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Erin Trieb for NBC News
Monica Velez, pictured in Austin, Texas, had two brothers, Jose "Freddy" Velez and Andrew Velez, both of whom served the U.S. military and both are now dead -- Freddy was killed in action in Iraq, and Andrew took his own life.
Before Army Spc. Andrew Velez left Texas for the final time, he asked his fragile sister to write him a promise – a vow he could carry with him to Afghanistan.
Monica Velez knew she owed him that much. In the horrid weeks after each had lost their beloved brother, Freddy Velez, to enemy fire in Iraq, Monica tried to end her life with pills and alcohol. Now, she put pen to paper: “I will not hurt myself. I will not do anything crazy. I know that Andrew loves me. I know that Freddy loved me.” Andrew folded her note and slipped it into his pocket.
“Don’t break your word to me,” he told her before heading back to war.
Seven months later, Andrew, 22, sat alone in an Army office at a base in Afghanistan. He put a gun to his head and committed suicide. Back in Texas, word reached Monica Velez who, once again, found herself in a dangerous place. Only now, she was alone. Days of alcohol and anti-depressants. Nights of dark thoughts: “It would just be better if I was gone.”
'The storm' is coming
As the U.S. military suicide rate soared to record heights during 2012, the families of service members say they, too, are witnessing a silent wave of self-harm occurring within their civilian ranks: spouses, children, parents and siblings.
Some suicides and suicide attempts — like those that ravaged the Velez family — are spurred by combat losses.
Others may be triggered by exhaustion and despair: As some veterans return debilitated by anxiety, many spouses realize it's now up to them — and will be for decades — to hold the family together.
Specific figures are lacking as no agency tracks civilian suicides within military families.
However, Kristina Kaufmann, a long-time Army wife, knows of three other Army wives, all friends, who took their lives in recent years.
Courtesy Kristina Kaufmann
"When you know that you are the anchor — and if you go down, the family's going down — the problem is that you can only do that for so long," said Kristina Kaufmann.
One was Faye Vick, described by Kaufmann as “the perfect picture of an Army wife — pretty, nice, always with a smile.” Vick and her family lived around the corner from Kaufmann and near Fort Bragg, N.C. In 2006, when Kaufmann’s husband was in Afghanistan and Vick’s husband was deployed overseas, the 39-year-old mother placed herself, her infant and her 2-year-old son in a car inside a closed garage and started the engine, asphyxiating all three with carbon monoxide, according to Kaufmann and to local news reports at the time.
“And I know of too many others through the grapevine,” said Kaufmann, executive director of Code of Support, an Alexandria, Va.-based nonprofit that seeks to bridge the gap between civilians and military America.
“When you know that you are the anchor — and if you go down, the family’s going down — the problem is that you can only do that for so long,” said Kaufmann. “That population (of spouses) is at the most risk. Because the storm is going to happen when everybody comes home. That’s where we are, unfortunately, going to see an uptick in lots of negative outcomes, including suicide, including suicide among the spouses.”
On Jan. 14, Department of Defense officials acknowledged that during 2012, service members committed suicide at a record pace as more than 349 people took their own lives across the four branches. The military suicide rate is slightly lower than that of the general public. However, one active-duty member died by suicide every 25 hours last year.
The Army sustained the heaviest branch toll at 182 suicides, which — as NBC News reported Jan. 3 — meant that soldier suicides outpaced combat deaths for the first time, according to Pentagon officials.
Defense Secretary Leon Panetta informed Congress last July that American armed forces are in the grip of a suicide "epidemic."
One of the darkest undercurrents of the glaring statistics is that one suicide in a family boosts future suicide risks for everyone else inside the home. They can be contagious, say experts like Dr. Barbara Van Dahlen, a psychologist in the Washington, D.C., area and the founder of Give an Hour, which develops networks of mental-health volunteers who respond to both acute and chronic situations.
Numerous researchers have explored the so-called contagion effect of suicides within families and “there’s no question the data supports there’s at least a doubling of risk,” among surviving family members, said Dr. Alan L. Berman, Ph.D., executive director of the American Association of Suicidology. The organization strives to better understand and prevent suicide.
“It’s understood that risk, in part, is biological," Berman said, given that disorders like depression have a genetic component.
“But it’s also based on social modeling behavior: The suicide of a parent presents a model (for children in that family) of how to deal with problems, and that’s no less true for a spouse.”
Added Van Dahlen: "The closer that family member is to you, the greater risk you’re at. We believe, psychologically, it opens the possibility and ends a taboo."
“The thousands of service members who have killed themselves,” she added, “they leave in their wake thousands of family members who are now at risk for that same kind of decision."
'I completely lost myself'
The cascade of Velez family tragedies began with pure valor.
On Nov. 13, 2004, Army Cpl. Jose “Freddy” Velez, 23, sprayed bullets at insurgent forces — covering fire to allow other U.S. soldiers time to retreat from an enemy strong point in Fallujah, Iraq. After his ammo ran dry, Freddy Velez was shot and killed. The Army awarded him the Bronze Star and Silver Star.
Courtesy Monica Velez
"There are days I'm still overwhelmed. And if I sit and think about it, I feel like I wouldn't have to live through all this pain if I just let myself go," said Monica Velez, who shared family photos of brothers Freddy and Andrew.
Andrew, then serving with another unit in Iraq, told Monica of escorting his brother’s body home to Lubbock, Texas — a job, he said, that required unzipping his brother’s body bag at every stop to re-verify Freddy’s identity.
During the trip, Andrew called his sister repeatedly while en route home and screamed into the phone for nearly two consecutive hours, “like somebody was killing him,” she said.
“There was nothing I could do,” Monica Velez recalled. “The operator kept cutting in (to request additional payment for the call) and I just said, ‘Add it to my credit card.’ He just wailed. That travel home, I think is what eventually broke him.”
Weeks later, Monica broke.
She doesn’t know how close she came to death the first time she tried to end her life. She never was told how slow her pulse became that night. She just remembers regaining consciousness at a hospital in Killeen, Texas — home to Fort Hood, where Freddy was based. She awoke with an IV plugged into her arm. A doctor handed her a list of local psychiatrists then discharged her.
Velez tried, she said, to seek help for her deepening depression but was told that her health insurance would not cover counseling.
Her grief was rooted in a difficult childhood, she said, that forged "tighter than tight" emotional bonds between Velez and her two brothers, turning the siblings into a mutual support group.
“When Freddy passed away, I went through a really hard depression,” she said. “I went to the emergency room for anxiety attacks. I couldn’t breathe. But nobody knew how to deal with me so they just gave me Ativan (an anti-anxiety drug) and Hydrocodone (a pain killer).
“I started drinking heavily and taking the prescriptions. And one day, I just felt it would be better off if I wasn’t around and decided to take all of the pills. Grief can bring you to that breaking moment.”
Soon after, in February 2005, Andrew sent his older sister (then 25) an email: “We need to be stronger. We need to protect each other.”
Though he was the youngest of the siblings, Andrew always was “the strong one,” his sister said. “But he and Freddy were inseparable.” Near the end of 2005, Andrew told his sister he was redeploying to Afghanistan because, she said, “I think he felt closer to Freddy there.”
From March through July of 2006, the two swapped calls and emails. In Afghanistan, Andrew grew increasingly despondent, she said, over the unraveling of his marriage and family in Lubbock. He had three children. But he worried, too, about his sister’s state of mind.
“We could both hear it in each other’s voices. He was scared I was going to do something. I was scared he was going to do something.”
He did. Andrew’s suicide on July 25, 2006, drove Monica, at first, into 20-hour workdays at a domestic violence shelter. She wasn’t sleeping or eating. Eventually, she was drinking again, “from the morning until I passed out,” she said. “Then, doing it again the next day.
“I completely lost myself. I resigned my job. I stopped paying my bills. I got evicted. I was prescribed anti-depressants. I noticed taking the pills and drinking got me out of the emotions. So I found myself in a dangerous place very quickly.
“Again — several trips to the ER (for overdoses). I’m not sure why I wasn’t ever held there. In my down periods, I would tell myself it would just be better off if I was gone.”
In 2008, a friend at Fort Hood, Texas, connected Velez with the Tragedy Assistance Program For Survivors (TAPS), a resource for anyone who suffers the loss of a military loved one.
“That was the first time anybody had offered to help me with the depression and the grief.” she said.
'Family units breaking down'
Kaufmann, who lost three Army-spouse friends to suicide, argues that military-family suicides should be tracked and researched by the Department of Defense to help mental-health experts begin to slow or stop the problem. She knows, however, such an accounting is not likely.
“I get the sense that people in the military think that by including families into this kind of discussion — particularly when you’re talking about the (broader) mental-health impacts on family members — they look at that as something that will only add to the problem. Whereas, we believe that it would prove to be a solution,” Kauffman said.
“We’ve approached this very myopically. More than half of soldiers are married. Soldiers come with families. And the military has a maddening way of both dismissing families and holding them accountable at the same time. It’s frustrating for us, not only when we’re trying to get our husbands help, but also when you have the family units breaking down,” she added.
NBC News requested to speak with officials at the newly formed Department of Defense suicide-prevention office about the issue of suicides within military families and whether tracking is needed. A DOD spokeswoman said, however, that the office is only working to address active-duty suicides. The interview request was not granted.
Van Dahlen, meanwhile, believes that asking DOD to track military families is an unreasonable expectation to place on the agency when it already is facing budget cuts.
Even if the DOD wants to — and many of my colleagues there desperately would want to devote resources to this — those resources are not going to be there,” she said. Rather than putting "the screws to DOD" and doing "even more with even less," Van Dahlen believes public-private partnerships should be encouraged "to figure out how we can (address) this together."
'Like an airborne disease'
More than eight years after Freddy’s combat death, and more than six years removed from Andrew’s suicide, Monica Velez annually runs the Marine Corps Marathon in Washington, D.C., in honor of her fallen brothers.
Matt Slocum / AP file
Monica Velez cleans her brother's name, engraved in a memorial at Fort Hood, Texas.
But, now living in Austin, she acknowledges she still struggles with what she calls, “those thoughts.”
“There are days I’m still overwhelmed. And if I sit and think about it, I feel like I wouldn’t have to live through all this pain if I just let myself go. It doesn’t just go away. But you learn how to cope. You learn better coping skills,” she said, adding she gained those tools from TAPS.
Army officers at Fort Hood have occasionally asked her, she said, for ideas to help them prevent the rising military suicide rate. She watches that tally, too.
“The numbers take my breath away. I know it can be overwhelming for the Army generals on the other end of the table trying to figure this problem out. Because it’s like an airborne disease going through the building and you’re trying to figure out how to stop it before it gets to you," she said.
“But it’s coming at a really fast rate, and it’s inevitable.”
Related stories:
Military suicide rate set record high in 2012
The enemy within: Soldier suicides outpace combat deaths in 2012
Some wounded vets shine on 'Alive Day,' others wear black
Leave a Comment:
It's a wonder considering the kind of leadership that is in the military today. When you have upper leadership dish out mass punishment for the acts of 2 or 3 says something about it. No wonder the rate is going up!
The US government and military will hike our taxes to explore every possible solution or cure to this military suicide "epidemic" but of course avoiding wars will not be part of their findings.
"Live by violence, die by violence."
Why Lindsey Graham and John McCain conveniently "forget" talking about this issue every time that they want to continue the war machine?
The DRAFT should be re-installed in this country the next time that a politician decides to go to war.
if the suffering is spread to all those people that love to buy guns to keep them in the attic, the whole concept of weapons and war will CHANGE FOREVER IN THIS COUNTRY.
GCK, what option would you suggest to avoid war? Surrender? When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor with the goal of putting our Pacific Fleet out of action, to establish Japan as the dominant force in the Pacific would you have advocated "Let'em?" War is simply international politics taken to the highest level so if America plays on the world stage, as it should, war unfortunately becomes a option. As for the suicide rate, I've served and it's a fact that some people are just not compatible with military service, there are avenues to take, like a good friend I knew, he was going to be drafted eventually so he enlisted in the Ar Force, first time in Basic he threw the Airman back down the stairs when the guy came up bellowing; "Everybody up!" Words to that effect, lol. After counselling it was determined that he was incompatible, and that was the reason given for his release. Anyway, suicide happens when a person becomes incompatible with life and there isn't much that can be done about that, it happens in civilian and in military life.
Generally, leadership only use mass punishment when the unit either isn't or doesn't know how to police themselves. If someone is doing something stupid (baring committing felonies and the like) it's a sure bet that other members of the unit are present and have the ability to stop the Service Member from doing whatever stupid act is going to make them hit the blotter.
So-called mass punishment isn't the cause of the suicides going on. I will posit that the uptick is most likely due to poor leadership in that leaders are not engaging their Soldiers more and seeing about their well being. Far too often you see leaders who are merely worried about themselves and how they look on paper. As a Soldier you are more than your next NCOER/OER. You have to be a parent to Soldiers. Sometimes you have to take care of them as if they were own children. Many leaders are not teaching their Soldiers how to "play the game" anymore. They are merely worried about their next promotion and the @ss they have to kiss to get there. That's not the military that I joined but it is the military today and it's a shame.
Young men today are not as tough mentally as previous generations, when you look at the men who fought in WW2, Koran War you have to acknowledge that they were mostly farm raised men who used guns, didnt always eat good and didnt spend a lot of time in the house. Today recruit hasn't a lot of experience with the reality's in life. War or even real life probably comes as more as a shock to them than those previous generations.
It is Obvious that living in Asia knows very little about the military other than tv shows and video games.
I have, and will ALWAYS say this at every opportunity: there should be an article MANDATING that EVERY child (regardless of GENDER) of every fat aSSed politician who prosecutes a war should be the FIRST to be sent to the front lines. Maybe then they'll quit harboring this pinheaded, asinine notion of being the liberator of the world.
The GOP needs to stop with cutting programs that support our troops when they come home.. suicide is not new, it's just now getting the attention it never received.. My Dad WWII, Uncle Korea, brother Vietnam... wake up people. War is a life long nightmare to those that see combat... idiots..
Square dude: I read an account of Korean War Allies captured and kept in N. Korean camps. GI's in one, Turks in another, Brits in another. Many US suicides and many died of malnutrition. Turks under same conditions had almost no camp casualties. The ability to cope was the difference. Turks came from a hard life and the hardships of prison camp were understood by them so they figured out how to cope. GI's came from a different culture not normally dealing with same kind stress and hardship. They didn't not figure out how to cope as fast. Accounts of Vietnam pilots imprisoned in the Hanoi Hilton are incredible for their ability to cope and suffer incredible torture and deprivation. The mental abilities of combat pilots are very different from rank and file ground pounders. The ability to figure things out and adapt is a large part of the formula as is experience. The differences between a US citizen's daily life and a military member in one of our wars for profit (as opposed to a war against a nation attacking the US) is huge. Knowing they are in a war but the US itself is not being attacked is an intuitive impediment to adapting and accepting. We need to get out of these places. Bring the troops home. Stop getting entangled in these foreign alliances.
When morality is lost and immorality becomes the normal the country is dead. Homosexuality and atheism has always been a part of the military, but now it is wrong to cry out to God for help, they are removing the cross from military churches, they are forcing Chaplins to marry same sex people. Obama is suceeding in his agenda to destroy America. The leaders who were elected to stand up against immorality and justice and freedom are are now joining those whose total agenda is to make America another China or Soviet Union. Immorality is rampant in the American government as is being reported practically every week. Adultery has become the normal since Clinton and since nothing was done to him for this. I do not believe America will be healed and is on a downhill spin toward destruction. God will not be mocked.
Suicide is a trend in FAMILIES, not just military families.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12387960
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8956681
The headline is a bit overblown in that regard. (From NBC? Really?)
no one should have to do 2-3-4-5 tours in a combat zone! when will the dumb azzes in washington figure this out. this is not like ww1 and ww2 when you had a clear cut enemy and no clouded rules of engagement. usn 1970 -74.
The thing that stands out to me, was that Ms. Velez's medical insurance would not cover her counseling. I can just picture some fat cat sitting in an office saying "There's no profit in counseling someone who's depressed! Let her kill herself so we don't have to keep paying out for the rest of her coverage! Miss Buxom, another martini!"
That's what's wrong with this country. The Greedy Obstructionist Party only looks at the money. The bottom line. They do not now, and never have had any compassion for the human costs.
The Defense Department spent $718 Billion in 2011. Their budget has gone up 114% in the last 12 years.
IReadyou, please provide links to your statistics.
I think the one single factor in this unacceptable increase is the insane Op-tempo of the current military, something unlikely to change since troop strength will likely be the first thing to get sliced by the budget ax (when it should be the last). It's hard to be part of your own life while serving on active duty, particularly while deployed, or even worse, if you're stationed overseas.
Our military represents a cross section of our society so you end up with all of society's traits, good and bad. We live in impatient, instant gratification times, and being in the military, particularly the Army or seagoing Navy will prevent you from freely participating in our WFO 24 / 7 society. The Army in particular has become little more than a deployment mill the past decade (I left Germany in September, 2009 just after a 14 month deployment and our unit has deployed for a year and come back since and will be rolling out again soon). That is something that's hard for all soldiers to deal with, but in particular young ones, who don't have the patience of their more seasoned comrades.
As far as being mentally tough, while that is somewhat true for the majority of young people today, there are also young and not so young adults who are not only mentally tough, but seemingly have no conscience (see Abu Ghraib). Dealing with these sociopaths can be hard on those who aren't tough or have a conscience .
My bottom line is life sucks, but NOTHING warrants the premature ending of it. The military suicide rate has been unacceptable for some time and someone in a position of authority had better get off their a$$ and start making a higher priority of addressing it !!
Dual Service (U.S. Navy, U.S. Army) Combat (OIF 08-09) Veteran
Regardless of anyone's personal views, what is most important is the fact that the suicides are taking place. PTSD has always existed, it just didn't have a name before. We are also better able to track our returning soldiers now to get a good look at the numbers. Suicide is devastating to loved ones - that's how my husband died. It's not something that you can reconcile with. These families need a lot of support and compassion from their fellow Americans who don't question the "metal" of those who have taken their lives. Everyone has a breaking point. They also need to have access to the appropriate mental health care to deal with the fallout. I feel for those who are having to experience this.
Hey great post jerry... Srsly. I can see this seed is going to be a lightning rod for ignorance and stupidity. I can't even begin to address all of the idiocy contained in your screed suffice to say that religious dumb-f**kery like that is what's wrong with America these days, not allowing homosexuals to serve without fear of retribution.
Hotticket, I'll go better than that. EVERY child in this country, upon graduating from HS should serve at least 2yrs in the military before being accepted in any college. That goes from the rich politicians kids, the hollywood crowd, EVERYONE.
Government pawns
janine this is the practice of a few countries and it works very well. it gives you a real reason to buckle down and study when you see what the other options are!
Knowing they are in a war but the U.S. itself is not being attacked I think the bombing of the World Trade Center (1993), bombing of the USS Cole (2000) and destruction of the World Trade Center (2001) qualify as attacks as do the scores of U.S. citizens murdered by Islamic Jihadist terrorists going back two generations (starting with the bombing and destruction of TWA Flight 841 on September 8th, 1974, killing all 88 on board). While not all may make the grade as the U.S. itself being attacked, the destruction of a New York City landmark and slaughter of 3000 (with a goal of 50,000+) innocent people is absolutely an attack of the U.S. itself.
There's little doubt that the attacks of September 11th, 2001 were acts of war that justified a strong response. Too bad we failed to finish our business in Afghanistan before getting involved in far less justified action in Iraq and too bad a decade later our business still hasn't concluded, with the result being that many Afghans are tired of having coalition troops as their "guests" and are willing to collaborate with their enemies to try and speed our exit
So let us put women on the frontline, because that will help to fix this problem.
Mental health benefits, counseling benefits are small in most health plans. There is a reason for this. I am not advocating or pushing one view or the other just relaying what I've been told by insurance industry folks over the years. With a physical medical condition the results of treatment can be measured by the patient, other non-medical people as well as the medical pros. IF one day the patient no longer needs medical care they return to a normal life - the treatment ends. The expenses stop. The insurance co's can deal with it. With mental health the experience is that as long as there are benefits the patient needs treatment. they cannot measure progress or cure. The expenses never stop. This is what they say they experience. Because of the Sandy Hook tragedy and other assault weapon tragedies there is a new call for people to receive (unlimited) mental health benefits. The medical community and the bill payers are going to have to figure out how to do this responsibly. Just creating another massive program with the idea of dumping vast sums of money on a problem will produce the same results as it has in so many other areas. There will be success stories to report, but the national debt gets much worse, and there will be failures too along with reports of massive fraud, waste and abuse.
WAR - what is it good for? ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Our wars of aggression have ruined our country in more ways than just financially.
And what's the VA doing to help our soldiers and their families mental health needs? Nothing.
The current administration ignores vital issues and instead focuses on political gain. Attempts at gun control are a waste; immigration is a joke; our fiscal situation is a nightmare. People voted for this?
"The president has made it definitive," Kerry told the Senate Foreign Relations Committee Thursday during what is expected to be an easy confirmation process. "We will do what we must do to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon, and I repeat here today, our policy is not containment. It is prevention, and the clock is ticking on our efforts to secure responsible compliance."
Yayyyy! C'mon El Duce! Get us in yet another war to expand the empire!
Max, you have a mind-set that needs to be questioned, what wars of aggression? What war have we ever started having as a goal the conquering of another country? It would help your agenda if you defined "War of agression." Lol, we've ended some wars of aggression that were begun against us but we never started any of our own and that's true from the Wat of 1812 up to today including our war presently waged in Afghanistan and previously in Iraq. Wars of aggression are fought to gain something and we didn't gain anything when we went into Iraq and we probably won't gain anything after Afghanistan, other than letting the world of predators know that we're willing and able to use the "Big stick." Like a old warrior told me once; "When you're #1, and it's good to be #1, it's necessary at times to kick some ass to let it be known that #1 isn't to be messed with." Sure, that's harsh and cruel at times but that's the world we live in. It's a world made by Man and that's the way Man is. Can America rise above that? Sure, easy to do, just renounce violence and become passive victims while the predators gather to fight over the carcass of a once proud and strong America.
Bring the troops home leave Afghanistan to the evil that they are.
The military will do nothing about this besides drugging the troops and their family. They wont because to do so would reveal that mental problems are easy to handle if you know how and that it would take a couple of hours to learn the method.
You would say, if it's that easy they would have done it already! Well, the problem for the military and the powers that control this country, is that the method that would help eliminate this problem would also free the mind and make it difficult to lead the nation by the nose. They don't want us to be more free, they want obedient lambs they can turn into murdering psychos when they want us to be so.
Very disturbing and the number of tours expected of soldiers (and their families) is debilitating.
Extended family members most likely have underlying depression/mental health and/or alcohol/substance abuse issues? The vast majority of current soldiers and spouses are in the same age group of civilians that have high tendency toward alcohol/substance abuse, grew up w/Ritalin, etc.
Historically, how have spouses and family of police officers and firefighters dealt successfully with the daily stress of possibly each DAY being their last, one endless tour until retirement?
mellowfello1526615
This country could start by not starting the war. Our nation has not been attacked by another nation's military since Pearl Harbor, yet we have taken part in numerous incursions and occupations since, always with the premise of spreading democracy while toppling democratically elected governments that happened to not be capitalistic in design. And before anyone says it, I am not forgetting 9/11. However, 9/11 was accomplished by, not another nation's military, but by a ragtag criminal organization.
Didn't they say that the suicide rate was lower than the general public?
Excessive tours are debilitating.
The vast majority of soldiers and spouses are of the same age group as civilians, with a tendency toward alcohol/substance abuse since high school age, Ritalin in youth, etc. (+Extreme stress on top of that.)
How have police, fireman and their spouses and families dealt with the daily stress of each day they walk out the door possibly being their last or being injured...every day until retirement?
RS1- I am sorry for your loss.
The military complex does NOT give a sh.t about human life, for them it is ALL about PROFIT. Every politician that votes for war should have at least one of their family member serve in front lines where the action is.
REALITY CHECK:
No one wants anyone to commit suicide. But the suicide rate for military and their families is still much lower than many other demographic categories, such as "residents of New Mexico". Arrticles like this are just anti-military propaganda from the Leftists at NBC. Don't let this sort of biased reporting fool you.
Stonepipe2 - Thank you. This Saturday makes 8 years for my daughter and I. Tough day, especially for her. She felt abandoned by her dad, even though she can understand he was mentally ill now.
They go through it in all wars. Killing is not a normal human response to disagreement.Once you have killed you are now a different animal.Then you become a human again and you regrees to dissapointment in yourself. Lets follow the lead of the Republican Party and have some more war
uaw - what a ridiculous statement. The United States has an all volunteer military. No one forces anyone that is serving to enlist.
We have the best military in the world. Our troops are well trained and well armed but they are doing something that their fathers who fought in Vietnam didn't do, they are being deployed multiple times to the war zone. During Vietnam, you were drafted (into the Army) for two years, sent to war for one year and returned home and discharged (if you wanted to be). Today, our all volunteer army faces a different "war cycle." They come home briefly and sent right back again. There is no respite for them or their families. It makes me sad to know we aren't taking care of our troops. On another note, we don't have any official records of the number of suicides for WWII or Korea, so it is hard to say they were tougher or better men and women, I'm sure if we could go back and accumulate the data, we would find their suicide rates would be high too.
I am ex-military and i have a long history of clinical depression. My opinion is that America is changing. In ways alot of us republicans cant handle. We would love nothing more than the opportunity to fight for our beloved constitution, but this is a fight at the ballot polls. All America means to me anymore is a big bright flashing light to draw you near like a moth. As we give away citizenships and give away food stamps, print money and borrow money, we dimminish what little pride we had left. After that last election i dropped my guns off at my dads place unloaded so he wouldnt be tempted to use one on himself either.
We have never been involved in a military mission of the types we've had over the last 12 years. Multiple deployments, little down time, and civilian populations ready to suicide bomb our troops. The guys and gals do not know where the next assault will come from and many doubt the value of our endeavor, its no wonder that PTSD is exacerbated and that suicide has reached epidemic proportions.
There was no need for this to happen, we didn't need to occupy and nation build, the national leadership has failed at all levels. Yes we were attacked, but that doesn't mean we have to build that country into our own image, it all could have been very surgical and neatly done and finished, if our only mission was to go in and clean out the viper nest, but generals don't like that, they do love mission creep, and so do our industrialists. That is where the problem lays, when so many of our politicians are in bed with the industrialists and there are profits to be made, then that is where the policy decisions go wrong.
Feel sorry and have pitty on the soldiers.
BUT it is all so predictable or should have been for the politicians in Washington who are sitting in a cushy job on their big fat asses. GWB was an prime example of what they should not be. And a draft dodger to boot.
Remember this isn't over yet by a long shot. And ofcourse more wars to come by curtousy those dumb bast*rds in Washington. All to please the military industrial complex. Want to buy the F-35 fighter at what $140 million a piece. We are only getting about 2000 of them. No shortage of money for that.
pro freedom------------- this is not true i go to va hospitals all the time and its some of the best care out there. ive seen some of the reagular hospital care and i would rather go to my va. of course the va i use alot of the drs come over from dartmouth which has some pretty good drs.
Wow, again so my arm chair experts. On military protocol, combat, the number of tours, all and never having served a day in the military I'll wager. So you think multiple tours is new, wrong. My Dad was extended for the "Duration" of WWII. Same for my Grand dad in WWI. I did 4 tours in Vietnam. Odd, how this is only an "epidemic" in the current war.
So what has changed? Could it be the government, while giving lip service to troop support in fact turns their back and a blind eye? Oh wait, the government would never lie to us, would they? Given there are 250,000 Vietnam Vets who are homeless in this country, I would say they have been doing just that for much linger than you 20 something experts know.
Sadly. if you think it's bad now, just wait. Now that women have been cleared for front line combat duty, we will see the "epidemic" explode expediently, I'm afraid. Like it or not, politically correct or not, It is a scientific fact, Men and women process traumatic events quite differently. Women tend to not handle the sort of constant gore and violence combat heaps upon a soldier well. Some will , of course, many more will not. There are exceptions to every rule, of course. Sadly, in the quest for "equality", all we have done is expose women to the same horror we have long expected our men to endure. Again some didn't. One thing is certain, we will now have generations of women with the same nightmares, the same regrets, the same demons our men have had to endure.
Combat duty and the things attendant with it, NEVER leave you once you've been there. Men have had the stories of their fathers to help prepare them for what they would face, not so our daughters, This was not the sort of thing you told your daughter, for the larger part. One did not tell your daughter of the men you killed in combat, of the ones that were incinerated by napalm or flamethrower. No, these were not the stories to tell a daughter. But knowing your son may be called to fight, you would relate them to them. Advise them to avoid combat service, if possible. Impressed upon them that the demons that accompany combat duty were profound and life long. At least I tried to convey this to my sons. Now perhaps, I will have to start telling my grand daughters, in the hope that maybe, just maybe, they won't join up in some misguided since of feminine peer pressure.
Sadly, only time will tell. This opens an even darker chapter to the combat horror show. As badly as our men were treated by the Germans, Vietnamese, Arabs, etc. Abuses heaped upon them comparable only to the treatment of Nazi prisoners, can you even imagine what these "none signatories" of the conventions of Geneva will do to female prisoners? This will only present a new atrocity to heap upon the infidel. I fear for these women who are captured in these "less than progressive" area's of the world. And I'm sure the government will be forth coming and "transparent" of this to the American people. Heard anything of those two rescued female troops rescued in Iraq a few years ago? Anyone remember their names? Or perhaps, how up front they have been about all the homeless vets, turned away by the V.A. who end up dieing alone and sick under a bridge.
HOTTICKET-2304234,
And every politician that votes to raise taxes should donate all their money to the US as well I assume?
Nailed it. Now THAT'S the best idea YET I've heard on these boards. If YOU had ran for President on that platform, you'd have blown the doors off the OBAMADOLT machine from here to Hanoi.
No, but unfortunately somebody has to. Until they bring back the draft, those that volunteer are looking at this. My husband retired almost 2 years ago, he can still be "brought back" almost indefinitely if they needed him.
Prayers will go out. Hats off.
If the law was changed so that all hand guns were made Class III fire arms and must be registered with a $200 tax and a through background check before a person could legally buy one, this kind of thing would not happen. Maybe soldiers and veterans should be added to the list of people prohibited from possessing fire arms. They could have B-B guns or paint ball guns since those can not be used to commit either suicide or mass murder with. Many lives would be saved.
It's lamentable when I can't even read an article anymore without wondering what the real message is behind it. Suicide is preventable, but necessarily by leadership action. About all leadership can do is offer an annual suicide prevention class, but the factors involving suicide are generally very personal and varied. Someone can take a SPC and still end their own life. Essentially, I think the answer to this "epidemic" rest with the soldiers themselves. They need to maintain a positive outlook.
Davey....what the hell is wrong with you....
Now to the issue at hand...the major problem is lazy, detached, undeserving leadership in the military. I was in one of the Brigades with the highest suicide rates, and I can easily say it was the absolute worst leadership I experienced in all my military career. Half way Through we get a new Colonel and he Replaces a few Battalion commanders and a few company commanders after having Sensing sessions (where the leaders sit down with a group of typically lower ranking soldiers to find out whats really going on in their unit). The new commanders start doing alot better and under the guidance of the Colonel start listening to soldiers and their needs, and after a while, guess what the suicide rate starts to plummet, after a year or two we got down to no suicides for the fiscal year. Not only did the suicide rate go down, but so did the misconduct rate and the quality of work went up. WHat I take from this and have seen proven true many times over in my career was the fact that leadership in the Military is generally lazy, and undeserving of the position. The idea that a college degree means you are more capable of leading soldiers into combat that someone who has 3 times the experience at it than you is absolutely rediculous. If this brigade had issues with Suicide and to remedy it they had to make leadership changes from the top to the bottom, and the problem is military wide, then maybe leadership changes need to be made from the top to the bottom there.
From the day we waged war on Iraq to 2005 we more than doubled the Department of Defense funding. With the extra 350billion dollars a year plus plus, we did not give one red cent to the actual soldiers we sent to the two differant war fronts created by the same administration we allowed to double the DOD fund. In fact we actually sent them without proper and adequate armor and unprepared to fight the two wars with absolutely no exit strategy to bring them back home to their families. As we are now nearing the end of the second war it is time to divert that excessive funds to the military families themselves and help them to recover and rebuild their lives. The funding is necessary and well earned by these soldiers and their families and we owe it to them to help them rebuild their lives.
CLEARLY, mental health and the integrity of one's childhood and family unity is ONE powerful factor in selecting or rejecting PEOPLE to go into the military PERIOD.
People with "stressful childhoods" that don't have a father present or mother present, learn PAINFUL dysfunctional family patterns, because "Her grief was rooted in a difficult childhood, she said, that forged "tighter than tight" emotional bonds between Velez and her two brothers, turning the siblings into a mutual support group." These emotionally damaged people should be supported as victims from childhood and WE as a culture should have the compassion to support them with psychological therapy (that Regan ended - so the rich don't have to pay as much tax).
These suicides are the REAL COST OF WAR.
Wake up! War Is The Enemy ! !
Always go to the top of the chain of command, and there you shall find the source of all ills. The head moves the body. If I were a young person......well.....it would be a most unhappy choice to fall into the U.S. military. Shame on Washington.
What???
Did you ever spend time in the Military? I did...20+years. Most kids who join the military never fired a weapon in their lives, and that includes during WWII and Korea. Most of them came from cities and were never on a farm. I am a Vietnam era veteran who retired in 1999; which means I served with WWII veterans, Korean veterans, Vietnam veterans, Cold war veterans, Persian Gulf war veterans, Bosnia and Kosovo veterans and helped with the reintegration of OEF/OIF veterans.
None of them are any tougher than the others. Stop watching war movies and believing they are real. I once had a young Iraqi war veteran ask why WWII veterans didn't suffer from PTSD. I told him about my father and 3 uncles who had alcohol issues and serious anger management issues. They just didn't call it PTSD then.
A veteran can come home, get a job and work his whole life with no one knowing anything is wrong. Then he retires and has time on his hands...time to remember. I have friends who served in Vietnam, functioned normally for years (40 or more) after the war with no outward problems...until they retired and the memories they put away came home. Doesn't happen to everyone but it does to some. When I was on the Soldier Reintegration team we always tried to get a returning soldier back to work as quickly as they were ready. Too much spare time is not good. With this economy, too many veterans have too much spare time.
Ireadyou, Doc, everyone has their idea of what has caused this rash of suicides. Low morale because the soldiers don't know what they're fighting for? Too much time on their hands because the returning veterans can't find work? Pre-existing mental problems among the servicemen who joined the Army because they couldn't make it in civilian society?
Suicide is violence turned inward--at least in the Western world. [We don't have the custom of Seppuku to atone for failure.] Violence must be channeled appropriately, by professionals, among active or returning soldiers. The people described here clearly had violent home lives before they ever joined up and that is entirely a separtate issue.
As a mental health professional, I am appalled but not surprised by these statistics. When we command a person to kill or maim other human beings, including women and babies, we are asking them to go against the basic human instinct of preserving life. These acts of killing others like oneself, as well as having one's life on the line day after day, month after month, year after year, brings on severe post-traumatic stress disorder(PTSD). This is an extreme form of anxiety disorder, combined with guilt and shame, that is so intense that it makes it difficult to ever live a normal life again. Relationships are impossible to maintain, sleep is impossible, and one's waking life is a nightmare of fear and flashbacks. And this is the price of going to war: an experience you cannot even imagine. Do not be fooled. Going to war does not make you stronger, does not make you more of a man (or woman), but can cause a mental illness that makes you want to kill yourself. And the one's responsible for this, the Bechtel's and Halliburton's and other corporations who are raking in the profits, are leading us to believe that wars are necessary for our safety and survival. Do not be fooled. The military industrial complex is a huge profit-making venture for the few at the very top, and is sacrificing our sons and daughters lives as well as those who happen to live in the country that they are occupying, for the spoils of war. War has no other purpose than this. I am outraged by the fact that the corporations are not paying one penny for mental health care for our returning soldiers, but are asking people to volunteer. What gall. Please do not encourage your children to join the military, for they will be drastically changed by the experience just so that other's can make a huge profit.
Square Dude...... during ww2 and the Korean war the average age of the soldiers was mid to upper 20s around 26 years and older. So yes those soldiers were more stronger mentally than the kids we are sending to war these days. It was during the Viet Nam war that the age was lowered to 18 to get more bodies to send into war.
Many of these kids join the Forces because it provides the only opening for a job or some sort of career path for them that they will definately not find in the private sector, which has been shrinking its workforce for the longest time now.
Look how many factories and other companies have closed down and sent their jobs overseas to places like China and India and even to Viet Nam these days since the early 2000s once Bush became President. It was about outsourcing overseas all those factory jobs blah blah blah because the USA was going to be more service oriented or there would be more service sector jobs. Well the various companies also outsourced the service sector jobs overseas also to place like India and the Phillipines amoung other places as well. What's left except to join the Armed Services so you can get an education etc.
These wars have gone on far too long and this country has thus lost or wasted an enormous amount of blood and treasure instead of using it to secure our own country. There are those who would sooner have a war with Iran rather than spend a dime rebuilding our own infrastructure that is and has broken down. There are those who would rather prolong the conflict in Afghanistan and build their infrastructure rather than spend the monies on the healthcare and financial need of and for the Armed Forces and their families. There are those who would rather start or maintain a conflict anywhere in the world rather than use the funds to provide healthcare for the peoples of this country.
It is just easier to blame the homeless for their homelessness, the poor for their poverty, the sick for their ill health/sickness/disease, the mentally ill for their mental illness , viewing it as being weak rather than what it is... an illness of the mind or even of the brain, it is easier to get all high and mighty and limit the size of soda a person can buy and imbibe, and penalize folks for smoking and for being obese or fat, talking about these things shortening peoples lives or making them sick blah blah blah, yet not provide proper healthcare or access to nourishing foodstuffs even while wanting to cut Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid benefits as well as the public safety nets.
There is even a push to increase the SS retirement age to 70 even although many to most companies do not provide pension schemes these days, while some do not even want to do their matching funds bit. There appears to be this attempt by polititians/leaders at pretending at caring for the health and care of the masses by pretending the masses are children who wish to have their lives regulated by them, whether it is regulating their food consumption through to their sex lives by mandating what the masses can do and cannot do, anywhere from a 32 oz of soda to the birthcontrol pill, condoms and abortions.
Frankly it may be illegal to attempt suicide, only if you do not succeed in killing yourself. Although these days of cost cutting it is more about what the cost will be to give the person mental healthcare help in the private sector as most if not all the public mental healthcare/ psychiatric facilities have been closed down and the land and properties been sold to developers no doubt. So like that guy in Colorado who was looking for help and got none so he killed all those folks in the Cinema, he may get his wish of Suicide by State. Think of the dispair and hopelessness that that mother must have felt to take her two small children with her into the garage and take her and their lives? Or that police officer who killed his wife and children and himself... so the suicide rate is increasing in the private sector too from the look of things. Imagine that young woman who was revived at the hospital then simply discharged without any acute mental health care at that time only with names of various mental health professionals for HER in her questionable or depressed and attempted suicide state of mind to contact... yeah I am sure she is going to get help from these people. LOL Who is going to pay for the treatment now that we are in the old private fee for service mode these days.... the mental health folks are not going to help her for free or for a lower rate of compensation either. What? think the State was going to pay for her mental health care, or would she even qualify for emergency Medicaid coverage- which would need the hospital to apply for it for her under the circumstances, that is if the hospital even have a psychiatric unit- and which of these private docs would take it anyway, plus she was just family so it is doubtful whether she was covered under her brothers military healthcare insurance plan. Come to think about it does the military healthcare insurance plan cover mental healthcare?
One could go on but why bother.... we all are probably paying lip service about caring for our military and their families and about each other and about our country's healthcare and housing/shelter, poverty, and the rest of it.... aren't we?
At the heart of it most folks do not care, while some cannot afford to care, providing it (whatever it is) does not happen to them or their family and which will only gets worse as long as we remain in conflict/war and defense mode. When are these polititians going to regulate that morbidly obese and bloated beast called defense spending. Perhaps if they paid as much attention to regulating that as much as they are attempting to regulate peoples lives they might be doing something positive that needs doing saving the US masses lives and treasure for a change imo.
Peace and all that......
The predicted decline in discipline, pride, morale, and esprit de corps resulting from repeal of DADT has led to an increase in military suicides. Who wants to serve in an army of perverts?
You are an idiot.
That is the absolute dumbest thing I've read on MSNBC. Ever.
I'm hoping you're just some ignorant troll and this wasn't a serious comment. You obviously have no clue about the military and least of all how it's been in the last decade and a half. Get a clue and make more informed comments.
Hansome, show us some proof of your assertion. Oh, wait - you can't. Hate much?
Hansome, I think you would do pretty well in an army of perverts, fitting right in like you were born to it.
A skunk(Canuck) smells his own hole first.
Jaques, I don't express any opinion on your comment but it seems to have ruffled a lot of feathers in organized buggery.
See how they shrilly condemn you all in unison. Why, it's almost as if those many screen names actually all were one person!
As a Vet, my ex-wife had to suffer my screaming at night. I hope to have room in my house, this summer, to let a family spend a week or two. I live in a community of vets and some of us know how bad it seems after combat. I also blame lack of vouchers for vets. A stable place to live, until things can be sorted out. A short term voucher and follow up is needed. While in New York, People only wanted to stick me in a hole. I moved to Mexico. My rent is affordable. I say this to all VETS. We are family and never forget it.
mikecy2k - Thank you for serving and for what you want to do for other families. I have been thinking about my charities this year and I wasn't going to give to wounded warriors (I volunteer to for them too) because I was thinking they get a lot of donated dollars. Is there a charity that helps place vets in homes specifically that you can share with me?
Sorry to say i have never heard of any charities that do that.Nice thought though.
Mikey, I also served 6 yrs however I never took a dime from the govt in charity. We as a country spend more than any other for veterans and it bothers me when veterans complain thats its not enough. My Dad also served in Korea, never took a dime as well but it sounds to me your living off the govt for life and complaining they dont give you enough, this really bothers me.
You're an extremely judgmental person, square. So what exactly did you do in your six years of service?
Disgusted, I don't know what's available where you live but might I suggest a Veterans Home in your area. There are many all around the country. From small private homes to large dorm type facilities.
I agree with you about the Wounded warriors Project. If I ever won the lottery they would be the first on my list of charities, but also the Soldiers home in Boston, which is a facility for homeless vets.
mike i agree. It is a shame that we spend money making illegals happy, giving our crooked politicians massive salaries (when they are all a bunch of idiots with no concern for the promises made), giving foreign aid by the billions (of our tax dollars) to counties that hate us, etc, etc. Above all our military, who put their lives on the line for our country, should be able to come home and be assured of being taken care of. It is a damn travesty that an illegal alien can get section8 housing, food stamps, schooling, and more when our vets struggle with life and aren't given the gratitude and respect they so rightly deserve...Thank you from the bottom of my heart for your service to all military.
The casualties of the Iraq war and the accompanying suicides are just a part of the legacy George Bush, Cheney and the neocons, who planned and sold the war, have left us.
The neocons sold the war as a "cakewalk", which would be quick and cheap. That is how they got politicians to vote to give Bush the authorization to declare war. They thought it would be another walk through lioke the first Gulf war.
The sales pitch for the Iraq war started in 1996, when Paul Wolfowitz and Douglas Feith presented a paper called "A New Beginning" - A Strategy For Securing The Realm to Arial Sharon. It called for the US to remove Saddam Hussein, by using US power. It was formally presented in a letter to Clinton by the PNAC right wing "think tank". They call it the PNAC Letter, which claimed Iraq had WMD. Perhaps that is where Clinton and our Congress got the erroneous idea of WMD in Iraq. Look it up.
Bush is happily working his ranch, while the wives and families of the soldiers he sent are aggonizing over their destroyed lives. Bush and Paul Wolfowitz could care less.
Mikey, bless you and your family. hope things go well for you, and thank you for what you do to help. We need more people like you out there.
Square, your views are not fashionable but I appreciate your candor in expressing another view from the more popular.
A lot of our Vietnam returnees were shown to have mental problems and problems with substance abuse--and this was under a much-criticized single tour of duty system! But the Vietnam Conflict's one, central fact was its unpopularity. The middle class opted out of that war, leaving it to be fought by young people who already had problems adjusting in society.
Though now we have an all-volunteer military and a military that is 15 percent female I still have to wonder who is serving.
Monica, please don't give up. God has told us he will not give us more than we can handle (and you have had more than your fair share, for sure!) but you are still here and for a reason. I will pray for you. I am so sorry for your loss and just can't imagine it but you ARE a strong person; you're still here (dealing) and that should be proof enough that you are stronger than most. I am a Navy wife, 30 years, it is hard especially the deployments and the worry. Now, my son is on a submarine and I get to worry again. The other is a pilot, more worry. They are doing good things though and that helps.
Hansome Jaques ... our sons, daughter, husbands, and father's serving allow you to make your stupid comment, "Who wants to serve in an army of perverts?"
That is a very nice thought but "God does not give us" these troubles. He gives us what we need to get through them. It is not a test we have to pass as if there is a contest between God and Satan for our loyalty as it was with Job. Everything these war fighters need to heal is already inside of them because "the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." The problem is, no one told them how to find it.
Communities have let them down just as much as the military has. I've been doing this work for 30 years, plus married to a Vietnam veteran with PTSD. It was almost impossible for me to stay and I knew what it was. How do they expect families with no understanding to do it?
Obviously, God didn't give her brother what he needed to get through the troubles, unless you think God wanted her brother to commit suicide?
Hansome Jaques you can go to h3ll.
Well said!
During my tours in the Middile East i have spoken to many troops(young and old)that wonder if the media is just as much an enemy as the Taliban.And we all know what happens to Taliban members.Just saying.
Has anyone ever noticed that the media is giving the enemy a heads up on our guys positions in their on the spot news coverage. They know the enemy has access to cell phones which are internet capable, but thye do not care. The news media has become an enemy to America.
The article states that the suicide rate in the military is lower than the rate of suicide in the general population. Since that is the case, why are they calling it an epidemic? Apparantly our soldiers are dealing with the stress of combat better than the average citizen deals with everyday life. Just another attempt to make our troops look bad.
That's a good point you bring up Milgram about suicides being lower in the military normally. The initial screening for enlistment and strain of boot/basic training helps to remove people with depression, bipolar, etc. that are more prone to suicidal actions thus lowing the military's suicide rates. Military suicides compared to the general population have always been lower but when you compare specific gender and age groups in the military to civilians then the difference isn't so severe. During military draw downs and post-war the suicide rates have always increased in the military and recent vet.
It is very sad when someone commits suicide and that individual and their family has my absolute sympathy, I am not one of those fools that accuse suicide as being the cowards way out. I can't remember which branch it is but I think it was the Air Force but 50% of the suicides in the AF have never been deployed to a combat situation, some have never even been deployed overseas, I think the others branches are 30-40%. So while it is probably true to accuse excessive deployments and PTSD for suicide rates it doesn't apply to a surprising number of these deaths.
I'd like to slap the physicians who let a suicidal woman leave the hospital with a list of psychiatrists and two highly addictive medications. That just beggars the mind. It's as if they gave her a permission slip. Ma'am, I'm so sorry for your loss and your pain; please remember that just as there are idiots, there are also others who truly care about you and your welfare. Don't give up, please.
Agreed, the medical system failed her big time. But did she have medical insurance when she was at the ER? That is our system sad to say, no medical insurance you get a swift kick out the door, only to return over and over again.
They truly hope you eventually die from lack of proper care, and stop bothering them in the ER all the time.
So sad our brave soldiers that this is happen, i am a vietnam vet, being in war is never easy, these folks needs good help. may God bless.
Now you are getting to the answer.
Jesus Christ, always.
"Soldiers come with families. And the military has a maddening way of both dismissing families and holding them accountable at the same time."
I am an Army wife and the quote about does a good job of summing it up. When it comes right down to it, the Army does not care about the families. You can't understand unless you've dealt with it, but that's how it is. I know where these wives are coming from, I've been there, over and over again. If things don't change it will just keep getting worse. But I don't think the Army care about that - it's not their precious "mission".
Maybe enough people will start to realize that people and government are not able to provide love, wisdom, hope, meaning, satisfaction, well being, a sense of belonging, protection, and provision.
This is the benefits package of Jesus Christ and His Bible. there is no other source. He is the "fountain of life, and life abundant."
My commander is more concerned about getting deployment coins than he is about Soldiers.
Not hard to figure out why this is going on.
Uh oh. If there are many like you our military is spiraling down the toilet. But this is just a picture of America in general.
When will you stop demanding people treat you the way you think they should and start to put your trust in Jesus Christ?
Herald9...Jesus is nice and all, but the issue truly is @!$%#ty leadership in the military. Leaders are more worried about the next rank and the bullet points on their reviews than they are soldiers and their families. The mission doesnt even matter if they think they can get rank someother way easier. It is the truth, you don't like it, then keep on living in a fantasy word. But, i guess this is what happens when a college degree in something like liberal arts, is more important in the military than actual job performance, leadership skills, and actual military experience.
Herald9
Jesus Christ stays inside the wire.
Our Government has unfortunately not the skill to understand that "endless" wars are not something that can be ignored. Fighting war (multiple)s for more than ten years in order to finance the military industry leaves and which are not supported by the people any longer leaves these soldiers in a state of despair. In addition, when they are coming back they have to deal with a military that is denying them the care they need if it. Unless we get some more intelligent military leaders that not enjoy only the perks (see the Generals in Florida) but have a vision to get us out.
Joachim, until evolution changes the nature of Man there will always be war, because war seems to be the nature of Man, and that's proven throughout the history of Man, it's a behavior trait. When Man as tribes of nomads gathered in City-States they began warring on one another. Hell, lol, they did it as nomads; Hunters/gatherers making war over territory. We do it today; The role of government, especially our government because of our Constitution, is to protect the interests of the citizens, promote the economic welfare of it's citizens. Lol, that doesn't mean the government should provide things, it means to maintain a atmosphere where people can provide things for themselves working within the system. Take Iraq, a lot of questions are asked about why we went into Iraq. Lol, my question about Iraq has always been: "Where were the oilfield workers that should have been embedded with our forces, to work captured oil fields?"
Watch Deer Hunter; we never learned our lessons from Vietnam. Pray for our soldiers, blame our politicians.
It's because there is no unity as far as the country is comcerened....if i was a soilder i would not fight for the United States....your goverment is corrupt and the citizens don't give acrap about nothing or nobody but themselves....i will love it when you become a third world country and your citizens living like dogs because you don't know how to embrace freedom.
You have no clue what the military is about and what's worse is that you miss the point of the entire article. Seriously, after that jaques guy up near the top, yours is the most ignorant comment I've read on MSNBC in at least six months.
Americans know how to embrace freedom, we've been doing it for a long time, and that's why it's doubtful that we'll become like a "Third world country" which citizens are living in poverty, like dogs. You didn't state where you live, so are you living in some despotic nation where the people only know being marched around by their masters?
General rule if someone ends up in the ER because they tried to commit suicide the doctors are REQUIRED to have them psycologically evaluated. The ER she went to sounds pretty worthless.
I'm sure she isn't doing what your mother is.
When you thirst for war and killing of brown people this is what you get. NO MORE WAR!!!!!
Are there any records of how many WWII soldiers committed suicide, other than the usual "He shot himself in the foot?" What it may come down to is a lack of purpose in the military, a lack of belief in what America is and should be. Lol, squalling about the greedy rich and "Throw the bums out" isn't going to solve the problem.
You will beat your weapons into plow-shares.
screw the free market
Yeah Colby, lol. A system where everyone is marched to a workplace doing what the leaders deem necessary for the "Good of the people" and being paid only what a committee says is right is a much better system? That's the only option other than the Free Market. Free market means exactly that, "Free." Free to participate and free to not participate.
free to die in competition with each other while no one wins except the ceos...sure
That's right, "Sure." Welcome to the world of man. "What was, was and what is, is. We have to deal with the 'What is.' " Well, we do have the option of getting out once and for all. Suicide. For some who are unable to deal with life it's a viable option. The more we want and compete for the more will be those who fail, so, we'll see more suicides and not just in the military.
This issue needs to be part of the mental health policy review that is being (or should be) triggered by the mass shootings of late. Clearly our country needs to start treating mental health with as much importance as it does physical health.
I've repeated the same mantra so many times that I've been wondering if anyone out there listens: We've been working with service dogs, recently with a group who provides dogs to vets with PTSD. The stories we have heard are horrifying: multiple rapes by superior officers of the same sex, inability of the vets to get out of bed prior to getting their dogs, and on and on ad infinitum. And the VA has suspended monetary support for the dogs. Because, they say, there is no "real" research. How many more men and women will die while the VA keeps relying on prescription drugs that have little effect and the government refuses to fund the research they are demanding?
The critieria for helping these wounded soldiers is all wrong. There are too many barracades and not enough therapists. Open the doors to those with experience and proven track record instead of hiring the young and dumb inexperienced! None of these suicides would happen if somebody running the show knew what they were doing!!!
I said "None of these suicides would happen if somebody running the show knew what they were doing!!!"
People have a right to die, "Suicide prevention" is vulgar and disgusting.
Then go kill yourself if you believe so strongly in it.
You're right Random. If we say that a person has a right to be born then a person also has a right to die at a time of his own choosing.
Ain't Got Time To Bleed,
Everyone Fall In, Dress Right Dress, Cover, Stand At Ease, Report!
Gung Ho, Limited War, Fog Of War, Casualties of War, Military Doctrine, Red Ball Express, Ambush, Who's on Point?, Air-Land Battle, LZ, Cover Fire, Small Unit Tactics, Rear Battle, Weapon Jams, MIA, KIA, War Profiteers, etc................Stop The Madness.
Social Welfare Services For Service Members but not for the growing outsourced Civilian Working Poor.
Like Jackie Chan said recently, "The United States Gov't, most corrupted in the world."
Lions For Lambs.com
Sound like you've been there, done that.
How in WWII did the soldiers, seamen and Marines who had signed up for the duration, endure in some cases 4 or more years away from home in combat or in far away places, cope? If their psyches had been as fragile as the product of our culture seems to be today. I would have thought suicides would have reached astonomical proportions after the war. Instead we had the baby boom. It illustrates how bankrupt our popular culture is today. In a way I think our instant networking and communication is detrimental, not supportive. In 1944 men only had their fellow soldiers to support them, they looked to one another. They were not bombarded by images and tweets illustrating what they were being left out of or missing, back home. They couldnt' see that the sacrifice was all on their end. Today, stuck in some camp in Afghanistan they can see by going of FB that their sacrifice means nothing to the average American who goes on about their life with no thought to what is happening where they are. If that would not cause someone to become dispondent, I don't know what would. It shows how much emphasis our kids today place on "stuff" and status. Missing out on that at least for some apparently is worth ending their lives over.
Mud, they also have the Instant communication with their families, which is important to those overseas. My husband is in Afghanistan, and we get to chat or email at least 2-3times a week. I Try to be upbeat when I talk to him. I don't speak of problems at home or whatever. Things he has no control over. I consider my purpose is to keep his moral up, and let him know that he is ALWAYS LOVED, and ALWAYS MISSED.
The men who fought in WWII off'd themselves at the same rate as they do today, as they did after Korea, after Vietnam. It is a very boorish and trite argument of people to consistently proclaim that the most recent generation is in someway inferior or weaker.
You're forgetting the idea that there really is little reason to be thankful for what our soldiers are doing today. Why should I be thankful for the job that was done in Iraq? How did that change my life? If we had not gone, would I have lost my freedoms? NO. My life wouldn't have changed one bit. When our armed forces are here at home, fighting to keep people from attacking this country, that's when I am thankful for what they do. But most of them blindly fight for what they're told to fight for, then have this unnecessary desire for thanks for what they've done. Maybe Afghani and Iraqi people are thankful, but why should I care? When we leave, the Taliban will make its resurgence. Iraq has already shown signs of returning to its old ways, aside from the lack of Saddam Hussein. Personally, I am thankful for those who fought in our world wars, and I feel sorry for those that served in all the rest. Those who actually fought to preserve our freedom deserve massive thanks, and those that didn't, deserve massive sympathy. Vietnam wasn't a war for freedom. Iraq wars weren't wars to preserve our freedom. The Afghanistan war wasn't a war to preserve our freedom. Our government and our military often make me ashamed to be a citizen of this country. Do you have any idea how many people around the world look at our wars and laugh at how stupid we are? The problem is, the sacrifice that these men and women are making is not worth it to the average american. When North Korea reaches a point where they are about to launch a nuclear bomb on us, that is the day when I will surely appreciate what our military does, because they are actually fighting to preserve our freedoms! If I had served in either of these later wars, I'd want to kill myself too.
We're talking here the anguish of servicemen at a total risk.
Comparing the soldiers of today to WWII vets is not relevant to this discussion. There was a clarity to WWII the enemy was visible and in a uniform. Still they had guys that cracked from the strain of death and destruction. WWII vets came back from combat and absorbed the pain by not talking about it or how it effected them so deeply.
My wife's uncle came back after combat in Europe and was on the way to fight in Japan. It was total war and civilians were doing their duty by absorbing the loss of loved ones and helping the war effort. He had won the Broze Stare in Europe and I never knew about it till he died. It was just the way it was for them.
Now we are engaged in wars that the enemy hides among the civilian populations and the soldier has to sort it out on his own. It becomes a kill or be killed situation to them and they respond to such a way as they see fit. When they guess wrong they see the result of an AK47 on a dead civilian. It is overwhelming to them. A tragic situation for them and their only way out seems to be suicide.
I would have a lot of difficulty being a soldier today in that difficult environment.
Interesting point. If we had not gone into Iraq would our lives have been any different? I think our lives would have been a lot different and more hard because if we had not gone the anti-American folks in the world would have begun interfering with our supply of oil, because they know that oil is the economic life-blood of America. So then, was it all about oil? We're told of course that it wasn't but it damn sure should have been. If it takes a war to secure the economical well-being of the American people then good. Hell, wars have been fought over less meaningful issues. The only thing that I say was wrong about Iraq was that a long line of tankers didn't start heading for America full of oil. People want light when they flip a switch, they want heat and air-conditioning, they want to drive when and where they want. They want that quality of life and government ought to take steps to provide it and if it means by war, well, lol, that's one of the reasons I enlisted back in 1961. Does that mean that Man is a selfish and inconsiderate brute? Probably, so, lol, welcome to the world of Man. It's better to be the biggest and baddest than the opposite, that being a nation of victims victimized and ruled by a system calling itself "The people working for the good of the people."
How does one feel after finding out their entire life of honor and service was a lie purveyed on them by the military JUST to join up and be sent to fight wars they don't understand and finally don't agree with ?
How does one feel after destroying families and causing pain and hurt to others un-necessarily ?
Most of these guys are poos slobs that wanted some money for joining up and most of them have no idea about the zionist infiltrators in the u.s. government causing them to pack up and go fight in foreign lands for ideals they were taught to despise like greed and profit.
Its no wonder that most of them see the misery they caused needlessly simply because their zionist led government told them to go kill iraqis. They go and see the wretched masses that they are supposed to scrutinize then "cleanse" of terrorists.
I'm not sure that I would have gone to iraq if deployed simply because I thought that war was a war for profit for halliburton and caci and all the other miserable and evil corporations that sponsored that war.
Finally and as a soldier, HOW the hell do you think I would feel KNOWING that the moron contractor next to me with hardly any training or discipline gets paid 5 times what I make for the same job?
ALL of this will give me the creeps aboput what I was doing deployed in Iraq. It would finally be clear to me that I was just a simple tool in the hands of neocon zionists doing everything for israel !!! NONE of these wars were in America's interests. NONE. We shopuld have simply gone after al qiada and bin laden with a police effort nOT a frikking WAR ....
SUICIDE. That is how a killer of innocents evens out the score. I wouldn't be surprised if most of these guys were nice people that simply couldn't live with the burden they shouldered .... Most of them were NOT mentally ill or couldn't handle it or anything else like that. They were mostly decent people that couldn't live with what they've done ....
Rest in peace