. The case for marriage equality is based on "equal protection" -- gays, unlike heterosexuals, are denied the right to marry the consenting adult to whom they are sexually and romantically attracted. Since no one is permitted multiple legal spouses, there's no equal protection argument. That's why it is, as Allswell puts it so well, a "logical fallacy."

Editing is terrible these days in most news sources. If we disqualify articles for mistakes like that, there would be very little to read, unfortunately. :(

no one ask what you thought, fo.

And that Lt Col broke the LAW (military law) for 15 years before Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed.

And I don't think her or her "wife" and I use that term extremely loosely should be rewarded for it - period.

oooh, kimbo, you must be soooo angry. lol. boo hoo hoo, they "broke the law" by being gay. file charges! make a citizen's arrest! lol.

I don't want to make an arrest.

But they should also not be villified, recognized or honored.

In the eyes of the military - she was a "criminal" before DADT was repealed.

So she has no honor.

i'm sure YOU don't think she has "honor". yawn. As a homophobic bigot, your opinion on such matters is worthless.

Apparently not, she won't be joining any spouses club in the Army, now will she?

Kimbo Kimbo Kimbo

Oh what will we do with you?

She will join, that will be corrected.

By the way the average gay man has not had anything down his throat that you have not had since you were about 10. And no gay man has any interest in yuor throat now.

Begone bigot

kimbo: i'll bet that all military branches will soon have the same policy of accepting gays at wives club. You bigots are losing, you just refuse to admit it. :)

I don't care, I don't belong to one.

And still will never accept or agree with it, regardless of what changes.

It will NEVER, EVER be accepted by me.

I can live with that - can you?

FranklyTrue,

Now you're stepping outside of the bounds of decency.

Did someone let you out of the trailer for a while?

BTW - I don't live in one, never have.

Kimbo47 - And that Lt Col broke the LAW (military law) for 15 years before Don't Ask, Don't Tell was repealed.

How exactly? DADT simply required that she not reveal to the military that she was gay.

It was a rather bizarre and unfair Jim Crow law, but it didn't prohibit gays from serving.

i can definitely live with your opinion, what you think in your own head is your business. what I object to are people with your same opinion who oppose equal rights for all, which is unamerican.

If you want to say "i don't believe that being gay is right, but I support their right to equality in marriage", then i'm right behind you.

That was DADT, enacted during the Clinton era.

Before DADT, it was a question asked and if you answered NO, then you broke military law.

Because homosexuals were prohibited from military service before DADT and after DADT. The difference being is that they could not longer ASK your sexual orientation after DADT was put into law. And if you didn't volunteer the information or be caught in same-sex activity, then by law you were safe.

But prior to DADT, the question was asked and if you lied - then you broke MILITARY law.

Plain and simple, cut and dried, whether you agree with it or not.

Gays have probably always served and I'm sure served honorably - don't deny that - but prior to DADT, they had to lie to join - however you want to sugarcoat it, they had to lie.

And see that's where we disagree - I don't believe gay marriage is an equal rights issue. I just don't - don't have to agree with me, but I don't believe denying gay people the right to marry is infringing on anyone's inherent rights - there is no RIGHT in the consititution that gives any the RIGHT to marry - so whose rights are getting trampled?

Sorry - we're just not on the same page and never will be and you know what - that's okay - THAT is what being an American is all about - the right to agree to disagree.

Kimbo47 - Because homosexuals were prohibited from military service before DADT and after DADT. The difference being is that they could not longer ASK your sexual orientation after DADT was put into law.

False. Clinton repealed the Reagan-era directive when DADT was passed so there was no longer a prohibition on gays serving.

And see that's where we disagree - I don't believe gay marriage is an equal rights issue.

Bigots exactly like you also thought that mixed-race marriage wasn't a civil rights issue.

The civil right in question which you seem unfamiliar with is called "equal protection of the law". It's why you bigots are on a losing streak in court on the marriage equality issue, and it's why every federal court which has ruled on the merits of DOMA have found it unconstitutional.

Kimbo she has no honor? I'm guessing you've never served in our armed forces. ANYONE who serves in our armed forces has honor and is a hero. Speaking as a gay Veteran of our United State Armed Forces I would appreciate it if you don't bring your religious beliefs into saying whether someone has honor. I'm sure you've committed plenty of sins in your life unless you live in a bubble, which im starting to think you do. I commend ALL our Armed Service personnel whether they be straight or gay for fighting for our country and putting their lives in danger. The least you can say to this Lt. Col is THANK YOU!!!!

Kimbo47,

It is in the Constitution... the 14th Amendment... Equal Protection Clause. Unfortunately, it's a slow process and it's not fair that gay people have to fight to legally enforce their rights.

You should also stop the garbage that being gay before DADT was such a horrible thing. It's like saying that going a few miles over the speed limit is in the same league as killing a car full of people from drunk driving. I'd very much doubt that you follow ALL local, state and federal laws to the letter. Should people question your citizenship because of that, since that's what YOU'RE doing by questioning the honor of military personel simply because they served before it was acceptable to allow gays.

Ok to all of the people who are saying that God hates Homosexuals, that is not true, He does not hate the homosexual he hates there sin!

Kimbo ---

You don't have to agree with the lifestyle - but she never broke the law - Check your facts -

Don't ask Don't Tell was enacted in 1993 and repealed in Sept 2011. So if she has been with her partner for 15 years - that would mean she has been with her since about 1997. She NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN ASKED. No military law broken - she never lied, because she was never asked.

And no - I am not gay - but have family members who are - One of which served in the Army in the 50's! All it takes is a simple GOOGLE search to check your facts before you go spouting off about broken laws............

Thank you!

oh, it most definitely is all about ratings and money...its capitalism at its finest.

Yes, bigotry is disgusting.

No, Mr. Binkie, you are disgusting.

Yes, so-called christians wanting to deny day people equality and equal rights is totally disgusting and very, very unamerican and not patriotic. It's what you would expect from a Sharia Law country like Iran or Saudi Arabia. I guess people like Binkie want to turn the US into a country like Iran. That IS disgusting.

Sandy, I so agree with you! I hate fairy tale believing cult worshiping christians (i really do) dissing the DAY (sp) people like dat.

Now the NIGHT people (aka vampires) have got it go on - they can suck on anything or anyone and no one gives them crap OR anograms to look up.

Excuse me -- whisper mumble mumble - Gay PEOPLE?

Never mind.

Ops - anagrams

Rev,

I love your avatar! The man burns in 229 days!!!

Yeah Henry, can't wait but still trying to see straight from August - OPS - l guess I shouldn't use the word straight on this thread, lets rephrase it to - I'm still trying to get white dirt out my arse. ;)

I guess most religious prople ust don't like "day" people.

So much hate on this vine - from both sides of almost every issue.

What's with the assumption that all homophobes are Christian? I'm sure there are plenty of atheist bigots out there, too. Let's not exclude them.

Mr. Binkie, you do have the right to disrespect yourself, but it's not an emotionally healthy thing to do. Don't let Kimbo47 dissuade you either. Look what happened to him, out of self disrespect?! Not pretty!

Religion bashers, because intellectual position is so weak. Query? Why should sexual practice be accepted by any other than participant? I for one have never heard of a heterosexual acceptance campaign. If you have I would like to read the literature. P.S. Contemplate before you answer, as this requires thought out response.

oh i don't know bob....because heterosexuals are banned from anything FOR being heterosexual? Even Gay and Lesbian groups allow heterosexuals that support their equal rights cause....are you kidding me?

Why should sexual practice be accepted by any other than participant? I for one have never heard of a heterosexual acceptance campaign

No one gives two @!$%#s about the acceptance of bigots like you, bob -- it's all about equal treatment under the law.

PS Required no contemplation or thought; the answer was very easy.

Get over yourself.

mike: I have never walked into anywhere that had a sign no gays. They are banned from what? I guess you admit there isn't nor has there ever been a heterosexual acceptance campaign. I am not surprised that I have not gotten a coherent answer to the query.

P.S. Erin: equal treatment as it pertains to ? sexual activity? lifestyle? label? etc... P.S.S. coherent: having clarity or intelligibility, -- not an insult or vulgar language.

bob-2476682 - Religion bashers, because intellectual position is so weak.

Maybe it's because your bizarre cult is irrelevant to our secular government?

Hey Bob, try the Boy Scouts of America, try the military prior to the awakening, try the priesthood, try most small business employment , try anything in TEXAS (except a Texan in a bathroom stall), etc.

bob-2476682 - I have never walked into anywhere that had a sign no gays.

Sounds like you're very ignorant of our nation's history, even our very recent history. Gays were not only banned from military service from the Reagan era up until DADT, but they were also banned from all government employment which required a security clearance. There are many more similar examples.

Wrong on all accounts there were no signs anywhere saying they could not. The articles and conduct of employees, scouts, military, and clergy is written quite clearly. What you are saying is people refrained from discussing their sexual nature. Stayed in the closet if you will. That is for you history buffs. Gays have been involved in many things productively without having to resort to broadcasting their personal sexual practices. Personal opinions of many people depend on a number of factors besides religious ones. P.S. security risk is evaluated on a case by case bases, sexual discrepancies in character is one. Petraeus ring a bell? P.S. Where is the proof it happened?

bob-2476682 - P.S. Where is the proof it happened?

You could of course read the amicus brief the DoJ filed in the various DOMA cases to argue for heightened scrutiny of sexual orientation. They did a great job outlining the history of anti-gay discrimination at the state and federal level. In other words the federal Department of Justice says that the federal government discriminated against gays in employment for a very long time.

http://metroweekly.com/poliglot/DOJ-OppToBLAGMtD.pdf

But I'm pretty sure you'll choose to remain willfully ignorant, Bob. You're doing an awesome job on that so far.

skrekk: Have you picked up that habit of going to the magazine rack to? The Federal government is not an entity last time I checked. Case by case individuals involved, not inanimate objects or government departments. I believe you could also cite cases in Justice Department also. J. Edgar Hoover is rumored now to have been gay. WOW! Prove a non - entity can and does discriminate. Take it up with individual who did the dastardly deed as they did or did not follow procedures outlined in workplace rules. Show me the paper where there was a policy in place for that purpose. The proof. Smoking gun. The Conspirators. I doubt you or anyone else can furnish that document.

I have the answer you need for proof, but unfortunately it wouldn't be accepted as relevant.

bob-2476682 - J. Edgar Hoover is rumored now to have been gay.

Ummmm........Hoover is one of the folks directly responsible for persecuting gays, along with Roy Cohn and Joe McCarthy. Only Cohn is known for certain to be gay, but like many closeted gay men he was profoundly homophobic and persecuted gays relentlessly.

Seriously Bob, did you skip social studies in high school entirely?

Hoover used it for Blackmail mostly to further his Agenda, sound familiar? Straight A's in Social Studies, not to good in math though.

I have the answer you need for proof, but unfortunately it wouldn't be accepted as relevant.

I find this to be an absolutely hilarious copout.

Retired E-8 USAF right?

Yep.

And I'm glad I retired in 2004.

The military is no longer upholding the values and morals that I was taught for the 25 years I served.

What a shame - and it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about my opinion, they can call me all the names they wish - I'm entitled to it, just like you and everyone else.

So before you jump on the bandwagon, I'm a Bigot, Homophobic, don't support equal rights, etc., etc., and damn proud of it.

Just a damn shame.

I am glad you retired too Kimbo47! Now shut up.

well, kimbo, if you acknowledge that you proudly don't support equal rights, then you aren't much of an american, and i'm glad you aren't in our military.

Already was for 25 years and just to make you feel better - you and all those other taxpayers that hate me because I think homosexuality is wrong and has NO PLACE in the military - guess what! You are paying my 40K+ in retirement and 15K+ in disability every year for the rest of my life.

So I'll laugh my heterosexual butt off all the way to the bank.

No skin off my back.

just for the record, I don't hate you..i think you are a source of free entertainment here. I'm laughing my butt off too....at your posts. :)

Same here!

i'm sure you find people advocating for equal rights funny. how unamerican is that? :)

Thank GOD you are out of th military (If you ever were in it)

Nobody needs a freedom hating bigot supposedly defending freedom when they don't believe in it.

I was born here, not a naturalized immigrant.

Born and bred, just as American as anyone else regardless of how you think and feel, I won't lose any sleep over it.

i'm talking about your attitude towards freedom and equal rights, not your citizenship status.

not believing in equal rights, as you do, is unamerican.

I think the military is far better off without bigoted cowards like Kimbo. Such people can't be counted on in a crisis or when the going gets tough.

Seriously, what kind of coward are you that you're afraid of gays?

When you took your military oath did you think you were defending the rights of just some Americans?

And that is where we part ways.

I don't believe gay marriage is an equal rights issue. So yes I defended the RIGHTS of all Americans, but I don't believe the issue is a rights issue, period. You don't see me posting about burning them all at the stake do you? Get a grip.

I'm not afraid of gays, didn't I saw I have gays in my family? Do you read the ENTIRE post or just the parts you can make a smart ass comment about?

Geez, it's like I'm talking to a 5-year old.

Kimbo47 - I'm not afraid of gays, didn't I saw I have gays in my family?

Weird that you think you deserve special rights and privileges which should be denied to certain members of your family.

That's just cold, dude.

Thanks for the enlightenment, Kimbo. This is news to me that the military's job is to uphold values and morals. I'll have to ask my brother about that, he's in the Navy.

Tell us, Private Kimbo47, how many potatoes could you peel in an hour? Based on your pay grade, you must have been a whiz. Disabled? Did you stick your hand in a salad maker? You are hilarious!

man he doesn't support equal rights for his family? What a real POS...i hope you get cancer

Yeah Kimbo, Vermontguy's thinly veiled insults were amusing for a bit, but by the time I got this far, all I could think was how "unamerican" (to use his idiotic term) he is. I don't believe skill at antagonism should be a source of national pride, but then I'm just a bigot so what do I know.

Real - Well said!

You're an Army wife?

Then YOU are not active duty and have no idea what you are talking about.

What a shame.

17.5 years active duty spouse. 8 duty stations, 2 OCONUS tours and sent my husband to war twice. Now who doesn't know what they are talking about.

25 years active duty, 7 duty stations, 3 OCONUS tours and my husband and I both were in the Gulf War and Iraqi Freedom.

So I do know what I AM TALKING ABOUT.

Thank you.

Obviously you don't know anything about today's spouses clubs if you don't know what they can and should be. We don't just gossip and drink tea.

Kimbo - How sad that someone with your wealth of experience has such a closed mind.

I know more than you think Real Army Wife, just don't choose to spell it out here.

They do a lot for service members and their families - I have nothing against spouse's clubs - I have issue with this policy - two different things.

Why do I have a closed mind because I don't agree with you? Couldn't I say you have a closed one too because you don't see things my way.

See, this is what I served for - YOUR RIGHT to your opinion and the ability to express it freely, without fear of reprisal and also MY RIGHT to do the same.

Yet because I don't agree, people want to take MY RIGHT away to express myself, regardless of whether they agree or not.

You, I and several others don't agree - so what - se la vie.

who wants to take away your right to express yourself? just curious?

obviously that's wrong. we should all have the right to express our opinions.

WOW - something we can agree on, I might like you after all! :)

well, i'm still curious who you think is trying to take away your freedom of speech?

When I get called a bigot, told I'm unAmerican, etc., etc., because I don't agree with the lifestyle, then TO ME, they are essentially saying shut up (and I believe one poster actually said SHUT UP), you can't express your opinion because it's not right, homophobic, etc.

The funny thing is - I'm not homophobic - I don't avoid homosexuals, I don't even really think about it in my day-to-day life. I have a family member who is gay, it's not the topic of conversation when we speak.

It's just not on my radar.

But the way I was raised, in a very religious Catholic home, it's just something I can't support. And based on my age, not something that's going to change.

I've never referred to homosexuals with any names, never avoided anyone I knew was homosexual - I just don't agree with it - don't hate it, don't hate them, just flat don't agree with it.

It's nothing really personal directed at anyone in particular.

Just not in my belief system - and that should be okay without being singled out as a bigot, homophobic, unAmerican, jerk or idiot.

I didn't see anyone telling you to shut up, but of course, I might have missed it. that isn't right of course if it happened.

on the other hand, freedom of speech allows others to call you unamerican..and that is NOT the same as being told not to express your opinion. freedom of speech works both ways..you say what you want, others say what they want. If you don't like it.well..that's "too bad so sad".

Kimbo47 - When I get called a bigot, told I'm unAmerican, etc., etc., because I don't agree with the lifestyle, then TO ME, they are essentially saying shut up (and I believe one poster actually said SHUT UP), you can't express your opinion because it's not right, homophobic, etc.

We're mostly observing that you're a bigot because you think some Americans should be 2nd-class citizens who are denied the rights you enjoy.

I suggest you grow a pair and learn to own it.

But the way I was raised, in a very religious Catholic home, it's just something I can't support.

So you want our secular government to enforce your Catholic sharia laws? Just an FYI, unlike you bigots the other 71% of American Catholics support marriage equality.

And based on my age, not something that's going to change.

That's the heart of it - your age. The bigots do tend to be elderly, and are a rapidly dying demographic.

Speak for yourself Skrekk.

It's a little further up on the page - it says shut up.

No where did I try to say that I wanted to pass my Catholic sharia laws on anyone - you don't see me trying to shove them down anyone's throat do you?

And I expect the same respect.

And sure, my age might have something to do with it, but hey, the youth of today are ruining this country - just take a good look around - do drugs, sleep around, illegitimate children (baby mama's) all over the place and most of them on government aid - yep - you're right, the youth of today are really turning this country around - straight into the damn toilet.

Thank God I'll be dead when you totally flush it down the ceasepool - I just feel sorry for the children you raise that will wreck havoc on it even further.

Kimbo, You may not have even been born when I was in Vietnam. Don't talk to us about being old. While you wasted our tax dollars in the Flying Club, you call the Air Force, many more Soldiers and Marines have put their lives on the line in combat so you can enjoy Tricare and retirement checks.

Being a bigot is part and parcel of living in the 10th century and heeding religious "leaders" who make every chance they can at enslaving everyone they come across.

BTW, Being gay is not a lifestyle or a choice. It is a fact of nature. Also, I'm as straight as possible, but I do feel that we, in America need to treat all citizens with equality.

Kimbo47 - And I expect the same respect.

Sorry, but bigots like you deserve no respect whatsoever. You're no different at all from the racists who opposed integration in the army and who opposed mixed-race marriage.

All I can say is that the military is far better off without you.

Lev_18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination. Lev_20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. THESE ARE NOT MY WORDS OR AM I FORCING THEM ON ANYONE. I CUT AND PASTED THESE FROM THE KING JAMES BIBLE. IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THEM PLEASE DO NOT INSULT ME OR FIGHT WITH ME. YOU NEED TO DISCUSS THIS WITH GOD - THESE ARE HIS WORDS NOT MINE. IF YOU DO NOT BELIEVE IN GOD THAT IS YOUR RIGHT TO DO SO AND I ACCEPT YOUR DECISION. HAVE A GREAT DAY AND GOD BLESS

YOU NEED TO DISCUSS THIS WITH GOD

My spiritual telephone seems to be down. Do you have an email address or link to God's facebook page? I'd love to discuss the stupidity of some of his followers.

What RIGHTS are being denied these "2nd class citizens" as you call them? I'd like to see a list of them.

Janine, are you really that clueless? The biggest right denied to them is the right to marry the consenting adults of their choosing.

Show me under the bill of rights where MARRIAGE is a right?

Kimbo, I found this phrase in your post interesting, "without fear of reprisal". From what I've read of your statements you seem to not support that same goal for a homosexual individual. Which, I believe, is where people go the impression that you are indeed a closed-minded bigot. It doesn't matter whether or not you approve of or agree with a gay lifestyle, no one is asking for you to agree with it and certainly no one needs your approval. But when you want to take your personal views and deny someone, for example, something that every other military spouse can benefit from (entrance to the club) because they are homosexual, then you do, in fact, have a closed-mind and sound like a bigot. I'm not quite sure how exactly you don't understand that.

You could say that I don't agree with a homosexual "lifestyle" simply due to the fact I'm straight, therefore being with another woman doesn't "agree" with me. That has nothing to do with supporting equal rights.

This country is going to hell in a hand basket. Political correctnes bull@!$%#. Only reason they allowed gays in the military in the first place is because enlistment was down and they needed bodies. God does not recognize gays they will find this out on judgement day. Sorry to My Gay cousin who lives in sinful acts.

Show me under the bill of rights where MARRIAGE is a right?

Actually, Janine, it's a constitutional right under the 14th Amendment (we do not usually say that something is a right according to the Bill of Rights, Janine, since that is part of the Constitution) -- and the 14th Amendment is not part of the Bill of Rights, which only apply to the first 10 Amendments.

The Supreme Court ruled that marriage is a "basic civil right" in Loving v. Virginia.

DYFR.

God does not recognize gays they will find this out on judgement day.

Too bad for you christo-bigots that God does not make our laws; we are a secular nation.

God does not recognize gays

What? If you really believed in God you would understand what a ridiculous statement this is. If you believe in God, then you believe that God created people, all people. How could God not recognize something "He" created? Kind of like how hundreds of years ago people born with deformities were "abominations" and not one of "God's creatures"? Do you think God doesn't recognize someone born deformed limbs also? I'm just trying to understand your position. Because I don't think you get to decide what God does and does not recognize. You could say "you don't think" God recognizes "gays", but unless you have a direct line, which I don't believe anyone does, you don't get to tell the rest of us what God does or does not do.

Ya gotta love the liberal bullies here calling ANYONE who disagrees with homosexuals bigots.

I see no difference between the liberal bullies here and the drug lords...

I see no reason to recant nor reject the directives of Christ to preach repentance. Homosexuality is sin, most vile among the pagans... but then pagans and wiccans have have more freedom of expression than Bible believers.

Homosexuality is sin

Actually, it isn't. Context and language, bud, context and language.

Edit: Dangit ErinNJ, you beat me to it! Well I'm letting my post stand as it has the full quotes in there, in case anyone was interested in reading them :P

Janine says:

Show me under the bill of rights where MARRIAGE is a right?

Fourteenth Amendment:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

This was then used in Loving v. Virginia (1967), where it struck down a Virginia law banning interracial marriage. As Chief Justice Earl Warren wrote for the majority:

The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men ...To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications embodied in these statutes, classifications so directly subversive of the principle of equality at the heart of the Fourteenth Amendment, is surely to deprive all the State's citizens of liberty without due process of law.

The Fourteenth Amendment requires that the freedom of choice to marry not be restricted by invidious racial discriminations. Under our Constitution, the freedom to marry, or not marry, a person of another race resides with the individual and cannot be infringed by the State.

Now before you start saying "well it doesn't directly state that marriage is a right", I'll direct you to the Ninth Amendment which states:

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Which is to say, just because a right isn't specifically stated (enumerated) in the Constitution doesn't mean that the right doesn't exist. I'd post even more quotes here showing where the men who wrote the Constitution and Bill of Rights repeatedly said that this was not meant to be a complete list, but a
guild line for future generations, but I feel like I've quoted enough.

ErinNJ

God does not recognize gays they will find this out on judgement day.

Too bad for you christo-bigots that God does not make our laws; we are a secular nation.

Erin, you are spot on the mark! God has a special distaste for "christians" who judge others or misinterpret God's Word to their own liking. Something about "adding to or subtracting from God's Word. I think the rrr (radical religious right) will be very surprised as to who makes it into Heaven and who does not. For their sakes, I pray they will not be the ones "looking in from the outside" on that glorious day! Please know that all Christians are not self-righteous or condescending of other of God's children. Could we but separate the chaff from the wheat, we'd have much better PR, lolol. Peace to you, Friend, and blessings and joy!

Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

Liberal bullies who support the 14th amendment? They're the same as drug lords? SO you don't like being called a closed minded bigot? Well if the shoe fits.....

denying OTHER americans the 14th amendment because of YOUR PERSONAL VIEWS THAT YOU WANT SHOVED DOWN EVERYONES THROAT is as bigotted and unamerican as it gets.

Thank you for your service!

So you broke military law for 30 years and you're proud of that?

Okay...thanks for your service.

Kimbo you have no idea what you are talking about and prove it every time you make the above post. He broke NO LAW. He never broke DADT because HE NEVER TOLD. Get a freaking clue and stop making yourself look so damned silly.

I pity your husband

To have t live with a screeching hate filled crone like you must be wrse than any torture.

You are not an American, you are more like a member of the Taliban.

Now you are aware of the fact that DADT came about during the Clinton era and he was obviously in the military PRIOR to that (30 years per his own post) and they USED TO ASK THE QUESTION - so if he SAID NO, which he would have had to do because he would have never been allowed to join if he had answered yes - then GUESS WHAT - he broke the law!

I DO KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT - YOU APPARENTLY DON'T.

Frankly true -

You are an American? You posted:

"By the way the average gay man has not had anything down his throat that you have not had since you were about 10. And no gay man has any interest in yuor throat now." Are you an American pedophile?

I do not agree with Kimbo's position and I don't feel bad for her since she stepped into this pit of vitriol, but she could teach you a great deal about respectful dailogue, but you probaby couldn't learn.

Way to make Americans proud!

mpa, I agree. Fighting vitriol and hate with vitriol is just as bad as the first. While it is obvious that the bigots and hate-filled people that post their tired old, and incorrect "views" on this issue and many others, it is wiser to counter them with facts and sane arguments. As a heterosexual man, married for 20 years now to my college sweetheart, I stand with the people who are LGBTT because it is the right thing to do in the US. Everyone is entitled to Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness. This nation has never been, and I pray never will be, a "Christian" nation. It was founded on the principle that religion and politics do not mix, and for good reason. If those who hate the fact that people want equality let them justify it with facts, not specious arguments, name calling and hatred. Given that they cannot do this, then take the sage advice and remember it is better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are an idiot rather than open it and confirm you are one. (Thank you Mr Clemens, AKA Mr Twain).

I will say that the level of hatred, lies and other vileness being spewed forth today is extreme, even for the haters. I hope a moderator looks soon at this thread and remind people that their words are both a violation of this site's Code of Honor and the User Agreement they had to agree to in order to post. I am surprised at how many people have forgotten the old adage, if you can't say something nice, say nothing at all. You can object to things on a "moral" grounds, but don't force them on us, and use facts and neutral wording please. That goes for us who support the right decision made by the USMC today too.

Celtic Pagan, thank you x 20! I applaud your facts and know that those who are not anti-Christian will support your stance/comment. We need more Christian/Pagan attitudes like yours!

Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

Celtic -

I only wish NBC would vigorously police these boards for one day for COH violations with penalties running from a month for routine violations - and a permanent ban for the racists and truly foul-mouthed.

I really don't know why it is so hard to have an exchange of ideas and opinions without the hatred - maybe that is just the type drawn here . . .

I am a fiscal conserative, pro-business, mostly a social liberal, and an independant voter. My brother is a college professor and self-proclaimed communist. You can imagine some of the discussions we have! We've never had to sink to the level of insult that is rampant here.

MPA,

You and your brother need to record your debates and put them on YouTube.

I would subscribe in a second. lol

Maybe the videos can teach the U.N. a thing or three. :)

My Father is a "Busher"(that is my pet name for him) Thinks the whole family is the second coming or
something.

The debates we have go for hours sometimes. He raised me with this ideal. "It is not worth having an opinion if you do not have the intelligence to talk about it intelligently and rationally".

A great debate is like an art form. One that is sorely misused.

Kimbo, you're right. It was 1982 when I enlisted, and that question was asked. And I did lie. So did many others. I also know of many others who lied about using marijuana. But focusing on just myself, yes, I lied on that question, but I was 17 and I figured it wouldn't make much of a difference in what my duties would be. And it didn't!

So sad -

So you'te saying your father taught you respect? That is a dying concept.

YouTube? There is some great stuff there - great funny stuff, but I don't know about family debates. Seems that could become really objectionable.

My best to you and your "Busher."

mpa, again I agree with you. I, too, wish Newsvine would have more active moderators, especially when news of this or any other sort that have very deep emotional baggage tied to them. It would be very nice to see people, even if they need to be forced to do so, have civil, intelligent discussions about things. Everyone is entitled to opinions, and to interpolation of facts, but it should be done in a civil manner that respects the other person. However, it is 2013, and for almost 50 years now politics has been on TV with the rancor and vitriol increasing every year until now all you get are attack ads. If this is what people are exposed to, is it any wonder they act like children on a school's playground? civility needs to be shown every day so people can re-learn it, but it is the opposite today. Now i am not saying politics was never dirty before TV, or even radio - it was, all the way back to Athens. What is different is how readily accessible that dirtiness is to everyone every day. It is now the cultural norm to curse someone you disagree with, to call them by unflattering names, to demonize them. In the country that led the Allies to victory over Fascism that shouldn't be the case. Brave men and women died to keep such hate from our shores, but it is here anyway. I truly hope that we can learn to say no to hate speech, no matter which end of the political spectrum it comes from, as it is demeaning to the person it is directed at, the person who says/types it and the people listening to/reading it.

You're not doing us a favor by accepting us. We really don't care what you think.

Heh, heh, heh... thank you, margeimpalla123, for adding levity to this stream. Blessings on ya!

Dakotahgeo, M.Div. Pastor/Chaplain

"pastor" with quotes around it. You know, the fake liberal kind that doesn't believe in anything.

make a citizen's arrest then, if you are so sure they are breaking the law. Go for it! lol.

And you are EXACTLY correct.

Hence the reason that the military does not offer benefits, an ID card, etc. (as mentioned in the article).

So the fact that the Marine Corps is ordering it is a direct violation of federal law (the DOMA), and military branches are at federal, not state level.

odd that they would publically break the law.

or maybe all the homophobic armchair lawyers are wrong and this doesn't violate doma. I'm willing to bet on the latter. :)

Actually you're wrong...go do some research.

It's the reason why ALL military branches do not recognize gay marriage, even if their base is in a gay-marriage friendly state.

If you read this article closely and do some research you'll find that same-sex spouses that were married legally in states that allow it, are NOT being recognized as spouses in ANY military branch at this time as military branches are at Federal level and they are required to recognize the DOMA - which states marriage is between a man and a woman - they are not required and DO NOT recognize state sanctioned same-sex marriages - hence the reason that the homosexual community is trying so desperately to get DOMA to recognize same-sex marriages. That way they would be recognized at the Federal level (for federal benefits such as SS, exemption from inheritance taxes, military benefits, etc.).

It's the reason why the "spouse" in this article does not have an ID card, no military medical benefits, cannot use the PX or commissary without her sponsor present as she does not have an ID card and is not recognized as a spouse in the Army--hence the reason they denied her access to the Spouses Club to begin with.

If you had any military affiliation, past or present, you would understand this.

So bottom line - until, if or when DOMA is revised or repealed, same-sex spouses have NO LEGAL STANDING in ANY military branch at this time.

And THAT IS FACT.

soo kimbo..you understand the law better than the marine corp commander and all his legal advisers? lol. you're funny.

as I posted to mcgusto, it isn't clear if a "wives club" is the same category as health benefits, and hence it isn't clear that doma applies.

but hey, if YOU said it does, you must be right, and the marine corp must be wrong. lol.

DOMA is about states right not to recognize them

So to the non attorneys who know it all, there you go.

And DOMA is dead, the funeral is in March

This non-attorney does know what they are talking about--read the part about NON-RECOGNITION FOR FEDERAL BENEFITS (military included). She IS NOT A SPOUSE under DOMA, therefore the military does not and has chosen not to recognize her. And THAT IS FACT.

The Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) (Pub.L. 104-199, 110 Stat. 2419, enacted September 21, 1996, 1 U.S.C. § 7 and 28 U.S.C. § 1738C) is a United States federal law that defines marriage as the legal union of one man and one woman for federal and inter-state recognition purposes in the United States. The law passed both houses of Congress by large majorities and was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996. Under the law, no U.S. state or political subdivision is required to recognize a same-sex marriage from another state. Section 3 of DOMA codifies the non-recognition of same-sex marriages for all federal purposes, including insurance benefits for government employees, Social Security survivors' benefits, immigration, and the filing of joint tax returns.

is the wive's club a federal benefit? I don't think so. Its a private club.

so again, why does doma apply?

Kimbo47 - This non-attorney does know what they are talking about--read the part about NON-RECOGNITION FOR FEDERAL BENEFITS (military included). She IS NOT A SPOUSE under DOMA, therefore the military does not and has chosen not to recognize her. And THAT IS FACT.

Since this isn't about federal benefits relative to marriage, it looks more like it's about anti-gay discrimination and gender discrimination. That's certainly appropriate for the DoD to prohibit in regards to the use of DoD facilities.

Looks like you bigots just lost another round.

It appears that you can read but I have serious doubts about your comprehension level.

Serious doubts...I didn't make the law, I just served to uphold it.

Don't like it - tough.

No, the Spouses Club (it is not longer called the wives club because there are spouse's that are men these days) is not a federal benefit. But they are allowed to set their own bylaws.

Their bylaws stated that you had to be a military ID card carrying spouse to join.

She is NOT. No military ID card because the Army does not recognize her as a spouse, therefore she was denied entry because she was not a legally recognized spouse by the Army (regardless of her state marriage that was also not recognized by the Army).

THIS is where DOMA applies. She is not a spouse, they don't have to recognize her as a spouse (legally), therefore they "legally" denied her application.

Hence the reason no lawsuit...no legal grounds.

You're right. Not a federal benefit. A "private" club. Which makes it all the more bewildering to me how Marine Corps brass can issue such an "order" based on this logic. Those who believe this is a "civil right" will continue to passionately argue for homosexual equality in every area and segment of society, without equivocation. Those who believe it is essentially a "personal choice" and hold convictions to the contrary (as I do) will be just as passionate about their beliefs. But as a recently retired Army Veteran of 22 years myself, I would never denigrate ANYONE'S service or question their patriotism - regardless of sexual orientation. I just think as long as the aforementioned dissension exists in our country we're gonna remain divided on this issue... regardless of the future of DOMA.

DC-1200793 - You're right. Not a federal benefit. A "private" club. Which makes it all the more bewildering to me how Marine Corps brass can issue such an "order" based on this logic.

It's very simple - if a private club wants access to military facilities they have to comply with DoD non-discrimination policy.

The DoD has no obligation to provide any such access, much less grant it to dumb bigots.

it gives me a fuzzy feeling inside when you correct idiots shrekk...thank you

THIS is where DOMA applies. She is not a spouse, they don't have to recognize her as a spouse (legally), therefore they "legally" denied her application.

DOMA doesn't apply. And, yes, they are free to "legally' deny her application, a right that the Marine Corp acknowledges. But, at the same time, the Marine Corp is free to deny support for an organization that violates its own non-discriminantory policies. The law protects their right to be bigots, but it doesn't guarantee that exercising that right is cost-free.

yeah, equal rights is so wrong on so many different levels. In iran anyway. :)

When you can state to me what section of the bill of rights shows that Marriage (Homosexual or Heterosexual) is a RIGHT, then I might agree with you.

OK, Janine, you have proven that you really ARE that clueless. The Supreme Court ruled that marriage is a "basic civil right" under the 14th Amendment (which is not the Bill of Rights, BTW) in Loving v. Virginia, and have applied that ruling in at least 14 other cases since then.

FYI, your "agreement" is irrelevant and unnecessary; it's the Supreme Court's agreement that matters -- and all of the courts so far, which have found that ruling to be applicable.

Its also interesting to me the number of people that assume you don't believe in God if you are a homosexual. That's not true, obviously. I'm sure you've all read stories about the homosexual ordained ministers. I've read about a history of individuals confused about their sexuality seeking solice in the Church because they didn't know what to do about it as they were taught is was evil and immoral.

Janine-1645002 - When you can state to me what section of the bill of rights shows that Marriage (Homosexual or Heterosexual) is a RIGHT, then I might agree with you.

Let me try to put this in simple words you can understand......if a state grants fishing licenses to right-handed people, can it also deny those licenses to left-handed people?

Why not? Once you can answer that question, you'll have achieved enlightenment.

its obvious why you are unamerican..you want to deny equal rights to others based merely on your biased, bigoted personal opinions.

this country was based on the constitution..but not god. why isn't the bible the head of the country? lol.

You know what's really funny here...you and others have decided you know EXACTLY who I am without knowing me at all or all the facts.

News Flash! I have a gay family member - and I still agree it's wrong.

Actually the foundation of our country was built on God - hence the reason that the Pledge of Allegiance and other documents in our history reference....wait for it....GOD.

Oh, and I PERSONALLY am not denying rights to anyone.

I didn't write or vote for DOMA.

And I don't live in a state where it has even made it ANYWHERE for a vote.

The FEDERAL government has done that - and I support them.

actually, our country was based on DEISM, not christianity, hence we have the constitution, not the bible.

and "god" was added to the plege of allegiance in..wait for it..1954. lol. that's a bit later than our country was founded. :)

and "god" isn't found in the..wait for it..constitution at all. :)

lol, as far as you not "personally" denying rights, you clearly believe in denying gays rights, which is the same thing. either make you a bigot and unamerican. :)

Damn I feel sorry for any Gay person who has this hateful Kimbo in their family.

I love my gay family member(s).

I never said ANYWHERE that I HATED anyone.

Apparently you like putting words in my mouth.

So you are not "frankly true" - are you?

Kimbo47 - I love my gay family member(s).

I never said ANYWHERE that I HATED anyone.

Right.....you "love" your gay relatives, you merely think they don't deserve the same legal rights you enjoy, and think they should be treated as 2nd-class citizens.

As I stated before, I don't agree that it's a "rights issue."

There is nothing in our consitution that gives anyone the "right" to marry - gay or not.

Kimbo47 - There is nothing in our consitution that gives anyone the "right" to marry - gay or not.

Nor is there a right to a driver's license but equal protection requires that if you're going to grant such licenses to straights you have to grant them to gays.

And just an FYI, the supreme court thinks that marriage is a basic civil right.

Kimbo47.............I find it interesting you had so much to say and it was all said well. You do have the right to your opinion. I find the whole article frighting. It sure has the foot print of our Commander and Chief dismantling the morale of the military.

Actually the foundation of our country was built on God - hence the reason that the Pledge of Allegiance and other documents in our history reference....wait for it....GOD.

You act like no one here knows anything.

First off, The Pledge of Allegiance was written in the 1890's and did not contain the word god. That's long after our founding fathers died. Also, in the 1950's, the religious right fear mongered using the cold war as a tool to have the Pledge modified. They also pushed to have the word god put into the Oath Of Enlistment.

In the 1950's, if you were not a Christian, you were a Communist. Guess you didn't want to bring up that kind of hate spewing from the Christian religious leaders, did you?

Mayflower!