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Tony Gutierrez / AP
Robert F. Kennedy Jr., left, said that he didn't believe a lone gunman killed President John F. Kennedy in an interview with journalist Charlie Rose, right, and Rory Kennedy, center, in front of an audience at the AT&T Performing Arts Center in Dallas Friday.
DALLAS -- Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is convinced that a lone gunman wasn't solely responsible for the assassination of his uncle, President John F. Kennedy, and said his father believed the Warren Commission report was a "shoddy piece of craftsmanship."
Kennedy and his sister, Rory, spoke about their family Friday night while being interviewed in front of an audience by Charlie Rose at the Winspear Opera House in Dallas. The event comes as a year of observances begins for the 50th anniversary of the president's death.
Their uncle was killed on Nov. 22, 1963, while riding in a motorcade through Dallas. Five years later, their father was assassinated in a Los Angeles hotel while celebrating his win in the California Democratic presidential primary.
Robert F. Kennedy Jr. said his father spent a year trying to come to grips with his brother's death, reading the work of Greek philosophers, Catholic scholars, Henry David Thoreau, poets and others "trying to figure out kind of the existential implications of why a just God would allow injustice to happen of the magnitude he was seeing."
He said his father thought the Warren Commission, which concluded Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in killing the president, was a "shoddy piece of craftsmanship." He said that he, too, questioned the report.
"The evidence at this point I think is very, very convincing that it was not a lone gunman," he said, but he didn't say what he believed may have happened.
Rose asked if he believed his father, the U.S. attorney general at the time of his brother's death, felt "some sense of guilt because he thought there might have been a link between his very aggressive efforts against organized crime."
Kennedy replied: "I think that's true. He talked about that. He publicly supported the Warren Commission report but privately he was dismissive of it."
Oswald's mafia links
He said his father had investigators do research into the assassination and found that phone records of Oswald and nightclub owner Jack Ruby, who killed Oswald two days after the president's assassination, "were like an inventory" of mafia leaders the government had been investigating.
Henry Burroughs / AP
John F. Kennedy was the youngest man ever to serve as U.S. president. Click on the gallery for photos detailing key moments in his campaign for the White House, his brief time in office, and his untimely death.
He said his father, later elected U.S. senator in New York, was "fairly convinced" that others were involved.
The attorney and well-known environmentalist also told the audience light-hearted stories Friday about memories of his uncle. As a young child with an interest in the environment, he said, he made an appointment with his uncle to speak with him in the Oval Office about pollution.
He'd even caught a salamander to present to the president, which unfortunately died before the meeting.
"He kept saying to me, 'It doesn't look well,'" he recalled.
Rory Kennedy, a documentary filmmaker whose recent film "Ethel" looks at the life of her mother, also focused on the happier memories. She said she and her siblings grew up in a culture where it was important to give back.
A father, who was on the sidewalk with his son in Dallas when President Kennedy was assassinated, describes to reporters what he witnessed, saying he'll "never forget it."
"In all of the tragedy and challenge, when you try to make sense of it and understand it, it's very difficult to fully make sense of it," she said. "But I do feel that in everything that I've experienced that has been difficult and that has been hard and that has been loss, that I've gained something in it."
"We were kind of lucky because we lost our members of our family when they were involved in a great endeavor," her brother added. "And that endeavor is to make this country live up to her ideals."
Related content:
Secret tapes of JFK's last days released
Audio tapes featuring Jackie Kennedy after JFK's death revealed
Watch an extended clip from NBC News' original broadcast from Nov. 22, 1963, informing the nation that President Kennedy had been shot in Dallas, Texas.
Leave a Comment:
I believe he has come to the same sad conclusion as many of the American people. We are not as stupid as some in the government would like to believe we are. With the amount of people who came forward, reporting shooting coming from the grassy knoll, people pointing to it in pictures, , the loose ends that just were too nicely wrapped up, it was obvious that the President was assassinated by more that one person.
One fall guy was created, to wrap things up nicely, stop any problems with messy investigations or inconvenient questions, making a nice clean transition of power for the White House. Then sold to the public, which our government has continued to try to convince those who have any doubts is the "truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help the Gov."
Since then, the seeds of doubt have continued to spread and Americans question ever more,what our government tells us. The belief we can trust, without question everything we are told, continues to crumble across America as wave after wave of denial in other areas, with discoveries of lies only further gives weight, that we must be on guard
Same as the Benghazi reports........SHODDY! Our government likes to think we are gullible...and many are!
I remember years ago they had dialogue on this subject, and they said the truth was sealed for 100-years from the time of President Kennedy's death. This way no living person would be overly shocked/mad/resentful of government, or its reason for sealing the record for that long of time because of what really happened, and by whom. Again its government thinking it knows whats best for people.
The assassination was a continuation of the Cuban Missle Crisis.
US planes were launched towards Cuba minutes after the assassination, but recalled in time.
********
It was not until 1995 that people learned of "The Spy That Saved The World" during the 1962 Cuban Missle Crisis - Oleg Penkovsky.
The volumous technical missle details this spy revealed allowed the US to determine the state of readiness, or rather unreadiness, of the missles being deployed in Cuba in 1962. Thus, Kennedy knew he had a window of time to take the path of diplomacy, and without this key information his decision making process would have been quite different.
But there was another critical window that the spy Penkovsky revealed. Khrushchev famously threatened that his factories were producing like "sausages" ICBM capable of reaching the US; Khrushchev could make it rain ICBM. The spy Penkovsky revealed that this was simply a bluff. Khrushchev might be able to launch ONE experimental ICBM towards the US but that was it. The window however, Penkovsky revealed, was only reliable for three years. Penkovsky believed that within as little as three years the Soviets could be producing ICBM in large numbers.
The Joint Chiefs Of Staff, as history records, contained men with the right stuff, right enough to inspire "Doctor Strangelove". They wanted to take out the Soviet Union while we could. Kennedy, however, did not want to go down in history as the greatest mass murderer of all time.
It was a game of Super Hardball Poker. The ICBM Window was closing down like a guillotine, Kennedy had his bellicose generals and Khrushchev had his own hardline generals to contend with. What move in this game could Kennedy make?
The US generals WANTED the Soviets to run the blockade of Cuba and "cross the line" to war and Khrushchev didn't know that his ICBM bluff cards were exposed.
Kennedy's move was that he could let Khrushchev know of his slim poker hand. Kennedy was also proving to the Soviet generals that here was a US President that wanted to deal, which would be useful later when seeking treaties. Did Kennedy also blunt the US general's urge for war by closing a key vulnerability in the Soviet defenses? Penkovsky had also revealed to us Soviet vulnerabilities.
Did Kennedy, in this game of Super Hardball Poker give up the spy, codenamed HERO, to the Soviets?
Oleg Penkovsky was arrested by the Soviets on the seventh day of the Cuban Missle Crisis.
One year later the assassination created a different stalemate.
Vice President Johnson was heading for a fall before the assassination, his criminal past was going to catch up with him. The Joint Chiefs Of Staff brought Johnson into the plot late in the game; but, he double-crossed them after the assassination and didn't give them the war against the Soviets (by first attacking Cuba) they had wanted.
As an insider Johnson had the goods on the Joint Chiefs of Staff and they in turn had the goods on him. Robert Kennedy had knowledge of Johnson's criminal past, but the Kennedys acting as tipsters to the Soviets in the Oleg Penkovsky affair was a sword over his head. Just as importantly Robert Kennedy would make an already dangerous world more dangerous if he made it public that the Joint Chiefs of Staff had tried to launch a war that day and were willing to assassinate presidents in order to carry that out.
Robert Kennedy supported the farce that was the Warren Commission to protect his brother's reputation and his own, but more importantly to deter war. Johnson was high in the saddle as President and thus supported the Commission, and he retired key members of The Joint Chiefs of Staff. With his reputation intact Robert Kennedy planned to later become President and supercede the Warren Commission with his own justice.
More important than who was involved in the JFK conspiracy, is that the FBI allowed it to happen in that case and the RFK and MLK cases as well.
The size of the crowds that King was able to gather was terrifying to the government, to Johnson. Who knows what (or if) they did (anything) about that.
The American people are gullible and stupid. Look at all the lies our present administration tells us and the same people keep being re-elected during each election season....very few turnover of career politicians.
I totally agree with you, Windancersong. I watched a documentary just recently of the assassination, and it absolutely appeared that the shots were coming from the area of the grassy knoll, not to mention the many people who had been there to watch the president's motorcade were not only pointing towards the grassy knoll, but, several people were running towards it.
I believe if the American people knew the truth about both the JFK and RFK assassinations, we'd be horrified, not to mention the assassination of Martin Luther King Jr, which happened just two short months prior to the RFK assassination.
I believe the main reason JFK was killed because he wasn't going into Viet Nam. There would be no Viet Nam war. The military-industrial complex wanted that war so the defense contractors could keep making millions and billions of dollars. During the Iraq war billions of dollars went missing. Where do you think it went? Into the offshore accounts of the defense contractors, the Generals, and the neo-con politicians. That is how they make the big bucks. Remember Poindexter and Olly North during Iran-Contra. They and others were guilty as hell of many crimes against our government, but some how they all received presidential pardons. We have two governments. One an elected president and congress and two a black (invisible to the public) group that really runs our country. The military-industrial, political-industrial, financial-industrial, and the news media-industrial complexes. The people who are involved in this shadow government will do anything to get their interests served, kill a president, try to fix our elections, start a war, bring down unfriendly foreign governments, anything to keep them in money and power. They are now talking about a war in the middle east that goes on forever. The middle east is good for them, it is close to their money, in their banks near our military bases in Qatar, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi, and Dubai!
Ike tried to warn us, we didn't listen, most decent people couldn't or wouldn't believe it anyway, that our government was as corrupt as the Russians, and JFK paid the price, and finally people started to question the powers that be. The Warren commission, who some members were actually part of the shadow government, faked their investigation, and the truth was hidden.
Now that most of the news is controlled by the big corporations, who are part of all this, it's very hard to find the truth, the truth is out their alright, but it's buried pretty deep.
Uh, J.P., the story of Colonel Penkovsky was told in media accounts in the late 1960's I know. I read them.
"The Penkovsky Papers" are listed with Doubleday as the publisher and a 1965 copyright date given in Wiki.
Damn evil conspirators and their time machines, anyway...
the government knew within days of the JFK assassination that a group was involved; they decided on a course of action, to get rid of everybody involved, over 130 deaths in 3 years; there was a dist. atty in new orleans, who started a investigation, his main witness died; however he did link Oswald, Ruby, two mafia leaders, CIA hired workers, and the strangest connection of all; Oswald, who went to Russia, (spoke read and wrote perfect Russian), married the niece of one of the top KGB agents, returned to the U.S., got his job within 3 days at NASA rocket factory in new Orleans, shared a office in new Orleans with Guy Bannister (retired FBI agent in charge of the Chicago office0, friend of Jack Rubinstein(Ruby); Oswald left New Orleans for Dallas , got a Job with the State of Texas(great background, Russian citizen, married to niece of top Kgb agent, Oswald arrested several times in new orleans, Cuban front man,less than Honorable discharge U.S. Marines), assigned to Texas book depository , 6 weeks before JFK trip to Dallas, killed by Jack Ruby; however the official report no link, lone assassin, information buried for 75 years, very strange situation. WHEN A GOVERNMENT DOES NOT TRUST THE PEOPLE TO TELL THE TRUTH, THE PEOPLE WILL LOSE FAITH IN THAT GOVERNMENT ;BENJAMIN FRANKLIN
There has only been one certified firearms examiner to ever take a serious, honest look at the evidence related to the JFK assassination. One. His name was Howard Donahue.
Not only did the powers that be ignore him, the House Select Committee on the JFK Assassination went out of its way to deny him the opportunity to prove what the evidence really showed.
I'm not going to begin to try to explain any of it, because all these far-out conspiracy theorists will go out of their way to attack, but the fact remains, no one has ever been able to poke holes in the ballistic evidence. No one.
I'll merely say that a great deal of effort has been unsuccessfully expended to discredit Mr. Donahue. Imagine that. Attempts to discredit the evidence. Who would have thunk it?
I too believe there were more involved and Lee Harvey was the fall guy. If you have not gone to Dallas to the Kennedy Museum, it's a MUST see. Very moving experience.
@SL Cabbie,
The "Spy Who Saved The World" was a book.
http://spyinggame.me/2011/02/26/the-spy-who-saved-the-world-by-jerold-schecter-1992/
"The authors base their startling and historic reappraisal of Oleg Penkovsky’s career on thousands of pages of government documents obtained under the Freedom of Information Act."
"It is an authentic account based on declassified official CIA files and interviews with some of the key players on both the American and British sides. It is the best book on the Penkovsky case."
Your time machine snark missed the mark, it is ambiguous.
@Sally in Chicago,
Indeed the Kennedy Museum at Dealey Plaza is deeply moving.
Donahue couldn't have looked at the bullet that tore off the left side of JFK's skull with parts of his skull and brian landing on the trunk of the car that his wife tried to retrieve. That is ample evidence to indicate the bullet came from JFK's right front, not from behind, and perhaps from the nifty hiding spot in the storm sewer.
I might add that the death of RFK was not as reported either. They knew they had to kill RFK or the truth about JFK would be exposed. Nixon had no chance of beating the very popular RFK for the presidency so they had to kill him to keep him from exposing those involved. The sixties will go down in history as a black mark on this country with all the assassinations that happened in those times. Funny how at the time we talked about how bad Russia was for killing political leaders and this country was doing the same.
@ Ron
There was talk that the front shooter was hidden in the trees on the grassy knoll disguised as a police officer. Whether true or not we may never know but I remember those reports hitting the news then.
People -- read Cased Closed by Gerald Posner. It gives scientific FACTS. As much as we don't want to believe some nobody like Lee Harvey Oswald single handedly murdered the President of the US, that's is exactly what happened. And remember -- just because you don't WANT to believe something is true doesn't mean it's NOT true.
Ron, obviously you've never been in Daley Plaza.
The storm drain that you mention is much to low, relative to the height of the President's limousine, to have played a role in the assassination. At the point where the head shot occurs, the angle from the storm drain would put any shot fired from it, at least 5' above the car.
Secondly, it is a very small, cramped space. The person occupying that nest could be no more than 5' 3", and 115lbs.
I have to laugh at some of the conspiracy theories being posted here. Some of the theories are halfway plausible while others are just outright absurd fiction. Some have so many people involved that there is no way that it could have remained secret. The odds on any conspiracy remaining secret is inversely proportional to the number of people involved and with more than two or three people in the mix keeping it secret this long would be virtually impossible. Someone would have talked to someone else, probably some death bed confession, and it would have gotten out. Those who are throwing out specific names should be very careful as even if that person is now dead, their surviving relatives could come after you for libel (yes you can libel a dead person by tarnishing their memory).
Do I think that there were more people involved than just Oswald, yes. Do I think it was some massive conspiracy with all these convoluted motives, no. Do I think that Ruby was manipulated into taking out Oswald to keep him from possibly talking, yes - but that does not mean that I necessarily think Ruby was involved with any assassination plot from the start. I do not think Ruby knew anything about the plan to shoot Kennedy, I simply think he was used to "clean up" after the fact by taking out Oswald. But then again, these are just my feeling and like others, I have nothing but gut feeling to support it. Some of the theories posted here read like the people are stating undeniable facts and I challenge any of those posting their theories to provide anything even remotely approaching evidence to support their wild conjectures.
I always wondered about the conspiracy theories of the JFK assassination, but after reading much about it through the years and watching the remastered film footage of his assassination, I personally think it was done by Lee Harvey Oswald alone. But, of course, we will probably never know.
This link is the clearest footage you will ever see of the assassination. Warning, it is quite graphic. It is incredible that JFK's wife, Jackie Kennedy, was not killed either. She was looking right into her husband's face when he was shot in the head, and yet she in spite of these horrific events, she was able to maintain composure and dignity in the days of mourning that followed as the whole world watched.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=If3ND6P7jD0
Just as a side note, Clint Hill, the Secret Service Agent who jumped on the back of the Presidential limo, says he believes it was a lone gunman and has given rational reasons why he thinks this as well.
No single gunman....a pretty self-evident and obvious conclusion.
Charlie:
Have you ever written anything that could be easily understood by a sentient being?
The number and location of the people shooting at Kennedy is almost irrelevant. The question is why, why was he killed. And there, it's all just speculation, including mine. My belief is that Castro had Kennedy killed and that organized crime in the US helped in some way.
Oswald was in and out of Cuba, through Mexico, on many occasions. He was a Castro sympathizer. It would have been easy to set up Oswald as a shooter, with or without his knowledge of additional shooters in the area. The Kennedy brothers had been trying to kill Castro, in many different ways, for three years. Castro was certainly aware of this.
It's all a long, long story but I will point out one very interesting point. When Castro took over Cuba, the East Coast American mob had been literally running Cuba, especially Havana, with Batista as little more than a figurehead bag man in the operation. They had invested millions in their drug, gambling and prostitution businesses in Havana.
The American gangsters fully believed that Castro would be little different from Batista and would likely play along with the status quo. They couldn't be sure however and most took off to return to the US to wait and see what would happen to their Cuban crime empire. They left behind one of their trusted Cuban lieutenants Santo Trafficante. They thought he, as a a Cuban, would be able to negotiate with Castro and bring the mob back into Havana. They were wrong. Castro immediately threw Trafficante into prison. The American mob worked hard to get Trafficante out of prison and sent a mob foot soldier to the Cuban prison to assure him that they were working towards his release. The name of the man they sent? Jack Ruby.
I, like the rest of the posters on this thread have nothing but theories and speculation as to what really happened in 1963 but I was alive then and saw, live on TV that morning, Jack Ruby kill Lee Harvey Oswald. You will never convince me that Oswald "acted alone" in this matter. Somebody helped him, somebody encouraged him and somebody made sure that Oswald never lived to tell his story.
JFK was the last nationalistic President that tried to preserve American sovereignty and he got killed. Ever since, every president has been selling the US out to the "World Government", while posing as a nationalist.
In order to have ever believed in the warren report, you had to have a great deal of suspension of disbelief. In my world bullets don't travel in the direction of a Z, and the impact of a bullet hitting a deer never blows the deer towards the gun that shot it, so why would a man's head be blown backwards if he was shot from behind?
The warren report also discredited eye-witness testimony that said shots rang out from the grassy knoll, and that they saw a man with a gun standing behind the fence on the knoll.
My thinking has always tried to follow the facts of occurrences leading up to JFK being shot. Here are facts, facts, and more facts.
Jo Kennedy made his fortune importing illegal whisky from Canada and he sold it to the mob in Chicago.
The mob controlled the labor unions in Chicago and in NY and other places.
When JFK ran for president, it was the mob that helped deliver the labor votes that got him elected.
Once elected, JFK hired his brother Bobby to be the AG of the USA.
Bobby started a campaign to go after organized crime in Chicago and in NY.
JFK got shot.
The blame for JFK's assassassination was quickly pinned on Oswald by the Dallas police, not the secret service.
Jack Ruby was allowed access to the Dallas police building at a time when Oswald was being transported (how did Ruby know Oswald was about to be transported?).
Jack Ruby silenced Oswald by shooting him at point blank range in front of the Police in the police building.
Oswald died from wounds soon after.
Jack Ruby had terminal cancer when he shot Oswald.
Cancer silenced Jack Ruby soon after he shot Oswald.
These are all facts.
Now a couple more facts to consider.
JFK had agreed to only sending military advisers to SE Asia and was steadfastly against getting involved in a land war in Asia for obvious reasons.
JFK's resistance to go to war in SE Asia was bad news to the military industrial complex that stood to make billions of dollars in profit if we would only go to war in Asia.
One must then consider that there were two very powerful organizations that would benefit or bury a grudge if JFK was assassinated, the mob, and the military industrial complex (possibly including the US military and the CIA), not to mention soon to be president Johnson who would benefit by being promoted from VP to P.
It has always looked to me like an inside job of a mob hit, a quick rush to place blame, a second mob hit to silence the accused, followed by a third hit to get even with Bobby.
It is difficult to accept any other explanation as to how a man with a gun could get so close to Oswald in the police department without the police letting him do so, and I have aways wondered how Jack Ruby knew when Oswald was to be transported. And again, since bullets don't travel in the direction of a Z as stated in the Warren report, and since too many eye witnesses claimed to have seen and heard a second or even a third shooter, and since JFK's head snapped back towards the book depository as his brains also blew back towards the book depository, which is in the direction of where the bullet came from (according to the Warren report), this means the head jerked back against the direction of the force represented by the kinetic energy of the bullet that struck JFK which is a mockery of physics as well as all observations of how these things happen as learned while hunting deer with high powered rifles.
You just have to have too much suspension of disbelief to believe the Warren report to accept its findings as anything other than a cover-up of an inside job that killed a president and in the process killed over 50,000 American soldiers and a million or more Vietnamese.
I have long chalked the Warren report up to one big well marketed but poorly constructed government lie which only proves to me that we really do need a second amendment to protect the Constitution from powerful people in government.
One last point.
The warren report is not the latest nor the biggest lie ever told. Johnson followed up on the assassination of JFK with the Tonken Bay resolution which was passed by congress after the president gave testimony (falsely) that an AAmerican war ship was under concentrated hostile fire from some unknown gunboat that fired torpedoes at the American warship. The fact of the matter was the "torpedoes" were waves and the new sonar equipment and combined with a poorly trained crew misread the data captured until the end of the transmission that was reporting the "attack" in real time to the Pentagon. One big giveaway was there were simply too many "torpedoes" fired at the American ship.
The evidence of the false nature of the Tonken Bay report was the subject matter of what became known soon after as the Pentagon papers. Daniel Elsberg, a consultant for Rand Corporation (a think tank of that time) stole a copy of the report and gave it to his pal Anthony Rusoe who then turned it over to the Washington Post. President Johnson had Dan Elsberg arrested without any due procdess, had him questioned, had him beaten and otherwise abused trying to regain control of the copy of the report that proved the Tonken Bay incident as reported to congress by president Johnson was one big fat lie. Never mind Daniel elsberg's civil rights (why we need a 2nd Amendment), never mind due process (why we need a 2nd Amendment), and never mind the freedom of the press. President Johnson even tried to silence the Washington Post. That was when the media and reporters did their job, not like now where the press is basically a conglomerate owned extension of the plutocracy that is calling the shots. Back then, the Washington Post was really a voice for freedom. Too bad the Post has also been a casualty of the creeping powers of the plutocracy which is just one more reason why we need a 2nd Amendment.
The Washington Post dug into the story and exposed the entire false nature of what the Pentagon papers represented which was the "convenient" but false reason that the US went to war in Viet Nam after JFK was "conveniently" assassinated that "conveniently" removed the obstacle for the brass in the Pentagon being able to go to war.
55,000 soldiers died as a result along with over a million Vietnamese, all so we could make Vietnam safe enough so we could stop playing dominoes and start importing textile products from them so we could bankrupt great companies like pilowtex and lay off thousands of US workers.
To this day, veterans fo the Vietnam conflict are still suffering greatly from exposure to agent orange that was used to defoliate the jungles of Vietnam. We also dropped more tonnage of bombs in Vietnam than in all of WWII.
So in conclusion, when you step back and look at what transpired before and after JFK's assassination, and you consider the unsavory characters involved, and the fortunes to be made, and the grudges to be settled, and you see how JFK and his brother Bobby were both killed, and you consider how convenient it was for the Dallas police to quickly finger Oswald and then have Ruby silence Oswald and have cancer silence Ruby, the Warren report just does not ring true, does it? It never did.
We need a second Amendment, because government does stuff like this. We went into Vietnam on a known lie that was known to be a lie when Johnson presented the false report to Congress to get approval to begin military operations in Vietnam. Sound familiar? It should. We went into Iraq based on a lie as well and told the lie to the UN to gain support to go into Iraq and begin military operations in Iraq.
We need a second amendment because government does stuff like this.
There is a very compelling video that a young author and researcher presents on YouTube.
Here is the address: http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=8JEmhMkKuIA&feature=endscreen
Let me know what you think.
Let it go. He is long dead. He and his death no longer matter. It is just an historical footnote.
Of course there were multiple shooters, and Obama, Reid and Pelosi are not trying to lay the ground work for turning our nation into a socialist govt. How do I know? I read it on the internet.
For those of us who remember Jack Kennedy as President, he is more than a footnote in history.
He was an inspiring man who, though he had human faults, also loved his country and cared about making it a better place for all Americans.
JP:
You wrote: "It was not until 1995 that people learned of "The Spy That Saved The World" during the 1962 Cuban Missle Crisis - Oleg Penkovsky."
SL Cabbie replied: "Uh, J.P., the story of Colonel Penkovsky was told in media accounts in the late 1960's I know. I read them. "The Penkovsky Papers" are listed with Doubleday as the publisher and a 1965 copyright date given in Wiki. Damn evil conspirators and their time machines, anyway..."
Clearly JP, there isn't anything "snarky" or "ambiguous" about Cabbie's remarks. The problem lies with you, i.e.; you have very thin skin. If you can't take a little good natured ribbing, and an accurate correction of an obvious error, with grace and style, then perhaps you should confine your writing efforts to the Children's Section of MSNBC.
Good luck.
One evidence of our government telling the the truth on anything is their national approval rate, which is now at an all time low! Don't pour any more money into a new commission report! Most Americans now can come up with their own conclusion, which is far from the Warren Report!
Glenn, yours is one of the more interesting, and well thought out posts I've seen on the subject of the Kennedy assassination. While I'm skeptical of the implied role you ascribe to the Military Industrial Complex (too many people to keep such a secret, too little hard evidence), I do strongly agree with the role you ascribe to the Mafia, and their motive.
Frank "The Irishman" Sheeran, a known mob associate, and admitted hit man, speaks openly in his biography, "I Heard You Paint Houses", of having a minor role in unknowingly transporting the rifles [plural] to be used in the killing. He also relates that the mob frequently used expendable agents to carry out high-profile hits, the assassin to be later disposed of as a loose end. Related to that, he also explained that Jack Ruby's original role was to arrange the killing of Oswald, but when Oswald was arrested alive, he had no choice except to carry out the hit himself.
Oswald certainly fits the bill of an expendable assassin. Jack Ruby was certainly a close mob associate and close to Sam Giancana.
So the circumstantial evidence is very strong, and we also have eye-witness accounts, some by people now dead. I don't know how the myth persists that Oswald acted alone and acted out of his own motives.
I suspect with this year's 50th anniversary of the death of President Kennedy that we will be seeing a lot of these stories.
I think one thing that people overlook is Oswald's time in Russia. Russia was a country where czars/leaders were assassinated and I always thought Oswald got the idea to kill JFK from the communists he got to know while living in Russia. It was their mindset growing up after their revolution particularly.
I don't recall reading a whole lot of regret from the Russian people that their czar and his entire family were killed. It seemed to be a normal way of thinking for them and I suspect Oswald adopted this thinking.
If Oswald had never spent time in Russia, chances are he may not have done this.
All the evidence points to Oswald acting alone.
When the iron curtain fell, a few journalists headed to Russia immediately to try and find a connection to Oswald/Russia/JFK assassination. They found nothing.
Oswald I firmly believe acted alone. And I think he got the idea from Russia's history of assassinating their leaders. He erred in believing he would become some sort of hero here in America, like Lenin was in Russia.
If one interviews twenty-five "eyewitnesses" to an event, twenty-five different stories will be given. Eye witnesses are less accurate than a tarot deck. Both the interviewee and the interviewer will muddy the water. Your mind is NOT a camera, it will fill in the blanks with imagination.
Another vain attempt to keep the Kennedy name in front of the public, generation after generation. It's a Mayan Calendar event, a ride over the fiscal cliff, a millennial apocalypse, not happening scare. When Jack Ruby shot Lee Harvey Oswald, I was watching that on TV, and followed subsequent Kennedy deaths and scandals, including RFK and Teddy, and Jackie O., and the Shrivers and ad nauseam. Who's running for office now, and why do we have another conspiracy to raise awareness of the name for voter recognition? That is the question. JFK isn't coming back. Fidel Castro has one leg in the grave. Nikita Kruchev is long long gone, and the technologies of the Cuban Missile Crisis are so far past, an inch of dust is on the technology manuals. Give it up. Time to put the Kennedy clan to bed.
Excuse me, but why was the below comment collapsed? Nothing nasty, no name calling, no curse words, am I missing something? Is it because of the following line "Same as the Benghazi reports........SHODDY! Our government likes to think we are gullible...and many are!" There is nothing wrong with the comment. Our government is full of liars!
And the Snow White and three litle pigs and the wolf really exist, wright ? keep dreaming...
We all know that JFK was killed by the government of the USA. Every time a president gives rights to the Black's like JFK did he gets killed. The evidences is so clear that Oswald was the fall guy, He was set up and was a part of it. I saw a documentary on this a few weeks ago called, Dark legacy, This showed GHW Bush lead the team that killed JFK. Bush was right there in Dallas and called in misleading Information to mis direct the Dallas police and the FBI. The CIA did this. They were the only ones that could have called off the Military, Called off his SS that should have been right on the car to cover him in case of what happened. More like 6 of them not just 1. Hover was also in Dallas that day, They knew it was going to happen and set back and watched the show. Hover Couldn't stand the Kennedy's, They had to Kill RFK as well. They knew he was going to be elected President and they just couldn't let that happen. We all know the CIA is in bed with the mob. The JFK assassination was a Cue and Johnson was in on it too. First thing Johnson did was go all out in Vietnam. And how did he pay for Vietnam, he took the money out of ss trust fund and I will bet my last dollar that the money was never paid back. Sounds a little like Little Bush start 2 wars he didn't pay for. Now the GNOP wants us to cut back on Medicare and Medacade to pay for his wars. All those Billions that went missing in Iraq. We know who got that money. Dick Cheney. GW Bush.
Glenn:
Don't give up your day job, because writing is not in your future.
Dang it! I just read Stephen King's book, "11/22/63", where the plot indicated that Oswald was the sole killer. Just last month.
This info kind of spoils the book, now, even though it's fiction. I was never really sure there was a conspiracy theory to prove, but always wondered.
Makes you wonder who is really in power, not only in the U.S., but the world. Seems like the mafia (US or International) is behind almost everything.
Stull: You might not want to know just what happened in Benghzi. I have a strong feeling the Rep's and Mitt Romney might have had a hand in that like Reagan did in Carters trying that raid to get our men back from Iran. Mitt used a page from Reagan's play book. Thing is that was CIA covert operation. Classified operation. The CIA only let out what they wanted us to know. Ms Rich got hung out to dry for it.
Cancer silenced Jack Ruby soon after he shot Oswald.
Oswald died in 1963. Ruby died in 1967.
I will repeat what I was told by a SAC Chief for DOS. "JFK was not assassinated by a lone gunmen, period." The Dallas PD took almost total control for the motorcade that fateful day and a detour. I was told to look for who had the most to gain from his demise as President.
On that Sunday afternoon, Ruby went to the telegraph office to wire some money to one of his employees, leaving his dog in the car. After sending the wire, he decided to wander on over to the police station, which was just a few doors down. This was a pretty normal thing for Ruby to do, spending time at the police station. He was a well known figure there.
When he saw Oswald, he said he didn't like the smirk on Oswald's face, took out his gun and shot him. Ruby said later on that he regretted killing Oswald, because of all the conspiracy theories that popped up after the JFK and Oswald killings.
Oswald was supposed to have been transferred from the police station at a certain set time, but the transfer was delayed because Oswald wanted a change of shirt. Ruby showed up AFTER the original time the transfer was supposed to have happened.
In order to have ever believed in the warren report, you had to have a great deal of suspension of disbelief. In my world bullets don't travel in the direction of a Z, and the impact of a bullet hitting a deer never blows the deer towards the gun that shot it, so why would a man's head be blown backwards if he was shot from behind?
The research pretty much showed that the trajectory of the bullets into JFK's body could only have come from behind and up high.
Only one person was missing from the Book Depository after the shooting, and that person was Oswald. He also shot and killed a policeman shortly thereafter once a description of Oswald went out on the police radios. The policeman stopped to question Oswald after learning of the description of the man on the run from the Book Depository.
The rifle found in the Book Depository was Oswald's. He used it once earlier in the year to try and kill someone else. That bullet matched the rifle used in the JFK killing.
No one met Oswald after the shooting. If he were involved with others, we can assume they would have wanted to get him out of the area ASAP. Also, it was the woman he and his family were living with who got him the job at the Book Depository only weeks before 11/22/63.
He brought the rifle to work that morning, all wrapped up, explaining to people it was curtain rods. The rifle found in the Book Depository matched the bullet casings found at the scene.
There was no other shooter in the grassy knoll. People heard shots from that direction because Dealey Plaza is one big echo chamber.
august 13, 2008
Gerald Ford, last surviving member of the Warren commission, gave statements, which was reported by Michael J. Sniffen, assoc. press, in that interview he made a startling statement , in November 2006, before his death, in the interview he stated, " the wounds from the back could not be matched up with the magic bullet, we had to rearrange the clothing to make it look as a single shot, meaning, there was another shooter since Oswald could not have gotten off a fourth shot; he also stated , two other members beside himself, did not believe in the lone assassin theory, these documents were released in August 2008 with 500 pages from a freedom of information act order from a federal court.; Ford also stated he never believed Oswald was the lone assassin.
saxon, while I was growing up, I didn't believe Oswald was the lone assassin. But the only thing I had to go on was that it was pretty much in line with what everybody else thought.
I had read many years ago that the Russians were afraid of getting the blame for JFK's death because Oswald had at one time lived in Russia. So they did their own investigation to disprove Oswald was the assassin, but to their horror, they came to the conclusion that it was Oswald who did it. And that scared them.
As far as what Ford said, I don't quite understand this. JFK was shot, rushed to the hospital, doctors tried to save his life. They couldn't. The Kennedy and Johnson people wanted out of Dallas immediately, despite the hospital insisting on an autopsy. While all this arguing was going on, a JFK aide went out and bought a casket in the Dallas area. They more or less took it upon themselves to get out of there and back to DC ASAP against hospital policy.
It's amazing how quickly JFK got back to DC from the moment he was shot. Things happened so fast that day.
I think he was shot 1:30 eastern time, and he was back in DC just a few hours later, around 6:00 if I'm not mistaken. And it was then that an autopsy was done, with much confusion of facts as we later found out.
It was JFK and JFK alone who wanted the top down. The plan was that it would stay up. JFK nixed that idea. He wanted the crowds to see Jackie.
As far as the shots, there were 3. The first one missed. I saw a photo once of JFK's car immediately after the shooting and the rear view mirror was broken. The first shot it is assumed hit the mirror and bounced off somewhere.
The 2nd bullet went though JFK's throat (not the fatal shot) and hit Connolly. The 3rd bullet killed JFK.
All 3 shots were fired from the Book Depository. All the casings were up there.
Oswald supposedly didn't hate JFK. But who he did hate was Connolly, because as governor, he prevented Oswald from traveling either back to Russia or his desire to go to Cuba (I forget which).
Since Oswald was a huge Castro supporter, it seems likely that this is why he killed JFK, since JFK's Cuban policies were in direct opposition to what Oswald wanted/believed.
For someone like Oswald, it was reason enough to do it. Unfortunately.
Just a thought. America being a country with too much pride, covered up the who did it because of fear of embarrassment. The KGB assassination squad had the most to gain by removing Kennedy. Nikita Khrushchev did not like being publicly embarrassed by the United States and being forced to remove Nuke missiles in Cuba. He wanted those missiles there. We wanted those missiles out. We called Russian bluff with the Cuban missile crisis. The Russians got revenge by Killing our President. America did not want to admit that the KGB got through and successfully killed their target. Looking back America should have admitted it was the Russians because to this day people blame our own government for the deed. So it would have been better to admit no matter how hard you try to protect the nation, the bad guys sometimes get through. This would have caused initial fear but it would have strengthened our faith and trust that our government cares for us. Because we missed this opportunity to come clean and preserve American integrity we are forever going around on this issue. This is an example of when things should have been correctly dealt with openly and honestly for the nation's sake.
Glenn-974637
YOU HAVE NEWSVINE MAIL
We can all sleep better tonight, because Pat Boston has solved the murder of JFK.
History repeats itself. This is similar to the government's coverup of 9/11. The astronomical evidence from architects and structural engineers who show how there is no possible way that the WTC buildings could have collapsed the way they did due to a fire. This video is convincing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-8PFk8j5I
Pat Boston,
Thanks for your informative posts. I have read most of that information before and agree that Oswald probably acted alone.
You may enjoy reading Mrs. Kennedy and Me written by former Secret Service Agent Clint Hill. It is mostly a fascinating look at the aristocratic life of the First Lady during the years that Mr. Hill was assigned as her personal body guard, but the last 25 pages where he describes that day in Dallas are unforgettable.
Moment by moment, first-hand view from someone who was not only present at the assassination of John F. Kennedy, but also was the agent who jumped on the back of the automobile in an attempt to save the President and his wife.
Excellent book.
Thank you silverton for the book recommendation. It sounds very interesting and something I would very much enjoy reading.
Two can keep a secret when one of them is dead.
Stull, probably because it was an attempt to hijack the thread, and turn the discussion to something of particular interest to you, such as the dark secret you believe lies at the bottom of the Benghazi Embassy attacks.
I wouldn't collapse your post just for that, in fact, I'm not exactly sure how that is done. But really, whatever unanswered questions there may be about this past year's embassy attacks, how can you put it in the same discussion with a suspected organized crime hit on the President?
Come on, be serious?
I think the conspiracy theorists are entirely wrong on this topic. I get why they think some vast network was involved in the killing of JFK, but the psychological need of people to balance the effect of the event with the cause of it--meaning that something massive (good or bad) really needs to be caused by something large (good or bad too)--doesn't mean that any of the thoroughly debunked theories are true.
LHO was a nut, and a nobody. He desperately WANTED to be somebody. His phone records contain no inventory of mafia officials (sorry RFKjr). Ruby's phone records do, but they are small time mobsters, not the kind of names that would be needed to plan and then execute such an assassination.
The sad fact is that while all this speculation is "fun" for many people it also denigrates law enforcement and our political institutions. People say crazy things like shooters were on the Grassy Knoll, and we know this because people were pointing, or even RUNNING (of all things people would run TOWARDS the shooting?) towards it. Sorry, but in the aftermath of the shooting there was chaos. Sound moves around Dealy Plaza in ways that easily confuse listeners. People saw sparks (there were sparks from one of the bullets' copper jackets) ahead of the motorcade towards the Stemmons Fwy Overpass. But none of it adds up to anything other than LHO acted alone. Because he was a nothing, a nobody, and he wanted to be somebody that people would remember.
And, for pete's sake, can we STOP with the bad science about how bullet impacts cause tissue and bone to be distributed? There have been many tests of this phenomenon. What happened that day is completely supported by the science to indict just one shooter, someone from above and behind to the right. Only one person was there--LHO. And there was no magic bullet either. He fired three shots, the first of which missed. The second hit JFK to the right of his spine, existing his chest, and then hitting Governor Connolly. The third shot hit JFK in the head and killed him.
I get why RFK thinks the reports were shoddy. His father and uncle were both killed. He wants some grand conspiracy or large evil enterprise to be responsible. How could two powerful people (neither, imo, was politically good) be killed by two different nobody's? But they were.
RFK knew the Warren report was B((st, yet he told the public that it was true and wonderful!! what does that tell you about DC and the likes of tfe Kennedy's//
They all belong in the same sewer!!!
I just watched a new documentary by Oliver Stone called "The Untold History of the United States". Once you watch this it leaves almost no doubt about what happened to JFK and why. There were many groups of people after him, anyone of them could have been successful. And actually were, people really wanted him dead for a verity of reasons, the CIA because of the Bay of Pigs, the Mob because he was going after them, the military-Industrial Complex because he wouldn't go into Viet Nam, Hover because he hated Kennedy, VP Johnson's buddies because they equally hated JFK. But it certainly wasn't some lone dickhead from the sixth floor of a Texas book depository!
Maybe if more people spoke their minds, we would have gotten to the truth.
For somebody so "desperately wanting to be somebody", he didn't even know what crime he was being charged with.
Only the military could have coordinated this quasi coup. Before Kennedy's body was cold, Johnson did away with Kennedy's pull out of Vietnam and renewed/escalated our involvement.
The day Kennedy announced to the senate that he had second thoughts about Vietnam and the republicans started calling him "soft on communism", Kennedy was a marked man. The full report. shoddy or not, is still sealed. Why after all this time is it still sealed? why was it sealed to begin with? The American people have a right to know what is in it. The hidden rich don't want to be charged with treason and Murder. follow the money and you know who killed him. Who made billions from Nam? That's who killed him. I hope there is a god and I hope i'm standing right behind those bastards on judgement day. so as they beg for mercy and god denies them, I can watch their decent into hell.
"And as god has struck the hour, no more war pigs have the power.
begging mercy for their sins, Satin laughing spreads his wings. oh lord."
"We all know that JFK was killed by the government of the USA."
silverton, thanks for the youtube video you posted. (Post 1.21)
You can clearly see that JFK was hit already hit at the 0:26 second mark and he gets hit again at the 0:30 mark.
At the 0:26 mark JFK was grabbing his throat, something was already wrong. He got hit from the southeast direction.
The vehicle continues and then someone hits him again at the 0:30 mark from the northeast direction.
The film is 100% proof that JFK was hit twice.
People are stupid & gullible if they can't see it. It's all right there.
Eyewitnesses have said that a shot rang out from the grassy area. This would be the northeast direction.
Remember this, survivors of the Titanic were told they were seeing things when they described what happened to Titanic. They were told breakage of Titanic could not have happened the way they explained it. Recently its been proven the survivors were correct all along.
Bluelake
You are spot on
he had help, He may have been a lone shooter but he had help and Ruby was forced to kill Oswald.
JFK was trying to undermine the Federal Reserve by executive order to issue 4 billion dollars in silver certificate. that executive order is still on the books and can be enforced at any time
"Astronomical evidence", Mozzie 600? What could the movement of the planets and stars tell you about the 9/11 attacks?
Do you mean the stars revealed the truth to you about the 9/11 attacks? Then you probably should have used the word "Astrological".
As to the air-tight case you claim is self-evident, I have heard it argued in both directions by experts. Unless you are a structural engineer or an architect, I doubt seriously that you can make an informed decision regarding which group of experts to believe.
But in terms of motives, if the 9/11 attacks were arranged to justify some "wag the dog" attack on Afghanistan, and more probably, Iraq, why would it be necessary to have the buildings utterly collapse? Two planes striking these buildings would have been more than sufficient motivation, especially in conjunction with a strike at the Pentagon and the White House.
By contrast, look at the risks involved, how many people would need to keep the secret. Sorry, I don't think such a crime even makes bad sense. It would have been an unnecessary, high-risk maneuver.
"Astronomical evidence", yeah, that is pretty powerful stuff.
@ Ron -4064596:
Clearly, you've never read Mr. Donahue's findings.
His evaluation of the ballistic evidence is the only one ever performed by a fully qualified firearms examiner.
Neither you, nor anyone else has ever poked the first hole in his findings. All that has ever transpired is that they've been dismissed and ignored.
It is the only explanation that makes any sense whatsoever, if one is intelligent enough to apply Occam's Razor.
I suggest that you do a little research and reading before you (or anyone else) goes all conspiracist.
Wild theories and speculation only makes people look like crackpots.
The bullet that hit JFK's head exploded the front of his head. Bullets such as the ones used in the Mannlicher (spelling?) that day, as I understand, go in small, and as they pass through, build up an enormous amount of pressure. That causes an "exploding" effect as they exit. The shot that kills Kennedy in the film had to come from behind, as the front of his head clearly explodes. Kennedy's head was turned at a perfect angle for that to come from the depository it seems to me. He was turning and tilting towards Mrs. Kennedy when it hit. Another poster is right when he points out it's a miracle she didnt get hit.
There is evidence that there was no "magic" bullet. The bullet that passed through JFK's neck did hit Connally. It didn't need to perform a series of midair turns. The Warren Commission, and I know everyone (pro and anti-conspiracy alike) will be shocked, did not bother to take the dimensions of the limo. I won't pretend to know the exact measurements, but Connally was sitting below Kenndy's height in the car, and to the left. That makes the bullet coming from the depository's angle very plausible.
I wouldn't put it past anyone in power to attempt an assassination. I don't know for certain that there was no plot. I wasn't there. Based on the physical evidence that is availible, I think Oswald acted alone. I at least believe he was the only one shooting. Even if you, like me, are pretty sure Oswald acted all by his lonesome, I think we can all agree, even with people who believe in a wider conspiracy, that the Warren Commission Report was woefully inadequate. And while I may not agree with RFK Jr. that there was another shooter, I agree it was a shoddy piece of work. I think a healthy debate, free of angry accusations and name calling, regarding the events surrounding that day are always useful.
I apologize for all the "I"s and "me"s. I stunk at writing in school.
DMDBBD, are you saying that Oswald shot twice?
You said a bullet passed through JFK's neck and hit Connally.
Then a second bullet must have hit JFK in the neck again then it traveled up JFK's head and exploded out the front of his head.
I find the second bullet doing that hard to believe. The second bullet came from the grassy area, not from Oswald but from someone else.
I believe Oswald hit him in the neck which passed through and hit Connally and someone else hit him again on the front right side forehead from the grassy area.
I used the informal astronomical in my comments which is perfectly acceptable, so don't be a smartass. As to your other nonsensical remarks, did you see the youtube documentary as I suggested? Of course not. Then your comments have no basis.
Hello folks, everyone else on the planet knows what happened to JFK that ominous day as well as 911 except the American sheeple. Let's just create the 1 Trillion dollar coin because it's just as legitimate as the Warren and 911 commission reports. The sheeple think so anyway!
Breaking News: The MSM is reporting that a suppository bomber was thwarted at a major airport. New safety procedures to perform cavity searches have immediately been put into place. When a survey was performed asking the American travelers if they would comply, a majority stated "If you don't have anything to hide what's the big deal".
We owe this country's demise to two VERY BAD PEOPLE. Donald Rumsfeld and his admirer Dick Cheney. These two "people" profited from every deceitful thing that has cost our citizens and it's soldiers uncountable money and lives, FOR THEIR OWN PERSONAL GREED AND PLEASURE. Rumsfeld for his many associations with the military industrial complex and his personal desire for fame. Cheney because of his associations with the oil industry and his desire for world domination. these two individuals profited from the Death of President Kennedy due to the military industrial complexes desire to have a war (FOR PROFIT OF COURSE) , Viet Nam was their desire. We as a nation have never been able to tell the truth from a lier. We just went through an election that the republicrap nominee was known, by ANY SANE PERSON, to be lying every time he opened his mouth, YET THIS SHYSTER GOT MILLIONS OF VOTES. I am not saying the democrats are saints either, it is just that they are more interested in the welfare of their citizens, where the republicraps are more interested in their corporations and their offshore money accounts.
Clint Hill, the Secret Service Agent assigned to protect Mrs. Kennedy, was riding on the running board of the car behind the presidential limo. He said he was scanning the grassy knoll on his left when he heard a "sudden, explosive noise over my right shoulder. I turned my head toward the noise, and as my eyes moved across the president's car, I saw President Kennedy grab at his throat and lurch to his left."
Agent Hill jumped off the running board and ran toward the limo in front of him. He said he "wasn't thinking, only reacting." He said he was told there was a second shot, but he never heard it because of the noise of the crowd and the motorcycles. He had almost reached the limo when he heard the next shot that exploded the president's head. That was when he grabbed the handhold on the back of the limo and was almost dragged when the car accelerated. He said he still doesn't know how he did it, but he lunged, found the footstep on the back of the limo and pulled himself onto it.
I will not spoil the rest of his testimony if someone wants to read it, but it is fascinating, although sad and gruesome at the same time.
Mr. Hill was present at the autopsy and was shown the President's wounds. He said the large wound to the head was in the upper-right rear of the head, not the front. He said the medical examiner explained how the skull and brain exploded and Mr. Hill said "yes, I know. I saw it. I was five feet from the President when the impact occurred."
Anyway, I found Mr. Hill's testimony very compelling. He did not tell his story for years, even burned his notes (he is 80 now, book came out last year). But, finally, an experienced author, Lisa McCubbin, approached him and asked him if he would consider telling his story because that whole generation is dying out now and it would mean so much to people and to history if they knew his side of it.
Mr. Hill has always believed it was one shooter.
So do I.
But, I am sure there were plenty of people out there who wanted to kill the President. That is why I wish people would show more respect to President of the United States no matter who he is. Our nation's leader is under constant threat from so many nutcases or extreme fringe groups or corporate giants that want to control the world themselves.
It is a such a shame when the best of us die doing what we were perhaps destined to do.
You can add to that list: Elliott Abrams, Gary Bauer, William J. Bennett, Jeb Bush, Steve Forbes, Aaron Friedberg, Lewis “Scooter” Libby, Steve Forbes, Aaron Friedberg, Dan Quayle, Paul Wolfowitz, and William Kristol. Among many others, these people are part of the Project for the New American Century which their principles state, in part:
...conservatives have not confidently advanced a strategic vision of America's role in the world. They have not set forth guiding principles for American foreign policy. They have allowed differences over tactics to obscure potential agreement on strategic objectives. And they have not fought for a defense budget that would maintain American security and advance American interests in the new century. We aim to change this. We aim to make the case and rally support for American global leadership.
(see their website: http://www.newamericancentury.org/)
Also, see a synopsis of the film New American Century - PNAC Exposed at: http://axisoflogic.com/artman/publish/Article_61535.shtml
It's disgusting. Excerpt from the synopsis:
This film goes in detail through the untold history of The Project for the New American Century with tons of archival footage and connects it right into the present. This film exposes how every major war in US history was based on a complete fraud with video of insiders themselves admitting it. It shows how the first film theaters in the US were used over a hundred years ago to broadcast propaganda to rile the American people into the Spanish-American War.
It shows the white papers of the oil company, Unocal, which called for the creation of a pipeline through Afghanistan and how their exact needs were fulfilled through the US invasion of Afghanistan. This film shows how Halliburton under their "cost plus" exclusive contract with the US Government went on a mad dash spending spree akin to something out of the movie Brewster's Millions, yet instead of blowing $30 million they blew through BILLIONS by literally burning millions of dollars worth of hundred thousand dollar cars and trucks if they had so much as a flat tire.
In addition, from the New American Century website, this arrogant business model:
The Project for the New American Century is a non-profit educational organization dedicated to a few fundamental propositions: that American leadership is good both for America and for the world; and that such leadership requires military strength, diplomatic energy and commitment to moral principle.
The Project for the New American Century intends, through issue briefs, research papers, advocacy journalism, conferences, and seminars, to explain what American world leadership entails. It will also strive to rally support for a vigorous and principled policy of American international involvement and to stimulate useful public debate on foreign and defense policy and America's role in the world.
What about all the rumours out for years that the conservative right was involved in the JFK assassination ???
Evil Tessmacher,
Although Donahue's theory is intriguing, even if it were true and a Secret Service agent accidentally delivered the final shot, I don't see how it really changes anything.
For years Donahue was completely in agreement with most of the Warren report. He even duplicated Oswald's shooting feat as described in the report as have many others. It may have been somewhat challenging, but not extraordinaryfor a skilled shooter. The most difficult aspect is remaining calm under such circumstances. That is an advantage that a committed nut case has.
Donahue debates the forensic evidence as to the trajectory and ballistic performance of the cartridge Oswald was using. He admits that he came up with the idea after investigating an accidental police shooting with an AR-15. No doubt, the wound evidence would be consistent with that weapon, but to say it is not consistent with Oswald's is a bit of a stretch. It seems odd that no one would have seen the agent's weapon fire. The sound of that weapon firing at close distance is going to be unmistakeably different from the shots fired from 100 yards away. It defies imagination that this would have gone unnoticed. And as to the trajectory, I don't see this as a problem. You have to realize that the President was moving and leaning forward at the time that shot hit. His exact angle at the precise point of contact is hard to accurately identify. Others who have looked at the same evidence see "conclusively" that the bullet came from the front! That seems to be nearly impossible in my opinion, but obviously there will always be different interpretations.
No doubt there were some errors in the recording of the forensic evidence. It is understandable under the circumstances. Was the entry wound 6mm or 6.5mm? To some extent this could be a judgement call and even at that, with the surrounding fractures, the measured hole of displaced bone matter could be slightly smaller than the projectile. When you look at all the evidence and understand that some of it may be slightly flawed, the end result is still consistent with the Warren Commission's conclusions. Although Donahue's theory is "plausible", the biggest weakness I see is no one observing the shot as he proposes. This seems impossible to have been missed because nearby eye witnesses are going to see what is in front of them rather than concluding the shot came from 100 yards away. Their minds are going to link the things they see in their field of view and draw conclusions from that.
In order for Donahue's theory to be true, you are talking about the "perfect storm" of unfortunate coincidences occurring in a split second of time. Not "impossible", but highly unlikely. Donahue's theory conveniently allows for a wide range of perceived trajectory discrepancies depending on how the gun was positioned as the agent began to fall. Regardless, true or not it makes little difference. In Donahue's view, the first wound was likely going to be fatal anyway. Who knows for sure. But the basic outcome is still the same. It would have instead just created some controversy of little consequence.
All things considered, I pretty much believe the official reports. I think that Oswald acted alone although I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he was encouraged somehow. I think a government based conspiracy was not the case although some influence of foreign powers or even mafia bosses is plausible.
I think as Rich stated, when something so significant happens, we tend not to accept the simple answer of some lone nut case being the sole cause. It is depressing to think that the hard efforts of mankind united together as we progress through history, could somehow be sabotaged by the efforts of a single lunatic. We want a more complex answer. We seek some logic to it and seek some bigger enemy that we can address. But the reality is that history has sometimes been changed by a brief moment in time by some completely unconnected almost random event. As human beings we like to think we can control our own destinies and we like to think that united as a group of humans we are even more powerful and more in control. We don't want to believe that one crazy person with no logical mission can somehow change history in a split second. But it can happen.
Mozzie, I'm going to apologize, which is something I seldom do on these threads. But having watched the first 40 minutes of the youtube presentation of a PBS broadcast in 2012, I'm literally shaking my head. Although I still say that proper judgement on the subject would require hearing all contrary evidence.
It was a very calm, rational portrayal of a considerable body of [non-Astronomical] evidence, that both the two World Trade Center Towers, and WTC building 7 were only brought down through a controlled demolition using high-tech explosives. Watching the video, it is very difficult to believe otherwise. It includes testimony by structural engineers, architects, demolition experts, and eye witnesses, who speak of hearing serial explosions, and even molten steel, something which cannot have occurred as the result of an office fire.
That does not mean there is not creditable case to be made in opposition, only that I cannot make it.
So, i would urge others to view this video as well, and draw their own conclusions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-8PFk8j5I
BTW: The phrase, "Astronomical Evidence", can only refer to evidence revealed by the observance of the stars, planets and other heavenly bodies. "Astronomical quantities of evidence" would be a somewhat over-blown metaphor for the quantity of evidence supporting your contention.
Freedom in America is just an illusion; and those, along with many others, are the magicians.
Are we electing or re-electing people? I often wondered if some outcomes in elections are actually true. Its nothing to say someone won when they didnt =\
You are correct about the adjective astronomical preceding the noun evidence when it should have preceded either quantities of or bodies of. In my haste to get my point across, I failed to use correct grammar. My being a wordsmith, this is unusual. However, I believe you knew what the intent was, and could have been a little more gentle in your observation of the error. Otherwise, I believe the term was used correctly and not overblown (maybe a tad). However, I have decided not to 'ignore this author' (you) for being arrogant, and we may even have some meaningful dialogue in the future. (Yes, I acknowledge I used a split infinitive here.)
Apology accepted ('your' is elliptical here). I think this video should be seen by all Americans, especially those who have taken the 9/11 Commission Report at face value.
Until the is a LOGICAL explanation for how Mack WALLACE'S fingerprints wound up on a box on the 6th floor of the TSBD, it HAS TO BE ASSUMED that there were at least 2 shooters .
AND there has NEVER been conclusive proof
that LHO fired any weapon that day, in the TSBD or at TIPPIT shooting site .
(recall that they found LHO's billfold at the site BUT they ALSO took his billfold at the TEXAS Theatre AND there was the one left at his home on the dresser !!!!)
I read someone say read Mr. Posner, there have been so many holes poked in him he leeks like a sieve.
Look at the ballistic evidence, Medical evidence, and the film evidence.
Now ask yourself. Who had the most to gain when he was killed, who had the most to loss if he lives.
Who had control of the evidence before during and after?? Who could manipulate this???
It wasn't the Mafia or some foreign Government. The Mafia might have had some influence but that is all.
The "Lone Gunman" proposition was/is a myth supported by the LIBOR/Ramjack Consortium so blame can be pushed onto perceived societal problems, and diverted from the organization's twisted, evil manipulations designed to bring them supreme power...and a few extra mistresses, another yacht, and penthouse, or villa on the Med. In all cases, ask to see the video. Show me the brass.
I wonder if he ever came to a conclusion on that issue. My own opinion is that there is no just God.
Find the BBC series Red Dwarf and watch the episode "Tikka to Ride". This gives the best conspiracy theory on what happened and who actually shot JFK.
Robert Kennedy had so much trouble getting at the truth because some of his closest confidants were involved in the assassination.
Alexander Haig was one such confidant. In the early sixties, he and RFK worked up close and personal. They, and a select faction of Bay of Pigs veterans, plotted sabotage missions against Cuba for the CIA.
In 1963, Haig (and a CIA Bay of Pigs veteran named Howard Hunt) simply turned one of those CIA operations against President Kennedy. When it was done, Haig arranged the funeral.
Yes, Alexander Haig murdered President Kennedy and then made the funeral arrangements, right under Robert Kennedy's nose.
For more, read Against Them by Tegan Mathis. It's not complicated.
Mafia/crime syndicate, could be, but those dirty secrets would've eventually tumbled out over 50 years.
Just as possible is murder from within government, those able to keep secrets and keep the lid on those knowledgable (most of who are likely now dead, either from old age or accident). Those in the federal govt. most furious with JFK and his evolving dove stance on the Cold War and Vietnam were the Joint Chiefs and their step-sibling CIA. Since the 1950s, there always has been a too cozy relationship between the Pentagon and Langley ... and not just because they're in geographical close proximity. There've been dozens and dozens of books on the assassination, of course. One of the most interesting as to background government and govt. agency interactions, including White House memorandums from Kennedy that most in the public have never seen, are detailed in the 400-page, small print but highly readable "JFK and the Unspeakable: Wy He Died & Why It Matters" by James Douglass. It isn't the definitive examination of the assassination, since there isn't one yet. But I defy anyone to get very far into it without weeping. I had to keep putting it down and walking away every 30 pages or so. Post-war 1950s and early 1960s held so much hope and potential for most Americans. All the global alliances reformed during WWII led to intricate networks of military/corporate/intel threads throughout government. All the intrigue and behind the scenes power grab chess games - within the federal govt. - would've been improbable, if not utterly unbelievable, to most Americans until more and more citizens awoke to the 1980s/Iran Contra, coming on the heels of the prior decade of Watergate and Vietnam/Pentagon lies and intrigue. Flawed men committing hideous acts for power just never ends, decade after decade, administration after administration, while the public is distracted by bad economies and joblessness, over and over. Much about JFK's murder remains to be made public, but Kennedy rapidly came to agree with Eisenhower about the military and the military industrial complex that wrapped themselves in the flag while tunneling under the Constitution. The year prior to his murder, Kennedy blocked the Joint Chiefs from executing a nuclear first strike on Moscow; their finger was on the button. JFK also in 1963 began issuing orders to de-militarize the intel intrigue and fractured diplomacy brewing in SE Asia. The Joint Chiefs hated Kennedy. One realizes that working arm in arm to seize control of post-war America was the tin soldier Pentagon and global intel networks (foreign and the CIA, not its rival sibling FBI, which has different duties and oversight.) Fifty years later, war after continuous war, it does seem those with that same agenda in 1963 prevailed.
NO WAY one man did it!
Haig was just another pawn for the "foundation ' families. The Bush family is one of them. the blood is on both parties hands. and on the hands of their puppet masters. How much did Grumman and boing make on that war? how much did dow make? even mattel got in the act making the plastic stocks of M16s. The Cash cow that Kennedy was going to deny them.
duplicate
Almost any Marine back then, a hunter, or any one that knows somewhat how to shot a bolt action rifle could have done it. 3 shots in that amount of time at that distance is pretty easy on a target that is moving at a nice slow consistent speed.
The jump seat was not mounted inline with the backseat and was offset to the one side. That is why the bullet "appears" to curve, but in reality it traveled in a straight path.
The bullet to the head caused a pressure wave just like a block of ballistics gel. The right side/front part of the wave exited the head (canoe) and the remaining part of the wave/energy still in the head forced it back and to the left.
No one that heard the grassy knoll shots heard the shots coming from the book depository to my knowledge. There are such things as echoes too since there were many buildings around.
Maybe he was hired by someone else, but that is a whole other story. The shooting however could have easily been done by one man with military training.
Here's my issue with that:
Oswald had JFK heading towards him in that motorcade at the consistent speed you mention. At that time, JFK was a sitting duck....slow moving target coming directly towards the shooter. Also, JFK was trapped: had Oswald missed the first couple of shots, no problem. JFK's limo had cars in front and behind, no where to go.
But, does he take that easy shot? Nope. He waits until the motorcade makes the sweeping left turn onto Elm St. Now, the target is moving away from him at an angle. Also, there was now a tree in Oswald's line of vision to the target. A far more difficult shot. Why did he wait?
By waiting, JFK was now in the center of triangulation between Oswald, the grassy knoll and the freeway overpass. Put a shooter at each of those spots and their sucess rate would be near 100%
Now, the shot Oswald took wasn't nearly as easy as you indicate. The situation has been re-inacted numerous times by active military snipers. Given the same weapon Oswald used and the time he had to get off three shots, the snipers collectively turn in a hit record of under 60%. And one would assume the snippers aren't nearly as stressed in that test situation as Oswald would have been shooting at the president.
Although much was made of the fact that Oswald was a "sharpshooter" in the Marines, that's not any big deal. When I went through Air Force basic training in the late 60's, everyone....literally everyone....made the status of "sharpshooter", which was the first ribbon everyone earned to put on their uniform. Anyone so lame they couldn't manage it on the first or second try got special instruction and practice until they made it. No one left basic without being a "sharpshooter", which is the next to lowest marksman rank, BTW.
IMHO, the shooting would have been near impossible for one individual.
As a former Marine & lifelong deer hunter, I agree with you for the most part.Nevertheless, hitting a moving target 3 times with a bolt action rifle would be a very difficult shot,but certainly not impossible.I find it hard to believe one man acted alone.On the other hand if it was organized why choose a bolt action weapon in the first place.In my opinion the time it takes to discharge the shell & chamber the next round & re-aim is the hardest part of the mission.I gotta figure a semi-automatic would have been at least 3 to 5 times easier with a much better chance of success.From what I've read Oswald was a mediocre shot at best.It seems like the more we know the more confusing it gets.
50 years & this thing still stinks.Everything from the shooter(s?)to Ruby to the SS getting a bucket at Parkland to clean the Limo is like a bad TV movie.If it were fiction no one would buy it.If anything there are even more questions now than there ever was & it's doubtful we will get any answers in this lifetime.
Semper Fidelis
Especially since it was noted that this gun was faulty and Oswald wasn't the type of person that was capable of such a feat. There is a book out called the Godfathers of all Godfathers by Bonano. He is writing about his father, who I do not believe to be the ultimate godfather; however h explains in detail how the mob, CIA, and LBJ kill Kennedy and who Jack Ruby was to them, plus his relationship with Oswald. One of my professors made us read it for his history class because he believed this particular theory.
The Warren Commission's account of this assassination is sealed until after all the people living during 1963 have passed away. Who knows if the real truth will be revealed then?
Oswald was not trained for a shot or shots like that.
@ yiterp
It was said to be Oswald's gun he bought through mail order. Without it they could not tie Oswald to the shooting. I might add that there were witnesses that said they saw Oswald on the street in front of the book depository when the shooting took place.
It's already been forensically proven that the rifle supposedly used by Oswald could not have fired that many shots within the time frame. Also the ballistic and sound evidence also proves that there were more than one shooter. It's also been proven that the Zapruder film was edited. The Warren commission was a sham, the people responsible for this assassination knew one thing for sure before they did it, that there were many people that wanted him dead. Take a look at what happens today in our world and what drives it - always money. JFK wanted to pull out of Vietnam, also wanted to gut the CIA and the FBI, had dirt on everyone including Hoover and his male lover. LBJ hated him and especially Bobby, they kept him out of everything even more than GW kept Powell tied up. So who did it? Probably a tightly-knit group with cooperation from a lot of insiders who had a stake in the game. Mafia, CIA, LBJ, they all had skin in the game and all it took was a little planning and a lot of clean-up after the fact. I don't personally think Oswald fired a shot. I also believe that a lot of people did things that they were told to do without knowing what was about to happen. If you don't care about the truth or the re-writing of history then go ahead and put your head back in the sand.
NevadaJ:
Your arguments dissolve under critical analysis, because of contradiction, and because you don’t understand the value of percentages.
You wrote: “Oswald had JFK heading towards him in that motorcade at the consistent speed you mention. At that time, JFK was a sitting duck....slow moving target coming directly towards the shooter.” The term “sitting duck” means that, without question, the target would have been hit, i.e., a 100% probability that the target is hit. As you point out: “JFK's limo had cars in front and behind, no where to go”, which means that repeated follow up shots ould have been made, almost guaranteeing a kill.
Next, you wrote: “But, does he take that easy shot? Nope. He waits until the motorcade makes the sweeping left turn onto Elm St. […] By waiting, JFK was now in the center of triangulation between Oswald, the grassy knoll and the freeway overpass. Put a shooter at each of those spots and their success rate would be near 100%.” So, what you’re saying is that the conspirators allowed their target to move from a “sitting duck” position, where a single sniper had a 100% chance of scoring multiple kill shots, to a less then optimum position that you even admit was “a far more difficult shot”, because the target is moving away from him (Oswald) at an angle, and because “there was now a tree in Oswald's line of vision to the target.”
Now here’s the conundrum you wrote for yourself: You claim that by waiting, the motorcade passed into a kill zone of triangulated gunfire, which you believe gave the snipers an almost 100% guarantee of hitting the target. However, you diminish that percentage point by explaining that re-enactments by expert shooters could do no better than 60% (Daniel Martinez: History Channel, 2010).
You claim that the School Book Depository sniper passed on the 100% “sitting duck” shot, and instead, opted for the 60% Elm Street shot, because of the triangulated kill zone. Why would anyone opt for a tactic that lessens their chance for success, when a more advantageous tactic is available to them? Please explain the illogical nature of your argument?
Moreover, if the Sixth Floor of the School Book Depository building is one very large room, then why couldn’t there have been two snipers on that floor, 15 feet apart shooting at the president, and another sniper on the roof of the adjacent Dal-Tex Building? This would have given three snipers a triangulated firing plot, facing the President’s limousine before it turned onto Elm Street.
DesotoKim:
Sorry, but according to a History Channel documentery; Oswald's Marine Corp rifle range records show that he was trained to take shots like that, and better then that. In fact, his records show him to have been an excellent shot with an M-14, 7.62x57 cal rifle, which has a hell-of-alot more kick then a 6.65x52 Italian Carcano.
Robin hot in NM:
The Warren Commission Report was published, and made available to the public in 1964. It is available on the Internet.
Arkius - By waiting and getting a triangulation of shooters, the conspirators got a 100% chance of a kill, as Nevada mentioned in his post. That is far better than one shooter with a bolt action rifle, no matter what Oswald's skill level was with a rifle. Any sudden action by Kennedy could have ruined a shot from one gunman.
Then take into consideration the probability of Jack Ruby, a small time mobster, killing Oswald. What could his motivation possibly have been, other than to silence the only definite participant in the event? That action proves there were other people involved. I hardly think he did it out of patriotism. Ruby's mob affiliation was with Meyer Lansky, head of Murder Incorporated, who left the country to live in Israel.
Ralph:
You neither read my comment's carefully, nor did you read NevadaJ's comment's carefully.
According to NevadaJ, waiting for the motorcade to turn onto Elm Street, and into the triangulated kill zone, only gave the three snipers a 60% chance of hitting their target, and not a 100% chance.
NevadaJ, also claims that the single sniper, had a sitting "duck target", locked in by a slow moving vehicle in front, and another vehicle behind, giving the shooter a 100% chance of hitting the target with multiple shots. Now, which of NevadaJ's two scenarios offer the greater probability of hitting and killing the target; the first, or the second?
I proposed a scenario that suggests triangulated gunfire from in front, i.e., as the President's limousine traveled down Houston Street. Do you have any comments to make about the feasibility of that set of circumstances?
You are a very confused person.
Why should I take into consideration anything that Jack Ruby did, relative to the above three scenarios? Ruby's actions have no influence on the physical events in Dealey Plaza.
Gee Arkius - I guess you have a problem in reading for comprehension. Here is what I copied from Nevada's post:
By waiting, JFK was now in the center of triangulation between Oswald, the grassy knoll and the freeway overpass. Put a shooter at each of those spots and their sucess rate would be near 100%.
It is you who are confused.
Here is a link which gives a different account of what happened and who might have been involved. I believe it was both the CIA and the Mossad, working together.
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/JFKbushG.htm
Arkius: I think you missed the point that I was responding to someone who believed Oswald acted alone. My point to that poster was, had he acted alone, why would he have passed on the "sitting duck" shot?
I was using the fact that Oswald passed on that shot as evidence there were other shooters. Certainly, Oswald himself had a more difficult shot, but with three shooters their probability of sucess was multiplied.
And BTW, although there are numerous subjects I certainly don't understand, percentages isn't one of them. I'm a working statistician.
Ralph:
You have the critical thinking skills of a brain damaged nine year old.
NevadaJ wrote: “By waiting, JFK was now in the center of triangulation between Oswald, the grassy knoll and the freeway overpass. Put a shooter at each of those spots and their success rate would be near 100%” The operative words here are “near 100%.” Anyone familiar with the English language, except you, apparently, realizes that Nevada is indicating that the real number is actually less then 100%.
I argue that NevadaJ contradicts himself, and actually proposes a scenario with a greater kill percentage. I cite his first paragraph: “Oswald had JFK heading towards him in that motorcade at the consistent speed you mention. At that time, JFK was a sitting duck....slow moving target coming directly towards the shooter. Also, JFK was trapped: had Oswald missed the first couple of shots, no problem. JFK's limo had cars in front and behind, no where to go.” By definition, the term “sitting duck” means a sure thing, i.e., a 100% chance of occurring. Now, which scenario has a greater chance of success; one with a 100% chance of happening, or one with less then 100% chance of happening.
It’s a simple task of comparison. Do you think your dim wit allows you to distinguish the difference between 100% of something and less then 100% of the same thing?
BTW: Only Grammar School children begin a sentence with “Gee”, and you don’t have a problem “in reading for comprehension”, you have a problem with reading comprehension.
Now, if you had the intellectual capacity to read and comprehend, you would have realized that I proposed a hypothetical scenario that imposes triangulated gunfire on the President’s Limousine on Houston Street, prior to making the turn onto Elm Street. This means that in the area fronting the Texas School Book Depository, there were two places that triangulated gunfire could have been used to assassinate JFK. Does this stimulate any activity in your seldom-used mind?
If you cannot understand the concept of comparison between “near 100%” and 100%, then please don’t respond. I do not have the patience to teach the intellectually challenged to reason with simple information.
Gee Arkius - My post clearly showed you erred when you quoted Nevada. You wrote: "According to NevadaJ, waiting for the motorcade to turn onto Elm Street, and into the triangulated kill zone, only gave the three snipers a 60% chance of hitting their target, and not a 100% chance". Where, pray tell, did Nevada post 60% as you clearly posted. Again, I am saying, along with provided proof, you apparently have a reading comprehension problem and I proved it so. I can't figure out where you came up with the figure 60%. I guess you pulled it straight out of your anus.
I fully understand that 60% is far less than 100%, but no one wrote 60%. Three people in a triangle, clearly have a greater chance of success that one alone, especially against a moving vehicle.
Good post Nevada. I guess Arkius was just too dumb to comprehend your meaning, although he sure sticks to his guns.
“By waiting, JFK was now in the center of triangulation between Oswald, the grassy knoll and the freeway overpass. Put a shooter at each of those spots and their sucess rate would be near 100%. Now, the shot Oswald took wasn't nearly as easy as you indicate. The situation has been re-inacted numerous times by active military snipers. Given the same weapon Oswald used and the time he had to get off three shots, the snipers collectively turn in a hit record of under 60%. And one would assume the snippers aren't nearly as stressed in that test situation as Oswald would have been shooting at the president” (NevadaJ:#4.1 - Sat Jan 12, 2013 4:27 AM EST)
RalphH "Any sudden action by Kennedy could have ruined a shot from one gunman."
JFK would never had been able to have any sudden movement to ruin the shot because of the back brace he was wearing. He wore that back brace since 1946 because of the injury to his back from WW2.
Shhhhhhh; facts ruin his fantasy.
Thank you Arkius.
What I thought was unusual when I was in the USAF and having to do my yearly M16 qualification. The instructors told us to hit center of mass, because that would injure the person and it would take 2 others to help him. I never liked that, everytime I had my qualification the majority of my shots would be in the head area of the target. When I shoot, I shoot to kill. I didn't want that enemy to ever be able to come back and injure another.
The back Brace was only waist high! It did not stop Kennedy from falling over! he got set up by a shot to the back.
Many of us have thought from the beginning that there was way more to this story than we were being told. But, why not just find the truth and tell us? Did that mean that it was an "inside job"? How, in all these years, did someone not let something slip, or just come out and tell the truth??? I agree that the story we were told was too "neat" and nicely wrapped up. Even in those days, there was disbelief that Oswald was not better guarded and that Ruby could just walk up to such an important prisoner and shoot him. But, it was live on TV, so it must be true, yes? And the explanation for the complicated way the lone bullet traveled? Seriously?
I was a young teen, and even I smelled something, and it made me aware that the American people are totally gullible. This, of course, has been proven over and over again since then: Iraq War and weapons of mass destruction, taxpayers must bailout greedy banks or the world will implode, our president was born in another country, and on and on.
Adjust your tin hat sweetie. If you believe President Obama was born in anotehr country you're simply a nut job who buys the teatard whack-job talking points without thinking for yourself.
Let me guess...middle-aged white woman married to a frustrated middle-aged white guy.
Jango, I think you got it backwards. It doesn't read that she's saying that, any more than she's saying there were WMDs, that we must bail out the banks, etc. Your last comment was idiotic useless cheap shot. While we probably would agree on a lot politically, but you really need to rein in your need to make it personal since it seems this time you really didn't get her point.
D'Jango's got an agenda; save your breath.
The whole gov't story has 'stunk on ice' for 49 years, this year it'll stink for 50
For the main figure, Oswald, to be killed by Jack Rubinstein before he could say a word says volumes. The assassination set the stage for the criminal Lyndon Johnson, a man whom Kennedy was not going to pick for a second term, to be president.
After becoming president, Johnson fully engaged America in Vietnam and armed Israel to the teeth.
A little known fact is johnson was a Zionist Jew on his maternal grandparents side. See Below:
http://lennybendavid.com/2008/05/lyndon-johnsons-historical-connection.html
http://www.jweekly.com/article/full/36262/friend-ally-savior-revealing-lbj-s-jewish-ties/
Research into
Johnson's personal history indicates that he inherited his concern for the
Jewish people from his family. His aunt Jessie Johnson Hatcher, a major
influence on LBJ, was a member of the Zionist Organization of America. As a
young boy, Lyndon watched his politically active grandfather "Big Sam"
and father "Little Sam" seek clemency for Leo Frank, the Jewish
victim of a blood libel in Atlanta. Frank was lynched by a mob in 1915, and the
Ku Klux Klan in Texas threatened to kill the Johnsons. Johnson's speechwriter
later stated, "Johnson often cited Leo Frank's lynching as the source of
his opposition to both anti-Semitism and isolationism."
Lyndon Johnson’s maternal ancestors, the Huffmans, apparently migrated to
Frederick, Maryland from Germany sometime in the mid-eighteenth century. Later
they moved to Bourbon, Kentucky and eventually settled in Texas in the
mid-to-late nineteenth century.10
According to Jewish law, if a person’s mother is
Jewish, then that person is automatically Jewish, regardless of the father’s
ethnicity or religion. The facts indicate that both of Lyndon Johnson’s
great-grandparents, on the maternal side, were Jewish. These were the
grandparents of Lyndon’s mother, Rebecca Baines.11
Their names were John S. Huffman and Mary Elizabeth Perrin.12
John Huffman’s mother was Suzanne Ament, a common Jewish name. Perrin is also a
common Jewish name.
Huffman and Perrin had a daughter, Ruth Ament Huffman,13
who married Joseph Baines14
and together they had a daughter, Rebekah Baines,15
Lyndon Johnson’s mother. The line of Jewish mothers can be traced back three
generations in Lyndon Johnson’s family tree. There is little doubt that he was
Jewish.
This guy must be really scared of Jews to make up this story. Many people in the 1700's, 1800's and 1900's were given names from those we all read about from the bible. Just because one has a name or names from a Germanic background doesn't make one Jewish.
The jewis are definitibe Evil people, if we read the bible their made a lot of conspirations and infiltrated in others cultures, for that reason they kill Jesus because He don't taken part in this, he is agains this policy, "My Kindom is Not from this World" Jesus said
Hey Kenny - Did you read the links? Johnson's actions speak louder than words. Here is a quote from Johnson, during the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty, which killed 34 American sailors and wounded 172, taken from the timeline of the attack.1729: Rear Admiral Lawrence Geis, commander of
the Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean, protests decision to recall rescue planes
to Secretary of Defense McNamara. At that point President Johnson comes on the
phone and says he didn't care if the ship sunk, he would not embarrass his
allies. Admiral Geis tells Lt. Commander David Lewis, head of the Liberty's NSA
group, of the remark, but asks him not to repeat it until after he dies. It is
a promise Lewis will honor.
What president in their right mind, would call back the rescue planes, while an American ship was under attack and then follow it up by making that comment? Johnson was a Zionist Jew.
Ralph:
Thorazine. Look into it.
Arkius - It is just as I figured about you. Have much trouble handling the truth? It certainly appears so.
Ralph:
You haven't written anything that's true. You speculate and expect the readers to accept your inane claptrap as truth. Sorry, but I don't have any reason to believe a daydream moron.
This one will run and run and shows little sign of running out of puff even after 50 years. The only truth is that we will never know. A lone gunman? LHO is dead and only Ruby knows why he shot him and he is pushing up the daisies. Mafia conspiracy? The bond of silence that envelops that organisation will never let the 'truth' be known. Military or CIA conspiracy? Everybody would have far too much to lose and I don't see that 'conspiracy' finding its way to some 'peon' anytime soon. Rule number one; never put things like that in writing (or on tape!) Kennedy's death is simply another 'mystery' destined to become just another 'tag' to sell a book on just like 'the Princes in the Tower', the identity of Jack the Ripper, did the Pope collude with the Nazis in the persecution of the Jews, did Churchill order the assasination of Sikorski, was God an astronaut?
Without President John F. Kennedy's sheer brilliance in redirecting our world's Cold War energies in the direction of far more peaceful (and beneficial) pursuits (like the race to the Moon and the Peace Corps), the Cold War would very likely have had a far more tragic conclusion. He was a very courageous and brilliant man in many respects. God bless and keep you forever, President John F. Kennedy!
The Lords of the Wars, the Real terrorists Don't want Peace, they want War for made Profits ALL THE TIME, werever on the world, they created AlQuaida, for any reason anywere SELL GUNS, NRA is part of that complex
See we need to band single shot guns too, here was a man who got off 3 shots and killed the president. Maybe we should only have the right to have slingshots? Then again David killed Goliath with one of those hmm, rethinking the right to have anything that could be used as a means of killing. How is that for you gun grabbers, MCNBC and all the rest of you who wish that?
Why yes....I'd be all for banning anything used as a means of killing.......
But...wouldn't it be much easier to just stop killing? That way we wouldn't need ways to do it in the first place....
LynrydSky:
The Manilcher-Carcano rifle used in the assassination was a bold action, multi shot rifle from the WW2 era! Pity you would politicize an American tragedy. ESpecially since NOBODY is proposing gun grabbing!
The Mannlicher-Carcano is a bolt action rifle manufactured in Italy by Carcano using an Austrian style mannlicher clip. This is why the name is a German word and an Italian word. They are generally known as poorly manufactured, poorly firing rifles, or pieces of crap. Most fall under the heading of "never fired and only dropped once".
I also believe there was a second gunman. We all know about the "magic bullet" but the media has led us astray on that. We know the first shot hit JFK in the back, then supposedly exited his throat, going on to hit Gov. Connolly, breaking rib and wrist bones before lodging in his thigh! That bullet couldnt remain pristine.
WE know the 2nd shot missed and that bullet must have shattered. We know the 3rd shot killed JFK with the infamous head wound that we've all seen. That bullet wouldnt remain pristine. The question is how a pristine bullet was found in s stretcher outside the ER where JFK and Gov. Connolly were being treated! Where did that one come from? That is why I have always thought there was a 2nd gunman. Since all the records were sealed for 75 years, people will probly know the real truth after 2038!
PS. JFK was the youngest man ever ELECTED as POTUS. Teddy Roosevelt was a few months younger when he succeeded Pres. McKinley who was assassinated!
JFK did NOT order the Secret Service off his limo (agents ...
www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=xoHKRAKhdNY
I used to believe in a conspiracy, but years of research as proven to me that Oswald acted alone. Anyone who believes otehrwise has not done the research and is playing into the hands of a liberal media trying to squeeze more money our of a tragedy by spreading abselss propaganda.
Considering the RFK jr also believes his cousin Michael Skakel didn't murder Martha Moxley and has also tried to pin the murder on the innocent Ken Littleton also show to what lengths RFK jr will go to in order to shift the guilt to where it deservedly belongs.
Oswald acted alone. There is no doubt about that. He was a sociopath who didn't trust anyone. I stood where Ambraham Zapruder stood, it's about 20-25 feet away from the grassy knoll. If there was a gunman on the grassy knoll he would have seen him and heard the shot. Indeed, the film foootage ends right where the grassy knoll gunman would have stood, and gues what, NO ONE IS THERE! Zapruder only heard a sound coming from behind him, which would be the despository whereas the grassy knoll is to his right front.
If you belive in a conspiracy you're a fool, you're ignorant, and you insult the flag.
Explain the pristine bullet.
Tell us how you really feel!
Jango:
So, you used to believe in a conspiracy and don't anymore.
However, anyone who still believes as you once did is a fool, ignorant, insults the flag (whatever that means) and is being duped by the liberal media.
You really should notify your fellow Americans immediately when you change any belief so we can all change with you to avoid being fools.
50 years of mystery, yet today there's no doubt. All because you changed your mind, leaving the rest of us as fools. Well, be that as it may, there's certainly no mystery as to your overwhelming narrowminded arrogance.
Just a wild guess: You voted for Romney, right?
Warren commission was the coverup. It had to sound nice and neat for the flock of sheep to believe. I live in Michigan and I can tell you that many are disgusted because that idiot Ford was made a President as a reward to keep quiet about the political involvement in the behind the scenes power. Shame that corruption makes Gods of them all and they get away with murder easy.
Jango wrote -If you belive in a conspiracy you're a fool, you're ignorant, and you insult the flag.
There is a fool here all right, but it isn't the conspiracy theorists.
Tom:
There is no "pristine bullet". The bullet found on a stretcher at the hospital was flattened at the base and not in perfect, pristine condition. Why it was on the stretcher, I don't know. But it is not pristine.
Here is question I haven't thought of until now. Zapruder is on the grassy knoll filming the motorcade. Kennedy is passing in front of him and is shot. Many say shots came from the grassy knoll behind Zapruder. Now the question- A high powered rifle fired behind Zapruder, why didn't he flinch, jump, have a startled movement, stop filming, turn and look to where the shot came from, or do anything? The Zapruder film stays steady through the assassination, no startled movement or flinching or anything, just smooth filming until the car is gone. Watch it on Youtube. Tell me someone can fire a unexpected rifle shot behind you and you don't at least flinch enough to make the camera you are filming with move a little. There may have been more than one shooter, but one wasn't close to Zapruder.
Jango, what drug you used ?
Jango, you were right the first time. In other words, you were right until you found out you were wrong and then called yourself a fool, ignorant, and insulted the flag.
If you belive in
a conspiracyThe Warren Commission you're a fool, you're ignorant, and you insult the flag.I'm still wondering what he meant with his "insult the flag" comment.
How, exactly, does one insult a flag?
They had a very successful back-up plan and achieved their result. JFK Gone. And as in any other government Lie and Cover-Up, No one of any consequence was ever held responsible. Too Bad they don;t have the same plan NOW!
The reason they shot/killed the gunman after the assasination is because they didn't want the truth to come out. Everybody that was alive in those days, me, always knew there was more to it than was told. They need to leave it alone now, as most of his family is deceased. The one's alive now don't remember him, or the murder. So move on to something that you can do something about, that's going on in American now, that needs to be fixed now, or investigated now....just take care of what's going on NOW and forget the past. That's like trying to figure out the Lincoln shooting and if anyone else was involved. If there was another one, more than likely was, what are you all gonna do about it. They are probably dead anyway.
Dead is dead!!! We have more important things to worry about than the freaking Kennedy's!!!!!
Anyone who has no burning need to understand why a POTUS was murdered
also has no need for a 1st OR 2nd Amendment protection .
If you do not embrace JUSTICE you hold nothing for America .
There is NOTHING more important .
The death of JFK, though before my time, is an indicative keystone in the decline of America as a great nation. We'll never know the truth behind who benefitted from it. What is certain is that the shape of things that followed forever changed in the lives of Americans and American government. The investigation and Warren Commission report are a laughable joke. Even my children are convinced that they got it wrong.
The government lied to its citzens and entered a civil war it didn't belong in. The Vietnam war was not about North and South Vietnam; just as The Korean war was not about North and South Korea. Both of these conflicts which cost nearly 95,000 American lives were about proxy wars between The United States and The Soviet Union. American citizens would NEVER allow sacrifices such as that if they held the knowlege back then that Communisim doesn't have to be fought as an ideal. History has shown us that Communism often fails under it's own weight, China being the one exception.
We'll never know the truth about who benefitted from 9/11. I don't believe the government's version of events on several levels. The 9/11 report is a BLATANT whitewash that leaves several questions unanswered:
1)Of the singularly most televised tragedy in human history, whay are there a mere 3 still photgraphs of the crash into the Pentagon as evidence?
2) Why was Flight 93 originally reported as being shot down (an absolutely UNTHIKABLE act by our own military) and then ammended with a great story of doomed, desparate heroes? The fact that The plane's black box has never been released to the public (or any of them for that matter) is incredibly suspiscious (not unlike Kennedy's brain).
3) Why did the twin towers fall so quickly and symmetrically?
Everything happend so neat and precise on that day and now... here we are, in other wars for over ten years; our current president, who's foreign policy has The United States making friends with her enemies, whilst alienating most, if not all, of her allies.
It sickens me how everyone is praising Hillary Clinton for being so forthright about her responsibility in the attack on our embassy in Benghazi. It's ludicrous; it's like congratulating a drunk driver after she admits causing an accident. WHO ELSE is responsible? She is a FAILED stateswoman. This is another example of the government lying to the American people. I don't suppose it has occured to anyone in the State Department to look into the possibility that the people that killed our ambassador & his staff in Lybia are the SAME people that have seiged the gas plant in Algeria? (Oh, and the Obama administration still has yet to retaliate for that, bye the way.)
Jingo Jango - Just go away
I do wish that NBC News would get the facts listed correctly. The caption to the photo says that Kennedy was the youngest man ever to serve as President. That is patently not true. Teddy Roosevelt was the youngest man ever to serve as President. JFK was the youngest man ever elected President. TR was promoted into the presidential role when his President was assassinated.
Wow....Great Catch!
Age on Inaugural Day:
TR = 42 years, 10 months, 18 days
JFK = 43 years, 7 months, 22 days
Good Eye, Alice!
Bad Eye, Alice!
This is an AP article/pic.
Still, Good Eye, Alice, on the catch!
Peace
What has to be understood here, is that the same criminal minds BEHIND the assassination of JFK, are the same like-minded individuals, who are/have been running the affairs of the planet!! Call me a "conspiracy nut" all you want, I'm sticking to my guns on this one!!!
@rah13 Go ahead and tell us the name who it is.
I think if he told us, Mary, he'd have to hunt us down and kill us.
Some things are just best kept unsaid.
;-)
Hmmm.....
How can I get my face in front of the media?
Eureka! Uncle Jack!
You raise a good point. RFK junior has a very radical leftist agenda; he and his agenda do not get enough attention, from his point of view. So anything that raises his own profile is useful.
He would especially like it if the public loses confidence in the finding that President Kennedy was killed by a wacked-out communist sympathizer.
Also, why does not he not discuss the Palestinian Sirhan Sirhan who murdered his own father? Or is RFK junior also pro-Palestinian?
GRASSY KNOLL !
Ban initials ending with "K"
Follow the money, usually that is where the violence begins and ends. Even I knew at age 14 that JFK was murdered by more than one person. Our family had guns, were hunters, and shot targets. If we start banning guns, where will it end. There was a science fiction novel called "With Folded Hands" about being protected by robots, but it made a valid point. take away all dangerous things from humans, then lobotomize them to become content with their lot. Are we becoming those people? The military defense complex consumes more than half of the US government budget, but we target the poor, the sick and the old. I will never get over that anomaly.
Americans are lobotomized, we spend 48 Billion dollars each year on just the top 10 psychiatric drugs.
Most listed are not psychiatric drugs....
If RFK Jr. was not a Kennedy, no one would pay any attention to his prattle. His revelation that there was more than one person involved in the assassination of the Great President John F. Kennedy is hardly worth mentioning. MANY Americans already believe that, but we have no proof. RFK Jr., is an idiot and always has been. Running his mouth about every subject available with nothing but blather. No News Here. Move on. NOTE: Neither JFK, RFK, nor MLK's MURDERS were committed by Lunatic Right-Wingers' with Rapid Fire Assault weapons. Actually, just the OPPOSITE circumstances were evident. So, let's not make THESE events "poster childs" for the Governments assault on Gun Ownership, Okey Dokey boys and girls????
Don't know who to believe when it comes right down to it. I don't trust any of them. One thing I am sure of. RFK Jr. is a dik. Moderate, how do live in Madison? I thought all the loonies out there purged the city of people like you.
so keep watching MTV and seat a lot of beer...
Before my life on this earth is over, I wold like definitive answers to 2 questions: 1) who really killed JFK and 2) where is Jimmy Hoffa buried.
1) Jimmy Hoffa
2)That was the reason for the last moon landing.
There! Now I can write 2 best selling "conspiracy" books.
Isn't the quest, "Who shot JR?" more important? And Jimmy Hoffa isn't buried anywhere. He and Ambrose Bierce and Judge Crater and Elvis Presley are all guests at the Bates Motel.
LBJ and his Texas posse were behind it all. Sometime in the distant future , historians will have written the facts and as with all other past events like this, it will be called "history".
I recall back in the 60's those records were only sealed for 50 years, so they will be due for release this year.
I believe the sealing of records was for 100 years, same as some stuff from the Lincoln shooting.
We should Google to verity, but I'm pretty sure it was 100 years. We'll be pretty old when they're released. ;-)
NevadaJ...the Warren Report was initially sealed for 75 years, but in 1992 the government, through the JFK Records Act and the Freedom of Information Act released about 98% of the content, only excluding tax info. The remaining 2% will be released in 2017. In 1992, the HSCA findings were released in toto under the same acts. Sadly, 50,000 pages are still not released pending Nat'l Archivist's slow perusal to check for security and sensitivity concerns pertaining to the AARB investigation. All are supposed to be released by Dec 31, 2013, but don't hold your breath.