Why don't they fill his air vents with sleeping gas? Isn't that an obvious plan that's been used in the past?

Would not mind seeing more picture of him, just as long as they are his autopsy photos.

Annie

Probably a safe bet that he has gas masks in there. "Doomsday Prepper" for sure. But a good idea none the less.

problem is amount of gas needed to take down an adult will kill the 5 yr old...

I've seen this before, in the dictionary under crazy person.

Who the F sold him a gun... Start the banjos...

Annie-I initially thought the same thing. I am not familar with sleeping gas, but I am guessing it does take effect immediately. But even if it takes 5 seconds to work, he'll figure it out and may shoot the kid right away because he knows that "it's over." At least this is what I assume...

The Russians used a gas to subdue some terrorists a while back and killed some of the hostages with it. So gas being administered without monitoring is dangerous.

"Who sold him a gun?"

Why do you assume he went out and bought it last week? The man is a 66-yr-old combat veteran. He's likely had it since long before he lost his mind.

Looks like a lot of hate in those eyes.

Have they said what the heck he wants? Or does he just want to rant against the gov't.

Paranoid persons do Paranoid things; there are a lot of very sick mental patients running around, keep your distance, be aware and be well armed.

This idiot has a striking resemblance to Pappa Smurf!

Alabelle, you are probably right though just when he went looney tunes may be hard to gauge, loner that he was.

But unintentionally, succinctly, you have touched the heart of the debate. This man is walking around loose yet everyone knows he's not playing with a full deck AND no one took his guns away! In gunned up Alabama if Mr. Dykes weren't under siege he'd probably be able to walk in a sporting goods store and buy a couple more firearms.

Now, even the most fanatical Second Amendment defender has to be unhappy with that.

Citizen Frank Thanks for the laugh.

Annie-322924

Why don't they fill his air vents with sleeping gas? Isn't that an obvious plan that's been used in the past?

This isn't a James Bond movie, doesn't work like that in the real world, the only real option with the kid as a hostage is to wait him out, unless he sticks his head out for a second, hopefully if that happens the sniper is ready. The only objective here is to get the kid out safely.

What ever his side of the story is cannot justify kidnaping of an innocent and the of the bus driver.

The biggest problem with using gas is that it is not instant. There would be enough time for the kidnapper to realize what was happening, take his gun and kill himself and the child. It would be great if he did so in that order, but we all know he'd kill the child first.

Nungman- YES, I AM one of those "fanatical Second Amendment defenders" and YES I am absolutely disgusted that so many people speak out NOW about this man being a kook. WHERE WERE THEY when REPEATED reports to Adult Protective Services "may have" been able to stop this before it had a chance to start?

I find our entire "public mental health"(<health-HA!) system to be far more broken than LEGAL gun ownership. I am sick absolutely to death of those that are clearly violently mentally ill having more rights to "quality of life" than the rest of us! THESE and the CRIMINALS that think nothing of breaking into my home, possibly killing me and my child or worse, and YES there IS worse than death (!), THESE are exactly the people I am armed against!

Just remember, the Police don't arrive until AFTER the event, sometimes days later if there wasent time for anyone in the home to dial 911.

Another small man with a small brain and a big gun. Another brainwashed GI failing to adjust to the real world after Nam.

Dont give much creedence to a good conduct medal. They gave me one a month after I got an article 15 for drunk & disorderly.

The 5 yr old is on medication so sleeping gas could be terminal.

Uncle Bob, you have some valid points, but I think you need to go a little deeper. It isn't any single political party that has caused deep mistrust and hatred of the government. When the elections swing back the other way, which they will, the tides will just turn and the crazies will appear to be from the "other side". But why all the division and hatred? My first thought about the article above is "what happened to him in the Navy"? What did he find out, or what situation was he put in that he can't deal with in his brain now? There's also the real possibility he just simply has a mental condition that has arisen since after his days in the service....something organic...something has snapped. In no way is what he has done/is doing the right thing to do. And even as a staunch defender of the 2nd amendment, I have to say that something should have been done about this guy long ago...the signs were all there, but somewhere along the line both the people around him and the government agencies that I'm sure interacted with him over the years failed. He should not have been left to his own devices. But to blame in on any one governmental party is where you lose me. Both sides are encouraging hate and division, and THAT is where the rest of us need to stand up, fire them all, and take back our country. The government needs to be run by "real" people with "real" lives and history instead of these people who keep being groomed for the positions they are put in, and who are merely the puppets of the groups that put them there. They are winning the war of pitting us against each other and tearing apart the country.

They could give him a little nitrous oxide and he wouldn't care what was happening but that would be cheating. besides they don't know for sure the cubic foot of area required to properly administer the proper amount.

Nungman, You're exactly right. As a "Second Amendment defender", I am unhappy with it. It has nothing to do with Second Amendment rights of other citizens though. And just because he is a nut case, unless he is legally considered to be mentally unstable and a possible threat and there is reason to believe that he has a gun, it would be a violation of his Fourth Amendment rights to search him or his home for a firearm.

Once the little boy is rescued and safe, off the crazy old coot.

Somehow I don't think most people who want to protect the second amendment here would take a kid hostage.

I would say that shooting at your neighbor's truck, killing a dog, and threatening kids qualifies for unstable. So he had to kill a bus driver, traumatize all those kids and kidnap a child to take to his bunker before anyone could deem him too nuts to have a gun? This is the problem...you threaten someone or wave a gun around, you shoot at someone who isn't breaking in your house, or you otherwise show you are a danger to the public and yes, you SHOULD lose your guns. Explain why not to all the people traumatized or killed here and everyone else who has been because someone who showed signs of instability was allowed to keep guns.

why is it that soooo many people misstrust the government especialy veterans ?

hhmmm think deres something dere ?

Uncle Bob, shame on you for blaming a certain party. Especially when it clearly stated in the article that this guy was crazy and anti-government, meaning it doesn't matter what party is in control, he was going to go off. And furthermore, he is from Alabama, with a Republican run government.

Like others have pointed-out, if they are able to speak to the kidnapper and pass objects thru the long PVC pipe, what is preventing the slow introduction of some sort of gas to put him out for long enough for rescuers to get into the shelter?

Okicize Wicasa Yata Pi, sucks huh. Johnson started the Vietnam war as well. Guess you can't trust either party, right.

He looks like a mean, cantankerous old man! And he received a medal for good conduct? I guess he just blew that one.

Uncle Bob, what this guy is just bat sh!t crazy.

From the limited information available about him in the story, he sounds like he has a delusional disorder, either focusing on imagined persecution, or an exagerated sense of himself as a world savior.

Such people are necessarily Republicans or Democrats. What they are is insane, and they exist on both sides of the political spectrum.

I'm more of a liberal than a conservative. But I think all of these attempts to paint one ideological extreme or the other as being the sole habitation of crazy people is destructive and dysfunctional. I'd say it was also ridiculous, but it is hard to be lightly dismissive of a belief which does so much harm.

Uncle Bob and descrs,

nice posts except this is on both sides of the political fence, your blaming the Republicans, Libertarians, and the NRA for all the ills of the world makes you just another partisan hack trying to score political points.

Take a look at the affiliation of the shooters and their families, almost all were Democrats.

As for going door-to-door for gun confiscations, that is by far the stupidest comment I have read today, you advocate starting a civil war and killing 80 million American citizens in the name of saving lives and ending violence. Really????? It sounds like you should be one of the people that needs to be locked in an institution, and you lefties wonder why the righties don't trust you anymore?

Wow I love the way people that don't think the way YOU do become the enemy. And I am a conservative Republican and I own a gun.... But guess what Descrs. I am not a member of the NRA! You sound like you do not like America the way it is? Well then take a hike and quit lumping Republicans with crazys. Name caller! And what was Obama thinking when he put the Pacific command in the hands of an Australian today?

To those calling for summary execution of this man, I'd just note that he is seems crazy, and may be unable to see the wrongness of his actions.

If you've ever known somebody who was crazy, particularly a delusional individual, you'd realize just how sad and hopeless their lives can be, and how unable they are to discern reality.

This guy definitely needs to be locked up. But whether that should be in jail, or in a hospital, I'm not sure, which puts me in the minority.

Alabelle

"Who sold him a gun?"

Why do you assume he went out and bought it last week? The man is a 66-yr-old combat veteran. He's likely had it since long before he lost his mind.

Yeah this crackpot owned his guns all legal like. The law protects his right to own guns. The question is who protects the rest of us from people like him? No one I suppose, guess we all have to go out and arm ourselves. Then when the stress of being in constant mortal danger finally gets to us and we crack who protects the people around us...and the cycle continues

Take a look at the affiliation of the shooters and their families, almost all were Democrats.

NavyQMCS - i'm willing to bet a dollar against a moldy donut that you cannot produce any organized study to support the above claim.

I agree with you that the attempt to portray all of these shootings, kidnappings and assorted other weird and tragic crimes as the work of the Republican Party, or the NRA, is unsupportable. But so too is any contention that they are somehow an outgrowth of the Democratic Party.

We live in a big country, with over 300 million people. Occasionally one of them has some type of fuse blow-out between the ears. It happens. It is tragic. It would still happen if we were all of one party, as they are in China.

Jason: Ike started our involvement in Viet Nam. Johnson escallated it after the Gulf of Tonkin "incident".

I realize it fits MSNBC's political agenda (and a lot of other people's stereotypes) to assume Dykes is a disgruntled, anti-government Bible belt redneck survivalist. But why not limit our assumptions to what we KNOW, that being, he's an aging, mentally unstable combat veteran. The fact that he lives alone would further imply he has no family or support system to ensure he couldn't hurt himself or others (by removing his firearms among other things) or that he got the mental and/or medical help he needed.

I'm by no means defending him or trying to explain the horror he's heaping on little Ethan and his family, the Poland family and an entire community - only that if you're going to blame a "culture" along with the man, you're blaming the wrong culture.

Trying to turn this tragedy into a poster child for gun control or to vilify other people's politics is crass, simple-minded and exploitative.

The fact is there are thousands of "time bombs" just like Jimmy Lee Dykes wandering homeless on the streets of towns and cities all over this country, most suffering from substance addictions and/or PTSD.

Instead of wondering why and how an unstable, elderly, decorated war veteran owns a handgun, maybe the better question is why aren't there more avenues of assistance for veterans in trouble? If the culture of overzealous gun advocacy has ANY bearing in this tragedy, it takes a far backseat to the culture of ungratefulness and apathy toward the plight of mentally ill veterans.

My heart goes out to the family and child. I pray this comes to a happy ending.

However, it is time to outlaw shovels for digging bunkers and school busses. A new agenda for Obama.

now you see, the problem here is that this responsible gun owner apparently wasnt weel armed enough. Well. either that or there werent enough "good guys with guns" to take care of the problem. Dont worry amerikkka your secind amendment is still intact, in fact the morons are lined up to buy more guns lkike the fat slobs lined up to buy twinkees in case they stopped making them. And we spend tens of thousands every year to "educate" these pea-brains. U gotta love it! who could make this crap up?

Gee does this guy seem all together right to you? Think limiting asault weapons would have stopped this? Don't think so. Current Obama path is taking advantage of the current social situation to further his agenda versus go after the root cause issue of mainstreaming folks with mental challenges... Quite the leader for the people that Obama!

Alabelle very good perspective of this situation and the same one I had when I first commented a day or so ago. I have known a few war heroes that snapped in later years, maybe not quite as bad as this guy, but still needed help and observing. Our government has certainly failed our troops in many ways and PTSD is a serious illness effecting many. This has no more to do with a gun right than every shooting in Chicago which results in death. If they knew he had PTSD and he had made those threats the courts are to blame and not this old vet.

#1.44 DSmith - it is time to outlaw shovels for digging bunkers and school busses

A 'buss' is a kiss. Why would you want to outlaw kisses on school buses?

Does he not have any family member still living that can come and talk him into letting the child go and turning himself in?? If he truly hates the government and law enforcement than all the talk in the world is not going to work coming from them. He is truly a sick man that needs medication and counseling inside an institution.

Well, maybe someone can enlighten me as to why his gun was not taken when he shot at his neighbor's truck. Is it alright to have that kind of conduct in Alabama and still keep your guns? Even killing a dog whether it's your neighbors or not would be just cause to make a man give up his guns in many places.

Here lies the problem. We have all the paranoid 2nd amendment fanatics saying there is no need for more laws because all they have to do is enforce the existing laws and they could be right. Then you have those same fanatics screaming at the top of their lung about trampling on the 2nd amendment when they do enforce the laws which could be wrong. This nut should have been made to explain his actions with his neighbors a long time ago and his weapons put into escrow until he was determined to be sane.

Someone should have told "Grandpa Smurf" that you either have to come out of the bunker once in a while or buy a tanning booth. He's all bleached out and ashy.

YOOHOO..NBCNEWS you're kind of late..the picture of this guy been out two days now. Either catch up with the real news or fire some reporters!

After a few days down in that bunker, things would start to smell a little ripe I'd bet. People do need to perform their bodily functions after all.

I will probably get some feedback on this post. If i was in charge at that bunker the most reasonable thing i can think to do is. First i would talk to the parents,because the whole operation would be their call. First off is their any proof that the child is still alive. Next thing i would do,you know we have the ways to tell exactly where the walls of the bunker sit. I would "by hand only" dig a side tunnel to the bunker wall. If it's done nice and quite no one will know it's being dug. We have enough things to be able to hear through the wall. I would be quite and listen untill i knew he was asleep,and then make my move. The neighbors watched him working on the bunker at 2 or 3 in the morning. They should know what kind of material he used. I would do what it would take to bust a whole in the wall big enough to blow his head off. That poor child being autistic,and asparger syndrome is messed up enough. Something has to be done. That child has been away from his parents long enough. I pray to God he is alright and comes out soon.

@ #1.31

why is it that soooo many people misstrust the government especialy veterans ?

hhmmm think deres something dere ?

Why is it that soooo many people are blaming the gun, when those who are supposed to be protecting the lives of the innocent (law enforcement and/or courts) clearly failed? Why isn't he disarmed when charged with crime using a firearm? How many incidents does it take to disarm someone who is ABUSING the rights of others?

hhmmmm think deres something dere?

I realize it fits MSNBC's political agenda (and a lot of other people's stereotypes) to assume Dykes is a disgruntled, anti-government Bible belt redneck survivalist.

Alabelle, this is what the news story reports...

Dykes, 65, described by authorities and neighbors as a Vietnam veteran and survivalist with deep mistrust of the government, has communicated with hostage negotiators through a long PVC pipe.

Unless nbcnews.com which is offering this assessment, it is the local authorities, in a conservative red state.

Lets not blame nbcnews for reporting the news. That is at least as inaccurate as assuming that all gun-wielding nutcases are liberal wingnuts, or conservative cooks.

Crazy does not recognize any political affiliation.

Just goes to show some people are in serious need of cognitive behavioral therapy.

This tragedy need not have happened; I suspect his isolation prevented him from being exposed to enough positive social conditioning over the years his distorted view of the world started taking over his otherwise normally healthy psyche when he was younger.

Being exposed to war and be expected to fight in a losing one will do that to many of us, I'm afraid. And going without treatment after coming back from said war was bad, but coming home to an unsupportive public made it far worse.

Ban Dough Nuts and Coffee and get rid of the keystone cops.

dman, you have a very good point here. He may be found to be mentally insane and depending on their state laws, he might be placed in a mental institution rather than have a trial by jury.

To those calling for summary execution of this man, I'd just note that he is seems crazy, and may be unable to see the wrongness of his actions.

@ dgeding

I can poke a huge hole in that logic considering I know at least 5 people who own guns and haven't cracked....3 of them are older than this guy and they're world war 2 veterans.

You're stereotyping. Every old white guy who owns a gun is crazy in your eyes.

But he is an old guy and knows his days are numbered, can't he go out with honor, why steal a baby..

Did someone say "imagined persecution"? We've got more than enough of that right on this forum! Plus plenty of imagined threats ("They'll break into my home! Fate worse than death!").

Odd these gun clutchers don't see themselves in our Mr. Dykes, described as "a paranoid survivalist with a deep distrust of the government". Without his guns, he's just as described above: a crazy old coot. With them, well...he's already killed one good man who got in his way. And he yet might kill a boy.

Love how all you gun nuts collapse the comments of those who don't support your gun right beliefs. These are the things the proposed gun control legislation is trying to accomplish:

1. No more sales of assault style weapons that are manufactured for one purpose... to kill as many people as possible in the least amount of time as possible. What is wrong with that? Most of you nut jobs who didn't have one of these have already gone out and bought one and they are not coming after any that are already in circulation.

2. High capacity magazines of more than 10 rounds... no longer available to civilians. You don't NEED anything more than that to (1) protect your family (2) enjoy sport (3) have fun at the gun range.

3. Background checks for ALL gun purchases. Even the good-guy gun owners have no problem with this. Why should you?

4. Improve the availability of mental health care in this country. Well, isn't it obvious that this is long overdue??? What is your objection to that unless you are afraid your shrink is going to tell the world that you are nuts??!!!

NOBODY is coming after your current weapons stash! Nobody is outlawing guns! This is just common sense stuff that will help save lives over time. And tell me again, exactly what is your problem with this legislation???

We're not trying to take away anyone's right to bear arms, we're only trying to take away certain types of arms that no one has any business with anyway.

We're not trying to take away anyone's right to free speech, we're only trying to take away certain types of speech that no has any business with anyway.

We're not trying to take away anyone's right to religion, we're only trying to take away certain types of religion that no has any business with anyway.

We're not trying to take away anyone's right to a free press, we're only trying to take away certain types of free press that no has any business with anyway.

You know? It sounds really damn weird when you try to make these anti-second amendment arguments apply to the first.

It is totally false to equate Democrat dislike of Republicans in office with the right-wing hatred of Obama. I really disliked having Reagan and Bush as President,but I never,or heard any other Liberal,deny that they were not really our Presidents. Talk about rebelling and fighting the Government,or seceding from our country. All of those actions are purely right-wing methods. So while the Democratic Party is far from perfect. Treason isn't one of our faults. That belongs purely to the Republican and Libertarian right-wing parties.

It is totally false to equate Democrat dislike of Republicans in office with the right-wing hatred of Obama. I really disliked having Reagan and Bush as President,but I never,or heard any other Liberal,deny that they were not really our Presidents.

Not true, Uncle Bob. Throughout his presidency, I heard continual claims that Bush must be impeached, that he did not really win in 2000 [because of the vote counting issue in Florida], or in 2004 [because of supposed voter fraud in Ohio].

You perhaps don't remember these outcries, or classify them differently than the current claims that Obama is not a native born American Citizen.

I do not, and I voted for Obama in 2008 and again, with less enthusiasm, in 2012.

Talk about rebelling and fighting the Government,or seceding from our country. All of those actions are purely right-wing methods.

I guess that you never heard of The Weathermen, SDS, and The Black Panthers, or recall the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.

One could also cite more recent terrorist actions by such extreme environmentalist groups, such as the Earth Liberation Front, which torched a ski lodge in Vale in 1998, and is believed responsible numerous other acts of property destruction. These are hardly the actions of conservative groups.

There is a certain mindset, and it occurs on both the left and the right, which is incapable of seeing in themselves and their allies the faults they attribute to their opponents. You apparently have such a mind set. You've interjected your politics into a story which is clearly about a probably insane individual. Your assertions are, frankly, ridiculous.

Whiskey, that is just so much jive--verbal trickery devoid of logic or sense. Fact is free speech isn't absolute. The Supreme Court has defined its limits. Or you can just ask Bradley Manning. If you can get a pass to Leavenworth or wherever the private presently is being accommodated.

And what's your point, that any restriction on the sale or ownership of firearms is unconstitutional? Anyone, anywhere can buy anything?

No less a figure than former President Bill Clinton has warned that you gunnies "live in a different world". He knows this, Pres. Clinton adds, because he comes from that world. That would be O.K., for as long as it lasts in an era of $4.00 gasoline and vanished jobs you could keep your world of gun racks and road sign target practice--except that from time to time, tragically, your world intersects with mine...

http://www.nytimes.com/1996/07/26/nyregion/man-pleads-guilty-in-shooting-of-stagehand-on-midtown-street.html

As you see, Mr. Dykes isn't the first gun toting wacko from the Yahoo Belt to take an innocent life.

dman-Not true, Uncle Bob. Throughout his presidency, I heard continual claims that Bush must be impeached, that he did not really win in 2000 [because of the vote counting issue in Florida], or in 2004 [because of supposed voter fraud in Ohio].

You perhaps don't remember these outcries, or classify them differently than the current claims that Obama is not a native born American Citizen.

Again,while a few people on the Liberal side have extreme views (though those claims have a great deal of validity),I still didn't hear or read about calls for insurrection,and not to obey his orders as President. If you have any proof otherwise I'd like to see it.

dman-I guess that you never heard of The Weathermen, SDS, and The Black Panthers, or recall the 1968 Democratic Convention in Chicago.

Like I said,there were fringe elements around when I was growing up. But as you know,they were never at anytime considered main-stream in the Democratic Party.

dman-One could also cite more recent terrorist actions by such extreme environmentalist groups, such as the Earth Liberation Front, which torched a ski lodge in Vale in 1998, and is believed responsible numerous other acts of property destruction. These are hardly the actions of conservative groups.

Are you trying to say this type of group is a main-stream Democrat group? No Democratic official that I've ever heard off,accepts these people as main-stream in the Party. Again if you have proof otherwise I'd like to see it.

The problem today isn't so much that anti-government groups exist. We've always had our Nazi,Communist,KKK,Skinheads,John Bircher's,Posse Comitatus, etc,in this country. The problem is that today,there is widespread acceptance of those types of radical anti-government ideas as main-stream in the Republican and Libertarian Parties. Government officials from those parties in/from Red States talking insurrection,dis-obeying Federal Law,not accepting the President as legitimate,etc. Listening to the crazy talk from some of these people reminds me of reading about the late 1850's. And the crazy anti-government views from the secessionists that led straight to the horror of the Civil War. Once otherwise,in the past rational parties,sow the wind with an acceptance of insurrection against our national government. Then they,and we,may reap the whirlwind from it.

What an unbelievably horrendous situation. I just saw an update to this story, albeit with still not enough information from Authorities being let out, and no "comment" section following it. (Or the Media is not asking the right questions, I don't know).

This Guy was "scheduled" to be in Court before this incident occurred, but what time was he scheduled for and DID HE GO OR NOT? What happened that could have set him off because of either going or not? WHAT is that craziness (in Media reporting) about being given a gift for clearing where the bus turns around? Where? Where did the bus turn around in relation to his property? ON HIS PROPERTY?

He's obviously very distrustful, but he's also "cowardly", now walled off. He's very concerned about (and controlling about) "what is his" and even, according to the other story, entered the bus asking specifically for a 6 and 8 year old, of course the Bus Driver wouldn't do that, so that gave him an excuse to shoot the Driver, which it seemed is really what he wanted to do, anyway. (Because he was already angry at him) And then he ended up with not what he wanted, but a 5 year old, instead. Maybe it's a plus because the 5 year old is not what he wanted so he's not thinking of the 5 year old as "his". What he did with the gift that he didn't want was "give it away".

Maybe these Negotiators should be trying to build a relationship of "trust" with him by really concentrating positively on what is "his" and how positively it relates to obvious Military know-how of "his", and "honorable-ness" of being in the Military,etc. (He's a "prideful" COWARD and that gift was a bit "sissy", if you will, given to him right before he was suppose to go to Court, probably really afraid to face his cowardly actions from before) He's a Navy-guy, but maybe they could bring things around to try and somehow make a deal with him to get him to let the boy go in exchange for sending him a specially trained "Military" PTSD dog to take the "non-Military-not-his" boy's place. TO STAY WITH HIM, INSTEAD OF THE BOY. (Agreement that they WILL NOT raid him after sending the Dog to stay with him, etc) A Dog, companion that could be "his", instead! GET THAT BOY OUT OF THERE!

I can't even begin to imagine what the Parents must be going through!

Also that this PTSD Dog would be his and would stay with him "to the end", even if he were to end up coming out of the bunker and being arrested and taken away to jail. The Dog would stay with him, in the Police Car, while being booked, in the jail, in his cell, etc..........to the end.

I'm just seeing this story, for the first time, beginning late last night and had no idea that the situation was this, and so dire. (For some reason, I was under the impression that the boy had been kidnapped and was being held hostage by a known relative, like a Parent, inside a home somewhere). NOT THIS!

Again,while a few people on the Liberal side have extreme views (though those claims have a great deal of validity),I still didn't hear or read about calls for insurrection,and not to obey his orders as President. If you have any proof otherwise I'd like to see it.

I wonder, Uncle Bob, how it is you feel that right-wing extremists represent the core of their party, while left wing nuts represent some negligible fringe element.

I remember well the late 60s and early seventies. The Weathermen, SDS and other radical elements did not constitute a negligible fringe element. Such organizations and and their political beliefs were present on virtually every college campus in the country and were constantly in the media. Their views were at least as common as any of the conservative ideas of which you complain.

Did they represent the core values of the Democratic Party? No, no more than some of the conservative fringe groups do the Republican Party. If you can find a quote from any of the 2012 Republican candidates for President espousing armed insurrection, succession or disregarding the laws of the Federal Government, please supply it.

Are you trying to say this type of group is a main-stream Democrat group? No Democratic official that I've ever heard off,accepts these people as main-stream in the Party. Again if you have proof otherwise I'd like to see it.

No, i am countering your inane suggestion that such disordered thinking exists only among Republicans...

Talk about rebelling and fighting the Government,or seceding from our country. All of those actions are purely right-wing methods.

I've twice now supplied you with examples to the contrary.

Your contention...

"Dykes, 65, described by authorities and neighbors as a Vietnam veteran and survivalist with deep mistrust of the government,..."

This said it all. Another anti-government gun-nut, people that have become one of the main bases of the Republican and Libertarian Parties in our country.

...is beyond ridiculous. Jimmy Lee Dykes is a lone, crazy gunman. He is no more emblematic of the Republican Party than Ted Kacazynski was of the Democratic Party. Your attempt to portray him as such reveals your thought process to be one constrained by blind adherence to ideology, and is emotionally equivalent to a child sticking his or her fingers in their ears and making sing-song noises to avoid hearing what has been said.

This was a story about a crazy man, and you turn it into one of politics. Even I find that repellant, and the last 7 presidential candidates for which I voted were Obama, Obama, John Kerry, Al Gore, Clinton, Clinton, and Michael Dukakis.

dman-I wonder, Uncle Bob, how it is you feel that right-wing extremists represent the core of their party, while left wing nuts represent some negligible fringe element.

Because many of the "elected" Representatives of those parties spout similar anti-government propaganda. Louie Gohmert,Allan West,Ted Cruz,Stockman,Perry,Paul,and a host of lower elected Republican and Libertarian officials,have come out threatening impeachment, nullification,not obeying Federal Laws,secession,etc. Don't you watch the news?

dman-I remember well the late 60s and early seventies. The Weathermen, SDS and other radical elements did not constitute a negligible fringe element. Such organizations and and their political beliefs were present on virtually every college campus in the country and were constantly in the media. Their views were at least as common as any of the conservative ideas of which you complain.

I remember those days as well. And we have to disagree here.They were fringe elements,having some support among students,but almost zero in the population at large. They rejected the American political system as a whole. They hated the Democrats ( "hey,hey,LDJ. How many kids you kill today") as much as the Republicans. And found zero politicians spouting their messages of Revolution. Which is why they failed to gain any traction in society. There is little comparison to the massive talk radio,right-wing media support that the Teaparty Republicans and Libertarians have to push their hate.

dman-Did they represent the core values of the Democratic Party? No, no more than some of the conservative fringe groups do the Republican Party. If you can find a quote from any of the 2012 Republican candidates for President espousing armed insurrection, succession or disregarding the laws of the Federal Government, please supply it.

Since they were not ever a part of the Democratic Party,and even opposed Democratic Party leaders,I guess your right. But over the last years the right-wing groups have infiltrated and gained control of parts of the Republican and Libertarian Parties. I listed a few of the Republican leaders that support them and their ideas,and there are many others.

If you,as you say,vote Democrat,I find it amazing that you can't see whats happening to our country. The division is as deep as I've ever seen it. But unlike in the past,a major main-stream political party in our country is allying themselves with the very forces intent on destroying us. Instead of being the "loyal opposition",like the party out of power is supposed to be. Many of them are in league with the verbal bomb throwers,and anti-government fanatics leading us on a path to civil war. Do I think all Republicans,Libertarians,and the Conservative Movement are part of these groups,no of course not. But there are considerable numbers that are,or at least agree with them,and that's the problem. Once extreme views become accepted as main-stream by groups in power.Then we are on a slippery slope to ruin.

They should remove the picture of this idiot and put Poland's picture up so he can be honored.

A U.S. military official confirmed Friday that Dykes served a little more than four years in the Navy before being discharged in January 1969. He received several awards, including a medal for good conduct.

Well I hope at the very least he gets stripped of his medal for good conduct. In my fantasy world, I imagine it being done after this unharmed child is reunited with his family and Serve Pro is busily scraping gray matter off the walls and ceiling of the descedent's bunker like it never even happened.

In my fantasy, they get the child out and just fill in the hole.

" imagine it being done after an unharmed child is reunited with his family and Servepro is scraping gray matter off the walls and ceiling of the descedent's bunker. "

There isn't any gray matter to splatter! If that stupid fugger had half a brain, he wouldn't be doing this stupid crap in the first place. And why the hell does it always end up being some white guy? Not being racist, just saying. And the fact that he is an honorably discharged veteran makes it all the worse.

rick the good conduct medal is for his behavior while serving, it has no bearing on his conduct after disharge. it should not be stripped from him.

What he is now is a product of 40 years of life after service and probably heavily influenced by civilian treatment of Vets when they came back from 'Nam that was less than nice. (yelling baby killer etc at anyone in uniform etc...) and a lack of services through the VA for these vets.

I'm not excusing his behavior and believe he should either a)face the death penalty for the murder of the bus driver or b) be committed to a mental institution for the rest of his natural life.

But stripping him of his earned service medals for events 40 years later that are NOT related is not a correct action.

I have no documented research to back this up, but I would imagine that premeditated acts of violence such as this one are most often commited by crazy white people, and I would imagine that the random acts of violence such as the shootings in Chicago lately are commited by black people.

I'm white, I'm not racist, but I watch enough TV for me to come to this conclusion on my own. If I'm totally off please let me know. Like I said, I am only speculating.

Genenut

I hope they strip his cardiovascular system of blood in the very near future...

Tell him Jesus is at the door and wants to talk to him. Or generate reports that the apocalypse he's been waiting for has happened and is all over so he can come out.

OhhhPinnnYunnn

Reading that list is enough to make a person sick. A lot of women, children, and rapes on that list...

wow there are a lot of women and children on that list. thats interesting.

Curious to know the time frame of this list - were there dates to go along with it?

OhhhPinnnYunnn

Please provide a timeline for these events. Was this over the last year? Ten years? Century? Without context, the list is useless.

You need context????

People are dead for no reason... There's your context.

Yes, and without the list of white murderers, hispanic murderers, asian murderers, and murderers of unknown origin - the list is useless. Unless your a racist, I guess.

Also, we Nam veterans are a little weary of reading the insinuations in these storys, also in these blogs, whenever someone who served there commits a violent crime. Over 2 1/2 million went through there, the vast majority who were lucky enough to return led decent and productive lives. If you don't respect the fact that someone has gone to war for his/her/your country, then just don't say anything about it, please. This guy obviously has some problems, but I doubt that they originated in Nam, so leave the generalizations out of it, and lets hope and pray they can get the child out of there safely.

#2.9 I've seen that list before. It's only a partial list. I don't see George E. Banks on the list. He killed all his "baby momas" and most of their babies in Pa. 1982.

Killed:

1. Sharon Mazzillo (24) - Former girlfriend of George Banks who was engaged in a custody dispute over their son, Kissmayu Banks. Gunshot wound to the chest.
2. Kissmayu Banks (5) - The son of Sharon Mazzillo and George Banks. Gunshot wound to the face.
3. Scott Mazzillo (7) - Nephew of Sharon Mazzillo. Kicked, hit with the rifle butt, killed with a gunshot wound to the face.
4. Alice Mazzillo (47) - Sharon Mazzillo's mother. Shot in the face while on the phone with police.
5. Regina Clemens (29) - Girlfriend of George Banks. Gunshot wound to the face.
6. Montanzima Banks (6) - The daughter of Regina Clemens and George Banks. Gunshot wound to the heart.
7. Susan Yuhas (23) - Girlfriend of George Banks, sister of Regina Clemens. Gunshot wound to the head.
8. Boende Banks (4) - The son of Susan Yuhas and George Banks. Gunshot wound to the face.
9. Mauritania Banks (20 months) - Daughter of Susan Yuhas and George Banks. Gunshot wound to the face.
10. Dorothy Lyons (29) - Girlfriend of George Banks. Gunshot wound to the neck.
11. Nancy Lyons (11) - Daughter of Dorothy Lyons. Gunshot would to the head.
12. Foraroude Banks (1) - The son of Dorothy Lyons and George Banks. Gunshot wound to the head.
13. Raymond F. Hall Jr. (24) - Bystander who had been attending a party across the street. Gunshot wound to the liver and kidney.

Survived:

1. Keith Mazzillo (13) - Hid in a closet while he watched his mother Alice die due to a gunshot wound to the head.
2. Angelo Vitale (10) - Hid under the bed where his mother Alice died.
3. James Olsen (22) - Survived a gunshot wound to the chest.
4. Unidentified Man that Banks car jacked at gun point.

Rick's Real

A U.S. military official confirmed Friday that Dykes served a little more than four years in the Navy before being discharged in January 1969. He received several awards, including a medal for good conduct.

Well I hope at the very least he gets stripped of his medal for good conduct. In my fantasy world, I imagine it being done after this unharmed child is reunited with his family and Serve Pro is busily scraping gray matter off the walls and ceiling of the descedent's bunker like it never even happened.

He got awarded for doing what ever he did to earn them. You dont strip away from somebody awards for an event that happened.

Now this guy at one time must have had all or most of his marbles , but over time, being in war does cause problems for vets. Not to mention his mind could be breaking down, and hes going crazy basically. While I dont condone him killing, he also needs help. If he is not found crazy, then life in prison for his actions.

What's an online thread without the racist component?

One good think that can be said: The former is somewhat less common than an online news page without several gun murders.

Nick-3673024

I have no documented research to back this up, but I would imagine that premeditated acts of violence such as this one are most often commited by crazy white people, and I would imagine that the random acts of violence such as the shootings in Chicago lately are commited by black people.(sic)

Nick slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

Thanks Marmaduke. That's the most reasonable thing I've read on this thread!

More than half of these posters would have spit on the boys coming home from Vietnam! Many of them that are even still alive are loosing their marbles. And so many idiots out there think they should maybe all be locked up. Freakin sick!

Free Jimmy Now !!!

Lets put an end to this nonsense and let the veteran go with the thanks he never got for service of his country. The bus driver tried to play Rambo and lost . . . too bad. So many do goodies out their with BIG MOUTHS need to step down and listen instead of BOSSING other people to the point they break and commit unintentional acts.

Obama if you the man I HOPE you are you will set Jimmy free . . . a full pardon. Do it now so we can put an end to this nonsense !!

All of these random shooting of children has been done in the last 10-15 years, before that you would never hear of such a thing. In fact, most couldn't even imagine it and now it's almost a monthly event. It's not the availability of guns, those have been available for the last 250 years; something else is happening.

I strongly believe that responsible citizens should have the right to own guns but I think that better control should be used to monitor who gets to own a gun. For instance this guy shot a dog and shot at a person yet was still allowed to keep his weapons, it doesn't make any sense.

tigerlover, if that's what you got out of that, I can't help you see it differently. Obviously, you didn't read a lot of the previous comments or maybe just not a very sharp tool!

Paul with you mentality . . . I don't really expect you want a comment. I happen to have three advanced degrees and one of them gives me the privilege of defending people like Jimmy . . . so stuff it.

• 1. Matthew Emanuel Macon (Murdered and Raped 5 White Women in Lansing)
• 4. Justin Blackshere (Stabbed two white cooks at Cheli’s Chili downtown Detroit)
• 14. The Zebra Killings (71 White people)
• 18. Reginald and Jonathan Carr (The Wichita Massacre–6 Whites murdered)
• 19. Ray Joseph Dandridge and his uncle, Ricky Gevon Gray (Richmond, VA.–Murdered 7 people in 7 days, including an entire White family.)
• 22. Charles Johnston (Murdered 3 unarmed white men in hospital)
• 25. Charles Lee "Cookie" Thornton (Murdered 6 Whites at the Kirkwood, MO. city council. )

Wow what racist website did you get this off of? As if making a point to highlight when whites were killed somehow makes thier crimes more horrific, as if the rape and murder of seven women is any more or less horrifying because they were white. Or are they suggesting the crimes were racially motivated?

Let's get one thing straight violence is not a black or white thing, it isnt racial at all. Violence is a human problem that crosses racial lines. The context of the violence might be different for different cultures and groups but its there none the less.

For years, I hid the fact that I was a Viet Nam vet. Often, I hid the fact that I was a vet, period because we got treated like crap. Heck, the day I got home from over there, I was walking along the overview in San Pedro and some old, grandmotherly-looking woman got up off a bench and came over and spit on my uniform. Didn't say a thing, just hocked a big old loogie on me. Wow, nice effin' country! At least, by then, that wasn't all that novel an experience, but it was unexpected, under the circumstances. It certainly convinced me that my service wasn't really appreciated and would be best hidden if not actually denied.

And now those same jerkwads want to claim that Viet Nam explains this guy? Gee, thanks for tarring all of us with that brush. I had some hope that maybe we'd outgrown that, but the SOB's who were spitting on me in the early 70's are still around. Now, however, they post their spit on Newsvine.

I still suffer nightmares. Sometimes I have panic attacks. But I work and pay my taxes and help my neighbors and I separate my recycling and I take in abused kids and give them a home, on my own dime. So how about leaving Viet Nam out of it? It didn't make me crazy, but it did make a lot of you judgmental ingrates who didn't deserve my sacrifice. At least I have nothing to apologize for. I wonder if you can say the same thing.

Tiger, I'm old enough and smart enough to know that some of the most educated individuals are idiots! Glad you're so educationally accomplished. To bad you still lack some common sense!

tigerlover-4113331

Free Jimmy Now !!!

Lets put an end to this nonsense and let the veteran go with the thanks he never got for service of his country. The bus driver tried to play Rambo and lost . . . too bad. So many do goodies out their with BIG MOUTHS need to step down and listen instead of BOSSING other people to the point they break and commit unintentional acts.

Obama if you the man I HOPE you are you will set Jimmy free . . . a full pardon. Do it now so we can put an end to this nonsense !!

Yeah let's just ignore murder and kidnap. I don't care what this man's history of service is he wasn't given free reign to break the law. His only possible defense at this point would be insanity.

"The bus driver tried to play Rambo and lost . . . too bad." Let's see the bus driver tried to intervene when this man went to kidnap children, and was murdered for it. According to you its too bad , no big loss the old man should have minded his own business.

It is a sad fact that Americans have a pathetic history when it comes to how we treat our military veterans. Rather than giveing them the thanks they deserve and giving them the proper care we owe them we try to ignore thier existence or worse, but still that is no excuse for this behavior. If there are circumstances that let this man to do what he did, it can be sorted out during his trial, if he surrenders. If he doesn't surrender and is killed by the police, well that is on him. But still this man's behavior has gone far beyond the point where it can simply be ignored, which is what was suggested.

Marmaduke49

He got awarded for doing what ever he did to earn them. You dont strip away from somebody awards for an event that happened.

I guess those are military rules huh? Kind of like the Catholic church and priests: no accountability after the fact. But in sports, we strip medals from Olympic athletes who cheat, years - even decades - after the fact. Pete Rose in baseball; no sympathy for him. Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis in cycling; no sympathy. Boy Scouts who, years after receiving their Eagle badges, having them revoked because they admit to being homosexual. I guess when military or former military is involved in rape, murder, assult; we just look the other way now, the rules just don't apply, because "they served their country". There's no accountability after the fact; that's @!$%#ing insane. Stop making excuses for this piece of @!$%#! I don't care what acts of heroism he performed in the past; when you MURDER a school bus driver in front of a bus full of kids, then kidnap a child and hold him in a bunker under the ground, you're no @!$%#ing Rambo; you're just another mental case who needs to be put down.

And what do you do with these "abused kids" you have taken in, oldfarte? Abuse them in a slightly different way?

PS: If you really did the 'Nam you will understand what my screen name means.

Rick's Real

Marmaduke49

He got awarded for doing what ever he did to earn them. You dont strip away from somebody awards for an event that happened.

I guess those are military rules huh? Kind of like the Catholic church and priests: no accountability after the fact. But in sports, we strip medals from Olympic athletes who cheat, years - even decades - after the fact. Pete Rose in baseball; no sympathy for him. Lance Armstrong and Floyd Landis in cycling; no sympathy.

Come on rick Huge difference here. Please use some thought process before you respond after I you read this.

People like Lance armstrong, Mark Mcquire, Roger Clemens, Ben Johnson, Pete Rose, all these and tons more who used illegal substances to enhance their performance to make them better or give them an edge over their opponents. They have no right to earn any title because they didnt do it legally and fairly.

A Military person, fire fighter, police officer who save lives, are not cheating. They are risking their lives to save other lives. After its all said and done they get their reward for their heroic actions done for that time in their life. That is something you can not change.

Lets look at OJ simpson as an example. All his stats as a running back still stands because he did them at a point of time in his life long before the whole murder fiasco. They dont strip stats away for accomplishments that were performed legally. Yes his name now means nothing any more, but OJ of the past, and his stats of the past live on as history.

So just as this man who served in vietnam, who was awarded medals, earned those for doing something in that time in his life. So regardless of what he does later on in life , the past doesnt change. We honor that part of him and can thank him for the lives of THAT time he saved.

Now with that being said, I in no way condone what he did. Murder is murder, and he shot and killed a person with unjust cause. He deserves punishment for his crime, but not have his past heroics stripped away. That is set in history and it can never change.

So I respect the man of the past and the good deeds he has done, and frown upon the events currently.

I hope you see the Huge difference between your reference to Lance and them and this Guy.. its like night and day.

Marmaduke49I hope you see the Huge difference between your reference to Lance and them and this Guy.. its like night and day

I have a feeling you've forgotten what daylight looks like.

I'm sure he's eating his own food, most likely MRE's that he stocked the bunker with.

That's true.

What a nut

I resent when they mention a Vietnam veteran...........there is a gigantic difference between combat veteran and veteran.......not too many Navy guys saw combat in this era or Air force for that matter.......it was the army and marine grunts who saw the action during that time and suffer to this day from that experience........go to the "Wall" and find out which branch of service had what casaulties and wounded during the war.........most guys went to air force and navy because they wanted to live, the rest of us went to army and marines.......

So Let Me Get This Straight...Mr. Dykes shot and killed neighbor's pets and finally shot at a neighbor's truck and hw was Summonsed to go see judge Bl0J0b wearing his black habit getting $250,000 a year And DEPENDING on these NutJobs to Justify Hi @$$H0L!NNE$'S "judgeship" to the tune of Quarter of A Cool Mill PER YEAR!!! While the Clowns in Congress are considering the Final FireArm Expanded Background Check Will be with none other than FICO, your Credit GUN Score; While Mind You, Federal Judge and ALSO the ceo of "peregrine investments gets 50 years, 43 MUST DO In Federal PlayPen, For stealing $215,000,000 from his customers over a 20 year period BUT MIND YOU, STILL Get's his $100,000P/Year Pension...This Place is Whacky.....

flag waver : you don't have a clue what you're posting about. Ignorant grunts have myopic vision, smart grunts see the big picture. I won't take it any further; you wouldn't understand anyway.

Flagwaver is right, there is a difference between a Combat Veteran, and a Combat ERA Veteran. As an example I am a Combat ERA Veteran, because of Grenada. I never stepped foot into the combat zone, and at most prepared for deployment. But since I served during that era, I am considered a combat era vet. Just because the idiot in this story served during the Vietnam war, doesn't make him a Vietnam Combat Veteran. That implies he went into a battle. Yes part of his service could have been combat related, but I don't see any of it as an excuse to what he is doing here, or see a reason for any war related PTSD. He is just a nut job.

Flagwaver: almost all POW's in the VNC were Navy or Air Force. And few who bailed out over Pathet-controlled territory returned alive.

After almost 30 years of often holding two jobs at once, 12,14, and even 16 hours a day, I am pretty much semi-retired. I volunteer at my house of worship, the VFW, my community and even at an elementary school. And I belong to the NRA. WTF do you do other than run your pie hole?

shetc;

LOL FOC ROF

I know some school bus drivers I'd be scared to ride with, let alone have them armed.

Just what we need; more people armed. School bus drivers, teachers, principals...where does it end?! I watch the news a lot, and once in awhile, I'll hear a story about a mass shooting somewhere else in the world, other than the U.S. But, that is a rare thing. I'm just saying.

Stonepipe. So I would like to know what do you think about the people demanding more bans on guns like the Bushmaster ar 15 and clips that hold more then 10 rounds? and better background checks and closing the gun show loop holes? I own guns also. But I would never join the NRA. But I would not join any other group even AARP. I just don't go in for groups. But I did join the American's for responsible solutions. Witch is Gabby Gilfords and her husbands Group. I would love to know where you stand on the matter?

Does it strike anyone as odd that all we're hearing in the news is about crazies shooting it up and no stories of people who have twarted criminals in self defense with the use of a gun? Happens every day.

Chuck, thank you for your kind response and civilized post. I am all for background checks, and only a fool would sell a gun to someone he did not know, I do not know what the county sheriff charges for a background check but it can't be much. As for the black rifle goes, out on the prairie law abiding citizens use them as they would a chainsaw, hammer or any other tool. Coyotes, packs of dogs, ( killed a kid less than 30 miles from me 20 some years ago) and for just well.....Fun?

And Chuck in my opinion the Brady Bill law did nothing but make the men behind the oak desks lots of money. Not as much as the gun banners have but very substantial none the less.

Some of the very same guns were sold only without a muzzle brake, bayonet lug and a "thumb hole stock" instead of the pistol grip stock during the Brady years.

As far as the 30 rd mag goes don't really need it or want it. But to each his own.

When I grew up in the 60's we were taught to respect others and the janitor, bus driver, pastor or doctor were treated the same! Now look at all these little bastards running around worshiping pro athletes, crap stars and the Cargashians and Snookie and people wonder why our society has gone to Hell? Ban the 30, the black rifle and every little thing that bothers you, it will not stop the train wreck.

maddog - more than one gun worshiper/fetishist makes the same claim. None of them proves it. So prove it.

You're right Maddog. Not that the populations minds could be manipulated by the media or anything!

Given the tragic fact that tens of thousands of people die or are injured as a result of gun violence each year in the US, it is probable that the number of thwarted criminals are minuscule in comparison.

please print where you get your facts. everything i have read is just the opposite. i'm calling bull @!$%#!

ARM A BUS DRIVER . . . Yea right. Most bus drivers are twinkees . . . and a danger to the road.

Sailcat, I fixed some more typo's in your rant...

Jimmy Lee Dykes is the archetypal Liberal: a psychopathic paranoid schizophrenic harboring insane delusions of vague government omnipotence. His response to his mental problems is also typical of the average liberal: random acts of meaningless violence. Pelosi must be sooooo proud.

Liberal control. Now, more than ever, it is the right thing to do.

@sailcat.,...

And where exactly did you get your so called facts? Are you a Doctor? Are you his doctor? You act like you know so much about it all but isn't this just really your opinion?

Wrong, sailcat. In actuality, guns are successfully used, defensively, about 2 million times a year. Meanwhile, taking the last year for which complete records exist, there were 28,000 gun related deaths, of which 18,000 were suicides. If they'd thrown themselves off a building, instead, would you be proposing to outlaw buildings over 2 stories high? The rest divide between police shootings, accidents, and homicides, with the majority of the homicides falling into either domestic violence or gang related shootings. While these spree killers get publicity, they are not the norm.

It seems a gaggle of weak-minded followers of that infamous terrorist organization, the NRA, have arrived to prove my point about their questionable mental states! Thanks guys! You can go back to the home now! You might want to clean up the puddles on the floor before you go, though...

Shect, Why are you not a school bus driver?

sailcat-kind of immature for a 23 year old aren't you? Answer my question-what do you DO for your community?

@R.Bondy --- Because the dumb azz is mentally unstable. He thinks the NRA should have provided the moron prep with mental health services.

@sadmama Thanks for your questions.

Stonepipe, doesn't it just bother you a LITTLE bit that La Pierre got out of the draft during the Vietnam war with with a psychiatric 4-F? He was too crazy to carry a gun in Vietnam, but is an advocate for responsible gun owners here...REALLY?

oldfarte

Wrong, sailcat. In actuality, guns are successfully used, defensively, about 2 million times a year.

This number is just an estimate, not some sort of tally. Different groups estimate DGU numbers ranging from 55,000 to 2.5 million. The differences are in methods, time-frames covered, and questions asked. People can't even agree on what constitutes a DGU.

I never said I was a fan of Wayne.

Sailcat,

Given the tragic fact that tens of thousands of people die or are injured as a result of gun violence each year in the US, it is probable that the number of thwarted criminals are minuscule in comparison.

It may be probable in your bubble, but the facts prove different.

Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year or 6,849 every day. Often the gun is never fired and no blood (including the criminal’s) is shed.

Targeting Guns, Dr. Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State University, Aldine

Before you or any of the others who know nothing about guns other than what you get from the media, keep making assumptions, you should educate yourself a bit rather than shooting from the hip and missing your target. You try to dazzle everyone with your brilliance but in reality you are only baffling everyone with BS.

Stonepipe, if you are not a fan of his, why do you belong to the organization he heads?

@Im not waiting for you

Me as well, I knew he had to be white!

hepped up on talk radio

Amendment IX does. The right to Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of crayons and kickballs is clearly defined.

And where one's persons enumerated rights deny others these rights, the wielder loses all ground.

It's impossible to preemptively police every single deranged, mentally ill, anti-government wing nut. And they come in every race. Stop trying to bend this into propaganda to fit your agenda, at least until the boy comes out safely. Starting the finger-pointing early helps no one, and blocks discussion and work towards a solution.

amediamogul, I don't know that I have seen any black or hispanic anti-government, deranged wing nuts, but I understand your point. Please be sure you post in defense of minorities when the racists on this board start in with their spew about how all the blacks are thugs and all the hispanics are illegal.

Cappy, Can you say Black Panthers

stevej- when was the last time you saw any Black Panthers? Other than on fux spews, which tried to pretend that two guys claiming to be black panthers represented millions - all of whom who were coming after the nitwits who watch fux spews.

Steve-Cappy, Can you say Black Panthers.

I'm not a big fan of the Black Panthers.But still,I don't remember reading about them doing the horrible times these right-wing gun-nuts are doing.

@Cappy-1911

amediamogul, I don't know that I have seen any black or hispanic anti-government, deranged wing nuts,

Have you seen any of the New Black Panthers speak on the news? They fit that description.

Why does the "white" mean anything. I guess your ok with the 500 homicides in Chicago that are mostly "black on black" and many of them under the age of 18.

@De2Or The 2nd does not give anyone the right to murder, much less kidnap someone. Pull your head out of the sand and do a little research.

And they're practicing their RIGHT to free speech. The broadcasters (no matter how insulting) aren't to blame here. Lack of personal responsibility and education, stupidity, and at times mental illness are to blame. Stop taking the responsibility away from the person inflicting damage. If we restricted everything because it was either inflammatory or someone might be do something stupid with it/because of it, we'd have no cars, utensils, internet, news, talk shows, books, etc. etc.

I would say you are correct to a point. I saw the direction this country was going, which is why I bought my American made Century Arms Centruion 39 AK47 the day after Obama was re-elected. The difference between me and this whack job is that I'm not strapping it up and going to hurt people. I have it as a "just in case". I'd rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

So when is your bunker going to be finished? Yeppers, Obama is personally going to visit you to get your guns while simultaneously, singlehandedly, causing the crash of civilization through Islamic socialization of society. Yep, gotta keeps them guns handy. Stroke it at night while reading your bible.

I got a hundred bucks that says it is not a bunker, it is a storm shelter with three shelves and some Campbell's soup.

amediamogul, would you blame the violent segment of hip hop culture that glorifies drugs and violence for some of the violence in the inner city? I would. Allow me to explain. I am a huge proponent of personal responsibility, but you have to recognize that rappers carry some of the blame for feeding desperate people a steady diet of violence and selling drugs as a way out of their circumstances. What onwardandupward is saying is that even though the President passed two gun laws in his first 4 years, both EXPANDING gun rights, these right wing nutjobs have always been convinced that "the Muslim Socialist is trying to take their guns away" and those flames have been irresponsibly fanned by the right wing talk radio hosts. We are all still personally responsible for our actions, but when you feed desperate and/or paranoid people lies, you bear some of the responsibility when they act on them. Ask Charles Manson.

So when is your bunker going to be finished? Yeppers, Obama is personally going to visit you to get your guns while simultaneously, singlehandedly, causing the crash of civilization through Islamic socialization of society. Yep, gotta keeps them guns handy. Stroke it at night while reading your bible.

Yeah don't let the Patriot act, emergency powers act, changes to Habeus Corpus and Posse Comitatus ,the TSA and Homeland Security which is nothing more than a militarized police force that can be used to circumvent what's left of Posse Comitatus or this attack on the 2nd amendment worry you. Everything is fine.Nothing to see here. Go back about your business.Move it along folks.

LoL You don't have to be crazy to be alarmed at our loss of freedom. You have to be crazy to ignore it.

Hey Wild Bill, don't forget the chipping away of our first amendment. Heard today that it's now a felony to protest when government officials are present. Hoping that was just hype.

Great post, Bill.

"You don't have to be crazy to be alarmed at our loss of freedom. You have to be crazy to ignore it"

Wild Bill this is not directed at you specifically so please do not take offense. I've been looking around here trying to figure out exactly what freedom I have lost and try as I might I can't find any. There's a lot of talk about what I have lost but I still have the same choices I have always had.

Lots of talk and assumptions at this point. Not ignoring mind you but I don't see where any of us have disappeared from this board for hating or speaking badly of the government or owning a gun or anything else. But I do hear a steady uncurrent of fear and hatred on this board that seems to have tipped over in that bunker where that ahole is holding a kid against his will. How many here are one trigger pull away from being that guy? I would hope none but based on the constant hate content on these boards (which you are so far all free to say BTW) I have to wonder...

Words count folks. If you are all so concerned about the fed maybe you should think about what you are posting.

Amediamogul,

Ask yourself if Joseph Goebbels was able to use media to influence and then ask yourself again if media has some measure of responsibility. As someone close to me said "The force has a strong influence on the weak minded".

The media does bear responsibility as does anyone with a popular voice not preach hate and violence or mistrust and division whether that be a rap star or a Fox news analyst. No difference. Words matter.

Nick, you thought things were hunky-dory with Bush Jr.?

Onwardandupward, "spread lies about the government"? And what makes you so sure they are truthful? You know nothing at all if you think their interests have anything to do with what is 'right' or 'best' for the people!

Just because a person CAN use his/her freedom of speech to say things that rile up nuts doesn't mean it is a good idea or responsible. Just because they can doesn't always mean they should. A large part of being an adult is making responsible decisions about what we say or do. Does what I am about to say encourage nuts to go shoot people or does it contribute some positive to the world? If it does the former then a responsible person chooses not to say it.

What the heck ever happened to speaking the truth in an appropriate forum?

LittleGreenPuppet Where to start? How about Bidens threat for the President to push through unconstitutional legislation with executive orders bypassing congress? That's called a dictatorship. The Patriot Act?Allows domestic spying by the government. Habeus Corpus and Posse Comitatus? If someone points a finger at you and says "terrorist" the military can take you away and hold you at an undisclosed location indefinately without a hearing or trial. TSA? Unwarranted search and siezure( same for NYC's frisking anyone they want). That covers infringments on the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th amendments. Not Counting the current attack on the 2nd amendment.

I agree with onwardandupward; and I do think these sources spouting this PARANOIA need to be reigned in - they're brainwashing a lot of people out there; lots of young kids too. You take a man with PTSD who has seen battle, leave him to his own devises for decades with no family or close community to feel a part of, and then sprinkle in some provocative YouTube videos, websites, Glenn Beck, Alex Jones, Rush Limbaugh...you're going to get an angry, paranoid, and dangerous person.

I know a few people like him; they believe 9/11 was an inside job. They live in a different reality than the rest of us. There's thousands of people out there like that, being fed a steady stream of paranoid pseudo-news at the click of a mouse or on some daily fringe talk radio. They fantasize about rebuilding our society without banks, government, etc...We need to reel this in somehow.

Now I sound paranoid. Good grief. It is spreading. :(

I agree.

Probably where the name "Jimmy Lee" came from. Most likely his Mom and Pop would be proud.

Looks like the guy who had his face chewed off. Aim for the heart SWAT team, Ronald Poppo's got dibbs on his face.

Y did Dykes take a BOY?

@stevo Maybe he took that boy because according to earlier reports, the boy fainted and all the other children ran away.

You are a misinformed idiot. The NRA is FOR keeping guns out of the hands of people like this.

Sorry Nick...that's what they claim to be, but it is not what they are. Maybe many of the members support what you state (at least I hope that is true), but the leaders of the NRA are a bunch of self serving greedy scumbags that are out for their own financial benefit. As for the misinformed idiot comment, I must assume that you are in favor of what the NRA leaders support, and you own several assault rifles, and unlimited rounds of ammunition so you feel protected from a government that wants to take everyone's guns away. Just brilliant.

I only own 1 assault rifle. What's the point in 2? I can only shoot one at a time. And how did you get to know what the leaders of the NRA "really" want? Did you sit down with them at a table and they confided in you thier true agendas? Doubt it.

And you want to talk about self serving scumbags... take a look at your liberal buddies pal. I was amazed this morning. It was so cold here I actually saw a democrat with his hands in his OWN pockets.

Nick, it is really obvious what the leaders of the NRA want. Really...turn on your tv or read online. You can see whatever his name is preaching the agenda.

Prove that the majority of NRA members are anything like him asswipe. Just another useless blowhard

What is it that the NRA really wants ram? Come on ya little know it all. What do they really want? Please enlighten us with all your wisdom.

Ooops. I left out the big one. Shooting the bus driver.

That's EXACTLY what I was thinking. The guy's obviously not quite in touch with reality, but they should make a good show of promising him anything he wants (after making it appear suitably difficult to deliver first). A pardon for murdering the bus driver? Done. A place where he can live alone and stock up his supplies? No problem. A million dollars in gold coin so he can survive the coming financial collapse? Here you go. Then when he comes out, grab the boy, clap the guy in irons and haul him away.

I'm sure what he wants, he can't get. He wants our country to be something that he was proud to fight for when he was just a teen. Ain't happening!

Really, Paul? And I guess you know him to know that? And you are sure? He misses it being the Wild West where you go shoot innocent people and steal children? He was proud of the US and to show he is a real American he murders and kidnaps? This isn't anything about the US being anything he was proud of. This is about someone being nuts or just plain evil or both. Really...amazing you just know what he wants and you think he is murdering and kidnapping to make this country something to be proud to fight for? Do you see how insane that sounds?

No I don't ram. But I'm sure plenty of your leftwinger buddies do!

I'm not defending what he has done or is doing. I'm just speculating from what I hear from the circle of Vietnam vets that I have close relations with. The generality was out there of "what does he want". If I'm so off base, what do you think he wants, ram?

Martay: Guns are illegal in Chicago, so what explanation do you give to the killings there? just curious.. I will be happy to give my guns away if you can promise me that everybody including the bad guys will NOT have any guns either.

When you say "no guns = no killings", how do you propose that we do that? And do you mean absolutely no guns in the entire country?

Another gun nut heard from = Nick , When will you decide to kill

How about answering his question about Chicago, martay. More killings than anywhere else. With guns being illegal, how do so many bad guys still have them? It was the perfect test and it's damn hard to believe not more of you can see how miserably Chicago has FAILED!

It's more fun to push them in front of a subway train.

Paul, Duhhh their buying them in your state

@Mike-826197...Hey phuck stick, I guess this tragedy could never take place in New York State, Connecticut, Colorado, Pennsylvania, Chicago or Washington, D.C. Watch the news stool sample. You might learn something new. You already know you could never get your feet wet in your gene pool.

Mike, you're one of the reasons the USA is in decline. You're a perfect example of Political Correctness & brainwashing. You probably believe it when Hillary screams,"they just want democracy" or "he's killing his own people." You just don't get it.

You're killing me... :-)

Oooh wrong thing to say right now.

And that's one really big RED Flag that was ignored... Fix the Judicial System....Fix the Mental Health System... The Signs were there...but ignored...

The foil keeps the martians from probing him.

Oooh, I want to see the van. Maybe he'd come out if they said someone was messing with it...

Our wonderful government is who almost always drops the ball. Hold them accountable if you want anything to change for the better. They are never accountable for their failure. Oh yeah, Hillary took responsibility for the Benghazi fiasco, whatever the heck her being responsible means. A whole lot of nothing to the families of the fallen, but I wouldn't be surprised if all you liberals think otherwise.

Paul-596618. Two questions for you.

1. What the heck does you right winger's fake outrage about Benghazi have to do with a crazy gun nut killing a school bus driver and taking a child hostage?

2. Why do ignorant tea baggers like yourself spend a lot of time calling for less government and then blaming the government for not doing things?

I'll answer both questions for you. Your fake outrage comes directly from Faux Noise. And you inconsistent attitude about government is because you lack the ability to use reason and logic.

Well Rick, I've worked for the government for over 20 years! I'd say I know how things really are a wee bit more than your brainwashed arz!

Paul-Well Rick, I've worked for the government for over 20 years! I'd say I know how things really are a wee bit more than your brainwashed arz!

Then you need to resign. You obviously don't believe in our government. So quit taking our money,and let a person that is loyal take that job. That last thing we need is another 5th columnist in the government,we have too many of them as it is.

Yes! Excecution in the manner that you killed. If you burned someone to death, you burn to death. If you shoot someone, you get shot to death, if you stab someone......

Glad to see we finally agree on something Nick......

You sound pretty excited for the executioner job opening.

I check online several times a day with the hope this little angel has been freed. He's already been through enough. :(

@RN Very good post, hopefully your points will not fall on deaf ears.

Guns are a big problem because there are way too many of them in civilian hands and we already imprison more people per capita then any other industrialized country in the world.

Crime will continue to escalate as long as the wealth of the country continues to be ever more concentrated into fewer and fewer hands. Poverty is the breeding ground for certain types of crime and we have more and more people living in poverty. Of course corporate criminals will never be punished because corporations and the ultra wealthy own the government.

We imprison them for the revenue it generates for the government, Wonder Boy! Creates jobs believe it or not. Big government buddy. And, what do corporate criminals have to do with this wacko having a child held hostage in a bunker?

Well said David

So is your proposal that the good people with guns end the bad people with guns? When I see someone with a gun, how am I supposed to tell the difference?

That's President Obama.

Ummm... Because gun owners fight any laws that will keep guns out of the hands of criminals and nut jobs.

More kooks will be coming out of the cabins with guns, shooting people up, as the year passes. When enough blood is shed, changes will be made. How much blood will be needed is the question.

And there will be more murders than anywhere else in Chicago, Washington d.c., and New York.........all the places' with strict gun laws denying lawfull citizens the right to protect themselves.

Not sure if we have a gun problem. If we have a gun problem, then we have a car problem, health problem, and so on.

Number of car deaths in 2011 - 33,687, so we should BAN cars?

Switzerland has the highest gun ownership, every citizen owns a gun, and they have the least amount of crime anywhere in the world.

The country being devistated is a little far fetched. The news media is thriving on these situations is pathetic. I think that the parenting accountability needs to be enforced .Look and listen to all the music and media that has made it cool to be disrespectfull to adults, teachers others,parents with the sassyness,head bobbin,hand flailing etc. Until people respect each other , there employer, etc we need to be able to arm ourselves. I will continue to take care of myself and family if challenged.

Right on the head David Noah. Take responsibility for yourself what a novel idea, help with the problem instead of being the problem. Educate yourself and others to be responsible. Teach our children to be citizens, leaders, thinkers and not just reactionary idiots. To many of those on all sides of this issue, we seem to be so in Love with the fight, it is no wonder we can not come up with a reasonable solution. People seem to forget, this really is not about gun violence. It is about People violence, why do we hate so much, then try to blame something that can not think or reason, as the problem? We the People are shredding our world, and only We the People can fix it, how about lets stop the agenda's, work together and figure this out.

More laws, bans,ect. are not working. The politicians are trying to cover their own As**s and we continue to fight amongst ourselves and nothing productive gets done.

I grew up with guns, learned to respect them and be safe as well as shoot at a young age. Much of my training was done in an NRA sanctioned and trained local rifle club. Instructors were teachers, cops, postmen, store owners, you know regular people. We learned respect, caring, responsibility and many other feel good and do good things, not just about guns. Many of the values that people see as proper came from being at the Gun Club, rubbing elbows with good people who took the time to help kids learn. I am not a member of the NRA now, gave that up a couple decades ago when in my opinion it became more about politics and lobbying. I am still a gun owner, a person that believes in doing the best I can to be respectful to anyone and not being prejudiced toward anyone up until the time that They Themselves give me a reason. It sure seems like many in this nation want to give me a reason.

Come on people, lets really slow down a bit, think, be a solution instead of just another problem. What can I do to help my country, instead of what can my country do to help me. Will get more done! People Violence, that is the problem and yes that is one of the best reasons I know to own guns, especially since we do not want to put the blame where it belongs.

Tired of it. Aren't we all. This mans neighbors and family and the local police dropped the ball. Let me tell you a little story about my cousin. He went to Viet Nam and came back changed. He moved to some property that he would eventually inherit from his father. He was always seeing things in the woods. Tresspassers, hunters, people sneeking into fish from his lake. I knew he was a wack job pretty fast. I told his older brother that he should be evaluated and maybe disarmed. His brother said that eventually he would work his way through his problem. Soon my cousin was placing IEDs on his property. When we would go to the lake fishing he would go with us and show us the homemade explosives in the bottom of cans with nails loaded on top. Warning us to not trip any strings. It made my mother anxious. Eventually we talked my cousin into disarming every booby trap that he had laid. He was proud of his arsenal. His pride and joy was a Ruger .22 rifle that he had converted to fully auto. It was eerie to see his eyes get that strange look when he talked about Nam. He didn't do it much. Just sometimes if it was raining hard in the summer. He kinda had the same look as Mr. Dykes. It's not crazy in the normal terms. It's going back in time and not coming back. They know what day it is. They know what year it is. They just fail to realize that they don't have the need or the right to do things that they were trained to do. There usually is a triggering event. It could be almost anything. There are plenty of Nam Vets who can look this guy in the eye and say "There but for the grace of God go I". A few years ago my cousin saw trespassers on his property. It was a car with several young people partying on his road. They were doing drugs and making a lot of noise. My cousin is crippled up now. He can barely walk. He went out his front door and hollered at them to leave. They must have knew that he was crippled. They screamed and hollered, called him names, and eventually made him very angry. He shot into the air and told them to leave. They piled into their car and sped down his road. As they went by his house he shot at the back tires. He hit the back right fender several times. A few hours later he was in jail and the people who triggered him were laughing. His house was broke into that night and ransacked. He lost his FOID card and can no longer legally own a gun in Illinois. He knows he was wrong for firing his weapon. There was no self defense needed. He was lucky that he was still a very good shot. He was trained well. The problem is restraint and the knowledge that he was very, very wrong. As it was it all turned out all right. He doesn't own a gun any more. Not that I know of.

David,

They need to first remove the word gun from violence. We need to explore violence and find ways to mitigate or limit it. What causes one to be violent in a given situation? Then, I don't believe that it is a bad idea for a young lad to learn that a blood nose hurts either. In some ways we have gone way overboard and in others we have done nothing. Such as in domestic violence, the media and activists would have the world believe that women and children are always the victims. Men are often victims too; however, are to macho to stand up and say they are being victimised by the little woman.

Boats44,

Oh no they are not macho. IMO, they are emotionally weak men.

David Noah. I didn't realize Obama was attacking "lawful gun ownership". Could you cite when and where he's done so?

Do lawful gun owners need to possess assault weapons? I might also ask you where "criminals" get their guns but I think we all know they get them from lawful gun owners.

I'll never understand anyone who lives in such deep fear that they feel the need to have a gun nearby. I've managed to live nearly 72 years without ever carrying a weapon or even feeling like I wished I had.

Rick, you're obviously not a Detroiter. A few nights with the gangstas in your neighborhood and you'll understand why it's a good idea to arm yourself with more than a bat. And criminals get there guns on the black market just like their illegal drugs. This guys issues go far beyond owning a gun. He is obviously a pedophile and they don't need any weapon to destroy the lives of others.

Luther-And criminals get there guns on the black market just like their illegal drugs.

Police report a half a million guns are stolen every year from homes. That's one big source for criminals getting guns. Then there are the gun shows where 40% of guns sold in the country are sold without background checks. Another big source for criminals to acquire guns.

It doesn't do a lot of good (though something is better than nothing) to have strict gun laws in big cities. Without state and national laws as well. All people have to do is drive out of town,to buy the guns. That's one of the big reasons Chicago having strict gun control laws hasn't been more effective.

Uncle Bob 512

While you may be right in wanting background checks (to be fair you yourself said they would be mildly effective at best), but you have continued to post remarks saying that gun owners are gun-nuts. We are actively lobbying for our rights and donating to organizations that support us. (the NRA is not another stupid and gun-nut organization) Compare that to the amount of lobbying and donations made to gun control organizations and you might see a shocking difference. The "gun-nuts" firmly believe that it is their right to own a gun with no restrictions. They are backing that up with money to show they are serious. The people who don't want firearms (Like yourself, and please correct me if I am wrong. I am just assuming this off of your previous statements and I do not wish to be offensive) do not support it enough. You are showing that it is not enough to sway your vote, but the NRA gun nuts are in fact backing their arguments up. This should be a state mandated issue, because its not a problem where I live.