My husband has been navigating the VA for years trying to get his benefits. If you aren't suicidal going into the system fighting for your benefits, you become suicidal just dealing with this mismanaged organization. I worry about him every day. SSD came through with his benefits off VA's paperwork within four months after he applied. He applied with the VA three months before SSD. Today, 1 1/2 years later he is still "pending". The Veteran Administration should be ashamed. I feel sorry for any soldier who doesn't have family to rely on for support. They make you suicidal. Maybe on purpose so they don't have to pay out benefits. Harsh charge. But in my humble opinion, as a wife watching her husband go through it, very true. Eric Shinseki is sitting in his office thinking, "the longer it takes for us to pay out benefits, the more likely we will have less people to pay."

This is UNACCEPTABLE !!! It's so easy to send our youth off to war with these god damned chickenhawks like this Cruz bastard from Texas. Criticizing both Kerry and Hagel as "not being friendly to our military". Yet this gutless Republican has never served one day in the American military while both Hagel and Kerry volunteered to serve and saw intense combat. God damned republikan cowards don't give a damn about returning veterans and people like Paul Ryan will balance the budget on the backs of disabled veterans. They have the gall to criticize Hagel a friend of the veteran. A man who is a veteran unlike scum like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz. This is a disgrace! We send these men and women off to fight and die and then abandon the survivors? UNACCEPTABLE !!!

"The country should be outraged that we are allowing this tragedy to continue The trends are headed in the wrong direction,” Rieckhoff added. “As veterans, we at IAVA understand the spectrum of challenges facing veterans transitioning home, including the struggle with invisible wounds. One thing is clear, we need more research and more collaboration.”

This says it ALL!!!! Good grief. What has America come to.

Some veterans are stressed out and get depressed because of the unreasonable social and financial expectations constantly piled onto them, for years after they've left the battlefield as they experience less social support and more pains from their body's illnesses.

They served unselfishly and had to be so strong for those that were less ...and now, this stoicism, combined with the onset of chronic health problems as they get older, is killing their spirits and hopes for anything better to occur in their lives. Try living without a sense of security and feeling that you were abandoned to live with civilians who cannot relate to you and take things for granted that you had to fight for, and see if you don't start thinking about ending the slow, grinding, downward spiral of feeling discarded back then, and feeling periodically abused now, isolated, increasingly ill of health and deeper in debt, and working yourself to the bone just to keep the lights on and a roof over your head for yourself and your family, and helping others less grateful for your help.

Man, that handgun to the head is looking good, to end the pointless, day-to-day survival in a war that never ended even after you came back home, and you came home to what? These vets came home to see all the greedy, selfish, petty manipulation, trivial complaining and uncaring, unsupportive systems and disfunctional families. Very different from the camaraderie, the morale-building support and bonds of life-saving friendship you developed with your protective buddies in uniform. After they died or left ...what's left in your life but your being surrounded by stupid, naive, selfish civilians, harsh employers, uncaring bureaucrats and their inconsiderate rules that use you, drain you, grind you down, day after day, year after year... you've busted your hump, you're getting older, sicker and poorer ...and for what?

You fought for this country and now you're discarded for not being good enough any more? Is it any wonder that a firearm with a chambered round and the barrel down the mouth ,or swallowing down a bottle full of painkillers with slugs of Jack Daniels is looking like a good, quick escape for some of them?

Are there stats to prove what the VA states? Like names ,home towns,date of death,reason etc? If not its not a fact!

A human dies every second of the day..but two humans are also born every second of the day

Okamura-- Who cares how they served? Only Okamura. mike --Do some research and get back to us with your "facts". Bluelake--You are correct.

"What percentage of these veterans have been on the battlefield where they risk their lives, and what percentage of these veterans were no where close to a battlefield?"

What difference does that make? Have you ever been in the military? Have you ever been on a ship for six month deployments? How about a submarine for six months? How about just being in a
sociopolitical environment where you have to do whatever the person higher ranking tells you to do, for 4 years (or however long you enlist/join for), and if you don't you stand to receive a dishonorable discharge, where it's difficult to get a job even at McDonalds? Have you ever been in this environment, or are you just speaking from the sidelines? That sideline that EVERYONE in the military provide you, giving you the freedom to be as callous and superficial as you want.

The military is the most difficult job in the world, no matter where you are stationed. You should be slightly ashamed of yourself for being such a douchbag.

what the F are you saying? I can't believe I am on MSNBC

mike277,

The USA has about 110+gun related deaths every day. Two-thirds of all gun-related deaths in the United States are suicides:

1. Largest demographic - White males over 45, committing suicide...

2. Next largest demographic - Black males between 15 & 30, usually while committing a drug related crime...

3. Suicide rates in the military were highest among people divorced or separated — with a rate of 19 per 100,000 — 24% higher than troops who are single. Singles are almost the US NORM of 12 per 100,000... see http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-07-10/army-study-soldiers-suicides/56136192/1

4. Children 1 to 14, dying from accidental gun discharges from a unsecured gun is very few, less than 60+per YEAR...

5. The rate for SUICIDE of over 75+year old males is 66 per 100,000, almost 5.5x the US average of 12 per 100,000...

Google - Gun HOMICIDES USA & US Suicides

Jerry Okamura-7718566,

I served 26+years, during my last 10+years, I was deployed over 70% of the time. The vast majority was for TRAINING. The last time to Iraq, I was told Mon PM that I had to be in Iraq NLT Thur PM and I was on - NO stand-by list. The USMC has historically KILLED more Marines during TRAINING, than during COMBAT...

Bluelake - I don't think this is a Republican issue, or a Democrat issue either. The discarding of our Veterans once they are back is a problem that's happened since at least Vietnam, through Republican and Democrat administrations.

The INCREASING suicide rates around the world are tied to - Lack of viable JOBS...

Japan was the suicide capital for decades @ 21.9 per 100,000, now South Korea is number 1 @ 31.7 per 100,000...

1.10 Oops - The Active Military singles rate for suicides is 15 per 100,000 not 12...

ToddC- I guess I was responding to a speech by Ted Cruz which I recently watched. In this speech he criticized both Hagel and Kerry as being unfriendly to the American military. He then when on to talk about how he would deal with our various enemies around the world. He spoke of ultimatums and invasions with "overwhelming force" and powerful armies. It was a powerful speech about how we should use our military and he spoke as if our soldiers were just some abstract warriors, just pawns in his vision of world military domination and I realized that to this guy our military was just that, some vague abstract force. A force to be used at the whim of the "hawks" in our government. And he had never served, never fought, never saw his friends die in combat, never had to come home and readjust after serving. A disgrace that empty suits with big mouths have the power to send our children off to fight and die and then ignore those men and women when they need some serious support and aid. I save my disgust and condemnation for ANY politician from ANY party who would so easily send our youth to war and then use their service as some political strategy in criticizing his opponents. Men like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz disgust me. They were the ones engaged in disgraceful political grandstanding during the Hagel confirmation hearings. And this guy Graham from South Carolina (or North, whatever)? He was a military LAWYER!! What a hero he is!!!

Why are we "outraged" that 22 veterans commit suicide daily and yet seem absolutely unconcerned that overall, 105 people commit suicide daily in the United States? The rate of suicides for veterans has been rock stable for the last 12 years while the overall rate of suicide has been steadily climbing throughout this latest recession, including the last several years when (according to the federal government) the recession has been over.

Michael Porter, I don't think the question is necessarily callous. I would ask the question that if 90% of these suicides are in veterans over the age of 50, why do we assume that the suicide is connected to their military service? I would also like to know if the suicide rate is higher in veterans who have served on the battlefield versus those who have not. These are legitimate questions, the answers to which, could lead to interventions that could further lower that rate.

Totally bizarre. And so are some of the comments.

First of all, no one has been sent anywhere, let alone sent to "fight and die" for our country. There is no draft. These people chose to murder other people at the behest of a drunken, lying, egomaniac who wanted to impress his daddy. And the threat to our country has been increased, not diminished, by the military.

Secondly, what goes around comes around. When life is cheap enough that you murder indiscriminately, your own life becomes less valuable to you.

Third, people who voluntarily get involved in the military just aren't that bright to start with. True defense of our country is one thing. Murder for Haliburton is just plain stupid.

Heads up, Rambos: the threat to America is right here at home in the form of non-existant borders, gangs, politicians who vote themselves benefits and pay far beyond those obtainable by the general populace, and corporations that are subject to special favor above human beings.

But dealing with that wouldn't be as sexy as strapping on all that murder gear and prancing around in costumes, would it?

As I said, what goes around, comes around.

I think it would have been useful to know the suicide rage for that age/sex demographic in the general population.

AnaBanana-1782128

I went through the same issues for nearly 10 years. After another declined application I hired attornys who deal with the VA and received my benefits (100%) in six months. It costs nothing if they loose and can only charge a maximum of $6000 if they win...and that just came out of the retroactive pay the VA owed me. Find them online at www.repforvets.com.

I wnet thru the same problem with SSD and hired Binder and Binder. They got the SSD for me!

Patter, if you read the article, it says that most of those who commit suicide are over the age of 50. While there are certainly some older soldiers in combat, the vast majority are in their late teens mid 20's.

So that kills your thought that many of these suicides were Iraq/Afganistan based.

I would like to know how many of those suicides had been in combat at all.

Jerry Okamura-7718566

What percentage of these veterans have been on the battlefield where they risk their lives, and what percentage of these veterans were no where close to a battlefield?

It doesn't matter. There are many positions in the military. Everyone has a job to do which makes the entire military, a "Team".

You have guys on the front line battling who need to continue on as they press forward. Then you have other guys backing them up and having to collect and process body's etc...

They "all" see it "all".

Here's what's going on. These people committing suicide went into the military for multiple reasons and one of those reasons is military benefits. Which could be very good.

They gave up a part of their lives for these benefits whereas, they could've just stayed out of the military and trained in college or worked on their career for benefits at a good job.

The military is now cutting back on those benefits and these people (most 50 and over) are now screwed and at their age, nobody wants to hire and train and old man or old lady. They want the young guns with less overhead and they can pay them less $ which doesn't hurt them as much as an established person with a mortgage and kids in college etc...

So, they hit rock bottom, house in foreclosure, bill collectors constantly calling, and unfortunately, give up.

It's also much easier for a Vet that has been in battle to commit suicide after experiencing cleaning up body parts and the dead body's of their Comrades over someone contemplating suicide that has only seen themselves get 5 stitches in their finger within their lifetime.

The Vets feel how unfair it is to them since when they were signing up, the Military was saying how they would taken care of for life but they wouldn't know that for another 30 or so yes but when those 30 or so yrs pop-up and they get Fk'd, they feel they have no other choice....

Very sad...

Janine-1645002

I would like to know how many of those suicides had been in combat at all.

I hope the above clears this up for you.....

patter123

Totally bizarre. And so are some of the comments.

First of all, no one has been sent anywhere, let alone sent to "fight and die" for our country. There is no draft. These people chose to murder other people at the behest of a drunken, lying, egomaniac who wanted to impress his daddy. And the threat to our country has been increased, not diminished, by the military.

As we do have a right to post our thoughts considering this is what the vine is for, you're absolutely and totally "clueless" about what the Military is all about. You're way off track and should Cruise the net to help you understand before you post something that suggests that you "should" have cruised the net for answers first which also makes your comment a "Bizarre" one.

Have a nice weekend to all....

patter123-The people who fought and died in Iraq did not choose to be the private army of the American oil industry. They did not choose to go off and murder Iraqis for Dick Cheney and his billionaire buddies or for a man trying to impress his father. They chose to join their state's National Guard units. Units supposedly ready for the defense of their homeland. When Cheney decided he wanted the Iraqi oil fields for the International oil cartel he wasn't thinking about where his cannon fodder would come from. The US had a volunteer army and no draft so in order to fight a war based on lies and political intimidation, a war of commercial conquest. he need a source for soldiers and turned to the National Guard. There were no Junior Rambos volunteering to fight for these greedy bastards, they were trapped and nothing short of desertion would get them out of the line of fire. So they sucked it up and went to fight. Honorably!

During the Vietnam War National Guard Units were a safe place to be, they weren't going to fight in SE Asia and so rich boy cowards like George W, were able to hide out in Guard Units. Others like Mitt Romney and Dick Cheney used numerous deferments to stay out of combat.

This is my whole point. Men who have never served in the military, men who have never seen a minute of combat men of weak character rattling their swords and puffing out their chests and blathering about how wars should be fought. These are the men so eager to send the American military en mass to fight in wars they support but would never have the courage to fight in themselves. This is the disgraceful side of a fine military run by civilian cowards.

Bluelake,

Very good spot on post. Thank you.

Good morning CD, and thank you.

Bluelake,

Good job making the argument for Hagel running the military. He is right in stating that each war should be considered with the thought of "is the means to the end worth a single lost American life". If Cheney had a heart and was capable of that thought the answer for Iraq would have been "no, not a single American life". But Cheney, being the cowardly war criminal he is, went the other way. Pocketing profits from the industrialized war machine, along the way. History books will show no mercy to Cheney and Bush.

This is very disturbing knowing our war heroes are still dying even after the battle is over.

patter123,

Spoken like a TRUE Pacifist Liberal, but a sorry Democrat...

Are you forgetting the worlds of JFK, Jan 1961??? "The energy, the faith, the devotion which we bring to this endeavor will light our country and all who serve it – and the glow from that fire can truly light the world. And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country."

While you are cowering behind locked gated communities, some of US have served our country, for generations...

Exactly what have you DONE???

I'll be glad to place my 8+years of college - GPA 3.85, with numerous degrees & Tech Certifications and 26+years active USMC, against anything you have contributed...

22 vets a day commit suicide and WHY must they wait up to a YEAR for treatment???? Obama needs to REMOVE the red tape and streamline WHATEVER the vets need! They put their lives on the line for us to have the FREEDOMS we enjoy every day!

That said, HAPPY MEMORIAL DAY!!! THANK A VET!!!

the article says most are by vets too old to have been in either of the recent wars.

50 is still a viable age in military today. That would have made them 35 on average in Desert Storm.

No.

True Bob,,,I would just like to know how many of them actually saw any combat.

200,000 Iraq Red Guard and tank regiments were obliterated and buried in mass graves after Kuwait incursion.

Estimates of Iraqi deaths range from 60,000 to 200,000 soldiers. Heaps of
Iraqi corpses were buried in mass graves in the desert.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/middle_east/02/iraq_events/html/ceasefire.stm

This doesn't tell the story of men being buried alive either. The true and correct information is being deleted and changed as the electronic super highway becomes more manipulated.

francle: No? 2013 - 1991 is a difference of 22 years, article said 50 and older. Do the math. Largest ground invasion in modern times.

Desert Storm isn't either of the recent wars, Iraq or Afghanistan, that the guy mentioned. Idiot.

Thanks Chester, I'm sure that will go a long way towards ending the problem, and will bring lots of comfort to the survivor's of the dead vets. It's a darn good thing all the conservative republicans are on the front lines voting for veteran's funding as fast as they can, isn't it?

Your right on Chesty, my Dad is a Vietnam vet and 70 years old. Depression and a wreck alot of times. We all worry about him and he does go to the VA. If you call the VA this first message is "if your considering suicide" pound out to this number". I wonder how many don't do it and the suicide number really could be higher. Major problem that needs some real focus........

Chester, the last 10 years of wars we can blame on the conservative idiots. However, what difference does it make? We need to take care of our vets and give them the care they have earned. The VA should be dissolved if it can not do better. They just want to spend millions on STUPID conventions. They should be in jail.

Chester / Reba - this problem has been present for a LONG time, through Republican and Democrat administrations, so it's hardly one side or the other side's ''fault''. There are far to many people trying to lay 'blame' and far to few people working on real solutions to the real problem.

I am sure the "liberals" who serve in the military thank you for your comment. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue. Bottom line, it is a money issue. All government programs need to be running efficiently. We cannot expect any agency to be running in an efficient manner when all we do is continue to cut the budget without first researching the effect it will have as a whole. Presently, we have a lot of our military members coming home from the war, and I am sure this adds an additional load to to the staff. We demand a lot from our members in the military, at the very least, we should be showing them that same consideration when they return. It we need to restructure the program to get this done, it should be so. And also when deployed, there should be readily available spiritual guidance as well as a therapist if and when needed. I talked with a Chaplain who served in Afghanistan and he was only 1 among 5000 troops. It was tough for him and extremely tough for those he was there to support. I can only imagine what some must be going through over there, doing what they have to do, and then to add on to the fact that they are worrying about their family at home.

Average age of Vietnam vet is in 60's if they make it that long. Middle east campaign soldiers had to deal with a lot of death and destruction, some of those came from other campaigns around the world, including the Nato crap. Which is the new coalitions.

Someone give me an example of a Nato victory since Korea?

Great point! And it bothers me that 20 % of all suicides are veterans...wonder how that stacks up against the percentage of veterans to non- veterans in the general population? Not that it matters, really. The fact that it's that high should be bothering people, more than it is, but it doesn't seem to does it?

How many deaths by suicide, do you suppose they consider acceptable? 100? 500? A Thousand? Some of those thoughts are making my head hurt, too!

Good to see you, Sabretoo. Hope all is well....

Very well said - if 22 soldiers were dying every day in Afghanistan, it would be he top story in the news every night, we'd all know about it and we'd all find it unacceptable. Once they come home, somehow it's acceptable for 22 soldiers to die and the general public isn't even aware... this needs to be the top story in the news, every night.

sabretoo

it bothers me that 20 % of all suicides are veterans...wonder how that stacks up against the percentage of veterans to non- veterans in the general population?

AH, 20% are veterans, 80% are non-veterans. Or am I misreading your post? Are you asking what is the suicide rate of veterans are vs. the suicide rate of non-veterans?

This was from Feb. 2009

"(The suicide rate for non-veterans is 8.3 per 100,000, while the rate for veterans was found to be between 22.9 and 31.9 per 100,000.)"

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500690_162-3496471.html

The overall number of veteran suicides has increased. The overall suicide rate has increased..it just that the rate of civilian suicides has increased a bit faster, so the veteran to civilian ratio has changed...read it again, if you think I'm missing something

Its an ALL VOLUNTEER force.

No one is being forced to join the military. When you take the oath of office you assume the risk.

There are literally THOUSANDS of veterans who have served in war, are missing limbs, have suffered brain injuries and have witnessed the horrors of war - yet these THOUSANDS of veterans are still living and have not committed suicide.

Why the difference? It all boils down to one's personality and mental make-up to be able to provide the right coping skills to deal with adversity and the horrors of war. Those that can't, couldn't to begin with and what they experience in the miltiary just brought it to the surface.

It is ultimately only the PERSON who choses to end their life that is responsible - no one else's, not even the miltiary.

I am a retired 25+ year veteran of the military who served in two wars.

Kimbo...thank you for your service to our country. My husband is career Marine, and while he's had his share of combat injuries, I would never worry about him committing suicide. He's just too SOLID on the ground.

Few soldiers, especially those who only up for a hitch or 2 to get their college paid for, learn to separate their REAL lives from the military part. The ones who do, like my husband can keep the two separate, and not let what happened over there rule his live once he's home.

It IS the person and them alone who make the decision to kill themselves. They are ones not able to deal with things that have happened in combat. Or even in their life in general. Sometimes life just gets too much for them. We like to think we know the reasons why they do it,,but quite often we are only guessing.

This is nothing new Folks. Men have been coming home from war CHANGED I would imagin since War was first waged a million or more years ago.

Correct, and these are the same people who would not have come out squeaky clean from anything awful that might have happened in their lives, war or no war.

Elvis they don't have to find money anymore they just print what ever they want and send the bill to the citizens in the form of Inflation.

Mouser, if you think it's something serious, for your sake, please go see someone else. My husband was having symptoms they didn't consider "serious" enough to get an appointment for six weeks, either. He died a week before the scheduled appointment. Turns out those not serious symptoms? Were signs of a severe sodium deficiency, which led to heart failure.

I have been told that the VA provides excellant care for some people, but so far? I haven't experienced it, with any of the vets in my family. Dennis believed in them, and wouldn't go to anyone else. I know he'd be alive right now, if only he had.

Sabretoo I have been seen I went to my local ER hosptial twice due to the fact the VA ER is over 50 miles away...guess what VA is now saying the won't pay the bills from Civilian ER visits...so I am stuck...I have no car...no way to go to VA in Lake City...even though I live in Jacksonville florida which has a huge retired military pop here due to military bases here...but our VA hosptial is over 50+ miles from here....I am not going to pay those bills sorry tax payers my condtion is related to my disablity but due to my idiot so called doctor trying to get tested and seen for my problems takes me months...

You can go to the VA ER or acute care if you believe you need care right away regardless of what happened at the doctor's office. If you are 100% disabled, you can go to any hospital ER to be seen and the VA will pick up the bill.

If you are not willing to go somewhere else because as you said....you aren't paying for anything - then it must not be that serious.

That is part of the problem - the VA has the burden of caring for every single Tom, Dick and Harry that ever served in uniform even if it was just 6 months and so the system is overburdened.

On top of that put the thousands who have now discovered how easy it is to be diagnosed with PTSD and they don't have enough facilities and doctors to care for the thousands that go in for a hangnail.

I speak from personal experience that thousands of veterans use the VA everyday for conditions that they get disability for, but not conditions that WERE CAUSED by military service - just happened to happen in military service. Thousands of veterans get disability for sleep apnea. Military service DOES NOT CAUSE SLEEP APNEA--google it. But, if it happened on active duty, they get disability for it.

The rules need to be changed so that disability is received only for conditions CAUSED BY MILITARY SERVICE...not because they just happened to come up while in uniform. That would definitely release the VA to concentrate on the actual disabled veterans whose quality of life and life itself depends on their care. Not the vet just trying to get the disability check.

kimbo47's remarks are not correct. the VA will fight tooth and nail to avoid paying for emergency or acute care. In addition, a veteran may end up with credit and financial problems, due to the VA's failures to pay in a timely fashion if they pay at all. I should also say that that the VA welcomed new veterans in recent years, if only for statistical reasons having to do with funding.

The VA's problems go back to before the Korean war, and have been "studied to death". Congress has been unwilling to make serious changes, simply because the changes cost money, and the VA bureaucrats have fought almost any change that really benefits veterans. Many of the VA's proposed changes to date contain "poison pill" provisions that have the potential to reduce veteran's benefits or the numbers of veterans eligibility for benefits. PTSD is nothing new. Recognition and "treatment" is.

A significant number of veteran's suicides are likely related to the "Deny, Delay, and Lowball" VA practices. SSA can decide a disability case for conditions that are obviously military service related in a few months. The SAME case often takes years to resolve with the VA.

The VA's "Fiduciary system" is beyond the pale, and hopelessly outmoded.

VA disability compensation is clearly inadequate, and does not begin to fully compensate for loss of income, let alone all the other costs associated with disability.

In short, veterans fulfilled their part of a contract, and the government(VA) tries to minimize it's duties and responsibility to fulfill the government's part of the bargain.

Now you know how Seniors feel about changes to Medicare and SS. This was a contract we made with the government and paid into with certain understandings of what we would receive and when and now that we are no longer in a situation to make changes in our life to adjust to a Congress we can no longer trust with our lives.

I was actually under the impression that Vets were now going to be able to use the civilian medical facilities to get what care they needed when they couldn't get it from the VA. Has that not happened? That was supposed to be the main reason for getting all the VA medical records on digital record so they would be transportable.

I think the high unemployment rate is probably more of a contributing factor to suicide than any other combination of issues next to a failing marriage. Especially the 50 plus age bracket...

The suicide rate for married service members is 16 per 100,000...

The suicide rate for divorced or seperated service members is 24% HIGHER @ 19 per 100,000...

The US sucide rate is 12 per 100,000...

reference - http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/military/story/2012-07-10/army-study-soldiers-suicides/56136192/1