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Brian Blanco / Reuters
Gun shop customers shop for weapons as they listen to live streaming video of an announcement about gun control by U.S. President Barack Obama at the Bullet Hole gun shop in Sarasota, Fla., on Wednesday.
The shooting at an elementary school in Newtown, Conn., last month touched off a wave of gun buying -- and President Barack Obama's gun-control speech this week appears to have done little to slow it down.
Documents obtained by NBC News from the state of Connecticut through a Freedom of Information Act request show a spike in gun sales in the hours and days after the deaths of 20 schoolchildren and six staffers at Sandy Hook Elementary.
Interviews with gun store owners in four states after Obama's speech show that passion among buyers has not decreased over the month since Newtown; if anything, Obama's speech appeared to set off a new frenzy of buying, with some stores running low on guns.
“We were just swamped in here as soon as he got off the news,” manager Bill Loane of Pasadena Pawn & Gun in Maryland said of the reaction to Obama’s gun proposals. “People were just pouring through the door.”
As the first news was breaking in Connecticut a month ago, buyers were having the same reaction. Between 11 a.m. and noon Dec. 14, firearms retailers in the state were busy performing 105 background checks – nearly double the amount logged in the same lunchtime hour a week earlier.
A total of 725 background checks were performed that day, up from 585 a week before. The trend continued in the days ahead, resulting in a 55 percent week-over-week increase in checks.
Across the country, background checks were also surging: 900,000 more background checks were reported in December 2012 than in the same month of 2011. In total, over 3.1 million more background checks were recorded in 2012 than in 2011.
And the trend appeared to continue this week.
“My phone's been ringing off the hook this morning,” Loane said. “I got here 9:30 and it’s been nonstop.”
He said his store used to sell five or six AR-15-style rifles a month before the shooting in Newtown. He sold 55 in December. He sold 12 to 14 handguns on Wednesday and a half-dozen rifles.
Customers have been coming into Fairground Trader in Massachusetts looking for “anything and everything” since the Newtown school shooting, said store owner Tom Downey. Most of his inventory is sold out now, but his phone keeps ringing.
“I had a lot of phone calls yesterday looking for stuff I don’t have,” Downey said. “I’d say that people are on the phone just dialing every gun shop around asking questions.”
Joe Raedle / Getty Images file
A Bushmaster XM-15 .223-caliber rifle like this was used in the school massacre in Newtown, Conn. This style of rifle, modeled after the Colt AR-15, has been highly sought after since the attack, gun store owners say.
Sellers say they’ve had to turn away people looking to buy what has become a marquee item – the AR-15-style assault rifle.
The AR-15-style rifle, which is among the most popular firearm models in America, came to wider attention after Adam Lanza used one in Newtown. Fearing a ban, Loane said, his customers are paying unprecedented prices for the few guns still available.
“I just sold a lower model one the other day for $2,195 over the phone,” Loane said of a gun that a few months ago might have gone for about $1,200. “The guy had to have it. He didn’t even see the gun.”
David Stone said his Dong’s Sporting & Reloading Goods in Tulsa, Okla., was packed wall-to-wall all day on Wednesday. Stone said buyers barely paused during what he described as a “buying frenzy” to listen to the president speak over a local reporter’s iPhone.
“We’re having people call on the phone,” Stone said. “I’m the only store in Oklahoma from what customers are telling me that has AR-15s.”
Clive Courty said the racks at his GunFun Firearms store in Quincy, Ill., have been nearly fully cleared out over the last three weeks. He’s seen the largest surge in interest for “semi-auto, military-style looking” guns, he said.
“I’ve just got some basic rifles and shotguns and basically a handful of handguns, revolvers, a few semi-autos left,” Courty said. “Ammunition’s very low. I’ve got orders for just about everything, but don’t expect them.”
With distributors telling them they don’t know when supply will stabilize, some store owners say they may be in trouble if they don’t get more guns in stock soon.
“It’s a great thing for our business for the minute, but it’s really interrupted things,” Downey said. “It’s probably in the long term going to hurt me. If you don’t have anything to sell, the bills go on.”
President Obama promised to "put everything I've got" into passing a series of proposals intended to crack down on gun violence, as Republicans and the NRA are already signaling it will be an uphill battle for the administration. NBC's Peter Alexander reports.
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When Americans rise up and counterattack Mexico, the assault rifle with 30+round magazine will come in handy.
Obama's anti-Second Amendment rhetoric has done more to spur the economy than his porkulus package ever will.
You really think it was the anti-gun rhetoric? The surge in sales began the day after Newtown. The gun shop out by my sister's house had a line out the door the very next day.
So, how do you guys keep those guns safely and readily at any time?
Those are just too big to put anywhere on your body at all time. Sure you can lock it up, but it wouldn't be ready fast enough if something happen.
But Barry and Eric are making it more difficult by supplying them with our weapons.
Of course it would be nice if we have a well-regulated militia - like a standing army or a national guard....oh, wait a minute. WE DO!
The origin of the 2nd amendment has its roots in the government being able to raise a well-regulated militia to maintian the freedoms...against rebellion. Google...."Shay's Rebellion"
Cuong,
My pistol is at the ready. It is meant to tide me over till I can get to my AR in the safe. My pistol is stored safely because everyone in my house is sane and knows how and when to use it properly. My house has an alarm system to deter people from breaking in to steal the pistol when I am not at home.
TC
Everyone knew what the inevitable response from the "never let a good crisis go to waste" crowd was going to be.
i wish he would ban houses the building market could use a boost.
Yep. And all of the dopey, "feel-good", pinheaded knee-jerk legislation that would be coming down the pike. That's why I recently joined the NRA, and why everyone is stocking up.
Ahem........um........the Supreme Court disagrees with you, bud. Look up their 2008 ruling. So what you're saying is utter krap.
If I can find any 30 round magazines. I only ahave three. Perhaps we can get some back from Mexico.
The real beauty of all this polarization is we slip just a little bit more toward civil war each day. People know it and feel it. That is the real reason they are arming up. Obama and the liberals are just making things worse, and they know it.
Liberals have an aggresive communist agenda that only needs 1 thing to make it all happen for them. They need America to fail, then they can install what they want, laws, people, philosophy, controls and best of all, taxes to split up amongst themselves. So we will see much more policy coming down the road to make this happen.
Realistically most Americans are moderate. Most people who vote Republican in the general election vote that way because the Democrats repulse them with their communism.
And on the flip side most people in the general election who vote Democrat do so because Republicans repulse them with their garbage.
So we are left with polarizing politicians and a lost country. Its only a matter of time and time is running short.
I wonder if Putin and the Russians are going to cut us a break when it happens like we did for them in the early 1990's. I doubt it.
Militias are not national guard or a standing army. We weren't supposed to have a standing army in peacetime for more than a two year period...read the Constitution (Article 1 Section 8). We also weren't supposed to nationalize the militias. "Well regulated' meant trained, cooridinated, and armed. It didn't mean "regulated" in the modern sense of the word...read the Founders on the subject (not some blog that claims to have read them for you).
And as a very pro-gun rights libertarian, I'm about tired of the Mexicanphobes. You aren't being invaded by a foreign military. The immigration laws are anti-free market and anti-unalienable (not separable, transfertable, and not subject to law or border) individual rights (in this case, to movement). If they trespass on private property that's one thing. But if they do not, them coming here in violation of an unjust and anti-free market law is fine...it's called civil disobedience. The only people that should be kept out are those with pandemic disease or that are criminals (like terrorists for example). Anything else subverts the market regulating the labor supply, and is government regulation.
And immigrants commit crimes at vastly lower rates than native-born citizens, BTW.
"The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson
What a bunch of nut sacks, especially jerry. You sound like a spew directly from Flush Lardball's backside.
So...tell me...what are you going to do with that arsenal? start a revolution against the government?
You will be gone in less than a blink of an eye if you go against our armed forces!!!!
PFFT!!!! The NRA is benefitting from your stupidity!!!!!!
Keep making them rich. while you struggle to pay your bills!!!!!!
I'll bet the Chicago gang bangers who turned in their guns for a gift card are kicking themselves.
The beauty of the second amendment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it.
THE BEST PROPAGANDA MACHINE FROM THE NRA EVER...
KEEP ON BELIEVING THAT JEFFERSON MEANT FOR ANY A******E to have weapons of WAR AVAILABLE TO KILL CHILDREN.
Sorry you don't see it grouchee ole retard. Probably cause youre a wingnut yourself. Maybe a beneficiary of the state?
Liberals have an aggresive communist agenda that only needs 1 thing to make it all happen for them.
When you can not think or read, you fight.........Keep looking for conspirancy theories. FOX NEWS, THE GOP AND NRA THANK YOU FROM THE BOTTOM OF THEIR
P O C K E T S...THEY ARE CRYING WITH YOU ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK!!!!!!! YOU WILL BE LEFT OUT AT THE DOOR LIKE TRASH
The greatest example of American psychosis ever. Buying guns not to protect yourself, but just to stockpile them out of irrational fear. Can't wait for these surplus guns to end up in the hands of criminals in a few years when all these "law abiding" citizens start selling all the guns that they never needed to whomever they can find to buy them at gun shows with no background checks.
Sorry you don't see it grouchee ole retard
tHANKFULLY THIS GROUCHY OLE RETARD WILL KEEP THE MONEY AND THE GUNS THAT ALREADY HAS, WITHOUT THE NEED OF GETTING AN ARSENAL...
pffft!! GO BACK TO YOUR TRAILER AND DRINK YOUR MOONSHINE FOR BREAKFAST!!!!
The pathetic insecure sheep.
We ALL stand neck deep in our unique american freedom, and the insecure sheep are scared.
What a bunch of idiots.
Irespond - realize that countries rarely flatten themselves in times of revolution. There just isnt much to rule once your infrastructure has been obliterated.
Start? No. Repel tyranny of the govt? Yes.
And I hate to tell you what you should already know...but the military will at least half support our side. They will either defect to the patriot cause in such a war, and bring with them all their planes, bombs, and tanks, or they will stay neutral while the patriots go to war with the half of police (or less) that attempt to impose state tyranny upon us (like what happeneded in Egypt).
The entire purpose behind the 2nd Amendment was to repel tyrannical govt if the mere existence of an armed populace didn't deter it from becoming tyrannical to begin with. That's not propaganda, that's the real history if you both to read it and not just some blog that claims to have read it for you.
I think your assumption the military are a bunch of tyranny imposing stooges is just your own wishful thinking.
For all those saying that this isn't intended to take guns away should know there was a state bill introduced in Hawaii, Obama's childhood home and adored by the left wing sheeple of this state, that does just that. Takes guns away or makes you a criminal.
In part Sb Bill 219 states:
@ IRESPOND:
Oh? What makes you say that? Even if the military could do what you say, would they want to? History, if you care to look it up, has HUNDEREDS of examples where a huge military of a superpower have had their a$sses handed to them by a rebelling civilian population. Ever hear of guerrilla warfare? Vietnam? AFGHANISTAN? IRAQ????????
Jefferson DID have weapons that COULD have killed children. Yes, they were around back then. You've heard of MIUSKETS, no????????
Keep making them rich. while you struggle to pay your bills!!!!!!
Oh okay. Thanks for saying I have the freedom of spending my EARNED money as I see fit. And I pay my bills just fine, thank you. On time, EVERY TIME. You libs should try it some time. Along with being productive. You might like it, who knows?
Chew on that, will you? And, have a great day. Gotta go do this thing called EARNING a PAYCHECK, Irrespond.
I should have gotten my semi-auto before Mario Mussolini and Barrack Hitler went over the cuckoo's nest. Thank God there are some elected officials out there that will stand up to the tyranny of the government and uphold their oath to the Constitution. Although I do agree with background checks I do not believe in banning guns of any kind. Owning guns powerful enough to shed the yolk of tyranny are a RIGHT our forefathers gave us to ensure our perpetual freedom. Please get back to the important issue at hand, the $16+ trillion debt. When the @!$%# hits the fan and the US collapses under the weight of un-payable debt firearms will be worth their weight in gold.
Thank God I can trust that none of you members will fly off the handle.
Not anyone, any non-criminal.
BTW...they legally owned canons privately back then. "Arms" in the 2nd Amendment didn't mean just guns. The intention as for the populace to have any arms the army would have...because the Constitution says there is to be no standing army EVER for more than two years in peacetime (even now it says this, it was never Amended to change it, and we illegally keep a standing army form ore than two years of peace time, or illegally enter into wars without explicit and specific Declaration not in our direct self defense in order to keep a perpetual state of war).
And Jefferson was for open armed rebellion every 20 years at most. And if that armed rebellion failed, he expected the rebels to be pardoned. Read your history.
This is Jefferson talking about Shays Rebellion, where the people rose up armed against the militias and the law...because they were unpaid veterans of the war whose money was not forthcoming from the govt, but the govt gave the banks the full ability to sieze the lands of these vets of the Revolution and for the tax collectors to foreclose on properties of the vets to pay property taxes acrued during the Revolution...it was the first bank bailout in our history:
And:
You were saying, oh resident Jefferson expert?
Lib in Oklahoma - The constitution is framed AGAINST the government, not for the government. Notice the first 10 amendments are things the government can't do. Not things that help the government perform tasks.
Keep making them rich. while you struggle to pay your bills!!!!!!
Irespond; What I find funny about this comment, that you so concerned about gun buyers paying their bills, maybe our government should take lessons from you, since your president put us another 7 Trillion dollars in debt just in his first 4 years. I'm guessing another 7-10 Trillion by time he's finished with this next tour.
Funny how reading this story, all the president did was put more assault weapons on the streets of America. I'm not against someone owning assault weapons, as long as there trained in using it. But i guess figuring his first four years in office he did zero for the American people, oh wait only the rich bankers who got their fat bonus checks when he bailed out the banks, so he figured throwing this ban out was something he could chock up on his resume.
We're more like waste deep in freedom and the rest is neck deep in the USA PATRIOT Act. NDAA, FISA, etc. Tyranny is closing in and has been slowly doing so since the day the nation was founded...and the Founders knew full well this was the natural course of government. It always becomes tyrannical and needs a revolution to reset (I hope we can have an intellectual and philosophical revolution, instead of the violent one they foresaw). Whether or not we do hit reset (by establishing a new minarchy) when it is overthrown next time (hopefuly not in any of our lifetimes) is a matter of modern debate the Founders didn't have. They believed government (the state) was a "necessary evil". Some people today point out if it is evil we should be focusing on making it unnecessary as much as possible (which none of the government money is spent doing).
The sad part is too many of you have forgotten the "necessary" and "evil" aspects, and now believe the government to be desirable and beneficient. The classical liberal Founders (both the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Parties) would be astounded and ashamed of you guys for that foolish belief.
Irespond
Wow another well thought out responds. You are making an assumption that those in the military agree with your position. I am not sure that is a fact.
I do not own a gun nor do I belong to the NRA but I do understand that if any of the Bill of Right Amendments are ignored or stepped on then they all will be. Which of the Bill of Right Amendments would you like to see go? The founding fathers new that these rights belong to the people and are guaranteed by a power greater than the government and the government could not infringe on them. That is the beauty of the constitution.
You can amend the constitution knock yourself out.
irespond do you really think the u.s.military would fire upon u.s.citizens if they refuse to be subjegated?you need to read the 29 palms survey,where that question was asked to MARINE staff ncos and officers .the answers might surprise you.
The bigger question is, how come the moral people who SUPPORT OUR TROOPS NOW WANT TO DO BATTLE WITH THEM? Gandhi defeated the English empire without a single gun. The people of Russia defeated the old commie party without a single gun. The Russian troops refused to shoot their own people, unlike china. So tell me all you troops supporters. Do you think our troops will shoot at us, like they did in Kent state university? or will they do like china and run us over??? Why Do you think they did their best and succeeded in making you turn against the occupy wall street guys? ya know why? Cause unity is power. they don't want us unified.
@freedom over sympathy. if you hate the American gov. so much, then just leave, bye bye. cya. All you right wingers support the troops and want to overthrow America. We should have let you have your damn south and build a @#$%%^ Wall.
Those spouting off that the second amendment was only intended to allow the US to raise a fighting force for national defense do not have a clue what they are talking about. One very clearly stated purpose of the second amendment, if you bother to read the writings of the authors on the subject, was to prevent the government from becoming tyrannical. The idea that every person had the right to bear arms was to prevent the government from confiscating weapons as a means to oppress and control the people. People were given the right to bear arms in order to give them the means to fight the government should it ever become tyrannical. This logic is one of the reasons why many people say that an assault weapons ban is unconstitutional. An assault weapons ban would essentially mean that the government was allowed to have more powerful weapons than the citizens, which is an anathema to one of the stated purposes of the second amendment. This ban would create an imbalance of power in favor of the government that would serve to prevent the citizens from rising up against an unjust and tyrannical government. While I do not anticipate an armed rebellion or think that one is warranted, I understand the complete purpose of the second amendment and feel that its spirit should be maintained in current laws. In the last decade we have lost far too many of our rights and the situation is only getting worse. Many laws that have been passed in the last ten years have been highly questionable from a constitutional standpoint and unfortunately we have a Supreme Court that has done little to stem this tide.
YeeeeHawwww, oh naive one.
why don't you hang a big sign on your lawn stating that your house is a "Gun Free Zone"?
So patriotic and brave!!! I NEVER asked a stupid republican for ANYTHING!!!! AND yes! i EARN MY MONEY..IT WILL BE THERE FOR ME IN CASE OF A CATHA STROPHE, INSTEAD OF THE NRA POCKETS...
I WILL NOT COME BACK WITH MY TAIL BETWEEN MY LEGS ASKING FOR HELP TO THE GOVERNMENT
JUST LIKE CHRIS CHRISTIE...SO 'MACHO' BEFORE HE NEEDED HELP!!
Gun nut teahadist on the loose and lost their minds(pardon the exaggeration,added for humor only)!
You have it backwards, my friend. Armed patriots want to KEEP their country theirs and prevent it from being taken over by the domestic enemies of the Constitution. There are elements among us who burn the flag, mock our heritage and work to undermine our sovereignty and security. These things have been done for decades by the leftist subversives, NOT by constitutional conservatives. You have a lot to learn, but you need to turn off MSNBC, Chris Mathews and Ed Shultz to get the truth.
Perhaps this will happen, and there would DEFINATELY have to be a wall to keep out the parasites trying to live off other people's work. Once the working people cut-off the leftist leeches, your funds would dry up. You would be left with no industry, no jobs, and millions of impoverished dependents. The conservative side would flourish with low taxes, greater freedoms, and would be an industrial powerhouse.
BTW, I am liberal in the sense I believe in liberty and freedom, and I am NOT a neo-communist "progressive".
I keep wondering if the politicians on the Left have stock in firearm manufacturing companies or own a few gun stores. I can't for the life of me believe that these elected officials are so stupid as to believe they can pass any legislation, outside of a Constitutional amendment, that will infringe on the right of the people to keep and bear arms?
Here's what the mentally challenged on the Left do not appear to understand. We are only a very short period of time removed from when the Constitution was ratified. 225 years may seem like a very long time to those that think that the entire universe revolves around them but it's not. Heck we've only had mass produced automobiles and had commercial air travel for around a 100 years, penicillin for 70 years, and personal computers for around 30 years. You must think because we've had all these advancements in technology that we are somehow much more evolved homo sapiens. That somehow they and their elected officials, especially on the Left, are so much more enlightened that the rights of the Constitution have no place in today's "modern" world. That the Framers were just a bunch of old guys who didn't even have smart phones way back then. FYI, there has never been, in the entire history of mankind, an assembly of great minds and geniuses as their was at the Constitutional Convention in 1787. Our elected morons of today couldn't hold the jockstrap of the least of these individuals.
@JS IN SD - regarding your post 1.37, luckily my coffee had cooled or it would have burned my sinus cavity as it was expelled through my nose. So all our citizens need assault weapons to level the fighting field with the forces of tyranny. You might want to think that over some before a tank takes a bead on your humble abode. Likewise if a fighter-jet has you in its cross hairs. Good luck with that level field, pardner! You so funny!
Amused...Ask the Syrian Government how that is working out for them with their tanks and fighter jets.
They are losing.
good god. You people seriously need to unwrap your tinfoil hats, they're too tight and cutting off the circulation to your brain...
For instance, I don't like Republicans, I think they're policies, specifically economically and foreign policy wise are bad for the country. But I DON'T think they're some super-secret fascist world-conspiracy clandestinely plotting to overthrow our democratically elected government and install a grand-old dictatorship run by cloned Hitler.
Get a freaking grip people...
newsflash, the government already DOES have weapons more powerful than the citizenry. Many, many, MANY times more powerful.
And the idea of fighting off the US military with handguns and even AR-15's is laughable for two reasons:
First, you wouldn't stand a chance, period, end of discussion.
Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, we already have the largest, most powerful, and most well-funded "militia" the world has even seen. It's called the United States Army (and Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, and Marines). These units are all-volunteer, and consist of our family, friends, and neighbors. Do you honestly expect them to side with some dictatorial usurper and march down Main Street, USA to imprison or execute they're own community?
The NRA is a lobbyist group for gun manufacturers. That's it, nothing more, nothing less.
You're doing exactly what the NWO wants Mr President.......keep them divided.
All you lib's need to get it straight... Thomas Jefferson (see avatar) did indeed fear government. Hence the Second Amendment, which protects the entire Bill of Rights! Our current Liberal 'leaders' and all there supporters, reeaaallllly need to study his historical quotes, as well as many other quotes from other Founding Fathers.
Isn't it funny?
We have a president who can't stimulate the economy, has created more debt than any president before him and has divided our great Republic more than anyone since LBJ.
But every time he opens his mouth, gun sales skyrocket.
This is NOT what real leadership is. This is coercion. This man has managed to create more anger, fear and resentment among the American people than any president, EVER!
When you try to lead by creating fear and uncertainty only the weak will surrender. This is what Liberals/Progressives do.
We real Americans refuse to submit to threats and division. We will strengthen and arm ourselves so the statist and his useful idiots understand that America is bigger and better than Barrack Hussein.
It's a shame that the alleged leader of the greatest nation in history will leave as his legacy a nation more armed in fear of the government that is supposed to protect it. The Founder's and Framer's would weep.
Hope and Change has been replaced with Ropes and Chains driven by chaos and anger from Barrack Hussein. Our Republic will survive, unfortunately our children and their children will have to bear the weight of this horrible presidency.
God Bless and save America.
I love my assault soooooooooooooooo much that some times when I fondle it I get a boehner!
@JimSpence, you hit the nail on the head, Barry has managed to divide this country like no other President in modern history. He only seeks divisive, totalitarian methods in order get what he wants, which includes trampling on the constitution. He should be impeached!
Divisive. The word you are looking for Jim is divisive.
BO will go down in history as the most divisive POTUS to date by a large margin. Of this there is no doubt.
DrowningGrover
And yet you Libbies willingly submit to the coercion of a government who is mandated to protect the Constitution, not usurp it.
Imagine what the result of the Revolution would have been if the colonists had bows and arrows or axes against British muskets and cannons. Yet you want to cower and submit more of your arms.
I have never seen an individuals car taken to court after running over someone.
I have never seen a fork taken to court after an obese person dies because of his diet.
But for some reason many are deluded to blame an inanimate gun with a crime.
This is not just ignorance, it's histrionics.
LibinOklahoma--suck a fat dick you pompus idiot, you're way off track in that statement!! The point of a militia is to beat down the tyranical government when it decides to enslave its citizens.
Lib in OK..."militia"? Here is a little education for you:
American Usage and Style: The Consensus. Here's what he has to say:
[Copperud:] "The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb 'shall'). The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for maintaining a militia.
"In reply to your numbered questions:
[Schulman:] "(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?"
[Copperud:] "(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people."
[Schulman:] "(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right 'shall not be infringed'?"
[Copperud:] "(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia."
[Schulman:] "(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed' null and void?"
[Copperud:] "(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence."
[Schulman:] "(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place conditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?"
[Copperud:] "(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia."
[Schulman:] "(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated militia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,' 'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?"
[Copperud:] "(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior authority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military."
[Schulman:] "(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200 years ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated."
[Copperud:] "To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: "Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'
[Schulman:] "As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,
"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.'
"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,
"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?; and
"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people to keep and read Books' only to 'a well-educated electorate' — for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?"
[Copperud:] "(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.
"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation."
Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his cover letter: "With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach any conclusion."
Read more here: http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm
Lib in OK..."militia"? Here is a little education for you:
American Usage and Style: The Consensus. Here's what he has to say:
[Copperud:] "The words 'A well-regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,' contrary to the interpretation cited in your letter of July 26, 1991, constitutes a present participle, rather than a clause. It is used as an adjective, modifying 'militia,' which is followed by the main clause of the sentence (subject 'the right', verb 'shall'). The right to keep and bear arms is asserted as an essential for maintaining a militia.
"In reply to your numbered questions:
[Schulman:] "(1) Can the sentence be interpreted to grant the right to keep and bear arms solely to 'a well-regulated militia'?"
[Copperud:] "(1) The sentence does not restrict the right to keep and bear arms, nor does it state or imply possession of the right elsewhere or by others than the people; it simply makes a positive statement with respect to a right of the people."
[Schulman:] "(2) Is 'the right of the people to keep and bear arms' granted by the words of the Second Amendment, or does the Second Amendment assume a preexisting right of the people to keep and bear arms, and merely state that such right 'shall not be infringed'?"
[Copperud:] "(2) The right is not granted by the amendment; its existence is assumed. The thrust of the sentence is that the right shall be preserved inviolate for the sake of ensuring a militia."
[Schulman:] "(3) Is the right of the people to keep and bear arms conditioned upon whether or not a well regulated militia, is, in fact necessary to the security of a free State, and if that condition is not existing, is the statement 'the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed' null and void?"
[Copperud:] "(3) No such condition is expressed or implied. The right to keep and bear arms is not said by the amendment to depend on the existence of a militia. No condition is stated or implied as to the relation of the right to keep and bear arms and to the necessity of a well-regulated militia as a requisite to the security of a free state. The right to keep and bear arms is deemed unconditional by the entire sentence."
[Schulman:] "(4) Does the clause 'A well-regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,' grant a right to the government to place conditions on the 'right of the people to keep and bear arms,' or is such right deemed unconditional by the meaning of the entire sentence?"
[Copperud:] "(4) The right is assumed to exist and to be unconditional, as previously stated. It is invoked here specifically for the sake of the militia."
[Schulman:] "(5) Which of the following does the phrase 'well-regulated militia' mean: 'well-equipped', 'well-organized,' 'well-drilled,' 'well-educated,' or 'subject to regulations of a superior authority'?"
[Copperud:] "(5) The phrase means 'subject to regulations of a superior authority;' this accords with the desire of the writers for civilian control over the military."
[Schulman:] "(6) (If at all possible, I would ask you to take account the changed meanings of words, or usage, since that sentence was written 200 years ago, but not take into account historical interpretations of the intents of the authors, unless those issues can be clearly separated."
[Copperud:] "To the best of my knowledge, there has been no change in the meaning of words or in usage that would affect the meaning of the amendment. If it were written today, it might be put: "Since a well-regulated militia is necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be abridged.'
[Schulman:] "As a 'scientific control' on this analysis, I would also appreciate it if you could compare your analysis of the text of the Second Amendment to the following sentence,
"A well-schooled electorate, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read Books, shall not be infringed.'
"My questions for the usage analysis of this sentence would be,
"(1) Is the grammatical structure and usage of this sentence and the way the words modify each other, identical to the Second Amendment's sentence?; and
"(2) Could this sentence be interpreted to restrict 'the right of the people to keep and read Books' only to 'a well-educated electorate' — for example, registered voters with a high-school diploma?"
[Copperud:] "(1) Your 'scientific control' sentence precisely parallels the amendment in grammatical structure.
"(2) There is nothing in your sentence that either indicates or implies the possibility of a restricted interpretation."
Professor Copperud had only one additional comment, which he placed in his cover letter: "With well-known human curiosity, I made some speculative efforts to decide how the material might be used, but was unable to reach any conclusion."
Read more here: http://constitution.org/2ll/schol/2amd_grammar.htm
The meaning of "Well Regulated".
To Liberal: To control or direct according to rule, principle, or law.
To a Patriot:
To adjust to a particular specification or requirement.
To adjust (a mechanism) for accurate and proper functioning.
To put or maintain in order.
To keep up with.
Defend the 2nd Amendment to the fullest extent!
If the founding fathers had been able to foresee what was in store for America, the 2nd Amendment might have been worded differently. How were they to know we were going to turn into a country of meth-heads, crackheads, heroin addicts, serial killers, serial rapists, pedophiles, gang members, school shooters and people that think robbing convenience stores is skilled labor? If they knew, they may have added one more line to the 2nd Amendment: "Since you are solely responsible for your own personal protection (the police are here to write traffic tickets and count bodies), if you cannot afford a gun, one will be provided for you at no cost".
IRESPOND - I am active duty in a combat mos for the USMC who saw 5 very bloody deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan and let me reassure you plainly and clearly:
ALMOST ALL THE MEMBERS OF MY UNIT WOULD SIDE WITH THE PRO 2nd AMENDMENT FORCES IF THERE EVER WERE A CIVIL WAR OR ARMED CONFLICT AGAINST US CITIZENS.
Are you clear? Good.
It doesn't help your case when you misquote Jefferson.
And the one thing I've found among gun enthusiasts is they don't check their facts.
Yet they keep spouting these misquotes as some kind of proof.
And it helps make you less and less credible.
http://www.monticello.org/site/jefferson/spurious-quotations
Too bad our founders didn't have something to say about extremist gun nuts. Oh wait! They did!
Get your facts straight. Then can talk about what makes sense.
@ riley-179556,
Thank you for your service and Patriotism. It's good to know the nations finest pursue Justice to the Constitution!
who's "usurping" the Constitution?
The sheer paranoid delusion and unbalance hysteria coming from some of the people in this nation is downright scary. They honestly believe Obama is some tyrannical dictator bent on destroying this country, nevermind that he was just democratically re-elected in a near landslide victory only two months ago...
I suppose it hasn't occurred to you then that if "almost all of the members of your unit" would side with the people (or citizens) of this country in fighting off a tyrannical dictator, then your fear of a fascist usurper declaring war on the citizens of this nation and unleashing the army on them are pretty unfounded, no?
Cuong: I have a pistol I keep safely holstered. It has an extremely bright tactical flashlight attachment (with strobe mode) and a red laser sight.
In the event of a home invasion, that will keep me safe until I can get to the gunsafe (which is going to be moved in the near future into a small room I'm turning into a safe room--including walls reinforced with plywood boards filled with 1/2" of pea gravel & sand--bullet resistant) Once I am in the safe room, I could retrieve either the Mossberg 500 12-gauge shotgun or the AR15.
If the home invasion takes place at night, the intruder(s) are especially screwed. I'd kill the main breaker (located a few feet from the safe room), lock the safe room, and then come out wearing AN-NVS-7 night vision goggles and carrying the AR15. The AR15 is equipped with EoTech 552 night vision-compatible holographic sights, an EoTech G3 3X scope (I would thumb-flip it to the side in close quarters combat), and a corner sight (which allows you to hold a gun away from you and sight things perpendicular to the gun--meaning I could shoot an intruder around a corner without exposing my face or torso).
It also has an Israeli-made combination forward handgrip and pivoting bipod (opens down the middle by pressing a button) and a pressure pad on the handgrip for my left thumb that turns on a massively bright Xenon tactical flashlight. It also has on the Piccatiny rail attached to the forward iron sight, a red laser sight.
@ SprDg... You poor liberal soul. You really do have the wool pulled over your eyes.
All I have to say to this article is, 'Well, who cares?'
Seriously, it is like buying old light bulbs. At some point, they'll all break and become useless. If you want to resell them illegally, then you run the risk of ending up in jail. Maybe you want to give them away, in which case, whooo hooo! Merry Christmas (or Ramadan, rather, because it'll look like an Iraqi celebration).
I'm fine with the gun restriction on assault rifles. What I'm not fine with is the Democrats thinking they aren't as exactly stupid as the Republicans they profess to hate. Because what the Democrats want is kids being stabbed instead of shot. A Democrat is totally fine with killing one kid, because it was done with a knife.
What Democrats don't want to deal with is restricting the rights of the mentally ill who are dangerous to themselves and others. They think it ends with background checks and enforcement. If you are going to take away the right to use assault rifles (which, by the way, really isn't a big deal if you actually know how to use f**king weapons), you also take away the rights of those who would use any weapon to cause harm.
But the Democrats don't want to deal with that because they whore themselves out to the health care industry like the Republicans whore themselves out to the NRA. Democrats just prefer to actually kill kids in different ways, is all, and it shows since they only want to deal with one side of the problem.
ATTENTION NBCNEWS! QUIT PUSHING YOUR BS AGENDA...
That rifle was found in the attacker's car, it was not USED!
JimSpence - Bravo, what a well written post. Its sad at the polarization our current leader has caused. United we Stand - Divided we Fall .... and all he does is divide on any level possible.
Would you like to Know the Irony President Obama?
I've been a gun owner for years but never felt the necessity to join the NRA.
I knew the NRA does tons of wonderful things like all the safety training classes, they run all the Collegiate shooting competitions, they do tons of training and training trainers for the Police and Military etc., scholarships, contests for children to earn money for school, there Eddie Eagle program to teach k- 4th graders very simple gun safety and what to do if they run across a gun;
If you see a gun:
STOP!
Don't Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.
but I never felt those were compelling enough reasons to join the NRA.
Then Sandy hook happened and the Left Immediately starts using the tragedy to Push their Agenda even before the families had a chance to Mourn.
They tried pushing gun control after the Ft. Hood Massacre, Gabriel Giffords, and Aurora, but they just couldn’t get enough support. I wouldn’t dare say that the timing, around election times, would have had anything to do with them not being able to get any support.
Dianne Feinstein Publicly stated they had been working on Gun Control Legislation for over a year. I’m sure it was a lot longer than that, lets say after the assault weapons ban expired in 2004.
They were just waiting for the Right “Crisis” to come along.
Even after Sandy hook I may not have felt the Need to Join the NRA, If it wasn’t for you Obama, Democrats and the Left.
The first thing you did was Jin up the Hysteria President Obama.
Your left wing pundits and liberal media started demanding that the Second Amendment be repealed. We need to confiscate all guns. We need to force everyone to register all guns and make it a Federal Crime if they don’t and if they refuse throw them in Jail. We need to declare the NRA and other pro gun group’s terrorist organizations and designate all their members’ terrorists, and so much more.
The Irony is I joined the NRA and my States gun rights organization, not because I originally Felt the need to, but because of your radical Far Left rhetoric, pundits and Liberal Media convinced me that if I didn’t step up and raise my voice and say no, now and forever more, along with millions of others, we may lose a basic right we have always had since the founding of this Great Nation, the ability to defend ourselves and protect our families.
"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."- Benjamin Franklin
Sincerely; New NRA Member.
P.S. don’t forget Saturday January 19th is Gun Appreciation Day. Don’t forget to go to your local gun shop, shooting range, etc and show your support for the fight to protect your rights and the Second Amendment.
The five worst mass killings have a common thread. Hint #1: they don't belong to the NRA.
Ft Hood~~~ Registered Democrat ~ Muslim
Columbine ~~~ Too young to vote; both families were registered Democrats and progressive liberals
Virginia Tech ~~~ Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff ~ Registered Democrat
... Colorado Theater ~~~ Registered Democrat; staff worker on the Obama campaign; Occupy Wall Street participant; progressive liberal
Connecticut School Shooter- ~~~ Registered Democrat; hated Christians.
Common thread is that all of these shooters were progressive liberal Democrats.
Also, of the worst killings in the last several decades, only one was a female, all the rest were boys, barely men, and none of them had a strong male father or role model in the household. Their role models were rappers, action movies, comics and viloent video games.
Our problem isn't weapons, it's boys without boundaries. Who live in 'progressive' households.
Truetexan,
But, but, but all the libs said that NRA members are nuts. They must be right because they are liberals, they are all knowing.
The 2nd amendment was added for southern slave owners so that it would be easier to raise state militias when the slaves revolted. It even says "states" instead of "United States".
If you told Jefferson that his slaves had the right to bear arms so that they could revolt against his government, he would have shot you on the spot.
@miklkit, I see you are another uneducated, sheeple... Here is just one of many Jefferson quotes that rebuts your selective interpretation:
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government".
Interesting to see this play out. Reminds me of the Y2K experience where people panicked and went around buying up survival materials by the dozens, which proved completely unnecessary. What are these ignorant, egotistical gun enthusiasts, who are going into a frenzy investing large sums of money making gun manufacturers rich, going to do with them? Go on rampages, shooting everybody?; or just dust them off once in awhile and put them back in the closet, and gloat to their friends how big their gun collections are. Makes no sense to me.
Miklmik ... wowsers, thats all I can say ... wowsers. Reading .... Its not just for me.
@monzzie-600, I myself can't see paying the outrageous price or waiting on the list for one (SEMI automatic assault rifle) . However, the beauty of it is that they are FREE to do so! And they will be ready for the next attack on there God given right!
Reading these post are depressing. I read lots of fear and adrenaline. Also read a lot of arrogance and braggadocios comments, sure attempts at hiding insecurity.
As a vet (5th generation back to the Revolutionary War), if you really want to use these guns, JOIN THE MILITARY (aka "Militia" for you Constitutional hounds....)! They will pay you (not much, but better than nothing) to play with these, even get to shoot 'em now and then! Really.
If you need these to hunt, you are in serious trouble. You should not be hunting if you need a 30 round clip....just saying.
If some of you really think our government is tyrannical and our number one threat...guess what? Your pea shooter semi auto won't do a heck of a lot against drones, Abram tanks, etc. Your just being silly if you really stop to think about it.
On the other hand, you crazy sh*ts don't think....you react...again...out of a heightened sense of fear and anxiety that is fed to you 24/7 by FOX, Limbaugh, and articles like these from the "liberal" press, NBC.
I find it interesting (and disturbing) how many of you combine God" with your "rights" to high powered weaponry. A total fabrication of fear combined with a 4th grade level of religious fanaticism. I suppose your image of Jesus is that of Rambo.
Again, these comments tell me this country, polarized and full of anger, fear and hate, is in its waning days. We don't deserve to have a country when I read the outrageous comments that have no redeeming values for our fellow human being or "the common good" of all people, not just the NRA.
If I had the resources, I would move to a safer country with more sane values than a right to own these military weapons. The ONLY place these weapons have any business being is within our military bases.....period.
Three things:
1) Edward Bernays and the advertising industry sure did see you rubes coming a mile away. There is absolutely nothing like the power of fear, fear of the "spooky other" that will sneak in the middle of night and scream "OOGIE BOOGIE!!," to make masses of people act really sheepishly and overreact. Forget that nearly all of the so-called civilized world have already banned or restricted gun ownership to some degree and no Hypothetical Hitlers have risen there to make their citizenry slaves; no, we Americans are different; we're born in a ambiotic fluid filled with hate, anxiousness, and constant fear.
2) Also its damned funny how many people are convinced that the 2nd Amendment was meant for the individual citizen to take down "tyrannical government" every 20 years or so to defend against being enslaved. Funny because in the 18th Century American police state built on SLAVERY the right to bear arms was already prohibited for large sections of the population; i.e. African slaves. In fact, it has already been shown that the 2nd Amendment was in part ratified with the notion of protecting southern states' right to assemble slave patrols specifically designed to confiscate guns from black slaves. Funny how that song gets replayed in our history, because the only citizens' right to bear arms which has always been consistently held up as an American norm throughout our history is that of white male citizens.
3) But seriously... and think hard about this one... if it is as you say that the 2nd Amendment was designed to be a duty of the average citizen to decide when its duly-elected representative government has turned fascist or socialist (neither of which existed at the time of the Constitution signing, I might add) or some other distinct way undesirable for those citizen political science scholars who can't find Mali on a map if you pointed out the continent of Africa for them, why aren't you guys naming yourselves "King Obama" actually going full Waco and sparking some standoffs against the government you hate so much. Come on, if Obama's such a tyrant that must be stopped at all costs WTF are you weekend warriors waiting for? That drone strike which will be called to level your compound is gonna knock you on your azzes before you get you guns cleaned out anyways, so you wont even see the end coming, but don't let that stop you wannabe William Wallaces from getting "yas freedom" so why the talkee and none the doeee? Please go all Timothy McVey so we can start weeding some of you tresonous rubes out the general population - that is what we're talking about, commiting treason against the United States - otherwise STFU and quit dreaming you're in the middle of some Red Dawn senario.
@citizen of the world... No, I don't need one to hunt, but if I wanted to I would, especially for wild hogs, perhaps. The government will grow more and more as it has for the past two centuries, and will become more tyrannical, and yes the government can crush any opponents that only own semi-autos, but to not have them is to allow for a government who has no fear of the people, and that is when you will have TYRANNY! You need to think further than the length of your arm.
What?! Where do you get "God-given right"? God has never been interested in U.S. politics. Ridiculous.
"Free", no. INSANITY is more like it.
@mozzie-600, the Bill of Rights is what I am speaking of. And there would be no Bill of Rights without the Second Amendment.
mozzie-600
Mozzie - Whether or not there even IS a god is beside the point. The point is that the idea that free men have the right to arm themselves is NOT something that is bestowed upon them by government. It is not granted by government, thus it cannot be taken away by government. Therefore, a government that tries to forcefully disarm that free populace is an unlawful tyranny, and is devoid of legitimate power.
bdjbforfun: I'm not going to get into a dialogue with you about the Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment. It's just silly to think that God had anything to do with "rights" or non-rights of U.S. citizens.
mozzie-600, good decision because the B of R was modeled on what our Fore Fathers believed was granted to man by God. Perhaps you do not believe in God.
That's easy. I keep hunting and target weapons double locked with trigger guards on, and in a heavy gun safe whose combination only I know, and it also needs a key which only I have, and I keep ammo separately locked in a different safe and my home has an alarm, security cams, and I keep the doors locked when I'm away. I keep my home defense shotgun loaded and ready in a key fob type locked safe in my bedroom closet, and in my car I have an alarm, and also a locking gun rack in my trunk. My side arm stays with me at all times with the clip in a seperate pocket. What am I afraid of? @!$%#ing nothing !
Smokers presumed the right to smoke their cigarettes and infect other people's airspace. They think they are entitled because it's a free nation. Others disagree with that. Same concept as gun owners believing they can do what the hell they want, regardless if it interferes with the rights of others to live their lives in peace and not get shot to death. There comes a point where we have to respect and be kind to each other or perish.
Not restoring #1, as King Obama the First's banned, rereg of multiple accounter OBAMA the Snake, and the post was an odd derail about attacking Mexico.
groucheeoleman, jerry-2814003, IRESPOND-2315268, Ebeneser Howard, you're each suspended for a day for violating #1 of the Code of Honor.
The thread wasn't that bad - but respond to better comments, folks.
Sick Of The Lies Here banned, rereg of zipperthecat.
Lib in Oklahoma,
Did you learn English in School?!... Between the words 'Well Regulated Militia' and the 'Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms is a COMMA, meaning two different thoughts or subjects... Militia is different from the Armed Services / Armies... All of the National Guards answer to the Regular Armed Services / Government... Militia, is a Peoples / Citizens Army, if we had not had during the Revolutionary War, our Flag would be the same as Englands at this very time... Also, you and others might read the following link from Harvard Law School, a Lideral Scool as you well know... Whether you are Pro-gun or Not, you should read it, here is the link:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
Yeah, they made some really big mistakes, including this one.
Society has evolved into something they did not anticipate. IMHO, the BofR should be revisited.
If you do not believe in the Constitution, I would love to boot your ass out of my country. However, if you are a citizen, I could not do that, because the Constitution protects you.... YOU, the one who does not believe in it. I shutter to think you are a legal!
LostInThePineBarrens - Now this only going to be said once. Step away from the guns and nobody gets hurt. Don't make the POTUS go nuclear. Hopefully the state in which you reside is not bordering or my blue state is not downwind of yours. I'm quite sure I'm extremely allergic to radiation. Try to dodge that one! Best of luck.
And I think your remarks are beneath my responding to.
BTW, the word you want is "shudder", and not "shutter", which is a window covering.
@ bdjbforfun -
I think your response pretty much made my overall point! Let me help you think who your REAL enemy might be. First, its pretty clear you have drank the Reagan cool-aid that says " federal government" is "bad." That mantra has been sung since 1980 now. Pretty standard and boring. Of course, don't let the fact that Republicans LOVE government get in the way of that presumed criticism...it's only "bad" when they are not running the government!
But dig just a bit deeper, shall we? Just WHO is the government? Who supplies the names that show up in a voting booth? As you may have already surmised, those names are provided by BIG MONEY. And, therefore, who is BIG MONEY? Who is "paying for" and "hiring" in effect those (in BOTH parties btw) who we are given to vote for?
In other words, I suggest to you that our government has NOTHING to do with "party affiliation." Your enemy, therefore, could very well be the conglomerate company in your city, or the financial giant down the highway. In the words of the great Will Rogers, "We have the best government MONEY can buy!" In short, our government is no more than page boys and girls for the Financial and Corporate (Military) Complex that Eisenhower warned about back in 1959.
All to say......good luck! Good luck fighting that "enemy" you are so damn sure you know about! It's all about the money....always has been...always will be.....and it's the MONEY CLASS in America (heck, you may even be a neighbor to one or two unbeknownst to you!) that controls and runs our so-called "federal government." Of course, that should have been clear as day to you when Bush and Obama (both) bailed out Wall Street and the corporations beholden to them in 2008!
Like I said...good luck.
What a small world!
I used to live in Sarasota! I know this store! Greetings Barbara M.! My cousin and I bought some camping stuff there a long long time ago. This was back in the days when Mark Koernke came to town and there were large gatherings of militia folk (1994). Mark is on internet radio now. He used to be on "For the People Radio" out of White Springs. Now he is on Liberty Tree on computer, http://libertytreeradio.4mg.com/ , at 5 PM est.
I feel like something of the past is re-emerging, and Obama is causing its resurrection. I remember the militia/patriot movement starting in the early 1990's while we lived there. They held regular meeting attended by at least a couple hundred people.We heard all about invading U.N. goons and such. A day would come when the U.S. would lose its Constitution and we our rights in the Bill of Rights. There were large survivalist expos around the country where people went to prepare for it to "go down." I went to one in Orlando, FL. Mark was at that one too.
Then for a time, I did not hear much about that movement. I don't think it really died, though. It just went into a quieter phase where individuals quietly prepared. I was, over time, starting to think perhaps it was a little paranoid and silly, black helicopters and all. Lately, I am not so sure it is so silly considering what is happening now. If you were one of those people who ran around practicing in the woods for "it to go down," perhaps it was not all a waste of time, not with what is happening now. I hear people on T.V. seriously wanting to get rid of the second amendment. I never heard people talk like that before. It used to be a matter of interpretation only.
To say it in Han Solo, "I have a bad feeling about this." Something is going down. Look at Europe. Country after country is falling. Many joined this EU thing only to be destroyed. Isn't it funny. Greece is in trouble, and now other countries, and each one of them under a dictatorship where they are forced to starve their own people. Now that kind of talk is happening here. Austerity is planned for us too; and it is probably because we are secretly in this new world order thing. The U.S. probably signed on to it, and we were not told. We will have to copy Europe now, first the guns, then the austerity, and then.....Certain things that Mark Koernke said way back in the 1990's is coming to pass. It just took longer than a lot of people thought.
Back then, that movement was a bit partisan, leaning more Republican. Now things have shifted some. It is neither party, because many realize that the two parties are just the handmaidens of the same goons. They will just use the Republican party to enforce austerity and the Democratic party to take the guns. I think we need a whole new party now.
Obama has been responsible for more firearm sales (including first-time owners) than any other figure in recent history.
And yet the Gun Grabbers keep whining about the NRA......................
Racism has been responsible for more firearm sales--the moment that "a black man" was going to run for President, sales went up. Check the stats. It's the truth.
And anybody who is buying guns "because of President Obama" is an uninformed, ignorant moron. And I am being very nice in my description. Especially considering the fact there has been literally no reason to purchase the amount of guns that have been flying out gun stores throughout the nation since he was elected. Wait, my mistake. Yes there is. And that would be the continuous line of BS flowing from Conservatives since BEFORE President Obama was elected that he would be "taking away your guns". Which of course, was AND IS a royal crock.
Racism? Isn't 67% of the gun crimes in this country committed by black men?
Sorry, but this only makes you sound racist - to even think that would be why.
Couldn't it be that a lot of people see the pattern of history repeating itself? I cried when Obama was elected, I was so proud of our nation for finally electing a minority man to be president. Then I had the wool pulled back from my eyes and I learned the truth, he is every bit the puppet of the globalist bankers and corporations that Bush was, as was Clinton, as was Bush Senior, as was Reagan...
This slow pattern of Incrementalism has lead this country to the brink of both Financial ruin, and division of a magnitude we haven't seen in decades, possibly centuries.
People no longer want to find common ground, increasingly people are trying to find every excuse they can to divide themselves.
Congratulations on trying to create another reason for people to resent your side of the issue by making the argument that new gun owners are racist...
Progressive: you are quite right. Gun purchases are normally done because a gun owner--normally someone who has experience with the weapons, either through recreation or their profession--wishes to add on to their collection. It's because of public tragedies, mass hysteria and outright PARANOIA kicking in ("Obama is going to take away our gun rights," "they're going to ban assault weapons," "there's a black man in the White House," "we have to be able to defend ourselves" etc.) that the sales are this explosive.
The funny part is that those who yammer on about the "liberal media" and yet are the ones getting behind the rampant news stories and the big push to buy weapons now.
I got to buy 4 of the 33 round Glock magazines before they sold out. Yay!
Standup, if that's what you believe, can't help that. Certainly doesn't make it true.
The fact is a man with a record of anti- 2nd Amendment beliefs was elected President. He can stand up there and spread all the BS he wants, but his past history says otherwise.
So if I disagree with the president I am now a racist? Excellent way to try to keep the other side from speaking them mind, slander them whenever they try to counter your points.
There was one segment of the population who voted for the candidate based clearly upon the color of his skin. Yet no one calls them racist. I forget the percentage but it was above 90% of blacks voted for Obama. A better way of looking at it is that above 90% of blacks voted against the white guy simply because he was white. Who is racist?
TC
Great solution, Arms everyone, children, teachers, every adults. How did it work before with everyone that has sword in Middle Age?
Paul71-1655761
And the color of his skin has NOTHING to do with it.
Cuong,
Kennesaw Georgia requires every adult to have a registered firearm and be trained in it's use. My buddy lives there. They have one of the lowest crime rates in the country.
Here in Florida where I live, the violent crime rate is dropping due to so many armed and trained citizens. This isn't coming from me. It's from the liberal police force study. They said that criminals are scared to do their home invasions and armed robberies now with so many people packing. This has saved tens of thousands of lives. Of course the liberal media never reports on such things.
The $2,000,000,000 that OBAMA gave Mexico for ASSAULT WEAPONS WITH HIGH CAPACITY MAGAZINES, to help their "army" (run by drug cartels), to fight the drug cartels (who run the "army") makes me believe your right. The Mexicans are in fact RACISTS!
An armed society is a polite society... so have some manners!!!!
Actually everyone in the middle age's did not have a sword the were limited to the elite ruling class most common folk were forbidden from owning any kind of weapons to prevent them from rising up against and oppressive kings government. Does this sound familiar
Obama, after all, was given the award "Gun Salesman of the Year" Thank you Mr. Obama I truly feel safer now that more people have arms. The is something about the mutual respect of gun ownership - it breeds freedom. Let me tell you, I LOVE FREEDOM.
"There was one segment of the population who voted for the candidate based clearly upon the color of his skin. Yet no one calls them racist. I forget the percentage but it was above 90% of blacks voted for Obama. A better way of looking at it is that above 90% of blacks voted against the white guy simply because he was white. Who is racist?"
Yeah, that would be a good argument... if you don't know the nation's history. Blacks have been Democrats by large percentages for the past half century because the party of Lincoln made a decision to ride white resentment to the polls. So most blacks were doing what they often do, voting for a Democrat. Blacks also voted for Obama because he is the first African American to ever run as a major party candidate for president, not because they were "voting against the white guy simply because he is white." Your statement is ahistorical twaddle.
During the Clinton years we had a ban, the gov. never took your house, never enslaved you etc. etc. Your buddy in chief George Bush let the ban expire. Most police in America don't want to have to face this kind of weapon. But no worries, your not on the front line. the police and our kids are. I'll stop here before I say something really really mean. good luck
The "Gun Town" law has been in place for many years, and is widely ignored. Kennesaw is just another suburb, with typical suburban crime rates.
Which 'study' is that?
Wonder why the fool in the WH doesn't put this much effort into creating JOBS and improving the ECONOMY?????
OK, sheepled, we HEARD you the first time!!
America is a sick, violent country. Look at how people worship guns. The only thing a gun is good for is to kill. Killing is a fetish for these gun lovers. They stroke their guns as if it is a penis. They love to go out in the woods and chase animals with trucks, atvs, spotlights, dogs..lhen shoot the animals, then call it a sport. It's the sport that mass murderers of children understand, shooting unarmed beings that cannot fight back.
AR-15 assault rifles and Twinkies flying off the shelves. That about sums up the mentality out there of this country.
Whenever there is a gun sales surge and photos of those in the gun stores are published with the stories, it always shows only one race, group or type of people making the buys. In fact, I challenge all of us to find a past media picture anywhere of a person(s) of color hastily partiscipating in a gun sale surge. So, why is it always only scared white guys buying guns based on some political bait? It's my guess they recognize and are aware of their guilt (as they should be).
Lets collapse sheepled's comments - Spamming your opinion should be viewed as discraceful to pubs and demos
Obama is continuing to do his part in improving the economy. There are so many paranoid people out there that if Obama doesn't deny a rumor another 10 million is put back into the economy. Not address more rumors and another 50 million is put back into the economy. Anybody keeping up with the stock market lately. If so I will give you some advice don't by weapon mfg. it is the current bubble.
Sheepled: Great name for YOU. I didn't read ANY of your posts. Idiot.
Jeanvaljean - have you considerd it could also be due to poverty? I think the majority of individuals will agree that whites typically have more disposible income than blacks, and when a gun runs you between $1000 and 2,000 .... you typically need to have some free cash laying around.
This comment is not meant to be racist at all - so please do not go on a tangent about racism - being of a lower economic ability does not make you a bad person.
sheepld- just for the reason you posted this multiple times nobody's reading it. Stop being offensive.
Perhaps, my friend, it's because when they talk of taking away weapons; they want to disarm those white guys you see in the stores (and I'd love to see you call them "scared" to their face...LOL) while doing absolutely nothing to stop the black guys who commit most of the gun violence in this country
We done got ourselves some more Bushmasters and multi-clips . We is ready for the libral onslaught or ifn we needs to defend are honor orsek revnge. Amen
...and besides...black guys don't buy guns...they steal them
"ah gots to get me a 40 to hit a lick"
Run up those Gun Sales, help the economy. This is Great! Of course, many, many of the people purchasing weapons have no idea about operation and safety. So the time may be ripe to invest in Health Care (Hospital) Stocks and Mortuary Stock, as there will be a large number of accidental injuries and deaths due to their obvious stupidity. "Martha, how does this here Tallywhacker 500 work?" Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp, Oops, sorry about that Uncle Bill and Aunt Sadie. Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp. now why did I buy that 500 Round Clip? "I'll get use to this here thing, may take out all of the kin folk, but I will get use to it.
"I challenge all of us to find a past media picture anywhere of a person(s) of color hastily partiscipating (sic) in a gun sale surge."
Jean, ole buddy, since FBI statistics show that 67% of the gun violence in this country is committed by the "persons of color" your racist rant seems to be espousing, and the vast, vast majority of the guns used in those crimes were stolen or illegally obtained in some other way, could it be that:
1. "persons of color" don't "buy" their guns
2. "persons of color" don't "buy" their guns where the purchases are recorded (hint, "straw purchases", people who sell stolen property, etc.)
If #2 is correct, then the "persons of color" are smart for obtaining their arms in a way that the government can't track, record, investigate, and later confiscate.
Of course, racists such as yourself try to bait every situation to your own deluded philosophy.
There are many reasons people are buying up these guns before new, stricter laws are enforced. One could be simple economics: a $2000 rifle today could be worth $10,000 in a couple years, after the "gun control" nuts get finished.
Progressive...you are aware that Obama hails from Chicago, right? The gun laws in Chicago are in direct contradiction to the 2nd Amendment. Do you remember Obama ever speaking out about that?
@Astro 21
Obama is NOT our first African American president. He is our first MIXED race president. Get it right!!!
What? Are you joking? Really?
...come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen him standing next to his white mother a SINGLE time since he's been in office. Makes me wonder...is he not proud of her? After all his Kenyan father hightailed it back to Africa and left her with the job of rasing little Obammy.
If Obama has made anything of his life - it's because of this white woman and her mother - not "The Village"
@FreedonOverSympathy:
I tend to agree with you because the stats do support that Blacks have less disposable cash for such things, and we all know why that is, which goes to my point of "guilt" I mentioned above; to wit, this nation has a very well known history of oppression, racism and violence against Blacks on an institutionalized scale. Such things will, and has, kept Blacks at a lower financial rung of the societal ladder. The white guys continue to use their power to create the threat of fear in Blacks and buying guns is just an additional way of continuing this threat.
"JeanValjean"
ROTFLMAO!!! Very first story I found when I did a search shows a black man holding an AR. So much for your bull @!$%#!-
http://www.foxcharlotte.com/news/top-stories/Gun-Sales-Surge-Following-Obamas-Gun-Control-Proposal-Announcement-187235221.html
And of course, Valjean, blacks dropping out of school like flies, siring babies like wild rabbits, and devoting their time and efforts to gang-related crime.....all made possible by free money and food from a liberal governent...have absolutely nothing to do with their "oppression"....right?
The guns blacks are using in gang wars, drug wars and crime are usually stolen or bought illegally on the street. People buying legally usually want the guns for sport or protection. Legally purchased guns are not usually used in crimes.
@robbop... and CCGWRider:
When posting my comments it is my intension to solicit intelligent, thoughtful responses from others. I do not seek nor do I wish to obtain responses from thoughtless, uneducated and ignorant people who are oviously of a brainwashed racist mentality such as you have demonstrated by your comments. The only good thing that comes from your comments clearly serves to evinced my earlier initial points, i.e., it is only the cowards who wish to hide behind their guns.
Where do the blacks get their guns? From the Mexicans! The Mexicans buy them from white Americans who go into gun shops in Arizona, buy $20,000 worth of guns at a time, and then walk out and sell them on the street.
Bloomberg Unveils Videos of Arizona Gun Show Sting - WNYC
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
"JeanValjean"
WOW, talk about full of @!$%#! When you make a post about white men running to buy guns the only thing that is obvious is that YOU are the "brainwashed racist". Oh, and "educated" people don't have the spelling issues you do or are at the very least clever enough to use the spellchecker.
Seriously, you should try harder not to make a hypocrite of yourself.
Oh, and no response to your failed challenge??? Why am I not surprised? I suspect you've never admitted you were wrong about anything in your life...even to yourself.
Interesting to see this play out. Reminds me of the Y2K experience where people panicked and went around buying up survival materials by the dozens, which proved completely unnecessary. What are these ignorant gun enthusiasts, who are going into a frenzy investing large sums of money only making gun manufacturers rich, going to do with them? Go on rampages, shooting everybody?, or just dust them off once in awhile and put them back in the closet. Makes no sense to me.
"JeanValjean"
Lets not even go into all that - This country has been giving FASFA funds to minorities for some 40+ years. We have passed Affirmitive Action after Affirmitive Action - Yet African Americans are still the lowest percentile of college graduates. If after 40 years they have not been able to bring their lines out of poverty.... I believe that is a personal problem.
Fiar enough...if you ever get around to posting an intellegent and thoughtful observation instead of racist drivel from a "Black History" textbook - please let us know
...I'll be glad to respond in kind
In the meantime, learn to spell...."intension"....jeez
look what happens, Jean...I respond to your idiotic statement and I mispell a word like "fair"
....time to take a shower and wash the ignorance off....
i bought an s&w m&p 40 cal about 6 months ago already had a38 and a9 mil but wanted something a little different. i live in nh it took almost an hour for the background check and when i opened the case what did i find. a spent casing. this was new to me had a pretty good idea what it was for but asked a friend whos in law enforcement why and he confirmed my thoughts they keep a round on file in a data base. so explain to me how legal responsible people are going to use their guns in a crime without getting caught in about 2 seconds!
dufuq is everyone talking about?
I am a white male and I definitely support guns. I really don't like make vast generalizations that all black people get their guns illegally, but that statistics show that a good many do, not all. As for Obama,buying guns has nothing to do with the color of his skin. He could be white, black, red, blue, I don't care. But what I do care about is my 2nd amendment right being slowly taken away.
You realize that when you have to register your gun that means the government knows every law abiding citizen that owns a gun/ So if it ever come to the point that he tries to remove guns the people who registered will be the ones they take the guns from and the people who bought guns illegally will have their guns to terrorize people with.
The thing right now is, Obama is not stupid enough to try and take our guns all at once. He will make us WANT to give up our guns. after we give up our guns our other rights will then be open to "debate". I mean why have the tenth amendment? States are just annoyances anyway. And that first amendment just causes some people to spread "lies" about the president and government. Let's kick it out.
Our government is slowly becoming socialistic and communistic. The way things are going by the time we figure out our rights are being stripped it will be too late. Some will try and fight but fail, many will embrace it because they have been indoctrinated. But it will end up meaning that "Freedom" is out of style.
Could I be wrong? sure. But things keep on pointing to something like this happening. I don't think all Americans are too stupid to see what is going on, I think they are just ignorant. They listen and believe 100% whatever the media or or government tells them. I say instead of believing MSNBC or CNN or even the conservative Fox News they should check the facts and see how many lies are being told. America just lacks Common Sense basically.
@Spider, I didn't drop out of school ( I am currently working on my Masters). I didn't have babies like wild rabbits. I only have one and I have not devoted one minute of my time to gang-related activities. I don't know any gang members. Also, I don't get any free money or food. But yet at times, I feel oppressed. Like some unseen force is trying to place me in a box and group me with individuals that I don't know or can relate to. Hmmmmm, I wonder what that is?
f hill, I believe your spent casing is what is referred to as a "Proof Round"
It was put there by the gun maker to show that your gun had been test fired sucessfully at the factory
...there is no other reason
TrueConservative, that's been true since the 2008 elections. If you didn't buy into the Media/Liberal "If you don't vote for Obama that PROVES you are a racist" rant.
They don't seem to accept the fact that we can disagree with Obama and his politics and not be a racist.
Today, if you support the views of the NRA and/or own one or more guns that can be considered an "Assault weapon" (even if it isn't) then you MUST be a racist.
Liberals and gun haters alike, I have one pertinent question which no one has answered.
How is restricting the rights of law abiding gun owners going to change what criminals do or don't do?
Are criminals going to suddenly start carrying smaller magazines? Fewer guns? Smaller caliber weapons? Will they put fewer rounds in their magazines?
Answer to all the criminal questions - no. Why? Because they are criminals and by nature do not follow the law.
Now, how is restricting the rights of law abiding gun owners going to change what criminals do or do not do?
TrueConservative-2261876 Remember the percentage statement from your candidate? That was YOUR candidate saying he didn't want the black vote. Or the minority vote for that matter. Thats a loud statement about your party, you should be soooo proud. NOT!
Racism? Isn't 67% of the gun crimes in this country committed by black men?
67% of gun crimes involving single victims are committed by black men. To date, 98% of mass shootings involving multiple victims have been committed by white men (the remaining 2% being Asian men).
robbopaloobop
ummm try again.. SOME states REQUIRE that shell casing be sent to the state for "future" comparisons so they can compare against firing pin marks at crime scenes. NOT all states require that YET but it is easier for the mfg to include one in every case than guess which firearms are going to which state.
America is the greatest country on Earth but yes, some of the people that inhabit America are sick and violent. I do not worship my guns, I have them to DEFEND myself from the sick/violent people we hear about in the news. When have you ever read that "John Smith went to the gun range today with his legally purchased rifle and shot a paper target"? Never? I only ask because that happens every day in America. Sometimes you read that "Carl Johnson was killed in a drug deal gone wrong". Do you see where I'm going with this? Gun owners aren't the problem, so stop bashing us. And what is the anti-gunners fascination with equating firearms to dicks??
chrisk196,
That was a candidate that has a realistic view of the field and realized that there is a certain percentage of voters that will and did follow Obama no matter what he said or did. I can assure you that Obama and any other politician is well aware of similar issues and have probably voiced similar statements to at least their inner circle. Any rational thinking adult understands that even if the talking heads of mass media or kool aide sipping liberals don't.
fhill, robopaloobop,
None of the gun manufacturers keep a "database" of rounds on file, nor do they supply one to any government agency. However, in some jurisdictions you do have to supply the "proof round" to the local constabulary and they do keep it in a database. If you aren't sure if your jurisdiction is one of these, I suggest you visit handgunlaw dot us and find out as it is an excellent source of information.
Sparky-in response to your comment here is a good song to represent this gun issue.
Uploaded on Mar 5, 2011
Ohhh, people why don't you come
in here and let me talk to you
a while.
That's right, step right up and
listen to a concerned citizen speak
his piece.
I'll tell you a little something
that my daddy told to me.
My basic fundamentals if you want to be free.
'Cause son, there's somthing wrong internally.
So, if you want your freedom son.
Don't want your country to be overrun.
You got to keep America number one.
(CHORUS)
My daddy told me "Son, don't
let 'em take your gun.
That's what they tryin' to do.
Son, don't let 'em take your gun.
They're takin' your Bill of Rights away from you."
My daddy said "Son, don't
let 'em take your gun.
That's what they tryin' to do.
Son, don't let 'em take your gun.
Don't let 'em take your gun away from you."
Ohhh, this year is our anniversary.
Two hundred years, people we've been free.
Won't be nobody takin' over our land.
If everybody's brother's got a gun in his hand.
I'm tellin' you we learned to fight for justice.
We're willing to die for freedom.
Hand in hand.
You got to understand.
We are American men.
Said they want your gun.
Said they want your gun.
Send 'em on the run.
Send 'em on the run.
Hip-hurray for fun.
Hip-hurray for fun.
If they do we're done.
If they do we're done.
(CHORUS)
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Music
License
Standard YouTube License
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Uploader Comments (chicodelacalle77)
robbopaloobop, Obama's mother died in 1995. That may be why you don't see him posing with her at events.
It's almost like watching a reality tv show. I'm both awestruck and amused by people's stupidity. The assault rifles that you have will be grandfathered, just like they were during the last ban. And no, the ban will not stop nutcases and criminals from killing people. They will continue to steal the weapons from their family members or from your house while you are not at home or they may have already owned them. No one is born with a criminal or future nutcase stamp on their head. You will never know until suddenly they are shooting at you. And ok, if for some reason you are so awesome that you saw it coming and was able to shoot the threat, why do you need a weapon that could spray 20+ rounds quickly. Ever think about the other people in the vicinity, the ones that you will most likely hit, too? Oh that's right, you are well trained and will only hit your target. So why do you need a gun like that?
The NRA's campaign of fear is sure paying off for their controllers, the gun manufacturers.
ED-2874315
Coma, Bloomy and Obama seem to be doing a better sales pitch than the entire NRA AND all the mfg advertising combined.
Amanda, why do you need a refrigerator that will keep 20+ meals fresh? Why a car that can go 200+ miles before refilling the tank? A job that pays $20,000+ a year? Why on earth do you need more than 20 pairs of shoes?? None of this is my business or our governments. It is not your neighbors place to tell you what you can and cannot have, within your rights.
By the time Obama's ridiculous assault on the 2nd amendment gets signed there will be more weapons in the hands of people then ever before. The risk of abuse or misuse has just dramatically increased and Obama may have just made the situation worse. Either way, there are more guns in the hands of more people, so what did he really solve? Nothing.
Is gun control an assault on the 2nd amendment or do more guns in the hands of people make the situation worse? You can't have it both ways Karen.
Interesting. This may be the situation of 'Unintended consequences'.
And there are because ignorant Americans are either to uninformed, to stupid or a combination of both to realize that the constant line of BS from conservatives and the NRA that "Obama is going to take your guns" is just that. TOTAL BS.
Obama can never take guns away. There is simply no possible way for any President, legislation, Prohibition or sweeping gun collection task force to do that in this country.
BUT WE HAVE TO ADMIT THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY. And we HAVE to do SOMETHING. We can't simply let things go on as they have and let civilians have access to high-powered, armor-piercing, multi-round weaponry because things just keep getting worse--and it happens in relation to the improvements in gun technology.
It's hilarious when liberals say the prez does not want to take away our guns. Just our assault rifles. Isn't that taking away our guns?
Liberals. God love em! LOL!
ProgressiveforAmerica
"And there are because ignorant Americans are either to uninformed, to stupid or a combination of both"
Way to win over the opinion of people who don't agree with you.
I thought progressives are supposed to be all liberal and Tolerant? I thought you kind of liberals are supposed to be Politically correct and not judge people just for having a different opinion?
Frankly you progressives are all the same, no better than your political enemies, and not very different in the path you both represent for this country.
IT's time people wake up and realize this Binary lie of left vs Right is just to keep us divided and confused and hide the fact that there are alternatives.
When you consider that both parties ultimate accomplishments have been nearly identical over the last several decades, you cannot dispute the fact that both parties are in bed with one another and only argue over who gets to control the levers of power and toward which direction - Fascist Corporatism, or Socialist Authoritarianism.
(Pssst here's a hint, they are both the same with regards to how it effects the people!)
The only time our government ever agrees on anything in a bipartisan way, is when it is taking away power from the the people or creating new ways to screw us over.
If your response to that is to blame the Republicans/Conservatives/anyone else but progressive liberals, you live in a fantasy world...
Man up and provide a quote from Obama where he says explicitly that he is going to dispatch government agents to collect all assault weapons. If you cannot provide that, man up and admit you're making it up.
Caput,
Hey, we may not totally agree philosophically, but we can agree on this. Know what? Divisive issues like this are what keep things the same. Divide and conquer. If you don't vote for me, the OTHER GUY will win and DO SOMETHING HORRIBLE.
Damn, you were doing so well right up until this part. Blame is equal among the parties for everything we are in. The fourth amendment might as well be TP thanks to conservatives. But liberals embraced and extended the extinguishing of this one. The first amendment has been delegated to zones. First by liberals and abortion clinics, embraced by conservatives and protesters.
Pragmatic: paranoia knows no bounds.
StandUpJokeOff
"BUT WE HAVE TO ADMIT THAT WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH GUN VIOLENCE IN THIS COUNTRY. And we HAVE to do SOMETHING. We can't simply let things go on as they have and let civilians have access to high-powered, armor-piercing, multi-round weaponry because things just keep getting worse--and it happens in relation to the improvements in gun technology."
Those scary black guns your indirectly referring to are to blame for a tiny tiny fraction of gun violence in the united states, your more likely to be a victim of a guy swinging a hammer than you are from a guy wielding an AK, AR, Etc etc.
The technology for these guns is largely over 100 years old... The improvements that led to the creation of the AR15, AK47 and most other modern firearms are all over 30 years old...
The only thing that has changes is our CULTURE of fear, created by the Left and Right over issue after issue, the solution to which they always offer is more power for them, less freedom and Empowerment for us.
Terrorists attack on 911, You can't be trusted to make a phone call, we need to listen to you, and you can't get on the plane without us feeling up your children.
A school gets shot up by a madman, and every normal American gun owner is to blame and should turn in their weapons.
This is clear to anyone paying attention... Rather than people responding out of fear and ignorance.
Whatever legislation is enacted probably won't include an 'assault rifle ban', but probably will deal with background checks, gun-show loopholes, stricter licensing, and maybe regulations on clip size and type of ammo. Most of these weapons are being bought by patriotic, if slightly paranoid, people who will rarely or never use them. The idea of confiscation is a red herring to drive sales, and rants about the 2nd amendment are delivered by aggravated people who later apologize when they regain what senses they possess.
Hey Pragmatic-3918582: Suck on this:
"
“I'm going to be putting forward a package and I'm going to be putting my full weight behind it… I'm going to be making an argument to the American people about why this is important and why we have to do everything we can to make sure that something like what happened at Sandy Hook Elementary does not happen again.
“I've been very clear that an assault rifle ban,” Mr. Obama said, “banning these high capacity clips, background checks, that there are a set of issues that I have historically supported and will continue to support.”"
You can find the qoute within seconds just by doing a google search for the text:
Obama to NBC: He wants to ban semi-autos in 'first year'
consider yourself Pwnd...
NEXT!
Caput,
I don't think you have a stat on that. But I think the conversation needs to be a different one. The government is all but barred from conducting research on gun violence. The NRA lobbied and congress passed this in the 1990's and it has had a chilling effect on gun violence research. Since when is it taboo to gather information and ask questions? Additionally, the gun industry is the only industry that enjoys an exemption from civil suit and consumer protection laws. Why the exceptionalism? I doubt knife manufacturers enjoy such protection, and a knife is an arm just as much as a gun. (With other uses, just like a gun.)
I did not see anything about confiscating assault rifles. I want a clear unambiguous quote. A ban is a ban on sale. Don't be dense. I know you're smarter than this.
Oh my friend I always have a stat, and I get them from places like the FBI.. HOW DARE you try to preach to people about gun violence or what is right or wrong and you don't even know the facts:
Go check the FBI for these stats:
2011 there was 323 murders committed with a rifle (including Assault Rifles) but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs.
"I did not see anything about confiscating assault rifles. I want a clear unambiguous quote. A ban is a ban on sale. Don't be dense. I know you're smarter than this."
*sigh* fine he never said Confiscate. He did say ban.
Of course that could be the same thing.
Good work. But I am not preaching. I just have a strong distaste for BS.
I did read it. The key phrase is confiscate, collect, etc etc, not "assault weapon". A ban could mean confiscate, but there is no historical precedence for this. I doubt very much this is going to change. A ban historically means a ban on sale.
"Damn, you were doing so well right up until this part. Blame is equal among the parties for everything we are in. The fourth amendment might as well be TP thanks to conservatives. But liberals embraced and extended the extinguishing of this one. The first amendment has been delegated to zones. First by liberals and abortion clinics, embraced by conservatives and protesters."
I think that's exactly what I said about the whole thing
I said if you blame all conservatives, but never liberals your in fantasy land, that was in response to Progressive what's his name. Of course both are guilty.
They are both working for the same interests, and those interests and not that of the American people, unless you really do consider corporations to be people like the law does LOL
Pretty obvious the will of the people is speaking, in firearm sales! Betcha it would be higher if the economy was better and people could afford to buy more!
I did read it. The key phrase is confiscate, collect, etc etc, not "assault weapon". Your attempt at misdirection will not work on me.
Was not attempt to misdirect, I am having three different debates right now on two sites, so I made a minor error when I read your comment. I corrected it and admit that he never said confiscate.
your lucky I didn't address my comment to you using the name of the guy or gal on the other site LOL
Caput,
All good. And now I understand what you meant.
Game, Set, Match,.............Caput.
Pragmatic, give it up dude. You got your butt handed to you in this debate.
I love what the POTUS has done for me. I pre purchased 25 of these "evil rifles" with the magazines to equip them. In 6 months I will over triple my investment. Thank you Mr. Obama for investing in my future retirement plan.
Pragmatic-3918582
Maybe you should talk to the people in New Orleans after Katrina/ The Authorities were going house to house saying they were checking on peoples well being and then searching for guns... There is a YouTube Vid of a 60-70 year old lady being man handled and thrown to the floor over a pistol she had in her hand...
Also as a record was not kept as to where the guns had come from... The people cannot get them back...
We have seen how the gov't works and we all know sure as He!!, if they are able too, they will be back execpt it will be nation wide.
Bob,
I don't think this qualifies as getting my butt handed to me. And you still haven't manned up.
Everyone who is saying the NRA is holding us hostage and so on... realize the NRA is a memberbased community. These members are Americans - So the NRA is holding no one hostage - for the be held hostage you must first oppose their status; which millions of Americans do not - they rather enjoy their status - which is self evident in the fact that more people are signing up for the NRA than ever before.
Historically true. Currently they are more of a lobbying organization. Has been since the 70's.
@ Pragmatic:
"Good work. But I am not preaching. I just have a strong distaste for BS."
As do I my friend, AS DO I!
Hence why I'm in (now only) two debates on this very issue as we speak.
The Loss of my 2nd amendment here in NY state is a staggering blow...
With the wave of a pen I am in possession of Contraband items that were legal a week ago.
If I do not Turn them in I must register them, this registration can be approved or denied by the county, and thus I cannot exercise my 2nd amendment freely without breaking an unconstitutional law (which makes it a non law, but a lot of good that will do me till it gets overturned).
Right now in NY state, good people, people who have never done anything "wrong" have to decide whether or not they will comply with an EVIL and unjust law, a law that was given only 20 minutes before it was voted on in the republican held senate... Those republicans are total traitors to their constituents and the vote was 43 - 18 in favor of the new law. A single day after that to be voted on by assembly With a similar bipartisan vote result, and signed into law by the very man who wrote it who is planning to use it as a political spring board...
My side of the debate was never heard in session, my representatives never spoke out for me, nobody even knew what was in the bill until it was passed because the bill was WAY too long to read in 20 minutes.
The law that went on file would have done NOTHING to prevent a Sandy hook shooting... and do everything to block me from exercising my freedom without getting permission first... If you need permission from the govt, it's not a right.
I can be convicted as a CLASS A FELON just because my rifle has a pistol grip. A pistol grip doesn't effect the operation of the firearm in any way. I can (and will be buying) a new part for it to convert it to a monte carlo stock. (no pistol grip) and my military style rifle will be just as effective as it was preban. But I saw this coming years ago, and bought the gun I bought so that if they went after assault weapons again, I could keep mine... guys with AR15's or AK's cannot do that... they will have to register... They don't make monte Carlo stocks for those.
Assault weapon bans do not protect citizens, they protect the government, because the only ones who have to fear them is an out of control government (or foreign invader).
Gun violence, at least as far as the numbers go, is almost entirely due to handguns, and while I am NOT in favor of stricter hand gun laws... IF the real purpose of the current wave of Vitriol against the 2nd amendment was to create safety for the people, you would think they would be going after handguns and leaving Rifles alone... Out of those 11,000 gun homocides last year as Piers morgan repeatedly flaunted... less than 350 of them were caused by the scary black rifles that are the target of all this paranoia!
They did however create a defacto ban on most handguns because most modern handguns do not have magazines of 7 rounds or lower, you would be limited to revolvers, or 1911's which by the way was intentional, Cuomo was planning on making it a 5 round limit, but because there is a big 1911 factory here in NY, they lobbied him and made it so their handgun magazine size would be legal.
However, Glocks, Sigs, and everyting else usualy has no less than 10 round magazines.
Now remember how I said my Rifle is a CLASS A felony if I don't mod it, turn it in, or register it?
The new magazine law that limits people to 7 rounds, is only a misdomeanor, and if you are caught with those magazines, you are given 30 days to turn them in or prove they have been sold/destroyed before they press charges.
No my friend, they are going after the guns that threaten THEM, not the civilian population...
And they are doing it in ways that make them money and get them power.
Stick with me long enough and maybe I'll eventually prove that to you :)
Caput,
I applaud every one of your comments. They are spot on true. It truly is very sad times here in America, what once was the land of the free. I truly hope that "We the People" can carry out a non-aggressive way to replace the current regime in Washington, but that is probably not possible, as historically, people who have power and money, generally will not go quietly.
There is no point in getting all worked up about it, gun people. It will be too hard to get any laws of any substance through congress, esp. with the NRA dropping off wheel barrows of cash at those law maker's off shore accounts. What was already done by executive order was okay but what is really needed is to continue to address unemployment and education. There is nothing they could do to make more of a difference. I think they can never have mandatory sentences too harsh for illegal weapons though.
Doh! Ya better get out and buy your guns! They're comin' to take them away soon.
Hurry! Take out a second mortgage on your house so you can buy more guns! They're gonna stop making them!
Buy 'em and bury 'em in the backyard where they won't find 'em huh huh huh! heh hehe heh heh!
Man up and admit that it is a fallacy to assume that someone must make a specific declaration of intent in order to have that intent.
Obama’s writing was on a 1996 document, which was filed when Obama was running for the Illinois state Senate. A Chicago nonprofit, Independent Voters of Illinois, had this question, and Obama took hard line:
35. Do you support state legislation to:
a. ban the manufacture, sale and possession of handguns? Yes.
b. ban assault weapons? Yes.
Conservatives can't understand why liberals don't trust their leaders and liberals can't understand it when conservatives don't trust their leaders. I don't understand why anyone would trust any politician.
The enemy(NRA) of my enemy(Obama's illegals) is my friend!!!
Not only can the political views of an individual change in 17 years but the political environment also changes. Until now, as president Obama has only helped gun owners and potential gun owners.
Caput, well written in 3.26.
My sympathies go out to you and all your neighbors, might be time to pull up stakes and get the heck out of NY.
A ban on "EBR's" is totally unfounded, as Caput stated, and per the 2011 FBI stats on Homicides table 11 there were 323 homicides by rifle. That is roughly half the amount of homicides during the same year as those caused by fists, hands, and feet. Yet, the control freaks want to outlaw the tool that caused the least carnage because of the way it looks? By the way, "EBR's" (Evil Black Rifles), or better known now as "Assault Rifles" were used in less than 50 incidents last year. Including those considered accidental and/or during the act of hunting.
Also, an AR-15 makes an excellent prairie dog hunting tool, relatively long range with a small caliber and you can carry all the ammo you need in one magazine (not a clip) instead of having to carry ammo boxes.
As far as the "universal registration", wait until some 85+ year old Grandpa goes away for the rest of his life because he gave his great-grandson/gran-daughterthe rifle that hung above the door for five generations. He will be labeled a "felon".
How?
The most ridiculous thing to come of all this are the ones who believe the government wants to come confiscate their guns.
How would they do that? You actually believe they'd come to your house to search it, take what you have, then move to your neighbors house? How many homes are out there- millions?
Worse: "They'd best not come to my house and try to take my guns. First thing they'd get is a .45 slug right betwixt their eyebawls! I might go down, but they're gonna have a real fight!" Get real- you think you would have the balls to get in a gunfight with the authorities if they came to your house? Committing suicide would be a lot easier.
It's time to chill out about the gun debate. Don't go to the gun store, stay home. Don't make silly statements about what you think you're going to do if something else happens, because you probably won't. Do something constructive- take some Lance Armstrong memorabilia and sell it on ebay.
Ha ha ha the liberals win becuase more guns are now in the hands of Americans. Boy i will bet that what Joe was hoping for. Idiots.
The best message back to Joe go to the gun store and buy every gun you can find. Arm yourself to the tee that will be message back to Joe and that Muslim known as O
As gun enthusiasts, we buy & sell at gun shows all the time. The law states we must verify residence & age. No driver's license, no sale. We prefer to sell to people that hold a CHL (concealed handgun license) these people have met any requirement to own a firearm, but it is not required by law.
If the wrong thing is said in the course of a sale.... it's OFF. Any impression of illegal intent or questionable credentials and it's over.
We are gun enthusiasts and enjoy fine weapons. We are not criminals & we would hope no one would accuse us of any crimes without basis.
We are being profiled & persecuted for the deeds of others. If this was to happen to any ethnic group or "alternative lifestyle" group the media would be yelling RACISM or BIGOTS, but since we are law-abiding citizens expressing our Constitutional rights, we are being forced to pay for the crimes.
Today, we are under attack. Who will it be tomorrow? Maybe you?
profreedom...or lack thereof;
This is why they want all guns registered.
The first step to confiscation is registration and there is precedence in history for that. See Germany, USSR, and even the UK. Or better yet, Australia that is still going on today.
Besides that, by registering your firearm you now circumvent your fourth Amendment right because you just gave the government "probably cause".
Are you people so dense you can not see this?
Twinkies and AR-15s flying off the shelf.... That is the mentality of this country today.
No Pragmatic there is historical proof of confiscation. Check history in NYC when they required returning Vets to register their weapons they brought back or bought through military surplus. After these Vets that laid their lives on the line for this country had registered their weapons the government then came and confiscated them. Many times knocking down doors when there was not an answer. Just think they did this the the "Greatest Generation", imagine what they might do now
To y'all libs out there in Obamaland, the Gov of NY actually talked about confiscation of guns from law abiding citizens. If you think the gov't is trustowrthy, then dont you see they wont tell the truth. Why did DHS just finish buying 200K rounds of ammo I wonder. if Americans dont buy up the guns available then Eric Holder will probably buy them for another Fast and Furious to neutralize other Border patrols agents trying to enforce the law. This is my point, almost everything Obama tried as overlord of the colonies has back fired on them becuase either they are incomptent dont you see or inept which is more the reality.
Do you people not understand? This is how we are going to show Q4 2012 and Q1 2013 economic growth. All the weapons manufacturers will be posting big gains in revenue!! Way to go Mr. President, in turnning our economy around...(nope, didn't even bother reading anyone's posts)
I will buy as many as I can. I will not register a single one. I will not be "checked" by those who refuse to check themselves. I'll pay more from a private seller, but it will be PRIVATE. As a Vet, I am well aware of the potential of any weapon in the hands of someone that has no training. Most of our so-called government officials HAVE NO TRAINING yet they feel they should regulate those of us who have served our country? I don't think so!!!
If Oscama and Eric Holdup had their way, they would confinscate all weapons and sell them to the Mexicans to use against us.
ATTENTION NBCNEWS! QUIT PUSHING YOUR BS AGENDA...
That rifle was found in the attacker's car, it was not USED!
Looks like more to come on this Attack of America's Rights down the road in March,a UN meeting on guns in NY.......
Obama likely took a "soft" approach by suggesting study's,and studying study's,and seeming "light" on the NRA,But this meeting in March to make final Tweeks to their World bans and restrictions,maybe the reason,He will be able to blame the UN for the strict or Complete Ban worldwide,this way he can appease both sides of the fight,when really doing nothing at all except the wiggle room he left to violate our rights through our healthcare Dr.Requiring them to expose anyone with a gun in their house,wether or not they have a history violence,depression,past drug/Alcohol problems,postpardem depression that may or may not included meds for a short time,even with no criminal history or future fear of such, could be in danger of loosing their gun if anyone in their house have Been reported as such,then they would want to test you for "defects".Again this is on the books allready,we have laws that a Dr. Of any kind to report a patient who they feel may hurt themselves or others,this is way more intrusive and Very vague,on purpose like most of the 23 Obama signed yesterday...slippery slope indeed.
Thenewamerica.com
As much as "barry" and his crowd are trying to fan the flames of this tragedy to push gun bans, etc, through quickly I doubt they will accomplish much. Most clear thinking people know that the problem is NOT our guns. Maybe "barry" should attack the rap music, violent video games and violent movies that are released by the hollywood crowd. They do more harm to the young skulls full of mush than my guns do.
Now I did...
ProFreedom-5130956, are you trying to say what I will or will not do? Might I ask what your veteran status is? You say:
I say the same thing I've said plenty of times before:
I am well trained in arms sir/ma'am. I am animated by a love and passion for liberty. And no, I will never afford neither a cheap or easy conquest. I will defend my home, my family, and my liberty with my dying breath. Better to die a martyr under the banner of freedom and liberty then by some gang bangers stray bullet or tyranny which is being forced upon you by others. Our Founding Fathers believed this, and I don't think I'm a wise enough man to disagree with them.
You seriously need to change your screen name. If you were actually for freedom, you would realize that the only thing that frees you is the ability to defend yourself from those who would take from you.
A little thing called greed;
The same thing happened to create the housing bubble. Flip and flip and flip those houses while stretching that bubble thinner and thinner. Gonna make a rich man out of me. Boom! What was that? The bubble just burst. How many houses are you holding in your hands, Pal? A bunch. They're now worth about 20% of what you owe on them. Cry me a river. You brought this on yourself and thousands of innocent homeowners.
Buy every gun you can find at any price. The sky is the limit. You're gonna make a killing. Wait, what's that sound? Boom! Where have we heard that sound before? How many guns are you holding in your hands, Pal?
StandUpJokeOff, you need to educate yourself about Firearms before you make comments like the ones below:
1) None of the Firearms used in any recent "Mass-Killing" were "high powered".
The AR-15 clones used in the shootings were .223s or very "low powered" normally used for target shooting or small game.
2) Armor Piercing Rounds are illegal for the average civilian to own or purchase and are not readily available.
3) There is no problem with "multi round" Firearms, the overwhelming majority of Firearms (Shotguns, Rifles, Pistols) are "Multi-Round".
Logical, educated people will not take you or your opinion seriously if you are not even aware of the basic facts involved in this issue.
Maybe you don't care about that?
- Signed, a logical, college educated(BSME) person, who lives in a Blue state and does not own any Firearms.
If we have learned anything about the difference between a liberal and a conservative it is that conservatives base their debate on facts while liberals base their debate on emotion.
And that can't be disputed. Conservatives will present facts such as number of guns owned, current laws already on the books (but not enforced), number of events per 100,000 guns owned, etc.
What do liberals do? Without facts they say such things as "how many children need to die" or "if we can save just ONE life" or "you don't NEED an AR-15 to hunt" or "you don't NEED more than 10 rounds". Notice that liberals have no facts. Have no logical analysis of what the problem is and what the solutions might be (and their expected outcome).
But liberal "emotion" without facts is widespread such as "the rich should pay their fair share", "Republicans don't care about children or the elderly", "we must use less oil or the polar bears will have no ice left to live", "fracking will ruin our drinking water", and the list goes on and on.
It is very difficult for conservatives to have a rational discussion with a liberal because they won't stay on topic. They won't stay on fact. How do you know when a liberal is losing an argument? They refer to simply calling someone stupid or an idiot. I expect to be called both within just a few minutes but that is what you get when an uninformed and illogical liberal can only use "emotion" to try and win an argument.
12thman
How true, same with the Colorado incident. How quickly the media changes things to suit our dictators agendas.
If the NRA was so evil and gun owners so crazy all the anti gun nuts would be dead. I wonder what political party the shooters belonged to? We already know they were on meds.
Automobiles kill more american kids then guns. Where is the regulation and ban on them?
Finally, Obama's plan to stimulate the economy is having results.
To RobWI:
Freedom- yes, I am free. Free of your paranoia about the government coming to take away my guns. No denseness here- seeing very clearly thank you.
Newsflash- nothing's going to happen except a few new restrictions here and there. They are not going to go through the millions of gun registrations out there, round up the names of all gun owners, then send agents out to millions of homes to confiscate their guns. It isn't practical as it would create a logistical nightmare that would be very expensive to undertake. Time to get real!
That's how crazy and divorced from reality the far right gun kooks are - 20 children (babies!) mowed down, murdered in a hail of bullets, and the first thing they think is "Wow! I better buy a few more guns!"
Here's another thought: Buy a gun when you really want to own one. Buy it with your head on straight, with the idea that you want to use it for sport, hobby, collection (hopefully for a good reason) and make sure it's within budget. Get training to use it and own it responsibly. Don't get caught up in the current hype that 'someone's coming to get your guns' nonsense. Guaranteed: After all the hooplah calms down a few notches people will still be able to own their guns. Then watch as the market floods with weaponry that people bought for erroneous reasons and you can save a dime or two on the weapon of your choice. Just give it time.
Gun-ban talks are the best thing that keeps on happening for the US gun industry.
Caput,
I don't buy it, but I'll always listen to and consider a respectful point of view. From my perspective, the government can pretty much do whatever it pleases as long as there are basic civillian needs met: plentiful distraction in the form of employment, endless entertainment, and divisive politics, and plentiful food. Divisive issues keep the legitimate votes rolling in (as well as campaign dollars) as well as provide a means of distraction. Government has no need to fear gun owners so long as they are distracted and fed. The threat of armed insurrection hasn't stopped the whole-sale, shameless stripping of basic rights so far.
Denver Bill,
It's also a fallacy to assume that someone has that intent without declaration of intent. I've never declared my intentions of chopping my arm off and I assure you I harbor no such unspoken intentions of doing so. I'm confronting the folk who assume confiscation is the end game without providing a reason for thinking that way.
Once again, a ban even on possession, does not automatically mean confiscation. That is the paranoid worry I keep hearing, and quite frankly I don't understand why.
fishman,
You are talking about a local or state government. The president has minimal sway over cities' or states' government. Yes, in this case NYC was in the wrong, because federal law overrides state law. (I wonder how this incident fits with the conservative value of states' rights.)
History for the federal government has no incidence of confiscation that I am aware of. And that was the topic of conservation.
I'm thinking about all of those guns sitting in closets around the country. And while you are off at Walmart someone id going through your house taking them. And where did the thieves get their guns?
Bloomberg Unveils Videos of Arizona Gun Show Sting - WNYC
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
How does one eat an elephant, one bite at a time fellow patriots!
Profreedom, if this is your only thought on the issue I can see why you find it ridiculous. Here's a more realistic scenario for thought; let's say while at the doctors with your kid and the doctor ask you if you have a gun in your home, incidentally one of Obama's most recent EO's. Before you have a chance to provide a wise answer, your child blurts out, "Yeah he does, and it's big, black, and it holds a bunch of bullits too." The doctor bound by Obama Care to report it and the next thing you know it's knock, knock time, it's bye-bye AR, and place your hands behind your back citizen. If prosecuted, you'd lose your right to vote and the right to ever own a firearm again. It's called attrition, one down and millions more to go, set them up and then knock them down!
What our fellow patriots in New York have just experienced is an abonimation. A political travisty, that cannont stand as it was concieved behind closed doors and as such it violates our Sunshine Laws, it blatantly infringes upon gun ownership and as such it violates the 2nd Amendment, it violates the privacy rights for those under the Individuals with Disabilities Act, and in the scenario above it forces self incrimination and as such violates the 5th Amendment.
Keep your head buried in the sand if you like, that is still your right for the time being!
JD- your statements underscore the current paranoia. I'm poking fun at the fear that runs rampant, not the rights of a person to protect their home. Try getting some reading glasses and see between the lines. Your defensiveness over this subject reveals the insecurity. And that is 'freedom'? I am quite free of the tyranny of your paranoia so the screen name stays. As far as my capabilitiesto defendmyself, family, home- it is quite intact and my veterans status is nobody's business- probably wouldn't believe me anyway.
Damned if he did and and damned if he didn't. If our President did nothing about the escalating gun violence, you'd still complain, probably louder. Your doing something constructive besides bitch would be more helpful.
ProBusiness, I love how you make the Conservatives sound like the rational ones....lol! That's funny, especially after the set back in the last election. But seriously, the extreme conservs and the extreme libs are just plain fools. Moderates need to speak up and take over the conversation!
Then 4 post down from the above post:
ROFL. Pedestrian you just validated what ProBusiness was saying. LOL
@Caput, Your name pretty much sums up the position you are in concerning your guns. Hope NC doesn't try to pull a stunt like that here. I personally don't think we HAVE to have assault weapons , but I believe that banning assault weapons is the first step to taking away other guns. And banning assault weapons won't do anything considering how very few deaths are caused by them compared to knives and hammers and handguns.
Chicago is going to ban High energy power drinks. I'll be interested to see if this works as well as their ban on guns has.
Instead of banning "assault weapons" why doesn't he just ban "murder" with guns of course wouldn't that be simpler.
mozzie-600
Escalating????? you do realize that ALL crime is DOWN over the past 20 years.. guns included. Mass shootings have remained ON AVERAGE the same in both number and body count. ALL of the "mass" shootings except the one in AZ have been in "gun free victim zones" The FEW places that shootings have remained the same or INCREASED have been in places that have SEVERE restrictions on gun ownership. People may be CRAZY but they aren't stupid.... they will assault people who they are fairly certain won't be capable of fighting back with equal power...
Talk about something completely backfiring. I knew this would happen. They should have known, too! Next come bullet proof vests for everyone, and helmets, too. - RC
Much of the logic driving these sales is based on the notion of the prisoners dilemma.
Let's have a thought experiment.
Let's say you have ten people in a bubble. All ten of them know none of the other has a gun. Everybody is safe and has a zero chance of being shot. Yipee! But now let's say nobody knows whether any of the other nine has a gun. Somebody eventually buys a gun. Suddenly, everybody has a non-zero chance of being shot. By purchasing a gun, that person has made themselves (and everybody else) less safe, but that one person feels more safe. Now somebody else suspects somebody just bought a gun, so they get one. The risk to the community increases. People are making themselves less safe statistically, but feeling "more safe".
Prag,
Your experiment is so stupid. LMFAO!!!
Liberals. God love em!
Bobster,
If you can't understand the thought experiment, you can't understand gun ownership. You have demonstrated you don't get it. Maybe you shouldn't be debating it!
Prag,
I understand it and it's still dumb! LMFAO!
Liberals. God love em! LOL!
Pragmatic-3918582
In some of these sales the buyers are looking at making a profit. The deal that sold me mine a couple of years ago contacted me and asked if I want to sell it.. he told me he would DOUBLE the price. I told him no.
Times,
Ownership for sale makes you a merchant, not a gun owner in a traditional sense. It doesn't fit into the thought experiment. But the point is well taken.
Don't waste your money on bullet proof vests - 5/8th inch steel is way cheaper, and much more effective.
I wonder if Pragmatic is willing to hang a sign on his house proclaiming "NO GUNS HERE!"...
Prag: You miss one very important point in your bubble theory. One of the 10 unarmed individuals is stronger and wants your shoes. Since he is the strongest, 9 now live in fear each day.
Prag,
Read Keepitsimple's comment above, my thoughts exactly. This is the real world we live in, not a fantasy world where everyone respects everyone else, otherwise there would be no crime at all. Your thought experiment is laughable, as Bob put it (albeit not so eloquently).
This has turned people into paranoid maniacs!
Now they're rushing gun stores buying up everything in sight! Gun makers & dealers will just continue getting richer. People will just end up owning a bunch of weaponry they'll do nothing with but pretend they're a little 'safer'
99% of the people buying guns already own guns.
No Bingo were buying them to protect ourselves from the hopefully few uneducated people like yourself!
So the hillbilly retards are buying even more guns.... Big Surpise!! LOL LOL LOL
Thats really insightful HaggASS, got anymore intelligent statements?
Yup, us Hillbilly retards will need them to protect ourselves and the sheeple when they come begging for help.
keep it simple interjected reality into Prag's experiment, you can not do that in the kum by ya world of socialist ideology.
All it would take is two of the ten people to agree on what would be best for the other eight by forcing their will on each individual until the one person that wanted to maintain their individual freedom would be castigated for not doing what is best for the "group". Even though it is only "best" for those two that initiated the consortium.
Now, if that individual has a weapon that equalizes the difference of opinion, all bets are off until the consortium can neutralize the equalizer.
Hag,
Its happening all over the country. Not only hillbillies are buying.
Pragmatic...............suppose one of the unarmed people in your "bubble' is a big mean bully and kicks the @!$%# out of some of the others. Now who feels safe???
Ironic how so many read what is not there in the Constitution but fail to read "well regulated" It says nothing about private sell rights, "keep and bare" Since only It says nothing about the type or all arms, it says "arms" the "s" is plural, which the no.2 qualifies as plural. Reagan, Bush, and Romney all supported the last assault rifle ban in 1994 which was deemed Constitutional by the Supreme Court, which Supreme Court had only one democrat appointed judge, Romney also went on to sign into law an assault weapon ban in his state as Govenor, I guess it's a liberal thing. The Supreme Court ruling holds presidence.
ChrisWanker, That's not true. I have to friends that own gun stores. I hang out in them a lot. Most people coming in to buy handguns and semi-auto rifles have never owned a gun. Our state requires a hand gun safety card to buy a hand gun, almost every one of their hand gun sales the person wasn't even aware of that. Almost every purchaser of any firearm was unaware of the 10 day waiting period.
I'm not so sure that's the only 'backfire' that will be experienced. I've got a feeling some of the buyers of AR-15 pattern rifles are going to end up less than well-off in the end.
The US Rifle, Caliber 5.56mm, M16 has really been a very good service rifle, not counting some of the very early issues experienced in the harsh Vietnam jungle environment. However, M16 rifles are all supposed to be, and usually are, built to the same military specifications and Uncle Sam is a picky buyer. He doesn't purchase anything too fancy unless it's critical for the application, but what he buys for service rifles is going to be good. In contrast, no AR-15 type autoloader rifles are built to military 'spec'. Some come closer than others, but quality and durability are all over the place. Some are quite good, others, eh, not so much! Some were meant for professional users, such as law enforcement, and the price reflects that. Others are built to a price point for the non-critical requirements of the hobbyist rifleman who is not likely to be engaging in a gunfight with that rifle, and again, the intended price reflects that. You get what you pay for, normally, though now a lot of bottom end AR-15 type rifles -and parts- are selling for what the top of the line used to.
At least new rifles are generally going to work. One mixed blessing of the M16/AR-15 is that tools are typically not required for most maintenance operations, or only the most basic tools anyone can easily come up with. You don't need to be a gunsmith to have the tools necessary to dismantle most of an AR-15! Thousands of aftermarket parts are available for the AR-15, and they are very readily swapped about. I have long advised that no one buy a used AR-15 pattern rifle from anyone they don't know well who will personally guarantee it. It is very common for used 'AR's' to not function correctly, especially when they start to get hot in use. Sending the rifle back to the manufacturer will often result in a bill for hundreds of dollars when their armorer rips out all of the defective parts that they determine to not be theirs and replaces them with the correct ones.
Anyone who has been stuck with a defective AR-15 rifle recently has probably also just parted with it and profited rather handsomely, assuming that they knew their rifle was defective. Often times it's not noticeable until some stress is put on it, but if you don't fire it, or only fire a few slow shots through it, you'll never know. If the day comes when you really need it for holding off a large gang closing in on you (looters, for instance), that'll be a heck of a time to discover it fails to feed or extract after a few rounds are sent down the tube in rapid succession.
Magazines are a notorious weakness of the AR-15 and many or most other autoloaders, dating back to WWII or earlier when semi-disposable detachable magazines began showing up in military designs. There are a couple of known good M16/AR-15 magazines available, including (surprise, surprise) genuine Colt and US government issue magazines. A few others have 'good' reputations, and most others are nothing but trouble. Knowledgeable AR-15 users have the best stuff, and they stocked up on good magazines years ago. Everyone who just ran out to buy whatever they can get are the ones who end up with magazines that do not feed reliably.
The M16/AR-15 is a somewhat complex design meant to be tended to by military armorers. In private hands, either it's a D-I-Y proposition or else you go to a gunsmith. It's not rocket science, but it's somewhat formidable for the novice. I can't think of another common commercial rifle that has an equivalent weakness to the AR-15's ability to be assembled with the bolt cam pin omitted. Without this, the bolt will not rotate into the closed and locked position. Most of the time, the rifle will not fire. However, sometimes it will, and if it does, that bolt isn't locked! A blown up rifle is the usual result. The inexperienced can get into some real trouble tinkering with an AR-15 if they're not careful!
It used to be that all AR-15's were .223 Remington or 5.56mm NATO, but those days are long gone, and some potential problems now abound. One that can catch a lot of people by surprise is the relatively new .300 'Blackout' cartridge which was achieved by trimming back a .223 case a bit and enlarging the mouth from .22 caliber to .30 caliber. Unlike some other alternative 'AR' cartridges, like te 6.8 SPC, the .300 uses standard AR-15 magazines, not special ones. If you have a .300 rifle, or else a .300 upper receiver and barrel installed on it, inserting a magazine full of .223/5.56 by accident could lead to some interesting results. Maybe not as interesting as feeding a magazine of .300 into a standard 5.56mm rifle, though!!
AR-15's are NOT a good rifle for a novice who has little to no previous firearms experience, and compared to the standard lever or bolt action hunting rifle, it's a whole new ballgame where a lot of curve balls are pitched to the unaware. It'll be interesting to see how all the new AR-15 owners and (maybe) users fare...
vrt1986, Read the entire constitution, pay attention the punctuation, and wording of every amendment and the preamble. Well regulated to them meant well balanced between the people and the state. If you think that it means only for military, then you have to take the first as it is worded. Which means you only have freedom of speech against the government. The English language was different back then.
Look at a proven record for mandatory gun ownership in this county. Crime has gone down cause criminals know ever household has a gun.
Vic, Keep, Patriot, Rob, usa,
It's game theory. Google is your friend.
Wikipedia
I Have a Solve to these Shootings!
Gun Owners, myself included, lets be responsible. Lets remove our firing pins if we have a possibly mentally ill individual living at our home. Take your firing pin with you to work. This 1 step not only keeps our constitution 100% intact, but it also prevents any type of theif or otherwise from using your weapon in an assault. As soon as you get home - drop your firing pin back into your weapon - It takes all of 2 minutes.
This is a comprimise that liberals and conservatives should find acceptable.
Pragmatic - your game is flawed. Game theory is typically done to view collusion vs competition. In this instance their is only to collude or to defect. Your instance has a multitude of risks un-accounted for. I would agree your game is legitimate if guns were the only way to kill someone. Also note that game theory typically ends in the efficient position which is everyone defecting, in your case ( everyone buys a gun )
Game theory is awesome though. I had to take an entire class on it during college - are you grim or tit-for-tat? =)
FreedomOverSympathy
I am neither conservative or liberal... just me...
Removing the firing pin presumes we are all some sort of gunsmith.. What is to prevent a "disturbed" individual from learning how to replace the firing pin... They may be "crazy" but they aren't stupid.
What good does a self defense firearm do one when it is disabled for 1-2 minutes?
I keep my firearm secured when it is not under my immediate control. That would be when I am in a gun free victim zone.
Perhaps some you gun nuts should read up on the wild west. You are now living in Dodge City and you just fired your sherrif.
Why you do not want to get shot with an M16...(Warning: Disturbing photograph)
Trust Verify - This comment is more based at semi-automatic assault styled rifles. The comment clearly implies that if you take the firing pin with you to work - it cannot be replaced. Moreover, if you do not know how to remove your firearms firing pin - then learn .... if you cannot learn - then sell your firearm to me. Also I agree on the home defense weapon, but if you are using an AR / AK style weapon as your home defense gun .... you know very little about the use of weaponry. I think you and I will both agree a shotgun is a much better weapon to be used for home defense.
Also realize I do not want to make this mandatory - rather just giving responsible gun owners a way to keep their weapon in check when they are not home. Moreover once again the post states that as soon as you get back home to replace the firing pin - making it a good home defense weapon - as it is fully operational for any potential threats.
Collecting Beenie Babie
Collecting Guns
A month ago...they were all out buying TWINKIES
I still want to know who the two guys the police caught in the woods were. Why no one in the police department is coming forward to say why two men in camo were seen running from the school into the woods as they showed up. Why would two men in camo even be in the woods around a school? Did they have Federal papers or diplomatic immunity, WTF? Why did the one guy get put in the front of a police car? If our government or some other group is involved WE SHOULD KNOW ABOUT IT.
I would also like to know about the little girl that was supposed to be dead, was not in any of the class pictures, but had her picture taken with the President AFTER the shooting. Her "father" was the one caught on camera laughing and then preparing himself to look sad before he began to talk. He must not have realized they were live at the time. There are plenty of videos out there, just do a search.
It might sound cold, but none of the parents I saw interviewed seemed like they lost a child to me. I do not remember even one of them crying or shedding tears. Some of the worst acting I have ever seen. The way they talked about their children was like their child had been dead for 10 years or so and not recently killed.
The one gun I saw them pull out of the trunk however looked like a shotgun to me with a pistol grip. The round that came out when the cop cleared it was big like a shotgun shell and it was also not a shiny metal case like most handgun or rifle ammo is. Only snipers bother to paint their rounds black or green.
I question if the theater shooter was not set up too since both their fathers are involved in the Libor scandal. Many corporations, governments, groups, etc. have killed more people for less money. Him waiting outside then telling them about the booby traps does not seem logical. Why would he not try to run away and stand there like a zombie? Why would the school shooter kill himself after "hearing" the police coming? Hard to hear anything after shooting that many rounds out of a rifle indoors. If he had earplugs in he would not have heard the police unless they were yelling and shouting.
The Occupy movement scared the crap out of our leaders and politicians. Had it gotten more momentum we could have caused some actual change in our government, but they nipped it in the bud before it could take hold villainizing those that dared to protest. They killed a couple people back then and used them as the reason to tear down the camps. Now it is no longer legal to peacefully protest without getting permits.
They are only worried about their money and staying in power no matter the cost to the people or the country. It was bad enough for them when it was peaceful, if however it had turned violent then we might have a new government or still be fighting a war, and that really scared the crap out of them. A new government might not support Israel leaving them high and dry, which really scares the crap out of them.
haggisbingo-2225582 Comment collapsed by the community
So the "guber" is posting more drivel... Big Surprise!! LOL LOL LOL
You are right. The people buying many of these guns already own guns.
As I was filling out my permit to carry I'm a little confused though as to what to put down for a reason. It's not for hunting or protection, I already have enough guns for that. But somehow I don't think spite would be a good answer but its the same reason I'm going to buy an AR-15. To basically say screw you anti-gun freaks.
Tired-2176559.
It doesn't sound cold, it sounds delusional, all of it... but I suspect you already know that.
FreedomOverSympathy
AR and AK "style" weapons are both available in 9mm which would be perfectly acceptable for home defense.
4.33
Tired-2176559
GOOD GRIEF
How amazingly inept you are not to have seen that even Glenn Beck debunked your nonsense.
YOU ARE A TROLL of the worst kind spewing that made up garbage from Alex Jones...the crazy conspiracy theorist.
Psychologists point your kind out as mentally unstable for aligning yourself with him.
A little bit of reseach and you could have saved yourself the embarassment of posting the nit-wit-nonsense.
Don't do it again.
It is mean, hurtful, and an indication that you need HELP.
FreedomOverSympathy
The firing pin can not be removed from my revolver.
??? I can buy an AR firing pin online for 7 bucks no questions asked. http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Firing-Pin-AR15-p/firing%20pin%20ar15.htm
Precisely. The unaccounted for risks are just a matter of keeping things simple for this discussion. Apparently it wasn't simple enough!
Shamelessly tit-for-tat.
RIMom - That is the reason why its a good idea to screen gun buyers for mental health issues...
DANG
With the recent rush to buy weaponry ...too bad there wasn't a stiff TAX on all those bullets and guns ..... to pay off the debt.
.
Ironic...the paranoid buy military style weapons...but, not brave enough to have enlisted for Iraq & Afghanistan.
.
..
FACT:
In the past decade of sustained fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan, 0.5 percent of the American public has been on active duty at any given time, compared to nearly 9 percent during World War II.
.
.
Yet Alex Jones, Keene & LaPierre have NRA militia supporters ready to take down the "maybe" terrorists in their neighborhoods....
.
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Hypocrites...cowards...and "cult" followers, .... conspiracty theorists.....truthers.... birthers......... with weapons.... and they think they are "civilized"
people are being hoodwinked. there will be no ban on assault rifles and by the end of the year they will be back down to their normal price. the NRA and the gun industry is making a killing by scaring people that their guns will be taken away or they won't be able to buy their ar-15. the most that has any chance of passing is enhanced background checks and maybe some legislation to curb the mentally ill from buying guns
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QjZY3WiO9s
Dear NRA,
Show this at the next PTA meeting.....
All you gun owners will be proud when we suddenly look like Israel. Keep up the gun buying and we will be just like the Middle East countries!!
Pragmatic-3918582
People who don't know how to think aren't likely to understand a thought experiment.
5 percent: America's population
relative to the world population.
50 percent: Amount of the guns on Earth owned
by Americans, CNN reports.
65 percent: The portion
of guns in America owned by just 20 percent of gun owners. When we debate
gun control, there is the inevitable claim that gun ownership is a cherished
tradition held by a vast portion of the country.
Lethality
47 percent increase: The change in the number of people
wounded seriously enough by gunshots to require a hospital stay from 2001 to
2011. In 2001, 20,844 people suffered gunshot wounds that serious. In 2011, it
was 30,759, The
Wall Street Journal reports.
But the murder rate is going down?
Why is that? Because hospitals have gotten better at treating traumatic wounds.
13.96 percent: Share of gunshot wound victims who died
in 2010.
2 percentage point
decrease: The change
in the share of gunshot wound victims who died in 2010 compared to just three
years earlier. Data from previous years was measured differently, so is
impossible to compare, the Journal says.
62: Number of mass murders in America since
1982.
Three-quarters: Portion of guns involved in mass murders
that were obtained legally, Mother
Jones reports. Semi-automatic handguns were by far the weapon of
choice, followed by assault rifles.
Political implications
20 percent: Amount male ownership of
guns has decreased since 1980. White males are a shrinking portion of the
electorate. They are the clear targets of gun ads. Here's a Christmas
ad for a .223-calibre Bushmaster, the carbine used in the Newtown school
shooting.
56 percent: Portion of white men who oppose stricter
gun control laws, The
Washington Post's Greg Sargent points out. And 53 percent of
non-college educated whites oppose such laws.
10 percent: Portion of women who
own guns.
54 percent: Portion of Americans who favor stricter
gun control laws, according to a new ABC News poll.
59 percent: Portion of women who
support stricter gun control laws, ABC finds.
60 percent to 39 percent: Americans in living in the West who
support more gun control versus those in the West who do not. Support for more
gun control has a pretty clear
regional divide, with the South, as you might expect, being most hostile to
new gun laws.
Southerners opposed gun control by 50 percent to 46 percent.
Midwesterners are split, with 49 percent wanting more gun control and 48
percent opposed to it.
And in the Northeast, 67 percent want more gun control,
while 31 percent don't. The South is by far the most violent part of the
country, Kieran
Healy points out at right.
1 million: The number
of concealed-and-carry permit holders Florida will reach in the next few days.
52 percent: Americans who support a national ban on
semi-automatic weapons.
My God, man, listen to yourself. Have you ever lost a child? Do you even know what happens when you lose a child? I am repulsed by your total lack of understanding. We go into shock for about a year, for one thing. We aren't even remotely the same people even years later. How DARE you judge a grieving parent when you don't know squat about it. I find that post reprehensible. These conspiracy theories make me think a lot more people should not own weapons, there is some mental instability there.
Gun BACKGROUND Check Application should have a CONSPIRACY THEORIST question.... because those truthers are stocking up arsenals in their bunkers.
@Freedomoversymapthy "Also I agree on the home defense weapon, but if you are using an AR / AK style weapon as your home defense gun .... you know very little about the use of weaponry. I think you and I will both agree a shotgun is a much better weapon to be used for home defense."
What if the bad guy has on a bulletproof vest without an insert a level 1-3, or does not have a thick enough plate of steel plate of steel strapped to their chest? The small little .223 has pretty decent penetration due to its velocity out of a long enough barrel and it can produce a decent wound channel with hollowpoint or fragmenting (close range only) FMJ ammo. It also has way less recoil compared to a 12 gauge shotgun and is easier to shot. I can also step outside my house and transition to 100, 200, 300 yards with the same gun even with iron sights and the same ammo. It also holds way more rounds meaning I do not have to fumble for extra shells or mags in the dark in my underwear if need be, and was cheaper then a good semi-auto shotgun. It is still not a .308 however or something larger and is just big enough to get the job done.
If need be a can hunt at longer ranges then you can with your smoothbore shotgun. Mine and other ARs can shoot MOA or better with decent ammo from rests, which is better then most people can aim as I am sure you know. I do not have a "hunting" rifle and am not into hunting atm and deer do not shoot back. I do have lots of feral hogs around where I live however and almost want something bigger then a .223 for some of them since they can get quite big. Never had to shot one yet though and try to avoid them.
Ammo is also cheaper for the .223/5.56, each round is also lighter, and I can carry more of them if I ever had to backpack somewhere. My AR/AK hybrid only weighs around 5 pounds which means I can carry more food, water, ammo, etc. if need be, uses a piston like an AK which makes it easier to clean. I have a .bolt action 22 LR for small game/birds if need be, but mainly just use it to target practice.
If you only have the money for one gun they "used" to be a good deal before the prices went nuts. If you actually get a true "AR" then you can swap out the upper for one of a different caliber and save half the money of buying an entire "new" gun.
I know how to take out the firing pin, striker, etc. and that would suck on many semi-auto guns. It would also add wear and tear to the gun if you did it each and every day. You should have a spare firing pin anyway just in case yours breaks. Why not take the gun with you instead and leave it in your car? Have a safe or something bolted in the trunk if you are worried about it getting stolen out of your car.
Unless I know children are going to be coming over and staying I do not even put on the gun locks that I have for each of my guns. I also do not keep a round loaded in the chamber most of the times just in case someone (me) picks it up or squeezes the trigger by accident. I also do not have to worry about setback or any other B.S. that comes from loading and unloading an uncrimped bullet over and over. I can chamber a round pretty quick and quietly if needed. It just takes slightly more time then what is needed to flick a safety off.
I believe the archaic definition for 'well regulated' that was being used meant 'consistent'. In the old world, only the wealthy and nobility (usually one and the same, actually) had the firearms and swords while the peasantry was customarily, legally, and economically restricted to ax handles and broomsticks. A man of 'low blood' with a sword was itching to end his days in the dungeon or at the end of a rope as weaponry was very much a status symbol and royalty or nobility didn't exactly see imitation as the sincerest form of flattery but more as an insult or mockery. In the United States, the limitation really was economic; if you didn't have a musket, fowling piece, or rifle, it was because you were not yet wealthy enough to justify the expense of acquiring one. Beyond that, every tax paying citizen (land owner) was entitled to have one. An invading foreign army, which the young United States had plenty of experience with, could expect to encounter militiamen defending their home turf with 100% effort no matter where they went and couldn't avoid it by merely staying away from enclaves of the wealthy and trampling over the commoners as they could in Europe.
That's not an all bad idea, really. Not entirely practical, but it can be adapted easily enough as I long have. The basic step, of course, is to lock up your firearms and ammunition separately! But there is nothing wrong with securing seldom used guns (ones you're not keeping handy for immediate use!) by storing them partially disassembled and securing a critical component or two somewhere else. Honestly, I don't mess with firing pins. But my pistols are stored long term minus magazines and barrels, and my single action revolver has it's cylinder locked up elsewhere. Barrels and mags cost more than a few dollars to replace, and cylinders are not sold by the factory. They're numbered to match the frame and the whole gun must be returned to the factory to have a new cylinder fitted. Bolt action rifles have bolts stored separately. and anything else that can't be readily field stripped is secured with trigger or cable locks. An unauthorized entry into the vault just gets more and more frustrating who anyone who's able to do it.
For competent users of AR-15 type rifles, one advantage the design has is that the Bolt Carrier Group is very easy to remove. The rifle can't be used without it, and a new one isn't cheap. These days, a new one might not be available anywhere, either.
Not a lot. Which is why personal protection firearms need to be secured while reliably accessible by an authorized user(s), and there's a number of good ways to do that. But even that will take at least some time to get through. Having the means to be alerted to trouble before it's a true immediate crisis is very important, time is your friend! Good doors and locks, a dog, or some type of alarm system is critical. If someone is able to get in and get to you before you know they're there, no weapon you could hope to have is likely to do you much good! If you have a firearm for that purpose, it is a threat management tool, not a security solution, and you need to have a solid security plan in place in which your gun is the last line of defense after all other measures have failed.
That is very, very true. I would not want to fire any high powered rifle indoors! I would not want to fire any handgun hotter than a .38 Special with a 4" barrel indoors if it could be helped, either. My personal selection is a reliable 12 gauge police riot shotgun loaded with No. 1 buckshot.
I wouldn't want to use one, though! Last I knew, Colt dropped the 9mm in an AR platform some time back. The other companies that have offered it are not known for reliable, quality products! They may work for the hobbyist to whom a jam or other failure is a minor inconvenience, but I sure wouldn't want to stake my life on one! A lot of the adaptations of the 'AR' platform are just that - adaptations. They virtually never work 100% satisfactorily. Let's face it, when you're trying to make something do something it wasn't designed to do in the first place, what do you expect?
Yes, you can. Assuming you had acquired an ill-gotten AR-15, first you'd have to know the firing pin was missing. Most people who don't own one aren't familiar enough to notice this through inspection, and many would first learn of it when they pointed the thing at a police officer and pulled the trigger only to have the rifle go 'click' instead of 'bang'. Then they would learn the hard way that the officers' sidearms are fully functional. A missing firing pin would thwart most of the unauthorized users of an AR-15 pattern rifle you own if it were to fall into the wrong hands somehow.
The rush isn't big enough to come anywhere close to paying off trillions of dollars of debt, but the tax that's been on firearms and ammunition since before 1920 has been about 10-11%.
There are actually quite a few veterans who purchase AR-15 type rifles, as it is very, very similar to what they were familiar with in service. This is nothing new; most American hunting rifles were lever action until after WWI, when returning veterans bought turnbolt rifles similar to the M1903 'Springfield' and M1917 'Eddystone' rifles they carried during their time in the trenches of France.
@RI Mom so there is not video from a helicopter that shows the two men in camo? One being taken into custody? The other was taken into custody at a fire station. The police radio did not have them chasing after two men running from the school? Maybe get your head out of your a$$ and stop drinking the cool aid the media is feeding you?
4.52
Delusional Truthers . . . .
Hope the F B I is watching you.... because the people of CONNECTICUT are damn sick of your stupidy....
If you are so convinced of your conspiracy theories...go to Connecticut...and PROVE IT.
http://www.salon.com/2013/01/18/your_comprehensive_answer_to_every_sandy_hook_conspiracy_theory/
Interesting how irrational TRUTHERS (Tired-2176559) are.... they just troll the internet looking for the conspiracy sites.
What a waste of life.
@ miklkit
Yeah, that is a nasty leg wound. So what is your point? Getting shot with any gun will pretty much ruin your day. If he had been shot in the leg with a 2 3/4", 3", or 3 1/2" 00 buckshot round they would probably be fitting him for a prosthetic instead of trying to treat his leg wound.
@ RI Mom
You don't like guns so (this applies to all gun grabbers):
1. Don't buy one
2. Don't associate with anyone who owns one
3. Don't go near a gun store/gun range
No one is forcing you to like firearms. No one is forcing you to own a gun. No one is forcing you to go anywhere near one. Don't worry about how people spend their own money & what they spend it on, it's none of your business.
Just like pro-gun people can't force you to own a gun (they don't have any desire to do so), anti-gun people shouldn't be able to prevent honest, law abiding citizens from owning guns.
It's quite simple really. All of you gun grabbers need to mind your own damn business & leave law abiding citizens who legally purchase their guns alone. If someone breaks the law while using a gun, which makes them a criminal, then you can go after them all you want.
FreedomOverSympathy
damn long thread .. sorry for delaying the response...
Now why would I get rid of my firearm? You missed my point.. not everyone is a gunsmith... to remove the firing pin on my semi is NOT as simple as you make it sound.. I may as well leave it disassembled at that point...
I think the AR/AK are USELESS for home defense... on my shopping list are the Judge and a pump action shotgun. And YES I know the shotgun CAN hit my neighbors living room from mine with intervening walls.. not likely to miss what I am aiming for though as I believe in using it to sweep the floors in close quarters. That defeats most body armor that someone may be wearing.
I believe in the KISS method.. I live in a relatively "safe" area... the ONLY time my firearm is NOT under my direct control is when I sleep or am in the shower.. when I have to enter a gun free zone I keep it locked up.. WHEN I obtain my long guns they will be locked away as well except when I have a need for them... removing the firing pins would make about as much sense as removing the distributor cap (or the modern computer BS) from my vehicle every time I leave it parked. I don't HAVE a minute or two when I want to drive or defend myself... turn a key in less than 5 seconds is far better. The key came with the vehicle and gun locks can be had for the asking never mind mine came with the firearm. When it reaches a point where I am concerned about leaving my abode or vehicle without disabling it, it will be time to MOVE or look into MAKING it a safe place once again.
My best performing stocks now are Ruger and Smith&Wesson. Too bad I cannot find a pure stock play on ammo
manufacturing. Maybe Tula and Izhevsk are publically traded...
My gun dealer had a deal on a Berretta 93FS + 2/15 round clips. I'll call him up and take it.
As someone who works with stocks on the daily - if rugers (rgr) is your best performing stock - you need to call me up, because currently rgr is 1 of my portfolio's worst performing. I currently have a stock that has produced a 12% return in 44 days. I would give out its Ticker - but I plan to buy more of it in the very near future, and I do not want its price skyrocketing before I buy more.
I still have 5- 30rd mags for a Mini-14 I never bought simple because Clinton went on a "let's disarm America" kick and outlawed them.
Best performing stock? I hope you are not planning on funding your retirement with your keen Wall Street savvy. S&W is currently listed as "avoid" by some analysts. Simple test: compare S&W performance with ticker symbol "E". If you were an investment counselor, you would be homeless.
I will say - Phantom3 is far from spot on. RGR is not a bad stock to have right now - and that "avoid" means nothing. RGR isn't a horrible stock - but it shouldn't be your best performing stock either. Something to consider, if an assault weapon ban is implemented (big if) RGR will be a great stock. Consider the Clinton ban days - what was the big "cool gun" then? it was the Mini 14. And comparing a gun stock to an oil stock is just retarded. Its like comparing a bubblegum company to an automobile manufacture. You should be comparing to either another similar company - or to the industry average. Furthermore selecting stocks should be done off first fundemntal analysis, and secondly technical analysis.
Just ordered 10 tins each of 7.62 X 39 and 5.56. 770 rds per tin.
Also have enough brass, bullets, and primers to keep me going for awhile.
Easily sent over 5k each down range last year in competition/practice. Camp Perry comp easily eats up 1k.
FOS
I can analyze data as well, which is why I pointed out that S&W stock is a poor selection. I said nothing about RGR. Its "fundamentals" are superior (right now) to S&W. But, neither should be the keystone to your portfolio. Agree?
This is all showing its true colors first 9/11 inside job to take away our rights that includes a law that now our government can lock us up at anytime as long is they put a word with it and that is called terrorism this agenda is way bigger than obama some how they will take away our guns away all it will have to take is a couple more shootings they know this to control people all u need is fear and that is what they did with 9/11 WAKE UP PEOPLE supposedly all these conspiracy theorist are turning out to be right and right on schedule with there predictions quit being programmed by these fake news channels that our owned by kissinger and the rothchilds they tell you and promote what they want you to see or hear next will me marshall law and when your getting shoved into these fema camps just like the jewish people did your gonna wonder why all this happen while your eyes were wide open it is because they keep you entertained with next drug addict celebrity or who is getting married or divorce wake up use your brain and quit being a mindless robot being programmed by tv
Phantom I 100% agree.
SRK-2447627
Are you enjoying living off your blood money? It's really sad that the gun industry makes a big profit off of every one of these massacres. After Tucson, and after Aurora, the gun nuts also rushed out to buy their favorite weapon of mass destruction before the gummint could take them away.
@anti-nwo
If you think some assault weapons will 'save' you from some vast government conspiracy, ask a soldier who has actually seen war action. My son is just one of many soldiers who know exactly how to go into a fully armed house with insurgents and take them ALL. Your piddly arsenal would do nothing to stop them. Not that it would ever happen here, I think that is just ridiculous and a little unstable. You need to get a grip.
All,
Whether you are Pro-Guns or Not, you need to read the following Link from the Liberal Law School of Harvard... It is a very good study on Gun Control...
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf
lib50,
Your comment about your Son is ignorant! How many veterans do you think are out there, who possess the same, if not more knowledge about warfare then today's Military men and women... It will not come to that though, NATO forces would be used for any attempt to disarm the American Public...
Many vets feel the same way my son does. The soldiers who see real war seem to understand that military weapons don't belong in civilian hands. And nobody is coming to take your guns. The paranoia is rampant and ridiculous.
PLEASE define "military" weapon... we can have a discussion/debate once we can agree on that or "assault" weapons. THAT is the problem at the moment... the two sides can't agree on what they are debating. Last I checked the US Military uses the 1911a still as well as M14, M16 and a pump action 12 gauge shotgun.. While I can agree the m14 and 16 are "military" I would have issue putting the first and last in that category. Please don't trot out RPG's or nukes.. we BOTH know those are already restricted as are fully automatic firearms.
If an AR-15 is a military weapon please tell me which military uses it, thank you.
This is why I love America people. Tell us that you are gonna make something illegal and by the time it is, we have bought them all legally. Too bad I am here in Afgan and not home picking up one of those party favors. It should of never come this far. The responsible gun owner is not the issue but we are the ones suffering.
A background check is not suffering. Not owning something isn't suffering. You've been in Afghanistan. I would suspect you know what suffering actually is. BTW, there will not be an assault weapon ban this time. Politically won't happen. So don't worry.
NKJ86
Thank You For Your Service.
NJK85 - Thank you for your service, And I am extremely sorry that you are putting your life on the line for freedom; while its being ripped from your country. But seriously - Thank you for your service.
The commander in theif is doing everything in his power to create division amongst the citizens and weaken the USA economically and militarily and is turning the country into a powder keg waiting to be set off. When the party starts people just want to make sure they have a little something to bring. Thanks for your service. It should be a crime for the commander in theif to be sending US military perssonel to protect a traitor who helps the enemy attack U.S. troops and receives millions in U.S. cash then goes to the media condemning us. When we do finaly extricate ourselves from that S*+T Hole, and he is about to be killed or over thrown I am sure he will be begging to come to the USA! We will save some party favors for your return.
It's "should've" not "should of".
Common Sense - show some respect.
NJK85, AMEN to that brother. You take care of yourself over there and come home safe.
A little perspective: This is nothing like the 1960's with mass protests and assassinations. If ever the country were close to the brink of collapse post civil-war, it was then, not now.
What is going on right now is a few scared children with money buying toys. Back then there were riots in the streets and hundreds of thousands of people protesting in the streets.
Most of these assault weapons being sold will end up in a junk pile because they sat in a closet and rusted .
How is universal back check is not suffering?
For example if a person lets call them your partner had a gun and wanted to sell it to your neighbor, how would that back ground check work? Could your partner even legally do a background check on your neighbor? Or would your local police have to do it and how is that going to be funded?
Or how about the situation where a gun is inherited from father to child?
The free market will find a way. Login to a website, pay a nominal fee, bam, it's done. Fill out the paperwork, attach the background check, send the buyer off on their merry way, drop all that BS in the mail. The private sector does background checks for employment all the time. Not to mention background checks for loans, credit cards, etc etc.
Now THAT is a good question. It could be handled in a similar way to the neighbor. But also consider the types of guns inherited. They are often old (meaning a newer gun is more reliable) or antiques (meaning they won't be fired often or at all.)
Pragmatic-3918582
YOU are confusing private ENTERPRISE with private citizens. You are also asking for a change in federal law... FFL keep the paperwork for inspection but the fed does NOT keep a database of who bought what firearm.
apparently you don't know much about firearms... they are made to LAST a LONG time. Your premise for control is that the firearm could be used for evil... then you turn around and claim wellllll it won't work in the first place... I for one would NOT want to trust your AssUMe that an antique firearm would not fire. hell some of those OLD monsters are down right NASTY compared to modern ones.
I've related this a couple of times before, but it's worth bringing up again. I have an ex-Army sniper friend who went in to a gun store in Southern California on the morning of the Sandy Hook shooting. He'd been planning to buy himself a new weapon as a Christmas present. Now, this is a man who knows how to clean, repair and expertly fire guns of all sorts, and already has several weapons at home. But when he went in to the store that morning, he didn't check the news and had no idea of what had happened in Connecticut, nor would he have even suspected that the gun store would be as full of people as it was, wanting to buy firearms. They kept asking inane and simple questions about how to hold he waited for four hours to pick up his long-desired item.
The disturbing part is that the most often-said statement around him was, "What were the weapons used in that school shooting? Yea, that's what I want!" And then they had to be instructed how to hold the damned things, how to load them, what paperwork to fill out, etc.
What's funny is that I'll relate this on CNN and NBCNews in the comments section, just as he told it to me the afternoon that it happened, and people will call BS. Why?!? Are people THAT naive? They don't think their fellow citizen can be that shallow? They don't realize just how lemming-like their neighbors are when it comes to having the latest and greatest, be it computers, iPhones or firearms?!?
Yes, gun sales are running low... the scary part is that the bulk of these weapons are not going to NRA members and/or those with military or police experience. They're selling as part of a trend. We had Cabbage Patch Kids in the '80s. Furbys in the '90s. Now it's firearms that's the "hot" thing to have! Only these aren't toys, and it's very disturbing that people are jumping on the bandwagon like this.
Yes, novice gun buyers are purchasing guns and asking questions about their use. So what? I want them to ask questions about their use. These folks aren't going to kill anyone.
Too bad the subhumans doing all the killing in Chicago weren't in that gun store you speak of buying legal weapons. Oh yeah, I forgot. They already know how to use their weapons.
These folks aren't going to kill anyone? Really? Can we have that in writing?
And as far as the legal/illegal weapons argument that people like you keep throwing up... you're saying things are just FINE now in society, that we should just leave everything alone, that NO change whatsoever should be taking place? Well, watch out the next time that you go to the mall, pal. Enjoy the massacre at the beach this summer. Careful on public transportation.
Standup
The story of your friend is worrisome.
Why is that you ask ??? Because these weapons are going to dumb, stupid, ignorant, untrained, and fad following people. Most do not know how to properly clean, and safely store a weapon. I will go so far as to say. That there will be a lot more gun deaths in the near future . All caused by these people. You said it best when you said weapons are not toys. Some people should never own a weapon, just like some people should never drive. These type of people are a danger to themselves as well as others. I am not against the 2nd amendment. But I am against stupid people owning weapons.
Bobbo,
"Some people should never own a weapon"
Right on man! I agree! Like the subhumans in Chicago. They killed 500 last year and are on pace for 700 murders in 2013. But the liberal press and their boy obama don't want to talk about that. LMFAO!!
Bobster
You are referring to gang-bangers and the criminal elements in our country. They will always find a way to get illegal weapons. For them laws mean nothing. I was referring to the I know what I am doing crowd. You know them. They are the ones who know everything and anything. What ever they touch they screw up. They are the ones who will leave a loaded , unlocked off safe weapon lying around. Then wounder how a family member got hold of it and killed themselves or someone else. They are also the ones most likely to have their new toy stolen.
Yes Bob. That happens. And it's already a crime. So what is your point? So let's also make murder a crime. What? Oh yeah, it already is a crime! LOL!
First off Bobster. When you call our President a boy you don't get much credence from anyone who is rational. Second off the murders are why OUR President wants background checks on everybody who buys a gun. Get this through your head. He doesn't want to take your gun.
He doesn't want to take your gun.
He doesn't want to take your gun.
I have the feeling , that bobster is nothing more than a troll. He is just looking to muddy up the waters to confuse people even more.
bob1/28
You sound like you are talking about a Demcorat.
And I want to thank you for making a point that Several of us have been trying to make and the Libs call us names and all... But here in your OWN words you have said the same thing... I guess that shows there is hope for some of you.
"You are referring to gang-bangers and the criminal elements in our country. They will always find a way to get illegal weapons. For them laws mean nothing."
These novice gun owners should take an NRA fire arms safety class. I'm tyring to get my grandson in one but thre aren't many in New York and they are all full for the next 6 months. By the way, New York forced my nearest gun range to close last year when they sued it for lead poisoning and wante them to spedn 42 million on cleanup and air filtration systems. The owners could not affod it and decalred bankruptcy. Cuomo has other ways to keep us legal gun owners from enjoying our sport.
I consider myself rational and I do not see a problem with the way he referenced President Obama as "Their boy obama"
Conducting a background check on a person who is legally purchasing a firearm is not going to have any significant impact on the murder rate in this country,Criminals do not legally purchase their weapons A government sets the standards for the background checks and thus can by virtue of setting these standards control who can legally purchase a firearm. This is why eveb though the US Supreme Court has ruled that both Chicagos and DC's ban on firearms was unconstitutional these cities can still basically eliminate firearms sales by making the requirement to pass a background check impossible.
Several prominent Senators have already advocated confiscation of certain weapons
In 1991 NJ passed an assault weapons ban, The ban basically made it unlawful for any person to own an assault weapon as defined nuder NJ's statute, NJ's definition of an assault weapon included many basic 22 caliber rimfire target rifles, So NJ's law created instant criminals of any citizen who had lawfully purchased a firearm before the ban and failed to get rid of it, I had many firearms in my collection that fell under the NJ definition of an assault weapon, I was forced to move them out of state, I still own them but I can not bring them back into NJ or I will be a criminal.
NY just passed an assault weapon bill that limits the magazine capacity to 7 rounds
Yes they are trying to take our guns!
Grandpa-2986035
I watched the speech.. the POTUS said NOTHING about Chicago. nada ziltch. This was ALL about the tragedy in CT, supposedly.
He would if he could.. He KNOWS he doesn't have the political clout to get ANYTHING through congress. Hell he can't even get them to agree on a budget in 4 years and THAT is a BIGGER issue than all the homicides in the past century.
I liked stand up comment. Every holiday, be it Thanksgiving, Christmas...familys get together and the guys group and show each other their new electronic toys. Blackberries, PDA's, latest phone. Now some guy is going to show his inlaws, brothers in laws, his new AR-15 or Bushmaster. He really doesn't know all that much about it, but knows it was the hot, cool item to buy last January. Next Thanksgiving, Christmas, the same inlaws will be at the same house, with all the little nieces and nephews. Gun owners son will sneak off and show all the other nieces and nephews dad's super cool gun. Right now we hear about kids finding dads gun and accidently shooting somebody. How much do you think this will rise over the next several years? A lot of these guns are being bought for no reason except the "cool" factor. They are not respondsible gun owners....they're buying lethal toys. And their kids are going to find them and play with daddys toy. Because now, there are a whole lot more out there to find. I predict a spike in accidential shootings by kids.
Robert Duckworth - I agree with you - I have a solve for parents though. Remove your firing pin from your gun. Anyone who knows an AR15 can put a firing pin back into the weapon in 2 mins, now this doesn't help in home defense situations.... but lets face it - Shotguns are for home defense, they fire a larger projectile (.33 vs .223 ) and 1 pull of the trigger results in 9 .33 projectiles being fired. Lets face it ... an old @!$%#ty Remington 870 just isn't cool... also here in the Midwest we have a way to teach children about firearms lethality. We take them hunting with a little .22 and tell them to shoot a squirrel .... Its a sad day for you and your child when he/she burst into tears when they realize what guns do. But that squirrel just taught your child a life long lesson. They realize real quick - real life doesnt have a "hit x to respawn" or a "pause and restart" button.
bob;
Are you referring to the ones that know what is best for me and mine? Those living in glass houses, miles and miles away, but are "well educated" book smart that unfortunately never lived the life?
Kind of like BO?
Freedom, thanks. Maybe at the time of purchase remove the pin so the customer knows how it works(and to always keep it seperate from the gun should the kid find the ammo). Right on about no life reset. My oldest brother got a single shot .22 when he was probably 19. Went out with friends and he shot a rabbit. I don't remember him ever picking that rifle up again.
Yeah - he was also against gay marriage. Until his views "evolved". How long before his views "evolve"...
This should be the reason you anti's are happy these are the folks that are buying theses AR type rifles. The AR platform is so finicky that all it takes is one miss cleaning or non cleaning, wrong buffer spring, or gas tube, wrong grease or one little problem assmebling that the rifle will be made useless. Look at Auroa and his 100 rnd mag. That mag is such a piece of junk it will cause most AR's to miss fire/jam as the AR requires precise spring pressure on the rnds loading. Holmes or who ever did Auroa did most of their damage by ripping loose with a shotgun and pistols as the AR lay on the floor jammed after a few shots.
There's a big difference there. Supporting marriage equality people's EXPANDED rights. You are trying to use marriage equality to claim that he will narrow rights. Doesn't compute.
But, what is similar is that in both cases the hysteria is overblown. What Obama can do regarding marriage equality or gun control is quite limited without legislation.
Where do the criminals get their guns? What they don't take in home robberies they get by buying them perfectly legally. In some states it is perfectly legal to go into a store and buy $20,000 worth of assault weapons, and then walk out onto the street and sell them to anyone with money no questions asked.
When are you gun nuts going to tighten up the laws so that criminals will have a harder time getting guns?
Bloomberg Unveils Videos of Arizona Gun Show Sting - WNYC
The truth about the Fast and Furious scandal - Fortune Features
To all the anti gunners here. I see all the time name calling and insults of the intelligence of gun owners and how we live in fear and on and on. "It cannot happen here in the United States". It can and DID. Ever hear of Wounded Knee? I love how Liberals talk about what "we" did to the Native Peoples, they gave up their equal footing (guns) and look how well that turned out. Another drought, no food for millions in the cities and 'burbs, idiots and crooks in congress and the Libs think they are on top of things by banning 30 round mags. Clap, clap, clap. Just so you know, not a big fan of the 30's anyway, when you are firing laying down it makes your head stick up about 8" further than I care for, unless you have a spare head.
I am pro-gun, coming from both a background where my family hunts and also from a military background, as I served active-duty twice.
But I am also pro-awareness. We have a DEFINITE problem in this country in terms of gun violence and something must change. The way we have been going is what has led us to where we are now, and it is not a good place.
Agree, but after almost 80 years of mismanagement, ( I base everything going on today by the end of WWII) spending more than we take in, America's low priority on a good education, greed over the good of all and the loss off the Golden Rule how the heck are we going to change the direction of where this Country is headed by passing more feel good laws? You and I are not that different by the way, I pay attention to peoples posts. Good luck and have a great day.
stonepipe,
I really do think we're better off culturally than we were pre-WWII. Back then it was considered okay to lynch people without due process if their skin was a certain color and there were whispers about a wrong committed. Things such as rape and domestic abuse weren't talked about, never mind prosecuted. Possession of certain drugs was something you could be executed for, but before that, it was free and legal. Or how about the wild west, where life was cheap and expendable.
Things ain't like they used to be and they never were. - Will Rogers
Sorry Prag, the West was never that wild. The only life that was cheap were the Natives.
stonepipe,
Like that's any better? We stopped doing that. That's a good thing.
Prag, sorry needed coffee. You brought up some great points and progress has been made in some areas, but we have lost in others I fear.
Prag,
I will have to strongly disagree with your assessment that we are culturally better off than pre-WWII. But that is just my opinion. Family life and people in general have become much further apart and much less close to each other and have a much stronger "Me, Myself and I" attitude. They want instant gratification and want to control every facet of our lives. How is this "Culturally" better?
StandUpJokeOff, if you served then thank you for your service.
If that's the case and your family hunts, how can you even make the blatant mistakes you did in your previous post?
IE: Your High Powered Weapons, Armor Piercing Round and Multi-shot shot comments.
Seems strange that a Person with Firearms experience would make the basic error of thinking his Military issued M4 (most likely) was more "powerful" than his family members Deer/ElK/Bear etc rifles.
- Signed, a logical, college educated(BSME) person, who lives in a Blue state and does not own any Firearms.
The biggest fact that people arguing the topic (on either side) don't realize is:
AR-15s have been available to the general public since 1963.
That begs the question, why are the "Mass Killings" such a recent problem?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall any "Mass-Killings" involving these Firearms in the late 70s, 80s or early 90s.
Went to the Shot Show in Vegas. Actually had an anti gun protester take a swing at me while a couple others pushed me trying to provoke a fight. I heard that this happened more then once. Talk about which side of this is crazy.
patriot,
Family life pre-WWII wasn't too different from it is now. Alcoholic parents were deadbeats. Sensible parents were working. Kids were left to their own devices. Maybe mom was around to help raise the kids (a rarity now since the collapse of the single income family.)
But I remember one story of a kid who was killed and another kid who was kidnapped. There was a case of mistaken identity, both mothers claimed the kidnapped kid was theirs. The mother who was considered a deviant by the townsfolk lost the court case. A century later, the descendants of both women had their DNA tested. It was the deviant mother's kid all along. That kind of thing wouldn't happen today and returning the kid to the wrong mother just somehow seems morally wrong. In this respect, we are certainly culturally better.
We also don't send kids off to work. That's cultural growth.
You are correct about the fierce sense of individualism. But Americans have always had that. I don't think it is a new thing. There are certainly enablers of individualism today that didn't exist 70 years ago (like smartphones), but on the whole I don't think it is much different.
On the whole, I do think we are better as a culture than we used to be. It's hard to discuss because most of us did not live through the times which we are discussing. We don't have the perspectives of a person living in those times. We get the filtered version. I don't think any point in history, nor any point in the future, will be free of cultural ills. And I don't think things as they are now are perfect. I just think we're better off than we were in many ways.
This is what really happens at gun shows.
Bloomberg Unveils Videos of Arizona Gun Show Sting - WNYC
Prag is exactly right that we ARE better off now. If you were a straight, Protestant white male of western European background then, yeah, pre-1960 might have been your glory days. But, if you were anything else, you faced limited career/housing options and discrimination. Perhaps there have been some disruptions as we've brought the rest of our citizens into the economic and cultural mainstream. But, on the whole, we have a much more fair and just society today.
Probably buying them now because they won't pass the upcoming background checks.
There are already background checks Idiot.
Another uninformed comment. They have to go through background checks now to buy them.
Nice, calling the guy an idiot. Really nice. Do you think for a second he meant that the new policies is what he was talking about. Instead, you lower yourself and call him an idiot.
Someonespecial? I just had a vision of the short bus.
smartliberal1 (wow, what an oxymoron of a name),
Background checks are not new, they have been around for decades. All "licensed" dealers have had to do instant background checks on all firearms purchases in all 50 states.
Patriot, thanks for bringing that to light.
The problem with most comments in threads like these is the lack of education about the subject matter.
Most people don't even know what the current "Gun Laws" in their states are.
Many others don't know the definition of "Assault Weapon".
Way too many have no idea what a Semi-Automatic weapon or an Automatic weapon is or the difference between them.
Posted this under the wrong comment...
The biggest fact that people arguing the topic (on either side) don't realize is:
AR-15s have been available to the general public since 1963.
That begs the question, why are the "Mass Killings" such a recent problem?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't recall any "Mass-Killings" involving these Firearms in the late 70s, 80s or early 90s.
No, many (most?) gun buyers do not get background checks. Espascially not the criminals, and no one accuses them of being under armed.
Bloomberg Unveils Videos of Arizona Gun Show Sting - WNYC
Please Mr Binkie verify your statements!! No one can purchase a firearm from a Licensed Firearms Dealer wiithout a background check! Perhaps you were referring to private sales for which no check is mandated. I suspect this may be rectified with comming legislation.
gotta love inbreeding
You probably would know.
I love all this 'civil war' nonsense, should make good t.v. for the rest of us around the world :)
Have fun, you nutty Americans.
True! It isn't 1860 when most people lived on the family farm. At any time today there is about a weeks food supply in the pipeline. Disrupt that food supply and 2 weeks later the war is over.
The year is 2013 and at any given time we have atleast 9 months to a years worth of food stocks from canned this includes store bought in cans plus fresh vegetables/fruits/meats that we have preserved in canning jars plus we have dried fruits and vegetables to cured meats and cheeses,frozen meats and food stocks and we always have something growing somewhere, We currently have tomatoes and peppers growing in our green house, Cold weather crops like peas and beans will be planted in early spring as well as cabbage and kale in the fall. Summer provides most all of our fresh vegetables and fruits, We have livestock that can produce milk for drinking and for making cheeses and some that are raised for slaughter for food purposes, We can hunt and forage and basically be completely independent, While you may only have 1 weeks worth of food there are plenty of us that are prepared and not dependent on some grocery store for our food. I heat my home with wood and can cook on my stove plus I can prepare charcoal for additional cooking purposes, We will not be starving and we will not be cold and we will defend ourselves against those who would wish to help themselves to our hard earned foods and supplies.
Americans are so uninformed and just like a herd of sheep follow whatever is said. Guns aren't going to be outlawed, though assault rifles may be. There is no reason for people to own these guns.
My semi-automatic Glock handgun is just as powerful as the assault rifle used by the kook in CT. So why aren't they banned? Because that's coming when the next looney takes out 25 kids using a semi-automatic handgun. No one can convince me otherwise.
Of course the people won't let that happen. The next Civil War will occur when obama tried to outlaw semis.
Your showing how little you know about these guns except what you are parroting from the anti- 2nd Amendment people.
Guns are already being outlawed, NY State just banned anything that holds over 7 rounds of ammo, That makes millions of 22 caliber target rifles illegal and make the owners criminals, If you do not think the untimate goal of people like Barrack Obama and Joe Biden are to remove as many guns from the hands of the public you are a fool.
Good morning LITPB. I was banished from the Kingdom for a comment and saw you had a name for your friend int the yard. Is that what we call a Turkey Vulture on the Great Plains or is it different?
There is no reason for you to buy two loaves of bread at the store either, but you would demand that it is your right.
I don't know .. but the last time i checked, it was the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of "I must have a reason". I have a right to own a gun, and it just happens that the style of weapon they are attempting to ban is the best tool available to all individuals to defend themselves within their home.
And it is silly that they are they are banning "characteristics" of a firearm [e.g. foregrip, barrel shroud - cuz we all know how lethal these items are].
The banning of these silly characteristics will continue until they have defined everything related to a firearm. It will be little-by-little, but they will not stop. Our 2nd amendment was put in place to protect us from the same institution that is now trying take it away ... Government!
"The AR-15-style rifle, which is among the most popular firearm models in America, came to wider attention after Adam Lanza used one in Newtown"
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. ADAM LANZA DIDN'T USE AN AR15. STOP LYING
Phillymoma, and there's no reason for you to drink and drive or smoke pot but you probably do. It's none of your f**king business what I own. For you people that trust and believe this country won't go off the edge are dillusional. They've all done it and this one is on high speed. I don't think Rome fell this fast.
Tjhere's no reason for anyone to have an abortion either. It is selfishness that drives that market. And don't say the majority want to ban guns so we need to. 81 percetnof Americans want a ban on abortion except in cases were teh life of the mother is a trade off. 1.5 million babies are dead every year from abortion.
Good Morning to you also stonepipe2, The vulture in my avatar is actually a Black Vulture (Coragyps atratus) also known as the American Black Vulture, It is a New World bird, Usually found in the southeastern US and into Central America but it has been moving northward, We have plenty of the Turkey Vultures (Cathartes aura) or as they are sometimes referred to as Turkey Buzzards here also, Many people do not fully appreciate these birds and look down on them, They are funny to watch sometimes with their comedic actions.
Phillynona - do you even know what an assault weapon is? I think people who are against assault weapons THINK they know what one is, but they don't really understand what classifies it as such. They picture only the weapon used in the Newtown shooting, but it goes far beyond that. An assault weapon is a semi-auto gun with a removable magazine (so far most handguns qualify based only on this) ... but it has to have 1 or 2 "military features" also. These "military features" are merely comfort/cosmetic features. They don't affect the power or firing speed of the gun in any way. For example a telescoping stock - it allows you to change the length of the stock by a few inches. You know, because people have different arm lengths so you can better fit it to you. Another feature is a pistol grip - better control. Sure it allows you to hold the gun with one hand, but have you ever tried to shoot a rifle with only one hand? If someone's going to shoot a rifle at me I'd actually rather them use one hand instead of two because their aim would be terrible. A third military feature? A bayonet mount. Because bayonets are a real problem these days. You can turn a .22 hunting rifle into an "assault rifle" simply by putting a different stock on it for more comfort and control. Doesn't change the mechanics of the gun in any way, but suddenly it's an assault weapon because it looks all scary. I wouldn't have as big of an issue with an assault weapons ban if it only classified the high caliber rifles as assault - but the current definition of assault weapon doesn't take caliber into account at all, just the pretty features.
Has it been definitively said what weapon was actually used in this school killing?
All I've heard was that the killer had two pistols and rile and shotgun which was found in his vehicle. What were the rounds found in the bodies? Most reports say he used a pistol. Is this being kept quiet so this can be blamed on a rifle? The true story is a mentally disturbed person took his mothers guns to kill people. No background check would have stopped him from doing what he did.
You know BP, I have been asking the same question. I have seen NO official statement that the Bushmaster rifle found in Adam Lanza's car was used in the shooting. All reports except for a brief video of an unnamed person who said a "long gun" was used, indicated that he had two handguns. What I cannot determine is if Lanza had the Bushmaster in the school, how did it get back to his car when he never left that first grade classroom?? Second, what about the video showing a police officer UNLOADING a firearm which looks like some kind of rifle outside Lanza's car trunk? I have a suspicion that the American public is being had by the media and the government to bolster the gun control agenda. Nothing new, how about Fast and Furious an ATF operation that we will never get the truth on because of Obama's interference with Congress.
gunfighter
I have been hearing the same thing. The media keeps saying that it is complex. Okay, how complex is noting the brass on the floor as to what was used and what was in the school. It really does not matter which gun was used. The kid was mental. The latest round of mass shootings have all been caused by mentally impaired young people. Lets spend the money for mental health and treatment. Ban what you want, but it will not solve the problem. Well maybe it will, to get a 32 oz soda in NYC, you have to get (2) 16 oz. sodas. Maybe Bloomberg will solve that. You can only buy one at a time. Cuomo just made New York state the safest in the country.
Let me get this NRA logic straight. We have about 300 million guns in this country. Every statistic indicates that we are the most violent "civilized" country in the world. We have more homocides and suicides by gun then any other place on earth (not counting places where wars are taking place). So the gun nuts in this country believe that even more guns will make us safer? Huh?
And for all of you that believe that President Obama is assaulting the 2nd amendment please explain how he's doing that. Based on the NRA's reading of the constitution, we should never question what our founding fathers created. Again, based on that logic slavery is ok, denying women the right to vote is ok, etc. etc.
Bear in mind, the Second Amendment was written at a time when the slave trade was a booming business. That's why we amend the Amendments--times change.
Even when slavery was abolished, there were STILL people whining about how it would hurt their profits and their livelihoods. No matter what restrictions we try to put on guns for the good of the public, there are always going to be those who bellyache about their rights as owners (guns instead of slaves).
At,
Perhaps you are making up things as most libbies do? LOL!
Yes, more guns have already made us safer. I live in Florida and the liberal police forces here have done studies saying that since so many Floridians are armed and trained that criminals have stopped doing violent home invasions and armed robberies. The murder rate has plummeted.
I also live in one of the most liberal areas in the nation, Palm Beach County Florida. We already have armed guards in schools. You don't read much about mass killings in schools here do you Slappy?
Liberals. God love em! LOL!
ant, you forgot to mention that gun violence has declined considerably in the last 20 years. What has happened in that time period? The old ban expired, carry conceal laws have become the norm, and the castle doctrine came into being. Funny how you left all that out.
Paul,
But you can't prove there has been a causative effect.
Pragmatic-3918582
You would have a more difficult proving it didn't. Fact is that there are FEWER homicides even though there are more people. We certainly can't say it is because people have become kinder/gentler.
Prag,
Can you prove that it hasn't?
You also forget we have about ten times as many people in this country compared to the rest of the civilized world. Plus we have huge gang problems and many more large urban areas. It would be more accurate to compare state by state violence to European countries.
Gun murders have little to do with the laws and everything to do with the people. Compare the stats by state - those with the lowest rate have some of the most lenient controls - Wyoming, Utah, Idaho, Minnesota, etc. But then you have the large cities which all have very strict gun laws but skew the national rate due to their high murder rates. Chicago is a prime example.
As other posters have mentioned, the rates have been declining for years even while the number of guns have increased so enough with the fallacy of "More laws controlling guns makes us safer"
If people care about the national rate, then we need to focus on those who are responsible which are by every metric the gang bangers who are essentially professional criminals. But that seems to be too difficult, Rahm just announced MORE laws with the hope the rate will go down but zero initiatives aimed at targeting and breaking up/putting away gang members.
Unfortunately, it seems this latest frenzy of activity was all focused on an isolated incident caused by a mentally unstable individual. I really don't understand focusing on something that we reallistically don't have much chance of stopping in the future. The kid went on a 20 minute rampage using multiple weapons and we still don't know the reason and if there were any warning signs (some reports say he may have been in an altercation at the school the day before). In Aurora the guy had multiple weapons and the AR jammed almost immediately so it was barely used.
In the meantime, there have been hundreds of daily shootings, most done by people with criminal histories that were known to their victims. And none of these new measures will do anything to materially change that trend.
“No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms. Advertisements contain the only truths to be relied on in a newspaper. The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed. The spirit of
resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions that I wish it to be always kept alive. The man who reads nothing at all is better educated than the man who reads nothing but newspapers. Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.” (Thomas Jefferson , American Founding Father, the principal author of the Declaration of Independence, and the third President of the United States)
trust, patriot,
I think there is considerable difficulty proving it did. There are factors to consider. The police didn't do the exact same thing throughout the same time period. They cracked down on gangs and broke them up. That alone can explain a falling overall crime rate. And all types of crime are down over the same time period. So how does one isolate these factors? You really can't.
By the way, pointing out that two things aren't necessarily linked does not automatically mean I'm arguing for the opposite to be true. I don't think there is a good way to prove the two aren't linked either. That's a shaky premise too, a premise I wouldn't like to adopt. It's a sloppy argument all around and there is a distinct possibility of a third premise being true: that there isn't enough information to say one way or the other.
Pragmatic-3918582
good counter/comeback. Facts that we do KNOW
Crime is down
Homicides are down
Number of people is UP.. about 310 million give or take
Firearm ownership by count, household, per capita is UP
I will agree that police of changed tactics.. I won't agree that they have reduced gangs.. Fact is that for one specific "statistic" 66% of all homicides are related to drugs/gangs or both. Fact is that two racial groups seem to have a corner on homicide.. Blacks and Whites... BOTH tend to keep their killing to their own group and both account for roughly half... somewhere in the neighborhood of 98%... ALL other races account for just over 2%... those numbers are from the DOJ/FBI. Those percentages have remained withing 2% for DECADES.
Something SEEMS to be working... as totals are DOWN.. Even during the recession, when crimes USUALLY increase the trend has been downward. What has bucked the downward trends are gun free zones and gun controlled zones.. those areas have remained the same or INCREASED.
So based on REAL WORLD numbers where would you suggest we focus our efforts to reduce HOMICIDES? I am not suggesting that background checks are a bad thing but restricting, beyond what we already have, guns just doesn't appear to be a valid tact. We didn't reduce DUI by closing bars.. we finally STARTED enforcing existing laws... but we still see MOST DUI deaths on repeat offenders... Where do you think we should focus our efforts???? how many DUI offenders are on their 7th or greater offense and still driving when they kill someone? YES apples and oranges but would you suggest we install breathalyzers in ALL vehicles because of 16000, give or take, drivers?
I am all for things like FL statute 10-20-life... bring a gun to a crime you WILL serve 10 years... discharge the gun you WILL serve 20... injure or kill someone.. you WILL serve 25 to life... and guess what the way the law is written the DA can't take a plea deal and make those mandatory years go away. When 1/3 of ALL homicides are drug/gang related I would be willing to bet that few of those killers are first time gun offenders... and that mandatory 25 to life would give a LOT of pause to most people, even they are somehow crazy.
Let him try to take guns from American citizens! This is something that progressives have wanted to do for a LONG TIME! They are using Newton as the excuse right now. With the next tragedy committed by another CRAZY, they will ban guns all together! Americans know this and they are stocking up. What this dictator has started is another revolution!!!! Let him give up the guns who protect HIM and his daughters at school! Let's make it a COMPLETE GUN FREE ZONE. Progressives - the HYPOCRITES - while they want to take your guns - THEY have THEIR guns and their protection around them!!!!! obama is out to destroy America in EVERY WAY POSSIBLE and that means to tear down our CONSTITUTION, one amendment at a time! He signed how many executive orders this week with this gun law? 27??????? NOTHING he signed this week would have PREVENTED the shootings at Newton! Hey SHEEP, WAKE UP!!!!!!!!! Take care of the CRAZIES who shoot the people and DO NOT take GUNS from GOOD PEOPLE who want to protect themselves and their families!!!!! obama is NOT Americans and he DESPISES America!!!!!!
There is no way to "Take care of the CRAZIES," genius.
We can't even get American businesses to provide regular medical care to their employees, much less get medical care to the uninsured ("I'm not paying for someone else!" is our mentality).
So how do you think that mental health care--a long-ignored and always-underfunded department in the medical system--is going to be able to step in to "take care of the CRAZIES"? With whose money? Where is that money going to come from to provide adequate numbers of doctors, nurses, prescriptions, facilities where the patients can get off the streets and be taken care of (food, drink, clothing, beds, etc.)?
Not to mention that trying to determine who is mentally ill and who is not can also be seen as a violation of someone's civil rights. Do we assign panels of people to determine this? How would you feel if you got in an argument, made a threat against someone and was told, "You threatened to kill someone. It has been determined that you need to be removed from society and to receive treatment. You'll have to leave your job, your family and go into care." How would that work? How would YOU feel about the government forcing you to abandon your financial needs, let your family run the risk of losing everything they have when you're no longer there to provide for them, and basically be "put away" over one incident where YOU say that you weren't a threat, but others testify that you were? And, again, where is the money for this legal process going to come from?
There is no way to determine "true crazy" from someone who is under duress until such time as they pull the trigger on a AK rifle. Oh, what's that? Don't give them a trigger to pull? Hey, there's an idea!
As to your gun sales comment, agreed to a degree. For me it was being a Marxist. Herman Cain was my choice. Allen West is an impressive guy too.
Just as with any other self created shortage, people are basically silly.
No one is going to take away anyones guns. They may eventually reinstate the assault gun ban but we had that in place in this country for years before it expired and no one had their hunting weapons taken away then either.
This is a massive over reaction on the part of fearful people running to buy yet even more guns .
and paying ridiculous prices for them.
Hard to believe that so many are so paranoid that they feel that they need arsenals and assault weapons to defend against ,,,,, what ?
A shotgun is more then sufficient and safer for home defense then other weapons if for no other reason then it probably wont travel through multiple walls to other homes or rooms and kill the one you are trying to protect that may be in there .
Even a handgun is more useful then a assault weapon, you are not going to stick a assault weapon in your pocket and go the store.
I dont really see a viable use for assault weapons in sane , legal , rational, day to day life.
I guess an assault weapon depends on what obama defines it as. He can define a hand gun as an assault weapon if he wants. Anyway, Americans are stocking up and FOR GOOD REASON.
Anything having to do with the Un-American in the oval office is NOT over-reaction. People DO NOT trust this muslim!!!!
This is the kind of person you have defending gun rights.
There is no daily use. You shoot at paper, clean it and put it away hoping you'll never need to exercise your rights under the second amendment or need to protect your family, life or property.
The biggest part of this tragedy is some dead nut case 20 year old has more power over this country than the president, congress and the people than he deserves. Talk about crazies. You're empowering dead people to run your country. Ask the 6000 guys that died on D-Day or the 300,000 that were murdered in Singapore what they would do.
True, there may be no confiscation of existing weapons but taking away my ability to purchase/own them in the future is indeed taking them away. If I don't own one now and can't buy one in the future how has a gun NOT been taken away from me?
Forget the "military style" weapons for a moment and look at what NY passed while suggesting it should be the model for the country: limits of 7 rounds. This effectively outlaws most semi-auto handguns which is why they are scrambling to put in an exception for their own police who mostly use 14 rounds in their sidearms.
I can get behind better checks, checks for all purchases (dealer and private with perhaps an exception for family), and even getting rid of extremely large magazines (over 20 or 30 rounds). But this idea that we will ban weapons based on their looks as opposed to their functionality, that we should do a backdoor ban on hanguns by making the capacity so low they are essentially all illegal, and forcing owners to be put into a database for tracking is absurd and certainly does violate the 2nd amendment.
I'm a liberal and most of my circle of friends are and we all are supporters of gun rights for law abiding citizens. And I guarantee if the democrats try an overreach they will see that coalition from the general election fragment very quickly. I've always supported everyone else's rights for pro-choice, gay marriage, etc because I don't believe the government has any business regulating people's private affairs. But now those same people are turning around and trying to take my rights to self protection away. How and what I choose to protect my family is no one else's business.
The New Firearms Law in New York state now has provisions to "take guns" away.
You can find it if you can get through the Legalese.
So while President Obama may not be "taking away guns", New York is and other states may attempt to follow suit.
here you go middleman... or anyone else who wants a sleep aid
http://assembly.state.ny.us/leg/?sh=printbill&bn=S02230&term=2013
Remember also Patriots - obama can sign a million executive orders. They can all be ignored as they are NOT laws and mean NOTHING.
"Patriots" are law-abiding citizens. Yes, Presidents sign executive orders, and "signing statements." Get over it. They cannot be "ignored" by those to whom they apply. Your statement is "full of it."
An Executive Order is only valid if it’s done within the jurisdictional authority of the President’s constitutional authority. To rule against the Second Amendment is not a presidential prerogative.
Read up pattie - you are not informed!
I think our founding fathers would disagree with that statement, They violated the law at risk of death to fight a tyranical and oppressive government.
What is in the executive orders he signed that takes away any rights. Have you even bothered to read them or are you just using Fox's rhetoric? Even O'Reilly said they were being paranoid after he read them.
You should look into New York's new law Grandpa.
Hopefully, you can get past the Legalese.
Obama isn't responsible for NY's laws, middleman.
Just buy a bolt action Harris 89. It will do everything you need and surprisingly comes with a clip for multiple rounds.
Good idea: Harris M89 Sniper Rifle can be bought some places for $2,500.
These guys are a danger to every one of us. Allowing dangerous assault weapons just so a bunch of ignorant little monkey-boys can go spray bullets around, play "soldier", and join gangs is ridiculous and definitely needs to be stopped. This is out of control. These people are NOT "patriots": they are thugs and traitors, and many of them are racists and woman-haters, as a matter of fact, and a disgrace to our country.
Are you referring to the minorities in the inner cities, So exactly who are you calling a racist
Poor Pattie...more bigotry,racism and hate form the hypocrites claiming to be against bigotry,racism and hate.
Without a doubt the most unintelligent post today. Congrats
Pattie the Government Worker: Hope to see you at the Gun Show in Bel Air, Maryland - at the Armory, February 1 thru 3 rd. I'll be wearing a black beret and a Raven's jacket.
"Spray bullets"? You are apparently very uneducated about the topic you are so passionate about. And btw, you are delusional if you think NRA members and the other law abiding gun owners are "joining gangs".
Very uneducated comment Pattie.
But if you have nothing intelligent to say, you more than likely resort to Demonizing your opponent.
- Signed, a logical, college educated(BSME) person, who lives in a Blue state and does not own any Firearms.
Wow girl that is heavy but unfortunately not well informed. Who are these monkey boys, thugs and gangs that are spraying bullets all around? I don't know any, but I do know a lot of folks that have AR-15 type rifles. If by gangs you are referring to inner city gang bangers, I doubt that one in a hundred even knows what a AR-15 looks like. 99% of these fools use some kind of handgun that can be concealed.
Now, just for your info, I do not own such a weapon and have no current desire to obtain one, however I will tell you what most of the law abiding citizens that have one of these has it for...no not hunting, you do not hunt with an AR-15 and all will agree to that. These firearms are owned for one simple reason, in case of civil insurection and mob riots, to defend their homes and families from mobs. The semi auto high capacity AR-15 is the ultimate civilian defense tool for this purpose and it is for this purpose 99% of the persons that own these guns have them for.
Pat,
A little misandrist, are we?
It is a shame that this has caused this kind of spike. And the price gouge what used to be 800 is between 2000 and 2500 dollars. It is all about the buck. Even the Senator she wants every thing listed and fingerprinted. This will not do this for nothing it is most about political posture and how to get more money.
Guess who owns the Bushmaster Arms company, Zionist jew George Soros. He is laughing all the way to the bank.
Members of Congress being exempted from all gun restrictions of course...:-))
We also know that crazies and criminals follow gun laws! LMAO! You liberals are morons.
I find it quite interesting that none of these people who are out driving up the prices of guns, magazines and ammo, stopped to think. While the Presidents executive order list may or may not get accomplished, with the current House membership, there is no way anything is going to happen gun law wise. Then I wonder what our society as a whole has become when you have people who believe some of the things they do about this President. I wonder how many people over the last month have raided their savings accounts, didn't pay the rent or bills, because they believed this President was going to attack their Second Amendment rights?
Better safe than sorry.
Paranoid much?
@ tlg
What do you mean: President was going to attack their Second Amendment rights?
He is attacking it are you not alive or have a TV he is all over the news attacking it. Wake up man.
Plus if any one of you looked into Obama's and his wife's history you would see that they hate white folk all in their collage days they bashed what was it Michelle said oh yeah WHITIES....
The Michelle in the flag ceromony: " ALL THIS FOR A FLAG " Yes you ^$%#* we love our flag WHITIES died for that flag you ^$%#*...
I do not know what cave you lips live in but come out in the sun then you can see...
Something you should learn about history and how it works. In 1994 there was an assault weapon ban that was upheld Constitutional by the Supreme Court of the US, which congress had only one democrat judge and still has some of the same members today! This ruling holds presidence! So an assault weapon today is Constitutional! The ban had full support of Reagan, Bush, and Romney! Romney went on to ban all assault rifles in his state as Govenor, must be a liberal thing hey? So remember, when you say it is an attack on your 2nd admendment, it is simply an opinion not fact, Good Luck!
I bet there are some New Yorkers who are wishing they had bought while they could.
The New law in New York is exactly why these people are purchasing Firearms.
Progressive America, The boost in gun sales a result of BS from conservatives,and the NAR? OK.
The 2nd amendment is kind of a big deal.
But,it seems to me,that the whole election was based on BS.
It all boiled down to,Gay rights,abortion,and entitlements.
The whole Romneys gonna make us work... The GOP will overturn Rowe V Wade....
Rich people are bad.... That whole line of crap was far more littered with BS than what
IS going on here.
There is a much more basic agenda going on here. The average American recognizes they are not well served by the rich. We all know the rich want to be well served by us and we can go to the perverbial fires of ..., well, you know. Our biggest remaining problem is our leaders are all selfish, greedy bastards whose primary aim is to rake in as much as possible. That includes Obama, Romney, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Bush, Boehner, Reed, and every last one of them. They all better pray there is no such thing as the flamming pit upon which Satan was cast.
As gun enthusiasts, we buy & sell at gun shows all the time. The law states we must verify residence & age. No driver's license, no sale. We prefer to sell to people that hold a CHL (concealed handgun license) these people have met any requirement to own a firearm, but it is not required by law.
If the wrong thing is said in the course of a sale.... it's OFF. Any impression of illegal intent or questionable credentials and it's over.
We are gun enthusiasts and enjoy fine weapons. We are not criminals & we would hope no one would accuse us of any crimes without basis.
We are being profiled & persecuted for the deeds of others. If this was to happen to any ethnic group or "alternative lifestyle" group the media would be yelling RACISM or BIGOTS, but since we are law-abiding citizens expressing our Constitutional rights, we are being forced to pay for the crimes.
Today, we are under attack. Who will it be tomorrow? Maybe you?
I'm trying to understand the logic here. They're coming to take our guns....so,I'll buy more. ????
Actually, no. If you read a little closer, this is a business market. People are buying guns from gun shops, so there is money involved. Although not all the buyers have this profit mindset, many are expecting a decrease in supply due to the potential ban/restriction, so they expect the prices to spike as well. And what happens if you buy low and sell high? A profit. You can also assume that not all of these customers will be selling these guns to good citizens...
School Shooters Under the Influence of Psychiatric Drugs
Click here to sign the Petition: Call for Federal Investigation of Psychiatric Drugs, School Shootings & Senseless Violence
At least 14 school shooters were under the influence of psychiatric drugs documented to cause mania, psychosis, hostility, aggression and homicidal ideation.
Fact: Despite 22 international drug regulatory warnings on psychiatric drugs citing effects of mania, hostility, violence and even homicidal ideation, and dozens of high profile school shootings/killings tied to psychiatric drug use, there has yet to be a federal investigation on the link between psychiatric drugs and acts of senseless violence.
Fact: Between 2004 and 2011, there have been over 11,000 reports to the U.S. FDA’s MedWatch system of psychiatric drug side effects related to violence. These include 300 cases of homicide, nearly 3,000 cases of mania and over 7,000 cases of aggression. Note: By the FDA’s own admission, only 1-10% of side effects are ever reported to the FDA, so the actual number of side effects occurring are most certainly higher.
Fact: At least fourteen recent school shootings were committed by those taking or withdrawing from psychiatric drugs resulting in 109 wounded and 58 killed (in other school shootings, information about their drug use was never made public—neither confirming or refuting if they were under the influence of prescribed drugs.) The most important fact about this list, is that these are only the shooters where the information about their psychiatric drug use was made public. To give an example, although it is known that James Holmes, suspected perpetrator of a mass shooting that occurred July 20, 2012, at a movie theater in Aurora, Colorado, was seeing psychiatrist Lynne Fenton, no mention has been made of what psychiatric drugs he may have been taking. Also note that all these mass shootings didn’t just occur in the United States.
For more information read Another School Shooting, Another Psychiatric Drug? Federal Investigation Long Overdue
There is a big part of this picture missing, that is the core problem in our society! These humans came from disfunctional families.... and that's a fact!
Hey bingo. Go on down to Elizabethton, Tennessee and drive up Highway 91 into the Stoney Creek area to the to the little store at the end of Duggar Branch, get out, walk in and make the same "hillbilly" remark. I'd like to see that! Nope, no guns in there, just some "hillbillies" that you really, really, don't want to piss off. Really. Big surprise!! LOL LOL LOL
A shame I don't live there now, I'll miss all the fun. LOL
The logic is that people who did not own one want to get one before a ban is enacted. More people believe in gun ownership than gun control advocates want to admit. That doesn't mean though that a majority doesn't want safe, responsible gun ownership. Banning a gun based on its look does nothing to enhance safety, it's a feel good measure supported by people who don't like guns in general.
What's so hard to understand - they are attempting to disallow future sales. Either I get one now or risk not being able to own one in the future. When it comes to personal safety, most people would rather not risk protecting their family with a golf club.
Same thing happened with the last shipment of Twinkies. People flocked to Jewel and they were gone within minutes.
pattie in maryland - you NEED TO BE INFORMED. You don't know very much. Why don't you read up and learn?
Did Obama prose anything that would have prevented any of the mass shootings?
You need to learn you some learning, Gomer. Do the research and so on and so forth
(yeah, these are the kind of people we want in charge of our kids safety........Good grief!!!!!!)
I guess so, the unarmed ones haven't been doing so hot, have they?
haggis buddy....I'm no hillbilly, but if your drunk, stoned ass happens upon my property in the middle of the night, that sharp pain you feel in your chest is just one .223 round from my AR-15. Dance a little jig to that. Moron.
AR-15? It's a M-16 wannabe for those gun owners that wouldn't last a day in the military!! Wanna fire some real weapons? Enlist in the Marine Corps and become a true american citizen. Bunch of wusses!!
RP is waiting for his
welfare check.
RP-USMC - I did enlist in the Marine Corps in 1967. I retired as a GySgt of Marines in 1988, and believe I am a true American citizen. The AR-15/M4 is identical to the M-16, except it does not fire full automatic. I own both a M4 and a AK-47. Great weapons.
It seems as though people don't realize that if someone is mentally unstable, it does not take a firearm to carry out a violent act upon innocent people. The largest attack on a school occurred in 1926 in a school in Michigan. This act of violence was carried out by a disgruntled janitor who decided to devise a plan to blow up the school and that he did (although luckily 500 pounds of explosives failed to ignite). Nevertheless, he used TNT and because of his actions 54 children were killed and that is still the largest mass killing on a school in the U.S to this day(without any firearms).
Jeannie-1675139
I am outraged by your post. threatening to shot the person one time... You need to at least double tap em...
Your comment needs to be on front page. Badly. It's not the gun, it's not even the bomb, it's the mentally unstable. And it's usually also the bad parents that made a monster out of them.
Dem Rednecks and Hillbillies be spendin all dey cash on guns and ammo.....can't affod to feed da childrn...need food stamps and assistance for dem keeds!!
Bad parenting doesn't cause schizophrenia. Bad genes do. Bad parenting is not recognizing or treating signs of schizophrenia. Bad parenting is leaving your firearm out and unlocked for your schizophrenic son to procure.
Dem hillbilly's and rednecks are the ones runnning those guns up to NY and Chicago...I doubt they even care about the stupid things other than to mark em up 400%...smooth move exlax! give em somtning else to sell with their pills and pot...stupid liberal northeast fools. You created a demand and everybody will be in the gun running business, including the dumb Hillbilly's..but you can't be to smart yourselves! Bloomberg says most of the guns that come into New York city come from Virginia and West Virginia....Hillbilly don't have any gun restrictions to speak of, the only reasons they are buying this junk is for resale. All you have done is created a greater demand!
Govament need to go back to stompin on da rights a people in other countries. "Law Dog don't GO around here......Saavy!"
I think everyone is fully aware that the criminals dont follow the rules. BUT THE RESPONSE but SUPPOSEDLY sane legal gun owners to run out a buy EXACTLY what the nut cases use is just paranoia and fear speaking out .
When their new shiny assault weapon sits in the closet for years that they paid a ridiculously high price for , they will wonder why they bought it later on. That is assuming that they themselves were not the crazy one and intends to use it for doing bad things with ,
Don't you worry about people spending lots of money on guns..... as luck would have it....most are conservative - thus - THEY WORK and earn money!
Ummmm, YOU are the one using insults "nutjob moron".
Also, the brainwashed ones are the idiots who buy the NRA's shrieking about the govt. coming to take your guns away.
Man, people are stupid.
So Zeb Obama is not trying to take my AR15. Sounds like he is on the news or was that not him?
And if I think real hard are you not people too....
And me having my AR15 has nothing to do with NRA shrieking.
I have it because Obama and his wife are racist look it up both were anti white when they was in collage. Michelle saying " ALL THIS FOR A FLAG" call white folk WHITIES. Shall I go on? Anti American, Dictator
You just need to get your head out Obama's A$$ then you may see...
@lasertroll. Firstly, it appears that you are illiterate, secondly, Obama is half white (mother). I hope you enjoy your AR15 getting cobwebs. This paranoia from you deluded loons is simply bizarre. The rest of the world looks on in astonishment at you intellectually challenged right wingers.
@peter
Did you go look it up no you did not.
We the People ARE the militia! That is why the 2nd Amendment was created - to guard us against a tyrannical government!!!!!! We have one right now.