guy-2789881

I am surprised the Texas governor didnt have armed guards at the school.

yea really what's up with that????.....he's falling down on the job!!!

Rev J Wright

One more nail in the NRA's / Gun wingnuts high capacity round assault weapons coffin.

How so? Witnesses say 5 or 6 rounds were fired, and so far I haven't seen any mention of an assault rifle. Do you know something the rest of us don't?

Akash-531296--Then they should be out of a job.

Wet willy

Your confusing socialism with totalitarianism or fascism.

Anyone placing bets it was gang related violence?

Yeah, it's Armageddon ;-)

My condolences to anyone with children or grand children period. Tough times ahead.

By focusing on the symptom (shootings, gun control) we have lost sight of the root of the problem. The mentally deranged and the lack of treatment, interdiction, and public funding for mental health facilities. One time in this country we had facilities to house the dangerous mental cases. Not any longer. Now they close the facilities and give the patients a prescription and cut them loose onto the streets.

It's cheaper to medicate and hope that they actually keep taking their medication. It's cheaper to ignore a potential problem, to let the problem go untended until they do something violent and end up on our television screens or web news pages.

After the fact they either end up killing themselves or they end up in the criminal court system. From there they are either released back to the street (promise to take your meds?)or incarcerated in the equally dysfunctional prison system.

We've ignored the problem, turned a blind eye, refused responsibility for the sick who need care, and now again we're paying the price for our lack of diligence.

we don't have too many details yet, John. How does anybody know this person legally owned this weapon?

J Heron

OMG--you've obviously never purchased a gun in your life or have any idea of what the dealers go through to sell them. Of course they have to have inventory records! Good Lord. It's the guy in the back alley you have to worry about. He doesn't keep such good records.

Hey Rev. Wright, did you even read the article? Show me where it says an "assult rifle" was used.

ASLDS....I agree with you. Being from Houston and knowing where this campus of the college is located, I'd put my money down on the gang chip. If not gang, then drug related. I don't believe this shooting has anything to do with a mass murder attempt. If it had, the shooting would not have occurred in the hall way, it would have happened in one of the class rooms.

Canadian kids watch exactly the same movies and play exactly the same video games as American kids,and there are the same proportion of mentally ill people in Canada and in the Backward States of America,yet the per capita (i.e adjusting,for population difference) murder rate using guns in Canada is 8% of the per capita murder rate using guns in the Backward States of America - because Canada has strong gun laws, and 95% of the types of guns which are legal in the Backward are illegal in Canada (where the only legal use of a gun is hunting and target shooting). Americans should take a lesson fro the nations more advanced than the Backward States of America and repeal the insane and archaic by centuries so called "right"to own a gun and replace it with a real right, the universal right to health care regardless of income and with no out of pocket costs,as truly advanced nations have.

Where does the second amendment give the right to murder innocent people? Guns, according to the amendment must be well regulated, but we still have the right to bear arms.

joeybagofdonuts where did you get your bow and arrow information? When I searched for it I found a 25-year old MAN (not kid) who shot his FATHER with an arrow, but then STABBED him to death with a knife. The other two killed included himself, also with the knife. So, let's also be sure there are no steak or carving knives in any of our homes (but as it turns out, a bow and arrow would be OK - look at cupid, after all).

since Katrina, the inner-city gangs that went to Houston, Police chiefs in the area said, the New Orleans gangs made their gangs look like social workers, very violent gangs in all our big inner city's.

I really don't understand the minds of gun-lovers. Day after day, murder after murder, tragic incident after tragic incident. How many more children have to die before you will admit there is a gun problem in this country?

What a disgusting trend. Go out and take lives. Fun isn't it.

I think its funny that the state posting billboards for people to move there and "bring their guns" has a school shooting...

I never would have seen that coming... (end sarcasm)

Way to go Texas!!!

I'm just curious, what is the point of people needing high powered assault rifles? I just don't understand the need to have them. I think it would be fun to shoot one, but I also think it would be fun to fly a helicopter, but they don't let me do that! Not without a license anyway. We have to have a license to drive a car and I don't feel that my rights have been violated.

What is wrong with having to go through some requirements to be able to own a firearm? I sure as hell don't mind submitting to a background check, filling out some paperwork and waiting for my application to be rejected or accepted. There is absolutely no reason for me to own a high power assault rifle. As I stated before, I would love to shoot one, but I'm just going to have to pass on that dream for the betterment of our coutry, just like I won't be flying a helicopter anytime soon.

I find it a quite disrespectful that we are complaining over this. Our military's men and women give up their freedoms to work and fight for ours. Do you realize that if an enlisted person's lawn gets too long, they get fined. Did you realize that their floor boards are subject to inspection in their own house. Could you imagine the government dropping by on a Saturday night just to see if your floor boards in your house were clean enough to meet the governments requirements and to pull out a ruler and measure the length of your grass? Enlisted men and women deal with this daily! These things are requirements that they have agreed to follow and here we are bitching and moaning that we aren't allowed to shoot a really big gun or have to fill out an application to own one. Grow up people. I know that if my Dad or Grandpa could get a hold of you, he'd bend you over his knee and teach you a lesson!

I'm 35 years old and I have been taught the value of respecting authority, whether I agree or not. I appreciate everyones freedom to speak, but I think it has gone too far. You all are crying about something that is absolutely ridiculous and I am embarassed for you all. Too bad your Dad and Grandpa didn't teach you all some lessons.

I would like to see everyone quit their damn whining and show some appreciation for the sacrifices that our military has made for us to have the damn right to speak our mind on forums like this. Bottom line is, you don't need a high powered assault rifle. Leave that to the professionals that receive years of training and are badasses using them! You shouldn't have a problem with applying for the right to own a firearm. We do it for every other aspect in our life, even driving, so what's the big deal. Finally, shut your mouth and learn how to respect authority. It's embarassing to know that my friends and family are sacrificing their freedoms and lives to give you the freedom of speech and the right to bear arms, but if you don't like something, you cry about it. It's time you shut your mouth and shake the hand of a veteran or an enlisted man or woman and thank them for the opportunity to tell people what you think, no matter how jaded or opinionated your jibber jabber may be! I know I will today. Thank you enlisted men and women for giving me the opportunity to write this little comment on this forum. I happen to know I could be executed in other countries for doing this exact thing!

Itis - Really? All of these shootings are just so your guns can be taken away? Try telling that to the parents of 20 dead children in Newton, CT. Tell that to the three victims of todays shooting. Just stay in denial and hopefully one day you will not be effected like the victims today or the grieving parents in Newton.

You guys realize this wasn't done with an assault rifle, right?

It was two guys arguing and one pulled a gun.

Steve-

Actually, the campus is a "gun free zone" so anyone who ISN'T a criminal left them behind.

Dejesus-3020741

Houston, again with the Confederate states? Do you see how your side always take things to the extreme? We "worship" our guns and we are "pinheads". Care to back up your claims?

OK FORMER Confederate states where some people would still like to secede again. Happy? So, you admit that the problem with gun violence in big cities is largely due to the ease of transporting guns from states with lax gun laws, mostly in the FORMER Confederacy? If you admit it, then you're not a gun-worshiping pinhead. If you refuse to, then you are.

Just so everyone outside of Texas knows..

Houston - on of the bastions of Liberal Politics in the otherwise red state..

Wow ....

There seems to be a lot of "people killing people" now a days .....

RI Mom

Who said I was mad because you like to take out a full page ad when you post a comment? Why get mad over something as trivial as that?

If they are all busy shooting each other how did Obama get elected ?

Wet Willy wrote:

Meanwhile, in Chicago the body count is climbing faster than they can tally it. The best info currently available is that the first 10 days of this New Year had at least 18 confirmed street homicides. One can reasonably conclude that number to easily be more than double by today.
I'd wager that all of the guns used were of the illegal variety, something very plausible considering Chicago's highly restrictive gun laws.

So called "gun rights" types are very fond of pointing to Chicago's astronomical gun homicide rates and "highly restrictive gun laws" as evidence that gun control is ineffective. They either ignore or are ignorant of the fact that the Supreme Court struck down Chicago's handgun ban in 2010, and the handgun murder rate in Chicago has soared since then.

Rev J Wright

Hey Ryan, I don't care if they used a sling shot. We the people will ban high cap assault weapons.

Yep, that's the whole mindset right there. It was never about the people that lost lives or loved ones, it's 100% about taking someones rights away purely for control. 5 or 6 shots fired, y'all better jump in and ban low cap mags too, that 7 round limit is too high!!

RI mom speaks for the Government now...
NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE AWAY ALL YOUR GUNS... interesting wording, plus you left out YET or ALL AT ONCE. But yeah I'll go one step further and say NO ONE IS GOING TO TAKE ANY OF MY GUNS. I have every right to keep and bear every gun I own, and I will continue to do so, I refuse to be penalized because of the violence that is being made worse by the media who feels it is necessary to make homicidal maniacs famous.

Why isn't the left worked up about that? Mental health professionals have said repeatedly that putting this stuff in the news contributes to repeat violence, where are the cries to limit the press? Hmm I guess NBC, as a corporation has the same 1st amendment rights as a person, could it be? And why is the 1st, which experts in the field of mental illness say contributes to violence off limits?

According to the Lone Star College website, weapons are not allowed on the campus...

Apparently, someone didn't get the memo, or maybe just chose to BREAK THE LAW?

NikonShooter

I am a responsible gun owner thanks. I also am very mentally balanced...Thanks to my doctor.

Jessicalc

Texas has one of the most liberal counseled weapons laws in the nation and Gun free Zone doesn't always mean all guns. Look at the way the text on the law for the state is written.

SayWhat-3485804

your assuming I was making that statement as it pertains to just one segment of the population. Gang Bangers don't want to see gun control either. They want you to have your guns, so they can break into your house and take them, sell them on the street or use them in a crime.

I'm a responsible gun owner. I use trigger locks and a gun safe....If you do not then you are not being responsible. I'm also not that delusional to think that the black helicopters are going to come take my guns away.

The NFA of 1968 comfirms what has already been proposed & it is legal.

Marge, because that's her prime motivation for her posting..to piss other people off.

Never stop asking questions

Clearly, guns are NOT a problem in this country.

Guns are not the problem, idiots with guns are!

Who needs trigger locks when you have two hands??????

Its funny when you say your a gun owner but yet you don't support the second amendment, well in that case don't support your first amendment either!

Guns are not the problem, idiots with guns are!

The gun lobby has guaranteed that idiots will have guns, and if those idiots wish to have assault weapons they will have those too. If idiots want large capacity ammunition magazines, no problem.

The gun lobby has bullied and bribed and threatened to block any reasonable background check system so that if the idiots are unable to buy from a licensed gun dealer they can buy on line or buy from a so-called "responsible gun owner" without any problem.

Rights carry with them responsibilities. Freedom of speech has its limits. The 2nd Amendment is also intended to have limits. That is why the phrase "well-regulated" is part of that portion of the Bill of Rights. When people violate the limits of the First Amendment and use libelous speech, the victim has recourse. He can sue. Violations of the Second Amendment far too often end up with a dead victim.

Steve:

Actually, even CHL holders are not allowed to carry in "gun-free zones", at least in TX.

I keep waiting for the person to say something along the lines of, "Thank God I'm from Texas. We know better than to enact meaningless gun reform. We know how to We know how to handle guns down here."

I say this because it seems like there is always at least one of these people in articles relating to shooting or the suggestion of gun laws. Not every person in Texas is like this. But it seems that one person always boasts about how they do it so much better in Texas. Funny how I haven't really seen that here now that the shooting took place in Texas.

The truth is that stuff like this can and unfortunately often does happen everywhere in the United States whether that be Texas or somewhere else. And no, Texas does not handle it better than anywhere else. They handle it just as poorly as the rest of our country, but no worse.

And no, guns aren't the only thing we should look at. The truth is the entire nation needs to look at a variety of things, ranging from things like guns to other things like mental health. But we shouldn't just ignore guns either, as our gun laws are more lax than even things such as our laws on pharmacy medicine. And no, that does not mean get rid of the second amendment or all guns, and I would even keep most guns in play. But it does mean we need to look at it as a serious part of the discussion.

Rev J Wright Comment collapsed by the community

Hey Ryan, I don't care if they used a sling shot. We the people will ban high cap assault weapons

No WE wont!!!!

NikonShooter

Its funny when you say your a gun owner but yet you don't support the second amendment, well in that case don't support your first amendment either!

Are you whacked out on something or what? 67% of NRA members support a change, as do a majority of Americans, and Sport/Hunting groups.

You really should stop huffing super glue.

Supporting the 2nd amendment by no means give you or anyone the right to carry any weapon produced. It simply give us the right to bare arms.

Jessicalc

400 Texas Teachers Turn Out for Free Concealed Handgun License Course (Jan 3, 2013 article posted)

Not to be out done, a gun store in Texas has nearly doubled that number during a recent class.

On Saturday, December 30, Lone Star Handgun, located in San Antonio, offered free Concealed Handgun License (CHL) training to anyone who works with students at a school.

Would you like to retract your statement?

Heron, you point out that ATF directorship must now be appointed by the Senate, per requests/efforts of the NRA. This makes sense right? The government should be able to regulate guns quite effectively, however they choose to do it because they are the government, right? Much better than those who actually understand firearms, their functioning, their safe use, and the training of others in the same. (Don't tell me you think Diane Feinstein is an expert on the subject. Might as well ask a plumber about String Theory). Remind me please, which party, the "lunatic gun toters" or the "righteous crusaders of protection and safety" has been in the Senate for these past 6 years. Can't really blame the NRA for something the Dems asked for and don't act on. It's the reverse premise of blaming the gun and not the person. The Senate failing to act is somehow the fault of the very people that insisted they take the authority to act? I'd like to see an explanation for that, but I won't. I'm just clarifying a gaping chasm in your argument and I'm off to go back to working for a living. I won't reply. I won't try to fill a cup that had the bottom cut out of it. I don't give two cents about what you think because it's obviously a skill you gave up some time ago. I'm not a gun owner but I sure as hell respect and will help defend the right of others to own them. Whatever it comes to, I'm behind the Constitution. I'm behind America. Politics plays no part in it. I'm looking at it from a fairly unbiased point of view. I'm neither Conservative nor Liberal nor Libertarian nor any other party. I like seeing the big picture. Your misguided ramblings are part of it and why I don't like to directly participate. But seeing stuff like this, I do have to step in. Have a day.

#1.39 John Murphy

Americans should take a lesson fro the nations more advanced than the Backward States of America and repeal the insane and archaic by centuries so called "right"to own a gun and replace it with a real right, the universal right to health care regardless of income and with no out of pocket costs,as truly advanced nations have.

What??! John Murphy, please stay in Canada where you belong. The "Backward States of America" will go on keeping you safe. Health care with no out of pocket costs.... for whom? I assure you someone, me, will be paying for these health care costs. My employer has already informed me that my monthly insurance cost is going up because of universal health care cost.

I think I will keep my right to bear arms. If people believe America is so terrible and disagree with the laws that have been established for 100's of years, they should go live in Canada with you. I'm pretty content in my pursuit of happiness.

michigan northener

oh snap its just blacks shooting blacks. that doesn't support the Liberal agenda

If I were an admin, I'd IP ban you so hard. I can't believe msn tolerates this crap.

Steve:

According to many CHL instructors, you can carry it in the parking lot, but have to leave it in your locked vehicle if the school has a sign posted prohibiting firearms.

Page 25 of the txdps website, under CHL. GC 411.204. "Notice Required On Certain Premises".

Wet Willy Comment collapsed by the community

Meanwhile, in Chicago the body count is climbing faster than they can tally it. The best info currently available is that the first 10 days of this New Year had at least 18 confirmed street homicides. One can reasonably conclude that number to easily be more than double by today.
I'd wager that all of the guns used were of the illegal variety, something very plausible considering Chicago's highly restrictive gun laws.

Yet the anti-gun dullards would clamor for more gun control, knowing full well that gun control doesn't control guns at all but is intended to control people, a goal of socialism.

By your reasoning then, we should have no laws because someone will ignore it anyways. The laws are made for law abiding citizens, the ones that break the law will be charged by the laws and spend more time in jail then would have if there was no law. You can't make people follow the laws, but you can sure put them away for a longer period of time if they break the laws. WAKE UP.

michigan northener

oh snap its just blacks shooting blacks. that doesn't support the Liberal agenda

If I were an admin, I'd IP ban you so hard. I can't believe msn tolerates this crap.

Why? Because its true?

More than 500 blacks were murdered in Chicago in 2012 by firearms

(Ya know Chicago? The place Obama made wonderful?)

..................still waiting for CNN, MSNBC, ABC and CBS to do their "in depth investigative" reporting on the great success of the strict gun control policies and the "gun free school zones"....

By your reasoning then, we should have no laws because someone will ignore it anyways.

HEY BRENDA! I've got a great idea! Lets make drugs illegal!

That way criminals won't get them...

Am I a genius or what!!!

I want to know where all the people who scream about needing guns for protection are when these shootings happen. Funny thing isn't it, not one single billy bad ass is ever around to do any "protecting".

Several federal officials have said it was gang-related, but the exact nature of the relationship remained unclear.

Another black guy shoots another black guy........happens every day!!

It's Texas.

What did you expect?

Shootings and killings happen every day there, and has been going on since before David Bowie and Davy Crockett died to defend slavery against the Mexican army. That the shootings happened at a school is what makes it news.

Gun violence should be declared as domestic terrorism.

Gun violence is domestic terrorism.

Quoting the article:

"According to the Lone Star College website, weapons are not allowed on the campus. The school offers firearm safety courses through its Second Amendment Academy."

A "Second Amendment Academy"? Hmm, I wonder if this Texas community college also has a FIRST Amendment Academy?

Everyone knows the easy access to guns is why we have a level of gun violence,which is the disgrace of the western world. But many people refuse to admit the truth. Quite a few of them always post on these stories. They don't care how many innocent people die,as long as they get to have their mankiller toys.

They know the government doesn't really want to ban guns. Even if the government got there dream list.Hunters would still have shotguns,and rifles to hunt. Guns would still be available to people for home protection. What would be controlled,would be the availability of nuts to easily get guns,and large capacity magazines and assault rifles. But if you listened to the gun-nuts that post on these sites,you'd think hordes of government agents were going to go neighborhood by neighborhood seizing all their guns and then lining them up and shooting them.

These people are stupid,but their misguided ideas are dangerous. They attract the tinfoil crowd,a growing group,fed Republican anti-government lies for over 30 years now. Ideas of "conspiracies",that when I was growing up were only found in mental asylums,is now,thanks to right-wing anti-government propaganda spouted by Republicans and Libertarians,becoming mainstream on the right. I feel like we are reliving the end of the 1850's,which led straight to the lunacy of the civil war.

The hatred of the President,and the government on the right,is so insane today,that it wouldn't surprise me if there was an armed revolt by the right-wing. They would be crushed of course,but I think they may try it. Some of them truly believe that,in today's world,they can fight their own military,and win.What they seem to not understand is that most Americans are loyal to our democratic system,and an armed revolt by the right-wing would be opposed and put down by our military and loyal citizens.

THOSE WHO REFUSE TO LEARN FROM HISTORY ARE CONDEMNED TO REPEAT IT!

December 29, 2012 marks the 122nd Anniversary of the murder of 297 Sioux

Indians at Wounded Knee Creek on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South

Dakota. These 297 people, in their winter camp, were murdered by federal

agents and members of the 7th Cavalry who had come to confiscate their

firearms "for their own safety and protection". The slaughter began AFTER

the majority of the Sioux had peacefully turned in their firearms. When the

final round had flown, of the 297 dead or dying, two thirds (200) were women

and children. Around 40 members of the 7th Cavalry were killed, over half cut down by

friendly fire from the Hotchkiss guns of their overzealous comrades-in-arms.

Twenty members of the 7th Cavalry were deemed "National Heros" and awarded

the Medal of Honor for their acts of cowardice.

We do not hear of Wounded Knee today. It is not mentioned in our history

classes or books. What little does exist about Wounded Knee is normally the

sanitized "Official Government Explanation" or the historically and

factually inaccurate depictions of the events leading up to the massacre on

the movie screen.

Wounded Knee was among the first federally backed gun confiscation attempts

in United States history. It ended in the senseless murder of 297 people.

Before you jump on the emotionally charged bandwagon for gun-control, take a

moment to reflect on the real purpose of the Second Amendment- The right of

the people to take up arms in defense of themselves, their families, and

property in the face of invading armies or an oppressive government. The

argument that the Second Amendment only applies to hunting and target

shooting is asinine. When the United States Constitution was drafted

"hunting" was an everyday chore carried out by men and women to put meat on

the table each night, and "target shooting" was an unheard of concept,

musket balls were a precious commodity in the wilds of early America , and

were certainly not wasted "target shooting". The Second Amendment was

written by people who fled oppressive and tyrannical regimes in Europe , and

refers to the right of American citizens to be armed for defense purposes

should such tyranny rise in the United States .

As time goes on the average citizen in the United States continues to lose

personal freedom or "liberty". Far too many times unjust bills are passed

and signed into law under the guise of "for your safety" or "for

protection". The Patriot Act signed into law by G.W. Bush, then expanded and

continued by Barack Obama is just one of many examples of American citizens

being stripped of their rights and privacy for "safety". Now, the Right to

Keep and Bear Arms is on the table, and will, most likely be taken away for

"our safety".

Before any American citizen blindly accepts whatever new firearms

legislation that is about to be doled out, they should stop and think about

something for just one minute-

Evil does exist in our world. It always has and always will. Throughout

history evil people have committed evil acts. In the Bible one of the first

stories is that of Cain killing Abel. We can not legislate "evil" into

extinction. Good people will abide by the law, defective people will always find a way around it.

And another thought Evil exists all around us, but looking back at the

historical record of the past 200 years across the globe, where is "evil"

and "malevolence" most often found? In the hands of those with the power-

governments. Those greatest human tragedies on record and the largest loss of

innocent human life can be attributed to governments. Who do governments

target? "Scapegoats" and "enemies" within their own borders. but only after

they have been disarmed to the point where they are no longer a threat. Ask

any Native American, and they will tell you it was inferior technology and

lack of arms that contributed to their demise. Ask any Armenian why it was

so easy for the Turks to exterminate millions of them, and they will answer

"We were disarmed before it happened". Ask any Jew what Hitler's first step

prior to the mass murders of the Holocaust was- confiscation of firearms

from the people.

Wounded Knee is the prime example of why the Second Amendment exists, and

why we shouldn't be in such a hurry to surrender our Right to Bear Arms.

Without the Second Amendment we have no right to defend ourselves and our

Families

Governments have killed over 170 Million of their own people just in the 20th century alone. Don't believe it?

Watch this movie. http://www.paulstramer.net/2013/01/innocents-betrayed-history-of-gun.html

They always start by making some so called "law" putting restrictions on, and then registering and confiscating firearms.

In America there is NO valid gun control law. Those so called laws are null and void from their inception.

See the supreme court rulings in this article. http://www.paulstramer.net/2012/11/what-is-really-law-and-what-is-not-law.html

The GYPSY!

By your reasoning then, we should have no laws because someone will ignore it anyways.

HEY BRENDA! I've got a great idea! Lets make drugs illegal!

That way criminals won't get them...

Am I a genius or what!!!

Standard Republican, only read one sentence and respond to only that part. If you actually read the whole thing you would have the answer to you own question. Republicans, learn to read.

So, you admit that the problem with gun violence in big cities is largely due to the ease of transporting guns from states with lax gun laws, mostly in the FORMER Confederacy

Where did I admit to anything, genius?? Here, I will- Is it easy to transport a firearm? Yes. Is it legal to transport a firearm freely to anywhere one wants? NO. A person has to know the gun laws of the state he or she is visiting or moving to, prior to going there. Ignorance of a law is never accepted as a defense against it. And now for the million dollar question... Do CRIMINALS care about gun laws of ANY state? Nope. Are there straw purchasers? Not as many as you anti-gunners think.

To those who like collapsing my comments, get out of the kitchen.

ElkMeadow

It's Texas.

What did you expect?

Shootings and killings happen every day there, and has been going on since before David Bowie

HUH?

Was this before his Ziggy Stardust tour?

Standard Democrat? Or Liberal? Lump all Republicans together, assume they all have exactly the same views on everything, and insult them because you think you're some sort of a higher being. Impressive.

If we could just collapse all of Steve's comments on his usual rail against guns and proclaiming he is a gun owner. Had the left just acted upon the NRA's offer to put armed guards in schools as it is apparent the deranged have honed in on the Media giving them stardom this would not have happened. At least they offered a real and valid solution. How long will you on the left continue focusing on the incidents and not the root cause. You wouldn't make it in a real job with this lack of root cause analysis. Is it the tool or is it the behavior? The tools are and will be available, always and forever, focus on the behavior.

See, this sorta thing only happens in them blue liberal states where....wait.

What??! John Murphy, please stay in Canada where you belong. The "Backward States of America" will go on keeping you safe. Health care with no out of pocket costs.... for whom? I assure you someone, me, will be paying for these health care costs. My employer has already informed me that my monthly insurance cost is going up because of universal health care cost.

And you always believe everything your employer tells you, huh?

1774 England banned the import of firearms to America

1775 England started to take all firearms from Americans

1776... Well you all know what happened then.

A decade later the 1st amendment was written and the 2nd amendment was put in place to secure the 1st.

Yep, that's the whole mindset right there. It was never about the people that lost lives or loved ones, it's 100% about taking someones rights away purely for control.

Yes, it's purely about control. We liberals have no hearts, so we are incapable of being shocked by the constant gun-deaths, over and over again. In fact, every time we see gun violence on the news we chuckle and rub our hands together gleefully about how we are going to be restricting your rights.

Every year, 10 times as many people die due to gun violence as died during 9/11.

We don't care about the children, it has nothing to do with decency, or wanting to live in a safe neighborhood or being sick and tired of the constant death. It's all about suppressing YOU.

Without the Second Amendment we have no right to defend ourselves and our Families. Governments have killed over 170 Million of their own people just in the 20th century alone. Don't believe it?

Watch this movie. http://www.paulstramer.net/2013/01/innocents-betrayed-history-of-gun.html

They always start by making some so called "law" putting restrictions on, and then registering and confiscating firearms.

WITH the 2nd Amendment, you have no ability to defend yourself and your families. When the 2nd Amendment was written, the biggest weapon was the cannon. Today, the US military has weapons that can vaporize you and your guns from a thousand miles away.

The gun industry has done a very good job of convincing you that somehow your guns can save you if the US government can come for you. They are lying. Your guns are useless. The only thing holding a gun does is make you a bigger target.

Your guns cannot protect you. What CAN and DOES protect you is constant oversight of our government and making sure that they never achieve over-arching power and laws. And yet, liberals are maligned for trying to do exactly that - the ACLU is a much-hated organization, exactly because it speaks out AGAINST government overreach.

Had the left just acted upon the NRA's offer to put armed guards in schools as it is apparent the deranged have honed in on the Media giving them stardom this would not have happened.

It is apparent only to an idiot. Putting armed guards in schools means that the armed guards will be taken out first.

What IS apparent to anyone who is not an idiot is that a gun cannot stop a bullet. All it can do is put a bullet in someone else - who might be coming at you. Do we really want to turn our schools into zones of urban warfare? Where does it stop?

Byron... You fail to realize that those whom pull the triggers of those "Government Weapons" have every right to preserve their own rights first.

1774 England banned the import of firearms to America

1775 England started to take all firearms from Americans

1776... Well you all know what happened then.

A decade later the 1st amendment was written and the 2nd amendment was put in place to secure the 1st.

2013: Weaponry advances to the point that any body of armed resistance fighters which does not have a few thousand thermonuclear devices is no match for the US military machine.

Byron... You fail to realize that those whom pull the triggers of those "Government Weapons" have every right to preserve their own rights first.

You fail to realize that if they are not going to be pulling these triggers, then we don't need ANY weapons at all against them.

And lets be clear Houston is the arm pit of Texas... This was gang related and it should be clear the trigger man did not legally own the weapon he used. And I'm 100% sure this clown was not a member of the NRA. A crazy White GOP extreemist. It was a law breaking democrap just like the shooters in the TOP 5 gun rampages in history.

And I'm 100% sure this clown was not a member of the NRA.

The majority of NRA members disagree with the NRA's positions on many forms of gun control.

It was a law breaking democrap just like the shooters in the TOP 5 gun rampages in history.

So you are saying that it's only Democrats who go around shooting people? Or what exactly are you saying?

do you REALLY think the members of the u.s. armed forces would turn thier weapons on thier own families,and friends? and if that was the case well ... we should have had a rwvolution a long time ago!

Lets check facts. (1)Ft. hood shooter=registered democrat (2)Columbine shooter, too young to vote but both families were Democrats and progressive liberals (3) Virginia Tech shooter, Registered democrat (4) Colorado theater shooter, registered democrat former Obama campaign worker (5) Connecticut school shooter, registered democrat and hated Christians. The common thread, all progressive liberals. This is proof that they should have gun controls on Liberals.

GetMeOutAlive42

You failed to mention anything about the NFA. All of the sudden...I hardly think so. Arms and weapons have been controlled (by type) by our government from the beginning. Look at how & why the NRA was started.

Stop Funding Illegals

Your one of those nut wings.....You think your the only one important, & your opinion is the only right one....Anyone that has a factual bases for going against the tripe you write you don't want to hear from.....Get use to seeing me on these forums.

do you REALLY think the members of the u.s. armed forces would turn thier weapons on thier own families,and friends? and if that was the case well ... we should have had a rwvolution a long time ago!

Then we don't need to defend against them, do we? What do you need the guns for, if the government is not going to come for you?

Byron you have a lot to say but seem to be saying nothing other than parroted personal opinions. You simply don't agree with others opinions and don't really care about their rights because they aren't rights that are important to you. Again had the government taken LaPierres suggestion this wouldn't of happened, instead the left has deaths on it's hands for once again waffling on a real solution and instead going for control instead of a solution. Total lack of root cause analysis and focus on an object... that a way.

Lets check facts. (1)Ft. hood shooter=registered democrat (2)Columbine shooter, too young to vote but both families were Democrats and progressive liberals (3) Virginia Tech shooter, Registered democrat (4) Colorado theater shooter, registered democrat former Obama campaign worker (5) Connecticut school shooter, registered democrat and hated Christians.

Nice bunch of lies you got there. Can you name one of these people?

Here: I will give you one for free: The Newton shooter, Adam Lanza, got his guns from his mother, who was a gun enthusiast who legally obtained her guns. That's not EXACTLY the profile of a liberal.

The common thread, all progressive liberals. This is proof that they should have gun controls on Liberals.

And THAT pretty much explains the common theme - your hatred for all liberals.

Byron you have a lot to say but seem to be saying nothing other than parroted personal opinions. You simply don't agree with others opinions and don't really care about their rights because they aren't rights that are important to you.

Being alive is an important right, wouldn't you say? How about the rights of 10,000 people, every year, who die due to gun violence. Do they mean anything to you?

Again had the government taken LaPierres suggestion this wouldn't of happened, instead the left has deaths on it's hands for once again waffling on a real solution and instead going for control instead of a solution. Total lack of root cause analysis and focus on an object... that a way.

You didn't answer my question. Where does it stop, then? So we turn our schools in urban warfare zones and our children grow up with PTSD because we send them to school wearing flak jackets. Where does it stop?

If more guns were the answer, America would already be the safest place on earth. As it is, we are the only industrialized country with this level of gun violence.

Jessicalc

So that is why the company from Utah is in Texas showing teachers how to get their CHL....So they can have a gun in the parking lot...locked in a car. Sure the CHL cert instructors will tell you this. They don't want to get sued.

The parking lot is considered school property and thus would fall under the "Gun Free Zone" rules.

These nut jobs are showing teachers how to get around the Zone law, and they are using the law to do it or they wouldn't be there making money. They certainly are not there out of the kindness of their hearts.

It has to do with get as many teachers armed, let someone file a suit then have this play out in the courts to challenge the Zone laws & money.

Byron why is it then than 30 years ago this wasn't the problem and guns were just as predominant. Maybe this has more to do with child welfare services deciding kids couldn't be spanked and further telling parents how they could and could not raise their children. Possibly the amount of single parent homes something has changed but it certainly isn't the amount of guns and legal law abiding gun owners that is causing this.

Where does it stop and turning our schools into urban warfare zones well that would not be law abiding citizens doing this now would it. So I ask you if the tool used here were a car or a propane tank or knives would you be so adamant about banning them? You simply aren't looking at this from a constructive problem solving angle you are purely after a device and the only people who would be affected by your scam would be those who would have never been a problem anyway.

I know from there it goes to well it would be less guns available, sure you may be affecting the overall death toll in some small way but again you focus on the tool and not the root cause. How about your right to free speech is taken away because if the media wasn't making this type of crime hypersensitive half of these likely wouldn't have happened. I don't see anyone clamoring to stop freedom of speech. People have died for these rights and will continue to do so, we simply have to find the correct way of stemming this and focusing on the law abiding is not that way, sorry.

Steve who exactly is it that will hear no-ones opinion (I say you)? You seem to offer a one dimensional solution that even your own party knows is not the answer. Had people like you been listened to when America was in the midst of forming as a country we would still be an annex of Europe. I know that is what you seek to see happen again but it would be much easier if you just moved there. The 2nd amendment is here to stay so you should just continue your little party from last nights inauguration and take your wins one step at a time cause this isn't one your likely to win in your lifetime, there are more rational solutions that don't violate the rights that you could care less about. Maybe you will see the light when they take away your freedom of speech.... aww I doubt it.

If guns are so bad why is it that the group of kids and people doing these hanious crimes don't seem to fall into the group that use to play with cap guns and toy pistols and learn to hunt and use guns in their early teens or earlier.... It's not guns that are the problem but then you won't have any of that right.

Stop Funding Illegals

So what I hear you saying is you agree with the President in his signing of the Executive order....In it contained mental health, school guards if they want, asks the CDC to look into violent games and such.

But you see that as an infringement on your 2nd amendment rights.....Am I right?

@getmeoutalive - Wounded Knee really had nothing to do with gun control. It was, in the eyes of our nation at the time, merely a way to control "vermin." The government and it's "white" citizens wanted all of the land the native Americans had been deeded (and then stolen from them time after time) and wounded Knee was simply genocide, an easy way to get what someone else had that they wanted. Of course it was easier to kill them when they didn't have guns, like shooting fish in a barrel. Whether they would have given up their guns or not, they would have been killed. Indians weren't even thought of as citizens, they were just a problem to be dealt with. your post was well written and I understand where you were trying to go with it but it really doesn't pan out as gun control gone wrong. It was a slaughter of the original Americans, a slaughter that would have happened if they were armed or not. Remember your American history - Native Americans were treated with no respect and given no dignity and were wantonly killed for sport.

Byron Raum, cant you handle the facts, you're typical of most liberals, full of sheeet.

Someotherguy 1.68

Either you're really stupid or you think everyone else is. I wonder which it is.

Yes, the SCOTUS ruled against Chicago's highly restrictive handgun ban but Chicago's ruling class has seen to it that a de facto ban still remains; consequently, gun purchases are as difficult as ever. In any event, Chicago's homicide rate for the last 5 years shows no soaring murder rate, except perhaps in your twisted liberal mind.

2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 506

No Steve I don't object to any of that, my state already does background checks and those are safeguards. What I am against is any limitations further than what are already more restrictive than need be on magazines, ammo, and things of this nature. We are not talking about minutia stuff we are talking about major changes such as those Feinstien and Cuomo are trying to or have already passed. Is the war on drugs working? How about prohibition did that work? This is another venture down the same path of wasting money on useless laws that never worked.

Wet Willy Thanks for debunking some of the lies that spill from those with an agenda rather than a clear though process on how to affect a solution to the problem.

Stop Funding Illegals

Um hate to correct you but the mass shooting in Newtown the mother had taken her son out shooting many times. As well as the many other younger adults, they had experience with and could readily get firearms out of their homes and did so. Please fact check before you make a statement like

If guns are so bad why is it that the group of kids and people doing these hanious crimes don't seem to fall into the group that use to play with cap guns and toy pistols and learn to hunt and use guns in their early teens or earlier

You have a hard time admitting when your wrong...I know...but I forgive you, it must be hard looking at the world from the inside of a bubble.

It's hard for someone like yourself to go up against 86% of Americans that say it's time for a change in our gun laws. I suggest you get your bunker ready and have enough things in there to get you threw your pitty party.

Like it or not....things are going to change....You can be part of the solution or apart from it...Your choice.

OK so pick this one selectively, the mother took him out shooting yet was in fear for her safety from her son, this would be the part where having a clue comes in. Did she have her guns in a safe with only an adult knowing the combination.. I don't think I saw anywhere that he was a hunter or played with cap guns, do they even make those anymore. You take my point and what I was trying to say and twist it to suit your cause. Your 86% number is something you must of gotten from Rachel Maddow but anyway I am not going to argue the point when it is on top of your head. I have no trouble admitting wrong nor do I think my way is the only way, I do however say your way is the wrong way. Never trust the left wing to provide statistics for a cause they have a dog in the fight for you should probably go elsewhere to find your facts those aint it. My "bunker" as you call it is ready (I call it a collection), actually I am selling off thanks to Obama making it financially benefitial for me to do so, I have more than enough... is that ok with you? I bet not that makes me some kind of radical just waiting to pounce I bet. My collecting is a phobia a fear of the government or some other left twisted notion according to your statements. Not an investment at all (it is exactly that an investment for me and my kids).. funny my investment is paying off nicely right now, Thanks Obama... But in the end you are incorrect you will not be taking our guns anytime soon.... any wagers on that count me in.

I am sure something will come along eventually that you hold near and dear and when the left goes after it we will see who screams foul or do you just live in a condo in the city and never leave your bubble. Don't you people have enough going on to live your own life according to all your rules? Oh that's right you let the government live it for you and tell you what is right and wrong and what is good and bad for you don't you. Why you feel compelled to think you can tell others how to live and what their standards should be is beyond me. I know you think it is a noble cause and your heart is in the right place now if only your mind would follow.

Tello said police are not identifying the two "persons of interest," but noted that one had a student ID. No charges have been filed and no arrests have been made.

So, a bunch of verbal gynastics to say they really don't have anything? How are no arrest being made? At the very least it would be assault with a deadly weapon. That's if any of this really happened.

Stop Funding Illegals

If I didn't know your nuts, then I would find you funny. No one is going to come take your guns away. That isn't even on the table nor will it be. It's just your paranoia. You'd like to think that is what is going to happen, but it won't.

Most of the guns used in violent crimes are stolen from someones home.....They don't fall from the sky.

Responsible gun owners use trigger locks and gun safes. It doesn't stop someone 100% from getting them but it sure as hell makes it harder.

Now knowing you...You will disagree with that too....because I'm a liberal as you like to call me.

As for things near and dear...You don't even know the half...If you did you wouldn't have made that comment....Oh wait you think gays & lesbians shouldn't have equal rights too....My bad.

Yes ,I have read your other posts on other subjects.

Steve...

Anybody that takes a mental patient to a range and teaches them to use a gun is worse than stupid...she got what she had coming.

To those wondering why Billy Bad Butt Texan did not shoot these guys .... it was a gun free school zone...only criminals have guns in gun free zones

Goodnight Steve there is not rational medium for you, but before I go I must say you should read your comments and think about who is nuts. You call me nuts (does that come from hatred or just not understanding any point of view other than your own). I think I said nobody will be taking guns, you did or insinuated it see your earlier statements, as did Feinstein and Cuomo don't you read your own left wingnut progressives agendas. Most guns used in crimes are stolen or gotten illegally this I agree with, negating your final sentence that I disagree with you on everything. Unlike you I can see and find common ground, and no there are no safeguards that are a final solution. Also unlike you I don't believe the government's place or yours to save me from myself as you would put it.

I know you don't like the analogy but it is relevent, what about stolen cars and drunk drivers taking lives are you limiting their ability to kill by taking them away or mandating slower cars and everyone having to take a breathalizer before their car will start, maybe one set of keys always on their person or some other stupid "law" that will save us all. I think not. You focus on the drunks and limiting their access and safer cars. I don't see cars having a governor on them to limit their speeds on the agenda yet but by your thought process that will be coming down the road. Have a nice night and keep on with your paranoia driven agenda to somehow take away what is important to others, after all you don't mind it doesn't affect you.... yet. Outlaw needles or limit there access and there will be no more heroin addicts, right.

Again I ask you where is your outrage at the media coverage and free speech that has caused these copycat murders? Tell me free speech does not have blood on it's hands here, that some of these would have never happened had the media not reported and glamorized it with attention as they have.

Hello folks, why is Homeland Security purchasing 1.5 billion rounds of ammunition including
hollow point ammo. What do they need hollow point ammunition? Their charter
isn’t to police our country.

Department of
Homeland Security Purchases 1.2 Billion Rounds, Looking to Buy 200 Million More

9/20/12 | by S.H. Blannelberry

Despite purchasing approximately 1.2 billion rounds over the past six months, the
Department of Homeland Security is looking to acquire another 200 million
rounds for the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Agency.

According to solicitations posted on the federal business opportunities network website, the
government is looking to buy 200 million rounds of .223 over the next
several years, in addition to 176,000 rounds of .308 caliber, 168 grain hollow-point
boat-tail (HPBT) and 25,000 rounds of blank .308.

News of this information has some within the blogosphere predicting that the government is
preparing for a sustained period of civic unrest, an “all-out American Spring”
as Israeli National News described it.

“The U.S. government clearly sees the writing on the wall. What lays ahead for America is
a day of unbearable reckoning. The debt bubble which will soon burst and the
resultant financial collapse will wipe out savings accounts, pensions,
investment funds and equities of the working class, all across the nation.
Imagine bank accounts being reset to zero, “bank holidays” enforced at
gunpoint. That will unleash a wave of violent protests, social chaos and even
talk of revolution. The government will almost certainly respond with a
declaration of Martial Law, the rolling out of highway checkpoints, and before
long, the use of live ammo on unruly protesters. The desperation is evident in
the Trillion Dollar Coin test balloon that was just released.”

The Social Security Administration has also recently purchased a large quantity of hollow
point bullets, potentially signaling that authorities fear welfare riots could
occur if benefit payments cannot be made. The NOAA also recently purchased
46,000 rounds of hollow point ammunition.

This latest ammo order comes on the heels of one placed for 450 million rounds of .40 caliber
hollow point ammo back in march (ATK, a supplier of aerospace and defense
products, was awarded that contract) and a
solicitation for 750 million rounds of ammo, including .357 magnum rounds, made
in April.

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security
objectives that we’ve set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force
that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded.” ~ Barack
Obama, 2008 campaign

Why, why does Homeland Security need 1.5 billion rounds of hollow point ammunition?

First they want the rifles then the handguns!

Click on the videos below to view some very valid questions about what is occurring with the
assault on our 2^nd Amendment.

The Sandy Hook Shooting - Fully
Exposed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obiQS1xCZHY

Heres some irony for you gunners...lol....enjoy!

Gun control has been an incredibly contentious subject in the past few weeks, and Saturday's incidents on a gun rights group's proclaimed "Gun Appreciation Day" will likely make things worse. Five people were shot and wounded at three different gun shows. At the Dixie Gun and Knife show in Raleigh, N.C., a loaded 12-gauge shotgun went off at a security check and injured three people, none critically. A man at a Medina, Ohio, gun show accidentally shot his friend in with a semi-automatic pistol; the gun dealer had removed the magazine but failed to take out a chambered round before the man bought it. And in Indianapolis, a 54-year-old man was injured when he inadvertently shot himself while leaving a gun show. [Source]

The gun battle is not really about banning assault weapons. Banning assault weapons wouldn't have prevented this tragedy.

If everyone in the US is walking around with a gun (big or small, it doesn't really matter), gunfights will become commonplace. Is this what Americans really want? Then this is what Americans ought to have.

On the other hand, many Americans believe that, without their big guns, the American government will subjugate them. Is this true? Would the American government really do this to the American people? Then Americans should fight tooth and nail to keep their guns.

Where does the truth lie? Only the American people and the American government really know.

When is Congress going to take mental health serious? We need to reinstate asylums for those that will never be safe and Need to address mental health of all Americans who being ignored because a lack of funding. This issue has been on going since the mid 30's with no help from our Congress . . . instead they keep funding drug companies by paying for drugs on medicare dollars or just ignoring the fact we have a problem.

We need Compulsory sterilization for patients with a history of mental illness.

6 months ago this story would have barely made the news...now that there's an agenda to push it's front page. Anyone that says that the media isn't biased is blindly ignorant. Since when is it ok for the "neutral" news media to push for liberal policies?

I guess I am with the gun reform needed camp and I don't see any reason to have, use or own these semi-automatic rifles and high capacity ammo magazines. Who needs them for hunting or personal protection? They just seem to be gigantic penises, sort of like all the "big boy toys."

However I do believe in the right of the citizenry of the United States to "bear arms" with reasonable weaponry. A friend recently had a home invasion by a recently paroled prisoner. He had stolen a car nearby, trashed the engine and was looking to break into a house in the early morning hours since the sheriff's department were on his trail. He knocked on my friend's door, she told him to go away and when she saw that he was going to break the glass in her door she ran to her bedroom and grabbed the pistol in the night stand. When she returned to the living room the intruder, who was covered with prison tats all over his face, was waiting for her in the living room. She aimed the gun at him, told him to get on his knees and not to move or she would blow his head off and then called the SD who arrived in 6 minutes and took the guy into custody.

I have no doubt that this guy would have killed her. He was a desperate man and the car theft was his third strike (she found out later) so he was going down for a long time and had nothing to lose. Her quick wits, bravery and the loaded gun in her bedroom saved her life. I feel that until evil people are no longer allowed in "polite society" then guns are a necessary evil. My friend was trained to use her gun and could have killed the intruder with one shot. So why would she need a gun that could shoot multiple times a second to take care of the business of protecting herself?

old fat guy-1144960

Anybody that takes a mental patient to a range and teaches them to use a gun is worse than stupid...she got what she had coming

While I don't agree with "She got what she had coming" The rest of what you said is spot on . If you read any of my posts up to that point you would have likely known I was making a point about who had guns and where they got them in the mass killings of recent.

Shellie-657180

I want to know where all the people who scream about needing guns for protection are when these shootings happen. Funny thing isn't it, not one single billy bad ass is ever around to do any "protecting".

It's because us law-abiding gun owners are not allowed to carry our firearms into a "Gun Free Zone"! Are you starting to understand now, the difference between law-abiding gun owners and criminals?

Law-abiding gun owners are not the problem, stop trying to group us all into the same group to try to validate your pointless points....

Thoughtful comments here..found this information and thought it was very enlightening. According to this account on facts about guns and mass shootings in the US, released after the Aurora incident....

“Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms
across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts
to Hawaii,” they found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their
weapons legally..." (Graph shows stats next in full article, link below.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

Nicely done Anonymous... posting left wing twisted blather to push your agenda is always a good way to show your lack of intelligence on a subject. Hey whatever work for ya though. BTW how many lives have been cost by your media and their free speech on grandstanding these incidents and causing more of them? Just a thought.... just have to wonder where they are getting this common theme do this at schools from. hmmm... where oh where is the outrage.

Jeff not that it is worth our oxygen but they don't understand that guns aren't allowed in schools... they should know this, kind of like they can't take their drugs near schools. Allowed or not, most gun owners don't carry due to the hoops you already have to jump through in most states and in one socialist state they haven't gotten that now mandated CC law in place. Furthermore most aren't hanging out in schools where there could of been a guard by now to save these people. Better yet an ounce of prevention, put some culpability on the media for these copycat killers. Oh nevermind these make too much sense they are only after your rights as a final solution... remind you of anyone in history who had final solutions with disregard for human rights.

bigdogmom1

I can get the point you are trying to make with your story, but it doesn't make sense to say that your friend could have killed him with 1 shot and wouldn't need a gun that can shoot multiple times per second. First of all, the one shot kill or stop is more uncommon than common and unless she had a single shot pistol, her pistol would be able to shoot multiple times per second, as long as you can pull the trigger fast enough. Her pistol will shoot just as fast as a semi-auto rifle it's just smaller and more compact. Which is why the pistol is involved in more gun deaths than any so called "scary" assault weapon is....

Is the same group of liberals trying to blame the NRA for the school shootings also blaming AAA for drunk drivers who killed 18,000 last year.

......... but assault weapons are the weapons of choice for mass murders. And you will fight for the mass murders to have those weapons. And I will fight for responsible gun laws that minimize the number of assault weapons in the hands of people who should not be allowed to have weapons.

Oh really SFI? You call the Washington Post all left wing as if it is a radical rag? Interesting. Or is it Mother Jones you are refering to? The study and collection of data is explained in the article clearly and the intentions are clear...

"What follows here isn’t a policy agenda. It’s simply a set of facts — many of
which complicate a search for easy answers — that should inform the discussion
that we desperately need to have."

Did you read the first few paragraphs about the call to avoid politicization being a form of politicization in itself? It is because of the critical discovery of this that they wanted to provide some straightforward facts! So you question the validity of these facts? Sorry but that will not ever work in a search for any real honest and humane solutions by real citizens who, as Americans, simply care about improving the quality of life in their communities in the real world today.

And here is the partisan crap. Well well, lets see here. You say "leftist" in a persecutory light, who are you, the inquisition? You use it as a label, never defining it as it is properly defined or studied, in an uneducated fashion, as if it is a sin to be caring more about the quality of life when you do not even study enough to know that money comes from natural and living resources in the first place and that we need checks and balances against runaway Capitalism. Improve the quality of life and you improve the economy. Who does this? Every body....in your own yard first and then you can teach others how to do better in your community. Thats how it works in the village last I looked and the village needs to be safe and peaceful. Do you want a war of all against all? A war against civilized society with laws and law enforcement understood in the customs by all who share in it? We live in a mixed economy and society. That is today's reality and if you do not understand it and why we have arrived at this point in the modern world of today, go back to school and study it.

Rightwing nuts are stuck in pseudo Aristotlean-Randian dualism to justify their doublespeak which is a game they play to make more profits off the other guy, basically from an alienated untrusting point of view. They never even got to critical theory or a raised conciousness. They get confused by their own doublejargon. Look at Ryan last week, can we interpret this mumbojumble? Mystification of the masses creates a docile populace of ignorant folks, why not create a peaceful intelligent freethinking motivated society with everyone on the same page understanding that what goes around comes around for both individual and all in the big picture? No, the mumbojumle is always good for the gander and rotten for the goose and reveals itself as plain backwards logic and bad management that turns out not to work as in the last administration before Obama/Biden.

Now is the time for some real progress and we are on our way. You all had your chance, it did not work for the working middle classes and the game of give everyone a killing machine to kill each other so we can have all the goodies in the elitist class and foment a civil war is over. How they hate to see progress and success being made in a broad based working class . That is the view of class distinction from a right wing pair of lenses. They forget that if everyone does better, there is less turmoil, less violence, less crime, less problems that create turmoil, cheating, stealing and violence in the first place and less need for bang bang shootemup, and most importantly, prosperity and less expense.

What do you think they used to do in the old west? They had ordinances that kept the guns off the streets and out of town so that everyday business could be conducted peacefully and in a civilized manner on Main Street, but organized a local militia, a marshal or sherriff and a posse to enforce the law against criminals...a criminal is a criminal no matter what party or class as our golfing white collar gerrymanderers have danced out for us, and this is an American problem, not a partisan one because it has to do with the first amendment rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness OF THE PEOPLE, not just the elite.

People have seen through the tricks now. You can have the horse before the cart or after the cart, but the cart and the horse are still there, on the individual level one still must be alive and healthy enough to pursue liberty and happiness, but freedom requires responsibility still too and there are natural consequences to actions as in death as a result of an act of murderous violence with a gun. When you are dead you have no rights, no anything. Now just what were those facts?

“Since 1982, there have been at least 61 mass murders carried out with firearms
across the country, with the killings unfolding in 30 states from Massachusetts
to Hawaii,” they found. And in most cases, the killers had obtained their
weapons legally..."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/nine-facts-about-guns-and-mass-shootings-in-the-united-states/

But thats okay, you can go back to your world of Hollywood spagetti westerns in the land of neverwas. The land of ego where they really think they are the center of the universe and can make up things as they wish out of the blue movie celuloid sell u lloyd view. Wow.

Once upon a time a lot of boys got awakened from all that dig me baby cruisin the boulevard with quite a shock in the rice paddies of Nam too. I would like to hear more real ideas from those who have lived through it. I am hearing some very good and sensible things from real vets lately. I think they could tell you what shell shock feels like, PTSD. Why make it easy to inflict this horror on children, it just does not make any sense unless you want the civilian USA to become...a theater of war. If you like guns join the military or a professional career where you are trained and approved, and use them to keep the peace and to protect in the line of duty. That is your well regulated militia. Otherwise, on Main Street, unless regulated as in licensed and approved, it always was and it still is outside the law. We are taking care of those issues and legislation now and those who are stuck will be voted out in 2014!

http://www.federalistblog.us/2010/09/second_amendment_fallacies/

What's going to take for selfish, immature "gun enthusiasts" to admit we need rational legislation to protect the American people from gun-waving murderers? The Second Amendment does not exist merely to defend the perceived right of childish wannabe Rambos to accumulate pointless arsenals of deadly toys. We need broad ranging gun control legislation now. It's the right thing to do.

I care more about my rights - than these 2 gang bangers - Could really care less about them to be honest.

I agree Sailcat! Yes FOS, we should all feel this way. What about the innocent victims? We must always remember that they had everything taken away! With improved laws and law enforcement, illegally held guns will be confiscated and those who break the laws will be weeded out. Less of this will exist and there will be more safety and peace in our communities. We do not need to put up with this level of violence in America! Did you know that For most of its history, the NRA supported gun control laws and did not see government as the enemy???
http://www.alternet.org/suprising-unknown-history-nra?akid=9928.261955.RruUFn&rd=1&t=2

Enough is Enough!!! As don97524 below said...

"How do you think those guns made it to the "streets"?

Those guns mostly made it to the "streets" after being bought legally. In order to prevent those guns from making it to the "street" it is important to tighten up our background checks and pass laws that very seriously discourage those "law abiding citizens" who buy guns legally from selling them "on the streets."

It is the responsibility of every gun owner to ensure that no gun that he purchased ends up in the wrong hands. Stronger laws are necessary to make sure that those gun owners understand their responsibilities.

Whether or not the gang bangers "understand the 2nd Amendment" is not the important issue. Those gun owners who wish to have a 2nd Amendment right must understand that keeping their guns out of the hands of people who don't deserve to have guns is their responsibility."

We could, just for the sake of expediency, have a cut and paste reading "blame it on the liberals". Would save a great deal of nonsensical personal revelation.

SDN

I couldn't agree more.....But then again because they are so self righteous and so self centered they think their view and banter is unlike anyone else's.....So they drone on with scare tactics and paranoia.

So in the aftermath we have been told this is a gang related shooting.

Several federal officials have said the incident was gang-related, but the exact nature of the relationship remained unclear.

For those of you on your high horses screaming gun control and how we must change our laws an yada, yada, yada....Apparently, at least one of the men with guns was a gang banger....I don't think he cares about the gun laws or CHL. The fact that the campus is a gun free zone didn't seem to alter his behavior either.

Instead of worrying about those with legal firearms we need to disarm the criminals. We need to allow those who follow the law the ability to defend themselves. In a few days I fully expect to see Quanell X defending the shooter and finding blame with the symstem and fault with how the police arrested the charged. Perhaps this young shooter will get another bonus and our President can stand up and say, "he could be my son."

stopfreeloaders

Hey....I am out. What of it. If you have something to say...say it here.....You don't have to e-mail me.

Subject: Horsesheet
Name: stopfreeloaders
Email: godhatesdems@aol.com

Message:
You appear real good at popping off while hiding behind a computer, care to come out.

Steve:

"The parking lot is considered school property and thus would fall under the "Gun Free Zone" rules."

Nope. It's been deemed that the parking lot, and the car pool drive through thing is NOT the "premises", UNLESS there is a school function, like field day, where there are children in the parking lot.

Jessicalc

These signs like any other are in place in case someone is caught in the area of that sign doing an infraction. The penalties are stronger. You and I can go back and fourth on this however, the facts are that if teachers are getting CHL's and they are carrying them onto school property (which in some states they are in spite of Gun Free Zones like Texas), why else would they be getting them (CHL). You can't tell a gunman...Wait I have to go to my locked car in the parking lot to get my gun. It makes no sense.

The first natural reaction when hearing gun shot or explosion is to hide or run away from danger. It is in human nature. Highly trained officers learn to go towards danger and bypass what is built into us instinctively. Teachers are not highly trained to do this nor should they be. They should be highly trained to educate.

Guns like cars or houses, should be subject to registration & transfer where they are checked against a national data base to show clear title. You move to another state or sell your gun in another state....you re-register your gun for a title in that state.

As has been stated many times, by many, hand guns and guns used in violent crimes are guns obtained legally or are stolen.

If you car was stolen you report it and it goes into a system that all states have access to.....Same should be true of a gun.

The only people that seem to be bitching about this are the ones that have something to hide...or so it would seem.

Brenda1964 1.91

I have absolutely no idea how you arrived at the conclusion that by my reasoning we should have no laws because some will ignore them.

Pay attention: My argument is that they want to pass laws that impact the law abiding while routinely ignoring the law breakers. If someone commits a crime with a gun, their kneejerk response is to pass a law to take my gun. That solves nothing, but then again, their true agenda is the disarming of the American people, one gun at a time if necessary.

Steve

Guns like cars or houses, should be subject to registration & transfer where they are checked against a national data base to show clear title. You move to another state or sell your gun in another state....you re-register your gun for a title in that state.

So Steve, as it relates to this article...do you really expect gang bangers to comply with any gun control measures?

The only people that seem to be bitching about this are the ones that have something to hide...or so it would seem.

I have nothing to hide and I believe that the Government must tread lightly when it comes to further gun control measures. What I have are three kids, a dog and a home that my husband and I are well within our right as Americans to protect. I live in a diverse community with a great many passive people. Culturally, they keep a great deal of cash and valuables in their homes. Over the past couple of years we have had a rash of home invasions perpetrated by gang kids skipping school, gang thieves from Houston coming down to our bedroom community to take from the passive. Every couple of weeks we have vicious attacks on homeowners in our community where they are beaten who open admit they did not resist. I just don't get the mind set that Americans or people in America must be at the mercy of criminals. We have a tremendous police presence in our neighborhood and yet it happens over and over again. I will not roll over and be passive if someone attempts to assault me, my children or my home. Then again I feel relatively safe because those who know us realize that we are just not passive folk. What we know from this is if you are not willing to defend yourself some slimy bastard will try dominate and take and the law of averages, when living near a cesspool like Houston, is against the folks just trying to live free and unmolested.

What others in my state face are situations with a greater risk. They have ranchers and land along the border with Mexico. Often we hear about issues between landowners who are threatened by those tresspassing on their land. I want to see these land owner loaded for bear because the cartels are every so much meaner than a bear and the cartels don't care about out laws or our individual responsibilities. They would love to see those landowners disarmed or limited as to what they need to protect themselves.

What??! John Murphy, please stay in Canada where you belong. The "Backward States of America" will go on keeping you safe. Health care with no out of pocket costs.... for whom? I assure you someone, me, will be paying for these health care costs. My employer has already informed me that my monthly insurance cost is going up because of universal health care cost.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's get all those lies and distortions straight. The Canadian military, not the Backward States, defends Canada and Canadians are kept safe by the Canadian military and the RCMP. The Backward States does nothing for Canada, except give an example of what NOT to do. You seem to forget that while Americans were shivering in fear under their beds and were to afraid to let American planes land in the Backward States, that Canada was nioy afraid and 400 American planes landed in Canada (including 48 right here) while Americans were too chicken to let them land where they were supposed to, in the Backward States. More Canadian fighter jets protect Alaska than there are American fighter jets protecting Alaska. Canada protects and defends the Backward States, not the other way around, and most Canadians view the Backward States as vastly inferior to, and an enemy of, Canada and Canadians. We see the Backward States being on a par with Al Qaeda in being an enemy to Canada.

Noone, rich or poor, pays out if pocket for health care, and Candian taxes pay for the cost of health care, but Canadian taxes (which INCLUDE health care) are 65% of what Americans pay for taxes plus insurance plus deductible plus copays (none of which Canadians pay) Canadians pay $3800 per capita per year to cover everyone with whatever health care they need, while Americans pay $7900 per capita per year in health costs to leave 40% of Americans unable to go to a doctor when they get sick. Also, you do know that Family Allowance and Old Age Security Pension are a larger portion of Canadian taxes than health care is, right?

If your employer actually said that, your employer is wrong. The Affordable Care Act is NOT universal health care. It still leaves many Americans without access to health care because it is still inferior insurance run health care as you've had all along. If you had single payer, as we do, you would have universal health care, and if you did have universal single payer health care, totally eliminating insurance companies and the enormous cost they add due to profit and bureaucratic overhead (US insurance companies have 35 times the bureaucracy of Canadian government funded, physician run, universal single payer health care - 41% overhead US insurance run health care and 1.3% overhead for Canadian universal single payer health care) the cost of health care in the Backward States would be less than 45% what it is now, an has been for decades, since insurance company death oanels have run the US health care system )which is why 2 million Americans each year come to Canada for health care, including about 15 of my American cousins who know, as do 96% of Canadians, that Canadian health care is vastly superior in access, quality, and medical outcomes to what the average middle class American has with insurance run health care)

Health care and guns are both just small symbols of how Canada, and most other western democracies, lead the Backward States of America in every way that counts.

And unfortunately the carnage and bloodshed continues also. Whats the answer. Thats right. MORE GUNS. 300 million of them are not enough to make us safe yet. I wonder how many we need to make the country safe.

Yes the beat of sensational media coverage of shootings, the beat of misguided blame, the beat of media glorification of the criminals, the beat of gun grabber calls for removing our only means of resistance to said criminals, the beat of knee-jerk, reactionary calls for yet another restriction on liberty.

Optomyst- You took the words right out of my key-board!!

Guy

I'm willing to bet none of the ones being shot at had concealed weapons thus incapable of defending themselves. If anyone had been armed, the shooter would probably be a DEAD shooter.

Hey controversy baters. i didnt see jack about an "assault rifle" being involved. when they get banned....the murder count will remain where it is becuase crime stats show most gun deaths are from PISTOLS. Do you people not see that the P{OLITICIANS are pulling a baitr and switch on all of us???? They will do next-to-nothing and then sit back and stroke their own egos as they brag about how "safe" we all now are. that comes from people like the POTUS and Feinstein....and all of these worthless band of overpaid teen-age acting spoiled brats.

all of you who are saying this wouldnt have happened if there was another person on the campus with a gun - would you feel safer if James Holmes or the columbine kids had been there? Because if you give approval to anybody and their mother to bring a gun on campus, you open yourselves up to another crazy person.

Marge....How many guns are enough? The 300 plus million already out there didnt work. I guess those kindergartners should have had a carry permit.

DingleB, Restriction on your liberty? Be glad it is just that, an admendment to your second Amendment rights, wonder how it would make you feel if ALL your rights were taken away! Every person killed died because gun toters have carte blanche to do as they want. Making a killer accountable for their action does NOTHING for those that died. It does not return their rights! You staunch gun advocates allow criminals to have those weapons and you are doing nothing to prevent them from having them? It is time to hold you all who permit this accountable!

RI Mom, why you so mad? Is it because whatever you say doesn't matter? Has zero affect to anything? What you think doesn't mean anything. Keep up with your sheep talk, it means nothing haha

As usual RI mom, you don't know what your talking about. You make up your own facts sitting in front of your computer and spit them with such conviction as truth. Check out the link straight from the horses mouth. Unlike you, I back up my posts with facts, not overemotional B.S.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rimil3wmfgw

jack - your source is youtube lol get off your high horse.

Guy

Seriously? You want to bring the kindergarten children into this? Typical liberal kneejerk response.

MYB - And your source is?????? A biased main stream media who makes killers into celebrities? Your just as sick as they are.

mindyabusiness

Nobody said anything about allowing mentally disturbed individuals and "their mothers" being allowed to carry weapons. It shows how much you know about the concealed carry laws.

I'm with you RI Mom! But on these boards..anything even remotely opposed to guns..be prepared for collapsed comments. They just cannot even bear the thought! They sleep with a gun under their pillow and balk at the rest of us for not doing the same. Hell..even at a recent gun show a gun went off accidentally shooting and harming others. Irony at it's freaking BEST!!!

RI Mom--- Why is it stupid to protect the rights granted to us by our founding fathers? I fight to protect all of them, not just the second ammendment. Do you think I should take away your right to free speech, protection from the government, freedom of the press, illegal search or any of those because I do not like them? They all deserve the same respect and the same protection from all citizens, even if we do not like them.

marge - plz educate me. how would the school screen out who is allowed to bring a concealed weapon and who isnt?

Marge....A lot of the people getting killed are children. Someone's children. Families destroyed. How they go on after that is beyond me. Common sense gun laws. I dont believe in a gun ban but I do believe in common sense.

And I will ask again. How many guns will be enough to make us safe. Because 300 million isnt cutting it.

RI mom lets ban your dumb way of typing.

Banning guns isn't the solution. And it can't be accomplished accept by other people with guns which leads me to ask how does that sound any better then presidencies of straight republican presidents and no bipartisan or otherwise split political party support. No this isn't an attack on any political party but an example. If one party can push its agenda through the house, congress and the presidency then you're not really a happy camper so apply the same thought process to who owns the guns. Since we elect representatives to positions to make decisions for the American people then there really isnt' much control by the people...

Just a thought.

Irv, no one is advocating getting "rid" of the 2nd amendment. In fact, it doesn't have to be touched. What would be wrong with having a nationwide system where if Bob buys an A-15 or whatever, Bob's name and address who he bought it from and when, and the serial number of the gun? We would also have in the system the pertinent info on who Bob bought the gun from and so on and so forth. There's nothing wrong with that. We even have such info on automobiles and snow mobiles. Also, what would be wrong with making large magazines illegal? It could cut down on the number of people who could be killed by some crazy with such a gun? If one uses such guns for target practice, it would take only a matter of seconds to change out when a mag is empty and put in a fresh one. Wouldn't that be a step in making it not so easy for so many to be shot so quickly? Just asking - no name calling please.

Anyone with a concealed carry permit has gone through all the classes and background checks paid their money and given up their firstborn children to get the permit. The fact that this was a "gun free" zone tells you that the shooter was not legally carrying the weapon which makes him a criminal to begin with. Is that clear enough?

All of you who are against concealed carry need to look up Suzanna Hupp and her speech about gun control. If you don't know who she is, she was in the Luby's in Killeen Texas. If you don't know about the Luby's in Kileen Texas, you shouldn't even be talking about gun control.

Registration of guns isn't a smart idea by any means. If I know where law abiding citizen bob is and what gun he bought then I know exactly who to take it away from, or I know exactly that I don't want to rob Bob but instead his neighbor who doesn't have a gun :D

Guy

There are ALREADY common sense laws in the books.

Guy, I'm all for background checks and trying to keep guns out of the hands of mentally ill/criminals etc., but how do we do that?

The kid who killed off his family the other day had no police record. No record of violence or mental illness of any kind from what I can see. He did walk around in camo gear alot, and while maybe thats a bit odd, it's not illegal. Kids do a lot of things that older people consider odd.

The guy who killed himself and his ex wife seemingly had no prior violent episodes. No domestic violence issues. He went over the house with his handgun, and got into an argument with his estranged wife, shot and killed her, and killed himself.

The guy who killed the people in Ct had no police record. He might have had some mental health issues and while it seems his mother was going to have him committed there was no evidence that I have read that he was a danger to anyone. People said he was quiet, he was a loner. Is that a sign of a potential killer?

Just HOW do we identify these people? People who have no background in violence. No drug abuse, etc.

There are over 300mil weapons owned by private citizens in this country. Many of our citizens, those who own guns and those who don't take medications of some form for Stress, mental illness, neurological disorders, etc.

I don't understand why the sudden increase of shootings like this. Are they really increases, or are we simply seeing them more and more because of 24/7 media coverage and the anti-gun politics of many in office right now?

I don't know what the answer is. You won't get gun owners to willingly give up their guns on a large scale basis. I'd like to see some type of solution that will appease both sides.

janine - SPOT ON. Very well said!

Lets ban Rhode Island and its residents.

Quiz for defenders of the gun rights

What is the meaning of the term "well-regulated" and why did the founders choose to put it in the Second Amendment of the Bill of Rights?

I am not a gun owner but I support the right to bear arms. I do, however, believe that the rest of the Constitution gives the citizens of this country the right and the duty to decide what "well-regulated" means in the context of gun ownership through a democratic process.

don97524

What is the meaning of the term "well-regulated

Well trained:

http://www.foundingfathers.info/federalistpapers/fed29.htm

Dingle

Then why does the gun lobby not fight for regulations to ensure that every gun owner has significant training as a prerequisite for gun ownership?

RIMom.....Let's BAN stupidity. Maybe we should start with yours.

Marge....30 round mags make no sense. And how many guns will be enough to make us safe??

300 million guns out there and 15 million being bought every year have made some people rich but hasnt cut down on the carnage.

don97524

You would have to ask the gun lobby about that. As far as I am concerned the NRA lost all credibility when the endorsed Romney - a supporter of gun bans in Massachusetts.

To your point though, that would make a little more sense than arbitrary bans on specific models of firearms.

Dingle

Here's a point I wish gun rights folks would think about. Machine guns have been banned for private ownership and not many people, even NRA folks disagree with that ban. From the perspective of many of us, assault weapons are not a lot different from machine guns. Both have the missions of killing people by firing a large number of bullets in a short amount of time. Both make it very easy for a "bad guy with a gun" to rack up a large death toll in a school, a mall or a public square. Why defend those weapons?

R I Mom- what are your kids doing while you are here boring us with your ignorant haiku? I assume your profile name means Rhode Island Mom. In the latest available crime statistics (2011), that state had 6822 break-ins, 1530 aggravated assaults, 324 rapes, and 43 abductions. Not terrible numbers but I still wouldn't want to be unarmed in my home if I were you.

don97524

Dingle

Here's a point I wish gun rights folks would think about. Machine guns have been banned for private ownership and not many people, even NRA folks disagree with that ban. From the perspective of many of us, assault weapons are not a lot different from machine guns. Both have the missions of killing people by firing a large number of bullets in a short amount of time. Both make it very easy for a "bad guy with a gun" to rack up a large death toll in a school, a mall or a public square. Why defend those weapons?

Automatic and selective fire weapons are already off limits in many cases.

Most guns (revolvers, AR-15s, shotguns, etc) that are legally owned have the amount of bullets they release tied to how fast someone pulls a trigger. The question in most cases is a loading mechanic (revolver, shotgun, magazine, etc), but that doesn't seem to be consistent with the statement regarding a machine gun (most often belt or drum fed) versus a semi-automatic weapon.

If that is the case, there is already discussion on limiting magazines to roughly 10 rounds, but I'm not sure that would have stopped what occurred today in Houston.

BS Marge. It's not difficult at all to get a CHL license. Fill out a form, pay, and spend a whopping 4 whole hours in "class" (I mean really? 4 hours, who can endure that amount of training?), and score a 70 (keep in mind in the Texas school system a 70 is a D) and wa la, you get a CHL license. So, be 30% wrong when spending that whole 4 hours being "trained" on how to use your gun and you get a license. Yes, highly trained people. According to Marge.

See class offered here

http://www.chlcourse.com/software/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=69&Itemid=64#1

see the state website here

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/rsd/chl/index.htm

but I'm not sure that would have stopped what occurred today in Houston.

We shouldn't get ourselves wrapped up in believing that there is any solution that will stop all gun violence. We could approach that perfect solution if we banned all gun ownership, but hardly anyone is advocating that approach.

The President did, however, outline some common sense solutions that both preserve 2nd Amendment rights and will do a better job of keeping guns, especially very dangerous guns, out of the hands of those who should not have guns.

RI Mom, if you want so badly to ban stupidity you should start with yourself. Have you read your posts? You come across as unhinged and you just list talking points of one side of the debate. I understand that prose is difficult when you've forgotten your tin foil hat, but you should try anyway. The NRA isn't collapsing your post. People like me (and no, I don't like the NRA) are doing it because you sound like a nutjob. According to the article, this was a gang-related shooting with handguns. But you keep bleating like a frightened sheep about the "military style weapons" that you fear so much.

How are you afraid of guns "that imitate military style weapons?" Do you even know what that means? It means a pistol grip or a bayonet mount or some other cosmetic difference. "Cosmetic" means that there is no internal difference between the "guns that imitate military style weapons" and any other gun.

Don97524, the constitution is what gives us the right not the citizens.

.

stopfreeloaders

What is it about the phrase "well regulated" in the 2nd Amendment that you fail to comprehend?

I'm tired of people who are all about rights without responsibilities. In a democracy we get to legislate what those responsibilities are.

Don97524 do you really think that any of these gang bangers even know about the second amendment. they only know that you can buy a gun on the streets from a number of gangs, and yes I carry a legal concealded weopen. I also work my rance so you will find me also carrying a saddle gun.

stop

How do you think those guns made it to the "streets"?

Those guns mostly made it to the "streets" after being bought legally. In order to prevent those guns from making it to the "street" it is important to tighten up our background checks and pass laws that very seriously discourage those "law abiding citizens" who buy guns legally from selling them "on the streets."

It is the responsibility of every gun owner to ensure that no gun that he purchased ends up in the wrong hands. Stronger laws are necessary to make sure that those gun owners understand their responsibilities.

Whether or not the gang bangers "understand the 2nd Amendment" is not the important issue. Those gun owners who wish to have a 2nd Amendment right must understand that keeping their guns out of the hands of people who don't deserve to have guns is their responsibility.

Yes don. Proper laws will also bring improvements when enforced. This should weed out the criminals with guns when caught. More illegally held arms will be confiscated and off the streets. If there are no laws or law enforcement, we will simply continue to have this level of crime and chaos. There has been hopelessness and apathy over this for too long and we are too good to settle for this amount of violence in our country. It was not like this when I was a child in the fifties. It started with Manson and Nam and seems to have grown out of all proportion since. Many things must be done and its about time We The People make sure it gets done for our own best interests! It's likely we will also begin to see more support and job opportunities for mental health, counselors and social workers. It will be nice to see better everyday living conditions again for All Americans as a result of these improvements within the next few years. We can and We will get it done!

nikon: Compared to your brilliance? Surely you jest.

---------Shellie-657180

Why are you against conceal and carry? Does any of this have to do with people that conceal and carry?

People who followed the current laws and obtained their conceal and carry permits are not the problem in this society. Actually people who conceal and carry statistically break the law less than someone who doesn’t. That means, that you have a greater chance of breaking the law than a person that conceal and carries. I’m not saying that you have or will, those are just the statistical facts…..

Someone who has their permit to conceal and carry is not going to just pull their firearm out to threaten someone or to get their way in an argument. Their firearm does not leave their holster in public unless they are willing to pull the trigger and protect their or someone else’s life. If a permit to carry holder uses their firearm for anything else they can be charged with a felony. A felony means they no longer can carry a firearm or even possess a firearm. No mentally competent person is going to take that chance.

We respect what a firearm is and we respect our right to carry and give others more respect because of it. That is also another fact that you can research in your spare time when you are not trying to bash law-abiding citizens just to try to make yourself sound like your point was well thought out.

The problem is not guns or people who carry them legally. It is the mentally unstable, the criminals and violent nature of their actions that are the problem. If we would outlaw everything that has taken a life for the means of saving even just one life, we wouldn’t be allowed to drive, fly, go to the doctor, take any medication, eat “un-healthy” foods, have a baseball bat or steak knife in your home…. Where would you stop, I say let’s start with the real problem, the person…

A psycho/scumbag at work, you mean

Please tell that to the families of these victims. Or those of the dead kids in Aurora and Sandy Hook. You still think the 2nd amendment protects this scumbag's right to a weapon?

Is this the fault of the NRA, Bush or the person who got a gun and decided to shoot people? Many lefties will blame all but who is really responsible...

Sorry Lizz, this isn't the Minority Report, so we can't divine who will commit a crime before it happens. So yes, I do support the people's right to arm themselves, unless they fall into the category of people who would not/should not pass the background check.

Ryan - how do you screen who should or should not have a gun though? is there a racism/sexism/ableism test? Clearly people with anger issues should not have a gun but perhaps nobody has filed a report against that person and the background check doesn't pick it up. Are background checks thorough enough to trust someone with a something intended to murder?

Yes a background check should be enough. You have to be 18 to legally own a rifle and 21 to own a Pistol in PA. Parents are the first step in this issue, you cant just let the system raise your child. A parent needs to be a part in a child's life and to identify any mental problems like this. They need to to take action. If that is a problem maybe we should implement some license to procreate.

Lets take this a step further. Driving is a privilege not a right. Maybe we should start taking licenses away for stupid acts. An example would be a 1 DUI = 2 years no license and 2 DUI = never getting that license back.

Or how about we enact harsher punishments for crimes committed. There should be no release from the system if committed of murder unless you are proven innocent. As for the Aurora shooter why are we wasting all that money on his trials. He is guilty without a doubt mentally ill or not. Just hang him and save the tax payers money. And I mean hang him, dont waste the money on a humane death. Literally just hanging him with 10 feet of rope than reuse the rope. Even the bible states eye for an eye.

It also calls to question are these crazy doing this for attention and to get their name in history? Maybe we need to strip them of their name and other identifying facts when the story comes out. Once convicted of their crimes execute them or if they take their own life we should completely remove them form history. Delete everything about them and clear the social security number than bury them in an unmarked grave.

resol - Thank you for actually answering my question thoughtfully! I agree that parents have to be more involved but i work with teenage boys. The average 21 year old is selfish, impulsive and absent minded. im not sure checking for age is enough because each person matures differently but you're on the right track.

I'm a democrat and reallllllyyyyy don't want to hear people continuing to advocate to ban guns all the way or keep guns free as they are now so it is refreshing to get an actual response back on HOW to further regulate guns without being too restricting.

PArents should actually raise their kids with their kids intentions in mind, not neglect them all their existence and not raise them. Being your kids best friend isn't the same as being a dad, or else i'd probably have ignored that video games were fake to begin with and that videos were as accurate as a history book.

Building more laws to combat an issue that more often that not clearly lies with the environment a kid was raised in isn't going to solve the laws. And as someone noted earlier if someone didn't report you so that you would pop in a background check isn't the laws fault or the gun stores fault. It's the people who didn't take appropriate action to warn of someones mental situation regardless of the reason.

You can't be babysat your entire life, people die that's life. And while you can present and throw all the solutions you want at it, with each solution comes a new problem.

LizzieCrowe

Please tell that to the families of these victims. Or those of the dead kids in Aurora and Sandy Hook. You still think the 2nd amendment protects this scumbag's right to a weapon

When someone is a violent criminal/murderer, no. The psycho in Sandy Hook killed his own mother and stole her weapons, so he became someone that cannot legally own firearms. See how that works? Convicted criminals fail background checks. Yes, even at gun shows.

Ban those guns. Live in peace.

That has worked so well for illegal drugs hasn't it? Or stopping drunk drivers?

-----takenaka

-----Ban those guns. Live in peace.

Live in Peace?? Yeah right!

Humans haven’t lived in peace since the first person born between a man and a woman, Cain, killed his brother Abel with his bare hands…

And for those non-bible believers... I'm sure you can look back at the cave paintings and see the neanderthal man killing each other without the use of a firearm.

U R SIC!

Don't know, there has not been any meaningful change in gun control just yet. I think what you will eventually see is control on the Ammo rather then the guns though.

I figured this was just a continuation of Gun Appreciation Day.

Thanks to the NRA (and thus the gun manufacturers they represent) there is no gun control in this country. And if you want to see the executives at the NRA go berserk just try to regulate ammunition.

Many of these gun advocates talk about Switzerland where every male is given a weapon to keep at home for service in their homeland militia. What they don't mention is the very strict laws governing the possession of ammunition. Almost all ammunition is held in regional armouries. They are not allowed to keep ammunition in the home.

Bluelake....

To a point you are correct. Too often when these low lifes start shooting, there is absolutely no "gun control"..... they fire randomly hoping to hit something..... anything.

I PRACTICE gun control.......... I hit what I aim at.

To start with, I really do hate that "any" shooting happens. But it's obvious that the media is going to highlight every story pertaining to guns to get everyone riled up so that guns are banned. That's not going to do anything. You watch...this topic will be the start of the new civil war. Don't know about you all, but I'm on the side with the guns.

If the media didn't make all these damn killers into celebrities overnight plastering their names and photos all over gods creation and you start getting rid of these "gun free" zones where ALL or most of these shootings happen, you won't have these problems! Don't blame the "people", blame the sick @!$%#s that do this @!$%#!

ok people my condolences to the people who are the victim of crazy people out there but i just have one question is it possible that the sudden outbreak of violence with guns is being done by people with the agenda to make it seem like all of the world has gone crazy and so that to stop it we have to take a way the gun rights of law abiding citizens and so they can change the core values and rights of our country because they feel that if there is no guns there is no violence i was just wondering because i feel that as a citizen of this country i have the right to protect my self and my family from crazy people like this and the other people who feel the need to express themselves this way

HOW IS THIS NEWS?

XD9MM,

So what you're saying is that when YOU go on a shooting spree at a school, you won't miss?

Good for you, only liberal commies go to school anyhow...

Too bad today's shooter isn't as badass as you are.

Prisons actually have security. Therefore, this will NEVER happen.

Sure, if you ignore the recent shooting INSIDE a police station...

MENTAL HEALTH ALERT,MENTAL HEALTH ALERT! Rather than wasting time on removing the weapon from the equation, lets research and discover the different variables that lead a person to pick up a weapon and use it to harm others. Sure aggressiveness is in our nature, but this is not the same. The guns being used are not driving themselves to these locations, nor are they loading themselves, aiming themselves, or discharging themselves. Forget trying to eliminate the weapon, eliminate the hatred of the person pulling the trigger. An unstable mind is far more dangerous.

Cory, I would love to see you go to every criminal and take away their guns. DAMN SHEEP JUST DON'T GET IT!!!!!!

The gun battle is not really about banning assault weapons. Banning assault weapons wouldn't have prevented this tragedy.

If everyone in the US is walking around with a gun, gunfights will become commonplace. Is this what Americans really want? Then this is what Americans ought to have.

On the other hand, many Americans believe that, without their big guns, the American government will subjugate them. Is this true? Would the American government really do this to the American people? Then Americans should fight tooth and nail to keep their guns.

Where does the truth lie? Only the American people and the American government really know.

since you havent been capped yet, how did you pull off not getting an education?

Lots of guns in Texas plus an idiot for governor.

Since so many people in Texas are carrying, why were they not able to stop this ? Guess that only works at the OK corral.

Don't say anything bad about guns, if offends some peoples right to worship.

lol @ guy

No, it is probably because people in positions of power in Texas don't support a weapons ban. There are shooting everywhere every day, but THIS one got reported.

MM,

Most public schools and colleges don't allow guns on campus. Simple answer. No guns, no self defense!

The good people of Texas that are able to carry concealed handguns are also law abiding so they would not have had their weapon on them on a school campus. If they were allowed to carry there the shooter would have been dead. The majority of gun owners are law abiding citizens that have weapons either for hobby, hunting, collections, or self defense.

According to the Lone Star College website, weapons are not allowed on the campus.

MM- probably because a campus is a "gun free" zone and any "LAW ABIDING" citizen would leave their gun at home or in their vehicle (hopefully locked up). I guess the part about having a gun on campus and shooting someone (outside of self-defense) being illegal doesn't really worry a criminal. So again, if guns are outlawed who will have them? Maybe your smart enough to figure that one out.

Indeed the shooter had 8 reindeer!

xxx....only 7.....he shot the one with the stupid red nose

Really?? I am a gun lover, does that make me a killer? Most of these people that perpertrate these crimes obtain these guns illegally, and can't even vote because of past offenses. Get real. You can purchase a gun in any hood in any town. Background checks. Yeah right. You are living in denial.

I just feel bad for the person who had the heart attack. Heart attack... What a sissy.

Yes they certainly do.

I carry all the time. I HAVE gone to the aid of another and used my firearm when they turned their attention to me. Fortunately, I didn't need to fire as they tripped over themselves running away. Oh, the older man I aided? He was released from the hospital more than three weeks later. He was nearly beat to death. The police and his family thanked me for getting involved.

I carry for the same reason a Police Officer carries. SELF protection.

People who conceal carry do not commit crimes, for the most part. Take your head out of your a$$, and stop trying to take away the rights of law abiding citizens when you should be focused on the scumbag criminals.

Everybody is a law abiding citizen until they're not. Many of these shooters have no previous criminal record.

Has anyone considered that the need to own weapons is to fulfill the fantasies of the wanabe sherrifs, Billy the Kid's, Clint Eastwood's etc. ????

There is some quality countries that don't allow guns you can choose to live in... all with high crime rates *using guns* where you can live in peace and prosperity. Please move there and stop whining.

whatever??

Everybody is a law abiding citizen until they're not. Many of these shooters have no previous criminal record.

And you know this how? What's your source?

Boy, the anti-gun libtards are at it again - jumping to conclusions on an incomplete story.

I'm with you XD. I carry my XD with me at all times, legally, and always loaded. I hope I don't have to ever use it, but will if needed.

Doc - stupid comment. I'm certainly not Annie Oakley, or any wannabe gunslinger. And neither are 99.9% of the legal gun owners. The people doing the shooting - bad guys. We're the good guys.

The reason I carry? Because a cop is too heavy....

Yes they certainly do.

I carry all the time. I HAVE gone to the aid of another and used my firearm when they turned their attention to me. Fortunately, I didn't need to fire as they tripped over themselves running away. Oh, the older man I aided? He was released from the hospital more than three weeks later. He was nearly beat to death. The police and his family thanked me for getting involved.

I carry for the same reason a Police Officer carries. SELF protection.

And I'm guessing the fact that your using your weapon to preserve the peace and diffuse the situation didn't get the airplay or news coverage that any of these "guns are evil" stories do.

Bradley Dunkin

There is some quality countries that don't allow guns you can choose to live in... all with high crime rates *using guns* where you can live in peace and prosperity. Please move there and stop whining.

Ban guns, but have a higher violent crime rate than the US? I can think of lots that control guns more than we do and have much LOWER rates (just about if not all other first-world nations). Where are you thinking of? Myanmar?

29Again..... ahhhh... 29, I remember those days about 30+ years ago!!! Not only loaded, but I have two spare mags with me at all times.

Shawn... Correct. As a matter of fact, even the beating the man took never got into the "news". The victim was an older black man, and his attackers were also black. It wasn't an unusual occurance so it wasn't news worthy.

Me too XD. Two magazines with hollow points. Don't want those pesky bullets exiting the bad guy, now do we? And I've been celebrating my 29th birthday for 23 years now....(hence, the "again").

And thanks for your service. I remembered that from previous posts (and I had another name that I retired).

And thanks for your voice of reason, even though the anti-gun crown would rather hold on to their ignorance than listen to logic and reason.

{Any} rational human being desires the right to defend themselves... only a fool depends on others to do that for them.

In this case I believe there is a BOLO for a Black Male, 18-25 years old, wearing a Red shirt and a backwards baseball cap... Yesterday I was reading about the case where the old guys who were shot while playing Dominos (for goodness sake!) were shot by a black guy in the same age bracket who's name was 'Martin Luther King' --- looks like a lot of these latest shootings were caused by unstable BLACK guys...

Any thoughts on removing guns from the the real source of the problem????

Doc434

Has anyone considered that the need to own weapons is to fulfill the fantasies of the wanabe sherrifs, Billy the Kid's, Clint Eastwood's etc. ???

Interesting theory, Doc (Holliday? You a cowboy too?). But that is why we had toy guns as kids. Now that we are adults and we watch the news, we know that there are real threats out there in the world. Criminals with guns, knives, etc.

College campuses are gun free killing zones for criminals to prey on innocents at.

XDm9mm, I fear you are speaking to a brick wall. Trying to get these people to use their reason instead of their emotions is like trying to teach calculus to a dog.

ryan....... yeah I know. They're like lemmings following to the edge of the abyss and jumping in, totally ignorant of the fate that awaits them at the bottom..... but it's one hell of a ride to get there!!!

We the citizens of this great country are the NRA who are you?

a bunch of frat boys walking around with guns isn't going to solve anything. in fact, it'll probably cause even more shootings for even more reasons.

Mindyabusiness: Wow... I like how you call any returning vet who's going back to school and carries a firearm a "frat boy". 99% of people who take the time to go through the concealed carry course dont at in a reckless manner as you imply. Maybe you should get facts before you just start spouting your "feelings".

eric i wasnt talking about vet. I would probably trust him to defend me if a shooter came on my college campus. What i'm saying is i don't trust a bunch of frat boys to defend me if vet isn't volunteering to patrol my campus that day.

mindyabusiness has never owned, fired, nor carried a firearm. Or has been in the life or death situation to protect his family. But, he knows it ALL.

scjc - i'm a democrat from one of the most violent cities in california and i come from a long line of gun owners and own one myself. quit attacking people on the internet you don't even know. you only make yourself look stupid.

I think our country is becoming one big "slum"-- eg., I'm feeling no safer walking down the street, going into public places or going to school than I would in the inner city. It's becoming like a war zone. Guns everywhere, crazies, drug addicts everywhere. Violent, blood loving people being nurtured by our wholesome media (notice we never go after the people who hide behind the first amendment in all this). It seems to me that the people who are doing the shootings are not just the "mentally ill,"; there are just as many reports of teens and adults shooting in rage after arguments with parents or spouses. Character issues, here, people. Care to address that along with everything else? What a mess we've made of our society.

Sorry...... not necessarily.

Clearly you have no idea so you probably shouldn't comment on it. Do some research and come back. Thx.

Educate yourself before jumping to conclusions

http://www.lonestar.edu/weapons-premises.htm

No Texas doesn't allow guns on camous unless it's by a police officer. Schools are gun free zones

For those "law abiding" gun owners.

Texas has many opportunities for carrying weapons with a concealed hand gun permit. This allow the law abiding to carry a hand gun discretely into many places. Perhaps those in the know will ultimately tell us if the shooters possess a concealed hand gun permit. Given the area of the shooting, I'm thinking they will not find any permits issued to these shooters. Perhaps they will find that these are more fast and furious weapons supplied on the DL by AG Eric Holder.

College campuses are gun free zones. Like all school campuses. idiots

Are you sure? Lots of schools in Texas have teachers carrying concealed weapons. That yahoo they have for a Governor likes guns. He doesnt know what he is doing or saying but he likes guns.

THAT"S right students should spend their money on gun not pencils and paper....BYW I thought gun free zones were illegal in Teaxas!

Perhaps you folks could do just 30 seconds worth of fact checking before you start spouting off trying to use anything and everything to push your agenda while talking out of your a$$es

http://www.lonestar.edu/weapons-premises.htm

A person who carries a concealed handgun whether licensed or not onto premises to which the System has title or possession or is a holder in due course of a negotiable instrument in violation of a posted notice violates the criminal trespass statute.

That policy doesn't address "open-carry", which apparently IS legal on that campus.

I see the problem xxx ooo, you tried to think.

Stop...."THAT'S right students should spend their money on gun not pencils and paper"

You figured out what the NRA is shooting for. Pens and paper are obsolete. Guns are forever.

yes1fan, this is another weapons free campus. Get some facts before you post more lies and BS.

No weapons are allowed on that school's campus. Unless of course you are a criminal or have criminal intentions. In that case there isn't much any additional laws can do to stop you.

http://www.lonestar.edu/weapons-premises.htm

Dharmabum74

Wait, how did this happen? Everyone in Texas is armed to the teeth, and by all reports, that should have thwarted any possible shooting...

..

..

Yea since just because it's Texas that means everyone goes to school with a gun. Does your ignorance know no bounds? You can ban all the guns you want I GUARANTEE you will not stop violence. If the individuals who commited this act didn't have access to guns do you think that would stop them? Most definitely not! They would have used a bomb... which can be made with everyday products to can find at almost any grocery store. Would you then want to ban grocery stores? Or the sale of those everyday products? Stop blaming the weapons and blame the individuals.

“He knows nothing; and he thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career.”
― George Bernard Shaw, Major Barbara

veteran - YOU may be able to protect the students but do you think the average football player with half a brain would have the common sense to do the right thing? Also, if TX allows people to bring guns to school, just as easily as you could bring a gun on that campus, crazies now have the same right to bear arms around other students. Sorry but that would not make me feel any safer.

Let's say you have a gun. You are walking down the street and some scary looking character starts coming towards you. You wouldn't shoot first, because you know you could be wrong and spend the rest of your life in prison. So every single time, the bad guy is going to shoot first and your gun did nothing to protect you.

I imagine there are many like me, who feel that our freedoms are being robbed by having to be afraid of crazy people with guns. Maybe someday we can find a planet for the gun lovers. Shoot away.

@xxx ooo

I think you are commenting on the wrong article, you see we abort 300,000 infants a year, thats bout 822 per day yet that is a right to do so also. If guns kill people than doctors do also and about 800 more per day. The problem we gun owners should talk about is that we all pay for these abortions for other people, wether we agree with abortion or not. Why dont you complain about 300,000 infants a day? or would that be radical or make you unstable? It is our right to bare arms and we pay for it all by ourselves! So go complain to Planned Parenthood!!!

BC the NRA wants to keep their heads burried in the sand. They don't want to acknowledge there is problem in this country with the types of weapons we have access to and the ease of getting them. The NRA only cares about $$ not dead school children.

And what about the alcohol problem with drunk drivers!?

What about all the abortions!?

Your pathetic for even trying to compare the numbers and FACTS! Get real!

This is about guns. Not fertile eggs or drunks. It's about a gun fight in public. For me it's about a gunfight within feet of my 19 mo. old granddaughter who was at the YMCA daycare on campus. She is 100% Texan & wasn't carrying a gun.

And it should be noted that the school may be 20 miles from downtown, but it is well within the Houston metropolus. It is just another shooting within a crowded city.

Pussy.

Move to China if you want to be a sheeple.

No Damian-1160981 there isn't a gun problem there is a black and gangbanger problem in this country... Perhaps more needs to be done to control the [actual] problem...

Yeah... major black problem in my area too.

I wish they'd go back...

No.. just another "peace-loving radical" gone berserk when he didn't get what he was "entitled to."

oh please navydude...stop pushing your agenda while attempting (and poorly at that) disgrace something you know nothing about

My guess is this will be a criminal (gang member type with a lenghty crim history) and the gun will be illegally obtained. Or it will be a mentlly unstable person that would have been warehoused and not walking around in public 30 years ago.

Sheila, I DO have experience (life-long in law enforcement) so this is something I know about.

If more law-abiding citizens had guns, perhaps there would have been only a SINGLE victim and a dead shooter.

If you don't want to carry, fine; but let others make their own choice. Obama had hundreds of people with guns protecting him yesterday. How many were protectiong me? He is such a hypocrite wanting to take guns away from others, yet surrounding himself with guns.

There is only one person protecting me, ME, so I want maximum firepower. Six rounds aren't going to stop a thug with an "illegal" magazine, nor will it stop multiple thugs very well.

Looks like you are the one who needs to stop pushing an agenda and disgracing yourself for speaking on something you know nothing about.

veteran - well what say you about george zimmerman? let's forget the specifics about the case and assume that trayvon did NOTHING wrong except being black. Do you really want to give the power to whoever decides to own a gun? What if I'm one of those crazy feminists who gets off discriminating and treating men like garbage? If you encourage more people to carry guns to protect themselves and the people around them, you're also inviting more crazies to carry guns and their version of "protecting" is a little different from yours and mine.

The head in the sand attitude works fine for the spineless. You think by passing more Laws and banning everything in sight, the boogeyman will go away? Arm yourself folks. Pay no attention to the fairies and spineless waving the flag of retreat. Criminals, terrorists and the mentally ill don't buy into their Ideology. Arm yourself, arm your wife or girlfriend. Take some Training. Then subscribe to the three warning shot rule. Two in the chest and one in the ground. Never shoot in the air. It could come back down and kill you.

Spoken like a true Rambo ........its not his kids that are getting slaughtered like animals

why don't you go to newtown and ask the parents who lost there loved ones ...................

that's so true

we all shoudl have a vote on weather all the guns should be banned ............... put in front of public , there are less people (far less ) people getting slaughtered in Canada and UK because the have banned the guns

o NRA , video games and Gun manufacturers need to keep the guns in the hands of public to make them feel stronger

they are the one who wants to kill our children ..

So, there's a whole bunch of posters already screaming about how we need to ban high capacity magazines. You really gotta 'splain that one to me. Maybe I'm just ignorant, I don't know. You really think that some nut job out there, who's planning to shoot up some school or movie theater, or whatever, is going to abide by this law? There's literally millions of higher capacity magazines out there right now. He'll just buy some now. Or they'll be a Black Market for them, or, hey, here's an idea, buy a whole bunch of 7-round magazines and change 'em out.

I think our country is becoming one big "slum"-- eg., I'm feeling no safer walking down the street, going into public places or going to school than I would in the inner city. It's becoming like a war zone. Guns everywhere, crazies, drug addicts everywhere. Violent, blood loving people being nurtured by our wholesome media (notice we never go after the people who hide behind the first amendment in all this). It seems to me that the people who are doing the shootings are not just the "mentally ill,"; there are just as many reports of teens and adults shooting in rage after arguments with parents or spouses. Character issues, here, people. Care to address that along with everything else? What a mess we've made of our society.