I also would like to point out that the security officer that normally would have been at that school wasn't due to weather.

earthgirl...

Might want to check out the Dallas gal that blasted a burglar in her apartment last night. We know he was a burglar may have been worse had she been unarmed.

HE DEAD NOW!!!!

interested observer: Yup, worked well in Newtown didn't it? I suppose you think that a bullet to the head of the shooter after the first shot by the shooter wouldn't have been worth it. After all, gotta spin the tail on the kumbaya bandwagon. How is it that so many people don't live in the real world.

Earthgirl...

People with concealed weapons permits are actually held to a higher standard when it comes to using a firearm because they have attended training, must familiarize themselves with the laws, and have demonstrated proficiency at a range with a firearm. Check with your local law enforcement....most all of them support and are happy to have people carry weapons that have been trained on how and when to use them.

Did you know that the average response time to a 911 call is 12 minutes ? a lot of people can be killed in a matter of seconds.

Did you know that the police do not carry a weapon to protect you ? It is to protect themselves...ask them.

What has not been mentioned in all of the coverage of this incident is that there is an elementary school right across the street from this high school. All of those classrooms had to be locked down too. My niece is a teacher there who had to try to protect and keep her students calm during all of this. It's not just the one direct site that is effected.

So, NOW how many people still think veteran teachers' salaries and benefits should be cut, making them quit for higher paying jobs? With their jobs being filled by low-paid newbs who may not have that kind of dedication?

Yeah. Teachers are just in it for the money, remember.

It was not immediately clear how the student gained access to the weapon..

Another shooting that NO law could prevent.....

Those two are sure lucky that the kid wasn't just pissed at the world...

Good job...just really glad al turned out well!

This teacher was looking out for his kids. It comes from the heart. Bet the thought of running for cover to protect himself never entered his mind. It will never be the nature of a dedicated teacher to become a gunslinger.

Today's disrespect and downright contempt for many teachers is outrageous and disgusting. I am not a teacher. There are no teachers presently in my life. I am a former student that gratefully acknowledges two teachers in particular, that made me who I am today. There are millions of us, thanks to dedicated teachers like this man.

I really think it's time to give serious thought about arming teachers.

Sounds crazy i know. i'm not fond of it either but i truly believe it could save lives.

earthgirl

WE should also repeal any of the concealed carry laws in all states, and the idiotic "Stand Your Ground" laws. Too many scrawny, weak, nerd bullies who want to be bada$$ on the street with their "my gun does my talking, so make my day" out there.

Instead of making blanket and prejudiced statements, either about gun owners or people you consider "nerds", maybe you should know that Vermont, which is one of the States where the gun laws are the least severe, where everyone over 21 can carry a gun (no permit required), has one of the lowest crime rates (#48 on the list in 2010). On the other hand, Washington DC has the highest crime rate, while their gun laws are pretty severe, and residents are not allowed to carry concealed weapons.

While looking at crime rates, you also have to look beyond the numbers, you have to take a closer look at the population and history of the City, State, or country. For example in Mexico, while their crime rate is much higher then ours, the drug cartels are probably responsible for a high percentage of these crimes. Similarly in some cities they have gangs who make their crime rate skyrocket. It is not the law abiding gun owner you should fear (which are the ones you wish to disarm, as criminals couldn't care less about laws), it is the criminal with a gun (or any, or no, weapon).

And the Stand your Ground law is far from idiotic, you would realise that if you ever had to defend yourself and unfortunately killed or wounded your assailant.

Personally I like the law in my State the way it is, keep your agenda for your State. You want to be defenseless it is your right, I don't, and so far, thank God and the Constitution, it is still my right as well.

Creature girl -

Let's be honest with the statistics shall we? The "rampant proliferation" of weapons is a bit of a stretch. You realize they used to be much easier to obtain (no background checks, no age restrictions, available via the Sears catalog, etc) and what has happened with crime over the last 10-15 years as more guns are available? Crime has gone down - that's a fact regardless of whether you attribute it to the number of weapons sold.

And those same nations with comparable economic standings are missing what? Oh yeah, 1.4 Million gang members that we have that commit those murders. Let's be real - if you aren't involved in criminal activity, the chances that you will be a victim of gun violence are astronomically low. Here in Chicago, with 500+ murders last year you would think it would be quite dangerous. Only in the gang infested areas of the South and West side and oh yeah, as a law abiding citizen - I had to leave my guns in Florida because they are essentially banned here. So only the criminals have them.

And please don't be fooled that this is a purely partisan issue - it isn't. There are many of us on the left that fully support having a 2nd amendment and choose to protect ourselves and our families with firearms. The vast majority of our military troops (active and retired) are also firm believers and they aren't all republicans. I may be a liberal, but I've seen enough to know that talking nice to someone breaking in to do me harm isn't going to cut it.

Every single member of the NRA would be all for your suggestion of getting the guns out of the hands of would-be killers and absolutely believe that criminals have no business with guns. That's the point and the argument going on now. Instead of focusing on the criminals, it sure feels like the laws are being crafted to make it much harder for honest law abiding folks to protect themselves from the criminals who we all know won't signup for a registry, turn theirs in, buy insurance, secure their weapons, etc.

Sum Succubus

It's time not only to ban the sale of guns and ammunition to civilians, it is also time to CONFISCATE whatever guns are out there. When is this madness going to end?

Yes let's confiscate all the guns, make sure all law abiding citizens are defenseless. You do realise criminals will still own guns don't you? They must love statements like yours.

A tidbit of gun history:

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953 20 million people were exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians were exterminated.

In 1938, German established gun control. From 1939 to1945 13 million people were exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952 20 million people were exterminated and still are being exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981 100,000 Mayan Indians were exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians were exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to 1977, 1 million educated people were exterminated.

Not to mention the gun used in this incident isn't even considered on the "new" gun control issues..but when it is..refer to the above.

I see we've made yet another story about our views, left or right. Typical.

You are right Derek, this man is a hero and deserving of our respect (if not at least a Silver Star for Valor). Doesn't seem like his pay or his union had anything to do with protecting the lives of his other students. So why were they brought up?

Confiscate guns in America, hmmm. Sum, in case you missed it, the United States has been a gun laden country since before it's conception. We are a nation that was built on the wisdom of farmers. People who had to defend themselves from the wild animals of the time. Now, it has become a case where we have to still defend ourselves from the wild animals of the streets. If you confiscate the guns, you will only get the ones that are registered. Leaving the ones that are in the hands of thugs, robbers, rapists, muggers, and psychos. Does that sound like the type of people you want to have guns? If so, might I suggest you join Pierce Morgan on that boat back to the motherland.

If that does not really register with some of those that read this and are of mutual mind, let me try this another way. If you take the time to open a book on the Founding Fathers (George Washington, Ben Franklin, Alexander Hamilton, John Hancock, ect.), you might find their views on why the second amendment was really written. These people grew up living under the reign of a tyrannical government. These people knew what it was like to be slaves to a King who had absolute control. These men knew full well what could and would happen if our government was to become too powerful and absolute. And it has been happening for 60+ years. Creating vagrants with programs that promote laziness. Removing the will of the people from the halls of Government. Removing our heritage and learning what it truly means to be a citizen of the United States. Dividing us more and more every day in the name of "Diversity". Making it so we forget that we are The United States of America, and changing us into a more individual society. Why? Because a government can conquer an individual. A government cannot conquer a united nation.

Now more then ever has it been more important to me to look at my rights as a citizen and realize that I have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. It is my responsibility to protect my life and the lives of those I love (wife and children) from thugs, robbers, rapists, muggers, murderers, and psychos. It is my responsibility to question my government and make sure that my liberty still is freeing me from bondage to said government. It is my responsibility to make my happiness how I choose. Be it riding my motorcycle with my wife, working at a job I enjoy, hunting, fishing, playing baseball, playing golf, or just enjoying some time at the park with my children.

I cannot stress this enough, It is only the responsibility of said government to provide me a place to do these things. It is not their responsibility to provide them for me, nor to tell me how to find these things!! When you put your life in the hands of the government, realize that you are putting your life in the hands of people who cannot keep their business in the black, do not care about an individual and only about the masses, and have sold you products and services that have been defective since 1935.

When you do nothing about the problems but throw programs and money at them, you only create more problems. So there again, taking away all the guns will only create more problems. Do your history and you will see that I am right. And remember, people who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it. Check out some books on what America was like before it became The United States of America. You may find that it may actually be about time for another Boston Tea Party (not the moronic group, the real thing). No, our government does not seem tyrannical...but looks may be deceiving. Besides, it's all happening while America is sleeping anyway.

Over 20,000 gun laws on the books. California with the strictist laws in the country. How many laws did this kid break committing this crime? Dozens. Criminals could care less for laws. I'm glad it worked out for the teacher. The kid evidently still had some reason left in him or the teacher would have been another victim. Teachers should be given training and be armed. Let them decide if the first round should be a rubber bullet or not.

problem: school shootings. if you read about the differences in these there is either an adult (rare, and usually a former) or a student involved, and its what, 9 out of 10 a kid that was bullied if not mistaken, or some other type of volatile engagement prior to the event.

whats the solution? you can scream gun ban, till your lungs bleed, but that still doesnt stop anyone from abtaining a gun IF they really want one does it? maybe in some fantasy world perhaps, but if enforcement goes door to door taking everyone they find, it will not rid of them, because people are smart, criminals are even smarter. they will hide them and retrieve them when they feel it is safe to do so. you also have people smart enough to make their own. thus the millions and millions of honest people who have them and respect them suffer because of a few bad pennies. yes a few bad pennies when you compaire it to the number of people in the US these boil down to less than 1% of the population.

so perhaps rather beating a dead horse, maybe looking for other solutions? we have armed patrols, and so on in, and outside of schools, metal detectors, and so on... helps, but still problems remain. perhaps its in part to parental upbringing, on both the victim who is being bullied, and the one being the bully? teaching respect of others, their feelings and right to exsist might make a huge difference, and being a responsible parent and seeing the problem(s) from both sides and dealing with it. too many parents shrug things off as "its just kids being kids" yet we read about child victims being shot at parks parties and other after 10pm, and into the wee hrs of the morning as well, when these kids should be home in bed, sleeping.

we lead by exsample.

not gun control, or law enforcement, or school lockdowns and searches.... but by exsample. until some people realise that, and chance, or act to improve it in their own lives, these problems will not remain, but as we see, continue to grow worse. if you want the government to do everything for you.. then lock yourself up in an institution, or ask for your own little lay of no gun land to start your life fresh without crime and you can by all means move to it. sacrifice your own personal freedom, but let the rest of the people who enjoy theirs, keep it.

JD:

That was a very well thought out and written comment. It is nice to see that there are others who see the truth, and can speak it eloquently.

in relation to my above post....

maybe the government can start with one of its huge bases already closed and start their own little habitat for people as a trial state... can call it Dream for exsample. these posts already have gates at the entrances, and law of that state can be no weapons that can cause death. Ft. McClellan would be an ideal place for this for exsample. plenty of useable land, ready to make the government tons of cash starting with housing. so it starts out with its own base infastructure for an excellent economy builder. has housing already available, and so on. no gun laws can be enforced for everyone before entry, and so on.

al you need for entrance into this wonderful new state supplied by the government is a spotless record, and a desire to work, and this would include to get past the front gate as well. no outside contracting, or other. this is very possible to make happen, and as the economy grows, the state of Dream can buy ajacent land to grow larger.

you have every right in the consitution but the right to bear arms. any breaking of laws result in banishment from this state. that is of course AFTER to you serve your time for punishment, as well the government gains control of any properties you own outside of clothes on your back.

then the lot of you, can put forth a trial of your "free in harmony" demands, and watch as you evolve, and revolve around the rest of the world. however do take in mind... this is not much different than a regular military base when it was active, just its packed with civilians. if i remember correctly when this actual base was active, as like any other, the same problems still exsisted. people were robbed, shot, stabbed beaten, and so on there were still drug, and alcohol issues, drunk drivings, and the list goes on and on. but hey! if you think you can do it any better... you go and give it your best shot.

Sum Succubus

It's time not only to ban the sale of guns and ammunition to civilians, it is also time to CONFISCATE whatever guns are out there. When is this madness going to end?

the madness will end when people can learn respect for other people, and no sooner. people rob to obtain what they do not have, yet somoeone else worked for. people hurt and kill, because the other persons life means nothing to them. people say things to hurt someone else because they can not respect what that person has done to want something to better themselves, or even just be left alone. some want privacy, some want more, some want looks, and those that dont dont care, yet are looked down upon by some. when people can relise we are all in this together and need eachothers help to get thru the day sometimes, it will change.

take away all the guns you want, it will change nothing how we as a society functions, just how we can be be disfunctional. you can live in a world of delusion by thinking destroying all guns will change everyones life... but it will not change the person we are inside, who we are, and what we become in the end game.

this kid went after another kid because of a dispute. if no gun, he could have brought a knife, a bat, poison, and a limitless number of other things to do harm. acid in the face, pencil in the eye, anything. the other guy who shot all those kids... he was derranged, and his mother coddled/trusted him. she tried to do it all herself, and failed miserably. people have NO accountability or feeling of wrong doing, and untill that changes, (yourself just as guilty) we will continue to have these problems.

The banning of military type rifles is bs because if we are left with anything less than what our military uses (if our govt. turns on it's people) we are hamburger helper.

Runblenut: Under your logic citizens must have the right to have tanks, machine guns, jet fighters etc.? Just for your information the military are the people. Unlike Syria which has religious factions we are a melting pot. Does anyone really believe our military would support a dictator? Limiting guns that are made strictly for war or limiting the size of magazines to limit potential victims when a lunatic goes postal doesn't violate the second amendment.

The banning of military type rifles is bs because if we are left with anything less than what our military uses (if our govt. turns on it's people) we are hamburger helper.

Runblenut: Under your logic citizens must have the right to have tanks, machine guns, jet fighters etc.?

Nicely put, Larry. I would add the observance that, somehow, nations such as Great Britain, France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, and Denmark, to name but a few, have maintained democratic governments without the heavily armed citizenry Rumblenut sees as so important.

It is also worth noting that in the 1970s, both Spain and Portugal transitioned from autocratic, fascist governments to democracies without widespread fighting and without aid from an armed citizenry.

I keep asking the question: Exactly how is the U.S. different?

I never get a sensible answer.

One further note. Although all stories regarding gun violence inevitably spark discussions about gun control, pro and con, this story has very little relevance to this eternal debate. The shooter used a shotgun, which even in Great Britain is legal to possess in the home and for hunting. I doubt seriously we will ever live in a society where shot guns are banned.

We should all just applaud the actions of the two school staff members, who successfully confronted the youth and talked him into laying down his gun. Many other adults, I'm sure, would have been part of a stampede for the exits.

People with concealed weapons permits are actually held to a higher standard when it comes to using a firearm because they have attended training, must familiarize themselves with the laws, and have demonstrated proficiency at a range with a firearm.

Yup. That's how a woman at the University of Colorado managed to accidentally shoot one of her coworkers last month. This obviously well-trained CCW permit holder was carrying a loaded handgun in her purse with a round chambered and the safety off. Fortunately the victim wasn't seriously injured, but it could have been much worse.

Anna, it might disturb you to know that Vermont, with pretty much no gun laws at all, is also considered a totally "socialist" state by people who tend to think in those terms.

"JeanValjean"

Sum Succubus:

I fully agree with you. Guns serve no needed or genuine purpose in a civilized society. The NRA and gun manufacturers have been very successful in brainwashing some cowards in this country just so they can laugh all the way to the bank. They forsake to safety and welfare of our children and our nation out of financial GREED. The 2nd Amendment is an inapplicable worthless piece of writing that has no place in today's society. The so-called founding fathers had no clue what lethal power guns heap on innocent people today, and if they did, such provision would certainly not have been place in that document. Guns are the real and true problem. We must rid civilized society of them.

Okay, when law enforcement turns in their guns for destruction, so will I. If civilians don't have them, they don't need them either, right?

Severed Head in a Jar

Yup. That's how a woman at the University of Colorado managed to accidentally shoot one of her coworkers last month. This obviously well-trained CCW permit holder was carrying a loaded handgun in her purse with a round chambered and the safety off. Fortunately the victim wasn't seriously injured, but it could have been much worse.

Okay great, you named one incident. But over a million people carry concealed every day. The way you talk, you'd think that there should be tens of thousands people shot every day. Accidents happen even to the most careful people.

I named one as an example because I live in Denver. Try Google; you'll find a few more.

For starters, try "road rage."

what ever happened to a old fashion fist -fight in the school yard when two guys have a argument; today ,one grabs a gun and goes after the other; it would be interesting to know the racial profile of the two.

@RumbleNut

And the thought that our government is going to use the military against us in a Hitler-like manner doesn't lead people to arm themselves to the teeth in fear? lol. The people trying to get people to think that the 2nd amendment is being repealed doesn't instil fear into people to run out and buy all the guns and ammo they can before "their rights are taken away?" The whole "fear" thing is in place on both sides of the argument.

That being said, good job by the 2 staffers in this incident. Short of no one getting shot at all, probably the best outcome that could have happened. Have to imagine there was a different dynamic/motive involved with this shooter than some of the other ones who just walk in listen to no one and start blasting away at everything in sight. This guy was obviously able to be reasoned with. Doesn't sound like the typical premeditated for months mass shooting where the shooter is going into it expecting to die either via law enforcement or by his own weapon.

Sum Succubus, perhaps all the demonic BJ's you've given have eroded what's left of your brain. Time to find another career there Elvira.

-----------------
US Protects Guns - 466 violent crimes per 100,000 people
-----------------

"...If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun..."
- The Dalai Lama, 2001

315 million People - #1 with 88 firearms per 100 people
8,583 homicides caused by firearms - #28
400 justifiable by law enforcement
260 justifiable by private citizens

--------------
UK Banned Guns - 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people
--------------

"...Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest..."
- Mohandas Gandhi, 1927

62.6 million people - #88 with 6.7 firearms per 100 people
59 homicides caused by firearms
UK has 2nd highest crime rate in Europe
UK has 5th highest robbery rate
UK has 4th highest burglary rate
Britain is the most violent country in Europe

sources:
FBI Crime States
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats

World Gun Ownership rates
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Interesting this story gets reported right away. There have been 1/2 dozen situations in the last month where a Good guy with a gun stopped a bad guy with a gun and yet from MSNBC anyway nothing but silence........ Yet a story that fits their bias against guns is reported right away..... Very interesting indeed.....

Here we have a kid more pissed off then crazy who wanted a couple jerks dead but, was not out for a mass shooting and since the teacher talked him down rather then having to put him down we all hear about it.... Very interesting, I am not thinking this would have made it onto MessNBC had the teacher had to shoot him...

The Teacher is a hero but this Kid was also not a crazed killer. This is a good story in so far as it shows that a non whack job can be talked down however it has little to do with the problem we have with crazed nut jobs getting a hold of a gun to 'go out in a blaze of glory'.

I would be interested to get some actual facts of the scene. Was this some bullied kid who wanted to 'end his torment'? I am thinking we have a crisscross of situations but, as it fits MSNBC's mantra of 'guns are bad' they will hype it.

Look for all the mainstream media outlets to have this teacher on to discuss it, they will ask him if he thinks he should be allowed to carry a gun in school to protect the students and then point to this situation to show it is, in their opinion, 'not needed'. Of course they will likely get this teachers opinion first and if he would rather he be allowed to carry he will simply disappear as a story.

This could have been so much worse. True heroes. They have made a difference and deserve to be recognized.

Happy42 - I don't do it for the money. I do it for all the respect I get from people like you.

On a serious note: Commonsense, thank you for your kind words. I wish your sentiment were shared by even a large minority. Like every other profession, ours has its degenerates, but 90% of the people I've worked with love what they do and do it well despite the obstacles. I don't know if I would have become a teacher without having great ones in my own life (including my mom!)

interested observer

Just think - if the NRA and their lunatic supporters get their way - we could have had a shootout at this school. I wonder how many victims whould have been shot as the teacher and the nutjob shot away at each other.

This story is a good example of why we should use our brains instead of guns to solve problems.

I suppose you mean like they do at Sidwell Friends School?

The school that Barrack Husseins daughters go to? You know the one that costs over $32,000 a year? You mean the one that has 11 armed guards patrolling the school 24/7?

How far do you think this poor little 16 year old would have gotten had he decided to try to get into Sidwell?

Dialog. That works great sometimes. But it doesnt hurt to have a back up. Mine's a .45.

Happy - My wife is a teacher. Trust me when I say that the money is not nearly good enough to warrant her keeping that job. She does it because she loves teaching kids. She has wanted to be a teacher since she was 8, which is long before she cared about money.

Beyond that, only an idiot would get into teaching for the money. It's quite simple to find a higher-paying career choice with less stress.

I'm glad they were able to stop this kid from shooting anyone else. It sounds like he had a target and, in the end, decided he didn't need to hurt other classmates.

Here we go with another gun debate. I'm glad my state isn't run by knee-jerk fools.

either the Policeman assigned to the school needs to be fired or the Police Shift Commander who did not send a replacement. Some one screwed up the "assignment". The teacher deserves HERO status for his actions. One person with a handgun, shotgun or even a rifle may not ever be able to be stopped, but the casualty count will seldom run over the handful that can be killed with a single weapon. Thankfully it was not an assault weapon or high capacity magazine armament.

It sounds like magazine capacity - at least in this case - didn't matter.

Earthgirl, Sum Succubus;

What strange, ill informed, biased, little worlds you both live in. Clearly, of your own creation and vastly different given the screen names. One who professes a oneness with the earth, yet, clearly lacks any understanding of how violent the natural world is. The other calls herself a female demon. So how attached to reality can she be?

Confiscate all guns, how do you two propose to do that? Surrendering a gun requires a desire to follow the law, if such a law were passed, do you suppose criminals would follow them? They currently break the law at every turn. Stop the sale of all guns to civilians? Do you realize what a hit to an already teetering economy that would be? Considering there is an estimated 203 million guns currently in the U.S., and given that even in the Euro Nanny states, many did not turn in their guns, I think this would be a exorcise in futility. Prohibition didn't work with alcohol, it did make the Kennedy's rich. Joe Kennedy, father of JFK, Bobby and Ted made his money selling liquor to the east coast MOBSTERS, you know organized CRIMINALS?. Look it up.

All that would accomplished is creating a black market of guns and the price going through the roof. But then, the brainwashed Brahmin of the world thinks that passing a law will magically make all the bad things go away. Has Meth gone away?, Crack, Heroin, drunk drivers? No my unenlightened fellow posters, Guns are not biodegradable, at least not for decades, and they will only be hidden away.

Please explain Switzerland, where nearly every home in the country houses a pistol and machine gun, supplied by the government. The difference is they don't have the lack of respect for human life our thug infused, violence glorifying, I, Me, I, Me, and screw you culture has become. Add to that the fact that, 201 million legal, Responsible gun owners killed no one Thursday it kinda makes your calls for prohibition sound a bit simple minded. Cars kill far more people per year than guns, why no calls to ban them? What's the difference, they are both inanimate objects, neither can do anything without an operator. So please explain the fundamental difference between a gun and any other mechanical contrivance.

Media is largely to blame for glorifying these idiots. They make is seem the Boogie man waits around every corner. For my part, I like to see the good in people and these sorts of morons are the exception, not the rule. But, the "Oh government great leaders save me form all things bad and any misfortune", types seek to hand over all liberties and freedoms for a measure of protection and security. Pathetic, grow up, the police can't be everywhere, unless we hire and train one for every citizen. Do you really need a personal cop 24/7? How very sad for you.

Until people are held fully accountable for their actions and punished according and until some measure of respect is restored to our society, this will continue, Lacking a gun, they will use a knife, club or perhaps a large SUV to mow down hundreds at a crowded sporting event, concert, wedding, funeral, etc. No laws will stop the deranged, unhinged, or those with a grudge, an axe to grind from committing horrific crimes. Genocide is illegal, yet, it happens to this very day. Slavery is illegal, it too continues unabated. Take off the rose colored glasses and stop drinking the government supplied kool-aid and see the world for the wonderful place it is, but with all things, where there is light, there is also the darkness. Fortunately, the dark is still the exception.

You know, I keep seeing these posts about France, England, and Spain disarming peacefully. There is a very large difference here that is being ignored. Historically, we are a country that was founded with firearms. France, England, Spain...not so much.

Since it's inception, the United States had to be tamed. We had to fight off animals and Indians to get the land we wanted (considering I'm part Indian...oops, native American...I don't fear making that statement. The English and French settlers won. I move on). They did it with firearms. Even after the nation broke away from Enland, they still needed firearms to fend off the bears, wolves, cyotes, and feed themselves with. There was no Food Lion, ShopRite, or whatever else. When the south feared the government becoming to tyrannical and taking away land rights, they rose up with firearms to defend their land. Firearms are simply a part of this country. England, France, and Spain...how many times have they been ruled over by whoever came along and conquered? Do your history and find out about Nepolian, Musilini, the Sarisan rule in Spain, the Third Riecht, and various other things. In those countries, only gentlemen have firearms and they are mostly for sport.

This is our history. It is part of our heritage. Only now, we defend ourselves from the animals that roam the streets instead of the bears. I am still partial to Venison and wild Turkey (which is much sweeter meat then what is sold in any store). And even with the cost of my Sportsman licence and hunting/fishing equipment, it works out cheaper then shopping. And speaking of cheaper, what would the cost be for a member of my family (wife and/or children) were they to be harmed by one of the animals mentioned above?

People say these things out of fear. "Oh my god!! Get rid of all guns!!!" How about instead of things like this realize that if you make laws to get rid of guns, only police and criminals will have guns. The rest of us will just be targets for the next up and coming gang banger. That may not be a reality in some of your comfortable suburbs yet, but it could be.

No, I have no fear of the second amendment being repealed. I don't have a fear of my right to hunt and be a responsible weapon owner being taken. I do on the other hand, wonder where some of you live that the thought of taking away guns makes you safer. I would love to live in that kind of world. But this is still the United States. A place ruled by greed. A place where some are taught to take what you want. A place where consequence is no longer to be feared, because when you commit the crime you'll get three hots and a cot. I do believe in Justice and I do believe in Safety. In this story, a teacher talked down someone who was not mentally unstable. He was just angry and probably did not want to be doing what he was doing. He just saw or knew no other way. Maybe because he was never taught it. A firearm is a last option. Unless we (as responsible gun owners) teach our children that, these things will continue to happen. Life is not Hollywood. Maybe someone should have taught this kid that.

JD;

They probably live in your aforementioned England, France, Spain or any of the old Monarchies and empires of Europe and Asia.

Let's be honest with the statistics shall we? The "rampant proliferation" of weapons is a bit of a stretch. You realize they used to be much easier to obtain (no background checks, no age restrictions, available via the Sears catalog, etc) and what has happened with crime over the last 10-15 years as more guns are available? Crime has gone down - that's a fact regardless of whether you attribute it to the number of weapons sold.

Talk about a bit of a stretch. Look at Chicago. You really want to lump all types of crime into one big category so you can claim crime has gone down. GUN violence has not gone down in Chicago where guns are indeed rampant. The far right is notorious for failing statistical analysis (as in bypassing it altogether) when they want to link two things as having a cause & effect relationship. It was snowing when my kids were born. That doesn't mean that snow caused me to have children. Many things have changed within law enforcement, the judicial system, our social environment, etc etc etc over the past 10-15 years. You can't pick & choose which is related to which because it suits your purposes.

Gun violence has become a fact of life in this country that it was definitely not when I was growing up. And I grew up in Los Angeles. We had the Watts Riots but we did not have the type of every-day instances of people using guns indiscriminately just to get what they want whether it's a big heist or merely a pair of tennis shoes, intimidate others, get rid of anyone they think looked at them the wrong way, because they're frustrated with life or whatever & with no regard for human life or the pain they are causing to those who love & care about the people they kill like we have today.

America has the least restriction on the obtaining if a gun of most any country in the world from what I've read. And the incidence of gun violence here is also among the highest in the world.

There are places that are more dangerous of course, but for a so-called "civilized" nation & one in the social & economic bracket we're in, our statistics in this respect are abysmal. And that includes our social issues with the growing number of poor which fosters illiteracy & gang mentality.

There are a myriad of causes behind gun violence. And you can't just ignore them because you want to tell people to behave properly. You have to address the causes or you'll never change anything & the problems will only get worse. And that includes the easy access to guns be it legal or illegal. There are certainly a lot of illegally obtained guns involved, but there are also many that were obtained through legal means or obtained through someone else who got them legally but failed to be the responsible gun owner I'm sure they also claimed to be despite leaving them where they kid or a friend of their kid or a friend of theirs could easily access them.

And that's the problem. You can't go door-to-door double checking on how guns are kept in legal households. So you can't force legal owners to be responsible. You can only punish them after it's too late.

You can't turn around a life-time of neglect & make a kid a decent citizen. You have to do something about the economic conditions children are being raised in & the type of education & support in respect to that education that they're receiving as they grow up.

You have to prevent the causes before they happen. Once they have, you can't change their effects. You can only try to contain them by measures such as trying to reduce the number of guns in the country & the ready access to them. Especially the un-monitored access like we've had at gun shows & private gun sales for years & where the killing power of the guns offered has escalated dramatically. Just as the killing power of guns has escalated beyond anything the framers of the Constitution could have envisioned when they spoke of an armed militia & the right to bear arms (note they did NOT say any type of arms or arms in any amount, etc etc etc). They didn't specify that the insane could have that right infringed upon but do you really support the position that we cannot pass laws preventing such individuals from legally obtaining firearms? Where do you draw the line?

I have no problem with people being permitted to legally own the type of "arms" available at the time of the signing of that document. I DO have a problem with people being allowed to own many of the types of guns that are available today & with having no restrictions on the type & number of guns & ammunition for them they're permitted to own.

And without extremely strong gun laws, law enforcement at the national, state & local level are handicapped when it comes to doing anything that will significantly impact the availability of guns through illegal means. Punishment has never been a very effective deterrent for anything be it raising a child or preventing crime. And it certainly doesn't reduce the damage done since it occurs after the fact. Only fools think that it's the answer...or that more guns is.

The majority of the time, if there is a gun in a household, it's more likely to be used by an intruder or other family member against the owner or other member of their family than it is to be used successfully to protect the owner or their family from harm. That's a statistical fact, not a fabricated cause & effect relationship.

Why people want guns so much is beyond me. I like target practice a lot though I don't own a gun (some family & friends do however). I think it's fun. Just not if it's done at the expense of other living creatures. I don't personally support killing other living creatures except for the preservation of life which includes food but not if there is plenty of food available through other means & I am not saying people have to become vegetarians). We waste far more food than we eat as it is though. Our grocery stores through out lots & lots of food that should have been put to better use...though many are doing good work in turning some of that around in cooperating with food banks & charities to help the poor. The idea of animals being killed for enjoyment under the guise of a need for food is something I find abhorrent & basically evil.

So yes, we have a lot of issues in play when it comes to causes of gun violence. But without the guns, those involved would still be violent (until we address the other problems as well), but they would be unable to exact the toll of misery & suffering that they're doing today.

We can never eliminate violence, be it gun, knife or fist, entirely. But we can sure do a better job of reducing it & especially in reducing its consequences than we're doing now.

They are very stupid, Sadden! Very very stupid and very very naive.

Ignorant?

And what was ignorant about what I stated? Do you actually think that talking would have stopped the Aurora shooting? The Sandy Hook? 9/11?

Just how ignorant are you?

@Sadden - no he did not shoot the person he wanted to shoot, he didn't "do what he wanted to do and was done." His aim was off for whatever reason and he shot the "wrong" student and was aiming again to shoot the "right" student.

This teacher was nothing but a hero, as heroic as the school personnel who stood up to Landis at Sandy Hook but unfortunately perished. As much bravado as I'm hearing on all these posts, until you are there, facing a gunman who wants to shoot again, and trying to "talk him down" while simultaneously trying to get your 30 students to safety, you don't know what brave is. Yes, he is lucky the shooter didn't shoot him but the teacher was willing to try to stop a blood bath and felt that to protect his students the risk was worth his life. To me he is absolutely a hero.

Not to sure where you got your info, big dog, but I never said the teacher wasn't a hero. Fact is, had that kid really wanted to keep killing, he would have... and that hero would have not been able to do a damn thing.

You're a fool if you think talking will do much if the shooter doesn't care... Sandy Hook KNEW we was going to die... he didn't, but he was sure he was going to die in the gun fight, THAT'S why he shot so much, why he killed so much.

This guy didn't want to kill, but he did and stopped...

Sudden American, I think maybe the point is that, had the teacher not talked him down in this situation the kid would have kept talking. Bear with me.

The shooter was determined to shoot KidA but accidentally shot KidB, so now his nerve is kind of shot. That could leave him open to distraction if he doesn't go on to shooting KidA right away -- like the distraction of the teacher talking him down. Which is what happened.

No, the teacher didn't know he'd shot the wrong kid and was reachable; all he knew was he had to try, and did. And it worked.

@ Sadden - I don't consider myself a fool or a nutjob at all. I'm not anti-gun nor am I pro-gun. What I am saying is that the shooter wasn't done - he shot the wrong person and was ready to shoot again. He was actually taking aim when the teacher talked him into putting the gun down. In his case talking to the teacher gave him time to decide not to shoot any more which is probably what he really wanted all along. However, had the teacher just stood around with his thumb inserted, or ran after the kids he was herding into safety the shooter would have, could have kept shooting. It was probably a "soft" decision to start shooting so he was probably easier to convince than some other person with a "harder" reason for shooting (say insanity). But he definately was not done until he was convinced by the teacher that he was done.

I didn't imply, nor did I mean to imply that you did or didn't think the teacher was a hero. You didn't mention the teacher at all. That was just my editorial comment at the end of a post, a general comment to the general public who might happen to read my post.

He was sick of these two students bullying him.That is what he told the police.the weapon belonged to his sibling.This was on our local news station tonight.

@Just a cleaning lady - Are you from Bakersfield? Just wondering because I am and when you said your local news"... just thought maybe. (Bakersfield is the closest larger city to Taft for those that don't know)

You don't know how many kids bullied him. Maybe more to the point. Was this kid a criminal before yesterday. Well yes, A girl said last year he had a list of kids he wanted to hurt. Yet there he was yesterday. With a gun that was legally purchased, most likely. Guns that were Purchased legally have been used in most of the massacres of the last 2 years. We as a People should have no problem going trough a full background check. My step son got back from Afghanistan Just over a year ago. He bought a Hand gun. He was and is under DR. for mental issues from the war. How in hell did he get that gun. And he wanted a Bushmaster AR15 too. He has lost a job he had as a Armored Truck driver for carrying his Gun. You see he was still on probation at his job. He just had a little girl. But after Newtown, he no longer wants that bushmaster and he has sold his 9mm. Our generals even say those types of guns have no place in peoples hands.

Is it just me or does anyone notice a one sided pattern to the latest headlines...guns must go according to the headlines...how about criminals must go instead?

I have also noticed how the media sifts the news to find the stories that support an agenda but bury the ones that happen every day that prevent further loss...why is that?

Ever wonder why the government is so bent on taking everyones guns? Just read the Patriot Act and the NDAA of 2012 if you want a chill running up your back. History is about to repeat itself with sudden huge losses of personal freedoms that will allow the government to give many the illusion of security in exchange for the lost freedoms.

By the way I don't own a gun but I do support the freedom to do so to stop evil in its tracks if necessary.

Just because I disagree with the agenda of the left does that make me dangerous and somehow a threat? Since when is an opinion a threat?

Next

Notsosure...Will you please stop mimicing the asinine NRA guy that is spreading this nonsense about the government trying to take away all your guns? For God's sake! It is like petitioning the White House to deport Piers Morgan for supposedly trying to take away your 2nd Amendment rights.

How many of you ever really thought about our government becoming a tyrannical dictatorship before the NRA started spewing this BS? You really think our government could convince our military to turn on the people it is supposed to defend. You think our allies would allow this nation to be overthrown or taken over by a fascist dictator?

Notsosure10;

What's this? Someone who seems to understand the REAL issues? How can that be? With the current propaganda of the "we will run you life for you" crowd running things? I am surprised to see anyone other than myself talking in reasonable form, but then, I'm old and see things far clearer than most. I've watched the political crime syndicate in D.C. since 1958, and trust me, it has only gotten stranger and far more sinister. Unfortunately, those of this generation either can't or simple won't see politicians for what they are. Criminals in better suits.

My congratulations for not succumbing to the mind numbing drivel force fed us by those with an agenda and their faithful lackeys, the media. They do not have our best interests at heart, those who would deprive us of all liberties in favor of their preconceived utopia. As we said in the 60's, Wake up, it's later than you think. Never did I imagine such our political system would have degenerated into the crime syndicate it is. Suggested listening, the 1972 recording by Frank Zappa, The Slime. It pretty much sums up the media, and remember this was written in 1972. Imagine Mr. Zappa shock and disgust at the current state of affairs.

JerseyShoreMarie;

I hate to break it to you, but such questionnaires have been and continue to be given to our troops. Under LBJ I was given one to answer questions like, If Marshal law is imposed, would you, if order to, fire on American citizens? If a ban &/or confiscation of ownership of firearms be passed, Would you fire on American citizens to enforce said law or order?

No my misinformed friend, this has been floated many times. The results scared the crap out of the progressives of the time. 90% of enlisted men answered in the negative to the questionnaire. 99% of all Special forces (by virtue of comments on the returned questionnaire) were believed by government in such an event they would likely "defect" to the side of citizens and more likely than not, take their weapons systems with them.

Marie, you like most American Citizen have on idea what our government does on a day to day basis. If you knew a 10% of the crap they do, it should scare to the point of nightmares. These are NOT nice people. They become more sinister as time passes. As a former member of the Special Forces, I was deployed to places we were not supposed to be, doing things we weren't supposed to do. All for the greater good, funny how you can be convinced of their @!$%# when you young and stupid. Strange how most of these shooters are in their 20's or younger, isn't it? Young people frequently do irrational things for rational, ( at the time), sounding reason. Do yourself a favor Marie, question the motives of those in power, DO NOT trust those who profess to know what best for YOU! Remember these people give themselves raises in a down economy, pass laws to forward their agenda, not yours. The opted out of Obamacare, in favor of the old tax payer supplied, all inclusive, free to them health care. Paid for by all of us. When was the last time you got a 16% raise in salary like our El Presidenta' supreme Handed out to his staffers. If you trust anything calling itself politician, you must be brainwashed, a true believer or extraordinarily naive.

It's monkey see monkee do with these teenagers who are "mentally ill". It's a warped society problem and will only get worse. This is only get worse and will be as routine as a traffic report sadly to say......

MNJL170,His sibling owned the gun.That gun should have been secured.What we need are more parents raising their children to do the right thing.He was being bullied by these two students and his parents should have paid attention as should the school.

Your statement is a start. We need to have this conversation. I don't think the answer is more guns, but I don't think our Gov't can say no guns. I don't know the answer but really think we should all try to find one.

No one is saying NO GUNS. That is the knee jerk reaction to the broach of the subject of gun control by people that, based on a knee jerk reaction, are probably not stable enough to be trusted with guns.

I tell you what. I have a 15 yo girl and she get sexually harassed every day. She has been threaten that if she tells anyone she will be beaten and gang raped. I am going to have to take her out of school and let her do online schooling for her own safety. This guy tried to do something to her on the bus ride home. My daughter is well liked and a football player seen what was going on and gave the boy a good beating and then he was kicked off the bus. Well his parents cried to the school and one week later he was back on the bus. Well every day he gets his ass kicked. The day will come when he gets his hands on a gun and goes to school with it, or just does the School bus. Its coming and we know its coming. My daughter isn't going to be there when it happens. This boy needs to disappear, The law can't do anything until he does something, well that's to late. They have kicked him out of school several times, they just can't seem to keep in gone.

Grand pa. From one Gram pa to another. No one but the NRA has ever said anything about all guns. All talk is about Assault weapons and the clips that hold 30 rounds and more. Making sure that Crazy don't get hold of these guns. I keep hearing about responsible gun owners. I bet not on in a million have there guns stored properly. That nut job in Newtown didn't have her's locked up and her nut job son killed her with her own guns. There are meaningful things that can be done. The NRA is going down if they try to get in the middle of this one. They are already telling everyone that bad President is going to take there 2 amendment rights away. What a lie. 80% of this country is behind the President, because he just wants to do the right thing and what the American people have asked him to do. The NRA don't have enough money to fight all of us. And if the do nothing congress don't do what is needed, then they will Pay sooner rather then latter. This isn't going away. We have hit critical mass and we will not be denied.

Nut cases just another word for teenage boys, brother. This is the kind of carnage and chaos god done be bringing to our wicked country. Amen

What are you blabbing on about, Tea whatever? If you are saying that all teenage boys are nut cases, then you are saying when these things happen, boys will be boys". I doubt very much that if God was going to punish our wickedness, he would choose little innocent children to be his target.

Well said Sadden. Good point!

Sadden: Want to preach? Go to church.

Where was your Jesus when those 20 innocent children were being murdered in Newtown?

Rasputin, I find it sad that you feel need to insult others for having different beliefs than you. That is is the problem with this country, not guns. It is our inablity to have a rational discussion without insults. I sure hope you feel validated today......... It's obvious that you are anti gun ownership, are you also against freedom of speech if it differs from your beliefs?.....

Rasputin, where was Jesus?

Simple, He was there to take those children home with Him... God did not cause this to happen, it was the parents of the man that killed them, as well as the man that did this unspeakable act.

IT's people like YOU that caused Newtown... you hate God, you hate America, you hate your children... all you think of is how to hate.

Yes, I blame you, and your ilk, for Newtown...

" if Jesus were here, you and your ilk would have banned him from being in that school... would be disparraging Him and His teaching, and would have Him arrested for your fictitious notion of some imaginary seperation of Church and State..."

Saddly, they already did that in the 60's...I was there when it happened...

AJ

"Where was your Jesus when those 20 innocent children were being murdered in Newtown?"

He was outside the school, because he is no longer allowed on the inside.

If you're going to have Jesus in the schools, then you're also going to have to have Mohammed in the schools. And also witches and warlocks to represent the Pagans. Are you OK with that?

No one can argue that the Constitution doesn't forbid the government from favoring one religion over another.

sadden was the one who began the insults. "You and your ilk . . . would have arrested Jesus . . ." That is patently untrue, so he begins by accusing people of intending acts he cannot possibly know they would do. That sounds pretty hostile and judgmental to me.

I don't believe this shooter was mentally ill. It sounds as though he may have been desperate to stop others from bullying him. Thus, engaging him in conversation was effective. Holmes and Lanza were psychotic and delusional and determined. I doubt that anyone could have engaged them in conversation because they would have been shot before they could open their mouths.

I also don't believe that arming teachers would be effective against these kinds of psychotics. They enter a room with guns blazing. By the time a teacher could reach for a weapon it would be too late. Teachers are not combat trained. You can teach someone to point, aim and fire, but without boot camp and combat experience they are not going to have the reflexes necessary to act in time to save anyone. Think about your kindergarten teacher. Remember sweet and gentle Miss Emily? Can you even begin to imagine that gentle little lady somehow going instant commando? Neither can I.

The only way to protect people from killers like Lanza and Holmes is to prevent them from owning weapons like the ones they were able to obtain. This is why we need regulations and registration and restrictions on the ownership of weapons like these. This is why we need background checks that include mental health screening and interviews with the people who know the applicant. Sometimes people with major mental health issues have not received treatment, but the people around them probably know that something is wrong. We also need to change our laws regarding mental health commitments to locked facilities. When it is known that a mentally ill person represents a threat to himself and others we need to have the authority to lock them up in a controlled environment before they kill anyone.

I will agree that people kill other people in a wide variety of ways. Guns, knives, cars, fists and whatever other handy objects are available. But if the weapon used against you is a gun it doubles your chances of dying. I would prefer to try to outrun a knife or a baseball bat than a bullet.

We also need to screen for alcohol abuse. Half of all domestic murders happen when one or both parties are drunk. Chronic drunks should not have guns. Drunks are irrational, argumentative and aggressive. Why do you think there are so many bar fights?

Eliminate the gun show loopholes and outlaw all internet and catalog sales of weapons. Any weapon sold in the secondary market should only be sold after law enforcement has had the opportunity to do the same screening on that buyer as they would have with anyone purchasing weapons from a primary source.

For those who say only criminals will have guns, I have to ask you, where do you think the criminals got these guns? They stole them during the course of a burglary, or purchased them from a previous owner without any background check, or they ordered them through the internet or bought them at a gun show. It is simply too, too easy for a criminal to obtain a weapon. Closing off some of the avenues to criminal purchases could only help.

No one with a history of violence should be able to buy a gun. Any kind of an assault, be it domestic, in a bar, or against a citizen in the commission of a crime, should preclude one from owning a gun.

No where am I saying that decent, law abiding citizens should not be able to purchase a gun for personal protection or hunting. I am saying we need laws to prevents guns from ending up in the hands of criminals and madmen.

Underemployed you are a voice of reason .

Sadden. You use that like the NRA uses the 2nd amendment. We are a country of many religions. That is why we don't allow God in schools and any other Government agency's. Witch God would you put in. Just Jesus? What about the Jews, they don't believe in Jesus. What about teaching the Koran, or Using Mohammad as the God. There are many religions, with different Gods. The Only way to be far is not to allow any of them. School is not the Place to teach and or push your Religion upon others. You have Church's for that.

Sadden: People like you are the problem. You use God and Jesus to hide behind. If Jesus were here, he would tell men do stop killing each other. Jesus would never back a war. Yes your kind say God is on our side. Bulls it. The NRA hides behind the 2nd amendment like you hide behind Jesus. Sadden are a member of the NRA? I am a Christian, but I stopped going to church. I am so sick of the people that call themselves Christian and don't know what it means to be one. They are only Christians on Sunday for 1 hour. Then its back to sinning all they want. I see all the Senators that say what good Christians they are and get found with Prostitutes like David Veter. But he said he is a Christian and he is forgiven. What Bull@!$%#. The Church I was a belonged, they didn't care to help anyone but their self. If you didn't have money, you were not welcome there. And the Preachers, they don't preach from the bible, they preach hate and get Guns because we have to take out Country back. Back from who? From the Rest of us. The Minority wants to rule the Majority. Sorry about your luck, that's not the way it works here in America. You are the one that hates America and American. I guess if we don't go to the church you tell us to go to then we are not american. I say that 98% of people that claim to be Christian are no such thing. You are Wolf's in sheep's cloths. No one is buying it any more.

Rasputin-2589057

Sadden: Want to preach? Go to church.Where was your Jesus when those 20 innocent children were being murdered in Newtown?

Not too bright there Rasputin.... Ever See Devil's Advocate??? "Free Will, it is a b*tch..."
Free Will little buddy means Jesus, God, Allah, whoever, does not get directly involved, we all have Free Will and can use that Free Will to be a jerk or not...

Your hate filled anti religious comments do not help, I am not saying they hurt but, clearly you are more interested in dragging other down then helping them up.

Underemployed, it's obvious why you are underemployed. You try to speak like you know what you are talking about but you obviously don't. You mention eliminating guns sold on the Internet, catalog sales and gun shows. Evidently you aren't aware that ALL those sales are REQUIRED to go through a FFL Dealer. That's a Federal Firearms Licensed dealer, that MUST complete the Federal forms and REQUIRES the Federal & State background check before the firearm can be released to the buyer. ALL dealers that sell on the Internet MUST ship the guns they sell to an FFL dealer in the area of the buyer's choice and MUST do the background check before releasing the gun to the buyer. By Federal law, already in place, the Internet dealer CANNOT ship directly to the buyer. There is NO gun show loophole either! A FFL dealer at a gun show MUST comply with Federal rules or loose his license. And the SAME thing for a catalog sale. I'll bet you don't have a clue what the difference in an automatic, a select fire and a semi-auto weapon is either, do you? And I'll bet you think the AR as in AR-15 stands for Assault Rifle, don't you? No, the AR stands for the Armalite Company that first designed, patented and sold the rifles. So, now we know you spout off 'facts' that you know nothing about and pass on misinformation that "informs" others that know nothing either. If you don't know what you are talking about, stop talking!

Paladin,

Don't confure the narrative with facts.

Facts=Not Scary.

Narrative= SCARY, i.e, "assault weapon", "internet sales", "weapons of war", "high capacity", "gun show loop hole", "NRA", "Easier to buy than a pack of gum", etc, etc, etc.....

We don't have to so research with the media and progressive politicians feeding the "scary facts" to us. We don't need to bother ourselves with finding the truth on our own.

The label is "Gun Control", the real intent is "Total Control". That cannot be obtained with people living by the pesky 2nd Amendment contained in the "outdated document" that these people use to wipe their arses with every time they pass legislation for the "people" to live by. (They have NO intention of living by it, they are the "Leaders". Socialism is for the people, not the socialist). Anybody that believes "we don't want to ban ALL guns, just certain types of guns" deserves what is coming to them. Today it's "this gun", next time it's "that gun", until theres no more guns left to ban.

Seriously, you believe all that??

Had this guy wanted to kill more, he would have... what's going to stop him?

It's appearant that once he fired his weapon, he lost his nerve... that THAT'S what saved the day.

According to the report he was looking to shoot again but the intervention of the teacher distracted him long enough that the other students escaped. Without his intended victim present, he indeed just stopped trying.

Jermaine Tobey

So you think that it would have came out the same way if the guard were there? He wouldn't have shot the kid? He would have just TALKED him out of it? The only reason the teacher didn't get shot was because the kid didn't WANT to shoot him. Yes in 99.999% of circumstances , it would take another gun to take care of a situation like this. To think otherwise is moronic at best.

Hey Mikey,According to the Kern County sheriff tonight on our local news station he was sick of being bullied by two students.He was not out to massacre more people.He claims that he ha been bullied by these two and was sick of it.His sibling owned the unsecured weapon.His parents are clueless.That's the problem,the parents.

Jermaine Tobey

Wayne Lapierre of the NRA said that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun. The heroes this day show that to be completely wrong.

While I agree that it worked for him, and that he is a hero, thinking that this would work in most cases is wishful thinking at best. Lapierre is right, most the time if you don't have a gun you will get hurt, raped, robbed, or killed. This kid had specific targets in mind, he didn't want to kill the teacher, that's why it worked, he was not a total nut job. Now if someone assaults you with the intention to either hurt or kill you, have fun trying to talk him out of it.

So the woman in Dallas should have talked to the guy that broke into her house? Maybe invited him in for tea and finger sandwiches? A real good encounter group perhaps...then he would have just left on his own.

Well wrong sometimes anyway.

I agree, he needs a medal.

@Bob - I live in Bakersfield, Kern County (very close to Taft, also Kern County) and we do have cops in the high schools. They are there to not only enforce the law but to be a presence in the school and to interact with the students. My son graduated in 1995 and they were a presence thru-out all his HS years so this has been in effect for quite some time here.

@Bob - I live in a pretty nice suburb with a very low crime rate, and we have had full time police officers at all the middle and high schools for as long as I can remember, and part timers at the grade schools.

From what I understand, the officers with the most outgoing personalities are selected for this duty.

So what you are all saying is that maybe the NRA wasnt crazy about putting armed persons/law enforcement in the schools? I personally am for law enforcement being positively positioned in schools. Building a healthy relationship with local law enforcement is good for kids. It also teaches them that they can rely on the police if they are in trouble and that they should respect the police.

Interesting, because while the world was imploding about that comment, most need only walk to their local schools to find that is already happening.

So what you are all saying is that maybe the NRA wasnt crazy about putting armed persons/law enforcement in the schools? I personally am for law enforcement being positively positioned in schools. Building a healthy relationship with local law enforcement is good for kids. It also teaches them that they can rely on the police if they are in trouble and that they should respect the police.

Interesting, because while the world was imploding about that comment, most need only walk to their local schools to find that is already happening.

I have no objection to police officers being at school sites. It's good community relations. It assists in keeping the kids in line. It reduces the number of fights, etc. etc. But Columbine had two officers on site and they were ineffective. Taft had one officer on site and he was ineffective. School sites, especially at the middle school and high school level are very large and no one or two officers can be everywhere at once.

I very much resist the idea of arming teachers or using volunteers. They are not trained to deal with the James Holmes/Adam Lanza types of situations. These are essentially combat situations and people without the proper training and experience would either be ineffective, taken out before they could be effective, or likely to make the situation worse by catching students in a crossfire. There is also the issue of how law enforcement is supposed to tell the good guys from the bad guys when they arrive on scene. Be really great if they took down the teacher instead of the shooter.

Schools don't want the responsibility of screening volunteers with guns. If they're wrong, the volunteer could become the shooter and the school would be responsible.

On this note; When Congressman Giffords was shot, it was a few individuals that were able to restrain the shooter and get the gun from him. I person nearby heard shhooting and came out and saw a man holding the gun. Had he shot him, he would have shot one of the heroes, not the bad guy.

Rasputin, take your sarcasm and insinuations and stuff them...

Rasputin-2589057,

I'm NRA. Been so for over 20 years. I'm not celebrating, don't feel like celebrating because this is not a cause for celebration. The only slightly tarnished silver lining around this shooting incident cloud is that it only injured two people; one not too seriously.

Rasoutin, way to further the discussion with intelligent discourse. Aren't you late for your discussion group on Das Kapital........ Bring your your Bolshevik trading cards for autographs.

Wow, like shooting fish in a barrel.....

Ban guns and they will use knifes, ban those and they will use bats, if they want to take out a bunch at one time, explosive are easy to make. We need to get to the root of what sets people off. Always be kind to other but until we solve the problem we should be able to protect ourselves. No I do not support the NRA, but I do support being able to protect me and my loved ones. Do I own guns, yes three, all antiques and only one fire's, a twelve gauge handed down by my Great Grandfather that will never be used unless needed.

Extensive background checks is a must. Family member's with violent tendencies must be reported and monitored. In my opinion bad tempers and spoiled rotten kids should be of concern, but my right to protect myself and others should never be an omitted option.

I have seen Raspuken before. He is just a troll that stirs up $hit. He just acts like a kid , trying to get a rize out of the adults.

Deerhunter-

Do you mean adults like Ursa who starts talking about Das Kapital?

There's a lot of insults flying from both sides. I feel sometimes like I'm back in High School and two guys are taunting each other while people on the sides egg them on. Some days I wish the internet had never been invented.

tmaple howzitwrk..... I hate that excuse to do nothing because people will use other methodologies. Your statement amount to well because humans are flawed we should try to do nothing to improve the human condition????? A guns' only function is to cause harm. It has no other function. Things whose only function is to cause harm need to be closely controlled. I don't understand any debate to the contrary.

Tab L. Uno from Utah,

Talking down a potential shooter is a possible solution. It certainly was in this case. However, the shooter in this case was LIKELY not a person with a criminal mind.

The mindset of many criminals, the real ones that are or have been locked up for the commission of violent crimes and have not been rehabilitated, is not one that yields itself to a talking solution. Bascially, the criminal wants what he wants when he wants it. Any obstacle, even if it is a person, is just that: An obstacle to be pushed aside, knocked down, blown away, whatever it takes to get what the criminal wants. The criminal does not care if in attaining his/her goal another person is injured or killed because the criminal does not see others a people; just obstacles or possibly a partner in crime. Attempting to talk with a criminal will often make the criminal consider you to be contemptable; not worth any consideration.

The problem for someone who finds himself or herself in a position similar to what the teach was in today, is to determine with what sort of person you are dealing. Sometimes, there just isn't enough time for that.

I would like to add to that, the fact that the woman who shot the intruder had been pursued into a closet, and was protecting her two children who were with her (as well as herself). Big difference between a 16 year old who was able to be talked down, and a burgler pursuing when he discovered the house's dwellers were still at home.

TeacherofEd,this was a case of bullying and it seems that his parents and the school were clueless about it or ignored his complaints.Either way I blame his parents.The weapon belonged to a sibling.It obviously was not secured and his parents were clueless that this young man left the house with it.

just a cleaning lady---- I too believe this was a case of bullying. I don't know how people can keep arguing about gun control when that isn't even the issue at hand. Bullying was the leading factor that caused this to happend, and I believe the solution doesn't lie on gun regulation, but on more enfaces on school bullying. P.S. I too am from Bakerfield, and I study in Taft College.

As for the school being aware of bullying, my son was picked on in middle school for being somewhat overweight, more interested in reading than playing contact sports, etc...He was pushed by some and kids that didn't even know my son tended to join in the taunts as they wanted to be in with the cool kids. I brought this issue to the attention of the principal on 3 different occasions and he told me that even though he privately believed that some kids and their parents deserve a real ass-kicking, there wasn't much to be done because no one wants to be labeled a snitch. I brought my son for counseling for a few years, and reassured him that he was a wonderful person. He now is out of HS, 6'3", slender and has many friends, but the scars still remain. We don't have guns in our home (except my husband's father's WWII rifle he took from a Japanese; I do not even know where the bullets are for it. My son did once punch a kid for making fun of and taunting his friend, but came home feeling very badly that he had done that. Maybe teaching your kids to be respectful of others and not become part of a mob mentality, may stop some of these kids from going off the deep end. I know that in the HS that my kids attended, there was a police officer on hand. The sad thing is that a bunch of bullies would attack a kid, and the others, rather than notifying an authority figure, would egg them on to fight. If the one attacked fought back (the policy is to crouch down and cover your head with your arms)you were suspended along with the attacker. Teaching respect and kindness goes a long way and would help to curb the violence that the gun-owners feel they need to protect themselves from.

The NRA is an organization made up of gun owners. The teach gun safety & responsibility. You really need to educate yourself before telling lies about them. Don't like them? Don't join them. I haven't been a member for 20 years , but after all the Bull $hit I have been reading about them, I joined back up. In the last month my son, son-in-law & my brother have joined also. Strength in numbers. But I guess you Lefturds know all about that right?

The NRA is a political lobby spending money in Washington to promote access to guns in our society, like it or not. Wayne LaPierre is not just a simple gun owner, he's a lobbyist. I might add, somehow after Sandy Hook he also mysteriously became an expert on mental health issues and violence in video games and movies.

He also erroneously was trying to tell Piers Morgan that he was absolutely was wrong when he said that there were only 30 or so gun deaths in Britain last year and that in fact there were 950+. LaPierre is a slime...He shows no compassion, just an unbelievabl arrogance and takes pleasure in getting gun-owners all riled up.

MeanG

This kids life was likely turned around. He will get the help he needs. You obviously have not yet.

Really Kammaina? What are the latest stats on criminal recidivism with teenage offenders? Please enlighten me. I await your reply with bated breath. I believe the odds are not in his favor, and something is obviously mentally wrong with this kid.

Hey Ursa,

A bit nihilistic wouldn't you say? Neither you nor I know anything about the boy, except what is reported. Recidivism is a corrections term. I made reference to treatment. The fact that he responded to an intelligent, caring adult and put the gun down is a good prognostic sign for treatment

A bit nihilistic wouldn't you say? Neither you nor I know anything about the boy, except what is reported. Recidivism is a corrections term. I made reference to treatment. The fact that he responded to an intelligent, caring adult and put the gun down is a good prognostic sign for treatment

TREATMENT? Are you out of your ever lovin' mind? The only treatment that will work in a case like this is the electric chair.

This kid is dead. You know he's expelled from school, right? He did break a few school rules after all.

He's not going to graduate High School. Not possible. He's also going to go into the work force with no diploma and a felony rap. He's not employable. Anywhere. Not even Wal-Mart. He's useless. Nobody is going to employ a guy who shot up a school. That's a non-starter.

Even if this kid gets "rehabilitated" he's done. For life. This is the information age. The internet remembers everything. Forever. You can get a background check on anybody with services like Spokeo and you think employers don't know that?

This kid is done. He committed a news-making crime in the 21st century. Do you know what that means? His skid marks won't ever fade. He won't ever live this down. He could be applying for a job 40 years from now and the interview will be like "remember when you shot up a school?. We do. Goodbye."

Treatment is worthless. The damage is done. The life is ruined. You don't screw up this bad and recover.

You don't know any of those things to be true. He will obviously be expelled from this school. His continued presence there would be disruptive at best. He will be evaluated and then authorities will determine the proper way to handle him. That could be jail. He could be charged as an adult. He could receive probation. He could be involuntarily committed for mental health care. There are a variety of possibilities and we have no way to know which way will be chosen.

I can tell you that his education will continue regardless of the disposition of his case. The law says that he must be educated until he is eighteen. He will get a high school diploma.

I can also tell you to stop prejudging this case. Since we know little to nothing about this boy, we cannot predict his future. I know of cases where teenagers have done serious crimes and still manage to turn their lives around and get a college education and go on to make a real contribution to society. I know of other cases where teenagers just kept on offending until they became permanent residents of some prison facility somewhere.

It is certainly possible that this kid was being bullied to a degree that left him absolutely desperate and to his immature mind, a gun was his only solution. The idea of a gun as a solution is being pushed on our kids everyday, by movies, by videogames and by many of those who post on these vines, and, last but not least, by the NRA. Kids have trouble putting things into perspective because they don't have the life experience to know that all things evolve and change. They think the way their lives are now is the way they will be forever. That's why kids are more likely to commit suicide than mature adults. They are stuck in the "now".

Hopefully, the courts will take all factors into consideration and adjudicate this appropriately.

"They talked him into putting the shotgun down."

You mean more guns weren't needed to diffuse the situation?? Shocking! The NRA is not going to be happy about this.

Good point GTRMN,

I am getting the same histrionic junk mail from gun advocate friends who also sent Tea Party inanity.

I knew the intellectualism displayed by gun advocates on these blogs and elsewhere had the flavor of Sarah Palin and Michele Bachman. Thanks for putting it all together.

I read your entire statement. All it is is insult piled upon insult. Obviously trying to hold an intelligent discussion with you would not be possible. Perhaps the reason for that is you actually have no intelligent statement to offer.

I will make an intelligent observance

In 1972 we had armed cops in my schools.

We had no school shootings

Students never killed other students with guns.

Perhaps the problem lies with liberal education and lack of responsibility of parents raising children who have a regard for a human life.

In 1972 we also had lots of guns.

It might be better to look at enviromental factors that cause children to kill with no regard.

But instead just write more worthless laws that make you feel better.

please never deal with the problem at hand.

You're welcome. It's not hard to outwit the kids. tell them something they don't understand, (most things) and watch their head spin until they blow. Exactly the people that should be banned from guns, knives, sharp or shiny objects, plastic bags, not razors because we regulate them so as to not let them accidentally slit their throats, drain cleaner, etc. You get the picture.

Hey Auntie, through the 1950s, it wasn't uncommon for kids in rural areas to bring guns to school so they could hunt small game on the way home. Many schools had marksmanship teams, kept rifles and handguns on school property (and parents didn't wig out), and some even had shooting ranges inside the schools. Rifle drill teams used REAL rifles. All this access to guns, and the kids didn't shoot each other. Maybe because of NRA provided training? Respect for firearms? Respect for other people? Nah, couldn't have been any of those things. Must be just a big coincidence that none of those things exist today.

But Dave - On that same thread of thinking - how many people in the 1950s locked their doors at night? Now you need to lock the door to walk to the mail box. Things change.

And watching you behavior controllers is even better. Spitting out the same garbage, trying to create logical statements to take away our rights as Americans is not only laughable, but very pathetic.

Kids did kill teachers, students, and other kids at school long before the 70's. It is well documented at least as far back as 1853 when Matthew Ward (a student) shot his teacher in Louisville. The idea that "things were not as bad in the old days" is a myth. There wasn't the ability to hear about things the way we do today.

99.9%?? REALLY? Where did you get that stat!!!

You must be awesome to be able to pull that out of your arse!

your an idiot, dont you think most people hear burglars entering their home,ever hear of an alarm fool,or a broken glass,or a dog barking ,you need to not show your ignorence queenie its evident your flaming and your place is fire island with the rest of the woman,idiot,what an idiot ,now make another attempt at some attention because its clear you have nothing to offer,but those lips to Mr. Right........hahahahhahaha A S S H O L E

you just hope a big strong man would enter your house and tie you up with some ski rope and duct tape and tear off those baby doll 'jamas your so fond of and well you know how it ends ,you dream of it every night

GTRMN - seeing that 1.5 million people successfully use firearms to defend themselves every year (Clinton Justice Department estimate), and kill twice as many bad guys as do the cops (FBI statistics), firearms owners seem to have more grit than you give them credit for. A lot of them are also ex- and retired military, many with combat experience. More are retired cops. A lot of them are people you would not have the guts to spew your invective at in person.

Besides, what's so difficult about when the knock on the door comes, you suddenly forget where your guns are? "Sorry officers, I must have misplaced them. I'll let you know if they turn up."

your an idiot

Classic.

Mr john dellahoussaye

You comment regarding someone else hoping that a big, strong man will enter their house, tie them up with duct tape, tear off their babydoll pajamas, etc......I believe by your avatar picture, is indicatative of you projecting your fantasy upon someone else.

Whatever. See my post above. Do you think he's going to knock and tell you his intentions? I'm sure you're wife sleeps soundly knowing you're jerking off your gun all night.

You certainly prove that gun nuts and Tbaggers have latent homosexual tendency's. You are obviously a flaming queen. Go suck your gun.

GTRM - you do realize those "gun nuts" are comprised of the LEOs and active/retired military who keep you safe and allow you to troll these boards right? People who understand that there are criminals and evil people in this world and choose not to be victims are your target? Get out of your mom's basement and go pop some pimples while the adults have a conversation.

Delahousse is certainly a wonderful example of a gun owner. Foul mouthed, disrespectful and mean. I have trouble believing anyone would be willing to marry you, much less continue to live with you. Your violent rhetoric and childish behavior are examples of why not everyone should be allowed to own a gun. If you were my neighbor I would buy body armor. No, scratch that, I would move far, far away.

Delahousse acts like a troll--just wanting to stir the pot. Trolls don't even necessarily believe what they say--their goal is to get a rise, that's all. Attention.

GTRMN and john delahoussaye-4005759,

Can you guys please take your love fest elsewhere? Your are both making your respective sides look stupid...

Wow...Aren't we just the tough ones. Watch out that your wife doesn't turn the gun on you, Mr. Nice Guy.

So bullies should be shot? That sums up most gun owners. You could just get in a circle and have at it. No need to regulate that.

If most gun owners were as trigger happy and irresponsible as libtards try and paint us, there would be no libtards.

Spirit, just as I was thinking. If that was the case, I have no sympathy for the punk that got the buckshot. Bullies have no regard for people. Our prisons are full of those turds. In this case I would look at the vicitm that drove this shooter to that point. The shooter didn't just wake up in the morning and pick someone out. There was a reason that he picked out the "little angel".