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Subscribe to RSSSeveral people were killed and dozens more injured on Sunday when a tour bus collided with a truck and a second vehicle on a mountain road east of Los Angeles.
In the aftermath of the tour bus collision near Los Angeles that left at least seven people dead and another 38 injured, investigators and witnesses were still piecing together the grim details on Monday.
The collision, which occurred at about 6:30 p.m. PST Sunday on Highway 38 near Mentone, Calif., about 80 miles east of Los Angeles, involved the tour bus carrying 39 passengers, a truck and a sedan, officers with the California Highway Patrol said.
“It happened so fast, I don’t know how it all happened,” one passenger told the San Bernadino Sun. “This was supposed to be a good day out with my companions and then this happened.”
A victim’s family member identified many of the passengers from Tijuana, Mexico, who were returning from a skiing and snowboarding trip at the Big Bear Mountain Resort when the bus began swerving.
Surviving passengers aboard the bus said they heard noises they thought were the breaks and smelled something burning and then watched in horror as the bus weaved in and out of traffic for up to three minutes, trying to avoid cars, NBCLosAngeles.com reported.
“I saw a headlight in my rear-view mirror,” Betty Harvey, a witness, told NBCLosAngeles.com. “I moved over and he went flying past. He was swerving all the way down.”
The bus hit a car, then flipped, flinging some passengers 20 feet away from the bus. There was significant damage to the passenger's side of the bus, Ronald Walls, a battalion chief at the San Bernardino County Fire Department, said.
Passengers said the bus driver was stuck under a rock, before he was rescued. CHP Officer Mario Lopez said the driver told investigators the bus suffered brake problems as it headed down the mountain.
Firefighters worked to extricate people from the bus and emergency crews set up triage areas in a "mass casualty" situation, Eric Sherwin, with the San Bernardino County Fire Department told NBCLosAngeles.com
California Department of Transportation spokeswoman Michelle Profant said the scene after the crash was shocking.
"It's really a mess up there with body parts," Profant told The Associated Press.
Terri Kasinga of the California Department of Transportation described the crash as the worst she's seen in 23 years working for the agency, NBCLosAngeles.com reported.
Nick Ut / Associated Press
San Bernardino investigators examine wreckage on Feb. 4 after a tour bus accident in the Southern California mountains near San Bernardino. The accident killed at least 8 people on Sunday.
CHP officials said there was concern the death toll could rise because some passengers sustained life-threatening injuries. Exact ages of the injured and dead were not immediately known.
The CHP was still on the scene Monday, attempting to determine what led to the deadly crash.
“Speed was probably a factor,” CHP Officer Mario Lopez told NBCLosAngeles.com. “We do not know if there was a mechanical failure or driver error. That’s what investigators at the scene are going to determine.”
Lopez said the bus is owned by Scapadas Magicas LLC, which is based in National City, Calif., and is also listed in Tijuana, Mexico.
The National Transportation Safety Board said Monday they sent a team to investigate the crash.
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Pray that there will be no more injury and deaths.
Condolences and prayers go to the victims' family and friends.
How sad. How is it that brakes just suddenly "go out" on vehicles? No emergency brakes? Nothing? I can't even imagine the horror.
A very sad situtation. My condolences for the families of the deceased, wishes for quick recoveries for the injured, and prayers for all.
Hate to say, but, the article said the bus was returning to Tijuana, Mexico. My first thought is lack of maintenance on the bus.
Sure hope I'm wrong....
Mountain roads overheat brakes. When brake fluid boils it causes air bubbles in the system and then its no brakes. I see it with motor homes in my area all the time.
Another "black" mark on Obummers record.
yo Rick, that the case with air brakes? me thinks not...
and cock Cheney, you sir are a moron.
ugh, why do these comment sections always devolve to an idiotic, name-calling session?
Because some folk lack even the most basic of cognitive power to form an intelligent comment. Thereby they are prone to allowing the refuse that generally fills their skull to spill out all over the keyboard like a cat coughing up a fur ball. And like a cat coughing fur balls, it's disgusting, probably smells bad, but you can't be angry with them because you know they can't help it. It's just the nature of the beast.
This is really sad. I could be wrong but if there were 39 passengers on the bus and 4 passengers in the other 2 vehicles = 43, yet they state 8 dead and 38 injured = 46. Am I missing something. Do the math.
I live approx a mile and a half from the accident and the local paper this morning is saying 8 dead, 15 seriously injured and 7 with moderate to light injuries.
In the cdl training it tells you to use one gear lower than it took to pull up the hill or mountain when you go down. This is for newer trucks as they have less friction in the system to give better performance and mileage. You should slow down well below the desired speed to give cooling time before reapplying the brakes. It's not just fluid that makes the brakes fail. Some cars will do the same thing. Think about how your brakes work. The brake pads claps down on a metal disk and friction causes the car/truck to stop. You will have the best friction if the pads and disk are cold as they will be harder. When they get hot to the point of melting down there is little if any friction. If you can smell your brakes then there is a reason to feel they may fail.
Isn't the rule on a steep grade to always use the next gear down, no matter the kind of car or truck?
Many years ago it did say use the same gear. But for the last 25 years they say to use one lower gear or the gear needed to maintain slightly lower than your desired speed and assist with the brakes. Bring your speed well below the desired speed and allow the brakes to cool. Not word for word it's been 25 years ago when I took it and things do change I'm sure.
When it comes to using park or reverse. You will not be able to put a manual or auto transmission in park or reverse when moving forward at a high speed. In fact if you try to move to a lower gear running at a high speed you may never get it in gear. It's very dangerous to try and down shift in this position. Many times it can cause a full freewheeling runaway. Slow it down below the speed of the gear you want to shift to that will give you a chance to get it in gear.
Winker-2891142
Add a driver for each vehicle. The driver is not usually considered a passenger.
Did they check to see if it had te Tijuana Safety Inspection Sticker in the window?
This is probably the fault of NAFTA. Mexican trucks and Buses can operate inside the USA without the restraints of California registration and inspection. We were warned about this by Teamsters etc. If it turns out to be a lack of proper maintenance we need to end NAFTA. Its a major source of Illegal aliens coming into the US also. They only check every 6th truck at the border. How hard is it to count and make sure your #1-2-3-4-5 line so you wont get checked? Not hard at all.
In the 80s I used to take weekly bus trips to Big Bear for Thursday night skiing and can vouch for the ride down that road at night. Thankfully we always had good drivers that used proper gearing and speed. Its a real windy road and if you're not using the gears to maintain a slow decent your going to burn out the brakes. Id really have a problem with a mexican driver from Tijuana driving that road.
I may have solved the riddle 39 Bus passengers + 4 passengers of 2 vehicles + 3 drivers = 46
I pray that my math is correct. /s/
This bus had air brakes. An engine driven compressor produces the air. If the compressor fails or there is an air leak in the brake system an audio alarm will sound and a warning light will light "if they are working" to notify the driver of the low air pressure situation. When air pressure decreases and the alarms go off the rule of thumb is to stop the vehicle as soon as possible. When the air pressure decreases to a low point the brakes will automatically engage (maxi brakes) and the vehicle will come to a skidding stop. If the driver was speeding down this mountain road and the maxi brakes activated due to extremely low air pressure, well buses and trucks don't stop on a dime and will skid for many many feet while swerving of course.
They were able to hear their thoughts break when the BRAKES failed.
Yep, better check those 18 wheelers coming across the border and onto our streets.
Yep, better check those 18 wheelers coming across the border and onto our streets.
Excessive speed will be found to be the major factor in this crash; that and driver inexperience and maybe too many passengers. The brakes faded because he was riding them too hard. When they glow red, they are of no use. That's why he was weaving in and out of traffic. I would lay odds that the drivers he passed would say they saw brake lights - probably solid - as the bus sped past. The driver never gave them a chance to cool on the way down the hill, so when he needed them, they weren't there.
I believe driver error will be found the likely cause of this horrible crash.
I've never heard of brake fluid boiling, especially from using the brakes. The brake PADS are what usually get hot and fail, fluid or air system.
If the pads got that hot there is no stopping power, fluid or air. Air system brakes do deploy at low pressure, but if shoes are hot, it wouldn't matter. It would keep rolling just as if no brakes were applied.
Him swerving is probably trying to avoid hitting other vehicles after he lost his brakes due to overheating and no stopping power.
Being in a lower gear is your safest bet, but depending on how much weight is pushing you down the hill, how long of a decline you are in and level of driver skill, the engine could eventually over-rev to the point of blowing the engine and then you would lose whatever stopping power you had from engine compression.
It is not a fun feeling going down a mountain with no brakes. I learned that first hand and luckily no one got hurt and I got the truck stopped. He didn't have much time to re-act to anything other than avoiding vehicles going down the hill.
It's sad people died but, be thankful more didn't die. DOT shut them down after inspecting the buses. One of the reasons was mechanical defaults. I'm betting, at a minimum, the brakes were out of adjustment and maybe even too thin. The thinner the shoe the more the heat cannot dissipate good enough to avoid failure.
Sounds like they were smelling the brakes smoking due to that. Noises could have been brake parts falling off or anything else.
We will know more when the inspection and investigations are over.
It seems you hear more and more of these tour buses having horrific accidents! Aren't these driver's safety trained? Seems like everyday you hear about some tour bus crashing!
It's a big world and the internets report tragedy. It's interesting when people die. :(
That's pretty much it flocker. In today's instant media world, we are just seeing what always happened, but never got to read about in our local paper or see reported on our rabbit-eared tube TVs 40 years ago on the local 6pm news before 24-hour CNN cable news was even a thought in Turner's head. So naturally, people just assume that there are more bus crashes, more apartment fires, more plane crashes, more train derailments, and more tornadoes that are killing today than they were 30 or 40 years ago before the internet and fingertip news at our beckoned call. Now shootings, that's another subject.
The subject of my comment was the exploitation of tragedy. Murders perpetrated with guns and the phenomena of mass shootings fall into that category. What is your point?
10tacle is right, now that we live in an age of information at our fingertips all these things seem grotesquely out of proportion. Suddenly we see and hear about more death and violence. The news eats this up now days because it's all there is. Fluffy feel good pieces of the boy saving a box full of kittens from a house fire won't gain the attention a bus full of people dying would. People want the grotesque and the horrifying.
....."dirty laundry" Don Henley.....so true
jeepygal- if you read the article, it says the brakes went out. Nothing to do with driver training.
After reading the headlines of the last 24 hr I can’t help but think that today is going to be another “rough” day. Then again, this is no different to what we’ve been exposed to on a daily basis.
- Eight dead, 38 injured as tour bus crashes on mountain road east of Los Angeles
- Slain bus driver mourned as Alabama hostage standoff drags on
- Boy hid in closet while intruders ransacked home – and the closet
- Police: Florida mom forced to watch estranged husband kill their sons
- ‘American Sniper’ author Chris Kyle fatally shot at Texas gun range
- Cops: Teen threw boy, 9, off Bronx roof
- After Superstorm Sandy seniors forced to start over
- Funeral arrangements set for Hadyia Pendleton, teen shot in Chicago
Welcome to America!
The bus was from Tijuana. Who KNOWS what training the driver had, or what kind of vehicle inspections were done?
10tacle...
Sad but true. There really is more of all of that. It's not just the media thing...
There are more planes, trains and automobiles, and crazy people doing crazy things. Because there are so many more people.
There are over 312 Million people in the US when you figure the actual pecentages it is not actually all as rough as you are led to believe.
Having been in the bus business for over 25 years I can tell you that the most common cause of brakes going out is driver error, they ride the brakes coming down a hill until they are hot and then they become non functional. Mexican buses as I recall are not required to adhere to the same safety standards on US buses. Let's just wait and see what the cause is before we get all excited. It certainly could be driver error or bus malfunction.
yeah, just the other day a Too Tall bus hit an overpass killing several, and injuring people; what's up with buss drivers/companies?
Years ago, my father-in-law was bringing us down from Big Bear in his conversion van, the first trip up there for us all. He was braking - too much - and we had to pull over because the brakes were literally smoking. That's the first time I'd ever heard of brake fluid boiling.
My kids and their friends go snowboarding at Big Bear all the time, and we advised them on how to come down, to not ride their brakes.
Condolences to the families and friends that were on that bus from Mexico, so tragic.
You guys realize that tour buses from Mexico that give tours in the US have to meet the same safety and maintenance standards as any other licensed US tour bus, right?
Bow2me
And then there's what happened here, going down a mountain road, the brakes fail. It's not an unexpected occurrence, hence the runaway ramps and gravel pits built into roads with steep grades. I've been on that road to Big Bear dozens of times, the downhill grade is pretty extreme (I set it in third and let the engine do some of the work), but I don't think I'd ever want to take a bus there...
It's an odd setting, gorgeous scenery, beautiful backdrop, but when you get to the bottom of the grade on a weekend, it just smells like burnt brakes....
Heart goes out to the families, very tragic.
I'm not going to blame the bus driver, sounds like he did everything in his power to try to keep his passenger's safe. Sh@#$ happens, people.
Having the same standards/requirements is not the same as compliance. Trust me, they do not inspect every one of those tour buses that crosses the border.
They actually do get federal inspections. They can't operate in the US without it. Not saying that helps. This particular firm has had over 2/3 of their federal inspections in the past two years flagged and needing repair. Unfortunately, that's actually about on par for the course for most tour buses.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/04/tour-bus-crash-southern-california_n_2613300.html
That and the company is actually out of National City, California. It just had the tour pickup from Tijuana and going up to big bear. But sure, let's rip on Mexico, why not.
I believe a National ban on buses is in order. Or at least buses with fewer seats.
wtw - I would like to see the headlines from other countries!!! I don't know why you think all of this and MORE does not happen in other countries? Maybe you should check out their news and see whats going on!!! I would venture to guess that all of these horrible things are nothing to some of them and they would not even report it!!! Here are your headlines that they wouldn't report:
Today in the news 100 young girls between the ages of 4 and 10 had their genitals cut out so they can be more readily accepted by their future husbands and families while half of them were planning to marry next week! In other news another 100 women were killed today for various reasons from looking at a boy to reading a book. They were murdered by their families by being held down by their mothers and sisters while being stabbed to death!
This is just a sample of some of the things that happen and they do NOT report these things because they are not considered news. They are accepted and happen on a daily basis! I think you need to go live there!
It does not matter how many seats are on a bus if there is even one passenger on board who has a hand gun. That passenger can suddenly snap and instantly kill everyone on board, including the driver. If the driver gets shot, we're all goners and anyone in a vehicle near the bus probably is, too.
I'd personally ban the hand gun before I banned the bus.
Yeah, and how many people around the world were just shot in the genitals with hand guns because some whacko thought it would be funny to shoot a man below the belt? Nothing hurts a guy more than hurting his little guy.
Yeah, but if a few others had legal handguns a lot fewer souls would be lost when the first jacka$$ got blown away right after he opened fire. Ban the gun? Then the jacka$$ will think "Oh, my! Guns are illegal! I can't keep my illegal handgun! I have to turn it in right away!" Dream on.
In any case, this isn't a gun issue it's a public safety issue regarding whether this bus was operated unsafely or had a mechanical failure. What does a gun have to do with it?
Odd that nobody has brought politics into it yet...
Oh wait, they have.
Niece1964...2.22
Hello. I took your advice and Googled and copy/paste current news headlines from Europe and the UK, in the order they appeared on their respective web sites. Here they are:
From Europe
Russell Group warns over research funding
MPS bailout puts Draghi mission in focus
Georgian wine to flow as Russia lifts ban
Moscow casino owner denounces prosecutors
Probe links football match-fixing scams
US tech groups criticised for EU lobbying
Iceland: Under the volcano
Now is the winter of EUR discontent
EU leaders seek seven-year budget deal
From the UK
Building sector continues to suffer
Cameron reasserts green policy agenda
Car park skeleton confirmed as Richard III
Dennis drives McLaren beyond F1
BP faces year-long wait for spill closure
EDF insists nuclear plans on track
Huhne faces jail after guilty plea
A crisis needs a firewall not a ring fence
Slow but certain progress on banks
Government to open up payments system
You must agree they read somewhat differently to ours. Perhaps our news editors have a reason for publishing the material they do. Or, maybe they are trying to tell us something, indirectly!? Whatever it is, it does nothing to enhance our image with readers, wherever in the world they may be.
As for your 100 girls/100 women examples, that’s terrible but it highlights how much remains to be done in some parts of the world, before we can draw an “equal footing” comparison with a nation like ours.
As for your suggestion “I think you need to go live there!”, NO, this is my home and this is where I stay. But, I hope you can see that the roof over our heads is leaking and needs fixing not tolerating.
Seat belts in a plane, but none in a bus including school buses. Makes perfect sense to me.
I agree, it's time we started putting seat belts on buses.
School bus seats would seem a good idea, the reason most don't, I've read, is that one bus driver might have to try to unbelt too many kids, to free them in a worst case scenario.
Most modern tour buses to have lap belts. City buses don't, but the big tour buses for intercity travel often do.
Look at that wreck. Do you really think seat belts would have helped anyone in that mess?
It rolled, but it didn't crush. The overall structure was maintained. In rollovers, the most common fatal injury is from the person falling up (when the vehicle flips on its back) and hitting the roof, breaking their neck. Seatbelts restrain them in one place. Believe it or not, rollovers, when seatbelts are used, are one of the safer vehicle accidents, because much of the vehicles kinetic energy is used up in the rollover, and not transferred to the passengers.
So yes, seatbelts would likely have saved some lives in this situation. That being said, it is more than likely that this bus did have seatbelts, as the majority of tour buses do. Just because there are seatbelts doesn't mean people use them.
Someone in my traffic school class who was ticketed for a seat belt violation was bitching about buses (including school buses) not having seat belts and our CHP instructor said buses don't have them because statistically they have so fewer injury accidents.
So far this year, buses have killed and mamed 86 people.
Since we're so hellbent on banning things, let's BAN BUSES!
You are a paranoid fool, yes mam.
airbags on every bus seat...we need to get the federal gov. involved in this..form a committee or something...a task force. yeah..thats the ticket... another thing the king can stick his nose into.
Every single article...every one...some schmuck has to go and comment about "banning something" that has nothing to do with anything. YES, we've all heard it before. YES, we're sick of it. YES, it's really getting old. hahahaha let's ban this...hahahaha let's ban that....hahahaha. As if that will win you any kind of argument opposing gun control.
Famous - Well said. Some clowns are just compelled to keep beating on the same drum and yes, it gets real tired. Many hijack any subject to continue to bash our President and interject non-related items into a discussion. The President won again. Those that didn't get their way, get over it. Getting back to the article here....... It's very sad to read this regardless where the bus or the people were from. We can only hope that more safety checks can be implemented to avoid buses leaving their stations or even at the border to ensure that failures don't happen. Condolences to the families of the victims.
Comparing the amount of people killed on tour buses with the amount of people killed by firearms is a legitimate comparison, It would seem that there have been more people killed on tour buses than with assault rifles so why are we considering banning one and not the other.
Ban high capacity tour buses!
Well, 5 dead in Benghazi in a war zone and we formed committees, knashed our teeth..How can this happen? I mean dead soldiers in a war zone, where there is a civil war? Ho? waahhhhh say Republicans.
@Jay
Does that mean every time a gun leaves a gunshop, it kills someone?? Not following your logic here.
86 people have been killed on buses out of how many buses. It is a rhetorical question but I'm sure it is astromically higher than the ratio of people that have died from guns.
Think - You are correct. People take a subject and go off on a tangent such as introducing politics and banning into bus crashes. And you were able to introduce the president winning an election and losers still being sore about it. So what exactly was your point?
another one they just had one in boston mass.
Brake failure and slamming into an overpass are 2 different types of accidents.
The bus should have never been on that road that is considered the back way to Big Bear. There is a much better safer road that goes up through San Bernardino, and has two lanes in a lot of places. Highway 38 is very steep winding winding and I would guess the bus could not stay in it's own lane and crossed into the other lane causing the accident... . I have seen it many times, fortunately without accidents. I almost crashed once myself many years ago on that Highway
Ok Other article says brake problems
cannot imagine a tour bus on 38.....can be a bit scarey even in a car.....and downhill, no wonder the brakes failed.
LyneeM123,I agree that this is the worst route that he could have taken.He was probably riding the brakes and caused them to burn out.Tragic anyway you look at it.
Terrible tragedy and thoughts and prayers for the victims.
We should ban tour busses!!! When will the madness stop?!?!? ... Sorry. I do not mean to jest during a tragedy, and senseless loss of life is tragic. My condolences, for what they are worth. ... But, we should really ban high-capacity tour busses.
We should make sure they are operational with a trained driver. What if your wife and kids were hit by a bus with no brakes, drnk driver? Then it would be sumthin gotta be done.
I wish that the CHP would listen to me . I have tried to tell them about the abuses by Charter bus dispatchers who keep bus drivers out long past their legal limit of alotted hours. Then when a tragedy like this occurs, the bus driver gets blamed.
You've confused the hell out of me cactus. Where in the article does it insinuate that the bus driver was suffering from fatigue? Also, who's blaming the bus driver? The article mentions in a few different places that the driver complained about the brakes and there was an odor. The wild ride went on for 3 minutes prior to the crash. Are we reading the same article or are you shooting from the hip? If you ever want the CHP to listen to you, you've got to do your homework first and then think about making your point.
Well aint this a nice story to cry in your popcorn bowl with.
Thanks for the compassion. We all appreciate your deadbeat and worthless comment.
You cannot ban everything that causes death. Death is inevitable. When it is your turn to go it is your turn. This may sound cold but it is the truth. Be it plane crash, car accident, shooting, disease, drowning or murder. Many ways to die. Such is life.
You can't ban uprisinings in a war zone either so forget about Benghazi
The people should have taken a train! No trains?? Then don't go if you can't afford a car! We need to demand an adequate passenger rail system in the USA as they have in Britain, Japan, France, China, Spain, South Korea, Germany, Taiwan, Switzerland, India, Italy, Austria, Holland, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Norway, etc., etc. Rail is the safest, most efficient, least polluting, and most comfortable form of transport known to man. The USA is being left behind in the area of high-speed rail systems by many world nations! We need prompt positive aggressive action from BOTH citizens and the government. If other nations, especially little mountainous Switzerland, can have excellent rail systems covering their entire nation with fast frequent service, then the USA should be able to do the same! But citizens must DEMAND this, or the government, especially Republicans, will not listen! Rail naysayers need not respond!
We need to remove death-trap busses from our roads! Apparently, Mexican busses are not well maintained!
Just watched this story on First Look, and Veronica De La Cruz said the bus accident happened in the mountains "west" of Los Angeles. Uh, no. The ocean is west of Los Angeles, the accident happened in San Bernardino, way EAST of Los Angeles.... Is there an editor on that show?
It represents the declining educational level in the USA!
E K. You're not kidding. Extremely true statement! Sad.
Why this mountainous highway in the US has no emergency exit (a small, 500-1000 ft gravel road parallel to the main high way to slow the out-of-control vehicle then a small hill of gravel) to stop it? May be the USA is too poor to do some thing like that!!!
We have several of them here in Colorado
That's because it is not a "highway" in the sense that most people would think of. We're talking about a road that is 2-4 lanes wide (total) and just happens to go on from town to town, so California gave it a highway number and state maintenance. Unfortunately, ALL of the roads to Big Bear/Lake Arrowhead are like that (they are up on a ridge northeast of San Bernardino), so take your pick.
I've been on 38 (among other times, I helped a friend install a sign at a B&B in Forest Falls, just uphill from the accident site) and due to the terrain, there really isn't anywhere you could put a turnoff lane like that. Hillsides are too steep and rocky. (I know what you're talking about, there's one about an hour from my house on I-8).
Isn't there signs that read ALL Trucks and Buses ues low gear going down!
The driver should have left it in gear and cut the engine off then applied the emergency break. Usually when breaks go out its the front breaks and not the back breaks or emergency breaks.
First hand knowledge because you were there?
It's "brakes," not "breaks."
Bill, I'm a retired safety director for a trucking/bus company. That procedure of shutting off the engine won't work. The root problem was the driver didn't have the training or experience to be driving on a downgrades. He over heated the brakes, they faded and lost their stopping power and he crashed. The govn should require mandatory training and experience for all truck and bus drivers on mountain grades. It is a skill you have to know to control your transmission gearing and brake applying pedal pressure. When you go over the Grapevine steep pass north of Los Angeles they have warning speed limit signs for big rigs. They will fine drivers for speeding and not being in the slow lane.
Large trucks and buses usually have air brakes, The diesel engine runs a compressor that generates air pressure to operate the brakes, usually when the air pressure is lost the brakes go on automatically, So if the brakes failed that would mean that either somehow the compressor overrode all the brake chambers or that all of the brake shoes were completly worn out or as new tampa resident pointed out the driver overheated the brakes resulting in their failure, Air brakes work on the principle that they require the engine to be operating the compressor to release the brakes.
V Nugent..
East coast has them..I-81 between Virginia and Pennsylvania...they were put in for run-away rigs, but anyone in trouble can use them...
No idea why there aren't more of them. Over the years, during my travels, there have been several times I've thought to myself...hmm this would be a great place for an escape ramp.....
Heading south along Hwy 38 their is a drop off on the right side of the road and no place to put a ramp.
There are several in southern California, a couple of them within an hour of the accident site... but they are on more major highways that are designed to be used by freight trucks. 38 is more of a country road that is designated a highway due to its length and usefulness.
If people living near Hwy. 38 state that there is no good place to put escape ramps then why do people keep questioning? Google maps and look at the terrain, then write where you would build a ramp.
This route is not a highway like people think of in terms of highways.It is steep mountainous terrain with no room for a turnout or emergency vehicle stopping.I was born and raised in San Bernardino. For people not familiar with California our mountains are considered hills by people who live in Montana and rightly so.This tour driver should have taken the other route,one more conducive to buses.
I can see that the gun nut/Tea Party/xenophobe/anti-government/conspiracist/...types are trying to hijack yet another legitimate newsworthy story about a tragedy that happened in our country, so I'll go ahead and float my own conspiracy theory: A bus full of Mexicans on a ski trip to a California mountain resort? I bet somepne who fancies himself "reel Chrischun, tru Amuhrican patriet" saw that tour bus stopped somewhere on their way to Big Bear, watched all the passengers coming out speaking Spanish, got scared, realized he had accidentally left his piece at home, got enraged about that, and so sneaked around and cut their brake lines and somehow also disabled the emergency brake while no one was watching.
Your dreaming go back to sleep.
Since "your" is the possessive (shows ownership) of the pronoun "you," I can only infer that you meant to say "you're," which is the contraction for "you are." No charge for the (American) English grammar lesson.
Yea Jack, that's it. Someone cut the air lines and the bus was able to just drive away with the wheels locked.
RIP, you poor souls.
Big trucks and big buses have the same type of braking system. Large drum brakes that are air actuated. These types of brakes work very well at stopping large loads, until they get hot. Once they start to get hot they experience brake fade. If they get hot enough they will quit working. Most truck drivers know that you should select a correct gear when going down a hill and only use the brakes when necessary. Usually the same gear you went up the hill in should be chosen when going down hill. Generally, these brakes just don't go out. I wasn't there and don't know the whole story, but would be interested in seeing the drivers work history.
Prayers to the affected families.
Sounds like we are both in the trucking/bus industry, I'm just glad the driver didn't kill all them on the Grapevine downgrade. I suspect like you the driver did not have any training or experience on mountain downgrade braking or gearing. Shame on the govn for not requiring the training as a pre curser to driving others around.
And how many times has anyone seen a bus being pulled over for a safety inspection? Better yet, how many times has anyone seen a bus pulled over for anything other than breaking down?
The only dumb question is the one that's not asked, so here I go. Do large tour buses have automatic or manual transmissions? Can they be downshifted? Does engine braking work in automatic transmissions? I'm an aircraft mechanic, not a truck or bus mechanic. Buses and trucks don't have thrust reversers! I think.
We must ban tour buses...they are killing too many people.....
Chris, See my comment today at 8:01 AM, I tried to give a little insight from my experience as a trucking/bus company safety director that the drivers need downgrade braking training. Don't ride with anyone that has not been trained and has proven experience.
Jeff
To those who have stated or implied that there is a "Mexican connection" to this bus accident: I am an American who has lived on the Pacific coast of central Mexico for 12 years, and frequently travel on buses, which are the primary mode of transportation for inter-city travelers. Nearly all of the buses are late model, state of the art, turbo diesel Volvos, Mercedes Benz or Italian coaches which are well maintained and driven by professional drivers. The new ones now have seat belts. This cannot be said for the U.S., where bus travel is a secondary mode of transportation, and many older, poorly maintained buses are on the road, mostly operated by small, tour and charter companies who skimp on maintenance. Americans love to wag their fingers at Mexico, but in this case, it would have to be an American owned tour bus, subject to licensing and inspection by U.S. authorities, else it would not have been operating on U.S. highways. Too bad the victims were Mexicans, who expect better government regulations. BTW, Mexicana Airlines has the best safety record of all the major airlines. Please get your facts straight people, before voicing an opinion.
Robert - Maybe the buses actually in Mexico are great, but the tour buses I've seen between San Diego and LA are usually NOT high quality, look more like cast-offs from days gone by. And more than once we have wondered, as a tour bus with Baja plates goes smoking along - how does that thing pass inspection??
Yeah... I live in San Diego and the worst drivers (not just buses but in general) often seem to have Mexican plates, and a healthy disregard for basic traffic safety (like making a right turn across four lanes of traffic from a left-turn-only lane). That and the one private bus company that has a rep for hiring the people who got fired by the other bus companies (including the one I work for).
I too like Mr Hill lived many years near Mexico and witnessed just the opposite in regards to busses and trucks entering the US from Mexico. I've seen many busses break down and have to wait for hours in the hot sun for the passengers to be rescued,break problems,transmission problems,over heating. In the last few years the US has started doing inspections on these vehicles at the border so things have improved.
Robert Hill,I have flown on Mexicana airlines back in the 1970's.The best crew,the best hospitality and food compared to every other airline that I have flown on.And they were on schedule.The buses on the central coast are not in the same league as the ones on the California border.The ones coming in from Tijuana are not as modern as the ones where you reside and their drivers are not very experienced.
Time for more laws to be passed to cover up the real problem: Idiots who don't do what they're supposed to be doing.
True Steve, they will let anyone get a CDL big rig bus license, but the govn does not make it mandatory that the drivers have to have mountain downgrade driver training. That lapse just cost these peoples lives. So frustrating to see this weakness in the transportation industry. Like gun laws too. I like guns and all of mine are in my home in locked safes, with the ammo in a separate locked safe. I also have trigger guards on all the guns so no one can fire them. If the govn and the NRA would just agree to make it a law that any at home guns need to have the trigger locks on them all those poor kids at the school might be here today. The trigger locks are $6 each, such a simple fix to a deadly problem. So frustrating we pay the politicians our tax money for being inept like the seem to always be. Have a good day.
@NewTampaResident
And in the event your firearms are needed what will you do, ask the home invaders (Of course those events never happen, right?) to kindly wait, possibly sitting at the kitchen table having a soft drink, beer or maybe a cup of coffee or tea, while you open your safe, select a firearm and then open another safe, select the proper ammunition and load your firearm in an effort to defend yourself, your loved ones and property?
I'm NOT denigrating your intent, in fact, all firearms I own, with the exception of the one I carry are also locked in a safe with ammo in another. And those safes, are bolted to the floor.
But the issue at hand is not firearms, it is an inexperienced driver, being on a road that many have apparently indicated should not be used by trucks or other big vehicles, and unfortunately minimal maintenance.
Ban busses,guns,pencils, spoons,McDonalds,32oz. drinks,freedom of speach and religion,homos,lesbos,doritos,right to bear arms,fried chicken and tater tots! Hell, we are banning everything else, just ban everything and be done with it!
Amen, like Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead said, "I used to be disgusted, now I am just amused".
And Ban the "DUCKS" from ever having to play against Bama too. That way they can continue to believe they are number #1.
Amen, like Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead said, "I used to be disgusted, now I am just amused".
I believe it was Elvis Costello who said that. The proper quote is "Well, I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused..." It's from his song (The Angels Wanna Wear My) Red Shoes.
May the Souls of the Faithful, Departed through the Mercy of God Rest in Peace. And let the Perpetual light shine upon them. May their souls rest in peace. Amen. May God Bless their souls. May God give the strength and courage to the Families and relatives of the deceased to bear this huge loss. May God give the Strength and Courage to the Injured to Recover and Heal Quickly. May God be with them. GOD Bless the Americans. GOD Bless the USA.
Kevin Valentine Moraes
Mira Road (Thane)
Thank you NAFTA for allowing unmonitored use of American roadways by foreign companies.
I am a retired trucking and bus company Safety Director. I want to let all you people that are not big rig drivers know that you should not worry about the brakes on these big rigs ever time you hear of a wreck like this and assume that big rigs all have bad brakes. The cause of the wreck is the drivers inexperience and not being trained on how to properly control his speed and braking on long downgrades. If a driver is going too fast and applies the brakes too long and too hard they overheat and fade and loose their stopping power. Plus big rigs with transmissions need to be in a low gear going slow to avoid the brakes over heating. The investigators will examine the brakes for defects, but I suspect from the comments made by the other riders of seeing and smelling smoke that the driver tried to slow down when he found himself going too fast on the down grade and he over heated the brake shoes. The investigation will show if the shoes are scorched. They need to make sure all these drivers are trained on mountain grade driving. All of you in Los Angeles when you go north over the Grapevine with its steep grades you will see signs that warn big rig drivers to be in the slow lane and they will be ticketed for speeding over a slow speed limit. If any of you ever ride in a big rig semi or bus or anything larger than a car, always ask your driver if he or she has mountain downgrade braking experience and most importantly training. Don't leave your life to chance of an inexperienced driver. I learned how to to drive over the Grapevine over 40 years by driving with and experienced senior driver who instructed me how to use the proper low transmission gears and how to properly apply the brakes at the correct time to control and maintain the proper low speed so as not to over heat the brakes. It takes a few trips to perfect the correct technique you just can't say you have a Class A CDL license and jump in a bus and know how to control it in a steep downgrade. Most anyone can driver on flat dry roads ,it's the rain, snow, and downgrades that you need skill to driver on. Have a good week everyone and be safe.
Always good to hear from someone who knows about the subject and can add more than I can - which is along the lines of 'ain't it awful'. Appreciate it Newtamparesident.
The driver here managed to get the bus down the steep part of highway 38. My guess is he put it in a high gear once he got to the relatively shallow grade along Mill Creek. but he didn't realize his brakes were cooked until his speed wouldn't allow him to grab a lower gear. There's no good spots to ditch a speeding bus before he hit that car. but he wasn't going to slow done anywhere on that stretch of road until he got to Redlands.