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Lori Stratford / cranston.patch.com
Father-daughter dances like this one would be allowed -- once again -- if a proposed state law passes.
The age-old tradition of father-daughter dances may get an encore performance on school dance floors in Cranston, R.I.
A lawmaker is sponsoring a bill that she hopes will amend Rhode Island's language on gender discrimination laws just enough to allow gender-specific events, such as father-daughter dances or mother-son baseball games, to make a comeback after they were banned last fall.
“I don’t believe the intent of these events was ever to be overtly discriminatory, but we all have to live with the language of the law. This bill, if approved and enacted, should ensure that these events can continue without weakening our resolve to oppose discriminatory activities,” State Sen. Hanna Gallo, who represents Cranston, said in a statement.
The legislation would amend state law to permit schools "to provide activities for students of one sex provided that reasonably comparable activities are provided for students of the other sex," Gallo said a in a statement.
Cranston banned father-daughter dances last year, saying they were a violation of state gender laws after the American Civil Liberties Union sent a complaint on behalf of a single mom, who said her daughter couldn't attend because she didn't have a dad to accompany her.
“A dance for girls and a baseball game for boys, particularly in light of the stereotypes they embody, are not, we submit, ‘reasonably comparable’ activities. To the contrary; the stereotypes at their core undermine the goal of school anti-discrimination laws,” the ACLU letter read.
At least one Cranston elementary school has managed to avoid the controversy altogether: Hold family dances instead.
"The stereotypical family doesn't really exist anymore," Robyn Ladouceur, a parent of a sixth-grader at Garden City School in Cranston. "We know for a fact that we have families from lesbian couples that have children, and adopted children, and all different faiths and religions. Why don't we just have an event for whoever you'd like to bring?"
Ladouceur is the parent facilitator of the Family Engagement Network, a PTO-type organization. She hopes her school will be a role model for others in Cranston, regardless of the outcome of Gallo's legislation.
"I'm trying to grasp what they're losing in calling a father-daughter dance 'a family dance,' what they're losing in calling a mother-son bowling 'family bowling,'" she said. "Anybody who has listened to both sides would say if the kids aren't losing out on anything and all we're doing is making it more acceptable for all people to come, and you just want your husband to take your daughter to the family dance, no one is going to look differently upon you."
The town of Cranston, located a few miles outside of Providence, is no stranger to controversy. In April 2011, a 15-year-old girl teamed up with the ACLU and filed a lawsuit over a prayer banner that hung in her high school's auditorium. Jessica Ahlquist, an atheist, received death threats for insisting that the banner, which had been up for decades, be removed; ultimately, she won the lawsuit.
Leave a Comment:
We can't ban guns, yet we can ban a Father-daughter dance.
You have the right to own a gun, fathers don't have a constitutional right to dance with their daughters. There is always someone out there who will want to take away from others what they cannot have regardless of what it is.
Its the same people that want to do both.
@Relf,
Have you heard of inbreeding? May be a reason why the father-daughter dance is banned. Just saying. LOL
these are CREEPY dances in my opinion anyway.......sheesh!!!!
Wagstaff, it is liberals who want to ban both these things.
Wow, they couldn't just say - We are having a father-daughter dance, but if you wish to bring you mother or other guardian, for any reason, please do so. End of controversy.
They did
"Once again allow", these lib-tards want to control every whinny thing, a girl does not have a father present, so they want to ban the Father-Daughter Dance, what a bunch of losers...........................
Here is another example where those who say something is not fair tromp on the rights of others. So they banned Father Daughter dances because 1 person complained. Attempts were made to make the dance accessible to the 1 complainer, yet it wasn't enough. So we tramp on the rights of the 99+% to make it "fair" to the less than 1 %. Not seeing how making it unfair to 99+% is right and true. I'm glad this legislator is trying to do something. Quite frankly, this should never been in the courts in the first place.
DougLogan, I'm a liberal and they need to stay so don't dare attempt to speak for us all. I grew up without a father, mine died when I was nine and if there isn't a father, either dead or not in the picture the child will just have to bring an uncle or not go. There are lots of disappointments in life, we should learn early to deal with it. Life will not bend over backward for you when you grow up, nor will it cushion you from more serious disappointments. Anyone attempting to get rid of things like this should be publicly humiliated, it's the only way they'll learn.
@ F Walsh:
Good comment. But that is EXACTLY what is happening with the laws in this country. If someone is unable or simply cannot do something, they sue so that no one is allowed to do it under the guise of "discrimination."
I'm not old but 30 years ago this would have been a non-starter. Now it's commonly done. People seem to expect everything to acquiesce to their needs/limitations.
@willowbrook: You didn't read the article. The creation of a "family dance" is what is letting things move forward. Instead, you have people like Hanna Gallo who can't handle the concept of equality and want to enshrine bigotry into the law.
If you want to have a dance, you don't get to restrict it to father/daughter. Just do what Garden City School did: Have a dance. And if it turns out that the father dances with the daughter, great, but nobody gets left out in the process.
Just what is it about treating everybody equally that put you in such a state?
call it a dance.then if someone doesnt want to dance,nobody dances.just stand there staring at each other.or a social,and someone doesnt want to talk,then no one talks.just stand there staring at each other.god,not everyone can be included in everything.
Sounds like Cranston, RI needs to leave the 16th century behind
@R Battle: Huh? Your last sentence completely contradicts everything that came before it.
The point is you *can* include everyone in everything. Why on earth wouldn't you try? And a public school should do everything it can to make sure of that. So, if you want to have a dance, then have a dance...don't restrict it to father/daughter. Everybody gets to come if they want.
Why on earth would a school come up with an activity that unnecessarily excludes students?
@ Brian, the fact is, it isn't equal for the 99%, that's the problem. I did read the article and having a "family" dance is not the same. It is cop-out. Making it equal for all by ending the tradition goes to show how hateful, and self centered one person was. They were given the opportunity to bring a Father figure, since the child didn't have one, that wasn't good enough for the hater. What about all of those Mothers who divorced and wants nothing to do with the Father? I could go on and on. Father Daughter dances are a bonding opportunity for them this hater took away. We need more events like this to encourage relationships rather than create more distance.
The school didn't "restrict" the dance to Father Daughter. The school was the place in the community to hold the event. What next, hold homecoming events for every sport (both male and female) since schools usually only hold them for football? (Basketball for schools without football programs.) That would be just about as stupid.
So.... local lawmakers are commenting, spending time convening, getting paid to deliberate and pass legislation concerning father daughter dances, baby daddy momma aunt gathers, girls and boys going against traditional roles supposedly?
Well, it's good to know and we can all breathe a sigh of relief. Afterall, who would want concentration put on the economy, pressuring the comatose Clowngress to do anything, our economy that's on life support, It's much better to parse on the small, the insignificant. Heaven forbid there should EVER be dances, events, or any social activities that acknowledge any group of peoples.
Hey.... let's do one better. Let's turn this into a race arguement. Or, better yet... a race AND gender arguement. But, make the races black and white, and then seperate into Dems and Repubs. Then, bring up gun laws.
It really, REALLY goes a long ways towards ignoring the do nothing, bought out Clowngress and the sorry state of America's economy.
Gotta go... Honey Boo Boo's coming on.
I cannot imagine a whinier, more petulant thing to do.
MY child doesn't have a father with which to participate...therefore NO ONE can participate!
Really? How about we just talk to our children about family dynamics...and use this as a learning opportunity.
"Honey, every family is different in one way or another...this is a way in which our family is different."
SPEAK to your children...don't pander to their every whim and tantrum!
Children need to learn the reality that sometimes, even when they REALLY want something, the answer is no.
This event wasn't created in order to hurt or alienate any child.
It was created to foster bonds between a parent and child.
My sister is a single Mom. (Her ex has serious mental illness, and is in and out of mental facilities and state correctional facilities on a regular basis) If any of her daughters wanted to attend an event like this, MY husband would step up in a heartbeat for her kids. She would NEVER expect the event to stop for everyone else, just to make her kids "feel better". The reality is...for all practical purposes, they don't have a Dad (restraining orders and all that). Not having a father daughter dance isn't going to change that for them. It would just punish the kids who DO!
Find another male to take your child to the dance...or take her somewhere else for some special Mom and Daughter bonding time. Get a mani-pedi. See a movie. Have a fancy dinner.
Make them cancel the dance? How petty.
The words "she" and "he" are discriminatory and should be banned from being spoken.
Indeed, since I typed them, I am guilty of discrimination. Where do I turn myself in?
I am a father and look forward to events like this with my daughters. I don't think calling it a "family dance" diminishes the special nature of the event in any way. Also, my wife and son would enjoy an event like this.
Jim: I don't think calling it a "family dance" diminishes the special nature of the event in any way.
Would not calling it a "family dance" then be discriminatory toward children without families who live in residential institutions?
... if the child's father can't make the dance.....stay home.....we don't need to hear about everyones sob story before any event is planned....enough....
RI, where I used to live, is a hotbed of ACLU and union activity. While I agree with the ACLU at times, they've got their noses stuck in everywhere, and I can't tell you how often while standing to check-out at my local Stop and Shop I had to endure employees moaning about the company and what the union was going to do to help them. If I'd had the power I would have fired all of them and hired replacements who were happy to have a job. And let's not start on teachers who would strike, even though it was illegal, right as school was starting in the fall. Beautiful state, but corrupt leaders and incredibly high unemployment. Glad to be gone.
i agree with you. someone should tell the ACLU that if they keep crying wolf, no one is gonna believe them when they have an actual issue.
Carolyn, you did the right thing, some of us are stuck with houses here. Place is a liberal cesspool.
@mindyabusiness,
Why, they still listen to Al and Jessie after all the losers crying wolf that they have backed. Just saying.
Carolyn, when you left Rhode Island, average RI IQ jumped a full two points.
Then auntiefascist bred, and the average IQ plummeted 15 points.
@Carolyn, then why didn't you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, buy the store, then fire them? Istead of just sitting around whining about it while you probably should be working.
Trudat, I don't live in Rhode Island. How are things under the rock?
To Auntie Fascist and hypocrisy1776--why, if I left the state because so much was wrong would the average RI IQ jump two points? And why would I want to buy a Stop and Shop? It's a huge chain of stores. Where do you get that I'm whining when I point out that the employees were doing just that in front of customers? Is that the kind of shopping experience you want? I don't need to "pull myself up by my bootstraps" as I'm living a comfortable life after educating myself and working all my life.
Caroly, comment #3, yes, sometimes the ACLU wins unpopular cases, because they feel the Constitution should apply to everyone instead of the chosen few. As for them sticking their noses in everywhere, they don't have the resources to do that. They DO assist, though, when they get INVITED in to a situation.
Maybe this is part of the problem with our society:
Apparently Robyn is totally disconnected from all but a very tiny microcosm of our society. I am part of a stereotypical family and thoroughly enjoy being "normal," whatever that may mean today.
Some people think the 1950s was littered with families consisting of a mom a dad and 2 kids and a dog and everything was apple pie and lemonade. The atypical family existed back then as it does not along with a typical family (what ever that means).
Bullcrap Krestov. 85%+ grew up with both parents then, throughout their whole childhood. 50% do today.
I've got the stereotypical family- mom, dad, 2 kids, 1 dog... except that my kids have ancestry from more than one continent...
I like the 'family dance' idea. All kids are included, and can take an adult family member of their chosing.
Why would it be a problem to not be a "stereotypical" family of two opposite-sex parents and one or more children? Ridiculous.
Why does it have to be a father-daughter dance or a mother-son dance? Why can't it be a family dance?
And frankly, what's wrong with not being a "stereotypical" family? Growing up I knew lots of kids from single-parent homes and lots from two-parent households. Funnily enough, most of the screw-ups were from the two-parent households.
However, I say banning these dances or activities is silly. They may be a little archaic, but is it that big of a deal?
'Funnily enough, most of the screw-ups were from the two-parent households'
Your bent is showing with this statement.
89% of statistics are just made up on the spot.
ahhh the ACLU once again ruining America one court case at a time..
Yeah...how dare the Constitution apply to everyone. Some people are more equal than others, you know. Them uppity folks don't know what's good for 'em.
The tail seems to being wagging the dog on a regular basis in this country today. If ONE person doesn't like something, that puts it out of reach for all the rest of us. Sometimes I wish time travel existed so that we could go back and assassinate the guy who bankrolled the ACLU that now provides us with all the wonderful societal "upgrades" we enjoy.
Political, meet Correctness
The ACLU needs to stick to more worthy endeavors instead of wasting time on trivial things like this.
Amen, we have other major discriminatory situations that they could use their talents.
Oh, Liberal Freaks had to ban father-daughter dances, cuz it doesn't fit into the weird cartoon of a society they're trying to create.
Man, who votes for these deranged leftwing vermin? Loooooney-bin.
Cuck-oo! Cuck-oo!
"Progress"---LOL!
I am pretty liberal with my views, however this is the biggest crock I've ever heard. If you don't have a dad to take you to a dance, go to the movies with your mom or something. This is just the incessant need for people to make a big deal out of nothing. It's a school dance...it's not like someone denied little girls without father's the right to attend the school or something.
If the girl had gone to the school and said, "Unfortunately, I do not have a father, but would like to attend the dance with my mother/aunt/uncle/grandpa" I seriously doubt the school would have said no.
"I'm trying to grasp what they're losing in calling a father-daughter dance 'a family dance,' what they're losing in calling a mother-son bowling 'family bowling,'" she said. "Anybody who has listened to both sides would say if the kids aren't losing out on anything and all we're doing is making it more acceptable for all people to come, and you just want your husband to take your daughter to the family dance, no one is going to look differently upon you."
20 years ago this wouldn't even be an argument. The problem lies in the fact that there are still traditional families that want to celebrate the traits of a traditional family. There are too many people who made their own choices such as divorce, having a child outside of a marriage, or attaining a child in a same sex marriage and now want everyone else to pay for their choices. If you choose to do anything outside of a traditional marriage that is your right but please stop trying to force your rights at the expense of a father or a mother who chose a traditional setting. If naming is not an issue I am sure the girl could have brought an uncle or a close male friend of the family to the dance and no one would have said a thing about it.
Hey, stupid, my father died when I was three. What kind of choice did MY mother make? Other than doing the best she could with three kids and no one to help her? And this was 50 years ago, when the "traditional" family was all the rage. This kind of dance would have only excluded me (and my sister) at the same time providing us with an un-needed reminder of what we had lost.
rkaralius--
Sympathies for the loss of your father, but to what extent should society at large be beholden to not reminding you of your loss in the midst of celebrating what they have? Should schools avoid having children make art projects for mother's day or father's day in order to avoid reminding some children that they do not have someone to make a project for?
For that matter, may all dances should be cancelled, because you never know what kid will be needlessly reminded of a recent breakup with their former boyfriend/girlfriend or of their inability to get a date.
Your grieving process is not a valid excuse for banning celebrations by others.
Amen
@justross: You have that completely backwards. "Beholden"? To what? Your job as an educator to provide service to *all* of your students and not just the ones you want to point out as better than the rest?
If you're going to have a dance, why on earth would you restrict it? Nobody is stopping you from celebrating anything. Instead, we're insisting that you make sure everybody gets to join in.
Just what is it about treating everybody equally that has you so upset?
Shhhhh......don't mention dads around rkaralius!!! Her dad died!!! Be quiet!!!
My mom's father, an abusive alcoholic, walked out on her and her family when she was 9. She never saw him again. She was raised during the Depression by a single mother and struggled for everything she ever got and without any choice either. But you never heard any kind of whiny crap coming from her -- ever. She worked hard and lived her life and was a great mother to me and my siblings and wife of 52 years to my father.
So while it's sad that you grew up without a father, so did a lot of other people, and they coped very well. And they sure as hell didn't make everyone else suffer just because they felt bad or slighted. If people wanted to hold a father-daughter dance, my mom would have been gracious enough to bake the cookies and make the punch. Too bad you (and all the other whiners) can't do the same.
Brian, your vision of equal treatment is positively harrison bergeronesque. Being blind to differences, or flattening out the differences to pretend everyone is the same is hardly a productive form of equality. Acknowledging things that some students have in their lives to celebrate is not saying you think they are better than everyone else. It's merely acknowledging what those students have to be happy about.
It's a very shallow vision of equality where students cannot acknowledge their fathers for fear that those without will feel insulted.
to both stupid and grief: No one is making anyone PAY for anything nor do we care anymore about your sob story as you care for anyone else's. Considering all the horrible stories out there, do you really think encouraging a teen girl to go to a dance with a male family friend is really a good idea? the father-daughter thing is creepy enough without having to dance with a guy your mom knows.
During the depression children starved to death. Should we let children in the US starve to death just because they did it back then? Your logic is so skewed that a 4 year old could counter it.
Good Grief, my mother's father also deserted her family during the depression, and she still has deep emotional scars, from that and also losing her husband at age 34. But this isn't about anyone's choices, or "whiners", or anything else you hold in such low esteem. This is about basic humanity. This is about children being excluded from a school-sponsored event because of something they had absolutely no control over. Maybe choices were made that resulted in them being father-less, but it was NEVER the child's choices. I can't imagine what happened in your own childhood to make you so totally devoid of compassion, but I have to say I truly feel sorry for you. Your loss is far more devastating than mine.
Another issue we have in this country is that legislators (local, state and federal) do not ever think of the unintended consequences of their actions.
RI, a life sucking hole where the people are dumb enough to always put the same crooks in office, if you put 'D' next to your name, you can get any office you want.
ACLU knows theres weakness in cranston though, they already sued them last year because there was a "prayer banner" that no one even knew was there, so this is a no brainer to fill their coffers.
One thing youll never see, RI in the news for doing something good.
oh trudat,
i'm a little confused by this article. i just found it and clicked on it. it definitely talks about lawmakers etc.. which would be the RI gov't right ???
but.. but.. you definitely just told me and other posters that RI gov't will only concentrate on ONE thing at a time, that they DON'T multi-task...
ummm... now i'm confused.. you said it was the truth ! did you lie ?
please let me know :)
Oh look, the child is now stalking me.
hahhahaah !! you actually think you are that important ?
actually you aren't.. you are definitely amusing, but not quite amusing enough to be stalked.
i was on nbc news like many others and clicked on the article out of curiousity, then looked at the comments and - lo and behold ! YOU ARE HERE ! rofl !!!
the same person who was very adamant earlier today in telling me and other posters that the gov't of RI only focuses on ONE thing at a time and DOES NOT multi-task !
ROFL !!! oh you are priceless !!!!!!
Chafee's a Republican. Get a new rant, dipstick!!
Same with Waukesha WI. It's a hotbed of conservatism...a virtual cesspool of ignorance
I saw your stupid post above too. Maybe you should look chafee up on the internet genus.
From your post above though, im guessing you are just some public works employee taxdollar sucking leech.
Can you whine? Can you whine even a little bit? Then come join the ACLU! We're not happy with anything and we can turn your whine into legal action at the drop of a hat!
After all, no matter the occasion, there's always bound to be someone who doesn't like it and some round about way to legally stop it.
The ACLU - "How dare any group of people attempt to be uniformly happy."
I don't understand. Going to a dance or a baseball game requires legislation?
Bob -
It would seem so. This is the Utopia that the big government folks dream of.
(Also keep in mind that lawsuits for all kinds of crazy Sh!t make lawyers a bunch of money. . . )
It's Obama's fault!
Not it is Bush's for having two daughters.
Sorry, had to laugh. Both George II and President Obama have two daughters.
I am so sick and tired of political correctness and these whiney arse little beotches from ACLU. If it is tradition, attack it. If it was considered normal, destroy it. F0(K YOU ACLU.
Wow. Liberal insanity.
wow. conservative ignorance.
Stuntman, I think your latest stunt left your head embedded in your @$$.
I'm sure glad I don't live in Rhode Island! But the liberals will continue to tear down all family traditions because the minority must triumph over the majority. I wonder what it's like to live in a society where majority actually can keep their traditions.
umm you do know a democrat won the presidency, don't you? I think that means YOU are the minority now. The far-right have been shoving their beliefs down the nation's throat for decades. It's about time your gag reflex gets a workout, you reap what you sow.
Completely ridiculous that this is even an issue, and that we spend all this time, money, and energy dragging it up the court system.
Are father-daughter dances and mother-son baseball games unfair for some? Totally, just like how life is unfair for most. Should children be taken from their parents to make it 'fair' and 'equal' for orphans?
I understand if your not happy about not having the same opportunities, but that doesn't mean you should go around and ruin everybody else's fun!
Please remember all the garbage we have had to endure for the last four years about "fairness" and "a level playing field." I was forced to add the word "fair" to my lexicon of 4-letter words and got so sick of hearing it that I was ready to puke every time I heard it.
You are absolutely right! Furthermore, no one has anything that is "guaranteed" in lifel Neither subtle drugs nor the soundest of legislation will guarantee us health, happiness, or the right to life. I grew up poor on the west side of Wichita. I used the lemons to make college lemonade (twice) and came out the other end with a professional degree and a career that has made me feel fulfilled and happy about being able to help others.
My other alternative was to park my butt, whine about all the advantages that my friends in Westlink had, and how life was so unfair. That is the route to a welfare check and lifetime dependence on Uncle Sugar to take care of you.
"I'm trying to grasp what they're losing in calling a father-daughter dance 'a family dance,' what they're losing in calling a mother-son bowling 'family bowling,'" she said. "Anybody who has listened to both sides would say if the kids aren't losing out on anything and all we're doing is making it more acceptable for all people to come, and you just want your husband to take your daughter to the family dance, no one is going to look differently upon you."
I'm with her. We had "family events" all the time growing up. I went with my Mother to some events, my father to others and one time with my Grandfather ( it was awesome!). Who cares which parent is listed on the banner, call it a "family event" and celebrate the family you are in and the love it shares. Having a family to love you is awesome no matter which person you are with, there is no reason to make it so specific.
because it's NORMAL for a male and female to dance. Not that 'other' fake setup they are pushing in everyones face today. Dads and daughters have a unique relationship, like when dad give away a daughter for marriage, but those 'others' don't like what's normal.
sam, lots of mothers walk their daughters down the aisle now, often because the dad is dead. Are they these fabled "others" you speak of? Besides, the old practice was based on the idea that women were the possessions of men and not human beings in their own right. The handing over of the daughter suggest that she is incapable of taking care of herself so she needs either her daddy or a hubby to do it. I, for one, am glad those days have gone the way of the dodo bird. perhaps you should follow them.
I have a good dad and a good stepdad, and didn't want to try to chose or anything, so I'd decided to just walk myself down the aisle. My priest suggested hubby and I walk down the aisle together, as women aren't property to be delivered to a man anymore, and as we were entering into the marriage as equals. So that's what we did. (No offense to anyone who wants to do it the traditional way for tradition's sake, but the 'giving away' is just something you can do if you want, not something that's necessarily expected).
I grew up in a traditional family with mom and dad who have been married to each other for a long time.
However, my dad finds this notion rather creepy because of the 'message' it invokes, namely that daughters are the 'property' of their fathers and then of their husbands when they marry.
I know that neither I nor my dad would have attended an event like that. Moreover, plenty of people do not have a dad for various reasons: military assignment, death, divorce, abuse, imprisonment, etc. Some people even have two dads or two moms. And some are closer to their uncles or grandparents than their biological parents.
I fail to see why it is such a big deal to call an event like this a 'family dance.' Isn't that the most important part?
Also, why are the boys allowed to go to a sports event while the girls have a dance? Why are we continuing to do this crap in the 21st century?
I couldn't care less about a dance, but I certainly do give a crap about sports and I'd rather do that.
Then don't attend but why would you want to deny someone else the opportunity to bond with their father. That is selfish and self centered. Part of the ME generation I would guess.
What a mess we live in.
The gay agenda is to destroy anything that they can't fit into. That is any normal biological event. And the 9th district ACLU hasn't had a real job in decades since the civil rights movement and the Federal government took over. So the ACLU now protects pedophiles, the westboro baptists and the gays of course.
THERE IS NO GAY AGENDA! There is however a gay civil rights movement and I'm happy to break this to you...we're winning. I say "we" not because I am gay but because I support them, like the majority of the US now.
Why are you obsessed with The Gays? Is there something about it that you are drawn to?
If you have two moms then bring them to MOTHER/SON dances. If you have two dads then bring them to FATHER/DAUGHTER dances. That's it. A woman is not a father and a man is not mother.
Who really gives a sh$t