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Hadiya Pendleton, 15, a student at King College Prep, was killed Tuesday at a Chicago park.
A 15-year-old girl who performed at President Obama's inauguration last week was shot dead Tuesday while hanging out with friends after school in bullet-scarred Chicago.
Hadiya Pendleton -- described by family as a “walking angel” -- was standing under a canopy in Vivian Gordon Harsh Park when a gunman ran down an alley, opened fire and fled in a white car, police said.
Pendleton was shot in the back but managed to run about a block before she collapsed, officer Laura Kubiak said. She died at the hospital.
A 16-year-old boy was wounded in the 2:20 p.m. incident. Police said Pendleton, who had no criminal record, was probably not the intended target.
“Never in a million years did I think I would get a call that my own baby had been gunned down,” Pendleton’s mother, Cleo Cowley, said through tears from her Chicago home.
She said she was at work Tuesday afternoon when she got an unexpected call from one of her daughter’s friends.
“She was screaming on the phone that Hadiya’s been shot, she’s been shot, and I just didn’t understand,” said Cowley.
Courtesy the Pendleton family
Photos of Hadiya Pendleton from her trip to Washington.
She and other relatives described the teen as a honor student, an insatiable reader who still found time to play volleyball and a twirl a baton in the school marching band.
“As usual, the bad guy aims, but he never hits the other bad guy . . . He hits the one that hurts the most to lose,” the victim’s godfather, Damon Stewart, 36, who is a police officer, told the Chicago Sun-Times.
“I changed her diapers, I played with her growing up. My heart is broken.”
A sophomore at selective King College Prep High School, Pendleton had traveled to Washington to perform with the band at inaugural events.
“It was the highlight of her young 15-year-old life,” Sen. Richard Durbin, D-Ill., said Wednesday at a Senate hearing on gun violence.
“Just a matter of days after the happiest day of her life, she’s gone.”
White House spokesman Jay Carney called the shooting a “terrible tragedy” and said the Obamas were praying for Pendleton’s family.
Cousin Shatira Wilks said the inauguration trip was the talk of a family gathering around New Year’s, but the young majorette was even more excited about something else: plans to travel to Europe this spring with the band.
“She was an honor student all her life,” Wilks said. “Honestly, she was a walking angel. She never once gave her mom any problems ever.”
Wilks said the teen doted on her 10-year-old brother, Junior, who is devastated.
“At Christmas this year, she was designated the elf and she handed out all the gifts,” she recalled.
“She loved rock music. She was always listening and playing to music,” Wilks said,. “What you would usually catching her doing is texting on her phone, like all the teenagers.”
Pendleton last tweeted just before 1 a.m. on Tuesday. “I’m tired,” she wrote.
Many of her classmates changed their Twitter handles to honor her and decried the violence that had claimed an innocent life.
“You are more than loved and missed,” one wrote. “Your laugh smile and silly happy personality has made my day more times than I can remember. Nobody deserves this, especially not you.”
Friends of the young majorette described her as a bubbly, well-liked student.
“She was always smiling and laughing,” said Tyler Genovesi, 14. “She was just a really nice person. … There’s a lot of people crying in school today. It’s very sad. The band is playing for her right now.”
Pendleton's murder was one of three shooting deaths in the city on Tuesday. More than 40 people have been shot dead in Chicago since the beginning of the year. There were 506 homicides in the city last year, a 16 percent increase even as other large cities, like New York, saw murders drop.
“We are awash in guns,” Durbin said, noting that six times as many guns as confiscated in Chicago as in New York each year. We have guns everywhere and some believe the solution to this is more guns. I disagree.”
Cowley broke down sobbing when she was told that her daughter’s death had been mentioned in the Senate.
“Something does need to change,” she said. “Where are the guns coming from? I don’t own a gun. My daughter was not violent. I never would have thought she would die like this.”
Related:
Tale of two cities: Homicides leap in Chicago, plummet in New York
Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., talks about the surge in gun violence in Chicago, highlighting the tragic story of Hadiya Pendleton, a city honor student who was shot and killed after performing at President Obama's inauguration.
Leave a Comment:
I'll bet the shooter was not an NRA member .
...as if it makes one bit of difference.
Needle In A Hay Stack---Don't be too sure. They're not all responsible--some are like LaPierre--NUTS.
If only all of those kids were armed, right NRA?
What the hell is in the water in Chicago? !
That's impossible...Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country so that can't happen.
Hold the phone. I thought Chicago had some of the strictest gun laws in the Nation. So criminals don't follow the laws? I thought all Amercians were required to follow the laws? Must have been some foreigner, or something...
Anyone else find this grossly coincidental?
Oh look - another shooting in a liberal "go after all guns and take them all away" state. Now, let's all put on our suprised faces; shall we, folks??? :D
A lot of black people in a poverty area is what is wrong. They glamorize the thug life.
What?? The gun laws in Chicago are not working?? Is it because gang members don't give a flying F about any gun laws? Go figure, this is the same BS you will get with more gun restrictions........
Shot with an "Assault Rifle" I'm sure in the tightest gun controlled area in the nation.
A criminal safe haven.
They should look into getting a qualified Community Organizer.
Gangbangers will surrender their illegal weapons when illegal immigrants self-deport.
They should wall off the city of Chicago, evacuate the women and children, set up cameras all over the place, and let the hood rats kill each other off, ala "The Running Man".
Not only would it make great entertainment, but it would be doing everyone a great service.
Unfortunately, the Reagan/Bush Supreme Court threw out the "strictest gun laws in the Nation" making them impossible to be enforced.
On top of that, there is Indiana, Wisconsin and Southern Illinois, where if you are breathing you can get a gun, no questions asked, just go to a gun show and proclaim you are Republican.
Nothing surprising, just another day in the great USA.
It doesn't but like most NRA members a 15 girl's death is an opportunity to troll.
Actaully, Illinois remains the only state in the nation with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public.
So this type of thing simply couldn't have happened, because there simply ARE no guns in public in Illinois - that should put everyone there at ease.
@Chris
A) She attended a prep school
B) The shooting happened in an upscale neighborhood
C) The article says nothing about her or her shooter being black
D) Most black people do not glamorize the "thug life"
E) Most people who live in poverty do not glamorize the "thug life" they just unfortunately live amongst it
F) You sound like an ignorant racist I hope you are not
Really sad.... Just because of some low-lifes.
Criminals don't follow the law. But the law should be able to follow the guns. Gun manufacturers don't sell to criminals. Their guns are first sold legally and then make their way to criminals through a black market. All sales start out legally. Better controls on sales and following the gun, as opposed to the owner, would lessen though not eliminate the number that go "missing".
Nice, Illinois has a law that NO honest private citizens can carry a gun. That is a gift to those that are not honest. Just like putting a wolf in with the sheep and expecting them to have a nice lunch of grass.
Guns are already banned in Chicago, and they still had guns. Stop making uninformed comments about the need to ban guns in a place they are already banned.
If anything Chicago is a prime example of how ineffective a gun ban would be since people would still find a way to obtain them illegally. Strictest gun laws in the country and the most homicides caused by guns.
This is also gang violence which is pretty common in many major cities. Banning guns, like drugs, as we can see in this example, is not going to stop gangs from getting them.
Perhaps improving education in low income communities where people are full of despair would go a lot further of addressing the issue of violence in the US than a gun ban. When people have no hope of getting out of poverty, they do crazy stuff. You write them off and forget about them because all is well in your neighborhood, then you should expect this kind of stuff to happen.
Shawn: you gotta keep up, the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals is attempting to force the Illinois Legislature to put in place a conceal carry law.
Regardless, the ability of anyone to get a gun, at any time, is the source of the problem.
If there are no guns being sold, the problem goes away.
Unlike prohibition of alcohol, most law enforcement officers would have no problem taking and destroying weapons which they may very well have to face at some point in the future.
Another reason to avoid THE LAND OF RAUM.
As an Illinois State Senator, U.S. Senator from Illinois and as POTUS....How many times has P.0bama held big Campaign style rallies in his "Hometown" of Chicago, to speak to the issues in the Crime Ridden minority neighborhoods....Gangs, Drugs, 75% unwed mother rate..baby daddy's that jump from bed to bed and do nothing to support them.
He could come up with some catchy slogan, like "Rally for Respect---Respect Yourselves", with community religious leaders and the many decent folks that are terrified to leave their homes......
But no, he turns a blind eye and even votes as a State Senator against a bill that would have required medical care for babies that survive an abortion...He's done nothing to improve the lot in life of people living in these neighborhoods except to throw more Welfare money at them....
P.S....Hangin' in a park with gang members is hazardous to your health...
Has anyone truly thought about the logic of the argument "Criminals don't follow guns law, so we don't need gun laws"?
At that rate, criminals don't follow laws about murder, rape, drugs, etc. Does that mean we don't need laws about murder, rape, drugs, etc.? Just taking this prize bit of logic to it's obvious conclusion.
Who cares what they're ATTEMPTING TO DO...the fact is, today, it is illegal to carry a gun on your person - period!
The problem is personal accountability and responsibility...it goes WAY beyond simply "ability to get a gun". When a person cares little about human life, when a person cares little about respecting a person's property, and when a person cares little about the laws of the land, it doesn't matter who can get what. We have people getting murdered over a pair of shoes, over a cigarette, over a friggen' sports team - we have a problem that extends WAY beyond, "anyone can get a gun".
That special gun tax Chicago passed some time ago needs to be increased. Problem solved.
If only *good citizens* in Chicago were allowed to legally carry around guns.....two or three good citizens with guns watching this event go down, could have pulled out their legal guns and accidently killed three to seven more people while trying to shoot the *bad guy*.
You don't save a drowning man by giving him more water.
Liberal KoolAid.
A city out of control with corruption and gangs. Not guns out of control. Chicago is just one city in this Nation and is not typical of what's happening in America.
What Chicago needs is some discipline in the criminal justice system.
Siobhan27
We are not saying we shouldn't have gun laws. We HAVE laws such as we are not allowed to murder. I believe that includes murdering someone with a gun. THESE laws are the ones that need to be enforced and the punishment just. Banning a type of gun or ALL guns will solve nothing except stop the gun-control crowd from whining. I for one don't agree with gun bans. They don't work.
Oh and for the record, an AR-15 is not an assualt rifle. It LOOKS like a military-style weapon but its only semi-automatic, not full auto like the military and police have. This means that for EVERY shot, I have to squeeze the trigger. I could hold it down all day and it will do absolutly nothing except shoot ONE round. I could take a hunting rifle with the same caliber as the AR-15 and do just as much damage and shoot just as fast. Nobody cares though because somebody didn't list it as an "assualt rifle."
Shawn, Who is giving these criminal access to the guns? I can tell you it is not non gun owners? Don't tell me that every gun owner is a law-abiding citizen cause we all know that it's a bunch of crap. Until we make every gun owner responsible and ACCOUNTABLE for their actions innocent people will continue to die. IMO, I don't understand why law abiding gun owners don't band together and stop letting the criminals get the guns.
I'm tired of hearing how "Chicago has the strictest gun laws in the nation". That's is a stupid caveman mentality argument. 1) The laws in one state don't matter if the laws a state or two over are loose and lax. 2) Most of the illegally owned guns (9 out of 10) originated as legal purchases. Gun nuts can keep on with their silly argument to have unrestricted and unregulated access to any type of weapon they want, but don't dare try to use the excuse about the weapons used in all of these shootings around the country everyday. You're the one's supplying almost all of the weapons used in these shootings.
Dirp - Guns are not the problem in Chicago. LAW ABIDING citizens can not carry them LEGALLY. Yet this girl was shot. Gun bans do not work and Chicago is the poster city for that fact. When it comes to "Universal background checks" I support it with one caveat...every citizen in the USA, over 16 must go through an extensive background check every 5 years, including their medical histories. That way we can identify people who are likely to use cars, bats, golf clubs, gasoline, or implements of mayhem so that we can restrict their ability to purchase those items for possible use on law abiding citizens.
in 2010,
the Supreme Court lessened the controls
in Chicago giving the weight of gun freedoms to the gun owners.
LESSENED THE CONTROLS IN CHICAGO
MORE: Justices lean to extending gun owners' rights
GUN-CONTROL LAWS: A closer look at Chicago
FULL COVERAGE: Latest from Supreme Court
Chicago: 2010 Supreme Court ruling tilts law against limits on guns - USATODAY.com
SOURCE:
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/2010-06-28-gun-rights-supreme-court-ruling_N.htm
AS PREDICTED in 2010
The ruling generated concern from city officials worried it would undercut gun laws and lead to more violence.
Police will tell you that UNCHECKED STRAW SALES are the leading cause of gun violence.
Protesting a universal gun control is counter intuitive if the NRA wants wants respectability.
Maybe they can start taxing AIDS, Cancer, and flu patients, too. Taxes cure everything in the eyes of a liberal, don't they?
In my opinion it looks like Chicago law enforcement officers are not doing their jobs. You can have all the gun laws you want, but if they are not enforced they will not work...
Guns are illegal in Chicago. OH!!! I Know!!! Let's ban murder!!! Since banning the guns didn't work.
@siobhan. By your logic then we should outlaw cars. You cant use a car to transport drugs or lock someone in the trunk. You cant use it to knock down mail boxes or to deliberately crush kittens either. But there aren't specific laws that outlaw these things because they are already illegal under other laws. Drug laws, forfeiture laws, animal cruelty, property damage etc. You dont need extra laws to know that using a gun to kill someone is illegal.
Tragic loss of life. Right wing trolls have no heart. What good do gun laws in Chicago do when you can drive to Wisconsin or Indiana and get whatever you need?
Lack of enforcement of gun laws isn't the problem. Easy avenues to circumvent the laws, like neighboring states providing easy access, are the problem. You can't do anything about your house continuously flooding by just pump the water out. You have to stop the flow of guns into the state before gun laws will have an appreciable effect.
Do you people think through your comments at all before you just go rambling off the same tired arguments?
I do not believe that this young lady was hanging out with gangs. Gangs being the key word here. Get rid of the gangs and you get rid of most of the Chicago murder problem. You would think that there are a lot of bright people or lawmakers that could fix this problem. One suggestion: Fix the criminal justice system !!!!
Pass laws that put gang bangers away for life. Get caught using a gun to commit a crime-40 years-no parole. I was on a jury that convicted a repeat crack dealer, armed carjacker and he got 7 years. Been in prison numerous times and was only 26 years old. He will probably only serve 3 -4 years and out he comes to do the same again. SOFT ON CRIME !!!!
A 15 year old dead and you all immediately start talking about your right to shoot your pop cans. What a bunch of non humans.
Ok now, this is totally getting out of hand. It's still not the gun but the person who steers it and uses the pedal.
I read the story about the mother who lost her 4th and last child the other day all from gun shots and she said:
What did I do wrong?!"
I was thinking, "You didn't move out of Chicago when your first was shot dead!"
Oh man, poor innocent girl that was an inspiration and a future is simply another statistic.
RIP Hadiya.....
dirp
If there are no guns being sold, the problem goes away.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
what about the 320 million guns out there in the US and the probably a Trillion worldwide?
and humans have been making guns and various other weapons from scratch for about 3 million years
the problem is never, ever, ever going away
you are full up retarded if you think a ban of any type will make a dent in violence... all it will do is disarm the people who give a crap about the law.
this whole thing is our freakin Politicians pulling more smoke and mirrors so they distract us from the fact they aren't doing their jobs.... and at the same time continuing to erode our personal rights...
Chicago isn't even in the top ten cities for murders or gun crimes it only gets regular stories on here because it's Obamas home city. Have to give the right something to blame Obama for. This way they can blame him for violence in chicago.
Hey Richard, I see you haven't changed your ways. Still spewing out BS putting people down.
Goes along with that confused and that shameful look on your face.
Now, lets see what you got......
For a city with some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, Chicago has some of the worst gun violence in the nation. This is because they have a major gang problem in Chicago and gangs, as well as other criminals, do not follow gun laws. The idea that more gun laws, assault weapons bans, etc. are going to do anything to reduce gun violence is pure fiction. If you want to do something about gun violence try enforcing the laws we already have and making the punishments for violating them more meaningful. If you get caught with an illegal gun it should be an automatic 5 years in prison. If you are caught with a gun during the commission of a crime it should be and automatic 25 years in prison. After all, the only reason to carry a gun during the commission of a crime is if you intend to use it, so this should be considered an attempted murder, whether you fire the gun or not. Maybe if criminals knew they were facing these stiff penalties they would think twice before carrying a gun. As for the so-called assault weapons ban, it is a joke. None of the weapons they are talking about banning are truly assault weapons. They are all nothing but semi-automatic rifles made to look like assault weapons. True assault weapons are fully automatic. An AR-15, which is one of the weapons frequently pointed to by the ban assault weapons crowd, is a semi-automatic and will only fore one shot each time you pull the trigger. Just because it looks like a military M-16 does not mean it is one. I can fire just as many shots just as quickly with almost any semi-automatic weapon as you can with an AR-15.
If you really want to do something to help reduce gun violence, petition for a change to the HIPAA laws so that the government can build a nationwide database of those who have been treated for mental health problems. Current federal privacy laws prevent this from happening. This makes it impossible to check to see if someone has a history of mental health problems before they are sold a weapon. Since most mass shootings are carried out by people who are mentally ill, this would do far more to stop gun violence than any assault weapons ban. Unfortunately, the liberals in DC are more concerned with personal privacy of the mentally ill then they are with keeping them from getting their hands on weapons and killing a bunch of people. Better mental health programs and better ways of identifying those people with mental health issues, not more gun laws, is what we really need if we want to reduce the number of mass shootings in this country.
I'm not arguing against personal responsibility and accountability...in fact, those are the two words you'll see me post most about (and regarding most of the issues that we as a nation face today).
The fact is though that it is illegal to carry a gun on the streets currently in Illinois and as such, the person doing so was not abiding by the law of the land. If we can't get people to abide by the laws we CURRENTLY have, how on earth do we expect those same people to abide by a new crop of laws we make up?
I don't think anyone is saying that, but what they're saying is that if you aren't going to follow the law as it stands today, do you really think any determined criminal is going to give a rat's ass if we spend the time, energy, and tax payer $$$ to put in a law on top of the other (already existing) law that says, "this time it's REALLY really illegal."
You can have 500 laws that all say killing someone is illegal - adding another 500 atop it isn't going to deter the person from doing it - you have to go to the real root of the problem, but in our "solve it quick" nation, we don't want to face the fact that it may time time to research the underlying problems...we want resolve and we want it NOW.
(again, hence the reason you're now taking off your flip flops before boarding an airplane)
So it was stupid caveman mentality when they put this into law. If they knew that surrounding states were feeding guns in to Chicago, then why did they go through all the trouble? Did they do it just to pass a "feel good" law? Surely, they must have thought that having such strict gun laws would make a difference, right?
Bingo! Rahm the Don, is more interested in politics than fixing the problem. If the officers are not enforcing the laws, that has to come from the Boss.
It is a tragedy with every innocent life that is lost, but it's not about anybody's right to "shoot pop cans". It's about law-abiding citizens being able to protect ourselves from criminals and a tyranical government that thinks nothing of violating the Constitution based on what will get them votes.
Another set up shooting by the Left. Believe it................or not! I most certainly do.
Chicago is the greatest city in this country. Wait... Chicago north of Roosevelt and west of Ashland is the greatest city in the country. Wait... Chicago north of Jackson and west of Clark is the greatest city in the country. There we go.
Chicago has strict gun laws but neighboring states don't. So like the criminals in NYC they drive over to someplace like Virginia and pick up all the guns they want like picking up candy.
The real problem in most urban areas... is the lack of fathers. Let's face it. "the war on poverty" has only worsened the issue for the black community. How many single mothers with mutliple children, with multiple fathers? Getting a check to have babies isn't too condusive to promoting self reliance. These kids grow up in a broken home with no one to instill any positive values. Most of them can't even speak proper english. They look to whoever has a few bucks as a role model. Most of the guys with a few bucks are gang bangers selling drugs. Gun deaths are only a symptom of the problem.
Did they do it just to pass a "feel good" law?
No, but it makes the right feel good when they can defend easy access and not think about where all of those guns are going to spill over into.
I love all of the Conservatives, bashing liberals on this issue. It is the
Conservative party that is voting to take money away from public schools,
Mental health facilities, workers rights, and place the biggest burden of tax
dollars on the working poor. If you don't think this leads to making more crimes being
committed think again. You push people down long and hard enough they eventually
crack or fight back. That being said I own guns and don't believe putting
restrictions on or removing them completely from the general population will
have any effect on the issues. Someone wrote it right if you don't respect yourself,
others, or even life itself, laws have no effect.
clflan2-1 says
WHAT??? This administration manipulate in order to further an agenda????? You'd have to be without morals and ethics to do something like that!! Oh....wait.......
I have no idea whether or not there are manipulated circumstances or not involving the gun control agenda - However, this administration DOES have a record of questionable ethics, misdirection and outright lies in order to push an agenda or cause.
dirp Comment collapsed by the community
Unfortunately, the Reagan/Bush Supreme Court threw out the "strictest gun laws in the Nation" making them impossible to be enforced.
On top of that, there is Indiana, Wisconsin and Southern Illinois, where if you are breathing you can get a gun, no questions asked, just go to a gun show and proclaim you are Republican.
Nothing surprising, just another day in the great USA.
I think you misspelled your dirp -- it really is drip isn't it.
gmainco - Bingo. Research isn't dirps strong suit. He just doesn't want to pass on an opportunity to bash conservatives, whether he's right or wrong.
Needle In A Hay Stack banned, re-reg of bigbenalaska and others.
ok, a young prep school student is shot dead in a upscale park in Chicago that has left residents in the community shocked, surprised and upset that it has happened in the area they live in that is not known for violence.... also, she just happened to have performed at the inauguration. also, 2 of the top activists for us to keep our guns which is our right have also been shot dead recently... just look it up.
also a strict gun debate that will do no good in reducing crime is raging thru The USA right now. The UN wants The USA to abide by The UN Laws. Yes, the comment that said this looks like a very convienent coincedence hit the nail on the head. This does look like a coincedence.
also, I know many on NBCs Vine like Obama alot, but I have to answer a comment above about the question of who is giving the criminals guns. ask Holder about that. Somehow our govt gave 1000's of weapons... from pistols to REAL ASSAULT weapons... not the AR-15 which is just made to look like one to market them. if you think those guns only ended up in Mexico, it is a well known fact that the cartels are active with many of the gangs in America and drugs are not the only things they CAN SMUGGLE to the gangs they are affiliated with. so there is one answer that is true of who is/was supplying guns to the criminals.
This is really starting to look like all the smoke that will lead to the fire of EXECUTIVE ORDERS that will bypass the need to do the will of the majority of Americans. The FBI website crime statistics prove that where there are the lowest gun restrictions where the law abiding citizens are allowed to own legally there is the lowest crime rates.... look it up. where there are the strictest gun restrictions for law abiding citizens, there are much higher crime rates.... the criminals have always been able to get the drugs that are illegal to sell, they will always get the guns needed to commit the crimes while law abiding citizens do not because they cannot by the law buy guns for protection. what i just typed is fact. look it up if you have the time so the gun argument you have whether it is for or against can be an educated argument. I personally do not own any guns.
also, to the person who suggests letting people who have mental illness be in a public database... what would that mean for my friends wife who suffers severe post pardem depression but who would never hurt a fly. do we all deserve to know her personal struggles with life. Do the parents who happen to look at the database that mention it in feront of there children who in turn go to school and make fun of her children really need to know. How many of you out there have said... man that person pisses me off, i would love to (fill in your own blanks).... need to be in a database also when we the majority may think it, or casually say it... do we all need to be in a database. this Country is really getting out of logical control in many ways.
If any of you want to collapse my comment... just remember, is what I say wrong or do you just not like the fact that I may be right.
have a good day my vine friends.
R.M. Fields has made a legitimate threat to murder people soon. He or she made a particular point of saying he or she is "serious" about the threat. Our responsibility as citizens is to detect individuals who are at risk of causing harm to others and reporting them to the authorities. If this person does go on a rampage, we all share blame. I have reported the post to my local police department and I have contacted MSNBC. I encourage every person who wants to help stop gun violence to do the same.
News Flash, to you morons who don't know what the hell you're talking about. Numerous posters are implying you just go into the store, pick out your favorite heater, and proceed to checkout. NOT SO! Anyone buying a gun from a gun dealer in Wisconsin has to pass a background check FIRST. Besides that, if the logic is that "well its all Wisconsin's fault that we have people killing each other in Illinois", wouldn't it follow that Milwaukee or Wisconsin in general would have gun violence rates as high or higher than Schitcago? But that isn't the case is it.
JS in SD
If you really want to do something to help reduce gun violence, petition for a change to the HIPAA laws so that the government can build a nationwide database of those who have been treated for mental health problems. Current federal privacy laws prevent this from happening. This makes it impossible to check to see if someone has a history of mental health problems before they are sold a weapon. Since most mass shootings are carried out by people who are mentally ill, this would do far more to stop gun violence than any assault weapons ban. Unfortunately, the liberals in DC are more concerned with personal privacy of the mentally ill then they are with keeping them from getting their hands on weapons and killing a bunch of people. Better mental health programs and better ways of identifying those people with mental health issues, not more gun laws, is what we really need if we want to reduce the number of mass shootings in this country.
__________________________________________________________________________________
The big problem with this is you drive the mentally ill to not seek help since they would have no privacy. You also open up their family members to loosing their right to own a gun. That could also include anyone that has been prescribed any number of drugs such as, was this person given a sleeping pill because they have mental problems or they really just couldn't get to sleep. It becomes a very slippery slope when you try and go in this direction.
Remember hardtostarboard, it's ANYTHING but the fault of the criminal. it's the plastic and metal gun's fault, it's the law abiding citizen's fault, it's the manufacturer's fault...heck, it could be because of global warming.
ANYTHING but addressing the fact that criminals don't care one iota about following the law, and as such, adding more laws atop the laws that currently exist will do absolutely nothing but to waste time and money.
hows that gun control working for ya all up in chicago Obama !!!!only the thugs got control of the guns in the "windbag city"
Being a rural Illinois resident, I can only say .........Chicago is an embarrassment, to the rest of us wanting to call this state our home!!!
To all who responded to my original comment:
I never said that there should or shouldn't be gun control laws. All I said is that the claim "we don't need gun laws because they don't stop criminals, as criminals don't follow the law" is flawed logic.
And to then point out the flaw in your rebuttal to me: In that case, drugs should be legal. Anything that you could do that is harmful while on drugs is already against the law (harming others, driving under the influence, etc.) -- thus, drug laws are as superfluous as gun control laws.
Condolences to the family and friends of this poor girl. Senseless is the best explanation for this tragedy.
Our thoughts and prayers are with you.
"When guns are banned only crimnals, ban, blah, blah, blah..."
The fact that we have more guns floating around in circulation in this country than almost anywhere else in the world couldn't POSSIBLY have anything to do with how often they are used, could they. Yeah, I'll agree having a "gun free zone" is ridiculous in a limited area. It's like closing one liquor store because they were selling to alcoholics but leaving the one right next door to it open.
Ok, about 80% of those writing in are ignorant scum. "F" the talk of gun laws, Liberals, Conservatives, etc. this is about a young beautiful girl who was gunned down. Honor her by just sending condolences. Keep the politics for another article. I just hope they track down the piece of sh*t. No doubt he is some useless garbage just taking up good space.
"They should wall off the city of Chicago, evacuate the women and children, set up cameras all over the place, and let the hood rats kill each other off, ala "The Running Man"."
Ima thinking more like "Escape from New York" with Kurt Russell.
Hi Chuck in Olathe..............long time no see...............did you ever get over the Benghazi issue? Seems any event nowadays is a ripe opportunity to bash the President. Take a collision at sea article and Ooooh... A nautical themed article can be used to bash Obama. How delightfully fun. Can EVERYTHING be used to blame Obama? A mother in Florida killed herself and her children several days ago? That's because she was despondent over Obama's endorsement of same-sex marriages! Wild fires are raging in Arizona or some other area? The people there are REALLY HOT over Obama's policies! My... This is fun!
what is the problem, no one wants to say; so here it is; the inner city Gang-bangers are all armed ,(illegal so); they buy, steal rent borrow their guns from the other Gang-bangers; then they go out to settle a score, because they believe their culture requires them do do what a man gang-banger is supposed to do; it is a culture and a race thing, and it is out of control, some of these idiots by the time they are a adult have a criminal record two pages long, and worse of all, they are proud of their record, it is a badge of honor in the gang; why would a 16-22 year old work at McDonald's for 8 dollars a hour, when they can make a couple hundred dollars in a couple of hours running dope for the kingpins!
Wow! This discussion thread is eye-opening; and not in a good way.
What has happened to our humanity? A young girl is killed and the first comment posted concerning her death is inane, followed by dozens more comments pushing partisan socio-political positions, opinions about gun control, race (and even outright bigotry). But the thread is strikingly absent of compassion for the death of this child.
What has happened to our country that so many of us appear to no longer have compassion arrows in our quivers; just pointed divisive polemics. Do our comments reflect the America that we want; an America where every event and tragedy is proof of some Left or Right plot, some Liberal or Conservative failing, or inadequacy?
If this is not the America we want, has it occurred to any of us that we are a part of the problem? Are we unable to see that we can do a lot to begin to turn the tide of our national dialog by making our own rhetoric more civil and less accusatory? How about a little introspection?
"Civility. Pass it on."
What a devastating loss!
Shawn, First you have to ask the question, how are criminals getting the guns? Unfortunately in two many different ways and these are just some examples. 1) Because background checks are not mandatory or differ in each state gives criminals loopholes to jump through to get the guns. 2) Private citizens can sell to any Joe off the streets without even knowing their history whether it is about mental health or prison records. 3) Gun owners who leave their homes and don't put their weapons in a safe and then they are stolen. Also and this I heard from a gun owner like myself who was at a gun show and saw someone sell 8 weapons from his car before walking into the show. Ask the question and find a way to stop the enabling of criminals to get the guns. This isn't just about the guns either, it is a multifaceted problem and all issues must be considered to find a solution. I'd say about 99% of people who advocate gun control do not wish to take away anyone's 2nd Amendment right. It is all about stopping the criminals and dangerous people from gaining access to guns. I wish the NRA would get on board and say yes we need to do something about giving criminals this ability to kill others. Arming ourselves and putting armed guards in schools is acting after the fact, it is doing something after we let the criminals get the guns. Why don't we do something to prevent them from getting them in the first place!
Ok... So a nice girl, young and promising, gets shot in the back in "incidental" gun violence in public, runs in terror until she collapses short of the loved ones she was probably desperate to reach, and the answer from many of you is just to act like the ignorant pig-hearted POS's that you are and try to make it fit your unguided or directly guided viewpoints.
You little whippin' puppies that think the NRA is doing anything besides riding your back-sides for profit are almost too stupid to suck air... You can't tell the difference between reasonable gun control actions and "losing rights to an amendment you can't even understand even though it's only a few sentences long. you're incapable of understanding ANY historical reference and afraid of your own shadows. Don't worry though, you'll never cast a big enough one to matter anyway.
No one is taking anything away from you. You should be able to wrap your heads around that because it's incredibly simple, like you. Apparently many of you feel this girl died to make you appear less like imbeciles. She didn't. Stop humping the coffin of someone of greater worth for freak satisfaction.
@ dirp ---- i call bull@!$%# i live in indiana and we have gun checks , and 10 day wait
Marklepew - get that gerbel a new hat!
Sure, any issue is an opportunity to bash Barry. He's about as bashable as it gets. How is it that liberals decide that unborn babies and lawful gun owners surrender their rights but spotted owls and convicted murderers are protected?
RIP Hadiya
The foolish mayor of Chicago, the Obama Admin. and their followers are going about this all wrong.
They go after law abiding citizens and gun manufacturers. They go after the second amendment even though they say they are not. What a load of cra*p.
This is so wrong.
They need to go after the gang members & thugs.
It's very easy to do with common sense. The police forces all around this country know who the gang groups are.
Sometimes I feel that the mayor of Chicago can do more but he chooses not to, knowing that all these killings will make it easier for him to fight against the use of guns.
It's all a calculated plan. Why the people of Chicago don't stand up against the mayor is something I don't understand. Can't they see they are being used. Add this young lady to the list of being used.
Well, I will say: it seems gun control is working quite well in Chicago.
(/sarc!)
Don't you people read? Chicago doesn't have violence because of strict gun laws. They have strict gun laws due to the sheer amount of violence and murder that permeates the city. Really, if you've never live in or spent time in Chicago then you opinion is uninformed. When I left in the early 90's kids were shooting and killing each other for Air Jordans and Starter Jackets. It has only gotten worse in the years since. They have those strict laws for a reason.
So what's new in Chicago!!!! They have the strictest gun laws, yet the criminals always have guns and always will, and then the gov't wants to restrict the rights of law abiding citizens so we can't protect ourselves. What some brains we have running this country!
The difference is that Murder is wrong, Rape is wrong.
Owning a gun is not inherently wrong. There are lots of reasonable legal purposes to own a gun. As for drugs there is more and more a push to legalize a lot of drugs because the laws do not affect any of the bad behavior, create a criminal environment in the production, sale and quest for money to purchase the drugs, and the government could also gain tax revenue from the sales if it were legalized.
So you following your so called logic to it's obvious conclusion led you know where. Hope you had a nice trip.
Many of our rights have restrictions. We have the right to life peaceably assemble. That doesn't mean that we can march a thousand people into a hospital and disrupt treatment while screaming chants. The 2nd amendment isn't a blank check stating that you can arm yourself however you see fit.
Also, saying that Chicago has high crime because they have strict gun laws is an ignorant fallacy. They have the laws they do because of the extreme violence in that city. Also, where do you think criminals get their illegal guns? Most are stolen from your law abiding citizens and redistributed underground. Legal or illegal more guns = more guns and Chicago doesn't need any more guns.
Say, Mr. Mayor, Mr. Rahm Emanuel, Mr. Tough Guy, where are you, where's your mouth now? What have you been doing the past 2 years? Where's the Commissioner? Are you boys sleeping? We never had such killing when Mayor Daley was in office. Do something...get going.
What's in the water is NO jobs, Despair, helplessness for starters.
This is just sad!!!!
Hello folks, the constitution is the law of the land. If this administration wants to change the constitution there is a process to do that. Otherwise we don't have to comply with anything else. It would be unconstitutional.
cory1980, #1.7- That's exactly the first thing I thought! Seemed very targeted, as to send a message. (Almost "desperately" manic and driven, or something, in making the point. Distorted Mania and Bravado, like a secret Vigilante) It seems like Chicago really needs to try and get a grasp on "potentially" who's NOT SAFE right now. Instead of idiotic calls for a tax on each bullet.
This smells worse than limberger in a pile of $#!t. Turn some cute little girl into a national figure and a couple of days later she's publicly assassinated in public in a run-by shooting? Surely the gun-grabbers wouldn't do something that unbelievably nasty, would they? Would they?...
My condolences to the family. That really is a shame, she seemed like a great girl with a good future. Now, it would be interesting to find out whose payroll the shooter was on. Hmmmmmmmmm...?
Poor Feisty. The shoe is on the other foot and her own words are used against her.
Sally -
"Needle In A Hay Stack banned, re-reg of bigbenalaska and others."
-banned because it is true ?
interesting
Yes, people are pathetic if they turn this into a political issue but the thing is that the facts are true. What do I mean? The answer to that question is a complicated one. This girl was living in a safe neighborhood that had no crime problem whatsoever. She chose to sing at the inauguration of yet another Liar/Jerk-in-Chief (and I consider the candidates from the left, right, middle, AND fringe to ALL be such individuals). This girl gets shot down a week later and she had her whole life ahead of her (though she would have probably been shot if she was not singing at the inauguration anyway, in which case she would have been buried on page J-16 near the classified ads in the Sun-Tribune) and her friend was also shot and he is clinging to life. To the morons that want to be pro-guns, you all need to shut up and ditto for idiots like takenaka and others that think like that gene pool reject and who also hate guns. The government is NOT there to protect you. The government is there to control and enslave you, or so says the New World Order. Besides that, you can never outlaw ALL weapons, for there ARE some people who fight for a living and, as such, would be considered as, quite literally, personal leathal weapons. I would like for Fascist, weapon and defense item stealing jerks try to have a confrontation with an ex-Navy SEAL, a professional wrestler, MMA fighter, or a martial artist sometime and see how far that they get with trying to get rid of their weapons. I assure you that it would be a short battle and that the four individuals that I had mentioned would come out on the winning end of the fight. Finally, I will close by saying these things to the people in here. I am saying this to the people who lost their little girl and to the family of her friend who was also caught up in the crossfire. I am most sorry for your loss and she had her whole life ahead of her. She had so much potential to change the world and yet some idiot comes along and takes your angel from you. The innocent girl and her loss will be avenged. I am saying this message to the family who had the boy who was injured in the gun fight. Your boy is being prayed for by people who know true compassion and humanity and he will recover. I am saying this message to the family and friends of these two individuals that knew these individuals. You all had better learn to defend yourselves because things WILL get worse and the gangs are nothing but low-end paid assassins for the New World Order. Your skin tones and your origins are irrelevant. You all need to come together as one and put an end to the people who want to take away your means to self-defense, to put an end to the gun control and gun ban organizations as well as the organizations that want to regulate and/or tax your weaponry (for people like Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Stalin, Lenin, Zedong, et al had done the same thing in their empires with a great amount of failure). I must stress this message to you all here today. When you people desire the concept of peace, then you must learn the act of war, for if you want to prevent things like that from happening again, then you must be alert and vigilant to stop these jerks. To put it another way, if you want peace, you must first learn to use any and ALL weapons that are at your disposal, and that DOES include ALL kins of guns. This sad truth might not be a pretty pill for everyone to swallow but, like Buckley's Cough Syrup, it works and it tastes like it does for a reason. However, should you all fail to heed my message, then it will be YOUR names that are in the obituary next because you refused to protect yourselves against the hired guns of the New World Order.
The solution for Rahm "Rambo" Emanuel to control the killings in the hand of delinquents in the street of Chicago, is boycotting any legal business that pruduce and comerce with guns or ammunition, and demandig to the financials institutions do not provide any credit line. Is that the best he can do to control criminals in his neighborhood, this is pathetic criminals do not buy guns in stores, bulling legal business will affect the families of the employees losing their jobs and the deaths will remain the same.
@ Needle and anyone else wanting to take gun rights away:
Hello, trying to find your brain is definitely like a needle in a hay stack! What don't you get about the fact that the criminals will always have guns? Since the good people far outweigh the bad people - if all the good people were armed, we would not have criminals!
Taking away our CONSTITUTIONAL right will never be the answer. Dealing with the criminals appropriately would!
Such hostile responses to me when all I did was point out that the logic didn't make sense. So, hostile in fact, that my comment was collapsed. Also, everyone assumed merely because I pointed out how illogical the point was, that I am pro-gun control, when that isn't necessarily the case.
I'm actually somewhere in the middle of the two sides -- mostly because neither side seems capable of creating a reasonable logical argument for why certain weapons should be legal and others shouldn't.
For example, the pro-gun control side seems to make arbitrary categories of what is too dangerous -- assault rifles, clips sizes. Does a 10 round clip actually make a difference from a 12 round? Does it matter if people can get just get several clips? How about the fact that they're focusing on assault rifles but not other guns which are perfectly legal which fire at the same rate? Again -- totally arbitrary lines are being drawn.
On the other hand, the pro-gun side likes to make two big arguments that are both illogical. 1.) guns must legal so that people can protect themselves from a tyrannical government. The problem with this argument is that these same people aren't arguing that rocket launchers and tanks be legal. Our government has rocket launchers, tanks (and hell, don't forget nukes), for a person to be able to protect themselves from the possibility of our government turning on us, shouldn't a pro-gun advocate ALSO be advocating for making it legal for the average person to own rocket launchers and tanks? The second major argument of the pro-gun side is that "if we make <insert gun here> illegal, then only criminals will have <said gun>." This argument runs into the same problem as the first -- if rocket launchers are illegal, then only criminals have rocket launchers. If bombs are illegal, then only criminals have bombs. And so on and so forth. So, why are you making a stand at assault rifles but not rocket launchers?
As I said, the problem with both side of the argument is they draw absolutely arbitrary lines as to what weapons should or shouldn't be legal. The only difference is that one makes an arbitrary line that is more restrictive than the other. How about we actually do some research and collect some real data about what types of guns are commonly used in crimes, what types of guns do the most damage, which are most likely to result in accidental harm, etc., etc. before making legislation? How about researching ways to keep guns out of the hands of criminals? How about getting states on board with each other to have similiar gun laws so that the efforts of one state aren't ruined by another? How about we stop using the gun debate as a place for political grandstanding? If people actually bothered listening to the what the "other side" are saying, you'd hear a common theme: The real thing we need to do is make sure guns don't end up in the hands of criminals, but are allowed to be in the hands of responsible, properly educated and trained, law-abiding citizens.
The rest of this argument? Is really about political grandstanding, demonizing and misrepresenting the other side of the argument, etc. Shouting your side the loudest doesn't make you right. It just means you are another idiot shouting in the wind.
Rose Colored Glasses, collapsed #1.19- Great point! E) "Most people who live in poverty do not glamorize the "thug life" they just unfortunately live amongst it."
sandmantruth, #1.23- NICE POST!!! all around but especially "when people have no hope of getting out of poverty, they do crazy stuff."
Between those 2 statements it seems like the most critical people to try and reach would be the ones who are living "amongst" it. (and have awareness of how this just isn't right or that just isn't right but have no real and "effective" way to let the Powers that be know about it). It's almost like there should be a truly Annonymus Hotline where, for instance, Someone could call into and report a bad Landlord with no fear of reprisal because the Landlord would be contacted through some others means so they absolutely would not know who was reporting them for violations that exist and are being ignored, etc. Or "Poverty Profiles" done in the Schools, Individually, one on one with each Student and the School Psychologist or Guidance Counselor (or a team of 10 Psychologists brought in for 1 week to do the whole School, if it's a large School); plus maybe something like "written" Hotline Boxes, like a suggestion box at the Customer Service Desk of all Supermarkets where you could put your name and telephone number to be contacted at and whatever it is that you'd like to report; ie "Landlord issue", etc and Somebody from the Police Dept could pick up the slips from all the boxes everyday and go through them, or something like that. The Person still gets to report whatever they need to report and it would be guaranteed to be handled "confidentially", however it had to be handled and not acted upon in any way that, say your Landlord, would ever know that it came from you, etc. Think about it, all these PROBLEMS OF POVERTY and no way to let anyone know about it or be heard about it without fear of reprisal. AND ESPECIALLY when you're talking about something so central to your life, like that GREAT FEAR of being retalliated against and losing your home, as example, etc.......
Just sayin'. Just trying to at least throw some kind of suggestion out there.
Local Boy,
You seem to have missed the point. In fact, I agree with you -- there is something inherently wrong in murder and not in gun ownership. That doesn't change the fact that the argument that I have seen repeated over and over in this comments section that "Gun laws are pointless because criminals don't follow laws anyway" is illogical. If you use the same logic and apply it to ANY other law, it becomes ridiculous. The argument you started making about there being nothing inherently wrong in owning gun has the beginnings of some logical merit. However, no matter how you cut it -- the argument that guns laws are pointless because criminals don't follow laws is not ever going to be logical. People need to stop using the argument because it's senseless, ridiculous, and indefensible.
Furthermore, you are right -- there are some people who are advocating for the legalizing of (certain) drugs. However, I would wager that many of the people here who are using the argument that "there are already laws against murder, so we don't need laws against guns" would disagree when the same logic was applied to drugs. Not all would balk, but many would. So again, it becomes clear there is a flaw in their argument -- the believe in the argument until the SAME argument is applied to something they're against.
Not to mention, the vast majority who are arguing for drug legalization are arguing ONLY for certain drugs (such as pot), not all drugs. So even those who advocate for the legalization of drugs would probably still balk at the same logic being applied to say, heroin. Point being, the argument "there are already laws against possible negative consequences of X, thus there is no reason to regulate/illegalize X" is also illogical (or at the very least hypocritical), because few people would be willing to apply that same argument to other things (like hard drugs).
Oops...the point has been missed. The restriction/banning whatever on semi-automatic, automatic, assault rifles etc and high capacity ammo magazines/clips (more than 2 all a good hunter should ever need) etc (covered all the bases for you semantics nuts and specific enough - look at the Australian Laws if you need a good working example - no mass murders by gun since the laws came in to place and I still hunt every season - I rely on intelligence, awareness, and commonsense to protect my family which seems to be working we are all OK) are an effort to stop the random mass shootings in schools, theaters and the like by angry, crazy, upset, criminally insane, or just plain unhappy people who have the ability to easily obtain weapons of mass devastation. They are not going to stop gang bangers, armed robbers, two macho gunslingers in an argument over dog poop on the lawn, or a spouse who wants to collect on the life insurance or not pay alimony.
Laws unfortunately don't necessarily act as a deterrent some times restrictions are required, laws do provide an ability and grading to meld out punishment.....that is something that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately that will require more prisons....governments don't like prisons they cost money, don't garner votes, and are not seen or heard they don't make good advertising.
It will also require more police and law enforcement once again that costs money....ever notice how when governments claim they are out of money (especially local and state governments) they say "we" have to make cuts they always start with the services that the people really want and need like police, fire, education, health etc never with their own perks or projects.....but I digress.
Laws and law enforcement are not the only answer yes attention must be paid to mental health, violent movies and games, gangs, unemployment, hate, political polarization (I notice one clown above related this all back to the abortion debate, huh???), the demise of the family unit (black, white, green, brown) all of these things are rolled up in to the problem of rampant and reoccurring violence in America and in the human race in general......however one thing is for sure if one of those types don't have the ability to easily get hold of a weapon of mass devastation the likelihood of one being used in another random shooting is considerably reduced......anyone who can not understand that or tries to argue that it would be better if teachers, ushers, ministers etc were armed or armed guards were placed in schools, theaters, churches, political rallies, amusement parks, universities well everywhere and that will somehow reduce the body count rather than increase the devestation is or is likely to become one of "those people" and should immediately have all guns and sharp objects removed from their playpens.....have I made myself perfectly clear?
TERM LIMITS FOR ALL ELECTED OFFICALS THE ONLY ANSWER - JON HUNTSMAN 2016
I will bet 5/1 that the perp had no idea of who he was shooting at, and was in some sort of conflict [running away] and saw a group of people. He didn't think twice and shot, then kept running for his life. I will also wager that the gun he used was not legally purchased, nor was he a member of the NRA. Just a typical day in any inner city of America.
Here we go. Start the gun debate.
well sure, that's what the story is about and what gives NBC their click numbers.
There is no debate.
Killers own guns.
Killers use those guns to kill.
If you want to stop gun deaths, you have to get rid of the guns.
Or get rid of the killers...
There are billions of guns, there are thousands of killers. Now which one is easier to get rid of? Do you really think killers who break the law on a daily business will care about a gun control law?
That's like saying if we get rid of drone attacks, we'll be saving innocent muslim women and children because they were 'hanging out' with terrorists. Lesson to kids here is don't hang out with people who have already made themselves live targets!
Just below this article you'll see a line that says:
Explore related topics: shooting, chicago, gun-control, inauguration, hadiya-pendleton
Let's face it, If you can't disarm street gangs the next best thing is to disarm everybody else.
Why not? It is a perfect example of why restricting guns for law abiding citizens has no positive effect on crime.
We will Lay Down our Guns when Hussein's Secret Service Does. NOT Going To Happen this Side of JESUS' Return!
Alan: who is Hussein ?
The little girl who was GUNNED down was a law abiding citizen. That did not prevent her from being shot.
The only way to prevent people from being shot is to eliminate the guns.
It may be difficult, it may take a long time, but that is how we ended slavery, gave women the right to vote and gave the vote to those 18 year's old.
For that matter, the founding of our current republic took thousands of years.
There is nothing sacred about the right of KILLERS to have guns. Like anything else in the Constitution (slavery, voting of Senators by state legislators, unlimited terms for the President) the Constitution can be amended to remove this anachronism.
Well dirp, as long as we have the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment, my guns are safe. As long as we have the 4th Amendment, my guns are safe. As long as we have the 1st Amendment, we are all safe to say whatever we want here in Newsvine.
The 2nd Amendment is merely the insurance policy for the rest of the Constitution.
Dirp, in a perfect world, all the guns and weapons would be gone, and we could all hold hands and sing, I like to teach the world to sing ! It's not going to happen ! If the government and everyone, including the criminals gave up the guns, I would to. I am more scared of the government than the hoods on the street. Without notice yesterday, they flew Helicopters into a poor Houston neighborhood and had soldiers repelling out of copters, soldiers in cammo running down the streets firing their weapons, under the guise of training for urban warfare, imagine that. They are out of control !
And of course not one major news network carried the story, they did it in Miami a couple of days before Houston !
Actually, the gang members are smarter than all of us. They know that the more mayhem they cause, the more the legal, law abiding public will be shut down for owning firearms. Then, the only ones with the firearms will be them. The logic is insidious. I actually look for more incidents in the near future, just for this point. Think I'm wrong? Just keep watching.
Many condolences to the family of this young lady. I can't imagine the pain they are suffering. Violent acts, committed by violent people, harm us all. We need to start valuing and protecting the important things in the world, like life, responsibility, happiness, constructiveness. We need to work together to build a better planet. Harming one another is going the wrong direction. My deepest sympathies to them.
Put the gun on a table and not one single person dies.. Guns do not kill people, the person behind the gun kills people.
more people were killed in 2011 with hammers then assault rifles ( per the FBIs own data released )
BAN HAMMERs.
Dirp, I cant believe we have fools in this nation who actually believe crap like you post Dirp...
dirp - or get rid of the KILLERS maybe?!?! wow. No bias there. What, you want coddle these criminals, is that it? "Maybe they can change." Perfect example of a delusional mind.
Fine, lets go your route. Take all guns away. Ok, how are YOU going to do that? We can't even keep "undocumented " immigrants from entering the country on a daily basis yet you can confiscate millions of firearms?? You are truly incompetent.
Alan, why don''t you take off your tin foil hat, it's not very attractive.
"Life is tough, it's even tougher when you're stupid." John Wayne
We need stricter gun laws now! They would have prevented this from happening!
Haxor...There's no easy way to say this. You're an idiot. You, and people like you throw out words like "Communism," and you obviously have no clue as to what it means. You don't give an "F" about a little girl senselessly murdered? You obviously don't have the mental stability to own a weapon.
dirp
There is no debate.
Killers own cars.
Killers use those cars to kill.
If you want to stop car deaths, you have to get rid of the cars.
FYI - 99% of murder with guns are pistols, why isn't the left trying to ban pistols. (Well besides the crazies that want ALL guns banned)
Another point: As with all of our rights;The Government doesn't give us the right to defend ourselves, that is given by our creator (whomever you believe that to be) and the constitution guarantees the Government can't take those rights away.
Haxor. First off... you are the most disturbed person I've seen post a comment on here. A person who feels absolutely nothing for the victim and seems proud to say they don't care. And then to go on and describe attacking/killling others, in such detail, is so so disturbing. And your views on the guns being used by criminals only come from other countries proves further you are delusional. And then let's look at your last statement, sounds like a threat against the life of the President of the United States. You do know that puts you at the top of the most wanted. Please go back to the cave you crawled from and leave the intelligent discussions to others.
Wow Haxor...not feeling the love...you say it is all in the owner and then you proceed to talk about stabbing people...and you own a gun??? SCARY!!!
Svenolafson,
Precisely how would stricter gun laws have prevented this from happening?
I think that a stronger enforcement of the laws that we currently have would have more of a deterrent effect than adding a bunch of new ones.
If the shooter was a gang-member with a prior record, he's a criminal. Stronger enforcement of the laws we have on the books would have likely kept this animal in prison and not on the street. Problem solved.
When we continually release violent predators out of the jails and prisons early or our District Attorneys choose not to enforce the current laws as they are expected to, this is the result.
Haxor should not be able to have a gun. Put these statements in his the up and coming mandatory background check to buy a gun. He won't have a chance. Psychopath.
time to ban inner-city gang bangers
For a city with some of the toughest gun laws in the nation, Chicago has some of the worst gun violence in the nation. This is because they have a major gang problem in Chicago and gangs, as well as other criminals, do not follow gun laws. The idea that more gun laws, assault weapons bans, etc. are going to do anything to reduce gun violence is pure fiction. If you want to do something about gun violence try enforcing the laws we already have and making the punishments for violating them more meaningful. If you get caught with an illegal gun it should be an automatic 5 years in prison. If you are caught with a gun during the commission of a crime it should be and automatic 25 years in prison. After all, the only reason to carry a gun during the commission of a crime is if you intend to use it, so this should be considered an attempted murder, whether you fire the gun or not. Maybe if criminals knew they were facing these stiff penalties they would think twice before carrying a gun. As for the so-called assault weapons ban, it is a joke. None of the weapons they are talking about banning are truly assault weapons. They are all nothing but semi-automatic rifles made to look like assault weapons. True assault weapons are fully automatic. An AR-15, which is one of the weapons frequently pointed to by the ban assault weapons crowd, is a semi-automatic and will only fore one shot each time you pull the trigger. Just because it looks like a military M-16 does not mean it is one. I can fire just as many shots just as quickly with almost any semi-automatic weapon as you can with an AR-15.
If you really want to do something to help reduce gun violence, petition for a change to the HIPAA laws so that the government can build a nationwide database of those who have been treated for mental health problems. Current federal privacy laws prevent this from happening. This makes it impossible to check to see if someone has a history of mental health problems before they are sold a weapon. Since most mass shootings are carried out by people who are mentally ill, this would do far more to stop gun violence than any assault weapons ban. Unfortunately, the liberals in DC are more concerned with personal privacy of the mentally ill then they are with keeping them from getting their hands on weapons and killing a bunch of people. Better mental health programs and better ways of identifying those people with mental health issues, not more gun laws, is what we really need if we want to reduce the number of mass shootings in this country.
This Haxor is one disturbed idiot. The reason why Americans are beign laughed at, I wonder if he is so tough and manly without his little gun. IDIOT!!!!
Haxor, you are heartless. It's disgusting the way you just dismissed this girl's tragic death as if it were an annoyance to you. Why don't you go build a bunker and hole yourself up in it? You can write rambling manifestos there. Please stay away from the rest of us who still have our humanity.
Nothing to do with guns. We have guns in our community and this rarely if ever happens. If you look at this logically and look at communities as control groups they all have guns so guns should be eliminated as the problem.
I find it fascinating that no other city has gang violence and shootings.
It's obvious this is so since NBC objectively reports all news . . . right? And their are never reports on any city other than Chicago.
It amazes me that Haxor puts out an opinion and because of the way he expresses himself that he is crazy and needs to have no guns. I wish you libs would be that adament about criminals crossing our borders and gangs that committed this crime and a whole alot more. You folks want human rights for the main groups killing but absoulutly hate people with an opinion diffrent than yours. Ya'll are the idiots.
@Haxor. I am glad that I am not in your little bubble of whatever. It sounds as if there is only room for one anyway. I am also glad I am not your cat but if I was I would spit up a huge hairball right next to the spilled radiator fluid before I drank it. Sounds like a fun clean up day for ya.
gun laws or no gun laws...
it's like asking "lets end world hunger"..."lets find peace in the middle east" ... "lets stop drug addiction" ...
bottom line....
"nothing's gonna change my world"
rconaster: the Haxster was telling you the truth, the way a real criminal thinks. You've got to see his point of view and how thugs think. He doesn't are about any little girl and he is telling that the thugs that come in illiegally into this country with guns, drugs, etc., are going to continue coming in and that if YOU don't have a way of protecting yourself and family, they do not care about any little girl dying from guns or drugs. That's his point and so, our Country has to focus on corrupt government officials on the "take" when these thugs enter to bring in their drugs & ammo's to sell; if a thief enters your house or the Obaaaama house, shall we do as the president says, "...they are here now" - so, we should honor them? feed them? keep them? support them? what exactly does the president mean? Obaaaaama is my way of saying to you he is a WOLF dressed in sheep's clothing; he talks like a sheep "obaaaaama" but make no mistake his heart is heartless of anything kind. I may be next to get killed for even talking such stuff, but I don't care. The Truth is being trampled in the streets and I am one of the children who belong to the Truth and I will witness against the seed of satan both here in this world and in the next because the judgment of the wicked is being recorded daily by the many sent here by God Himself and there are many of us on earth - angels of God in the form of men - watchers and hearers for the testimony of Jesus Christ against ALL who trample the Truth and Justice of what the Truth IS and the TRUTH is GOD and there is a time coming the wicked will be putting theTRUE FOLLWERS OF THE WORD OF GOD to death. So, Jesus said only "they who endure to the end, will enter the Kingdom of GOD" - may His Grace help us who LOVE HIM, endure because it is going to get very rough in the whole wide world - too much evil, too much corruption, too much subtle schemers against LIFE.
Simple....Anyone found guilty of murder with a gun, automatic death penalty. I would also want to include "attempted" murder. Why should the penalty be less just because they were unsuccessful?
And, not 20 years on death row....1 year.
If you actually start using the death penalty, it will deter crime. Unfortunately, it's not used enough...And, it would help with over-crowding in prisons.
How can this be? Chicago has some of the most strict gun laws in the nation... Really think gun control helps?
DIRP i cant tell if your sarcastic or incredibly stupid. please help me out. next there should be rewards for killing gang members display colors and die. take all the guns you want and these @!$%#bags will still have them and causing more deaths with them because there will be no fear of being shot. more gun control doesnt equal less crime just more violent crime
Why is everyone avoiding the elephant in the room? The problem in places like Chicago, D.C., Detroit, Philly, Camden, etc. isn't guns or gun laws or anything else to do with guns, it's the demographic.
Has liberalism completely eroded common sense? Damn your party is dense!
Have much in common with an ostrich?
You are wrong IQ160. If the "good people" express their views on "bad people" with careless words then they are bad too. We can debate God's truth but dead people know the truth about God and His view on what is and isn't true.
Chicago, Proof Gun Control Does Not Work!
The POS that fired those shots went there to commit Murder. Now does one actually think the shooter was worried about violating gun laws when they fired the shots?
Its rather amusing that on this site that the pro-gunners are not allowing the pro-gun control to have their rights of speech on this site they keep censoring truth that is posted by ones that knows that more guns will not prevent gun murders. It shows that most of the ones that is pro gun is also mentaly disturbed and has no right to own a gun There is many so-call responsible gun owners that might pass a mental exam but has a bad temper that pushed would become responsible for a killing.
I'm going to start selling a new anti-gun-pro-choice shirt that reads:
It's my right to kill my baby, not yours!
Can you imagine someone telling all those children at the president's anti-gun signing that over 3000 children a day are killed by their own mothers?
kollector03,
Sarcasm. :)
automatic death penalty for anyone using a gun in the commission of a crime
I am so tired of this "gun debate" BS. Every time something like this happens (daily) each side becomes more entrenched. All of these posts look the same every time. The discussion shouldn't be about the 2nd ammendment, or hunters or "guns don't kill people, peope kill people". Stop the nonsense.
The point is that the US is awash with guns. We have a gun worshing culture. More guns per person than any other country on earth by many times over. And we should be surprised that we have more gun deaths than any other country, many times over? The wing nuts are waiting for the black booted US military to kick down their doors and take their guns away. This twisted vision feeds on itself. We won't move forward as a society until we start worshiping each other instead of guns. Move past it please. It's ok. We're not coming to get you. You don't have to live in fear. It a choice. Take your meds and chill the f*ck out!
A terrible tragedy,and now the people who made Chicago what it is are running the country. Pray for us all
The Drug War is the direct cause of over 51% of all murders in this country, including 50%+ of gun murders. (Add the drug related murders, and the non-gang related drug-related murders, either over drugs or turf, and you get 41% of murders, both in non-gun murders and in gun murder.) If you want to save most of that 51%, legalize drugs.
Gun control, including assault rifle bans and high capacity magazine bans have had no measurable effect on reducing violent crime and murder rates when tried in the past. "Assault" rifles are responsible for 3.5% of homocidesi n the USA, and less than 2% of murders.
As guns have proliferated, high capacity magaznes have proliferated, violent and sexualized TV, movies, and music have proliferated, and single parenthood has risen, we have had a 49% decline in the murder rate (last 20 years, and 20% the last decade). The violent crime rate has fallen at almost the exact same trate over that period. So, logically, there is no correlation between gun ownership rates in the USA and violent crime or murder rates. No correlation means there can be no causality.
Mental illness is also not heavily correlated to violent crime or murder (believe it or not).
Go to this article before you post opposing studies, as it debinks several of the usual studies cited in it's links embedded in the article.
Lu, the last count is 4,000 babies per day. Liberals are such hypocrites. If a Pregnant woman is killed in a car wreck, the person that caused the incident, is charged with two counts of manslaughter...I guess when the baby dies, its considered a life... Back to guns: I believe Rahm Emanuel is in Chicago, obo's right hand man, why hasn't he stopped all of these murders because CHICAGO has the toughest gun laws in the Country.. Its all the Blue states that are high in numbers of murder... Time to check this out..
If you take Chicago, and you can't clean it out with all of these gun laws, how in the h do you expect to do it across the Country? Criminals and Gangs, get down on these people and stop bothering the law abiding citizens of this Country.
shhhh...you're not allowed to say that...it's naughty...and smacks of profiling (the favorite smokescreen of criminals)
....but true, nontheless
Guns are made to kill. They have no other purpose.
Ban them.
I usually come on here to defend the 2nd. Not today. RIP little "walking angel."
A topic for thought for any of you who can think and not just parrot:
NYC has a falling murder rate. Chicago not so much. Each has received BILLIONS to combat gangs. Each has strict gun control laws.
Could it be that the famous Chicago political corruption ($$$$) is to blame for the difference?
Chicago... a nice place to be from
First of all Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation and this shooting still happened. Barack Husien Obama can not take the guns out of the hands of criminals, there for it is only law abiding citizens that are going to be disarmed and the criminals are going to run ramped while you call 911 and wait for police responce. GOOD LUCK WITH THAT If us country folks don't keep the coyote population down you Chicago folk will be seeing more of them on your back porch. I can't wait to see that happen.
And yet because of game theory mathematics, and the deterent factors it creates, guns save more lives every year than they take via murder. Look it up. The lowest credible estimates are tens of thousands of lives saved with guns annually in the USA, and the highest numbers (which seem a bit incredible to me) are 2.5 million lives saved a year in the USA. Either way, more lives are saved by guns annually in the USA than are taken via murder...it's not really all that debatable (although people do it anyways), and it is quite logical.
The FBI has estimated that 750,000 crimes are thwarted by private guns every year. If just 1% of those saved 2 lives, or 2% saved one life, etc., then about 15,000 lives are saved and that is 4,000 more than taken by guns. Meanwhile, no more than .026% of gun owners (legal or illegal) murder anyone with a gun. No less than 99.974% of gun owners DO NOT murder anyone with a gun. As an American you have an average .0041% chance of being murdered by a gun.
Game theory is why we arm cops. Deterent factor (unexploitable strategy).
First off, my condolences to the girls family.
Secondly to paws post...
Why limit the death penalty just to killers who use guns? Why not make it a part of anyone killing with pre-meditation? The driveby was premeditated regardless of who died.
BTW - We have all learned by now that the argument for having the death penalty as a means to deter someone from killing is a false argument. The death penalty is nothing more than metting out just punishment for pre-meditated murder.
What a joke you nuts are. Let's see, Chicago, strong gun laws, big crime rate. Yep, well friends what if there were no gun controls in those cities, you think crime would be under control?? I suspect not many sane people would live there at all.
Keep it up, I think you are making the case for all us reasonable gun owners to loose our rights, just keep it up. There are reasonable ideas but not on this forum.
Pro individual,
Account suicides and accidents into your analysis of assault weapon homocides and it drops by about half. ~1.7% versus 3.5%
American,
I am pro death penalty. But I would want clear undeniable evidence (EX: Aurora shooter is undeniable) before execution. Another example: gettting caught at the scene with the weapon by the police. To think of the number of people freed from prison for wrongful prosecution recently and not consider deterrents from executing the wrong person would be terrible!
Lastly, automatic death penalty would likely stop alot of crimes. It may also lead to more people commiting suicides right after the incident (a trend that continues to grow).
Chicago is one of the most corrupt cities in America political wise. You want to clean up the streets, I would suggest removing the crooks in office. Gun control or not (in which they have very tight gun control laws by the way), you won't stop crime with the gang bangers until the gang bangers in office (where Obama once led by the way) are halted. Sad to see innocent lives lost like this. Parents almost need to keep their kids inside in that city. wow.
Haxor's comment - #2.16 - is one of the most disturbing I've seen in a really long time! In many ways, that post reads like a trolls post--stated only to stir the pot and get attention. But also there is the possibility that IQ160 commented about (#2.34) - that is definitely a possibility! A peek into the mind of how a thug thinks.....
Switzerland requires that everyone has a gun in their home. It's a Swiss made assult rifle. They have the lowest gun crime on the planet. WHY?!? They respect each other. They respect life. The believe in personal responsibility. We used to. Liberals have taught our kids that there's no winners, there's no losers and if you can't take care of yourself the government will take care of you (no personal responsibility). Oh yeah, and they're taught: there is no God. This is the result!!
Haxor banned, new user death trolling already.
No thanks.
If it is OK to restrict rights under the 2nd Amendment, then it is OK to restrict rights to assemble, rights to speach. Can't own a machine gun, can't yell "fire" in a theatre. SO Gang bangers should not have the right to assemble. When they assemble they threaten everyone in the neighborhood. When they assemble they either act against public safety or they conspire to act against public safety. Such a threat is as real and as dangerous as yelling "fire" in a theatre. It's a worse hazard to public safety than calling 911 with a bogus call - people do get arrested for that - it is not protected speach under the constitution. So put more and more cops in the hoods, go after gang bangers, chase 'em down, shoot 'em on sight if their hands aren't high and empty. Do not simply make this a restriction on legal gun owners and leave the gangs alone.
its a good thing that chicago's strict gun laws prevented this from happening.
wait no, the guns themselves arent the problem, its the people holding them.
And this at the very moment that NRA's LaPierre is testifying before Congress about how guns don't kill people.That argument stinks as far as this girl's family is concerned.
Forget all of the gun control hoooey. I's really a different subject than Chicago's ills.
I say, with no reservation, call in the National Guard. Have them first protect the streets and then begin a systematic search in crime-ridden areas to catch the young punks and remove illegal firearms. In a year, the problem will be solved.
we need sensible "SCUM CONTROL , not gun control ,control all the scumbags ! psychos ,gangbangers ,thugs,criminials,dirty cops and crooked politicians !!!! have a "SCUM BUYBACK PROGRAM" where we can turn in "scumbags" top dollar paid ,double for dirty cops and crooked "assault politicians"
Didn't a person kill her? I mean the gun didn't fire itself here. I agree it is no consolation to her family, but clearly he's right. Guns have risen in number while the murder trate has fallen...there isn't even a correlation, let alone causation. The govt will do anything to avoid the real cause of most (50%+) of gun murder and murder (51%+) generally...the illegalization of drugs which causes all the drug gangs to exist and all the non-gang related drug murders. And BTW...the NRA isn't going to name that as the cause either because their donors are neocons who love the Drug War in the face of all logic and reason that should have them disdain and abandon it.
We are not in a state of emergency (in fact the murder rate is down, not up, despite media attention being more pervasive than ever - which skews perception), and the Founders would NEVER back such a thing. It violates their high distrust of standing armies, armies policing the people, the 4th Amendment (search and seizure restrictions based on probable cause and/or reasonable suspicion FIRST on INDIVIDUALS, not groups) and Posse Comitatus (law).
That is as much an overreaction as the gun control....or moreso.
Fell for it again huh? See y'all tomorrow
Two questions.
Do all kids get out of school at 2:20 pm nowadays on a school day?
Do all kids send their last "tweet" out at 1 am on a school day?
Well, first off, I'm SURE that, with gun control, this gangbanger would have turned in his weapon.
Second, I'm SURE he submitted to a background check before he got his gun.
Third - I wonder how many bullets his gun held ?
First off, I would guess that having strick gun laws in one place means nothing because they are not as strict somewhere else; as in state laws versus national laws. Second there are many reasons for having laws...deterence and punishment are usually at the top of the list. Few people I know believe that laws stop crime from ever happening. Third Banning rocket propelled grenade launchers don't interfere with owning other weapons. I have not heard a serious arguement for banning all guns or weapons, only some weapons, like sword sticks. Virtually no one is killed with sword sticks and yet they are outlawed in California. Also banning large capacity clips is not a ban on any gun.
As for registering the mentally ill. Does anyone in your family suffer from depression, eating disorder, a learning disability, ocd, a phobia perhaps. You really want your ocd family member tracked and followed on a national data base. How about your learning disabled child nationally tracked from early childhood as a mentally ill person. Each of these people are considered mentally ill.
These gang bangers are what is holding chicago back. May I suggest tying anchors to them and dropping them in the middle of the ocean somewhere??
A damn shame - like alll the other damn shames.
WOW NBC!!! You are actually letting any post that is for gun control be deleted? And these are rational posts. Is there anybody looking at this board?
This gun control debate is getting stupid. All of you gun lovers will just about say anything to keep your guns. I am sick and tired of all the gun advocates comparing guns to cars, knives, bats, hammers, etc. The flaw in your logic is that all of those items are not designed to kill. Most people that die from a car are because of accidents (99% of gun deaths are not accidents). Anybody that has been killed with a knife, bat or a hammer at least had a fighting chance (Nearly of all gun deaths the victim had no chance of survival).
Most of Europe has strict gun control laws and the number of gun related deaths are ridiculously lower than the United States. I saw a report that England (very strict gun laws) only had between 40-50 gun realted deaths in the entire year of 2011. Chicago on the other hand already has 40 this year.
To own a gun in some countries in Europe you have to register, insure, and lock it away or you could lose your permit to have a gun. Also some countries only allow you to have a gun if you are police or are a member of a shooting club (registered, licensed, and pay dues).
The only way to end all of this madness is for the United States to have very strict gun control laws.
@what_the_81- Save the anchors, most gang bangers can't swim.
While I don't think we need an Uzi for home defense, I don't want the government telling me what I can or can't have to defend myself. The same government agencies that are in favor of an "assault weapon" ban are the exact same agencies that are buying real assault weapons, the ones that actually fire automatic. What for? If the civilian populace don't need assault weapons, why do they?
The object of the government trying to disarm the civilian population is to make that population completely dependent on the government for everything. When we have no means to defend ourselves, we are completely at the government's mercy.
Until you loose a child by a gun don't judge the next man - guns need to harder to get - Nobody is trying to invade your 2nd amendment rights here just controlling the lunatic that fires these dangerous gun and most household already have them and they are the one i'm afraid of, look what happen last month and the month before people are dying out here and it could be you or your child next how would you feel and most of them that are committing the crime are the ones with parents own assault weapons already! I think we are using excuses to keep our assault weapons and not really seeing the whole picture or what could happen if your child uses one to kill a group of people, I think we are sending wrong message to our children and we will pay dearly because it is bound to happen again! I keep hearing the good guys with guns are alright, now i would like for someone to tell me who is the good guy, what make him a good guy and how do i know he's the good guy and why would i trust him to be a good guy, we are loosing it here in America without gun control it will be another wild wild west and many people will be killed - do we really want to go back to those days?
I feel bad that she can't even be in her own community, her home, without having harm and death come to her. R.I.P. You went before your time.
I would in a million years never, never live in Chicago... one of the most restrictive gun laws city and one of the highest gun crime cities... Say all there is about the correlation between gun laws and gun crime. ... doesn't work.
And as for the amending the Constitution, this right to bear arms was one of the Bill of Rights Amendments to protect our person and our rights as individuals. It's what made America, America. To change it you would be changing what America stood for. Freedom from government.
I was against the patriot act and am against changing current gun laws as well. We need to enforce the ones we have, not erode our Constitution more. We need to start treating these gang bangers like the dirt bags that they are and take them out. They are our domestic terrorists.
A criminal safe haven.
Chicago should find a qualified community organizer for once.
Posted this earlier but it was removed.
Terrible waste! poor child, My Sympathies to the Family.
Its obvious that the laws in Chicago are not working, so what makes some people think that more and tougher laws will help? this is gang war that is going on in Chicago, they don't care about who gets hurt, they don't care about laws, what will work is the same tactics that were used in the 20's & 30's against the gangsters like Pretty boy Floyd, Bonnie and Clyde, the Barrows, John Dillinger, the only way those people were removed from the picture was by violence, they were targeted and ambushed, no rights, little concern about collateral damage just take them out by using special organized task forces, if you want to stop the killing then get some exterminators find the targets and take them out its war, treat it like war, establish a perimeter close exits, enter and purge, get it over with nothing else will work, there is no law that says they have to attend their trial give them their trial, but make sure that they do show up for their execution. gangs kill! to be affiliated with a gang is cause enough for a automatic death penalty, seal of the troubled part of town declare a state of emergency, go in and clean house, its the only way! that or starve them out.
now we know that the Liberals will start screaming for the criminals rights, we can't deny them their rights or due process but on the other hand we can go after the law abiding citizen and take their rights away, that will solve the problem with the criminals. disarm America and we can all be like Chicago, either way the constitution is at risk and so is your safety, we have had to use the Army to put down disobedience before the trick is to do it before it becomes massive civil disobedience, so its simple go after the gangs and leave the citizens alone, don't do it with the idea you are going to lock up the bad guys, go in with the intent to eliminate the problem once and for good. why not kill the bad guys they are going to kill you. Obama, Fienstine, all the near sighted Liberals, want to tell you to disarm yourself, then what? let the criminals run wild? Bad people always go for the easy targets, is our government on our side? is Fienstein going to give up her gun? Biden says you don't need a rifle or a pistol a shotgun works better for home defense, Fienstein wants your shotgun too. don't give them anything, this is a set up. if they won't deal with the real problem impeach them and get someone that will.
look at how well the government is taking care of you, people dying in the streets and parks from runaway violence and they want to take away the only real defense you have.
The solution for gun control lobbyist and some Democrats, to reduce or eliminate crime caused for guns is take away guns from law abiding citizens and leave the rest to criminals. Gun control is not for criminals, ormentaslly ill people, the crime rate will remain the same because the majority of crimes are commit for delinquents who don't care about laws, not gun owners, this is a fact. All this is about politics not about real solutions.
I'd like to ask Jeremy or anyone else claiming hammers more deadly than guns, when was the last time you'd hear of a drive-by hammering?
Would the nut if Sandy Hook killed 26 people with a hammer without someone being able to disarm him?
Anything can be used as a weapon, but a semi-automatic gun with a large capacity clip will kill many more people in a shorter period of time than most manually used weapons (knife, hammer, rock).
@willylump- Far more people die from alcohol related automobile "accidents" than gun violence. If you are driving drunk and kill someone, it is no different that picking up a pistol and shooting someone between the eyes. Both are intentional actions since you can't accidentally drive drunk. You don't have a fighting chance when you are T-Boned at an intersection by a drunk.
We actually have pretty strict gun laws already on the books. People keep bringing up the gun show "loophole", but they don't know what they are talking about. That loophole only applies to individual transactions, not professional dealers. For example, if I want to sell my shotgun, I can walk around a gun show with a for sale sign on it and sell it to another individual without conducting a background check. That loophole should be closed. Perhaps the FBI could make a smart phone app that conducts a free background check and then we can pass a law requiring a background check for all firearm transactions. I'll even go as far as background checks on ammunition sales.
Even I can be reasonable about this, can you? But it scares me to see a President bypassing Congress by issueing 21 executive orders pertaining to a Constitutionally protected right. Chipping away at your rights makes it less noticeable when they finally take whats left from you.
@JimSpence - I could go off campus during my lunch hour. I bet you would have called me a criminal or gangbanger then. This was a girl who was going places - as attested by her grades. Honor students are generally too smart to fool around like you are insinuating.
I say we ban hammers, cars, alcohol, violent movies, songs that have violent lyrics, violent games, violent images, shows that depict violence (hello Spartacus, the Sopranos, Walking Dead). We also ban baseball bats, knives, pocket knives, and so forth because these have also been used to kill people with. I say the more we ban these items - the more we are going to see the criminal element gain strength. After all - who benefited during the Prohibition? I think one could argue that the criminal elements gained the most.
I bet any one of us could kill someone with something as simple as a rock. The only difference is that most of us were raised properly and have a genuine respect for life.
My problem with the gun ban is that many of the proponents are coming from a place of emotions and reaction rather than studying the issue and logically formulating a counter-response that actually works. Making blanket statements that state that guns = killer means that everyone who has ever handled or owned a gun is automatically a killer. Does that make sense to anyone? Let's not fight this issue using hysterics and emotional appeals. Let's use our brains to solve an issue like this. BTW - it's relatively simple to create a simple bomb from household ingredients. Will gun control advocates be banning those ingredients as well? I bet, I could kill more than 20 kids just with gasoline and locked doors. It would probably be pretty simple as well if I planned it out properly. If I, a normal law-abiding citizen who likes to help and volunteers could come up with this, what would someone who wants to hurt a person or a group of people think of? Ever thought of lacing candy with poison for Trick or treat? I believe that happened one time and my mother told me - no more trick or treating for me. The obvious problem is that we need to identify high-risk individuals who pose a threat to society and neutralize them either by forcing them into mental rehab or prisons. We need to find deterrents that really work instead of slaps on the wrist or the beloved of all mass shooters - suicide by police or by self. We might want to create counter programming because unfortunately - the US does glorify excessive violence. The white culture (yes the white culture because it is whites who run the movies, the whites who created the laws, the whites who are the majority and have the greatest effect on the culture) needs to identify what it can do to stop this. (Many minorities point out that the mass gun shooters tend to be overwhelmingly white and male. The columbines and sandy hooks and theater slaughters were not "gang violence".)
BTW - I am for a ban on military grade weapons. Ordinary citizens do not need weapons that belong on a war front. We are not soldiers and we do not have a militarized enemy coming to our homes or in our supermarkets/churches/temples, etc. I am not for a blanket all guns are evil type of ban because I think the majority of gun owners are responsible, law abiding, decent human beings and generally good US citizens. They are not criminals for owning a rifle or a handgun.
Standing next to gang members? Nice area? Lets face it, these drive by shootings are an ethnic thing. You don't see roving gangs of white people shooting it out on city streets. Oprah, Obama et.al. look that camera in the eye and tell YOUR people to obey the law. I've never heard any of them ever say this!!
Obama, while your at it look that camera in the eye and tell all these illegal aliens to GO HOME!!!
Tokester
Here we go. Start the gun debate
Right. We should all just be quiet and maybe it will go away.
@e; take away home defense and crime will multiply 100,000 times, criminals will love it they will be thrilled to know that they can rob, rape, molest, and assault without fear of being shot by their targeted victim. make everyone carry a gun then all we will have to worry about is who has the bigger gun with the most bullet's, and as a bonus murder by Hammers and things will go down.
Amazing quote at the end of the article:
Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country. You can't carry one there legally at ALL. And yet they had 514 homicides last year. Clearly passing more gun laws simply isn't the answer. And yet, the last paragraph is yet one more dig at those who legally own guns... Newsflash people, LEGAL gun owners are not the problem in the USA. The problem is those who don't give a sh_t what laws are in place, and they are the reason why law abiding citizens need to be able to protect themselves.
Obama is behind all these shootings.
he is killing all these children to get his gun control past...
Chicago is just a barren wasteland of gangsters shooting eachother
Of course he would disagree because to agree would exhibit a sense of logic and rational thought. Rather, he would prefer to continue with Chicago's draconian anti-gun laws and wonder why nothing ever changes.
Thus far in this new year, there have been more than 40 homicides on the streets of Chicago with more bodies in the morgues yet to be counted as homicides, and January still has a couple of days to go..
I have yet to see a gun , run down and ally or drive a car, and it is funny that the number of killers using firearms has gone up since Obama took office. why is it that most of the killings are in or near large cities? cities run by Dem. mayors for and that have lager numbers of Dem. Voters ? seems a little odd doesn't it?
It's not Gun control....It's Violence Control.
Seems to me that everyone would want a way to track these weapons that are being used in these killings & violent crimes.
I don't understand why pro gun people don't want weapons in a national data base and be required by law to report a weapon that has been stolen or sold to another person (except unfounded for fear of the government).
These weapons just don't fall from the sky....Where are they coming from? Your homes? By some scum that thinks they can buy a dozen weapons at a gun show and sell them on the street? Where are they coming from?
Think about it.
If some sort of compromise is not come to on this debate, You if your gun falls into the hands of someone that commits a crime may be held liable for not keeping your weapon safe by taking the measures to do so (ie Trigger locks & Gun safes), is that what you want? I'm sure that will be the next step if something is not done and we reach a stale mate. I might add that those liability laws are currently on the books of the majority of states.
You might also just find that your insurance rates take a jump to cover gun ownership if lawyers start to go after the gun owners if their gun is used in a criminal act that results in a death.
weapon ownership is not only a right...It is a responsibility. Make sure your weapon has trigger locks & you use a weapons safe. It will not keep weapons out of the hands that would use them for violence 100%, but it will slow it down.
Let's together help find a way to make it possible for the police and other agencies to do their jobs and get these weapons out of the hands of criminals.
Pete,
Lack of religion has absolutely nothing to do with America's increased violence. Comparing Switzerland to U.S. is not exactly your best approach either considering that both Switzerland and U.S. claim to be 70% Christian. Maybe let's consider that U.S. is a petty isolated country that is totally full of itself and spoiled rotten and close-minded when it comes to ACCEPTING new ideas and different ways of living (being Liberal oh my!!)
Proindividual, I would love to go to the article you copied and pasted here but you didn't give a link nor even reveal the source.
@ steve 3564331
ok it would be great to track the weapons, but what do you do in cases like this a person has a firearm and they got it legally did everything right . their house is robbed the firearm it is taken and used in a number of crimes now. now whose fault is it? or the guns come across the boarder , we cant even stop people and drugs from coming across the boarder what makes you think they can stop the guns?
you can't post a link here because MSN doesn't want to lost the ad revinue. This nonsense is just about making more money for microsoft...
I am a gun owning NRA member and I agree we need a stricter one system nationwide backround check for sane and legal members of society to obtain firearms.
If you take all the firearms from law abidding citizens who obtained thier firearms legally the only people left with firearms will be criminals and police. The criminals will have a field not having to worry about getting shot going into anyones house. Police forces are shorthanded already.
Remember most of our senate and Congress are lawyers. There is too much money in crime for them to really try and stop crime!
Actually Fubo, the US doesn't lead the world in gun violence, it isn't even in the top 10 per capita and we do have more guns than the countries with more gun deaths. Know your facts before posting BS. There are 3 South American Countries that are ahead of the US and more in other countries.
Ban Chicago! how many more lives will we let those nuts take!
let sue the gun manufacturer for every victim. Someone need to be accountable for these murders. I remeber some time ago Tylenol were being poison by some wacko and they were responsible and had to pay. So I believe that the family and victim should sue every gun and ammunition company. They make millions of dollars with their lethal weapon so let them pay some of the cash back to the victims.
To the family and friends....of this "Walking Angel" who was shot and killed..sorry for your loss.
How many of these posts above..never even mentioned the young woman, instead started the same old rhetoric, thumping their chests and crying the same failed mantra....pry from my cold etc etc fingers.....
Steve is right...VIOLENCE control...........should be the main focus, but gun control is a part of the solution also. People who are not responsible should not have them or access to them.
It is obvious cities are over run with gangs that need to be eliminated. Massive funding and strike forces need to be applied to make the cities safe. Education, job opportunities and other options other than a life of crime need to be available.
The big cities can afford millions and millions for putting up sports stadium, but when it comes to funding more cops on the street, more law enforcement agencies to process the criminals......etc.....then the coffers dry up.
Take a look at the young woman's photo...........one more time....and do your part to prevent more deaths like hers.
muglitt
There are many states that do not require by law someone to report a weapon that has been stolen. Even if it is reported how do they know how to be able to track it if it is taken into another state?
There are very little if any guns coming into our borders. Weapons are easy to screen for and have been for some time at our borders. When was the last time you heard about a weapon bust coming into the US?
The last time I heard anything about a weapon coming into the US was a military guy had been stopped at the border for trying to carry a firearm that was given to him by his grandfather in the US. He carried (drove) it into Mexico and was coming home with it from vacation. He ended up in jail in Mexico. It has since been resolved and he is back in the US....But without the gun.
We have more weapons going to Mexico...Not the reverse.
kev67
No where in any proposal is there any language suggesting that all firearms are or will be taken from law abiding citizens. That is a saber rattle to insight fear. It does not address the reality.
formersoldier-2444453
And which country do you live in?
We have a problem here...On our soil. It doesn't matter what other countries are or are not doing.
They don't have our laws and our Constitution.
starsailing
I agree 100%
Chicago is nothing short of an absolute embarrassment to the rest of the people of Illinois!!! Oh how I wish we in the down state area could rid ourselves of these losers!!!!!
@Charlie Brose why don't you ask the one survivor of Joseph Duncan's wild summer of fun in the north Idaho Panhandle and Western Montana, he broke into the Post Falls/ Coeur d' Alene home tied up the family, and one by one bludgeoned them to death except for the two youngest children, his weapon was a ball peen hammer, the difference is he had to stop and enter the home to torture terrorize and kill his targeted, how would you like to be sitting helplessly in a row of chairs waiting your turn? now in China on a couple of occasions this past year there were people who ran through crowds of people stabbing and slashing as they went killing and injuring over 20+ victims guns or no guns you are not safe in fact you will be less safe without the guns even if you don't carry but because some people do and the criminal doesn't know who that is. now take that out of the picture and the criminal is free to pick on any one at any time, people say we have the highest murder rate but that is not true we don't even make the list of the top ten people like to make this stuff up. a man that I sometimes work with was sent to the UK to work on a job outside of London about a year ago when he returned he commentated to me that I was smart to turn down the job because there were roving bands of youths all over the streets of London knifing people at random, they would just run up behind someone and knife the hell out of them then run off, do you think its safe in France, maybe if you stay clear of ATM machines, Europe is turning to violence as their liberal Socialist system collapses, and the people are all going broke and the governments cant take care of them any more, and the people that have money are moving out while they still have enough to care for themselves, the rest are screwed. run away inflation is going to take what little they have, and there will be no replacing whats being spent. you watch people are going to have to protect themselves, government won't be able to, hungry people will turn to violence, and the US will be right behind Europe, Obama wants your guns, and all the Mayors of Big cities want your guns, and all the Governors of the over populated states want your Guns, California, New york let New York Illinois and California turn in their Guns good for them, but the rest of us that don't border the oceans will keep our guns to keep you all from moving inland. and Illinois from spreading out in the heartland.Liberals are like a fungus.
Starsailing,
I usually dont agree with your political views but on this topic I agree. Well said.
Hi Steve....I had a relative who was friends with a big dealer here in Mn....I notified the drug task force , gave them name, address, apt...and included the fact that the Apt managers daughter was dealing drugs with the dealers......dealers using the girls car for delivery(duh)....and I told them , don't discuss it with the manager....go to the owner....so what do they do..No investigation...Just call up the Apt MGR...tell her...people in Apt # such and such are said to be dealing drugs.....know anything about it?...... Why no ....not in our buildings....GA DUSHHHH.........GA DUSHHHHH. etc etc....(sound of toilets flushing) and moved drugs to another apt. Real efficient......
What a terrible tragedy. That young girl was probably feeling on top of the world at a very young age. I am so sorry for the family. May she rest in peace.
Mr. President,
Would you please use some of your influence to do somethimng about crime and violence in major cities like your own. Don't pretenf that you come from a good city environment when you know damn well that Chicago sucks big time. Why haven't you stood up and and talked about the low life thugs that commit these types of horrible crimes, instead of just demonizing the weapons that are used. We know the weapons facilitate the criminals but that will happen regardless of any laws that are put in place to disarm honest law-abiding Americans.
And please use some of your infuence to speak to members of the black (I know they are not the only ones but it greater amoung them) community that think it is okay to father children and walk away. Be honest about the problem. It is a big problem. Maybe your wife could use some of her enormous infuence to speak up about it. I'm sure Michelle would have a great deal of influence over the girls and women who are being used by their so-called homey's. Face the problem directly, you have the center stage to do a lot of good in that area.
D Buck-2239568
THIS IS PARANOID THINKING. IT FALLS JUST SHORT OF A MANIFESTO OF THE FRINGE.
starsailing
Wow! Sounds like someone didn't want to do their job. People like that need to be fired. If it happens again or continues call the DEA.
@Midwesterner? Chicago losers? how can that be the highest paid teachers in the Nation, their very own extra set of Gun laws, Politicians that are so skilled at their jobs that they don't even have to be seen to win the election, they even get elected when they are in the nut house, how can you call them losers when all they do is win win win and if you are Black they don't even think about discrimination, in fact its the opposite you automatically win.
shouldnt we be modeling the US after Chicago why did we hire Obama from them if they are not all winners. he is using them as a model isn't he?
JH-479998
I would hope that you would re-edit your open letter, taking out the accusatory tone, and replacing it with reason. If not you will come off sounding like you are uniformed on his stand against violence within his home state. (which I might add he has talked about several times while addressing this issue).
Please, tell me how stricter gun control laws will help when most firearms used in crimes are not legally obtained etc. Those who would commit these crimes will use these guns whether or not they are illegal and it would be even easier for them to commit the crimes and they may even do it more often if they know they are not in danger of someone shooting back at them.
Mitzie, you can post a link here. You just need to know how. It's done all the time. I haven't seen one anywhere in this thread though. Doesn't seem like these comments actually come from anywhere other than people's heads.
@Steve Just food for thought Steve, the real problem is its happening as we speak, everything is falling apart! and I no longer give a s#it. I plan on sitting back and watching the show. I spent 40 years trying to warn people and point out problems and they don't listen they refuse to look, so I don't bother any more. its useless.
Serpenttine
I think if you read some of the posts in here you'll find some good suggestions on Violence Control.
Please stop hyperventilating.....No one is after taking legal guns out of the hands of legal owners.
There is no proof of it ....no one has stated it.... except for Wayne La Pew.
D Buck-2239568
Oh please.....I've lived long enough and we have been threw far worse than this period in our history.
Remember the Cuban Missile crisis? I do....we where the closest we have ever been to world wide destruction.
Quit yelling the sky is falling.....It isn't unless it's raining or snowing.
Hello folks, the constitution is the law of the land. If this administration wants to change the constitution there is a process to do that. Otherwise we don't have to comply with anything else. It would be unconstitutional.
WTF.......Ok everyone...Look this is an access issue......If you ban assault rifle nationally it will work......Gun control in the city isn't very effective.......So please stop with this Chicago has the strictest gun control laws crap......If they are not available to the general populace getting them will become a problem for these criminals and with smaller clips people can't unload 100 bullets a minute kind of stuff. Universal background check aren't a bad idea.......I have know idea why any law abiding citizen would have such an issue with a universal background check.....
They track how much cold medicine you buy now.......I don't see you crying about that.....
I might add that this paranoid type thinking (they are coming for my_______— fill in the blank) Is most likely what the gun man holding that 6 year old in his underground bunker after shooting the school bus driver and killing him is thinking too.
And you know what...He's right...They want him...Now.
"Girl who performed at Obama's inauguration, shot dead in Chicago."
Irony, meet definition.
Mitzy your truly nasty, ignorant, post was particularly idiotic because of your misuse of the word past. Were you absent that day, too?
We need further saturation of legal firearm ownership in America...like Switzerland.
It'll be a ban on "non-ownership" if you will. We'll call it..."The Firearm Care Mandate." You don't have to have one, you'll just have to pay a tax if you choose not to.
Yes we can! (with the proper leverage of backroom politics and out of control mass hysteria.)
SabotAndHeat
Really? Was that comment needed? What value does it have?
It shows your total lack of compassion.
How about we just go ahead and tax the stupid.....I think you would be paying a lot based on your comments.
SabotAndHeat = Corporate driven = Soulless = Republican
Why can't you guys just die on vine so we can get a nice conservative moderate party.....At least all the cons feared God in the past......Not so much any more....
No one here seems to realize that this issue could be solved quite easily, while keeping both sides happy. For those Pro-Gun Control, the solution is to regulate, tax and restrict Ammo! There is absolutely NOTHING in the 2nd amendment/Constitution that mentions anyone's right to have bullets. Seriously, it's not guns that kill people, it's the bullets that are discharge. (I have yet to read an article where the gun itself was the cause of death). With this in hand, we can maintain the 2nd amendment and allow people to have all the guns they want! Heck, if they want military-grade guns, more power to them! They can have all the shinies they want! Sure, criminals will probably make their own bullets... but criminals are already breaking the law anyway (thus why they're called criminals), but with minimal ammo available, there should be less fatalities. Those caught making illegal ammo can be prosecuted under harsher laws as well.
Just an idea.
@ Steve
Quit yelling the sky is falling.....It isn't unless it's raining or snowing.
I wonder if someone said that to the soon to be victims of the Khmer Rouge Regime back in 1975. It's mind boggling that people forget the animal inside...and they forget its in everyone.
You have Rush and Hanity screaming all day on the radio about how they are coming for their guns.....No lie.....This in not what is being proposed so please stop being a parrot of an idiot on the radio.
SabotAndHeat
It frightens me that they would allow you gun ownership.......Just say'n.....
PLEASE sign my petition to the White House to allow the US Military to consider gang affiliation an act of terrorism.
''
Liccy
Only problem is there are many that are on the fringe that pack their own bullets.....Because "when society fails" they will be ready come hell or high water. limiting sales is a good idea, but if they really want them they can get them. I think making it illegal to purchase them over the net is a great idea.
@ Steve and Peter Dean
Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. The irony is very simple.
I don't need to share my compassion over this post with you, in order state the irony. Last I checked...no prerequisite existed. Keep can keep your psuedo-moral peer pressure.
@ Peter Dean
It frightens you that they would allow me gun ownership. Because of a post on MSN?
Self righteous much?
SabotAndHeat
And just something to think about......When that apache blows away your house.....I really wonder what you are going to be do with that assault rifle.....Any trained military would wipe the floor with you.....
Because of your total and utter lack of empathy.......
get sick and tired of everything about Chicago and it's infestation of crony politicians and making this once great state who we should all be proud of and call or home looking like the laughing stock of the nation. I love this state but can't stand the Chicago drainage of it's greatness being sucked from it's life blood. I'm sick and tired of everything about Chicago and it's association with the state of Illinois......CHICAGO PLEASE LEAVE!!!!
Really, let sue the car manufacturer for every car accident. Another example of the less informed voters.
@ Peter Dean
Trained military? Ha ha. Your lack of situational awarness is astounding.
19K30, 17 years active, 3 Iraq tours. Be afraid "I have firearms" a little bit more.
P.S. Apache blows away your house? The left and its inclination towards dictatorship is astounding. Posse Comitatus anyone?
I offer a comment on irony and it ends with an idle threat involving a AH-64 blowing my house up! Wow, thats your mouth piece leftists.
(somewhere a lefty is quietly collapsing this thread)
Stricter "Gun Laws" will not stop the gangs from obtaining weapons to kill other gang members and innocent bystanders.
Get it.....Progressives (less informed on any issue) ?
@ Steve
Tax the stupid?
Wow! If you leftists actually had the stones to enforce these ideas you might be dangerous.
Ok....Still a trained military and you......You still lose....It is kinda a team effort moron....I see you didn't learn anything from your time in the service......
SabotAndHeat
What country do you live in again? Please, your BS impresses no one. 67% of NRA members and 81% of all Americans say it's time for a change. Those numbers are pretty hard to beat with rhetoric.
I might add if your still active military what you are saying is treason. If your retired...It is still treason.
Check with your post commander and see if I'm not right.
SabotAndHeat
Your antiquated party is dying and these are the death throws...(Texas will be blue in ten years)..LOLZ....Like the Gazelle getting eaten by a lion on animal planet.....You even sound desperate...
@ Peter Dean
You don't see your Apache comment as way overboard? Nice!
As far as learning something from the military. What would that be? Bow down and worship at the alter of the first Vine poster that disagrees with you?
P.S. Moron is a violation of the Newsvine rules. Moderator? (Way to keep a level head, Pete.)
@ Steve
Here's more numbers. 12,000 people are murdered using firearms a year in the U.S.. 330,000,000 people are in the U.S.. That gives you and I both a .00004% chance of being killed. 25% of that total is mixed assault rifles, shotguns and long rifles. 75% is handguns. Assault rifles are hardly the epidemic the left makes this out to be. Hard to the beat the numbers with rhetoric, Steve.
If this was about saving lives, we could drop the speed limits on the Interstates to 55 and cut drinking and driving related deaths down to 3x the murder with firearms rate.
P.S. If you think the military is in agreement with you two...youre living a fantasy.
I submit the following....
http://guardianofvalor.com/a-letter-from-the-special-forces-community-concerning-the-second-amendment/#comment-9703
SabotAndHeat
Talk to the hand cause America isn't listening to you.... Thank God.
And as for the military...They still have to abide by what they are told to do by their boss....The Commander in Chief President of The United States.
They can piss and moan all they want, just like you....It still won't make any difference if it is the will of the majority of the people, and mandated by our President. You will follow orders.
@ Peter Dean
Texas will be blue in ten years? Ha Ha.
Try looking up the last election, National Map, by Countys. If I remember, the NY Times has a nice page with all this data. http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president
Besides, your hollow scare tactics have a maximum effective range of zero meters. President Obama lost 30% of his first term votership. I'm shaking.
Can't wait for your reaction when an amnesty happens though....That will be funny.....Your house is gone in 2014' if you recover after that it will take some time.....Your party doesn't sit well with anybody but old white rich men and that is pretty much it.....You guys poll badly with posts grads and phds degreed people.....You will not survive you have lost many seats....Forgot about having less of a majority in the house with losing senate seats? But keep on saying stupid things......We see how it has helped you so much this last election.....
@ Steve
I never said once the military would act against the people. I just said they disagree...it is you who is so frightened of being impotent and helpless, that my comment on irony was meet with such vitriole.
The majority of the people don't want this. President Obams aprroval rating dropped 10 percent in January alone...and January aint over yet.
This young girl was killed in cold blood, shot in the back and all your worried about is something that's not going to happen & yourself.
It shows that you are one of those that we the general public worry about having a weapon at all.
Your posts are selfish and self centered & that is what actually is the problem with violence today...too many like you in the world.
And the Republican parties rating is less popular than head lice...what is your point?
@ Peter Dean
Your party doesn't sit well with anybody but old white rich men
Really...what color am I?
-------
30% loss in votership is pretty big help.
@ Steve
Your letters are getting bigger and bigger. Are you going to cry?
That helpless feeling doesnt come from in-action Steve...it comes from blind fear. Your afraid you can't help yourself and you want Big Brother to help you...but he can't. You had to choose to help yourself and you didnt.
So you continue to bleat and whine. Then you elevate your typing to typed screams....so someone will save you.
It's been fun Steve.
@ Steve
Comfort yourself with this map...
http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/results/president
filter by county and enjoy your farce all over again.
Seriously, I've enjoyed bringing the best you two had and putting it down with ease. So much so, that your responses eroded into "so whats your point?" Selective logic loss Steve?
Had a great time. Good night.
LOLZ.....You live in a fantasy land....Probably why you where pushed out of the military after 17 years.....lolz
Look the answer is simple. These hardcore crazy gun toting idiots won't understand until one of their friends or family members or hell even their dogs are killed senselessly. Scratch the dogs because when they get killed that's when the crazies will relent. Screw a little girl from Chicago or 26 innocents from Newtown. Apparently they lack the ability to understand it when it happens to someone else.
So those in power that have common sense and the power to change it needs to stop talking and start doing. I'm sick of seeing children getting killed no thanks to the inept responsibility of adults who are afraid to step on a few toes.
I've heard this before from you guys...."We have Ohio!"....lolz...."We have Florida!".....lolz....
Just another paranoid freak...He still didn't respond to the little 6 year old being held hostage by "one of his own thinking" in a bunker after shooting and killing a school bus driver.
This is what actions this type of paranoid thinking will get people.
So soon we will have the survivalist nut jobs along with the criminals to deal with...Oh joy.
My smpathy and prayers go out to the family and friends of this lovely young lady. And I hope the boy is not going to have any permanent physical damage. Everyone who knows and loves these two children are going to suffer emotional damage for a very, very long time.
I don't know what the answer is to all this senseless killing is. What I do know is that it is a shame that so many children and young people are dying for no good reason.
Well all I can say is, if the sheet fits wear it.
And he still wins by 5 Million votes.
Pete-1552736
Wrong, Only thous trained, Licensed and Registered are allowed a gun. Most men in Switzerland must spend time in the military and receive proper training. Every weapon is registered and can only be sold by a complete background check of the new owner and a transfer of ownership filed with the government.
Guns confiscated in Chicago, most of them are bought out of state. Arizona and other states with loose gun laws for gun shows are were they come from. There are no laws on the books to cover transporting guns across state lines for criminal intent. It's been known for years that gang members traveled to gun shows and bought all the weapons they wanted. No back ground check NO Problem.
Steve-3564331
It's people like you and me that think with a rational mind. People like Sabot are so rapped up in their own world and have no common sense. They will never listen to a rational counter to their own beliefs. Without taking one single gun from anyone ( including me ) laws can be changed to reduce gun crime. You can't buy a box of Sudafed with out ID but you can buy Cop Killer Bullets at a gun store without ID.
joethelib
Agreed. I too own a gun. These guys are on the fringes for sure...That's what scares me & they are all pumped up, socking up for a war of some kind. I think they are the first ones that need mental testing.
Good Morning all.
@ Joe The Lib
He won by 5 million votes. That's less people than live on the island of Manhattan.
Without taking one single gun from anyone ( including me ) laws can be changed to reduce gun crime.
He could.
"President Obama is asking Congress to reinstate a ban on some assault-style weapons;" - Released in Obama's 4 Congressional Proposals and 23 Executive Orders.
I'm curious how you expect him to accomplish that without "taking one single gun from anyone." Is that the rational mind you were speaking of above?
If the sheet fits. Ha ha. Paint whatever picture you need to of me to help your fragile heart sleep at night.
@ Steve
That's what scares me & they are all pumped up, socking up for a war of some kind.
Find one statement in any of my posts that even hinted at me wanting a war! I can find one in yours that promotes Fascism and one in Peter Deans that promotes dictatorship over the American people.
I offered facts...you offered conjecture.
You talk about compassion and then make lite of a hostage situation that is still unfolding with a six year old boy. Then make outrageous claims that because I disagree with you....that's the type of person I am. You are as absurd as the nuerological connections you've made to ban assault rifles, when handguns are the most deadly weapon in America.
@ Peter Dean
Probably why you where pushed out of the military after 17 years.
Wishful thinking Pete. Still making the tough sacrifices through team work even if you, Steve and JoeTheLib are incapable.
@ Steve
P.S.
I would love to hear what your definition of treason is. Because nothing I said was treasonous.
Your obviously referring to not following an order to attack American citizens as Peter Dean would love to see unfold.
You need to study Posse Comitatus. Even under Marshall Law the purpose is to provide order, not pull into Steve the Liberals front yard. Dismount and storm your house just because youre Anti-Constitution....or Peter Deans perverse vision of a Apache gunship blowing my house up (and I'm the crazy one?)
In fact, what your pro-dictatorship leaning mind fails to comprehend is that blindly following orders, when they are not lawful orders (the President is not above making un-lawful orders) it is a soldiers obligation to resist. It is not treasonous. This is the duty of every soldier to resist unlawful orders from above. A soldier will be punished for blindly executing an order and stating "I was under orders."
I'm curious Steve. Would you say my belief was treasonous if a Republican was in office and he ordered us to storm Liberal homes for Anti-American comments?
You're just spewing mindless filth because I choose not to be a cultist like yourself. You want me to submit and I won't. You continue to execute random diatribe with no credible logic behind it. Your a bandwagon rider and it shows. You have yet to prove me wrong on any point. You just continue to spew absurd accusations.
Thankfully your Facist tendancys are limited to a Newvine column.
@ Steve
Obama is the president not a king ruling over serfs.
Last time I checked military members take an oath to uphold & defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign & domestic (even if they are the ones sitting in the White House). They didn't take an oath to follow the mandates of a would be dictator who decides one day to start giving out unconstitutional orders. Most members of the military wouldn't follow orders to turn on U.S. citizens, which would include their own friends/family. LOL
You also forget that many military members are also gun owners/pro-gun outside of their military service. The same applies to police. If the government decides to ever turn on the citizens it would get ugly in this country really fast. It wouldn't just be civilians & their little rifles against the big bad military.
Even if every soldier & police officer did turn on its own citizens there are only a total of 3,751,000+ members combined (active duty military + reserve military + law enforcement). There are 85-100 million gun owners in this U.S. Take out the 3,751,000 million military/police & you still have around 81,249,000 - 96,249,000 civilian gun owners. Maybe we should try it & see how it would work out with 3.751 million military/police v. 81+ - 96+ million civilians using unconventional warfare.
A bunch of uneducated goat herders with small arms in Afghanistan have managed to tie up the U.S. for over a decade. They also sent the Russians & their high tech weapons packing back in the 80s. The north Vietnamese also did pretty well against our military considering what they were working with.
The point is you can't just make blanket statements about how someone & their puny AR-15 would be no match against Apache helicopters or FA-18 jets, tanks etc...When you factor in what I said above you can't guarantee that the military would win.
Btw, if Feinstein had her way she would ban all guns. She has been trying to do so for decades. You can go on YouTube & watch her in a 1995 interview regarding guns where she says & I quote:
(just type in - feinstein gun ban 1995 - in the search box on YouTube)
It's not about sensible gun control for her or others like her. If this old train wreck had her way she would have government goon squads kicking in doors to confiscate them, if they weren't turned in voluntarily, no doubt.
A complete ban is the ultimate goal of these gun grabbing, power hungry, egotistical, control freak, scum, who think they know how to run your life better than you do, when it comes to all topics under the sun.
It disappoints people like Feinstein that they can't do a complete gun ban all at once. So instead they try to take small steps & chip away at the 2nd Amendment until nothing will be left. But I have confidence that gun owners in this country won't let that happen.
Feinstein's current bill isn't going anywhere. She'll be lucky if they even it bring it up for a vote. LOL
Couple of typos. Should be - in the U.S. not (in this U.S.) & 3,751,000
millionI was going to stand here and point out all the flaws with the argument against gun legislation. Carefully deconstruct every stupid argument and make a perfectly rational argument for gun control which doesn't effect what gun you can own but effects who can own them by forcing gun purchasers to take the same test everyone who works in a profession that requires you to own and use a gun has to take to prove that they are mentally fit and competent enough to own a gun. If you pass the test, you get a gun handlers license. With it, you can buy any gun you darn well please. But without it, you can't purchase a gun at all. Wouldn't that be fair? Keep the guns out of the hand of dangerous mad men well still letting you perfectly law abiding rational citizens own and purchase guns to protect yourself. Simple. Right?
But you won't listen. You never do. Because you're not rational. Any rational person wouldn't be instinctively for or against gun violence. You'd take a rational look and say "We have a serious problem when someone can walk into a building and kill 30 people in under a minute and we need to find a way to stop that" Honestly. And the argument "More people are killed by hammers then assault rifles" isn't actually accurate. Those statistics are for blunt instruments. As most homicides are actually crimes of passion and not planned on, often the killer will with whatever they happen to find near them at the time to strike with. Usually that's not a gun, unless they actually go in with the intent of possibly killing said person or regularlys carry a gun on their person. And the argument that we should focus on that and ignore the very real threat to public safety at our feet is just idiocy. Listen, if some mad man walks into an elementary school and starts braining children with a hammer, or a mall, or anywhere and starts commiting mass murder with a hammer, I will be more then happy to join you in banning the sale of hammers. More then happy.
I don't know why I posted this. None of you will listen. You never do. I'm going to go watch some Daily Show and laugh at the hilarious stupidity of the world.. Later.
@ Kelman
I don't know, you were calm and rational, I think you have some valid points.
But, other points are not valid.
First, this gun violence paranoia is all smoke and mirrors. Roughly 70% of gun related murders are gang related. Check the stats of murders rates in LA over the last 20 years. At its peak (1995 time frame) 800+ gang related murders were commited. The Countrys total peak murder with firearm rate was 14,000+. Now add in 18 other major urban cities brimming with gangs. Not hard to reach 70% at all.
By the way, that peak firearm murder rate puts you at about .00005% chance of being a victim of gun violence in America. Not an epidemic by any stretch.
The end product is insuring we are "well-regulated" is completey acceptable. Banning firearms is not acceptable. My advise is read your Constitution and Bill of Rights and stop watching the Daily Show. It's opiate for the masses. Don't tune out...tune in to your rights.
Article I, Section 8: The Congress shall have the power to … raise and support Armies, but no appropriation of money to that use shall be for a longer term than two years.
This is a clear reason why a standing Army and militias (the people) are two seperate entities. The standing Army can be dissolved by Congress choosing to no longer fund it. Our Second Amendment rights cannot be dissolved. The militia, (the people) rights to bear arms shall not be infringed. There is no clause that says "or until Congess chooses to no longer support it."
It is the above article that proves that this is exactly why our individual right to bear arms was specifically to have military capable weapons! In case the standing Army is dissolved. It has nothing to do with "absence of a strong national military force in the early years of the country." The above article clearly shows the legal capability to disband the Army every two years.
Furthermore, many people try to state that the National Guard or Reserves constitute what our forefathers meant by militia. However, this is also incorrect as the Bill of Rights (which covers everyone) would not be capable of covering everyone, if the requirement was National Guard or Reserves service. Age minimums and maximums, prior retired military, service member capacity limits are exceeded (no longer taking recruits), physically unable to serve, overweight, etc, etc, all prevent individuals from service and therfore would not fall under a militia...and therefore would not fall under the 2nd Amendment.
Take care.
todd at #2.86 seems reasonable to me. I like that App suggestion. The gubmint should get on it - except when they're done, it'll be 2 to 5 years years later and cost them $50,000 each and they'll sell it for $2.00 each.
@SabotAndHeat
That really doesn't address anything I said. But it is nice and rational and I agree. I'm honestly not out to prevent any from owning a gun. My big issue is this. In the decade or so that we had an assault rifle ban, there were less mass shootings then there have been since it expired. And we've had several mass shootings in the last several months. I think that's unacceptable. I don't get up in arms everytime someone gets shot any more then when someone gets stabbed. I do think that we have had 7 mass shootings in 2012 with only about 2 months between them. That's one less mass shooting then we' had in the three years before it. 8 mass shootings in three years. 7 mass shootings in a year. If you don't believe that qualifies as at least concerning then I don't know what to say. That's what I want to stop. That's what I care about. Innocent children in a school shouldn't have to look over their shoulder. People sitting in theatre trying to enjoy a movie shouldn't have to lock and load to feel safe. Etc. These things should not happen. But when anyone ever suggests some way to stop such things.. to limit or manage them.. the reaction is this knee jerk reaction to start brandishing your gun and shouting "They're tryin' to take our guuuns." And that's just not right. My solution is rational. I think. If you are a responsible gun owner, you want gun control because it makes it less likely for psychopaths to get ahold of gun, which supports your argument we should focus on the criminals as well as you know, genuinely making you and your orginization not look like gun toting maniacs who care more about your armaments then human life. Not you in particular but in general perceptions. And if you are for gun control, then you shouldn't be concerned about gun owners if there's a license that proves they are a capable gun owner.
As for the .0005% statement. It's highly irrelevant. You stand far less chance of dying on a plane hijacked by terrorist then you do of being shot. But look at airport security. Shall we tell them to go on home because.. See how that argument loses validity pretty quickly? It's this theory that it's all or nothing. We shouldn't do anything about mass shootings, because they're rare? Or we should focus on this or that and not worrry about it because this is worse or that is worse is silly.
For the record, there is no factual record of how many gun related murders are gang related as you also have to look at unsolved murder rates in which the killer isn't found and we don't actually no if it's gang related or not but are often suspected as gang related. The truth of it is this. Both sides have an agenda. Neither side wants true crompromise. My plan is a compromise. You can still own a gun but you have to get a license to do so. This also increases revenue for the states/government while limiting the chances of guns falling into the hands of dangerous people. It seems fair. You have to have a license to hunt, to drive a car, to serve beer, to serve food, to do this and that, why not mak it so you have to have a license to own a weapon that is highly lethal? Is there anything unfair about that? Is there any rational person can object to that? Maybe. Is it perfect. No. Is it better then now? Maybe.
Here's an interesting statistic. Go look at the statistic of shootings that were commited by legally purchased firearms. You might be suprised at the result.
@ Kelman Beaumont You're providing false information and poor logic, in concern of the reason for the 2nd Amendment. You want to use national registration for gun ownership and you're speaking out the other side of your mouth that you don't want to have gun confiscation. You also say to go look at shootings committed by legally purchased firearms. You're lumping-in criminal activity with legal personal protection instances. Not hard to provide a link to prove what you're saying.
@JPJP-7493043
Nothing you said makes even the remotest bit of sense. I am not providing any false information or poor logic. The Second Amendment states rather blatantly not only the purpose of it's existence but the reason for it. There is no need to argue it. It's right there in it's various text. In fact nowhere at all do I try to give any information. Let alone any false information. Well accept for the statement that you are more likely to get shot then to die on a plane hijacked by terrorist, but that's not false information. For the record, I've always heard you have a higher chance of being struck by lightning then getting killed by a gun. But I'm not sure of the validity of that statement. I should look it up sometime but it's neither here nor there. It has nothing to do with anything. You argue poor logic but offer no demonstation of it.
As I said. There's no reason to argue against the plan of making someone past a gun handlers test in order to get a license to own a gun. I've already stated all the other things you have to pass a test or have a license to do. I see no reason why owning a deadly weapon shouldn't be one of those things. Simple. Oh I'm sure there's flaws with it. I'm sure there's people who will object to it. There's people who object to background checks.
I am also not lumping anything in with anything. In order to do that I would have had to give you some kind of information. I stated you should look up the statistics of how many shootings were commited by legal gun owners (For the record, I've never found this statistic written anywhere by a source that I can verify.) and stated you might be suprised by the result. Might because as I said, I don't have the statistic. In fact as far as I can find, there is not a single recorded statistic that states how many crimes are commited by gun owners using their legal firearm. Odd isnt it? Wouldnt that be the statistic you would want to publish? Especially if you're a gun advocate. I would want a statistic showing that legal gun owners commit barely any crime. This would definitively prove that gun regulation isn't the problem. Tha gun regulation works perfectly and further regulation wouldn't contribute anything. On the other hand, if I am a gun control advocate, I would want those statistics so I could prove that gun owners in possession of legal guns are just as bad as the criminals and further gun regulation is necessary. So isn't it odd that the one definitive statistic that we should all be looking for to prove either case is suprisingly absent? Is it that neither side wants that statistic because both sides are afraid of what it would mean for their case? That it might prove the nail in their coffin so to speak? Just a theory, mind you. In my personal experience, of the 50 or so shootings I've personally heard about in the news, the majority of them never state whether the gun was or was not legally purchased. But some have... and the number is about 15-20 of them in which the gun was legally registered to the shooter. I should mention that none of these shootings were done in self defense. But I also realize that's not an indication of anything on a global scale. That's just personal information and only means something to me as it's been my "experience" in the matter in my own exposure to shootings in my history. I want that statistic. I think everyone should want that statistic.
@Kelman Beaumont I understand that it doesn't make sense to you.
No...and "standing next to gang members". That's the biggest problem in Chicago. Strict gun laws and gang members obey each and every one.
DOES ANYONE FIND THIS STORY DISTURBING??? This girl gets to meet Obama, and then gets shot in an upscale neighborhood after the visit? Something is very stinky here!
She probably saw Obama in a room with a bunch of little boys and they took her out... lol
everything about obama is disturbing.
Disturbing as it is I don't think she was picked out as the specific victim. They should start by taking a look at the ones she is with. Not that the one admit any thing!
Jonathan, you find something amusing about this childs murder?
That's just revolting.
I feel for her family and her friends who are grieving at this time.
Maybe this will bring the true misery of weapons to those in WA. This child was there just a week or so ago, and now she is dead? Was she killed by some wacked out Crazed NRA member who somehow got a license to own a gun?
Somehow I doubt this.
While tragedies like what happened in CT will occur the vast majority of the murders happen like what is shown here. Only when the locals and Feds can figure out how to get guns out of the hands of the thugs on the streets will the rest of us be safe.
God Bless you little Angel.
Yeah, Lets ban the guns, and after all of our guns are confiscated, and the gang bangers continue to use other weapons that they can make, the leftists will finally admit that all these killings were not Caused by guns.
Too late, you cant defend yourself because all the guns have been confiscated.
Since Cain killed Abel the choice of weapon has made no difference.
They should have banned donkey jaws back then right?
If this killer gets caught, he will either get off from lack of evidence, or paroled after serving two years in prison, which will allow him to kill again. This is the problem with criminals, weak laws that lets people get away with murder.
Gang colors/ gang tattoos= summary execution...they'll get the point.
this girl's killer was paid and hired by Obama.
This drama plays into his anti constitution adgenda.
Obama is killing America's children!
Obama = Idi Amin
Mitzy....We can take it that the sky in your world is another color than what the rest of us see. Seek help asap....and I don't mean get some new glasses!
When I was brought up 50's-60's , we had western and detective shows one after another. Every show had a hero or two...the plot was there was a bad guys or guys....they were foiled, and the hero saved the day with his wonder horse, wonder dog, wonder car and faithful side kick. The bad guy/criminal/killer was never made out to the person you wanted to emulate(only fictional Eddie Haskell admired them...DOH!)
Today all the movies go to such extremes to make a criminal/killer look so complex, so too cool and smart to be caught, paid so much attention to....glorifying the criminal who keeps repeating and getting away with murder and crime....that gives people on the edge of insanity or people that have a different color of sky in their world.....it gives them the idea for their miserable life to get attention ...albeit in a destructive way....that satifies whatever it was that made them starve for attention....copy cat killers etc included.....
Why watch this crap?........Simply boycott shows like that...take a stand...........Why support this distructive venue? Why buy destructive video games for kids? Send them outside with sports alternatives, hikes, etc.......Make a difference and send a message .......Violence needs corrective attention, not glorification.
I'm convinced...won't be buying any more city bonds.
I don't think the killer was a gang-banger.
The killer was an angry Gun Whacko, who has let the Gun Control nationwide debate become too personal; lost self-control, and decided to target the girl who performed last week at the Inaugural. The Gun Whacko did not have the presence-of-mind to remember that Losers Never Win.
Don't be a Loser. Don't take your frustrations out with the use of a loaded gun. Guns are for losers.
That murder cannot be a coincidence. The grabbers made a national star of sorts of that young girl, then had her assassinated to make their point. It's too convenient to be a random shooting or a mistake. The same people who exploit one tragedy after another may, in fact, be responsible for some of these tragedies to escalate their push for voiding the 2nd amendment, as well as the 1st and the 4th.
Mitzy-3967222
LOLOLOLOL.......See.......This is why I think you guys are all just freaken crazy.....LOL
Some of you people really need to seek professional help........Yes you are right..... the president assassinated a little girl so he can get all our guns......and then do what exactly? I don't think he can achieve this in the next 4 years......LOL.....Do you believe in ghosts and alien abductions as well? Let you in on a little secret the Blaire Witch Project.....wasn't real either.......lolololololol
@ Janine
LOL. She wasn't in WA (Washington state which is on the west coast in case you didn't know). The girl performed for Obama in Washington D.C. (which isn't a state & is on the east coast).
The word is whacked (with an H) not wacked.
Yeah, she was killed by an NRA member. Because all gang-banger drug dealing thugs running around randomly shooting people on the streets in Chicago join the NRA & pay their annual dues. Did you know they also go to gun stores & go through the background check so they can purchase their guns legally? The damn gun shops & the NRA are ruining this country, along with all of those conservative Republican gang-banger thugs. LMAO
LiberalsRCommies
I thought your post reeked of cliche gun-clutching nonsense, but when I realized you firmly believe the first murder took place no more than what, 7,000 years ago? That's how I knew you were a man worth listening to.
Intensely conservative opinion regarding guns AND a Bible reference in the same post! How...unprecedented.
...and the beat goes on...when will these senseless killings end? Parents are NOT doing their jobs and just having babies and not taking the time to raise them! Standing next to a gang member is not an excuse to get killed, I coud be with someone who beat up someone last week and not know it and get shot dead unintentionally. These children have no fear of adults, their peers, the police or the criminal justice system. This is a problem in ALL of America not just the Ghetto's people.
Those of you making sarcastic and stupid remarks need to remember that you have children, nieces and nephews who are out there on the street too, don't think because you live in some snug upper middle class community you are immune to this type of violence. You are not.
Hopefully the next generation of parents can do a better job of raising their children so that they will not use a GUN to settle minor disputes, whatever happen to a good old fashioned fistfight?
This was in an upscale neighborhood ~ not the typical profiled locations. "Standing near gang members" - what does that mean? Unfortunately, this happened but I think these stories are thrown out there just to titillate the masses, giving very little information.
Parents cannot be everywhere with their children nor can they keep them locked indoors. Sounds like her parents are doing the right things -> good neighborhood, private school, etc. Get bullet proof vests?
I have read (somewhere) that gangs are made up of disenfranchised young people who are seeking a place where they feel they belong and are respected. They establish a tribal hierarchy and fighting over territory seems to be a huge factor in their little society of thugs. It seems that in the gun debate we should be addressing parental involvement as part of the equation. We don't need assault rifles, we need to provide better mental health services and we do need to teach our children respect for others.
My heart goes out to the family of this young woman, no one should experience the loss of a child, especially one to violence.
Good old fist fights are gone, cause majority of the people are to afraid to get there nose broken.
Lets face it, it's easier to use. So many people are cowards today, don't want to settle things with fist fights, would much rather resort to using a gun. It's not video games problem, movies, nothing, its the mentality that you can use a gun to fix problems because it takes little effort.
Your comment is spot on. I can't guarantee that because I live in a "safe, upscale neighborhood", that some deranged or drugged thug won't lick my door in, in the middle of the night. As long as I have the right to own a gun, including a semiautomatic rifle, a thug or group of thugs will at least have second thoughts about breaking into my house and attacking my family.
When are the neighborhoods going to start standing up for themselves, pushing the gangs out! Getting them arrested and sent to jail? Until this happens, gangs are going to run the block, so to speak. Until these neighborhoods decide to "defend" their own gangs are going to be doing the shooting. Until the neighborhoods stand up and "fight back" there will be gangs with guns and innocent children will be shot. If she was in the wrong place, she made a poor decision of whom to be in a group with; if the neighborhood felt safe, you can't keep youngsters inside afraid for their lives all day, but choices do make a difference.
My condolences to the family of this beautiful girl. I didn't watch odumbo's inauguration, so I didn't see her perform, I'm sure her family was proud of her, and hopefully still are. What a shame to lose this life.
Spot-on.
Something has fundamantally changed in the youth that has replaced the settlement of "issues",
In the 1950's and 60's, these sort of things were settlend by fistfights.
in the 70's knives became more commonly encountered in the youth altercations.
Now they think it's OK to use guns to settle scores and they obviously don't understand the ramifications of their actions.
Why? I's look at how the TV programming has changed in these eras and what is now considered to be "mainstream".
The level of violence, gun use, homicides, assaults, rapes, etc, etc, etc that you can see on any prime time channel every evening is truly shocking when compared to what I grew up with in the 1970's and 80's.
Everyone who responded I thank you for you input, if only more posts could be as constructive as I think some issues we have touched upon. I have a 13 year old son and live in a so called middle class community and he could get shot dead there as well as anywhere, the pizza shop, the playground, the pool, etc. My child is not immune and neither are yours, the problem is society and the media and that is why we all have to spend more time with our children and poke and probe and see what they are up to whether they like it or not.
My father whipped the crap out of me and my brother if we screwed up and it made me make wise decisions on the street, TRUST ME! More involvement by Parents is needed.
Arguments these days are quickly escalated to "popping a cap" on someone, just like in the movies or on TV. What used to be depicted as barroom brawls are now shown as bloody mass shootouts. Not saying that reality was as shown on TV in the old days, but the mind these days is rather numbed to violence by the media.
By the way, do you know how many gangsters were killed in the infamous Valentine Day Massacre in 1929? Answer: 7! That may not make the national news today.
You nailed it HarleMan.
Perhaps the U.S.
should pull out of
Chicago?
Body count:
In the last six
months 292 killed
(murdered) in
Chicago;
221 killed in Iraq –
AND Chicago
has one of the
strictest gun laws
in the entire US.
Does THAT tell you
anything?:
President: Barack
Hussein Obama;
Senator: Dick
Durbin;
House Representative:
Jesse Jackson Jr.; Governor: Pat Quinn;
House leader: Mike
Madigan;
Atty. Gen.: Lisa
Madigan (daughter of Mike); Mayor: Rahm Emanuel;
The leadership in
Illinois - all Democrats;
Thank you for the
combat zone in Chicago.
Of course, they're
all blaming each other.
Can't blame
Republicans; there aren't any! _________
Chicago school
system rated
one of the worst in the country...
teachers highest
paid.
State pension fund
$78 Billion in debt,
worst in country.
Cook County (
Chicago ) sales tax 10.25%
highest in country.
(Look 'em up if you
want).
This is the political
culture
that Obama comes
from
in Illinois...
And..... he is gonna
'fix' Washington politics for us ???
dirp, you're a twerp. Your formula for getting rid of the killings is flawed. To get rid of the killings, you need to get rid of the KILLERS! If you get rid of the guns, the KILLERS will still be out there!
But in Chicago, a city with some of the most strict gun laws, a city with too many already dependent on the government, a city where those living a life in the getto's believe there is no hope, I don't see the KILLERS being eliminated. You see, those KILLERS and many others from their neighborhoods have lived a life of dependence on the government. They don't know how to build a life for themselves. They don't see the road out of the getto because the government entitlements have blinded their path to freedom from the restrictive life in the getto. You eliminate the KILLERS by giving them a road map through education, instilling morals, leading them from a life of drugs and crime, encouraging them to better themselves by not relying on others for survival. That's the solution Dirp. I must admit it is a large order to fill. But I also know removing the guns will not solve a thing. That
Love it, Jack! You're dead on the money.
HarleMan said: "More involvement by Parents is needed."
Most of these shooters have but one parent, and she's normally stoned out of her mind as she sits in her over-stuffed La-Z-Boy in the front room of her Section 8 house, and stares mesmerized at her welfare check wondering for the umpteenth time how she's been able to stay on the program for the past 14 years.
But where's Ja-Wan and dem udder chillens? She don' know and she don' care. She stop buyin' food for her 7 kids a couple years ago so don't none of 'em come 'round much', which is fine by her since her dealer keep raising da price on da crack.
Wunder wat dey be doin'? Well, watever it be, it don' be no good I knows dat. Dey be just like der daddies.
Ah, what a country we have...thank you, liberals. No really, thank you.
@dirp "scum control" is needed,not gun control ,control the scumbag killers ,just toss them in the gun chipper instead
carrionconcelaed: racist POS.
um,yeah: What's racist about what he posted; it seems pretty realistic.
Another collateral damage for gun control laws???!!!!
does anybody really know the anwser? maybe giving the homeland security the power and mean to remove the gangs from the streets! any association with gangs your gone!!!! i hate to sound like an absolutist,but takem out and bury them S.O.B's they are a clear and present danger to the safty of amercian law abiding citizens. executive orders that obama! you worthless p.o.s.
Jack-1792739, it's racist because it's a generalization and over-simplification of a very complex issue in the inner cities. True, there are many, many people who live off the government and are not looking to better themselves; but there are also many on the flip side of that coin. Also, it probably seems pretty realistic to you because you're racist as well.
@Jack-179, In Obama's defense, he pretty much avoided all Illinois and especially Chicago politicians as much as he could during his time as a state and federal Senator. Illinois politics and especially Chicago politics are a cesspool, but Republicans have had their share of crooks from there as well....Hell, George Ryan just got out of prison. And trust me, people were watching Obama like a hawk even when he was in the state senate...if there was some dirty stuff going on, I'm sure it would have been exposed already.
Chicago is terrifying and I feel for the pockets of decent people here and there in these bad areas where this crime is happening. As a woman living alone in an "good" suburb of Chicago (WILMETTE, IL) many years ago, I called the police when I heard in the apartment next door to me ($900/month one-bedroom apartments - in the 90s - okay?) fighting between a couple that was so violent pictures were knocked off my walls. After that, for the next few weeks and the months, my car tires were being flattened and people were walking by my apartment door all times of night banging on the door and knocking into it, etc. I ended up having to FLEE from that apartment and this was in WILMETTE, IL with supposedly "legit" working people. To me, decent people in communities overrun by gangs are frankly now in a terrorist state as far as I'm concerned because you know what? Guys with these long criminal records have nothing to lose. Nothing short of Marshal Law is going to fix things. Also, kicking people off Section 8 if anyone residing with them is convicted of a crime. Also I believe that the cruz of the solution resides in the fact that the overwhelming majority of the perpetrators are men. Girls growing up face the same issues - poverty, bad parentiing, lack of support, love, whatever - they don't start killing people like the boys do. And rates of teenage pregnancy amongst Black gir's have gone down, not up!! (Rates for Hispanics are indeed increased however - don't blame me, blame the Census.) Anyway, thereore, if somehow the girls don't become exceedingly violent, why do the boys?
Unfortunately, the liberal biased media has a convenient way of primarily trying to tear down conservatives; therefore, they won't expose any of his relationships. And when anyone or media source that is right slanted does, they get blown out of the water as being "teabaggers". "wingnuts", etc...He's well protected and has been for some time.
Keep those morons out of it. They are an ILLEGAL organization anyway.
The liberals don't like my answer. Cordon off an area of Chicago, NYC, Boston, any large city with gang issues. Evacuate the residents. Drop the gang bangers, druggies and the like in the middle of this area. Arm them to the teeth, and let them go at it.
The one who kills the most and gets out alive wins. The government confiscates all dropped weapons from the bodies.
No innocent bystanders injured.
Hey Dirp Chicago did get rid of the guns! See how well that worked? Idiot.
Jack. What a ridiculous comment.
I know that some of you wont like what Im saying, so be it, 50% of all capital murders are committed by blacks(mostly against blacks) so why not attack the real problem and quit wasting your time with guns. Whats has happened in the black community is a crime, we have made people dependent on the government with little hope of ever getting out of the system. In the 70s 75% of black families were a two parent household, now its down to 24% thanks to liberal loons who think they know more than the people they serve. The crime rate is the highest in cities controlled by the Dems. Democrats only pretend to care about minorities for their vote yet they are the minorities worst enemy.
Guns kill people. It's not that complicated.
Consider: Only if you're a hypocritical liberal. I'm open minded, please show me clips where any of the major networks tore into Obama for his complete and utter failure during his first four years. All you've heard over the past 5 years is the liberal biased media crucifying Palin, McCain, Bush, Romney, and any other Conservative. No mention of any liberal garbage like Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Obama, and on and on. That's not too ridiculous I guess if you're a liberal.
First of all it is proven fact that gun laws do not stop this sort of thing...proven fact...not a theory but fact. Second of all Chicago was stupid in thinking it would help their gun violence. Criminal will have guns and if they are banned in one state or one country criminals do not mind breaking the law to find them in another state or another country. I mean look at our own government? Have you not heard of Fast and Furious..if not then you need to dig yourself out of the whole your living in. The only way to get rid of some of the guns is to ban world wide and come and confiscate them... Could be a civil war that would incite if this were proposed but those are also the facts...just facts.
Oh, wow, Jack. Come back at me with more ridiculousness. Liberal? Me? That's hilarious. But then you don't know me and you seem to think there are only two points of view here. It isn't that way. Too bad you don't see things clearly.
Also for everyone's information here...and world wide for that matter. They can ban guns, clips what ever they want.....there are printers that print object...yeah not just on paper anymore. You can print any object you want on one of these printers and there are currently tons of files to print your own guns, magazines, clips, and even mechanisms to make machine guns...yep it's true and the files are already out there on the internet, on peoples hard drives, send in emails all over the world....nothing can stop that it's already out there and once out there it's impossible to take back.
search YOUTUBE
You mean, too bad I don't see it your way. Sorry.
um, yeah... said: "carrionconcelaed: racist POS."
First, it's on racist if it isn't true.
Second, by calling me a POS you have violated the conduct code and deserve to be banned. (You libbies have a lot of pent-up hate and intolerance, huh?)
Last, I got the "carrion" thing (cute), but in the end your ignorance came through and you misspelled concealed . . . POS.
Jenny, I don't believe a word you said. I lived in the city of Chicago for years. North sider. Belmont & Broadway, Touhy & Clark, and Southport & Irving Park. Over 10 years - almost never witnessed anything that amounted to any sort of crime whatsoever. I say 'almost' because one time - once - I saw a man slap a woman in a car. They were yelling at each other in the parking lot of a Citgo station. I called the police. You lived in Wilmette and were driven out of your apartment because of crime? I call BS.
@jack says Consider: "Only if you're a hypocritical liberal. I'm open minded, please show me clips where any of the major networks tore into Obama for his complete and utter failure during his first four years. All you've heard over the past 5 years is the liberal biased media crucifying Palin, McCain, Bush, Romney, and any other Conservative. No mention of any liberal garbage like Pelosi, Reid, Frank, Obama, and on and on. That's not too ridiculous I guess if you're a liberal."
It's hard to tear into him for being an utter failure when, in fact, he was an utter success. He achieved virtually everything he set out to achieve. The stock market just hit the highest level since 2007. The employment rate went up and the unemployment rate came down every quarter President Obama was in office. Equal pay for equal work was signed. Health care reform was finally achieved after decades of failure. Now, if you don't like health care reform you may think its a bad thing -- but it certainly isn't a failure... What was set out as a goal in the first campaign was achieved. He was elected on those promises, and they happened. UBL (or OBL) was eliminated from the face of the earth. Gun restrictions were eased (for the first time in decades you can bring a gun into a national park!)
So tell me, how was Obama's first term an 'utter failure'?
Clarification on my last: It's NOT racist if it's true.
KALEB-OMG - the crime was domestic violence that I reported and I moved out because this couple harrassed me, a woman living alone, for reporting it. I'm not blaming anyone, the cops were nice, etc. but the couple obviously figured out I called the police on them and they were two (and sometimes three or four over there when they had guests) and they knew I was one person lving alone. I moved because I had the means to do so. So I'm not sure what you're calling BS on - that there is no domestic violence on the North Shore or there were no apartments for $900/month up there in 1992, LOL? I was living in an building near the Linden train station so you figure out if that is luxurious as the hi-rises on Green Bay Road. My point was to express the mindset of people who don't report crime or are afraid to take back their neighborhoods. I can understand b/c I witnessed somethng scary - not as terifying as somone being shot and killed - but was I expecting fighting and violence at 2 a.m. in WILMETTE? Uh no. And since that has happened, I have since thought long and carefully about how I react when I see things happen, such as unsavory people hanging around, loitering, etc. I guess I need to ARM UP with everyone else? You witnessed somebody slap somebody in a CAR and you called the cops and it was all wonderful ever after - did this couple know your address so they could come harass you? GROW A BRAIN.
Anyway, you lived at Touhy and CLARK? Belmont and BROADWAY? That's really super and swell for you. I don't recall those areas being great in the early 90s, unless you were looking for some RT or dope, LOL, but I know they're all cleaned up now - very gentrified, tourist-trappy, suburban-ish places. I guess what you are saying is that because you've never been a witness or victim to crime that you're a wonderful person? And that Hidaya, and her family who live in the city and are crime victims - including her godfather who is a COP - are, what? scumbags?
This may be Inflammatory, but...are Haxor and Mitzy a couple? If so, the should both be sterilized and unable to contribute to the gene pool. And people wonder what creates people who are "bent". Things like them. Tsk.
For crying out loud ~ what's it going to take?
Maybe Chicago should pass some strong gun laws, maybe they should make murder against the law. We all know that nut cases, crooks and bad guys follow all the laws. lol
What's it going to take? one or all of these gun tards to have someone close to them shot dead. that's what it will take. they need to be in a train wreck before they realize the train was off the track.
and that folks is the fact of the matter.
same goes for the economy and deny it all you want it will happen
sunnyjim, are you going to get rid of all your fire extigutures(S?)? You should because there are fire departments somewhere close to you
What's going to take? How about some anti-guns nuts quit denying that incidents such as this girl's death by gunfire, in a city that bans guns, is a prime example that gun bans do not work?
Forget the politics....my heart and prayers go out to the parents and family of this child.
You ask "what's it going to take" It's going to take those neighborhoods to stand up for THEIR rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Like I stated above, if they don't fight back against gangs and run their arses out of their neighborhoods .....more children will be hurt. Stick it to the gangs -- band together and send them to jail!
Taking guns away from the law abiding citizens isn't the answer. However, getting enough people to fight back is.
Repeal of the 2nd Amendment.
doug what will that fix?? answer the question or stop posting dumb statements
Doug - 3350636 - Isn't going to happen. Any Congressman or Senator who would propose such a resolution would probably lose his/her next reelection. Those in Congress love their jobs and the money they make (or take as bribes). I truly believe such action would, in fact, cause the country to have its second civil war.
haha repeal the most important amendment? look at history, the first thing every single tyranical dictator did once he gained power was disarm the public. You'll all learn soon enough.
Doug-3350636?
He's obviously been educated in the Chicago school system...
Doug -
In your dreams!
Patricia -
Chasing and defeating the gangs is possible. Not long after Katrina, gangs tried movint into my middle class neighborhood. They marked up the street signs, grafittied houses and vehicles to mark territory and started causing mayhem.
The residents in the neighborhood reported it to the police, cleaned the paint off of garages and vehicles, removing every bit of their territorial marking, and let it be known that there are gun owners in the neighborhood who would do whatever we needed to do to ensure that the gang did not move into the neighborhood.
The end result was that the gangs did not get a foothold in the neighborhood.
So, yes, getting rid of the gangs is possible. It just requires that residents of a neighborhood coordinate with police to report activity and stop it from escalating.
jimmy -
Oh, there are a few who might be stupid enough. Feinstein, Pelosi...
Truthfully, someone should open a shooting range for thugs only. Show up with an illegal weapon, a criminal background, and you get free shooting lessons. This way they get to actually kill other thugs, instead of wounding them and innocent by standers might not get shot. I'm sure Obama has this in his budget.
It's going to take our Country putting criminals into prisons and leaving them there or bringing back hangings. Most murders are committed by people who have already been to prison and we let them out into our neighborhoods. It's going to take putting God and Country back into our school curriculum. It's going to take two parents in the house hold. It's going to take drug abusers to get off of drugs and raise their children....It is already proven to not do a darn bit of good to have stricter gun laws... It's not guns...it's people, people who feel entitled, people who have grown up generation after generation on the welfare system. Taking our right to defend ourselves against tyranny or violence is the worst possible answer and will accomplish nothing good.
what's it going to take ?
Chicago should be your prime example, this is the land with the most strict gun laws in the country, get it ?
I doubt that you will, because you already have an agenda on your mind and nothing will sway that.
Janettx, you DO know that taking our right to defend ourselves and the innocent is the crux of what a Christian is all about, am I right? Also, you DO know that the Book of Revelation said that a one-world government that only seeks to kill Christians and Jews is going to happen before things are made right again, do you not, miss? Sometimes, when logic, reason, rationality, and peace fail, the only possible recourse IS violence, particularly to those people who refuse to become sensible beings.
Strong gun laws in a city that has no walls mean virtually nothing. Those gun laws are meaningless... just leave the city, buy your guns, then re-enter the city... get it?
Using Chicago as an example of how strong gun laws don't work is comparing apples and ammo, get it?
I doubt that you will because you just gotta have yer guns, which btw, nobody is taking away frpm you.
Strict gun laws are totally ineffective in a city, when the same laws do not apply beyond the city limits.
i amazed how stupid people are in this country...none of you people have a clue...
stupid people?? that would be you clownboy
A terrible tragedy. The gang banger who shot her could care less about Chicago's strict gun laws. More community police and curfews may be the answer.
This shooting was around 2:30 pm. what kind of curfew would they need? More Police might help, but I doubt it.
Stricter punishment would be an answer. We send these aholes to prison and they treat it like a right of passage. They get to sit around and play butt tickle with their gang banger buddies, get free cable TV, free medical, dental, optical, food, clothing, heat, electricity---etc... They should be running on treadmills 12 hours a day producing electricity for the rest of us. They are in prison until they repay their debt to society, at 6 cents a kilowatt hour!
i like that idea, alot.
The slaughter in Chicago will not stop until the community decides that enough people have died. When there is a shooting, does anyone tell the police what they saw, who they saw, what the talk on the street says about who did this? No, they sit on their front stoop and watch the action. If the police ask them any questions, they answer with the standard "I didn't see or hear anything". More legislation is not the answer, standing up for your neighbors and neighborhood is. Even if they are afraid of retribution from the terrorists (gang bangers), Chicago police have a confidential tip line. The people who are most affected are the ones who have the power to stop the murders of their children. And all it would take is telling the truth.
How could this be I thought guns were banned in the windy city? Of course murder is banned also.
DT, the problem is catching them. That's been the problem in Chicago for a long time. The family members/friends of the shooters know who did it, but they won't give them up. Until that happens it will be rare that they will be caught and convicted.
It offends me and I find it insulting when I constantly hear the people in the community don't care. Obviously they are concerned about retaliation and rightfully so. Telling them they should stand up for themselves and fight back is sometimes easier said than done when the shoes on the other foot. But when its your life and you have kids, not so much. Im sure people are calling confidential hot lines, but I'm sure without evidence or testimony the tips may not do much. Bottomline, more does have to be done and the community does need to get involved, it may take so many deaths unfortunately to have people willing to put their lives at risk. But definitely kids having kids, and lack of jobs which rather anyone wants to admit or not is a lot of times due to job discrimination, is the main issue, but first and foremost definitely believe it starts at home and unfortunately some kids are not getting good guidance at home, so going back to that mentality of it takes a village to raise a child, rather we feel its our responsibility or not is needed. If we don't, there will be a domino effect and even those thinking there safe in their upscale community making ignorant comments may be affected!!
Treadmill IDEA IS GREAT!
Then they would be in even better shape too! Seems like a good way to set up a 21st century running man scenario!
How about we eliminate the "P" word; PAROLE from thugs that keeps getting arrested, only to come out and hurt or kill again.
Generation after generation of feral children, each raising more children with less love and discipline, no moral compass, they revert to savagery and tribal rules. People who believe gun laws would make a difference are deluding themselves! Back in the seventies, I had on occasion to work in S. Chicago. I always carried a weapon, legal or not! (I can't recall whether it was legal under Daley I) I know it is worse now.
How sad! Condolences to family and friends. Just tragic.
Wow. Such a sad story. She was a wonderful young lady. Going to study in Paris? Wow...I'm so sad now.
Urgghh...please catch that POS and terminate it/him/her please!
Murder should be banned now to many people are getting killed.
Oh God.... How sad. I am SO sorry. Jeeze.... Instead of the "old wild west" it's more like the "old mid west"
RIP!
What's it going to take in Chicago? Martial law, a cop on every corner with a machinegun and riot gear with the will to kill. Get rid of the gangs and you get rid of the problem.
come on you bright educated answer-for-everything liberals. Whatcha gonna do?
We *could* end the majority of gang violence if we ended the War on Drugs...
"Liberals . . . whatcha gonna do?" - not just a liberal or conservative problem to solve - it's EVERYBODY'S
That's YOUR solution ? Liberals do? Hell you seem to have the answers, bet you want to arm everyone also with assault weapons to "get rid" of the gangs. Oh and the WILL TO KILL.
No, I didn't say arm everybody with assault weapons...where did I say that? I said, and I quote "a cop on every corner with a machinegun". Cop, you know the trained professional you keep talking about..
So far the liberals have put in place the laws in Chicago, it's run by liberal Demoncrats the last I heard. Are the laws working? No. What do gangs understand...more laws? No. They live and die by force....so, speak their language, they'll like the fact you're not "disrespectin' " them. That was my suggestion. Now that you've shot that down, no pun intended, where is your solution?
"Give me Liberty or give me Death." We certainly seem to have the death part down pat.
This gun debate with talks of banning things is driving people into madness. Just look at people flocking into gun stores everywhere trying to get assault weapons- some models have a year+ waiting list! It has created a polarity and with violence increasing it would be best to just drop the matter for awhile, let things simmer down, then readdress it at a later time. Point is, the more they try to control this, the less control there will be evidenced by these unconscionable shootings.
I work in a gun store. After the terrible incident with 26 young children killed, and the Odumbo's proclamations on what needed to be done, my gun store immediately sold out of M4/AR-15/AK-47's, along with all the .223, 22LR and 7.62X39 ammunition we had. Now, hardly any stores have the weapons or the ammo. We've been told by our Distributors, that we may see new ammo in about three months. We're putting a picture of Odumbo on the wall, with "Salesman of the Year" under it.
Disrespecting the President doesn't make you look smarter, Jimmy.
Enough. Respect is EARNED.
Childish nicknames reflect on the person using them, not the target.
Ban get a way cars! Seriously... when are we going to build a wall around the crappy parts of chicago and let them have at it. unless the military gets involved, the gangbangers will continue to kill each other and bystanders.
Or a white guy with a rifle....
I think Obama and his anti-gun cohorts should track down the gunman and kindly ask him to turn in his weapon.
..and the anti-idiots should ask you to turn yourself in..
Well that sounds like the best thing I've read so far. But no one can and you and I and everyone else knows why the gunman can't be tracked down. Because the NRA, gun manufacturers and die hard gun owners don't want the guns tracked. Because in order to track the guns to find the owner of the guns to be able to track down the gunman, you would have to register each gun you buy, including identifying you the owner, and if you sell it to another individual, then that sale needs to be registered including the transfer of ownership so the new owner is tied to the gun being tracked.
And yes, we all know criminals get guns illegally. How do they do it? Some will get them from someone not in the U.S. But, many, way more than most think, are bought legally by U.S. citizens and then sold privately to criminals. And if fully tracking/registering guns with owners, then if a criminal uses a gun to commit a violent crime, and the gun can be tracked back to the latest U.S. citizen registered as owning the gun, either the citizen better be able to show they reported the gun missing/stolen, or they are to be held responsible for transferring the weapon to a criminal, illegally.
But the NRA, gun manufacturers and die hard gun owners don't want anyone to know who owns what gun(s). Their belief that their right to own whatever weapon they want without it being on record that they own those weapons is much more important than protecting the lives of innocent U.S. citizens.
I stand up for and would whole heartedly vote for a law that tracked every gun sale and transfer from citizen to citizen. My right to own my guns should not interfere in the judicial system's efforts in solving violent crimes. And everyone in my family owns at least 1 gun. All were purchased legally and are treated with respect and responsibility. If our government wants me to give them my name, address, soc sec # and what type of gun(s) I have along with their serial numbers, I have no issue with that. After all, they already have my name, address, soc sec #. And if by doing so, if just one life can be saved, or if just one violent crime can be solved and the criminal brought to justice, I AM ALL FOR IT.
Stop being selfish and just thinking about your own selfish rights.
You are truly a special kind of stupid. Just sayin......
Geanie, I'm not seeing how what you propose is going to help anything. The bullets don't magically have the serial number of the gun that fired them on them. And ballistics is a joke since if you alter the barrel you alter the ballistics. The only thing that your proposal would accomplish is if they could determine the type of gun that was used, they now know who in the area owns such a gun so they can round them all up and test them individually looking for a match. Or, just in case you own something that they've subsequently decided to ban, well they can come pick that one up too. Sounds great /s.
Poland had a national gun registry just before WW2.. you know what the first thing Hitler did after invading? took the registry and confiscated every single gun. Most likely torturing alot of registered gun owers to locate the tools. Long story short, Tyranical governments love a disarmed public.
Alright, I'm asking the gun-loving public out there (yet AGAIN)....
What is YOUR plan to curb gun violence in this country? Is it to more vigorously enforce the current laws already on the books? If so, are you also ready to have your state and federal taxes increased to be able to build more prisons and to provide these criminals with free room and board, free meals, free education, etc.? I'm assuming so, from what I'm hearing on the board today. But, most of these pro-gun nuts are the same ones that say they should NEVER be made to pay more in taxes!! Ironic, ain't it?
Or, is it that the solution to gun violence is MORE gun violence? Yeah, let's do away with the cops...no need for them, when I have my trusty .38 hand cannon! Oh, and uhhh....you had better make damn sure you have several trustworthy people with their camera phones on to capture the supposed "crime" you were attempting to stop from happening with your handy weapon, or you'll end up being on the wrong side of those cold, steel bars yourself, precisely because society will be enforcing those laws already on the books!
Devil, are you a car owner? So what is your solution to stopping car accidents from happening? More people die in car accidents than by gunfire.
Are you home owner? Then what is your solution to stop house fires from happening?
Do you realize how foolish your question is?
While I can agree that a more stringent background check should be done for EVERYONE buying a gun I don't believe for a moment that this will stop street murders like this or what happened in CT either for that matter.
Janine....again with the "apples and oranges" comparison between deaths caused by automobile "accidents" and deaths caused by firearms! If you'd like to present the numbers of people killed intentionally by cars or house fires compared to people killed intentionally by gunfire, then we can talk.
And, from the apparent lack of an answer to my question posed earlier, I can only summise that you either have no answer that's better than what is being proposed by the Obama administration, or maybe you believe that doing nothing IS your answer......that the status quo is just fine in your opinion.
Your thoughts?
Devil, nobody leaves the 'accidental' deaths out of the gun death statistics, so why should they be left out of the car accident and fire death statistics? You can't have it both ways.
And the solution you want is fixing the mental health system in this country. What the Obama administration is proposing will fix nothing.
City of Thugs, Thieves, Liars and Murderers. Hussein, Rahm, Blago, Jackson, r. Wright, Ayres, Daley, etc, etc, etc...Your Reap What You Sow! More Than You Sow and Later than You Sow! In the words of the not so-reverend Wright, "Chicago's Chickens are Coming Home to Roost." Tragic? Yes. Avoidable YES! But not with the likes of these running and Ruin-ing things.
they got good chicken N waffles though in dem parts.
That was pretty racist chris.
How is that racist? We have really good country fried steaks around these parts, not racist, true.
I love chicken fried steak. I am a caucasian. I also like watermelon once in a while. My grandmother grew some good ones. Stop with all the racial BS. We dont need it, never did.
Was not racist at all. I've been to Chicago Chicken n waffles at least 6 times in the last year. It's friggen awesome just in a bad area.
All of the gun restrictions being spoken about now are not going to prevent acts like these. These are usually committed with handguns and handguns will not be taken away from the people.
These are senseless acts that are committed by senseless people. I, as a conservative, believe in assault rifle bans and magazine restrictions. If you served in the military, you can get an exemption as you have proper training on handling them.
What really needs to happen are tough and inhumane penalties for acts like this. If you are caught using a gun in a crime....you get your hands cut off to ensure you cannot hold another gun. If you kill someone with a gun and there are numerous eye-witnessess, you are put on a fast track to the electric chair.
People have no fear of committing these heinous crimes, because they know if they get caught, they get to live in jail with cable tv, hot food, etc. for 30+ years. Time to start putting fear back into them.
jr-3185054...(#16)..."These are senseless acts that are committed by senseless people. I, as a conservative, believe in assault rifle bans and magazine restrictions. If you served in the military, you can get an exemption as you have proper training on handling them."
Two things....
1.) What is your definition of an "Assault Rifle" ??
"THIS Gun Is Banned but THIS One Isn’t?
Read more: http://conservativebyte.com/2013/01/this-gun-is-banned-but-this-one-isnt/#ixzz2JTa1wHhQ"
Enlarged Photo:
http://conservativebyte.com/2013/01/this-gun-is-banned-but-this-one-isnt/16n_rifles_ipad-525x300/
2.) "If you served in the military, you can get an exemption as you have proper training on handling them."
Don't you know DHS Secretary Janet "Butch" Napolitano has placed returning Vets on the Domestic Terror Watch List ???
P.S....A Glock 17 has a Standard 17 Round magazine....
They should have tougher gun laws there. That will certainly fix the problem. Oh wait, Chicago has some of the toughest gun laws in the country. How's that working out?
obviously then (you said it), the Answer is NO GUN LAWS + More Guns.
.
Let the NRA pay for an automatic weapon for anyone who wants one (who of course is law-abiding). This will make everything better! Step up NRA, or are you LYING about what you want and what will work? Get me my gun.
Everyone in Chicago has a gun. Now what, LaPierre?
Actually, no LAW ABIDING CITIZEN has a gun on their person in Illinois...they have the toughest gun laws in the entire country. In fact, Illinois remains the only state in the nation with no provision to let private citizens carry guns in public. In other words, it's actually illegal to carry one on your person, so not a single soul (legally) could have helped to prevent this because the streets are, for lack of a better phrase, a "gun free zone".
Of course...that hasn't stopped the 500+ murders in 2012 and at least 40 so far in 2013.
Lapierre only wants LAW ABIDING people to own guns. Pretty much exposes the asinine nature of your comment. This little girl's death is the direct result of decades of liberal policies which turn a bling eye to criminals. It's just so much easier to blame everything else in the world except for the thugs that make up a big part of the voting base.
Shawn- That's untrue. Chicago Aldermen are legally allowed to carry. Something about needing them for "personal protection", or something as silly.
Rick you are a Idiot! It is not the law abiding people that are the problem!
Much like Feinstein's legislation which excludes government officials. I guess their need to protect themselves and their families is great than my need to protect mine - go figure, right?
Very sad but the fact that the city that has the strictest gun control in the US has to highest murder rate ( more deaths then the war) and in the UK and Australia where they have gun control armed crime shot up is lost on gun grabbers. Face it criminals like unarmed victims thats why gun free zones are targets.
Seems to me like Chicago needs Robocop...
I'll buy that for a dollar!!
Thank you for your cooperation.
Gun control doesn't seem to be working too well in Chicago yet Mr. Obama thinks it will work at the national level. It won't. The criminals don't care about the Illinois FOID (Firearm Owners ID), the tax on guns and bullets, or anything else in regard to gun control in Chicago and they won't care nationally or anywhere else either. The only people who do adhere to these laws or law abiding citizens and it also costs them for it too.
The Supreme court struck down Chicago's gun laws they no longer have the strict gun laws you people continue to proclaim but i know you gun nuts will not let facts get in your way
Harold, you're wrong
All the Supreme Court struck down was the total ban on legally owning handguns, they still have the FOID cards, still have the taxes, and that is the last state in the nation with no provision in law for a non police officer to carry a concealed weapon legally.
In fact, the Supreme court gave them 6 months to come up with a program to allow citizens to apply for gun permits but that is still 5 months away from any sort of presentation to the court. So, Harold, your statment isn't factual, as yet.
This is the funniest thing I've read all day. We all knew these kids were ghetto trash.
Obama only let them perform so he wouldn't appear "uppity". (which apparently if you're a successful black is the worst possible sin).
Funniest thing you've read all day? Ghetto trash? Racist troll of the day award. No, make that of the minute because I'm quite confident you'll have more trolls throwing in their idiocy in a minute.
Maybe someone will shoot your Dog cause your Mom isnt worth it!! Your Dog holds more value. Or maybe your boyfriend you look Gay as a three dollar bill.
Joe-
White trash talking about "ghetto trash" is the funniest thing I have heard all day.
Joe, a child was murdered and that is the funniest thing you read all day? You must really be a miserable wretch to find humor in tragedy, God knows your heart so be careful...life is long and hopefully 10 years from now the same thing happens to you and I will remember your name and have a good laugh myself.
Obama and Rahm are the BEST thing that's happened to Texas!!! Too bad for Illinois, but there are few decent people there anymore anyway. Mostly gangs and the CTU now. And the latter is PROUD as heck at there SIXTY percent (Six - Zero) graduation rate!! The CTU's greatest benefactors ARE the gangs!!
okay now this ignorant piece of trash comments retard ass racist ass remarks in EVERY article i ever read.
JOE,
grow the f**k up you racist piece of sh** your comment is not funny why dont you go back to the ZOO where you belong.
oh and Joe Karma is a bit** i will remember your name and how gay you look cause when you end up in the news im going to bust out laughing you racist piece of Sh**
How horrible! So sorry for family and friends - sending prayers.
I hear of this - as Grassley testifies in front on Committee that there's good reason why citizens should be afraid of a POTUS who constatntly oversteps Constitution, and that we should be afraid of a tyrannical government.
Grassley is ginning up the crazies!! Does everyone forget that Obama was a Constitutional law professor???
Tyrannical government? Put your tin foil hat on Grassley.
Worse - You are ENCOURAGING extremists with weapons to strike out against their "tyrannical government". But as long as you don't get primaried from the Right - that's all that matters. Well, if anything happens to another official - like Gabby Giffords - you won't be able to wash the blood away. As Lady MacBeth said: "Out damn spot!!'
Umm, Obama was an adjunct professor who taught a class on a small portion of the constitution. He was not a "Constitutional Law Professor", let alone an expert in the Constitution. Frankly, I think he read a different version of that doocument than I have, based on some of the stuff he has said and done.
Ten again, the same can be said of anyone who has made a career of polictics - after the first shine wears off, they become more interested in maintaining their own power than in doing what is right or best for their constituents and the country.
So it has to be an "official" that is shot before "you won't be able to wash the blood away"?
And this child apparently was shot with a handgun. Didn't hear about this shooting on the news this morning until about 10 mins. ago. Is this murder just not the same as a murder with an assault weapon? Or does the press just want to report on assault weapon murders. The only difference here, is that the child performed at O's inaguration. There were other murders in Chicago last night also, didn't hear anything about that now did ya? Only what meets the criteria for the democratic talking points on gun control is reported.
In the words of Hillary Clinton....."What difference does it make?"
Dragon - I like distinctions - so thanks for your note. Looked it up to be clear:
His formal title was "senior lecturer," but the University of Chicago Law School says he "served as a professor" and was "regarded as" a professor.
Explanation of use of such terms for Obama, as well as others who are considered experts in Constitutional Law, see: FactCheck.org - "Obama a Constitutional Law Professor?"
Obama is considered an expert in Constitutional law? In his first State of the Union address his Constitutional quote was actually from the Declaration of Independence and the DC Appellate Court, one of the most liberal in the Nation just ruled unanimously that his appointments to the NLRB were all Unconstitutional and voided the last year's worth of rulings. He knows less than the average 12 th grader.
I would be ashamed to think I went to any 12th grade that let YOU "graduate"...for what you know about the Law or this ruling. as usual, it's pretty complicated, and if true in an absolute sense, woudl negate that judge's OWN appointment, and those for the last several presidents as well, in many venues not just for judges. I am sure your heros such as the (loser, again) Mitt are much more versed on the Law...as he now sits on the beach in California somehow recovering from his painful loss (right). did I mention Loser?
President Stinky (bo) studied the US Constitution with the same eye that a hacker studies a computer operating system or a thief studies a bank layout.
Stinks got into college as a foreign student even tho' He was born in Hawaii (much to the Clinton's chagrin). He's spent millions to protect anybody finding out what He really did there. Wouldn't you love to read His papers or see His grades? Apparently, Mitt Romney's grades weren't an embarassment to him, like Stinky's are.
supposedly a Constitutional lawyer. I think his credentials are very questionable since there is really NO proof of anything.
Clearly you havent ever read a history book... The first step of an overpowered government is take the guns.
Well said NewsGirl.
What nonsense to claim the 2nd amendment is to protect you from a tyrannical government!! Who decides when it's time to rebel and revolt??? Timothy McVeigh ?? Ted Kaczynski ??? any other looney you gun nutters want to listen to when it's time to rise against your tyrannical government. Frankly, anyone entertaining such notions are totally unfit to own guns in the first place !!
Ban the bloody guns !!!
FordTough...you're nuts.....Australia banned most guns and enforces strict gun contraol laws since 1996. They Australian govenment has not overpowered the populace ! You my friend ought to read some history...
take the guns, make the people you don't like enemies of the (state) and then remove them
did hitler's henchmen not murder over 6 million jews? nothing they could do, once he was in full power
hence, nipping this sh$t in the bud, BEFORE it happens.
Leo the builder why don't you pack your stuff and move to mexico. They already banned guns. Have you noticed how well it seems to be working down there????? Banning guns will not reduce crime it will multiply it!!!! that fact has been demonstrated all over the world. Pearce Morgan that idiot bashing gun ownership. 50 percent of parents in England are afraid to have there children under 10 years old play outside! 30 percent of adults do not feel safe in there own homes!!! why you ask there society must be so peaceful because they have outlawed guns. The gun is the great equalizer with out them who ever is bigger, stronger, faster can abuse you. heard of any mass shootings at a gun range? or anyplace were the probability of an armed American are high?? No did not think so.
The Ozzie's have just rounded up there guns not to long ago as well.....take a look how well it has worked for them.......really look.......i think some of ya anti gun people will either keep your blinders on or you may just change you mind about gun control...... we need to take care of our selves. Not big brother. ask any body who has came from a country were government are not meant to be challenge. we are heading there. More surveillance. Home land security the bigged government hand out there. do ya think that you info is not being look at constantly. your twitter face book email the feds don't care. they are making a profile of you and just wait. it is going to get a lot more nasty before it get any better. too many sheep in our country to stop this. the few who try are called nut jobs and branded criminals or terrorist, with a few exceptions. the exceptions get very little media attention. Right now we look like Europe 1932.... country is broke people are desperate and our appointed leaders are corrupt and always looking to secure more power.
have a good day.
leo ,my friend,
did you try looking up violent crime in Australia, you will find that (gun crime) dropped a bit
butttttttttttttttttttt violent crime, rape, home invasion, robbery, ect have doubled , and oh yeah they have murder, its just done with things other than guns. but carry on, you keep making me laugh
In all fairness, if I had to choose between eliminating all guns, or addressing the gangs in this country, my vote is to deal with the gangs.
Agree. most of the murders in Chicago are gang related with out the use of an "assault rifle". Let's not go after the real issue though.
To do that would require that "certain parties" accept that the problem is not the gun but the individual, and that requires time and money - much quicker to simply say, "guns are evil and we'll all be safe if you law abiding citizens aren't allowed to have them anymore".
(The same kind of false safety touted by making you take off your flip flops before going on an airplane.)
More like BOTH parties realizing it's the individual AND the gun AND the culture. It will take a multi-faceted approach.
It's the easier way out to ban inanimate guns than to deal with gang bangers and or the mentally ill. Chicago already has some of the strictest gun laws that don't work. The next step is to ban people from the city...............
Tad--The local laws like Chicago's will work after we--
1) limit gun show sales to curio and antique firearms,
2) adopt a uniform FEDERAL law like the laws in California or the new New York SAFE Act,
3) ban sales of ammunition by mail order or internet -- sales in-person, to license holders only.
The effect won't be immediate but ultimately the supply of illegal firearms will be cut off at the (legal) source and those illegal weapons already in circulation will become useless paperweights with no ammunition to fire.
Indeed: "Guns don't kill people--" It's the bullets!
It is time for everyone to be honest and address the problems we ALL seem to know are there.
Gangs should be treated as terrorists as they are holding each and every person hostage in this country. As terrorists, they should be hunted down by our Military, National Guard, Police, and yes, every single Tom, Dick and Harry with a registered gun, and eliminated, and screw the rights they hide behind. They are killing more of our children than AR 15s will ever do.
I too am guilty of believing after Sandy Hook that guns were a problem. I thought I wanted stricter gun control and laws. I see now where that will lead... nowhere.
But to that end I do still believe ( not that it is what should or needs be done) that it should be ILLEGAL to privately sell a gun to people outside of your IMMEDIATE Family. I do believe that any crime committed with a weapon of ANY kind should have a minimum sentence of 20 years, no parole and no good time (sentence reduction should never occur) and the closing of ANY and ALL loopholes for legal gun sales.
So if we remove the ability to buy them illegally, own them illegally, and sell them over the internet...then there will be fewer in circulation on the streets?
If that's the case we should do that with cocaine, heroin, and meth too...oh wait.
I've been saying that for SO long now...fight the war on terror within the US with the best military on the planet - the insanity could be ended so very quickly. That would aid in the crime rates, the drug trafficking, as well as a host of other secondary issues along the way.
Tell the rest of the planet, "we'll be back shortly, we've gotta 'clean house'".
Hey, Shawn [a.k.a. "Knucklehead"]
Which would you rather encounter at your local multiplex, a nut with no gun but who has drugs or a nut with no drugs but who has one or more guns?
Me, I'm for banning guns AND legalizing drugs.
While I'm not quite sure what the disrespectful name calling is about, and while it usually simply indicates someone that has more childish rants than anything else, I'll ignore it at this point.
As I've read stories of heroin mothers in this country that have sold (or "rented") their infant children as sex toys so they could get more drugs, I'd personally like to see them removed, but that doesn't doesn't negate the fact that saying something is "illegal" does NOT remove it from circulation on the streets.
All those things you say you'd like done are all currently in existence for fully automatic machine guns, yet they somehow make their way into the hands of those that want them in the US. So how will applying those same regulations do anything to curb a behavior that is bent on breaking any and all laws that are needed to satiate their desire to hurt, maim, or kill?
Lest we forget that Columbine happened while we had an assault weapons ban, and that regarding the "high capacity magazine" argument, Eric Harris simply brought thirteen 10-round magazines with him, firing 96 rounds before killing himself. Too, in the Virginia Tech shooting in 2007, Seung-Hui Cho carried nineteen ten- and fifteen-round magazines in his backpack. He used 17 of the magazines and fired approximately 170 rounds—or ten rounds per magazine—from two handguns before killing himself.
We have to go beyond the basic "tool" and invest the time to determine the real problem - that's my point.
And by the way...in the US in 2010:
and in 2011:
Source: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/lcod.htm
But nobody wants to admit where the gangs are coming from.
Those people "Doing the jobs Americans won't do"
Stinky-O wants to give them all a free pass.
My this is getting out of control! This should not be the NORM!!!!! We need some kind of GUN CONTROL this is getting ridiculous!!!!! My prayers are with this beautiful souls' family..
O, pardon me. I was wrong. You're not stupid. You're living in a fantasy world, Mr. Shawn.
The fact is that the National Firearms Act of 1934 has been highly successful at keeping full automatic firearms out of the hands of criminals and lunatics. In all the sad litany of mass shootings in the USA not one involved the use of a fully automatic weapon.
This legislation could be the model for serious gun control if there wasn't so much money in the gun trade and satellite business.
Drug induced deaths of course includes accidental poisonings, interaction of prescription medicines and (big category) suicides. And a propos suicides, that same agency the CDC reported that 19,766 people offed themselves with firearms in 2011, some after killing wives, children or fellow students.
Maybe Harris at Columbine High was able to re-load those ten-round mags because his partner Klebold was blazing away with a 32 round magazine holding Tech-9.
Troops in the field might have a legitimate need for a pistol holding 16 rounds or 14 rounds but the ordinary cop on the beat and certainly the ordinary citizen has no good reason to carry or own one. But in Virginia, a lot of people like to play Daniel Boone, or Rambo.
Nung - ditto on what you said.
And don't forget - Columbine had 2 armed guards who were quickly overwhelmed by firepower of what those two boys' families could easily obtain.
NRA's La Pierre intentionally omits facts and intentionally takes questions wrong as evidenced today at Gun Violence hearing. He'll say anything for his lobbiest blood money.
How about this.
I really feel terrible about all of these gun deaths especially when it is children. However all lives are sacred (except those doing the killing-and not in defense or in the armed services).
The Constitution will stand, the govt is not trying to get rid of people owning guns. Never will happen.
However you need to start somewhere and I do think that there should be a mandatory background check at a federal level (not by state). There should be a waiting period. And if you have guns that are not registered you must register them. Now nothing is perfect in life. But if you own an unregistered gun and you commit a crime or even defend yourself, tough crap, you are fined and or go to jail.
Of course there still will be criminals and crazies and mentally unstables who own guns, unregistered guns, slingshots, screwdrivers, hammers, cars, knives.... that will still kill people. But jesus h you have to start somewhere and do something.
I bet if this child was your daughter you would change your tune on allowing things to continue how they are. And if you say you would not-then you are probably lying.
Yes we have a ton of gun laws. Lets make them federal and enforce them.
Newsgirl, I appreciate the kudo, but the sad fact is that the families of Columbine shooters Edward Harris and Dylan Klebold were ignorant of what their children were preparing. It is even more appalling that two sixteen year olds entirely on their own were able to assemble such an array of lethal firepower.
The path those weapons took was perfectly legal until the final transactions--when a twenty year old sold an assault carbine to a sixteen year old and the two boys, working at home, shortened the barrels and stocks of the shotguns they had managed to buy. And as the shocking figures show, getting ammunition and plenty of it was no-o-o-o problem!
They needed adult supervision? The whole State of Colorado needs adult supervision!
newAmerikan you are a pos.
Another illegal gun. Defenseless kids. Gang violence. Chicago, after Obama. What else is there to say? It's not the LEGAL guns! It's the criminals who use ILLEGAL guns in direct violation of the laws! Ban gangs first, then clean up the towns -- Chicago, Detroit, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, NYC, DC.
Notice all of those cities have had democratic mayors for the last 50 years?
Debbie -get your facts straight - you're not even close - NYC - Guilliani - 2 term Repub Mayor. then Bloomberg - 2 term Repub, 1 term Independent
newsgirl24, do you realize how much NYC improved under Guilliani, after the steady decline during the previous administrations?
You cannot ban gangs until 3 generations of no children raised on welfare occurs. Until we accept that the intact, mother, father, nuclear family is the foundation of decent society we'll continue to spin our wheels.
Add that studies of media violence affects children, study after study has verified it; and the gangs have all the guns they want and this is the result. The obama solution: take guns away from those who have committed no offense. Makes real sense, doesn't it?
Ban assault weapons and high capacity ammo magazines and make stricter gun laws for unlawful gun dealers. Anyone who's a dealing guns illegally goes away for a long long time. This will make for fewer dealers and higher prices for illegal guns that teens can't afford. Street guns are cheap and easy now. Cut off the illegal supply
NYer, When the state of NY began outlawing guns the gangs in NY would make their own. They called them ZIP guns. Made from a block of wood, curtain rod, rubber band, clothes pin, paper clip. You can make one for less than 10 bucks. How is any new law going to stop people from making their own? Arent you worried that a would be killer would decide to use a pipe bomb instead if they couldnt get a gun? Where does it stop? Why cant people like you understand that you cant stop this by outlawing inanimate objects.
You fool, New York City is emjoying IT'S LOWEST MURDER RATE SINCE STATISTICS HAVE BEEN COMPILED.
New York City has the LOWEST CRIME RATES OF ANY MAJOR CITY IN THE UNITED STATES.
But why worry? You're too poor and uneducated to be able to afford to live there.
YNBF, setting aside your hateful, elitist bigotry, no law being contemplated would've affected this killing. And you're naive and (to follow your lead) stupid to see it.; Chicago has the most stringent gun laws in the country; not NYC. No pun intended thoug, you're comparing apples and oranges.
This girl was not shot with a high capacity, "assault style" weapon, owned by a law-abiding citizen. She was murdered by a street thug with a stolen handgun, in the commission of a crime.
This hand wringing and calls for "solutions" that won't solve a damn thing, is just another example of Progressive exploitation of death. It's shameful, and deep down you know it. You just don't care.
Rather than haughtily insulting us yayhoos, you might want to say a quiet prayer for this poor girl, who's bright future was snuffed out as collateral damage in a drug war. That you instead chose to attack logical thinking shows you for what you are. Educated and rich? Perhaps. A thinking, caring human being?" Not so much.
Right because reducing guns on the street will have no affect right? One can only hope Karma shows you differently when you or one of your loved ones gets shot dead by a punk YOU protect. You seem to NOT be a thinking, caring human being.
Ken:
Liberals don't get that. The average liberal thinks that every problem facing man can be solved through government intervention or legislation. Liberals don't get it that the criminal doesn't obey the law. They can't grasp that concept.
And the fact that they can't grasp that concept is really quite ironic, because when a liberal is confronted with a law they don't wish to obey, whether it be in regards to abortion, drug use, illegal immigration, or any number of other issues, the liberals will themselves refuse to obey the law...the same liberal who expects the criminal to obey every law liberals wish to see put in place.
Just one of dozens of reasons that I hate modern day liberalism with every fiber of my being. It is an ideology based on nothing but lies, delusions, hypocrisy, fascism, corruption, greed and selfishness.
you have made up your own definition...LOLZ....This is what it actually means...Not too bright are you?
Definition of liberalism (n)
bing.com · Bing Dictionary
lib·er·al·ism
[ líbbərə lìzzəm ]
Synonyms: tolerance, broad-mindedness, open-mindedness, moderation, freethinking,
Peter: The dictionary reflects the traditional classical Jeffersonian approach to liberalism. The dictionary definition has NOTHING to do with modern day, post Wilson / FDR liberalism. The practical real world definition of modern day liberalism and the dictionary definition have NOTHING to do with each other.
In fact the definition you quoted is the opposite of the modern day liberal. Definition 1.) Liberals do not believe in tolerance. Modern day liberals are fascists to the core. I can give you literally a dozen examples off the top of my head. The only thing liberals are tolerant of is their own belief. Any other is ridiculed and reviled, just as Saul Alinsky preached in rules for radicals.
Liberals also are not compassionate. The average liberal views their compassion through the prism of the federal government. The liberal feels that if they support the government taking from one person to give to another, then they view themselves as being compassionate. The truth is that the average faith based conservative gives far more to charity than the average liberal who sits around waiting for the government to do something. Liberals are not open minded either. When a liberal tells you they are open minded, it only means that they have not given enough thought to an issue to be able to make up their minds as to what their position is. Open minded is nothing more than a buzz word term liberals use to make themselves appear as if they are thoughtful.
Definition 2.) Modern day liberals do not believe in the individual. The individual exists only to serve the state in the liberal mind. The collective is the mainstay of the modern day liberal. Individuals are only worthy if they strive to serve the collective.
Definition 3.) Modern day liberals do NOT believe in a free market. They believe in government manipulation of the market by any number of government actions, be it through bailouts, grants, stimulus or the action of the Fed monetizing the debt and pumping hundreds of billions of dollars a year into the economy in an attempt to prop it up.
So, in reality, what you have done is succinctly proven my first point of modern day liberalism. They are liars. You have just proven that by trying to paint modern day liberals as having traits that are just the opposite of what their real world behaviors reflect.
The dictionary is often far behind in adopting what the current usage of a word is. The meanings of words change over time, and often that change occurs far more quickly than the dictionary is able to keep up with. If you looked at the definition of the word "gay" in a 1960's dictionary, I doubt you will see any reference to homosexuality. If you look at the word "sick" from a dictionary of even the last few years, you will not see a definition relating to radical in design or a display of skillful talent. But yet, when the average teenager of today watches something they are impressed by, they will call it "sick", meaning they strongly approve of whatever they are viewing.
So please, spare me the dictionary as a source of definitions for political views that have no relevance to the real world usage. The modern day liberal is NOTHING they claim to be. As I said, liberals are liars. I stand by that statement and you just proved it without a doubt.
I will never claim to be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I just kicked your a$$ to the gutter with facts and real world examples.
You're an idiot that has no idea of what liberals believe.
But back to the debate. Ban all privately owned guns and stop the sale of ammunition. And if you don't like and are afraid of the U.S. government, move!
That gun control is working great there in the windy city...
Those who want to ban all privately owned guns are morons who are willing to just surrender everybody's rights to a corrupt government and corrupt law enforcement, who are just tools of the establishment anyway and are bound by their pensions and fear of harm to their families by the evil entity that has infiltrated many of the world's countries...Research how many countries' banks are privately owned and there's your trouble..!
The USA had been infiltrated and hyjacked, as had Israel and other countries but primarily Israel because now the wolf is in sheep's clothing, causing chaos throughout the world in order to usher in their new world order...
The USA is the illuminati's bitch, starting and fighting ILLEGAL wars for control of the world's oil feilds...
False Flag operations are attacks on someone, then blaming it on that someone's foes...
9/11 was one, and Mossad & the cia were the orchestrators..
Wake up, people..!
OccupyMARINES on facebook...
Law Enforcement is the 99% on facebook...
And many others...
Rick: I like the USA, think I'll stay here. You, on the other hand, might seriously at least consider moving to Cuba or Venesuela or Noth Korea? They love your type there. What's your type? The type that loves totalitarian government and thinks the Constitution should just be ignored. I'm sure you love Obama, becuase he believes the same thing. I'm sure you thought that recent ruling where Obama was charged with violation of his Constitutional authority was just an "oversight" by some right wing court. I'll give you a clue, that was just one of many incidents.
And yes, I know exactly what the conventional liberal wisdom believes. Your post, in fact, proved that I know that quite well indeed.