no just stop making the bullets.....why ban anything really since according to the NRA guns don't kill people.....guns don't just jump into peeps hands right so why have laws to ban any inanimate object....I mean surely drugs aren't just jumping into peoples systems right.....no banning.....ban the banning of inanimate objects.....

Ban them, ban them all.

WE are not a safe country, period. If 30,000 deaths a year doesn't say something then I don't know what does. Repubs don't care, they love the NRA, and Bush, who should be in jail for an illegal war. Hannity would be all over Obama if he did that and you all know it.

Another school shooting.......let's do nothing........ (sarcasm)

Protect the students and teachers by having trained, armed personel (teachers or guards) at our schools so that the schools will not present such an attractive target range for lunatics!

Takenaka, your about as ignorant as they come. Good luck with banning hand guns lol.......ITS CALLED THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES SECOND AMENDMENT IDIOT. WE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. DONT LIKE IT, GET THE HELL OUT OF THE US

Protect the students and teachers by having common sense gun control.......

I've had a conceal and carry permit for over 10 years. Never once have I had to draw it from my holster. "Ban Handguns"?.......good luck getting mine. That said, I hope those injured make a full and speedy recovery :)

I support banning assault weapons, stronger background checks/penalities for more gun control, even having security guards (former US Vets would be good here - provided the GOP will pay for it:)), but banning handguns? No way.

Tom - Plymouth-3672298

The NRA should step up an accept partial responsiblity (as should all gun owners) for a serious problem in this country. If they would do that instead of using this a way to INCREASE their membership, increase sales for gun owners, and buy more republicans in Congress, they would be a much better organization. but oh no, let's scare americans into think the 2nd amendment is going to be taken away.

Darrell Scott said it best "

"Men and women are three-part beings. We all consist of body, mind, and spirit. When we refuse to acknowledge a third part of our make-up, we create a void that allows evil, prejudice, and hatred to rush in and reek havoc. Spiritual presences were present within our educational systems for most of our nation's history. Many of our major colleges began as theological seminaries. This is a historical fact. What has happened to us as a nation? We have refused to honor God, and in so doing, we open the doors to hatred and violence. And when something as terrible as Columbine's tragedy occurs -- politicians immediately ! look for a scapegoat such as the NRA. They immediately seek to pass more restrictive laws that contribute to erode away our personal and private liberties. We do not need more restr ictive laws. "Eric and Dylan would not have been stopped by metal detectors. No amount of gun laws can stop someone who spends months planning this type of massacre. The real villain lies within our own hearts. "

How about cracking down on gang members who illegally- I might ad have guns.

Facts that will come out in this will be--

The shooter will be a thug in training gang member or wanna be

The gun will be illegally obtained and no gun control would matter

The shooter will have a extensive crim history

The politician will use this to talk about gun control

OH MY!!!!!

Another case of a gun running into a school, shooting somebody, and then jumping into someones hands to deflect the blame.

Guns are so clever aren't they?

Our thoughts and prayers for a speedy recovery for the injured.

This is just another thug/gang related shooting. Nothing to do with a school. Just like the Chicago shootings.

I don't own a gun and never will. I do believe that guns are too easy to access and that makes it easy to commit a crime. I have seen arguments on both side of the gun ban/control agruments and most of it are emotional rather than rational. Banning guns is not the answer, but doing nothing is not acceptable.

Although a person who is determined to hurt another person will find a way a do it, I still contend that guns make it easier to do the deed. The cowards who uses a gun does not give the other person a fighting chance to defend themselves/survive.

@ ferndoc: they tried that at Columbine, and we all know how well that worked out, don't we?

1st ammendment.i have not shot any Amercians.I have not broken any laws.(excluding speeding tickets)I will not give up my guns.

I have spent my whole adult life in the military,ready to defend the the freedoms we enjoy as Americans now.I won't give up any of the freedoms i have earned with my 20+years of military service.

Its about Time - "serious problem in this country."

Do we really have a serious problem? If so, is it really gun related? Or is it a mental health issue? or is it that certain groups of people don't respect life?

Take a look at the numbers in the 80's or before.

Ask yourselves this...

If the fathers of this great country of ours would have known how many innocent children were going to die in these past couple of months, would they still have put forth the Second Ammendment?

I wonder....

People - "I don't own a gun and never will. I do believe that guns are too easy to access and that makes it easy to commit a crime"

But yet 99.99% don't commit a crime (with a gun). So easy to access isn't really the issue is it?

Gotta love the logic, "it's a gang shooting so it doesn't count".

Oliver - "f the fathers of this great country of ours would have known how many innocent children were going to die in these past couple of months, would they still have put forth the Second Ammendment?"

Of course they would have, they seen first hand what tyranny was. Freedom isn't free, and bad things happen and there are bad people, but giving up freedom for safety HAS NEVER WORKED IN KNOWN HISTORY OF OUR WORLD.

Guns don't kill people people kill people...stupid argument. and still another child is shot.

Guns are banned at the school... and still another child is shot.

Shooting someone is illegal.. and still two people are shot.

If guns had been banned yesterday, the person who pulled the trigger probably already had the gun and it would not have stopped the shooting today.

The guns are already out there. School shootings are a new phenomenon of our times in the same vein as flash mobs and we have to find a way to deal with them as an item separate from guns. Insisting on trying to control the guns is a certain path to failure.

Eric, It really does not count, there are lots of gang bangers and it's not like there is a shortage of them. It's called thinning the herd.........

you can't ban guns. there is that pesky thing called the constitution. as a fairly liberal person i don't see why people would want to ban assault rifles even if you could. most people are killed with handguns. and the size of the clip is silly. just reload with another clip.

seems like most rational people would want to do something that works. armed guards could be fairly effective but still won't stop all shooting. universal background checks could also be effective but still won't stop everyone. a better system to keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill would be effective but still won't stop all shootings

bottom line is you can't stop all shootings. never gonna happen. but you can do some logical things that makes it harder for those who are crazy from getting guns, makes it harder for criminals to get guns. but if a person wants to shoot someone you have little chance of stopping them. they can walk on a school bus, or just drive by a bus stop. you can't stop them all but some reasonable things could prevent some so to me they are worth doing

Ban knives, ban scissors, ban bow and arrows, ban YOUR personal forks and all eating utensils, ban nails and screws, ban anything and everything that can possibly cause bodily harm!!! But please do not put murders to death or put mentally incompentent persons away in a padded cell.....after all that would be cruel and inhumane now would it not? Burn all books especially the Bible so as not to influence little minds. Take the little children and preteens from their parents so our great government that knows all and sees all may raise them in the way they should go!!

Ridiculous, stupid , a radical you may say!! I am none of these but PEOPLE WAKE UP!! My Dad was against the Federal government sending home those little forms to fill out in the 60's........now I know why. One step at a time and ALL of us will lose our rights as an American citizen!

All gun owners should take responsibility??? WHAT

I drive I car.. should I be blamed for drunk driver deaths, I also own a knife, a baseball bat....

Focus on getting guns away from crazy people and gang members and you will prevent 99.9% of the problems

Someone please explain why we can’t condemn Muslims in general when a few crazies commit horrific acts, yet it’s perfectly alright to condemn all law-abiding gun owners when a few crazies commit horrific acts.

Steve - "My whole point is we can continue to hang onto the theory of what if's about the 2nd amendment, while we know one thing for certain that is real, there are going to be even more deaths if nothing is done. That means more deaths tomorrow and the day after......"

And I know for certain that is real, is there are going to be more deaths if SOMETHING is done.

Why? because we are humans and are imperfect!

Didn't seem to help Chicago too much. In 2011, 362 out of 436 murders were committed with guns of any type, and out of that 362 gun murders 96% were done with hand guns. Not really the stats you want to see for the city with the toughest hand gun laws; a murder rate more than 20% higher than the average rate for the country while having the very laws people claim will cut violence down elsewhere.

Out of 30,000 handgun deaths last year only 200 were classified as protection of life cases. Not much of a return on the carnage investment. We have more guns per capita than any nation. Know who is a distant second? Yemen...and we have classified them as a terrorist nation. What does that make us?

America must ban all guns. Until we do we cannot be considered a civilized nation. Guns truly serve no real purpose outside of law enforcement. Guns are killing our children and there are those who still want to cling to and worship guns over our children. Want kind of society forsakes the safety of their children for guns? An uneducated, unreasonable and twistedly sick society, I submit. Now, let's wait to see some posts of those twisted, unreasonable and unlearned folks who will say, " guns don't kill children, bullets do'. Or, how about the one ones that state, " Ban cars, they kill people". Here's another of their unwanted posts, "Take the guns from only the criminals". Fact is, everyone who has a gun is a potentail criminal, including "the law abiding", because those who want to put themselves in the lawful catagory transform themselves into a Rambo or Dirty Harry simply because they have a gun.
Yes, they could be considered law abiding until they owned a gun. Oh, and car deaths are due to "accidents" not deliberate killing acts committed with guns.

Yes, the NRA is correct, guns don't kill people, people kill people. My answer to the NRA is

QUIT SELLING GUNS TO PEOPLE! The NRA is so consumed by the second amendment, they have completely forgotten about one, of the ten commandments. "Thou shalt no kill."

There appears to be some connection, between people who carry guns and people who carry Bibles. The people, of the far right, want to tell you, you must have unwanted babies but, you have to be armed, so you can kill others and the government is responsible, for both idioms, as a rule of thumb, Conservatives want to tell you, what to do with your life, as long as it does not affect them and their lives.

As a liberal, I am anti-abortion but, I do not feel, it is my right to tell others, they have to have an unwanted child. I wish, they would consider adoption but it is not my decision, to make.

I believe, anyone can have, any kind of gun they want and any kind of gun they want. The guns cannot be sold to people and every bullet, will cost one million dollars each! And no sales, or discounts or collecting points to get a deal. One million each!

Steve-3564331

It's Violence Control.....Not Gun Control.

I'll believe that when law enforcement gets a handle on gang violence in malls and on street corners, and when they can show some interest in the violence of kids at a local pool or video hangout. When they start concentrating their "violence control" in the early stages where it can do some developmental good instead of playing up the gun angle for a media sound byte and a politician's wet dream I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Tom - Plymouth-3672298

Do we really have a serious problem? If so, is it really gun related? Or is it a mental health issue? or is it that certain groups of people don't respect life? Take a look at the numbers in the 80's or before.

Reagan supported a ban of assault weapons in the 80's. Mental health issues are certainly part of this as well. All Presidents since Reagan have had no problem cutting funding for mental health. For us to address the mental health issues, that would require the GOP to support 'social' programs, another entitlement right?

Guns are part of the problem as well. If you don't think it is, by all means, please go up to the families of the 20 murdered children in Sandy.. and tell them, we do not have a gun problem in this country. I'd love to see what they say.

markw207

I have to license my automobile every single year. Why can't gun owners? I have to show my ID to buy over the counter medications, why can't gun owners do the same thing when buying Ammo?

P.S. If a car, knife, and baseball bat are all 'weapons'. WHY do you need a gun? The next time, someone drives a car into a school and murders 20 children, we'll start talking about how a car and gun control laws are equal.

Consider where your getting your facts from:

Criminals love the NRA & LaPew's message:

Since the overhaul of the NRA in 1977 in which its leaders started to focus more on the second amendment gun violence has risen. It's the message they are sending....No on anything. Criminals say hell yes...That gives me the right to carry a firearm anywhere I want and do what I want. While sane weapons owners are left with the rap.

Prior to 1977 the NRA stand & focus was more on safety, sportsmanship, & conservation.The NRA worked with our government on several ratifications to the NFA and supported those changes.

LaPew is the last person anyone should be listening to about the second amendment, as he is not educationally qualified to address the issue. His resume contains nothing except for the NRA and a few book on the subject. I would take the word of someone that has studied Constitutional Law over LaPew any day.

The message from the NRA is spread fear, arm everyone with any weapon, which is a far cry from the original charter of why the NRA was started and remained that way until 1977.

Chris Rock believes bullets should be $10,000 each so if you want to kill someone you better really want that person dead and you better have damn good aim.

Again. A 14 year old boy was shot in the head? Both injured parties were alert? No fatalities then? Shot in the head with what then? By whom? Who is the suspect? What was the motive?

As the media continues to exacerbate the problem and feed your rage (and a political agenda), everyone says, "Guns should be banned." and "Somebody needs to do something about all this GUN violence."

Somebody else that is, everyone else is too busy and expecting the government to solve this problem.

See you all tomorrow

Since you are far more likely to be killed by a drunk driver that a gun, lets ban all high capacity beer containers. No one needs a keg or a case. In fact since most people are legally impaired after three beers I propose that all beer be sold in 2 packs with a limit of 2 beers per day plus a back ground check to make sure you haven't bought any other beer today. And nobody needs any alcoholic beverage greater than 80 proof or wine greater than 13%. In point of fact, if banning anything worked, we could simply ban all criminal activity then sit back and expect to see zero crime.

Dead is dead and it doesn't matter to the victim whether from a gun a car or a crowbar. Why doesn't MSDNC broadcast every car fatality like they are currently doing with shooting fatalities? Simple; it doesn't fit the liberal template for news. Yeah guns can kill but so van a claw hammer.

Go google 3d printable weaponry. The files are already all over the web. Banning guns will do nothing. Especially now that 3d printing has moved into metal.

No, David #1.27 - I don't remember a gun shop owner killed in his own shop. Can you cite that? I do remember a number of instances where people defended themselves.

http://townhall.com/columnists/celiabigelow/2012/10/20/12yearold_defends_herself_with_gun_proves_need_of_2nd_amendment/page/full/

http://www.gunandgame.com/featured/owner-defends-store/

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7129

All I see on the headlines is someone is shot at a school.

Who did the shooting? Was he black, white, hispanic?

Was this gang related? Drug related?

Was he raised(oops and she) by a single parent? Can be sexist now.....

Did he watch violent movies (made by hollywood) where guns are worshipped, but the liberal assed movie stars- Do as i say not as i do....but watch my movie....... now i hate guns...

Because I sure as heck know it was not just the GUN getting mad and jumping to the school to shoot someone..............

MEDIA CIRCUS FOCUSED ON GUN SHOOTING- Can you say MYOPIA? AND POLITICAL AGENDA.

Stop giving these ass clowns (reason to be famous) by 24/7 of every shooting....

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS STUFF UP!!!!!!!!!!!

"ItsAboutTime-3704531

I support banning assault weapons, stronger background checks/penalities for more gun control, even having security guards (former US Vets would be good here - provided the GOP will pay for it:)), but banning handguns? No way."

So you advocate banning assault weapons (which are likely not to be involved in this particular incident) and yet you say "NO WAY" on banning handguns. Interesting.

In 2011, there were @360 homicides committed with rifles (including assault weapons), so ban them. But in the same year there were over 6,000 homicides committed with handguns, so leave them alone.

So, after they ban assault weapons (which you are all good with) and they discover that the problem is still present (evil people committing evil acts), and decide that handguns should be banned, will you OK with turning in yours or would you like other gun owners to stand with you saying, NO?

BTW, once an AW ban is enacted, we're on the slippery slope that leads to full registry which leads to confiscation. Ask the folks in England how gun crime is there now that privately owned firearms are banned. According to the Home Office, Gun crime has seen a huge increase since the Firearm Safety Act that confiscated all privately held firearms in the UK.

My question is if the second amendment is meant to apply only to law abiding and responsible citizens, shouldn't you have to prove you are both before you are allowed to own a firearm? Or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Look at this cowardly puke in Atlanta, hiding behind children because he is afraid of the gubmint.

I have no problems with people owning firearms, but in what world should a person be entrusted with a potentially deadly weapon before proving they are responsible and capable enough to do so?

As far as all these nut cases that think that the 2nd amendment was put in place for them to fight against thier own government. There is nothing in the constitution that authorizes treason, which is what you would be commiting if you take up arms against your govenrment. In what world can a government survive for long if it sows the seeds of it own destruction.

The constitution put in place several protections against tyranny, but authorization for an armed uprising was not one of them. So stop with the bull@!$%#.

I love Ban. I use the roll-on. Works great. Gun Ban doesn't work. It's been tried. Makes the action sticky. Gun sure smells nice, though. Must not have been an "automatic" or an "assault weapon" because that would have been in the article. No, I'm not a member of the NRA, so save it. I am a United States citizen. US Constitution, Bill of Rights. Enough said. Hope the victims make a full recovery. The assailant will be punished with a time out in a crime school where he (or she?) will be rehabilitated and returned to society as a productive citizen with absolutely no record of his crime because he's a juvenile. I truly hope he is rehabilitated but i f you look at recidivism rates, the odds aren't in his favor. And if we're going to play russian roullette, I should at least be able to have a gun.

Where is all of this crap still coming from? No one (absolutely no one) is seriously proposing a ban on all guns! No one (absolutely no one) is seriously proposing that further gun control legislation will prevent all future gun massacres or all murderous shootings!

Until the above statement is fully understood and acknowledged, further debate on how to curb such occurrences is futile. Doing nothing is not an option if we are to remain a free society. The argument for even more guns and armed guards is not only foolish, it assures the demise of our free society.

We are smarter than this. We are better than this. We will and must find a workable solution to this tragic and most shameful blight on the American way of life.

@schoolyard:

Good luck getting mine? I see you're living up to your name. It's people like you we're afraid of! Let's assume civilians were banned from owning handguns. If you are told to give yours up, what would your response be? Will you shoot the person trying to take it from you? Will you run until a warrant is issued for your arrest?

80% of all serial killers are Republican, according to polls. And I see why: irrational minds can snap at any time. All this talk about finding the dangerous people, rather than the weapons, would require institutionalization for nearly the entire Republican Party, which is neither feasible nor affordable. That's why the guns have to go.

As far as having concealed and carried for 10 years, that argument is moot. It took 20 years for Adam Lanza to snap but, as you can see, there's a first time for everything. And that first time is one time too many. And the longer you continue to fight reason, the longer you put our children at risk. And you talk about a speedy recovery.

I just LOVE it when a pro-gun person says gun bans don't work, look at Chicago.

Where the F' do you think they get the guns? From people who bought them in the crazy gun right's states or they went there themselves. Why is it so easy because you can go to any gun show and buy one NO hassle.

Gun control is not the whole solution and YES will have limited impact BUT the logic that it doesn't work well is stupid. If we were to say that about driving cars then we'd get rid of the speed limit, stop lights and all the other silly laws because people still have accidents. Hey and I have to get a driver's license and register ALL my cars.

"It is really all about violence control"

Evil and violence has been, and will always be present throughout history. Our "First" act of violence is Cain & Abel and its in your Bible. You cannot "legislate" evil acts out of a country, you cannot "ban" evil criminals from committing gun violence or any other violence, you can not "Executively Order" random mass shooters into existence simply because you get rid of legally owned firearms because Evil is "Evil" and gives no thought towards the "Good's" laws. There is the short story of "Violence Control". So stripping people of their ability to sufficiently defend themselves against Evil, may it be an Oppressive Government or a strung out whack job, is and always will be the worst thing you could possibly condone. Damn Especially when its you who you are disarming...

And you don't think that all of this is about disarmament and gun confiscation?

Listen to the words that Gun Control Advocates say;

Governor Cuomo just said after their gun control bill passed that “We didn’t get what we really wanted in there but it’s a good start in that direction.” A good start? Did people lose their comprehension skills their first year out of school?

Anybody in for GC that has a high position says “It’s a start” ….????

We the American People are the last bastion of a “free” world…if you allow and condone Gun Control you are destroying the very country so many have died for to protect.

“You gun crazed loonies are paranoid and just have fantasies about a tyrannical government take over so you can shoot stuff.” Oh yea? I guess the threat of tyranny just fell off the face of the earth at the turn of the 17^th century 18^th 19^th and even the 21^st right? That is the exact attitude that opens the door to tyranny because you are fooling yourself into thinking that “it cant happen here” Just like the Germans thought when Hitler was elected, just like China thought when Mao came into power, and if you read in any history book on a shelf you will read that “No one ever thought it would happen” Well, look at what You are saying now my friends…please don’t make the mistake of assuming that Gun Control will stop violence with Guns and it wont further open the door to let tyrannical powers in, America has only one chance to make that mistake….

May peace and reason be with us all.

The NRA and all gun owners in this country should accept partial responsibility to the problem that's happening with guns in this country? First off I love that you can go through most every comment on a shooting related article and 90% are blaming or accusing the NRA or those of us who have never hurt anybody, and only 10% even mention the shooter that did all of it. Place the blame where it belongs, the NRA did not make someone go nuts and shoot someone or a family or a school of kids. I own a few guns and I did not do anything to cause someone to go nuts on a group of people or a family out walking. Most of you people need to wisen up and pull your heads out of your rears.

If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying — that they must sweep under the rug the southern attempts at gun control in the 1870-1910 period, the northeastern attempts in the 1920-1939 period, and the attempts at both Federal and State levels in 1965-1976 — establishes the repeated, complete, and inevitable failure of gun laws to control serious crime. — Senator Orrin Hatch

david-3891268

Right.....guns are such great protection. Remember the poster child for gun rights that was killed in his own shop where he modified existing weapons into more dangerous weapons. Shot dead and never defended himself with hundreds of guns within reach. Also recently a rapper and an actor had their homes broken into.....both subdued the perps until the cops arrived......without a gun.......amazing.

If the perps had guns, they wouldn't have been subdued. Not every situation calls for you to whip out a gun. If you just need to beat someone down, no gun is required.

Because Obama's issue of the day is his quest to ban guns, the "state-run" media is going to showcase every shooting and either downplay or ignore murders by other means.

It's already against the law to murder someone - BY ANY MEANS - and yet that still hasn't stopped people from killing each other. Felons are prohibited by law from owning or possessing a gun. Has that law stopped them?

By far, there are more gun owners who don't murder people than those who do.

Gun control = government control of its citizens. Nothing more, nothing less.

Why doesn't the media report the things when people SAVE their families with guns? It happens, it happens A LOT. Oh, but these sort of gun stories sell clicks AND meets the liberal bias of the media better.

I don't know HOW many times folks have put up data that shows that 1) more gun violence happens in NO GUN ZONES like SCHOOLS. and 2) that in communities where guns are encouraged and not feared that gun violence PLUMMETS. But that does not meet the agenda either, does it?

All you people that want to live where the government is in TOTAL CONTROL should move and leave my rights alone. Yup, believe it or not, I have rights and so do you. YOU have the right to not have guns if you don't want them. All those people that want to have guns will PROTECT your right to not have guns. I think that is a pretty fair deal. If you take away those people's right to do that then who will protect all of your other rights that are all but gone anyway?

OHH LOOK ANOTHER SHOOTING AT ANOTHER GUN FREE ZONE SCHOOL!! I wonder why we didn't see this coming!

you guys are just plain goofy and show you have no reason or logic. Stop buying the lies and start to think for yourself. Stop drinking the Kool Aid

Well, now the pattern is set for this politically-motivated website .... EACH and EVERY time there is a shooting anywhere in this country it will receive national attention to support taking away 2nd amendment rights!

It reminds me of when Bush was President, the lamestream media news sources gave a running death count EVERY SINGLE DAY for the wars in Iraq qnd Afghanistan! Of course, when Obama took office, those running death counts magically disappeared ! LOL !!

Of course, there are many liberals actually stupid enough that mentally ill and criminals will actually pay attention to a new gun law !!! It has not worked in Chicago and there is no competent evidence to indicate it will work anywhere.

Passing new controls/laws is simply not the answer but libs will play the emotion over logic anyway !!!!

Charmaine makes intelligent sense.

Jim...you are right...anyone who believes making stricter gun laws is going to stop the criminals are out of reality and out of touch with the mainstream, and well, stupid.

Sort of amazing isn't it - the marked increase in high profile shootings since the left has decided to make gun control their pet project......

Nah, Chuck, just an increase in the coverage they get by the president's liberal lap dog media. Usually, we don't care about shootings in thug neighborhoods...there are just too many of them to cover.

give it lot's of media attention...the world of crazy competitive shooters loves the attention...the more they publish these shooting...the more there will be...i call it trigger finger itchy bitchy...they get caught then it's all bout them self...they should remove these peoples eye balls...i believe they'd quit doing it...

Yep, let's not bother to find out anything about this incident, let's all just jump on the "Ban Guns" band wagon, and play really loud and drowned out any reasonable discussion about how to get a handle on it, or WHAT IS ACTUALLY CAUSING IT.

All we know is a 14 year old was shot in the neck, is expected to survive. A teacher was injured in the panic of the moment, (probably had a panic attack and tripped over her desk) And a suspect is in custody.

How about we wait and find out 'if' this is gang/drug related. Maybe it is an ex lover?

And my question still stands, why are things like this happening now, when they didn't 80 years ago. I would argue that there were many more guns PER CAPITA then there are now. 80 years ago I could own a machine gun no questions asked.

I am trying to think of a time when there was a massacre at a gun show or a shooting range.

More children die in a month from abuse, and neglect, mostly at the hands of those on welfare and drugs than by guns in a whole year. Yet you people scream "Ban the Guns, Ban the Guns". And my guess is less than fifty people(and except for these rare instances, ZERO children) are killed each year with a so called "Assault Weapon", yet this is what you go after? THAT IS STUPID!!!

"The intelligence of a people is inversely proportional to the size of city and the length of time spent there in". Robert Reedy 1980

“To paraphrase Chairman Mao: Freedom and Oppression are dispensed from the END of a gun. Which END are you on?” Robert Reedy 2008

And to the right-minded people here, remember to vote up those you agree with. Or add a Kudos or a Ditto as a comment.

Time to ban angry young children. Good thing that "armed guard" was on the scene and did his job. Well done.

can someone please explain to me why they want to ban handguns? I dont have any statistics to back me up on this but ive been born and raised in chicago,illinois all my life (26 years). All the bad guys (felons / not legal firearm owners) already have guns and what would banning them do? just further put the guns in the wrong hands? i dont get it. you people really make me sick. my only option of defense and you want to ban it. makes great sense. its bad enough i live in chicago already with the deadliest neighborhoods (westside is pure garbage/filth/disease) and the strictest gun laws...strictest guns laws in chicago illinois yet we have the most murders committed everyday. good riddance people. you are the death of america and all that was good in it. I dont know what country to turn to? any suggestions? I'm sick of the scum and the retardation of our society.

JD-2743902,

I couldn't have said it any better myself. im just so frustrated with all these people talking out their ass. CHICAGO PEOPLE. LOOK AT THE FACTS. NOT THEORIES.

But an armed officer was able to disarm the suspect minutes after the incident, officials said.

The new system is not bullet-proof, but as you can see, we have no choice but to fight fire,...with fire...

Here's our first experience.

Good night.....

WHY WAS THIS WHOLE POST "COLLASPED BY THE COMMUNITY"? Just because "monitors" don't like it when the arguments are going in the right direction............ MSN (lamestream news) = Dumbing down the rest of us. CENSORSHIP..................

If the NRA is responsible for gun violence, I guess the AAA ought to take the blame for road rage.

Better ban places like Wal-Mart, Costco, Target and CVS. All of these places have everything I need to manufacture a shoebox-sized device capable of taking down a 2-story house. Bullets? Ban away! As long as cars have tires that need to be balanced, I have a virtually unlimited supply of bullet-making material. My background as a machinist/tool & die maker allows me to build whatever I need to dispense those bullets.

As a responsible citizen, I choose to do none of these things in spite of having the knowledge to do so.

Guns are banned at the school... and still another child is shot.

..and there's a stop sign at the end of my block and yet still somebody ran it today. Stop signs only hurt the law abiding citizens. :::eye roll:::

david-3891268

There was NO WHERE near 30,000 handgun deaths last year. 8583 or less than 1 percent of preventable deaths. Cigarette smoking (heart disease) and car accidents are far far far worse.

This who gun-ban debate would go much smoother if people could be honest. As for this incident - good guy with a gun stopped bad guy with a gun - that's how it works.

ebo1

"80% of all serial killers are Republican, according to polls. And I see why: irrational minds can snap at any time. All this talk about finding the dangerous people, rather than the weapons, would require institutionalization for nearly the entire Republican Party, which is neither feasible nor affordable. That's why the guns have to go."

Man that is some scary $*%t. They should all be lynched and burned at the stake! But wait a minute……..what about these scary people:

Ft. Hood shooter - Registered Democrat – Muslim

Columbine shooters - Too young to vote but both families were registered Democrats and progressive liberals.

Virginia Tech shooter - Registered Democrat - Wrote hate mail to President Bush and to his staff.

Colorado Theater shooter - Registered Democrat; staff worker on the Obama campaign; Occupy Wall Street participant; progressive liberal.

Connecticut School Shooter - Registered Democrat; hated Christians.

Congresswoman Gabby Gifford’s’ shooter – Leftist, registered Democrat.

All of these shooters were progressive Democrats!

Disarmenet is not the answer, it did not work in 1937 and wont work now. That off duty cop is a hero and should receive all of the nations thanks for saving the lives of those kids and teachers at the school. I was living in Colorado when an off duty Game Warden confronted a puke at school. order him to put his weapon on the ground, the puke was watching too many movies. The Game Warden put 3 bullets in his head and saved the lives of at least 30 kids. Easy trade one wacked out punk for the lives of 30 kids. done deal.

A student at the school was in custody, police said. Atlanta Police Chief George Turner said a resource officer at the school

, so was a student not allowed to have a gun . so had it illegally

Make gun owners pay for insurance on all their guns, just like I do on all my cars. There needs to be a disincentive to amassing an arsenal of weapons that gets stolen or gets distributed as part of an estate. I’m a responsible driver, and I pay car insurance on more cars than my household can drive at one time. Save thing should apply to a responsible gun owner. You want a gun, fine! Pay a small amount to insure it. You want 100 guns, fine! Pay much more insurance on that. When I consider buying a car, I must decide if I’m also willing to pay for insurance on it. Gun ownership should be like that as well.

The insurance money should go to a fund to pay medical bills for gunshot victims. If collectively, we all behave ourselves, insurance costs go down for everyone. If we all go crazy, shooting everyone in sight, insurance costs skyrocket for everyone. Many without health insurance are injured by gunfire, and the insured community ultimately pays those fees. Gun insurance will correct this, much as car insurance does for the car owning community.

Then, every year, take your guns for an accountability inspection. Can’t find your gun? You get a huge fine, or jail time for repeat offenders. Crime committed with a gun registered to you? Jail time for you and whoever committed the crime. You are found with an unregistered gun? Jail time and/or fine.

If you are a responsible gun owner, take responsibility for your guns. Just like I do with my cars.

So, if someone breaks into your house that you locked, into the garage that was locked, and into the car that was locked, steals it and kills someone with it, you should go to jail too. Perfect.

6079smithw

If the NRA is responsible for gun violence, I guess the AAA ought to take the blame for road rage.

Better ban places like Wal-Mart, Costco, Target and CVS. All of these places have everything I need to manufacture a shoebox-sized device capable of taking down a 2-story house. Bullets? Ban away! As long as cars have tires that need to be balanced, I have a virtually unlimited supply of bullet-making material. My background as a machinist/tool & die maker allows me to build whatever I need to dispense those bullets.

As a responsible citizen, I choose to do none of these things in spite of having the knowledge to do so. #1.76

These brain dead City Monkey don't understand what you just said. To them only "Gun Manufacturers" make guns. They don't understand that people like you and me can make our own guns, and fully automatic ones at that. So, when they ban guns, and it is profitable to do so. I will turn my mill loose to the highest bidder, and I will manufacture the components necessary to make guns, just as they manufacture Meth.

Make gun owners pay for insurance on all their guns, just like I do on all my cars. There needs to be a disincentive to amassing an arsenal of weapons that gets stolen or gets distributed as part of an estate.

If your car is stolen or gets distributed as part of an estate, and someone takes that car and drives it through a crowd of people, is your insurance company liable for it?

Liability insurance for gun owners is available if they ever need to use their firearm for defense. I'm not sure if it works outside the home, but it is available.

However, insurance is to handle claims that are *your* fault or in the event that the other driver doesn't have any insurance. In either case, I assure you, anyone who uses a gun to commit murder is not going to have insurance.

There are no requirements under the constitution for locking up our guns. It's not enforceable as that would violate another amendment of unreasaonable searches. It is up to each individual owner to decide on how best to keep their firearms.

A gun, like a mind, is only useful when its accessible.

Exactly. If there were as many responsible gun owners and purchasers as the NRA claims there wouldn't be so many random weapons available for criminals and those who are up to no good.

But the catch is that if you properly secure your weapon in the home it will likely not be available for immediate use. Guns are a worthless element of our society. We don't typically use them for gathering food and with the weaponry now available hunting isn't very sporting any longer. So what do we do with them all? Turn them on each other and quite often ourselves. A part of America of which no one should be proud.

The idea that the 10 million guns were sold in the last 6 months for self defense purposes is absurd. Most of those sold were sold to people who have an offensive use in mind and they aren't thinking about targeting animals. None of those buyers should have been able to purchase a firearm yet they bought millions. What a sick, sick country we have become.

Well, here in Oklahoma you can have a three year old shoot himself at someone's house that had a gun in a nightstand and NO CHARGES WILL BE FILED. NONE, THEY DON'T CARE....leave a child in a car and JAIL TIME.... Red states = MOST uneducated...

You can't ban guns.....it gets in the way of defending yourself against the Zombie Apocalypse.....(sarcasm)

At last one of you with common sense.

Dawgfan -

There in lies the problem, to provide a safe place to live for everyone violates the rights of someone else and no one will step up to the plate and say "you're right, the safety of children an adult innocent victims, doing nothing but going about their day is more important than my right to have a gun."

The land of the free is a little deceiving. Not very free when you can be gunned down shopping at the mall or going to school, or going to work, or even driving a school bus. What the NRA is wanting isn't much different than what the Cold War was about, Mutual destruction.

Moron! (no sarcasm)

@Eric

That is just nonsense.... Everyone knows that it is best to use arrows or baseball bats to kill zombies. It is quieter and keeps you safe in case there are more zombies around. (source: The Walking Dead, any episode)

oliverb, I though you were busy measuring male organs.

Dawgfan,

So there's no point in making any new laws just because people won't follow them?

We already have people who don't follow laws. They're called criminals.

Why have laws that ban cocaine, or heroin? People are gonna do it anyway, so why bother?

No sense trying to make our lives safer and keep one more child from being shot, because YOU WON'T TAKE MY GUNS!!!

Amazes me how people who talk about the Second Amendment have absolutely no idea why it was put into the Constitution or its context. It was because when the country was first founded, there was no national army to speak of. There was no state police. There was no authority anywhere nearby for many people. So, people had to protect themselves, which meant they could keep guns.

And if we are gonna hold the Bill of Rights up as some holier than thou piece of paper that NO ONE CAN EVER CHANGE, than maybe we should just get rid of all the other amendments that have come since then. It's been amended 17 times since the Bill of Rights, because ya know, the Founding Fathers forgot a few things.

Like... slavery.

You can make an amendment that more thoroughly defines what "right to bear arms" means. It should mean "you have the right to own a gun, as long as you are in good standing, have no criminal record, have a clean mental health report, and register it". I don't think that's too much to ask.

Yes, people aren't gonna pay attention to it, but again, why bother having laws at all if people break them? We have to start somewhere. No more children dying.

If you choose to own a gun it should be secured to your person or locked up at all times. The ONLY time a gun should be in a nightstand is when the guns owner is sleeping next to it.

@True Fact

That is why I have your mother.

Snow,

You are incorrect. The 2nd Amendment was put in place so the people could defend themselves from an oppressive govt. It was to ensure that no citizen of The United States ever experienced the same oppressive govt the our founders experienced. The 2nd is there to ensure our freedoms will always be there.

Y'all need to get out of your idealistic suburbian definition of violence. This wasn't mommy's gun, it was probably given to him by another gangbanger. No amount of banning or background checks will keep someone from getting a stolen or illegally obtained gun.

So by your logic, we can also not keep illegals from coming over the border so nothing will work so let's not try.

By your logic, let's throw everybody out of the country so nobody is here illegally.

Eric,

There's a difference with your comparison. Firearms are a constitutional right that any person born or becomes a citizen of this country has a right to them. Immigration is also laid out in the Constitution, and requires those coming here illegally be deported for 5 years. A second time caught here illegally deported for 10 years. A third time and they are banned for life. Just another example of the Constitution that is being ignored by this administration and many of the past administrations.

But again Dawgfan, why does that matter in the present day?

You are right, the other part was we didn't want the government to be oppressive. But back in 1781, the U.S. military (for what it was worth) had muskets and guns. The American public had... muskets and guns. It was a level playing field.

Now, the American public has handguns, rifles, and maybe automatic weapons (which they shouldn't have, but that's beside the point).

The government has:

nukes

all the planes in the Air Force

Patriot missiles

Apache helicopters

etc.

It is WAY in the favor of the government. There is no way we could protect ourselves at this point if our government wants to screw us. So, what's the point?

Unless we make it so every American citizen has access to an Apache helicopter, then the Second Amendment, and what it was meant to do, is a pipe dream at best today.

And if they ever start to let us have Apache helicopters, I'm first in line.

I am a gunowner and I agree. Even when living alone, a gunowner should be 101% aware of who can get to your gun(s). The revolver at the bottom of the sock drawer routine is negligence when you have children and irresponsible people in your home. If the gun isn't on your person, it better be in a safe.

I am one of those people who others claim don't hunt anymore. No, I don't hunt for sport. I hunt to feed my family. Yes, we could buy store meat if we wanted to but deer meat is organic and "free" (minus the bullets and license to hunt). My one gun will never be used against another human (God willing) and will only be used to kill deer to help us eat a healthier life style. But we also grow veggies and I would like to own chickens in the next year. So call me crazy if you want to, but I think we all need to quit living like the Jones' and focus more on family instead of money.

It's simple guys. Banning guns will do nothing but make the good guys defenseless. Give me a number on how many concealed legal carriers went on a shooting rampage. Exactly my point. Can't blame the psychotic actions of one on firearms. The media has blown this up way out of proportion. The only way to stop a man with a gun is with a gun. No crossfire no innocent people dying.. nothing like that. The media has everyone thinking someone with a gun or even an AR-15 is unstoppable. No sir, it takes one shot. That's it.

"The beauty of the Second Amendment is that it will not be needed unless they try to take it." -Thomas Jefferson

Are we there yet,

You don't have a right to safety. You have a right to defend yourself from those threats, but safety is not mentioned in the Bill of Rights.

If you want a place to live without gun violence or guns at all, then move to London. I hear there's no guns but you are 5 times more likely to be stabbed or assaulted there.

It's Violence Control.....Not Gun Control.

Pro gun people wish to think it's all about their guns being taken away, when in fact no one has ever made mention of taking your gun away, nor getting rid of the 2nd amendment.

It is perfectly legal for the government to limit the access to certain types of weapons and ammo, it has been part of the history of arms control for a very long time in our country. You can't own certain types of weapons.

You have no excuse or reason that would even be a worthy argument for actions like this. Your perceived paranoia about your second amendment rights mean nothing when so many lives are at risk. So comparing accidents or other forms of death or what other countries do, do not matter.....Stick to the issue, don't try and water it down with facts not in evidence. Like cars...well they didn't use to have seat belts...now they do. Why..too many deaths without them...case closed argument done.

My whole point is we can continue to hang onto the theory of what if's about the 2nd amendment, while we know one thing for certain that is real, there are going to be even more deaths if nothing is done. That means more deaths tomorrow and the day after......

Let's change the debate to what can we all do about Gun violence, and get off this side issue.

Bets on gang violence?

Eric-913730 You are Exactly right! By gun owners logic (if there is such a thing)...we should give up the war on drugs...take away speed limits, just not have any laws whatsoever. Because no matter how hard police try to enforce all the laws, they always have people breaking them, no matter what. And just think gun people, if we gave up enforcing the laws...we wouldn't be wasting all those tax dollars on prisons and prisoners...Wow...hay...I think you guys got something there...(that is sarcasm!)

You guys don't understand the gun issue. You can ban guns all you want, and it want change. I have been in education for the past 20 years. The last 13 in a major city. The guns that we deal with are not someones gun that they bring from home. These guns come off the street either stolen, or received and never registered. I have students that could get you a gun before they could find you a pencil. This is what happens when we as parents allow our 8 to 17 year old children run the streets without any supervision.

Go google 3d printable weaponry. The files are already all over the web. Banning guns will do nothing. Especially now that 3d printing has moved into metal.

Snow,

Yes, the govt does hold the planes, helicoptors, and Nukes, but how many of the men and women in the military would follow orders to kill other Americans? There are roughly 100,000,000 gun owners controlling nearly 306,000,000 firearms in this country. There's no way a govt army could take on and defeat that mass. Hint. Take a look at Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, Tunisia, Libya, and Syria is getting there. Libya is a perfect example. The soldiers defected and gave the missles, guns, planes, tanks, and everything else they could to the rebels. What happened? The rebels overthrew the govt.

Again. A 14 year old boy was shot in the head? Both injured parties were alert? No fatalities then? Shot in the head with what then? By whom? Who is the suspect? What was the motive?

As the media continues to exacerbate the problem and feed your rage (and a political agenda), everyone says, "Guns should be banned." and "Somebody needs to do something about all this GUN violence."

Somebody else that is, everyone else is too busy and expecting the government to solve this problem.

See you all tomorrow

Criminals love the NRA & LaPew's message:

Since the overhaul of the NRA in 1977 in which its leaders started to focus more on the second amendment gun violence has risen. It's the message they are sending....No on anything. Criminals say hell yes...That gives me the right to carry a firearm anywhere I want and do what I want. While sane weapons owners are left with the rap.

Prior to 1977 the NRA stand & focus was more on safety, sportsmanship, & conservation.The NRA worked with our government on several ratifications to the NFA and supported those changes.

LaPew is the last person anyone should be listening to about the second amendment, as he is not educationally qualified to address the issue. His resume contains nothing except for the NRA and a few book on the subject. I would take the word of someone that studied Constitutional law over LaPew any day.

The message from the NRA is spread fear, arm everyone with any weapon, which is a far cry from the original charter of why the NRA was started and remained that way until 1977.

Remember..... it's Gun Violence..... not Gun Control.

FreedomOverSympathy,

3D printers are thousands of dollars. And that's for the crap ones.

The average citizen is not gonna be able to afford that.

For a "decent" quality one, it's almost $35,000. Just Google "3D printer" and you can see the prices.

ChrisK,

There are differences in laws and Constitutional Rights. The laws must act withing the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Motor vehicles are not in the Bill of Rights so you have all the regulations and laws regarding licensing and insurance, and people can and do have that PRIVILEGE taken away. You can not take away a right.

@Imnotconcernedwhereheis - Bush

Red states are most uneducated -- seriously?????? It was the blue states that voted for the unintelligent and immoral empty suit in the WH. Seems you don't care about debt, deficits, jobs, and the economy -- just gun control, pro abortion, getting amnesty for illegals -- maybe because you don't have any skin in the game. Get back to me when you're paying YOUR fair share.

Guns don't kill people people kill people...stupid argument. and still another child is shot.

Guns are banned at the school... and still another child is shot.

Shooting someone is illegal.. and still two people are shot.

If guns had been banned yesterday, the person who pulled the trigger probably already had the gun and it would not have stopped the shooting today.

The guns are already out there. School shootings are a new phenomenon of our times in the same vein as flash mobs and we have to find a way to deal with them as an item separate from guns. Insisting on trying to control the guns is a certain path to failure.

Snow - a full 3d printable "assault rifle" was made off a 1300$ printer - it fired 200 rounds, was made of plastic and cost less than 35$ to make - I have read well into the 12 hour range into these over the last month.

I immediately thought ... hell I have spent 2x this in the last month on guns .... should have just bought a printer.

Dawgfan,

There are differences in laws and Constitutional Rights. The laws must act withing the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Motor vehicles are not in the Bill of Rights so you have all the regulations and laws regarding licensing and insurance, and people can and do have that PRIVILEGE taken away. You can not take away a right.

So, the 18th Amendment was about protecting a right? The 18th Amendment was Prohibition, which banned alcohol. That was taking away a right.

Then, the government realized it screwed up, and the 21st Amendment repealed it.

The Constitution is not written in stone. That's why we have amendments. You can change the Second Amendment with another amendment without completely getting rid of it.

Dawgfan-4710266

Do you think the writers of the Bill of Rights, or the Constitution were referring to the types of weaponry available today...or just simply meant the black powder, and lead ball gun that took 5 minutes to reload. To me, that presents reason enough to rethink, reconsider this amendment. There are so many laws, as well, that were put on the books way back when that are so irrelevant to today's times...but those laws still exist. Its time for some changes to take place...they are needed changes...

people be careful of all these mental people in our lives, the govt has changed the way i view them. i use to let them come in my store and i didnt mind but now i will not allow anyone in my store that has a disability or mental issue. they may go postal on us. ive got a solution to the problem and everyone can keep their guns, its very simple too. nowadays if you kill someone you will prolly get 7 years and it will be reduced to around 4 if you are good in prison. my solution is that if you are convicted of killing someone then kill the person that did the killing and televise it on tv. after you execute the first 100 i guarantee you the murder rate will drop to almost nothing. save money on judges, lawyers, court and prison. plus the families that lost their loved one will be more at peace knowing the killer is lone gone and not able to have a life.

chrisk196, you wouldn't have to take away speed limits if you banned cars. This is the logic you are using. The shooter broke the law when he shot somebody. The shooter will be dealt with. Most criminals break more than one law at a time, and guesss what, they don't care.

How about we get the facts first before anyone comes to a conclusion. Was this gang related? Was it revenge for bullying or the like? Wait for it all to come out, then maybe we can have a productive discusion

@snowfi6916 Every member of the military takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, not the unconstitutional laws of the incumbant President. I know an entire military post that will not use weapons against the people because of Obama's gun control laws. It just happens to be the biggest Air Assault post in the country and where I was stationed. I also have friends in Special Forces and Task Force who won't follow Obama's orders to fire on civilians on American soil. There is a letter being sent to Obama with over 2000 Green Beret signitures stating they will NOT go against the 2nd Amendment.

@chrisk196 I believe there is provisions in the constitution for equal weapons for the people as the government. As a matter of fact I have the court ruling of a man who set the precident for why AR15's are legal because the military does use them or a weapon similar.

FreedomOverSympathy,

So, a $1,300 printer... and you said you spent 2x that ($2,600) in ONE month on guns.

Do I really want to know what you're doing?

Sorry, I'm poking fun.

Where is all of this crap still coming from? No one (absolutely no one) is seriously proposing a ban on all guns! No one (absolutely no one) is seriously proposing that further gun control legislation will prevent all future gun massacres or all murderous shootings!

Until the above statement is fully understood and acknowledged, further debate on how to curb such occurrences is futile. Doing nothing is not an option if we are to remain a free society. The argument for even more guns and armed guards is not only foolish, it assures the demise of our free society.

We are smarter than this. We are better than this. We will and must find a workable solution to this tragic and most shameful blight on the American way of life.

nice weapons are expensive =) a friend of mine has a 16,000 brazer trap shooting shotgun. that 2600$ only bought 2 guns. and its more like 3,100$ for those 2 guns. And for everyone who says "bullets cost 1million dollars" LOL - I guess you have never heard of reloading. A gun can be made in a basement - just as bullets can be made in a basement.

It just shows how little these individuals know or understand about guns.

ASLDS +1 on your assessment.

Dotties girl

Yes you are so right...because I'm sure there are no repubes sitting on there lazy as* collecting all they can from U.Sam! And of course, all democrats are for abortion...(sarcasm) Why don't you try staying on topic here...the conversation is about gun control...(and its about time there was some of that in this country) If the only arguement you gun totters have against gun control, is that some of the people who do want gun control are pro abortion, than I'd say you have a very lame arguement...and perhaps you should try to stay on topic.

Common, Read the above posts calling for a ban of all guns.

Apples & Oranges

Comparing anything with gun violence is stupid and shows no understanding of the issue & makes excuses for the issue. It diverts that's all it does.

Comparing our country to others....Again, makes excuses and diverts. The problem is here, not there.

Are we starting to get it?

How can we expect our Representatives in DC to come to some sort of reasonable solution if we allow any debate to get side tracked by other issues? What happens here in this discussion is the same thing that happens in DC...and we ask ourselves why nothing gets done.

Focus on the issue. How do we curb Gun Violence.

formersoldier-2444453 yes and the military also uses rocket launchers, and tanks, etc, etc...I would NOT want Joe blow down the street owning and using "for recreational purposes" a rocket launcher or tank...

I'd be interested in seeing your proof on the rest of your statement regarding "firing on civilians"...I believe G W Bush had "something" to do with 9/11, but I can't prove that either...

I wonder if by the year 2050 we will all be packing phaser guns like on Star Trek?

Think how easy clean up will be. No more corpses.

We can all just kill off the people we don't like if we feel angry, or zap anonymous people we never met before, and then we can thank the Second Amendment for allowing us to own whatever kind of weapon we want.

I wish I understood why voxrationis's comment was collapsed by the community. I'm wondering if Republican viewers (or NRA shills) couldn't bear the truth glaring back at them? There was nothing offensive in that post, which leads me to believe that someone was trying to cover it up.

Why would they do that? Because it puts them to shame. And if someone is ashamed of something, then they already know that they are in the wrong. But if they know that they are wrong, then why do they continue to argue? My guess is fear: either fear of the remote possibility of getting hurt (gun owners), or being out of a job (NRA shills).

What is fear for? It has the benefit of moving us to get out of a dangerous situation. But when someone is utterly gripped and controlled by their fear, then you have a dangerous person. To quote the fictional character, Yoda (who was created by a real person, along with his logic), "Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering." There are a lot of dangerous people around, including a good number of them right here in these forums!

Silverton - or we could be like the jews in Germany in the 1940's. Who knows?

wolphi,

yes, some are calling for banning all guns, but the proposed legislation does not. you have the right to bear arms but you should also be held accountable when you dont secure your weapons in a responsible manner. the majority of the mass shootings we have seen later are from people who legally purchased their weapons, does that not raise a red flag to you?

other comments on here, like dawgfans, saying that of course the people couldnt mount a rebellion against the government, we will need soldiers to defect and rely on their morals that they wouldnt turn their guns on the american people. so dawgfan, doesnt that arguement (yours) contradict why we need the 2nd amendment from earlier on?

and dottie, youve got to be kidding me, if someone insults your intellegence and then you use the bumper sticker phrase of "empty suit" as some kind of counter point im afraid you have already done yourself in.

@silverton

I'm guessing you responsed out of emotion, but if you had just taken a second to think, there ARE federal and state gun laws. While the Second Amendment dictates that we can own guns, the government dictates what kind of guns we can own. Full automatic machine guns have been off the list for over half a century. I'm sure if they ever invent a handheld energy weapon in our life time, it won't be sold to civilians, even if they could afford one.

@Steve-3564331 - I would suggest looking over H.R. 226 that is currently in the House. This bill contradicts your theory that the fed is not trying to "get our guns"...they are even wanting to give away $2000 tax credits for all those dumb enough to hand them over. While not technically confiscation, it is the beginning of that debate.

Do you really think this bill will stop "gun violence" in our country? I can see it now....criminals (you know...the ones that would actually kill a bunch of people)....I can just see them lining up to give away their guns for a tax refund. Clearly that isn't going to stop gun violence in our country....So what does this bill do?

It takes guns away from law-abiding, average Americans and nothing else. Thing about that for a minute....what is that going to acheive. The way I see it...the more people like you that would give up your guns for the "betterment of society", the more you are giving the upper hand the those criminals that won't.

Face the facts....we live in a violent world. You and I may not like to accept the violence, but disarming those that do not accept the violence is only going to make the problem worse.

DesertMo,

I imagine someone back in the 1700's would have said the same thing.

"Oh, no private citizens would ever be allowed to own a weapon that has the capability to kill dozens of people in a matter of seconds!"

And some people in the future will be saying

"Don't mess with MY phaser guns! It is MY Second Amendment Right to own this weapon and I am going out and buy every single recharger I can afford so I can stockpile enough energy weapons to protect MY self and MY family when the Government Man comes to get ME!"

Is 'true fact' the founder and CEO of stupid? Rarely see such consistent inanity over such a range of posts. He sounds like the dumb, loud guy among a group of 13 year old's. I'll not state what I really think.

'freedom over sympathy'. No need explaining that one. I drive by after he's been hit by a bus. I have the freedom to stop, chuckle, and drive on. I believe I would.

I'm done debating with you, silverton. You have no idea how gun laws work in our country and your responses are filled with fallacies. If I didn't know better, I would say you were trolling.

Letsgoblues, The majority of these shootings have also happened in "gun free zones". Does that raise a red flag for you?

DesertMo,

I am sorry you don't like people who disagree with your views and who have logical reasons to do so.

But there are millions who do.

Confussed-1578043, #2- I DO NOT understand why your Comment is collapsed!

Dawgfan-4710266

Snow,

You are incorrect. The 2nd Amendment was put in place so the people could defend themselves from an oppressive govt. It was to ensure that no citizen of The United States ever experienced the same oppressive govt the our founders experienced. The 2nd is there to ensure our freedoms will always be there

Pure and utter BS! The 2nd amendment is not a license to commit treason, which is what you would be doing if you took up arms against your govenrment. The constitution has built into it several safeguards against tyranny, but permission to take up arms against your govenrment is not one of them. In what universe can a govenrment ever hope to exist for long if it sows the seeds of it own destruction?

I get so sick and tired of this nonsense being repeated over and over again. Seriously you have certain rights, but the right to take up arms against your government is not one of them.

CNN reported it was "a good area of town"..........

Why does it matter what part of town it was.

Dawn wow as if it could not have happened anywhere else in this country??

Not a good part of town!!! it's the ghetto.

Just Dee,

When you watch the News here, and every morning shootings and murders happen in the same part of town it becomes just another day. Like I said. This was not surprising in that part of town. I never said it was ok. Just not surprising.

Dawgfan's point is that the majority of gun violence in America are located in inner cities and are usually gang related. Mass shootings are sensational, but represent less than 1% of gun violence in general.

Awww, Dawg, just admit to the racism and be done with it. In fact, the last two shootings in Chicago that made the news happened in "good" parts of town.

Again. A 14 year old boy was shot in the head? Both injured parties were alert? No fatalities then? Shot in the head with what then? By whom? Who is the suspect? What was the motive?

As the media continues to exacerbate the problem and feed your rage (and a political agenda), everyone says, "Guns should be banned." and "Somebody needs to do something about all this GUN violence."

Somebody else that is, everyone else is too busy and expecting the government to solve this problem.

See you all tomorrow

Don't worry about it people......even if the government decides to turn the military on us all with an iron fist a pretty large chunk of that army is going to go "oh hell no"and it will turn on itself. The military is made up of people like everyone else. An order like that isn't going to fly well. I wouldn't worry about it as much as some seem to on here.....or use it as a true excuse for the gun issue. Basically if this happens......you have the army itself to fight the army. No need for a public rabble with shotguns and pistols

Wow Jaguar! Calling the race card alreay!? People throwing that around with such disreguard makes it laughable nowadays and no one can take you seriously. Remember that when you point your ifnger at someone you have three fringers pointing back at yourself.

Ok, Dawg

how many of those guns would not be on the street illegally if they had been locked up in the first place. Most robberies take place then the home owner is not home. If they are not home and the loaded weapon is just laying around, how is the making anyone safer. Most gun deaths of minors are because of a loaded gun in a closet or nightstand being found by a child and them shooting them selves or friends. I am a gun owner and I can tell you my biggest fear is being shot by some one thinking that they can protect me from a criminal with a gun. My second greatest fear is that one of my grandchildren will be shot while playing a friends house where a gun is not secured. Just a couple of months ago a 3 yr old child shot himself with a gun off grampas nightstand while grandpa was napping 2 feet away. Basically if your gun is not on your person LOCK it up.

Good part of town, my backside.

This is the old Carver Homes Housing Project (spelled g-h-e-t-t-o) that the city knocked down because it was so infested. And to clean up the city for Olympics, which only brought in more black thugs, drugs, gangs, guns, underage prostitution, with more than a smattering illegals, but they moved further north.

I wonder if by the year 2050 we will all be packing phaser guns like on Star Trek?

Think how easy clean up will be. No more corpses.

Then when someone goes out and kills people they don't like, or zaps anonymous people they never met before because they feel angry, we can justify it by saying that the Second Amendment allows us to own whatever kind of weaponry we want.

silverton - your response shows you have no ability to comprehend and analyze my statement. Bravo to you.

Arm yourselves people.. Arm yourselves..

@silverton

You DO know that one of the first things Hitler did was disarm the general public, right?

Steve-Criminals love the NRA???? Good one. By the way, did you get your picture done at Glamor Shots?

FreedomOver,

Watch the History Channel's series, The Third Reich: Rise and Fall. Wonderful, award-winning series told from the viewpoint of the German people themselves. Their home movies, diaries, letters, memories. Very telling about how brainwashing propaganda and mass paranoia convinced good people to believe in something that was actually evil.

DesertMo,

You do know that no one in our government has ever asked you to give up all your weapons, right?

to gojiraatomic:..who said the government will turn our ON troops against us?..I'll bet that you don't know this, but there are literally thousands of U.N.troops TRAINING in the Unites states right now..Don't you think that if a order was given, THEY would be more likely to fire on the civilian population than our own troops?

This is way off track..The debate is being derailed by BS.

FreedomOverSympathy

There is a huge difference between a race being exterminated and your suggestion. It reachs too far.

FERNDOC
Protect the students and teachers by having trained, armed personel (teachers or guards) at our schools so that the schools will not present such an attractive target range for lunatics!

On the day of the Columbine massacre there was a trained armed guard on duty.

Adding more guns to the situation in an effort to secure peace is like having intercourse in an effort to obtain virginity.

True Fact :
oliverb, us NRA guys carry a gun to keep pedophiles like you away from children.

Then why are you failing so miserably at that goal?

stonepipe2

Thank You for your input on my post.

I took it myself while working for them as a photographer, If I hadn't cropped the photo you could see the trigger in my hand.

This is for UtahMom/ You lock yours up and i pray you never need it. Myself i keep mine locked up from the i get up till the time i go to bed in my holster handing on my hip. If a creep comes after you his gun is not going to be locked up.

Where is all of this crap still coming from? No one (absolutely no one) is seriously proposing a ban on all guns! No one (absolutely no one) is seriously proposing that further gun control legislation will prevent all future gun massacres or all murderous shootings!

Until the above statement is fully understood and acknowledged, further debate on how to curb such occurrences is futile. Doing nothing is not an option if we are to remain a free society. The argument for even more guns and armed guards is not only foolish, it assures the demise of our free society.

We are smarter than this. We are better than this. We will and must find a workable solution to this tragic and most shameful blight on the American way of life.

@silverton

You are comparing gun right activists with Hilter, who disarmed his citizens. I was pointing out your flawed analogy, not comparing Hitler to our government (I'm not even sure where you got that from).

Ok really the term GHETTO is not racial its a type of area or slum buildings but if people want to be racial on it then ghetto didnt start with black it started with white when the Jewish were in the Holocaust. So i think people should just look on the main issue and hope the boy is ok.

Commonsense101: wrong- I am proposing a ban on all guns.

THAT (after collection) is the only way this will stop.

The 2nd Amendment became an anachronism after WWII, when automatic weapons, grenades, and other highly efficient methods of killing were developed and kept in the hands of our permanent standing military force. The reason for the 2nd Amendment was to provide for the defense of a young country which could not afford to keep a standing army.

Those days are long gone.

It is time to STOP the killing.

Steve the cowboy wrote: Since the overhaul of the NRA in 1977 in which its leaders started to focus more on the second amendment gun violence has risen. It's the message they are sending....No on anything. Criminals say hell yes...That gives me the right to carry a firearm anywhere I want and do what I want. While sane weapons owners are left with the rap.

You are completely wrong. Since the early 1990's gun violence has dropped dramatically while the number of guns and gun owners has risen. And criminals, anyone with a record, are not allowed to buy guns legally much less carry them legally. You need to face reality instead of making things up. And criminals hate the fact that there are a lot of law abiding people having guns. They avoid people with guns and go after the easy targets.

The NRA doesn't spread fear. That would be the liberals and the media. They jump all over a rare occurrence like Sandy Hook and make it seem like shootings like that are an epidemic so they can institute their gun control.

You really need to get your *** out of that cowboy hat.

One of the issues we should be asking ourselves is why this is a male thing and not a female thing.

Don't go giving me the weaker sex thing...Or girls don't like guns....It's a cop out.

Think about it before you respond.

Steve-356. Since the late seventies the population has grown by a considerable amount so considering the ratio of criminals and wackos to law abiding people of course crime will go up.

Roodles

Care to explain this:

Since the 1970s, the NRA has undergone a series of internal governance changes, gradually changing from a "marksmanship group into a mighty gun lobby."^[21][22] In 1977, two Second Amendment advocates—Harlon Carter and Neal Knox—defeated sportsmanship and conservation-focused officers to run the organization and its lobbying unit, respectively.^[21][22] After 1977, the organization expanded its membership and focused heavily on political issues. The NRA supported the McClure-Volker firearms decontrol bill of 1986, and worked to reduce the powers of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). In 1982, Knox formed a competing lobbying group.^{[citation needed]} By 1984, the organization's membership approached 3 million.^[23]

Dawgfan's point is that the majority of gun violence in America are located in inner cities and are usually gang related. Mass shootings are sensational, but represent less than 1% of gun violence in general.

Desertmo - Great point that most of the gun control freeks don't bother to research.

@Steve-3564331 MSNBC ate another of my posts and I'm not going to try to remember it...

Basically what I said the first time....I would suggest reading up on H.R. 226 that is currently in the House right now. The whole point of that bill is to "get our guns"...and we are going to do so at the taxpayers expense ($2000 tax credits for all those that surrender a firearm).

The funniest part is that they think this is actually a "solution". If we have people give up their guns, we are safer as a society....seriously though, how many criminals do you think will be in that line if this bill becomes law?

You said it best yourself...this is about "gun violence" not "gun control". I would challenge that theory and say this is about "violence", not "gun violence".

Ban handguns.

M Brown-2820870

the population rate in 1970 was 13.3% in 2010 was 9.7% that doesn't suggest a rise.

SickOfPolitics2

To amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to allow a credit against
tax for surrendering to authorities certain assault weapons.SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the ``Support Assault Firearms Elimination
and Reduction for our Streets Act''.

SEC. 2. ASSAULT WEAPON TURN-IN CREDIT.

(a) In General.--Subpart A of part IV of subchapter A of chapter 1
of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by inserting before
section 26 the following new section:

``SEC. 25E. ASSAULT WEAPON TURN-IN CREDIT.

``(a) Allowance of Credit.--
``(1) In general.--In the case of an individual who
surrenders a specified assault weapon to the United States or a
State or local government (or political subdivision thereof) as
part of a Federal, State, or local public safety program to
reduce the number of privately owned weapons, on the election
of the taxpayer there shall be allowed as a credit against the
tax imposed by this chapter an amount equal to $2,000.
``(2) Year credit allowed.--The amount of the credit under
paragraph (1) shall be allowed \1/2\ for the taxable year
during which the assault weapon was so surrendered and \1/2\ in
the next taxable year.
``(b) Special Rules.--
``(1) Weapon must be lawfully possessed.--No credit shall
be allowed under subsection (a) with respect to any specified
assault weapon not lawfully possessed by the taxpayer at the
time the weapon is surrendered.
``(2) Substantiation requirement.--No credit shall be
allowed under subsection (a) for the surrender of any specified
assault weapon unless the taxpayer substantiates the surrender
by a contemporaneous written acknowledgment of the surrender by
the Federal, State, or local governmental entity to which the
weapon is surrendered.
``(3) Denial of double benefit.--The taxpayer may elect the
application of this section with respect to only 1 weapon, and
if such election is made for any taxable year, no deduction
shall be allowed under any other provision of this chapter with
respect to the surrender or contribution of the specified
assault weapon.
``(c) Assault Weapon.--For purposes of this section--
``(1) In general.--The term `specified assault weapon'

Where does it say get your guns....This is for specific types of weapons and only a tax credit at best for legally obtained weapons. It is an IRS code. Not an enforcement code.

Steve Since the seventies the population has increased substaually so the ratio of wackos and criminals has increased as well so of course crime rates have gone up as well.

When the United Kingdom banned all handguns after the massacre of children in 1996, the British government asked people to turn in their guns for cash, and most civilians did.

The British government has not turned on its people since then or subjected them to a dictatorship. So what makes some of you think the U.S. government will? Our leaders have not suggested all guns be banned and respects the Second Amendment.

And what does the American government have to gain by turning on its people?

Gee, some of you really need to turn off Fox News, and start loving your country more instead of always thinking it is out to get you.

dirp, I repeat. I said serious proposals. Extremists on both sides of this issue are what keeps us in a quagmire. This is not Burger King. You can't have it your way.

M Brown-2820870

Hey I got my figures from census.gov

I don't know what your talking about but I try and work in facts.

Do the math 13.3%-9.7%=3.6% decrease in population growth from 1970-2010

Again any side bar issue to bolster the paranoia & fear generated by the NRA. When held up against fact they just don't pass the stink test.

Ban handguns.

Ban idiots calling for a ban on handguns

Roodles SickOfPolitics2

Was it something I posted that made you quit responding? Could it have been fact over fiction?

Steve-3564331---All your nice facts and figures as you call it do not mean anything because the 2nd amendment does not say guns it says arms. Read the whole amendment and then the definition of arms then the definition of infringed. It also does not say this will be invalidated in 300 years or as soon as someone uses it to commit a crime.

1970 population 203,392,031, 2010 population 315,249,902 do the math

No Steve, i think it is because they have a life and better things to do. 12 posts dude, really!

Steve, thank you for your comment. I am glad to see a man mention this, I have wanted to bring this up since the gun violence debate started, but didn't want to get attacked for male-bashing!

Why is it that men, especially young men are so filled with rage and insecurity that guns give them something that the rest of family and society can not provide? Power, safety, control, or just desperation. We live in very difficult times to raise children. Parents that need to work may not always be able to provide the love, attention and security that kids desperately need. Once kids get to the peer pressure age many of them are subsituting the need to belong and be loved with the brotherhood of gangs, which brings the pressure to be violent.

In the mass shootings the opposite seems true. The shooters come from well-off families where the needs are provided for yet, they are rejected by their peers and are loners and outcasts. I think the biggest thing missing is the community that we used to all get input from when we were kids. Neighbors used to feel comfortable correcting us, just as they yelled at their own kids. Most of us played outside all day and weren't glued to cell phones and video games.

There was also less pollution, chemical contamination and hormone laden and genetically engineered food, plus less medication. Environmental factors are very rarely addressed, but the combination of trace amounts of pesticides, growth hormones and water laced with everyones medications that have been flushed down the toilet and CANNOT be removed by our water treatment plants, can cause great disruption to developing minds and boys are particularly susceptible to the synergistic effects of these chemicals. They are also more likely to become schizophrenic, an illness that manifests itself in the late teens and early twenties. Having guns readily available to these susceptible people is a nightmare waiting to happen!

Hey Silverton, Do you know your ABC's

6-21

Melissa-1479364

Thank you for your response, no one else would to that question, they just want to stand behind the position of not my fault ...don't tread on me...and other paranoid rants to side track or derail the main issue of why this is affecting males and not females. It tells me how disassociated they are from the social aspects of community, and what social responsibility is.

The officials wonder how this incident happened - translate, they wonder how the student got the gun near the school and was able to shoot in on school grounds. I work in school security in another location; I can tell you how the hand gun happened to be used by a student on a school campus.

The shooting happened outside of the school building ("...in the courtyard of Price Middle School..."). There was some irresponsible fool helping the student who did the shooting, from the outside. It may have even been an irresponsible parent who brought the gun to the kid. [Oh yes! Don't tell me, "no". I have experience with just such matters.] I was on location at one school last year where two parents would show up regularly at the school and come near and goad their two sons to gang together and beat up other students. Pretty soon we had police officers coming to the school every day to be on the watch for these two parents.

bipolar echo

Look at the other treads...you see that I stick with one and not jump to the next if I don't like what I'm being told. You want to debate...Ok I'm all for it. But these people like to make statements and then ditch....Move to the next and do the same.

I do have a life....Thank you very much for your concern.

Desertmo, SickOfPolitics2 - I lived in Arizona for 8 years when I was in the Air Force and during that time we had more gang related shootings and killings than all the school related shootings put together the last 4 years. You want to know how to solve the problem it's simple, bring manufacturing back into are nation and bring wages up to equal the cost of living.

Example: My father raised a family of 4 from 1950 to 1969 on $1.54 to $2.40 an hour or $3203.20 - $4992.00 a year. My father had to quit school in the 3rd grade to help support his brothers and sisters because Grandpa was ill, he had a "trade school education". Mom was a homemaker and dinner was on the table at 0430 everyday when dad got home from work, we went on vacation every year as a family, had a house paid for, owned a car.

Now fast forward to today's society, cost of live has gone up 1200% but wages have only increased 400%. $7.50 to $10.00 an hour or $15,600.00 - $20,800.00 a year. Both parents have to work to have anything, no family life cause parents with kids work opposite shifts to save money on daycare or work 2 jobs trying to get ahead which causing stress in the family which leads to divorce and split families. No parenting leads to troubled kids and school shootings like we have been seeing.

Wake up Congress you are the ones that have erroded the US economy so your corporate supports can have their way. America voters need to wake up and vote everyone on Capital Hill out of office.

Irvmani

Ok where did I post the 2nd amendment? Gun Vs. arms? Do you have a post your wanting me to address? Or are you just puffing up?

look at the US census. gov chart prepared by Dave Manuel for the US census.

The chart cover the periods from 1910-2010....I stand by my numbers. I did the math. mmmkay ;-)

I guess Wayne LaPierre was right. Armed school resource officer, less impact. Okay, anti-gun nuts, what's your rationalization for this one?

One of the issues we should be asking ourselves is why this is a male thing and not a female thing.

Don't go giving me the weaker sex thing...Or girls don't like guns....It's a cop out.

Steve, perhaps you should stop riding cowgirl style. While many of these shootings are done by males, there is also a huge percentage of murders or attempted murder with poison and these are done by women. Ask me how I know, well I will tell you. My father was murdered by the use of poison, in fact it was the heavy metal poisoning and if myself and my family had not insisted on testing for it this women would have gotten away with murder. For the second time no less.

So take off those assless chaps, and stay away from the Golden Rail....Women murder plenty

Well that didn't take long...for someone to bring up Bush and "his" so-called "illegal" wars that Democrats voted for approval for (like Obama's Libyan invasion was "legal" or something.. or his 300% escalation in drone attacks or something...tsk tsk the hypocrisy of the liberal Democrat left). Or in the case of John Kerry, voting for them before he voted against them. Hilarious. Pathetic, but hilarious. Like watching Honey Boo Boo or whatever that TLC reality show is called.

But don't worry liberals...Big Sis is buying up millions of rounds of ammunition to keep them out of the hands of we 99 percenters who are legal, law abiding gun owning citizens. You should feel MUCH safer in a year or so when nobody can go to Wally World and buy bullets and shotgun shells anymore. [eye roll]

And I have a question: where was all this anti-gun mass hysteria knee-jerking over the last, say, 30 years with inner city gang violence and drug violence, huh? Maybe we should ask the good Democrats running "anti-gun" cities like Chicago and DC to help answer, huh? [cricket chirp]

fishman-1985527

Sorry for your loss.

Personal attacks are prohibited by Newsvine Please review Policies & Rules for posting on Newsvine. Those actions if repeated can get you suspended permanently from Newsvine.

they just want to stand behind the position of not my fault ...don't tread on me...and other paranoid rants

The rants of the antis are no different than other rants or other restrictions that could be imposed. Antis want to punish the law abiding citizens for the few crazies. That would be the same as FMVSS saying every car has to have a breathalyzer devise to be road worthy and driver would need to blow before starting the car because a few(in percentage) drivers decide to drive drunk.

You can rant and rave about your polls and numbers all you want but they are nothing but numbers. Any poll or figures can be skewed to support the pollsters agenda. Even when state or fed officals give out numbers they can be skewed to make things look better or worse than they usually are. One can also find numbers and ratios that show the opposite. Aske the Fed why there are no national records of dogs shot by cops. There isn't even good national data on the number of people shot by police. There is no real way of telling if these types of shooting are increasing

Where does it say get your guns....This is for specific types of weapons and only a tax credit at best for legally obtained weapons. It is an IRS code. Not an enforcement code.

It is an IRS code. Not an enforcement code

Well geez numbnuts how do you think the feds took down Capone....IRS Codes. How have the feds been taking down the medical marijuana dispensaries in CA... Well again IRS codes. The feds use the IRS all the times. I bet they will make you jump through hoops to finally get your "Tax Credit" and most likely cost half the savings in CPA fees by the time it's down. Yeah I love to hear those words "I'm the Tax Man and I'm hear to Help"

fishman-1985527

Well geez numbnuts

Nice verbiage.

Hope you feel better soon.

But don't worry liberals...Big Sis is buying up millions of rounds of ammunition to keep them out of the hands of we 99 percenters who are legal, law abiding gun owning citizens. You should feel MUCH safer in a year or so when nobody can go to Wally World and buy bullets and shotgun shells anymore. [eye roll]

It's SS that is buying the 1.2 billion bullets in six months alone, it is Homeland Security (DHS). The fed has used SS and NOAA's lower ammo purchases to explain why they need the ammo but have side stepped the major purchase by DHS with no excuse in why they need the 1.2 Billion Hollow point bullets

The NRA supported the McClure-Volker firearms decontrol bill of 1986, and worked to reduce the powers of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF

Well After what the ATF, FBI, etc did at Ruby Ridge and Waco Texas they needed to have their wings clipped. They had many opportunities to grab David Koresh as he was in town all the time due to owning a business there and jogged on the road all the time. The could have also used the Texas Rangers (police) to pick him for his one shotgun violation, it was 1/4" short. But no they had to make up for their embarrassment of Ruby Ridge. They then also along with the Clintons committed Posse Comitatus by using Delta Force on the final raid and murder of the branch davidians. Mount Carmel had been a community for decades

And still no handwringing by the left over the media's excercising of their freedom of speech causing these copycat shootings! Anyone who thinks all these school shooting happened without the media hyping them is insane. When will they stop the glamorization all in the name of getting what they are after, a ban and more hysteria over their reporting.

Hope you feel better soon.

I feel just fine, well as well as can be expected. In fact I do feel abit better today as we finally got approval to be armed on our security detail. This way we now don't have to cower and wait the 15 minutes or so for cops to arrive. Atleast now we can defend ourselves. Listen the crooks can have the trucks or equipment as it is not worth a life, (well to me) but try telling that to the criminals that will kill you for a pair of shoes or $100 in the cash register.

What Another shooting in a GUN FREE ZONE!!!!

What i'm not seeing here (besides all of the news stories concerning stabbings that certainly have taken place) is the fact that guns have been in our society for the last 200 + years yet all of this violence appears to have cropped up in the last 10 years or so at least concerning schools and children. Obviously this wasn't caused by guns since they have always been a factor yet it seems everyone is holding the guns responsible.It seems to me this began after Columbine and the crazies are feeding on one another as copy cats.

Gun control legislation started in 1934. This is not a 10 yr. old issue and it is not an irrational emotional issue. This is an 80 yr. old issue that has grown completely out of hand. How many more mass murders of innocent young school children must we endure before we finally take positive action?

Hey libs we also have rights. The Bill of Rights was designed to protects the citizens of the Republic from an overbearing and excessive federal government. It was designed not just for liberals but for all Americian Citizens.

John Q...when did this become a lib discussion, exclusively? People have thoughts and opinions...it's not a biased Board. Backing up...Cheers to Melissa. Steve addressed "Freedom Over Sympathy" and I believe he made his point. Dirp needs some realism regarding firearms. And Silverton and Steve both...do either of you have strong ties to European relatives, during WWII? Or just relying on stats and what you've read? My (and) my husband's mothers were/are both from Germany. Mine was born in '26 and his in '33. My mom told me stories about Hitler, his fanaticism, and the "normal" people. The "normal" people hated and feared him. Mom had a prominent family, and when she was 14 her dad was taken...they never saw him again. My hb's mom was young, but remembers spending most of it in a basement apartment. And fishman...I feel your loss. Get over it, because you'll never prove it. My" lovely" (hack-cough) sis-in-law downed her uncle, my dad and my brother. Inherited everything, from all of them. Will it ever be proven? Nope. Let it go. And yeah...I know she didn't get it all because she's an angel...she cheated on my brother before, during (and now) after their marriage. He (my brother, once told me) just didn't want to start all over again, so he said "fine", and the Doctor's wife likes her lifestyle and doesn't have to put up with him in bed, so it all worked out. Except for the beech not taking care of my brother and letting him die of neglect. Let it go...evil does what it does, and you can't fight it or be there 24/7...esp. if you have your Own family to take care of...let it go. God will have His day with people like this.

Meanwhile...prayers for...yet...another innocent child...to the child, family and friends. There are yet thousand more comments to read, but it's oo depressing. I just hope that nutsy Mitzy gal doesn't comment...she seems to think Obama is actually ordering and orchestrating the killing of children in order to push his proposals...she's NUTS...steer clear of a crazy-Mitzy, people. Meanwhile, g'night, sleep well and sweet dreams. **salute**

I'm thankful the child is alright. No one was Killed.

An armed security guard saved so many lives at that school.

Make gun owners pay for insurance on all their guns, just like I do on all my cars. There needs to be a disincentive to amassing an arsenal of weapons that gets stolen or gets distributed as part of an estate. I’m a responsible driver, and I pay car insurance on more cars than my household can drive at one time. Save thing should apply to a responsible gun owner. You want a gun, great! Pay a small amount to insure it. You want 100 guns, great! Pay much more insurance on that. When I consider buying a car, I must decide if I’m also willing to pay for insurance on it. Gun ownership should be like that as well.

The insurance money should go to a fund to pay medical bills for gunshot victims. If collectively, we all behave ourselves, insurance costs go down for everyone. If we all go crazy, shooting everyone in sight, insurance costs skyrocket for everyone. Many without health insurance are injured by gunfire, and the insured community ultimately pays those fees. Gun insurance will correct this, much as car insurance does for the car owning community.

Then, every year, take your guns for an accountability inspection. Can’t find your gun? You get a huge fine, or jail time for repeat offenders. Crime committed with a gun registered to you? Jail time for you and whoever committed the crime. You are found with an unregistered gun? Jail time and/or fine.

If you are a responsible gun owner, take responsibility for your guns. Just like I do with my cars.

Exactly, they would have to take me down w/ elephant tranquilizers to stop me from getting to my son.

When we outlaw elephant tranquilizers only outlaws will have elephant tranquilizers...

Kepp it up MSNBC. It furthers your agenda AND makes the wanna-be punks see their name in print. You are part of the problem!!

You got it Larry..thats REAL NEWS!!! I'm glad that someone has finally started to smarten up!!

All,

You do know in every country which has gun control, crime has more then doubled, including murders. Just look at our own states which has tried to institute some form of it, crime has not slowed down...

CB: Tell that to New York, Australia, Scotland.

Or, you can look at the effects of eliminating a gun ban (thank you SCOTUS) on Chicago.

Look at deaths while the ban was in place and after it was removed.

50% reduction while the ban was in place, 16% increase in the two years after it was removed.

But, of course, the NRA would say that at ban would have no effect.

dirp,

You need to look at studies done alittle more closely, try looking at one done by a 'Liberal Law School School'... Google, Harvard Law School Study by Kates & Mauser...

The 2nd amendment has nothing to do with protecting your person with a weapon being a "right" in modern context. See Below, most of you will be reading this for the first time.

The 2nd Amendment:

As passed by the Congress:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

As ratified by the States and authenticated by Thomas Jefferson, Secretary of State:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

As you can clearly see. The amendment ,as stated, is in regards to the STATE MILITIAS during the revolutionary war. It was first passed in the Bill of Rights prior to revolution and later in constitution afterwards, when the threat of the British retaliating was real (which happened in 1812) during and after the time of the revolution. This was prior to the Federally funded military. This was when citizens made up the army.

For further validation that the 2nd Amendment is archaic and in no way applies to modern society, please read the 3rd amendment below:

No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.

As you can see the amendment directly following the beloved 2nd, is just as archaic and irrelevant to modern society as the 2nd is.

Both the 2nd and 3rd amendments address citizens rights during a time of war and revolution, which just isn't the case anymore. We don't have a tyrannical empire invading us to steal our land and liberty at the moment now do we?

Lee, you are correct that we are not invaded by Great Britain anymore. If you look at the First Amendment our Government is looking to infringe that too, by the movie and gaming industries. Are you suggesting we should change our Constitution for a more peaceful society. The way I see it the world is full nuts and you could not put enough laws into place to fix it all. Even if you did the criminals will still find a way to kill. It is the law of human nature.

Read some history books and then get back to me about how the constitution is archaic. It was meant to protect us from our government as well. Have you ever read the Patriot act and how it violates our rights?

Stupid statement. If we start holding the gun owners and/or parents responsible, maybe people would be more reponsible with the guns they do own.

Bart, You listen. The NRA has never said go out and buy more guns. They stand by your right to do so by the 2nd Amendment IF you want one.

But hey, why miss a chance to stay something stupid, right?

Amen. If a Concealed weapon holder who is trained on a firearm would have seen someone start shooting they could have ended that piece of garbage. High five.

I have noticed that if you are a

republican or conservative

own guns

a member of the NRA

and have a whole lot of money

that you are an evil violent person and you want to see children slaughtered in the streets!

this is not true........................

there are lots and lots of very rich democrats and liberals

there are lots and lots of democrats and liberals that own guns

there are lots and lots of liberals and democrats that are members of the NRA !!!!!gasp!!!!!

its true , so make up your minds do you want to stop gun violence or do want to (ban) all the guns that will not stop gun violence. ? and then you will have gun violence of the likes you have never seen .

Yea the NRA stands by your right in the 2nd Amendment by trampling the 1st Amendment blaming Video Games. I don't believe in banning either of them but the NRA needs to check themselves before pointing fingers, and the idiots passing laws are there cause bigger idiots voted them in. Bottom line police your own damn kids and government doesnt need to get involved and we just might still have a few freedoms left by the time i die. Until then let Obama run your lives for 4 more undeserved years.

To Cwater:..Listen to this statement..If we started holding the CAR owners and /or parents responsible,then maybe they would be more responsible with the cars they DO own and keep them from being stolen and crimes comitted with them..

People like you say... "Disarm the public and everything will be fine".

Disarm American's -- and join the 'Worker's Paradise'. Help support the worthless slackers and parasites with all your tax money. They need more time to commit crime on your dime.

kilroy63: I noticed you did not continue your theme, indicating that the Republicans do want to see children dead in the streets, while Democrats do not?

Nice...MSNBC is so liberal-minded that every post I make magically disappears, but the guy above me (@dirp) can make comments like the following and the moderators don't even blink an eye.

I noticed you did not continue your theme, indicating that the Republicans do want to see children dead in the streets, while Democrats do not?

That's sweet of MSNBC to let me edit my post for up to 3 minutes before they delete it for not agreeing with their liberal agenda.... :)

no dirp, thats what the democrats or the left or the liberals keep saying, your just twisting what i said and you know it. you know if you were really concerned about children being killed at schools or anywhere else you would be concentrating on that instead of banning guns from honest citizens, which will not do a damn thing to stop gun violence. you know it , i know it, and a whole lot of other people know it. the point is WHY? is obummer and his party boys jumping all over this? with the lame ass excuse its for our children, if thats the case he would be looking into armed guards in school , which works a hell of a lot better than more stupid ink writing on a piece of paper. i guess it just does not fit obummers agenda. we need to impeach his worthless ass..

Maybe - but somehow making near to impossible to those wackos to get hold of one - or two - or three might be a **** good start.

Wait, what are you talking about!!! You mean you actually want the SCHOOLS to do their job and provide a SAFE environment where students aren't BULLIED by other students and FEAR for their lives? Thats crazy talk!

Yes don't ban guns. Let us remain the country with the most death of children due to guns in the western world. Let us remain the country that regulates driving more than guns. Let us remain the country where healthcare costs more than bullets (saving lives is more expensive than killing).

Let us be the country the NRA wants -- and shoot each other.

So true and so unhelpful. No law will stop the lawless but can you imagine how the criminals and mentally unstable would get the weapons if the manufacture, sale and distribution of these type of weapons and ammunition were banned. If Justice Scalia is right and the Constitution is a dead document then the Second Amendment prohibits all gun regulation (fully automatic weapons, RPG’s) or it only allows single shot muzzle loading muskets and rifles.

Thinking about how when it comes to the Second Amendment, the First Amendment doesn't apply (if you speak out after gun violence, you're apparently not allowed to say so or there will be calls for firings/deportations/etc -- see Bob Costas, Piers Morgan -- and other "off with your head" screeds) led me to this realization:

The First Amendment isn't absolute. Free speech ends when it can lead to harm to others (the old "you're not allowed to yell fire in a crowded theater" example).

So why is the Second Amendment absolute, at least by the NRA nutjobs' interpretation of "it means everyone can have any kind of gun they want and carry it anywhere they want and have any kind of ammo/clip/etc. they want? It seems to me that just as the First Amendment doesn't allow the right of people to hurt someone else (yell "fire" in a crowded theater), so too the Second Amendment doesn't mean you just automatically get to carry a deadly weapon.

And for all you who say "it's not the weapon, it's the person carrying it" blah blah blah, how many times do we have to see people use guns just because they have them and it's easy? People used to walk away from trouble, or punch the other person, but now it's "shoot anyone for anything."

Years ago in Michigan, a young man acting silly took off his clothes and ran outside, and hid behind a bush when he heard people coming down the street. One of said people had a gun, drew it, and ordered the person to come out from behind the bush. The kid did and ran off down the street, at which point he was shot in the butt. What POSSIBLE threat is a naked man running away from you??? But by God, the guy with the gun just HAD to shoot.

Or there's this one. I about spit my morning coffee out the other day when I saw the story about some woman talking to Congress, I think it was, about how women should be able to have assault weapons in their homes because when hordes of armed men break in and threaten them and their children, they need to defend themselves? For Pete's sake, exactly how often does that happen? I know plenty of women who live alone and don't need to live in fear of people breaking into their home. On the other hand, a certain woman WITH assault weapons, allegedly because she was a single woman with a son and thought she needed them to protect herself, ended up with the weapons used against her and 25 other people (Newtown, of course). No law in the world would have kept that from happening, short of a ban on those weapons (which is my whole point) because she had the guns legally and her nutcase son got ahold of them, but what fool with a mentally disturbed son keeps assault weapons in her house???

GOP. How about parents taking more responsibility in raising their children. How about parents being more active in their schools and knowing what's going on. How about taking down the stupid "Gun free zone" signs that advertise the fact it's a target rich environment. How about puting trained security personnel in the schools like we do in virtually all government buildings.

Let's do what the parent of one of the victims at the Sandy school suggested. Treat the illness...society, and not the symptoms.... gun violence.

Let's also ask Cops to give up their guns, huh? Don't they kill more people than necessary? Don't they kill more people than anyone outside the military?

Let's ask the military to give up their guns too, while we are at it.

--- fools

Oh, brother!

Hollywood, take a chill pill. Most of the guns in Atlanta can be found within a 3 square mile radius of that neighborhood.

There is absolutely no rational argument for ANY kind of gun control etc. that would stop crazy (over medicated) people from hurting and killing others

Of course there is. It's already illegal to own missiles, tanks, machine gunes etc. To add assault weapons and high capacity magazines to that list doesn't prevent anyone from buying weapons to protect themselves or to hunt.

Let's also ask Cops to give up their guns, huh? Don't they kill more people than necessary? Don't they kill more people than anyone outside the military?

Let's ask the military to give up their guns too, while we are at it.

There's an average of around 200 deaths a year on average by police shootings while there were 30,740 gun deaths in 2010. Surely you're not comparing police and military personnel carrying out their duties with people that walk into a school and massacre 20 babies are you?

The problem here is communication of right and wrong and holding someone responsible for their actions. Parents communicating with their children, Teachers communicating to their students, Children in school communicating to parents and teachers. Someone new that kid had a gun or knew he had intentions of bad behavior. Friend, Family Member, or even teacher. If any one of those had communicated to any of the other. This incident wouldn't even be on the web for discussion. Or it could have been on here displaying a different headline. Like student hero turns in friend with gun, Or teacher discovers student with bad intentions carries gun to school, Or even Family member alerts parents sibling planning to take gun to school. With good communication the good scenarios are endless. With bad communication you get 14-year-old boy shot at Atlanta middle school, officials say

I'm tired of the old bromide:"if you can't yell 'fire' in a crowded movie theatre, then you should be able to regulate guns". Yelling "fire" in a theatre is an abuse of the 1st amendment, just like brandishing a firearm is an abuse of the 2nd. Owning so called "assault" weapons or high capacity magazines is NOT an abuse of the 2nd amendment. Violating existing gun laws is an abuse; exercising your RIGHTS is NOT! Fortunately, no one lost their life in this incident, thanks to an armed school resource officer. I guess Wayne LaPierre was right!

Quebec canadaRestored

Maybe - but somehow making near to impossible to those wackos to get hold of one - or two - or three might be a **** good start.

This is already in place, it has been so for a long time, it is more evidence that the attempts to control objects don't work, if someone wants an object, they will get it regardless of the laws. NICS checks have been around for a long time, we don't need more, just better communication between agencies.

Actually, the world has gotten so bad that I'm really hoping the end is nigh. I don't think I'd like to see another 20 years that look like this. I have to stop reading the news.

I agree Lee.

Actually, the world has gotten so bad that I'm really hoping the end is nigh. I don't think I'd like to see another 20 years that look like this. I have to stop reading the news.

Most people that depressed hope for their end not the end of everything. Those that wish the end for everyone are the people who try to take out as many as they can when they go. Maybe you need therapy.

Boomer,

I have 34 firearms. I know what is best for home protection. I know what is best for personal protection outside the home. I know what is best when out in the woods backpacking the Appalachian Trail. I would be considered a top notch gun owner. The bulk of my firearms are housed in 2 1,500lbs safes with biometric and numeric locks. I have an identical third safe for my ammo. Those along with my reloading equipement and supplies are housed in a steel reinforced concrete room within my house. I also have quick access safes in my office and the master bedroom and closet. I do not agree with registration of firearms. It's a long shot, but that would make it easier for the govt to target and confiscate certain weapons. How about we start enforcing the more than 30,000 laws on the books and start giving long mandatory prison sentences for people who use guns in crimes?

Let talk common denominators. It goes without saying that gun related violence is accomplished with a gun. That being said! What about the real common denominator no one or the media wants to acknowledge in the open!

Read!

Want to stop the violence? Here is the answer:

Eric Harris age 17 (first on Zoloft then Luvox) and
Dylan Klebold aged 18 (Colombine school shooting in Littleton, Colorado),
killed 12 students and 1 teacher, and wounded 23 others, before killing
themselves. Klebold’s medical records have never been made available to the
public.

Jeff Weise, age 16, had been prescribed 60 mg/day
of Prozac (three times the average starting dose for adults!) when he shot his
grandfather, his grandfather’s girlfriend and many fellow students at Red Lake,
Minnesota. He then shot himself. 10 dead, 12 wounded.

Cory Baadsgaard, age 16, Wahluke (Washington state)
High School, was on Paxil (which caused him to have hallucinations) when he
took a rifle to his high school and held 23 classmates hostage. He has no
memory of the event.

Chris Fetters, age 13, killed his favorite aunt
while taking Prozac.

Christopher Pittman, age 12, murdered both his
grandparents while taking Zoloft.

Mathew Miller, age 13, hung himself in his bedroom
closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

Jarred Viktor, age 15, stabbed his grandmother 61
times after 5 days on Paxil.

Kip Kinkel, age 15, (on Prozac and Ritalin) shot
his parents while they slept then went to school and opened fire killing 2
classmates and injuring 22 shortly after beginning Prozac treatment.

Luke Woodham, age 16 (Prozac) killed his mother and
then killed two students, wounding six others.

A boy in Pocatello, ID (Zoloft) in 1998 had a
Zoloft-induced seizure that caused an armed stand off at his school.

Michael Carneal (Ritalin), age 14, opened fire on
students at a high school prayer meeting in West Paducah, Kentucky. Three
teenagers were killed, five others were wounded..

A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went
psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and
almost murdering another.

Andrew Golden, age 11, (Ritalin) and Mitchell
Johnson, aged 14, (Ritalin) shot 15 people, killing four students, one teacher,
and wounding 10 others.

TJ Solomon, age 15, (Ritalin) high school student
in Conyers, Georgia opened fire on and wounded six of his class mates.

Rod Mathews, age 14, (Ritalin) beat a classmate to
death with a bat.

James Wilson, age 19, (various psychiatric drugs)
from Breenwood, South Carolina, took a .22 caliber revolver into an elementary
school killing two young girls, and wounding seven other children and two
teachers.

Elizabeth Bush, age 13, (Paxil) was responsible for
a school shooting in Pennsylvania

Jason Hoffman (Effexor and Celexa) – school
shooting in El Cajon, California

Jarred Viktor, age 15, (Paxil), after five days on
Paxil he stabbed his grandmother 61 times.

Chris Shanahan, age 15 (Paxil) in Rigby, ID who out
of the blue killed a woman.

Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL,
killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet,
butcher knife and mechanic’s file, then attacked his younger brothers and
sister.

Neal Furrow (Prozac) in LA Jewish school shooting
reported to have been court-ordered to be on Prozac along with several other
medications.

Kevin Rider, age 14, was withdrawing from Prozac
when he died from a gunshot wound to his head. Initially it was ruled a
suicide, but two years later, the investigation into his death was opened as a
possible homicide. The prime suspect, also age 14, had been taking Zoloft and
other SSRI antidepressants.

Alex Kim, age 13, hung himself shortly after his
Lexapro prescription had been doubled.

Diane Routhier was prescribed Welbutrin for
gallstone problems. Six days later, after suffering many adverse effects of the
drug, she shot herself.

Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a
University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His
family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family’s
Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

Kara Jaye Anne Fuller-Otter, age 12, was on Paxil
when she hung herself from a hook in her closet. Kara’s parents said “…. the
damn doctor wouldn’t take her off it and I asked him to when we went in on the
second visit. I told him I thought she was having some sort of reaction to
Paxil…”)

Gareth Christian, Vancouver, age 18, was on Paxil
when he committed suicide in 2002,

(Gareth’s father could not accept his son’s death
and killed himself.)

Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung
herself in her family’s detached garage.

Matthew Miller was 13 when he saw a psychiatrist
because he was having difficulty at school. The psychiatrist gave him samples
of Zoloft. Seven days later his mother found him dead, hanging by a belt from a
laundry hook in his closet.

Kurt Danysh, age 18, and on Prozac, killed his
father with a shotgun. He is now behind prison bars, and writes letters, trying
to warn the world that SSRI drugs can kill.

Woody ____, age 37, committed suicide while in his
5th week of taking Zoloft. Shortly before his death his physician suggested
doubling the dose of the drug. He had seen his physician only for insomnia. He
had never been depressed, nor did he have any history of any mental illness
symptoms.

A boy from Houston, age 10, shot and killed his
father after his Prozac dosage was increased.

Hammad Memon, age 15, shot and killed a fellow
middle school student. He had been diagnosed with ADHD and depression and was
taking Zoloft and “other drugs for the conditions.”

Matti Saari, a 22-year-old culinary student, shot
and killed 9 students and a teacher, and wounded another student, before
killing himself. Saari was taking an SSRI and a benzodiazapine.

Steven Kazmierczak, age 27, shot and killed five
people and wounded 21 others before killing himself in a Northern Illinois
University auditorium. According to his girlfriend, he had recently been taking
Prozac, Xanax and Ambien. Toxicology results showed that he still had trace
amounts of Xanax in his system.

Finnish gunman Pekka-Eric Auvinen, age 18, had been
taking antidepressants before he killed eight people and wounded a dozen more
at Jokela High School – then he committed suicide.

Asa Coon from Cleveland, age 14, shot and wounded
four before taking his own life. Court records show Coon was on Trazodone.

Jon Romano, age 16, on medication for depression,
fired a shotgun at a teacher in his New York high school.

Quit being a mouthpiece for the Socialist Elite!

"Liberalism is the art of standing on your head, then telling everyone around you that they're
upside down." -- Jim Quinn

Dawgdan, Congrats on your resposible gun safety and responsibility. I also have mine in safes. I do disagree with you on registration. Too many weapons are poorly secured and stolen. In my opinion, register, and if your weapon was stolen from an unsecured area you also bought the crime. Both criminally and financially

Dawgfan,

Thanks for your comments. You might be one of the few commenting that has any common sense at all. Most of these posters are out of control with their views and remarks.

no dawg, we will not enforce any gun laws, we will simply write more until they work on their own. the nra is at fault for any and all gun deaths. gun owners are all criminals and as such should be locked up and the key thrown away. anyone stupid enough to own a gun must be an uneducated, no brain hill billy redneck from out in the middle of nowhere. did i get all of that anti gun crowd. if i forgot some please let me know i will get it on the next post. first off we have no idea 1 who the shooter is, 2 what the weapon was or 3 what might be the motive. yet we are willing to blame everyone, but the shooter without any of the facts. seems a little i don't know racial might be the word.

Jahaus, I didn't read your post, but I think you should put a hard cover on that thing.

mark d i guess we can apply that to your car as well right? if your car is stolen and someone uses it in a robbery or kills someone you are responsible for not having it secured. sounds great.

Well, you do sound like a responsible gun owner, and I applaud your diligence. I wish that the majority of the rest of gun owners were like you, but my guess is they are not. We, too, keep ours in a safe that would be very, very hard for burglars to even find - but there are two shotguns that are not; one upstairs and one downstairs with shells up high but right with them. That is our home protection along, of course, with ADT.

I agree that crimes committed with guns should garner the criminal with lengthy terms, and actually they do. It's just we have to let them out so early due to overcrowding from locking up so many folks who are in for drug (not selling) possession, which I do not agree with. If we're going to let "freedom ring," then since it's not illegal to smoke (killer) and it's not illegal to drink (can be a killer), then if someone wants to put drugs in their bodies, so be it.

Back to registration starting now, it would be a good thing. And, of course, law enforcement would know where they are. That's the purpose. And if they were legally registered, then why would anyone want to confiscate them? Please tell me you're not one of those "the government is going to get me" folks or "I need 50 guns because of the coming revolution." You don't sound that fringe.

Jahaus:

Thanks for taking the time to gather this information and pen it. Pharmaceuticals and alcohol are a pass - just try prying the glass out of some of these good ole' boys hands. They'll cave into somebody else's right to own a gun, but don't touch their drug of choice.

Boomer,

No I'm not one of those "the govt is coming". I own weaopns from the 1600's up through the revolution, to the Civil War, on to WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Dessert Storm, and Variants of weapons found in our two most recent conflicts. They span from dueling pistols, flint locks, wheel locks, to multi barrel pepper boxes, to semi-auto pistols and rifles/shotguns, to an M1918, M16 and a civy version of the M107 with a suppressor built into the barrel. I like to collect. I target shoot, and I competition shoot. I also carry for protection.

Dawgfan

I agree with you about enforcing all of the laws but some of these nitwits that holler for gun control are the ones who cry inhumane and cruel punishment when it comes to punishing those responsible for the crimes committed with guns.

Some people just can't understand that it is the criminal that poses the danger not the weapon. I know of a case that happened in Douglasville GA where a bunch of young adults actually kicked to death another young man. This was an innocent young victim that did not stand a chance. But noone wanted to outlaw feet, shoes or boots. I realize beatings do not compare to shootings but ask your selves just how many crimes are commited without guns and result in the same way..... death.

Dawg, my husband is a collector, too; but it's mostly Parker shotguns and whatever Colt has manufactured. Making no judgments here, but you are "allowed" to have an M16? I thought they were the military rifles carried during "my era" war - Vietnam.

And I failed to say the most important thing. My sympathies to all families who have loved ones injured or killed by this or any type of violence. Don't understand what has been happening with such frequency over the last couple of decades re these shootings. Here in my part of the world recently a man shot and killed his wife and her child by a former husband. He didn't kill himself, but ran. However, they caught him. He will probably be allowed to plead it down to 2nd degree or something, but ought to get a needle in the arm. Yeah, I'm a liberal, but have no problem with executing that type of person whether it's a deterrent or not.

Crazy people and evil people kill people and there's no cure for either, unfortunately.

Right on Lee! Just read Jahaus.

Thanks for your comments. You might be one of the few commenting that has any common sense at all. Most of these posters are out of control with their views and remarks

It's amazing how intelligent someone who shares your views is and how stupid anyone with a different opinion is.

Some people just can't understand that it is the criminal that poses the danger not the weapon. I know of a case that happened in Douglasville GA where a bunch of young adults actually kicked to death another young man. This was an innocent young victim that did not stand a chance. But noone wanted to outlaw feet, shoes or boots.

You ignore that most mass murderers and school shooters have no serious criminal record. You also ignore that no ones talking about banning guns only those that allow someone to murder lots of people very quickly. Twenty children and six adults were killed in the school shooting in Rhode Island I believe. How many could someone have kicked to death before being stopped. You compare apples with watermelons.

Larry, your first post was spot on. Your second post...I'm gonna have to disagree with it. Your first was a well reasoned observation. Your second was based on cherry-picked stats and emotional argument. You are an intelligent person, try reason exclusively. It may not be emotionally satisfying, but it actually contributes to sound solutions that accomplish something.

arslp, thanks for your response. The stats I posted are just a small portion of whats happened in the last 10 or so years. The pharmaceutical corporations don't seem to think they own a piece of the blame in these killings even though its the field tested drugs they make that are the root cause. They put this poison out there like its candy. For example, some years ago Ritalin was the behavioral drug of choice for high strung kids. Since then its been realized that it destroys the child's ability to actually distinguish right from wrong in so many words. Our so called government takes so many political 'contributions' from these clowns they can't afford to side against them. Pathetic!

Boomer,

Yes, you are allowed to have automatic weapons, so long as they were manufactured prior to 1986. You also have to pay a $200 ATF Stamp Fee, provide finger prints, deep background check, interview with the ATF/FBI, have people who know you interviewed by the ATF/FBI, get the ok by your local sherrif, and not to mention having enough money to buy the things. Today you can expect to pay around $25,000 for an M16, and around $30,000 for an M1918.

Larry,

Can you tell us how this shooter was stopped? Seems the NRA Chief was right. AN ARMED SCHOOL RESOURCE OFFICER STOPPED HIM!

any gun safe that cost under 7,000 is useless. just take a circular saw around the side of it. All these little cheap safes you see only fortify the door.... the sides are just thin metal that can be cut through in about 20 minutes.

Cayeres,

That "study" is extremely suspect. Most people I know that own guns (which is most of the people I know), and myself included, have very secure gun safes that nobody knows the combination to except for themselves.

Where was this study done at? How many samples were used in their conclusions? How did they arrive at their conclusions? Without any back-up to validate their "conclusions", this study is more than likely a Liberal based conclusion sent out in the cyberworld to be stated as "fact".

Before posting such "studies" as "facts", please name sources, links and basis of facts (besides just saying it was a "Department of Justice Study"). Otherwise you seem more like your just promoting Liberal propaganda and are not to be trusted or believed.

Cayeres.......how many parents have meds, wine beer lying around not under lock and key?How many kids become drunks and drive drunk...killing or injuring someone, od on medication or become addicts who kill or hurt someone while under the influence of drugs? Maybe you have something lying around like posions for insects or something that can be used to kill a human. Geez at least Dawgfan is doing the right thing for his home and family......what about you personally what are you doing within YOUR domain to ensure your family will not kill someone? My point being .....criminals and mentally incompentent persons are the problem here.

Cayeres, Careful what you read from any of the federal governmental agencies, especially the DOJ, is part of their agenda to support what this current administration wants to accomplish and the media is in the hog trough with them.

So true SuperBrain. None of these crimes are new-been going on since the beginning of time. There has always been evil in the world and always will be. The media is just making sure it's shoved down our throats an a minute by minute basis.

Wait SuperBrain. You mean you don't want it reported? If you don't know about it then good, you don't have to deal with it, screw the kid that was shot. Well, try and block it out of your head and have a nice day.

JB...how about a fair and balanced report...for every "bad" shooting, how about hearing about a "good" shooting....never happen on pmsnbc.

So then the best way to stop violence then is to pretend it doesn't exist? How about the NRA post articles on a site where gun toting defenders of humanity step in to stop a mass murder before it happens? I fear that the reason they don't is because the number of those heros are too few and far between.

Can we get a definition of a "good shooting"? When my son hits enough traps to earn his shotgun Merit Badge that is "good shooting". If a shooting ends with bodies on the ground & pools of blood it is hard to think of it as anything but a tragedy on some level.

SuperBrain
Instant National News is really the problem. When newspapers were only form of news this stuff from halfway across the country you never even heard about, then you didnt have all these attention seeking copycatters.

Yeah, the problem isn't that children are being slaughtered. The problem is we're hearing about it.

Similar to the Karl Rove logic of repeating a lie enough times and it will become true; as long as I don't hear about kids being slaughtered then it didn't happen.

COYOTEHUNTER
JB...how about a fair and balanced report...for every "bad" shooting, how about hearing about a "good" shooting....never happen on pmsnbc.

Because the "bad" shootings happen every day; the "good" shootings happen every blue moon.

"The state must declare the child to be the most precious treasure of the people.As long as the government is perceived as working for the benefit of the children, the people will happily endure almost any curtailment of liberty and almost any deprivation. "-Mein Kampf, Adolf Hitler

The libbie left wants to take away another right from the citizens. The scary part is that the only weapons they'll get rid of are the ones held by lawful gun owners, not he criminals. Do you think crime might go up?

JB...how about a fair and balanced report...for every "bad" shooting, how about hearing about a "good" shooting....never happen on pmsnbc.

Mostly mass murders and school shootings make national news, single shootings make local news only. If a teacher shot someone threatening children it would make national news. There are thousands of acts every year of single murder that doesn't make national news. When 20 children are murdered in a school or a dozen or so massacred in a theater it makes national news. A man killing an intruder in his home doesn't. There are hundreds of murders every year to every case of legitimate self defense. You don't want balance you want them to distort the truth.

"How about the NRA post articles on a site where gun toting defenders of humanity step in to stop a mass murder before it happens? I fear that the reason they don't is because the number of those heros are too few and far between."

Actually, they do and it happens more often than you might think.

"Mostly mass murders and school shootings make national news, single shootings make local news only."

This is an article about a single shooting that made national news. It is being presented in the way that it is to promote an anti-gun agenda. If you read the article, you will note that an armed school resource officer stopped anymore violence from occuring. Also, "The wound was not considered life threatening. The teacher suffered cuts and bruises during the panic of the incident, police said." Before anyone brings the teacher into it. Wayne LaPierre and the NRA are apparently right.

Been reading the Chicago shooting stories here every day. Don't tell me that your meaning is that the President is from Chicago? That would be so stupid I won't assume...I'll give you a pass and think that you meant something else. No one is that stupid are they?

Also interesting that the "hot topic" a few months ago was how rich people were evil.

Now you don't hear much about that, since the new "agenda" is gun control.

Do people really not see they are being manipulated here?

pmsnbc is to busy looking in the mirror to see if their makeup is on right, mike b. hasn't clue,and looks down her rich nose at everything.... and joe blow, likes to hear himself speak and he thinks hes so far above everybody else.....a more bunch of worthless people i've never seen, none are journalists, just people with opinions, and you know what they say about opinions....opinions are like a$$holes, everyones got one....that includes me....

i think the point is that chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the nation and it obviously does not solve anything.

I think the point is that chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the country and also one of the highest violent crime rates. doesnt really help out the cause

Notice JB the MS/NBC shill immediately lies to us with "been reading the Chicago shooting stories everyday".

Looks like a lot of people shot(ha-ha) your sorry ignorant uneducated Libtard butt down.

Here defend MS/NBC on this shooting story.

Google; MS/NBC grieving father Sandy Hook Martin Basir doctored video.

Learn the truth about the so called "News" outlet MS/NBC and it's moronic followers like JB

Interesting that MS/NBC doesn't report the daily shooting in Chicago? Geez, I cannot figure out why?

If you were a regular reader you'd know they report those shootings regularly even though Chicago isn't in the top ten for most violent cities. They never report single shootings in Dallas, Phoenix or any other city in red states despite the fact they occur daily. I can't figure what's special about Chicago, can you?

Narrative? A kid was shot is what the story says. You are desperate to censure the news that gives guns a bad name. But you won't wish the family well, hope the kid is all right, say a prayer? You use a kid being shot to knock a news company? Here's the same story on FOX....also saying details will come later

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/01/31/school-officials-confirm-shooting-at-atlanta-middle-school/

Probably the polar opposite of the liberal who says banning guns is the answer. Both ridiculous with two extreme views that won't do much but further divide the country. The bitter, angry divided country.

ThankYouSoldiers
Probably the polar opposite of the liberal who says banning guns is the answer. Both ridiculous with two extreme views that won't do much but further divide the country. The bitter, angry divided country.

I've never heard anyone, liberal or otherwise, say "banning guns is the answer".

Question: If some politician in your town wanted to lower the speed limit from 50 to 40, would you think he was trying to take your car away from you?

People with guns kill people

Your a nut!

John John...but we have more hammers, bats, knives, etc. than guns yet guns are used in more homicides than all those weapons and other objects that could be used as weapons. The problem we have is related to guns. Guns are our problem not hammers or bats or knives. GUNS!~ Is that so hard for you to accept?

In Australia people with swords kill people. Now they are considering banning those. Where do you stop. Rocks? Sticks?

People with guns kill people? Um I have a gun and I don't kill people.

WTF is going on in this crazy ass world?

John John, the reason maggots shoot people with guns, rather than use other objects, is that the coward can do it from a distance. You need to get up close to a victim to cut his throat, or bash his head in.

Guns are a problem as are those who use them to shoot others. Its about guns, all the denial in the world, won't change the fact that if you need to deal with gun violence, and gun related murders, the gun itself has to be on the table of discussion. As does the other issues, such as mental health, and better law enforcement.

When folks want to say that gun violence, has nothing to do with guns, its just a ridiculous statement.

Gee John, John, my hubby has 2 handguns, a shotgun and 2 rifles. Not one of them has ever broke out of gun safe,loaded themselves and killed anyone, not even a squirrel, without a person using them! Are your guns some sort of new-fangled robotic guns, that don't need a user? Do you have to program them to kill, or do they their own brains? Gawrsh, what will they think up next? SMH!

Guns don't kill people....people who breath kill people.

When folks want to say that gun violence, has nothing to do with guns, its just a ridiculous statement

When folks want to say that violence has nothing to do with people, it's just a ridiculous statement.

Fixed that for ya

The problem is there are TOO many CRAZY people!!! I think they need to start doing mental testing on everyone................................

Come on Hick, you gotta read the words, before you comment.

"When folks want to say that violence has nothing to do with people, it's just a ridiculous statement"

The point being that issues such as mental health and law enforcement, (as well as a hundred other issues) need to be considered, when trying to deal with violence, especially gun violence..

The point was, obviously we all know that people kill people..WITH GUNS, as well as other objects. But, when someone says that "guns have nothing to do with gun related deaths" thats kind of denial isn't it? Its obvious it didn't go off on its own, but it was the instrument of choice to commit the murder. Therefore, it is part of the conversation. It amazes me how so many put on blinders, and say its everything BUT the gun. Violent video games, violence in movies and TV, mental health, all obviously part of the conversation.. maybe its the water we drink...Hypocracy is those who say its anything and everything, but guns.

@Cayeres

You realize the murder by firearm rates include suicide right? I'm not saying that you don't have a point that a lot of murders involve firearms but please think about this- every murder, whatever the implement used, had a person behind said implement. The most deaths caused in a mass school killing happened over 75 years ago in Michigan, 45 innocent people were murdered with an additional 58 injured, the vast majority of this was done with explosives.

America does not have a gun problem, it has a violence problem; the sad story is that even with the violent crime rate we have we are rather far from the most violent nation on the face of the earth.

.co .uk/news/article-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html
If you take a moment to scroll down to the US you can see that our homicide rate is relatively low compared to a great deal of the rest of the world.

en.wikipedia. org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate
Also, if you take raw numbers into account for all crimes you will see that the US currently has the highest total crime by country and Britain has the second highest with about half what the US does (Germany is almost tied with Britain). Consider the US population though, we have almost 314 million people compared to the UK's almost 63 million- with almost 5x their population we only have twice the crime here. Honestly, I'd say that is pretty good all things considered.
.com/graph/cri_tot_cri-crime-total-crimes

Many deadly medications are now packaged in blister packs. It cuts down on the suicide rate because it just takes longer and hence more premeditation to take them all.

Guns are a weapon of choice for remote control killing unless you have access to a drone. I realize that GUN violence has very little to do with cheese makers, but my comments are meant to apply to the makers of all dairy products.

You can remove any tool you want, you can make it harder to access, you can make it's functionality limited and you will still have people that will misuse that tool, or find another that suits the desire. Blister packs cut down on the suicide rate, but don't end suicide.

One thing is certain, my gun will never kill anyone, I don't choose to own one.

edit: @tril can I like you twice?