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Subscribe to RSSJudge grants a request from James Holmes' defense team to postpone the arraignment of the suspected Aurora theater gunman until March 12. NBC's Leanne Gregg reports.
Families of Aurora massacre victims erupted in anger Friday when a judge postponed the arraignment of suspect James Holmes — with one yelling out, "Rot in hell, Holmes!"
At least four relatives or survivors stalked out when Holmes was granted two more months to decide how to plead to charges he murdered 12 people and wounded dozens during a shooting rampage at a Batman movie last summer.
Others cried in the courtroom or cursed in the corridor outside.
Steve Hernandez, father of murder victim Rebecca Wingo, vented his fury with the "rot in hell" outburst as the case was adjourned — and was gently admonished by the judge.
"I am terribly sorry for your loss. I can only begin to imagine the emotions that are raging," Chief Judge William Sylvester said as he repeated the decorum order that barred any outburst. Hernandez apologized and promised not to disrupt future proceedings.
It’s been almost six months since Holmes was arrested outside the Century 16 multiplex, and relatives are anxious for the case to move along.
They were hopeful that might happen when Chief Judge William Sylvester ruled late Thursday that prosecutors have enough evidence to put Holmes, 25, on trial and scheduled the arraignment for Friday.
But the defense said Holmes wasn't ready to enter a plea and convinced the court to postpone the arraignment until March 12 – over the objections of prosecutors, who said 84 victims or their loved ones opposed a delay.
Sylvester said that with more than 30,000 pages of documents and 220 DVDs filed in the case, both sides need more time to prepare and that forcing Holmes to enter a plea now could create grounds for an appeal.
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Steve Hernandez, right, father of slain Aurora victim Rebecca Wingo, arrives for a hearing for James Holmes. Hernandez later shouted, "Rot in hell, Holmes" and was admonished by the judge.
The grad-school dropout's lawyers are widely expected to mount an insanity defense and made several pointed references to their client's mental health during a preliminary hearing this week.
If Holmes enters a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity, he will likely be transferred to a state psychiatric facility, where doctors must evaluate him and issue a report before a trial date is set, legal experts say.
Scott Robinson, a Colorado defense lawyer who closely follows the case, said Holmes’ team could use the two-month delay to have their own mental-health experts evaluate him and help them prepare for the court-ordered exams.
Ed Andrieski / AP
Spectators arrive for a court proceeding for Aurora theater shooting suspect James Holmes on Friday. The judge granted a defense motion to delay the arraignment of Holmes until March 12, provoking anger from victims' relatives.
Many in the victims' camp are adamant in their belief that Holmes is not legally insane. They were particularly struck by new evidence at the hearing that suggested his planning may have begun two months before the July 20 slaughter.
Prosecutors revealed how he amassed an arsenal of weapons, booby-trapped his apartment and took photos of the Century 21 theater well before the ambush.
"He’s not insane. He's evil and there’s a difference," said Theresa Hoover, whose 18-year-old son, A.J. Boik, was killed.
Once Holmes enters a plea, the clock starts running on prosecutors, who have 63 days to decide whether they will seek the death penalty – which would drag out the case even longer.
Sam Soudani, whose 23-year-old daughter was gravely wounded at the theater, said he’s willing to wait if it means Holmes winds up on death row.
“The law has to take its course, and unfortunately, it will take a long time,” Soudani said. “I hate to say it, but he has his rights.”
Related stories:
Aurora massacre families brace for raw emotions of trial
'Help me!': 911 call reveals teen's desperation after relatives shot in Aurora theater
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He looks pretty sane in the picture
We all know that he is guilty, he should have been dead by now.
Tall tree and a short rope kinda situation.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Smart Judge, did not fall for a forced plea ; give both sides time to line up their experts; no matter what his plea, he will be convicted; then the appeals will start, take about 5-7 years; by the Judge not forcing a decision, one less appeal point; he is mentally ill, but not legally insane, he will spend the rest of his miserable life in solitary, what a useless pos !
Insane, evil, crazy, disturbed...I think it will take psychologists to determine what particular mental illness (for it is definitely one) caused him to act out some bizarre fantasy be it fear strikes out, getting back at whatever authorities "wronged" him BUT fact is he did commit this atrocity and should forfeit his life for doing so. If he were my son I would be shattered but at the same time would expect him to pay for his actions.
Vigilante justice is fun to read and probably feels good when you type it out. Thankfully, we live in America where due process is the law and vigilante justice is just something fun to wish for, in a pulp-fiction kinda way.
Saxon nailed it. The judge just removed 1 more thing this POS can base his appeal on. It's frustrating for the victim's families right now, but only for 2 more months. In the end, it will save them a lot of frustration by limiting the number of valid points he can raise on appeal.
Guilty by reason of being a sick, sadistic, F. He knew what he was doing. He planned it all and it was all very detailed. The booby traps and propping open the back door to the theater. He is guilty end of story.
I disagree, he looks like a total nut in every picture. This doesn't execuse what he did. Dude needs to get life in prison. Stalling for another two months only hurts the living victims and dead victim's families.
You don't have to be disturbed to be a killer....and I really don't care. He's a murderer, period. It's disgusting that a bunch of lawyers are allowed to infict more pain and anguish on his victims' families. Justice needs to be served. There is no doubt about his guilt. The planning involved, included the scumbag's attempt to take out police officers by booby trapping his apartment is, as far as I'm concerned, proof of his sanity. Deal with him, NOW!
One can only hope that there is indeed a special hell awaiting this mass murder.
My perspective won't likely be well received, but here it is anyway: Whether or not he is legally sane, there is obviously something very wrong with him. He seems to be a lot like the others who have committed these recent mass shooting atrocities. Shouldn't we try to find out why he did it before we rush to put the noose around his neck? Knowing the reason behind his horrible deed could help to stop this scenario from occurring again.
For all the sympathy we rightly have for the victims and their families, this guy's death will never bring them back. So instead, why don't we focus on stopping the next mass shooting?
Easy access to guns has got to be curtailed, coupled with improved access to mental health care.
@Saxon,
Bullshiat on the judge's decision, this was in no way a "forced plea". The defense has already had 6 months to prepare and decide on a plea. They are just stalling for time because they are having trouble finding "expert" witnesses stupid or greedy enough to lie in court for them.
This thing should have already gone to trial. There is no excuse for a scum like this to be allowed to delay his trial, when the only decision he should be making is whether he'd prefer to face a firing squad or the chair for his eventual execution.
careful kaybee, rational and dispassionate discourse is not what the lynch-mob mentality seeks.
With you kaybee. I know many want vengeance on this guy, but no matter what the outcome he'll never be free again. Death is too good for him. Life in the lockup is the harshest punishment on earth.
His crime doesn't come close to having 13,000,000 illegals in the US stealing resources from America's poor.
As an American, I can not get "disgusted" by due process. If I were a victim's relative, I'd want to be damn sure his prosecution was DONE RIGHT, not done hastily where the Appeal Door then swings wide open.
The victims families need to understand that in order to do this right, the i's need to be dotted and the t's need to be crossed. Everyone will be happier when if this is done correctly. Imagine how "disgusted" the victim's families would be if a rush to justice created errors and those errors were grounds for an appeal?
Rational and dispassionate discourse is a boring read. I come here for entertainment and do enjoy reading the average neanderthal's solutions that smack in the face of what this country was founded on and what every veteran has ever fought for.
I was in Aurora Colorado a year ago and saved James Holmes life. If I knew then what I know now, I would have never ran over that @!$%# eating dog !
Rot in hell James Holmes !
I'll bet these murders never would have happened if the theatre was playing "The Sound Of Music".
If James Holmes cofesses his sins to god and accepts Jeebus as his personal savior he can avoid rotting in hell and spend eternity in heaven.
It's always interesting to hear some reasonable opinions, like Saxon's and Harold's, amid all the vitriol and knee-jerk reactions of the uninformed. Clearly the judge is exercising an overabundance of caution to prevent problems in the future by removing points of appeal.
However, as a layman not schooled in the nuance of judicial process I always wonder why lawyers need such excessive amounts of time to complete a task, far beyond what anyone else would consider necessary, and then when called upon to produce a result they invariably say, we need more time your honor. Only when they have exhausted all reasonable deadlines and gone to extreme limits of everyone's patience, will they be pressed to make their motions.
Is there an unwritten understanding among the legal community? Judges say, 'Take all the time you need and then we'll give you some extra time. Since you're being paid by the hour, we don't want to you to stint. Tell us when you are ready.' The process drags on and on in this Bleak House we call a justice system.
In other news, the dude in the newly posted picture to this article is totally checking out that girl's butt.
Holmes started his buying spree with the online purchase of tear gas grenades. Then he legally bought nearly 6,300 rounds of ammunition, two Glock .40 caliber pistols, a .223 caliber semi-automatic rifle, a 12-gauge shotgun, ballistic protection clothing, beam laser lights, bomb-making material and handcuffs. Some of the purchases were made online and some were made in person.
Video surveillance taken as Holmes was buying several of the items in person showed that he had "reddish-orange hair" at the time. (Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but from all the photos of this guy, I wonder if his bizarre looks might have been a flag to someone selling all that stuff to him?)
There is no legal process in Colorado to keep anyone from selling these types of weapons to a severely mentally ill person.
In Virginia it is the same. A mentally insane person can waltz into any gun show and purchase assault weapons with no background check (you might be required to show a driver's license or some form of ID), then walk out packing.
ANYBODY THINK WE OUGHT TO CHANGE THIS?
He has the right to appeal anyway if convicted, and probably will.
Just because someone "looks" a certain way, doesn't necessarily mean that they are.
Some of the highest compensated people on earth are paid to "look" a certain way.
They're called actors.
And if sucessful, his compensation for his "act" will be life in a mental institution, instead of years on death row with a "lethal injection" as his final curtain call.
Duderino... you need to aware of how your comments could be perceived. For me, it's just past lunch. If I had read your comment 15 minutes ago, I would have blurted out a mouthful of food onto my monitor from the hilarity of your statement.
You could've cost me my monitor. Words have an impact y'know.
Good one bro. I laughed pretty hard when I went back to look the picture. That said, if you (or I) were him, your eyes (and mine) would probably be in the exact same place. :)
Uh, a person might be insane, but if he has not been into the system, or been reported to law enforcement, there is nothing to deny him his right to buy all that stuff. And he did not buy it all at one time or at one place. If a person in not in the system, a background check would not show anything.
His psychiatrist at C.U. was concerned about his mental state and had notified higher ups, who failed to act. This will all come out at the trial.
The longer it can be postponed, there's a better chance for life in prison as opposed to the death penalty. It's as if the justice system will exhaust all efforts to protect the criminal from the punishment he deserves.
This should be addressed as well as the gun problem.
No Judge, you can't imagine the emotions because you would have denied the defense attorney's request. They have had plenty of time to get their act (lies) together. All future appeals should be denied too.
Fyte 4 justice, yes, there is. It's spelled out in the "new lawyers handbook". It says; Thou shall bill by the hour.
El Duderino - I noticed that same thing...hahahaha
The court of justice is such a slow process and it doesn't have to be.
Look at the White House & Congress They are so slow in getting things done but when it affects them personally it's amazing how fast things get done.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/10/obama-signs-bill-gets-secret-service-protection-for-life/?iref=obinsite
The defense lawyers are provided by the State of Colorado. The citizens of Colorado are paying their salary, they are not paid by the hour.
The defense needed the delay because Holmes needs more time to get his crazy act down so he can fool the shrinks at the state hospital. They also needed time to find mental health professionals who are willing to sell their opinions and testify that Holmes was insane at the time of the shooting.
The reality is that he is not insane by any legal definition of the term. He spent monhs planning out this attack and ammassing the materials needed to carry it out. He took great care to spread his purchases around both in location and time so as not to raise any red flags with any of the people selling him the materials. This was a well thought out plan, not the action of someone who was insane and just went crazy in a movie theater. Holmes should never again see the light of day other than through the bars of a prison.
Gee, I hope Holmes doesn't fall down the stairs while handcuffed and break his neck on the way back to his cell!
Jo Ann, 4 years is fast? It gave Bush SS protection for life, too. It is a prudent bill, I am sure there a lot of people who would like to go "Jared Loughner" on both Bush and Obama, the protection makes sense. As much as I disagree with Bush's policies, he deserves that protection.
Why is this guy allowed yet another picture of his murdering face in the news?
No name, no photos, no recognition of who did the crime, and the need for attention fails. Quit putting his attention-seeking face on every article. Quit including his murderer name when covering a trial. Quit giving these mass murderer guys the attention they want. To them infamous ignominy is as good as being famous...the ultimate attention. Everybody will know their name now, by god, and that's what they're after. That is half their problem, imo, wanting the supreme attention.
Let them go to trial as anonymous. Let them always be a non entity to the general public. No public trial, no publicity that recognizes them, just a mediocre obscurity forever. Let the attention seeking deviants become absolutly invisible.
Whats the big deal about just shooting people like this ..they put mad dogs to sleep in my mind there is no difference ..just put him to sleep like the dog he is ..only use the same gun he used ..fairs fair !!
Once again if you ask for the "Facts" and not mere Rumors"...Out Pops the Corporate Trolls with their petty insult and psychobabble nonsense!
Why is the Corporate Media / Government so afraid of our knowing the truth? The Aurora CO "Lone Wolf" Shooting story is provable folks there are Surveillance Video's of the Outside of the Theater...Just show Holmes going to his car getting his "Body Armor On and taking his Guns back inside!
As was the Sikh Temple Surveillance Video Tapes where once again the "Witnesses claim there where Multiple assailants and with the Newtown School shooting tapes which by the way one of which that has been released shows two other Mysterious Persons running through the woods after the shooting.
But remember just like USA bin NOBODY if your release a "Fake Tape" there are those out here who will tear it to shreds! Hmm maybe that is the "Real Reason" why?
"We only want the facts Ma'am....Just the facts"~ Joe Friday!
Totally agree that due process is frustrating. Holmes is clearly nuts.
I think the victims have the right to confront the accused. I think it should be REQUIRED that the accused take the stand and look into the face his victims and survivors. He should be forced to explain WHY he decided to slaughter strangers in a theater. Even if he doesn't make any sense, his victims have a right to know what he was thinking.
Then he should be locked away and never see the sunshine again.
This judge, Chief Judge William Sylvester, should be disbarred and fired. What an idiot.
OBAMA The LaRaza Puppet banned, re-reg of OBAMA loves illegals.
I hope he is fairly tried and quietly executed. (Kaybee) There is no real 'reason' behind his actions to be found, but perhaps dissecting his defective brain might provide science some insight. After slicing it up for examination, they should dissolve it in sulfuric acid.
Hmm besides being found dazed or high "OUTSIDE" of the Theater what "Proof" has the Government actually provided that Holmes was the only perpetrator involved?
More than one of witnesses claim he was sitting in the Audience and opened the Fire Escape door after receiving a "Phone Call"? Suddenly all H@ll breaks loose with several witnesses claiming there where multiple attackers then magically there Holmes is outside waiting for the Police as claim as a Mental Patient on Thorazine and NOBODY else to be "found"?
His apartment? Hmm the "Police" released a Film of the Outside of his Apartment where they blew up a "Bomb" after claiming Holmes had "Soaked" the Carpet in Gasoline??? Nonsense or that "Blast" would set that place ablaze instantly so once again "Somebody" is lying.
If these Corporate owned Politicians want to use these "Atrocities" to Disarm America they need to be very up front and factual. Instead they are once again releasing just about the same amount of evidence as they did with USA bin NOBODY which is NOTHING AT ALL!
Trust us we are from the New Wall Street Controlled Plutocratic "Government"....Ya Right!
“Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.” – Patrick Henry
Just get a rope !
Put holmes in the worst prison we have... let him know how it feels to be helpless before someone stabs him.
Why does the average American citizen need tear gas grenades?
Why can the average American citizen buy these online like this murderer did?
Shouldn't these types of things be reserved for the police and the military alone?
People have a right to be pissed, our justice system doesn't work. This guy should be on death row right now.
.....and the NRA will still try to tell you that the answer to this sort of gun violence, is more guns.
What kind of "right," usurps someone else's God given, and inalienable right to LIFE, as described in the Declaration of Independence?
I'm sorry folks. There are just too many of these incidents happening year after year, and too many people are dying needlessly.
It's time for common sense gun control laws.
why cant i figure out this sentance:
what does "stalked out" mean....? I have never heard it used
is it a new word for stormed/walked out? wth, idk wdtst, wcuwts...oh, just making up some more words
You're right. I think the journalist meant "stormed" out.
Not much proofreading done in journalism these days.
Are you seriously saying you have never heard the term used? Well, just in case that's a serious question...
And no, it is not the same as "stormed" out. "Stormed" out would described someone who left a room with their body language all over the place... arms waving or churning aggressively beside them.
"Stalked" out would described someone whose body was held very stiffly as though they would shatter into pieces if someone touched them. Neck would be rigid, tendons standing out, jaw clenched, fists clenched, arms straight down beside their body.
Don't read very much do you?
Get a life - somewhere off the web. Pluto, maybe.
You go, Sally!
Whatever-815315
Not from where I'm sitting. He looks completely sane. He looks like he is enjoying the notoriety and doesn't exactly know how to respond to it. His expression is immature but he doesn't look like he is detached from reality or surroundings. He looks like this is all about him...his day in the sun. His demeanor in the photo and from the reports I've read regarding the crime scene, he sounds and looks like a sociopath (relatively uneducated opinion). No apparent remorse but the presence of mind to plan and execute a complicated crime, including previous recon of the theater prior to the crime.
To the best of my knowledge there is no effective treatment and no cure for Sociopathy. While I don't blame a rabid dog for having rabies, the dog needs to be removed from society permanently, in my humble opinion.
Obama The LaRaza puppet
His crime doesn't come close to having 13,000,000 illegals in the US stealing resources from America's poor
Yea Sally......
Pejorative. Be cool - not everyone has had the advantages you have.
Bob Freebird, what 4 years are you talking about? It passed the House & the Senate last month and Obama just signed it into law. Plus, I don't care if this included Bush or not.
No. we should poke a hole through his head with a large bore rifle, then throw him out in the desert to be eaten by coyotes.
A Dictionary? Or Google?
James Holmes will never be put to death because of his mental problems so just take a plea of life w/o the possibility of parole and save the sate the money and the anguish of the survivors.
As long as he is never a free man, it doesnt matter if he is sentanced to a prison or a sercure facility for the crminially insane.
He knew very well what he was doing, right up until the end, when a police officer realised he was the shooter, he didn't want to die so he just stood there and let the officer arrest him. He satisfied an urge he had to kill people, and now he's playing the crazy card. So far, its been way too easy for him. And he is lucky most people are able to control themselves, he's lucky that father only yelled at him, because he probably felt like breaking his neck (and I wouldn't blame him if he did).
People mentioned the Constitution, but if I understand correctly "insanity" would apply to a person who would be unable to understand what is going on, that he is in court and being judged, and/or would have been unaware of what he was doing when he killed someone, and as far as I know, if I judge by everything that man has done so far, he has known what he was doing the whole time, and still does. There is no question that he is insane in some way, psychopath, sociopath, or whatever else, but I don't think he is insane in the way that is meant in the Constitution, he knew what he was doing when he committed his crime, and he knew that it was wrong.
First heard the word when reading "Nancy Drew" and "The Hardy Boys" in grade school. That's how old I am.
First head the world "google" in the context of "google-eyed" when Joe Hardy told Frank Hardy to stop staring "google-eyed" at the pretty girl and Frank "stalked" away from Joe in a huff.
It was called a "Literature Class" back then. Public school education, rural area, nothing special, sixth grade. Education in this country has NOT improved in the last fifty years.
Personally I don't really care if he's legally insane (or whatever the term will be) or not. He did it, that's not the question. Insane or not, for the greater good, he needs to be removed from humanity. As far as I'm concerned the only difference would be is that if he is found to be insane, then a quick, humane death. Not insane, still a quick death but not so humane. I think a firing squad would be a very fitting end. Let him feel the pain and horror and helplessness of a bullet tearing through his body, like his victims. I'm not a sadistic monster but when I see his grinning face and remember what he did with such deliberate intention, I can't find any shred of remorse for this person.
What a showing of an EXCELLENT! Judge..........on behalf of The Court........on behalf of The Justice System.
Calling this man-- or any other mass murderer-- "mentally ill" is to demonize the 60 million people who suffer emotional problems and, in a vast majority of cases, are not dangerous. We need to be very careful about what we call people so that we don't lump innocent, troubled people into the same demonic category of this killer. Bear in mind that there are men and women who served in our military who are "mentally ill" because they have PTSD, depression, or other emotional issues after being wounded, physically or mentally, in the wars that they have fought for this country. Remember also that the survivors of this mass shooting are likely to be taking medications to help them through their trauma and may be diagnosed with depression, PTSD, or other "mental illnesses" now. To lump everyone into a broad and ill-defined label, "The Mentally Ill," can lead to unwarranted fear and mistreatment of people who are victims rather than perpetrators of violence.
Personally, I think that "psychopath" is a better word for these mass murderers. Yes, they are "crazy," but not in the disorganized, confused, and unable-to-function sense of the word (and I don't like that word in the first place). No, these psychopaths are cold, cunning, calculated monsters who know and love Evil and delight in frightening others by making scary faces at the camera and resorting to other spooky antics after they have killed many people. They are attention-seekers intoxicated by the psychological power that they wield over us by engaging in post-murder-spreee antics. This man is not "mentally ill" in any ordinary or meaningful sense of the word; he is a psychopath. There is a difference.
Toxic chemicals injected into an insane killer work just as well as on an evil killer.
The media should NOT publish the name or picture of this man. How many wannabees are out there, sitting in anonymity, wishing they could garner the attention they crave without extending very much effort? To their way of thinking, any attention brought to themselves is good attention; and maybe "I'll be the next mass murderer, only I'll kill twice as many innocent people. I'll be famous."
So we know he did the crime. Are trying to discover what the motivation was in order to help put some of the pieces together? If it can help to recognize another potential killer isn't that knowledge useful? The thing is he can't be changed nor saved. He probably is both evil and nuts. The thing is if your dog irrationally attacked a person and brutally chewed them up and killed that person, we would humanly destroy the dog. The dog can't really tell us why he went nuts. This guy may not be able to either, but frankly I think once he is given an opportunity to explain his motivation, if that is possible, he needs to be humanly destroyed. Keeping a person prisoner for life is not IMO good for society nor is it humane and frankly we are running out of prison space.
It is time for society to admit they cannot save everybody and we must think of doing what is right for the whole. So those making grievous errors need to be removed permanently. They are expendable. As it is now, a tiny few are holding us hostage.
I imagine scriminminmi is an expert at stalking out google-eyed.
LOL
there is no hell for his actions more than life in prison. A death sentence only ends his hell and that is not sufficient punishment. "Rot in prison" is a just sentence and we can afford that here in America. Sorry, this as bad as it gets make believers!
He should be dropped out of an airplane so he can have time to reflect on his demise and feel the fear and hoplessness he gave his victims.
Yet again, someone clearly guilty of their actions gets more protection and better treatment than the victims or the victims families.
He certainly is disturbed but insane? Did he know right from wrong? He certainly appeared to know that what he was doing was illegal or he wouldn't have booby trapped his apartment in anticipation of the authorities showing up. I thought the law was changed to guilty but insane, not innocent by reason of insanity. Guilty but insane means you are insane and are committed. If and when you are judged sane after treatment, you are sentenced for your crime. Is he evil? He certainly committed an evil act but did his mental illness cause that? Only the professionals can determine that. One thing for sure: he will never be free to commit such a horrendous crime again.
Unfortunately not true - if declared insane, then he goes to an institution for as long as he's deemed a danger to himself and/or others. But there is the potential for an early release if he is suddenly and miraculously 'cured'. And what will they do - probably put him on the same series of psychiatric drugs that probably contributed to this and other tragedies of this nature. Gov. Christie of New Jersey has finally picked up on this common thread, why hasn't anyone else? Remember the day when you went out and played cowboys and indians and "shot" every other kid in the neighborhood at one time or another? All those toy guns, all the western shoot-em-up movies and all did not seem to have generated a generation of mass murderers, so what changed: apparently something in society and especially in the treatment of what are seen as "problem children" --- Johnny get restless in the classroom? Aha! ADD or ADHD or some other alphabet soup diagnosis and the cure? Fill him up with mind altering, mood altering drugs without really having studied much less understanding the long term effects. Just because a well known drug company comes out with something and the FDA or similar government agency declares it safe doesn't make it so ... anyone remember Thalidomide?
2kmaro - I've been posting that all along. Every single one of these mass shooters has been on a bunch of psychotropic meds, or coming off of them. No one talks about it because either A) they're on something themselves and they're okay or B) the pharmaceutical companies have the media and politicians by the short hairs.
2kmaro---you are right on but I think I can explain the difference between "then and now". When we played cowboys and indians with our toy guns the population was also much smaller than it is today. The larger the population the more likely stupid and insane tragedies will occur. With the over-abundance of goods it's easy to find what you need to do good deeds or bad. It is an over-populated over-commercialized and over-stimulated world we live in today. And when it comes to families, structure has disappeared. Life is a free-for-all with many kids and teenagers today.
Used to be a time when your parents would smack you upside your head and tell you to pay attention. Parents aren't aloud to do that anymore because so many consider it abusive but it's okay to turn them into drug addicts instead. Poor little Timmy, I can't yell at him or discipline him in any way so instead let's give him this pill and if that doesn't work we have this pill and this pill and this pill......... I blame a lot of this on daycare because they don't want to take care of your kids they want to oversee zombies. One of the daycares my stepson was in 80% of the kids were on some sort of medication. After a couple weeks they suggested that my kid probably needs medication too. They wanted a calm little herd. They wanted everyone to act the same. No need for kids to learn to deal with different types of personalities at that age, right?
I didn't pay attention, my mind wandered and I couldn't stay focused on anything for more than five minutes when I was in school back in the 70's and early 80's and somehow, without the use of drugs, I became a fully functioning member of society. That's because my parents prepared me for adult life. They didn't coddle me and tell me I was special or shield me from the bad things in life. I was taught that there were winners and losers and not everyone got an at bat. I was taught to be self sufficient so I didn't need to run crying to them with every single little issue in my life.
The problem we have in this country is, nobody wants to admit that the new age parenting plan is not working. It is making matters worse. The breakup of families and all the single parents that don't have the time or energy they need to make sure their kids grow up to be functioning members of society. Instead it's "here's the remote control and a bowl of snacks" I'm going to lay down for a while. Kids have no respect for adults anymore including their parents. Kids don't know what to do after the age of 18 because parents have taken care of everything instead of teaching them how to do it themselves. Then when things don't go their way kids snap because everything in their lives has always been taken care of by someone else.
But hey, these tragedy's occur because of guns and video games. It has nothing to do with the downfall of the family.
Hmm sounds like once again the Strange and Mysterious "Sweeping it all under the table with a Plea" without our EVER knowing the truth about what the witnesses claim was "Multiple Assailants!
Search for Reality Check....Full Disclosure: CO, WI, CT shootings.. Are These The Work of "Lone Wolf" Gun...Or go to www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZPS7AdgNgE
Since the Corporate Corrupted Politicians are now using these kinds of "Minor Atrocities" to rob US of our Right To Bear Arms and to attempt Disarm America for their Wall Street Masters....
There needs to be a Full Disclosure of ALL OF THE FACTS in these cases before ANY further action is taken against OUR Second Amendment by Wall Street using these "Minor"Atrocities as their "Excuse"! Thousand of Americans have died since these strange "Attacks" by Defective Corporate Products and yet nothing is EVER said about that inconvenient truth!
Remember we are talking about acknowledged Corporate Owned & Corrupted Politicians here so how can any honest American trust them when they refuse to provide any evidence other a few "Police" Statements & Rumors and nothing else.
This is starting to sound like another USAma bin NOBODY did it story!
"The Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms." – Samuel Adams
Obamazombies! Now we know where the kool-aid is coming from! In convenient pill or capsule form mandated by the people "trusted" to care for our children.
Make sure everybody gets their daily dose or the next generation might vote for a republican (Oh the horror!!!).
I long for the days where a family could have a single breadwinner and get by without government assistance. Then at least one parent could be home to raise the children. And yes, we were allowed to discipline our children to teach them that there are consequences for their actions.
They've gotta keep us poor or they won't be able to control us! Oh and nobody can have a gun unless, they can afford all of the new fee's, pass the worthyness screening (or know the secret handshake (wink, wink), or better yet, hire armed bodyguards like the new class of American Royalty.
CatTrax13
Unfortunately I am not so sure about that, look at William Spengler (the guy who killed the firefighters), he murdered his grandmother with a hammer, but they assumed he was not dangerous anymore, decided to let him out of prison, and he was able to commit more crimes. Look at Ted Bundy also, he was caught, put in prison, but was able to escape, and commit more crimes.
I sympathize with the victims and their families.however,showing up in court and yelling at Mr.Holmes accomplishes nothing.These families could better well spend their time advocating for mental health care and hospitals so that their loved one will not have died in vain.Being disruptive in court does not effect Mr.Holmes as he is on anti psychotic drugs which basically has a sedating effect.They are showing their ignorance and lack of compassion for those who have no control over being mentally ill.
Oh Damn!!! You made it so clear!!! It was President Obama and V.P. Biden that set this guy up with weapons, Kevlar, some drugs and a movie ticket. Hell, he was probably a Manchurian Candidate that sat dormant for the past 14 years and was programmed by Clinton himself.
I bet if you look hard enough, you will see our president and vp running through the trees in Sandy Hook as well, maybe even Clinton in the getaway car.
All that elaborate planning and kills so they can FINALLY "strip us of our "rights" and take our weapons.
You morons simply amaze me.
By all means let's stretch this out as long as possible and make sure he has a fair trial since what he did was so fair to all the people in Aurora.
stretch it out,long trial,found guilty,sentenced to death,half dozen appeals,maybe a retrial,more appeals,this ahole is going to be around a long time.
And...........do you think the lawyers make more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ the longer they stretch this out.............Negate all lawyers maybe?
This is a great example of what's wrong with our justice system.
A person could confess they are going to commit a crime on video, go commit the crime and record it also and then record themselves afterward explaining all the details and they to would go through this entire process. "How do you plea?" "I'm not ready for that yet". "Okay we will give you more time." Our justice system once again showing beyond the shadow of a doubt that the criminal is treated better than the victim.
The bullet left the gun and struck the victim in an instant. It didn't slow down or drag things out. It did its damage immediately. He was caught outside the theater red handed. His apartment was booby trapped. If you are coo coo you couldn't put together a plan as good as he did. He bought his ticket for the movie 12 days in advance so he didn't snap he planned. If you can plan something this well, you are sane.
My suggestion is this, SHUT OFF THE CAMERAS, THE MICROPHONES, THE KEYBOARDS.....stop milking this for the ad revenue and ratings. The media is more pathetic than Holmes. It's a story on a slow news day. Nobody wants to report good news anymore because that doesn't get ratings.
Okay, I'm done ranting.
Hey, Browns Backer, you clicked on the story, thus giving money to nbcnews. Why wouldn't they publish this story? First it is their right afforded under the Constitution, and second, every time someone clicks on it, they get money.
Hmmm Meet2x4again I do know those Aurora CO Theater Video Surveillance Tapes are relevant and since everything goes "Off Site" now days and instantly backed up they cannot even claim they have Mysteriously "Disappeared"!
Same as with the Sikh Temple Shooting and with the Newtown School shooting so what is the Corporate Corrupted Government & Wall Street Controlled Media attempting to hide this time by refusing to release the video?
If America just ignores these Corporate Media Trolls and Demands Answers instead of taking the Plutocratic Governments word once again in Blind Faith at some point they either have to come clean, admit they staged the event, or ignore US at their Masters Peril!
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas." - Joseph Stalin
Meet2x4again,You are free to leave the United States of America if you are unhappy with our justice system.I expect him to be treated fairly as I would want to be treated that way.
Why is this lowlife scumbag still breathing???
Because he committed his crime in Colorado, not Iran, North Korea, or China.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that both me and the Founding Father's are quite happy he's alive to face justice.
Vigilantism isn't justice. In the end, justice will be served and you'll never hear about this POS again.
Unfortunately there is no such thing as "Justice". We try and get as close as we can get to it but in the end we will always come up short simply because it would be impossible to bring the victims back to life and send him to the grave in their place. You're right though, vigilantism isn't justice but in this case I would feel like it was justified. Can't help but feel that way, but everyone knows you can't have vigilantism and due process and in the long run our democracy is much better served by due process. It would be nice if it was possible to have both, but that's as impossible as being wet and dry at the same time. These boards do serve some small measure of theraputic purpose for the rest of us though. It doesn't hurt to come on here and get it off your chest and just say how you feel at the moment when a tragedy like this occurs. How I'm feeling right now is that I would enjoy watching them turn his sorry ass loose in a room full of the victims' families and worry about due process later. As a human, as a father, as a husband, and a son I just can't help but feel that way about someone who destroyed so many lives and so many American families. I may be a sorry example of a Christian but I could never be an atheist because that would mean I would have to give up the hope of this bastard rotting in hell for all of eternity.
CNorton,You aren't a bad example of a Christian because you are not a Christian.My Baptist Pastor neighbor has discussed Mr Holmes with me and he is educated to know the difference between a mentally ill person and one who murders just because they can.
And I can see the meter running $$$$$$$. Taxpayers hang on, this will cost big by the time it's over. Sad but true.
YUP..............Lawyers on the taxpayers dime$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
He should have 2 minutes to decide. Plenty more time than victims had.
They keep putting it off, and off, and off- the dramatic stage has been set and the media crawls like flies all over every morsel of detail that comes forth.
Save some time- instead of him being given 2 months to decide how he wants to plead, why not decide for him. Then get the rope ready at the nearest hanging tree & get 'er done
Who cares if he's sane or not? He is a mass murderer that's as guilty as the day is long. Serve justice at the business end of a long rope. Kill him now and let the healing process begin. The world will be a far better place without him and his kind.
Yeah, I have compassion for the mentally ill. Taken some meds myself. But at some point you gotta vote: life for the rest of us, or sympathy for a whack job's need to flip out and kill a bunch of people. I vote "us" <flush>.
How fed up is everyone on your Judicial System? Who is paying for all this? Who is getting rich from all the delays? You all know the answers and there seems to be nothing anyone can do about it. Demand change or it will never change.
Been fed up for years.
Criminals get the spot light more than good, honest, citizens. They get thrown into a broken due process system where lawyers and attorneys fight for the lime light to become famous and rich.
Far as I'm concerned, it's better to be a criminal than a hard working American in this country.
Heck, chances are high you will never get the death penalty and you will have free room, food, electricity, running water, TV, Internet, a College education, a work out facility, and even faculty that will wade on you hand and feet.
F***ed up? You bet it is.
Let's cut the BS. We all know his lawyers are going with the insanity defense, otherwise, what do they have? The guy's obviously not stupid, given the planning and booby-traps. But come on, he's equally, obviously crazier than a $#it house rat AND evil. The two don't have to be mutually exclusive. Prosecution should have to prove they have positively ID'ed the right person, but other than that, who gives a crap what his excuse was. You do stuff like Aurora, and you just aren't compatible with the survival of the rest of us. Good night.
Alan.................LAWYERS................Need anymore answers as they drive up with their chauffeurs or their BMWs to the courtroom????? WHO is paying for it................US!
Some reality here please. First of all, this dirt ball will get a public defender and I actually know a couple PDs in my jurisdiction and believe me, no one gets rich working as a PD. Where lawyers get rich is butt simple - rich clients. Typically this is in civil court (not criminal) and often involves corporate clients "defending" themselves against the likes of you and me. If a court determines a client to be of means, he is DENIED a public defender. Such clients are then FORCED to hire their own defense attorney and that is NOT paid by "US".
WRT how "F-ed up" the system appears in this particular case, just remember that ONE SYSTEM OF JUSTICE, what ever that is, must handle EVERYTHING from this case to a case where YOU are on trial because a corrupt COP planted some evidence or a lazy DA needs a quick conviction.
In the era of super high-resolution digital photography, why do we still have artists sketching the defendant in court? Just sayin'
Court House Sketch Artist Union....
You can also apply that to... In an era of OSHA and all the other government laws, why are there still unions?
While Back East's answer is amusing, the real answer is that the judge likely banned cameras inside the courtroom. I can see why he would - if you're going to let one in, you let 100 in - and it would already make more of a circus of this thing.
I believe it's a distraction sort of deal... the raising and lowering of the camera... so you know when to "pose" so to speak... compared to a sketch pad held low on the lap while sketching away... it's not an opertunity for the perp to .. show their best side... as they say (cheese).
there should not be a Plea deal for this monster, PERIOD
Of course, his defense attorneys need more time for the public to forget about this nutcase and hope nobody remembers the terrible massacre he perpetrated. They will plead not guilty by reason of insanity in March. I hope the judge does not accept ANY not guilty plea from this murderer! He knew what he was doing.
He should have been convicted already. Whatever happened to a fair and speedy trial?
Anyone watch Law Abiding Citizen?
The judge is making sure it will be fair, but speedy is relative. With a year is reasonable. What they really to do is reform the appeals process, or perhaps create a special appeals court or group of judges that can sort it all out in a year to two at the most.
And once again the victims' families, friends, and taxpayers are punished rather than the criminal. It is all about more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ for the defense lawyers. Even if the defense lawyers are court-appointed, they are still making money. Sane or insane. . .the travesty was done. Mental illness should not be a free ticket for evil deeds.
Wrong attitude Art...this perp is not going anywhere and will never see the light of day except thorugh a prison window. I doubt if he will be in solitary confinement, and will probably become some bubba's little bitch at some point. Since he killed a kid along with all the others, he will probably get jail house justice at some point.
due process is one thing but abusing the system in order to get this monster into a psych hospital is another. he should have been forced to plead after his arraignment if he refused to plead then enter a not guilty plea and start the trial. upon conviction he gets one appeal to the supreme court. if that appeal is denied he should be hanged in the public square the next morning. we have become a nation of pc pussies.
But subhuman monsters have rights too you know! Never mind that his victims had no rights. This disgusting freakish monster has to have his 4-5 years of appeals while living as a celebrity and being interviewed constantly.
That's right, Henry, advocate riding rough-shot over our constitutional rights, like habeas corpus, by forcing individuals to enter a plea solely because it suits your desire for quick vengeance. Which is what the British did during the Revolutionary War and why the framers of the Constitution provided such protections for individuals from the state, especially in criminal matters.
It is a violation of the rights of the legitimately mentally ill to have monsters like this one housed among them.
The crazy leering and dyed hair were/are probably a combination of display of contempt to his victims and to a society that allows him so many "rights" and also insurance that he will be seen as insane by the legal system.
So much for due process. It should be renamed to due process in DUE TIME.
Even if this guy gets the death penalty he'll probably live another 30-40 years while appealing it. We might finally get to see him fry as an old man who's lived a life of celebrity on death row. Isn't the American Justice System great? Hang him, burn him, electrify him within a year and MAYBE the criminals in this country would think twice more often.
Rizter,He is mentally ill and will not face the death penalty and it's doubtful if he is incarcerated in prison.He should be remanded to a mental health facility the sane as Mark Chapman.
Mental illness is NOT understood or treated in this country. Families all over this nation cry for help EVERYDAY to no avail! Some people CAN be treated with medication, some CANNOT BE FIXED. For those who cannot be fixed or are in 'psychotic breaks' there should be LONG TERM treatment facilities, ie, ASSYLUMS! The politicians who had all of these facilities shut down should be HORSEWHIPPED and put on trial for negligent homicide. Search the following: Ronald Taylor, Richard Baumhammers, John Poplawski, George Sodini, John Shick; What do all of these individuals have in common? SERIOUS MENTAL ILLNESS that family members and coworkers were unable to find assistance with. Most of the homeless people that you see should be in facilities where professionals can care for them with dignity, instead of allowing them to starve and die in the streets. We have lost our common sense in this country. MENTAL ILLNESS is every bit as real as cancer, diabetes, heart disease, MS. We must demand that something be done to HELP these people, their families, and to PROTECT our communities. Those of you who propose gun control should be in the assylums too, you have no clue.
Sam Hill
The politicians who had all of these facilities shut down should be HORSEWHIPPED and put on trial for negligent homicide.
The closing of mental health hospitals in California and across the United States. Is it any wonder that California seems to have all of the crazy homeless people? State mental hospitals were taken away by Governor Reagan in the seventies, and federal mental health programs were later taken away by President Reagan in the eighties.
When Ronald Reagan was governor of California he systematically began closing down mental hospitals, later as president he would cut aid for federally-funded community mental health programs. It is not a coincidence that the homeless populations in the state of California grew in the seventies and eighties. The people were put out on the street when mental hospitals started to close all over the state.
Seeing an increase in crime, and brutal murders by Herb Mullin, a mental hospital patient, the state legislature passed a law that would stop Reagan from closing even more state-funded mental health hospitals. But Reagan would not be outdone. In 1980, congress proposed new legislation (PL 96-398) called the community mental health systems act (crafted by Ted Kennedy), but the program was killed by newly-elected President Ronald Reagan. This action ended the federal community mental health centers (see timeline on this link) program and its funding.
Exhume Reagan and horsewhip him!
Shh... Thou shalt not speak ill of Saint Reagan!
I was a kid at the time, but I remember this crap Reagan pulled. Standby for the excuses on why this "has nothing to do" with dumping out mental institutions, and some junk about "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" making everyone all soft on the insane. Add this with a sea of guns available, and voila! Damn, that's a French word too, and we all know how soft they are, with their frickin' 1/4th murder rate of ours!
SAmHill,Educated and intelligent post.Thank you for that.I was starting to wonder if anybody else on this forum knew anything about mental illness besides me a handful of others.Some of the younger posters should be made aware that schizophrenia is not usually diagnosed until a person is in their 20's.
How is it this jerk gets a bat man t-shirt to wear to court? This is a joke to him I guess, put him under the jail and leave him there never to be heard from or spoken of again.
No the joke is on YOU, if you believe any of these psyops are real. Look at the picture on this article. Do they really look like they are using those crutches and that cane? They are ACTORS.
Yes, Ella, because you are personally knowledgeable about (1) the type and place of their wounds and (2) how long it would take for them to recover fully, if ever from such wounds.
Ella is what happens when people listen to Alex Jones.
Oh, he wasn't ready? How about the people he gunned down, I don't think they were ready but he didn't give them any choice. There's no question of guilt here, take him out back and shoot him.
I'd propose putting him into one of those 'traps' from the SAW movies. Let's see how he likes it when the joke is on him.
I know the media loves that picture but it creeps me out. Can we see something different?
Useless god-damn Judge.. Why the hell postpone it? Bet they wouldn't postpone my trial if I dressed up like batman and beat the crud out of this little b1tch.
We need protection from people like you.
Scared of a 5'2, 120lb, 17-year old, Rex?
It is amazing that so many want to protect the 2nd. amendment, but in the same breath , want to throw out the 5th and 14th amendment and just kill this person without due rights to a fair trial and his rights guaranteed in the Constitution.
2nd. amendment
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
5th, amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
14th. amendment
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
We don't wanna take away his rights to a fair trial. We just want him to have a fair trial in a reasonable amount of time and then be executed in a reasonable amount of time. He's guilty. Anybody with even half of a working brain can see this. He doesn't deny it or even show the slightest remorse. Soulless inhuman monster incarnate.
Most people on this vine don't want to even give him a fair trial. They have already judged him guilty and want him dead today if possible.
He doesn't deny it or even show the slightest remorse. Soulless inhuman monster incarnate.
Why would a mentally disturbed person even show any remorse at all? In their mind, they have done good. They don't go from insane to sane in the blink of an eye.
@Ritzer - Oh good grief!
@Starbuck - excellent points!
Thank you, starbuck! There are few sane voices in these discussions, and yours is one of them. I bet most of these people don't know any other amendment than the 2nd. It's scary that we have such an uninformed electorate.
Thankfully our founding fathers had more brains in their little toenail than most of these people have in their heads.
"He's guilty." -Rizter
Actually, no. Ne is still innocent until he is proven guilty by his peers in a court of law. This is America, not Iran or North Korea.
@bob and Starbuck quite correct legally he is innocent until proven guilty by his peers in a court of law.
However, there is a thing call the public court, and in the public court he is deemed guilty as hell by the known evidence, and popular opinion.
In the court of law one must be proved guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt, in the public court one must be proven reasonably innocent.
Ellie, he wears a batman shirt to court most probably provided by his attorneys to make it look like he is insane. We need another Jack Ruby (for the younger crowd, Jack Ruby shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald who was arrested for assassinating JFK). I agree that everyone deserves due process but when someone is taken into custody in the midst of committing a massacre, I think it would serve justice and the victims best to execute the perpetrator right there.
You have GOT to be kidding!! If not, you should be!
If he had not meekly surrendered to the cops, we would not be having this trial.
Nobody ever called this person a terrorist! Is that because this word is now RESERVED to a particular group of people? Also nobody ever mentioned what his religion is. Is that because he is NOT from one particular religion? What about his ethnic group? Why is it that when a crime is committed by people of a particular religion and/or ethnic group these issues are so much a main part of the story??
My heart and deepest sympathy go to the families of the victims of all crimes.