E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSTwo people have been rescued from a single-engine plane that crashed and sank into the Hudson River.
Police say the small plane with two people aboard crashed just before 5:30 p.m. ET Sunday off Yonkers, N.Y.
Authorities say the two survivors were wearing life vests when they were plucked from the waters about 20 to 30 minutes after the crash and taken to Jacobi Medical Center.
A Federal Aviation Administration spokeswoman described the plane as a Piper PA-32 single-engine aircraft. She says the pilot told local authorities that the flight departed from the Trenton-Robbinsville Airport in Robbinsville, N.J.
Lt. Toni Scherer of Empress Ambulance Service says the two — a man and a woman in their 30s — were treated for hypothermia and were listed in stable condition at Jacobi.
NBCNewYork.com
Leave a Comment:
Why did they have life vests on? Did they know that they were going to crash over water before they left? Just sayin'.
Cricketbaby,
Seriously?! When your plane is registered, there is protocol as to what you need to have on board such as, life-vests, survival gear etc... Just like a commercial vehicle on the road must had road flares etc...
They more than likely knew they were going down, steered the plane towards the river and ditched. That's when they had enough time to slap on the vests. Not to mention that the passenger probably had enough time to retrieve the vests & get her seatbelt back on before going down.
MAN! They must have been freezing their asses off!
I live about 4 miles from Robbinsville Airport. It's small and nothing much larger than a Cessna can use it...
You would think the story would have at least mentioned a possible reason for the crash.
Creek Dog.....
Seriously?! When your plane is registered, there is protocol as to what you need to have on board such as, life-vests, survival gear etc... Just like a commercial vehicle on the road must had road flares etc...
Having been a Commercial Pilot back when I could still pass a physical, I remember no such requirement. Things are always changing, but I've not heard anything about life jackets being a requirement for non-commercial aircraft not flying more than 50 miles over water.
I've got thousands of hours in smaller aircraft of all types and I can't EVER remember seeing one equiped with life jackets.
I'm thinking Cricketbaby's question is a fair one, why would they have life jackets on?
Just because regs don't call for it doesn't mean conscientous pilots should be questioned for being prepared (especially if a lot of their hours are spent over/around water). Are you actually insinuating that this was a planned event?
Maybe they were trying to pull a Sully...
Steve....Don't know who your question was for, but flying up the Huson River isn't like flying to the Bahamas or Puerto Rico. Unless this plane was doing things like that, the fact that it even had life jackets is far removed from being ordinary. A more likely accessory for a small single engine plane might be a parachute.....and I've never seen one of those on a plane that wasn't taking skydivers up.
If someone thought they needed to carry life jackets to fly up the Hudson River, I think the FAA might start their investigation by asking if the plane was overloaded because using your line of thought these people would appear to be able to make an Eagle Scout feel unprepared.
johnny - thanks for the reply (and really I was asking either you or the tc). I was simply considering that perhaps they fly upstate a lot to go fishing or something, so they have jackets on board out of habit.
I'm not saying the Hudson is an unavoidable body of water that would necessitate carrying life jackets, but I don't think the fact that they had preservers on board should elicit the suspicion it has in this thread. Too much conspiracy theory IMO.
The reason life jackets were on board was probably that the owner did a lot of flying over open water more than 50 miles from land. The pilot knew they were there and was having engine problems and not enough altitude to assure safe transition to the nearest airport, so they donned the jackets and when the engine quit, put it down in the water after 121.5 mayday.
Thanks twodogs.
johnny,
I'm surprised with all your training and background that you still asked the question as to why they were wearing life-jackets.
Also, yeah, the jackets must have weighed a ton to bring down the plane.
Correct. How long ago was that? The world is changing day by day compared to many yrs ago where tragedy after tragedy would happen to get the FAA's attention. All you need now is a few signatures around town to do that now.
Commercial pilots license is compatible to a captain on a large boat's license. You're responsible for passengers whereas, private planes are not. Private pilots have been getting away with all sorts of situations where now, there are certain protocol which is subject to inspection for their own safety and the safety of other around them.
Creekdog.... you're going a fairly good distance to out of the way in your explanation about why this particular plane just happened to have life jackets on it. It would have better just to say....I don't know, instead of whatever it is you're trying to do, IMHO.
The regulations don't require them, I've never seen it before, and I've spent a lot time around planes. My experience tells me that almost every other non-commercial plane in the US doesn't have them, I've NEVER heard about any petition being filed with the FAA demanding life jackets on privately owned non-commercial use aircraft.
I'd like you to point out to me that protocol you keep referring to.....you can just start with the life jackets and we'll work our way out from there.
I'm not saying that it is impossible for someone to want to carry life jackets in their plane while flying up the Hudson River, but it's so far out of the main that 9,999 out of 10,000 pilots would laugh at anyone for trying to petition the FAA to require it. If someone is THAT paranoid they should not be piloting a plane....even on a CAVU day! There may be a perfectly good explanation for the life jackets, I'm just interested in what it is, because it's just not something you see everyday. I'm sure the invetigators will be able to sort out what happened, maybe we'll find out....maybe not. After all, I never heard another peep about that Wall Street guy that crashed his nice high tech plane on I-287 last year, I think it was.
I've heard people say something about when you find yourself in a deep hole, the first thing you want to do is stop digging. Just saying.
"The regulations don't require them, I've never seen it before, and I've spent a lot time around planes."
If the airplane is used for hire (flight instruction) and flown over open water further than glide area to land, then it must have flotation equipment. See part 91. I know that at one time there was a rule about operation more than 50 miles over water that also required flotation devices and that was for any aircraft. I don't know if that still exists, but would be surprised if they have changed it. Anyone planning to be over open water this time of year would be foolish not to have at least life vests on board. If you hit the water in this weather you won't be moving around for very long.
twodogsloving.......
In order to save me a lot of work, which I'm not going to do, would you point out those regulations in Part 91 for me? I'm interested in them and since you must have already looked them up, maybe you can steer me in the right direction?
By the way...what is Part 91?
johnny,
I live about 4 miles from Robbinsville Airport. This is Central NJ. We're about 40 minutes from the Ocean. By plane, your looking at more like 15 to 20 minutes. These airplane's fly up and down the coastline. Why would they not have a PFD?! They constantly fly North and South. Especially to the Carolina's.
And who said they were flying "up" the river? his River is huge. What makes you think that they weren't having engine trouble and seen the river? Plus, this area is right near Newark International Airport. Small planes want to stay away from this area even though they're allowed through flightpath clearance.
Oh and lastly, I have no idea what I am talking about when it comes to small personal aircraft's and regulation. There, feel better now?!
Good, that said, all your sentences that say I don't know what I'm talking about is hard to justify from a guy who has been out of the flight thing for years. Not to mention you flew commercial flights. Even if you flew Cessna's, times and regulation change constantly and almost year to year as the world turns...
Have a nice day.
Creek.....I understand what you're saying, but I started getting my hackles up when people start citing regulations that don't exist and alluding that I'm some kind of 'conspiracy theorist' when I ask why these people might have life jackets aboard, even though it is a very uncommon practice in my experience.
The Hudson isn't huge by any stretch of the imagination. As far as for them flying 'up' the river, I only assumed that because they departed Trenton, which would be south of the river and since the Hudson flows south and they were probably headed north....that makes it 'up' the river to me. I doubt that's very little outside of Haverstraw Bay that's more than a mile wide.
I'm not looking for an argument, just a discussion. I was curious as to why they just happened to have life jackets aboard a craft where you wouldn't ordinarily find them. And I did find Crickets's question fair.
When people get all 'holier than thou' with me and start with the liberal this, conspiracy that, NRA non-sense, sometimes I let it go, sometimes I don't and I tend to get my 'splainin' hat on and start splainin'. in answer to your question about why wouldn't they have life jackets? I can answer in one word....space. You can only carry just so much and believe it or not, life jackets take a lot of it in terms of useful space in a small single engine aircraft. Most of them fell into the class of having just enough room for 'your ass and a gallon of gas'.
All of this isn't directed at you. I read your comments and find you to be pretty much like the rest of around here.
I grew up in Trenton. That is a very small airport - I've only seen small craft there. Creek Dog - don't even try arguing with them - most folks think NJ is nothing but a large city populated by gangbangers and guidos. Stereotypes are such a wonderful thing, NOT.
Audrey,
Thanks but it's all good. You're correct though, the Jersey Shore Guito's pretty much painted NJ that way.
Thanks again! ;-)
Johnny,
I must say we had an interesting conversation. I have PFD's (Personal Floatation Device) and they are the type where you pull a string to instantly inflate it plusthere is a manual tube to blow it up by mouth if that fails. They weigh less than a pound and can almost fit in your back pocket. Kinda like a large zip-loc baggie.
I know that if I had a pilots license and a small Cessna, I'd carry my PFD's with me because if I ever had to go down and ditch, I would try for a lake or pond anything water.
When in the air in NJ, everywhere you look are streams, Creeks (hey, that's me) rivers, ponds and lakes.
Take care.
Audrey....and you talk about people sterotyping!!
You know nothing about me and what I know about NJ. I've worked on HUNDREDS of miles of roads in NJ From Sussex County to Ocean County, Warren County to Bergen County, Somerset and Middlesex. I know quite a few people from Wantage to Tom's River and Phillipsburg to Bayone. I've probably traveled on a lot of the same roads you've traveled on.
johnnyt, here's what I was referring to, but the key is "for hire". If the airplane had been used for over water flight instruction, then it would have been equipped with flotation devices. If it was a pleasure flight, then no, they wouldn't have been required but would most likely still be in the aircraft. I'm sure the occupants would still have found the life vests very useful in this particular incident.
91.205 states that:
I think you are correct in saying that no regulation exists for a private airplane to have them unless it meets the "for hire" as above. There are more stringent regs for larger aircraft, I think over 12,500lbs, but again - I think you were correct in your statement.
That water is Coooooold! Their Lucky!
The plane was register to the NRA and the two people...Blomy and Comu?
Very lucky. Good rule, don't fly single engine aircraft at night.
A better rule.....never get more than one step above the gound and don't ever walk faster than shuffling your feet can carry you. Your odds of being killed by impact will be greatly reduced!
johmmyt is correct, no regulations for life jackets. I am guessing it was cold and they were wearing goose down type vest for the flight and the media reported them as life preservers. The media did get airplane right, it had two wings and a propeller. The media is not much on accuracy. 50% right is a pretty good day for them.
Sorry, I meant Johnnyt. typo
I don't find it odd at all that they had PFDs ( life vests ) aboard. If I still flew, as I used to, over water much at all, i.e Atlantic to the Bahamas or Bermuda I'd have them as a matter of course. And even if not' I'd consider it a good idea especially in winter. Obviously they were saved by having them aboard and getting them on in time.
Lol, yes the lifejackets prove this was a conspiracy. It must be a liberal plot to bring in more regulations to the airline industry just like the liberal operatives who killed all those kids at Sandy Hook so they could confiscate everyone's guns!
Leroy.....I know......you never can be too careful, especially after hearing about Capt. Sully's very astute flying ability and the availability of life jackets, right? But, I'm a little off course here, this isn't the airline industry. It's a couple of people in a Cherokee 6 winding up being pulled out of very cold water in January, and a plane that's probably scrap metal now.
I'm interested in what the odds of winding up in the Hudson River in a plane that's carrying life jackets are? Got any ideas? I'm asking this because I'm wondering if I took excessive risk for all those years by not refusing to fly without life jackets being available. However, I must say, it certainly worked out for these two people.
You allude that I'm some kind of a conspiracy theorist because I'm curious as to the circumstances that allowed this particular plane to have life jackets available when virtually every other plane in its category wouldn't ordinarily have them. Oh Well....one should never be curious, I guess, to keep some people happy.
See my previous comment. It's likely they flew other places at different times of the year and, while it might not be "standard" equipment on every small plane, it's not unusual on planes that fly over, even along the coast to have life vests aboard.
Whiskey.....My hackles are up just slightly about the posting on this thread.
As former pilot, like myself, I'm curious as to what your definition of 'not unusual' is. I've already stated that I have a Commercial Ticket and while not in the 15,000 hour class, I have more seat time, both left and right, than most pilots will ever accumulate, and I've taught a sizeable number of people to fly. I've been out of planes for quite a few years now and understand that the world isn't a static place, but....I've NEVER flown in a single engine plane that carried life jackets as standard item, unless we going to The Bahamas, or something like that. While there's a big difference between a Cherokee 6 and 152, any GA airplane isn't noted for having one cubic inch more space than the builders thinks they can get away with. Having a batch of life jackets in the cabin of a Cherokee six takes A LOT of that space. Maybe these people didn't carry anything other than life jackets...I don't know. You say it not unusual for planes to carry life jackets, nowadays that may be true as I don't know if things have changed that much.....however....I doubt it because space will be a premium and they haven't stretched a Cherokee 6 cabin that I'm aware of. What I'm interested in is what you would say that 'not usual' percentage of planes that carry life jackets as standard equipment would be?
Like I said...my feathers are a little ruffled about this because people that I believe wouldn't know a pitot tube from a gear horn are trying to tell me about what is standard equipment and required on GA aircraft. They throw around Part #'s like they actually know something about them.
Didn't say it was standard. All I was saying was that if they were flying to the Bahamas etc. or even along the coast, they may have thought it prudent to carry PFDs and still had them aboard. Who knows, maybe they were even the inflatable type which I find take very little room and are comfortable enough that I sometimes forget I'm wearing one. My point is, that there's no reason to think it extraordinary for a small plane to have such things aboard. BTW it was a Piper, according to the article. Also considering people's obsession with safety these days it wouldn't surprise me if they do routinely carry more gear than we did in my day as well.
Johnnyt - As I mostly flew Grumman trainers and quite a while ago as a private pilot, I missed your Cherokee reference. Of course it's a Piper. I've even flown right seat in one but again many years ago.
Whiskey....For some reason my relies keep going in as comments. Sorry about that.
I was mostly trying to quell the conspiracy comments. people sure like to go there.
This whole thing got started because the first post commented about the occupants having life vests on. Then from there I get a little carried away about parachutes and what not. I thought Cricketbaby's question was a fair question. Anyway.....
AT-6 or the Yankee?
AA1A I believe. 1976 - 80s. Started in a Cessna 152 and quickly found the Grumman to much more fun. Eventually decided to sail, not fly, for a career. Thought I'd live longer but you can't prove a negative.
We always referred to it as a TR-2 which is actually an AA-1B according to what I just looked up. As I said, it was many moons ago. I did do a little right seat in an Cherokee in Arizona and a few time in a Baron later on in MI. All fun stuff. Really wanted to be a bush pilot in float planes when I started out but settled for the boat option in the end. Still at it. Happy trails...
I always loved flying. My Dad was a WWII pilot and decided to buy a plane when I was 17....probably to keep me away from fast cars. He made me promise that I'd never go 100 mph in a car if he bought the plane. I was kind of a lucky dog, had a few problems but nothing that didn't ever work out. Had a batch of health problems and couldn't pass the physical. Every once in awhile I think about dusting off the books and maybe helping some the youngsters (and not so youngsters) by teaching ground school. A lot of people get the flying part down ok but the written tests knock them right out!
You've made me think back to a time in the early 70's when a friend of mine had a Yankee...105 HP, if my memory is correct. He wanted to change the oil and the only place he could find a case of oil on Sunday was a small grass field airport in Liberty, NY. He went to get it and they wouldn't sell it to him. It was near 100 degrees that day and the field was very short with trees at the end. They told no deal, he couldn't have it. He mad as hell. When he got back, he told the story and then he said he was very glad they wouldn't sell the case of oil to him......he hit the top of the trees as he took off!! Not a lot of damage....but you made me think of that when you mentioned the Yankee. I had some time in it with him doing some hood time and navigation training. They were a crisp plane as far as the controls went....pretty snappy.
My dad was a navigator on a B24. Would have been a pilot except he was colorblind. Got shot down in Romania and as far as I know never flew again in anything.
You'll like this. The first time I landed the Tr-2, I pushed the throttle all the way in like I had always done on the Cessna. My instructor almost swallowed his tongue! We were on final and not far from the ground. Thankfully that little plane had a lot of get up and go and we managed to keep her in the air for a touch and go. Fun stuff, looking back on it!