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Orange County Sheriff's Dept. via AP
Stanwood Fred Elkus, 75, of Lake Elsinore who was arrested Monday, Jan. 28, suspected of killing Dr. Ronald Franklin Gilbert, 52, of Huntington Beach at the medical office in Orange County on Jan. 28.
NEWPORT BEACH, Calif. -- A retired barber accused of shooting a California urologist to death in his Newport Beach exam room was charged Wednesday with murder.
Calif. DMV via AP
Ronald Franklin Gilbert, 52, of Huntington Beach, Calif., who was allegedly shot and killed by a 75-year-old retired barber, Stanwood Fred Elkus, on Jan. 28, at his office in Newport Beach, Calif.
It's unclear if Dr. Ronald Franklin Gilbert, the 52-year-old victim of Monday's shooting, was the physician who treated Stanwood Fred Elkus, 75, for prostate problems. Neighbors said Elkus was angry about his incontinence following a recent surgery.
He was jailed on $1 million bail after police say Elkus shot Gilbert multiple times Monday in the affluent coastal city in suburban Orange County.
Elkus, of Lake Elsinore, was charged with one felony count of special circumstances murder by lying in wait, NBCLosAngeles.com reported. Arraignment is scheduled for Wednesday in a Santa Ana courtroom.
If convicted, he faces a minimum sentence of life in prison without possibility of parole.
The urologist appeared to be the only target of the attack, police spokeswoman Kathy Lowe said.
Elkus was plagued by prostate troubles and was upset by a surgery that left him running to the bathroom constantly, sometimes in mid-conversation, neighbors said.
"One day we were talking about other things outside and he says, 'Oh hold it right there!' and he was rushing to his house and when he came back, he said, 'I have a problem with my prostate,'" recalled Miguel Soto, who lives across the street.
"He said, 'I had surgery and now I am worse than before the surgery.'"
Read more: Prostate cancer treatments have serious long-term side effects
Soto said Elkus never named his doctor, and Soto did not know if it was Gilbert.
A few weeks ago, Elkus said he would be away from home because he was checking into a hospital again, but when Soto saw him last week, he didn't mention his health, the neighbor said.
Another neighbor, James Lord, said Elkus mentioned Sunday that "he wasn't going to be around much longer."
"I told him, 'No Stan, you're gonna outlive me,'" Lord said.
Elkus handed the weapon to a staff member before surrendering to officers, according to the district attorney.
Detectives found additional evidence at Elkus' home in Lake Elsinore, but police declined to provide details.
Gilbert worked in general urology, sexual dysfunction and related surgical techniques, including vasectomies, bladder and prostate cancer, according to his biography on the website of the Orange Coast Urology Group, which he joined in 1993.
One of his specialties involved using a laser to vaporize prostate tissue blocking the urinary tract.
He decided to become a doctor mainly because his late father was a doctor, the biography said, adding that Gilbert had been a stockbroker and a singer in a rock band. He had worked for 20 years at Hoag Hospital and was its former urology chief.
Copyright Associated Press / NBC Los Angeles
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Wow, that is sad. Guess he was really PISSED!
Dr. should have know something was up when the first round whizzed by him.
After what probably added up to 100 rectal exams, I'd be pissed too.
Damn you Dr Jelly Finger
Before he shot the doctor, he said to him, "Urine trouble now!"
What a ding dong to shoot his weiner doctor over his new pee pee........did you expect to pee like a race horsey in 1 week? Gee Wiz.........
Welcome to the NRA world vision. Yippee-Kai-Ay, gun owners. Solve every problem with a gun.
Consider the NRA vision of America, an America where only guns can protect us from our neighbors or avenge every perceived wrong. We should all own any and every gun on the market . . . hunting or military-style . . . Open carry is better yet. . . high count clips . . . . anything goes. And our neighborhood? Armed groups of young men ride around in their pickup trucks, assault-style weapons slung from their shoulders, cruising on a Saturday night. Every person straps on a gun to go shopping. Every home, every apartment has an assault-style weapon hanging on the wall. Take your kid in one hand, and your gun in the other, and walk to school. Every classroom has a gun for protection. And, of course, continue to improve firepower to meet the demand for more lethality, more accuracy, more carnage. We demand the ability to slaughter, maim, and cripple.
And why is all of this necessary? Because the NRA has successfully promoted the sale of guns, ubiquitously. Background checks not required. We all NEED guns because we've concluded that the only way to survive their insane world-view is to protect ourselves WITH guns.
We've become the joke . . . no the insane uncle . . . of the planet. Does any of this sound familiar? Somalia, Sudan and Beirut look safe in comparison. We're the most fearful, hateful, foolish and dangerous morons on earth. Welcome to the USA, gun capital of the planet. Guns, guns, and more guns. 2nd Amendment? No, not the musket 2nd amendment from 1776, but the revised and updated amendment of Alito, Thomas, and Scalia . . . assault weapons, semi-automatic weapons of a modern war in every home. As interpreted by the equally insane right wing, we need this ready-for-sedition militia to protect us against the government. Why is this? A self-fulfilling prophecy that will only come true if you keep voting for right wing wackos. Get rid of these anti-American tea-bigots and their right wing nuts and phony libertarians like the Ron and Ran Paul fools. They only wish to destroy America.
NRA = None Remain Alive Sponsored with thanks to the NRA from recent school killers James Holmes (killed 11), Adam Lanza (killed 27), Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (killed 13).
Ugh..... really guys?!
The old man is simply a Fk'n A-hole man.
You're stereotyping "ALL" gun owners. You're in the same category as the old man.
Your just another person that shakes and trembles like a wet Chihuahua when you see a gun. Wuss....
There are lots of people who are very pissed off after prostate surgery and even biopsies. This is mostly because urologists do not make them aware that most side effects of both are likely to be permanent (with surgery/radiation/chemo/hormones worse than just a biopsy.) Many people are also becoming aware that rather than being "prostate cancer survivors" that 19 out of every 20 men who have prostate cancer have a slow-growing form that dows not require anything be done at all. These are the kinds of things that piss people off. Urologists should take this as an object lesson and do a better job of disclosure ---- or face the consequences.
Hate to wake ya up or anything but the Bo &Joe Show With the help of the liberal press has done more to promote NRA membership and gun sells then anyone.
But simple question for you anti gun people out there, if all us gun owners are as radical and lawless as you seam to think we are....Why are there any of you left?
Ugh.... really Creek Dog?
It's quite possible this old man is very likely an alzheimers patient.
If this retired barber has a long rap sheet, I'll stand corrected. If this is his first offense, then it's just flat out wrong to call him an F'in A-hole.
He's a 75-year old man, probably no different than your grandfather/uncle. I'm not saying he's innocent of his crime. I'm only saying he deserves more respect than the average criminal who commits a murder.
Because I like to lie to myself to keep my vision of humanity in tact, I'm going with "alzheimers patient". It not only explains a lot, it offers a convenient excuse for why he became unhinged.
The Ugh! was at the heartless jokes above my post. go back and read then then see how funny they really are about a successful Dr that was wiped out bu a Fk'd up old man.
Alzheimer's?! So, if he had this disease, then how did he drive there? How did he remember his appt.?
Look, if anyone has this disease, they almost need 24/7 care. He wouldn't even be able to fill out the paperwork involved during Dr's visits.
I'm going with he thought he was not going to live too much longer (as he mentioned to his neighbor) and blamed it on the Dr. And, you know the rest.
Have a good day...
"he deserves more respect than the average criminal who commits a murder"
No respect, he is as common as they get and a murderer.
All the doctors here in California are garbage, They treat their patients like cattle. All they care about is money. I know having worked in the CA Workers' Comp system for the last 20 years. When they see a patient all they see are $ signs. And the majority are the so-called "chosen ones."
Geez, it only took until post 1.5 for one of the anti-guntrolls to make an appearance. You’ve posted troll, now go back under your bridge and immerse yourself back into the muck.
No sir, I didn't mis-understand. I view your comment as more heartless than the jokes and I reacted in the same way you did.... with an "ugh, really?"
The jokes were meant to be funny and none of them were direct attacks. You issued a direct attack on a 75-year old man you know NOTHING about.
Ugh.... really?
I don't agree with you all the time, but I do enjoy reading your comments. This was the first time I was flat out shocked at something you wrote.
Harold of the Rocks
Why?!, Calling a flat out premeditated murderer an A-hole? And you're shocked?!
You wrote;
Now, that not only shocked me but others. Nobody who purposely shoots a Dr, Husband and most probably a father who went through life to be successful like his dad deserve "ANY" respect after murdering this person.
If you ask me, unfortunately you're going to get more posts that will not like that line.
Then you say;
Well lets just say this, I just met the old man in this story and the only thing I do know about him, is he's a murderer.... In this case, a direct attack "is" necessary...
Plus, I at most times, find it hard to laugh at jokes directed at a murder even though I do understand that a joke, is a joke.
You pro-gun trolls can make your stance as soon as a similar situation happens with a book, light bulb, pen, hammer, or any of the other harmless items you compare with guns.
Holy sh!t Sam,
Your nose just like, grew another 3 inches with that post. Wow, that was cool!
Do it again! Will ya!? C'mon man, do again Sam!
The new medicare billing (or not) scheme
That's one way to escape the doctor's bill
Alheimers Disease has stages. Those in the advanced stages are affected differently than those in the middle or early stages. This man may have been in the middle stages, where driving would not be a problem at all.
Not all Alzheimer's patients lose all their memory. My mother has advanced alzheimer's and her memory is in good shape. She remembers everyone's name. The way it's impacted her is the dementia. She's absolutely certain there is a family living in her uninhabitable space above her garage. You can take pictures of the area every day, and she is still convinced this family lives there, the older children steal everything in sight, and the younger children are crying out from starvation. There's no way to convince her otherwise. Meanwhile, she doesn't forget anybody's name.
Incorrect. Those with advanced alzheimer's for sure, but not all affected people require 24/7 care. As for filling out the paperwork, well, urologists tend to have an older clientele. You don't think the receptionists and secretaries at the doctor's office aren't used to assisting the elderly patients with the paperwork?
C'mon now.... alzheimer's patients are mentally impaired. Imagine if it were your father or your uncle. Don't say it can't happen. It happens all the time. Alzheimer's is a horrible, horrible disease.
And that's my whole point.... it's a horrible disease that could easily happen to your father or uncle. Until the facts are known about this man, I'm going to use his age to give him the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe for 1 second he would have done this 5 years ago when his brain was healthy enough to know the difference.
You are not being held to the same requirement.
You have a good day too!
Sam Adams
www.wsbtv.com/news/news/man-attacked-with-hammer-killed/nFBYW
This shooter definitely looks like an NRA member. Same beady eyes and incontinent behavior.
NRA solution? Arm urologists.
Harold,
I understand your points and respect your posts but not sure why you're adamantly defending this guy. I mean, the Dr worked so hard to be prosperous and who knows what else and did not deserve to be taken out like that...
On another note, it seems that 95% of all Barbers are bald. Whyisat?! LOL
Take care.....
So now he goes to prison for life "by reason of insanity" and we the taxpayer pick up the tab for his medical.
That's just freaking GREAT!!!
Maybe some of you judge-rs should withhold judgement until more facts come out.
America WILL HAVE An American Universal National HealthCARE System and Psychiatric Outreach Teams FULLY equipped with "Examine and Retain" Authority. This NutJob goes off on a tilt and Whacks his doctor because he was NOT satisfied with surgery results and, of course, uses a gun; It would be a knife if No gun was available like the NutCase in Florida whacking his wife for not cooking him a hamburger. It is NOT the instrument but The individual using it for his purposes.
You Politicos want to LockUp our guns?..OK, LOCK UP Our NutJobs FIRST. America IS INFESTED with them with the Record HIGHEST Number of Women Stalking Serial Killers In The World. No Wonder The Ladies ALWAYS have to look over their shoulders when out and alone. Thanks to Big Pharma and Corrupt "Legislators" Who caused this whole Mess by Closing down All the Mental Hospitals Across America and stuffing these DANGEROUS NutCases with their WORTHLESS "Managment Medication"...Big Money for Big Pharma, BIG TROUBLE For America. You "legislators" are slowly squeezing off the "legal" gun supply in ALL the States with Your "Allowed For Sale" List of Guns to be sold in different States. When there Are NO guns allowed, Like in prohibition, Foreign Gun Manufacturers, Who Make Excellent Weapons of Choice, are Just waiting for an American Ban, like the Foreign Distilleries did with Prohibition. People Illegally Purchased Alcohol, In Record Amounts, Just as they will purchase Guns and Ammunition in Record Amounts; What Happened??? Well, the Folly of Prohibition was Repealed; Which will happen with guns. So many law abiding and reasonably sane Americans WANT, and WILL BUY, "Personal Protection" as They know that you politicos REALLY don't give a Flea's Fart About US, OTHERWISE America would Not be in the shape She is in. Prez O had to "cut a deal" with the powerful insurance companies and people will be forced to buy insurance products whose premiums will Surely Rise like an Albatross around Americans necks with HUGE Cost. When Americans find out how much taxes are taken Out of their Paychecks, which will be EQUAL to European Taxes, EXCEPT Our Sane Allys have Universal National healthCare Systems where Their Citizens are given a HealthCard by their Governments GOOD in ALL Clinics and Hospitals!!!!! And Americans STILL have to pay HUGE amounts to the Evil and greedy rich and their corporations, Americans will want to revot..So it makes sense to confiscate ALL the guns to prevent An American Style "French Revolution". Just so You KNOW Pb is not BSing you, research: "United Healthcare ceo Takes Home $128,000,000 *C A S H* for 2008 salary". How do YOU Think they got that kind of Money???An America Universal HealthCare System NOW!!!!! Lock Up our Guns? OK, First LOCK UP OUR NUT JOBS.
But they couldn't make any money if they told them that you could just live with it.
Modern Medicine in the USA is a racket...
Because he's 75 years old and probably has alzheimers. I don't believe his mind, in it's normal state, would have ever allowed him to commit a murder.
My uncle Dominick loved his wife. They were inseparable into their upper 70s. After uncle Dominick's Alzheimer's disease got more advanced, he started to become more and more aggressive. Soon, he started beating up his wife, something he had never ever done before. They had to put him in a nursing home to protect his wife. It was devastating to my cousins.
When uncle Dominick had a healthy brain, nothing could have prompted him to hit his wife. It was the disease that clouded his judgement and caused him to be aggressive. Did he have to be "incarcerated" (nursing homes ain't much different)? Absolutely. He was a threat to his wife and himself.
Did anyone really "blame" uncle Dom? No. It was clearly the disease, not the man. Need more?
For my mother's entire life, she was repulsed by the F-bomb. If you dropped it in front her, you incurred her wrath and it didn't matter if it was me or my father. For 47 of the last 48 years, I can't recall my mother ever dropping an F-bomb.
Over the past year as her Alzheimer's advanced, she now drops the F-bomb 3, 4, 5 time a DAY. My mother? The F-bomb? You gotta be f-ing kidding me! No way! She's so paranoid and so aggressive, I genuinely have no idea who this woman is. How could this happen? It's clearly the disease, not the person.
Even though the guy in the picture looks nothing like uncle Dominick... it's who I see when I look at the pic.
Now, if this guy has 100% of his marbles and he's just an evil man with a long history of violence, then I'm 100% wrong and this guy needs to go away until he's dead. I just don't "feel" that in this case. We'll all know when more information comes out. In the meantime, he gets my benefit of the doubt.
Creek Dog
As a husband of a Manager for an airline, you would be surprised at how many family members put alzheimers patients on an airplane, and NOT notifying the airline of their condition.
Harold,
I am really sorry that you had to go through this and sorry for your Uncle and Mother but, unfortunately, I see a pattern in your family.
I can understand how you must feel. You went through a lot. Especially with family and watching the sudden mental & physical changes before your eyes. And, you lived it.
This helps me to understand where you're coming from. Bottom line is, and please do not take this as sarcasm but, you may want to get checked out since the pattern you're talking about just might be in your genes.
Hope you're all good and take care...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CD
Brutus,
Thanks for this information. I didn't realize that someone would just send somebody through the gauntlet like that and just brush their hands off as they walk away and get back in their vehicle and go about their business.
Later...
NRA! Solve any problem with guns!
OCD strikes again. ^^^^^.
I had OCD, but I got rid of it... But,, I got rid of it...BUT I got rid of it.
An easy solution to society's problems is to get rid of guns. Very simple. The government can get a list of registered gun owners and get heavily armored, heavily armed SWAT teams to go door to door to collect them. Anyone who resists gets thrown in jail.
Ban all guns. All guns need to go.
You'd like the civil war that would result, wouldn't you, BLS?
I can ALMOST understand his problem. After prostate surgery it is barely able to rise to the occasion and is half its former size. But I dont want to shoot the doctor. At 72 yrs I am happy it even works a little. lol
Yes, I blame the urologist for not advising the patient of side effects. They can be nasty people who don't pay attention to the little things that matter to patients. Of course he shouldn't have been gunned down. On the bright side, the following article came out just yesterday:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn23116-drug-reduces-enlarged-prostate-with-few-side-effects.html
Urinary incontinence wreaks havoc on people's live-no matter who has it. Explaining physiological changes and options for dealing with these changes is what nurses do well, and many doctors not well at all. BTW, 40% of menopausal/postmenopausal women have some degree of urinary incontinence. So AB-1981, watch out for grandma as well, grandma's usually not armed, but she may pee on your foot.
And I agree with Creek Dog, this geezer is a rectal orifice.
Side effects are getting less frequent, but there are risks with any surgery and especially with one that has so many nerve connections to everything around it. The prostate is in a bad place to easily get to. I'm sure the doctor mentioned a possible chance of urinary and sexual issues, but most people rationalize that the risks are low and chances are good they will not have any major issues. But, even if the doctor glossed over the details, who in this age of Google doesn't do their own confirmation before going under the knife? And that's before you sign the forms stating that you understand and accept the risks before you go under.
My dad had surgery to reduce the size of his prostate and the surgery left him incontinent. It was very, very degrading to dad that he had to start wearing a diaper. It really wore him down. He made an appointment to follow up with the surgeon, who just shrugged his shoulders and said, "I'm a plumber, not an electrician. That's the chance you take with the surgery."
God mister. He tried to fix you. Good lord.
Nope. All he did is collect checks. In the future, his style of treatment will be looked down upon in worse ways than we look at stone age medical therapy now.
AB, I'm intrigued. Clearly, you know this doctor so please describe his "style of treatment" and the facets of it that are controversial and will be deemed primitive in future years.
In the meantime, I'm lamenting the seemingly increased rate of our elderly becoming unhinged. From killing spouses over hamburgers to killing bus drivers, it's seem this week alone was chock full of stories of our elderly losing it in a major way.
My mother is 83 years old and completely whacked out of her mind via Alzheimers. The person she is today is SO different than the person she was her entire life. I think a lot of our elderly suffer in the same way... and yet, there is no logical alternative for the ones who kill except incarceration, even if it's a hospital.
I'm not suggesting for a second they be turned loose or left under the care of family. I believe their illness could easily cause them to become unhinged again. That said, I feel for the sons and daughters of these elderly murderers. They KNOW that's not their parent, rather, it's their parent under the influence of a debilitating mental disease. And now, their parent will live out the final years incarcerated, until death. They have no capability to understand why they're being incarcerated either. Very, very sad.
GM Brooke. constant return trips without anything being done tends to drive everybody nuts. this guy a bit farther then most.
trouble is its going to get worse.
AB. you are a no-nothing jerk
To clarify what @AB is asying:
19 out of 20 of every person with prostate cancer have a slow-growing type that does not require anything be done. This translates to 3 out of every 4 people who have prostate surgery. The side effects from a biopsy (ED, urinary and bowel control, serious infection) CAN BE permanent. The side effects from surgery, radiation, chemo, or hormone treatment ARE very likely permanent and include all of the above plus significant shrinkage of the privates. All the side effects are unnecessary in 3 out of every 4 men who have them. Not quite fair, is it?
And there is not a shred of evidence that all the PSAs, biolsies, surgery, radiation, chemotherapy, and hormone treatment in the world prolongs the lives of victims by a single day. This includes both deaths from all causes and deaths from prostate cancer. What extension of life comes from the surgery is taken away by the surgery and radiation and chemo and hormones.
That is why the US Preventive Services Task Force has recommended that men without multiple risk factors for prostate cancer, or past prostate cancer, not have PSAs at all. And without the PSAs, urologists would not be doing the harmful biopsies and treatments and they would not be seeing the $300,000 per patient that appears in their "revenue streams."
Chris,
Prostate surgery and prostate health may be an evolving field, but my father-in-law died from prostate cancer at 68, 10 yrs after his diagnosis, and his life was extended - though not nearly enough - by treatments by a well qualified urologist. Now my husband, age 50, has already exhibited prostate irregularities and we rely, and will continue to rely, on screening and advice from a trusted urologist.
You may think it's all about the money - but for many of us it is life and death, and I urge anyone with prostate issues to take them seriously, and find the right doctor to work with.
Thanks Chris-749391 for your kind and informative elaboration!
Cancer cannot spread without (A) an acidic environment, and (B) inflammation. Arrest these two, preferably preemptively, and you arrest the spread of cancer.
Harold of the Rocks, Alzheimer's is clearly associated with diabetes and chronic inflammation.
Many cancers, type 2 diabetes, and Alzheimer's are generally preventable diseases.
Where does the article say this man had prostate cancer? I read prostate problems, which the majority of men over 50 have. If enlarged enough, the prostate can impair bladder emptying, which does require medical intervention.
california nurse, you're right! But surgical intervention, such as the kind the urologist did, is apparently not a good thing here. He possibly could have been given the kind of drug featured last month in http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/01/23/1222355110
Chris cites one group that is anti-PSA and conveniently ignores a large faction in the medical world that totally disagree.
I had prostate surgey in 2003 do to my PSA level and the velocity. I was diagnosed STG II and I'n convinced that had I not been monitored, no biopsy performed and surgery substituted for the "watchful waiting or hormonal therapy I would not be here today.
I'm fortunate that I had an excellent urologist/surgeon and have little in the way of incontinence or sexual issues.
Lets be fair here and understand both sides of the prostate issues. It's a leading cause of death in men and it gets very little advertisement.
I'll close by saying that there is no way the doctor deserved this regardless of the individuals situation.
Trot it Ont again from yesterday NBC, bad numbers, amnesty, unemployment, gas prices through the roof due to raising the debt limit again...gotta keep that stuff under wraps ya know. And the lemming's who haven't a clue just eat this kind of diversionary article up.
A trained sniper in every doctors office ...that's the ticket
Sniper? .....Less bleating and more thinking....THAT'S the ticket.
I think he was closer then that, sniper not required.
No guns = no killings
No thought process = No intelligent posts.
yeah, not like he could have stabbed the doctor or anything like that...
Now NRA will propose every DOC must have a gun while examining the patients. GUNS and more GUNS. That is the way to go America.
Boy,this man really knew how to solve the problem. That kind of mindset is what is foremost in this country today. You're a fata$$ , or you can't go to the bathroom-KILL THE DOCTOR. This guy should be put on a fast tract to the death chamber.
As long as you're OK with the same punishment for your father or uncle when they become 75 years old (should they become unhinged).
It's very possible this guy would have NEVER committed a crime like this just 5 years ago when he had all his "marbles".
Face it, our elderly succumb to maladies like Alzheimers. He's not innocent and society is at risk from this man. But the death penalty? I'm not even sure the Iranians would do that to a 75-year old man.
You don't know for a fact that he had Alzheimer's, Bunghole of the Rox. His family should have had him put away if they knew he had Alzheimer's that bad, but we don't know that, do we? That being said, calling him an a-hole is an entirely appropriate remark, and he deserves NO respect whatsoever, NO sympathy whatsoever, and he should NOT get a pass if he does have the disease. He was pissed off at his doctor for his problems pissing. That is all anyone knows at this point. Frankly, I think it would be entirely appropriate if he were placed in a looney bin with all the other crazy coots, and his life extended and all DNR orders ignored until he dies screaming. While he pees himself all day, and nobody gives him new diapers.
Nor did she raise you with any manners. I missed the part where I personally attacked you.
I have much compassion for the elderly. You sound like you don't have compassion for anyone.
I don't know that he has alzheimers but I do know he's 75 years old. You don't know that he doesn't have alzheimers. I'm not asking you to give the guy the benefit of the doubt. I'm only explaining why I'm prepared to.
In the end, we both agree that he needs to be incarcerated and that a hospital setting is probably more appropriate than the State Penitentiary. As for the screaming and pissing... you really wish that for a 75 year old man who very well may be a victim of alzheimers? Shameful. I hope no one ever wishes that for you and I hope it never happens to you.
My mom raised me to show respect, especially when it comes to the elderly.
By The Gods, one can hardly even finish one story about a whacko with a gun "solving his problem" and another one is reported. I wonder if he had an erection when he pulled the trigger. The "Penile Extension Gun" of too many of my fellow men must be one hell of an aphrodiasic.
its called an "agenda"
Another law-abiding gun owner....ooops I mean we can almost ascertain 100% that this man was a criminal and did not have his gun legally. We all know that law abiding gun owners don't commit crimes, until of course the day they murder someone.
law abiding means not breaking the law, and murder is against the law. too bad making stupid posts isn't, or you'd be on death row...
Was he law-abiding before murdering someone? Was his gun legal? Comprehension a bit lacking in your mind? The gun nuts say only criminals murder with guns that are obtained illegally. All you have to come back with is that my post is stupid? Laughable.
Please seek professional help BD-540164, before you become the subject of one of these newsvines because of something you "solved" with your gun.
Bottom line FACT....while those of you wish to scream "gun" every time this crap happens,the simple truth of the matter remains. That gun DID NOT walk into the office and shoot anyone. It really, really is that simple folks. And more knee jerk laws will never change that simple FACT.
But if he had a knife, or baseball bat, the 52 year old urologist would most likely be alive and that 75 year old man would not be facing incarceration until death.
The knife/bat wouldn't have walked into the office to slash/club anyone either. But the urologist would have had a MUCH better chance defending himself from a 75-year old with a knife or bat instead of a gun. It really, really is that simple.
And more knee jerk posts will never change that simple FACT.
pure conjecture, not FACT. (I knew that scary word would pose problems to some.)
So stop posting them.
Harold,
Your statement is untrue, more people are killed in the world with knives and blunt objects than guns.
Shawn... that wasn't my statement. I never mentioned death rates in any other country. It wouldn't make sense to compare us to any other country unless they had the similar gun freedoms that Americans have.
I'm talking specifically about the lethality of a 75 year old man with a knife vs a 75 year old man with a gun. My point is that a 75 year old with a knife isn't NEARLY as deadly as a 75 year old with a gun.
I'm almost 52. If a 75-year old man is coming to attack me, I'm hoping he has a knife or baseball bat EVERY TIME vs a gun. He can easily kill me with 1 shot from 20, 30, 40 feet away with a gun. I have almost no chance. But with a bat or knife, now he's got to get within 20 inches of me. Now I have a realistic chance to disarm him.
The problem is, IA Scooter, that it is too easy to pick up a gun and do irrevecable, un- repairable damage in anger or frustration and the majority of us are not stable enough in a difficult situation to restrain ourselves in the heat of a moment where a gun is readily available. This doctor cannot be brought back to his loving family from the dead and all of the gun philosophy in the world cannot make that okay. It is just too easy to do horrific damage when a gun is anywhere in the vacinity of a bad situation. None of us are that strong.
Ever been? =Lake Elsinore is home to many miscreants along with a few normal citizens.
I guess the guy shot his load at the Doc Huh?
We need armed security in every doctors office!
WOW, this sounds like my fathers story of course he didn't shoot his doctor probably fantasized about it though. So many people get screwed up for life by doctors saying oh i can fix that and you won't have anymore problems only to have a nightmare from that point on.
Doctors treat their patients like numbers and dollar signs - they don't give a crap about people personally and if you have an insurance plan they can bill they will opt to go for the cut - if you don't have insurance they pretend you have nothing wrong with you and send you on your way. Maybe with a prescription for some worthless or even toxic meds. I know this doesn't apply to EVERY doctor, but it is the norm - ask anyone who has a hard to identify or chronic illness. I don't know what went on between this guy and his doctor, but it is very possible that the doctor downplayed the risk of the surgery and talked up the potential benefits. If doctors didn't do this, patients wouldn't allow themselves to be operated on. Now this guy who went to the doctor to help him get BETTER is left with a chronic problem WORSE than his initial issue that may last for the rest of his life. I know that a lot of doctors are trying to do the best they can with a high volume of patients, but aren't they supposed to take an oath to do no harm? This guy was harmed and the rest of his life impacted by a procedure that he was sold by a doctor that he trusted. And the doctor just chalked it up to a bad outcome and went on about his business while the guy has to face practically pissing himself constantly for the rest of his life??? I'm not saying it's okay to go out murdering doctors, but the healthcare system in this country is broken and nothing is going to get any better until doctors start seeing patients as people rather than procedures and potential insurance pay outs. In all likelihood, the guy who is now incontinent can't and won't be financially compensated for the fact that the quality of his life has been negatively and immeasurably impacted because he was told the risks of the procedure beforehand - nevermind the fact that he was likely told the chances of a bad outcome were miniscule and that surgery was his best option. IMO, we need to start holding medical doctors to the same standard as other service providers - if they do something and it doesn't work, they don't get paid or they have to take addition steps to correct the problem before they get paid. Maybe then they would think twice about promoting potentially dangerous/ineffective procedures in order to collect from insurance companies...
The majority of people are responsible for their own ailments due to their poor and unhealthy lifestyles. We have all been told that the three major food groups in the US, Salt, sugar and fat are unhealthy for us but most choose to ignore the warnings. So if you keep on eating bacon and eggs for breakfast and fast foods frequently, you have only yourself to blame. People just don't like to take responsibility for their own actions and frequently look elsewhere to place blame. This refers to not only health issues but emotional issues as well. Life most often is a choice.
It's apparently a choice for everyone but Uvie, who was actually born a judgmental bunghole, and did not have to make any choice about that to this day. Just keep looking down your long, blue, hypercritical nose at everyone, and don't hesitate to express your displeasure at them, and maybe some day one of them will knock it right off your face, at which point the entire world will start laughing at you.
RE: "doctors don't give a c— _p" - - - - Dr. Rob Allison, Doctor of Internal Medicine, is kind - compassionate - informative - thorough - demonstrates a passionate commitment to his profession. I am directly participative in decision-making and choices.
General statements directed toward a profession or group of people do not contribute positively to the discussion. Let us cease generalities - clustering people - and deal with facts.
I stay away from doctors. Those people will make you sick.
Dr. Gilbert treated me for a blocked kidney 11 years ago. After my two kids were born healthy I went back to him for the "big snip". I always found him to be a compassionate, funny, and competent Dr., who informed me of any and all potential side effects of any tests and procedures.
What an unfortunate situation, my sympathy goes out to his wife and children.
Doctors should be required to pack heat. All doctors should have armed guards stationed in their offices. Who needs privacy anyway. GUNS, MORE GUNS, that's the answer.
The shooter does not give a sh%t.
Once again, we've demonstrated a growing number of people in our society believe the solution to all of life's woes is violence.
Someone bumps into at a grocery store? Punch 'em out. Parents didn't love you enough as a child? Shoot them dead. Life just doesn't seem fair? Kill a bunch of 'em - gun, preferable, as it is quick & efficient.
Violence seems to be a growing way of life in the USA. Forget discussion. Forget counseling. Forget mediation. Forget turning around and walking away. Just go for it - thrust violence upon another, and make a big splash. (sarcasm intended)
OOPS! I just offended myself. Now, where did I leave my Glock and my assault rifle. Time to kill me. (LMFAO).
Is this REALLY the society we want? Dual-edged sword: 1) society's acceptance of violence to resolve matters, and 2) ready access to weapons of mass destruction. What a Pity!
We really have to start bringing back institutions and putting these severely and violent mentally ill in a safe place.
I have just the place for them - the Marianas Trench in the Pacific, all the way at the bottom.
Don't blame the urologist! He was just doing his job. Some rich, old fart didn't like the results, so he shoots his doctor? The rich, old fart is the one at fault. He is too old to give life in prison; he should be executed.
"allegedly guns down urologist"??!! I think it is pretty clear that he did it. But watch, numbnuts will probably plead "not guilty". As if.
In this country, the use of a gun is one of the most convenient ways to solve a perceived problem. Quickly and efficiently. Obtaining a gun isn't so much the problem as knowing guns are available to almost anyone who wants it badly enough. When it's used it puts a stamp of finality on the problem. The consequence is another story.
To put the "liberal" media to task for reporting every gun-related incident before the eyes of the public isn't biased news. Rather, it's honest and sobering information of which both the gun-right advocate and the concerned anti-gun citizen should know about and seriously reflect upon. Law makers on both sides of the debate have been inundated with their respective constituent's views and we all should exercise that avenue as well.
These posts do no good when we quarrel and attack each other about what our rights are when more and more of our citizens are being slaughtered by the use of guns every single day.
Upon studying the founding father's concept of this republic, and what it means to be sovereign and at the same time respect the inalienable rights of its citizens, I'm sure they would be appalled by the dysfunction we are now facing in just these two areas of self-rule. Colonialism is not the enemy. It's us.