You took the words right out of my mouth

Yup..plenty of crazies out there.

All in a football field not good..if another shooter..they are sitting ducks!

I think this calls for more in-fighting and eventually doing nothing.

I think this calls for more effort, Sabot, from people that know the difference between denial and selfishness and reason.

What if he is an illegal who got guns from "fast & furious"? Wouldn't that drive liberals insane?

No it would not. Tragedy tends to supersede party. At least for most normal human beings who aren't so hopped up on hyperbole from entertainers that they can't tell fantasy from reality anymore.

When they catch them, kill them... Zero tolerance!

Sheryl...you are a pro gun person coming out of the woodwork. So what's your point?

We should probably pass some laws preventing people bringing guns to schools. What? They already have those laws? You mean screwed up people will still do this sort of thing regardless of what the law says?

My husband is a teacher. I worry for him all the time now. He has already had a knife pulled on him twice ... by a kid in his third grade class. Third grade! What a world we live in.

Where do these damn nuts keep coming from?

On Sunday, 2 days after the CT shooting, a man went to a restaurant in San Antonio to kill his X-girlfriend. After he shot her, most of the people in the restaurant fled next door to a theater.
The gunman followed them and entered the theater so he could shoot more people. He started shooting and people in the theater started running and screaming. It's like the Aurora, CO theater story plus a restaurant!

Now aren't you wondering why this isn't a lead story in the national media along with the school shooting? There was an off duty county deputy at the theater. SHE pulled out her gun and shot the man 4 times before he had a chance to kill anyone.
So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened. Only the local media covered it. The city is giving her a medal next week. Just thought you'd like to know.

Read the news story:
_news/article/Two-wounded-in-theater-shooting-4122668.php

SABOT: I am niether left nor liberal.

It ceases to be a knee-jerk reaction when it is happening weekly.

I believe enough Americans are on board this time to come up with some meaningful changes to keep our schools safer.

Gun laws only work for law abiding citizens. This is not a matter of LAW it is a matter of the HEART of mankind.

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. -Romans 8:3-4

Glad to see that California, with all there very regulated guns laws, are able to protect people. California and Ill. have some of the harshest gun laws, and the highest murders. Nobody wants to put two and two together.

the thinker-318752 I don't think you want to start talking about the statistics of responisble gun owners actually being able to use their gun properly to protect themselves against harm vs number of homicides by gun. Trust me, they are NOT going to be in your favor. America is obssessed with guns all based on a 200 year old law which was made to protect citizens against tyranny. I will promise you, you have no shot against the US government if using that logic. (no pun intended).

I know gun owners who are responsible. I can't justify taking their guns from them but at the same time, until people realize that guns do far more harm then not we will remain reading these headlines.

Check out the article called "the simple truth about guns" on the New Yorker. It's well written and draws interesting comparisions.

tom, I doubt that the current rate of gun violence is significantly, if any, higher than in the past. the news organizations are sensationalizing these stories, tragic though they are, to get more viewers/readers and make more money from advertisers.

examples: aftermath of hurricanes Katrina and Sandy dominated the news for...well, they are still going at it with Sandy. Now, how much did they cover the damage and aftermath of hurricane Ike (2008) or TS Allison(2001)? Hardly any press, but those were devastating events, with 3 million people without electricity for weeks. Go figure. The press here in this country is neither free nor impartial.

Ten bucks it's a kid that was bullied so relax.

It's not another win for the NRA, it's a win for the bullied kid. ;-)

Heartland,

Did you read the headline then post? One kid was shot as per below...

Capt. Eric Coughran of the Kern County Fire Department told NBC News one victim with minor injuries refused treatment

If he was shot, he would't have walked away. The headline is what they call the "Eye Catcher" and it worked.

Heartland, clearly you, like others, know little about about firearms. The bullets are designed to either wound or kill, not the firearms.

The problem is not with American guns, but with American people. We glorify violence 24/7 even at the highest levels of society, like our politicians and presidents - and that is how it has been for centuries. We now spend more money on 'defense' (it is actually always 'offense') than the rest of the world combined, we start wars half the way across the world and continue to wage them for over a decade, we have the most violent movies and games in the world, and yet we act surprised when apparently SENSELESS violence happens in our own home. We do not even talk about non violent means of dealing with the problems like terrorism - it is always some sort of a force that has to be invoked - the more disproportionate the force, the better we like it as American people. Any nutcase can justify their violence - and we are a nation of nutcases, trying to fix every problem in the world with force, intimidation, aggression, and ultimately flat out violence. It is disgusting.

orbeach -

That is such a dramatic story, it is amazing that it didn't make the news. Oh, wait....

It didn't make the news because once the shooter followed the people into the theatre he didn't get to shoot all of them... they were protected by the off duty officer who had her gun.

Now I get it.

Thank you for the information. Hope you don't mind if I repeat it a few times.

orbeach -

That is such a dramatic story, it is amazing that it didn't make the news. Oh, wait....

It didn't make the news because once the shooter followed the people into the theatre he didn't get to shoot all of them... they were protected by the off duty officer who had her gun.

Now I get it.

Thank you for the information. Hope you don't mind if I repeat it a few times.

JB you really have to ask.....okay I'll bite.......anytime there is a "gun situation" all the anti-gun folks come out blaming the NRA.....blah, blah, blah.................if and I mean IF you knew anything about the NRA you would know they are very safety oriented and THEY DO NOT SELL GUNS!!!!!

so put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Making laws against stealing cars means only the crooks will steal cars. If it does not absolutely stop anyone from ever, ever stealing a car, then I guess that law is just infringing on my rights.

Eric-913730 ....and again...and again...till we do something about it. Who's we? The government is going to ban guns and everyone is going to turn over their guns and become peace loving people right? Drinking and driving is illegal, but how many are murdered every year by drunk drivers? Rape is illegal, but how many rapes occur each year? It's illegal to sell, possess, or use illegal drugs just about everywhere in the US, but does it stop people from selling or using them? We have laws that make it illegal for people to enter our country illegally, but does that stop them? The criminals will not turn over there weapons and suddenly start becoming law abiding citizens. Our forefathers gave us the second Amendment because they were wise and intelligent enough to know government was not to be trusted. If you think our government has our or your best interest in mind when they pass their laws, you have more problems than with people owning guns.

Eric,

Ok, what do you suggest we do about it?

Be specific.

@ tom

the meaningful change though is have a metal detector at the schools entrance with a police officer on station there. i don't see that even being discussed about. when ever it is brought up the extreme liberals holler i don'twant my kids going to a school like that. myself i would feel much better about that change, over any gun bans. we have seen that a criminal will get a hold on what ever they want, even though there is a ban on it.

look at prohibition, look at the war on drugs and current drug bans. a person will get what they want even if it is banned, history has proven that.

Just search "intruder" in the search bar and you will find the GA woman's story on NBCNews.

@ Charlie

Denial is acting as though taking away the tools, destroys the will.

We should probably pass some laws preventing people bringing guns to schools.

No, we already did that and it didn't work. Maybe we should make bringing guns to school a hate crime!

I'll bet that would do it!

I love all the knee-jerk reactions from the RIGHT-WING

Anyone stop to wonder why only 2 were shot? What happened that prevented this from becoming a "mass" shooting? Or why one of the kids shot was able to walk away? Why did the shooter stop? How is the shooter in custody? Were police or guards there to apprehend him/her? Did someone stop him?

Noooooo... of course not. Why wait for facts when you can be a knee-jerk Republican and push an agenda.

BTW... You repubs are correct, criminals do not follow laws. So why do you support drug laws? Criminals do not follow them anyway. Why waste money on them?

My favorite quote so far has been from Ol' Wandering Eye, Mike Huckabee:

"It's not a GUN problem and it's not a MENTAL HEALTH probelm, it's a SIN problem."

When he says, "SIN," his eyes strangely focus on the same point. Weird!

For the record, a lot of inner city schools have had an armed security guard due to school violence for YEARS. No offense but now it's a f*cking problem because it happened again in a white area? I am so sick of this bull crap, yes, I'm sorry kids were murdered, but that is the reason why it's such a national problems. It's been a national problems for decades, but if it happens to minorities or poor whites, it's a problems. How many damn inner city schools have metal detectors? A lot. I think it is a shame that it happened at an elementary school but let's look at the situation closely. I do believe the school had a plan to keep folks out of the school, but the nut shot his way in.

Erica, most inner city schools have metal detectors. In this case of Newtown and most mass shootings the guns are not stolen, they are either owned by the perp or legally owned by the parent. So please stop with the liberal crap. How about it if the mother who wasn't so damn paranoid showing her equally paranoid son how to shoot.

Buford,

You are off by one...I'm a Democrat and I don't want all of the law abiding gun owners punnished. However, I'm sure you are right about the other million or so Democrats...I'm sure ALL of them want the law abiding gun owners punished.

You are such a idiot.

How about this? How about we agree that it is a complex problem requiring a complex solution.

Eric-913730

Yes...and we should arm kids so they can protect themselves too...(sarcasm).

You and others who share your view want to know how to put an end to all gun violence? Simple; everyone repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord. As a obedient followers of Christ we would all love God and love other people as we love ourselves, but that's not going to happen. We live in a sinful world where people don't love God or other people. We have a right given from God to either accept Him or reject Him, believe a lie or the truth, accept His free gift of salvation or reject it. Banning guns will not put a end to the violence any more than making it illegal to drive drunk has stopped drunk people from driving drunk and murdering people. The two groups of people who want the ban on guns are criminals and politicians. Which group are you representing?

Okay folks.

A shotgun was used. A shotgun. Not a handgun, not an "assault rifle."

Comments? Like, how did this student walk into this school with a freaking shotgun without the adults being aware of it in the current climate of firearms awareness?

Is California THAT laid back, or just that dense?

Hey, BigPicture,
Clinton's Justice Department estimated that guns are used in self-defense 1.5 million times a year in this country. If only 4% of those uses prevented a murder, they would have saved more lives than the 30,000 or so that are unlawfully taken annually with guns. Considering that many who are killed now are bad guys - sometimes shot by good guys, more likely shot by other bad guys - even if it's a wash between lives saved and lives taken, more innocent lives will still have been protected.

Where are the metal detectors? Why are children able to get their hands on guns? Charge the parents or who ever the gun belongs to! Give children a physiological evaluation and find out which kids are being bullied and which kids are doing the bullying. Find out which kids are not happy at home and which kids would rather be dead. If you have to send in undercover officers do so. If I was still in school there would be a lot of children that would be on my watch list. If I was a principal or school administrator no child would get into a school or on school grounds without first going through a metal detector. If you had a problem with it you would be finding your self a different school!

Correct on my other one 1.46

For the record, a lot of inner city schools have had an armed security guard due to school violence for YEARS. No offense but now it's a f*cking problem because it happened again in a white area? I am so sick of this bull crap, yes, I'm sorry kids were murdered, but that is the reason why it's such a national problems. It's been a national problems for decades, but if it happens to minorities or poor whites, it's not a problems. How many damn inner city schools have metal detectors? A lot. I think it is a shame that it happened at an elementary school but let's look at the situation closely. I do believe the school had a plan to keep folks out of the school, but the nut shot his way in.

Erica, most inner city schools have metal detectors. In this case of Newtown and most mass shootings the guns are not stolen, they are either owned by the perp or legally owned by the parent. So please stop with the liberal crap. How about it if the mother who wasn't so damn paranoid showing her equally paranoid son how to shoot.

Confused, the metal detectors are in inner city schools.

Ewent, and just WHO Is going to go around into private homes and inspect how much ammunition they have onhand?

You're talking entering private homes of taxpaying US citizens. So unless you have a warrant to go into each individual home and inspect it from cellar to attic checking out ammo that would never work.

Sorry,but it would never fly.

Orbeach, I don't get the point of your story. A trained, off-duty police officer shot a guy who was killing people. Even off-duty they are still law enforcement. She was trained to do this; not some gun club member who thinks he/she is in the Wild West. So if you are trying to say guns stop bad people with guns, yes, if they are in the hands of people trained to respond quickly to such a situation. Otherwise you have just another person with a gun who could end up shooting innocent people because the closest they ever came to such a situation was in a video game. Hell, even trained police (a well regulated militia) often hit by-standers. I know lots of people with guns, and wouldn't trust a single one to not be cool while under fire as they either only shoot at targets or hunt. BIG difference between shooting at something not shooting back and the adrenaline pumping madness that would be a shoot out. Ask any police officer or service person you know, especially if they have been shot at at any time. Average citizens are not trained to react calmly the way police and service members are, and some of them even panic.

So epic fail if you are trying to say people should go around armed. Unless they are trained and that training is ongoing, pulling out a gun while someone else is shooting will most likely end up with more casualties and a dead would-be hero when the police arrive and shoot everyone they see with a gun. Wonderful solution there...

NRA is right we need arm guards at the schools . This kid is not a registered gun owner, this kid is not a NRA member, this kid did not use an assault rifle with a high capacity magazine , this kid is mentally ill Mr. Biden you got it.

Yes, a shotgun was used instead of an assault weapon and no one was killed. They walked away. That's one of the points.

A police officer in every school would cost billions.

If the root cause of the "gun" problem was actually being addressed I would feel a lot more comfortable with all of talk that is going around these days. Banning this gun or that is an incredibly misguided scapegoat. This could very well lead to additional bans in the future on different forms of a gun, when all of sudden it is now used in a tragedy. Can we create more efficient laws regarding back round checks for obtainment of a firearm and stiffer penalties for the use of a firearm in a crime? Sure, I don't think any law-abiding citizen gun owner or non-gun owner would disagree with that. A gun is an inanimate object. Inanimate objects have no thought, they have no feelings. Fix the person using the inanimate object and you are on your way to help fix the "gun" problem.

@Okicize "Where do these damn nuts keep coming from?"

I guess you have never heard of "copy cats" and people repeating what they see. Monkey see, monkey do. We will have a rash of them until another "fad" comes along. Look up the history and story of the "switchblade knife" the assault rilfe of knives for a laugh. Notice the comparisons?

I have not seen any specifics or data on this case so to early to tell if it really was a nut or not.

BTW I love an organization/group that give guns to criminals (Fast and furious), but try to take the SAME guns away from law abiding citizens. Talk about stupid...

How do you prevent a crazy person with a sword, machete, knife, etc. from going into a school and killing cornered unarmed children while they wait 8 minutes or so FOR someone with a gun to show up? Why not have armed guards or hall monitors.

A stupid Texas school (someone is making $ or owns some stock) is spending tons of money on RFID badges and equipment for its school. They are spending enough each year on the equipment to hire two full time teachers, guards, hall monitors, etc. to not even have the students INSIDE the classroom and LEARNING, yet they are getting federal money since the student is "inside the school". They claim it is costing them 1.8 million a year (if memory serves me) or so in lost federal money each year since students are in the halls and not inside the classroom READY to learn. How many teachers, hall monitors, armed guards can that kind of money buy? Like I said someone is making money and the students, the parents, the tax payers, the entire population, etc. are suffering because of it.

I believe most posters missed it, but the article states the shooter was a STUDENT.

Confused - there has been a major drop in funding for mental health in this country for the last decade. Many schools do not have the resources for screening unless they meet criteria for special funding. When a school does have a psychologist on campus, often times that person is swimming in cases. And there are many factors that can cause a person (regardless of age) to cross that line from wanting to be violent to acting upon those urges. You're right, there needs to be better screening for a variety of issues. Until mental health is considered a top priority, we will unfortunately continue to see these kinds of acts.

Seems like we're witnessing the younger generation's newest fad. The word started spreading in the news, and they want to be part of the situation.

And all at the same time the WH is under meetings for firearms legislation. I guess one bad apple spoils the whole bunch and at the end, the fun will be over for many, like it happens with everything else everywhere.

the bigpicture

until people realize that guns do far more harm then not we will remain reading these headlines.

So, when do you propose taking cars away from people. Cars kill WAY more people than guns do. Cars and alcohol kill more people than guns do. So, until people realize that it is not about the guns but about control of the population we will have this constant back and forth bickering.

200 year old laws are just as valid today as they were then. Just the ability to speak out like we are is because of that 200 year old law that people are so anxious to toss in the trash.

GUESS WHAT!

We lose the 2nd and you lose all the rest. PERIOD. That is the goal, that is the plan.

Mike-2283408: Ummmm. Have you ever actually read the Bible yourself? Or have you only listend to what someone else told you about what is in it? I might suggest that you read the Old Testament all by yourself to see just what kind of wonderful beautiful peace loving people that Christians have been, are, and probably always will be. Unless of course you can find a version of the Old Testament where "The Chosen People" came into the Promised Land and kindly asked the people already living there if they would please leave so they could have it.

Confussed-1578043: You have a really great avatar name. Because you seem to be totally confused and befuddled about many things. Do you have any idea how enormously high the percentage would be if you asked the average modern school kid if they are depressed, or ever felt bullied? And I think our High Schools would all be empty if we precluded any teenager from attending if they were not happy at home, lol. Not to mention the absolutley brilliant idea of undercover school children. I'm quite sure that the average 3rd grader wouldn't notice the 35 year old "new student" that shows up in the class.

OK. The difference here may be that, in a state with very tough gun laws like Cali, the shooter was equipped only with a shotgun. Hence, two people wounded as opposed to 20-odd killed. If all of these whackjobs only had the ability to equip themselves with old-style shot, then 99% of the problem goes away. It's the availability of AR15s and the like that cause the problems. Not a weapon that can get off maybe a round or two at a time.

People who oppose stricter gun laws because "criminals will just break the laws" are people who do not believe in laws at all.

Heartland25 says

"Also, if there are survivors, he probably wasn't shooting with an AR-15 etc. as they are mainly designed to kill on the first shot."

What an idiot. Can you please tell me what types of firearms are NOT designed to kill on the first shot?

Why do people say that California has strict gun laws? I don't think it does.

If all the facts are right, single shot gun, no one dead, Oh man, just think what this kids could have done if he'ld only had a military type weapon and a 30 to 100 round clip!

@CF - dude, you have no clue how lethal shotguns can be. I have a Browning 12 gauge auto originally used by my dad for duck hunting - I can fire 7 aimed rounds in less than 20 seconds - if it is loaded with a 00 buckshot that is enough to take down a platoon.

It is always about people and their reasons to cause harm. Not the tools they use to do it.

What a "fine" country we are. Are we? Raising the new generations of nuts and idiots. Oh yes parents, you are doing a hell of a job!!!!! They are all "winners", no losers, everybody gets a trophy. That is what you get from that nonsense.

Gun control isn't about taking guns away from the criminals or the insane. The government doesn't need to control them. If it was we would be talking about real crime statistics It's about taking them away from the law abiding Americans that can fight back.

If you know how to use a shotgun properly it can be deadlier then any so called asault rifle. Besides a automobile kills more anyway lets get the ban started on them.

How about we agree that it is a complex problem requiring a complex solution.

Precisely. But the extremists on both sides of the gun violence issue will not allow that. I one time mentioned to a friend we should get guns off the streets (meaning out of the hands of criminals) and I was immediately jumped on and lectured about the 2nd Amendment! My friend didn't even LISTEN, just heard what he wanted to hear.

Until we stop and LISTEN to each other ... we won't come near to solving the problem. A first step is taking the special interest groups OUT of the discussion and letting the ordinary citizens take it over.

i own lots of guns and have no problem with others owning guns. that does'nt mean i think crazy people should be able to buy guns. i just don't see what is so intrusive about have a real background check and mental check of someone buying a gun

ewent,

You've already proven yourself insane enough to be in an institution. So dont worry, I will keep mean old guns as far away from you as possible dear.

This kid was an idiot. He must not have been able to read the gun free zone sign outside of the school.

California's gun laws are not strict when it comes to a shotgun. Plus the area where this happened is RURAL in a small town called TAFT. The town has less than 10,000 people living in it the area.

So more than likely the kid took the gun from the ranch he lived on and brought it to school. Shotguns are common on Ranches. Folks even in California. Its not all beaches and City life like LA. Glad they have the kid in custody.

Conner. Thank you for your post. It's nice to see someone that is not extremely left or right or an insulting every once in a while. You seem like a reasonable person. Kudos. :)

@CaliforniaFirst.

So why are 75% of all gun homicides commited with handguns if big bad scary "assault rifles" are the buggest issue society faces today? And all that proves is that the kid either only had a couple shells or had no idea how to use the gun. You can do ten times the amount of damage in that situation with a shotgun as opposed to a rifle.

Max, you're missing my point. In the hands of a trained, disciplined and physically fit shooter, a shotgun can, of course, be a very deadly weapon... However, the odds of an untrained, undsciplined kid managing to use a shotgun to kill his intended target are much lower than that of many other guns. Sure, he might accidentally shoot somebody - or probably more than one somebody.. and hopefully dislocate his shoulder in the process.. but that accident would probably be less deadly than the damage he could do with another type of gun. Which is precisely why shotguns aren't generally regulated nearly as much or at all in this state.

I've fired a shotgun only three times in my life. I couldn't hit the broad side of a barn with it.. in fact, if I recollect correctly, I literally missed the broad side of our barn, in one instance. In terms of mass-murderers' weapons of choice, shotguns are fairly low on their list.

Buford T. Baggins

Israel doesn't so that. That is an NRA lie. Do a little research before you make such claims. And then head back to the Shire.

Those darn video games...dadgum movie makers at it again..when will we learn??? probably never

Ewent:

What did you make of this story??

usnews.nbcnews(dot)com/_news/2013/01/10/16449815-911-tape-shoot-em-again-husband-tells-wife-hiding-from-home-intruder?lite&ocid=msnhp&pos=5

replace (dot) with .

Guns DO save, and thank God this mom had more than one bullet, don't you think?

We have kids with all type of mental illnesses together with the rest of the class at schools. Though they're supported by an assistant, they're left to participate in class with the others. Our school system doesn't believe in separating these (some time dangerous kids) from others. Many see themselves as incompetent among the regular kids and in my opinion, the system is a mistake and it should be changed. Not only they create a problem for the rest of the class, but the regular class is creating a problem for them.

But again, in some cases like that of Lanza and many others, the guy wasn't even a part of the school but decided for an elementary to maximize atrocity and number of victims. One of the main problems that needs to be solved is healthcare and screening. Medication is a big part of the problem and I hope the new legislation address these facts.

Its time to do the unthinkable and publicly execute one of these people for the act they commit... put it on national tv as a gesture of we wont tolerate this anymore. none of the cruel and unusual punishment talk crap and no backing out because of mental status... eye for an eye!!!

Ewent,

Same belittling BS stupidity, different day!!!!!!!!

The shooter had as many as 20 shotgun rounds in his pocket, but it's not clear how many rounds were fired, Youngblood said.

That is the contents of one, ONE box of shotgun shells!!!!!! Now someone that shoots sporting clays will shoot a minimum of 100 shells during the event. That is if they go only one round. I would go on explaining but people like you don't care nor want to hear.

I wish I had some guns to turn in - I could use a new toaster.

Guns cause more problems than they solve.

They need a Betty Ford center for those obsessed with Liberals and Conservatives.

The whole point of owing a gun is because people like to blow @!$%# up - some people just like the idea that @!$%# includes other humans. As a voters who is far too liberal to belong to the Democratic party, my fellow liberal hippies and I, we love to blow @!$%# up...out in the woods, where guns and stuff belong.

It looks like drug safety (teaching moderation) isn't the only thing we failed at...so much for thinking your 15 year old won't ever use your gun in an un-safe manner.

the thinker-318752

Hey NBCSnooze - where is your coverage of the Loganville, GA mom who shot an intruder who broke into their home

Your observation will be ignored, as it has been here on PMSNBC, because it doesn’t fit the current narrative propaganda of the Liberal/Progressive cabal. It discredits their adolescent attempts to demonize all gun owners. Once the little Libbies have been given their marching orders and talking points it’s impossible to interrupt their indoctrination unless they miraculously break out of their delusional Liberal mindset on their own.

This story and the San Antonio theater shooting contradict the Liberal/Progressive attempts to further abuse the Constitution. To them the only solution is more and more laws, rules and regulations.

Obviously to the Liberals there should have been another law to make sure the first law that makes it unlawful to bring a firearm into a high school is enforced more.

Their delusion perpetuates itself.

What if he is an illegal who got guns from "fast & furious"? Wouldn't that drive liberals insane?

No it would not. Tragedy tends to supersede party. At least for most normal human beings who aren't so hopped up on hyperbole from entertainers that they can't tell fantasy from reality anymore.

Sadly, tragedy DOESN'T supersede party. Too many are too quickly translating these tragedies into knee jerk "gun bans" without even asking other questions.... Things like what kinds of movies or videogames the shooters may have watched or played, or whether drug or gang activities were involved. How about the breakup of the American family on people?

Many in this country are more concerned about banning guns than in really stopping violence. We've ALWAYS had a lot of guns, but the trend toward incidents like Columbine and Aurora Co is a more recent thing. Why is that? Is it REALLY because of guns or because of something else? The answers are a LOT more complex than simply "banning guns", but alas, too many care primarily about disarming Americans and are merely using th violence as an excuse.

OK - this was a shotgun, not an assault or auto or semi-auto rifle. And no, it probably wasn't stollen or illegally purchased. And no, this probably wasn't an illegal alien who did the shooting.

Taft is a smallish oil town about 40 miles from where I live and I have been there many times. It's pretty much all white so chances are it was a white guy who did the shooting for those of you speculating about race. As a matter of fact, given that this is Taft I imagine the student that used the gun owned the gun or it could have been owned by his father, also probably legally purchased and owned.

This is a town where there is not much to do and has a lot, I mean A LOT of gun owners. Many use guns to shoot varmints in the "oil patch" and many own guns for personal protection since it is kind of a "rough and tumble" town.

Of course I am speculating here (just like everyone else!) but I imagine this shooting will turn out to be due to bullying or a student to student dispute escalated by the use of a gun. I also imagine if the shooter had wanted to shoot a large amount of people he could have. But he didn't. As far as I have heard on the local news the second person shot was a teacher that had a pellet from the shotgun blast hit him/her in the leg and he/she refused treatment. And there is security on campus, however I'm not sure if they are armed or not and I'm not sure if there is an actual police person on campus although there are many police at local and nearby high schools.

The student that was shot is supposedly in serious condition and was transported to a Bakersfield (my town) trauma center. Details are still sketchy even for those of us who live nearby.

@ cali

yes the kid had a shotgun, yes the kid did not use the right load for the shotgun. a shot gun can be much better at killing people in a close environment than an AR-15. a shot gun with the right loads will end up killing on average many more in a close environment than a AR-15. imagine if that kid had of loaded that shotgun up with buckshot instead of birdshot or even slugs. we would have instead be seeing 20-30 people dead.

i get a kick out of people posting that dont know about weapons and what they can do, when used correctly. i know for a close encounter i would prefer a shotgun over an AR-15. i know for 100 yrds or more i would prefer an AR-15 over a shotgun.

Wonder if the liberal media will make a martyr out of this @!$%# too!!!

Okay....Out law cars? Really? You guys can't honestly say that you don't have to register your cars, and have that data base accessed nationally. Find something else to compare guns with if you must....But cars?

I've said this before many times: Machine guns where taken out of the hands of the public without any effect on any ones second amendment rights. We as the public are not allowed to own every weapon available just because of the second amendment.

So you nut jobs that think the government is coming and that somehow your going to defend against a tyrannical government, better go get professional help. No chance of that happening anytime soon, as we are much larger then when the second amendment was written. As well as the fact that we now have a military, which they didn't have back then.

Realistically if you want to go back to the bases of the second amendment your allowed a musket.

Our Constitution is a living document and has been and will be amended many times.

I am a gun owner myself.

Owing a gun is a responsibility. Lock it up. Use a gun safe or a trigger lock. So if someone does break into your house and steals your gun(s) they will have a harder time using them or getting them.

Where do you think these criminals get their weapons? 90% of them are stolen firearms that are then sold on the streets or traded for drugs. So they just don't fall out of the sky.

As far as high capacity magazines...Look if your that bad of a shot you don't need a gun, you need to take up a different sport. These things are of no use.

It is a complex issue yes, but we can start with some common sense things that will work. I have no fear that whatever is done it will in no way have any impact on my second amendment rights.

BTW, I have no use for the NRA.

If your a supporter then look back to see how and why they got started.....They are a far cry from their charter.

bigdogmom; good info on the community. People got shot in my old Everett hood every once in a while - and it/theydidn't even make the local papers...lol.

I recall seeing an officer at schools in the Edmonds (Washington) School District as far back as 20 years ago. (I'm closing in on 40 years since I graduated [OUCH!]).

Every time your city/county has to make cuts - your freedom is eroded....blame the voters who think less is more.

• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  
• How many would he have massacred with a Bushmeister (or whatever the H it's called) and the multi clip???

Dear Lord the media blitz on this is getting old and crusty. Yes, school shootings are bad and something needs to be done about it. I do, however, have to say that the media feeding frenzy has gone stale. Enough already. 33% of the world population is starving to death. 11% of those live in the United States, not some 3rd world country, so about 1/3rd of the world's starving live in an industrialized country. 15 million CHILDREN die from starvation every year. If the same 1/3rd applies roughly to the US, then about 5 million children die in the United States each year from hunger. How much food goes to waste here? It's actually sickening to think of. Both are sad, unfortunate, and should be preventable, but do you think 5 million school children are gunned down every year? How often does the fact that millions of children in our own country don't have enough food to sustain their lives? When do we see that make main stream media news and do something about it?

Who needs gun laws?! I say give everyone a gun. If there hand is strong enough to hold a gun, then let's arm them. We'll all go back to being cowboys. We'll settle our differences with a good ole fashion duel. If somebody wants to open fire on a theater full of people, well they might kill 1 or 2 people until everybody whips out their guns and start blazing the place up. So what if another 10 or so die in the crossfire, we'll at least get that SOB who started the whole thing!

Please stop using the term "Guns don't kill people....People kill people"

no @!$%#? I saw a gun the other day walking down the road.

It makes as much sense as saying "Cigarettes don't kill people.....It's the people that smoke them".

the big picture(#1.26) - I wasn't referring to any statistics unless you want to look at the fact that NBCSnooze NEVER puts an article on their web site that addresses a positive outcome of a gun-related incident. However, they have a DAILY article of a criminal using a weapon with tragic results.

Your comment about citizens being obsessed about a 200 y.o. law implemented to battle tyranny is accurate. But it isn't limited to a single law. You are referring to the whole of the Constitution - it was all written to fight government tyranny. Some are wanting to waive particular portions of that and there is a large contingent of citizens that feel it is worth fighting for. Because the government is unwilling or unable to enforce existing laws their reaction is to remove the rights of all. The only people it impacts are the law abiding citizens. The others are called "criminals" for a reason. They ignore government rules and regulations and revel in the governments' ineffectiveness. They only stand to gain by more government rules and regulations.

move your sorry asses to england where to own a gun is again' the law, then you can bellyache about not being able to protect yourself. Just last week a man shot and killed a home invader, and the man is doing life cause he had a gun. so stop with all the bs crying and move!

eric, again, that's my point. I didn't know that. Very few casual shooters know that. And I doubt that kid and many like him would know that. Anything can be a deadly weapon in the wrong hands. Put a stick in the hands of a t'ai ch'i or karate master and I bet he could massacre a room or a school with it. But the average guy can't. The State CA does not deem shotguns to be as deadly as other guns - and therefore places no regulations on 'em - for exactly this reason. The fact that this kid was unable to really cause any serious damage despite his apparent desire to commit a massacre is proof of this wisdom in our laws.

Just about everybody around my place in the hills owns one (except me.. I have never gotten around to getting any training.. and I plan to at some point in my life, by the way), but very few of 'em know much about how to use 'em.

The point is that semi-automatics, assault weapon, some handguns, high-capacity ammunition clips, etc, are a lot easier for some untrained, insane idiot to use to kill a vast amount of people, whereas a shotgun - or a knife for that matter, requires expertise, knowledge and training to wield quite as effectively.

move to utah, teachers there will protect you chillin' they can carry and conceal. Feel safe yet???????????

@heartland

You are about clueless.

Hmmm.. 2 shot. Perhaps there are limits in California on high capacity magazines and once the shooter only hit 2 out of the 8 rounds he had in the clip he was taken into custody while trying to re-load. Wouldn't that be a poke in the eye to the Lindsey Grahams who say re-loading time does not help. We shall see I suspect. Also, if there are survivors, he probably wasn't shooting with an AR-15 etc. as they are mainly designed to kill on the first shot

The article stated that the shooter used a shotgun. There are few shotguns that use a magazine; they are very uncommon.

"Also, if there are survivors..."? Read the article, no students killed. One is in critical condition and he missed the other student he was aiming for.

AR-15's are designed to kill on the first shot? Virtually no gun is "designed to kill on the first shot". The ability to kill rests mainly on the shooter's accuracy. For your information, a 12 gauge shotgun will do far more tissue damage per hit than an AR-15.

Some here have made comments about the effectiveness of a shotgun compared to an AR15. The AR puts out one .223 bullet per pull of trigger. Count 30 round clip and you have 30 .223 bullets. With a Mossberg 850 with plug removed, you have 7 rounds. Each round holds 12 pellets of 00 buckshot. That is 84 pellets of .34 caliber in only 7 pulls of trigger. A smaller shot in 20 guage like my Charles Daly holds 6 rounds of #4 buckshot. Each load is 20 pellets at .24 cal. With only 6 pulls of trigger, I can deliver 120 of the 24 cal pellets. Recap, without reloading, 30 @ 223 cal, 84 @ 34 cal, 120 @ 24 cal. Also I can pull the trigger 6 or 7 times a lot faster than pulling it 30 times. The shotguns can also shoot slugs. A .223 (55gr or 1/8 oz) FMJ wil make a hole small than a pencil through a body. A 12 ga. (437 gr. or 1 oz.) slug will make an entry hole nearly 3/4" and an exit hole that can be 3" or more depending on the type of slug used. Guess which will be more lethal. For those of you who don't understand this, ask someone to explain it to you. It's not that hard. And while you are at it, LEAVE MY ARs ALONE. Those who try to forcefully take them may have to get through a barrage of 00 buckshot to get to them.

@cowtowntrucker

move your sorry asses to england

move to utah, teachers there will protect you chillin' they can carry and conceal. Feel safe yet???????????

Article reads:

"Student shoots two at California high school, sheriff says"

You're posting in the wrong post. A kid brought a shotgun to school and shot other people. Maybe it is your "sorry ass" that needs to move out of this post.

@StatusReport

11% of the people "starving to death" are in the U.S.? Lie. Virtually nobody starves to death in the U.S. unless they purposely starve themselves or the parents purposely abuse a child by not feeding it. Perhaps you meant to say "malnourished"? That, I could possibly accept.

did anyone on here that is saying only 2 shot because it was only a shotgun accuallyread the artical or here the report from the police?the gunman shot his intended target,and missed or hit but not as bad his other target.he wasnt intending on a mass shooting,he was probably mad with a couple students and wanted revenge,but we'll find out more later i bet.my opinion is this was not a sandy hook,columbine or aoura theatre wanna be this was anger at a couple bullies.

@Ron.. about 20% of Americans are food insecure.. not sure where their next meal is coming from or can't with confidence know that they can afford to pay for enough food. About 11% or so are very food insecure, meaning that they regularly miss meals and can't pay for enough nutrition to ensure health year-round. You are correct to note that neither number equates to starvation. Very few people "starve" outright due to economic reasons, anywhere in the northern hemisphere anymore (except for perhaps in North Korea). That's progress, by the way.

Now.. what on earth does that have to do guns and gun control.. which is the topic at hand?

the thinker-318752, #110- If we're talking about and trying to focus on the spiked Watermelon that's oozing and seeping and overflowing into the Fruit Bowl, then why would we STOP and CHANGE FOCUS to the intact Orange? Or Banana....or Pear.... (except for long enough to say "It's good that you're an Orange...it's good that you're intact....and SORRY that you, also, are feeling like you're being negatively AFFECTED").

Didn't I see something about a "Gun Appreciation Day" coming up? I hope there will be Threads and Posts for that, too.

The attacker in this case used a shotgun, and while one person was critically injured, nobody was killed. The story would have been very different if the shooter had been armed with an assault rifle with 30-round clips.

@CaliforniaFirst

I can find no reason to doubt what you have stated. We could further reduce food insecurity by encouraging people to grow a portion of their diet at home. Our country has moved away from most homes having a garden and possibly chickens or a cow (even in urban areas) to relying on the government to supply a large number of people with the entirety of their diet. Welfare is unsustainable. The government should force the move to self reliance.

Houston!,

The shooter targeted two specific students. He was not on a random killing spree so it would not have mattered if he had an "assault rifle".

@J_P_Patches - I really don't think this shooting would have made the national news (local, yes) except for the recent shooting at Sandy Hook. I still think it was a personal matter between the shooter and one or two students and while I do think he was "drafting off" the recent shootings that are all over the media, I don't think he intended to shoot up the whole school. JMO

Ron B-2757074

The shooter targeted two specific students. He was not on a random killing spree so it would not have mattered if he had an "assault rifle".

And nobody was killed, which almost certainly have been the case with an "assault rifle" as you call it.

And nobody was killed, which almost certainly (would not?) have been the case with an "assault rifle" as you call it

You are so ignorant. A 12 gauge shotgun does far more tissue damage per hit than an "assault rifle". Nobody being killed speaks to the shooter's accuracy and not the weapon used.

Ron B-2757074

You are so ignorant. A 12 gauge shotgun does far more tissue damage per hit than an "assault rifle". Nobody being killed speaks to the shooter's accuracy and not the weapon used.

You are such a moron. You don't need accuracy with a weapon that fires 30 rounds in as many seconds without reloading.

The media gives each and every shooter their 15 minutes of fame, which is probably why it keeps happening.

You are an idiot. Without accuracy, you can shoot as many rounds as you want and not hit your target. In the Army, I've seen people fail to qualify with machine guns that fire 200 rounds a minute. If your aim is sh!t then it doesn't matter how many rounds you fire.

After reading more, I can say that what the teacher did was EXACTLY what every teacher I have talked to say they would do.

When I ask every teacher I know if they want to start bringing guns to school... EVERY SINGLE ONE says "hell no", "I won't do it", "I don't care what anyone says, I am not taking a gun to MY classroom". Are there teachers who want to go 'packing'? Probably... but I have yet to meet one.

That being said, every teacher I know also says that they could never kill a student, no matter what. They all say that they are more likely to try and talk them down, but they could not bring themselves to kill a child. I am sure Republicans will call these teachers names, disrespect them, and insult them... because that is what Republicans do. But I have respect for the courage this teacher had when confronting this student.

3ric ...(#1.58)..."A police officer in every school would cost billions."

Just require them to join and pay dues to The Teachers Union......problem solved...

Oh, and by the way, if it wasn't mentioned yet....THIS SCHOOL HAD AN ARMED SECURITY GUARD....but he called out this morning....something about too much snow to be able to make it to work....Perhaps that's why and when this kid didn't go to his 1st.Period class....he saw the Armed Guard wasn't at work and went and got the shotgun ?!?!?!?....GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONE meant no one else had a gun....

The President signed a bill into law today giving him and Michelle Secret Service Protection FOR LIFE.....not the 10 years it used to be.....

@californiafirst...

The point is that semi-automatics, assault weapon, some handguns, high-capacity ammunition clips, etc, are a lot easier for some untrained, insane idiot to use to kill a vast amount of people, whereas a shotgun - or a knife for that matter, requires expertise, knowledge and training to wield quite as effectively

You're arguing that because the weapon involved was a shotgun and that only 2 people had minor wounds that this proves that gun bans against handguns and rifles work. The weapon used was largely irrelevant in this case, because the shooter was stopped by negotiation with school staff. He was not stopped, as you say, because he was using a shotgun rather than an "assault rifle". Secondly, shotguns actually take less training to use than an "assault" rifle or a handgun. Handguns are one of the more difficult firearms to master, with rifles a little bit easier. With shotguns there is the least amount of skill in aiming and operation involved...even in a school. Especially in a school. If someone takes a direct blast from a shotgun it would likely be more deadly at close range than a single bullet from a handgun, or even a rifle. There is simply more projectile mass involved in the impact. Your argument is invalid.

Mike in Delray

The President signed a bill into law today giving him and Michelle Secret Service Protection FOR LIFE.....not the 10 years it used to be.....

With people like YOU running around, who express such overwhelming hatred towards the man, do you blame him?

Steve, by your reasoning the second amendment only applies to muskets since that's all they had at the time. Does the first amendment then not apply to electronic media? I think we need to go back to feather quills and newspapers with the type set by hand.

I think we have more of a criminal and a mental health problem than a gun problem. We can outlaw all guns and the criminals will find ways to obtain those weapons whether or not they are legal. The problem I am consistently seeing with the arguments that you guys have with the gun control issue is that anyone with the motive to shoot up a school, movie theater or any other public establishment will do so regardless what the law says. Part of the problem is the way the media covers these stories. I know that they are tragic, but they sensationalize it to the point that the person planning these acts of violence knows that they will get their fifteen minutes of fame because they shot up a public establishment full of innocent people. I am all for gun control, but at some point we need to look past the gun and start looking at the person holding the gun instead. Like I said, all it takes is a person with the proper motivation to take out a classroom full of kids or a movie theater regardless of what the law says.

mguy478,

When I ask every teacher I know if they want to start bringing guns to school... EVERY SINGLE ONE says "hell no", "I won't do it", "I don't care what anyone says, I am not taking a gun to MY classroom". Are there teachers who want to go 'packing'? Probably... but I have yet to meet one.

I'm sure the size of your polling was limited to people you normally interact with. Perhaps they are in your circle of friends? That being the case, they are probably of like mind with you on your pacifist anti-gun stance.

mguy-478...(#1.122)..."With people like YOU running around, who express such overwhelming hatred towards the man"

I don't hate him....I disagree completely with his policies and agenda....Unless he tries to rob me at the Quikie-Mart late at night he has nothing to fear from me....He's protected...but doesn't think I should be able to Carry Concealed to protect myself....When he gives me Secret Service protection, I'll leave my gun at home....but until then....I never leave home without it.

I received this link in my e-mail today from a friend. I was unaware of this incident.

http://voxvocispublicus.homestead.com/Battle-of-Athens.html

Here is the wikipedia link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

This is exactly why we have the 2nd Amendment and why it is still valid today. We must have the means at hand to stand up to corruption and abuse in our governments when they appear. Without weapons in the hands of patriotic citizens, the long train of abuses would have continued unopposed in Athens, Tennessee.

Ron

I'm sure the size of your polling was limited to people you normally interact with. Perhaps they are in your circle of friends? That being the case, they are probably of like mind with you on your pacifist anti-gun stance.

Anti-gun stance? When did I say that? Go ahead and quote me.

Actually I like guns, I own them to protect myself from people like YOU. You see, I view extremists like you as the single greatest threat to our freedom. YOU are dangerous, and I will do whatever I need to do in order to protect my family from people like YOU.

But keep telling yourself I am "anti-gun"... you will be in for one hell of a surprise.

mguy478,

I was extrapolating your view from the position your post appeared to imply. Apparently I was incorrect. From your extremely hostile response, however, I wonder if you are stable enough to own guns?

You might want to talk with someone about how you quickly become hostile and threatening.

Mike

He's protected...but doesn't think I should be able to Carry Concealed to protect myself

Oh, he is passing a law to take away concealed carry permits? Funny, I have not seen that legislation. Do you mind linking the bill you are talking about? Or perhaps the executive order that is being signed?

Unless, of course, you are a conspiracy theory nut, making up bull-sh** to validate the delusional fantasy going on in your head. And a quick search proves you DID just make that sh** up.

So, you are now an armed, conspiracy theory nut-case, who hates the President and suffers from delusional fantasies. Again... I don't blame him for extending Secret Service. He needs it to protect himself from people like YOU.

Ron

I am not stable because I view extremists as a threat? Well... let's see. Terrorists are religious extremists dedicated to an ideology at the expense of all others. I consider them dangerous.

On the same token... Gun nuts (not all gun owners, just the nuts) are extremists dedicated to a gun ideology at the expense of all others. We have already heard the gun nuts threaten revolution, similar to 1776, if anyone "tries to take their guns" (despite the fact that no confiscation legislation is even being discussed).

In both cases, the extremists are willing to hurt or kill other people, in the name of their ideology and beliefs... even when those beliefs have no factual support.

So yes, I view extremists as VERY dangerous. If that makes me "unstable", so be it.

did you know he increased his security team...while taking away from border patrol...who protect the common man...his arrogance is only exceeded by his ignorance...

I am an extremist? Why, thanks, I guess. I never would have thought so but hooray for me! Apparently I am an extremist in your eyes because I read the 2nd Amendment the way the founders had intended it to be read? Or do you label me an extremist because I used the Battle of Athens as an example of why our rights to own guns should not be infringed?

New York State governor Andrew Cuomo has recently stated that confiscation of certain weapons is a possibility. Does it make me an extremist because I would violently oppose this Constitutionally illegal step?

mguy-478....Wow....Ron B-2757074 is right, you are quick to anger and have a very short memory.

Think back just 11 months.....Trayvon Martin--George Zimmerman.....The Outcry from the anti-gun nuts was that nobody should be able to carry a gun, that The 2nd. Amendment was only meant for INSIDE your home, Stand Your Ground was a licence to kill minorities....Chicago still believes that...Publishing gun owners names and addresses in the newspapers...Are you comfortable registering all the guns you have ???.....What happens when the next administration comes along....What if it is Michael Bloomberg or Andrew Cuomo .....Cuomo has this week talked about confiscation....His whole State of the State Address was about more Gun Control in New York State...

Make no mistake about it...Whenever a democrat says they support the 2nd. Amendment....it doesn't extend past your front door....You May believe that too, but I don't.

In Fact in Chicago, Even after Heller2 ,your front porch and inside your Attached or Detached Garage or your backyard is NOT considered part of your home and you can only have one operational firearm inside your home....

Have a nice night....I have to run to the Quikie-Mart, now where's that gun of mine ???....Oh, there it is....

Isn't the "more central" questioning somewhere along the line of trying to find out why this KID thought and felt like the only "Conflict Resolution" existed in bringing a Gun into the School and USING it? As opposed to what kind it was, how many were not killed, but just "critically" wounded, instead; and his and the Gun's "literal" aim and the difference in "tissue damage" between shotgun and automatic rifle, notwithstanding the difference in trainings involved for each, etc....etc Just sayin' and askin', I guess.

Good point, Mystery Rhee. Too often, incidents, like bullying and harassment, are ignored in school. Issues need to be addressed before they become explosive.

Before anybody jumps on me for my last post, I am NOT stating that bullying or harassment was a central issue here. The facts are not in.

Ron B-2757074, #1.136- Thank you so much for the reply. It's been a long day and this is a very long subject, so it seems!

As to your follow up post, #1.137, it's very true that all the facts are not in yet. I wonder if he plays video games, and if so, which ones. I saw a GREAT! Documentary on Netflix last week called "happy", with a horizontal, not vertical, smile under it. Not only did it show what, how and how much America has LOST, it also had an eye-opening piece in it with this Guy talking to an assembly at a School and he asks the Kids if they play a certain Video Game and then points out to them that "they run over Homeless People and do this and that" in that game!!! I think it's going to be pretty hard to dispute that there are subliminally "negative" influences (at least in development of an attitude) and "affects" associated with supposed "GAMES", like that.

Thanks, again, for the reply.

@ Ron B

1. I don't lie, at least not purposefully.

2. "When many of us think of the world’s poorest children, the image that comes readily to mind is that of a child going hungry in a remote rural community in sub-Saharan Africa – as so many are today. But as The State of the World’s Children 2012 shows with clarity and urgency, millions of children in cities and towns all over the world are also at risk of being left behind." - Anthony Lake, Executive Director, UNICEF

"Malnutrition means 'badly nourished', but is more than a measure of what we eat or fail to eat. Malnutrition is characterized by inadequate intake of protein, energy and micro nutrients and by frequent infections and diseases. Starved of the right nutrition, people will die from common infections like measles or diarrhea. Malnutrition is measured not by how much food is eaten but by physical measurements of the body - weight or height - and age. - United Nations World Food Programme web site

Mental Health

Much of the anti-gun talk has focused on mental health and identifying those at risk. "Lack of access to a nutritious and adequate food supply has implications not only for the development of physical and mental disease, but also behaviors and social skills.

Food insecurity in adults has a demonstrated relationship with a number of mental health issues and human behavior problems.

• Food insecure adults may experience higher levels of aggression and anxiety.
• Food insecurity has also been correlated with slower developing social skills." - feedingamerica.org

"In 2010, 32.6 million adults in the United States experienced food insecurity. Food insecurity can have wide-ranging detrimental consequences on the physical and mental health of adults, including more vulnerable populations such as pregnant women and seniors."" - feedingamerica.org

3. Where the hungry live:

578 million in Asia and the Pacific
239 million in Sub-Saharan Africa
53 million in Latin America and the Caribbean
37 million in the Near East and North Africa

19 million in developed countries

4. According to the USDA more than 17 million children in the United States are living in food-insecure households.

To the guy complaining about Obama making it so he gets Secret Service protection for life instead of ten years "like it used to be" -- I remember either Clinton or Bush signing legislation changing Secret Service protection for former Presidents from life to ten years, so all he really did was change it back to the way it used to be.

I'm thinking it was Clinton, but he put a clause in it so that HE would still get protection for life. Or it was Bush. It really doesn't matter who did it, one or the other changed the rules and Obama is simply changing them back.

Yes...and we should arm kids so they can protect themselves too...(sarcasm).

Do you realize how much those vests cost? I'm sure every parent has the resources. Or are you willing to buy them for all those parents who can't afford one, let alone 2 or 3.

Very likely to happen? There are probably over 100,000 public schools. There have been 2 shootings this last month, and not sure how many others, but let's just throw out a number and say 10 in the year. Do the math. About .01% chance of a school shooting. Yeah, throwing bullet proof vests on every child in America sounds totally logical.

It's actually highly unlikely to happen. The problem is the few incidences that occur are now shoved in your face by every media outlet in the country, which creates the perception that people are running rampant across the country shooting up everyhting in sight. This simply not true.

Thats the dumbest @!$%# I have heard besides gun control being the issue. You are a fool.

Yes, and we should all wear helmets all day and lightning rods... and gas masks.

Seems like you kids just got trolled by this comment.
Way to be idiots

Well, if they can't afford a vest for all their kids maybe just hold a family lottery to choose who gets to live and who don't.

Do you realize how much those vests cost? I'm sure every parent has the resources. Or are you willing to buy them for all those parents who can't afford one, le alone 2 or 3.

But the children of parents who can't afford them are unworthy of survival anyway because they're members of the lower class. Think of it as evolution in action...

Smeado,

You forgot parachutes.

Agreed. If we need to teach kids how to drive safely and have sex safely, how much more do we need to teach them how to handle guns and shooting situations safely? As for "likely to happen," I think it's a stretch to say school shootings are common.

Edited to add: But yes, bulletproof vests for everyone is a little extreme. Even if the op is a troll, I still say we could benefit a lot from gun safety training in schools. Places that expose kids to guns and gun safety from an early age and have very high gun ownership rates are not inundated with shootings. There is something to that.

It's kind of a boring news story to say, "no shootings today at any of the 100,000 schools across the US. More at 11."

Don't be rediculous Eric... You can't arm kids... but you can rig them to explode on impact.

Students should have to wear dog collars. In an emergency, Shock them all at once until paralyzed and peeing on themselves. Then figure out who has a weapon.....

When you mention gun safety classes some people go nuts. They would rather you give the kids a condom and let them watch a porno flick.

Hey a** Clown a bullet proof vest wouldn't have been very effective in CT.... shooting a high powered rifle at close range

Let's hope that school shootings are not so likely that they are no longer news. A world in which we do not hear about school shootings seems to be what the NRA is striving for.

GreenTimer,

The NRA has come out as an enemy of the first amendment. They're content to blame media and propose limitations on speech. At least that's what I got from their big press conference in December.

Hearing about something and having every gory detail and step by step instructions of how it happened are completely different. For example, people kept bringing up Virgina Tech, so I looked up the full story to educate myself beyond the fact that a lot of people were killed. If someone was planning a similar attack and they read that article they now have a foolproof way to delay police response and prevent victims from escaping. I'm not against reporting tragedy as it is news and unavoidable, but there should be a line somewhere.

Yes, all kids should wear bullet proof vests so that only rich kids have them.........(sarcasm).

In 2010 there was 98,817 public schools, according to the NCES, so yes there probably is over 100,000 public schools right now.

Pragmatic, you make a good point. In fact they also reject half of the 2nd amendment:

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State..."

Nothing about protecting private property and nothing about standing one's ground. "The security of a free State" is required by the 2nd amendment, not personal protection from a free state.

Strict constructionists, unlike Justice Scalia, would recognize the free-wheeling machinations of those who like to bend the words of the Constitution to fit their own agenda.

I reckon the NRA figures that half an amendment a Constitution makes.

Well regulated means you know how to use the weapons you have.

Well regulated means disciplined, A well regulated militia is a military force that acts as a disciplined unit, following the orders of the chain of command - as opposed to every soldier doing whatever strikes his fancy.

Knowing how to use one's weaponry would be classified as skilled.

A well regulated language is a disciplined language in which words have the same meaning to everyone who uses the language - as opposed to every speaker attaching whatever meaning to a given word that strikes their fancy.

It's funny how many people think the second amendment in our bill of rights was intended to give our soldiers in the military the right to keep and bear arms. Really? In the middle of a document ensuring the rights of regular citizens we have a clause to ensure that our soldiers have the right to possess weapons? Alrighty then.

change the headline - when did two pistols become a high powered rifle???

highnoon, there were no peace time soldiers keeping and bearing arms in the good ole' days of the founding fathers unless there was a fightin' war goin' on.

What there were. were civilians who towns, colonies or Congress cajoled into leaving home with their "kept and born" arms to go meet whatever threat required the raising a "well regulated militia" from the civilian citizenry. (Attacking armies moved by sailing ships or marching, so there was lead time to raise an army to meet the threat.)

The second amendment permits "the people", not the soldiers, to keep and bear arms so those citizens would be available for becoming soldiers - as in "a well regulated militia."

We know the founding fathers were speaking of raising a militia from a populace of arm bearing citizens because no standing, peace-time militia existed prior to, during, or for many years after, the writing of the 2nd amendment.

A bullet proof vest won't help you one bit if you get shot in the head.

Kids should be taught about what to do during a shooting, and how to survive, as it is very likley to happen.

Very likely to happen? Sure you want to go with that?

Teach kids how to survive a shooting too? Is that going to be like we were taught in school that hiding under your desk will save you from a nuclear bomb blast?

If you read or listen to the news reports on this story, you will glean much information, not conjecture. The suspect was spotted by other adults as he entered the school grounds carrying a shotgun, the adults immediately called 911 and at least 2 patrol cars arrived at the school within one minute. The suspect entered his science classroom, fired at his primary target and then the suspect called the name of another student. The teacher and the campus supervisor engaged the suspect, distracting him, while the students were able to evacuate the classroom. At one point the suspect put down the shotgun and the local law enforcement officers were able to take the suspect into custody. Taft Union High School has a training program in place for all instructors and personnel on handling these types of incidents and had just had a session at 7:00 a.m. this morning prior to the shooting. The student who was shot, was air-lifted to a medical center 35 miles from Taft. The teacher, received a slight wound to his head, initially refused treatment but later was taken to the hospital. We do not know all the facts, and until we do, then we need to not make harsh accusations and inuendo about the people involved. I do not know what events preceeded this incident. I do know that we have many students and parents experiencing a great deal of pain and confusion and anxiety and can you blame them. Stop making rediculous remarks and start trying to act like caring and concerned humans............

Green Timer - Easy man, I was being sarcastic. Read it again and pretend the writer is not insane. :)

highnoon, alright. Got it this time, yeah. Missed the irony behind the switch from citizens' rights to soldiers' rights. Thanks for going easy on my bone-headedness.

Right ................................................................................Left

Lock and Load! Support Mental Health Treatment

This incidence hardly rises to the level of Sandy Hook or Columbine. This was a personal beef and if you have ever lived in the Central Valley(like i have) everybody has a shotgun because there are lots of hunters there(Dove, Duck, Pheasant, etc.) This type of thing cannot and should not be regulated or postured over. I hope that the kid recovers but who knows what he did to the other kid. My best friend and I had an ongoing situation with a Mexican Gang in Visalia...they tried to get to us on several occasions. We NEVER went anywhere(in a car) without our shotguns.....

Randog, every one of these shooting is different in some way, other than that every shooter is a young male 24 or under. Perhaps it is time to make a mental health evaluation part of each teen male's school physical. And require their mom and dad not own guns that junior can get hold of.

littlec. I see what you are saying but its kind of intrusive(and maybe unrealistic) to have a mental health evaluation in school. Kids go through different stages of maturation and you know that the information will leak out in a small community like Taft. Then you have kids AND their parents ostracized in the community.

Where are all the nuts coming from. Hmm. Maybe a lack of morals and breakdown of the family unit is really the underlying problem? Naaa...

I think the point is to get them out of the building, not what they would do once outside.

Since you're not there, and since you have no idea what the actual situation is, perhaps you should not assume you know anything at all about what is best for the kids at this point?

We need to keep all school evacuation plans secret. If there was another crazy that knew the evacuation route, he could have minded the football feild, or waited in the press box with some guns... or you soak the field in oil or something flamable, light it up, a few hundred flamin kids...

I know what you mean. All these school officials and law enforcement agencies have no knowledge of how to respond to an in-school shooting.

Give all the kids a cell phone and let them call home. Now there's a plan. It sure beats having some semblance of order where they can all be accounted for. I mean you really don't want to know who is still safe, now do you?

Two children (13 and 11 years old) had the smarts to bypass their school's (fake)"gun-free zone" by pulling a fire alarm. When the students evacuated, they were taken under fire by the "children" who were set up in a nearby woodline. Two lessons here - 1) DO NOT evacuate. You may be moving the students into a killing zone and 2) "gun free zones" are so useless that even children can evade their strictures, without actually violating the law, making it apparent that "gun-free zones" are not safe in any effective way. (Which is another way of saying that "gun-free zones" are not actually "gun-free," they are merely occupied by people who do not have the ability to shoot back.)

.....and yet in the UK and Japan this wouldn't happen and they would be evacuated outside to safety.

@DaveGinOly: 1) Are you really recommending that schools do not evacuate if a FIRE ALARM goes off? What if the school is actually on fire?! 2) Are you saying that the 11 & 13 year olds who fired on the students who were being evacuated did not violate the law? Perhaps they didn't violate the school's gun-free policy, but their actions were illegal.

Perhaps you should re-think what point you're trying to make.

@ eric

the difference is that in the UK and Japan, they actually have a police presence at their schools, along with metal detectors. the UK and japan might not have as many gun crimes, but when you add up the violent crimes that are committed their involving death, they have a higher over all crime rate per capita then the US does.

eric1964, if we were playing the card game Bullsh^t, I'd call you out on that one.

I commend the teacher and administrator who literally disarmed this situation.

Pedestrian in SF....my kids have already been on lock down (two different schools) this year. While in lock down, secured in a classroom they have called me and I have stayed on the phone with them until the threat passed. The crisis in both instance was armed bank robbery. The armed thieves decided it would be a good idea to rob banks near public schools toward the end of the school day so that they would have a population to blend into if they were chased by police and the police would be more occupied with securing the school. In the middle school incident they were seen entering the campus grounds but not the school. Still the school was on lock down and students were not released until every where had been checked. In the high school incident the robbers actually entered the school building and exited out a side door.

All schools in our district have an armed police officer, I like this plan unfortunately not all districts can afford an armed police officer. Also there are limits to what one officer can do so I am on the side of arming, responsible, trained, teachers to address a gunman in a school. The problem we face in our society is that so many people think you can stop gun violence by making "Gun Free Zones". This just affords an opportunist a greater window of time in which to kill innocent people.

Eric

and yet in the UK and Japan this wouldn't happen and they would be evacuated outside to safety

so if it wouldn't happen then why would they be evacuated outside for safety? I think you have no information to back that statement up so if you do please post your source. What I think you neglect in your logic is that in the UK (I truly don't know about Japan) someone is much more likely to blow stuff up instead of using firearms. Their prevalence for explosives is why you can't purchase hydrogen peroxide over the counter because evil people will use whatever. means they can to screw with people and create havoc. Please correct me if you know differently but there was not a bomb threat in conjunction with this shooter? The shooter seemed to be confined to one classroom so all other classrooms were contained and safe? Then they let an entire population of kids loose outside the building which was not a containable solution and could have been the shooting gallery if this guy had an accomplice.

I thought....mmmm I' wait to see if Eric can prove his point and then I realized he couldn't so I will prove him wrong. The strict British Gun laws were in part due to a school mass shooting. the gunman entered the gym of a school and opened fire on 5 and six year olds.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/17/world/europe/dunblane-lessons/index.html

The entire article is really interesting but the highlight was this passage.

Despite this, the effectiveness of Britain's gun laws has been repeatedly questioned. The most high-profile mass shooting happened in 2010 when a lone gunman killed 12 people in a four-hour shooting spree in rural Cumbria, northern England. After a huge manhunt, the body of 52-year-old taxi driver Derrick Byrd was found alongside two powerful rifles, one equipped with a telescopic sight

If you don't get the point about Bombs v. guns just google Bomb threats England and there will be more references that I could put here.

Yep, seems its happening more and more.

I know you're being sarcastic, but imagine if students were allowed to carry firearms. In the confusion, kids would start shooting every other kid with a gun, and by the end, no one would even know who the initial shooter was. It would be a blood bath.

Fields,

Interesting worst case twist. How about this one: armed kid shoots killer. Or school guard kills criminal shooter.

Silly I know but no more so than what you said.

What a bunch of sickos in this country. You want a 3 year old to wear a bullet proof vest to pre-school too? Are these pre-school age kids supposed to learn how to shoot a gun?

Do any of you people even have kids? Anyone who has been a parent knows that the smallest child can get into things with their tiny fingers that you with your fat fingers can't. Childproof locks don't stop them. Neither will a teenager who hacks into computers and can bypass passwords on gun cabinets. Face facts...kids today are smarter than their parents and with good reason. Look at the posts on this thread. Most sound like they were written by stale jujubes instead of adults.

Those of us who have spent decades working with children can tell you gun nut loonies that NO child needs to be given a daily diet of violence in any form up to and including how to kill someone or something. Pray tell, exactly how is teaching a 5 year old how to shoot a gun sensible? Have you all lost it or what? You feed these kids at age 5 this kind of morally reprehensible violence and then expect them not to advance it to a more lethal stage?

The problem today are old fart parents of too young children who can't wait till their parenting days are over. Got a BIIIIIIIGGGGG surprise for you. Parenting doesn't EVER end. Only stupids hurrying their pre-school age kids into adult activities that require years of adult experience and mature judgement.

These poor young children are being rushed into adulthood at every turn until now, most all children are no longer allowed to be children, but automaton robots of old gasbag McParents.

NC -

Now consider the most likely situation:

School kid goes crazy on hormones, shoots girl for reject him, other kids pull out guns to stop him, still others who don't know what's going on pull out their guns...

Yeah, I vote bloodbath.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about when it comes to guns. Most, if not all, gun cabinets have good old fashioned combination locks. They do not have electronic passwords that you can just plug something into and hack. And teaching a child how to use a firearm and pumping them full of violence are not even remotely the same. Guns only perpetuate violence when the user turns them on a living thing. I grew up around around guns and I now hunt, but that hardly makes me a gun nut as you like to say. For all your years of wisdom you're pretty bigoted and stereotypical when it comes to labelling and profiling.

R.M. , I see people using that argument quite often and there's no basis to it at all. There's around 80 million gun owners in this country. There has to be 10-20 million who carry guns for self defense. There has been dozens of mass shootings. Can you find even one example where some armed citizens open fire on each other trying to defend themselves and their was a resulting bloodbath? I've never heard of one. Some people even try to twist the events around at the Tucson shooting, saying there were several armed citizens there and it was just damn lucky there wasn't a resulting bloodbath because of it. The truth is, the couple of armed citizens couldn't pick the shooter out of the crowd so they held their fire, just like they are supposed to.

In fact, there has been a few studies showing that armed citizens are even more careful and reluctant to shooting into a crowd and hitting innocent bystanders than the police are.

So go ahead, back up what you say and give me some examples, or at least one, of a bloodbath resulting from armed citizens shooting wildly into a crowd while trying to stop a bad guy.

well ewent i am one of those kids you speak of. i have been shooting since i was around 5, thats also when my firearm education began. i am now almost 40, have never shot anyone or injured anyone with either a gun or my own hands. you state that kids don't need to fed a steady diet of violence and yet you spout off about gun control. why not get the violent video games and movies out of the homes and theaters? take a kid out and show him the outside world. i have nephews who are a little older then those children killed in newtown. they have all shot and been educated that guns are not play toys as so many of you anti gun people state. they do know how to shoot and handle them however. i will take anyone of my nephews out and teach them how to safely shoot and operate a gun. no one in my family keeps a loaded weapon in the home myself included. one of the first things we were taught. all you anti gun people want to do is throw names around and call us gun owners hillbillies and rednecks. well maybe but at least i am not some close minded hypocrite who can't have a conversation without calling a group of law abiding citizens a bunch of names. how is this written for you? please feel free to grade my grammar ma'am.

Ewent for someone who wants to project herself as a person who's level headed and has all the answers you sure don't have a problem calling gun owners loonies. Thats the problem with people that are screaming gun control will solve everything. It's their way or no way. Do you honestly think that these latest shootings dont effect gun owners in the same way that they affect non-gun owners. Owning guns does not make you an uncareing evil person or as you continue to call us in your post (loonies). There are responsible gun owners that own their guns for lifetimes with no problems whatsoever and there are criminals. Why do most people who have no interest in owning a gun lump all gun owners together and call us evil. Untill the people who commit these horrible crimes are punished with a punishment that fits the crime they will continue to happen. I think if people knew that if they pull the trigger and are found guilty were facing the same fate as the person they pulled the trigger on instead of living out their life watching tv in a prison they would think twice about doing so. It's not honest hard working people that obey the laws commiting these crimes. Why should they pay for them

2 people shot, no reports of deaths.

Ask parents of the victims from Columbine and Sandy Hook if this is a victory or not. I'd say it's a point in favor of restrictions.

I would guess the school is a "gun free zone". If in fact it happened in the school or on the grounds the shooter either, 1. didn't read the sign. or 2. didn't follow the rules.

Many times "bad guys and crooks" don't follow the rules and laws.

Most guns used in crimes in California come from neighboring states with lax gun laws. You see...California has great gun control laws. What it does not have is a special shield blocking guns from those pro gun states. No matter how you look at it guns are a huge part of the problem.

@Larolds: But California has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. The same could be said for Chicago. Chicago has EXTREMELY strict gun laws and they have some of the worst gun violence in the country. Knowing that information, what good would it do to make gun laws stricter when we already have strong evidence confirming that it does nothing if not make things worse?

right hetfield, it was probably throwing hammers this time since guns are so hard to find in California

How does one city count as strong evidence? Not to mention the gun violence in Chicago isn't in the form of the mass murder of children in schools with assault rifles. You can't say how much worse Chicago might be if the restrictions weren't there.

Cayers.......... so you mean the criminals will actually do ILLEGAL things and go out of their way to get firearms ILLEGALLY??? Nooooooooooooooo..... couldn't beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! They go thru the legal processes to get guns........ don't they? That way they are prevented from getting them right?

But let's post the names of the legal, law abiding citizens..... and keep the criminals backgrounds secret.....

@Larolds: Evidence is evidence. It's more than just one city though. I only used Chicago as an example. California has strict gun laws and look what happened. And there's nothing saying that gun came from out of state either. It could very well have been obtained legally within California.

Big cities have more gun violence in general. It's such a skewed argument. I always see people comparing Chicago or some other big city with a more rural state or area with more lax gun laws trying to say SEE CHICAGO IS WORSE!!! Lets just forget the fact that these cities have lots more people, more gangs, more drugs, more crime in general. But whatever skewed facts you need to support your argument.

The statistic I want to see is not how many gun murders there are, but how many gun DEATHS. I think that's the important statistic. Sure, maybe some crime does come down with more guns, but more guns means more gun deaths, whether it be accidental shootings, whatever. Everyone wants more guns but wants to avoid any new gun control. All the "pro gun" people read gun control as THEY'RE REPEALING THE 2ND AMENDMENT when in reality it's not even close. Part of gun control means making sure people actually have training and should actually have them. Instead people want it EASIER to get guns? More untrained people with guns. Great solution.

By the way for everyone that says "criminals still get the guns" a far higher percentage of guns used in crimes are gotten from family and friends than are had on the black market which everyone leads you to believe. So clearly there is a fundamental breakdown somewhere since a lot of these weapons being used entered the system legally.

cayeres.......The perps were the problem......our kids attitudes...are the problem......lack of parenting/no time due to taxes is the problem........gun controll lawsw due nothing.........when that last masskilling happened here in the us....did you read about the HUGE killings in china the same day?.......he used a knife..........murder is a PERSONS intent and actions....not an object......OPEN your eyes......i love you....buy a gun!

http://www.turnto23.com/news/local-news/report-at-least-one-person-shot-at-taft-high-school

Reports that is was a shotgun used. We probably ought to ban those too.

CA has strict gun laws for law abiding citizens, but Taft and Bakersfield are slightly over 50% Hispanic and loaded with illegals and gangs. You can take or restirct weapons from law abiding people while the gangs/illegals will continue to have them because they can. Until this country does something about the illegal immigration/border issues and makes gangs internal US terrorist organizations we will continue to see this happening not only in schools but everywhere. CA also have Jerry Brown and his early release prison program that has set so called non-violent criminals back on the street and the rate of incidents in some county as of these same people committing more crimes is higher than he said it would be, like we believe what he claimed.

Cayeres,

Then why do not those states with lax gun laws around California have more school shootings? Did not THINK of that now, did you? Did you think at all?

The more likely story is that liberal nuts with no morals kill a bunch of people. After all, it IS California?

Zorloc,

Gun deaths for 2011 (most current data available) number around 28,000. Roughly 9300 homicides including the 600 shootings ruled justified, 12,000 suicides, and the rest are attributed to accidental shootings. And actually these numbers have been decreasing.

J.Hetfield: But it is only laws that California has. They are not outright restrictions. The majority of California citizens are legally allowed to purchase and own as many legal guns as they want.

Cayers: I'm sorry, but that is way wrong. Most guns used in crimes in California come from California. And also there are in fact multiple laws prohibiting anyone bringing illegal weapons in to California. Convicted felons transporting any firearm into California is illegal. Anyone transporting banned weapons into California is illegal. Anyone transporting banned high capacity ammunition magazines into California is illegal. Etc. etc. etc.

Don't forget convicted felon with a gun period is illegal.

Really already attempting to blame an hispanic !! You dont even know who the shooter is. Taft is a small town mostly ranchers and oil fields. And it is also 50% whtie. I know one thing if the Shotgun is legally owned the parents are in deep trouble.

So blame the Media but not the easy acess to guns and the US gun culture that causes most of these shootings?

Exactly. Then you get idiots on here that read these articles all day and think that this is a highly occurring problem. It's very sad, but we're talking about less than .01% of schools that this has happened. Seems to me like it's just bad luck for whoever it happens to, because with so many schools in the nation there's no possible way to predict or prevent a lunatic from shooting them up in some way.

It's what the NRA did after Sandy Hook. It was the first amendment's fault. Blaming free speech/free press for bullets flying through the air and finding their way into kids takes a special kind of ignorance.

If you comment on the article Thomas are you not feeding the attention need of these people?

Cayeres,

it is not a gun culture, it is a culture of violence. So how do you change the culture of violence? You certainly do not outlaw any physical contact.

We have an African American President. We also have other high profile African American citizens. What have they done to control the violence in Chicago? President Obama lived there. Raised his children there and i assume will move back there after this term as president. Lets talk about that. OutLawing guns is not going to change anything. It is illegal to kill someone or shoot someone with a gun and it is still happening. Making it illegal to purchase it in the first place is not going to change their ability to have one. We need to work on the reasons for the shootings in the first place.

How many of our presidents have been shot at even with armed guards?

For a person in most states to carry a gun outside of his house on his person that person needs a carry permit. This carry permit does include back ground checks and training classes.

Easy access to guns? In California there is extreme gun control laws, this isn't Kentucky or Texas where you can walk in buy a gun and walk away with it right then. Any firearm you have to wait 10 days to get it, And many firearms you cant even have here. And after all the restrictions here obviously that doesnt work. BECAUSE CRIMINALS WILL BREAK THE LAW. end of story. and its been proven time and again in other countries lacking a gun they will find another tool with the capacity to be just as bad.

Cayeres,

What easy access to guns? CA has very tough gun laws.

How about blame the nuts and not having enough security?

I understand, in your opinion, we need to blame the inanimate object

if some 'nut' steels a gun for someone then the owner needs to do the same prison time.

he obviously didn't have his weapon secure, enough.

and that is half the problem!!

the nut and the unsecured weapon. both people should be doing time!

including cops who leave their weapon on the roof of the car as they drive off!!! another brainiac!!! with a weapon!!! and people wonder why these things happen!

I wish some of these people actually would look at the gun laws before posting anything. They also need to study weapon types and ballistics.

I wonder what will get blamed after all the guns are banned.

Who remembers all the shooting that used to happen in the Los Angles schools back in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s? You can't find half of those statistics today. A cousin of a friend of mine was shot and killed along with two others in 1986 in one. No statistic on it today. that's why they started installing metal detectors.

Subnormal;

The past fifty years, I'll use that as a base, we've had two presidents either shot at, or hit. Pres. Ford was a target by one of Charlie Manson's gang; and Pres. Reagan was shot by some nut by the name of John Hinckley who was so in love with an actress (don't remember her name now) that he wanted impress her by shooting the Pres. There have been numerous threats to kill Pres. Obama because either he's not legally Pres. because he wasn't born in US, or because he's African American and the white run KKK can't stand the fact that there is an African American (doubt if they use that term) in the office of Pres.

Well we have a law here in California that if a Minor uses a gun. That is legally registered and not in a safe or secured with a trigger lock. The parents or person who did not secure the firearm is liable as well.

G007 I remember I grew up in Cencal we had drive by's and stabbings at schools all the time. Most of the time a innocent bystander got shot. Because the bangers did not care who they hit. I knew some kids myself that died for nothing. Wrong place wrong time.

well Keel, that's a great solution to a magnanimous national problem! Why haven't the NRA thought of that?! Just ignore it, and it will go away!

Funny how you'll slam Hollywood and the gaming industry for doing the same things the media is doing. Personally, I find it much more offensive and traumatizing to see a reporter interviewing a six year old about all her friends being dead than anything Hollywood has ever thrown my way. And the whole point about the media placing these situations on pedestals is where do you think some of the people that perpetrate these crimes get the idea?

@PRober

well Keel, that's a great solution to a magnanimous national problem!

You might wish to know what a word means before using it in a comment!

PRober,

Not a joke. Copy cats are common.

I see that you are uneducated as well. What do you imagine 'magnanimous' means? You sure do not know.

Magnanimous works in that comment.

So what if the school office couldnt call the parent and say that there kid was getting shot at. The parents have a way to know through the news. Dear God people!

ok so what if the schools office couldnt call the kids parents to tell them there gettin shot at. thats what the news is. for idiot.

They would allow you to go back to school and teach you how to spell BELIEVE that!

There are a lot of these shootings in states with concealed weapons law but none of those brave holders are around when we have these shootings. Well...I need to correct my previous statement. Maybe they are there either as the shooter or cowering under a table until the gunman kills himself.

If only you were in a high school???

@Cayeres: Look at the locations where these mass shootings have occurred. You've got a movie theatre with a no conceal and carry rule and a school full of children. Now what do they have in common? Very little resistance for the shooter. Point being, mass shootings take place in locations where guns are not allowed, that's why you don't see people fighting back. Plain and simple.

cocacola,

The problem with your reasoning is that gun advocates want to paint these perpetrators as unhinged crazy people. Unhinged crazy people don't plan for an assault by seeing if it is a "gun-free zone" first. If they're planning that carefully, it's easy to make a link between the kinds of people who also plan by, let's say stock-piling ammo for the collapse of society, as crazy and unhinged.

@Pragmatic-3918582: James Holmes is insane yet he had the presence of mind to plan ahead and booby trap his house, so who's saying that he couldn't have scouted out his location beforehand as well? Even if they are insane hey still have the ability to plan things. Their brains are still functioning, it's not like they have no brain activity whatsoever.

I'm only talking about perception. Reality, as we all know, can be different from perception.

@Pragmatic-3918582

Unhinged crazy people don't plan for an assault by seeing if it is a "gun-free zone" first

Many mental illnesses don't impair one's ability to plan. Being crazy dosen't mean you're incoherent!

Cayeres,

there was an incident at a parking lot where a person with a carry permit stopped someone from shooting in the air.

Cayeres,

Your statement just proves that we need MORE concealed/carry folks. Thanks.

yeah, we don't need gun control, we just need more guns everywhere.

thank-you wayne, the brain, at the nra!

anyone who believes that is short more than a few!

seems it really is an everyday occurrence now. how nice, huh? gun control, of course that isn't an appropriate issue.

perhaps we all need 2 guns, one on each hip! another one is our boot and another one in a pocket and another one under our hat. and 3 more in the car, just in case!!!

yeah, more guns is the ONLY ANSWER. and the nra is the only voice on this topic. what do the citizens want? who cares!!!! the nra will decide what we want and how we want it!! sheeeech!

Kind of like how all of Washington decides what we want and need based on kick backs and lobbyists? What's your point?

Cayeres, in most states people with concealed carry permits are forbidden from carrying places like school campuses, they are not there to help because people like you got laws passed to keep them away.

Are you saying if it didn't and every teacher and kid had a few guns on them it would be less shooting

If every school in America got 3-4 or more faculty "volunteers" willing to have a CCW and go to the range and keep a weapon in a "locked" safe in the drawer or a weapon concealed on their person...someone would be able to react to these things..... also every mall in America could get three or four stores together to do the same....have a plan, have talk-abouts and cell phones ready to call 911 etc... we don't need LAWS we need volunteers.... you will NEVER hear on the news the recent shooter at the Mall in Portland was stopped when someone pulled a gun on him thus he killed himself....I'm also blown away the President didn't say ONE thing regarding SAFE RESPONSIBLE gun owner ship...i.e. get a SAFE!

so who gets to decide if the "volunteer" is a safe, competent person?

igor,

Yes.

LoriW,

The local police department that handles such things.

Who gets to decide who's competent enough to drive cars, be in the military, or work as a police officer?

I don't get it????? Isn't this a "gun free" zone???????

@ lori

i know many veterans and retired military that would be willing to volunteer.

Death of morality, values, and a total collapse of nuclear families.

There was an economic shift in the 70's. A family couldn't make ends meet with a single income earner. Now both parents must work to make ends meet. That leaves kids to be raised by after-school programs, TV, and the streets.

prag that is the first smart thing said all day..........you forgot...due to taxes.

Prag...That is part of the problem. Additionally, many kids are on prescription drugs, both prescribed and "just for "fun." Absolutely NO discipline by most school systems or the parent. A large number of "wild child" types are from single parent families. As my 94 year old mom says; Thankfully, I don't have to put up with this crazy stuff much longer! (some good responses folks)

Before God got kicked out of public schools by the ACLU, and Mrs. Ohare we didn't have problems like this. Yes, some students even had gun racks in their pickup window and perhaps had a gun in the rack. We also didn't keep those guns loaded ready for action at the drop of a pinhead.

Not enough birth control.

All the wrong people have been producing litters of kids over the past couple of decades in this country.

That about covers it... good job

that is most of what will be said......i agree......but what will you do?

Good point chady; now I'm tired and bored.

That does save time! well said sir, and thank you for understanding.

Sdc; Your one of the few that get it. Laws say do rob a bank, say don't rape, don't kill, and it does not matter with what object, remember idots, it is the person, and none of these people in all of the mass shooting were felons or criminals, none had records, so what does that tell you? That everybody is a dam crimnial, untill they are caught, or do something wrong, your priest or doctors are saviours, until they rape someone, now we want to give them a label, a sex offender or say that they are crazy, well that goes for everyman and woman that walks this planet.

REAL INFORMATION???? From who? the media? that's a laughable thought. nice imagination

meeeoooooooow

tweet

Ribbet!

Faarrrt!

well of course, if only we weren't informed as such... the problem wouldn't exist. Until it happens in our own hometown, that is

In the case of copycats, that is true, PRober.

It's Al Gores fault then. Didn't he say he invented the internet!

I've never heard of a mass shooting being perpetrated by a copycat so if anyone has some sources to back up that theory I'd be interested in reading about it.

Every mass shooting I've read about wasn't caused by a prior shooting as far as I know and each shooter had their own reasons for doing it and it was not because someone else did it.

Indianaa...since Columbine which was the unthinkable schools have implemented plans and drills to afford a better outcome. Columbine seems to have been a tipping point and as we've learned we can either act responsibly or argue from respective corners. The question for all Americans is...how important are our children to us? We all agree innocent people have been and continue to be harmed or killed the majority being children. We already know this tells us we are not doing our job as we should because kids are being harmed increasingly by guns. We do a far greater background check on prospective bank employees than we do on those purchasing guns. Those who handle money are required to under go a background check using prints from all digits. Why we don't exact the same for any gun purchase is a contradiction. I don't only believe in the 2nd Amendment I believe in the entire Constitution. So I am not against gun ownership I am for responsible ownership. We regulate common household cleaning chemicals far more than ammunition. Why? All sales of guns regardless of location should require the same criteria for purchase. A background check of finger prints taken from all ten fingers, a medical evaluation including history along with prescription drug treatment history . A credit check regardless of the choice of payment for a gun purchase. I'd say we've reach a point for serious discussion about raising the age for potential gun purchase/ownership. Those who receive a collection as an inheritance and are too young can have it held in a trust at a financial institution's vault until they become of age if that is an issue. The process should take 45 days before the sale can be completed with the same required repeated every 15 months to keep ownership. Ammunition should be regulated no different than that of narcotics or any controlled substance. Parents, doctors and schools need to be held to a higher standard and culpable should they fail to be responsible in identifying, recording, and reporting any concerns. The process should be handled by the FBI no different than bonding of a potential money handler.

There were armed guards at Columbine and Virginia Tech. Did it help? No.

so just stop the trying..............oh i know let the police help.......HA...oh wait......more laws will help right?

@ Cayeres,

Columbine's officer was off campus during lunch at the time of the shooting and I think you need to read more on the context of Virginia Tech.

My sentiments exactly ,,the news media ,AND politicians have gone so far over board , what crazies would not want headlines ,it will not get better --Ever with More gun laws . The states with the toughest gun laws are the targets ,and more A-holes have access .Get all the details on the nightly news ,,everwhere ,pictures ,sob stories ,,slop on the hype. Sells more advertising eh?

Cayeres,

It appears that there were not enough armed guards at those places.

Its not an incrfease of laws to allow resource officers in the schools. It is a motion set forth by school boards. While I don't agree with a police state, I do agree an officer with access to a firearm should be allowed. The officers don't carry while on campus, the firearm is locked. Cayeres, the world is not perfect and stop thinking it can be. We can only do our best to protect ourselves as there are idiots. I would like to know that if I am threatened, I can respond with an equalivalent response. To think you can run away from every problem is not acceptable or realistic.

School Personal should be allowed to carry guns, Give them trainning. The sad thing about Sandy Lake is you had school personal running into a room unarmed, trying to protect children with only thier bodys, sorry but that doesn't work. The crazy's never go to a police station, or a military compound to shoot people, unless for a specific reason. (then they are not crazy ar they they have a death wish). Maybe one day we will hear of a situation where some one in a school football field pulled out a gun intent on shooting students and suddenly 50 others pull out their guns pointed at that person. I am personally glad I live in a state with conceal carry.

Cayares, Columbine happened during the assault weapons ban. Did that help?

You obviously have no knowledge of California!

They were forbidden from going on school property armed thanks to gun control laws.

It was in a rural area, so I doubt it.

Rural has NOTHING to do with it. I live in a VERY small community and we have gang activity here, not much, but it is here.

gee sounds like you are keeping your fingers crossed it was a nonwhite shooter

Armed guards did a fine job at Columbine and Virginia Tech. No tragedies there.

so what would you do? take guns? leave your rights? bad guys have em......good guys wont after the gov is done......welcome to your dream.......

I never suggested anything of the sort. I was just pointing out that armed guards don't prevent bad things from happening.

Columbine's officer was off campus during lunch at the time of the shooting and read more on the context of Virginia Tech. It wasn't your typical rampaging through a smaller building.

but they do deter.....and can prevent more deaths.......i wish i was there to help.....loss of kids always sucks....

Columbine's officer was off campus during lunch at the time of the shooting and read more on the context of Virginia Tech. It wasn't your typical rampaging through a smaller building.

The point remains valid. An armed guard is an easy solution. It is also an ineffective solution, either by the complexities of the situation presented to the guard, or by basic human biology (side note: what person takes a lunch break at 11 am?). It turns out that this issue is complex. If there are any easy solutions, odds are they've been tried and didn't work.

Pragmatic, no, not ENOUGH armed guards there.

How many is enough? Who pays for them?

I don't necssarily agree with the whole armed guard thing either, but comparing a high school and a college campus is an apples to oranges thing. And if you've ever worked security or law enforcement you find out you get on some weird eaating schedules. Dinner at 3am was a pretty common thing on the weekends.

I earlier spoke about causes of this type of violence being linked to cuts in state mental health budgets and no background checks in some states but looking at this thing from a student's point of view it is blatantly obvious to me now that Zero Tolerance school rules are at the root of high school shootings. It leaves the bullied no choice but to be beat up on a regular basis or else get suspended. Angst is multiplied exponentially when you have no means of fighting back without risking your education. This would not have stopped Sandy Hook or Virginia Tech, Auroura or what happened to Gabbie but ask any high school student and they will pretty much say the same thing.

It is a Federal law that has Background checks in every state upon purchasing of a firearm. We should be blacking out this news so people don't get it into their heads they can remedy their own problems by shooting their offender.

I read an article that said the colleges in Colorado passed a concealed carry law just before the shooting in the theater. The graduate student that did the shooting went instead to a theater that was known to be a "gun free zone". Now if that is the case, I would never go to any area that is a "gun free zone" as it gives a person the idea that they can create carnage without any problems. Black out the news or at least the name of the perpetrator on these stories and you may never see another spree like this again. These people are looking for notoriety. DON'T GIVE IT TO THEM!

This is the simplist way to prevent these shootings.