E-mail updates
Follow on Twitter
Subscribe to RSSChris Kyle survived several tours of duty in Iraq, becoming the military's most deadly sniper, only to be shot and killed at a Glen Rose, Tex., shooting range over the weekend along with friend Chad Littlefield. Police have arrested a suspect, Eddie Lee Routh, a former Marine. NBC's Lester Holt reports.
The former top Navy SEAL sniper who authorities say was killed at a Texas shooting range was devoted to maintaining camaraderie and helping his fellow veterans find their way after leaving active duty.
Chris Kyle, author of the best-selling book "American Sniper," and his friend Chad Littlefield apparently were doing just that Saturday when, officials say, they were shot and killed by former Marine Eddie Ray Routh.
Kyle, 38, had left the Navy in 2009 after four tours of duty in Iraq, where he earned a reputation as one of the military's most lethal snipers. But he quickly found a way to maintain contact with his fellow veterans and pass on what had helped him work through his own struggles. By late 2011, he filed the paperwork to establish the nonprofit FITCO Cares, which received its nonprofit status the following spring, said FITCO director Travis Cox.
"Chris struggled with some things," Cox said. "He'd been through a lot and he handled it with grace, but yeah he did struggle with some things. And he found a healthy outlet and was proactive in his approach to deal with those issues and wanted to help spread his healing, what worked for him, to others. And that's what he died doing."
For Kyle that healthy outlet was exercise. At the heart of FITCO was giving in-home fitness equipment to physically and emotionally wounded veterans, as well as families who had lost a veteran, Cox said.
Littlefield, a 35-year-old friend and neighbor, was Kyle's "workout buddy," and also volunteered his time to work with veterans, Cox said. He was married and had children as well.
"He's a very gentle, sweet-hearted man, just a great man, kind of quiet," Cox said of Littlefield. "He just really cared. ... He wanted to do whatever he could to help veterans and help see that vision of serving others that Chris had. He shared that vision with all of us. He was a great man."
Cox said he understood that Kyle and Littlefield were helping Routh work through his own PTSD, but that he did not know how they came into contact. He said it was not a FITCO session.
Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant on Sunday offered a similar description of the situation.
"It's my understanding that the suspect may have been suffering from some type of mental illness from being in the military himself," he said of Routh.
He said Routh's mother may have reached out to Kyle for help with her son.
"We kind of have an idea that maybe that's why they were at the range for some type of therapy that Mr. Kyle assists people with," Bryant said.
A Marine allegedly turned his gun on two friends – including Chris Kyle, a celebrated Navy SEAL – at a gun range on Saturday. NBC's Lester Holt reports.
Bryant didn't know whether Routh was on any medication or whether he had been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder.
Authorities say the three men arrived at the Rough Creek Lodge southwest of Fort Worth around 3:15 p.m. Saturday. A hunting guide discovered the bodies of Kyle and Littlefield around 5 p.m. and called 911.
Routh allegedly left in Kyle's pickup and went to his sister's in Midlothian. He told what he had done and left. She called police and Routh was eventually found at his home in Lancaster. After a short pursuit he was arrested.
Routh was being held on $3 million bail in the Erath County Jail. Authorities said they believed he had requested a court-appointed attorney. Calls to his home were not answered Sunday.
Kyle was also president of a security training firm Craft International. Craft had scheduled a $2,950-per-person civilian training event at Rough Creek Lodge called the "Rough Creek Shoot Out!" for March 1-3. The price included lodging, meals and shooting instruction. Kyle was scheduled to teach the first class, called "precision rifle."
But the work with veterans through FITCO was Kyle's passion, Cox said.
FITCO Cares offered life coaching for veterans, a daily support group and weekly group counseling. Sometimes veterans in other states would video conference in to counseling sessions, Cox said.
Kyle was always recognized at events, but would deflect attention to other veterans, quickly introducing and praising those around him.
"That camaraderie is usually missed once the veteran gets out of the military," said Cox, himself a former Marine sniper. "The authentic relationships that you develop in the military, especially overseas and in combat are some of the most meaningful, authentic relationships that one can have and it's missed. And so we tried to create a means through this group of veterans that can gather and talk about things that they're dealing with."
"He (Kyle) didn't have any fear at all as far as working with an extreme case," Cox said. "Just like in combat he would take it on head on and do whatever he could to give these guys assistance. There was no fear in helping anyone that may have an extreme case. He was willing to help anyone in need."
Leave a Comment:
This is really sad that these two guys tried to work with another veteran and it ended up like this!
It sucks that these guys were true warriors and heros and then they get taken out like this!!!!!
I am sure that the anti gun nuts are going to turn this into something else though and the libs will see it as a chance to try and say anyone with PTSD should not be allowed to own a firearm!!!!
I figure now they will start pushing on the semi auto handgun now also!!!!
Garrie, I'm for the second amendment and gun rights, But I think some people with PTSD shouldn't have fire arms. I've heard first hand accounts of vietnam vets waking up in the middle of the night and shooting up their houses while their wives are scared to death. It's sad veterans have to go through PTSD but its also sad for anyone who has to go through any mental illness.
Firearms shouldn't be banned, only who can use them.
Its a pity that this happened, and a sad loss of life for no reason at all, and an embarrassment that people will post the idiotic moronic comments they have below, from conspiracy CIA cover-up assassinations and such to racist tones.
Living proof that the right of freedom of speech does not make one right, nor release one from the responsibility of what they say or do.
The whole subject matter and line of thought travels off right under here, and o the tragic deaths of two prior duty respected servicemen in an idiotic murder.
Now its time for all the retards to come out of the woodwork.
Garrie,
Why are you turning this sad event into a political diatribe?? It's a clear case of someone with mental problems getting his hands on a gun. That should not have happened. Period.
Another gun koook worrying about stufff that's not going to happpen. If yoyu guys would deal in the real world perhaps we could get some reasonable control of the U.S. gun problem - which, anyone with a shred of a grip on reality would have to recognize exists.I've even read a column by a real writer sugggesting that the President is going to sus[pend the Second AMenment by Executive order. What a strange scary world you gun koooks inhabit -phatsms stalking you at every turn.
More whining from the victim party. If only this tragedy could have been prevented. Maybe if someone else had had a weapon....
You aren't a huge fan of "cause and effect" are you??
Three more casualties of the Bush-Cheney war. All for what? oil and Isreal.
My prayers for the families involved.
It sucks when grade school children, innocent people, bystanders, politicians, teachers, wives, husbands, babies and all others are taken out like this. What also sucks is the numbers increase every year and people find it acceptable and compatible with gun rights.
It amazes me that the advocates of removing guns think this is caused by the guns. It is a Mental Illness that had not been dealt with because that is where money has been cut back now for DECADES. The gun was a tool but the INTENT was in the mind of the mentally ill person that needed help.
FWIW, I have never owned a gun but have no problem with responsible gun owners. Just like I have no problem with responsible car drivers (over drunk idiots).
Deal with the source of the problem and not the symptom for once.
George Pauljohn, did we have a dictator or was the war approved by democrats and republicans? If your going to blame someone blame the people responsible, both democrats and republicans voted for the war but you just want to put blame on one side, maybe your a partisan hack.
Barry...if only the victims had guns they could have saved their lives. That's what the NRA says all the time even though they are proven wrong all the time as well. They also said legal gun owners are not the problem but most of these shootings are either done by legal gun owners or with legally owned guns. Guns are designed to kill people. They are not designed to save lives. Guns are a nuisance to our society. I do not advocate banning all guns even though I won't be sad at all if thata happens but I do support banning military style assault weapons, high capacity magazines and conducting criminal and mental illness background checks in all gun purchases without any exceptions whatsoever. Gun owners and the NRA are not part of the solution but they are a huge part of the problem. Maybe we should divide this nation again between north and south and give the south to the gun owners and wait until they kill each other to reunite the nation.
Cayeres, do you think only people in the south own guns. I have no problem with background checks or mental illness checks. There are no military style assault weapons that you can buy, it's already against the law, high capacity magazines make no difference one way or the other, that is easy to get around and a ruse by the democrats to make an issue out of something that really does not matter.
It's not about GUNS, it's about RIGHTS.
Live by the sword (GUN) die by the sword (GUN).
Its a shame this happened.
Dick, according to the FBI the numbers are decreasing. I know this contridicts what the anti-gun lobby says but facts are facts.
Hard to say, I found no conclusive reports but I did find non-fatal gun assaults are up. So one interpretation is we are getting faster and better medical care to the gun victims which will keep the number of fatal gun injuries down.
If you want conclusive facts check the FBI web page gun violence is declining nation wide except in some urban areas oddly enough they have some of the most restrictive gun laws in place.
I'd also like to address the idiot above who blamed President Bush for this act ,get back on your meds your hallucinating again.
well, garrie, it would behoove you to remember that when you are pointing your finger at others, you have a handful of other fingers pointing back at you
I'm a liberal-leaning centrist. I own guns. I see this entire situation as the tragic loss of a good man. (2 good men, actually) However, as a gun owner I am intellectually honest enough to admit that some people are not good candidates for gun ownership. some of our brave servicemen and women come back damaged from horrific situations. IMO, we have a responsibility (a word I never see people like you use) to give them the best health care available, and the most support we can offer, but that doesn't necessarily mean immediate access to high-powered weapons.
you are so busy flailing about in defense of the right to bear arms, you are overlooking the words "well regulated" and right of others to "life liberty and the pursuit of happiness". your rights are no more important than theirs
stop trying to push your reactionary agenda onto people and stop making sweeping generalizations. 2 men died and all you can think about is protecting your arsenal. that's pretty flippin' selfish
@ John in texas
Kind of like CBS putting those Sandy Hook kids up there to sing. No agenda there at all
This War Hero was doing what our VA and healthcare systems don't- taking care of veterans with PTSD and other mental health issues resulting from service in war.
There are no words to be said to describe this terrible tragedy except Thank you to all for your service to our Country and for defending our freedoms.
Kudos to you, KiMo8104! Your two sentences say it all. Thank you.
KiMo8104,
You're right about the PTSD problem. However, I doubt any mental health official would have recommended a day at the range or anything dealing with weapons as appropriate therapy.
Does being a good shot with the desire to document the number of people you killl make you a hero? What's with that, anyway? DOes the guy have a presss agent? Heroism is actuallly a neutral quality - neither good nor bad. By way of example I offfer rhe fact that in WWII there were many Nazi soldiers who fought bravely and efficiently. Are they heroes, too?
Ronald, as you said, those Nazi soldiers fought bravely (for the wrong cause of course). I'm quite sure that they were heroes to their countrymen and families too.
Try to take the high road and avoid bashing a patriot that is no longer with us.
Ronald,I guess that depends on whose history books you are reading.It takes a special kind of person to set aside their own safety and put themselves in harms way for the sake of others.The percentage of people willing to make any kind of sacrifice was small to begin with.Now it is getting smaller every day.
Perhaps giving someone with PTSD a gun is a bad idea.
I wonder if the Marine was paid to do this?
RonaldHuseinReagan is a troll. But since this is a Leftist controlled discussion site don't expect his idiotic comments to be collapsed or deleted.
Wonderful how the administration focuses solely on gun control while we hear mention time and time again about mental health problems and the fact people aren't receiving the help they need- because they can't.
Maybe if they'd focus more on funding mental health programs and getting people the help they need there could be fewer of these issues. Meanwhile a photo op of our commander in chief emerges of him out skeet shooting! wtf!
I am so sorry that these 2 guys had to die like this. BUT My son came back from Afghanistan with that @!$%# and the very last thing he needed, was to get his hands on a gun. As soon as he got back he was under DR. Care for PTSD. And with out any problem, he got a permit to carry a hand gun. Then that wan't enough, He wanted a AR-15. I was able to talk him out of that. He lost a very good job, because he was carrying his gun on the job. He was a 2nd amendment nut case and thought he should have any and all types of guns he wants. Well after Newtown, I am happy to say, He now knows he has no need to own a AR 15 and thinks they should be band. He was always a scared little man. I think he thought joining the Army would make him brave. He did his duty, but he will never be the same. I think he is still a scared little man, with PTSD and a gun.
I think the last thing you do for someone with PTSD is to take them to a shooting range.
Actually, Profreedom, mental health care is part of the healthcare reform that Obama has been promoting, but as you know the GOP has fought it all the way. After all, it was the GOP who called military benefits "Entitlements" that were eligible for cuts, remember? Maybe if the pro-war GOP spent more effort pushing for the care of people whose lives they've squandered or endangered in needless wars, it wouldn't come down to this. As for the Obama promo shot, why does it matter? The gun nuts criticize him for trying to regulate guns, and now want to bitch about him shooting one. Which is it? You all hate him for doing something you don't like, but hate him more when he does something you do like. You can't have it both ways.
Michael you are so stupid that it is actually funny to read your post, do you think the democrats voted against the wars, most of them voted for the wars, do you blame them as well? The health care law will break the country, no more money means no treatment for anyone. How did you become so dumb? Do some research for yourself, don't listen to someone else, form your own opinion, do not have it formed for you. God help you.
"Barry Sotero" is a worthless peice of ignorant trailor trash, I hope you get arrested for touching those little boys already, you sick American hating freak.
Chuck- Sorry your son is jacked up like the rest of us. Along with whatever meds he is on and docs he is seeing talk to him it helps. But your wrong about saying a shooting range is a bad idea. More sevre mental cases shouldnt handle firearms but for others it helps us open up and feel a sense of normalcy. For most of us guns are calming. Its not like some teens playing Call of Duty, you slow your breathing and relax your body and the weapon becomes a part of you. This allows time to hear yourself kinda like meditation.
You live by the gun, you die by the gun... I ultimately did not qualify for a sniper but got pretty close, right after Vietnam. Chris Kyle's book is really excellent. He was a true professional. I'm glad I never had to serve during the war. War is hell. And unrighteous war is triple hell. The last righteous war US engaged in was the war with the Japs in WW2.
I hope you are finally resting in Peace, brother, and all your sins are washed away by the good deeds you have done for others...
Chuck, sorry for the problems that your son is facing. It seems to be reaching epidemic levels. However, no assault rifles were used in the Newtown shooting. The assault weapon was found in the trunk of the car. Only handguns were used in the shootings. Sad thing all the way around though. It is a wonder to me, that being under a Dr's care for PTSD that your son could obtain a carry permit. I think that's where mental health evaluations should be on record for background searches for permits. I wish you and your family the best.
The VA healthcare system is doing what it is suppose to be doing. Taking care of its Vets. It may be slow but it is doing what it can.
NJK85. Thank you for your commits. I don't know enough about this PTSD. All I have seen tells me its like Shell shock. That is what they called it in WWII. But from what I have seen is Load noises are the enemy. For those that were on the front lines like my boy was. He drove a striker and hit an road side bomb 2 times. One of his pals was killed setting right next to him. He is going to school now and after Newtown, He wrote a paper and has spoken out on the NRA. He now believes that no one out side of the Military Or Para military should have these AR 15's. Most of the top generals think the same thing. Most Police don't want these guns out there for Mental people to be able to get hold of. And less face it, Having these types of guns in our homes don't make us safer. What happens whens, less say you have to go to court for something, maybe a divorce and things don't go your way. These things happen every day. I own guns but nothing like that. And maybe the biggest reason we need more control on many kinds of guns. We just passed a bad milestone last week. More Troops killed themselves, then died in combat. What does that tell you. Its a sad day.
Chuck, I would like to play my AR-15 in the band.
Patriot1945 You sound like a scared little ban just like my son still is after everything he went trough. I have only carried my Gun out of my house other then to hunt, for my protection. I used to work at a GM plant and I was threatened by a co worker. Then nest few days I carried my shoot gun to work with me just in case, loaded and ready. I am 58.
Again, in the Newtown shootings, the assault rifle was found, unused in the shootings, in the trunk of the car. Bias media misleading the masses.
Barry Sotero, I just want you to know that 99.999% of the time the words, "you are so stupid that.." are muttered by someone trying to make a point, what usually follows is most surely incorrect and quite stupid. As expected this was the case with your comment. Reading your comment sucked worse than an Ashly Simpson halftime show or watching two and a half men with Ashton Kutcher. I feel dumber having read it.
PB thanks for your kind words. But I only know what I heard on Newtown. I like you seen them getting the AR 15 from the trunk of a car. But the Medical examiner said these kids were killed by an Ar 15. The police have said it was an AR 15. It is possible he had 2 of them. I don't know. But everything I have been able to find on this, said those kids were killed with an AR 15, and he used a 50 cal semi auto hand gun to kill himself with. And you are right My boy should not have been able to get a hand gun either. That is another reason we need to tighten up the back ground checks. I think my son might have gotten his gun at a gun show. NO checks there.
PB; On January 24th the Connecticut State Police reported that all 26 of Lanza’s victims were shot with the .223-caliber semi-automatic rifle. They made that statement to refute the disinformation that pro gun lobbies had been spreading. Google it.
Ronald H Reagan,
"Does being a good shot with the desire to document the number of people you killl make you a hero? What's with that, anyway? DOes the guy have a presss agent?"
What a load of BS. You do understand he he was in the military and this was his job? A superior gave him the missions and he obeyed his superior and completed his missions. You seem to think he simply decided to shoot innocent people and keep track of the body count because it was fun.
You're a d-bag.
He died "pursuing his passion". Oh come on, the guy killed over 150 people--he didn't work at Halmark, while creating endearing sympathy cards.
Rooster...the passion they are talking about was helping vets with PTSD adjust back to normal life.
Don I've watched on CNN where the assault rifle was found in the trunk of the car and only pistols found in the school with the dead shooter. This came out last week. Liberal media, incorrect facts from the State Police, this is all in the plan to start taking our rights away one by one. Pretty soon, you will not even have the freedom to come on newsvine and disagree with me. I hope you're not as gullible to believe the lies the gov't is telling you just so they can pick and choose what weapons we own. I have no need for an assault rifle, but I know people that collect them, never shoot them, are you for or against our rights being taken away?
Agree with former Repub: IT is a bad idea to put guns in the hands of mentally unstable people. Same error made by the woman in Connecticut whose son killed her then went to the elementary school and killed many children. There was a time when people like Kyle, a man who is an exceptional soldier and patriot, would teach a useful skill to those they want to help. Mechanics, electronics, machinist skills, automotive etc. One of the tragic side effects of dumping our manufacturing sector is we don't have people with trade skills, we don't have jobs for our young people. But worse is we have no knowledge of what this was like. So what do we have now, people who don't have proper medical care but somehow there's plenty of time and money to be constantly messing with guns. Guns have replaced trade skills and we are giving them to mentally unstable people to work with because we don't know how to teach trade skills - since we don't use those anymore. IT is a bad idea to give guns or access to guns to mentally unstable people. It is a tragedy to see good men and children being gunned down by mental patients because a do-gooder with no skills thinks giving them a gun will enrich their lives because it's something to do with his hands to keep him busy.
PB. I saw the same thing when police were taking an AR 15 out of the trunk of a car. The Question is who's car? All I know is there was so much bad info. at the start of this. But the ME said the children were killed with a 223 shot from a bushmaster. Now maybe he had two of them. I can't say for sure. But I will except the word of the ME. The State Police also backed up that it was an AE-15. This Kid's mother most likely had 2 of them, one for her and one for him. We know she took him to the range to teach him how to shoot the Ar 15's so maybe that is the second Ar 15 in the trunk. But all indications say it was an AR-15 that killed all those kids.
RoosterBoy.... You are a special kind of stupid aren't you.
Chuck- PTSD happens alot for all sorts of reasons. The military just has a hard time because we learn to coup while deployed then come home and break down. Since my first deployment in Iraq in 04 I cant be in large crowds with out getting nervous and jumpy. It took 2 yrs to get over my insomnia and being afraid to drive at night. I tried meds but I couldnt function right. Everytime I went home all anyone did was asked if I killed someone or got to see dead bodies. My marriage fell apart and the only people that stood next to men were my fellow Marines. Now I am an instructor on operational stress and suicide prevention.
I have a strong respect for firearms and life. I have several guns and it is very therapeutic when I go out shooting. But yes something has to be done about the slaying of innocents. Assualt rifles have been used in gang shoot out all over this country for years and as long as they dont kill innocents no one cares. AK's banned after the LA bank shoot out and now AR's after the recent shootings. I feel to purchase a weapon like this you should have to go through a much more detailed process. We have the right to bare arms, but some dont have the mental capacity to not be a danger to others.
T Diddy - you're quite right.
Well, "Five Deferrment Dick" Cheney can claim credit for three more dead Americans, and the destruction of three more American families. Terrible price we are paying for a needless, stupid war which accomplished nothing except to replace one murderous dictator with another. No doubt, a bunch of the trillion dollars wasted, in Iraq, so far, ended up in Cheney's off-shore account. That wasted treasure could have provided a lot of health care, education and Big Bird. May Zeus drop a heavy lightening bolt on his head!
This article is about soldiers ....not YOU RANTING about dick cheney...how pathetic your post is.
You're part of the problem Shosyn, Hatfield is ranting, but he's right. That war was the biggest waste counterproductive event in american history. A lot of wasted lives for the benefit of a small group of powerful people.
Brian, your view tends to be the one that people who can't see past the end of their nose have.
Actually, Shosyn, this article is about Navy SEALS
and a Marine, and not about Army soldiers, as both Seals and Marines resent
being grouped in with soldiers. But point taken.
A thought that occurred to me is that this is just a consequence of war. You can’t give civilians a tax break and a free ride from the draft and then expect the small professional military to do three and four tours of duty over in a foreign combat zone without collateral damage when they come back home. Even this famous SEAL mentioned that his wife was set to divorce him if he didn’t stop going over to the war zone.
In interviews, he also mentioned some PTSD of his own, which is why he was probably trying to help other veterans. And there is another well known SEAL who shot himself in the head recently, so even SEALS
suffer PTSD.
This is a consequence of veterans not being willing to give up their guns. Veterans do not need to give up their guns, but when me and others were in PTSD counseling at the Philadelphia Veterans Hospital, we used to counsel each other to GIVE UP THE GUNS, so they didn’t get used in an inappropriate manner.
These three were going to the range to enjoy their guns for the sake of shooting guns. Maybe they would have been better off hunting deer or turkey? Maybe they would have better off doing some meditation?
But this is not an anti-gun rant, and if you want more guns and ammo, you merely need to be able to afford them, because they certainly are available in huge quantities. Even the President enjoys skeet shooting.
I don’t remember my parent’s generation boasting about how many enemy they had killed after WW II. Maybe they did and maybe my memory is imperfect.
I was a draftee/enlistee in the Army during Woodstock Rock anti-war festival, and I was not looking forward to hurting someone. The only gun I have ever owned is the ones the military lent me. During my second tour of duty in Vietnam at Phu Bai Airport, our M-16s were locked up in a Conex container, to be handed out at ALERTS, lest we used them on the officers, NCOs and each other.
One major news outlet had a story about this famous SEAL who boasted about his kills in a book, and it had something to do with, “HE LIVED BY THE GUN, AND DIED BY THE GUN,” almost like a western hero we night
think of?
As one of the unfortunate guys who took the place of Dick Cheney and Bill Clinton and the many woman who wanted equal rights but not the right to be drafted against their will in to an unpopular war, I will say that ten years of war and multiple tours for some, while tax breaks and fun for the rest, will result in more such casualties.
THREE CASUALTIES, today, as I count them. It’s very, very sad. I feel like crying.
Roger, agree with some, disagree with other comments.
The notion that you can't send guys over for multiple deployments is debatable. The soldiers during WW2 weren't sent for 1 year. They were there for the duration.
Kyle didn't "boast" about his kills so much as the media and military made a bigger deal of it. In another article it was said Kyle fought with the publisher of his book. He didn't want the kill numbers in the book. He wanted more attention made of the number of lives it saved. The military has always made a big deal of their heros and their exploits on the battlefield. They know the people need heros during war time. Why do you think they have made a big deal over kills by fighter pilots since WW1? Called them "aces" after 5 kills?
Volunteer vs draft army? Volunteers want to be there, drafted people don't always want to be there and often make poor soldiers.
B Hatfield. Right on! And cheney and his kind are itching for another war. The only winners in a war are shareholders.
B Hatfield/Ky. Are you that stupid or just that much of a partisan, do you really think that Dick Cheney sent the United States to war. You do realize that both republicans and democrats approved the war. Most of you beloved dumbocrats were saying the same thing as the republicans. Most of them got up on the floors of the senate and house to espouse there beliefs that we should go to war. Do you hold the democrats responsible or just the republicans? Get a grip on reality, no one person in government makes the decision, it is made by the majority of the congress.
It seems that too many people forgot what war really is.Too many people thought it was going to be over in a month all clean and tidy.Instead we are reminded that the one who wins the war is the one with the most desire to win.When we finish pulling out the Taliban and the terrorists groups will still be there.Technically,they have won this round and there will probably be another someday.Maybe by then we will have remembered how to win.
Everytime "Barry Sotero" spews his hate and ignorance, he gives the Feds another tip on where he is hiding- you won't get away with what you did to those little boys you freak.
Barry Sotero. You just think the american people are stupid. We all know Dick Cheney was at the CIA manufacturing evidence. He put pressure on the CIA to come up with something that would make everyone vote for the Iraq war. And they destroyed anyone that said anything that differed from there narrative. They Outed an Active CIA Agent. That is Treason. We all know Little Bush wanted to go to war with Iraq from the day he stole the election. Not one of these Chicken hawks would go to Vietnam and fight for there country, they had no problem sending troops to Iraq. They always say look at who is making money from a war. Well the whole Bush Admin. Did you forget, Cheney ran Halliburton /Brown and Rout. And Who got all those no bid contracts, yes that's right, Halliburton. Cheney directly profited from these wars. I mean money right into his pocket. Also, you do know that Cheney and Bush can not leave the USA, for fear of being arrested for war Crimes, for the lies they told to get us into Iraq to start with. Cheney lives in Hiding right here in the STATES. His life wouldn't be worth Spit if his where about's was known. I would bet that there are many hit squads looking to like his worthless butt.
This smacks of another CIA assassination/cover up. But hey, that's just me. Why have I grown so cynical about our government?
KNEW THIS WAS COMING!!!!!!!!!!!! How about ranting about the government NOT taking care of our Veterans instead of some stupid coverup? There is not enough money nor medical personnel helping our Veterans. There is a backlog of Veterans trying to get medical help. So instead of talking about some stupid coverup talk to the political leaders about getting help for the Veterans of the United States of America.
I guess we will find out if this guy makes it to trial or not. I would say you are right if he does not make it to a public trial and is not drugged up and states publicly why he did it, otherwise it will be just another case of a mentally ill person with a gun that needed help more than he needed a gun.
Interesting BooCoo, that's the first thought that came to my mind. An assassination as I expect this administration will stop at absolutely nothing in stoping anything nor anyone that they perceive as a threat to them. They prove this each and everyday.
Just a thought but considering the dictatorial agenda (my way or the highway mentality) it would not be uncommon for many to think this way. Again, just a thought. The guy could have just snapped right then and there. I sure hope the truth comes out. The families deserve to know.
Yes, I understand what is documented in the news reports but we will never know. Just seems odd from what is being disseminated by the news media. But again, no one knows anything.
It boils down to this: Do you trust this administration? Do you really?
Retired SOF
It is possible that he snapped right then and there, and had flashbacks from being in combat and started firing, but as Moses said. If he makes to a trial, then we may believe it was not a paid hit.
Well it is obvious that CBS doesn't have a Gun Violence agenda. Now all we need is to have the Sandy Hook kids show up to sing during the NBA playoffs, and we'll have gone full circle
Maybe your'e so cynical because there have been 3 pro gun killings in the last 2 weeks. I don't believe in coincidences!!!!!!
Keith Ratliff, John Noveske and now Chris Kyle and his friend!!!!!!!! Do I think the gov't has something to do with it. I think obama will do anything to further his agenda!!!! By the way that picture of obama with the shotgun was photoshopped big time, just like his birth certificate. The people who were there when he tried shooting skeet said he got out of there so fast there was smoke coming out of his ass. Too bad the man can't be honest about anything. Typical politician, a liar!!!!!!
God bless chad littlefield and Chris Kyle!!! Thank you for your'e service, because of you there are alot of bad people who cannot do harm to americans or anyone else!!!!! These fools who criticize you don't realize we wouldn't have the freedoms we do without people like you. Now all we have to do is worry about the criminals in washington taking our freedoms away, the tyrants who want to take away our 2nd amendment rights so they can take away the rest of our rights like freedom of speech. Talk to people who have come here from places like veitnam, whose lives were invaded in the middle of the night by bad people. People who would break down thier door and take away thier parents for brainwashing and retraining!!!! This is what this country is going to become if we don't keep after our gov't!!!!! Who do you think all those millions of plastic coffins are for at these internment camps out in the middle of nowhere!!!!!
Tim. Your a poster child as to why we should let people like you have a gun of any kind. You are a few beers short of a 6 pack. You are part of the problem to start with. Running around saying the President wasn't born in America. Where were you when Bush stole the election in 2000. That is a fact. My brother sent me a e mail 6 months before the election that laid it out to the letter as to how that election was going to play out and it played out just as my e mail said it would. We Real American's had to live with 8 years of little Bush. We had to stand by and watch him get us into 2 wars and run the Country right off the cliff. Where were you then Tim? I guess you thought that was all just fine.
?
Damn shame. A true tragedy for returning vets trying to cope.
Two fine soldiers gone. A third troubled and needing help.
All had guns. All like killing people but one day two of them became the victims instead of the snippers.
Cayeres- Are you an idiot or just a jacka$$. "All like killing people" These men were defenders of this country. They did what they had to do to protect people like you from more @!$%# like 9/11. So in doing so minds are twisted and shatter and then things like this happen.
More guns will stop this madness? (NRA) More good guys with guns will stop the madness. I THINK NOT SO MUCH.
NJK...these men were killers for this country. He bragged a lot about killing people with his rifle. He was killed with a firearm. Guns are designed to kill people. They knew that. They used them to kill a lot of people. He lived by the gun. They died by the gun.
Cayeres,
When serving this country in the military, you are given orders and you obey orders. He was ordered to shoot our enemies.
Why do you belittle a person who was murdered when he returned home after defending your right to live free? He was deployed to war zones 4 times. That would, no doubt be 4 times more than you. If you ever served your country you wouldn't spew such garbage.
You take your freedom for granted as if none has had fight to preserve it for you.
Bob fu...I am not belittlering him for his service. I am criticizing him for bragging so much about killing people. His bragging made him a killer instead of a hero. He killed a lot of people using firearms. He was killed with a firearm. Maybe his bragging made him a target!~
He didn't "brag" about killing people, you idiot. In his book, Kyle was even hesitant to publish the number of people he killed. Instead, he wanted people to know how many people he saved by killing those terrorists.
You are belittling him because his job was to kill people. He was a sniper, if he didnt kill someone then what the hell was he being paid for? At least man up and admit what you really think and say.
Another "nut control" issue.
is there something these tragedies have in common? if we don't stop focusing on guns and start focusing on mental and emotional health issues, intervention before the violence and violence in the culture issues nothing is going to change.
So Tom...you want us to completely ignore the role of guns and concentrate in metal illness even though in most of these shootings there is no evidence of mental illness by the shooters. Most of those shooters are not mentally ill. They are just bad people with guns. Whenever a black teen kills three on the streets of Chicago nobody said he was mentally ill. They say he was a gang banger with an illegal gun. But when the shooter is not black then he was a mentally ill person with a legal gun. By the way...I am not black but what I am saying is true to the bone!~
Cayeres you are like so many pathetic liberals, always worry about the poor black kid, believe me the black gangbanger is not worried about you, walk down that street and see what happens to you. I'm sure there are a lot of gangbangers who are mentally ill, who said they are not. When you are breaking the law and you know it, that is a mental illness. I hope they kill each other until there are none left in Chicago. If gun laws worked then Washington and Chicago would be the safest places in the United States, they're not.
Why can't we focus on both? It's not an either or issue. Our returning vets need help, not guns, and if you don't see that, you are a major part of the problem!
I'm sooo tired of the BS NRA line "if gun laws worked...blah, blah, Chicago." Let's look at gun laws in this country for a minute. In the 30s we had a rash of bank robberies across the country by criminals armed with "machine guns" and we banned them in '34 with the NRA's approval. According to today's NRA logic, there should've been a HUGE uptick in crimes committed by these types of "machines guns" but history shows the OPPOSITE. THE LAW WORKED. So please, stop lying.
Barry...I worried more about gun owners going berserk than about black kids. There is a huge upstick in mass shootings using AR-15s. Most of the latest mass shootings have been done with that type of firearm. They are designed to kill a large number of people in very little time. They are not used for self defense or hunting. Gun owners and the NRA do not see the tole played by guns in any of these shootings. Guns are at the epicenter of all shooting deaths!~
I am 58 and I own guns for hunting and home protection. This noting of the NRA's of if everyone carried a gun, there would be less crime is nonsense. In my life I have only one time ever heard of someone pulling there gun to save someone else. That was in Houston TX, Some husband was trying to kill his wife during a divorce. He went to her work and she ran out of the building, for her car and he cough up to her. A guy in the parking lot seen what was happening and drew his gun and shoot the Husband killing him. As I recall, the wife sued the shooter for his trouble. That had to of been 30 years ago. Take the Church shootings or the Move shootings, and Newtown too. These shooters had body armor on, so most hand guns wouldn't stop them anyway. Does anyone remember the shoot out in LA years ago, we seen it play out on TV. These guys were in full body armor and were using AK 47's and there were the Cop's and FBI with 6 shooters. Now our Police have AR 15's. I just don't think they should be in the hands of everyone. We have to start to ask ourselves as a people, Is it time to but WE the people first over the profits of Gun makers? Same with other things that kill us. This country can sell things that we know kill us, as long as they can make a profit on it. Isn't that what our Government is to protect us from?????
Chuck thats the biggest load of crap Iv'e ever heard in my life!!! There have been all kinds of people who have used thier ccw guns to protect thier family and other people. What about that one last year that was even on tv where the old man from florida pulled his gun out and started shooting at intruders in a coffee house. There have been 1000s of self defense in homes also. You don't hear about most of these because of the anti gun media. I'm willing to bet you don't have a ccw license or even guns for that matter.
By the way chuck how many thousands of more jobs do we have to lose in this country by banning guns. Close to 2 hundred thousand with manufacturers, who make guns, make gun parts, make gun accessories, train people, gun ranges, bullet manufacruters. Reloaders, recycling etc!!! You people don't get it. You don't get it as you sit in a bar and get drunk and jump in your'e car and kill someone. Ban alcohol!!!!!!!
Tim...really? There have been all kinds of people who have used their ccw guns to protect thier family and other people? The Department of Justice say that "In most cases citizens defending themselves with firearms do so against unarmed criminals or those armed with weapons lesser than firearms. In most cases the role of the firearms in stopping the crimes could not be corroborated. Citizens with guns tend to brag or exaggerate about Defensive Gun Uses (DGUs) because DGUs are considered to be "heroic, laudable acts with guns'. More than 32,000 Americans are killed with guns each year. More than 200,000 are victims of non lethal gunshot wounds. We have a lot of mass shooters many in states with CCWs and the CCW holders are never there to save the day. Mostly because when the bullets start flying the coward under a table to save their own lives or they are the shooters!~
Tim you are wrong on all counts. I did have a CCW. But I never bought a hand gun. I owned a Business and because I did and because I had no record, I was given a permit automatically, by our Sheriff. But I just never felt the need for a hand gun. I however own 6 long guns, I used to hunt in my younger years. Now I don't feel the need to kill deer, I much rather watch them play in my yard. We rescued a new born fawn last year that got hung up in a fence. I would much rather spend my time doing things like that then shooting them just so I can say i killed something. My ego don't need that anymore. I have enough fire power to protect my home and family if needed. I am not a scared little man that needs an AR-15 to feel like a real man.
Tim one more thing. About the Job's. Do you not think we can create jobs making things that are not made to kill people. We can make Ref's and washer and dryers again. TV Snowmobiles again. But no the Walstreet people send those job's where they have slave labor like Communist China, Vietnam, where people make $.50 an hour. When we put buy American first, witch if under way according to last Xmas. Then we not need the jobs making assault Weapons. Look at the Remington 700. They know it fires when it shouldn't. How many people have to die because they wont fix the problem? How many more people and Children have to die. I am sorry, but loosing the jobs over saving people win's every time. The only people that win in a war are the stock holders of the war machine. Our kids die so they can make profits and then they wont even pay there fair share of taxes. BS.
Cayeres... Thanks for the attempt to wake up Tim and people who think like him to the realities of what's really going on in this country with guns... but I don't think anything would wake them up other than a member of their family getting killed by some moron with gun... and even then they'd probably try to turn their loved one into some kind of hero.
I wonder why there are NO asian - american or african - american , US Navy Seals !? Lack of ability , skills , talent , perseverance , tenacity and most important , COURAGE !
Your 100% incorrect.
WHAT??????????????????????
Where in the world did you ever get the information that there are no Asian american or especially African american seals? ! ?
A totally ignorance of fact, there is and have been pushes and efforts by the DOD to elect more candidates from minority groups ever since 201! The fact remains as easy as it is now that we have the resources of the internet and search engines, it would have taken you a whole 10 seconds to research the tags for this and actually UP your educational intelligence on the matter.
Seals units have been mainly white only because of the elite testing and qualifying the members must go through to apply and qualify for the SEAL team, and no effort has been discovered to keep minorities OUT. Just the opposite, the DOD as I said has made extreme efforts since 2010 and documented research into acquiring more minorities to diversify its racial intonations of its membership. So next time, rather than trying to seem the wise and intellectual thought provoking scholar? Take a few seconds to not seem so ignorant on the situation. One prior Duty serviceman to another.
I would like to see you stand face to face with a minority or African American Navy SEAL and voice your statement in real life!
You're a retired serviceman and it is living proof that prior duty does not make an all knowing professional and jerks work in the military as much as honor driven, respectable non-racist non arsehole duty driven servicemen who are 100x's better than some of the racist idiots out there.
BTW I'm Caucasian prior duty 64C30 transport operator heavy SFC 75-79 and I would have more respect for ONE African American or Asian American SEAL than I would for a hundred of such racist prior duty morons that missed the whole point of service!
Say Air Force Vet: As I thank you for your service I will also state that as a combat vet myself, I find it embarrassing and ignorant on your behalf to make such a statement unless your service consisted of being in a non-combat closet hiding role or a desk rider. Enough said.
AFSOC/USSOCOM/SOF
service is service, the whole point was to protect this great country and the best of what it represents. when you divide by race, income, sexual orientation etc you are doing just that dividing, that's what has been happening for the past 4-5 years and i am waiting for americans to wise up and say enough of the politics of manipulation and character assassination and distortion. take that crap back to chicago, we are americans and we live together, fight together and will after this very divisive president win again but only if we do it together.
Air Force Veteran (yeah right!) There ARE you PHUCKING RACIST DICK!!!
Wrong AirForceVeteran! Go to navyseals.com/nsw/james-suh/ Asian-American Navy Seal. As for black Navy Seal members there are over 20 still on active duty. Try www.topix.com/forum/afam/TUCTI3AJFQIESDI6T#comments.
Do your research, you'll find the answers!
thank gawd there are also no Racist @!$%#e-heads either like yourself.
Live by the sword, die by the sword...it applies to individuals and it applies to countries!
Do what? Live by the sword? Is that the only stinking unintelligent thought a moronic mental process can come across and could come up with.
Its a prime example of one vet suffering from mental disorder the military has been so slow to treat or take responsibility towards, who turns weapons on someone who had built a lifetime of service, then retiring from the military helps other vets with a good heart and good code of honor, who then in turn is senselessly murdered by the previous vet who suffers from no telling what! Such a senseless loss of life! A tragedy that he survived his many military ventures to be killed state side in a senseless murder. And then ignorance and moronic statements pop up from people who obviously abuse their freedom of speech with ignorant comments.
To survive those service duty chaotic scenarios and then be murdered at home? Its irony extreme.
Thank you Brave Warriors for your Good and Faithfull Service to your Country.
Rest now in the Halls of Valhalla!
So much for a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun.
Moron
golf...You are an idiot! He was shot in the back.
Ah, the standard Republican response, attempt at an insult.
No, the truth.
VLGil just an FYI for you - "Upshaw said autopsies were still pending and he could not say how many times the men were shot or where on their bodies they were hit."
Well gee Einstien...I read it here on MSN he was shot in the back. Why would MSN state that? They only print the truth........
VLGil - got a link?
Golfsleft is a troll don't engage. I'm certain that's not all he/she does with their left hand. Don't bother responding since I won't see it. ignore>golfsleft<endignore
Poor pathetic Sam, can't answer simple questions or accept facts so puts me on ignore.
@ golfsleft
Nice that you follow all the agenda pages. I mean CBS officially joined NBC in having no empathy or taste for the victims of Sandy Hook. Lets just put them up on stage for the Super Bowl. I'm sure noone caught that message
What an extremely sad story all around. My heart goes out to the families of all 3 men. Tragic !
What is also sad is the lib idiots on this post. Mental health problems can be helped, but you just cannot fix stupid. And you stupid libs keep saying stupid war....liberals voted for it, so stfu.
SO you can't be fixed, sad, so sad.
Democrats voted for it after being sold a pack of lies by the Dubya/Cheney "war for profit" machine.
Democrats were not lied too, they were told what the intelligence community told everyone, if the democrats were lied too then so were the republicans, they got the same information. Quit being a partisan hack and accept the facts. Both parties were responsible for getting us into the war, they both took the intelligence information for what it said, the information was wrong. Both parties got it wrong, no one did it with evil intentions like you suggest. The war was approved by Congress, both democrats and republicans. The war with Libya on the other hand was not approved by Congress, it was done by a moronic president who thinks he is above the law.
"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998
"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
--President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998
"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
--Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998
"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
--Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998
"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by:
-- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998
"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
-Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998
"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
-- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999
"There is no doubt that ... Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by:
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), and others, Dec 5, 2001
"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and th! e means of delivering them."
-- Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Sept. 19, 2002
"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
-- Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002
"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002
"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
-- Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002
"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force -- if necessary -- to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002
"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years ... We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002
"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do"
-- Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002
"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members ... It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
-- Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002
"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction."
-- Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL), Dec. 8, 2002
"Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation ... And now he is miscalculating America's response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real..."
-- Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003
And that is just a TASTE of the quotes. There are many more out there for those of you who actually give a damn about the truth. "
Why all the sudden has this become a political issue. And your mention of lib's in a derogatory tone is rather unintelligent, as you will find in simple google searches that the liberal side has pushed for far more help for the mental problems of returning vets than the repuke side ever will express.
eat your own words VLGil...and show some wisdom before spouting out such diatribe. You die hard repugs ain't got the common sense to hold an intelligent conversation that has facts and smarts gathered into one conversation that makes sense. Its why ya lost in 2012/2013
Gee, did ya check that out in a liberal search site? I didn't lose in 2012, America did.
Where are your reading comprehension skills? Up your ass? Must not be, with your head there already hopefully there would not be room. If you cannot see the insults you probably won't catch this one either.
Wow, and all along I thought you were an American.
Can you see the Eiffel Tower from your flat??
DjDrew- Liberals want to take from everyone and try to give it to someone else, it's called redistribution. Liberals never want to give there own money to help another person, they always want to give someone else's money to help another person. Liberals are the scourge of society and need to be wiped out to save this country.
And inflammatory remarks like that are what is wrong with you..omg, you are suggesting that liberals should be wiped out? really? You are a sad sick person...get help now!!!!
And your use of the term "Repugs" is intelligent? Another as$ clown and hypocrite.
I'm not political, but it's funny how these idiots keep bashing each other.
Barry...non-liberals want to give us bullets. They use bullets as divorce papers and as replies for termination letters from their jobs. They also use bullets to reduce classroom overcrowding. They leave their guns available for their kids to kill them. They are so kind!~ They give and give and give!~
PARTY DRONES are so boring . . .
"Barry Sotero
DjDrew- Liberals want to take from everyone and try to give it to someone else, it's called redistribution. Liberals never want to give there own money to help another person, they always want to give someone else's money to help another person. Liberals are the scourge of society and need to be wiped out to save this country."
I'm not either one, but when it comes to personal giving, Liberals give more money to charity than conservatives do. And yes, that actually makes sense. If you are willing to reason it out...which you won't....because you need to be right.
PTSD is a created crutch for weak minded people who tried to soldier and failed. This guy did it because he was jealous of the hero status of Kyle and Littlefield. This was his 15 seconds of fame.
Bobmike81-
If you truly feel that PTSD is "a created crutch for weak minded people who tried to soldier and failed," then when you encounter George Patton in the next world, perhaps he -- who should have known better from the start -- can enlighten you. In the meantime, I hope no one truly needs to depend on you.
BobMike, you are an as$ clown. Besides being an idiot, you have no idea what you are talking about. Hopefully, you will encounter a situation that scars you for life. Maybe then you will understand.
Now I know why one of the reasons America is going down the toilet. Liberals spread their anti war, anti hero crap. Sad part is, they are defending you too.
I bet you or your family members were the ones throwing rocks at the soldiers when they came back from Vietnam.
Who is anti hero? Who threw rocks at the soldiers when they came back from Vietnam?
I bet you make baseless generalizations and couldn't find the root of a complex problem with a map and 2 compasses.
William of Rites
Great Point, however, that translates to "couldn't find his a$$ with both hands wrapped around it"!
Tell me libs, is it because most military are Republicans or are you just that anti gun? If most of the military where libs would there be condolences for the families of these victims?
Why are you so anti liberal?
No, actually we are anti-gun because people with PTSD are killing their fellow soldiers with them.
There might actually be a story about it around here somewhere.
I think that VLGil is a Democrat plant who is posting in here to make conservatives look stupid. She is doing a good job at it.
I am conservative myself and I am finding VLGil annoying.
Vlgil. You know what us Lib's do. We are the ones that clean up the mess the Rep's get us into, "Iraq" We are the ones that take care of the VET"S coming home. Rep's think the Troops are expendable. Lib's don't start wars for there fat cat friends to make money off and let the poor and middle class young men go off to die. When is the last time you seen a rich mans son go off to war. I mean to fight? Not very often, and if so they never see action. If we had stayed focused on Afghanistan, and stayed the hell out of Iraq, out troops would have been home years ago. I had a son over there, Did you??? And who made all the money from the war, well the rich did. Halliburton got all those no bid contracts. Much of that money went right to Dick Cheney. I am sure there was plenty for Little Bush and Rummy also.
Vigil we are all sorry for the loss of life no matter. Do we care if these children In Newtown Parents were Dem or Rep? Hell not we don't, they are just as dead. I begged my son not to join the Army because I knew the war in Iraq was a BS war like Vietnam was. He ended up in Afghanistan, But when we went down to GA for his graduation, I made a seen. When the General was brainwashing them to go off and die well for there country, well I lost it and started yelling at the general for laying to the troops. And I got removed. Then had to set in with my boy and his commander and Sargent. To this day I will fight to protect my country. But these Wars for profits have to stop. I always think of the move Brave heart. All those commoners lining up to fight for the Nobles, then one said I am not going to die for these Bastards! Well when we fight a war for profit, we are just fighting to make rich people richer. We didn't do a dam thing in Iraq but kill a bunch of people there's and our's. We Spend so much money and got nothing back for it. We put our country at risk. We didn't pay for the wars, and now the bill is due, while the rich only pay 10% if that in taxes, they want to take the money from SS, Medicare and Medicaid. I say let the people that profited from the wars pay for the wars. Bush 1 knew better then to kill Sudam Husain. And by the way, Cheney said the war would be paid for with there oil. I see that happened.
I see the Gun Grabbers in DC coming up with a plan in the not too distant future to require a Psych Eval for anyone wishing to purchase a firearm of anytype. And of course few will pass because thats all part of the much larger plan which is to disarm America. This will be a relentless push forever to get the weapons from Americans and get the United Nations firmly extablished on America's shores.
I have two questions that I'm sure are very difficult to answer at this time. First, what qualified Kyle to work with individuals suffering from PTSD and second, why take someone you know is suffering from PTSD to a gun range that could trigger some unknown reaction, like what happened? Just because someone does 4 tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't make you an expert in mental health issues associated with PTSD.
I know hindsight is 20/20 but that's actually the very last place I would be at to try and help anyone with a mental disorder.
But let's face the truth William, most men with guns are not the brightest bulbs on the planet.
@ Coopster
So that picture of the President was real. Thanks for clearing that up
3 guys dead and you say repukes and libatards???
How about Damm it? or Sad story about vets that put their buts on the line and life ended this way??comeonnnnnnnnnnn.
Exactly, what better way to help someone through the trauma of war and killing than by going out with the same weapon that caused your distress.
Next up the GOP will help rape victims by re-enacting the assault , brilliant.
(And of course making them bear the pregnancy to full term)
William of Rights-How dumb you are, the weapon does not cause PTSD, it's the conditions of war and what you must do to survive. Another idiot blaming an inanimate object. How come liberals are so stupid?
Barry. And just what are the conditions of war? Bombs bursting in air? Grenades blowing someone's legs off? Soldiers stepping onto a minefield? Watching soldiers getting shot up with machine guns? What is the common thread here? Animate objects causing distress.
Coopster since I assume you have no military training, then you have no idea of what I am talking about. Leave the big boy stuff to the big boys. What did you think war was? Our military is voluntary, not required, these people chose this life, it was not forced upon them. Get off of your butt and join the military if you want to find out what it is about. Couch morons like yourself who can do nothing but talk about other great people make me sick.
Barry said "William of Rights-How dumb you are, the weapon does not cause PTSD, it's the conditions of war and what you must do to survive"!~ And those conditions are the dead fellow soldiers killed with GUNS, the firing of GUNS on you all day or is it they do not have cable overthere?
Deleted by user
I find this very odd. Lately it has been one murder after another with semi-automatic weapons. I really am not believing that a vet would take someone with PTSD to a gun range to "help them". This guy will get off for being mentally unbalanced. I ask myself who is behind all these things and it sure isn't GOD.
William of Rights- I guess you think because a woman was raped,"which is horrible", it is okay to kill an unborn child. How did you become so dumb. Compound one bad act with another one to make you feel better.
Hey DS Barry, it's the woman's call and her body. You have no say over it. If it is a sin for her to get rid of the kid, it's her sin, not yours. Go away and pray.
Let's Destroy More- So your saying you condone murder, how sick are you? Pathetic that this is what society has become. You have no moral compass if you think murder is okay. You are one sick person, I hope you get help.
Barry...what woman wants to have the child of a rapist? You are pro-life but you are fanatic about protecting weapons designed to kill people? How about the 32,000 Americans killed with guns each year? Why do you promote the weapons used to kill so many but oppose a raped woman right to have an abortion? You are more confused than a penguin in a dessert.
Sadly this kind of stuff happens all of the time, Its just that the press hasn't cared much about it until all of this 'controversy' around firearms. Lately the press has been covering every non gang death they can get their hands on. Unfortunately it is very one sided coverage (anti-gun), statistics say that there have been ~60 lawful cases of self defense with a private firearm in the past two months. Why have we only heard of one? Its hard to justify this as "balanced coverage". This article exemplifies the situation, it talks about every aspect of the victims life, except for the fact that he is one of the very people that most of the proposed legislation would adversely effect and he would likely have opposed.
Ano00c2 said "there have been ~60 lawful cases of self defense with a private firearm in the past two months"!~ WOW!~ 60! Do you know that most defensive gun uses are against unarmed criminals where the life of the gun owner was never in danger? Do you know most of those 60 are based on thye accounts of the gun owners? There are more than 32,000 gun related deaths per year in the US. That's an average of around 5,333 Americans killed with guns every two months. Compare the 5,333 KILLED with guns every two months with the 60 ipods saved with guns and you should conclude that guns are more a nuisance than a benefit by far!~
"There are more than 32,000 gun related deaths"
Less than a third of which were homicides, that should give you some idea of how rare murders with firearms are. The number of suicides is almost DOUBLE the number of homicides (~11,500 Compared to ~19,200). The rest of the "gun deaths" you mention are a mix of justified uses of force & accidents. Compared to another cause of death, say Medical Malpractice, which results in over 190,000 deaths per year, our "gun violence problem" is massively overstated. Unfortunately there is no reliable statistics on the "reason" for firearm homicides, a vast majority of which are probably gang related. Something which the current raft of gun legislation is extremely unlikely to have any meaningful impact on.
Last. You might not want to go there. The Rep's start wars in the name of God all the time. They stand up shaking there fist saying they are Christians Or Jews and God is on there side. The Muslims say Ala is on there side. Its all on the God that one honors i guess. I am at the point that I have to ask, where was God on 911. Where was he when 20 children were killed in Newtown? Where is he every day In Chicago when kids are killed every day for no reason????? We just really shouldn't go there.
"chuck-2111043
Last. You might not want to go there. The Rep's start wars in the name of God all the time. They stand up shaking there fist saying they are Christians Or Jews and God is on there side. The Muslims say Ala is on there side. Its all on the God that one honors i guess. I am at the point that I have to ask, where was God on 911. Where was he when 20 children were killed in Newtown? Where is he every day In Chicago when kids are killed every day for no reason????? We just really shouldn't go there."
Why ask why when every day miraculous things happen to everyday people, and yet when they rejoice and thank God for something GOOD, you STILL mock them just the same???? It makes no sense and you are not likely to admit that or even think about the truth of that, I know.
these blog entries represent in part what a campaign of division, character assassination, and distortion will result in- the candidate wins the country loses. wise up send the politics of our ideas are right, their ideas are wrong, they are wrong, they are at war with women, what a load, back where they came from- dust bin of our sometimes not so proud history. republicans are at war with women like those that are for choice are at war with babies. what happened to addressing the economy, deficit, debt, solvency of entitlements etc etc and what happened to appealing to the best in us and to what unites us? obama's legacy will be as the divider in chief.
Exactly, forcing a woman to carry her pregnancy to term after being raped and assaulted in the most vile and demeaning way possible is actually compassion.
Brilliant.
i wonder if the man who shot kyle and littlefield had combat related stress disorders and refused treatment,just a guess but who really knows at this point yet?i have a s-i-law infantry marine who was in iraq twice than afghanistan once and he came back pretty f-ed up the last time with ptsd. he was treated temporarily with meds after the de-combatting therapy they give troops comming home. the meds and counseling helped him out alot.i hope msn doesn't make this into another anti-legal firearm rant for the wacko far left liberal radicals to drool over. the men were killed and more needs to be known before one can make a true decision as to why this happened.
They do it every day. The lies about Newtown and the assault rifle. Truth finally came out that it was in the trunk of the car and handguns were used. Someone assumed that it was assault rifle attacks and tried to get everyone on the bandwagon to ban the sale of them.