If you can't afford a safe, you can't afford a gun...

I blame this tragedy totally on the media. Where else aside from the movies or video games would a child get this idea.

You might also wish that they hadn't had a total psychopath for a kid while you're at it.

I'm sure this isn't the only home where the guns aren't locked up.

How are they going to quickly access them if they're locked away?

I'd like to know what this family feared so much that they had to have guns with children in the house.

If someone wants to get their hands on their parents guns, There is no safe place.

goldenshepard,

Oh yeah, right. You would never in a million years blame the murdering scum who pulled the trigger.

Liberals are just so hopelessly clueless.

Juvenile my a*s.

He knew what he was doing. Hang the little pr*k before he does it again.

I know I will be deleted for thisn one. Never the less he killed 5 people and wanted to bump off more.

So what do you bleeding hearts want to do? Let him loose again so he can full fill his greatest desire?

Take the little murderer and hang him in public. Done with it.

@ Bluebirdsister,

"I'd like to know what this family feared so much that they had to have guns with children in the house."

I don't know the details, but I'm guessing they should have feared that psycho of a son who shot up his entire family without a second thought. Not that this justifies the carelessness they took with those firearms, or anything like that. Or how they raised, or neglected to raise this boy.

Can't help but wish the parents had been more responsible gun owners and had the guns and ammunition locked securely in a safe.

These guns could have been locked in a steel vault and it would have made no difference to the eventual outcome.

This boy would have found a way to kill.

Locking away all the guns, knives, hammers, saws, baseball bats, poisons, razors, and attack dogs trained to kill won't stop killers.... only the method they use.

Yeah, mimi, and the kid had access to all of that, didn't he?...

Who is to say he was a psycho? Grant you what he did was horrific, but is there any proof of his behavior beforehand?

They say he had no history in the system before this?

Sometimes there is no history. Sometimes there are no signs. Something happens, we can't know what right now and they just snap.

I just wonder what kind of drugs these shooters may have been prescribed & are they on some of the same ones constantly advertised on tv with side effects including depression & suicidal thoughts. Maybe the gun law debates are barking up the wrong tree...

Just keep saying guns don't kill people, guns don't kill people, guns don't kill........

notice guns are just metal...and the shooters are just mental...they ought to skin him alive...then just keep saying knives don't skin people...

OK, I'll say it. Guns don't kill people. Mentally unstable nutjobs - who have been de-sensitized to violence because they grew up in a culture that glorifies violence - kill people (with guns).

Psycho not psycho, on drugs illicit or otherwise...... the fact remains that the shooters are getting ahold of guns in their parents homes and shooting people.

No guns..... no bullets in the head.... its that simple

Gun loving Americans make me so thankful to be Canadian

john812, read your comment and think, you said it yourself: the ar is the right tool to express more hatred. why would that be?

Once again,let's just make it the sixth time,you have failed to allow a reply to any comment when the point was pertinent. Waiting fifty comments down the line in order to express an opinion is absolutely stupid. One LAST time...... if you are too incompetant to hang the "reply" statement after a comment,perhaps you shouldn't be in the position you profess to hold.

I had my own gun when I was 15...No big deal, used the .22 and 410 shotgun for rabbit hunting and Target practice My parents taught me and my brothers about gun safely how to handle guns... ..

When I had my kids I taught them about guns .. guns were not a problem in our family... Would think living in New Mexico that this boy would have known about guns also.. but he was going to kill no matter what weapon he chose to use..Passing laws that deprive others from owning and using firearms is Not the Answer.. Things like this will happen in our world..Laws cant change human behavior

The NRA has gun safety classes, might want to check them out and enroll your kids

@ Daddio927,

Just what do you think guns were design to do? Tea parties? No! Guns are designed to make killing easier. They are the most successful handheld killing tool on the planet. Guns are ranged and fire too fast to react to. This makes them not only deadlier, and not only deadlier from a distance, but much harder to evade, counter, survive, etc. Now would this psycho have done this with or without guns? Probably. Man kind in general has been killing long before guns, and would continue to do so with or without them.

The problem is that guns make it that much easier, and that much harder to avoid. Why do you think guns are used so much, anyway? It's because they are the most lethal and efficient handheld weapon made to date.

And to blame it on the culture. Don't play that culture BS and get upset when others blame guns. That would make YOU part of that culture problem you claim is to blame. Anyone who can't tell the difference between our culture, like say a violent video game, is either a young child or mentally ill. For people too young to be exposed to certain things, that's why we have a rating system. Rated e, t, m, etc. It doesn't do any good if it isn't followed. For the rest, we need to focus on mental health.

I'm not saying get rid of all guns or anything like that, as I support the second amendment and one's right to defend themselves with a gun. However, that does not entitle civilians to every gun related thing ever invented by man. Some things have no business being used by civilians. And our lax restrictions on guns, which are far less than we have on my allergy medicine Claritin by the way, are not our only problem. The people are also part of the problem, which is why we must also focus on things like mental health as well. But don't go around pretending that guns aren't designed to make killing easier.

Conjuring Cat

Yeah, mimi, and the kid had access to all of that, didn't he?...

What is your point?

Mine is based on the statements made by the boy to law enforcement, that he wanted to kill. Locking up the guns would have served no purpose but to delay his objective and perhaps change his targets for the moment.

Without guns available he could just as easily have stabbed his mother and sisters to death or set the house on fire. The key here is the boy's willingness and desire to kill, and lack of availability of firearms would not have changed the outcome, merely how he achieved it.

God of Fate

You have a long post there...

Four paragraphs on guns, and you don't even touch on the comments made by law enforcement or the boy himself on how he wanted to kill not only his family members but others as well.

The guns made it easier, but even had they not been available, that boy would have murdered his family, and that is the crux of the problem that is being overlooked amid the hysteria over the gun debate. What in the hell made this young man want to kill his family? Why is THAT not the subject of this thread?

Go back and read the article again. Had there not been a single firearm in that house, that family would still be dead, and THAT should be the greater source of concern.

I question the sanity of anyone who has a arsenal of weapons designed specifically for the killing of other human beings. After 20 years in the military and fighting in 2 wars, I have friends and relatives show off their AR-15 and other assault type weapons to me, I assume to try and impress me with them. I kind of just shake my head because most of them and other people do not even understand the weapons they purchase. Home defense or protection is the banner most people proclaim as their reasons for purchasing weapons.

Seriously, let's cover home defense first. The best weapon for home defense is a double barrel shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge. You do not want to start shooting off multiple rounds from a gun that is going to pass through your walls because when the shooting is over you may find little Timmy or little Sara dead in their beds as well or even find the next day that you've killed one of your neighbors with your Wild Bill gunfight. A shotgun may have enough power to blast through a wall at close range, but it uses most of that force getting through the wall and doesn't have much more after that.

How about self defense, what you carry walking down the streets on your belt. Probably the best weapon is a .40, but for some people, that may be too much of a gun, so a 9 mm might be best for some people. A .45 is a good weapon for a very few people who can remain calm enough to use it because you need to hit your target with the first shot because this weapon kicks severely, but your assailant is going to be knocked to the ground on any hit, but most people do not have the nerve to remain calm in a life or death situation. A .357 magnum is the most unpractical of any weapon for home or self defense. The people who carry one of these babies have to be some of the most self delusional people on the planet - probably have a size problem as well and carry this gun to make up with it. Why is this gun unpractical? First, at home (besides being able to blast through walls and kill the innocent) it is loud, and you are most likely going to be firing it off in a confined space meaning you're going to be pretty deaf after shooting it off. Second, it's probably going to be dark when you fire it off and you will be blinded by the muzzle blast. You're going to be really handy fighting someone off when you're both deaf and blind, aren't you?

A final thing to remember about home and self defense - you are responsible for anyone you shoot and/or kill, whether they be your attackers or accidental like your children or some other guy and his wife on the other side of the street walking by your scuffle. Most people who own guns are killed by their own guns or kill family members. So are you buying the guns you are buying for protection, or is it for some strange need to seem more manly or because you think owning that particular gun makes you look cool. Most people don't look cool with half their head blown away, trust me, I've seen that and it is not pretty!

Acting out fantasies of having grandiose plans and obtaining infamy.. He didn't like his life, blamed others, he thought he would be remembered by killing a lot of people. He should shot himself first.

"Most people who own guns are killed by their own guns or kill family members."

There are about 100,000,000 firearms owners in the U.S. Only a very small portion are killed with any weapon - their own or someone else's. Perhaps this was supposed to be a different thought about accidents vs. successful self-defense incidents?

I also think people need to be more personally responsible. Pretty much all of the gun owners that I know well are personally very responsible, and their children are well educated early on the matter. (They also aren't nut cases overall...good people make all the difference.)

In the end though, legal/political-opinion-wise, it's a matter of freedom, plain-and-simple. People SHOULD be responsible. However, you cannot force responsibility, and creating new rules and laws "to protect" (they don't) people from themselves and every other nutcase - at good the cost of good peoples' freedoms - in society is a poor cause. It's a REALLY bad/evil idea. It must be stopped. It will have the opposide desired effect. It will make us LESS safe, and more importantly LESS FREE. Try to restrict the legal flow of weapons and things always get ugly. History shows it to be true, and millions of gun owners in the U.S. are certainly not going to give up their weapons quietly, or sit by idly while our constitutional rights are trampled further. The Second Amendment is absolute. If they ever mess with it, it will lead to a terrible civil war, or at least active armed rebellion. Things will get MUCH worse. Guaranteed.

The "idiot masses" always try to do stupid things in "the name of the children" and it always makes things worse. Hence, why their called "the idiot masses". (Just like government screws up everything they touch, for the most part.)

We need more personal responsibility, not more laws. I can think for myself, thank you. I don't need my government (that works for ME and YOU, not the other way around) telling me how to live.

Once again, If the Adults who own firearms properly store them as per the law states this would have been avoided.

@ screminmimi,

TRY ACTUALLY READING MY POST BEFORE YOU TRASH IT, HUH? Like the first paragraph:

"Just what do you think guns were design to do? Tea parties? No! Guns are designed to make killing easier. They are the most successful handheld killing tool on the planet. Guns are ranged and fire too fast to react to. This makes them not only deadlier, and not only deadlier from a distance, but much harder to evade, counter, survive, etc. Now would this psycho have done this with or without guns? Probably. Man kind in general has been killing long before guns, and would continue to do so with or without them."'

Sigh... Another know it all who can't even read properly. And as for the rest of your post, well please read mine again if you actually tried the first time. And it might do you well to read the second to last sentence in the final paragraph. It's like I have to highlight it or they don't notice:

"I'm not saying get rid of all guns or anything like that, as I support the second amendment and one's right to defend themselves with a gun. However, that does not entitle civilians to every gun related thing ever invented by man. Some things have no business being used by civilians. And our lax restrictions on guns, which are far less than we have on my allergy medicine Claritin by the way, are not our only problem. The people are also part of the problem, which is why we must also focus on things like mental health as well. But don't go around pretending that guns aren't designed to make killing easier."

My gosh, could you have failed any harder at trying to discredit me? I mentioned mental health earlier as well. Here's a tip: Don't put words in my mouth!

Mimi, thanks for asking the pertinent question here: why did this 15-year-old decide to shoot his parents, brother and sisters? I'm in Albuquerque and I can tell you that that question is on everyone's mind. The question I keep asking is, why did he stop? He said he intended to go out "suicide by cop" after a killing spree... so, what made him drive to a church and essentially turn himself in instead? Fear of God?

The newest iteration of the story (above) has now disclosed that he had "suicidal and homicidal thoughts," which, I think for a lot of us, raises the specter of what prescription medication this boy may have had (or had access to) that has side effects of that nature. As a local resident, I'll be watching this story closely.

@Dan - I think what I meant to say was that it is more likely for people to kill a family member or an innocent with a gun than they are an assailant. I also know it's a fact that most assailants are more likely to take a gun away from someone and kill them with their own gun because most people are not conditioned and/or trained to pull a gun and shoot it at someone else.

By the way, people do not need to own an expensive gun safe to keep their guns in. A $15 trigger lock will prevent or slow down someone from being able to shoot a gun almost as well depending on where you keep the key. Of course, with a safe, the key and the combo also suffer the same weaknesses.

WMG -

As a child and as a teen I can remember being mad enough at my parents that I wanted to run away from home; I can remember being mad enough at them and at my siblings to wish I could trade them for someone else, or that they would just "go away."

But never, ever, in my most angry moments, did I envision wishing them dead, let alone doing the deed myself. I just cannot fathom the lack of feeling it would take for a son and brother to perform this act. My mind balks and shuts down at the point where he even begins to think about it.

This is happening too often, and to individuals who are too young to have no soul. Something is very wrong in our society.

screinmimi - If you have a crystal ball that tells you what the boy would have done if guns weren't available, you should charge for your readings and make a fortune. If you don't have such a crystal ball and are instead just guessing, stfu. Guns make it easier to kill. He might have killed even if he hadn't had easy access to guns, but it would have been harder and certainly less likely that he would have done so, especially not all five. Homicidal and suicidal pyshcological pressures are not constant. For people with these issues, they are present most of the time at a baseline level but tend to intensify to fever pitches for varying time periods and then return to a baseline. It takes a fair bit of psychological energy to maintain them at their most intense levels, and the feelings will freuqently subside. The case at hand demonstrates exactly this point: the boy didn't maintain the impulse to kill long enough to go out and kill more people, even though that is what he felt like doing at one point - his homicidal rage subsided. If the boy hadn't had easy access to a gun to begin with while the feelings were so intense, the feelings might have subsided before he could manage to kill his family. His problems might have been noticed, he might have gotten treatment, or at least the family might have taken some precautions. Had he not had easy access to guns while in such an intense psychological state, know one knows what would have happened, especially not a short-sighted ignorant moron like you. Guns are an extremely easy and effective killing tool (you don't see the NRA arguing that everyone should be allowed to defend themselves with a can of gasoline) and are frequently used impulsively. I'm not arguing for any easy solutions (there aren't any), just pointing out that you in particular are full of crap when you state that you know what would have happened even if the boy had not had access to guns. You have no idea what would have happened to the family if there had not been guns inthe house. I don't know for certain either, but there is certainly a good chance that they would be alive.

God of Fate

I apologize for not giving credit where credit is due; you did touch lightly on the mental health subject.

But I stand my ground on the fact that your post landed most solidly on the subject of guns. And even the headline of the article makes it clear that this boy's intent was to kill. Had there not been a single gun in that house, his family would be dead.

By focusing tunnel vision on the gun issue, whatever was wrong with this boy is going to get shunted aside and lost in the rhetoric, and if we as a nation don't find an answer to the impulse to kill, brutalize, and destroy that seems to be infecting the young people in our society, the "zombie apocalypse" may become more than a playful joke.

Diego -

Stopped reading your comment after "stfu."

That is the gutter talk of an uneducated, angry idiot with nothing left to say.

@ screminmimi,

The fact that I brought up mental health, and more than lightly as it was also in me second to last paragraph in that post, shows I did not have "tunnel vision" on guns.

"And our lax restrictions on guns, which are far less than we have on my allergy medicine Claritin by the way, are not our only problem."

But we can't just ignore guns, either. My problem with the person I originally responded to, is that he is yet another one who refused to acknowledge that guns do make it easier to kill and did play a part in this. Yes, we should focus on things like mental health, which may or may not have caused this boy to do what he did. But the truth is guns should not be ignored, either.

Again, I support the second amendment. I support the right to defend ourselves with guns. But where do we draw the line? Civilians should simply not have access to every gun and gun related thing ever invented by man. We've clearly shown that we, as a general public, can't handle it. And we should keep better track of which people are allowed to buy what. For instance, I don't want a a person who is a convicted murderer or has serious mental health issues running around with guns. I don't think yo would, either. It isn't safe.

I brought up my Claritin medicine earlier. We have a national database to track it. One click and the clerk can see who is buying it, when they last bought it, and how many they have bought recently. Why don't we require it with guns? This is just another example of us going too far the other way, and being too lax with our guns and gun laws. It is simply silly to not put stuff like this on the table when we have it even for our pharmacies and my fricken Claritin.

@God of Fate - The people who fear tougher gun restrictions, especially those that want to test a person's mental stability and competence in purchasing and owning a gun are those who fear that they would not be able to pass such tests.

There's also no reason for people to own assault-style weapons which are designed for the specific purpose of killing multiple human beings. Oh, ya, people say they need them to challenge the government and the military. Seriously, if it comes to that, as we've seen in other countries, the bulk of the military will side with the people against the government.

Then I also have some nutty acquaintances who say they need these weapons for the upcoming "race wars!" Now isn't that a comforting thought to know that such people can buy such weapons to prepare for such a cause as that?

God of Fate

I'm not disagreeing with you about keeping better track of guns. And I think we should have a federal law that anyone who buys a gun for the purpose of passing it on to a felon who is restricted by law from owning one should have to do jail time. Mandatory. No plea deals.

The greatest weakness in our current gun laws is the justice system and lack of application by judges of honest and true penalties for breaking the laws. Until the judges are forced to apply the laws honestly and equally Congress can pass a bucket full of them and they won't mean a hill of beans.

But this particular case is more about the state of this boy's emotional and mental health than about the guns. Something was going on here that was just so far out of the "normal" range that it defies explanation. What does it take for someone.... anyone.... to kill a two year old child.... never mind that the child is your own sibling. I cannot wrap my mind around the concept that any child could do that to another; therefore, the gun to me is incidental to this story.

@ screminmini,

My issue with the person I originally responded to is that he was another one who refuses to acknowledge the possibility of guns being even part of the problem. And yes, this issue here is more about what the boy did. But he did it with guns, and it is just the latest in a long line of gun homicides. So guns are a related issue we should not be afraid talk about.

Also, note that I am a huge believer in taking better measures for mental health in addition to certain (not all) gun control suggestions, as many of these shooters end up being mentally ill. I don't know anything about this one, but I assume he wasn't right in the head.

No question that guns make it easier to kill multiple people. I, as a gun owner who shoots for sport and competitively, only shoot targets, as I don't even hunt. And, amongst other firearms, I own an "evil" AR-15 and an AK-47. I could say a lot about the "guns are made for killing so they should be banned" feelings people have. But I'm just not in the mood to write a long blog.

I would like to ask everyone one thing. Anybody remember a certain bombing in Oklahoma City in 1996? It resulted in 168 people killed, including 19 children. It was done with a bomb made with fertilizer and cooking oil. Firearm not required.

If someone wants to kill they will find a way to do it, gun or no gun.

@R. Bondy

" if you are too incompetant to hang the "reply" statement after a comment,perhaps you shouldn't be in the position you profess to hold."

Totally correct my friend.. I had to go many comments to get where I could reply to your post. I myself can't understand it when 'replies' are set so far apart and by that time most subjects have either changed or what is replied makes no sense to any posts around it. Even the weakest of forums have replies after comments.. Maybe it's laziness or that so many post that replies would suck up all their back-up power.. who knows, I do know that it's irritating and I rarely participate any more because of it. Thanks for raising the question.

Hey gun owners: - a pattern is developing here. If you have any teenagers or young adults that you have any question about whatsoever, you had better secure your firearms so no one else can access them. These tragedies speak volumes for the need for some gun owners to wake up!

So the kid would have killed his mother and siblings even if he did not have a gun. How hard is it to cut someone's throat while they sleep? The only life that might have been saved was that of the father's. However the gun did what it was supposed to do being a "tool" and that was to let a physically smaller person "defeat" a larger one. Gee I wonder why more women do not find them handy to have around...you know to make them "equal" to men.

Bet the local (to me) woman who was dragged into the woods, raped, and beaten to death today wish she had a gun with her. Bet the local mother who already had a restraining order out against her boyfriend because he beat her before, came back and beat her a$$ again today putting her in the hospital wish she had a gun. And how about the local mother who was shot and killed by her EX today, I bet she wish she had a gun too. Those will never make it here since they did not use a semi-automatic rifle. Better to have it and not need it, then to not have it and need it.

@TheKhanKubla "Seriously, let's cover home defense first. The best weapon for home defense is a double barrel shotgun, 12 or 20 gauge. You do not want to start shooting off multiple rounds from a gun that is going to pass through your walls because when the shooting is over you may find little Timmy or little Sara dead in their beds as well or even find the next day that you've killed one of your neighbors with your Wild Bill gunfight. A shotgun may have enough power to blast through a wall at close range, but it uses most of that force getting through the wall and doesn't have much more after that."

If you are using 00 buckshot like you should be you might just be surprised to find out that .223/5.56 hollowpoint rounds penetrate LESS gelatin after passing through walls compared to 00 buckshot according to tests done by the FBI (would have to find it). Even some ball/FMJ .223 rounds do not penetrate the 12 inch minimum that the FBI requires after passing through several walls. After passing through several walls 00 buckshot still penetrated a block of gelatin over 12 inches. A .33 inch 54 grain pellet from 00 buckshot IS a non expanding FMJ round and I suggest you update your info.

BTW due to the drywall plugging up the handgun hollowpoints causing them to NOT expand and to "act" like FMJ rounds they ALSO penetrated over 12 inches of gelatin after passing through the same several walls. Therefore a .223/5.56mm loaded with ballistic tipped hollowpoints is ONE OF THE BEST home defense guns if overpenetration is a concern to you. The lighter weight bullets fragment quicker, but a 40 grain HP bullet in .223 does not provide enough penetration (under 12 inches). You still must ALWAYS think about what is behind what you are shooting at.

Some extra info for non gun owners.

A .22 Long Rifle (the round used to kill 4 of the 5) out of a rifle length barrel only has approx. 130 foot pounds of force with a 36 to 40 grain bullet traveling at 1250 or so feet per second. Many people die each year due to a lack of respect for this little cartridge. "It is just a little .22"...

A 9mm (115-145 grain), .45 ACP (165-230 grain), and .40 S&W (135-180 grain) handguns all have approx. 400-500 foot pounds of force (depends on barrel length and many other factors) and will all produce similar wound channels and penetration with the "ideal" ammo at close range. (Save the crush, stretch, permanent cavity discussions for elsewhere. If having a .45 or a .40 makes you sleep better at night versus a 9mm, have at it and be my guest. I am not a fan of the steep feed ramp angle of the .40 myself, the feeding issues it can cause with HP rounds, and extra bullet setback it has with uncrimped rounds.)

A .44 magnum can produce well over 1000 foot pounds of force and uses 200-240 grain bullets. A .223/5.56x45mm round can produce 1200-1300 foot pounds, uses 55-62 grain bullets, and they travel at 2800 to 3100 feet per second. The old .308/7.62x51mm round (which the .223 replaced) uses 165 to 180 grain bullets and produces 2700 to 3000 foot pounds of energy.

Muzzle energy is not the end all be all, but it is the amount of energy with which you have to produce a wound channel with and to do damage to vitals. Shot placement really matters. A larger wound channel can make up for some poor aim, but you still have to hit your target and need enough penetration.

Dad got home at "5:00 AM"???

I wonder if he was moonlighting at another job or out fooling around. If the latter, maybe that's why the kid said to the cops he saw his dads "carcass" on the floor. With 10 kids I wouldn't blame him if he was out working all night to feed all those kids. There's much more to this kids hate than what's being reported at this time.

But once again it wasn't the gun that killed these people, it was the crazy kid that killed these people. I'll never understand owners that allow access by their children. I'm a multiple gun owner and was taught at a very young age to respect and handle guns of all sizes and I firmly believe that you can never blame the gun because it will never fire on it's own...it's as simple as that.

I hope the other kids have family near to help them cope...they're going to need it!

@Tired - aren't you the one for statistics. On the battle field and in home defense, statistics mean crap! You're telling people to go head-to-head with someone breaking into their home. Someone who most likely is armed and has experience using those weapons and may have killed people. You want them to stand at the end of the hall, aim their gun at the intruders and take them on in hopes that their hands aren't going to be shaking and that they can even fire their gun once the intruders begin unloading their weapons on them. A shotgun on the other hand, once you've eliminated the fact that these really are intruders and not other family members coming home late, can be pointed around a corner down a hallway, fired, and clear out that hallway. But the real truth is, most intruders can be chased away with simply turning on a light switch. Just because you've read a bunch of data and played video games doesn't make you an authority on real-life situations or how you and other people are going to react when they happen. There's a reason why on stage coaches the person riding "shotgun" carried a shotgun and didn't rely on a Colt or a Winchester. It's the same reason the person on point in the military carries a shotgun - they are effective and quick and easy in taking down an opponent. But only someone who is paranoid relies on a weapon for protection.

I think Nehemiah got fed up with his dad's very late return's to home (5:00 a.m.?). The boy is only 15, he did not know how to handle this properly. He knew he couldn't do anything to change his dad's actions. Remember he does not have a prior criminal record. Nehemiah shot his dad with the most powerful of the guns, the other victims shot with the less powerful one. That action shows his deep hatred for his father. I do not know why he'd shoot the other family members, maybe to create a "crime scene" surrounding his ultimate goal, to kill his dad. Nehemiah's fear and love for God drove him physically to his family church. His concious got to him, being raised in a Christian home. I don't think he would have continued his killing spree. It just sounded tough to claim that, and other statements he made. He does need help, but NOT with the prozac mind altering "medications" of the world. Those "meds" will drive a person to kill others, themselves. I'm praying for this teen. He's NOT a psycho or a nutbag.

Everybody run, The Chaplain has a gun.

Everybody run, The Chaplain has a gun.

@Common Sense-2004266

And yet the .22 he killed his mother and brother and sisters are ok??? I mean look, it is only .003 smaller than the AR Ammo, .223 unless the AR was converted to a .22.

The .22 he used on his Mother and Brother and Sisters are Semi Auto also..it's just a Rim Fire instead of a Center Fire and smaller shell.

I bet his brothers and sisters didn't even hear him shoot his mother as it is a lot quieter!

Nice way to scapegoat the situation and make it a one firearm issue! Oh Oh it was the AR-15's fault!!! not the .22 semi auto also!

Once again you have a derange kid, for who knows why as never been in trouble..and irresponsible parents that cost them their lives!! As my speculations suggested in another thread, if this kid didn't have the guns he would of butcher them as they slept or set the place ablaze!

Why continue to try to explain to people...they will never understand that there is no real difference between "the big scary rifle" and the "little popgun". They are both semi-automatic, both only fire a single shot for each pull of the trigger, and both have almost identical caliber, but because people don't know the difference, they simply believe because of the way the AR-15 LOOKS, the it's "obviously" a much more dangerous weapon.

This is another terrible tragedy. Lets be honest people, the US has always had a well armed citizenry and yet we are hearing more and more about these youths involved in crazy acts of killing. Clearly in our culture something has changed that is effecting our kids. We need some leaders who are really concerned with uncovering just what is happening - not pricks who want to use these tragedies to further their agenda.

Look at the kid's name, Nehemiah, and the environment where he grew up - clearly it was a Christian fundamentalist sect. Who knows what was going on there? Why do you think it is the American guns that's a problem? It is always the American people that are the problem - growing up in a culture of radicalism, violence, brainwashed with bul$$hit ideology. Look at our movies, look at our video games, look at our foreign policy - it is ALL about violence, all about coming up on top no matter what. It is our entire culture that is a problem, not merely easy access to guns.

jpooch00-1527514

are you really that stupid. sorry to clue you in on something buddy but liberals are not the ones that are crying about violence in video games and movies. that would be your darling republicans.

For the last time-Guns do not kill people, bullets do. :)

I would like to see some reporting about any medications these young mass murderers were taking. Not that I necessarily buy into that conspiracy, but I think it's important for the public to know if there were any common medications like Ritalin, Concerta, etc or any anti-depressants. Something is causing these kids to snap, and it isn't the guns.

"He told police that he found his father's "carcass" on the ground floor.", "wore nothing but camouflage stuff.", indicates the boy was probably taken hunting by his parents and was desensitized to killing. I don't think it is ever a good idea to teach children hunting. I thought in most serial killer cases it came to light that as a kid the person used to torture animals, hmmm, there just might be a correlation here? Kids should be taught to respect life and others and then let them choose their profession when they grow up whether they want to hunt. Keeping guns lying around the house unsecured with a house full of 10 kids is just plane insane as well and seems like the dad was a firefighter, which makes it even more confounding. The gun culture we are professing is going to be our undoing as a society if we don't take action now.

Just a very very tragic situation which could totally have been avoided.

for the people on here that are racists and think they are hiding it by using the PC term "demographics", you aren't fooling anyone but yourself. You are trying to claim that the only reason the USA has higher rates of gun crimes is due to all the brown and black people in our country..... wow, cause there has never been a white gang/gang-member in our country, ever. it couldn't possibly be the fact that guns are everywhere in our country? That there are more guns in our country than people? Fair enough, your entitled to your opinions, even if they are racists and or just stupid, i have my own and no doubt that many don't agree with mine.

As for the racial profiling you are atempting to bring up yet hide, here is one for you. the majority of all mass killings done in our country (most notably the school shootings), have been committed by white men/boys from "well off" families. So the best way to combat this would be to no longer allow the breeding of white men, right? cause its not the guns that are the problem its the people using them right? Hell we can throw you a bone u can breed but if the offspring is to be a male the pregnancy must be aborted or the child given over to the government for adoption to another country, boom problem solved, within a generation or so the white male would be gone and we wouldn't have to worry about mass shootings anymore! Right?

Back to the gang problem, cause it is a problem and i do admit it counts for a good chunk of the gun violence in the USA. Its not very liby of me but i really hate gangs and gangmembers, i am hispanic and hate that gang bangers is what is associated with my community, as should everyone of color and non-color should be as well. see its all the "races" in our country that are involved with gangs it is an American issue not a black/white/brown/red/yellow/ or rainbow issue.

I for one when it comes to gangs am in favor of bringing back the ways of the old west, gangs should be outlawed (i would include political parties among the list of gangs in our country), if found to be a member of any gang after your trial you would then be banned from entering city/town limits, if you are a person who has been banned and you choose to disregard your banishment you will be shot and killed on sight. If you choose to have your rag of whatever color hanging out of your pocket or around your head then you will be immediately registered as a gang member and banished without trial. Punishment for your crimes used to be serious enough to deter most crime, its far past time we focus on making this statement true once again, atleast for the crimes that affect others, if you want to poison yourself thats fine with me.

Our gang problems, though a separate issue from what we are supposed to be discussing about this article (gun violence), are related and is another serious issue our country needs to crack down on, the sooner the better.

TheKhan.....you said the best home defense gun was a double barrel shotgun. You better hope like hell if you're ever the victim of a home invasion, it's not by 3 ppl, maybe coming in from different doors or windows, cause ur butt is gonnna be next on the obit page somewhere cause you limited yourself to only 2 shots. Get at least a pump shotgun

what, christian pastors dont hunt? i know alot of the ones here do, hopefully they keep their guns locked up when not hunting but whos to say.

Of course, this time it does beg the question: How and why does a Christian pastor have multiple guns openly available to his/her children?

You just never know.

There is a possibility that they weren't actually his guns. How much of a possibility is anyone's guess, but it is not uncommon for someone who has a gun, or several, to leave them to the care of someone they trust should they suddenly find themselves displaced from their home temporarily or if they are called to leave home for an extended period of time and aren't sure if they'll ever be coming back. Displaced from home could happen if one lost their job, could no longer afford the rent, but where they were going to be living until they can get back on their feet may not be a place to keep guns, such as a homeless shelter. Leaving home for awhile could be attending college or being deployed overseas while in the service. The rifles may have belonged to someone in the family, or a friend. When I enlisted, I left my .22 rifle and 12 gauge shotgun to my brother until I returned. He had them, but they were not his. I certainly couldn't take them with me!

If something like this happened, the minister may have felt safe knowing that 1) his kids didn't know they were in the closet and, 2) he had no ammunition for the guns. Problem with that is that 1) kids of all ages tend to snoop wherever, including parents' closets when no one is looking, and 2) it's not that hard to scrounge up some .22 rimfire cartridges and some .223 rifle cartridges. He might not have been able to buy them over the counter anywhere as a minor, but if he asked around enough, someone would certainly be able to get them to sell to him for the right price. I'm sure they'd never have suspected this as an outcome, however. It's also not exactly impossible to swipe boxes of .22 and .223 cartridges off the shelf at places that do sell them; I've seen people do it through the years, and they were mostly teenagers who wouldn't be allowed to purchase them. Too bad my witnessing it doesn't justify store personnel in apprehending such a shoplifter.

what, christian pastors dont hunt? i know alot of the ones here do, hopefully they keep their guns locked up when not hunting but whos to say.

Depending on how rural the place was, it is possible that it was in fact the father's guns and he kept them for pest and predator control. They absolutely should have been locked up, but some people will forego that under the mistaken assumption that their kids don't know where the guns are, that they'd never touch them, or that they can't get ammunition for them. Not good! No one should ever put anything past a teenage son, especially one who doesn't seem to be 100% properly adjusted. Wearing nothing but camouflage clothing is a definite hint of not being entirely well adjusted!

Man..I don't know everything, but what I DO know is that the youth today scares the living @!$%# outta me!!!

It's tragic, and it's safe to say it will happen again. Our culture has failed to revere our elders for a long time, and we have lived in fear of our own offspring for quite a while as well. About time to ask if there might be something wrong with our entire culture, guns not withstanding.

America should ban rural communities in New Mexico.

Great retort Zheng...never heard it before.

Pastor was a former gang member and prison inmate.

We are very much alive and well. We are not sheep following anyone as you claim (as you ARE). There is nothing wrong with our values, rights, and morals. They match the feelings of the men and women who built this great nation. We are not misled easily, as you have been.

"Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free"

Yeah, let POS media tell you what you need to think. They could wait to report that this kid WAS going to kill more people. Well might as well accuse him of it and report those "almost" killings, with an AR-15 of course. Are you "anti's" even aware that the AR-15 type rifle is 1) no more or no less than any other SEMI-automatic rifle. 2) it is a customizable type rifle with many interchangeable barrels, stocks, action, etc that make it one of the most popular rifles on the selves. Maybe that's why so many people have them. Or maybe it's just because the media is reporting whatever they want to advance king obama's agenda.

Does anyone think he'll ask mercy from the court because he is now an orphan!!

Jimmy---No the NRA will probably want to know if shooter was taking SSRI's and if the family were democrats as the last 5 mass murders were or were themselves.

As you say.... 'Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." (including you)

Shall we ban knives, hammers, bats, cars, swimming pools, showers, stairs, and anything else that kills people too?

Or shall we create a society where the mentally ill can get help and criminals are severely punished for their violent acts?

Jeffersonian3, guns are a good place to start. Then we can have a study done on the use of swimming pools and stairs as murder weapons.

Or shall we create a society where the mentally ill can get help

Anyone want to bet that Jefferson here would be the first to scream his bloody head off if he had to pay taxes to provide that mental help?...

Ask the people of Mexico, Brazil, England, Australia and other countries what happens when guns are taken away from law-abiding citizens...the violent crime rate goes way up. Every time.

Some of you people act like guns are the problem, but humans are a violent race and will always find ways to commit violence.

Guns are used to prevent crime about 100 times more often than they are used to commit crime.

The majority of violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders.

About 95% of violent crime is committed by repeat offenders, drug dealers, street gang members, and known felons.

More people get killed each year with knives than rifles.

The deadliest mass murder at a school in American history took place without anyone getting shot. 37 kids, 6 adults killed...up to 57 more injured in Bath, Michigan from a school bombing in 1927 committed by one guy.

More people get killed by fists every year than rifles.

Countries with gun bans have sexual assault rates of up to 200% higher than America.

The point is...people will always kill people. But disarming the law-abiding citizens has ALWAYS led to more deaths...by criminals, by terrorists, sometimes by their own governments.

Jeffersonian,

There is a big difference between using guns and using knives, hammers, or bats.

Killing with knives, hammers, or bats is way more up close and personal

But dead is dead, is it not? I don't think anyone killed by a knife had the last words of "thank God he didn't shoot me".

Ask the people of England, Australia...

Jeffersonian,

What the heck are you talking about ?

Homicide by firearm rate per 100,000 pop:

Australia---------------0.14

England and Wales---0.07

USA--------------------2.97

Don't believe me ?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

Want more statistics ? Just google "murder rates, or crime rates by country".

More like special ed. You do know that he could've gone and got an axe or hammer and killed them all in their sleep right. He could've barricaded the doors and burned the house. Use your imagination.

Great idea rafal. Then we can have violent crime go up 200%, but at least we won't be getting shot.

Rafal...nice try. Those are the homicide rates by firearms...in countries that had low rates of firearm homicides BEFORE the gun bans. Look at what happens to violent crime....which means you'll have to look at crimes not committed with guns...the criminals use other weapons AND the rates of assaults, home invasions, and rapes go way up after gun bans.

And...would you like to dispute that neither Australia nor Austria have the disgustingly rampant gang violence that America does? Look at the racial demographics in those countries...look at who is committing most of the violence in America...look to see if those countries border a country like Mexico that is responsible for an unending stream of illegal people, guns, and drugs...look at who would STILL have guns if a ban was put into place in America. It's a pretty scary thought...try some statistics yourself and look up how many estimated gang members there are in this country. You want to bet that they'll turn in their guns like law-abiding citizens?

OK, Jeffersonian, I give up. No sense to reason with you.

Doubt it!

This teenager was determined to kill - guns or no guns.

But the readily available guns made it so quick and easy. /s

Stick to reality and the facts, he used his parents GUNS, not a hammer, or wrench or anything but GUNS.

Trying to talk sense to people who just stomp their feet and shake their heads demanding more guns, is like talking to little kids who want some candy at the store when their mother tells them NO.

Yeah, greg, so let's just make it easy for him, right?...

Bluebird-

Trying to talk sense to people who just stomp their feet and shake their heads demanding more guns, is like talking to little kids who want some candy at the store when their mother tells them NO.

Who is demanding more?? You are demanding less. We are saying it required someone sick enough to shoot his own little brother and sister to commit this act, you are saying the gun MADE him do it. Be honest, what would you have said if he did use a hammer? Most likely "oh, wow that is so horrible". Just say that and move along, if you agree that it was the psycho kid responsible.

The chances are very strong that if there were no guns in that house these people would be alive today

You are full of crap.

Based on what that boy told law enforcement, he was hell-bent on killing his family. Had there not been a single firearm in that home, a knife would have done just as well, or even kerosene and a match.

Whatever was in his mind that made killing his own family an attractive thing to do is the real story here, and it is being obscured by the gun hysteria.

Bluebird, "death is death," you people act like when guns are taken out of the equation, people suddenly become stable, reasonable people with no intent to harm anyone.

Guns are a part of most people's lives, especially mine. When everyone asks, "who hunts with an AR-15," they seem to forget there are more animals than just deer out there. In Alaska, there is this majestic beast out there that does not fear gunfire, nor care that you are significantly safe from it, it is hungry, cold, and constantly traveling across frozen wastes. This beast is called a wolf, more specifically, an Omega. Omega's are outcast wolves that are not allowed in packs and are a major threat to civilians. If it thinks it might have a chance at a meal, it will take it no matter the cost.

Wolves are fast, aggressive, and deadly, especially in a snowstorm. An increasing problem along the Yukon river is that wolves are adapting to humans. Gunfire rarely frightens them anymore, Omega's numbers are increasing, for years the storms were very bad in my area, driving away a lot of their food, except for the past 2-3 years. When there is no food, the pack gets smaller, now all of their game is returning WITH the outcasted wolves.

Would YOU take away MY best defense against scores of children being dragged away to be eaten by wolves? How would you feel if your child got eaten by wolves and someone had to tell you "if only we had the weaponry... But you stopped us from being allowed to have it."

Come to think of it, I don't think I would ask for your approval of me being allowed to defend myself and others. I wasn't living here at the time, but when the assault weapons ban went into effect, it didn't exist in this community.

If it saves just one life... right?

Jeffersonian3,

I think your stats are a little wrong when referring to Australia. As you can see down below, in 2006-2007 TOTAL HOMICIDES are 260. Extrapolate Australia's 2006 population of 20 million to Americas 2006 population of 299 million and the total homicides of Australia would be around 3,887. The 2006 TOTAL HOMICIDES of the United States is 17,030 (www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm). Let me reiterate that this is the total homicides, guns and all. Furthermore, these are also two completely different societies and to compare them straight across the board is stupid. You also have to remember that Australians never had a constitutional right to own whatever gun they wanted and believe it or not, many Australians did not own guns. Obvious many of us in America feel strongly about fiddling with the 2nd Amendment, being it is a constitutional right, but you have to admit, there needs to be some sort of regulation. Just like getting a drivers license to drive, maybe having a gun ownership license would help. I don't know what the answer is but doing nothing will solve nothing. And for the record I am an American contractor living in Australia.

www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html

"Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007), the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in 1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate, of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population.

Murder is the predominant charge and has been throughout the 18-year data-collection period. In 2006-07, there were 230 murder charges, 28 manslaughter charges, one infanticide charge, and one unknown. The type of charge against an offender may change once the incident proceeds through the judicial process."

Ed Burke (#7), the NRA does not say guns do not kill people. Of COURSE the NRA knows a person can kill with a gun. And they don't advocate that "everyone" should have guns. Just the oppposite. The NRA says that clearly gun ownership is not for everybody. Some people simply should not be gun owers for a variety of reasons.

The NRA works to protect the second amendment and is a strong supporter of gun owners being REPONSIBLE gun owners.

The NRA is demonized by the anti-gun crowd repeatedly. By people who know nothing about the organization. But I really don't expect these people to educate themselves.

Jeffersonian3 just wants guns for White Americans. Three recent incidents of Blacks arrests for just being in posession of a gun got little to know public defense from pro gun activists. I think it is fairly clear that the the current gun fanaticism is a threat veiled in patriotism that certain classes of American will resort to violence rather than sumit to Black authority figures in any role in America, especially in the White House.

I am in England right now and the violent crime statistic is over 2000 per 100,000 people with South Africa being 2nd but theirs is 1100 per 100,000 people. I'm not talking about homosides, this is violent crime.

All you people who are saying Australia only had this many or England only had that many, how about you remember that guns are BANNED in these country yet there are still gun homosides!!! Kind of skews the percentages a whole lot I would say.

You can put the 2.9% figure up there but you need to compare US figures to country that don't ban firearms. The US isn't even in the top ten world wide if you look at those numbers.

The big issue here is why did the boy do it. Just like every other shooting, the media wants to point out one weapon being used. I own a .223 weapon. It is a great size round for varmint, since I do have a small farm with animals I need to protect them from varmint, human and animal alike. I am not worried about home invaders, that is not what I need my rifle for, I am not going to go out and protect my livestock with a machete, knife or hatchet. It seems like a lot of the anti gun people are from cities and don't realize there are people who live off the land and don't have a grocery store right down the street. I shoot what meat I want and grow most of my own vegetables. I even have dairy goats for milk. I am not a recluse or crazy either. I just don't enjoy the company of most people in what has become our world anymore.

@allen l. lee. That is the only racist comment I have read on this forum. Where were they from? When did it happen? Just curious because my wife shared a story about a white guy being arrested for having a weapon in his truck because it wasn't in a gun case but it was unloaded but you didn't hear about that one either.

And in case you didn't know, the office of the President is not someone for the people of the United States to "submit" to. Black, White or Other! As a soldier I took an oath to protect the Constitution of the United States. That is what the anger is about.

Like I said before, this should be about the problems of the boy not the weapons used or the racist comments.

Wow how did every single one of you miss Jeffersonian3's POINT. VIOLENT CRIMES GO UP WHEN GUNS ARE GONE. Sorry every single country that has banned guns the violent crime numbers are up. Spouting "facts" about gun homicides are down or wow homicides are down is not the total picture. We can argue that homicides are down here to and find a stat to prove that. Robbery/Assault/Rape/etc all go up when only the criminals have guns. I doubt many folks are worried you have a knife if they are trying to rob/rape/assault you now are they. But that's ok keep with the distractions from the real issue. Take the guns away like ALL of these other countries have done and see what happens. The outcome is generally a lot worse then you are led to believe all but hey that's just crazy talk....

Most of the arguments I'm reading assume a complete ban on guns. The argument should be about the qualifications needed to legally own guns and the type of guns to ban to reduce mass murders. I don't think anyone believes this will stop the problem completely, but it's hard to argue that it won't help.

@formersoldier. The President was elected by a democratic process, reflecting the will of the majority and a demonstartion that the government is a government of the people. The civilian Commander in Chief re-assures that the military is also at the will of the people as long as the President is elected by us. The laws are also ours to preserve or change as we see fit, but all persons are obliged to follow them until we change them. The point about our democracy is that although the majority decides who represents all of us, our laws protect the minoprity population that did not choose a particular representative. You should equally respect the will of the people as a soldier and their choice for elected officials.

Allen, you seem to forget a few words in the pledge of allegiance.

"...and to the republic, for which it stands"

We are by no means a democracy, a democracy would mean we could choose who the president is, which is the job of the electoral college, not the people. In a democracy, all people can vote, not a select few. The founding fathers made certain that people understood why it would be stupid to allow 51% to rule over 49%.

We are by no means a democracy...

Excuse me, OldGrey ? The United States is not a democracy ?!

Of course it is. The United States is a democracy with a republican form of government.

So does your vote decide who the president is?

The answer is no.

"Democracy is a form of government in which all eligible citizens have an equal say in the decisions that affect their lives."

To be honest, democracy is more of a generalization and not quite accurate at describing a form of government. Sort of like "all men are created equal." we know that is simply not true.

Again, OldGreyWolf, "a democratic process" providing that the will of the people as a majority prohibits a government of autocrats and/or monarchs. An elected civilian Commander in Chief along with an elected Congress checks the advent of a military junta government and keeps the military in the hands of "the people. It's the prime tenet of a government of the people. The will of the majority is checked from mob rule by the Republic principle of the sovereignty of the individual and expressed through the application of law to which each individual is accountable to and protected by. We also pledged allegiance to the flag, but the Supreme Court said that the law allowed an individual to burn it.

I've had some time to look more into how democracy works and I would say you have done a better job at explaining it. Good show, I'm glad it turned out that way, good to spread knowledge without all of the usual foolishness on the vine.

"When all else fails, resort to name calling" -The code which 98% of people here follow, unfortunately. :/

Thanks OldGreyWolf. Allow me to offer you mutual respect. When reading your future posts I will give them greater consideration than those who rely on insults. Iunderstand the 2nd Amendment argument of the rights of the people to bear arms, collectively and as individuals, but our society has always done a balancing act with the rights of the individual versus the welfare of the whole society. I think I should have the right to take the risk of flying through my own car windshield wothout wearing a seatbelt because there is no proof that I will ever have an accident, but statistics for the general public say that hazards are real, so the will of the majority outweighs my right to take that risk.

Jimmy Muchetti

Irrelevant to this and many other family gun tragedies. see my post below.

DC vs. Heller 2008. Supreme court ruled that individuals have a right to keep and bear arms for personal protection separate from any militia membership or defending the state etc.

The meaning behind "The People," is just that. EVERYBODY. Is that so hard to understand? Seriously? Or do you need a professor to weigh in on this?

A well regulated militia is any able bodied person or persons capable of taking up arms in the defense of this nation

The National Guard is part of the military

The meaning of the second amendment is so people like me and YOU if you so choose , to defend this nation against terrorism both foreign and domestic

Kayyan is right, the court also said that the right is "not unlimited" Most persons believe that the 2nd was drafted witha two fold intent to protect States rights and the right if the individual. There has always been a balancing act in our society between the right of an individual versus the welfare of the general public. That is one of the reasons why driving is considered a privilege, and not a right, because the welfare of the general public has outweighed the right of the individual. If Arizona goes back to the days of range wars I'd bet they'll find a few laws limiting the use of guns. It's still illegal to have two sticks and a chain, Nunchukas in Arizona.

Right your are, and they just put all owners in that group.

The right to keep a gun for personal protection just killed 5 innocent people. What about the protection for those 5 people?

Children in a home where there are numerous guns don't seem to have any rights according to some.

The chance of an accident or family murder is higher in these gun houses.

The kids at the school in CT. didn't get to enjoy their right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

What about their rights?

It's too bad there are so many who only think of their selves and to hell with everyone else.

Sickening IMO.

first of all it is the fault of the parent because if you were a resposible parent you would make sure your child knew the true outcome of the use of the gun and yes never keep the guns and amo in the same place most children nowdays has no clue the damage a gun can cause they dont realize it dont have a new life button because most adults dont have the common sence of a rat they only want to look kool and they dont know the first thing of proper gun owner ship . as us army sniper and marksman instructor working on a public firing range have seen some very stupid things like a man with his ar-15 hitting his target for the first time and turing around and continuing pulling the triger and spraying the area with bullets this is the common sence of the parents that are letting our children live in a world where our actions are somone elses fault the .223 round is a varmit round very fast and accurate and the m-15 /ar-15 /m-4 were built around this bullet they are all pecices of s@#t and if people knew this there would be none sold how ever if you as a parent have guns in your home PLEASE teach your children to respect them and teach proper use of them and if you cannot PLEASE take them to a local firing range so they can learn properly .PLEASE teach them to be responable for their own actions its not the gun that kills its is the disrespect of human life and the balentant disrespect of a powerful tool that kills not the gun it self and if you comitte a crime with a gun face your punishment like an adult dont try and pawn it off as somone else did it . to stop the gun crimes the sentences for gun crimes need to be in creased if you comit murder with a gun it should be life with out parol and if its a premeditated its lights out stop giving a slap on the wrist it sends a message that i can do any thing i want and ill just get a short time and no follow up.

Bob and Bluebird- As a gun owner (not a "nut"), I can tell you that I feel everyone has Rights. But abolishing firearms will take away WAY more rights than it will grant. There are those that cannot defend themselves with bare fists and Jean-Claude Van Damme poses. Honestly, I wish there were no scary people or animals out there but there are. There are obviously even teenagers that want to kill their entire familia, then othert random people. Well I'm a random person. So are you. The difference is that I am prepared to defend myself.

It is difficult with teens for parents to differentiate a "stage" and with adults "mid-life crisis" from a potentially life threatening situation. Often the only difference between a passing acting out stage and a tragedy is the availability of a deadly weapon at a particular moment in time.

Since America has become awash in guns, thank you gun profiteers, those moments for family tragedy have become "anytime" and will continue to be so as long as guns are so readily available in the family home, relatives' homes, and friends' homes, gun shows and for sale on the streets/internet.

crazy plus anything is a bad combination ...dont leave out the crazy part..thats the answer..

I agree completely. I also think young men are too impulsive and immature to have access to personal firearms in an unsupervised situation. I also have questions about some psychotropic drugs being prescribed to adolescents - are they really safe?

Well time to send All the Young men and women home from the ARMY..

ps they are the impulsive and immature young Americans that are protecting your freedoms..

Now they are availible??Did they just drop out of the sky overnight?Must have missed that.

Google the Minuteman militia. Most states have one and they are based out of Minnesota. I am from Tennessee and we have one also.

Here is the link in case you couldn't find it. Just trying to help you with your journey!

#Active_militia_movement_groups.2C_2010

Well said, agreed.

And to think this happened in a good Christian two parent home. /s

In the past two decades gun ownership has gone up substantially in the United States, at the same time the level of violent crime in the United States has DECREASED significantly. We are far below countries like England, Mexico, Australia, and Brazil that have banned guns and seen dramatic increases in violent crime.

The NRA does support reasonable measures...like making it illegal for felons to own guns, like background checks, and (gasp) actually punishing criminals for their crimes and not letting them out on parole after they have served a fraction of their sentences.

And ice cream causes drowning, Jefferson...

(translation: correlation DOES NOT EQUAL causation)

Jefferson..we don't need the NRA to support Measures like making it illegal for felons to own guns, and punishing people for their crimes.

We have LAWS already on the books for those things. It's the COURTS that are letting these people out and illegally getting guns to kill again

Well James...someday soon you might need that 2nd amendment to protect you from losing all the other amendments.. the Bill of Rights was written to protect American Citizens from government..

James-316346, I'm glad you have no personal desire to own firearms because based on the ranting in your first paragraph, I think you fit all of those descriptions that you shared. If you had a firearm at hand you may be liable to, in a dither, bust a cap into someone's arse when you really didn't mean to.

I own guns and will be the first to say there are some people out there who shouldn't have them whether it be for mental problems or past history. The point I want to make is while the government is keeping everyone busy with the 2nd amendment, our other rights are being taken away.

The first amendment has already taken a hit while everyone was busy with gun issues. You can now be arrested on felony charges for protesting ANYWHERE the secret service are protecting someone. You don't even have to be participating. If the person they are protecting tell them to arrest you are arrested no matter the cirumstances.

How long before forums like this are taken away? The NSA already monitors the internet and email for key words and phrases. The government already releases the information they want passed along to the public. What happened to the "transparent government" we were promised in the first inauguration speech?

For those of you not paying attention they are going after the 10th amendment too.

Our family owns guns, we have no problems with guns in our family..whats wrong with stupid people like you mono..?

Someone in our family was killed by an accidental shooting in the neighbors home. He could have as easily been ran over by a car in front of his house. This incident was not an accident but people kill people with cars too. In other words people kill people with lots of different inanimate objects and yet far more of them use those objects for their intended purpose and that makes our country the most amazing one in the world.

NRA does not celebrate tragedies, Monothought. The members are real people with souls and compassion. I know you want to believe otherwise so you can continue to talk your nonsense. Your side always attempts to portray gun owners in a negative light since you have no valid points to bring to the debate.

Great video & thanks for sharing.

Mr Colion Noir is a great man!

Well, you see, MJ, they have to have the guns loaded and unlocked just in case all them-thur blue helmets from the black helicopters come bustin' through the door to take his guns, or in case a few dozen blah people try to invade his home! Triggers locks are a commie plot to them...

Agree Cat

one of my guns is less than two feet from me unlocked and loaded the rest of my family know its there also just in case its needed..Its hard to believe so many Americans are ready to give up their freedoms..?

MoreJustice, I know people like you. You don't hate guns, in fact, you support the use of them on everyone who doesn't agree with you. Just as long as they are held in the hands of "Government Officials." "These murders will continue until every last gun owner is made to be responsible," you say. Will you lock us up? Make us repent? Or just breed us out of your passive aggressive utopia that you pine for? The funny thing is that all of the Anti-Firearm people have one major thing in common. The desire to control the decisions and abilities of their neighbors. Control. Think about that word.

Dad busy with his ministry and volunteer work (coming home at 5AM). Mom busy with the younger kids and being a pastors wife. This young man was left to his own devices. Those parents weren't paying attention. His camo wear was a cry for help a sign of something wrong. The parents probably had no idea he was sick or they just wrote it off as a phase. Shot his mom in her sleep, probably thinking thanks mom you could have prevented this.

"Our founders wanted the "PEOPLE"

Yeah. That must be why they put the right to bear arms into the context of a "well regulated militia." Maybe it was just a typo?

I guess all of these quotes were typos also?????

"No Free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." (Thomas Jefferson, Proposal Virginia Constitution, 1 T. Jefferson Papers, 334,[C.J.Boyd, Ed., 1950])

"Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244

"the ultimate authority ... resides in the people alone," (James Madison, author of the Bill of Rights, in Federalist Paper #46.)

"...to disarm the people - that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them." (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380)

"Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American... The unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state government, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people" (Tench Coxe, Pennsylvania Gazette, Feb. 20, 1788)

WLDLV: Those are private opinions. If it's not in the Constitution, it's not relevant.

Tracy,

Read the 2nd amendment and see that is if fact does say, "the right of the people to keep and bear arms".If the people only applies to a militia, then where ever "people" is used in the rest of the constitution also applies only to a militia.

The pre amble starts with "We, the People". Of course that could mean "We the Militia"

Sweetie, why would you describe free speech or freedom of religion in the context of a militia? Do you know what the word militia means?

TraceyS

WLDLV: Those are private opinions. If it's not in the Constitution, it's not relevant.

Those are the opinions of some of the people that signed the Constitution. I consider them pretty damned relevant.

Could not agree more. If you can lay down 2 grand for a Bushmaster then you can lay down some for a gun safe and a second one for ammunition.

The NRA has been teaching gun and safety classes for Many years...Would be a good idea for many to sign up and take some classes

What does being a man of God have to do with anything..he Was a American citizen and the law said

he can own a gun. mentally unstable people can commit unspeakable crimes anytime and any place...FYI

I wonder what psych medicine he badly needed but wasn't taking.

While watching ads on TV for anti-depressants, I notice that the side effects are sometimes suicidal thoughts.

Some medications cause these abnormal suicidal and homicidal thoughts.

Yes Bluebird,,I listen to those commercials to. The cures in many cases are worse than the disease they are supposedly helping.

I actually had some low-info gun nu...er...enthusiast try to convince me that the Newtown killer could have taken out 26 people with a rock. I am not making this up.

So Daddio, of course, blames everything except the availability of an arsenal of guns...

On the contrary, but while we're putting law abiding American's 2nd amendment rights on trial, why aren't we questioning the "entertainment" industry's 1st amendment right to produce toxic garbage and foist it on our children under the blanket of "freedom of speech"? I haven't heard one single liberal point to Hollywood and say "you're to blame for these senseless tragedies!". Well, I've got news for you Cat. There is blood on all of our hands if we don't take an HONEST look at the culture that is behind this violence. And our society's collective blood-lust for "entertainment" purposes is JUST as culpable as the NRA and gun makers for this nonsense. You can justify it any way you want, but the bottom line is that we are letting Hollywood teach our kids that there are no consequences for violent behavior while we all look the other way.

Sorry, bub, but the rest of the world is watching the same movies and playing the same games and still have lower homicide rates, so it isn't as simple as "bad-old-Hollywood". Something specific to our culture makes shooting seem a reasonable solution to problems in this nation, and there are no simple answers...

Yeah, I've noticed a trend from liberals like you. You like to state "facts" about how the rest of the world is better blah... blah... blah, but you always shut up when challenged to provide the proof that backs up your "facts". Do you really believe that the "rest of the world" is as infatuated with violence as Americans are or do you want ME to believe it? If you want me to believe it, you're going to have to do better than that.

Conjuring. I blame the shooter. Yes the guns were there. Guns are in many homes all across the country. But how often does something like this happen?

There are millions of guns in homes all over. But very few mass murderers.

But we always blame the guns.

Daddio927,

I have been living in Australia for about a year now and they have the same games and movies we have in America. Furthermore, they swear, show nudity and all the violence on the television and nobody seems to have a problem. So blaming movies and video games is crap, it is something else that drives America to high levels of crime

The most violent video games and movies can be seen in Japan, and South Korean youth play more violent video games than anyone else according to recent studies. Number of deaths by guns? Nil. Levels in violence in general in both countries? Hardly registers compared to the levels of violence in the US. Try again.

If the kid was in another country, the politicians would rally to his side, yelling,"He's killing his own people" , "He just wants Democracy." Americas answer on television is to settle with violence and accept collateral damage. This kid wore camouflage clothing all the time, no one saw a problem?

I don't want to talk about his troubles, I want to talk about why in the hell another "law abiding" citizen has left his instruments of death within easy reach of children, or anyone else for that matter.

So basically you do not want a "REAL" solution?

You want to suggest that if the guns were not in the house this would not have happened.

The idea to some would make sense, but it's just not logical.

If someone is mentally unstable, and is having suicide or homicidal thoughts it is not relevant? That is basically what you are saying.

Do you promote mental health issues? Do you believe his state of mind had NOTHING to do with what happened?

That's fine if you don't want to talk about it. You just go ahead and bury your head in the sand. Just go ahead and join the other liberal lemmings in their righteous indignation about our "gun culture". Those of us who can still think for ourselves would like some real answers to the problem.

I didn't say anything about no guns in the house. What I did say was that they were left to open easy access. That my friend is the same old story over and over again. If you don't have enough sense to secure your firearms you have no business with them to begin with.

I do not have all the details on how the firearms in this home were stored.

But under the circumstances you are saying "IF" the guns were locked up, surely this would of prevented his homicidal motive and NOTHING would of happened?

Is that what you are saying?

My turn:

*IF* the guns in this home were stored in a safe locked up and this "MURDER" still took place. Would you then look at his motive for committing this crime without bringing guns to the table?

Honestly, what is it going to take for people to address the reality of these situations?

clark..that law abiding citizen doesn't need a reason for having a gun or guns in his home..

I have several guns in my home. I like guns, like hunting, like shooting, like protecting my family if needed..I like the Bill of Rights for protecting my freedoms from government thugs..if needed

by the way clark..my guns are in easy reach if needed, and ready to use..

You guys still don't get it!! The guns make it so much EASIER to kill people, and it's part of our shoot-em-up culture. Guns are cool to fire, there is the noise, at night there is the flash, the smell of the gun powder. After fifty years of being a gun owner, I still like shooting. Who is going to go to all the trouble and work to burn down their own house to kill their family, when a gun are at hand, or use an axe, like Lizzie Borden, when an AR-15 will do the job, and it's exciting to pull a trigger. These kids can be "Rambo" for a few minutes. That is what has to stop, no more "Rambos", no more "Matrix", no more "Terminators", no more stand up blow aways, somehow we have to take the fun out of killing innocent people. Especially little kids!!

This is another kid that was nuts, who knows what was wrong with him, if it's true that all he wore were camos, you might think something was amiss. They said he was home schooled. So maybe he didn't get much socialization. I think there are lots of kids like this across our nation, in homes, with guns available, it just takes a little push and another family bites the dust. But hey! It's not the guns, right. My question is, how many bloody deaths will it take, before it is the guns, and with how much news coverage one these crazy people gets, you can almost see the next headlines.