Stop with your outright lies. We have known since Dec. 15, 2012, the day following the Newtown shootings that the weapon police found in the car was a shotgun. The weapon which was used to kill all 20 of the six and seven-year-old children was an AR-15 Bushmaster semi-automatic assault style rifle. The Connecticut State Police stated so in their press release on December 15. The Medical Examiner stated that all of the children's bodies were riddled with between 3 and 11 .223 bullets from the AR-15.

What purpose you hope to serve by continuing to perpetuate this lie is for you to know, but we know you are lying ... which seems an odd way to attempt to persuade?

Robert, even if the AR was used, lets vilafy the right thing. The person who decided to take a weapon into a school and hurt innocen people. The gun, be it an AR shotgun or a hand gun didnt make any decision to kill. I also believe we will never know the truth of what was really used or what was really found in the trunk as this entire situtation was used to support a cause.....The govts. wish to add more control. Its not about guns, as they do nothing on their own, its comepltly about control. I am sorry you as an American are willing to accept your rights taken away, there are many of us who are not going to sit by and watch them widdle them away one by one.

It does matter hat he used an assault weapon. I love the argument that people kill with sticks and hammers. I would like to see you kill 26 people with a stick or a hammer ... just ain't going to happen.

Vicki Lynn wrote:

"Robert, even if the AR was used, lets vilafy the right thing..."

I am "vilifying" the right thing. I am "vilifying" the person who knowingly and deliberately chose to post a lie (post #1) for his/her own purposes, and then finished that comment by chastising others for not "reporting the truth instead of misleading lies." Certainly you do not mean to defend intentional lies, do you?

"...The person who decided to take a weapon into a school and hurt innocen people. The gun, be it an AR shotgun or a hand gun didnt make any decision to kill."

I never made the idiotic argument that "the gun" made a "decision to kill." How could you possibly read that stupid idea into my comment? I called the person who posted comment #1 on his/her intentional lie, dissembling about the guns which were used in the killings and the gun which was found in the car. Nothing more. Whatever else you read into that came from your own imagination. I rebutted a lie with the facts. Period.

"I also believe we will never know the truth of what was really used or what was really found in the trunk as this entire situtation was used to support a cause.....The govts. wish to add more control. Its not about guns, as they do nothing on their own, its comepltly about control. "

Your comment above shows your thought processes. If the facts as reported do not comport with your opinions, would you prefer to believe that the government is lying to you? Following your logic in this case, the Newtown Connecticut Police, the Connecticut State Police, the FBI and the Medical Examiner are all lying to us, because they have a control agenda. That's quite a broad conspiracy hypothesis there, 'Vicki Lynn'. That's pretty paranoid and irrational. Maybe you should give some thought to professional counseling?

"I am sorry you as an American are willing to accept your rights taken away, there are many of us who are not going to sit by and watch them widdle them away one by one.

What the hell are you talking about? Where is your mind wandering? How could you possibly conclude that I am willing to accept my rights being taken away because I called a liar on his/her lie?

You have a real issue, lady. Is it your normal practice to put thoughts in peoples heads and read entirely unrelated assumptions into peoples actual comments? You really need some introspection. You are making no sense whatsoever.

My only point to the individual who posted comment #1 is that using lies to make a point is an odd way to try to persuade, and further that it is dishonorable.

And I will make the point to you 'Vicki Lynn' that presuming to know what others think or believe or assigning thoughts to others which you have fabricated entirely in your own imagination is ridiculous.

Looked like a semi auto shotgun in the trunk. The cop was working the slide from the side not the rear as he would on an AR-15. You can blame the News for the confusion they changed their story at least half a dozen times in the first day and one of them was the AR-15 was left in the car. I don't believe the conspiracy theories but I do believe they adhere to Hillarys axiom "Never let a good crisis go to waste."

"I love the argument that people kill with sticks and hammers. I would like to see you kill 26 people with a stick or a hammer ... just ain't going to happen."

FBI Annual Crime statistics: 323 Americans killed with rifles in 2011; 496 U.S. murders with hammers that same year.

Ban the assault ball-peens!

Many people use the stupidest arguments for pro-gun advocacy. Here are my two favorite!

"Cars kill more people each year than guns"

Yes, but almost all of them are classified as "accidents". So unless 2nd Amendment nutters are willing to call all 1st & 2nd degree murders and mass shootings as "accidents", they need to find a different analogy!

"Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

Uh... so ban people? Seriously, just like Steve-2352647 stated above, "I would like to see you kill 26 people with a stick or a hammer ... just ain't going to happen."

Bottom line guns make it easier to kill.

Dying in an accident is so much better than dying due to a murder. Oh wait, you're still dead. Also hands and feet were used to murder 726 Americans in 2011. Blunt objects like hammers were used to murder 496 Americans. All rifles including scary looking semi autos were used to murder 323 Americans. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11 As for killing at one time, it seems it is hard to beat a gallon of gasoline http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/jealous-ex-boyfriend-fury-killed-87-happy-land-fire-20-years-article-1.173625

Xorp,

Oh wait, you're still dead.

Wow... I take it you have absolutely no consideration towards the friends and family that are left behind, do you?

Blunt objects like hammers were used to murder 496 Americans.

it seems it is hard to beat a gallon of gasoline

Okay, riddle me this... what is gasoline and said blunt objects' primary purpose?

Ignore robert in oregon since he likes to ignor the truth and the facts.

The AR rifle was never used and all of the victims were shot with handguns.

That is the plain facts to the case.

Robert should be ashamed of his lieing ways but he has no shame to begin with.

sittingonafence

Ignore robert in oregon since he likes to ignor the truth and the facts.

The AR rifle was never used and all of the victims were shot with handguns.

Well, then, someone better update Wikipedia and all of the other news agencies that are FALSELY reporting it then... Yeah... Right... So, I guess we should file this right next to "Lunar Landing" and "Grassy Knoll"?

My Step Brother was killed by a man that chose to illegality use marijuana then chose to drive impaired, he drifted across the centerline and hit my Step Brother head on killing him. So I have some personal experience dealing with loss caused by a persons choices. I didn't blame the car, I blamed the man for his choices. I can assure you I would not feel any better or worse had he been killed in any other fashion, be it hammer, hands, arrow, gun or bomb. He was still taken away from us because of the choices someone made.

As for primary purpose, as you can see even though hands, and hammers have completely different primary duties they still kill more yearly than all rifles combined! A firearms primary purpose is to place a projectile into a designated area at a distance. That is why it is use in many sports including the Olympics. You are mistaken if you think their only purpose is to kill. I have been target shooting for 31 years and never killed anything. I also use archery for target shooting. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11

Hey Robert in Oregon,..........shut your pie hole and watch this MSNBC news clip. Here you are spewing lies and calling peoples names and you don't even keep up with the news......what a hypocrit...I have no idea where you get your misleading information but the coroners report differs from your assessment.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

Robt. in oregom -

Your comment above shows your thought processes. If the facts as reported do not comport with your opinions, would you prefer to believe that the government is lying to you?

Seems some government personnel were less than honest here. That ME has some questions to answer. But take comfort in the fact that you can always trust your government. LOL

Maybe you should give some thought to professional counseling?

And maybe you should follow your own advice?

Who hunts with an assault rifle? Well, I guess it depends on the prey. I take that back.

Ummmm.............most of you had better get your head out of your rear ends. THE SANDY HOOK SHOOTINGS WERE DONE WITH HANDGUNS AND NOT AN AR-15! NBC ADMITTED TO THAT ON AIR!

Geez what a bunch of Sheeple in America nowadays!

@Steve "It does matter hat he used an assault weapon. I love the argument that people kill with sticks and hammers. I would like to see you kill 26 people with a stick or a hammer ... just ain't going to happen".

Actually, a man in China just recently killed 17 children in school over there using two butcher knives. Let's be realistic, a grown man could kill quite a few first graders quite quickly and easily using just about anything. How many kids escaped in Newtown after hearing the gunshots? How many could he have killed in a bathroom one by one silently with a knife as they entered before someone realized what was going on? The problem that needs to be addressed is mental health, not weapons or guns. You can ask all day what someone needs with a 30 round magazine and the argument will go back and forth and never change anything. What do people need with a car that runs 100-120 mph when the speed limit is 70 mph at the most on an interstate? We could require govenors on all cars to reduce deaths in high speed crashes. What do people need with an 8 ft. swimming pool when 3' is all you really need to sit down in and cool off? We could reduce drowning deaths by restricting the depths of swimming pools. What do we need with 32 oz. soft drinks that cause diabetes? We can ban them or restrict their size to save lives... as a matter of fact, New York City just did that didn't they? Why do we need the First Ammendment and these comment boards when most fights and murders start out as verbal altercations anyway? Do we really need to say what's on our minds so badly that it's worth risking someone's life? Does any of that make any sense in a free country? No, it doesn't. Neither do any of the measures on the proposed assault weapons ban.

Losing a gun show is equivalent to losing a strip club in your neighborhood. All good.

clflan2-1

Ummmm.............most of you had better get your head out of your rear ends. THE SANDY HOOK SHOOTINGS WERE DONE WITH HANDGUNS AND NOT AN AR-15! NBC ADMITTED TO THAT ON AIR!

Geez what a bunch of Sheeple in America nowadays!

I was going to point out the same thing. The same source that wrote this article saying the AR-15 was used in the shooting, said just the other day that "new evidence" proves the AR-15 was in the trunk and 4 handguns were used in the shooting. Yet, today, they post this hoping to keep people thinking it was the AR-15 to push the agenda. It's disgusting.

Dick-2100935

"Who hunts with an assault rifle? Well, I guess it depends on the prey. I take that back".

I do. Feral hogs have exploded in my area and are doing massive amounts of damage to my farm and the farms surrounding mine. Just this past fall we witnessed over 80 of them destroy a peanut field in one night. It's gotten so bad that the SCDNR now allows these animals to be shot at night under a spotlight. While the .223 caliber bullet of my "assault rifle" as you call it is much smaller and weaker that the 7mm Mag. that I use for deer hunting, it is needed for the following reasons. The 7mm only holds 4 rounds and is a bolt action. Let's see you make a dent in the hog population trying to take out two a night as they scatter with the first shot and you fiddle with the bolt. The AR-15 with it's 30 round magazine and semi-automatic firing capability allows you to take down enough at one time to make a difference. The 7mm has a much longer killing range and much less drop over 300 to 500 yards, making it much more lethal and more dangerous to shoot, especialy at night vs. the much less powerful .223 that the AR shoots. The 7mm also costs me about $2.50 a round meaning that 80 feral hogs cost me at least $200 to eradicate. My .223 rounds cost me .35 cents/round meaning I can do the same job for $70, do it safer, and do it more efficiently than the 7mm bolt action rifle I mentioned above that has absolutely no "military-style" cosmetic features on it that seems to scare the living daylights out of ignorant liberals and starbucks drinking city dwellers everywhere.

I bet he could have done just as much damage with the same riffle with out the Assault style accessries that were on it. Going after assault riffles is nothing more than a political game.

Bottom line if you want to take my guns, you better bring yours.

Cnorton, where I live we have a big coyote problem. They kill livestock, and are death on wild game and game birds. My AR is a perfect choice for hunting coyotes. As you may know they run in packs and because the AR is light and easy to use it is perfect.

How about we make it illegal to kill people. I mean if we had laws against killing people then no one would do it right? Just like drinking and driving, underage drinking, drug use, abuse of prescription drugs, stealing, assault, attempted murder, child abuse, domestic violence, and lieing on federal forms. Under Fienstein's plan my 12 gauge would be banned, and you know the reason why? It has a pistol grip. I can take it off and replace the standard stock and it would be perfectly legal. Does that make any sense to any of you people?

Robert in Oregon,

We have known since Dec. 15, 2012, the day following the Newtown shootings that the weapon police found in the car was a shotgun. The weapon which was used to kill all 20 of the six and seven-year-old children was an AR-15 Bushmaster semi-automatic assault style rifle. The Connecticut State Police stated so in their press release on December 15. The Medical Examiner stated that all of the children's bodies were riddled with between 3 and 11 .223 bullets from the AR-15.

You are liar.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

Most (75%) of NRA members agree with a ban on anything over ten round clips, but the NRA does not agree with their members, this makes me think the problem is the NRA !!!

seaskip................you are full of crappola! I am in the NRA and I have not been polled and my stance on this is "not one more fri gging regulation or Law on Firearms!" Do you understand that? You had better.....................

Looks like you are part of that 25% that need machine guns to go deer hunting, its not the kids fault that you are a bad shooter, I was a member of the NRA, I dumped it - I don't need that kind of trash to Hunt !!!

seaskip. Source on that? Maybe Bloomberg or MSNBC makes that claim but I contribute very reguarly to the NRA and recieve email correspondence and mail from them almost every day. My wife, two sons, father, and myself are all members as well as I have countless friends who are also members. None of us have been polled on that......Not one of us. No one has proposed using machine guns for hunting. No wonder you dumped your NRA membership. If you can't understand the difference between a belt fed machine gun and a semi-automatic small caliber rifle, it's highly unlikely you're capable of understanding our (the NRA's) arguments. Why don't you stick to debating a topic you know something about?

seaskip,,,

First there is no such thing as a "10 round clip" "clips" will not work in any modern fire arm. Clips were used to load ammunition into the internal magazine of rifles like WW 2. The clips I have held 5 rounds and were used for my old Springfield 30-06. Now if you are talking about detachable magazines that is a different story. The only thing is that when you talk about something you should know what it is you are talking about.

And machine guns for deer, well that isn't even worth a laugh, if you really mean that you need serious help.

Modern Sporting Rifles??? Whose idea is it that mass murder or war is a modern sport? That is all that assault rifles are good for.

Oregon Robert has no reply when confronted with the truth......imagine that.......

Sow: Why don't you present some truth and see what Robert has to say. CNN reports

"Authorities now know the gunman used "an assault weapon" to "literally (shoot) an entrance into the building," Connecticut Gov. Dannel Malloy said"

When you continue to spread the old NRA lies over and over again, people get tired of them.

Don... what lies has the NRA told? Or do you just call anyone a liar if you don't agree with them?

Google: NRA caught in lie

then Google: MSNBC caught in lie

See how many credible stories you can find for each. The NRA may at times be called flawed for their interpretation of credible statistics or whatever but MSNBC has been caught numerous times just flat out making things up to support their views. CNN has their share of incidents as well. Not once has the NRA ever been caught flat out making up a statistic, story, etc. to further their cause. Yet, you call them liars and continue to quote known liars and their lies as facts. You don't want facts, you want a news organization (and a President) that tells you what you want to hear.

sittingonafence wrote:

"Ignore robert in oregon since he likes to ignor the truth and the facts. The AR rifle was never used and all of the victims were shot with handguns. That is the plain facts to the case. Robert should be ashamed of his lieing ways but he has no shame to begin with."

mpa-4893349

"Robt. in oregom ....Seems some government personnel were less than honest here. That ME has some questions to answer. But take comfort in the fact that you can always trust your government. LOL"

clflan2-1 wrote:

"Ummmm.............most of you had better get your head out of your rear ends. THE SANDY HOOK SHOOTINGS WERE DONE WITH HANDGUNS AND NOT AN AR-15! NBC ADMITTED TO THAT ON AIR! Geez what a bunch of Sheeple in America nowadays!"

Sow your seeds, not mine! wrote:

"Oregon Robert has no reply when confronted with the truth......imagine that......."

Mr.Steady wrote:

"Robert in Oregon, ...You are liar."

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

Sow your seeds, not mine! wrote:

Hey Robert in Oregon,..........shut your pie hole and watch this MSNBC news clip. Here you are spewing lies and calling peoples names and you don't even keep up with the news......what a hypocrit...I have no idea where you get your misleading information but the coroners report differs from your assessment.

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

.

.
You folks and others on this thread double-down on perpetuating your falsehood. What pieces of work you all are. You insist that a news report from the very first confused hours following the killings was the definitive, accurate information, ... but deliberately ignore all of the facts from the post-shooting investigation which have been released over the subsequent six (6) weeks since the shootings, including the corrections to the video you chose to link to, which were issued later that very same day by NBC News, on Dec. 15. In fact, the first nine (9) seconds of your video shows a black screen with white text reading as follows:

Editor's note: Later on Dec. 15, official's updated the public on this story.
For more details see: NBCNews.com/shooting-update

You either didn't bother to look, or hoped that no one else clicking on your link would bother to look. At that webpage URL, if you had bothered to look, you will find this:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15932666-conn-school-massacre-victims-all-shot-multiple-times-chief-medical-officer-says?lite

And this:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/50211056#50211056

And this:
http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50210025#50210025

I have no idea why you folks continue to dissemble, but it appears you have a personal reason why you are trying to make others believe that a Bushmaster semi-automatic assault style rifle was not used for these killings, despite the confirmations of that FACT by the FBI, the Connecticut State Police, the Newtown Police and the Medical Examiner that it was used for all 26 of the killings at the school. I repeat, .... ALL 26 OF LANZA'S VICTIMS AT SANDY HOOK SCHOOL WERE SHOT WITH THE BUSHMASTER .223 SEMI-AUTOMATIC ASSAULT STYLE RIFLE! No matter how many times you folks repeat and perpetuate your falsehood, you are not going to make it true.


STATE POLICE: ALL 26 NEWTOWN VICTIMS SHOT WITH ASSAULT RIFLE - Thursday, January 24, 2013
http://www.greenwichtime.com/newtownshooting/article/State-Police-All-26-Newtown-victims-shot-with-4220548.php
Lt. J. Paul Vance, the face of an ongoing Connecticut State Police investigation into worst grade-school shooting in U.S. history, Thursday debunked media and Internet reports that Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza killed his victims with handguns and not the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S rifle that is now the focus of a proposed federal assault-weapons ban.
All 26 of Lanza's victims were shot with the .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle, said Vance, who bristled at claims to the contrary during an interview with Hearst Connecticut Newspapers.
"It's all these conspiracy theorists that are trying to mucky up the waters," said Vance, the longtime state police spokesman.
Multiple Second Amendment and gun owner websites have attempted to cast doubts on whether the Bushmaster XM-15, a type of AR-15 rifle that is currently legal, was used in the Dec. 14 carnage done by Lanza.
Some have cited a Dec. 15 "Today" show video clip from the day after the shooting, in which NBC News Justice Department correspondent Pete Williams said that four handguns were recovered inside Sandy Hook Elementary School and that the Bushmaster rifle was found in the trunk of a car owned by Lanza's slain mother, Nancy Lanza
"There's no doubt that the rifle was used solely to kill 26 people in that school," Vance said.
Twenty children ages 7 and under and six female educators were killed when Lanza forced his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School and sprayed the occupants with bullets before turning a gun on himself.
Vance said he made it abundantly clear during his media briefings since the tragedy that Lanza carried out the shooting with the Bushmaster.
"I personally articulated that probably a dozen times in Newtown," Vance said.
The only time Lanza used a handgun at the school was to commit suicide, according to Vance.
The state police went so far as a to issue a news release on Jan. 18 listing the weapons recovered from inside the school, which included the Bushmaster, a Glock 10mm handgun and a Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun. An Izhmash Canta-12 12-gauge shotgun was taken from the trunk of the suspect's car.
Sales of AR-15 assault rifles would be banned under the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013, which was introduced Thursday on Capitol Hill and is being sponsored by Connecticut Sens. Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy, as well as Newtown's new U.S. representative, Elizabeth Esty. Democratic Rep. Jim Himes, whose district immediately borders Newtown, is also a co-sponsor.
"There's no question that the AR-15 was used, the Bushmaster shot those children with multiple rounds and was instrumental in the massacre," Blumenthal told Hearst Newspapers on Thursday after a Capitol Hill news conference. "Those children and educators might well be alive today if not for the assault weapon and high-capacity magazines."
A message thread titled "AR-15 was NOT used in Newtown CT Shooting!" appeared Wednesday on the website AR15.com, which accused media outlets such as CNN and host Piers Morgan of running with the story to promote its liberal anti-gun agenda.
"I remember in the initial hours of this shooting, the police said they found the rifle in the car," the anonymous poster wrote. "But the administration-controlled (mainstream media) had a pre-planned attack already waiting, to ban so-called assault weapons and jumped on that line of reporting, knowing it was a lie, which included people like Piers Morgan who said the shooter used an AR-15 that shoots hundreds of rounds per minute, as if it were a machine gun."
Blumenthal had not heard of the chatter.
"The shotgun was in the trunk of the car," Blumenthal said. "The Bushmaster and two pistols were brought into the schoolhouse."
In a statement, Himes questioned whether gun owners need the firepower of weapons like the Bushmaster.
"It does not take a military-style gun to kill a deer, have fun at the shooting range or protect your family," Himes said. "This bill strikes an ideal balance between keeping our communities safe and preserving the freedoms of American gun owners. I look forward to working with my colleagues to send this bill to the president's desk."
A message seeking comment from Bushmaster Firearms International was left Thursday at its Madison, N.C., headquarters.

Read more: http://www.greenwichtime.com/newtownshooting/article/State-Police-All-26-Newtown-victims-shot-with-4220548.php#ixzz2J4CaxGKv

Well, I'm done with the bunch of you dishonorable whackadoodles. I could post a thousand links to a thousand news stories and videos for you, but the bunch of you would just persist in perpetuating the falsehoods which support your conspiracy theories and personal agendas. So be it. Go put on your tin-foil helmets, load and fondle your guns, and say whatever you want, tell whatever lies you wish for whatever personal reasons you have.

Face it Robert, people are always willing to believe the side of the story that best suites them.

Even the revered NBC has reported that the AR was not used.

You refuse to acknowledge the latest reports, and that is fine. You may suppose that the origianl reports are true - they back your agenda.

Own it!

Sorry Robert.... even the official coroners report that all the bullets found in the bodies at Newtown came from the AR-15 is not enough to pursuade those who deliberately delude themselves. The NRA has been handing out paranoia and lies about gun safety for decades and these gun groupies just suck it up. It's like gun lust damages their brains or something. Anyway, a to the subject of this gun show, I salute those in charge of this show for their courage and good citizenship. Doing what is right has become too rare in this country. I hope they can hold out against the bullying of the NRA and the gun fever of the cowboy wannabes. Bravo!

Here you go Robert......watch it and weep......

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

Sow your seeds, not mine! wrote:

Here you go Robert......watch it and weep......

http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/50208495#50208495

So you just double-down on perpetuating your falsehood? What a piece of work you are. You insist that a news report from the very first confused hours following the killings was the definitive, acurate information, ... but deliberately ignoring all of the facts from the post-shooting investigation released over the subsequent six (6) weeks since the shootings, including the corrections to the video you chose to link to, which were issued later that same day, Dec. 15. in fact, the first nine (9) seconds of your video shows a black screen with white text reading:

Editor's note: Later on Dec. 15, official's updated the public on this story.

For more details see: NBCNews.com/shooting-update

You either didn't bother to look, or hoped that no one else clicking on your link would bother to look. At that webpage URL, if you had bothered to look, you will find this:

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/12/15/15932666-conn-school-massacre-victims-all-shot-multiple-times-chief-medical-officer-says?lite

And this:

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/nightly-news/50211056#50211056

And this:

http://video.msnbc.msn.com/msnbc/50210025#50210025

I have no idea why you continue to dissemble, but it appears you have a personal reason why you are trying to make others believe that a Bushmaster semi-automatic assault style rifle was not used for these killings, despite the confirmations by the FBI, the Connecticut State Police, the Newtown Police and the Medical Examiner that it was in fact used for all 26 of the killings. at the school. I repeat, ALL 26 OF THE VICTIMS AT SANDY HOOK SCHOOL WERE SHOT WITH THE AR-15 SEMI-AUTOMATIC ASSAULT STYLE RIFLE!

STATE POLICE: ALL 26 NEWTOWN VICTIMS SHOT WITH ASSAULT RIFLE - Thursday, January 24, 2013

http://www.greenwichtime.com/newtownshooting/article/State-Police-All-26-Newtown-victims-shot-with-4220548.php

Lt. J. Paul Vance, the face of an ongoing Connecticut State Police investigation into worst grade-school shooting in U.S. history, Thursday debunked media and Internet reports that Sandy Hook shooter Adam Lanza killed his victims with handguns and not the Bushmaster XM-15 E2S rifle that is now the focus of a proposed federal assault-weapons ban.

All 26 of Lanza's victims were shot with the .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle, said Vance, who bristled at claims to the contrary during an interview with Hearst Connecticut Newspapers.

"It's all these conspiracy theorists that are trying to mucky up the waters," said Vance, the longtime state police spokesman.

Multiple Second Amendment and gun owner websites have attempted to cast doubts on whether the Bushmaster XM-15, a type of AR-15 rifle that is currently legal, was used in the Dec. 14 carnage done by Lanza.

Some have cited a Dec. 15 "Today" show video clip from the day after the shooting, in which NBC News Justice Department correspondent Pete Williams said that four handguns were recovered inside Sandy Hook Elementary School and that the Bushmaster rifle was found in the trunk of a car owned by Lanza's slain mother, Nancy Lanza

"There's no doubt that the rifle was used solely to kill 26 people in that school," Vance said.

Twenty children ages 7 and under and six female educators were killed when Lanza forced his way into Sandy Hook Elementary School and sprayed the occupants with bullets before turning a gun on himself.

Vance said he made it abundantly clear during his media briefings since the tragedy that Lanza carried out the shooting with the Bushmaster.

"I personally articulated that probably a dozen times in Newtown," Vance said.

The only time Lanza used a handgun at the school was to commit suicide, according to Vance.

The state police went so far as a to issue a news release on Jan. 18 listing the weapons recovered from inside the school, which included the Bushmaster, a Glock 10mm handgun and a Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun. An Izhmash Canta-12 12-gauge shotgun was taken from the trunk of the suspect's car.

Sales of AR-15 assault rifles would be banned under the Assault Weapons Ban of 2013, which was introduced Thursday on Capitol Hill and is being sponsored by Connecticut Sens. Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy, as well as Newtown's new U.S. representative, Elizabeth Esty. Democratic Rep. Jim Himes, whose district immediately borders Newtown, is also a co-sponsor.

"There's no question that the AR-15 was used, the Bushmaster shot those children with multiple rounds and was instrumental in the massacre," Blumenthal told Hearst Newspapers on Thursday after a Capitol Hill news conference. "Those children and educators might well be alive today if not for the assault weapon and high-capacity magazines."

A message thread titled "AR-15 was NOT used in Newtown CT Shooting!" appeared Wednesday on the website AR15.com, which accused media outlets such as CNN and host Piers Morgan of running with the story to promote its liberal anti-gun agenda.

"I remember in the initial hours of this shooting, the police said they found the rifle in the car," the anonymous poster wrote. "But the administration-controlled (mainstream media) had a pre-planned attack already waiting, to ban so-called assault weapons and jumped on that line of reporting, knowing it was a lie, which included people like Piers Morgan who said the shooter used an AR-15 that shoots hundreds of rounds per minute, as if it were a machine gun."

Blumenthal had not heard of the chatter.

"The shotgun was in the trunk of the car," Blumenthal said. "The Bushmaster and two pistols were brought into the schoolhouse."

In a statement, Himes questioned whether gun owners need the firepower of weapons like the Bushmaster.

"It does not take a military-style gun to kill a deer, have fun at the shooting range or protect your family," Himes said. "This bill strikes an ideal balance between keeping our communities safe and preserving the freedoms of American gun owners. I look forward to working with my colleagues to send this bill to the president's desk."

A message seeking comment from Bushmaster Firearms International was left Thursday at its Madison, N.C., headquarters.

Read more: http://www.greenwichtime.com/newtownshooting/article/State-Police-All-26-Newtown-victims-shot-with-4220548.php#ixzz2J4CaxGKv

Just for the record takenaka, have you ever watched someone shoot a hangun for practice at a range? Do you realise how quickly a person can change out a magazine?, even if it holds 7 rounds? If somone intends to hurt people they really dont need the high capacity mags. And assault weapons are banned.......well not complety banned you can get a special license to posess automatic guns, which are the real deffinition of "assault weapons". AR's are one shot for each trigger pull, they are just scarry looking guns. no different from hunting riffles.

The silence is deafening . . .

Ban cars that run over 55 mph.

Isnt it just funny how gun proponents pick and choose the information they want to represent to gauge their argument for example more hammers were used to kill than rifles. Well what about the 6000+ handgun murders? Why leave out that little stat!
And dawn fan I believe it is illegal to kill people, problem is we need to kill the killers instead of warehousing them at public expense. This would stop some of the madness. There is no fear of repercussions.

Ban assault weapons and high capacity magazines.

Not going to happen.

I figure that when someone uses a shotgun to kill people, you will want to ban those next. Then handguns, bolt-action rifles...

And, of course, criminals will still have all the firepower they need.

If gun control worked, Chicago would be the safest city in the USA.

The liberals, progressives or whatever they call themselves are just trying to take away our rights and using one crisis after another to push forward their agenda. They say they want to protect human life, but don't mind slaughtering the human fetus.

Sow your seeds, not mine! said: "The liberals, progressives or whatever they call themselves"

I call them Communists.

guncite .com /gc2ndsup . html add your http//www. put it all together wont let me post a link

link didnt work before but here it is in case you would like to not be ignorant on the subject any longer.

Great post. #5 Everybody screaming they want THEIR rights as Americans and then wanting to take away from anyone who doesn't have the same view. Pffft.

In the USA, we are presumed innocent until proven guilty. Antigunners want to invert that for gun owners. Should gun owners be required to prove they are law abiding citizens before purchasing a firearm? Prove that I am NOT law abiding.

Target shooting.Home protection. Ask the woman in Atlanta who hid with her twins, if she would not have appreciated 24 more bullets. She hit her attacker 5 out of 6 shots and bluffed him by telling him she was going to shoot him again. The police caught him two blocks away. Good thing he was alone she was out of bullets.

Since when did the Freedoms of the American people or the Constitution only protect "needs"? The only people that should get just what they "need" are those persons convicted of a crime and sitting in a cell.

All firearms are designed to place a projectile into a designated area at a distance. There are many shooting sports that utilize semi auto firearms for example, the very popular 3 gun competition. The Olympic Games does not have a murder or killing event, yet semi auto shotguns and pistols can and are used (granted not a military looking firearm and limited to five rounds for that competition). But if a law abiding American "wants" to have a sporting rifle for target shooting with the ability to switch to smaller magazine for hunting then why not. People rarely if ever purchase Anything based on "needs".

Home protection.

Owning an AR-15 for home protection is like a lawyer owning a Dodge Ram 1500 for warm Sunday drives... Impractical!!!

Target shooting.

If you miss the bulls-eye the first couple shots, just spray and pray!!!

Ask the woman in Atlanta who hid with her twins, if she would not have appreciated 24 more bullets.

If I'm not mistaken, she used a .38 revolver. Unless the intruder was polite enough to wait for her to reload, what good would 24 more bullets do her? Oh wait, you're talking about high capacity rounds... Uhhh... She had a fricking REVOLVER!!!! DUH!!!

Nice avatar Chris. Hero of yours? He didn't want citizens but subjects and slaves to the Machine. Tells me a lot about you.

Gee, Chris Wanker, you might read and comprehend the comment before you pud-jerk your response.

Do you think Wild Bill missed the revolver in the story? Wild Bill indicated that the revolver was not as effective as was required.

You are a funny person.

Wanker is a a British term for Jack Off.

I suspect Chris knows a whole lot about wankers!

And the receiving end of glory holes.

Owning an AR-15 for home protection is like a lawyer owning a Dodge Ram 1500 for warm Sunday drives... Impractical!!!

So what brand and model of firearm, in your expert opinion, would be "practical"?

If you miss the bulls-eye the first couple shots, just spray and pray!!!

The original purpose of the NRA was to improve the marksmanship skills of the American public so as to provide a better pool of potential soldiers. It was formed by officers and former officers of the US Army and the Confederate Army, both of whom were rather distressed by the low quality of marksmanship exhibited on both sides. From the outset its major competition required that one use a firearm substantially identical to that used by the military. That continues to this day. So what brand and model of firearm should be used for that purpose, in your expert opinion?

If I'm not mistaken, she used a .38 revolver. Unless the intruder was polite enough to wait for her to reload, what good would 24 more bullets do her? Oh wait, you're talking about high capacity rounds... Uhhh... She had a fricking REVOLVER!!!! DUH!!!

What is your point? Oh, and if you saw Dirty Harry you would have seen a revolver with "high capacity rounds". You keep using this word. I am curious as to what, in your expert opinion, would constitute "rounds". Please, don't anybody else chime in, I know what rounds are, I want to know what he thinks.

The question pro-gunners NEVER answer in even a semi-serious way:

Why does any non-military American citizen need an AR-15 or any other weapon that has a 30-100 round cartridge? WHY?

Answer: None of your damned business. Just because you don't think someone needs something doesn't give you the right to try to take it away. It's my constitutional right and if you don't like it, Mexico is right next door.

Why does any non-military American citizen need an AR-15 or any other weapon that has a 30-100 round cartridge? WHY?

Because it is my RIGHT to do so.

Why do you need a car that can go faster than the speed limit?

We answer that all the time. You just don't listen. Read any of my previous posts on this article and you'll see. There. Question answered. Now answer mine. Do you know how many people are killed in high speed car crashes every year? Why are we allowed to buy and drive cars that exceed 55 mph? (Or 70 mph at the most to accomodate the interstate). Using your same argument that you use to support limits on magazine capacity, tell me why we allow cars on the road that are capable of 120 mph or more.... and we sell them to people without any training whatsoever. And if your car is capable of exceeding 55 mph, tell me why you need it to do so or tell me that you're willing to give it up or go put a govenor on it.

ChrisWanker said:

Home protection.

"Owning an AR-15 for home protection is like a lawyer owning a Dodge Ram 1500 for warm Sunday drives... Impractical!!!"

Nice avatar commie. Wish the rest of your Socialist friends on the left would be as bold as you and just admit what they are. Anyway, owning an AR-15 for home protection is not impractical. Here's my case for it:

• 5 home invasions within 5 miles of my farm last year. In each case there were 3 to 4 armed perps meaning the homeowner was up against not only 3 to 4 hostile people, but 3-4 hostile people with 6 to 10 shots per firearm. Explain to me how I'm not justified having 30 rounds in my gun up against 18 to 40 rounds while being outnumbered? Explain to me also how a six shot revolver under those same circumstances would have been sufficient protection?
• The accessory rail holds my laser allowing me to place shots with pinpoint accuracy in a high stress situation such as a home invasion. In other words, it makes the weapon safer in a closed room or building where innocent people are around by increasing accuracy and minimizing or eliminating stray rounds and misplaced shots. It also holds my iron sites for back up in case of battery failure as well as my holographic site which serves the same function as the laser stated above.
• The accessory rail holds the flashlight for me enabling me to keep both hands on the gun and therefore making the gun safer because I am more in control of my weapon than trying to hold the flashlight and gun at the same time should my home be invaded at night as was the case in all of the home invasions I refer to above.
• If the AR-15 would have been an "overkill" weapon for the homeowner to deal with the invaders described to you in the bullet points above..... then explain to me why you do not consider it an overkill weapon when a group of many policemen (each with their own AR-15 and 30 round magazines) went to go arrest the suspects in this case individually. Aren't they dealing with the same people the homeowner was? Is the threat not the same? How is the AR-15 a practical defense weapon for the police, but not the homeowner?
• And last but not least, you're not only a Communist, you're an idiot. Stay away from my Rights.

Most of these home invasions are done by people on crystal meth or bath salts and 6 or 8 rounds will not bring them down. They are like zombies. I would rather have my TEC9 or AR15 with 30 rounds per clip. One thing for sure, they might walk into my house, but they will not be leaving under their own power.

By this logic, no car should be sold in the USA that goes over 55MPH.

No one would be allowed to eat fast food, fried foods, or have soft drinks. Heart Disease kills just under 600,000 people a year. The main cause of Heart Disease is poor diet. We would be subject to raw fruits, veggies and water.

u r 2.

right..im making a simple observation about the conversation....and you are talking about glory holes...real intelligent....but at least you and 4 others acknowledge you are ignorant...

By all means back ground checks and I am all for gun safety courses for one and all. As for Ted, he is on a nation wide comeback tour at Indian Casinos.

I understand the need for a gun for protection of your self and loved ones. What I don't get is the so called claim to need an AR-15. I have no problem with people wanting one, but to do so, you should at least have a little bit of training on what that weapon is capable of.

So what is is capable of that a typical deer rifle is not capable of? Why would you want this training only for an AR-15 and not for, say, a Winchester Model 94? And what social problem would this training address?

And at a minimum, a gun safe to stor it in to keep it out of the wrong hands.

Would you also require this gun safe for a Model 94?

I don't think a background check and maybe some training is too much to ask.

Any sale by a licensed dealer, whether in his store, at a gun show, in the trunk of his car, or in the back woods, requires a background check. The "gun show loophole" is not specific to gun shows. It is specific to private sales by people who are not licensed dealers, whether at their stores, at gun shows, in the trunks of their cars, or in the back woods. You really should be aware of this if you go to gun shows often.

Now, once again what social problem is this training supposed to address? The problem at hand, since you seem to have forgotten, is that people take firearms into schools, theaters, and other crowded venues and start shooting people. It seems to me that the only effect that your training requirement would have would be to make these murderers more effective at murder. Is that what you want? If not perhaps you should rethink the idea of "training".

After all, the only bans being asked for are the ones Reagan (God of all Republicans, Former NRA member) put in place.

So what bans would these be? The only significant piece of firearms-related legislation enacted while Reagan was in office was FOPA '86, which rewarded the machine gun owners for 50 years of outstanding behavior by outlawing machine guns. The bans being asked for are similar to those that some guy named William Jefferson Clinton signed into law, that accomplished absolutely nothing, and that lapsed 10 years after due to their total lack of any discernible effect on violent crime. You really should get your facts straight.

If you have one of the weapons listed, you are grandfathered into owenership on it. No one is talking taking away your guns, just restrictions on future sales.

So, are you a mind reader or are you a congressional staffer? If neither how do you know what is being considered?

I don't know but something has to be tried and what is being proposed by the current adminstration may or may not save lives in the future. But it seems like it is worth a try.

The law you seem to be advocating was tried. It didn't work. So why try it again? How about instead we try locking up dangerous lunatics like we used to do in the '50s?

I'm sure as a Marine you learned that one of the rules of leadership is to do something promptly even if it's the wrong thing. We need to get out of the mindset that the job of Congress is to lead--that's the President's job. The job of Congress is or should be to do the right thing no matter how long it takes them to figure out what that is.

Your forgetting that predator more than likely will be better armed than you because he was able to purchase his firearm with no questions asked from your local gun dealer or Wal-Mart and he'll have the element of surprise !!!

No, I don't feel safer. in fact, I now worry that some member of law enforcement is going to come pounding on my door to count how many rounds I have in my legally purchased handgun.

Just think: They've gutted the Second Amendment, they are already trying to restrict the First Amendment (requiring you to get a permit to protest), and they ignore the Fourth Amendment. Why don't they just propose a Law that says "you have no Rights"?

And now they'll pass an amendment to this travesty saying Law Enforcement (and probably themselves) are exempt claiming it is so that Law Officers aren't 'outgunned' by the bad guys. Well what if I'm the one confronting that bad guy? Why should I be outgunned? Or what if some rogue Officer decides to go on a rampage? They are human, too.

I've never hurt a single person with any of my firearms. I am far more careful, considerate, and trained than over half the Law Enforcement of this State. And, honestly, it IS my Second Amendment Right to keep and bear arms. If you don't like it, move to a country that outlaws firearms.

Tell you what, you bring a bolt gun to Camp Perry and see how well you fare sport shooting against custom AR platforms. "Modern sporting rifle" is accurate. The platform is great for sport shooting, hunting, target practice, plinking. If you call yourself a "lifelong sportsman" and yet discount an entire class of shooting, I suggest you discontinue use of firearms completely and use a recurve exclusively.

JC, lifelong sportsman = been shooting pool since he was a kid . . .

But what if you don't eat prairie dogs or coyotes, skunks or raccoons? To each his own I always say. Not my favorite weapon by a long shot, just a matter of taste.

Paul -

You may have been confused by the name of the show and the title of the article.

Shooting sports involves more than just hunting. Think skeet, trap, competitive target shooting . . .

Never been varmint hunting? These do excellent on groundhogs. If you are a farmer, you welcome anyone who will rid you of these pests. Just because it isn't used to bring down elk or mosse doesn't mean a .223 is not an effective hunting rifle. .223 AR15 style rifles are not the only ones scorned. The AR10, typically a .308, is on that list. That round will take your elk, moose, deer, bear, or most anything else you put in front of it in the USA. The 7.62x39 is used in the AK47 and SKS. I've hunted with SKS and had success. and a .223 can take down a deer. However, the muzzle velocity combined with a small caliber is much more likely to punch a hole straght through a white tail, not leaving enough damage to actually kill it outright. It is much like a 9mm in that regard.

Or just doing pest control on feral pigs?

We use them for Coyote here in KY as well Matt.

This spake William of Field and Stream.

Hillarious.

Nora, they use them for coyotes here in NM, as we don't have much in the way of feral pigs, but I'm going to do a pig hunt trip to TX with my AK. (Mostly pest control -- a friend has a 2,000 acre lease, pigs are wrecking it, driving out the deer.)

Stalk a lot of ducks and geese, do ya?

joe,

HUH?! An AR-15 is NOT??!!! Gee, when I was in the Army we had both AR-15's and AR-16's which WERE assault weapons.

Sorry but no cigar.

I said "assault rifle" not assault weapon. This is a perfect example of what pisses me off. Incorrect use of terms and using terms interchangably that are not. An assault rifle is a fully automatic or burst capable rifle. An AR-15 is semi-automatic therefore by definition not an assault rifle. An "assault weapon" is whatever the media is calling it these days. As a former member of the military you should appreciate the importance of using the right term to describe the right hardware. Would you call a grenade a bomb? Or would you call a landmine an RPG? Is a tank the same thing as an APC? Of course not. Along the same lines, a semi-auto rifle is not an assault rifle.

"Assault Rifle" and "Assault Weapon" are not interchangable. One has a very well-defined meaning dating at least back to WW2, the other is a media invented term that didn't appear until the 80's.

Assault Rifle, US Army

“Small arms identification and operations guide.

By Harold Johnson

1970 US Army.

Assault rifle.

Assault rifles are short compact select- fire weapons that fire a cartridge intermediate in power
between a sub-machine gun and a rifle. “

It goes on to tell more. The term assault rifle is a term
developed by the US Army in 1970 and those rifles were “select fire” meaning
they could fire full auto or not depending on the selection of the shooter.

The term “assault weapon” was a term coined to describe the
weapons that the 1994 Clinton ban would effect.

Richard is a liar. He wasn't in the army. The army didn't issue him an AR-15 or AR-16. He would have been issued an M-16. The fact that he can't correctly identify the weapon he was issued shows he's a liar!!

He might just be having a "senior moment."

and no show to promote.

morals? How so? They were still willing to line there pockets selling guns, just not a specific type. The manufacturers are the ones who essentially cancelled the show by pulling out after this ridiculous stipulation.