Can you recall any juvenile mass shootings that didn't involve the kid playing violent video games??

It is not the games but the parents. Kids who get violent from games either have mental health issues or were never taught the difference between fantasy and reality, or at least not in a correct way. There is no link between violence in real life and violence in virtual reality except for coincidences. There is almost always a mental component to these types of stories as the mentally ill (I consider those that cannot tell the difference between fantasy and reality mentally ill by the way) are the ones who get set off by violent media.

What really caused this was the fact that the guns were obviously incorrectly stored alongside the ammo and not in a locked safe or cabinet. No access to those weapons, the harder it would have been for him to kill his victims.

A 15 yr old boy who likes violent movies?! The shock! In other news, ice cream is cold. Get a real story NBC.

You can keep three year-olds away from guns but a determined teen is going to get what he wants when he wants - in spite of Schwarzenegger's vision of fatherhood and good clean fun.

Steven B, you're kidding, right? Can you recall any kid playing violent video games who did not kill anyone? Fascination with the criminal lifestyle, lack of discipline and limits, drugs and alcohol use, gang involvement, and mentall illness are much better indicators of future violence than is a now-common activity like playing video games. Obsession with violent games and porn - yes. Merely playing them? Come on.

You should read the warning signs as listed by Phil Chalmers, who has interviewed hundreds of junvenile offenders: "Top 10 Causes of Teen Murder and School Shootings." It is available online.

Penn and Teller debunked the "violent video game" boogeyman in their Bullsh*t series on HBO.

Steven, can you provide any evidence that shows that it was a contributing factor?

"Video game popularity and real-world youth violence have been moving in opposite directions. Violent juvenile crime in the United States reached a peak in 1993 and has been declining ever since. School violence has also gone down. The U.S. Secret Service intensely studied each of the 37 non-gang and non-drug-related school shootings and stabbings that were considered "targeted attacks" that took place nationally from 1974 through 2000.

The Secret Service found that there was no accurate profile. Only one in eight school shooters showed any interest in violent video games; only one in four liked violent movies."

...from an article on thestar.com called "Violence and Video Games", since I can't post links here.

And from the University of Florida's Scholar Commons "The Effects of Violent Video Games on Aggressive Behavior and the Relationship to School Shootings", one of the most cited anti-video game studies around, you get this:

A wide variety of other factors are more important antecedents of aggression than violent video games, including child abuse and neglect, victimization, bullying, drug and alcohol abuse, exposure to violence in the home, neurobiological indicators, low socioeconomic status, and access to guns.

It might also be worth pointing out that Lee Malvo's like of Halo was trotted out similarly to this story, but when it came time to go to court it was shown that he wasn't practicing in Halo (an odd idea anyway) but on paper plates made to represent human heads.

Another point worth consideration is that it's 2013 and it'd be stranger to find a teenager who didn't play video games than finding one who enjoyed them, making it statistically probable that anyone from that age group who commits a crime has some interest in video games. Just because there's a correlation there it gives no evidence that their playing of the games caused their criminal activity.

guns dont kill people remember, so no way in hell do video games and movies kill people either!

What no one mentions is that the 2 games that were brought up are rated for adults, which means no one under the age of 18 can buy these games, so a parent bought them for him, or a straw buyer was used.

It is so easy to blame the parents. It is so easy to throw all the blame on the fact that guns were available. Explain this then - why, in the era BEFORE video games...BEFORE movies got so violent and bloody..when the thought of locking up your guns and ammunition was an alien concept - why did we not have this sort of crime. Of course, there was the odd mass killing - but that was extremely rare. Children did not kill their families. Children did not shoot their classmates. Children could go to school and feel safe and didn't need armed guards. Killers are killers and they will use what is available. Semi-automatic rifles have been around for decades. WHY NOW? Give me a rational answer for that and perhaps we can have a discussion.

What can you say the kid is a nut job thank goodness all our kids are not this way...I still don't believe we should disarm the nation because this kid was a mental retard who just wanted to kill..And people who play shoot em up video games are not killers I myself like to play them and I am a very non violent person and the games do not make me want to go out and kill someone ..you have to have that in you to be a killer its not the game. Time to blame the individual for his or her actions and stop blaming inanimate objects like guns or video games or rock music or anything else except the fact that some are just born cold blooded killers and for that very reason we need our guns to protect us from these evil bastards. So Senator Feinstien can kiss my grits..if she is so brave then why don't she fire her armed body guards who also carry guns. What a hypocrite the anti gun nuts are.

I love ultra 'violent' video games. I mean LOVE these type of games. Growing up, like so many other kids around me, we saw drive by shoots, stabbings, domestic violence, you name it we saw it. Just to be clear, Ive never harmed a living soul. Well, maybe got into a fight with my brother, but who hasn't. This sort of crap of...putting of blame from the source. Its everyone else fault.

steven, can you recall any mass shootings that didn't involve guns? kids have always played games where they pretend to kill each other, cowboys and indians, war, and so on. oh and guess what, a violent kid is going to play violent games the same as someone who wants to be a race car driver is going to play racing games or a dancer will play dance dance revolution. if games were the cause we would have hundreds of these MASS murders every day cause call of duty black ops 2 sold 4.1 million copies in the US the very first day it was available.

lorielle, there were mass murders going back to the early 1900's in the US so stop blaming violent movies and games.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers:_Americas

Lorielle,

because guns were not as wide spread as they are now and people used to have a modicum of respect for each other. In the same way you used to be able to leave your doors unlocked without fear of burglary. That is no longer the case, people do not respect other people's property. It is the same with guns. Guns used to be respected by all for the tools of war that they are and gun ownership was very restricted.

Guns have been elevated, in this country especially, to a level of deism that they do not deserve. They are not tools for freedom. They are not tools for self-defense. They are tools for killing, be it animals in hunting or other humans in war and self-defense. Until people properly respect the cold pieces of death they own and lock them away in gun safes or other unbreakable objects the ease of access to weapons will allow these kinds of crimes to continue happen.

This ended up on the second page, but I'll put it here for people to read:

Part of the problem with video games and kids having access to them is the parents fault. All games are rated by the ESRB Rating System and many parents purchase these violent games for their kids thinking that it's okay, when many kids have a hard time understanding that what they are seeing is not reality and should not be considered as such. Grand Theft Auto, Halo, Call of Duty, and other games are rated for mature audiences, not kids and teens. It's the parents responsibility to make sure their kids are getting games that are meant for their age, regardless if it's popular or not. I know GameStop and BestBuy have resulted to checking for ID when games are purchased with an M rating for Mature, but that alone doesn't stop kids getting their hands on these games if parents are not doing what they are suppose to be doing. PARENTING. If you don't want kids having these games, start putting pressure on the parents in doing their job.

You are in denial. Oh, the powers of suggestion.

There's an estimated 300 million First Person Shooter video game players, and with this event, that pushes the total who are murderers up to .0000000000000000000167%. I'm still not seeing a correlation.

That being said, if your kid loves those games and then gets a sudden interest in weapons and camo clothing shortly afterwards, maybe there is something to worry about. When I went through High School, literally everyone was playing the first Modern Warfare game, there's even more players now, so this is almost like saying there's a correlation between getting in a car accident and having a couch in your living room. The majority of people do anyways.

omfg, violent video games had nothing, I repeat, NOTHING to do with this massacre.

Here's a newsflash, people that are prone to violent behavior will be drawn to violent games and movies. Violent games and movies DO NOT make people prone to violent behavior.

Correlation != Causation.

Seriously people, stop it!

TrustandnvrVerify, please stop repeating the nonsense that is fed to you by the media and the NRA, the majority of us don't want to hear those lies that you and your club spew over and over all day.

Please tell me what exactly is being done to take away your 2nd amendment rights? and not some BS of they are commin to take ar guns! show me a link or some government law in the works that will do away with your 2nd. You cant cause you like everyone else knows it will never happen. Now is there much needed laws being discussed (not actually implemented yet, and frankly never will be), yes. But regulating your 2nd as our other amendments are regulated as well is not the same as ending your 2nd amedment right!

You brought up the NDAA, that one right there is the real example of tyrany along with the patriot act. But yet not a peep from you or your ilk, you guys cry and bitch about something that isnt happening with your 2nd while you sit by and cheer on the real trampling of our rights, all in the name of a false sense of security (funny you claim the libys want to take away your right to bare wmds all for some false sense of security while you do the same).

I don't give a crap what they want to blame it on. I also don't care how old he is. This person does not deserve to be alive. Period!

Are you guys serious ... he was home schooled by Evangelical Christians. Have you read the Bible lately?

Call me nuts, but I'm pretty sure there's no video game where you're able to commit mass genocide and beat slaves with an iron rod so easily as is written in the pages of that "holy" book.

Shhhhhh .... let's just ignore that violence though ... less our superstitions be insulted.

Guns are children's worst enemies: More deadly than disease.

In 2010 there were 6,570 gun-related deaths of children, 18 children per day every day, a small classroom of innocents. This is 15 times the death rate from infections and twice the death rate from cancer. Children of color constitute 63 percent of these gun death victims.

As a nation, we have invested billions in research and developed weapons to target specific cells based on a child's individual genes to prevent and treat infections and cancer. Not so for guns and kids.

Read the entire article:

http://www.philly.com/philly/entertainment/20130121_Guns_are_children_s_worst_enemies.html

I have posted this 20 times. The violent video games with the young killers is 80% of the problem. They practice over and over and get desensitized to where a real life killing does not seem real. There is no reset button when real blood is flowing.

The violent videos are as much or more to blame and this kid admitted it........

WOW, so boy fends off a kidnapping rapist threatening murder with a knife, Messnbc is silent. Crazy kids kills parents says he loves violent video games and as that fits with the political propaganda narrative we hear all about it.

The media is to blame, Hype hype, propaganda, propaganda........ everybody knows good stories do not get reported, you want to make the news, off a few people, the media will harp on it for weeks..

"Can you recall any juvenile mass shootings that didn't involve the kid playing violent video games??"

There are a lot of juvenile's that play violent video games that do not commit mass shootings... Besides, there were mass shootings before there were violent video games.

In related news - 100% of heroin addicts drank water as children, therefore there is an indisputable link between hydration and heroin addiction.

TrustVerify, you can't legally own a surface-to-air missile; they done already took your "2nd Amendment right" and you didn't even know it. The question is: how will you respond?

Ban hammers and knives!

They practice over and over and get desensitized to where a real life killing does not seem real.

{facepalm}

Dude ... really?

If someone can't distinguish between killing little pixels on a television screen and shooting their mother and young sisters in the face .... video games ARE THE LEAST of their problems.

What video games did Hitler play .... Manson, Bundy, Dahmer.....?

Dude Chad, read the article. He loved violent video games, they blood, torture and guts. This one came out and said it, WTF do you want?

After the comment I made, I would also like to add that I do agree with many people here in regards to video games. They are not solely responsible for this. Just like any teenager, the kid enjoyed video games, regardless of the nature of the games he played. Even if the kid never played a video game in his life but enjoyed violent movies or tv shows, then the media would use that to focus on instead. You are always going to have an individual who goes on a shooting spree be attracted to something that helps fills their need for violence for a time until they snap and live it out in reality. That's part of what a mental illness causes. People who keep to themselves, not very social, has a troubled past or home life tend to be the types of people who end up hurting others when their fantasies are no longer being satisfied by a harmless outlet. There are several factors that play into cases like this where you end up having a tragic end. But people really need to start being on the look out for the classic signs that someone may need to speak to a counselor or psychologist because they are isolating themselves more or are becoming steadily violent in their lives by acting out.

And for the record I am someone who enjoys video games. I play Halo, a first shooter game for those who don't know. I have played several video games that are for mature audiences. I don't have the tendency to want to replicate what I play in the world of reality.

"I have posted this 20 times." -IXLR8

Really, and it is still not true? That's hard to believe, 'cause the more you post something, the more true it becomes.

"There is no reset button when real blood is flowing." -IXLR8

There is now, I just patented it.

"The violent videos are as much or more to blame and this kid admitted it........" -IXLR8

I'm sorry, where did he admit that? He got excited talking about "Modern Warfare" and "Grand Theft Auto" which is pretty rare for a 15-year old.

Anyone that plays these same games online knows that there are players constantly on from all parts of the world, including the UK. The ones I have on my friends list play even longer than the Americans. Yet, find me a story of mass gun murder by a teen in the UK. Why?

Lorielle,

Geo and Hatr gave you 2 very good opinions/answers to your question.

I'll give you another, In my opinion a lot of this can be put back one the parents, don't get me wrong in the end it is the person that committed the act that is to blame, but there are other things that nudge them along their path. Due to being carded now in order to buy violent games if your child is being desensitized by bloody games it is the parents fault for buying and allowing their kid to play these games. When i was younger i knew that if i didn't act the way i was supposed to i would get a good spanking from my father, if i disrespected an elder (whether they were family or not), if i cursed in front of my parents or another adult, if i wore my cap backwards or sagged my pants, if i did not listen and get things i needed to get done completed, all these things were offenses that resulted in my ass being tender.

It was not the fear of jail or the cops that kept me straight, it was not the fear of god (though i was raised with ideals and morals of the bible) that kept me good, it was not any ambitions of my future that propelled me along my path. No it was 2 hardworking parents that loved me enough to discipline me, and not try to be my friends!!

Dude IXLR, read my comments. I love violent movies and psychological thrillers. Does that make me crazy?

I'm not a gamer because I think it's a huge waste of time, but the point is, I'm probably the most passive person I know. I love animals, love life ... couldn't hurt a fly (let alone a person). Yet, my favorite movie is Se7en, a violent movie about a serial killer. I think it's creative and suspenseful. But most of all, I think it's ENTERTAINMENT.

People that are susceptible to violence, YUP, they're probably going to gravitate to violent video games and movies. But, that doesn't take away from the fact that they are @#$%&@# crazy. It also doesn't take away from the fact that there are millions of people all over the world that enjoy fictional violence simply for the sake of entertainment (and couldn't dream of hurting anyone).

Blaming movies and video games for this violence is just the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Sorry.

ixlr8, you are a liar plain and simple. nowhere in the article does the kid say the games were to blame. quote it or look like the fool you are.

now, just for the hell of it let's say he did say that. wow, a kid blaming something other than himself for what he did! now there's a real shocker, a person not owning up to what they've done.

I used to live in south Bernalillo County, just southwest of Albuquerque. I went to school there from K-4th grade. The pervasive culture of violence in that area is nothing new. I had to walk a few miles to school because white kids got stabbed on the bus. There were shootings almost every weekend. Nobody bothers to turn their heads when they hear sirens or helicopters. This was 30 years ago, and from what I can tell when I go back to visit the friends I still have there, thing have actually gotten BETTER since then. Video games are not the problem.

Explain how your comment:

IXLR8

The violent videos are as much or more to blame and this kid admitted it........

Is equivelant to the kid "admitting" it by him sharing the following:

Nehemiah Griego did not elaborate on a motive for the shocking crime, but he had plenty to say about his love for video games, including "Modern Warfare" and "Grand Theft Auto," authorities said.

"It was kind of what he was into and was quite excited as he got the opportunity to discuss that with investigators," Bernalillo County Sheriff Dan Houston said a news conference.

I didn't see anywhere in the article where the kid said that the games were what fueled him to do what he did. Only that he was frustrated with his mother at the time he decided to shoot her.

Chad, I love violent action movies too, and video games. I play the two games mentioned in this article, among many others. Yet I feel no urge to hurt anyone, act out anything on the screen, or be violent in any way. I have watched these movies and played these games for many years of my life. Blaming video games is an excuse on this sheriff's part.

It is not the games but the parents. Kids who get violent from games either have mental health issues or were never taught the difference between fantasy and reality, or at least not in a correct way

Parents are to blame? Really!

And, you are wrong...it is the games. Research has shown through MRIs that while playing these games the brain releases chemicals which have both short-term effects as well as long-term impacts on the developing tissue of the brain. To your point, researchers have found that line between reality and fantasy becomes harder and harder for video game enthusists to discern over time. Like soldiers who come back from war suffer from post traumatic stress disorder researchers are in the beginning stages of discovering that gamers suffer a similar disorder from hours of playing violent video games.

Let not your ideological opinion determine what science tells of the facts here. Parents haven't, until recently, been made aware of the effects. No more so than they were aware 20 years ago that diet sodas are extremely harmful to our bodies. Those parents who gave their kids sodas 20 years ago are no more guilty of neglect or child endangerment than parents who bought their kids video games for Christmas. Point is no one did research before placing the product on the market. It has been only after a lengthy period of time and mounting evidence that we, as a society, began looking into the possibility that violent video games are a problem to the developing brain tissue of young people. Finally, we all need to monitor our children and limit of not eliminate their exposure to these games which other than wasting time serve no developmental purpose what so ever!!! Who cares if you scored 20 Gazillion points killing terrorist on the latest edition of Call to Duty! Does it make you a better person? Does it give you skill sets to deal with reality and interaction with others? Does it help get a job or gain entrance into a college or university? Does it teach anything which will make you a better person?

Answer is HELL NO!!!

Flash!! Millions of teenage boys playing violent video games did not kill people today. In other news, boys that don't play violent video games are considered weird.

15 years old?! Boy, that's under the age requirement to buy violent video games, I wonder if his parents bought them...

hey dawg, how long till it starts effecting your brain? cause i've been playing violent games for around 25 years and haven't killed anyone yet. also, if what you said is true why don't we have mass murders every day? there are literally hundreds of millions of kids playing violent video games everyday. another question, why don't the hundreds of millions of kids outside the US go on violent rampages too if it's truly only about the games, which they also have?

and dawg pound it is the parents. Its their responsibility to monitor what their children play. Make sure that they are aware of whats real and not real. having played video games/dungeons and dragons myself for some odd 25 years I'd have to say I'm not likely to pick up a gun(or a sword) and go out and kill someone. These cases are really cases of people/kids with serious mental stability issues. That's where the focus needs to be. Not on video games, movies, or even guns.

DAWG, what the hell are you talking about??? That the brain releases a chemical when it is at a certain hyper state, like it does during ANY fast paced activity? I'm 47 now, and have been playing these games for MANY years. So I must have produced gallons on this chemical. yet, no violence.

These games aren't just sold in America you know. Yet.. only in America do teens shoot multiple people in schools, etc. I asked why above, and can guarantee no one will answer because they don't want to state the obvious. That is it something in the way Americans raise kids.

Blaming video games is an excuse on this sheriff's part.

The sheriff is reporting what he found.

You are right though... Not everyone who plays video games will commit a violent act. Not everyone who does hard drugs will become addicted. Not everyone who speeds will have an accident or kill someone. Not everyone who smokes cigarettes dies of cancer. Not everyone (you fill in the blank)...

Point is everything has risks. Do those risks have benefits? If so, then often they are worthy to do. What benefits do violent video games bring? Besides the passage of time! Do you have to play violent video games or could you be just as content playing frogger or donkey kong?

Dawg, without reading anything other than your first line I will respond. Yes the sheriff is reporting what he found, but it is his way of insinuating that the games led to the murder. I can guarantee that if asked, this sheriff loves the NRA. this is his way or politicizing this issue.

If I get a speeding ticket, and the cop asks me if I like video games.. oh boy.

These games aren't just sold in America you know. Yet.. only in America do teens shoot multiple people in schools, etc.

That's right! And is why it was Japan who initiated the studies into violent games as they have seen young teenagers become more violent over the past decade.

Read the research. The scientists, lab techs and medical doctors are reporting what they find. They don't stand to make millions from the studies. Now, the gaming companies make a TON on spitting out the latest version of a series in the violent video game world.

Lorielle - to answer the question WHY NOW?

why not now?

a few thoughts pop into my mind - why do we focus on one or two things as the "cause"

rather than focusing on all of it, including ourselves, as the cause?

Access to guns, violent video games, indifference to others, hatred of others, lack of respect, parents not raising their kids and just letting kids raise themselves, a lack of access to quality mental health, a good system that prevents the mentally unstable and proven violent from buying guns - whether from a dealer, private seller, or gun show. holding parents accountable for how crappy their children turn out.

the list goes on and on as to why NOW, and not then.

and almost all of it boils down to adults, unwilling to have adult conversations, make compromises for the greater good, accepting a great deal of the responsibility through their own personal greed and indifference.

you know, it's not a coincidence that people running a lot of businesses and making the most money are proven sociopaths (a mental illness according to a lot of people) - but their greed is valued, practically worshipped in America.

that greed nearly destroyed our economy.

what on earth do you think our collective greed (no matter what we are greedy about) is doing to us?

I've been to Japan. Teens there, and many other places, are becoming more rebellious because thay want to be Americanized. They listen to US music and watch American movies. On the video game front, their style of gaming is much different than in the US. Regardless, they aren't shooting up schools.

I didn't want to correct you, but the study you are referring to was done not as a way to prove games make people violent, but to see what the effects are in general, to include helping kids with ADHD. And there was nothing conclusive about the study.

My friends and I grew up playing video games in the early 80s. Don't try to say it hasn't affected us. I know my one friend is constantly going into orbit to shoot asteroids. He still can't figure out how to get his ship's guns to fire off more than 4 shots prior to one of those shots hitting an asteroid.

For myself, I'm constantly shooting centipedes and millipedes. If I'm anywhere near a river, I absolutely have to jump from log to log to chase frogs. I swear, that stuff just calls me.

I've killed millions upon millions of centipedes since 1982. There's no doubt in my mind that violent video games from my past are responsible for the centicide I've committed.

Please don't tell my mom. She really did try her best.

but it is his way of insinuating that the games led to the murder. I can guarantee that if asked, this sheriff loves the NRA. this is his way or politicizing this issue.

Muder, rape, theft, embezzlement etc etc most always involve a dynamic series of events which leads to an unfortunate result. Bernie Madoff didn't set out to rob people but in the end he did....

For you to say the sheriff is saying that video games is the entire result here is BULL $#!T! You are using STRAW MAN type of arguing which is an illogical format to argue.

Research is showing that violent video games impacts to the brain both short and long-term. More research is being done to determine what that effect or effects are. Let the science tell us and not your illogical thought processes and formats for arguing.

There are four County Sheriffs in my state of Oregon who have published open letters which they addressed to Vice President Biden, noting that they will refuse to enforce new gun control laws with which they personally disagree.

These letters are on separate letterheads, for those four different Sheriff's offices, but are nearly identically worded. Care to guess which organization actually composed and provided the text for those sheriff's letters? Hint: It wasn't the National Sheriff's Association.

All four letters reference video games, Hollywood movies and TV violence, the failure of government to address mental health, and all of the other sound-bite points that NRA Executive Vice-President Wayne LaPierre made in his post-Sandy Hook murders speech (the "everything in American society EXCEPT guns possession are at fault", speech).

All four of these County Sheriffs have gone on the record about their support for the NRA, they are members of that organization, and have received NRA support in their political campaigns for County Sheriff.

County Sheriffs are elected public officials. In most Counties in America they are not even required to be trained in law enforcement; it is a political office.

Neither are they required to have training in psychology, so conclusions by these individuals regarding 'causality' needs to be seen as those individual's "opinions"; nothing more.

IXLR, the article also said he had been planning this for a week, do you not think that part of his planing could have been to claim the "video games made me do it" card? its been used before in juvenile murder cases, and worked.

I play violent games, call of duty/halo and other FPS that show blood, i would have added grand theft auto but they haven't made a good one since vice city so i don't regularly play that title anymore. Yet i can count on one hand the number of times i have resulted to violence. 1. My cousin tried to drown me when we were in the pool, when i got out from under the water i clocked him in the nose, 2. a gang-banger pulled a knife on me at school, so i clocked him in the face and ran, and thats it. see i like video games.... period, if they are violent or show blood means nothing to most of us gamers, as long as they are fun to play.

And there was nothing conclusive about the study

The study???? Buddy there has been more than one study! Right now according to CNN, well over 200 studies are currently being conducted around the world! Over 100 of them here in the US. Here, because we have the research Universities and facilities to do it!!!!

Harold (The Centipede) of the Rocks,

For the longest time I thought I was Robatron. I held the high score at my local arcade for a long time, but with that came many quarters and many hours of play. To the point where I actually made the EEOOOOAAAHHEEEOOO sound with every move I made. My mom hated it.

The fact is, this boy with the aid of guns killed people.

The other fact is these games have an age restriction which he is clearly under, also these games do not take away your ability to know right from wrong, these games do not produce crazy, angry zombies incapable of free thought, free will and the ability to judge what it means to shoot someone in the real world.

Blaming video games is merely away of passing the buck on to something we can see rather than trying to deal with the mental ills that some people carry with them.

A child's brain is still developing during the teenage years, especially the reasoning part. They will act on impulse, not considering the ramifications of their actions. At his age,he doesn't realize that there are ways to handle frustrations other than killing someone you don't agree with. I feel sorry for this family. How many other dangerous situations similar to this one will we be reading about? I said years and years ago that the video industry is courting disaster with trying to outdo themselves with the violent garbage they put out. Their response was: "Children know the difference between fantasy and reality." Yeah, right.

As another posted said a few minutes ago, they announced last night that he didn't actually own a video game console, but played these games at a friends house. So if I were to believe that the games somehow produced a chemical in his brain which led to violent action, would playing it on occasion at his friends house be enough? Would his friend be a lost cause at this point.

I call BULLSH&T

Video games...? Yeah right!

I'm sure it had nothing to do with being a psychopath raised by a ex-con/preacher.

These cops are a bunch of @!$%#ing morons! All teenage boys love violent video games, saying that they are to blame is like blaming big breasts for rape. Ridiculous!

Gunny meets with Bernalillo County Sheriff Dan Houston at the Shooting Range Park -- NRAblog.com

http://www.nrablog.com/post/2011/09/21/Gunny-meets-with-Bernalillo-County-Sheriff-Dan-Houston-at-the-Shooting-Range-Park.aspx

Lawsuit spurs calls for sheriff to quit

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/politics/politics_2/lawsuit-spurs-calls-for-sheriff-to-quit

Hundreds have called for Bernalillo County Sheriff Dan Houston to resign after claims that he made sexist comments to and about women close to the department.

Just 24 hours after news of a new lawsuit claiming Houston is a racist and sexist, three groups stood on the steps leading into the sheriff’s department headquarters calling for the top cop to call it quits.

One question in all the mass shootings involving a non owned gun, just how many were actually secured? Trigger locks, safes and locked doors would have all been effective in tandem; break down the door? The safe would hold, pick the safe? Somebody would have noticed OR the trigger lock would still be there. Break off the trigger lock? You probably just broke off the trigger with it.

Barry has taught us to ALWAYS blame someone else...........

Dawg, so you believe global warming/climate change is real and helped along by humans.

you believe white men are more prone to commit mass shootings.

you believe marihuana is virtually safe and should be legal.

you believe dogs are mans best friends and cats are @!$%#s.

you believe man evolved from apes and there is no god.

you believe guns kill people.

you believe.....

all these have been "proven" in one scientific study or another, since you claim the study you are quoting is proof enough that video games= gamers becoming homicidal maniacs, then you have to believe all the others, cause after all its a scientific study, and science is never wrong!

Steve#s

Is that supposed to be some kinda brain twister?

Criticising those that place blame on others while simultaneously blaming someone else yourself.

The NRA can't be all wrong.

It's absolutely stupid to think the violence in movies, TV shows and video "games" has no effect on children.

Wake up people!

We are by nature a violent species. We've been warring with each other for centuries and we don't seem to be any closer to stopping it now than we were 500 years ago.

We need to recognize this tendency towards violence and stop providing "games" that involve killing anything, whether it's people or animals.

Children are growing up bombarded by movies and games showing mass shootings by movie stars like Stalone, Willis and Arnold. They are numb to it...they want to emulate it and the fact that they are taking lives is irrelevant.

We are going to have to make some really hard choices or we ar going to continue in the direction we are going.

Parents have to start being parents and choose what their kids can - and cannot watch. And yes the neighbor kid might have these stupid games - but that doesn't mean we just throw in the towel and say "Oh well...what can I do?".

The two video games indicated in the article sell millions of copies every year since they came out. They are two of the top selling video games out. GTA by itself has sold over 110 million copies.

Yet, for some reason, we don't have 110 million people going out and killing other people.

I guess there is NO correlation, and ZERO causation.

Yet the media is buying the NRA's bs, asking the questions and trying to put the spin out.

I know you addressed it to Dawg, but can I play too?

Having worked in the atmospheric sciences for 25+ years, I have yet to meet any Ph.D doing the research that denies man's role in climate change. For atmospheric scientists, they are WAY past wondering if man has a role. The only people questioning that are the politicians and their followers looking to protect the suppliers of fossil fuels. For the meteorologists doing the research, they are more concerned with determining how much change can we expect knowing that fossil fuels will be burned until there are no more.

I personally believe that alcohol is FAR MORE dangerous than marijuana and if alcohol is legal, then marijuana should be too. Alcohol prohibition failed. Marijuana prohibition failed. We have an obligation to learn from our mistakes. In all of recorded history, there has never been a marijuana overdose. The lethal toxicity of marijuana is 7 pounds, an impossible amount to digest. What happens when 1 person drinks half a bottle of Everclear Grain alcohol?

I have 2 cats and love them both. They are very affectionate. They exhibit 1% of the loyalty that a dog exhibits. Dogs are loyal to people. My cats are loyal to the can opener. I still love them both and they love me, especially when I'm holding that can opener.

I believe God got bored with the apes and wanted more so he evolved them into us. Why is it out of the realm of possibility that God created evolution?

I don't believe guns kill people. I believe bullets kill people.

It has been proven violence in movies affects no one but sex in movies affects every one. I'll find that study somewhere.

mozzie-600

Sorry I have to disagree with you most strongly, if we were talking a 4-10 year old yeah maybe, but a 15 year old?

At 15 sure they have inappropriate reactions to being told to clean their room, not stay out late etc but they know the differences between right and wrong and they know when you shoot someone in real life that someone can die.

He also loved the bible. Much more violent. Ban that one.

"...calling for the top cop to call it quits."

Are you just going to fling turds at the wall? Then call everyone else ignorant?

I am sure - this monster's mother or father would be just as much defenseless if this monster had attacked them with a knife instead of a gun.

OR may be .... now mothers should start hiring armed guards against their own sons.

But hey no - gun control. You hear me?

You have to admit that modern warfare and GTO are violent and glorify violence.

They are also games meant for kids under 18, so in this case the parents failed to provide guidance. I wonder what other areas they failed in? Oh, maybe it was letting a kid have access to weapons capable of murdering many people. So they had guns in their house, why didn't the parents just shoot their kid and prevent this crime? the whole thing is ridiculous.

This is really scary. All the 15 year olds with anger issues, in families across the US. I hope they can sleep well after reading this. Now the UN boys in the black helos better be coming for more than the guns, they better be coming after the blood soaked video games. I guess it all comes back to what is the easiest way to kill someone, as we see week after week, it is the guns. So many people are being killed each week by guns, it's almost like guns are becoming the new WMDs. I just wonder about how many more people have to die, how many more families torn up, before the NRA (Not Rational Anytime) will offer some helpful ideas, instead of just more guns will fix it. Maybe if they just could muzzle their more insane nut jobs, at least that would be start. This is kind of like sailing into a hurricane, you know it's going to be bad, but it's whether or not you will survive is the question!!

I have been playing "Violent" video games sense I was about 7yrs old on the Sega Genesis. I have yet to murder someone.

Doom... Doom 3.... F.E.A.R, Resident Evil, Tomb Raider... Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Medal of Honor, Battlefield... you name it, I have most likely played it. Blaming video games is a poor way of not shifting the blame where it belongs. On the Parents who should have done there job raising children like my mother did me.

Video games aren't the problem, just like Movies arnt the problem of the 1980's.

Lets get real here, all these problems is because parents think they can put there kid on their neighbors to watch as they drink to much beer or smoke to much weed. Want the real blame, what the hell were the parents doing not observing what there kids play let alone not locking up the firearms in the correct manor? If he really wanted to kill, he could have easily used a knife instead of a gun if he didn't have easy access to firearms in the house.

These type of family shootings occurred a generation ago, when the most violent video games were Pac Man and Asteroids.

They were also occurring before video games ever existed.

Children and adolescents are impulsive and often don't understand the consequences of their own actions, but 99.9% of them can tell the difference between shooting an adversary in a violent video game. Those who can't probably would not understand the difference between shooting somebody with a toy gun, and shooting them in real life.

Uh Oh, Here we go......The next thing the liberals are going to "reform" (ban).........Great...just F'king great......

#1.66 Indigokid - Children are growing up bombarded by movies and games showing mass shootings by movie stars like Stallone, Willis and Arnold. They are numb to it...they want to emulate it and the fact that they are taking lives is irrelevant.

The children who are prone to this type of activity think that this (violent) behavior is the way grownups behave, and "that's what I want to do, because I want to grow up as quick as I can". We, as adults, are showing a terrible example for our children. "It takes a village to raise a child." We have failed miserably.

#1.70 Krestov - Sorry I have to disagree with you most strongly, if we were talking a 4-10 year old yeah maybe, but a 15 year old?

Yes, a fifteen-year-old. You may disagree all you want, but the fact is that the brain of a teenager - especially the reasoning part - is not fully developed until he/she is 25 years old. I suggest you retract your statement.

Like nobody saw this angle coming. Come on, push for gun control and violent games? Could this be anymore stagged. I guess we shouldn't ban violent games, we should ban teenagers access to violent games. Suppose, in the weeks to come we see a rash of hit and run accidents, are we supposed to ban automobiles too? While we're on the subject, how is it that a 15 year old even had access to those games? That's the parents fault for allowing him to play that.

IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!! Oh, God the therapy I've gone through from the last 3 decades when it was so obvious. The reason why I kept dropping anvils on people's heads was because I watch Wyle E. Coyote do it so many times!! Makes as much sense as this stupid video game theory. Brainless cop out bull@!$%# theory like this has been around since Tom and Jerry cartoons were banned by some parents because their dumb asses thought it would make their kids violent. That eventually grew into the limp wristed "everyone gets a trophy, every kid is special" parent mentality. We are becoming a nation of finger pointing pussies.

ItIsWhat!t!s - Can you drive your gun to work? Didn't think so. Even so, the automobile is highly regulated (speed, registration, insurance, etc...)

Video games do not cause violence, only exacerbate it in those who are already prone to it and cannot distinguish reality from fantasy. Just because 'A' is associated with 'B' does not make the statement "B causes A" a true one. More simply - correlation does not equal causation. Logic + Science is really quite useful if applied correctly.

Lots of logical fallacies on both sides.

so guns dont kill people but video games about guns do? Ok I get it, how could I be so blind, one inanimate object that is designed to kill people is ok but the other that is not designed to kill people is not ok. Lets see, I have never owned a gun and have never thought of shooting anyone, but I own dozens of games about guns so that makes me a potential killer in the NRA's eyes.

OMG!!! President Obama staged this homicide like he did the Sandy Hook Shootings just so he could ban video games and guns!!! He's a tyrant!!!OMG!! Save us from the tyrant!!

But wait, wouldn't a tyrant arrest people who publically called him a tyrant? you know like the guys on fox? I mean George Bush had people dragged out of their homes for disagreeing with him and yet no conservative called him a tyrant. And Pinochet, a real tyrant, use to throw people out of helicopters for saying he was a bad guy. What of Saddam, he had people executed for speaking out against him, now thats a tyrant. And our laws actually say if you verbally threaten the presidents life you can be arrested, but yet the hundreds of idiots who threatened his life on twitter yesterday are still running free. Well hell, as a tyrant who is bent on taking away all of our rights President Obama is kind of a wuss in comparison to the rest of the tyrants throughout history.

Hmm, maybe this is all fear mongering on the part of the right wing extremists who hate President Obama. Maybe he didn't have anything to do with this shooting or anyother shooting. Maybe he had no plans to come after our guns and it's just paranoia on the part of some crazy wingnuts who think they need an assault weapon because they play too many violent video games and watch to many violent movies.

so guns dont kill people but video games about guns do?

Good question, even if it is rhetorical.

Doesn't every 15 year old boy love violent video games?

LOL!!! It's so funny reading the liberals defending violent video games and movies that actually turns these kids into demonic psycho mass killers, but attack the ownership of guns.

You can't make this stuff up. Of course, the answer is obvious....They like them too. Therefore, they don't want what THEY like regulated.

HATR_HURTER #1.12

steven, can you recall any mass shootings that didn't involve guns?

That is a loaded question. Mass shootings, by definition involve guns. Now if we expand that to mass killings, then none of the following involved guns.

Timothy McVeigh killed 168 people (including children) with a truck bomb on April 19, 1995.

The four terror attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001 killed an estimated 2,996 people.

Zheng Minsheng killed 8 children with a knife in Nanping, China on March 23, 2010.

Wu Hauanming killed 2 adults and 7 children with a meat cleaver in Hanzhong, China on May 12, 2010.

ToxicChemist, I have bad news. I would bet money that the sheriff that made the stupid connection between this case and video games is NOT a liberal. This guy has NRA written all over him.

Harold, good stuff.

After reading most of these posts, one thing is certain - the US education system is an abject failure. The entirely convoluted logic displayed here is laughable, if not tragic. Most posters wouldn't recognize a rational, linear argument if they heard one.

"You can't make this stuff up. Of course, the answer is obvious....They like them too. Therefore, they don't want what THEY like regulated."

"Like nobody saw this angle coming. Come on, push for gun control and violent games? Could this be anymore stagged."

A couple of generations of ignorant, selfish, self-absorbed twits. No intellectual skills, no social skills, no technical skills. No sense of equity, no sense of community, no sense of fair play, no sense of empathy. Only one interest in life - what they want. And no intellectual or literate means of expressing themselves.

These posts are a classic representation of the dilemma we face. We don't want to hear your argument - we want you to hear ours. The responses to this post will illustrate my point far better than I have.

SDN - Nice, careful editing to try and make your point....My response..."Haters gonna hate.".

Your list of insults can be directly thrown right back at you. "We don't want to hear your argument - we want you to hear ours.".

None of the liberals that are pro gun control want to hear anything from those that do not....They don't want any debate in Congress. They want Obama to use executive orders to enact laws. So, until your side starts acting properly, then do not criticize the other side for their responses. What's the old saying? "Don't worry about the splinter in my eye, when you have a tree growing out of yours."

paws: Like I said. "None of the liberals...." Uh, huh.

I remember (it was a few years back) a study that showed that kids who played violent video games were less likely to commit violent crimes. By percentages, the kids who were more likely to commit violent crimes were the ones who were sheltered from that sort of fantasy portal but experienced some form of violence (bullying) in their every day life.

As for the kid's enthusiasm? Who doesn't get excited when talking about anything they enjoy? I get excited when talking about working on cars. Am I going to drive a car into a pedestrain shopping mall? No! The lack of emotion when talking about the killings are attributable to two things: 1) Psychopathic tendencies. 2) Post-tramatic stress. Neither of which excuses the act, let's be clear on that. But also, neither of which has anything to do with violent video games.

CoD is one of the most popular game series out there. Statistically speaking, more accounts of players of CoD are going to be committing violent crimes. That's like saying Microsoft OS is to blame for violent crimes. It's simply more popular (and probably more true). Percentages will show that a smaller percentage of players of violent games (like CoD) commit violent crimes.

SDN - Like I said...right back at you.

Oh, for crying out loud.

I use to love playing Pac-Man as a kid. Did that mean that I should've become a pill-popper with a penchant for the supernatural, getting the munchies for fruits? I also enjoyed Gauntlet... haven't ridden any ostriches into battle yet. And there has never been one faux gun-mounted game that has remotely made me want to march into a warehouse, pretend people are aliens and zombies, and blow 'em away.

Blaming the media and make-believe for REAL LIFE PERSONAL ACCOUNTABILITY is the biggest cop-out that America has going.

"Wah, I'm a victim. Wah, McDonald's is making me fat--it's not the money that I'm pulling out of my wallet at the drive-thru or the burgers that I'm putting in my mouth, it's the advertisements making me weak and making all that food look so good! I'm weak and they're praying on my weaknesses!"

And the same argument goes towards video games. And movies. And television. Suck it up.

Perhaps a portion of kids under the age of five (certainly, not all of them as a rule) have difficulty distinguishing between fantasy and reality to the degree that the media and society wants to put on teenagers and adults.

The reality is that we don't want to be responsible for our own actions and have to have a scapegoat. What better one can there be than blaming our "input" because we think we have no control over what we expose ourselves to?

Victim mentality, all the way. "I saw a violent movie." Oh, did someone strap you down in a seat and make you watch the whole thing? "That music encourages violence." I didn't realize that you were trapped in a room with music that has violent lyrics, or you couldn't buy a cheap pair of headphones and pump music that doesn't say such things.

America, get over it. Take account of yourself, your daily life and what YOU expose yourself to.

Standupjackoff, Another one in denial.

Standupjackoff, Another one in denial.

if by "denial" you mean "spot on correct in the assertion that in no way did violent video games cause this kid to massacre his family", you'd be correct.

Ostriches were Joust, not Gauntlet :)

I played Jumpman when I was a kid, and now I can't go anywhere without jumping. Shoould never have played that damned game <kicking self>. Don't get me started on Mario Brothers; just be glad you're not a turtle or mushroom.

Bob Freebird

I played Jumpman when I was a kid, and now I can't go anywhere without jumping. Shoould never have played that damned game <kicking self>. Don't get me started on Mario Brothers; just be glad you're not a turtle or mushroom.

Should we also stay clear of Duck Hunt? Cause I sure as hell wanted to shoot the dog after a while.

State, you don't want to know how many dogs I killed because of the damned dog from Duck Hunt. I can still see him laughing at me now...quick gimmie a dog.

Don't mind Arthur, folks. Apparently he's one of those that can't live without attributing blame for himself and his actions to other people and things. It's a crutch. Pity those who rely on it! They simply can't help themselves...

Oh, wait, maybe that's why there has to be enough blame to go around... because we humans are so pitiful and not nearly as self-sufficient as we think we are...

Okay, let me reverse my previous statement! "Yea, that's right! That's the ticket!" It's ALL the fault of the world around us. We are each innocent creatures living in our own safe, secure little cocoon of happiness and peace, and we're cruelly being assaulted by the violent and deadly elements of the outside world. No matter what we do, no matter what decisions we make in private, it doesn't matter because the Big Bad World is gonna drag us down!

(is that better?)

violent video games and entertainment is as popular or more so in Japan, yet gun violence and violence in general is almost non-existent. Europeans have access to video games and movies and again not nearly the same level of violence or shootings as in the US. I'm sure there or societal factors that underlie the problems in the US, but the 2 things that stand out when compared to the US are the availability of guns and the gun culture. in that respect the US is more like the 3rd world than an industrialized nation

We have always had guns in this country, they used to be much easier to get (no age restrictions, mail order, etc) and a larger percentage of households had them. I challenge anyone who talks about the "gun culture" to tell me when we didn't have one - however you define that.

Many parents no longer raise their kids, they stick them in front of the TV instead. Discipline? We got rid of corporal punishment years ago because it was too cruel for the snowflakes. Now we have time out. Personal responsibility? It's everyone and everything else's fault. Try explaining that to a German - their culture laughs at such silliness.

Its a toxic combination of poor parenting, no punishment, no personal responsibility, and yes an entertainment culture with so much violence there simply isn't anything left to shock us. Add up all those things plus stress and the feeling of angst and the weaker among us run the risk of going off like this kid. And why? He was mad at mom. I wonder if he would have had formulated that same plan had he not heard the details of Aurora, SH, etc for 24/7 for weeks on end.

standup. Well done - cheers. The responses speak for themselves. ergo "Standupjackoff, Another one in denial." Put this guy in charge of nuclear waste disposal? Probably not. Cleaning shutters? Maybe.

@Dawg Pound----I read a couple of your responses and glanced over some of the others. Besides mentioning CNN where is your source for all this misinformation you are rambling about?

Violent video games is in the headline but the story paints a picture of a kid brought up in an unusual family environment. Video games gets the clicks, the rest of it probably would not garner as much of a response.

Here is my own personal study as I am a 47 year old gamer and I have played violent video games for approximately 30 of those years. I have also watched violent and very warped movies. I listened to the music we weren't supposed to listen to. I have also fired guns but I have never owned one. I am also 6-2 and about 225 pounds and can take care of myself if needed. I am not a violent person and do not believe viloence is the way to deal with a problem. Now that I have that out of the way I first need to ask, how long have you been playing violent video games? Do you know how many people are online playing violent video games at any given time? Do you know how many of those that are playing are minors?

Between all gaming platforms including consoles and PC's there can be well over a million people playing violent video games at any time of the day with many more during peak hours. Roughly 60-80% of those players are minors. So here is the question, why isn't this happneing much more often than it is???? Based on what you are spewing out this should be a daily occurance in this country.

State where you are getting your information and stop claiming your opinion to be fact. The fact of the matter is something that has been an issue all throughout mankind. Some people just aren't wired correctly and they do strange, stupid, violent and warped things that we as normal thinkers do not understand. We need to affix blame to every mental case out there. Change everything for everyone because one person screws up.

One more thing I forgot to mention, are you even aware of how long these games have been out and being played? Look up Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake so you go back far enough. Based on the studies you claim are out there we should have thousands of people dead by the hands of these gamers.

Because there isn't.

Because there isn't.

A puerile response. Got anything besides "because I said so"?

The Columbine shooters played Doom, and even built their own customized levels that mimicked Columbine High School's layout.

On what level has it been discerned that there IS a link for SOME people? This boy included. All I see here is. Boy kills his parents. Boy plots to kill girlfriends parents. Boy kills pastor. Oh..and he liked to play violent videogames.

That mere mention does not constitute any special relationship with the crimes and could easily be disproven with putting any hobby in its place. 'This kid killed four people...and he like to collect pokemon cards.'

If its time to do anything, its time to listen to what the science has been telling us since the 80s. The notion that playing videogames causes people to kill other people (or other acts of violence) is unabashed bull@!$%#.

Steven B, if the Columbine kids had the forethought to modify a game to match their desires, doesn't it stand to logic that their desires to kill preceeded the playing of this game?

The notion that playing videogames causes people to kill other people (or other acts of violence) is unabashed bull@!$%#.

http://www.apa.org/research/action/games.aspx

Dr. Anderson and colleagues have shown that playing a lot of violent video games is related to having more aggressive thoughts, feelings, and behaviors (Anderson & Bushman, 2001). Furthermore, playing violent games is also related to children being less willing to be caring and helpful towards their peers. Importantly, research has shown that these effects happen just as much for non-aggressive children as they do for children who already have aggressive tendencies (Anderson et al., under review; Gentile et al., 2004).

To establish a causal connection between violent videogames and real violence, you'd have to show actual influence--an increase in violence that runs parallel to the increase in video games. What we have in America in the past 20 years is incredible increase in the number of people playing videogames, and an increase in the violence of those videogames, while at the same time seeing a dramatic DECREASE in violent crime. Murder rates are down by half, and assaults and other violent crimes are also down.

So, while succint, Geowil is 100% accurate. There is no link.

all Bruce has observed is that people with who are likely to engage in real world violence also enjoy videogame violence. There is nothing to suggest that, had the violent videogames not been present, he never would have thought about violent actions.

Steven B, if the Columbine kids had the forethought to modify a game to match their desires, doesn't it stand to logic that their desires to kill preceeded the playing of this game?

Their plans on how to kill were made easier by the training they received playing Doom and Wolfenstein.

So, are we saying this kid NEVER watched TV or movies ? Movies are a lot more real looking than any video game is now. Think about it...

So, are we saying this kid NEVER watched TV or movies ? Movies are a lot more real looking than any video game is now. Think about it...

Steven,

Besides all of the studies done that have found that:

1. Children taught the difference between reality and fantasy are much less likely to do violent acts because of violent media (up to 80% less occurrences)

2. Those that do act violently are almost always mentally ill in some form or another including not knowing the difference between fantasy and reality.

3. The fact that every country in the world has violence in their media in some way or another yet their gun violence is much less than ours (it is something America is actually first in, gun violence).

Umm Columbine had nothing to do with Doom. They were using the game to plan a premeditated attack. They could have done the same with any game with mod tools including something like teletubbies.

I did a 25 page research paper on this topic back in my Sophomore year of high school in 2002/3 and have keep following the situation since then so I have seen all of the studies on both sides of the argument and many of the ones claiming there is a link either only used mentally ill kids or kids from broken homes (I consider homes where families encourage violence like using wrestling moves or having their kids watch WWE habitually to be in this category) who are more likely to become violent.

Some of the studies against the idea have also done this by in opposite, leaving out actual cases where it did occur. However the fact of the matter is that if violent media caused people to become violent there would be much more violence all around and that is not happening.

In other words in order for violent media to play a part in an act of violence there almost always has to be a mental health component either from an actual mental illness or from a delusion brought about by parents not doing their jobs.

One thing most of these gun crimes that have been in the news lately have had in common is that, so far, they have been committed by the mentally ill (we will have to see on this one but I bet it will follow suit) and their weapons and ammo were very easy to obtain legally. In the past two cases now, Sandy Hook and now this one, the guns involved were improperly stored by their owners resulting in easy access to the weapons and ammunition.

None of the recent cases have been committed by mentally sound individuals (again, I am betting this one has that mental component) that have been affected only by the media they consume and that is what caused them to go off. I am sure if you dug far enough you could find such a case however the occurrence of violence from media without mental illness is very low.

I played violent video games my entire life. I was bullied in school. I was also from a broken home. Listened to "violent" music, etc. I have NEVER had a thought about harming another human being. Games are games, music is music, reality is reality. I played doom as a kid, and made my own levels. Today I design/program computers for a living. I seriously doubt playing a violent video game made this kid this way. Because he WAS already this way, he probably enjoyed playing the games. That does not mean the game caused his behavior and it does not mean everyone who enjoys playing these games is a future mass killer.

No matter what we do, what is legal or not, how good parents are or aren't some people just go "wrong". Sadly, this happens ALL THE TIME. The news cherry picks what to print based on what they can sell. Today they sell gun control and banning violent video games.

This is why mental health needs a massive revamp in this country. Instead of knee jerk, politically motivated declarations of "the video game made him do it...", we need REAL professional researchers to get into this. We need to find solutions for diagnosing issues and treating them effectively.

We need legislation that protects those who seek treatment from the discrimination those who seek help get for the rest of their life. Let's say you are a law enforcement officer. Your wife leaves you, and you have a temporary breakdown and go for help. Goodbye firearm, job, security clearance, etc.. In the military, well your career is over. In fact about every single place you work, if they find you are being treated for a mental illness, you will find that a huge obstacle.

But hey, you are right, lets not actually look into an expensive, long term fix that takes actual work with little to no fanfare...its all the video games fault.

Their plans on how to kill were made easier by the training they received playing Doom and Wolfenstein.

Really? You are going to go with this training them? Shooting a gun in a game and shooting a gun in real life are VASTLY different.

That is like saying I am really good at Madden, why have I not been drafted into the NFL to coach or play?

The biggest argument here is correlation versus causation. There may be a correlation between violent video games and violent behavior, but that does not mean that one is causing the other.

Steve, do yourself a favor and read past the executive summaries on those studies. Look at the methodologies they used to establish those "behavior patterns."

First, Anderson and Bushman pass their results solely on questionaires about thoughts and feelings, not observation of actual behavior. So they absolutely fail to establish these videogames cause children to forget the moral context of their actions and result in violent or uncaring action.

Second, and most importantly, they failed to administer any pre-videogame questionaires to their study subjects to assess "aggressive or uncaring thoughts" in the absence of videogames to measure a change in those thoughts after introducing the stimulus to be tested. They merely divided a random sample in to two groups, and had one play a violent videogame and another play a nonviolent, and asserted any difference in surveyed emotional state was a result of the videogame.

That's not good science.

Oh, as I recall, their being "goths" was originally blamed. Then it was allegedly because they did not believe in God. They wore trench coats, etc. Ironic that the search for a simple explanation resembles a target peppered with misses.

Steven,

Edmund Kemper. 1964 shot his grandparents then went on to be serial killer. He was 15 when he started.

Jesse Pomeroy, born 1859

Graham young born 1947

Look these kids up and tell me what link they had to video games.

Ever think that playing video games is coincidental to what happened because so many kids play them that the bad ones as well as the good ones are bound to be playing them?

Here's a thought, blame rock and roll for teenage pregnancy to because the kids who fornicated listned to it while they did.

Let's blame Judas Preist for that kids suicide too while we are at it.

Yeah all the trouble of the kids are rock music, and video games......yeah thats it.

The triggering device can be anything, even a simple thought that has not been processed within the context of the core thoughts that are already stored.

I think Painkiller is a fun game. It is probably the most "shoot-em-up" game I've seen, since the goal seems to be to shoot as many demons/purgatory inhabitants as possible while listening to metal. Should I be out murdering everyone instead of spending my time getting abused by my cat and volunteering?

My boyfriend is a big "God of War" fan, which is pretty darn violent. He's going to murder me in his sleep with a warglaive, right?

People who are violent will be drawn to violent games because obviously they are right up their alley. So this will skew the odds in favor of violent killers having played games. Plus the fact that the vast majority of teenagers are going to be playing these games is a contributing factor. But at least 99% of teenagers who play these games aren't going to murder anyone.

Correlation vs. causation. This is a case of correlation. Much like someone merely owning a firearm is not going to make them a murderer.

How about instead of this mindless bickering we start thinking:

1. Is this person mentally ill?

2. Has this person been violent in the past?

3. Does this person have an obsession with violence?

4. Does this person have easy access to firearms?

Perhaps we should start making mental care easier, more affordable, and more available. Maybe instead of banning violent video games we use them as a means to measure the likelihood of someone having a violence problem. Maybe instead of banning guns we create a system where anyone who is likely to be violent will have significantly less access to them? Maybe instead of yelling we should encourage firearm safety and training and require the ownership of a gun safe and license for anyone who wants one?

Also, if you do the stats, murders, if it was in fact ALL gamers, and there was 10 murderers PER murder, that still isn't even 1% of the total population of the USA that plays violent video games.

That's like saying ALL people who drive a Ford are more likely to be bad drivers. I'm sorry, anyone who says violent video games cause violent murders to happen, needs to look at the facts, not the studies. There's studies for just about everything and every viewpoint but that does not support the statement 'violent video games cause violence'.

On what level has it been discerned that there IS a link for SOME people? This boy included. All I see here is. Boy kills his parents. Boy plots to kill girlfriends parents. Boy kills pastor. Oh..and he liked to play violent videogames.

That's all you see because that's all you WANT to see. It's just so much easier and convenient to go after the NRA like your "leaders" tell you to, isn't it? Do some research on the National Rifle Association and you'll find that they promote responsible gun ownership and firearm safety. They have extensive safety and training programs with a HUGE emphasis on firearm safety. Yes, we need to look at gun laws in this country and maybe make some adjustments. But liberals expose their bias terribly when they dismiss the other factors (violence in video games, movies, and television) and only focus on gun laws. Makes me wonder if their agenda is REALLY aimed at preventing violence or simply getting rid of guns (and the violence is just a good excuse).

Holy non-discreet, biased reporting, batman.

I'm not saying video games don't cause violence in some kids, but this was clearly nothing but an agenda push. This like saying humans require water to live, almost every teenager in the world that has the systems available play ultra violent video games.

When I was in Afghanistan, most of the places you could unwind in had a few Xboxes. My favorite was when we got a pool table, unfortunately we broke the damn thing within a month so back to Xbox it was for a lot of us.

Syria? West Bank? Pakistan? India? (sorry, the last one was mass rapes, not shootings.)

Violent games have NOTHING TO DO WITH VIOLENT BEHAVIOR!!!

Not according to the APA:

http://www.apa.org/science/about/psa/2003/10/anderson.aspx

Myth 1. Violent video game research has yielded very mixed results.

Facts: Some studies have yielded nonsignificant video game effects, just as some smoking studies failed to find a significant link to lung cancer. But when one combines all relevant empirical studies using meta-analytic techniques, five separate effects emerge with considerable consistency. Violent video games are significantly associated with: increased aggressive behavior, thoughts, and affect; increased physiological arousal; and decreased prosocial (helping) behavior

Myth 7. Violent video games affect only a small fraction of players.

Facts: Though there are good theoretical reasons to expect some populations to be more susceptible to violent video game effects than others, the research literature has not yet substantiated this. That is, there is not consistent evidence for the claim that younger children are more negatively affected than adolescents or young adults or that males are more affected than females. There is some evidence that highly aggressive individuals are more affected than nonaggressive individuals, but this finding does not consistently occur. Even nonaggressive individuals are consistently affected by brief exposures.

@Steven B

The APA's stance on violent video games has a lot of holes in it, some of which they even point out in the rest of that article. For example, there is little to no evidence that an otherwise non-violent person can be made violent by violent media. Even if those that play violent games are more likely to have violent tendencies, it could just be that people with violent tendencies are drawn to violent video games.

@cory1980 So, you're comparing us to either countries in civil war or third world countries that have trouble even keeping their people fed or even have democratic presence in many regions???... you sir are the opposite of smart LOL

@Steven B So, your evidence is that there is isn't evidence of a link to violent video games to violent behavior? wow...

And YES, violent video games do only affect a small fraction of players. Unfortunately, those players are some how extremely disproportionately in the US. Otherwise, you would have all kinds of people wanting to pass laws to limit violent games all over the world.

@Steven B

Your link references the work of essentially one person. His name is all over the work that is supposedly debunking the myths of video game violence. He is making a claim and then pointing to his own work as proof of that claim. Gee...think there might be some bias there? His sources are he, himself, and him.

@jwbooth66

"Every country in the world has these games and violent movies also, and the good ol' US of A is the ONLY country that has mass shootings every week"

Third world countries, countries in civil war, and countries in civil unrest account for some of the countries in this world, right? You stated "every country in the world," these mentioned are a few of them. And this makes "me" the opposite of smart how?

@cory1980 The fact that you have only listed "some of the countries" in the world without actually giving an argument for your point is proof enough. My argument was to point out that the US has disproportionate number of mass shootings that are related to passive activities, like movies and video games and music. And you come back with this list? So, you are saying that these countries show too many violent movies and have too many violent video games, and that is the reason for their civil strife????

I have concluded your are not intelligent and also may have a reading comprehension disability. Good luck with that...

So Rontron...you knew the family personally? The father, mother, and kids are all dead. I am sure their family and friends appreciate you throwing on how bad parents they were on a public board. Nice. Maybe you should go to their funeral and mention that.

My best friend wore camo all the time too growing up. Guess what? He is a US Marine now and a darned good one.

We know nothing about the family or the boys medical status, how about you hold off on what a horrid father he had until we all do.

A pity party is needed less then a reason for the tragedy. Ultimately parents are societies guards against a crazy ba$tad running around on a killing spree before they even reach the age of consent. I think questions of the parenting this kid received are more then fair regardless of who he killed. The fact that his parents 'apparently' "did not see it coming" may speak volumes about parenting today.

Everyone loves to pick their special interest inanimate object to blame for everything, how about we all try a douse of reality and look at what the most likely issues are.

So we want to pretend the problem is guns?? The kid could not legally buy or own a gun...So, Parents...

So we want to pretend it is violent video games??? Well guess what, Grand Theft Auto has a Mature rating, stores should not be selling it to anyone under 18....... So, Parents.

No matter what we want to pretend is the cause, aside from Humans suck, and even then, Parenting...

We must recognize that only People have caused the horrific crimes, no tool, toy, amusement item, or any Object is to blame, it is all about the Human.

A nutty psychologist will probably say this boys brain was not fully developed and therefore not responsible for his actions.

No. A nutty psychologist would declare a 15 year-old's brain fully mature. A qualified psychologist (or even a neanderthal who took a high-school-level psychology class) understands that OF COURSE A 15 YEAR OLD'S BRAIN IS UNDERDEVELOPED.

That's why our society made laws to prohibit them from drinking alcohol, buying weapons, serving in the military, and in almost all states, driving a car. Like it or not, a 15 year old is incapable of making reasoned decisions and therefore, not legally responsible for his actions. Oh sure, we can pretend that's not the case and try him like an adult... but that doesn't change the fact that his 15 year old brain is not fully developed.

Thank you. A rare voice of reason!

Every time something like this happens there is a trail of red flags a mile long that were obvious yet nothing was done. These psychopaths are displaying violent behavior and warning signs long before they finally work up to committing a violent act. It's long overdue that people are educated on what to look for and what actions to take to prevent a kid from sliding down into the abyss...it doesn't happen overnight.

I'd give you more votes for that comment but it won't let me. Far too many people now days refuse to take responsibility for anything and always look for a scapegoat.

If you hate this country, LEAVE! Sure we have problems, but there is no way in hell I could ever say or type what you wrote.

The people who are going to solve our problems are those who LOVE this country and want to try to make it work.

God I f-ing hate this country

Islamic militants are quite fond of telling God how much they hate the USA. Birds of a feather.....

I was under the distinct impression that the designated scapegoat in all of these discussions about all of these subjects was President Obama. If we're going to disallow scapgoating, most of these claims will be instantly invalid. What then?

my feelings also. If it were soley the games, there would be even more of this violence.

The same can be said of the 350,000,000 million guns out there. They haven't hurt anyone, and their owners don't hurt anyone either.

If you refuse to assign any blame to the 'virtual training simulators' that games like Call of Duty, then lay off of my guns.

You can't have it both ways.

Isn't a gun owners job to take care of their weapons and keep them out of childrens hands ? I'm not blaming gus, not at all but, If the owners of the weapons had them locked up, the child would not of had access.

And guess what would of happen if the child did not have access to guns ?

Gee wiz... What a concept !!!!!!

Let's get to the real problem here, a kid that had problem, parents who did not help, guns in the house...maybe media helped but, it's not just video games, try TV and movies... Hmmm...

Why dont parents acutally be parents ?

Steven--it's possible to defend the 1st and the 2nd Amendment simultaneously. You don't have to pivot blaming videogames in order to defend gun ownership.

I wasn't aware that by operating two thumbsticks on a CONTROLLER that it was just like holding a gun and pulling a trigger. Now if that gun was on a remote-controlled machine that had a System-like controller, then you win the argument.

I'll tell you what would have happened if he didn't have access David. He would have used a knife or bat to kill his mom with. He might have used his bare hands. Only the irresponsible types blame inanimate objects for a tragedy. It wasn't the gun, it wasn't the video games. It was the parents fault.

Millions of kids are raised around guns (and stop already with the 'arsenal' crap) and they grow up to be good, responsible adults.

and there is a few bad seeds....with guns

Steven B, just becuase you dont know games, dont go blaming it on them. Understand how people who dont understand guns do, they just want to ban them. Seems your being the same way. You cant have it both ways.

And millions of kids grow up raised around videogames (and stop with all the "violence trainer" crap) and they grow up to be good responsible adults.

Steven,

because the parents make sure that is the case. In these kinds of cases there is always some form of neglect by the parents. This guy was obviously mentally ill and yet nothing was done to deal with that (for example he was not in an institution). IMO mentally ill should not be housed in the same location as guns, especially if that location is not under guard. Pills only do so much and if the patient stops taking them there is nothing that can be done until someone notices.

I play the games mentioned in this article all the time, and have so for many years. I play them online with people from MANY countries. In particular players from the UK. Of course this has created many scenes of mass gun murder in the UK... oh wait, no it hasn't! Gee I wonder why? Could it be that upbringing has plenty to do with how a teen sees and values life? A country that makes such a tremendous deal of a right to have a gun takes a toll, and influences kids. Nothing wrong with owning a gun. Nothing wrong with teaching your kids of the need for them and gun safety and responsibility. But I see too often the mentality that guns are just toys for people to shoot in the woods. American Kids are growing up not understanding the consequences.

It all starts in the home. Its not the video game.

There is one, it is called the Sims (1, 2, and 3) and it is very popular. All of the people involved in these shootings over the past few years have probably played it.

"God forbid if they put out a video game that depicts doing well in school, being popular, finding a great job, marrying a lovely girl, and raising a happy, healthy family. I couldn't imagine the freakin' terror!"

I could; that sounds like the worst game ever. That game would make me want to shoot people more than Halo or Call of Duty.

There are numerous non-violent video games. You just don't hear about them because it is harder for people to try to blame things on them. Ever hear of Harvest Moon? The Sims? Roller Coaster Tycoon? Sim City? Tetris? Train Simulator 2012?

Well Bob, Then you lose in the "Happy Life Game".

Maybe, Bluesman, but I did all of those things (doing well in school, being popular, finding a great job, marrying a lovely girl, and raising a happy, healthy family) in the "Real Life Game". I won that one. I'm okay with losing in the "Happy Life Game".

Maybe that is the real problem, Life is not a game Bluesman 1288104... It is thinking like that that is harming our kids.

"Won't someone please think of the Children!?!?!?!"

In video games like Grand Theft Auto, no matter what crime you commit the police get uppity, the worse the crime the more uppity, that shows actions have consequences, they can be a teaching tool.

In life our actions have less consequences then they used to because rather then saying "he is a bad apple, fry him" we now say, it must be Games, Music, Guns, insert your hated pet item to ban here.

Personal responsibility, it is not just a slogan...... Personal responsibility extends to the families we raise. No one said parenting is easy, that is why sex is so fun.

The "violent video games" are rated M. It's illegal to sell those to anyone under 17.

I agree with your post, but just to clarify: it is not against the law to sell a rated M game to anyone under 17. Like movie ratings, it is a voluntary system. California passed a state law that made it illegal to sell mature games to children, and the court struck it down as violating the first amendment. If a Game Stop employee sells a mature game to a child, he can't be arrested, though he can be fired by the company if they choose to.

Other than that, I agree. Correlation does not equal causation. Since almost every person under 30 plays video games, it's no surprise to find that a crazy person played them. I would never allow any child of mine under 17 to play a GTA or COD game. There are tons of age appropriate games, from Portal to The Sims to Journey to Pixeljunk.

Clotho,

it is in some states but the law is not enforced.

Actually, Geowil, it isn't. California tried to enact such a law, and the Supreme Court ruled it an unconstitutional breach of the first amendment in the case of Brown v. Entertainment Merchants Association. All previous times that various states had similar laws passed, lower appellate courts struck them down with the same reasoning that the Supreme Court issued in this case. Thus in no state is it illegal to sell a minor an M rated or Not rated game, though most companies won't do so because of store policy/p.r. reasons

What about Hitler killing six million Jews? That wasn't caused by video games but he still did kill six millions Jews.

Everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame....where such people wanting to be famous and remembered in history regardless of it being medical, scientific or CRIMINAL history, will find a way to be remembered.

There were tons of school shootings before violent video games, as even a most basic amount of research will show you. Hundreds of them. You could also mention the Bath School Disaster of 1927, where a man set off bombs at a school and caused the third non-military related loss of life on U.S. soil (after 9/11 and Oklahoma City Bombings)

apparently most of them Steven. We've had school shootings in this country since the 1700s. The number of them has actually gone down since video games were introduced.

David Mora, histroy and facts have NO place in this discussion. How are we supossed to deflect the blame to video games if you keep spouting your truths?

How can you be so sure that Hitler didn't play violent video games? Just because the "history books" don't mention video games doesn't mean anything. History is written by the winners and the video game lobby.

Hitler's video game was called World War I.

Yeah, i saw that on the History Channel.

Hitler was obsessed with Space Invaders and Centipede. Played it 24 hours a day when he was a kid. The Space Invaders kept beating him, so he killed 6 million Jews.

This article is an excellent example of tricks the media plays on people. They put buzzwords at the beginning of articles (in this case "violent video games") and near the end they summarize important information in order to downplay it.

What I mean is even though it is true he played violent video games, his father was also involved in gang activity (at least previously). The guns all belonged to his dad, and were most likely used either for gang violence or for protection in case his family was ever attacked. The dad also taught his son how to shoot the gun, probably so he could protect himself if he was attacked.

Even though the dad was reformed it doesn't take back what his son had to live through while his father was part of the gang. Furthermore the dad turned his house into a refuge for ex-cons. Having an early teen immersed in nothing but stories of felonies the convicts have committed to land them in prison will have adverse side effects on his mental health.

There really isn't a point to even mentioning violent video games in this article. Frankly it's nothing short of offensive to insinuate that a person who made a conscious decision to do something only did it because some other party "corrupted their mind into thinking it," unless mind altering drugs are involved. Yes he did play video games, and yes those games shouldn't have been in his possession in the first place (he's a minor, ESRB rating are there for a reason), but we can all agree that there has never been incident where a cd or a cartridge was on the loose gunning people down. There was always a person behind the gun, pulling the trigger because they felt they had to.

In a nutshell, the violent video games are just frosting in this article and the pre-existing problems are the cake. The frosting is added to the cake to make it more appealing, but isn't necessary. You can't have cake without the cake, the frosting just makes the cake look better.

Oh and to end the bad parenting vs game developer being responsible debate, it's both of their fault. Parents you need to follow up on your kids and moniter what they're playing, period, it's your job as parents. Game developers need to start acting like they're publicly unaware of what's going on. The underlying themes of most of these debates is a lack of information. Make the ESRB ratings more well known, let people know your not some distant corporate entity only out to make money, try donating money to a charity to control guns. You don't have to apologize for making the games, but you should at least stand up for yourself when your games are being attacked.

Anything to not have to mention the medias roll in these shootings. The glorification of these episodes with 24/7 coverage couldn't possibly have any impact on these unstable minds...no...it's movies and games...

What "medias roll" is that? Their cinnamon roll?

What if it is the news that sets them off rather than movies and games? It would be like a endless loop with increasing frequency.

you mean kind of like we are seeing? The point being it's another factor like movies and video games that probably aren't good for an unstable person. But I've yet to see one media outlet point out that fact. At least real vultures own it!