Did this Police Officer kill his family with an AR-15 assualt rifle? Nope, and it shows the people judging the everyday citizens have plenty of crazys within their ranks even as leaders...........

Kind of shows the need to get rid of ALL guns, doesn't it.

dirp

Kind of shows the need to get rid of ALL guns, doesn't it.

so you admit you DO want to take ALL guns away?

I will make you a deal.. when you can guarantee with YOUR life that NO ONE else has a firearm of any sort then I will surrender mine. Until then... I'll keep mine thank you very much.

Bat@!$%# crazy cops. Who knew.

I'm of this train of thought. No matter what others choose to do with their weapon of choice, I'm keeping mine.

My M16 kept me safe through 20 years of military service. Now my personal weapon keeps my family safe from crazies that choose to do harm. Just look at the stories of gun violence coming from such places as the Mall, Beauty Salons, Wal-Mart parking lots, theatres, Public Schools,etc...

When we can go a week without any such stories being in the news, I MIGHT consider disarming. Until then...

This Police Officer probably just snapped from all the crap he saw during his career or had some mental breakdown for whatever reason. Shame he went this route. The innocents did not deserve this. May they RIP.

I'm sure the video games and media NRA excuse caused this cop to shoot his 7-year old son and wife. After all, the NRA is never wrong. Right!

Well, this news story shows mentally ill can get assault style weapons pretty easily...

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/22/16643098-the-monster-want-out-mentally-ill-killer-amassed-huge-arsenal-police-say?lite

We need a stronger mental health system. I'm still a fan of yearly mental health screenings to own a gun.

How about you?

Why couldn't this guy just off himself and leave his wife and kid out of it?

I'm completely amazed that no one cares about the fact that this man's family, and his wife's family will suffer greatly over this horrible situation.

Something terrible must have been going on in his life for him to take this kind of desperate measure.

I pray for the families of this family.

Fortunately, guns are not a problem in this country.

@Eric: I'm still a fan of yearly mental health screenings to own a car.

How's that work for you?

..the term you're looking for is "unreasonable bar". Which is why District_of_Columbia_v._Heller went the way it did.

Nope, nothing's ever going to work. The one thing no one can do is control the actions of other people. People are the wild variable in the equation, and always will be.

Creek Dog: "Here we go again," every day. No need to make such an announcement on one story, unless you plan to visit every story to say the same thing.

Seven2Seven - You do realize that very few people are actually killed with rifles?

Creek Dog, I have respected your posts on NBC. I do not have a knee-jerk, simple answer to this or to Sandy Hook; I believe in reasonable gun control, but also recognize that our society recognizes mental illness too late. I am not "anti-NRA" but also do not believe that video games cause most people to be violent. I would join the NRA but for its extremism in some of its positions (such as the "gun show loophole"). I don't fear the common, decent gun owner, but here is a tragic case where something - mental illness, stress, despair, I don't know - coupled with guns led to death. There are no easy answers, and I have resisted advocating any.

I never understand why the father feels compelled to take the family, especially the kids, out with him in these situations. That aside, guns do not keep you safe all the time. In most of the mass shooting cases, many are killed before anyone who can stop it even gets a chance to realize what's happening. And then there is the story the other day in my home state of Texas that went something like this: two burglars break into a house. woman of the house, says to herself, well I'm gonna protect my two boys who are asleep (and never awoke by the way), so she gets her handgun (regular one - not a semi-auto one) and points it at burglars. One burglar says to the other burglar, "@#$%, bi$%^ got a gun." Then he proceeds to wrestle her for the gun. Woman gets shot with her own gun she was using to try and scare off the burglars. Luckily she was only shot in the leg. The burglars took off after that - and left the gun. They haven't been caught yet, and she is recovering. As noted earlier, the children slept through the whole thing.

**************************ANOTHER UNEDUCATED POST**************************

Seven2Seven- Did this Police Officer kill his family with an AR-15 assualt rifle?

First, an AR-15 is NOT an "Assault Rifle", and you don't know why. AR is the initials for Manufacturer Armalite.

Second, slapping a tag of Cadillac on a AMC Gremlin does not make your AMC Gremlin a Cadillac. Just because to you it "Looks like a Cadillac to you". The typical Appearance (Emotive Opinon) instead of Substance (Fact). Previous factor in determining a "Assault Weapon" during the previous failed "Assault Weapons Ban", a Bayonet Lug (bayonet attachment).

Third,

Too many voters embrace feel-good propaganda that they want to hear instead of learning the basic facts about issues they care about. They should do a better job of calling out dishonest politicians -- and shunning media outlets that stoke political food fights.

http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress

Fourth, in the very near future anyone that as a minor (below age of 21) that was treated for ADHD, ADD, etc., as treated for "Mental Illness" will in their future as adults (age 21 or more) will NOT be able to obtain a firearm of any kind. On their Firearms Application they must check the box that they have been previously treated for "Mental Illness".

2008 Documentary, Generation RX.

And Fifth, after watching the documentary above, go get a PDR, and read the side effects (like psychosis, mania) of those drugs used to treat ADHD, ADD, etc.. Basically, you are creating a bunch of minors (age below 21) as Columbine Murderers, Sandy Hook Murder, etc.; and future adults with the same traits as conditioned to believe their previous behavior as minors is acceptable.

Childhood ADHD Diagnoses Jump 25 Percent Over Decade

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/childhood-adhd-diagnoses-increased-25-percent-2001-2011/story?id=18277934

In other Forums we already discussed this. Almost everything requires a License or Test, except being a Parent. Parents basically drugging their children as the easy way out, instead of actual Parenting, as their children are behaving as children (hyperactivity, inattention, etc.) and not like adults.

Sixth, Vice President Biden:

“This isn’t just about guns,” Biden said on Thursday at the U.S. Conference of Mayors in Washington, D.C. “It’s about the coarsing of our culture.

“Yes, that’s what I said, the coarsening of our culture, whether it’s with video games or movies or behavior,” Biden said.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/biden-blames-violence-coarsening-our-culture

Of course this is going to be fought tooth and nail by the Trillion USDs per year "Entertainment Industry"; just as the Pharmaceuticals Corporations fight against anything that will decrease their profits.

Seventh, for all you anti "gun" nuts, pull out your gun (penis) and let me cut your gun off, no gun for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U

Jessica, nowhere in the Bible, or elsewhere, is it written that there is religious merit in being slaughtered by an insane person. Sometimes turning the other cheek is lethal. If it is my fate to die violently, then so be it, I hope to do so with an empty gun and on top of a pile of expended brass. God helps those who help themselves, not those who give up all responsibility and throw themselves upon the mercy of madmen.

somebefuddledperson,

Cite a link to your post, or it is just more emotive BULLSH!T (your LIE).

Proof you know NOTHING (making up a LIE):

somebefuddledperson - so she gets her handgun (regular one - not a semi-auto one)

ANYONE THAT KNOWS ABOUT FIREARMS IS LAUGHING THEIR ARSES OFF AT YOU.

First Semi Automatic Firearms: 1700s Revolver, 1800s Lever Action Rifle.

@ somebefuddled Well if she would have been trained, the first guy would have been dead the moment she laid eyes on him and the second one you could have followed the brown trail to find him.

Hello folks, as you can see the presstitutes MSM will duck step to the administration’s requests to highlight all aspects of abhorrent behavior and blame guns. Until we silence this administration regarding the continued violation of our Constitutional rights we will be inundated with their propaganda.

Across America, state lawmakers, governors, attorneys general, sheriffs, and other officials are promising to protect the gun rights of citizens in their jurisdictions in the face of the most aggressive assault on the Second Amendment in generations. Indeed, as the Obama administration’s unconstitutional agenda becomes increasingly transparent, backed by some Democrats and much of the presstitutes establishment media, resistance to further infringements on the right to keep and bear arms is exploding nationwide.

Gun control is illegal, and it’s against the Constitution. In a recent poll 2 out of 3 people realize that the Second Amendment was designed to protect us from the power of the federal government.

Numerous bills have already been introduced in state legislatures, for example, that would nullify unconstitutional federal gun control and even criminalize enforcement of such lawless restrictions. Texas, Wyoming, Missouri, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Iowa, and other states are considering nullification legislation in the wake of Obama’s recent push to enact gun control by executive decree and proposals sent to Congress. Other states are expected to join soon, and many have already adopted laws in recent years protecting guns made and kept within their jurisdictions from federal regulations.

Analyst say that legislation filed in Missouri by Republican state Rep. Casey Guernsey with over 60 co-sponsors, known as the Second Amendment Preservation Act, appears to be among the strongest bills at this point. If passed, it would nullify any and all federal acts, orders, laws, statutes, rules, or regulations purporting to limit or restrict access to personal firearms, accessories, and ammunition. Any federal official caught attempting to enforce such unconstitutional rules in the state would be charged with a class D felony, facing up to four years in prison upon conviction.

I think most people can see that there is an all out assault on our Constitutional Rights. Our fourth Amendment right has been eliminated by the National Defense Authorization Act. Our 2^nd Amendment is under assault.

Local sheriffs have much more power than they are given credit, and as such serve as Americans’ last, best line of defense against federal tyranny. Most sheriffs have stated that the line in the sand has been drawn and that they will not enforce any Federal Regulation that deviates from our Second Amendment Rights.

What’s next, banning our 1^st Amendment?

People need to react to the issue not overreact! Overreaction causes the fact that people who are law abiding citizens and are not criminals/unstable are being punished for crimes that they have not committed! I always thought in our Democracy that we were innocent until proven guilty, not for the simple fact that we own similar items. If that was the case we would have different laws for all of us based on the crimes of others! Sorry, no more pools people have drowned. Sorry no knives, people have been killed by them. Sorry, cars are banned because some do not know how to drive properly, and people have died as a result. Sorry, no more electricity, people have been electrocuted and died ! We do not do that because it is WRONG and it is an OVERREACTION! We need to make laws as punishments for the crimes committed, and actually ENFORCE them, no leniency, no reprieves! The other simple fact is that law enforcement are allowed to wander our streets, and they are in possession of weapons, and we give them the benefit that they are going to use them appropriately, the unfortunate fact is that they are just like the rest of humanity, and prone to the same frailties as the rest of the people in our country! They are found guilty of the very same crimes as the rest of the populace[murder, assault, burglary, etc.] This does not mean that all are criminals and that all should be penalized for the crimes of others. Should we take away the rights of the good police? No, only the the GUILTY should be punished. Our government under the guise of human rights, has allowed mentally unstable people, to make their own decisions; about their treatment, taking their meds, whether to live on the street etc.! How is someone that is classified as "currently" mentally unstable able to make a SANE decision?? Of course government will deny they have put some of us at risk of violence because they wanted to save money! Another aspect to all this, is that the anti-gun advocates will jump on an atrocity to benefit their cause, and cry that all gun owners are responsible for what happened and they must be punished, There is always going to be news when a gun is involved in an atrocity, yet the innocent are inadvertently lumped into the vile act! What kind of news does it make to hear about joe public the law abiding gun owner, who has done nothing wrong? The only time you might actually hear of a law abiding citizen in the news is if they shot someone in self defense or the defense of another, and they better hope that the perpetrator isn't killed as they will probably be vilified! News of death,crime etc., always outweighs the news of the good or unexciting! The BAD publicity takes sane people and causes them to overreact!!

Clearly there is a problem in this country, and it isn't guns. People are so ready to kill each other; men, women and children. I would call that problem. Does a gun make it easier to kill? Perhaps. However, there are many other instruments designed for the same thing, and when someone snaps everything is a weapon. Banning assault weapons... please. Those are the very least of anyone's concerns. If they are at the top of your needed fixes, you are ignorant at best. I ask that you educate yourself on what you are banning and why you want to ban it, and what the potential results of such a ban. Then compare that to the rest of the crazy crap that goes on out there. It would help your perspective.

Its not just "this country", its the world. If firearms had never been invented we would be having this discussion over swords, or clubs or even rocks.....but it would and did happen.

People becoming upset or unbalanced and killing others occured long before firearms.....

Some people refuse to acknowledge there is bad in others.....they want to live in denial and blame an object but never a person. Some people are bad, some people go bad and some can not be helped no matter what.....

Welcome to reality!!

What this shows is that weapons in the wrong hands are dangerous. This officer apparently suffering from a mental episode. Which says more about mental illness and how we treat people that suffer a mental lapse. In some states if you are reportedly having a mental attack, even without violence, you will get a police officer. For all other illnesses you are sent an ambulance. I believe that people suffer mental illness long before they exhibit their symptoms. People are afraid to get treatment for mental health issues due to the stigmatizations associated with mental illness. People lose jobs and wreck careers if they get mental treatment. And, it is near impossible to get another job or start another career. Guns were still a contributor here, but we need to fix what ails us mentally--literally.

"The sane still go there."

I'd say a person that kills his wife and son, then lights his house on fire and kills himself, is far from 'sane'.

Debora,

Good luck with that praying stuff. My opinion, it doesnt seem to work. It's just a green fuzzy warm thing to do when there is nothing else that can be done.

Jessica-1170252

Ultimately, what I continually struggle to wrap my mind around is why so many god fearing, christ loving people need guns - if they truly believe in heaven.

I would think all christians would be content with the concept that if TODAY is your time, then today is your time. Afterall, isnt heaven where all christians would rather be? Isnt GOD so awesome, that life here and now pales compared to spending ever lasting time with him in heaven?

Using this as an argument doesn't wash. Even Christians know the 'kill or be killed' factor in war, and we are at war with criminals.

So now we need to ban firearms from law enforcement? libbies...??

This whole case proves that crime will happen regardless of any kind of controls put in place, better to be able to fight back than be slaughtered without recourse.

2,740 murderers committed every day for the last 40 years and not 1 covered by MSN or the other mainstreem media! Why is this?!?

Even if the government legislates gun ownership - you can't legislate crazy away. I'm all for limiting the types of guns that the average citizen gets. I mean - do you really need an assault rifle in America? Where in the US do we have a "wild west"? In other words - I don't live in some third world country where you need a gun just to go to the market.

This country really needs to figure out what is causing these incidents because until we do that - we are in trouble. BTW - it hasn't slipped my notice that it was a male who perpetrated these violent acts AGAIN. Let's be smart here and address the fact that culturally - males are learning that it's okay to use violence, especially lethal violence, and see what we can do to stop this negative thought pattern.

Also - why do we have movies that show violence - and I mean sick violence like SAW or it's ilk. Why is there even a market for that kind of material. I don't think that sane people enjoy seeing anyone tortured even if it's just "make-believe". Maybe we are reaping the fruits of the culture of violence that we have sown.

Yeah, AVG JOE,

Lets let everyone have a gun, no background checks, and then criminals will know that they will need a full 20-round clip to do a crime.

What happens when the criminals all escalate to bazookas and flame throwers? What kind of tactical nukes to you recommend?

Why do some people insist on blaming video games and movies? Other countries have the same games and movies without the people committing as much violence as we do. Switzerland has many rifles and no standing army. I think that most of the sickos of the world just happen to live here.

David-bunchanumbers, a lever action rifle is no more semi auto than a bolt action, or a pump. Semi auto is pull trigger one bullet leaves barrel. Lever action, bolt action, pumps require manually chambering another round before the gun can be fired again.

I blame video games :( this is sad that this had happened they really should make it harder for people to get firearms, also to get their licence to carry one. ALSO upon taking the course for it have them do a BACKGROUND check and a evaluation to see if they are stable enough to carry such a mass of destruction weapon.

I blame video games so that Lawrence G. knows because little kids play non stop on grand theft auto r any other type of violent games. I think parents needs to crack down and make them kids read a book.

Guns is not the problem it's the NUT's that owns them, Hell if it was banned do you really think someone in their basement would not be making it, People have the RIGHT to be able to protect themselves period and if a Gun does the job so be it! We don't need our so called government forcing another thing on us, they sure as hell can't protect us, SH_T they can't even get along, what We have there is a bunch of clowns in suits.

Hey Mike - your quote -

"God helps those who help themselves, not those who give up all responsibility and throw themselves upon the mercy of madmen."

That's exactly what Jesus did - he threw himself upon the mercy of madmen.

I think Jessica makes an excellent point. I've never understood how a good Christian can justify owning guns. What part about "turning the other cheek" don't you understand? Christ was willing to give his life for that idea. I would think that that people who supposedly worship and obey his teachings would be willing to do the same. It's easy to ask the question - What would Jesus do? But living up to the answer isn't quite as easy.

I was thinking of opening a restaurant called What would Jesus Eat.

A couple of items on the menu:

The Virgin Mary : a vegetarian sandwich

The Donkey: The vegetarian sandwich with your choice of a meat.

Eric re- 1.9#, Mental Health screening? He was a Cop for cryin' out loud,his mental stability was reviewed all the time! If not for his own well being the well being of citizens that he may go off on in the line of duty.

I wonder why comment by @creekdog would be collapsed, as far as I can see it doesn't meet any of the complaints under the exclamation point. People that are afraid of free speech must have it closed down, because they fear something in the comments. If they closed it for being inflammatory, then any disagreement would be inflammatory. They should use ignore this author if they do not like his writings!

@jh: Even if the government legislates gun ownership - you can't legislate crazy away. I'm all for limiting the types of guns that the average citizen gets. I mean - do you really need an assault rifle in America?

Assault rifles have been banned since 1985. The bar to own a fully automatic weapon is very, very high and the price for the license is very, very expensive.

Or you can just be a criminal.

Skup, 323 murders by rifle nationwide in 2011 (1 was in NJ and look at the hype). Never mind about 1,700 by beatings.

"323 murders by rifle nationwide in 2011"...349 suicides by US Military personnel in 2012...yet the death by rifle talk gets more media attention.

Crazy, isn't it?

Okay, time to disarm the police...

time to disarm the police...

time for sensible "SCUM CONTROL" lets ban all scumbags and have a "scum buyback program" where citizens can turn in UNWANTED scumbags ,criminials &psychos ,DOUBLE PAID for crooked cops and dirty politicians !!!! TAKE THIS COUNTRY BACK FROM THE SCUM

BILL WASHINGTON,

Typical knee jerk emotive opinionated post.

First, the criminals already HAVE "full 20-round clip" (actually more) and actual full Military Assault Weapons (not Civilian looks like "Military Assault Weapons").

And why, because of President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies that resulted in the Mexican Drug Cartels, Russian Mob, Eastern European Organized Crime, etc. at the US getting FULL Military (Automatic, Selective Fire) Russian Federation or Chinese copies of Russian Federation Military "Assault Rifles" as they do not like .22 caliber Civilian AR-15s, nor unreliable US Military M-16s nor M-4s (the .223 caliber, 5.56mm originally designed as a "varmint" cartridge fired from a bolt action rifle (not semi automatic, as to why the semi automatic weapons firing the .223 caliber tend to jam (physical size of brass cartridge), as the .223 was chosen by the USAF during the Vietnam War for ease of training USAF Personnel (not US Army nor USMC Ground Combat Forces) and to wound not kill as to take more unwounded off the Battlefield to evacuate the wounded (protested during the Vietnam War as against the Geneva Convention).

In 2009 President Obama's Failed Foreign Policies as seen by the Ayatollahs of Iran as the US negotiating from a position of US Defeat. With the Result of the Ayatollahs of Iran increasing Iran's Activities against the US and US Allies Worldwide.

One of these activities was increasing the shipments of Military Russian Federation (AK, Avtomat Kalashnikova, Automatic Kalashnikova) or Chinese Military copies of Russian Federation Military weapons (Type 56), ammunition, etc. to South America (Hamas Foreign Fighters, Hezbollah, etc.);these container loads (tons) of Military weapons, ammunition, etc. smuggled by the Guatemalan Organized Crime (MS-13, MS-14, etc.) into Mexico to the Mexican Drug Lords, the Mexican Drug Lords then keep some and have the rest smuggled into the US by the Illegal Aliens as "Drug Mules" to pay for being Human Trafficked into the US by the "Coyotes", with the Illegal Alien Gangs as the Distributors and Enforcers for the Mexican Drug Cartels. Many of the Mexican Drug Cartels Illegal Alien Organized Crime have moved to the Northern US States to make more profits (less competition, less "turf wars"),like La Familia. This is similar to the Russian Mob and Eastern European Organized Crime (rivals of the Mexican Drug Cartel's Illegal Alien Gangs (Organized Crime)).

President Obama's April 2009 and August 2009 Policies, "US Military will not be used to secure US Borders".

Second, for the longest time the Mexican Government to arm their Mexican Military have had the Manufacturing Licenses to "Made In Mexico" full US Military M-16s, M-4s, M-9 (pistols), etc. (not Civilian AR-15s). Like mentioned above the Mexican Drug Cartels do not want these, if they do they take by force, buy, threatening the M-16s, M-4s, etc. from the Mexican Military.

And:

"There have been 150,000 or more Mexican soldiers defect to go work for the cartels, and I think it's safe to assume that when they defect they take their firearms with them," Keane told CBS News.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-500202_162-57337289/legal-u.s-gun-sales-to-mexico-arming-cartels/?tag=contentBody;cbsCarousel

And correction, CBSNEWS, those are actual Full Automatic (selective fire) Military M-16s, M-4s, Assault Weapons; NOT semi automatic Civilian AR-15s "looks like assault weapon".

BILL WASHINGTON - What happens when the criminals all escalate to bazookas and flame throwers? What kind of tactical nukes to you recommend?

Third, go read the CURRENT US LAWS pertaining to the ownership of bazookas (that you have no knowledge of, nor today's RPGs, AT-4s, etc.), flame throwers, "tactical nukes", and actual Military Assault Weapons (not cosmetic Civilian "Looks like").

jh-2945581 - I mean - do you really need an assault rifle in America?

Since you asked, the US States that border with Mexico, see above paragraphs, "First", "Second", etc., research article about US Border Patrol pulling away from the actual US Borders to only be at built up US Border "Checkpoints" (safer, comforts of home, etc.)(since these are fixed locations, the Illegal Aliens know the locations and avoid them); leaving the US Citizens to have to defend themselves and their families.

Before you say "Move to another State" we are talking about Ranchers, Farmers, etc. that have had these Ranches, Farms, etc. in their Family for generations. And like before, I stated do NOT compare US Law Enforcement to the US Military; as US Law Enforcement NOT paid to get killed in the Line of Duty; while Non Union paid below minimum wages US Military are expected to go into Combat, more than likely killed in the Line of Duty. This is why in most cases US Law Enforcement shows up AFTER, not during a "violent or life threatening event" (Real World motive, MONEY as State, City, Local Government Liabilities; as easier to for State, City, Local Government defend "Law Enforcement did not show up in time", than "unjust killing by Law Enforcement").

cannonballer - David-bunchanumbers, a lever action rifle is no more semi auto than a bolt action, or a pump. Semi auto is pull trigger one bullet leaves barrel. Lever action, bolt action, pumps require manually chambering another round before the gun can be fired again.

Nice try. Basic US Military Armorer stuff (History): The term "Semi Automatic" was based on the function of semi loading (Cycling of cartridge) as first from the "Self Loading" Lever Action Rifles (Marlin, Winchester); unlike the term "Full Automatic" as in Fully Loading (Cycling). Much later on the term "Full Automatic" became associated with "Machineguns" base on trigger actions (multiple rounds fired) instead of the actual Selective Fire (Safe, Single, Burst or Fully Automatic) of Fully Automatic Military Firearms.

Jessica-1170252 you obviously don't believe in the Christian God because you know nothing about Christianity. We don't just wander through life expecting God to protect us. He does watch out for us and he doesn't put anything in our way we can't overcome. But he also expects us to be participants in the process. Following your logic we should expect God to save us if we jumped off a building. But God expects us not to put ourselves in unnecessary danger. as in God helps those who help themselves. So taking precautions to keep ourselves and our family safe from those influenced by evil is what God expects from us.

I also like to think that he wouldn't mind if we sent a few evildoers to an early judgment now and then.

Now I fully expect the God hating among you to start attacking me. But hey I god God on my side. Hate away.

Vincent, Sorry you don't see the need or use for prayer. I have found that God answers prayers according to my needs. If I need is he says yes, and if I don't he says no.

trustverify: #1.27

Beginning with:

"Until we silence this administration..."

Concluding with:

"What’s next, banning our 1^st Amendment?"

With this kind of logic, we could levitate Rush Limbaugh.

Clearly cops should not have guns.

/s

Jessica, you said: "I would think all christians would be content with the concept that if TODAY is your time, then today is your time. Afterall, isnt heaven where all christians would rather be? Isnt GOD so awesome, that life here and now pales compared to spending ever lasting time with him in heaven?"

So why have any laws at all? Basically, you are saying that these scumbags are doing us a favor, so why resist. So, by your very argument, more regulation isn't required. Nice to see that we both agree on one point, even though it isn't for the same reason.

New gun laws would not have kept this crime from happening. This cop was a 20 year veteran and his wife was a retired police officer. There must have been some kind of family issue occurring. Maybe the wife decided to leave this idiot and he could not handle it. I think that they need to have mental evaluations for all police officers every year. It is a shame that this event occurred since it impacts so many innocent people. And why do these nut-jobs have to kill their spouses and children? That is the craziest part about it.

Never Stop Asking QuestionsRestored

Fortunately, guns are not a problem in this country.

----------------------------------------------------

guy, you are retarded.... violence is a problem in every country... the tool that people do the violence with? they've got plenty and they've been making weapons from scratch for 2 million years...

guns aren't the problem... humans are.... we, by nature, love killing each other... and if you start banning guns... monsters will just get them anyway

it's unbelievably naive to think anyone is going to reduce violence by stopping the sale of a small fraction of guns.

she probably asked him for a divorce or caught her cheating on him + overworked and underpayd

OK, no guns for police officers. High powered water pistols only, at least until they ban the high power ones and allow water balloons only.

I wonder if the pro gun crowd realizes that when they argue about rifles not being used in most slayings, they're essentially making the case to ban all guns.

OregonPat, shhh you jumped the gun on that one, you aren't supposed to mention banning all guns until after the next round of restrictions for law abiding citizens.

amazing! just amazing.....i cant believe a law abidig citizen would do this, it is just shocking

Yes, some folks do stupid, crazy things with guns therefore lets ban all guns

Yes, many more folks do stupid, crazy things with cars therefore lets ban all cars

Yes, more folks do stupid, crazy things with knives therefore lets ban all knives

Yes, folks do stupid, crazy things with many inanimate objects therefore lets ban ALL those objects

Then you can all sit around the fire, sing Kumbaya and feel good about yourselves.

This is just a sign of the times. The good, solid people of this country that live by an actual value-system can see the writing on the wall. Thanks to the liberals, this country is becoming a cesspool of deviance, self-loathing, entitlement and a couldn't-care-less-attitude about anyone except themselves.

Is it any wonder why people like this are self-destructing while liberals hold their gay pride parades?

BTW, for you anti-gun zealots foaming at the mouth right now, there is estimated to be approximately 3 guns for every man, woman and child in this country. Exactly how is a complete ban on guns going to help anyone at this point? Confiscation? Please! Who has the balls to go out and try taking guns away from anyone? You? I doubt it.

Plus, as soon as there's any hint that our government might go the confiscation route, every gun owner in America will call their local police station and report everything stolen.

None of you have a legitimate solution, you just like flapping your gums, as usual.

Jon, you may need to nix the fire idea. Could be dangerous. I think singing is still safe though.

must have played too many violent video games.

Luther, you haven't heard me sing.

Mickey, you are a total idiot.

Well Luther fire is rather animate but you're probably right. Ban on fire also. Maybe they could sit around one of those electronic fires. I hear it's nearly impossible to be a moth to a flame on one of those.

John Carr,

"Mickey, you are a total idiot."

A reason, please? And remember the Code of Honor. You do know what honor is, don't you?

Carryingconcealed

Is it any wonder why people like this are self-destructing while liberals hold their gay pride parades?

WTF does this have to do with the topic? What kind of AGENDA do you have anyway?

You religious wing nuts fail to realize that most of the blood shed and deaths in this world are due to religion and always have been...So stop with the self righteous BS.

We all know that Police are more so stressed than others, but for something like this to happen how tragic. I would have hoped that he would have taken advantage of the help within the PD than to go to this extreme.

peteMT:

"Many of you people are delusional, masking your desire for power and control of women with your 'morality"...

And "many of" YOU people who advocate and promote abortion for convenience and out of selfishness, desire the ultimate power and control" when you advocate taking another's right to LIVE a LIFE. That is the EPITOME of overpowering and controlling another human. And you are pridefully delusional when you think it's up to you and YOU people to control who lives and who dies, than it is for US people to respect the sanctify of every life from birth to NATURAL death. That is a choice only God can make...not you or you people. If you don't believe there is a God, then oh well...fine by me. We'll all find out sooner or later. Then you can take that up with Him and explain why you felt you had the right and power to throw a life He created, back in His face, hacked to pieces, garbage, when HE decides YOUR time is up.

I agree that there are a lot of guns out there (slightly less than 1 per person in the US according to Wikipedia). Any solution to this problem will take years, but if this nation never starts working on it, it will never happen

The solution is responsibility.

Point 1. If you own a gun, it needs to be registered. I don't care where you keep it, but I want to know that you have a, say, Glock serial number xxxxx. Where you keep it is your responsibility.

Point 2. Until that gun is reregistered to another individual, it is your responsibility. Period. If it is stolen, it is still your responsibility and you could become a before the fact accessory to any crime committed using it. A responsible owner will do their level best to make sure that their guns don't get stolen.

Point 3. If it is discovered that you are in posession of an unregistered gun, it is a felony and goes on your record. Since felons shouldn't posess any guns, that will end your gun ownership rights.

Point 4. Any registered gun that is recovered from someone other than the rightful owner will be returned to the owner after the owner pays a recovery tax. Any unregistered gun that is recovered will be immediately destroyed after any forensic evidence is recovered if necessary.

Since all new guns entering the "system" should be registered, we should be able to gradually reduce the number of guns in the hands of criminals and other unstable individuals. It will take a while, but it should work.

Y'all can over analyse this all you want. It's actually very simple.

Human beings are not perfect. We have flaws, we do stupids things, we all go crazy in our own ways sometimes. Some people take it out on the family cat, some people wig out and do terrible things like this.

You will never stop all of it. You can only hope to keep it minimized. Blaming the weapon in cases like this is absurd. You need to blame and fix the cause. The cause was the human being who did the deed.

Good luck fixing 100% of those.

MickeyS:

Your comment (2.1) was so very correct and makes the NRA's position on guns laughable.

since there was no assault rifle used how much coverage will this get?

JeanValjean,

"Your comment (2.1) was so very correct and makes the NRA's position on guns laughable."

Thank you! I just thought that since the NRA argued that the massacre of those 20 children at Newtown would never have happened if they had had armed guards posted in every school, then, by way of analogy, the same argument could be used in this case in Las Vegas. But "John Carr" thinks I'm not only an idiot, but a total idiot.

Although the gun debate here is entertaining, the story was about a tragedy that happened where an entire family died. Maybe we can all call truce for a couple of seconds and take those seconds to send condolences to the family that is left grappling with the aftermath instead.

My son is 6 years old, almost the same age as this little boy and the same age as many of those that died in Newtown. Of course guns and violence are at the forefront of everyone’s thoughts right now, but this was a child that will never see his 8^th birthday.

Some empathy and sympathy would be nice folks.

...and yet another story about a responsible gun owner.

Well surprise....surprise ! The NRA and God seems to be brought up at every shooting ! LOL !!! Now this would not have happened if citizens were not allowed to have guns. Oh wait.....never mind. This was a Police pulling the trigger this time. This subject is becoming more entertaining by the day !

Carryingconcealed

By the sounds of your post, you may be the next loser we are reading about in the news!

@ TSRL.....So say my home is broken into while I am at work and my gun is stolen. The criminal who stole it went out and shot someone. You feel that I, the rightful gun owner and law abiding citizen, should be held responsible for the crime although I had nothing to do with it ? When your property is reported stolen then that stands for record that you do not have possession of it, thus making it impossible for you to commit a crime with it. Oh and I would have to pay a "recovery tax" to get my rightful property back. Ok.....fair enough. If for say your vehicle is stolen and the criminal runs over someone and they die..... I feel you should not only go to prison for "vehicular man slaughter" but ALSO have to pay a "recovery fee" for your vehicle back when you get out of the pen. Now......see the ignorance in your statement about the "solution is responsibility" ???? Geeeshhhhh........

perhaps we should just stop reading the news, then we wouldn't know about all the death caused by guns...here's another headline from todays news!

Multiple people shot on Lone Star College campus in Texas. At least one person detained.

Tue, 22 Jan 2013 19:12:18 GMT - and of all places, TEXAS...I thought that was the breeding ground for responsible gun ownership... Phil-4041053 that was also sarcasm...see, we can help eachother!

All this crap that keeps going back and forth over guns needs to stop. We should all be intelligent to know that guns don't creaye probles bt themselves. It had already been stated that this guy was having several personal problems. The chief should have taken this man to the CDC for tests. The 15 year old boy that killed his parents and the other 3 kids in his family killed them with a 22 rifle, And if my memory serves me correctly they said the bodies were riddled with bullets. That story might take some heat off the AR-15. It shows a 22 can do just as much damage. I hope everyone of you anti-gun asses see this and understand guns don't kill people. People kill people. I will give you something to look at. Are there more people in the war overseas killed with guns,or saved by guns. Thats an example of a good guy with a gun,killing a bad guy with a gun. You had better worry about how our government is going to starve everyone to death. Then no one will need a gun.

Although the gun debate here is entertaining, the story was about a tragedy that happened where an entire family died. Maybe we can all call truce for a couple of seconds and take those seconds to send condolences to the family that is left grappling with the aftermath instead.

Oh BS I feel for this family as I feel for anyone hurt or killed. But was it not just a few days ago when all the libs and media were hyping up yet another Assault rifle killing. So since no AS was used we should all just forget about it? Where in the heck are the reports of all the inner city killings? People think cops being bad are rare, you should check out the reports of LE arrested each year for pedophila alone

Right on Bill36

You folks should rent/watch the movie Standing Army, if you have an Amazon Prime account you can watch it for free. After that you should also buy and watch the movie A Noble Lie: Oklahoma City 1995. These 2 movies will give you a good picture of where your money goes and how the gov lies to you. In fact you should also watch Waco - A New Revelation on youtube. These are not myths these movies expose some of the real truths and expose coverups

What are the similar actions of 9/11, Waco and Oklahoma City well that would be the prompt destruction of evidence before any idependent or real investigation could be done

TSRL...

a person in violation of "point two" becomes in violation of "point three"... and since they are a criminal... doesn't give a S*** or would not be in violation of any of your points... if a person is willing to steal a weapon... you think they are going to get rid of it because it's illegal to possess??

Obviously this is a bad day for this man and his family. “There but for the grace of God go I…” or any of us. His colleagues and his community are having a very difficult gut check about now. Our prayers are the most appropriate thing we can offer for them.

There’s been an awful lot of coverage of these incidents recently, especially in the wake of Aurora and Newtown mass shootings. The stats say that violent crime is actually DECREASED over the last couple of decades. It certainly doesn’t seem like it when we see something as tragic as this.

I am wondering, however, how much of this coverage occurs out of an agenda taking full advantage of the context of recent events. Part of the conversation we as a society and as a nation need to have is whether the proposed ban of “assault weapons” and large-capacity magazines would have prevented this tragedy or others. The Fort Hood Shooter used pistols and would have inflicted carnage regardless of the size of magazine used. Will more laws fix the protean ills of our society around violence? Does the amped up rhetoric point to an increasing divide between the aims of government and the people? Just as government leaders don’t want a confrontation with an armed opposition, it would seem that the President’s party wants to expunge ANY political opposition. The President’s campaign organization being made a tax-exempt 501 (c) (4), “Organizing For America” (and the SEIU and Organized Labor) advocating for the President’s policy positions sounds more-than-a-little like Germany in the 1930’s, with the Brownshirts busting windows and burning books on behalf of the Chancellor. Is this the beginnings of a new Waffen SS?

Given the shock and unreality of recent events, I sometimes wonder if we are in a nightmare-scenario movie—Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith or Mel Gibson’s “The Patriot” come to mind.

Food for thought from the Libertarian Party of Boulder Colorado (www_lpboulder_org/quotes/):

"No one can read our Constitution without concluding that the people who wrote it wanted their government severely limited; the words "no" and "not" employed in restraint of government power occur
24 times in the first seven articles of the Constitution and 22 more times in the Bill of Rights." – Edmund A. Opitz

"The government was set to protect man from criminals – and the Constitution was written to protect man from the government." – Ayn Rand

Chrisk perhaps had the media not hyper sensitized everyone to a few of these school shootings some of them would never of happened. Where is the culpability in the media for these copycat crimes? Oh that is right there is that freedom of speech thing, so much different than that freedom to own guns hugh.... NOT!

What he said...

TSLR. On your points, 1 Why do you feel you need to know what, if any guns I own? I don't care what or how many knives are in your kitchen, and knives are used to commit murder and robberies as well as guns.

Point2 Registration list work until some one decides to use those lists to disarm those the government determines are a threat to the state. Secondly, If a gun is stolen,even if from a secure lock up, and the owner is not able to report it, perhaps out of town or ill and in the hospital, how are they responsible?

Point 3 If some one is in possession of an unregistered gun, how will you find out ? Unless you want to do no knock, warrentless searches of random homes and businesses. If some criminal has an unregistered gun, do you really think they will care about an additional charge. Or perhaps they will think they have nothing to lose and just kill the cop attempting to pull them over on a minor traffic stop.

Point 4 Why should I have to pay a tax for the return of my property if it is stolen? Should we also have a tax to get your stolen laptop or wallet?

If your goal is to remove guns from the civilian population, just say so.

@OregonPat

No, we are fully aware of what we are saying. DC vs Heller has already proven that you cant explicitly ban handguns. If you cant ban handguns, and you dont ban rifles, everything works out pretty well for us.

Steve said: "You religious wing nuts fail to realize that most of the blood shed and deaths in this world are due to religion and always have been...So stop with the self righteous BS."

I understand that the cloak of self-righteousness you wear around your narrow little shoulders comforts you as you wallow in delusional self-pity, but please stop confusing a disgust for the gay lifestyle with a zealous love for religion.

I don't attend church and I don't believe in God, but somehow I still find the idea of two men banging each other in the arse as disgusting and unnatural an act as anything I've ever heard of. Now imagine that.

Kind of shoots your little theory right out of the water, huh?

jon: #2.7

What say we just cut to the chase and ban inane?

carryingconcealed:

I don't. Why not just get that nasty little thought out of your head, rather than suggest that 312 million of us adapt to your personal problem? There are many things in this life that disgust me - I've never seriously entertained the idea that the rest of the world adjust to my idiocyncrasies.

TSRL; yah voll mein fuhrer! Stampfen Sie auf allen unsere Rechte; wir können nicht vertraut werden, um für
uns selbst zu denken. Lassen Sie unseren König entscheiden, was für uns am
besten ist. If you really think that way, emigrate.

TRSL; I'd also like to point out the RIDICULOUS idea that you have put forward regarding responsibility. Basically what you are saying is that if someone breaks into my home and steals my property, it is my fault. If he should take my TV home and drop it on his spouse's (or significant other's) head, it is somehow MY fault. I am so sick of the liberal idea that the criminal is the victim and law abiding citizens should be jailed for the "lack of opportunities" afforded to these parasites. Emotional, knee-jerk, "let's all get along" arguments such as these are why our society is so screwed up in the first place. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL! I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR SELF-ESTEEM! MAN UP AND MAKE RIGHT DECISIONS OR SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES!

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

If we all had nukes to defend ourselves, this would never happen.

I'm lobbying to allow nuclear arms ownership.

The 2nd Amendment said ARMS, it did not specify - or more importantly - LIMIT - which kind of arms we can choose to PROTECT ourselves with.

I'll take NUKES - no one messes with people with nukes.

If only this cops wife and son had nukes, if only.

Jessica-1170252

If we all had nukes to defend ourselves, this would never happen.

I'm lobbying to allow nuclear arms ownership.

The 2nd Amendment said ARMS, it did not specify - or more importantly - LIMIT - which kind of arms we can choose to PROTECT ourselves with.

I'll take NUKES - no one messes with people with nukes.

If only this cops wife and son had nukes, if only.

This is the most ignorant argument ever.

That kind of firepower is already controlled, and, few if any have the resources to have them.

Go back to your little hidey hole where you can stay ignorant of the facts, or, wow, you can learn how it really is!

Jessica-1170252, yeah, you are definitely part of the problem.

@Phil

Few people have the resources for nukes because the liberals don't want you to have nukes. That's a violation of my 2nd Amendment rights! The "Founding Fathers" didn't say anything about not having nukes; they said I had a right to bear arms. I have to be prepared in case of tyranical goverments that might force me to pay taxes or integrate with minorities, and I can't have that. Nukes are arms, why do you think they call it an "arms race"? Well, we've never been safer since we got nukes... no country has bothered to attack us since we got nukes (well, execept that one time with those buildings, but that dont count) so the only way to be really safe is to allow me my God-given right to protect myself against gangs by stockpiling MX missles in my garden shed.

Ok, thats it. Take away all guns from the police! They are crazy and dont need such high powered weapons for mass shootings! Sound familiar anyone? The police were on scene and did it stop him!He was a cop and should have What makes you think by taking away the guns and any gun that any law abiding citizen so choses is going to stop a criminal or even a cop from doing harm? People, your best friend next door or across the street is your first responder and if you have any chance in the world of being saved from an intruder he or she is the only one thats going to hear the screams in time. you choose not to own a gun to protect yourself but dont also limit the chance of me saving myself or maybe even you! after the fact once the crime scene tape is gone is to late to wish you had a gun or wish your friend could help you.

Very sad and my condolances to the family and friends of those who lost there lives. Also now what are the democrats and obama going to propose a ban on police officers?

People snap. There's no such thing as 'perfectly normal.' That's all there is to it. No way to stop it. Your spouse is screwing around, bills are piling up, lawnmower won't star -whatever. All you people saying "oh, he's a cop!" - like we should stop arming cops. Don't be a moron. Plumbers, carpenters, nurses, priests, rabbis, butchers, bakers and candlestick makes ... they all snap. One minute you're watching Andy of Mayberry and the next minute you're unloading an AK in Aunt Beas head. The neighbors go "Gee. he was such a nice guy." He probably was. He just snapped. That's the way it is, always has been and always will be. Get used to it and when you hear something "snap" --- just duck.

BSTheClown, how many liberals do you think are going "Oh Snap!" right now?

Besides, from what i remember of school folks should worry about the cafeteria cook more than the cop. They tried to poison us on a daily basis.

Guys.

Jessica was being SARCASTIC.

Christ you people are thick witted.

Phil-4041053

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Jessica was being sarcastic...to show the gun lovers how ridiculus it sounds to think that you "NEED" assualt weapons, with 30 round clips...and just for the record...I have not seen or heard of ANYONE planning to take away guns from anybody. So could ya'll quit *itchin about that?

chrisk196 - I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Jessica was being sarcastic...

Go read Jessica-1170252 other posts.

chrisk196- and just for the record...I have not seen or heard of ANYONE planning to take away guns from anybody. So could ya'll quit *itchin about that??

Let's start with President Obama'sAppointed US Ambassador to the United Nations:

Democrats Oppose Obama UN Gun Control Treaty

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2011/07/26/democrats-oppose-obama-un-gun-control-treaty

Like most of everything else most Firearms are "Outsourced" and most no longer Manufactured at the US.

By the way by saying or banning ammunition magazines, the amount of ammunition a ammunition magazine can have, will ban those firearms that physically can only use those ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 cartridges. example: The US Law Enforcement's use of firearms (pistols) that use 15 round ammunition magazines.

This is like banning the sales of Gasoline and only allowing the sales of Diesel, so by doing this you effectively banned all Gasoline Engines and those vehicles using Gasoline Engines. Just like President Obama's Law requiring certain HP (Horse Power) and MPG (Miles Per Gallon) will effectively eliminate any or all V-8 Engine powered vehicles from individual ownership (including "Collector" vehicles, engines must be rendered permanently inoperative), of course President Obama snuck one by you (keep listening to what he says, not what he does/did).

Do not even start with some lame and uneducated response of "only loading 10 rounds or less into a 15 round ammunition magazine". 7 round limit below:

N.Y. governor signs nation's first gun-control bill since Newtown

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/15/us/new-york-gun-bill/index.html

Same kind of feel good propaganda as the previous D.C. Anti Gun Law, as Ruled Unconstitutional by the US Supreme Court. And during the D.C. Anti Gun Law, D.C. was awarded the "Murder Capitol of the World" (Murder by Criminals using Illegal Firearms). Later on after the Chicago Anti Gun Laws, Chicago was awarded the title of "Murder Capitol of the World" (also Murder by Criminals using Illegal Firearms (before you make an uneducated comment about the criminals stealing firearms from legal firearms owners, read post#1.53)).

Supreme Court Shoots Down D.C. Gun Ban

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-280_162-4211588.html

Still waiting for US Law Enforcement to find or figure out where Trayvon Martin got the two "40s" (.40 caliber Glocks) that he bragged about to his friends (drug clients) and had pictures posted on his facebook, in his emails, texts, etc. while scheduling his drug deals with his "friends" (previous suspension from school, later suspension for getting caught with empty bag (residue, ps. don't say "only marijuana", go research "Amp" and marijuana cured with formaldehyde effects (the guy that was completely naked and ate the face off of a person), extreme rage, extreme aggression, psychosis, paranoia, physical aggression (physical strength like PCP), etc.)).

Tests in cannibalism case: Zombie-like attacker used pot, not 'bath salts'

http://articles.cnn.com/2012-06-27/us/us_florida-cannibal-attack_1?_s=PM:US

Of course US Law Enforcement will not even bother, as Political Pressure not to investigate:

Obama: "If I had a son, he'd look like Trayvon"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-57403200-503544/obama-if-i-had-a-son-hed-look-like-trayvon/

Meanwhile (same time frame):

Newtown, Sarasota, Florida. As to why people imprison themselves in "Gated Communities" (location of Zimmerman).

US teen guilty of murdering 2 British tourists

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46885491/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/us-teen-guilty-murdering-british-tourists/

As believed Murder to be part of a Gang Initiation.

So what, President Obama is going to say, "If I had a son, he'd look like Shawn Tyson" or "If I had a son, he'd look like Rudy Eugene".

Note: The Current US Law Age Restrictions of Legal Firearms Ownership: Trayvon Martin's "Two 40s". Shawn Tyson age 16 (during the murders).

His wife was an ex-cop, chances are she owned a gun. Or do you want to arm 7-year olds too?

JM-sarcasm, Sir William of all That is Liberal and Good does not care for the Second Amendment.

Great marketing opportunity for a JuniAR-15! Okay, so it's only a .22, but you could probably do a 50-round mag with that.

JM, WOR was bullied as a kid way too many times........that's all.

Willie, your smartassm is grossly out of place because the police are the mentally certified highly trained firearms experts who should have exclusive possession of guns - by your standard. I'll give you credit for showing up though since Sailcat, Oregon Bob, and takeahikea usually skip the inconvenient stories.

WilliamOfRites

The family should have been armed.

They wouldn't have been any worse off for it.

You seem to have missed the point ; the family WAS armed.

Jessica,

Even though the 2nd Amendment didn't mention what ARMS we can have, unfortunately, it turns out that they're all "LEFTS" & "RIGHTS"

I really wonder if back in the "Caveman days" when people started getting killed to often by "clubs" if they tried to ban the club like there now doing the gun?

It will always come down to the person who has the gun and there mental state of mind. The main problem is that everyone changes over time due to a host of issues and problems and once anyone goes off the deep end all bets are off for everything we do as a society to try to protect ourselves from them.

If the at one time "normal person" loses it and grabs there gun to do someone harm then you had better have a "gun yourself" or you are going to be shot/harmed period. There is not a guarantee that having that said gun will always protect you either but its a better choice to have it than to not have one when the other person has one.

This is just simple logic at least to me. We all hope we will never need to use our gun (s) but we never know.

If the laws on the books now were followed to the letter then most if not all these issues wouldn't be issues at all but we as a country love to pass laws but then not follow them fully.

We will continue to make more new laws and rules and then not follow through with them down the road too and all it does is make things harder to even understand if at all!

Lastly, when we put someone in jail for a crime and give them a sentence we need to make sure that person does there full sentence and no early release or good behavior crap as they broke the law in the first place and were put in prison for that and to get out because they were now "good" is ridiculous! In the case of murder or harm towards children, and eye for an eye justice is needed to stop this nut jobs.

Jessica, please get a grip. There are valid points to be debated on both sides of this coin. Study up and bring your best game to these debates. You seem capable of better than repetitious rants.

New NRA motto:

If they can hold it, they can shoot it.

hey vincent i got something you can hold and it might even shoot at ya. but its not GUN.

glock23-3282286 - hey vincent i got something you can hold and it might even shoot at ya. but its not GUN.

Oh yes it is a gun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kU0XCVey_U

All the anti gun nuts, need to have their gun (penis) removed.

Before the US Military became Politically Correct, the Drill Instructors during a "Health and Welfare" had us out in the rain running in place in our underware with our rifles (luckly M-16s, not M-14s) in right hand above our heads and grabbing our "guns" in our left hands screaming the same as above. Until the Drill Instructors finished tearing up the whole barracks during the "Health and Welfare" (Raid).

glock:

"hey vincent i got something you can hold and it might even shoot at ya. but its not GUN."

This is the mentality offered by the 'pro-gun' assemblage? In some respects comforting - it appears from your posts your spend most of your time with either/both your mind/hands in your pants. Some of us seem to confuse threats with courage - probably the most transparent misconception in these posts.

You have "assault weapons"? Fully automatic weapons have not been available to the general population since 1968.

Or are you talking about an AR-15 which is a modern sporting rifle used in competition and hunting daily.

Ask why, if the AR-15 is so great for killing people, that NO ARMY in the world uses them?

Deen, Excellent point. Glad to see someone who 'gets it'.

i agree. the military does not use the AR-15. I understand that some of us get caught up in the moment and just spew crap out of our mouths. But if you are going to talk trash about weapons and rules and quite Frankly the NRA, you should really get your facts straight and maybe even hire a professional gun owner to educate you so you dont sound so retarded. I get that everyone wants to get their point across and express their belief, but wow. educate yourself before you just spew out garbage. That really goes for all of us. I am a responsible gun owner, strongly beleive in the 2nd amendment, but just listening to both sides of the forum here is disgusting. No wonder our own government cant get anything productive done. because i would bet they are just like us in the forum right now. Just watch Cspan for a minute or two youll see what i mean. What am i wasting my time for? continue to badger each other. carry on.

To all pro gun people out there let bring all your assault weapons to support your pro gun representatives during their fund raiser without telling anyone. Let see what kind of response you receive and tell us about it. I would really like to know.

@Deen,lots of police depts use the AR15 ,its commonplace for LE use, as well as gov't use and private use ,its a good gun

deen/bates: You tell us.

"educate yourself before you just spew out garbage." "...educate you so you dont sound so retarded."

"caught up, talk trash, spew crap, spew garbage,

Bushmaster claims "...its weapons are used, according to the company, by 'hundreds of police departments and law enforcement organizations nationwide, by the military of more than 50 countries worldwide.'"

Gee. Does not credibility matter to the hysterical? (rhetorical, of course)

First, Bushmaster does not produce the AR-15 which is a semi-automatic version of the M-16.

Second, if Bushmaster writes that its products are used by the military of more than 50 countries worldwide that does not mean those countries are buying a semi-automatic equivalent to the AR-15. It is entirely possible that they are producing a selective fire product for those customers. You know, one of those real assault rifles.

My thoughts exactly MNJL170, off yourself if you are that damn unhappy but leave the innocent children (and their mothers/fathers) out of the equation. I live in the Dallas/Ft Worth area and in the last month we have had several of these type of domestic violence situations, this last Saturday a man (estranged from his wife) came to his daughter's 16th bday party, killed his wife (the mother) and then went out in the front yard and killed himself. 16 year old daughter was spared but imagine what she is going through now......just can't understand it. If life makes you so unhappy you want to kill yourself that is your right just don't drag your children and/or spouse with you.

Yes whatsthis...in Grapevine. And that poor girl will probably never again want to celebrate her birthday for the rest of her life. I'm still wondering what kind of parent would come to their child's party with a weapon.

MNJL Maybe we need a locking device that is connected to the brain and the gun trigger. When the fuse blows the gun does not work.

Well, out of 315-million people here, I would expect a few to suddenly come unglued -- just by statistical chance.

We are dealing with the fringey-margins of human problems compared to the overall population. The media wallows in every occurrence to suit their leftwing causes.

90% sure we'll find out later he had a script for Prozac, Zoloft, or some other anti-depressant.

Your statement implies that the opposite is true. Please explain Switzerland and Jamaica.

Not really. I'm simply implying that more guns do not make us safer.

On the basis of?

Since 1992, violent crime and murder rates have halved. Gun ownership has increased.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/ucr

If "more guns" made us less safe, why is America getting safer?

Try this study.

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full

Did you actually read the article, or just the title?

The full article. the question is, did you?

Those persons with guns in the home were at significantly greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a suicide in the home relative to other causes of death.

...Our findings also suggest that the presence of a gun in the home increases the chance that a homicide or suicide in the home will be committed with a firearm rather than by using other means.

"The body of research to date, including the findings of this study, shows a strong association between guns in the home and risk of suicide. The findings for homicide, while showing an elevated risk, have consistently been more modest. They suggest a need for more research to better distinguish the risk and protective factors associated with guns in the home, including an examination of the risk posed by forces both internal and external to the home."

Gee, no @!$%# people with guns in their home will use them to commit suicide, if they are so inclined. And here I was, thinking that people with guns in their home would instead commit suicide with a hammer. Funny, studies like these always include suicide statistics, which should have no bearings on the "safety" argument.

Note they state the correlation with homicide is "more modest." That's their way of saying, the noise and confidence interval of the study can't distinguish if a true pattern is emerging, or if the data is statistically significantly different. They also mention something, maybe you've heard of it, it's called "defensive gun use." The NCVS estimates 100,000+ DGUs per year. Oh, and another thing, did they bother to mention anything, like perhaps individuals that purchase a gun because they're already in fear for their life and live in the slums and get murdered?

The point is, you're trying to solve a highly complex problem with a one-dimensional solution. But feel free to believe it's entirely the fault of firearms, if that's your prerogative.

Jeff,

Although I do understand your post. Read it more carefully.

All it's really saying is that, if someone wants to kill or commit suicide, they will have a higher chance of committing the crime with a firearm if one is easily available within a home. That's it.

Basically, if there isn't a firearm easily available, they'll use a knife or bat etc... and with suicide, they'll hang themselves, take an overdose etc... That's pretty much it!

Jeff, you're implying from the study that the suicides would not have occurred if the firearms were not present. There are so many ways to commit suicide, the worst that can be said about the gun is that it is "easy" (if killing oneself is "easy" in any way). The fact that a bullet to the head is a surer way to die than by, say, drug overdose or slitting one's wrists, it's a fair bet gun suicides are people determined to actually kill themselves because they're pretty sure what they're doing will result in their deaths - they are not just "acting out." Given that, in the absence of a gun, most of these people would use another method (and would probably conduct that other method in a way to make it as sure as possible). It's an unsubstantiated leap to assume that these suicides would have been prevented in the absence of firearms.

BTW, Matt referenced violent crime and the murder rate. He did not address suicide. You changed the subject. On that subject, in countries such as Japan, where there is no "gun culture," but there is a "blade" culture, people use swords and knives to kill themselves, and they do so at a rate higher than the US. In fact, Japan's suicide rate is #7 in the world and the US is #34. Take a look at the other 32 countries that have higher suicide rates than the US and tell me it's because they have "easy access" to guns. Much of Europe is on the list before the US, and virtually all the major communist countries are too. However Switzerland, which as everyone knows is crawling with firearms, ranks below the US in 42nd place. Suicide rates and firearms access are not strongly correlated. Media reports of firearms violence and suicides are out of proportion to its reportage of other types of deaths, giving the impression that there is a correlation where none exists.

Jeff, my cousin, who was Gulf war veteran, had two large handguns in his household. He chose to hang himself from a tree in his backyard rather than use a gun. So much for the gun study.

Avg Joe - it would seem to me that if a person chooses to hang themself, from a tree, they are doing more than just committing suicide. They are sending a message to their loved ones.

Think about that, he wanted to make sure that the sight of his lifeless body hanging limp from a tree was forever stamped in someones mind...

that takes a pretty horrific person through and through to make that kind of choice...

let's just be grateful your cousin chose to only emotionally hurt other people, rather than slaugther them with his legal guns.

So Jessica you are a Psychiatrist?

Never have seen a gunshot wound to the head or face, have you, Jessica?

Talk about a sight stamped in somebody's mind . . .

Of course there is a greater chance of some one committing suicide with a gun if there is a gun in the home. There is a greater chance of dieing by poison if you have it in the house as well. You also have a greater chance of getting killed in a car accident if you drive or ride in a car. If some one is desperate, or frightened enough, or angry enough, they will find a way to do what they think they must. Guns or not.

Jessica seems to be one of those self righteous types who thinks she knows everything, but actually knows very little.

Plus Jessica want's a nuke, self righteous wouldn't be the term I would use, potential terrorist is at the top, but never self righteous.

And women usually take pills or jump. Come on people, grow up. The firearm did NOT pull the trigger. If he didn't have a gun, it could have involved a method that would take out even more than his family. We're already seeing what happens when teenagers start in the explosives.

A sad situation by whatever method, and a shock to the rest of their family and to their friends.

All,

Try reading this study from a 'Liberal' American University:

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Pro-Gun or not it is worth the read...

another made up report by some liberal proffesor who thinks he is smarter than everybody else. I can make up a study too doent make it right or true.

glock: Good grief, man.

We all know that Harvard turns out people with hysterical, irrational agendas. Just read the report generated by the Harvard Injury Control Center - complete $%%^$##@!$. No....really.

They have the nerve to say " We found that guns in the home are used more often to frighten intimates than to thwart crime; other weapons are far more commonly used against intruders than are guns.

And they're so embarrassed when their research is shredded. Maybe that's why these studies are taken seriously by serious, rational people. Your research and conclusions, or theirs? Incidentally, what, exactly, is "doent"?

Jeff: The summary from the linked study you provided to support your position includes the following in its summary:

Much of the debate in the literature has focused on the risks and benefits of gun ownership in terms of lives saved versus lives harmed. Studies of defensive gun use suggest that millions of defensive gun use incidents occur each year by people to protect themselves or their property against assaults, theft, or break-ins (30, 31). However, guns are also involved in unintentional firearm shootings and domestic altercations in the home and are the primary method used in suicides in the United States (1, 32). The body of research to date, including the findings of this study, shows a strong association between guns in the home and risk of suicide. The findings for homicide, while showing an elevated risk, have consistently been more modest. They suggest a need for more research to better distinguish the risk and protective factors associated with guns in the home, including an examination of the risk posed by forces both internal and external to the home.

Some of this information has been discussed above but not the issue of the millions of times firearms are used each year in a defensive manner. Sadly, if that use ends up in the shooting death of the bad guy it may end up as contributing to the homicide statistics even though fully justified.

Nothing is clear is it?

Just ONE thing, more laws on the books are just "feel good" knee jerk reactions that accomplish NOTHING good..

IA - I agree, im hoping they'll eliminate the laws about killing other people, since clearly THOSE laws arent working...and are just "feel good" laws.

just like gun laws dont wont stop a crazy person from killing people if he wants to.

so obviously, we dont need gun laws.

only law abiding citizens follow laws anyway...the criminals dont.

lets just do away with all laws.

I think it should work out JUST FINE.

Yeah. Since these criminals and murderers are so smart and have a lot money, and they can get their hand on an assault weapon anyway, we don't need gun law to make it difficult and expensive for them to get them.

Hey Jessica, it's against the law to kill yourself too... wonder why it didn't work?

Probably a couple of things: unstable people who were already on the edge see the stories and rationalize their thinking, the media is definitely all over anything gun related to generate more clicks, and in general yes - what used to be limited to the local news is now being broadcasted nationally (see point 2)

elizabeth brooks

We are hearing MORE about them. The media has even resorted to reporting about shootings in other countries, as if they were here in north america... "Canadian shoots DR and Lawyer fine print reads in the PI."

Just part of the agenda to keep the firearm violence issue at the top of everyone's list.

Where it belongs.

And in the meantime has anybody seen the E.O. pen or know what its up to?

Where it belongs.

To what end?

Brian-1075075 - To what end?

The Obama "Agenda" (never announced during his Reelection, always deflected the questions to Presidential Candidate Romulan, as President Obama "What are your plans for ____fill in the blank______" (because President Obama did not have any solutions, reason why he wanted to discuss the US Economy with Romulan after winning Reelection).), as finishing the removal of your Constitutional Rights, what President Obama has accomplished so far:

More Taxes.

President Obama's Removal and Or Eliminations of US Citizens Constitutional Rights (including Bill of Rights and Amendments) and the Due Process of Law:

President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (Plural US Laws). Expanded Presidential Powers. US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens. Preemptive Detentions of US Citizens. Monitoring and Censorship of All US Communications. Without Warrant Mandatory Cooperation of US Communications Providers. US Military Tribunals renamed by the Obama Administration as US Military Commissions (Legal Defense no access to "classified" witnesses nor "classified" evidence used by Prosecution). (No) Support to Terrorist Organizations (No Legal Representation as "Expert Advise" per 2010 US Supreme Court Ruling, currently being fought by ACLU). Inclusion of the previously defeated as Unconstitutional US Senate S.1959 and US House of Representatives H.R.1955 aka the George Orwell 1984 Thought Crimes Laws, in that the written or witnessed verbal thought is the Felony Crime, not the Act, example: the definition from S.1959 and H.R.1955, "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist".

During a staged news media event, January 22, 2009 President Obama signs into US Laws his Patriot Acts, 04:38 minutes of 11:55 minutes:

Naomi Wolf: 'Obama can lock any US citizen up without trial'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLSeD19m3UE&feature=fvst

President Obama's 2012 NDAA, US Military Indefinite Detentions of US Citizens:

Obama Signs NDAA, ACLU Disgusted

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeuE16LLDY

Feds' electronic snooping of Americans up sharply, says ACLU

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/feds-electronic-snooping-americans-sharply-says-aclu-6170914

President Obama to circumvent US Congress,"The Will of the People", keep clicking "Next", see anything Unconstitutional, TOUGH that is what you Voted you wanted:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions

The same Demoncraptic Party that demands the killing of anyone that disagrees with them:

Union Leader Jimmy Hoffa Junior during President Obama Reelection Campaign Rally, "President Obama, this is your Army. We are ready to march. Let's take these son of b!tches out and give America back to an America where we belong."

If this sounds like the Chancellor Hitler's Brown Shirts and National Socialist German Workers Party (a Political Labor Union) or Mussolini's Blackshirts, it is, as that is what the current US Labor Unions were modelled after.

US and US Allies Loss of Strategic Resources Worldwide, required for the current US Standard of Living and Future US Alternative Energy.

US And US Allies Loss of Strategic Locations Worldwide.

US And US Allies Loss of Vital and Strategic Allies Worldwide.

Free Health Care, "That will not cost more". Result price tag of $2.1 Trillion that paid off the Insurance Corporations $67 Billion, Medical Device Corporations $23 Billion, Pharmaceuticals Corporations $20 Billion so that President Obama could get Unlimited Corporate Campaign Contributions to keep his Presidential Campaign Offices open from 2008 till his Reelection 2012, now renamed the President Obama Action Committees to push his current propaganda "Agenda" (that he never announced during his Reelection). 2008 as Candidate Obama, Presidential Candidate Hillary Clinton filed against Candidate Obama for violating US Law, McCain Feingold Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act, since he got away with that then, that is what he continues to do as receiving Billions USDs thru his Buddy "Mr. Corporate America" while being fined thousands USDs for violating US Law.

The Fiscal Cliff, the Waitress arrived with the bill for $2.1 Trillion the meal that President Obama ate, now President Obama is looking for someone else to pay.

The Debt Ceiling, the sewer backed up filling your house full of sh!t, now you are going to raise the ceiling instead of cleaning the sh!t out, you are neck deep in sh!t.

Federal Spending:

60% Entitlements

20% Defense

13% Discretionary Spending

7% Interest (Interest on Loans, like loans from the Chinese)

President Obama to pay for the $2.1 Trillion that President Obama Demanded to be spent demands Automatic Across the Board Budget Cuts as "Automatic Sequestration" to all previously Budgeted for Programs (like Medicare, etc.), Projects (like US Army Corps of Engineer Infrastructure Projects within the US, etc.), Agencies (like FEMA, Department of Education, Veteran's Affairs, etc.), including chopping the Benefits and Entitlements of the "49%" (actual 49%, update 51%).

President Obama stated in 2012, "A 10% Defense Budget Cut will result in a Million (US) Civilians becoming Unemployed", then demands a 11% Defense Budget Cut. Parts of Defense include the US Intelligence Agencies, that like during President Clinton were Gutted leaving the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading up to the 9/11 2001 Attacks, per Bipartisan US Congressional Commission (Committee) Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations with former President Clinton saying, "I'm a so sorry".

Also part to the US Defense Budget are those US Army Corps of Engineer Infrastructure Projects within the US as previously chopped by President Clinton, resulting in the US Army Corps of Engineers not having the Funds for their recommended Upgrades, Retrofits, Modifications, Building new, maintenance of the Levees of New Orleans before Hurricane Katrina, per US Congressional Katrina Hearings. The "berms" (earthen levees) built by the US Army Corps of Engineers at New Jersey saved many homes from being flooded or washed away during Hurricane Sandy.

President Obama as Commander In Chief Orders the Reduction In Forces of the US Military by 50%. Secretary of Defense Gates, and later Secretary of Defense Penetta tender their Letters of Resignation. US Military Capability chopped from capable of Two Sustained Wars Simultaneously to One War only.

Yep, keep "winning" BigBadBob-2560784, welcome to President Obama's United Somalia of America. As President Obama's "Level the Playing Field" by bring the US down to the lowest common denominator instead of the difficult raising others to the higher US Standard of Living.

Before you start the typical name calling, do the research into the above, as:

Too many voters embrace feel-good propaganda that they want to hear instead of learning the basic facts about issues they care about. They should do a better job of calling out dishonest politicians -- and shunning media outlets that stoke political food fights.

http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress

David makes some very good points. Its too bad this has come down to an anit or pro argument. The real fight is our consitutional rights and the fools elected to preserve protect and defend it. The feds are making it impossible to live in a free state. And most of you just gobble up the propaganda spewed on the nightly news. Sad to say in todays politics it really dont matter who you vote for as the power that be are all behind the scenes with an unlimted budget. There is nothing safe about living free and feeling safe is not being free. At some point we will all have to decided what we are willing to give in order to truly live free.

Elizabeth- The media virtually belongs to Obama and is just a liberal tool at this time. They will report any death or any act of violence involving a firearm that occurs in any large or small community in the US. There has always been a lot of violence in this country but now there is an agenda that must be supported. Why is it that we do not hear about disarming the gangs that exist all over this country? It seems that the liberals just want to take firearms away from people who obey the law but gang bangers are ok.

If you are the victim of a home invasion, do you think the criminals are going to wait until the police arrive? Does anyone think that criminals will attempt fewer crimes if the general populace is unarmed? Criminals will ALWAYS have firearms. They are criminals. The only chance that you have of staying alive or preventing someone from taking your car, is if you can protect yourself. If a criminal is positive that you are unarmed, he or she can take anything they want from you at anytime, including your life.

Big Mike-1714929,

Previously when US Congress attempted to "slip their dicks into everyone's rears" a bunch of us (my minimal participation, due to my job) protested on the internet, social media, youtube, emails to US Congress, emails to US President, new media, etc. against the US Senate S.1959 and US House of Reprentatives H.R.1955.

example: youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Op3x154z2I

After the US Courts Ruled the US Senate S.1959 and US House of Reprentatives H.R.1955 US Laws Unconstitutional we thought they (US Congress both Houses) would not attempt this again.

Then we heard from the then Speaker of the House of Representatives, as the Speaker for all Democrats, Nancy Pelosi state, "Anyone returning from the Wars is a potential Homegrown Domestic Terrorist" as against "Innocent Until Proven Guilty".

Upon further research of what Nancy Pelosi said some of us found out about President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts, inclusion of US Senate S.1959 and US House of Representatives H.R.1955 as including the definition "Anyone stating a radical change to (US) Government is a Homegrown Domestic Terrorist". This then made us research the rest of President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (Plural US Laws).

One of the biggest things of my concern was pertaining to the US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens. As unlike the US Military of the 1990s Poll of the US Military, the majority of US Military Personnel would NOT Obey the Order for the Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens. President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts as tied to the Revised US Insurrection Act, the Contigency Plans of US NORTHCOM, etc. indicates the Hierarchy of Authority of Who Summarily Executes Whom as "Traitors", "Treason" for disobeying the Order of the Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens by Presidential Executive Order (no need for US Congressional Approval as "Expanded Presidential Powers" from President Obama's Patriot Acts). We also know that even after our being Summarily Executed for disobeying that Order for the Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens, our families, relatives, friends, etc. will be preemptively detained indefinitely subject to "extraordinary interrogations" as suspected co-conspirators to our "Treason". This is why when many people say (from being uneducated about the current situation) that the US Military will be on the side of the People if the US Government becomes a Dictatorship, Totalitarian, etc.; sorry not going to happen, as those US Military will be the first to be Summarily Executed. Also stated is the use of a State's National Guard never within their own State; but, at another State* to prevent "conflicts of interest" as a State's National Guard, Ordered Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens.

*Screening of State's National Guard Members, for no ties to that other State. Starting with Official Military Personnel Records, Security Clearance Applications (listing of all previous Residence Addresses), Security Clearance Background Checks (lists of Family, Relatives, Friends), etc..

President Bush (43) set the Historical (Legal) predence after Hurricane Katrina; but, President Obama made it US Laws with his Patriot Acts; as after Hurricane Katrina the US Law Enforcement that did not evacuate were those looting to feed and take care of their families; so President Bush (43) had other States National Guard deployed to New Orleans as most of the State's National Guard for New Orleans had previously evacuated to Texas prior to Hurricane Katrina. When those other States National Guard refused to Use Deadly Force Against US Citizens to Enforce the Law, President Bush (43) sent in Security Contractors to Enforce the Law. It later became DOD Policy for States National Guard to be Activated to Active Federal Military Duty routinely to deploy to Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.* (as not what most "Weekend Warriors", State's National Guard members, signed up for). The Case of Hurricane Katrina became part of the model for the Hierarchy for Summary Executions of President Obama's January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts.

*National Guard on Active Duty, US Army Special Forces, Lieutenant Colonel A. Wood, at US AFRICOM, Benghazi, Libya, February.

Good questions. But they're probably rhetorical because I'm sure you realize there's a double standard - one for government officials in general (including police) and another for the rest of us.

They would like to take this two-tiered approach to society to another level - their level with guns, and ours without.

This type of "sealing of records" from the public is just one of many stepping stones being used to pave the road to the "New America". "Old Glory"......we sure will miss ya !

Well, its harder to take out the family if you take yourself out first.

Just sayin'.

Jeff,

The fact of the matter is, only if you're an A-hole....

http:://creekdogjournalswww.aholeandgunsdontmix.com

That's really amazing Jeff.

I find it very difficult to type a question in my Google Bar and scroll through the hundreds of possibilities.

it's obviously harder for you than tossing around insults

LOL...That was a good one.

My first post was not directed at you. It was directed at A-holes who are cleaning their gun "forgetting" it's loaded and Bam......... you know. And nothing to do with you. Kinda towards your "attached"

My second one was directed at your "insult" as to "troll harder." Then you come back with #13.4 insult.

So, looks like you're up on insults towards me 2 to 1. No pun, just havin' fun...

Take care...

Jeff -

You deflected nicely above. You still didn't answer the question. FBI/DOJ statistics show that violent crime is the lowest since 1963 while the number of guns and gunowners has increased significantly.

Australia all but bans firearms and their violent crime rate increases 29% (rape 42%).

How do you explain these correlations?

I copy that rockin'.

If I had to guess, I'd would think that this guy wanted to kill his wife and himself then also figured that the kid wouldn't have a normal life without parents and would probably be bullied for years by punk ass kids busting his balls about his father killing his mother and himself.

Just my guess though.

Keeping a gun in your home may increase your chances of a violent death, but that does not preclude the possibility that some of these deaths (such as the determined suicide) would have happened without the presence of a gun. Also, in some case, you'd still have a violent death, but it would be someone else dying. For instance, a woman who kills an abusive husband with a gun might be the person who ends up dead of violence had the gun not been present. Also, the "fact" you referenced doesn't take into account the 1.5 million annual defensive uses of firearms (Clinton Justice Department study) that happen annually. Most of these uses don't involve the actual firing of a gun, the mere display of a firearm is often enough to deter a criminal. If you take guns away from people, they will not be available for these 1.5 million defensive uses. So if only a very small percentage of these incidents shift from being successful defensive acts to successful criminal assaults and murders, our rates of violent crime and murder could easily double or triple. (Do the math. There were fewer than 10,000 firearms murders in the county last year, a minuscule percentage of 1.5 million.) The law of unintended consequences will bite you in the ass. Remove guns to prevent suicides and you not only won't necessarily prevent suicides, but you'll make victims of 1.5 million crime targets and make them more vulnerable to serious injury and death.

If you accept that there are 80 million gun owners in this country (a figure I derived from the high end of a conservative estimate - I've seen estimates that are as high as 147 million) and assume that all firearms murders are committed by a different criminal (i.e., 10,000 murders committed by 10,000 criminals), and if you presume the murderers are counted within the 80 million gun owners, then the percentage of gun owners who commit murders annually is 0.0125%. That's a little more than one percent of one percent. This number is so astonishingly small, that a statistician would call it "statistically insignificant," and would conclude that 100% of firearms owners present ZERO threat to the public. Yet people are calling for legislation that will affect ALL Americans (and it will affect Americans who don't own firearms because violent crime rates will go up as firearms become less accessible to the public - criminals will perceive everyone as more vulnerable) in response to crimes being committed by a relative thimble-full of people, all based on the flawed presumption that restricting firearms will result in safer communities (a proposition that has not only not been proven, but has been falsified in many countries). The country, or at least a significant portion of it, has gone mad.

Dave,

A survey in 2007 said there are about 875 million known guns in the world and USA owns 270 million of them.

In the USA, 90 people per 100 own a gun.

Also, great post dude.

Percentages dont matter to multiple victims of gun crimes. You can have .01 percent of people go crazy and kill much more than their percentage equates. The problem is that we seem unable or unwilling to find that .01 percent to weed them out of the gun owner pool. Our government has to fight everyones hard feelings on the matter so much so that our government feels it would be easier to just do sweeping reform to gun laws. Its lazy in my opinion but I think that is how a government so far in debt and economically bankrupt will handle the situation.

Without the gun , it would be much more violent, painful , bloody mess, with a knife or some other killing object.When someone loses there mind it really don't matter whats in the house.Too bad the wife couldn't get to her gun first.

Colo. Chris,

"Too bad the wife couldn't get to her gun first."

Yeah! Then they could have had a good, old fashioned show down! Who's the fastest draw?

Mickey..

Maybe the child would have been save....Quote: "If we can just save just one life"

Guns will save more life then bans...

Colo. Chris,

I'm not arguing with you. I just thought the situation you suggested was an interesting one.

Jeff: For someone who takes pride in citing a study you do a very good job of cherry picking tidbits out of ths study rather than looking at the entire product. Here, again, is the summary of that study:

Much of the debate in the literature has focused on the risks and benefits of gun ownership in terms of lives saved versus lives harmed. Studies of defensive gun use suggest that millions of defensive gun use incidents occur each year by people to protect themselves or their property against assaults, theft, or break-ins (30, 31). However, guns are also involved in unintentional firearm shootings and domestic altercations in the home and are the primary method used in suicides in the United States (1, 32). The body of research to date, including the findings of this study, shows a strong association between guns in the home and risk of suicide. The findings for homicide, while showing an elevated risk, have consistently been more modest. They suggest a need for more research to better distinguish the risk and protective factors associated with guns in the home, including an examination of the risk posed by forces both internal and external to the home.

Notice the emphasis on suicide and the statement that homicide, while showing an elevated risk, have consistently been more modest?

The authors then recognize the defensive aspects of gun ownership and suggest further research is need ed to evaluate what I read as being the risk/benefit.

"John Smith or Jones".......one of my sons-in-law is a detective....there is not a better person on this earth !

Down_South

So you are screaming not to do away with the second amendment, but you are fine with doing away with the first amendment?

First Amendment

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

So you are screaming not to do away with the second amendment, but you are fine with doing away with the first amendment?

Sure, why not? After all, the inverse is shrillingly shouted on the Vine all the time! Besides, this it Internet news, and the founders could never have considered the Internet when they wrote the 1st Amendment. The Press should be limited to printing handbills on movable block presses!

@starbuck - you realize that the Journal News list has already caused one burglary of a residence listed on their legal gun owner website, don't you? The liberal media keeps calling for responible gun ownership yet practices unresponsible reporting and publishing. In fact, they resorted to having armed guards posted in front of their building after the backlash. They aided and abetted a crime with their actions. They should not be given a "stay out of jail free card" anymore than a criminal using a gun would be given one.

If you can restrict freedom of the press, you can also restrict the right to bear arms. You can't have it both ways, restrict one but not the other.

starbuck, are you afraid of "responsible reporting laws" ?

You can't have it both ways, restrict one but not the other.

EXACTLY! That's why so many gun laws are so onerous.

Its funny how a shooting that takes an innocent life with be plastered all over the internet and news channels, yet you have to go digging for the articles that cover stories of home owners using their guns to protect their family and property and even good samaritans who protect individuals in public places (ex: movie theater in San Antonio last month). If we are going to be informed about one of them.....why not inform us about all of them ? Just saying.....

What is even funnier is the majority of stories reported mention the word assault weapon or military type weapon, even if a knife was used. One shooting will get played up, but a kid drowning in there neighbors uncovered, unlocked pool doesn't get past the local morning fluff news show.

@vanessa: No sympathy for his family? For the friends of his wife, child, even the shooter? The people left behind wondering "why?" and whether or not they might have done something to prevent it?

Living with all that bitterness and hate has to be tiring after a while...

Interseting wording you use there: "never convicted of a felony"

I am sure your attitude helps in your interaction with all sorts of people . . .

matt and the troll mpa We all have bitterness towards the "law enforcement agencies", they are abusive and push the innocent people around that they should be protecting. Instead of feeling comfortable when they are around people tense up. Is that protecting and serving.?The SS Gustafo also thought they were doing the right thing for hitler. Who pays their salary anyway...oh that's right we do the people they love to harass.

Aminorityorarewe,

1. we all DO NOT have bitterness towards the law enforcement agencies. they are people just like us, however they are also people who put their lives on the line every day so that the rest of us can be more secure.

2. there is and never was any such thing as the "SS Gustafo". there was the waffen ss which controlled the "gestapo" pronounced:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/De-Gestapo.ogg the ss began life as the security state police under himler and evolved over the years to other meanings.

the ss were basically, our version of internal affairs on steroids; eg, raise an eyebrow at the wrong time and you wound up on a hit list.

at some point the waffen (vafen) ss became a branch of the wehrmacht (vermacht). the wehrmacht officers were originally of the era of nobility and chivalry. obviously, not all together pure nazis. originally the waffen ss were placed among the ranks not as strategist, but as spies. but when you remove all the strategists, what is left to perform strategy ?

now what is really interesting, especially considering significant percentage of leading officers of the standing army (wehrmacht), what cool-aid did germany as a whole gulp down to find themselves in this position in the first place ?

im not saying we are necessarily on the edge of stepping off into this scenario right here and now. on the flip side, history concerning the actions of some vs the constitution, show a clear pattern of heading in that direction.

i know, i know, i know, based on passed replies with regard to conveying truths and history, to pro gun advocates conveying history and reality, many replies directed to me will be to the effect of "blah, blah, blah", "you suck", , you're an idiot" and and various comments about male gentalia.

whatever....

I gave you an up, new. But only because of the statement about the child. The rest of your post is a diatribe. I find it to be right but no shouting should have been used, no one cares. And I do agree with your post about divorce. I love my second wife because she's the mother of my son. But I just cannot for the life of me stand the bitch. In other words, love was there but not like. And falling out of like is a terrible thing for any marriage.

The officer might have witnessed a particularly bad casde of domestic violence and snapped if his wife bitched at him for something. Yet if he was hellbent on killing himself, he didn't need to take out either his wife or child. And he did both.

As for news, with information available now at the speed of whatever modem a person uses, it's no wonder that somethig hits whatever wire nearly immediately. It would have to be prewritten to hit simultaneously. And that would be truely terrible.

DIVORCE?!?! That would only incur un-necessary paper work because...He would still end up killing her & the kids!!! Note: The father that did just that on his kids 16th b-day!!!

OMG can you people really be so out of touch with reality? get a divorce if things are so bad? really is that the real deal? i think i understand this Guy! getting a divorce leads to a slow torturous death dealing with the other so called better half (male or female) this guy was a problem solver! the problem is OVER for all involved! really though it is a shame that the child had to go with the fools! but i would bet the child went FIRST you know to show her real pain and real understanding or something like that??? and please stop and think what is DRIVING that kind of action, could it be that the divorce laws support the witches and not the bastards ....... wanna change some laws start forcing divorced couples to realistically care for the children, OH AND I AM NOT A EMBITTERED DIVORCED MAN i simply try to look down both the avenues and the streets.

Divorce is typically so unfair to the men. Huge alimony and child support that puts them in a situation were they cannot even afford to live. It is unjust and I would say is largly responsible for these results. There life is over anyway because they give the women everything. Horrible case in WI. Father killed his three daughters. He was ordered to pay like 3000 per month in child support plus make the house payment. The guy was a construction worker. What construction guy could possibly survive that. There is no justification for what he did. But there needs to be some justice. With out justice, there is only despair that eats people up and they do things that they would not normally do. Some one should take a look at some of these domestic violence cases and see what the judge ordered. Just getting a divorce and losing everything you have worked your whole life for may not be such an easy option to face.

yes, the anti-gunners are in some weird imaginary and delusional trap of hysteria. they have time and again been advocates of violence and harm towards anyone with an opinion that differs from theirs. i agree strict gun control is necessary to make sure these individuals never posses guns.