Maybe a freudian slip?... LOL!!

A loose term. perhaps you don't understand.... It means being presured into someting . Gays are pusing hard to see this change. Problem now is the staight majority is waking up to this BS and has begun to fight back.

As a former boy scout, I do not feel that the ban should be lifted. The scouts are, in my opinion, formed to teach christian ideals and concepts. If you want to join the group then you must follow the esisting rules of the group. If you do not like the rules then do not join. If the ban is lifted I will have a hard time supporting the scout movement.

I truly believe they should check the validity of the signatures of that petition. They are sneaky that LGBT group, for they have proven to stoop to no low, just to push their agendas on to everyone that doesn't agree with their lifestyle choices.

They so badly want to be accepted by a society that is witness to their outright weirdness, both mentally and physical appearance. Most people find them to be odd and sycophants, that is why they accept them for they feel sorry for them and their oddity. Furthermore, if you were to take a poll, the majority of the LGBT do not live in accordance or support the Boy Scout motto. They seek the approval of others, because they lack the peace with in themselves to feel comfortable in their own skin, hence the propensity to be a sycophant. So they can feel false acceptance, which completely contradictory of the Boy Scout motto and purpose.

The scouts were founded in England in the 19th century, as an ostensibly Protestant organization. For a time, Roman Catholics were banned or discouraged from being scout leaders, because the Anglican majority didn't like Roman Catholics. In America, there were issues at one time over having racially mixed scouting groups, or Jews as members. All KINDS of "wrong people" have been given flak by the scouts.

You sir, do not have a monopoly on the understanding of Christian "ideals". Lutherans, Episcopalians, Quakers, and others, WELCOME gays and lesbians AS gays and lesbians into their parishes or places of worship. There is no ONE "Christian" way of regarding human sexuality. Many Christians regard same sex attraction as being UNCOMMON, not "abnormal". God gave is brains as well as faith. Brains tell us that human sexuality is diverse, and that the earth doesn't orbit the sun. At one time, the church PUNISHED people for not believing the latter.

Martin Luther once said that reason and intellect were enemies of faith, which must be utterly crushed and destroyed. Many Christians don't accept this. Those who do, place the "letter" of Scripture above reason and intellect, which also come from God, and they also PICK AND CHOOSE which parts of the Bible to follow. Jesus never said one word about homosexuality. He DID on the other hand, contradict some Old Testament teachings that "Word of God" obsessives fixate upon, and he preached love and tolerance.

"Hasty"? Arw they kidding. This has been debated to death. Get with the 21st Century. No More Debate! And no more bigotry

Homosexuality is not a race issue sir, it is a sexual preference. And that sexual preference is contrary to Gods plan of joining together and bringing forth progeny. Genesis,"And God created Man and Woman", it was not a suggestion.

Ed, your bigotry of a private organization that does not accept your lifestyle, is the true definition of hypocrasy, and nobody is entertained by your hypocrasy.

If they separate boys from girls on overnight events due to sexual attraction issues and to avoid scandel, what about homosexual boys sleeping in the same room with other boys? What's next, letting the girls sleep in the same room with the boys and pretend nothing will happen? I'm sure there are some 21st Century hip adults who wouldn't mind that. Anything but parent!

All the BSA is doing is 'passing the buck' on making decisions concerning gays down to the local chapters because they don't have the balls to make the decision on their own.

Funny how many people fall back on "Christian principles" to rationalize throwing boys out of Scouts when they discover they are gay. So many people say "don't join". These boys joined at age 6 or 7 - and then are told they are no longer welcome at 16 or 17 when they accept who they are. They're told to "go off and form the gay scouts" as if their years of service, of leadership, working on rank, earning badges, making friends, finding mentors, no longer matters. Why do gay teens commit suicide at a greater rate than straight teens? Because their support systems reject them. Jesus reached out to the disenfrachised - he didn't shun them. He showed love and compassion, not hate and rejection.

Never forget, this is about the Benjamins. The BSA is worried they are going to loss sponsorship money if they don't join the 21st Century.

Homosexuality is not a race issue sir, it is a sexual preference.

Sexual orientation, like race, is an inborn trait. It is not something that it chosen, unless you can tell us when you chose yours.

God does not make our laws, Rob; the US is and has always been a secular nation. Keep your religion out of my government. It's also very strange that the BSA and Muslim chapters of the Boy Scouts around the world are the only ones who bar homosexuals and atheists; it apparently was not Lord Baden Powell's intent to bar ANY boy from participating in positive activities.

BTW, you should also know that approximately 90% of pedophiles/child molesters are heterosexual, married men (probably a lot like you); they are attracted to the age, not the gender, and will prey on whatever gender is more readily available to them.

ErinNJ,

Sexual orientation, like race, is an inborn trait. It is not something that it chosen, unless you can tell us when you chose yours.

That's debatable. Saying it's so doesn't make it so. I'll play along though. Equating sexual orientation with race is a non-starter. You can choose not to have sex with someone of the same sex. You can't choose to not be black if you're black. After reading a lot of these posts I can see why the African American community is up in arms about the radical homosexual movement equating their fight to infiltrate and change traditional American institutions with the fight for equality during the Civil Rights Movement.

Correct me if I am wrong here.. BUT the Boy Scouts are a private group funded by donations....

They can pretty much do whatever they want concerning gays.. IF I owned a business, and I was a racist idiot, I could technically say no "X" allowed. I only serve people of "Y and Z" race..

I dont care if you are gay, lesbian, black, white, or purple with pink poka-dots, but if a private group ( not funded by tax dollars ) wants to exclude someone because they are gay, they are within their rights to do so.

What I don't understand, and have never understood, is why as a gay person you would want to be around people who do not like you. That would be like a dumbass KKK member going into a NAACP convention in full white sheet outfit. Stupidity..

In my opinion this is no different then the New Jersey mom suing the school district over a Father Daughter dance. Pure Stupidity.

And like all "good" bigots, you confuse behavior with orientation. One is controllable, while the other is not. Can you figure out which is which?

After reading a lot of these posts I can see why the African American community is up in arms about the radical homosexual movement equating their fight to infiltrate and change traditional American institutions with the fight for equality during the Civil Rights Movement.

That's funny, because the NAACP has called the marriage equality issue "the civil rights issue of our time". Furthermore, the underlying arguments against discrimination based on race or sexual orientation are exactly the same.

I would tell you to get a clue, but even that seems impossible at this point.

The NAACP is a radical left wing institution as well and doesn't represent a majority of people of color. Doesn't surprise me. Birds of a feather and all...

Svenolafson -

There is no identifiable method of controlling a person's sexual orientation, or of changing that orientation once it's set. No, the faith healers don't work, as the men come out still attracted to men, they just put up a better front in the church and get a beard.

Jeremy -

Actually, if you own a business that does business with the public, you have to serve ALL the public. You can restrict certain behaviors from your store, like disruptive customers, breaking stuff, etc. However, you cannot say "I will not serve X race, I only serve Y race," or "I don't serve atheists" or anything. That is blatant discrimination and is banned under the Civil Rights Act. If you serve the public, you have to serve the public, not just a subset of the public.

Associations, however, are different. If they are government funded or supported in some way, then they have to have open membership. So, if somebody wanted to found a group that preaches against homosexuality, if they take government money they have to allow homosexuals to join. Not only that, but a pro-homosexual group would be required to allow bigots in. If the association is privately funded, though, then they can discriminate. This has been upheld in the lawsuits that the Scouts have fought and won against people trying to force the Scouts to accept certain homosexual members.

Your problem is that the organization is not, and should not be, insulated from social pressure. There is increasing acceptance of homosexuality in this country, and it keeps increasing as the younger generation has a huge gap with the older generations in terms of tolerance and acceptance, and the older generations are dying out while the younger are coming into power. The pendulum has swung, same-sex marriage has risen above 50% in approval ratings, and is increasing daily. This is going to put social pressure on all sorts of businesses and organizations to stop the bigotry.

Bigotry is protected by the First Amendment as opinion, as long as it does not cross into discrimination. So, you can be a bigot for the rest of your days, and the SCOTUS will uphold that right. Just as I have the right to call you a bigot, and shall continue to do so until you end your bigotted ways. Or die out, whichever comes first.

LJ_51

There's that "shove down our throats" comment again. LOL

EVERYDAY NBC and MSN have a TOP HEADLINE article about GAYS. I would say that CERTAIN MEDIA is definitely shoving it down peoples throats with opinionated articles with little to zero facts.

I am not gay and have many gay friends... they know I am not gay and I know they are not heterosexual. My gay friends find this boy scout debate STUPID and want no part of this attack on a CHILDS organization. They also despise current MEDIA and feel they are hurting their lifestyle more then helping.

I find it very amusing that erin and other are always spouting off about it not being a sexual preference however when other arguments are brought up they quickly try to dissociate themselves from them, It hasn't been that long ago that homosexuality was considered a disease but the pressure from the lgbt community got that changed, so who is to say that in 10 years pedophiles wont be able to get the same thing done because they cant help who they are attracted to they are born that way (yes erin i know your tiring consenting argument but they cant help how they are born right ?). I also see several people saying god has nothing to do with it ..read the motto , god has a lot to do with it. It also amuses me that the pro gays say it has no affect on others , so does that mean homosexuals don't use peer pressure for sex and would never come on to a non homosexual ?

Janstince

Your actually wrong.

Sadly we do have two stores near me that will not serve specific people due to their race. There is nothing the Gvmnt can do to stop it.

Just like..

No shirt

No shoes

No service

The owners of this establishment have the right to refuse service at anytime to anyone.

ALL are valid for a business, and all are 100 percent legal.

They do not have to tell you why they are refusing you service, but they can legally do it. They will not be in business very long, but they can do it.

I find it very amusing that erin and other are always spouting off about it not being a sexual preference however when other arguments are brought up they quickly try to dissociate themselves from them, It hasn't been that long ago that homosexuality was considered a disease but the pressure from the lgbt community got that changed, so who is to say that in 10 years pedophiles wont be able to get the same thing done because they cant help who they are attracted to they are born that way (yes erin i know your tiring consenting argument but they cant help how they are born right ?).

I do not find your ignorance and bigotry amusing at all. Homosexuality was removed from the DSM when the medical experts realized (largely due to intensive research and studies conducted on the subject) that there was NO evidence to warrant its inclusion in the first place; it had been listed as a mental illness due to the irrational fear and outdated beliefs of those who had compiled the manual in the first place.

The fact that you cannot distinguish between homosexuality, which is legal as it involves consenting adults, from pedophilia, which is illegal because it involves children who cannot legally consent to such relationships, is not amusing, either. In fact, it is frightening that you cannot differentiate between such things.

It also amuses me that the pro gays say it has no affect on others , so does that mean homosexuals don't use peer pressure for sex and would never come on to a non homosexual ?

If a homosexual "came on" to a heterosexual, the heterosexual simply has to say no. How does homosexuality affect anyone else?

Sadly we do have two stores near me that will not serve specific people due to their race. There is nothing the Gvmnt can do to stop it.

Just like..

No shirt

No shoes

No service

The owners of this establishment have the right to refuse service at anytime to anyone.

ALL are valid for a business, and all are 100 percent legal.

WRONG.

We reserve the right to refuse service.

The sign's message is clear and simple, but the truth is that a business can't reserve a wholesale right to refuse service.

As places of public accommodation, private businesses are subject to federal and state anti-discrimination laws. These statutes prohibit discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin, disability, gender and sex. Some also include sexual orientation.

And others, well they outlaw even arbitrary discrimination.

You can usually refuse service in the following situations:

• When a customer is not properly dressed
• When a customer has been, or is being, disruptive
• When a customer harasses your employees or other customers
• When there are safety concerns
• When you know someone can't, or won't, pay
• When a customer is intoxicated or high
• When you need to protect another customer's privacy

It's still essential to apply these criteria on a bias-neutral basis. Even the most compelling business reason can't overcome obvious discrimination. So remember to use your right to refuse service wisely.

http://blogs.findlaw.com/free_enterprise/2011/11/have-you-reserved-your-right-to-refuse-service.html

Erin,

I know what the law says, I deal with it on a weekly bases with my job..

and No I am not wrong. You can believe what you want.. but I am 100 percent correct.

who said i didn't know the difference erin ? i just pointed out your same old dullard argument that people cant help how they are born, why do you always backtrack and call people names when they point out the same thing you keep preaching ? I mean there are studies that show violent people are born that way so why do we lock them up ? there are studies that show certain people are born with a predisposition to rape why do we lock them up ? I mean after all they are born that way and cant help it right ?

As do I, Jeremy -- and places of public accommodation cannot arbitrarily refuse service. They CAN refuse service, but they CAN also be sued for discrimination, and they could lose.

david -

Because people who are violent or rape others are infringing on others' rights to autonomy and security. People who are gay are not, as long as they are engaging in consensual activities. If they are engaging in non-consensual activities, guess what? They're CRIMINALS.

Way to go, comparing gay people to violent criminals and rapists. I'd say it's a new low. But it's not.

YES you can refuse service.. Spoken like a true liberal..

Try and take the business to court, you have to prove discrimination, which is easier said then done. IF you knew half as much as you claim to know you might be dangerous

Jeremy -

Sure, you can refuse service. It would be illegal, regardless of whether or not it can be proven in court.

However, if there is a pattern (and it sounds like there are at least two shops following an easily identifiable pattern in your area), then the courts should be able to make mincemeat of those bastards and revoke their licenses, if several people step up to the plate and sue.

But, your idea of "it's not illegal if I don't get caught" is rather disturbing. I mean, at least in the Civil Rights law area, these laws are designed to stop people from being hurt based on factors they cannot control (religion excepted, mostly). I can appreciate the social justice of voting with your wallet, but the civic justice of exposing these bastards in court seems necessary to drive these bastards into the ground. The message should be clear: you can be a bigotted @!$%# all you want, but you cannot deny the needs of a subset of society because of it.

RobGC, calling someone a "faggot" doesn't help your argument if you don't want to be called a bigot. As for your entire rant, I find it laughable and pathetic. Laughable about what you said. Pathetic because with all of your nasty verbiage, you consider yourself to be a Christian.

Don't let ErinNJ get to you. That is exactly what they want. They are full of themselves and quite arrogant at times. Everyone is wrong but them and their agnostic/atheist/homosexual friends. I just keep posting the truth, as it will always prevail.

If the ban continues, you'll still have gay boys in the Boy Scouts. They'll just continue to be too scared to be honest about it with their troop.

Cal_Chi: You might be onto something. If both straights and gays were honest with themselves about their orientation then maybe they could keep it to themselves and get on with the business of being a scout.

Hey, imnotlost,

How moral would you consider a boy scout organization that intentionally excludes some boys who have done nothing wrong, while shielding it's pedophile scoutmasters? That would be the BSA.

Time to get on the right side of history sir, if they mess this one up, after their pedophile scoutmaster scandal there won't be anything left of them anyway.

jquest; Five will get you ten that there are far more pedophilias in the Catholic Church than the scouts. Those creeps are everywhere there are children, and the cover-ups are a normal (albeit illegal) part of most entities to avoid lawsuits and embarassment.

If a 12 year boy admits he likes boys instead of keeping quiet about it, he needs to be prepared (no pun intended) to accept whatever comes his way. He might get lucky and snag a pedophile for a scout master and enjoy his tenure if he keeps quiet about it.

How moral would you consider a boy scout organization that intentionally excludes some boys who have done nothing wrong, while shielding it's pedophile scoutmasters? That would be the BSA.

No, that would be NAMBLA. But the media would want you to believe that this organization never existed.

He might get lucky and snag a pedophile for a scout master and enjoy his tenure if he keeps quiet about it.

Wow, congratulations I never thought anyone could be sick enough to say something like that. You are now official they lowest most disgusting person I have ever seen comment on the net. Just because a boy decides he is gay does not mean he deserves to be molested. I assume by your comment that you also want 12 year old strait boys to be molested by women, or is it just gay kids you detest so much?

Sigh... I'm not sure why I'm commenting, but here it goes...

If I was a member of the Boy Scouts, then, wait for it, I was violating their ban! So many gay and lesbians struggle with who they are growing up. I was in denial from puberty to age 22. So, I'm sure there are plenty of gay boys and lesbian girls in the scouts.

I don't know why this is an issue and why straight people raise such an uproar over stuff like this.

If you want to throw the bible at it, I'll give you over a dozen things in the bible that are not followed by Christians today. Pedophilia? Look at the idiots who went into your religion to achieve their wants. I had a very close family member who was molested by a Catholic head of school, or whatever the f*** they're called. And no, it wasn't a gay thing. It was a male molesting a female.

People wonder why organized religion in this country is crumbling... Quite frankly, I'm glad it is.

MJ1986............. I don't see organized religion crumbling. I do see the few bad apples being exploited to make the church look bad but the truth be told there are millions more molestations taking place outside the church than in it. It happens every where.

I am happy the BSA has finally realized that perhaps the majority is on the side of thier current rules and should not bend to the pressures of the gay community to change them. Most feel that to change the rules to allow gays goes against the fundimental stance of the BSA. Being gay has been considered wrong since the Boy Scouts was founded. there is NOTHING stopping the gay community from creating a similor group they can even prohibit straights from joining if they like. That is your right as a private group. I am not a veteran so i know I won't be allowed to become a member of the VFW.

What if anything did you learn from Boy Scouts with that outlook? If you support the Boy Scout motto, then would support Christian principles.

So why didn't you use what you learned from the Boy Scouts and turn in this gentleman to be punished for his crimes? These crimes happen to everyone, I have personal story's too, but I stood up for myself and did the right thing and feel good about it.

Finally Mr. MJ1986, we all suffer weaknesses, but for those that overcome gain self-confidence and self-worth, and do not hold ill will for others. If anything they feel compassion and charity, and try to help those in need.

Evenmore, God created this world, and if we begin to pervert his principles and the purpose of this worldly existence, he has the power and authority to take away the blessing of waking up to a safe and sound day of learning and purposeful existence. So YES, we are going to be around A LOT longer than you and your kind that share your outlook. Blame it on global warming or whatever hypothesis you want to concoct, things will get worse if we follow this path, and you will be a witness to severe suffering and crumbling.

RobGC -

So, god created this world, and he can take it out; make another looks just like it?

Yeah, it was funnier when Cosby did it. By the way, when you get any kind of evidence that whichever god you worship actually exists, then we'll talk about appeasing the bastard (right after we find out how much firepower it would take to kill the @!$%#er good).

Nice post.

As a gay man (not by choice... why the hell would I choose to be gay?), thank you for your kind words. I feel like I walk on eggshells day in and day out.

As for gun control... Ehhh, something needs to change.

"Cal_Chi: You might be onto something. If both straights and gays were honest with themselves about their orientation then maybe they could keep it to themselves and get on with the business of being a scout."

Keep it to themselves? Really? When you hold your wife's hand in public, or put her photo on your desk, or talk to coworkers about what the two of you did over the weekend, or go to school to watch your kids in a play, then you are being PUBLIC about your sexuality. When boys talk about their girlfriends, take them to dances and other things, they are being public about their sexuality. Heterosexuals do NOT "keep it to themselves". Being gay or straight is MORE than an actual sex act. Sexual orientation - even for celibate nuns for crying out loud - is part and parcel of who we are. Being WHO THEY ARE, as BEST THEY CAN, is the BUSINESS of being a Boy Scout.

Is that because you are the A$$?

Then don't be gay A. Friend?

No one is trying to force YOU to be gay, all they want is the same rights as everyone else. If I only like to screw fat chicks, does that somehow affect YOUR lifestyle? Would that mean that then YOU would have to screw fat chicks too? Meh, anyone who post something as dumb as you did, probably won't understand anyways.

However, the huge problem here is BSA's proposed solution which is no solution at all. Instead of telling local groups they have to discriminate, the proposal is to tell them they can still discriminate if they want to. That is far from helpful for boys in much of our nation. Related: It is amazing how our Girl Scouts and Canada's Scouts both welcome gay kids and get along just fine thanks.

Justme-123, you said: "Related: It is amazing how our Girl Scouts and Canada's Scouts both welcome gay kids and get along just fine thanks."

I don't think so!

The truth is the Canadian Scouts have lost 50% of their troops since allowing gays into their organization back in 1998. CS is also losing property, closing offices, and is laying off staff.

So, where are you coming up with gays and the the Canadian Scouts are getting along just fine?

Your just preying on people's ignorance.

Justme-123 - However, the huge problem here is BSA's proposed solution which is no solution at all.

It's a very small first step, but it's exactly like their racist policy prior to 1974 when they let each troop decide for itself whether to be whites-only.

Whether it is the 21st century or the 50th century, God does not change, nor does His word. This issue has never been about equal rights or civil liberties, but it is about morality. All of you who engage in a same-sex life style or are in support of it can argue and debate all you want, but some day you will die and when you stand before the One who is Sovereign, then there will be no sarcastic remarks or arguments, but only fear of judgment. yes, God loves all and disires all people to be saved, but it requires repentance.

Jesus did not come here and shed His blood so that people could continue living in the sinful nature. Let me be clear, those who practice this life style have the freedom to do so, but the consequences are loss of eternal life. And for you people who continue to claim that there is nothing in the word of God that speaks against men with men and woman with woman, you're not reading. Not only that, but you're not concerned about finding out the truth of this matter, as all that you want to do is circomvent God's word.

Now, anyone who is engaged in this life style or is supporting it, is living in the flesh and will never inherit eternal life. But God loves the world and is offering savaltion to those who will [REPENT] and receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. There is no such thing as Gay Christian 101! You have either repented and have received Christ and are wrestling to overcome the sinful nature or you're justifying your sins and embracing them. If you are doing the latter, nothing has changed and you remain in your sins and the wrath of God rests on you. You may argue with those of us who are warning you, but you will not get by God. The real bet is remaining as you are and then taking your last breath, at that time you will know the truth, albeit too late. You have the opportunity for salvation, but not by your own rules. Homosexuality and the rest of the sins of the flesh is exactly why God's wrath is coming, where God is going to carry out that time of great distress such as the world has not seen from the beginning, till now or shall ever be and it's coming fast!

Ahawatukee, your god is an unjust god. Go to any childrens hospital and look at the kids who will not make it, oh I forgot, his calling them home. How about those 20 kids killed in Ct, oh I forgot, it was a man who did the killing and god could not stop him, and anyway he wanted to bring those children home. Christians have had 2000 years to perfect all their answers to any questions asked and you blindly follow. Basically what religion is, is for a way for a few to control the many. Disobey us and you go to hell.

David in comment 5.5, in regards to your comments about the Boy Scouts in Canada, correlation does not equal causation.

THEY have the same rights as everyone else. Joining the BSA is NOT a right....it is a privilege handed out by a PRIVATE organization. They have rules and they have standards, if you can't abide then YOU don't join.

And IF they decide to change those rules, it's their right isn't it? So what's all the fuss about?

Because it just goes to show you that people who watch fox news ALSO watch other news channels as well and we are not as warped as those who only look at MSNBC.

Why don't you guys try commenting on news articles without cursing people out? Is that considered the way of msnbc?

Fox used to allow comments a couple of years ago. I tried getting on to the discussion boards there a couple of times, but the comments were so stupid I gave it up. At the time I came to the conclusion that the Fox fans who commented here were the smart ones. I imagine the stupidity of the comments was just too embarrassing, even for the people at Fox network, so they shut it down.

Spot ON, Indie. One of the most thoughtful and wonderful posts I've read in days.

You captured the essence of what it must be like for gay people, especially kids and teens to deal with all this, and how a select group of people-and a number of them posting here, would in fact wish them nothing but a life of difficulty or even death solely for how they were born, or to appease a sick and warped version of their religious beliefs.

Kudos and many thanks to you!

The last point of the Scout Oath is "Morally straight.". I view homosexuality as a morally wrong topic due to my religious beliefs. Boy Scouts would have millions of dollars worth of work to do if they overturned the gay policy. The reason that woman was removed from her position as den mother was because she was in violation with hot only the anti-gay policy but also the youth protection policy as well. The youth protection policy deals with the seperation and protection of scouts and also deals with situations involving both genders. When both genders are involved in an activity special procedures are involved like seperate campsites to avoid issues. Could you see a problem with a homosexual person grouped and forced to stay with his own gender. This would create a paradox in the Youth Protection policy.

The only fool-proof solution is for there to be seperate units for homosexuals. And I don't think they would appreciate that much.

Scouting is also to embody a religious aspect of our lives too. Many churches do not support gay marriage mine is one. Scouting is supposed to embody old style moralls.

I support the ban but I do not believe that should stop people from participating. I suppoort a don't ask don't tell policy where for scouts. Unfortunately the orientation of adults is a must know due to the recent number of crimes that have come to light in the past few months.

I don't want to exclude people from this amazing program.

But I also feel uncomfortable around people who are openly gay.

Since when did a life style make you a race of people you cannot compare yourself to the struggle of the black race just because of your chosen life style and for every study you can quote that says you are born gay I can quote you one that says it is a chosen life style so please don't compare yourself to the historical struggles of the black race.

Bill-

You are ragingly ignorant. No gay person I know 'chose' to be gay.

You, however, chose to be willfully ill-informed arrogantly bigoted.

There doesn't need to be a 'study' to prove gay people are born gay.

Just like there is no study that confirms you're hopelessly stupid. Like gays I know everywhere, you just ARE.

Well said, Indie... I wouldn't wish being gay on anyone. But, life is wonderful, and is meant to live. It's sad that some people have so much hate.

JP. That last that you mentioned, does actually exist.

http://pss.sagepub.com/content/23/2/187

Why don't you go learn something "pedophilia and homosexuality" are two different things. Quit trying to link the two!

@uisignorant-2 You must not have been a Boy Scout or know any gay people. I have never meet anyone who was gay and wanted to be with anyone who wasn't gay also. I left the Boy Scouts when I was 15 in 1960 because I moved where the next oldest scout was 12.

@Don Pedophilia and being a male are two different things also. But you wouldn't let a 16 year old Boy Scout share a tent with a 12 year old brownie, even though he is probably not a pedophile.

I would not want my son going to Scout Camp with other boys that were openly gay. It would cause a sexual tension that shouldn't be there - I'm not talking pedophilia, I'm talking boys attracted to boys. I wouldn't want my son to go camping with a girl because of that same sexual attraction. Imagine how uncomfortable a boy would be undressing in front of a gay boy!

We do have a boy in our troop that is gay - in Utah - and the adults are aware but the other boys aren't (though they suspect because he's recently decided to do the lispy voice thing). The leaders always have him bunk by his own brothers, so the other boys aren't undressing in front of him.

What solutions are there? Do you have one tent for boys that are gay and another for the straight ones?

Chris,

The solution is to teach your son that he has already undressed in front of many gay boys in the locker room. Nothing different will happen now that he knows some of them are gay, and he best get used to it because THAT'S LIFE and DEAL. :)

It's really not difficult ...

Don Pedophilia and being a male are two different things also. But you wouldn't let a 16 year old Boy Scout share a tent with a 12 year old brownie, even though he is probably not a pedophile.

But which situation is more likely to happen? It wouldn't be the first time, something like this could happen.

Boys watch [leaders] very closely. Boys also look up to older Boy Scout members and want to imitate them and follow their examples. Boys at that stage of maturity emulate male role models,” he said.

Quinlan warned that a homosexual “who gently eases boys and young men into exposure of homosexuality by his own personal example promotes homosexual behavior as normal, natural and healthy.”

“This paves the way for youth to question their own sexuality and be affirmed into homosexuality,” the PFOX president said. “Promoting homosexuality to youth is also a political ploy to further homosexual approval.”

Having formerly practiced homosexual behavior, Quinlan sees the hypocrisy of homosexual advocates who are pushing for the inclusion of their lifestyle in the Boy Scouts.

“To insist that homosexuals be allowed to participate in the Boy Scouts while demanding that heterosexual counseling for molested children be outlawed is a gross miscarriage of justice,” he said. “What do the Boy Scouts have to say about this injustice?”

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/ex-gay-warns-scouts-boys-imitate-leaders/#TBXyUHLglrcIOlgM.99

@Kevin: Well actually, it is different if you know some of them are gay because then you can assign them separate tents.

@Richard: So we are just supposed to trust that gays only have attraction too each other? Is there some magical "gaydar" that allows them to distinguish? Do homosexuals have some aura above their heads that allow them to only be attracted to each other?

The LGBT community expects us to recognize homosexuality as a legitimate sexual attraction the same as heterosexuality. But how can we treat it as a legitimate sexual attraction if we don't acknowledge the physical side of it? If it is a sexual attraction on par with heterosexual attractions, then it must be subject to physical arousal by a member of the same sex. And if such stimulation does not occur, then it is not a sexual attraction, in which case we should not be treating it as one.

argumentativebutfair

very good point

@argumentativebutfair LOL at logic (sarcasm). The mainstream media says gays are better parents, have stronger relationships, are better at marriage and would never ever hit on a straight person or make them feel uncomfortable. Remember, never debate, ask questions or use logic instead of emotion because to do otherwise makes one a bigot. See how it works?

how is pedophilia any differant that homosexuality and hetrosexuality ? according to the gay community you cant help who you are attracted to

David, you need to learn about what "legal consent" means.

how does that change how they were born Erin ?

Pedophiles are not "born that way," and legal consent makes all the difference in how the law views them, David. If you can't recognize that, you need to go to school.

Actually, you need to get beyond elementary school.

There is strong scientific evidence that no one is born a pedophile. The vast majority of pedophiles had also been molested themselves as children, which led to them developing a distorted sexuality. Stories of other types of abuse and neglect are also prominent among pedophiles. The majority of pedophiles also have adult sexual relationships, which shows their inborn sexual preference. The majority of pedophiles, some studies show as high as 98%, identify as heterosexual, and are often married to women.

yup there is strong scientific evidence about alot of things but homosexuals like to twist and bend it to fit thier arguments

So cite some of your "strong scientific evidence," david -- IF you can find some.

Elizabeth-Or should I say lesbo? Who needs the Boy Scouts? Nobody "needs" them, they are a private organization that kids and parents "volunteer" to join. They teach morality which by the lefts definition means almost anything, they teach leadership skills which our own President could have benefitted from, they teach survival which doesn't include a condom, a "clean" syringe or a welfare credit card.

Gays want into this organization because they are hell bent on pushing their lifestyle into every crevice of this country. Enough is enough! You can come out of the closet but don't for a minute expect everyone to drop their beliefs for you.

Cretin!

GO SCREW YOURSELF LUKEWARM!

You have the nerve to call someone a cretin, when you yourself do the same thing you are criticizing.....two wrongs don't make a right! Just because one doesn't like the Scouts doesn't make them a "lesbo". All you show is your own ignorance and inhumanity. One doesn't have to be gay to disagree with a discriminatory policy.....regardless of whether joining is voluntary. Funny how pointing fingers at how immoral the "left" is never comes back to point right back at you.....because my understanding of faith and believe in God (and Jesus) is about not judging and being kind to fellow man, regardless of circumstance. By all means, continue with your beliefs.....I could care less if you drop them or not. But, when the BSA takes federal and state funding, as well as taxpayer dollars for support, they do have an obligation to hear from the public.......they aren't completely a private organization. And, even if they were......that doesn't mean that the federal government has an obligation to allow them to exist in a country that has protections against discrimination, that have been upheld all the way to the Supreme Court.

"Lukewarm", your comments show that you were never a Scout, so your opinion with regard as to what they teach or don't teach is from a position of ignorance.

Ironic that while the BSA may change their policy to include folks of the LBMT world, they would still deny your membership based on your clearly expressed personal standards and behaviors.

E.A. As a former scout and current Boy Scout leader you are offensive! No we don't want our young men to grow trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean or reverent. We want them all to be extreme religious bigots. Boy Scouts have done more positive in one day than you will ever do in your lifetime.

Elizabeth Aspen,

My uncle was an Eagle Scout, he lives in Massachusetts, and is as liberal as they get.

We get along just fine even though we both differ greatly on both political and social positions.

So, your own ignorance and hasty generalizations don't hold any water in my experience and my uncle's life.

not my fault - We want them all to be extreme religious bigots.

That does appear to be what the BSA is teaching today.

Carsonk

GO SCREW YOURSELF LUKEWARM!

You have the nerve to call someone a cretin, when you yourself do the same thing you are criticizing.....two wrongs don't make a right! Just because one doesn't like the Scouts doesn't make them a "lesbo". All you show is your own ignorance and inhumanity. One doesn't have to be gay to disagree with a discriminatory policy.....regardless of whether joining is voluntary. Funny how pointing fingers at how immoral the "left" is never comes back to point right back at you.....because my understanding of faith and believe in God (and Jesus) is about not judging and being kind to fellow man, regardless of circumstance. By all means, continue with your beliefs.....I could care less if you drop them or not. But, when the BSA takes federal and state funding, as well as taxpayer dollars for support, they do have an obligation to hear from the public.......they aren't completely a private organization. And, even if they were......that doesn't mean that the federal government has an obligation to allow them to exist in a country that has protections against discrimination, that have been upheld all the way to the Supreme Court.

Regardless of what people say with the BSA taking tax dollars, or funding, it must be not enough or not fall under the category to make the BSA a part of federal laws. If so then the government would had already been all over them. Thats what Im guessing. Once an organization does something to lose its status as private - or religious ect ect then I would think the government would intervene.

Your right about the Supreme court upholding the BSA. Years ago they favored the BSA and said they had every right to fire based upon any reason. The BSA is not bound to federal laws for hiring and employment.

This is a Huge part of the one way wall of Separation of Church and state , where the Government can not interfere in religion or make set rules standards for religion, or make a state religion ect ect .

So you want Gay people in there own club along with people that are not white? You want those people in there own club also? How about where they shop or sit at a movie? hmmm

Don-We want gay people to stop bullying everyone else and realize that millions of Americans don't agree with their lifestyle. You don't agree with people, right? Why is it that you people on the left force your beliefs on everyone else but claim "religion" is forcing its beliefs on you?

You people are idiots and I mean it, you define the word and the word defines you. NO, MEANS NO! Get it?

That "great idea" is called segregation... and we all know how that turned out, and why.

I think they should exclude all red-heads. Can't trust them, they're all closet homosexuals anyway.

Luke, yer' bein an ass. Yer idea of them bullying you is that they exist somewhere that you can see em. Quit bein an ass.

Laura you are so much dumber than you look. The Black Panthers are not a "normal" club that everyone should be allowed into. We are talking about a BSA, a family oriented American organziation that is supposed to teach boys to better grow up to be honorable men. By saying gay boys can't join because of the Bible, you are not just excluding them from your little "club", you are excluding them from your religion, your view of America, and your entire view of whether they can grow up to be decent and normal men. You are essentially telling them they are not worth anything in your eyes.

I see you have a little boy in your picture, now imagine if not only dozens of grown men felt it was their moral obligation to tell him that he was a worthless piece of sh!t and the scum of the earth, that shouldn't be allowed out of his own home, but thousands of people agreed with them. How do you think that would make him feel? Even though he had done absolutely nothing wrong. How would that make you feel?

Pray your child never knows the kind of senseless discrimination and vile hatred you are showing these children.

@ Heather Barron-5909400 We segregate the genders, should we end that too? No Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts, just "Scouts". Public restrooms?

Bruce, I was actually thinking that going coed would be the next step after allowing gays. Just like in the Army. I have to admit that when I was a Boy Scout, coed camping trips would have been tops on my list of things to do in the summer time. At camp Huacacush, there was a girls horseback riding club part way around the lake. Fortunately, I and my best friend were really good at catching small animals. We managed to get a lot of unsupervised time to "collect specimens" for the Naturalist at the camp. Coincidentally, we did our collecting near one of the easily identifiable trails along which the girls rode their horses. That was as close to coed camping as I ever got in the Scouts. Any Boy Scouts who are complaining to their parents that they don't want gays in their troop, are simply not thinking this thing through.

@ukewarm Amen!

Why is it when people demand that bigots stop their persecution you call them "bullies"???

Time for the Boy Scouts to evolve and let the fundies go and form their own groups instead.

That way the rest of us who truly respect the idea of an all-inclusive America and Boy Scouts can move forward.

These pious fools don't 'own' the Boy Scouts, they merely sponsor troops and as such, should evolve with the understanding of what true equality really means. Given their screed, they have ruined scouting for many because of their arrogance and hatreds of gays which they pridefully wallow in.

A lot of us are sick and tired of subsidizing their tax exempt bigotries. That is the next great battle coming. De-funding a lot of these religious groups whose taxpayer funded exemptions have allowed them to indulge in their politicking to deny gays and their families equal rights.

How about no scout masters who have been adulterers or have divorced. Even the gay ones.

If no local organizations want gays then making this decision on a national scale will not make any difference. But what if you are wrong and some local organizations don't match up to your idea of morality? What if they believe in equality? Oh no, what then?

Luke, I am a scout leader, I am "in the organization" and I do want scouts who are gay (or atheist for that matter) to be in our organization. Many others within the BSA share this belief. This kind of discrimination is just wrong. How can we teach our kids that this an acceptable policy, we cannot.

What's the rush? Just say "NO" and end this debate once and for all. Enough of the bullies on the left trying to demonize EVERYONE who doesn't agree with them. Enough of the bullying!!! The Boy Scouts said "NO" last time so stop trying to politicize this issue. THEY DON'T WANT GAY PEOPLE IN THEIR PRIVATE ORGANIZATION!

Are you people on the left deaf? No, means NO!

Sigh... Where do I begin?

First off, the people on "the left" were rather vocal this last presidential election.

Second, it sounds you were the one to "politicize" this. Hypocrite to the gills.

If you were in a minority group where you were denied, wouldn't you be pissed? Common sense.

How about we try actually treating them equally, and then we can see if you're right about them still complaining? Or better yet, why don't we start making you endure the same hassles they go through and see how long it is before youstart complaining?

What do the Boy Scouts teach that is not valuable to every youth?

Back to the 50's. Time of more intense bigotry, and racism. More smoking too - that may catch a lot of you in the end...

Heather Barron-5909400 read a bible ginger!

HEATHER - Why in the world would we as a society treat PERVERTS equally? They are mentally sick and socially perverse. A healthy society would never give equal status to those that practice perversion! Idiot!

Dr. E

Joe there is nothing anyone needs to say to you, nothing at all.

God himself will judge you in the end, for pushing YOUR agenda with HIS name.

Oh, joe...

In the 1950's, there were just as many gays and lesbians as there are now. We're now just starting to get vocal. It is the same thing that happened with African Americans. Plain and simple.

Also, joe, have you really read the bible? I can guarantee that you are violating many, many verses in it.
Why pick and choose?

lame

Go talk to someone who has had their house burned down or a relative lynched by the actual KKK, then get back to us on how they are the same.

I don't fall for that trap being labeled as a "bigot". Come up with something else to try and justify yourself because that dog won't hunt.

argumentativebutfair - Go talk to someone who has had their house burned down or a relative lynched by the actual KKK, then get back to us on how they are the same.

Maybe you should talk to Matthew Shepard?

Google "gay hate crimes"... You'd be surprised. Matthew Shepherd ring a bell?

Very, very similar to the KKK... and yes, I have done my research on both topics.

skrekk

Maybe you should talk to Matthew Shepard?

Yeah, and find out that he was in the middle of a cowboy car, in the middle of the night, in the middle of Wyoming selling drugs.

And:

The Laramie Project

Are we supposed to feel sorry for this behavior.?


Leviticus 18-22 "Thou shall not lie with mankind as with womankind, it is abomination."


Oh, and "PRAISE GOD"

AND YOU MATTHEW SHEPARD AND LARAMIE PROJECT fans READ THIS:

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=277685&page=1

AND "PRAISE GOD"

===========================================

Matthew Shepard wasn't murdered by the Boy Scouts, so what's your point?

Folks, this post is a clear indication of a mind suffering from terminal political correctness. A dead giveaway is the phrase "had i realized the hatred in this organization, I would have stayed away from it" A mind suffering from political correctness invariably thinks "hatred" is anything that contradicts the left's agenda and the old, left over from the Sixties notion that freedom means "anything goes, all is permitted." And thus, we have discovered the sum total of the cause of cultural deterioration in the wider society and of intellectual and moral deterioration within elizabeth and individuals like her.

Of course it's OK to stereotype the Mormons and Catholics. I grew up Catholic and can say that every priest/nun/bishop etc. I met were nothing but kind to me. You can't preach tolerance and acceptance if it's arbitrary on your terms elizabeth.

Elizabeth- I don't know what Church you are speaking about, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints stopped the practice of plural marriage in 1890. That was 123 years ago. Where have you been ? Please get up to speed before posting such garbage.

by your logic, teachers' unions support pedophilia, too.

Really? cuz I seen my 2 male dogs buttf*cking earlier today....

maybe they didn't get the memo.

Actually, jashn, animals that do engage in that type of activity are 1) physically sick or ill, or 2) reacting to disturbances in their environment, either caused by man or by natural forces. Animals and other creatures in the wild are programmed by nature to reproduce, so such behavior is a clear sign to any intelligent biologist that something is wrong. The bottom line? It remains a perversion no matter how much you and your fruity pals may wish otherwise. Its time to take off those rainbow shades...

I think you need to study more OldKingBlog. A 2 second Google search will give AMPLE resources to prove that homosexuality does indeed occur naturally in the animal kingdom, and always has. The bottom line? You neither have the intelligence to properly research, nor do you have the intelligence to differentiate between actual science and your own bigotry.

How is it possible for a 3% section of the population of the United States able to force their agenda on everyone else??? Last time I checked there are over 300,000,000 people who don't subscribe to being a homosexual... The problem with homsexuals is that they are angry and hateful and want so badly for everyone to tell them that their choices are ok. If you were to ask any qualified scientist for his or her unbiased scientific opinion as to how they would label two animals of the same sex trying to reproduce or carry on like a male and female, the scientist would call them an anomaly. And although you don't want to hear this you as homosexuals are anomalies...Humans and all animals were created to reproduce in order to survive... It is quite simple and it's the one thing you homosexuals dispise...Logic... If the boy scouts want it to be a straight organization then homosexuals can start their own club, you can call it the "Awkward Anomalies"... And another thing, stop calling yourselves "Gay" this word means happy or bright colored, and from all of your bitter and hateful comments you are neither happy nor very bright...

They want acceptance, and I can understand why. It's a normal human desire to want to be accepted. The problem is that it's kind of like people wanting the government to cut spending. They're all for it as long as none of their stuff gets cut as a result. I think many people who support the gay movement do so as long as it's somebody else's kid they're supporting, not their own. I'm speaking generally of course and not saying there are not parents who love and support unconditionally. However just as it's normal to want to be accepted, it's also normal to be disappointed. I don't think changing the Boy Scouts will change this.

Disparity - How is it possible for a 3% section of the population of the United States able to force their agenda on everyone else???

Maybe it's because most Americans aren't dumb bigots and support equal rights for gays and straights? Remember, most gay kids have straight parents like me. Most gay kids have straight friends and relatives.

And not everyone is a clueless bible thumper.

Homosexuality is known in nature. Do your research. Animals do it too.

I think my IQ was lowered after reading some of this crap.

skrekk

And not everyone is a clueless bible thumper.

Read This:

"www.end-times-prophecy.org/bible-prophecy-and-probability.html"

and get back to me and explain how "CLUELESS" prophecies 900 years before came true.
==============================================================

MJ1986

Homosexuality is known in nature. Do your research. Animals do it too.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

A lot of them kill there own young too, now your saying that's OK too!!!!

=======================================================

yes walter they profess that homosexuality is in nature but when you point out as you did that those same species practice cannibalism they call you a bigot etc etc because only their argument is valid

Another point that escapes you bigots: the fact that homosexuality occurs in so many animal species (besides humans) is proof that it is naturally-occurring, not a benchmark for morality (although homosexuality is not immoral).

You bigots want to insist that sexual orientation -- specifically homosexuality -- is chosen, but the fact that it occurs in animals is further proof that it is not chosen. Although what difference that makes is incomprehensible; we are constitutionally protected in our choices.

skrekk

we can simply dismiss it as poor parenting

There goes erin with her "if the animals do it so should humans" argument

"It is high-time in America to de-fund these groups of their tax exemptions when they make any attempt to stick their noses into matters that are none of their business"

Why, because they practice something you disagree with?

No, because you shouldn't get my tax dollars to subsidize an overt exercise to deny my fellow Americans of their basic equal rights, or expanding of those rights, which if you are straight (and I imagine you are) already fully enjoy without question.

Nobody should have to subsidize these tax exemptions of religious groups whose mission is to destroy their lives.

A tax exemption is not a subsidy.

Freedom of religion and association are protected in the constitution. The reason churches get a tax exemption is because the supreme court realized the government could effectively ban a religion by taxing it out of existence. "The power to tax implies the power to destroy."

None of your tax dollars are being payed to them.

The exemption comes with very specific rules, and one of them is supposed to be that their monies are not used for political purposes. Every election season a select group of obnoxious fundie pastors goes out on Sunday sermons and OVERTLY throws a middle finger at this law by outwardly promoting certain political positions and candidates.

The IRS doesnt have enough agents for this, and even if brought up, they are reluctant to 'enforce' this part of the law.

Eventually the arrogance of these certain religious groups is going to tick-off just enough people to start having this become a real discussion, especially when there is a more moderate Congressional majority. I can assure that given these trends, both of these things will happen. If they aren't careful, and stop sticking their noses into the lives of others who are no business of theirs, they are going to find themselves on the wrong side of this question. Then we'll see how many of these hideously ugly mega-churches and their pastors will survive once they stop being allowed to suck off the tax exemption teat.

And why shouldn't they be allowed to voice their politics? Religion isn't just a weekly service filled with a bunch of empty ceremonies. It directly affects the way people live and interact in society. What the government does effects Christians just as much as it does everyone else. Religion is all about applying itself to the present. Do you honestly expect the church to just talk about what life was like in Biblical times and not address how they believe it relates to the present? Do you expect Christians to just claim they believe in something but not live according to what they believe?

If a church claims to be against abortion, why shouldn't they be allowed to speak out against a government that supports abortion?

If a church claims to be against gay marriage, why shouldn't they be allowed to speak out against gay marriage?

Or do you believe the Church should just spew a bunch of empty rhetoric and not call on anyone to make changes?

Why should the government be above reproach? If the church can condemn another organization and call upon them to change, why shouldn't they be allowed to do the same with the government? Why should the government be protected from criticism?

If a church sees what it believes to be an injustice, they should be allowed to speak out. Why should it be any different if the perceived injustice happens to be by the government?

Freedom of association, religion, and speech are all protected in the constitution, and the constitution trumps IRS regulation. Why does the IRS get to decide what the pastor can and cannot say during service?

Because Argumentative....these churches see nothing wrong in politicking against gay people, while also being subsidized by tax dollars gay people and their supporters pay- That's why. Like Jews paying taxes to Hitler and subsidizing their own demise.

The countless lives ruined by these so-called 'benign' sermons, has caused a lot of mental anguish over feeling hated solely for who gay people are, fed suicides, denial of hospital rights and visitations to their own partners of many years, taken kids away, jobs lost, some fundies chased a kid with HIV (who wasn't even gay) and his family from his home in Indiana, and the thousands hurt and killed in numerous hate crimes. And a lot of the justification for this behavior came from the pulpits of so-called 'houses of worship'.

Not to mention many, many so-called conservative politicians who made their careers by feeling very entitled to go into government service, emboldened by these sermons of hate and exclusion and think they are doing 'god's work' by creating laws to deny and even strip civil, secular rights from many gay people and their families regardless of whether or not they even share their theocratic worldview.

That is going to stop. No gay person has ever called for straights or religious people to be denied their own secular civil rights, and you can keep on preaching your hate amongst yourselves, but now that people see the damage it does, the blowback of decades of unyielding intolerance and violence is starting to finally turn. Many people, and most young people have had it with the hate on their gay friends and family and are not taking this anymore.

And stripping the tax exemption from churches who preach intolerance of gays and promote the politics of denial of gays people's secular civil rights and equality is the next step if they keep playing this deadly game of hate.

Freedom of speech is protected no matter what. It doesn't matter if you disagree with it, or think it is hateful, it is still protected under the First Amendment. That's why even neo-nazi's still have freedom of speech.

No Christian should be called a raging ignorant hate-filled Jesus pimping bigot. I totally agree with argumentativebutfair. I have the right to my religious beliefs just as you atheists (or whatever you are) have the right to yours. I should have known you Libs would resort to name calling. BTW, race has nothing to do with homosexuality.

I am a Christian, and I do not mind admitting it. My main goal is to love Jesus and try to live my life as I feel he would want me to live it. When I leave this earth, I want to see my wonderful Savior and hear him say "Well done". You can call me a Bible thumping religious freak and it does not change my feelings toward God.

Gerri, I have some very bad news for you.....very bad.

Jesus loved everyone, even the prostitutes, He didn't deny anyone.

You disgrace Him with your hatred and bigotry. When you stand before Him, I think His view on this subject will be very different then what you think, I think you are going to be mighty suprised. Especially when He tells you that only God almighty is the judge, and you lived as a blight to your community and faith.

Well Gerri,

Maybe when you so-called 'christians' stop attempting to have your religious ideology enshrined into law above others who don't share your views, and quit making gay people your chew toys and demonizing them as second-class citizens by denying them equal rights in secular civil law and marriage, and stop singling out gay people and their lives with overtly hate-filled rants and actions maybe you won't be called 'Jesus Pimps'.

Your rant proves my point that you, nor 'argument' nor anyone else on here has the intellectual courage to refute or justify anything that has happened to many gay people because of the hate many of your churches overtly promote when preaching against them and their lives.

You FAIL the biggest hallmark of 'christianity', passing judgement on others over your perceptions of biblical sin, which also has no place in secular law since so much of it is total scientifically-refuted nonsense.

Given that I am spiritual, but not overtly religious, I don't have the seemingly insecure need to proselytize every chance I get and justify my hatreds and bigotries with a seriously warped version of theology. I would hate to be as off-putting as you and many others here are.

Many people are so turned-off by the rants of you pious semi-christians. It seems within a generation your type will continue to die-off and your angry and antiquated hates hopefully will go with you. We will all certainly be the better for it.

Pray for YOUR forgiveness. I certainly pray for yours.

@JP: Why are you changing the subject? We are not talking about whether or not the church's stance on homosexuals is right or justified. We are talking about whether or not they are entitled to have that stance, and whether they should be taxed for it, which YOU have neither refuted nor justified.

You should not be subsidized to have that stance and also be allowed to promote politicians nor parties that believe such views be enshrined into secular law. The tax code states that is a clear violation.

Those are biblical beliefs of morality, that are not universally believed nor held and should not apply to the general population, about which now more than half in this country do not share your worldview on gay people and their lives.

I really wish YOU would actually think a little more critically about how you can still retain your beliefs to your hearts content and appreciate that those beliefs have no place in law over anyone who doesn't agree with them.

And before you go down this shopworn path, murder, under-age sex, kleptomania and other odd criminal conflation is not the same as same sex attraction and relationships amongst consenting adults.

BSA allows G & L I return my Eagle the next day.

"On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight."

It either means what it says or it doesn't.

As a Libertarian, I agree that the government should leave the decisions of consenting adults alone. I'm sure everyone here preaching about the rights of consenting adults is also for not leaving marriage as a contract between just two consenting adults, right? That's so 20th century! Please tell me why 4 consenting adults cannot marry each other?

Churches lose their religious tax exemption for participating in politics, because it violates separation of church and state. Some pastors make a big deal out of flouting this law publicly, because they want to get the chance to challenge it in court. To which I say, be careful what you wish for, you might get it.

@JP they are not subsidized. None of your tax money goes to pay for a churches functions, preacher's salary, etc.

@Den "Separation of Church and state" doesn't appear in the constitution. Freedom of religion does. What is in the constitution trumps what is not in the constitution.

Every post I've even seen that begins with "I am not a homophobe" is always filled with homophobia.

If you write homophobic statements, you are a homophobe.

Norman W.....remember that you will be persecuted for statements like that, but be of good cheer because so was Christ.

While homosexuals vehemently reject being considered mentally ill, they have no problems regarding those who dislike homosexuality as mentally ill(homophobia)

Narrow mindedness and prideful ignorance is actually a mental health issue since it can damage your ability to make or hinder making, rational life-altering decisions.

Most conservative religious types think pig-headed arrogance of their convictions, and their obnoxious proselytizing somehow earns them points with Jesus or the holy spirit.

And they think gay people are sick? Go figure.

@Heather: You are abusing the term "phobia". Phobia means an irrational fear. Nothing in his comment implies fear. Maybe he does in fact have an irrational fear of gay people, but you can't make that judgement based strictly on the comment which doesn't suggest fear.

No one has ever considered homophobia a mental illness. The definition of homophobia is rather broad: "irrational fear of, aversion to, or discrimination against homosexuality or homosexuals" You don't have to be afraid to have an irrational aversion to homosexuals.

It's sad that people need to use such dishonest and misleading arguments. It doesn't prove anything except that you may be qualified to be a politician.

---

As for Norman's post, it doesn't matter if you think gays should only have "some rights." Unless you're willing to give equal rights to all, it doesn't make your position any better.

I wish some of you people would remember either the scout oath/pronuse or even the pledge of allegiance.

What are the last 5 words to the pledge of allegiance? They're "liberty and justice for all." Remember that "all" means everyone, gay, straight, black or white. It doesn't matter. It's liberty for ALL.

Now, look at the scout oath. You aren't doing your duty to your country when you can't even uphold the pledge of allegiance. And that is just the tip of the iceberg.

Norman,

It is nice to hear from the posterboy of Homophobic, Religious based haters everywhere. And I say that with love and admiration that you have to courage to express your blind hatred over a venue where the consequences are autonomous and benign. That is for yourself, not for the ignorant people who read your hate and agree.I Wonder if you have any idea of how much courage it takes to grow up in a hateful environment where to let your "terrible secret"be known is to face the wrath of the true believers of God? Living in constant fear the people sitting next to you will se some tell tale sign that you are, in fact a Homosexual and DOOMED to burn in hell.

That is the origins of the hateful doctrines we hear preached on every Sunday by people so blinded that a person's life has little or no value to the believers. What is so obscenely ridiculous is the text that the current day believer are using is absolutely nothing of the original writings and text. The Old Testament is a vague misrepresented text of a culmination of the Roman's editing that lasted over a thousand Years.

You quote the book of Leviticus and do not know that it was the third book of HEBREW Laws written by Moses to control his tribes of Jews so he could march into Canaan with a sizable military force. You call Homosexuality an abomination, well look or better read the entire Bible to see how many other Abominations there were.

Faith blinded Hypocrites are the worst. You speak of homosexuals raising children, well I am here to inform and enlighten the willing ignorant.

I was a social worker and saw, first hand the fine heterosexual families that tragically abused and used their children and Grandchildren for sexual purposes. I also knew Homosexual couples who were raising children and were more moral than any so called Christians I have ever met. The reason I can say that, The love of the home with the homosexuals was void of the prejudice and blind hatred taught to Christian children.

That is what Religion is all about, blind faith. People like you call something an abomination because you read a verse from scripture and take it as verbatim truth, when the real truth is that there are so many contradictions and perversions of truth in the Bible that it should be classified as historical fiction with the author being the Roman Empire.

Abraham was the chosen of god, right and a wiser man never lived, right? Well he had an Army behind him to enforce his laws. When he went to his sacred altar he built to honor god with blood sacrifices, the results were that what ever he decreed as the laws of God were in fact enforced with the threat of death.

He began the hateful laws of God with his claim that God leveled Sodom and Gomorrah, when the truth is that he , himself destroyed the city states. His brother Lot took a liking to the lifestyle of the city and not following the herds of sheep across the known world as was the Hebrew custom at that time. Abraham decreed the sins and the consequences of breaking the laws of God and he used the destruction of those city states asa lesson for posterity in the written record HE WROTE.

It should be time to leave those hateful writings to history. The founders of our nation gave us protection against Religious tyranny, otherwise they would have written into law the establishment of a state church. Sometime what is not written is just as important as what is written.

Lazarus

Norman, thank you for stating it very plainly. You are correct in everything you said. The sad thing is that homosexuals refuse to hear. We were not created to find the same sex sexually attractive. Scientists would call homosexuality an anomaly, but you will never get a homosexual to agree. God Bless You for your statement.

Norman, no matter what you say about your beliefs, you're drawing a pointless line between two groups of people, or should I say God is drawing one, because you havent shown me that a word you said is ur own. You don't have to be Christian to believe in a god, nor be part of an LGBT club to believe in equality. I'm certainly not a part of the gay pride parade, because i'm not that special, but I do know I'm gay, proud, and normal, which is how I and anyone like me should be treated. If anyone's posessed by a demonic entity it's you, and that entity is God

This post makes me want to vomit - on you.

Homosexuality is an Anomaly...Look it up if you are too stupid to know the meaning. Maybe you won't want to as you will find you have no way to argue it.

Anomaly? Gays and lesbians have been around since, well, forever. The only thing now is that we are more vocal, and sick of being treated like 2nd class citizens.

The thought process of some people just amazes me.

Homosexuality is an Anomaly...Look it up if you are too stupid to know the meaning.

Obviously you are too stupid, or willfully ignorant, to look up actual facts regarding homosexuality!

Maybe you won't want to as you will find you have no way to argue it.

Biologists and the APA already have, and you're wrong!

pastor65 -- finally someone who states exactly how I feel. There are a lot of atheists on this board. I'm so glad my children are Christians, and are raising my grandchildren to be Christians.

Excuse me pastor.....tell me the story about how Jesus told the prostitute: "You disgust me wh0re! Get out of my sight!"

Oh wait, he didn't. Jesus accepted everyone.

Maybe you think you are better than Jesus?

Perhaps YOU with all your wisdom and knowledge of God, know something Jesus himself didn't know?

I would be very interested in hearing your reply.

When you meet your maker, have fun explaining your decision to be a hate mongering, holier than thou, cast the 1st stone, fool to Him.

You act as if you are upset about people being non believers or scoffing at your religion, but let me tell you something, YOU are the reason Christianity is dying. You and your kind are no longer spreading Gods love, or Gods word. You are spreading your own demented agenda while seeing how many bucks you can stuff in your pocket.

Make no mistake, it is you that is the true wh0re of Babylon. It is you who are detestable in the eyes of the Lord, you who spread your filth, while masquerading as Gods messenger. There is a special place in Hell for people like you.

jashn, you are a fool. Jesus loved the sinner but hated the sin. Take a minute or a few hours and find in the bible where God or Jesus said that homosexuality is fine with them, and that the practicing homosexual will enter into heaven... What a stooge. Homosexuality is an anomaly. If the whole world was homosexual it would die off in a short period of time. You are 3% of the population...Deal with it...

And Jesus told the woman at the well she'd been married numerous times and to sin no more.

Disparity, I am .00000000000000001% of the population. I am me, however, I am not gay, if that's what you were implying. I know you bigots all think that everyone that doesn't hate gays with a vengence must therefore be gay themselves. That is the kind of thinking that makes your kind a dying breed.

Bob-796276....for you, read this and understand it's meaning:

Luke 7:36-50.

36 Then one of the Pharisees asked Him to eat with him. And He went to the Pharisee’s house, and sat down to eat. 37 And behold, a woman in the city who was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at the table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of fragrant oil, 38 and stood at His feet behind Him weeping; and she began to wash His feet with her tears, and wiped them with the hair of her head; and she kissed His feet and anointed them with the fragrant oil. 39 Now when the Pharisee who had invited Him saw this, he spoke to himself, saying, “This Man, if He were a prophet, would know who and what manner of woman this is who is touching Him, for she is a sinner.”

40 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.”

So he said, “Teacher, say it.”

41 “There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?”

43 Simon answered and said, “I suppose the one whom he forgave more.”

And He said to him, “You have rightly judged.” 44 Then He turned to the woman and said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave Me no water for My feet, but she has washed My feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. 45 You gave Me no kiss, but this woman has not ceased to kiss My feet since the time I came in. 46 You did not anoint My head with oil, but this woman has anointed My feet with fragrant oil. 47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little.”

48 Then He said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.”

49 And those who sat at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this who even forgives sins?”

50 Then He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you. Go in peace.”

LMAO, a pastor? Aren't you supposed to be teaching love and non-judgement?

Here's some food for thought:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

however I am sure they will.

That would be a good thing: non-discrimination.

no matter what this perverted crowd is leading people to believe. Homosexuality is repulsive, abnormal, and yes...a perverted...besides the fact it is an abomination, and will never be acceptable by God.

And some of the crowd here couldn't care what you believe!

It doesn't matter whether one beleives in God or not, he is still true.

That's nice. prove it! or are you just touting your belief?

It doesn't matter what the lying pundits say about our country and it's founding fathers.

Oh, do tell me about our country and its Founding Fathers! I'd love to hear it.

I could care less what the supreme court has to say about homosexuality. I will follow God's law, and not man's.

And we couldn't care less about what you have to say, or your ignorance and bigotry Pastor! your god doesn't make or have say in our laws!

I'm so glad my children are Christians, and are raising my grandchildren to be Christians.

And ignorance and bigotry continues to perpetuate itself!

Homosexuality is an anomaly.

Biologists and the APA disagree with you!

If the whole world was homosexual it would die off in a short period of time.

It's hilarious when homophobes use that tired, old absurd argument.

You are 3% of the population...Deal with it...

And that 3% (actually, it's closer to 4-10%) has the exact same rights under the law as you do. Not to mention the majority doesn't rule over the minority. That fact must stick you in the side like a thorn, eh?

Aren't you supposed to be teaching love and non-judgement?

That's not what his god is about. His god is a hateful, vengeful ogre of a deity, who happens to hate all the same people he does. Funny how that works.

MJ1986

LMAO, a pastor? Aren't you supposed to be teaching love and non-judgement?

Here's some food for thought:

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possessslaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighbouringnations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but notCanadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"Matthew 5:17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come, I did not come to abolish the laws of Moses or writings of the prophets, I came to fulfill them. Iassure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest of God's laws will remain UNTIL IT'S PURPOSE IS ACHIEVED.
Is slavery and it's purpose achieved you ask, talk to God.========================================================

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery,as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be afair price for her?+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"Matthew 5:17 "Don't misunderstand why I have come, I did not come to abolish the laws of Moses or writings of the prophets, I came to fulfill them. Iassure you, until heaven and earth disappear, even the smallest of God's laws will remain UNTIL IT'S PURPOSE IS ACHIEVED.
Is slavery and it's purpose achieved you ask, talk to God.========================================================

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with awoman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24.The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"Ceremonial Law, as opposed to Civil Law, Study Matt. Chapter 5 and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice,I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, myneighbours. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"More Ceremonial Law, as opposed to Civil Law, Study Matt. Chapter 5 and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

5. I have a neighbour who insists on working onthe Sabbath.Exodus 35:2. Clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morallyobligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Neither yourself or the Police need worry, God will take care of the sinner as "ALL SIN IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH" Now "READ THE BIBLE" and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eatingshellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination thanhomosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' ofabomination?++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++God needed to separate Jews for the Gentiles in the old testament, and shrimp being bottom feeders and full of junk he forbid the Jews as that is what theold testament referred to before the coming of Christ.
Read Matt 15:10 and in Mark and others:"Listen to what I say and try to understand, you are not defiled by what you eat, but by what you say and do, what defiles YOU is your evil heart andthoughts, you know murder, adultery, "OTHER SEXUAL IMMORALITY", etc.================================================================

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach thealtar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wearreading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle- roomhere?+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"More Ceremonial Law, as opposed to Civil Law, Study Matt. Chapter 5 and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed,including the hair around their temples, even though this is expresslyforbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++God didn't want his people resembling other PAGAN nations of the time thus the reason for this passage.
I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"More Ceremonial Law, as opposed to Civil Law, Study Matt. Chapter 5 and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skinof a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Pigs have no or very little sweat glands at all, thus everything they eat is stored in them for good, thus the reason, and yes you may play football provided they workout the current labor strife their having
I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"More Ceremonial Law, as opposed to Civil Law, Study Matt. Chapter 5 and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 byplanting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearinggarments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend).++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++come on I don't have to explain Pollination to you do I?those mixed fabrics did not breathe right and everyone was breaking out in rashes.
I may remind you of the "SERMON ON THE MOUNT"More Ceremonial Law, as opposed to Civil Law, Study Matt. Chapter 5 and "PRAISE GOD!"========================================================

Healso tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go toall the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them?Lev.24:10-16.Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair,like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++yeah, all sin is bad because "ALL SIN IS PUNISHABLE BY DEATH" Now "READ THE BIBLE" and "PRAISE GOD!"remember God made these rules, take it up with him.========================================================

The Gay Manifesto

Michael Swift
First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987

(From the Congressional Record, with preface restored [restored preface in blue])

This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor.

We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us.

Women, you cry for freedom. You say you are no longer satisfied with men; they make you unhappy. We, connoisseurs of the masculine face, the masculine physique, shall take your men from you then. We will amuse them; we will instruct them; we will embrace them when they weep. Women, you say you wish to live with each other instead of with men. Then go and be with each other. We shall give your men pleasures they have never known because we are foremost men too, and only one man knows how to truly please another man; only one man can understand the depth and feeling, the mind and body of another man.

All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men.

All homosexuals must stand together as brothers; we must be united artistically, philosophically, socially, politically and financially. We will triumph only when we present a common face to the vicious heterosexual enemy.

If you dare to cry faggot, fairy, queer, at us, we will stab you in your cowardly hearts and defile your dead, puny bodies.

We shall write poems of the love between men; we shall stage plays in which man openly caresses man; we shall make films about the love between heroic men which will replace the cheap, superficial, sentimental, insipid, juvenile, heterosexual infatuations presently dominating your cinema screens. We shall sculpt statues of beautiful young men, of bold athletes which will be placed in your parks, your squares, your plazas. The museums of the world will be filled only with paintings of graceful, naked lads.

Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable and de rigueur, and we will succeed because we are adept at setting styles. We will eliminate heterosexual liaisons through usage of the devices of wit and ridicule, devices which we are skilled in employing.

We will unmask the powerful homosexuals who masquerade as heterosexuals. You will be shocked and frightened when you find that your presidents and their sons, your industrialists, your senators, your mayors, your generals, your athletes, your film stars, your television personalities, your civic leaders, your priests are not the safe, familiar, bourgeois, heterosexual figures you assumed them to be. We are everywhere; we have infiltrated your ranks. Be careful when you speak of homosexuals because we are always among you; we may be sitting across the desk from you; we may be sleeping in the same bed with you.

There will be no compromises. We are not middle-class weaklings. Highly intelligent, we are the natural aristocrats of the human race, and steely-minded aristocrats never settle for less. Those who oppose us will be exiled.

We shall raise vast private armies, as Mishima did, to defeat you. We shall conquer the world because warriors inspired by and banded together by homosexual love and honor are invincible as were the ancient Greek soldiers.

The family unit-spawning ground of lies, betrayals, mediocrity, hypocrisy and violence--will be abolished. The family unit, which only dampens imagination and curbs free will, must be eliminated. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory. They will be bonded together in communal setting, under the control and instruction of homosexual savants.

All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. We adhere to a cult of beauty, moral and esthetic. All that is ugly and vulgar and banal will be annihilated. Since we are alienated from middle-class heterosexual conventions, we are free to live our lives according to the dictates of the pure imagination. For us too much is not enough.

The exquisite society to emerge will be governed by an elite comprised of gay poets. One of the major requirements for a position of power in the new society of homoeroticism will be indulgence in the Greek passion. Any man contaminated with heterosexual lust will be automatically barred from a position of influence. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men.

We shall rewrite history, history filled and debased with your heterosexual lies and distortions. We shall portray the homosexuality of the great leaders and thinkers who have shaped the world. We will demonstrate that homosexuality and intelligence and imagination are inextricably linked, and that homosexuality is a requirement for true nobility, true beauty in a man.

We shall be victorious because we are fueled with the ferocious bitterness of the oppressed who have been forced to play seemingly bit parts in your dumb, heterosexual shows throughout the ages. We too are capable of firing guns and manning the barricades of the ultimate revolution.

Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks

I see you subscribe to the agnostic/atheist/anti-christian debate sites for your dull, old cut and pastes, that have been debunked numerous times on these forums. After a while one would think you would get it, but I guess the fact of the matter is that you can't.

Jesus did NOT accept everyone. He accepted all who came to him, who believed, and CHANGED their evil ways. You fail to remember the adulterous woman, who was told to go and SIN NO MORE. I am sure the money changers were feeling the love when Jesus whipped them out of the temple. The rich young ruler went away very sorrowful when Jesus did not accept his idea of righteousness.

You really are messed up....Pastor's like myself that preach against sin are not "raking" in the bucks or getting crowds. It is not popular. The ones raking in the bucks are the ones that preach only love, and no judgement. That anything goes, and people can do whatever they want, and still get to heaven. This is simply not the truth.

Please stop embarrassing yourselves by quoting scriptures that you lack the spiritual insight to understand. You look foolish.

You really are messed up....

That's hilarious coming from you! Talk about your pot meeting the kettle!

ya, prolly takes more balls than you've ever had

I'm guessing it's almost as easy as you letting all of us know how stupid you are with your comment tony.

how can a straight even have enough nerve to let anybody know they are straight. that's disgusting

I guess your argument could work for all white restaurants, busses, country clubs, etc. When hatred and bigotry is allowed to exist no man is free.

Your right tapado, keep your pushy opinions to to yourself!! Last I heard Boy Scouts were about teaching young men to be men, not about exposing boys to sexual orgies!! If that is what the boy scouts are really about teaching boys about sex, then I think a lot of parents will take their boys OUT of boy scouts. Tell me, what about sex did YOUR scout leader teach you? Did he hire prostitutes to come in and give your boys a "ride"? I thought boy scouts were about teaching young men leadership skills, and life skills, isn't that something every boy needs whether straight or gay?

It is people like you who want to turn the Scouts into something dirty and perverted who want only young straight boys to do God knows what perverted things you would have them do. Is there a badge for masturbation to a playboy centerfold? Why would you ONLY allow straight boys what is it that your doing at those meetings that someones sexual orientation would matter?

Keep your private lives to yourselves!

I'm not gay but I do hate discrimination, so to be fair and hold to your statement then straight people shouldn't show any signs of affection in public.

I say let each Troop or Council choose, if you don't like the call your troop makes move to one that suits you and yours. Even now some BSA troops are run by Christian churches but others are run visa schools and or other religions such as Baha'i, so I don't see the big deal. Other than to keep bigotry alive.

The one thing that the articles on this have failed to mention is that several major companies have recently pulled sponsorship, to the tune of millions, from the BSA over this issue. Add to that the fact that there are calls to deny them the use of some public lands and it becomes apparent why this call is being looked at, not because it is the "right" thing to do but it is hitting old pocketbook.

Dear blueingoregon (blue in the groin),

You are obviously one of those pushy bastards that I'm not backing down from. If you knew what your dick was for you would probably understand my position!

Jack, when will homosexuals stop trying to force everyone to like what they do??? Last time I checked I don't have to accept something I don't approve of... Maybe you should all just shut up and live your lives...You want to sodomize each other in the privacy of your own home, that is your choice. Just stop telling everyone else that they should "accept" it and applaud your efforts. Homosexuality is an Anomaly. Ask any qualified scientist, he will tell you how illogical homosexuality is for the survival of the species... Go away, we don't all have to approve of your strange behavior.

who cares about a club that discriminate. I don't. Even if they did change there policy, it still doesnt change the fact that they did what they did. So why not just start a new Scout that will accept everyone. A club that discriminate does not deserve anyone's time or effort.

Morally straight equals virtuous equals not gay. Start your own gay rights club and stop invading us. We do not need gays in our tents with our young boys. Outrageous and rediculous.

Disparity I agree with you 100% Sodomy (/ˈsɒdəmi/) is any non-penile/vaginal copulation-like act, such as oral or anal sex, or sex between a person and an animal

non-penile/vaginal copulation-like act, I don't know where you got your information but it is 100% wrong!

sodomy
 

sod·om·y

[sod-uh-mee] Show IPA

noun
1.
anal or oral copulation with a member of the opposite sex.

2.
copulation with a member of the same sex.

3.
bestiality ( def 4 ) .

sorry jack but homosexuals dont dictate to me how to raise my children and what to teach them is right and wrong