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Subscribe to RSSWomen who rode into Iraq during the 2003 Coalition invasion or who withstood on-base mortar attacks that killed other U.S. troops raucously cheered news of the impending lift of the female-combat ban, shouting the same three spirited words.
“It’s about time!” said Laura Cannon, a 2001 West Point graduate who rolled into Iraq with the Army’s 3rd Infantry Division, spending seven months there. “Women have been on the ‘front lines,’ per se, for years. Now they're getting credit and authorization that is long overdue. The landscape of combat has changed so much that front lines are ambiguous, and frankly, what I believe to be an obsolete concept.”
“Yes!” added Julie Weckerlein, a Air Force veteran who served in Afghanistan and Iraq. In 2007, she sought cover and was not far from Army Sgt. Trista Moretti, 27, who was killed when mortars exploded on their base in Nasir Lafitah, Iraq. “There is definitely a sense of ‘it's about time.'
“This decision means the military is finally removing that useless ‘attached, but not assigned’ verbiage that meant absolutely nothing on the field, with the boots on the ground,” she added. Weckerlein worked as an Air Force combat correspondent, traveling throughout Iraq and Afghanistan, documenting the missions of Air Force joint terminal air controllers and Army infantry soldiers at remote provincial reconstruction team locations and at forward operating bases. In other words, she shadowed military men who were doing “male only” jobs.
Women now compose about 15 percent of the U.S. armed forces.
Placing American women in combat is “a great idea,” especially because "my gosh, women have served in the military since World War I," said Terri Kaas, an Air Force veteran who spent time in Bahrain and Germany.
“Women in the military should be able to do the same jobs as men, whatever the mission is. Though the military has desegregated, women are still treated differently,” in part because they have been held back from combat, Kaas said.
“I know, you still hear: 'It’s a man’s military.' But we are all service members,” she added. “Look at the Marine Corps — they have equal standards of fitness for both genders. If the men can’t respect women for the job they’re doing maybe these men shouldn’t be in the military.”
In fact, argued Cannon, the policy and political path is now clear for Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta to eliminate “gender-based restrictions on military jobs and career paths altogether.”
“I think every branch should have its own set of criteria and physical requirements, instead of the basic, existing standards that say: men need to do this and women need to do that,” Cannon added.
“Pilots in the aviation branch certainly don't need to physically perform to the same levels as that of infantrymen. So have new standards applicable to every job. Then, if a woman can achieve all of the requirements necessary to enter the infantry — by all means — let her!”
Related: Defense chief Panetta to clear women for combat roles
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I too shudder at Panetta's decision and its likely consequences should we ever go to war with another nation-state. Its one thing to engage in counter-insurgency operations like that pursued in Iraq and Afghanistan, and while not seeking to diminish the sacrifices made. It is simply that combat in Iraq and Afghanistan pales in comparison to combat our country saw in WWII, Korea, or Vietnam. Fighting determined enemy battalions, regiments, and divisons is fighting on a scale that I hope our nation never sees again. Unless Congress sees fit to bar this decision under its constitutional power, I fear the nation will rue the day this decision was made.
Women saw front line combat in WWII on the Eastern Front against the German Army (who qualifies as determined, I think), and more than held there own.
I understand your angst. Theatre war is a much different ball game.
IMHO, I believe there are women out there that can cut it. Those women deserve that opportunity if they be so inclined.
We should rue the day we decide military force trumps keeping the peace.
Although, I must admit I am the first to want to beat the snot out of those
Islamo-fascists.
If the day comes when we have another Hitler on our hands, boots on the ground will not be the primary tactic.
True to a point. Women, in varying numbers, have fought in wars through-out history. And we have had women killed in Iraq and Afghanistan.
But the wholesale insertion of women into our infantry and tank battalions is something we ought not do. Recalling the few women we killed in Vietnam (25th Infantry Division 1968-69), its just something that I'd hoped we never see again.
Well said Brian O'Keeffe. You are correct. People are assuming that future wars will look like present wars. The casualties in World War II, Korea and Vietnam should tell people something about what war looks like at its worst. Supporters of women in the Infantry should read up on Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Iwo Jima, Chosin Reservoir, Dak To. Those troops struggling through those battles were Infantrymen. I was an Infantryman in Vietnam and I guarantee you no Infantryman in those wars ever said in the hell of battle, "I'm sure glad I got this career opportunity!"
"I was an Infantryman in Vietnam and I guarantee you no Infantryman in those wars ever said in the hell of battle, "I'm sure glad I got this career opportunity!"
I do know a Battalion Commander that volunteered his unit that were not even pegged to deploy (there was no need for an Air Assault unit in Baghdad at the time). However, there we were, getting injured and killed so he could have a better shot at making Full Bird before he retired....
I think its an overdo idea to allow woman into combat situations.. their already there and have the same training. by all means: if you're qualified, do the job! man or woman!
They are not in infantry units and that is the front line we know. And they do not get the same training as males in combat arms MOS's. Do not comment on something you know nothing about.
Wait till the bad times roll then see what kind of cheering goes on. No doubt some of the heshes' can probably do fine in combat, but will rapidly find combat is not anything to cheer about.
War is always a bad time.
Awesome!
It's about God Damn Time!
I wish I could see the look on a Talibans fighters face when they realize a Woman shot his ass:)
I wish some of their women would pull an AK out of their burkas and mow thos asswipes down.
I can dream can't I. :P
From a social and psychological point, having women as frontline combatants against the enemies we now face does have an up side.
Guess the Generals are sick of the whining. They haven't heard anything yet. Want to weaken your Military? They just did. Might as well let them in the NFL, NBA, NHL. Gay marriages were the start. Won't be long before Viagara will be obsolete.
Holy @!$%#. Nothing like tagging all of your pet peeves in one inane swoop.
The truth will set you free. The Country is in the sheitter with all this Politically Correct Bullsheite.
We no longer have the drat if if women in the military choose to go into combat then I say go for it.As a woman I would never have wanted to go into combat or the military,even as a clerk typist.It's not my cup of teas.
When you get drafted you will not have that choice. Learn to say cannon fodder.
kpm58,I'm pushing 62 so no danger of being drafted even if they do reenact it.
I served in the military and can honestly say that the job I had was the most important job I've ever had, although I didn't realize it at the time. I would do it again if they would let me. Unfortunately, I'm too old now.
I am 5 ft 1, 125 lbs. I could never carry a dude off the front line. More power to anyone who can.
But, I have always been a damn good shot.
So there's that.
LJ, you may be a good shot, that's awesome. But if your my battle buddy and I get hit can you get me out of there? You already said no. I'm an infantry senior non-commissioned officer (E-7), been deployed 4 times, Desert Shield/Storm, and OIF x3. There is a big difference between being in a combat unit, then combat support or combat service & support. I see you replyed to alot of posts on this subject. Do you have at least 1 day in boots? Yes, women have been in combat before, but NOT in the combat MOS's, 11's, 19's, 18's, etc. I have also served 3 years as an infantry drill sergeant at Ft.Benning, GA. I've been through 10 cycles, teaching, and mentoring male soldiers on what to expect and train for combat....you have no idea what the hell your talkin about...there's an old saying, "don't let that alligator mouth over-ride that Chihuahua ass.
I'm 5'4". When I entered basic training I weighed 103 lbs, was weak as a kitten and had to drag my duffel bag. 8 weeks later I weighed 120 lbs and could throw it over the side of a truck with one hand. By the time I finished my MOS training (6 months) I weighed 130 lbs and could stay the full 15 miles in formation on a battalion run, was finishing the PT test with a max score and was even outperforming the requirements to do so. No, my mos wasn't a combat one (I was an 05) but we had a special unit at the base I served on for specialized combat training. I did not participate but some of the women from my unit did and performed just as well as the men. While I agree that this type of thing is not the thing for all women, I honesting think that if a woman can perform, she should be able to serve.
Welcome to combat. Be careful what you wish for. I hope the combat pay differential is worth it for you.
See, you too have distain for "combat". If only the nation in general, felt that way.
The pay differential is never worth it for the dead and wounded, regardless of gender.
Here's a question, When did war turn from ideology to economics, or did it ever?
Something to ponder, well at least I do. Just waxing philosophical.
Another point to ponder, I think it is sexist to assume that it is more acceptable for guys to die in war than women.
Just MHO
War is usually about economics except for the times when men have gone to war over women.
The ones cheering are safe at home, not being shot at.
Well, maybe by gang members who will love to see us disarmed.
I am happy that women now have a level playing field. Oh, wait a second, men have to register for the draft, but women don't. I guess the field is tilted in their favor.
If qualified women truly receive access to all full combat positions and a draft occurs, then yes, I am of the opinion that women should have to register. If they can't qualify for combat, they wont be placed there. Logic.
We cannot expect complete equal treatment if we are not willing to share our brother's load. That be my feeling on the matter.
Women should be subject to the draft, it is the price of citizenship.
When the draft happens, if you can breathe and hold a weapon (and not necessarily both at the same time) you fight.
There goes the last bastion of manhood. Chivalry will officially be dead when woman engage in hand to hand combat.
Sorry ladies, but you have combat positions that you excel in already like flying fighter jets and attack helicopters. Those are very dangerous jobs.
I'm sorry but as a former airborne infantryman, I believe that our combat effectiveness will suffer with woman on the front lines. Men are basically animals and it takes an animal to be an effective infantry soldier. Most women can't turn into a animal the same way.
Most women can't turn into a animal the same way.
With all do respect Sir, I beg to differ. There was a female gang in Hell's Kitchen that you may want to learn about. They were truly animals. Many a male gang member attested to that.
You might be surprised how much of a vicious animal a woman can turn into.
and no, it's not the last bastion of manhood. Silly. Women always love for guys to open doors etc. I got no problem with that, even as a lesbo. I think it is very earnest and sweet.
It's okay that you want to be chivalrous. I think it's very cool.
But, I'm not normal. :)
These is not my own words but I can't exactly remember the whole line, I'll try -
"They spilled the blood of their sons like table wine on the drafts of their war plans."
That's not quite right. Who knows this line?
I'll google it. Race?
Let's see what women would I like to see on the front lines......
Oprah
Nancy Pelosi
Joy Behar
Whoopi Goldberg
Mrs. Bill Clinton
Arianna Huffington
Maxine Waters
Oh, and Bawney Fwank!
Stevephoenix,I respect and admire Whoopie Goldberg.She is not afraid to voice her opinion.
Not every woman can or should serve in combat but neither should every man. What ever the standards are if anyone, man or woman, meets them they should be thanked for volunteering to put their lives on the line. Women from other countries have served in combat all the way back to WWII.
I have been through survival school and POW training and the women were not given any slack nor did they ask for it. The only person who asked to be let out of training from my group happened to be a man. No shame on him either, it isn't something everyone can do. As for the claim that a woman will be raped if captured, men can be raped too! POWs of either sex can be mistreated and tortured by the enemy which is why there is training about how to survive it honorably. The all volunteer force needs brave Americans to serve and that is not limited to only one sex.
It is about time!
Completing SERE School does not make an infantryman. That is where the disconnection lies in all of this talk of women serving in combat. There is serving in a combat zone, then there is serving in an infantry battalion as a infantryman. That is where the no sh*t fighting goes on. Recieving indirect fire (artillery, mortar fire) in your rear area or a FOB, does not make an infantryman. Dangerous? hell yes, but not even close to the day-in and day-out life as a grunt.
Not to sound sexist or anything, but there's a reason why women stay home with regards to wars.
Are their women out there who can be terrific soldiers? Absolutely.
Should those women be given the chance to serve their country? Absolutely.
Is that every woman? Absolutely not.
On the bright side, the only thing that would make a jihadist madder than being shot by an American, is being shot by an American woman.
Ask how many women in the Army and the Marines right now do they want to trade their current MOS to lateral move into the combat arms MOS of infantry, tanker, LAV Crewmen, AAV crewmen, artillery (not a counter-battery radar operator either, but a canonneer). You will hear nothing but silence. Serving in a combat zone is not the same as the danger faced when you have to "locate and close with the enemy and destroy him by fire and manuver or repel his assault by fire and close combat" (mission of the Marine Corps Rifle Platoon) when you serve in the combat arms MOS's. Do any of you have a clue of what that means? My "sister" Marines have no problem objecting to the agenda that is being forced upon them by people that have no clue.
You keep speaking as if lifting the ban will force women into combat MOS's. or that the men in those MOS's had no other choice. Lifting the ban just gives women the same option to be 11B..ect. If they can't meet the physical requirements, they are re-classed or let out just like the men who can't meet them. Not every guy that goes to infantry makes it through either.
What a sick society we have become when people cheer at the thought of killing or being killed. This is not an advancement this is a step back.
Way back, like everything else in the US now. That is probably why we are not no 1 anymore in anything except being brainess.
Power to you as I have no issues with women doing anything .. Can you face the facts of being captured and tortured and I'm sure the sick puppies in the MidEast would have a field day with a woman ? Keeping your buddy alive in a firefight ? Can you make sure you pull your weight on a mission ? THAT is the whole point ...Can you afford to see your mistake lose a buddy ? War combat is VERY mentally and Physically challenging . Pull the trigger ? These things you MUST consider and if the answer is Yes then I see no reason not to be allowed into combat , but seriously consider this as you may get what you ask for ...
Panetta is an idiot and only wants to do this to get his name in the history books as a complete bonehead.
Typical wrong decision as usual. This will be a big deal right until a few are sexually assulted. Then we will have to read about that for a month. What a country this has turned into. I am so glad I keep getting older. We are now one disappointment after the other. God help us. Obviously we can not help ourselves.
Obviously you have not read about military women being raped in the academies, boot camp and by their commanding officers. Women are well aware of the threat of rape no matter where they are, from birth to death. We cannot live our lives in constant fear of what could happen. Having said this, I am not in favor of sending any human being into a war, especially those that are of dubious necessity and efficacy.
Most people are familiar with 'Blackhawk Down' - are we ready to see our combat women treated that way - and are they prepared for it? The public outrage will be one you cant imagine -- and the terrorists are looking forward to it.
I joined the Navy in the 1980's during peace time. I was fortunate to have joined when I did. I learned very quickly that I was terrible at using a firearm, running and swimming (I was great at floating). I fear that this new initiative will stop women from joining the military. I do know that there are women who are capable of doing what I could not do. I hope that the military will be very specific and identify those that can and cannot, without making it mandatory. In today's world, women are head of households. If a woman is denied entry into the military because of her inability to be combat ready it will hurt families. I love my country and I served honorably. I want the same access to be available for future generations of women regardless of how she may serve.
“Look at the Marine Corps — they have equal standards of fitness for both genders. If the men can’t respect women for the job they’re doing maybe these men shouldn’t be in the military.”
Of course the comment (in the above story) by an female "ARMY" Captain about how we do things in the Corps today, is FALSE. We do not have the same physical fitness standards in the Marine Corps. In our PFT Men do pull-ups, women do a "flexed arm hang" (which will change to pull-ups next year). They are not scored on the same scale as male Marines either.
I love it when soldiers claim to know what USMC regulations are when they should really focus on "fixing" the Army.