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Subscribe to RSSChris Kyle, a sniper in Iraq, was so feared that he was dubbed "The Devil of Ramadi" and had an $80,000 bounty on his head. Tragically, it wasn't enemy fire that killed him, but a fellow soldier asking for help with PTSD. NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reports.
Firing bullets at a gun range — as a Marine reservist was doing Saturday when he allegedly killed ex-Navy SEAL and "American Sniper" author Chris Kyle — can ignite combat flashbacks, a leading expert on post-traumatic stress disorder said Monday, adding, however, that hunting and target practice can be therapeutic for veterans if their shooting buddies intimately know war.
“The question being asked is: Wouldn’t the shooting of a weapon out in the open trigger feelings, nightmares, flashbacks? The answer is, yes, it can,” said Dr. Harry Croft, a San Antonio-based psychiatrist who has talked with more than 7,000 veterans diagnosed with PTSD. “But the hope would be that those would be triggered in a situation that’s safe, where other people are there who understand PTSD and could help the person cope with the thoughts that may come back to them.
“In situations like a shooting range, the sounds may set off a hyper-vigilant response, maybe flashbacks and nightmares at night. But it doesn’t make you violent, like you’re going to kill the person around you. And if the person around you is a Chris Kyle, a Navy SEAL who knows and can support you, then that experience can have a more positive effect,” Croft said.
Eddie Ray Routh, 25, a Marine Corps corporal from 2006 to 2010 who deployed to Iraq in 2007 and Haiti in 2010, was arraigned Sunday on two counts of capital murder in the deaths of Kyle, 38, and Chad Littlefield, 35, at a shooting range in North Texas. Both men were killed with a semi-automatic handgun.
According to Erath County Sheriff Tommy Bryant, Routh "may have been suffering from some type of mental illness from being in the military himself." Bryant added that Routh's mother possibly contacted Kyle to try to help her son. The sheriff also learned, he said, that the three men might have been at the range “for some type of therapy that Mr. Kyle assists people with.”
Organized veteran hunting excursions and shooting clubs — meant to be part bonding experience, part brief return to comfortable turf and tools — have proliferated across the country in recent years, particularly as American troops departed Iraq and as they continue to pull out of Afghanistan. Croft estimated that about 20 percent of Iraq and Afghanistan veterans have a form of PTSD, ranging from mild to severe.
“I talk all the time about the importance of good support systems for those suffering from PTSD, and articulate, bright, fellow military members like Kyle might have an ability to help a young troop with PTSD more than most (others) might,” said Croft, who co-authored “I Always Sit with My Back to the Wall: Managing Traumatic Stress and Combat PTSD.”
“That’s why it would be very rare if, all of a sudden, (the suspect) got triggered feelings and then would turn the gun and shoot this guy in the back. Something happened that we don’t know or understand, I believe,” said Croft, who has never worked with Routh. “This behavior is totally atypical for people with just PTSD. There can be rage, anger, aggression, agitation, even violence, yes. But it’s generally directed toward family members or one’s self, in terms of this suicide epidemic. Rarely is it outside of that circle.”
The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs has occasionally partnered with the Tampa, Fla.-based Black Dagger Military Hunt Club to hold shooting programs for veterans. In July, the club is sponsoring the trap shooting competition for the 2013 National Veterans Wheelchair Games in Tampa, providing ammunition and clays. Black Dagger, made up of ex-military members, also holds four to six shooting events per year. Every participant is briefed beforehand by “range safety officers" and supplied weapons. The veterans then work one-on-one with expert shooters, said founder Dave Winters, a 20-year Air Force member who retired as a senior master sergeant.
“We tell them: If at any time you feel uncomfortable about what’s going on out here, if the noise is too loud, put your weapon down, talk to your range safety buddy and just indicate that you need to walk away,” Winters said.
“We’ve had several who were real uneasy about approaching it at first, but once they saw that it was a comfortable thing, (and of course that) no one is shooting at them, that’s what I think helps them. It kind of normalizes them,” Winters said. (One Afghanistan veteran in the club), who feels like no one can relate to him, said that when he’s back out at the range, shooting and talking, it's just like when he was in his unit. It just makes them feel a lot better.”
In central Florida, the Sportsmen’s Foundation for Military Families escorts combat veterans — and their spouses, children, parents or siblings — onto leased land for weekend hunting trips.
“We never cater to just the veteran. Two veterans — or a group of veterans — who are out in the woods together, that does not improve coping skills, generally speaking. What improves their coping skills is their family,” said Barry Hull, a retired Navy commander and F/A-18 Hornet pilot who flew on the first night strike of Desert Storm. He has helped the Sportsmen's Foundation on the business side and attended several hunts.
The group is based on the concept that hunting trips “give the veteran and family a sense that they can once again be like they were, that those good days can be had again, particularly with those who have physical injuries and limitations,” Hull said.
“What improves a veteran’s coping skills is their family. And I know a lot of people want to say, 'Well, they're my military family.' They’re really not your family. Your family is really what I would call the classical definition of family — that's it for the long haul,” Hull said. “If you can develop those coping skills, communication picks up at home. We know that just simply being able to identify your demons lowers the effect (of PTSD). And that's what we do when we get the family out there on these adventures.
“The worst thing you can do is get a bunch of veterans out there in the woods, whooping and hollering and telling war stories, maybe drinking some beer, and not including the family. What does it do? It drives a bigger wedge between the veteran and the family. It's another distance maker,” Hull added. “What does that do? It adds more stress.”
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boy,it sure did not take long for the libtards to go after vets did it?myself and a good friend went to range yesterday had a blast let her shoot my ar 15,mp5 and 40cal pistol .she loved the ar.busted the bull out with the40.had an awsome time.IMO,aint nothing as sexy as a girl with an ar!!!too bad you don't hear about things like that. but don't worry i am a vet (with 2c.a.r.s)i am sure they will find a way to take my hobby and passion away because i am a vet.
Yeehaw, we are so happy for you and your girl.
I took my family skiing, no one died.
no one died doing what we did either, that was the point jacktard!i am a vet ,a combat vet(do you know what a c.a.r. is?) for that matter you go skiing to recreate i like to shoot.now they want to say we shouldn't .it was only a matter of time before they got to this especially after napolitano put us on the terrorist watch list.guess my point is we see 100s of people at the range every weekend vets ,nonvets,men ,women, children,having good times.and to judge the whole community on one incident and vets to boot is just beyond stupid!
You are talking to a lib and there is no bounds to their stupid.
str8jkt82, and then you all came back to the trailer park and had some beer. Nice, real nice.
Also, I hear you sleep with the ar-15 too. Just like the crazed nut cased that had kinapped that 5 year old boy, you survivalist, nra brainwashed dip chits are sickening.
Two points here..
Mr. Routh the Marine is claiming self-defense.
Wayne LaPieere is a DRAFT DODGER!!
truth you are nothing but a hopeless libtard who voted for der fuhrer.and trying to talk to people like you is explaining the theory of relativity to my dog.the only point here is chris kyle was a hero who saved countless lives on the battlefield and then tried to help troubled vets at home. more than you will ever do.what bothers me is how you libtards will use this to one,try and deny vets of their rights two,to further your antigun hysteria.oh,by the way don't live in trailer ,we went out for lunch and i sleep with a beautiful girl and an smith and wesson 9mm by my bed and you?
Isn't anyone concerned why this ex-marine killed a couple of guys who were trying to help him?
yeah it bothers me i was an active duty marine for eight yrs.and to hear of kyles death, who was areal american hero,to be done by a fellow marine is very troubling .it is beyond words.
if no one had guns they still be alive duuuuuuuuuuh ban all guns no one needs them learn to spit in the face of your attacker and give him a ball shot no gun needed.
Ban all guns like they did in Mexico. No one will be dead from a gunshot.
Oh yeah I see a lot of good with bringing PTSD vets and guns together................ what could go wrong.
Can people stop with the stupid comments about how "our best trained warrior and his friend were both murdered cause guns don't protect people" or "oh look people killed at a shooting range where were the good guys with guns" and crap like that. Chris and his buddy were probably looking down their sights or something when this lowlife crept up behind them and shot them in the back for his claim to infamy. He then stopped killing people and got the hell out of there asap. This was a tragedy and very sad. Nothing more. Stop trying to make this political.
Shooting is good fun, just ask Dick Cheney's buddies!!!!
maybe you should try it sometime because you are just another clueless libtard.
Ooooh, accelerating a piece of lead down an iron tube makes you such a real man.
I can't wait, until then I'll just continue my weakling workouts benching almost twice my body weight.
this just goes to show how ignorant you are of the sport.you need to do things like control your breathing,know how to get good sight alignment and sight picture ,how to adjust for windage,point of aim point of impact.it is just not puling a trigger.please don't try and impress anyone with how much you bench press.i wrestled for 12yrs 2 in the USMC.so i know my way around the ironpile better than you know.but this about a real hero that saved countless american lives in battle and then tried to help them after they returned.and died needlessly.now thier are little a$$bags rolling around on these sites commenting he deserved it?its ya'll who don't deserve people like him who were and are willing to give themselves so you can go skiing or what the phuck.to turn around and degrade him or his selflessness?
Another soup of @!$%# from MSN. *claps*
ww2 we fought an eneimy that was just as strong as we were, ptsd on them would not have been as bad but was still in there minds of the buddys they lost , now we fight some that dont have the best weapons and trying to figure out who is the bad guys over there is real, i would think for our yunger kids that are comeing back with that in mind, and thinking did they kill the bad people or was just in the wrong place , will just think of it this way , i dont want no one to take this the wrong way but war, people will die even kids in a battle zone, and yea its bad but , think of it this way the eneimy is useing them people to hide behind as they shooting at you, what you going to do but shoot back and use the best weapons to kill them, and the after mass is not a pretty picture , because we lived and they died, battle won , if it was the other way just think they would be standing there and not you , will god bless rip m8's gtg
As the man ask "Was you there, if no, shut the f..k up!
Hey guys, I don't really believe that this particular incident has much at all to do with gun control or the lack thereof. Both sides are twisting the facts in order to defend their own agendas. I'm a Democrat, but this was simply a terrible tragedy. The people involved were all vets, all trained on their weapons, and it should have been a safe situation. I have no idea what set this guy off, and none of you do, either. So stop with the politics. Kyle was trying to help a fellow vet. Things went horribly wrong. But this wasn't about the guns. It was about one sad vet who couldn't deal with reentry. Maybe he blamed Kyle. Maybe he had a flashback. Maybe he felt his mom had placed him in an untenable situation. I don't know. Neither do you.
Kyle served honorably. He should be remembered with respect.
Billy of Wrongs
A lot of people die skiing. How dare you endanger you family in such a manner. Do you want them to end up like Sonny Bono?
I see the terrifically difficult word "intent" is beyond you.
Really, Vets cant have guns, civilians, cops, soon the military? Just gangs and law breakers...Obama what are you up to?
In the words of our short departed squatting cow (hillary) "What difference does it make now?"...
Here's the full quote without all of your bullsh!t cut and pasting: Grow up child...
"With all due respect, the fact is, we had four dead Americans! Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided they'd go kill some Americans? What difference at this point does it make? It is our job to figure out what happened and do everything we can to prevent it from ever happening again."
LOL...
If crazy and non-crazy gun nuts want a place to meet and kill each other, why stop them.
Coyote
I wonder if that is how Hillary feels about the kids who were killed at Sandy Hook, rest their souls.
"WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE NOW"!!!!!!!!!!!!! Said Hillary. That's her answer for everything.
Where are all those calling for mental health screenings for all gun owners reporting that this shooter was taken to the hospital by the cops for a mental health evaluation because of a altercation with his girlfriend before this indecent happened?
And more soldiers commit suicide than die in combat now...
Few want to talk about the real problems we have...
Spine Bob- You know what? I am a veteran and I have no tendency toward violence. Tell you what... why dont you shut up, put on a uniform and go serve. Then come back and complain. You know squat about this stuff so it sounds. It is all good for us to serve to uphold your lifestyle, right? Stop consuming so damn much and then we wont have to fight a war for you and those that want to complain. Jump in a lake. I didnt ask to go to Iraq I was sent by you and the rest of America. Remember that...I never, ever complained one bit. Proud to have served.
cityofangel- COWARD!!!!!!! Dont worry I kept you safe.
When I got out. I couldn't stand loud noises, crowds, kids or fireworks. Occasionally, I slept on the floor. On my first date, I took this chick to the dance hall. The dark, strobe lights, heavy concussion of the speakers, Nearly flipped me out..I tried hard to fit in to society. I had no idea of how f__ed up I really was. It took some painful experiences to just begin to see where I really was. I was blessed in that circumstances allowed me to progress in life.
Sorry to hear that Robert, your symptoms are all too common. Even multiple talking of people tends to set it off.
Military: When someone talks, you listen.
Civilian: Everyone talks over everyone else
I'm glad you progressed, encourage your buddies who haven't to seek help from the VA (and keep on them to service you) or other source. You've lived a life no one can understand but a fellow vet.
PTSD should be treated by professionals who know how to treat it properly. Basically what Kyle was doing was desensitization therapy. To the best of my knowledge he was not a psychologist or psychiatrist, nor did he receive training on any ways to treat PTSD or administer desensitization (or any other kind of) therapy. If this were anyone else, people would have called him an idiot and yawned and walked away. Just because he was a war hero does not mean that he was doing the right thing, and unfortunately he paid for it with his life. Proof yet again, that just because you CAN own a gun doesn't mean that you SHOULD own a gun. Two men are dead and a third will likely spend the rest of his life behind bars. Does everyone really thing that guns are still the answer?
This is one article I really don't want to even comment on. It stabs me in the heart.
But if I see some trying to use it as a reason for their gun-control agenda as the did with the tragedy in my state I will respond.
Ask that to those that sent our people to war for no good reason in Iraq!
I'm right there with you Pat. We are probably on opposite sides of the fence, but fact remains I think that the muckimucks who start all these wars should be sending their own kids overseas to fight them.
If you haven't been shot at in combat - Shut up. You don't know what you're talking about
So basically what you are saying is that if I haven't gone to war, then I have no way of knowing that taking someone with a mental illness to a shooting range and giving them a gun is a bad idea???? It doesn't take military experience to smell the disaster in that. And again, I will say it, this man was not a shrink. He wasn't even a counselor. HE was not the best person to help this guy address his PTSD. That's pretty freaking obvious given the smoking gun and 2 dead bodies.
How do you know what his qualifications are? Have you bothered to do any real research or are you just going by this article? The media has an agenda so anything that does not support it is always omitted! He could be a licienced councelor but that would not fit their mould now would it? He could also have received certification or be accredited by a local college without a full degree. What makes YOU the definitive answer that he was not the BEST person to help anyone address PTSD? How much do YOU actually know about this illness? I bet all you know about it, like all of these other uneducated individals, is what they hear and see on BIASED media sources! Go back to your sleepy little world until someone calls for you.
Are killing babies a good idea? How about handing out drugs to children with any hint of Male Aggression? Is trillions and trillions of debt a good idea? Is giving bankers trillions to buy stock a good idea? Is making idiot liberals pay back this debt by Tax Labor and Consumption a good idea? Is giving up arms to a government a good idea? Was it a good Idea in Germany? Russia? China? You freaks have lost your mind !
The ignorance of so many of these posts is utterly astounding, particularly on the part of the gun haters. What you all seem to miss is that 2 men, one with extensive training, were still killed. To quote your great Secretary of State "what difference does it make" how? Now I'm sure we're going to read the brilliant "I thought the only way to stop a BG with a gun is with a GG with a gun" comment. When evil raises its ugly head nobody can be guaranteed to be safe. This is why the pathetic calls for gun control, gun violence control, gun banning, is just plain idiocy. All need to remain vigilant, and if you want to do all within your power to try and protect yourself and your loved ones. then you should be afforded every possible measure to do so. If you want to be less than self sufficient and depend on others to CYA, good for you. Just don't expect the rest of us to live as you do.
My condolences to the families of the two murdered men. Fair winds and following seas CPO Kyle. RIP gentleman.