Nearly half of eligible ex-service members who served in Iraq or Afghanistan are snubbing free, federal health care they earned in uniform because many harbor “huge mistrust” of the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs, contends a leading veterans advocacy group.
About 1.5 million men and women who served in those wars have since separated from the U.S. military. Among those eligible to access VA medical help, only 55 percent of veterans have done so through the third quarter of 2012, VA figures show.
“It’s because the VA has a branding problem, an image problem,” said Tom Tarantino, chief policy officer for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of American (IAVA), which has more than 200,000 members.
For many younger veterans, Tarantino said, the issue that has most sullied the VA’s reputation is the average time it takes to complete the disability-compensation claims submitted by wounded veterans. The average wait for that money has grown to 272.3 days, or about nine months, a 10-day increase from early December, according a federal website.
VA Secretary Eric Shinseki last year vowed to shrink the so-called “VA backlog” to 125 days by 2015 as the agency finishes transitioning to a digital processing system.
“Any time we ever hear about the VA, what do we hear? That the backlog is astronomically high. Or, that the VA is late in providing GI Bill (tuition) checks. It’s not an antagonistic relationship. It’s: ‘Oh, there goes the VA again; they still don’t have it together.’ Meanwhile, the VA is pathologically incapable of telling its own story,” said Tarantino, who uses a VA medical center. The former Army captain spent time in Iraq, earning the Bronze Star. “The problem is there is a huge mistrust of the VA.
“And what’s unsettling is the VA is an outstanding health care system. But they have not done a good job to explain to the American people what it is they do or offer,” Tarantino added. “This is business 101. You can have the greatest product in the world but if people don’t know about or trust your product, you have a bad product.”
Asked if Tarantino’s assessment is fair, a VA spokesman responded to NBC News with an email listing the agency’s latest work: bolstering mental-health staffers by 49 percent, opening 80 additional clinics, enticing clients through social media, and launching initiatives that allow ex-troops to chat with doctors online or talk with “peer-to-peer specialists” with combat experience.
“Although we have made many improvements, there is still work to do,” read a response emailed by Mark Ballesteros, a VA spokesman. He also cited the VA’s shift to “a new model of health care” called Patient Aligned Care Teams (PACT), a “patient-centered, team-based” and “data-driven” system.
Advanced tactics, modern buildings and clever acronyms aside, the VA faces a long, tough sell with its youngest audience, according to interviews with several post-9/11 veterans.
Pete Chinnici, 26, personifies the type of a public-relations damage VA officials must patch before forging deeper inroads within the Iraq and Afghanistan veteran communities.
After completing Marine Corps duty in Iraq from 2005 to 2007, Chinnici applied for VA health care in Phoenix. He’d been diagnosed with post-combat stress and hearing loss. But six months after stepping inside the pipeline, Chinnici said a VA employee told him his entire medical file was missing and that he’d need to start over.
“After having two friends who went through the VA process – it took one 9 months and the other almost a year (to gain entry) – and then being told they’d lost the paperwork, I never went back,” Chinnici said.
Three time zones east, another Marine, Alex Hill, visited the VA medical center in Brockton, Mass. after exiting Iraq in 2009, he said, “without a scratch.”
“The VA just wasn’t for me: the unmotivated staff members, the piles of bureaucracy,” said Hill, 26. “I also have objections with how they treat veterans by solving every problem they come across with a bottle of pills.”
The VA hopes to win back veterans like Hill and Chinnici, in part, via its 151 Facebook pages (which have more than 623,000 combined “likes”), its 581 posted YouTube videos, its 75 Twitter feeds, and its VAntage Point blog, which offers 500-plus articles authored by VA employees, veterans and family members, said VA spokesman Ballesteros.
“We’re reaching out to provide veterans with more options for care and more access to health care providers than ever,” Ballesteros wrote in the emailed statement. “Now patients can choose to come in for a face-to-face appointment with their doctor or avoid driving long distances, and instead interact with a provider through our (secure, online) telehealth programs.”
More than 380,000 veterans received “telehealth” services during the 2011 fiscal, he added.
But on the primary VA Facebook page that Ballesteros touted, there are many unhappy hints of the agency’s steep climb to win fresh hearts. On Jan. 19, Janet Woodworth Jennings posted there: “Hire VA doctors who actually care and know what they are doing.” Her comment was promptly “liked” by Luanne Pruesner-Van De Velde, who added: “I AGREE...Hire EMPLOYEES that care about Vets - Period!!!”
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I wish I could tell them what a great job the VA has done for my Dad.
He earned his veterans status by being a Vietnam vet. He's on a waiting list for a heart transplant. About 20 years ago my parents were having a bit of financial troubles (they were both laid off) and my Dad got sick, and had no health benefits. He stopped getting out of bed, eating, etc. My Mom told him, 'your going to the VA'. He was immediately diagnosed with heart failure (in fact he was within 24 hours of dying. A very scary thought to him and his family). The staff was excellent and he received fantastic care. They put him on the waiting list for a new heart and set him up with the doctor who'd perform the procedure, should he ever need it (which he has not, he's doing great and continues to do great). He's had nothing but phenomenal ongoing care since.
Since my parents fiances improved (my Dad has never worked again, but did get his disability social security) the did begin 'charging' for their services, but it's only a nominal fee that slides up and down with your ability to pay.
The only people I've ever heard say bad things about the VA are people who've never used it, or aren't vets themselves...
Angela
Thank your lucky stars , as your dad is a lucky man.
My true stories, and you will see what I meant. I wet to the VA for a regular check up. Found that I had an ulcer. The doctor put in a referral for a scope to be done from the top down and bottom up. That was a good ten years ago and I am still waiting. Went to the VA for an agent orange physical. The doctor found a melanoma at the base of my neck. Again a referral was put in. I am still waiting for that one also. Good thing I went to an outside doctor and had it removed , that was eight years ago. One vet I knew had a melanoma on his side. The VA ran test after test but did nothing. Finally they sent him and all his records to Sloane Kettering for testing and treatment. They ran the same tests as the VA. His results came back. They told him they could not help him as it was already to late to do anything. They gave him two more weeks to live. He died during that time. Why did that happen ??? Because the VA dragged it's feet and wasted way to much time His melanoma went into his body and destroyed his intestines. Lack of appointments, cancellation of appointments by the VA And lack of follow up by other VA doctors is a huge problem. Then they wounder why we vets don't like or trust them.
bob
I'm one of the eligible veterans who doesn't use the VA much because I just don't need it. I haven't "spurned" it. I use it for annual checkups occasionally because they have less restrictive timing requirements for preventative care than Tricare, but it can be annoying to have to wait a couple of months for an appointment so I go to a regular doctor most other times.
Just like Bob 1/28, I used the VA one time as a Vietnam and Desert Storm vet. The one time I went there they ran tests, never followed up with results. Since then my family physician has found numerous melenoma spots, diagnosed them and sent me for treatment to the specialist. In another instance, I tried to get an appointment for follow-up of original tests and was told it was a - 12 month wait for appointments.
This was in 1998 and I have not bothered with the VA. All my medical needs are diagnosed and treated by family physician or sent to a specialist for treatment with TRI-Care Prime.
I am technically a disabled vet (but hearing only). My health care at the Manchester, NH VA hospital has been excellent over the years. When I finally applied for disability benefits in 2011, so my hearing aids would be paid for, the VA office in Manchester processed it in only about two months.
With so many vets, and so many different offices, I am sure the service can vary widely, and even have mishaps with lost paperwork. To my fellow vets, if you need help, stick with it because it is not all gloom and doom as portrayed in the article.
Kevin
Hearing aids are lowing hanging fruit for the VA. A couple of visits and your done. New hearing aids in place and working. I am long over due for another set ( shame on me for being lazy ). It is the more complex and complicated medical issues we have, that they foot drag on.
As a tax-payer and veteran, I am glad that most of these people do not use big-government socialist health-care. Go to the private sector, much better out-comes, much less beauacracy. And if you can't afford health-care, well as a hard-core Christian/Libertarian, that is too bad. Like Jesus said,"Tough Sh!t, go die in a ditch". Remember, the private sector is ALWAYS better, never question this!
After reading some of these comments it is obvious that the article is right. VA has an image problem. It used to be terrible and I held off going there for years. The lack of funding and management made it the worse place for medical care.
In 2009 I heard they were better and applied for my benefits. I am here to tell you the NEW VA medical is not your fathers VA. I am a Vietnam Era Vet with a heart condition and am receiving better care than I received with BC/BS in the private industry. I receive the test I need and medications are mailed to my home. I pay a co-pay for medications & Doctor Visits but no Insurance Premium.
The only real issue I have experienced is having to drive a distance to get to the VA Hospital. The Clinic is nearby but not equipped for some procedures. However Transportation is provided for some Vets who have scheduled visits at the VA Hospital. In an Emergency , I have been told to use the local Private Hospital ER.
Don't let stories from 5,10, 15 years ago , scare you off. You earned that benefit and should use it.
Comment #1
It's very seldom negative comments result from positive outcomes of experiences at the VA. Glad your father is doing great.
Over the years, my conversations with veterans dealing with the VA are mostly on the negative side with complaints about the bureaucracy, expense of travel to receive their services and limitations on some services.
Even though I was in the Air Force reserves for 8 years, I am not considered a veteran and unqualified for any benefits.
It's for sure, the VA has not taken care of some veterans, over the years, who have fought and served our country with honor.
There is a history to this. Those draft-dodgers in Congress who sent our sons and daughters to war also refused to give them body or vehicle armor. The same folk, Bill Frist and Tom DeLay, also took away funding from the VA in 2003, just when it was needed most. When, after decades of worsening problems, I went to the VA, I was refused all five times, . . . and I even already had a claim number.
The VA is slowly recovering, but it had been so bungled they routinely refused all the claims they could for whatever reason, knowing that most of us would just go away, as I did initially.
I now get great treatment, although wait times are long for normal stuff. We are on watch for a retinal tear, but they will weld it when needed, and there is no waiting time for those kinds of things.
In all, it depends on where you live and how close you are to a good clinic or hospital. The ones in urban areas are much better, I think.
Tell your Congressman to fully-fund the VA.
Anglea LD.
I am a Veteran who gets free services from the VA. I get the best service everytime I go to the VA. The problem I have with the VA is the fees they charge me because I have saved my nickles and am now charged for all my Free VA benefits except the supplies and tests. In English I am charged for my Office visit and all Medications.
The problem come in when I look at what I am getting free in accordance with my initial agreement with the VA. I am charged for an office visit and the VA will not process the payment thru Medicare thus even though I have Medicare Insurance and a secondary Medical plan with Blue cross I STILL PAY the VA.
That seems wrong but when I ask the VA they say that Congress sets the rules. Medications are the same deal I pay the VA for my Medications $32 which are available from Walmart for $10. I am paying the VA 220% more for the same medication that is available from Walmart. I get the same answer from the VA and my local US Representitive when I question the charges. Congress sets the rules.
The VA medical system is wonderful but the means testing has some room for improvement. I thank the Lord that I don't have to use the VA system for any lingering problems. I only use the VA for a Yearly checkup which includes a very through Blood test at no charge. I have to pay out of pocket for the Office visit to get the results of my test but that is my decision.
Th VA Medical system is wonderful. My Father a WWII Vet used the system untill he passed away. I have many friends from the Korea War era who use the system and we all think it is great. We just need to change some of the rules about means testing.
PS. I understand why the Republicans changed the Rules for Free Medical service for Veterans but it is time to revist the orginal promises made to the Veterans.
What is wrong with the VA? Well, I could share my personal horror stories about the 18 months of fighting for my benefits, or I could tell you about the erroneous letter I recieved saying I had ALS after not have gone to the VA Clinic, or for that matter talk about the "you are too young to recieve disability benefits" comments from thier "pipeline specialists". I could even talk about how they made me jump through hoops to detail combat and provide statements from fellow soldiers to support those combat operations, or hell for that matter the attitude of the VA primary care physician I was assigned to, with the waiting in the exam room for over an hour before she even walked in. I could even point to the numerous times some "employee" lost a laptop and personal information from vets was comprimised. But I think I will just point to these NEWS trinkets that explains just is what is wrong with the VA and why they have an image and trust problem, for any of those VA folks that might be reading these replies.
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-06-30/us/va.hospital.hiv_1_hepatitis-hiv-dental?_s=PM:US - very interesting article, basically saying the cause was "healthcare providers NOT being trained how to sanitize instruments or thier own damned hands."
http://www.veteranstoday.com/2009/08/23/va-inadvertently-sent-letters-als-diagnosis-to-1200-veterans/
or
http://articles.latimes.com/2007/apr/04/local/me-veteran4
or
http://www.military1.com/air-force/article/109119-tuskegee-airman-fights-va-over-botched-eye-surgery
or
http://www.aboutlawsuits.com/prostate-cancer-treatment-problems-va-center-4529/
or
http://www.wfaa.com/news/investigates/Veterans-say-Dallas-V-A-Hospital-putting-lives-at-risk-179565781.html
or the HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of news stories headlining the INCOMPETENCE of our supposed Greatest Socialist Medical Benefit in the world... I think personally, I will just keep using Doctors that actually practice medicine and not practice malpractice.
There is an old joke that goes something like, "What do you call a doctor who can't get malpractice insurance?" The answer, "Captain." And what do you call that same Captain when they leave the military? The answer, "Your VA Healthcare "Professional"...
Yeah, I think I will stick to real doctors...
Mr. Bill Briggs.....do you serve in the military ? Uh oh.......
I highly suggest you do some "investigative research" on the Bennie's our "elite Congressional Representatives" get. And....you may want to find out whay 41 Obama White House staffers, and some of their aides, WILL NOT PAY THEIR BACK TAXES.
From my experience it depends on where you go just like everything else. I use the Omaha VA and other than occasional longs waits for appointments I get great service. Since I have insurance through my employer the VA bills my insurance then covers what isn't. Thats a good deal that save both of us money.
My experience with the VA has been wonderful. When I go see my doctor he sees me at the appointed time, most of the time it is within 5 minutes. Never in my life had I seen a private doctor so timely.
My advice to all service connected veterans is to set up an account because sooner or later you will need something and it could save you thousands of dollars.
And another thing about a reputation, it only takes a bout 1/100th of the cases to be horror stories to drive anyone away, if the cases are not almost unheard then a reputation of unreliable will be garnered
Oh, Angela. I am a vet. I have used the VA services, once. It was the worst quality of healthcare I have ever received.
Not wanting to burden my employer provided insurance policy or pay co-pays for an injury knee. I had damaged it years earlier, dislocating the knee cap to the back side of my knee, while I was onboard ship. It was not very stable after the injury, despite the self exercises the Navy gave me to do. So, fed up with it giving out on me occasionally, I went to the nearest VA clinic, taking a personal vacation day to drive the 3.5 hours for the appointment. I was, after a brief visit, told I was malingering since they could find nothing wrong with my knee.
After that abusive, humiliating, and incompetent care, upon returning home, I scheduled a visit at a local doctors office. I was diagnosed with knee problems that needed physical therapy. Taping was required during exercises to get the muscles to balance. I still have problems occasionally with that knee,, today I have water on it; yet, I see no reason to subject myself to further abuse at the VA.
The entire VA system eliminated in favor of a system that allows people to see doctors who do not work for the government.
Will the Watcher is right on the money with, "There is an old joke that goes something like, "What do you call a doctor who can't get malpractice insurance?" The answer, "Captain." And what do you call that same Captain when they leave the military? The answer, "Your VA Healthcare "Professional"..."
For many years my father, a veteran as well, has said, rather than be buried - he wants to be frozen in a block of clear plastic, with his middle finger giving the appropriate gesture, and left on the front porch of the VA. I cannot say I disagree with his frustration, not even one bit.
...and don't even get me started about my severe sinus problems that started while I was in the military OR the fact that I needed a tonsillectomy while I was in but did not get one until I was out. If you do, I might confess to wanting to join my father in his tongue-in-cheek last wish.
No Angela, if you have any integrity, you must never again say, "The only people I've ever heard say bad things about the VA are people who've never used it, or aren't vets themselves..."
David Taylor
Veteran, USAR/USN
I've read many of your stories and replies. And I feel for all of you who have suffered. Let me ask, do you think it's the medical care (or lack of) or the management of offices that is the problem, or both? I'm seeing from most of the replies that it's mostly a management problem. An office with good management will get your appointments in order, have your documents scanned and at the ready (with backups), and you should be seen without untimely delays. (We all have a few appointment delays, but not for months or years.)
Computers have been in medical offices for 25 to 30 years. If the VA is still using old paper files to track the millions of veterans, then they are without excuse. It's such a simple fix, and actually, not all that expensive. Their management should be directly responsible for the upkeep and tracking of the filing.
(I [office manager], with one helper, went through 30,000 medical files in one year, scanning, formatting, filing, and tracking. This was on top of our regular, daily work. In that year, we streamlined the entire process, got folks treated and where they needed to be, and got our medical clinic on a paying basis. That was 18 years ago, too. The fix for the VA? Hire a team of people to do what we did. In a year, most of it can be operational. I now work for a state agency that handles over one million document entries per month. Everything goes through the computer systems. I couldn't imagine having paper files just to track the entries, let alone the face-to-face encounters of our constituents. Of course, we have backups and server back ups, but they are minimal in cost. We can access virtually every document and file on an individual, without blinking an eye, and it can be done in seconds. Instant gratification at its finest!)
I saw an article a few months ago where one of the VA records storage buildings was on the verge of collapse because of the weight of the paper files stored there. I was amazed. Who stores on paper files anymore? Arlington National Cemetery can't keep track of who is buried where. Why? Because they won't take a laptop out onto the grounds and start doing entries. So many easy fixes, and not expensive ones either.
The VA needs to be introduced to the world of computers. They really are very useful machines that will help track their records.
I can't speak for the medical care that is received by the veterans. I would hope it would be the best in the world. Reality tells me otherwise, but that's a whole other ballgame. What would you veterans suggest to help solve this problem? or any other problems?
The VA has the right to bill your insurance carrier for services rendered and drugs given.
Now the VA has no right to bill you for SERVICE CONNECTED injury or sickness visits. All service connected stuff is free for the vet. Also the magic number for service connected disabilities is 30%. Hit that number and all is free. But they will still try to get you to pay a co-pay. Don't let them get away with it, fight for your rights. Tell them you are 30% or higher. It is in their records ( your percentage rating ). Don't be surprised if they say you are not. Stand up and fight them on that. You as well as they have that paper work to prove your claim.
hypocrisy1776 you know you are lying. Some of the private h.m.o.'s are far worse than the government's V.A.
Bob: in turn, private and public services bill the V.A./government. I was at a southern California hospital for an emergency room visit, and even though I was working under Workers' Comp at the time, and the health company was VERY on the ball and compliant and thorough, a year went by where they pestered me about emergency/hospital services. Then I learned that they used my Social Security number, tracked me down and billed to the V.A. for the extra/"unpaid" amount! Even though I supplied the billing companies with all the phone numbers, addresses and letters given to me by the WC health company, the hospital threw the "uncovered expenses" at the government.
Talk about a lack of ethics and follow-through.
Not that V.A. care is the best in the world, but at least it's there and I don't get billed for anything but a fraction of medication costs sometimes.
I so beg to differ... outstanding? No way in hell. The only time I have any decent care is in the women's center, but the men veterans obviously wouldn't know about that. My own GP does his best to answer my questions as fast as he possibly can, gives me a prescription for whatever is ailing me and shoves me out the door in less than 15 minutes. That's "outstanding care"?? I don't think so.
I served during the first Gulf war and have spent years getting a proper disability rating, with me lastly having to threaten them in order to get anything more than the absolute bare minimum.
The wait time for processing these disability claims is very long - however - they don't tell you that the majority of these claims they will send back with either no compensation/rating or only a 10% rating, and usually for the wrong medical issue. It literally took me way over 7 years to get what I have now, which I believe is correct for all of my medical problems incurred in the line of duty. If you're not satisfied with their initial rating, you have to re-file more paperwork and that will take years, and I haven't heard a word on them trying to lower the time frame on that.
The VA is absurd, but I have no money in which to get medical insurance on my own so I have to use it with all the problems I have. Yes, it's better than nothing and not all employees there are inadequate in their jobs. A few even care, but the majority couldn't give a crap about you or your problems.
Sure, but 45% of every veteran is claiming disability today so they will get money for the rest of their lives. These numbers have never been that high, not even when 100's of thousands were returning from actual combat in Viet Nam.
Dick: I question the random 45% that you use, but you're right on about the demand.
We've been in an OPEN PERIOD OF WAR since 1990. The V.A. is besieged as it is by veterans from all the wars. The recent influx is making things much harder and causing more delays in an already-stressed system.
I'm a vet, almost 60 years old, and I did not go to the VA until after a burst appendix, a few years back. I knew that I wasn't feeling well and tried to find out about receiving healthcare from them, by phone, and basically received the run-around. I lived too far away to just pop in. Needless to say I was responsible for paying that hospital stay at a private hospital[over $20,000]. I went and enrolled after that to insure that I was on their records. It is easy to feel invincible when young, and to believe that there is no need to sign up, it might save you alot of money in the future, if you sign up now! They have been there recently for 2 other surgeries, and I have to give them Kudos for their service and care! My VA is rated pretty good at: va-hospitals.find the best .com! Sign up now and put away the macho crap, because we don't know what is around the corner!
@Carl Lafoon, I asked my primary and he said that he would write me a prescription to use at wal-mart to save me money.He suggested that I bring a copy of their cheap meds , to see if there were any on there, that he was prescribing, or an alternative. I am also curious how your mean tests have you on co-pay and that you are on medicare. Are you still working?
I have several friends who use the VAs along the west coast. None of them like using them. They find the people uncaring and the service poor. My brother had surgery at a VA in the west and they left packing behind which caused some pretty serious complications. The VA near me here in the mid-west was slammed for improper sterilization practices that caused some illnesses.
Personally, I think the VA is more bureaucratic than helpful.
Hypocrisy, Really insightful post there. What scripture were you quoting there? Was that the gospel according to Humana?
John, he's quoting Republican Jesus. :P
David Taylor-4260617
I agree. I have heard many disturbing stories from my family members and friends that use to go to the VA for assistance. They did more harm than good for them and they never went back I was told.
I don't trust the government Fl shots either.
Not sure what's going on with it, but many people in my town that got the Flu shot are all sick. I tried it one time and got sick a few days later, that was years ago,and I don't think I'll ever get another one again either.
It smells too much like government genocide for the elderly and disabled, and four people in my town died this year after having their flu shots. I don't know if that's what caused it, but they all got pretty sick after getting their shots this year.
Sorry to read some of your horror stories, I've heard a lot of them before and I'm well aware of the VA's reputation from the past, but I've never met a single soul who's used them in the last couple of decades ever complain about their treatment. EVER.
However, the Long Beach, California VA (which is the one my Dad uses) is one of the most fantastic medical centers in the VA system. In fact, vets from all over the United States come to use the facilities because of it's awesome reputation. It has everything from a general medical practice to mental health care. If (and as I said before it 's a big 'IF') my father needs a heart transplant, his doctor is Stanford trained through the San Jose VA in Northern California.
Angela, I retired in 2007. My last year on active duty (2006) was spent entirely on convalescent leave as I had to have a complete lumbar spine fusion, L-1 -S1. During my military time, I had to have 3 knee scopes, 4 bone tilt and lifts. The VA - rated me at 50% disability initially, even though the "specialist" said the injuries (combat related) were significant enough to rate full disability, and told me at my "interview" that I would not recieve higher than 50% because of my AGE.
Now, since 2004, to present date, I have had 20 surgeries ALL service connected as a result of combat to put my happy ass back together. It took me 18 months to recieve my full disability in compliance with thier own VA regs. I even went to the doctors that evaluated me during my VA screening and obtained THIER notes, which mind you WERE IGNORED and Erroneously referrenced in the VA's initial disability findings. In another VA visit mind you, I went to see thier optomitrist as I was having blurred vision after taking the 9 or so prescriptions they were feeding me. I took my wife with me and she sat in the office as that "doctor" (quack) did his exam, which entailed me reading some letters on the wall while wearing my glasses. That was the entire exam. His diagnosis was MIGRANES. I came home, went to a REAL doctor, who did some blood tests, and looked at the prescriptions. Turns out, 3 of those medications were RECALLED as a result of causing GLAUCOMA and Retinal Deterrioration problems. I then went to a REAL optomitrist who did a thorough eye exam, and discovered my eye glasses were not what was prescribed (the free VA pair that I was using). No migranes, just a prescription lens that was NOT correct and the combination of those recalled medications that were causing damage to my eyesight.
I went back into see the VA primary care doctor (again another effing quack) and I sat in that exam room for 1 hour and 15 minutes before she waddled her ass in. Her initial comment wasn't sorry I was delayed or anything of that nature, no instead it was "let's make this quick, it's nearly 4". No exam, no what's ailing you, nothing. Just I see you are here for a follow up, here is a refill on the meds that have been recalled. After that, I stopped using the VA healthcare system. About a year later, I get a letter from the VA telling me that I have been diagnosed with Amyotrophic lateral sclerosis (ALS), often referred to as "Lou Gehrig's Disease," which understandably had me concerned. Again, I make an appointment to see a REAL DOCTOR carrying this letter. More blood tests, more exams, and guess what, NO ALS. I contact the VA to raise hell, and I am told not "Sorry for causing the concern, or the mistake, or anything of that nature", but instead I am told, "A bunch of those letters were erroneously sent out. Someone hit the wrong key". If that doesn't say INCOMPETENCE, MALPRACTICE, or LAW SUIT, nothing does.
I will NEVER trust the VA nor will I ever suggest a fellow combat vet subjects themselves to such horse@!$%# that has been my experience. The VA is an entity that I personally consider herpes - something to be avoided at all costs. And yes, I am pretty bitter, but I think I have MORE than enough reason to be.
Let us imagine for one moment the CHAOS if this alienated half of vets suddenly went in wanting their benefits. If the VA has a bad rap now the wait for benefits would double and all heck would break loose.
So what are we really complaining about here? If you're a vet go get your benefits. Wish I had some sort of health insurance . . . So do the forty million other americans who don't have benefits either.
The only thing "Patient-centered" about THEIR PACT model is the Patient being (and being forced to be) "THEIR" CENTRAL PAWN for the benefit and gain of THEIR, NOT THE PATIENT'S, PACT "TEAM"; first, last and ONLY!
These People have a heightened awareness of the CON trying to be put over on them and an obvious unwillingness to AGAIN be played for the know-nothing PAWN. It's the same "Model" in non-VA HealthCare, especially, and even worse for Mental non-Health. These BULLSH!T MIDDLEMEN-MONKEYWRENCHING-PILL-PUSHING-OR-ELSE MINION "Teams" are the worst and most "evidence-based", but ignored, detrimental aspect of purported to be Mental Health Care.
HAPPY PREZ DAY EVERYONE!
Zapper wrote in post 1.17, in part; "I've read many of your stories and replies. And I feel for all of you who have suffered. Let me ask, do you think it's the medical care (or lack of) or the management of offices that is the problem, or both?"
In my case medical care, both via 3 of 4 doctors (1 was especially bad)plus another office concerning medical care. This was Roseburg, Oregon.
There's a letter in my computer file indicating exactly why I don't trust the VA. The folks at the local VA clinic are fantastic, and I've agreed to have them in a monitoring capacity.
I see a civilian doctor and pass along the documents to the local clinic. Things are now in a monitoring status and all my meds are through the VA.
Quite a few years ago I was in Reno, NV., when an emergency occurred so my wife drove me to the VA hospital. I got great care.
So you're saying the returning vets now aren't seeing "actual combat"?
Fortunately for us my husband retired from State Government and was able to purchase insurance for me while the state paid medical insurance for his as a retired employee.
On the other hand his brother who had worked for years and years retired from the contract with the government working for the Savannah River Nuclear Plant. They paid nice retirement pay, but no health care and no medication care. He began to get really sick with an unknown diagnosis. My husband his brother arranged for him to get VA medical coverage for which he pays the full amount due. (hey he would have paid private insurance but it was not available -preexisting condition)
The DORN VA facility in Columbia SC not only diagnosed him, but treated and covered some of the most expensive medications. Mind you he had the money, just not the access due to his retirement on medical terms. Now he has a private doctor and Medicare covers that and the VA covers medicines. What some people fail to know is that a government agency (VA) cannot bill another government agency (medicare). He is in his late 70s now, has had some astronomic medical care for baseline VA care and outstanding referrals to other local VA facilities. When we go with him there are a lot of vets bi^ching and groaning about " being a vet and pore ol me can't get no care." I look around at the free standing hospital with many specialist clinics and wonder if they can't see how good it is.
No it's not and never will be what the Congress gets, and no it won't be what the president gets, but it is satisfactory care. One other thing, medications from private care physicians can be faxed to the VA to be filled. It's a rare med that isn't covered. Those you take to Walmart or other place if you want to. VA care is good. (at least what we need of it.)
Well Mr. Hill, I hate to tell you this but shoving pills down peoples throats happens with all medical professionals. Not just those working at the VA. It seems they have a pill for just about any ailment these days.
Thus, has it always been, thus, shall it always be.
Kevin, I also wear hearing aids which like you, I received in about 2 months. I currently receive 20% because of barrets (severe stage of acid reflux). I don't deal with the VA as far as the stomach problem is concerned as I go to my private doctor which is provided me, by tricare or here called Martins Point. My issue with the VA is when I went to apply they asked me to put everything and including them adding a few items onto my application. One that they added was PTSD because being in Iraq in 2007. They had me sit down, instead of talking the a doctor, completed a 500 question test about whether i loved my parents or enjoyed hurting animals. It was a garbage test as, it was animals or my parents that threw urine at me. But anyways, my biggest complaint is, if their going to push some disabilities on to folks then approve them then making us go through the years of red tape in appeals. Also since i am 20% i lose 20% of my retirement check just so the VA can pay it back to me. Don't understand how i earned my retirement but i lose it because the VA is paying me.
Sorry should of proof read, should say as it was "NOT" animals or my parents that through urine and crap at me, but the folks that we were there protecting.
My Uncle Charles --War War two Vet--born in Wauchula --Florida--when he died--the VA buried him in the State of Washington --he was should have been buried in Wauchula--Florida--Big money being made at the VA
While Amereicans were dying --the illegals took advantage--now 20,000,000 to feed--cloth--medical needs--
$113,000,000,00,000.00--this years cost of illegal immigration--that money should have went to the injured Vets-- but no Obama gave amnesty to 800,000 illegal Mexicans--so they could get jobs---preference over Veterans because they are claiming minority status-----THANKS OBAMA
I agree Alan Fischer. But I think that the government views some of those illegals as prospective soldiers and a significant part of the current army is made up of documented non-citizens.
Alan Fischer, you seem to think there were no illegal aliens before Obama. Lots of aliens were allowed in before. Wet foot-dry foot, was in effect for years before 2008. Living in Florida, I've been witness to immigration excesses for many years. The problem was here before, but according to a lot of people, it wasn't a problem until Obama was elected. Why didn't anybody raise a fuss when Bush had the VA system so messed up that even disabled vets with catastrophic brain injuries couldn't get above 30% disability, while John McCain has 100%?
gday67 You are right. Nowadays, it seems like most medical professionals are "pill happy."
I have a 100% disability rating with the VA. In addition to compensation, I could get all of my medical needs met through the nearest VAMC (VA Medical Center, or CBOC, (Community Based Outpatient Clinic.)
However, I also have private health insurance through my former employer, so my wife and I have that coverage, in addition to Medicare. I keep a very strict rule. If I have a VA service-connected health issue, I go to the VA. If it is not a VA issue, I use my private medical insurance, and that allows me a wide variety of resources.
Any treatment I have received at the VAMC or the CBOC has been top quality. If, by chance, I ever had something serious, the VA staff has a relationship with the University of Washington Medical School, where the teaching staff can visit with the VA docs to assist if necessary.
People like complaining about the VA in general. That is nothing new. This has been going on since at least the mid 1960s. Veterans who are waiting for VA disability benefits determination, need to realize there still is a very big backlog. However, the VA is working fast and furious to resolve the issue.
Everyone needs to realize that a new claim goes to the bottom of the pile, unless there is some serious medical issue to prioritize the claim. The VA has hired more claim reviewers, but, there are not enough of them to make much of a dent in the ever increasing caseload.
I completed my four-year enlistment with the U.S. Air Force in January 1966. I had a few medical issues that happened while I served. I did not know that I could file a claim with the VA until someone mentioned it to me in 1996. I applied and within a few months got a rating of 10% on one of the issues. Over the next few months and years, my disability rating gradually increased to 90%. In 2006, my rating went to 100%. So, it took me 10 years to get a “final determination.”
My advice would be to file and be patient. Inquire every three months to see how things are going. DO NOT get angry with any VA staff person. They are only doing their job, and doing the best they can with limited resources.
How many are like me and figure there are people out there with worse injuries and as long as I have insurance through work I will use that instead of taking an appointment away from someone who is in more need.
To wes714 - my fiance is just like you, so you are far from alone in that thinking. He was in Central America (as was my eldest brother) during the Iran Contra/hostage era, which still has not been classified as "War-time", though any soldier there during that time can tell you that it indeed was WAR. My fiance incurred some bodily & mental damages, but not near the extent that we see others have endured. He says he has all his limbs, while others don't. He feels like he is "giving up" his VA spot to others who need it much more. Unfortunately, with the way the system works this just isn't exactly true. The system is flawed and until it is fixed, many vets will just "soldier on" without the VA.
That's me. I don't see a need to add more load to an already stressed system when I have a reasonable alternative.
Well Done. Bravo Zulu.
I was the same way wes714. It took me 4 years after i left the military to file for disability. That was because everyone told me that i was deaf. Guess they were right because I have 80% loss in one ear and 65% in the other.
Sir,
As a military spouse I would ask you rethink the titling of your piece. It is very misleading. Perhaps "55% of Vet spurn VA due to long waits." Or something more telling. This title leads me to believe it malicious on the part of the vets. I rather enjoyed the limited material in the article, but think it gives the wrobg impression.
Welcome to another element of the cost of our stupid wars - tens of thousands young people permanently disabled.
I'm guessing you were educated in one of America's finest secular seminaries. We used to call them American Public Schools.
Too bad you can not refrain from enjoying all the benefits that thousands of American service men paid with their injuries and their lives.
Yes Max, why without the Iraq war, oil companies profits could have been lowered by millions! How can you live with yourself, knowing that the CEO's and shareholders would barely be scraping by, riding around in last years yachts. You should be ashamed of yourself!
Herald. I served in Europe during the height of Cold War. Spare me your patronizing crap.
The last truly justified war US participated in was the war with Japan during WW2. Anybody who tries to tell me that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan or Vietnam were for my own safety should have their head forcibly removed from their rear end. In early 1900s American soldiers were dying in Banana Wars, now they are dying in Oil Wars. Same con game.
My sister Delorse lost her husband Bobby---22-years old--a farm boy from Hardee County--Florida--killed in Viet Nam--left two boys behind for Delorse to raise--as she said so the immigrants from Viet Nam can come to America and open up nail shops--and they hate Americans--and the immigrants keep coming ---all drawing benefits--Now its Mexicans in Wauchula--all on welfare--Florida has great welfare benifits
Alan Fischer the Viet Namese immigrants are not hateful.
Well gee, could it also be that you have to go to a VA hospital? Many vets leave and want to get back into civilian society. That means get a job and see a regular doctor. Forget being in the military.
On top of that the VA has a reputation of not exactly having top notch medical talent.
I was an insider to the VA for many years as a supplier and saw all the problems the article states...I also saw hundreds of ex-military with NOTHING wrong getting benefits for PTSD etc....never saw that in my dads generation.
Unfortunately, 2little, there is a vast difference between today's generation and your dad's generation. Some really good, some really bad....
If you believe PTSD is nothing, or classifies as "nothing wrong", then you need to serve before you judge. It can be crippling, and probably the biggest problem facing vets when leaving the service. Going to a regular doc gets you looked at as if crazy. Vets can't afford private psychiatrists. That leaves the VA.
I myself never stepped foot in a VA hospital, because I didn't trust them.
I beg to differ with you about the physician "talent" at VA hospitals. Nearly every one of them is aligned with a teaching university hospital/medical center and in order to have privileges the physicians at the VA must have academic appointments (professors, etc). They teach, a lot of them work part time at both locations, and many of them are doing cutting edge research. I'm talking from experience as I work in a VA Medical Center that is located right across the street from a state university medical center, and I've worked here for 21 years so I know the medical doctors.
You are correct TFNJ, PTSD is crippling. However, it may be one of those things that people can play on which is what 2little was referring to I believe.
Then I guess medical/psyche degrees will have to be shown at the door to prove anyone here is qualified to consider anyone's condition "nothing". Until then lets not judge someone's pains and struggles.
A vet should not be on a 9 month waiting list for possible PTSD counceling.
I didn't say it was ejtim, I said that was the reputation. There is a mistrust, mainly because vets feel that the more people that are turned away, the less possible cases for the government to be liable for.
If they're taking 9+ months to process a claim, that's not just a branding problem. That's a REAL problem.
I went to college w/ a guy who served in Desert Storm. He loved the VA docs giving him a clean bill of health every time. "Peeing blood? That's natural, everyone pees blood, all the time." Every doc he saw after that was baffled by the conditions the VA missed and he had to explain that his Va docs never even examined him. He would speak w/ them for a few minutes and they would shuffle him out the door telling him he was fine.
I assume you have some reason to make that statement.
I go to the VA and my primary care Doctor is a Heart specialist who did not want to work 80 hours a week and enjoyed watching his kids grow up. He is great.
My Heart Specialist private sector operated on me twice decided to go into the VA. Actually his wife strongly suggest that she would rather have a husband than the Millions of dollars that comes with Private practice Heart Specialist. He is now a VA Heart Specialist.
I am not saying that the VA does not have bad Doctors because they do but the Private sector also has bad Doctors. We just don't go to those bad doctors.
ejtim I beg to differ with you. It is naive to beleive that every single person that holds a medical degree knows what they are doing.
My husband was eligible for "free benefits". That was after a 19 month waiting period that literally just ended in December, 2012. That is how long we had to wait to see someone, to evaluate if he was really "sick". They turned down one half of the claim. Said it was not service related. He died last Thursday. Gotta love the VA...
Wow, kat............I really am sorry. My best to you during this difficult times. And my thanks to both you and your husband for his service to our country.
My father lost an eye during WW 2 & I can remember, all during my childhood, him bashing the VA hospital system. At the same time, I have known people who were happy to go to the VA. I guess it depends on the person.
Clearly we are unable to do right by our veterans. Maybe it would just be best to disband the military to solve the problem from getting worse in the future.
All the positive PR in the world won't help when they get there and are treated like crap. I know some of the older vets that have been in the system for a long time are treated better and like their services. I also know a lot of younger ones who feel as though they're treated like a sheep or number and get the "why are you here, you look fine" treatment. Very sad
The incompetency of many VA personnel is unbelieveable. Many vets try to get services but are put through a ringer of forms, waiting and treatment by VA workers like second class citizens. The VA is out of touch and in need of serious reform in order to serve those individuals with professionalism that is required in a medical setting.
How about:
When discharged from service, if having served in a battle zone,the soldier or sailor receives an id card that entitles him or her to free lifetime medical care from any (US) licensed medical provider. For any and all needs, service related or not.
A thank you from a country grateful for service.
The Va should continue to exist, as an alternative to private services and as a specialist in service-related issues, in competition with private providers.
I find it interesting that THE MILITARY has all the latest weapon the Lazar's the Precision guided missiles the Smart bombs...TOP OF THE LINE KILLING MACHINES.....but the V.A. ...where are Service Men and Women go after they have SERVED THIS NATIONS INTEREST...for HELP....IS NOT EVEN DIGITAL YET....Kinda gives one the true picture of how are JOINT CHIEFS and TOP MILITARY brass look at the SOLDIER...the FLESH AND BLOOD...Our MILITARY Leader convent there Big War Ships there super fast planes there precision munitions...But they don't give a thought to the people that MAKE THOSE THING TOYS WORK....If they did the VA would be as efficient as a well run Aircraft Carrier...But it's not...and our Vets who have paid a high price for service already are asked again upon returning home....TO PAY AGAIN. and AGAIN and AGAIN....
How about taking some of the Billions from BIG TICKET Hardware purchases for our Military and put that Cash towards the VA.....and bring it up to speed..along side our WEAPONS OF WAR...So our Vets can get the help they need because they gave America what It needed when asked ..Some over and over and over again.......I love the SOLDIER I HATE THE MILITARY COMMANDERS and the JOINT CHIEFS... just don't trust em at all....and with good reason..just look at there attitude toward the AMERICAN SOLDIER......It Sucks...But they love there Latest Plane or War ships.... Like kids with Toys....They just discard what they don't find interesting to play with anymore.......
Too bad we can't just use tax money to send love notes to all those misunderstood people who would want to destroy America and expand their insane brand of tyranny.
Keep smoking that marijuana, Coloradoboy. The U.S. military has been fighting a long time for your freedom to be an ingrate passivist.
English language and world history isn't your strong suits Coloradoboy, if you so hate what America's military has secured for you, please move to some other country. I have enough cash in my pocket to get you a one way ticked to Syria! With your skill set however, there is a positive, you would be a prime candidate for sandwich board walker, lab rat or mop operator!
For the most part, the V.A. is digitized now. Paper files are still in use, but are actually seldom used now, as the same information has been on the computer system. As far as the storage of paper files, it is mandated that files must be kept for several decades.
Hey veterans, look at it this way. Prisoners get all the medical care they want or need. No questions asked. They can get free education too. The same is true for illegal occupants.
I don't think cash is the major problem, Colorado.............rather it is the ineptness of the US Government. This is the same government that is now going to control our health care in this country. Can't even manage the VA properly, how can anyone expect them to manage health care properly?
This is dangerous because many of these people have PTSD and don't know it. Possible next shooters.
Many of those 'shooters' have not been veterans.
I am a Viet Nam vet with heart problems. The VA is well organized but underfunded and thus short staffed and have equipment that is so outdated that it gives poor, inaccurate results. This leads to improper diagnosis. They need to be funded at a much higher level for both staffing and equipment.
I am tired of suffering the consequences of the inadequate funding.
If you are right, Randy, about inadequate funding it is because the money in Washington is mis-spent on too many pet projects, earmarks, government waste, overlapping spending, etc.
BTW, thanks for your service to this country during a really difficult war.
Whew!, Randy. I thought for a moment you were going to say you got so desperate that you actually had to trust God Almighty for your health and provision.
Well everyone knows that government workers are losers and the least qualified to do a job. Who would trust them knowing that?
The VA charges an arm and a leg for meds. I've got a 20% service-connected disability and only three prescriptions (for cheap generics). The VA is taking about $50 out of my little check every four months or so. I asked my Physician if he can just write me a script and I go to Wal*Mart to have them filled there, but he said NO!
Another time I was suffering from alcohol withdrawal syndrome, made it to the VA medical center and requested Librium to detox with. THe Doc said the only way I'm getting librium is if I sign up for their alcohol treatment program. I said no, so he sent me on my way with one little 25Mg pill of librium. I should have said 'yes,' because about 12 hours later I had a seizure in the parking lot (I was too ill to move past the parking lot so I hid myself and had to fry my nerves there...).
Rockin Morrockin, although he's full of vitiriol, isn't far off the mark; the people at Mission Valley clinic have no sense of customer service! They really are slow, inept, and apathetic. I get the sense that they are trained to be like this, or not trained at all.
Some of the people there are pleasant, competent, and happy to be employed, but they seem the exception rather than the rule.
I call the VA everyday just to fix a simple problem that would probably take 2 minutes at a civilian company to fix. NO ONE ever picks up the phone. NO ONE. The call just says "Your call is important to us" than it shuts off. No one gets services because no one is there to help us!
I am a Vietnam veteran. These younger veterans are used to a much faster moving world. It took me over 18 years - thats right - 18 years to finally get my disability rating. Do I have the patience of Job? Maybe. Maybe not. I have lost it with the VA many times and here I still am.
My best advice to these young men and women vets (and believe me, I feel their pain) is to be patient. I'm 100% PTSD/Depression. The VA has obviously made huge strides in the timeline thing to get you squared away in a more timely manner. Be patient and make it easier on yourselves. Please!
From a fellow combat veteran
I attempted for quite some time to get benefits from VA and was turned down for elegibility. I was clearly injured in the line of duty, my medical records state exactly how it happened, but since I don't visit the doctor regularly for pain medication, I have been refused. My rejection letter was a slap in the face, acknowledging my injuries sustained in service, and refusing to treat me for them, all in the same sentence. I understand the need to weed out some of the people looking for a free ride, but in a clear-cut case like mine, there is NO reason I should have been turned down. I didn't stub a toe behind a desk and scream for disability. My knees and shoulders have been destroyed, and I am still a fairly young man. I'd love to be able to play sports with my kids for a while, and choosing to serve in the Army (proudly) has impacted that. All I ask is to have a competent doctor take action and fix it. I don't want a hand-out, just what was promised to me when I joined.
I recommend trying the VFW or American Legion advocacy
http://www.vfw.org/Assistance/National-Veterans-Service/
http://www.legion.org/veteransbenefits/departmentofficers
Yes, do refile.
Also, David Taylor-4260617 even though you feel as you do, you should definitely refile too. Alot of things about the V.A. (and also the current hmo system) are disgusting. But it is your benefit that you earned.
First off nothing is perfect! You were taught not to back down from a fight and run. This what you are doing. Fight back and stand your ground. You and I have won your right for the services of the VA. The policy of our elected so called federal officals, did not take inaccount the vietnam vets. Then with no jobs and no health care of the forgotten vets they just let the Va slide into a I have a federal job and I do not care about the system. Things have really change. I have been a patient of the VA for twenty-five years and have seen the change that has came with the Vietnam vets. We had it worse then you. So we Stood our ground and started to fight the system. We also had to fight the non vet population which did not want to pay for our role of wearing the unifrom of the United States. Millons of were drafted and others ran. Think about it. We did and won our fight. Now it is up to you to stand your ground against a groverment that only looks like it cares on the out side but not on the inside,because they do not want to spend the money for what you have done as a member of us who has worn the uniform of the United States of America. Do not let those you would take the military Oath win.
One of my friends will not use his medical benefits for fear that he will be deemed unfit to serve. So when it comes to psychological ramifications from Afgan war he sees someone as an anonymous patient and pays cash out of pocket. The VA is not able to help as long as such diagnosis are a hinderance to ones career in the service.
Your friend should get his eligibility established at his local V.A. anyway, in case he ever changes his mind. They will not make him make appointments.
I served and never used any of the benifits I was eligible for.....why? Because I didn't NEED them!
Never used anything available from the VA, never used any of my education benifits, never used job training/assistance.
Its good there there but don't assume just because some choose not to use them, its because of distrust or lack of faith in the system.
Bear in mind, the VA is a GOVERNMENT program. Not much different than the Post office, Social Security office, Welfare office, Social Services (now Obamacare) or your State DMV. When was the last time anybody could say any of those institutions were administered in a way that made most people satisfied or were ran efficiently?
Of the one's you listed, the U.S. Post Office is the one that has the most employees working.