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Subscribe to RSSA coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth asked the national organization on Monday to hold off on determining whether to end the controversial policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, saying it was concerned about the executives’ fast pace on a decision that can’t be “undone.”
The Boy Scouts of America's announcement last week that it may eliminate the exclusion of gays from membership at the national level, leaving the decision to its local units, has led to some soul-searching and a lot of questions among Scouting families and their chartering organizations. Some families have indicated they may leave if the ban is lifted, but many have welcomed a change they feel was long overdue.
The Scouts' began National Executive Board and Committee meetings on Monday, and a decision on the gay ban is expected Wednesday.
The coalition of 33 Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth, or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts, has “united to express our concern about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council. “… we request that a final vote on this policy reversal be delayed to allow other stakeholder’s voices to be heard and a more thorough analysis of the impact on local councils.”
The decision comes just seven months after the organization said it was sticking with the policy following a confidential two-year review of the disputed membership guidelines. That review was announced months after Jennifer Tyrrell was dismissed from her post as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den because she is a lesbian, and a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.
Both cases made national headlines for several weeks, roiling the private youth organization. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue.
Tom Pennington / Getty Images
Will Oliver, an Eagle Scout, Greg Bourke, a former Assistant Scoutmaster, Jennifer Tyrrell, a former Cub Scout den mother, and Eric Andresen, a former Scout leader, deliver boxes containing 1.4 million signatures urging the Boy Scouts of America to reverse the organization's ban on gay Scouts on February 4, 2013 in Irving, Texas.
The coalition, though, said: “While we understand the urge to support those councils who feel that the current policies negatively impact their ability to remain viable we also think that equal support and consideration should be given to those councils whose ability to remain viable will be impacted by adopting the new policy.”
It said the proposed policy “flies in direct contradiction” to the results of the two-year review and noted: “Time must be allowed for accurate polling data to be collected from stakeholders at all levels and all areas in an unbiased way. The voices of existing chartered partners and financial contributors must be heard alongside those of our volunteer leaders and the parents who entrust their children to us. This is a decision which cannot be ‘undone.’”
'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays
The Great Salt Lake Council also said that it explicitly opposed any changes to the current membership policy without open discussion and deliberation with the various individuals who make up the organization.
When asked for comment about the positions of the coalition and the Great Salt Lake Council, BSA spokesman Deron Smith said in an email: “We recognize, deeply respect and appreciate the sincere beliefs about this issue.”
Advocates on both sides of the issue have stepped up their campaigns ahead of the BSA's final decision: They’ve encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge, a conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.
Tyrrell, of Bridgeport, Ohio, and Ryan Andresen’s father were among a group that delivered petitions to the Boy Scouts' headquarters in Texas on Monday bearing more than one million signatures calling for an end to the policy.
“It’s crucial because they are in the middle of making this potentially historical decision,” Tyrrell, 33, a mother of four children, told NBC News after delivering four boxes filled with the petitions and additional comments to a Boy Scouts' representative. The group had heard the organization has been receiving “a lot of negative feedback” from religious groups and wanted to provide the petitions so the BSA could see that “there are many people that support this and want this.”
“There are 1.4 million Americans that have signed petitions supporting the change in BSA policy,” said Andresen, 52, of Moraga, Calif. “That’s quite a statement. … that’s a lot of people supporting change.”
Tyrrell and other advocates have previously delivered some of the petitions, which Smith said the BSA had accepted, too. “The BSA has received a great deal of feedback from a variety of viewpoints and we appreciate everyone sharing their perspective on this issue,” he wrote.
After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban
Andresen’s son, Ryan, 18, is still hoping he will receive Scouting’s highest ranking, the Eagle award, though the journey has done a lot of damage to him emotionally, said Eric Andresen, who resigned as the committee chair of his son’s troop after the problems began. One of the family’s main objectives was to help others, such as boys who may still be hiding in the closet.
“I’m hoping that the board continues to do what’s right and deliberate this week and make the decision that we hope they’re going to make,” he said. “If they don’t, we’ll be back.”
Related stories:
- Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
- Eagle Scouts return badges to protest policy banning gays
- Boy Scouts: We're keeping policy banning gays
If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the possibility of a change in the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.
Leave a Comment:
Sick sick individuals. There is nothing right or normal about homosexuals and this is a classic case the squeaky wheel getting the grease. Why does the whole rest of the world need to dance to their deviate drummer?
No one is forcing you to be gay, but why should a child at 5 when they join the cub scouts be asked to decide?
I would just like athiests to know not to read this as this is offensive to them.
I would also like to say that this applies to all believers not just gays. To support that which God says is wrong, is to call God a liar.
I am not a homophobe. I do not hate gays and I do think they should have some
rights. Be gay, be a couple, call it marriage if you like. I don't care. But
I will not have anything to do with your wedding. I am also against things like
gay adoption.
To those who consider themselves to be both gay and Christian, and also to
those who support gay rights in the church, I have this to say. You know very
well that God uses the word "detestible" to describe homosexuality. I also have
this to say, "I am not your enemy." Your enemy is the friend who tells you ,"Be
proud that you are gay." He wants you to be proud of something shameful and
sinful. He will take you down the wide road with him. You will laugh all along
the way. When you get to the edge of the cliff at the end of the road, like
lemmings you will all jump into the black abyss.
Homosexual Christian, repentance is admitting you are wrong, giving a sincere
apology and making an effort to change yourself. If you do not admit that being
gay is wrong then how can you repent of it. If you tell people to be proud that
you are gay, how can they repent of it. If you do this you are calling God a
liar just like the devil did and does.
I have this to say about homosexual weddings in the church. A Christian
marriage is holy and it is between a man and a woman. A Gay wedding is unholy
and an abomination if done in the church. Churches that support gay marriage in
the church are an abomination and people should flee from them. Gay priests are
an abomination. I would imagine gay priests that get married in a gay wedding
would make God want to vomit and this is going on.
Gay men and gay supporters in the church, repent. Are you a lemming or do you
admit it when you are wrong? Jesus wants sincerity and that takes admitting when
you are wrong. In the book of Romans, God gives the homosexuals a disease. God
does not like homosexuality. The Bible also says clearly in the New Testament
that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who tell you to be
proud that you are gay are your enemy. If you do not admit that what you are
doing and the activity that you support is wrong, there is no repentance. Didn't
Jesus say "repent." Which is love? That which supports things that are evil or
that which supports righteous actions. You decide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
nearly 34,000 types of Christianity how arrogant and elitist of you to assume to speak for all of them. Don't use my God of love to spout your hate. You are not better then the Muslim extremists who hijack the Muslim faith for hate
Michael Mellnick---I see that you were not told what was right or wrong as a child. How about what was normal or abnormal or something being normal or queer. I'm sorry for you and the way your parents didn't take the time to teach you these things. By the way the majority of the people in this country think that a marriage between a man and a woman is normal and not anything queer about it. History has taught us that a marriage between a man and a woman has always been the way. Should we reverse all of history to satisfy the few. You must be freaking crazy!!
I just read through the 9 posts you wrote in this thread and almost all of them contain the declaration "I'm not a homophobe, but...". Why are you so concerned about not appearing homophobic when you obviously are? You clearly have fear and/or hate in your heart toward the gay community and have no problem spending half of the day writing about it online. And yet you hide behind this bull@!$%# preface because you know what your saying is hurtful and unnecessary.
Don't want your kids interacting with gay people? Pull them out of the Scouts. No one will miss you. The program will be a better place without you in it...
Yeah my parents taught me that treating anyone as less then you is not only wrong but a sin. So is passing judgement on someone else, but apparently your parents did not teach you that one. Here is another one the vast majority know when you assume you just make an *** out of yourself, as you have assumed to know me or how i was raised.
When did marriage become the discussion here? But since you brought it up, apparently you do not know the Bible that well. I suggest you try reading it before you start discussing it.
Most men in the O.T. had multiple wives and or concubines.
I am sorry for you smokie that your parents raised you to be judgmental, make assumptions about people based on almost nothing, and to just run your mouth without facts.
Why are those who shout for tolerance so often the most intolerant of them all??? You Pro-Homosexuality folks so often talk about others needing to be tolerant...but you can't be tolerant of another group having their own beliefs and policies. The BSA is a PRIVATE Organization, who has had a clear position on homosexuality since its inception. I was in scouting as a Cub Scout, Webelos, and up to the Life Rank of Boy Scouts, and there was wide variety of skills that we learned...and there was no need or place for people's bedroom preferences to be included. There's no mystery or secrecy behind the BSA's policy, so if you don't like it...then be TOLERANT of the BSA's choice, leave them alone, and start your own group---The GAY SCOUTS of AMERICA!!! Really, what's so hard about that?!? For the Sake of those who want to have options for their youth---PLEASE HOLD STRONG BSA!!!
So you were clear on your sexuality when you joined the cub scouts? Why should a child that has committed years to the organization be kicked out a shunned because of your intolerance.
I'll guarantee you that an normal 8 year old boy know exactly what gender he is, unless you mean to say "wait, let me have a shot at him and see if I can sufficiently twist his mind before it's too late"
Gay people know what gender they are, they just like people of the same sex, otherwise they would go get surgery and change sexes. And at 8 no child should be considering who they want to have sex with, that is far from normal.
As for your
Comment i pray that you meant that as an insult toward me, which although childish, is far less concerning then you even having that thought.
I never mentioned anything about anybody have sex with anyone. That's where your mind went. As far as the second part of your comment, I have no idea what the heck your even trying to say. I replied to a post that insinuated that at a young age a child is still confused and pliable enough to be swayed as to their sexual orientation, similar to the way he / she might be trying to deciding whether to be a fireman or a baseball player / veterinarian or a princess when they grow up.
I do not think any adult without a child in the program should be aloud to volunteer, nor do I think a gay parent with a child in the program should be excluded. This approach should take care of most of the problems.
wow, Paul. Get a clue.
Leaves more room for the straight scoutmasters who are also pedophiles, right Paul L? Oh wait, the Boy Scouts organization don;t want anyone to know about sexual abuse by its straight soutmasters.
I am very disapointed. Just because I am not a practicing homosexual molester, the homo side have collapsed my entries.
Anyhow my two boys are out now so the "GAY SCOUTS" can go full on and demolish what respect and safety for children it had in the past in this previous wonderful association. RIP
You wont get the chance to molester my kids you fags.
Hopefully they can keep molestering each other... that oughta hold 'em for a while
It's interesting that they argue to not make a hasty decision because "you can't go back" once you do. Is that because you can't go back against the slow arc of history of greater equality and justice?
lol, yeah I noticed that too!
Sinners! Why can't everyone just be as holy as me?!
This is the warning to the atheists, do not read if you do not want to be offended.
The beginning of all Christian repentance is the admission of guilt.
I am not a homophobe. I do not hate gays and I do think they should have some
rights. Be gay, be a couple, call it marriage if you like. I don't care. But
I will not have anything to do with your wedding. I am also against things like
gay adoption.
To those who consider themselves to be both gay and Christian, and also to
those who support gay rights in the church, I have this to say. You know very
well that God uses the word "detestible" to describe homosexuality. I also have
this to say, "I am not your enemy." Your enemy is the friend who tells you ,"Be
proud that you are gay." He wants you to be proud of something shameful and
sinful. He will take you down the wide road with him. You will laugh all along
the way. When you get to the edge of the cliff at the end of the road, like
lemmings you will all jump into the black abyss.
Homosexual Christian, repentance is admitting you are wrong, giving a sincere
apology and making an effort to change yourself. If you do not admit that being
gay is wrong then how can you repent of it. If you tell people to be proud that
you are gay, how can they repent of it. If you do this you are calling God a
liar just like the devil did and does.
I have this to say about homosexual weddings in the church. A Christian
marriage is holy and it is between a man and a woman. A Gay wedding is unholy
and an abomination if done in the church. Churches that support gay marriage in
the church are an abomination and people should flee from them. Gay priests are
an abomination. I would imagine gay priests that get married in a gay wedding
would make God want to vomit and this is going on.
Gay men and gay supporters in the church, repent. Are you a lemming or do you
admit it when you are wrong? Jesus wants sincerity and that takes admitting when
you are wrong. In the book of Romans, God gives the homosexuals a disease. God
does not like homosexuality. The Bible also says clearly in the New Testament
that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who tell you to be
proud that you are gay are your enemy. If you do not admit that what you are
doing and the activity that you support is wrong, there is no repentance. Didn't
Jesus say "repent." Which is love? That which supports things that are evil or
that which supports righteous actions. You decide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are you trying to convince yourself? I can guarantee when you repost something more then once on a page that long most wont even read it.
Face it, Boy Scouts of America will be damned regardless of their decision. Not a win-win for them. Sad!
So true! :(
I remember the days sitting on Little league boards. It was more about the adults then it was their children.
I hated Little League. It was a lot more fun going down to the field and just playing a half-assed ballgame with whatever kids were hanging around there. But, different strokes.
This clear agenda from homosexuals to get everyone leave their moral foundation and bend to their desires to accomodate them in every institution is despicable. Your argument is that it is biological, but it is really a matter of feeding your desires (biological or not). And it is that very thing that leads to the decay of societies.
Gay People, and Gay supportive folks: Just because a person desires someone from the same gender, doesn't mean they should feed that desire. The same way a married man shouldn't have sex with another woman, just because he has that desire--he shouldn't feed it; nor should one who wants to steal, feed his desire to steal.(You could say the examples i mentioned are all biological desires innate in every human being--to seek pleasure & avoid pain). What is important is to get in line with MORAL RULES, or else what should go is whatever one desires....which is obvious societal decay!!
If you take issue with certain citizens taking issue with homosexuality in general, then you must understand that our position has a legitimate basis. You have some who try to pervert the texts of religious scriptures to say that Gayism is permissible, but clearly when an entire nation was destroyed (Sodom) for no other reason than it's Homosexuality, then that is a lesson for all nations thereafter. And so now, just because you have homosexuality growing in popularity, that doesn't mean that it's now correct and/or legitimate. By this reasoning, if in 30-70 years from now, if the practice of Man-Boy relationships became popular, then you would expect for us to be in agreement with it, tolerate it, and accomodate it. You would say..."well the young boys and their parents are consenting to the Man/Boy relationship, so what's wrong with it...." Yeah, today you would find such a position repulsive...but 70 years from now, if it were to become popular!! Then what?? You realize that societies such as this existed in the past, like in Ancient Greek times. Today you would condemn the likes of Jerry Sandusky, but you would change your position 70 years from now, saying we're being bigots...citing the rationale that we have to be open, tolerant, and accepting of such beliefs, because they have popularity, no matter how immoral and sick they are.
They prefer to call it Gaiety
Next they will want to admit Muslims to a Christian organization........bloody infidels
City or Sodom not nation, if your going to cite the bible at least get it right. And no the agenda is not to ostracize children, that join well before they have any idea and build their lives around this organization.
Even if you feel they are sinning, which according to the bible since they are not married even heterosexual children would be. By just tossing them by the wayside, you might compromise their relationship with God forever, and by your own belief damn them to hell for all eternity. So if you are such a good Christian maybe you should do as the bible says, get over your icky feelings, and reach out to these children.
I was a boy scout during my youth and now I hear that they are changing to allow gays. Now for the youth being gay so what. But as for their leaders don't think so, if the policy changes then my kids are never joining bad enough the catholics rape little boys I am not letting my kids get the same treatment from pedofile pieces of garbage.
This makes me sick to see my home state of Utah being so grossly bigoted. Gay or not, they are just kids seeking to improve their life by serving their community- a community that doesn't even want them just because they are gay.
Sad and I just threw up a little. Utah....just... *facepalm* I'm ashamed.
Hey if you are an atheist do not read as this is offensive to you. Keep the ban, Keep the ban, Keep the ban!
The beginning of all Christian repentance is to admit you are wrong.
I am not a homophobe. I do not hate gays and I do think they should have some
rights. Be gay, be a couple, call it marriage if you like. I don't care. But
I will not have anything to do with your wedding. I am also against things like
gay adoption.
To those who consider themselves to be both gay and Christian, and also to
those who support gay rights in the church, I have this to say. You know very
well that God uses the word "detestible" to describe homosexuality. I also have
this to say, "I am not your enemy." Your enemy is the friend who tells you ,"Be
proud that you are gay." He wants you to be proud of something shameful and
sinful. He will take you down the wide road with him. You will laugh all along
the way. When you get to the edge of the cliff at the end of the road, like
lemmings you will all jump into the black abyss.
Homosexual Christian, repentance is admitting you are wrong, giving a sincere
apology and making an effort to change yourself. If you do not admit that being
gay is wrong then how can you repent of it. If you tell people to be proud that
you are gay, how can they repent of it. If you do this you are calling God a
liar just like the devil did and does.
I have this to say about homosexual weddings in the church. A Christian
marriage is holy and it is between a man and a woman. A Gay wedding is unholy
and an abomination if done in the church. Churches that support gay marriage in
the church are an abomination and people should flee from them. Gay priests are
an abomination. I would imagine gay priests that get married in a gay wedding
would make God want to vomit and this is going on.
Gay men and gay supporters in the church, repent. Are you a lemming or do you
admit it when you are wrong? Jesus wants sincerity and that takes admitting when
you are wrong. In the book of Romans, God gives the homosexuals a disease. God
does not like homosexuality. The Bible also says clearly in the New Testament
that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who tell you to be
proud that you are gay are your enemy. If you do not admit that what you are
doing and the activity that you support is wrong, there is no repentance. Didn't
Jesus say "repent." Which is love? That which supports things that are evil or
that which supports righteous actions. You decide.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
nearly 34,000 types of Christianity how arrogant and elitist of you to assume to speak for all of them. Don't use my God of love to spout your hate. You are not better then the Muslim extremists who hijack the Muslim faith for hate
If there are so many people that want gays or different people that want to be involved in the Boy Scouts so badly let them start their own "Gay Scouts of America" and compete for survival as the Boy Scouts have done since their start. Start your own group and leave the rest to be untarnished, by a minority in this country. We have seen to much of that already.
BTW Obama should have never been given a chance to spread his continuous queer way of looking at the world through his eyes. His time would have been better served in deep thought of how he plans to lead this country out of this jobless, homeless, future-less economy and not about what he thinks the "Boy Scouts of America" should be doing.
Yeah that will go over well. Mr president what do you think of such and such? " I am sorry i cannot comment I am contemplating how to fix the economy" 5 minutes later FOX breaking news "President is an idiot and can't think about 2 things at once"
And when a child joins the cub scouts the furthest thing from their mind is sexual orientation or anything sexual.
I am a conservative and recently found out my youngest son was gay. It was a struggle for me to accept this at first but I've gotten over it.
My opinion is that he should be allowed to do whatever anyone else can do. If he was young enough to be a scout, then he should be able to be a scout. If he wanted to be an adult leader scout leader then he should be able to. However, his sexual lifestyle should never be an issue--the scouts shouldn't ask him about it and he should not make it an issue. In the same manner, a heterosexual should not be asked about their sexual lifestyle and he should not make it an issue. The reason I say that is topics of a sexual nature shouldn't be part of scouting. Scouts shouldn't be taught or lectured on anything regarding sex. The only time I could see a scout being involved in this is if one of the scouts or a scout leader is teaching kids to discriminate against someone because of their sexual lifestyle. The leaders should never try to teach the scouts that gay and lesbians should not be allowed to become involved in scouting.
Folks who think the scouts and any othe folks/organizations/busineses who don't accept folks with a gay or lesbian lifestyle also need to practice what they preach. They carelessly through around phrases such as "ignorance of hate" or just "hate" or "homophobia" which doesn't help their cause. First, you make a baseless accusation about the folks when you call them homophobes which is an ignorance of something but "hate" is not the right word. A better choice would be that they are intolerant. It is predudicial to authomatically lump all folks who don't support gay and lesbians as "homophobes". By doing this, you make an assumption that all people who are not tolerant of gay and lesbian folks are hateful and by doing this, you are showing that you are prejudiced.
I was in the Air Force from 1979 through 2001. When folks that worked for me made comments about not allowing gay and lesbians to serve, I normally would tell them to tone it down as the issue would be solved at a level well above our rank. I also saw many people who didn't want women to serve in combat roles or those that didn't want women to be able to fly fighter aricraft or close air support aircraft like A-10s. I also told the folks against women serving in those roles to tone it down as it would be solved at a level above our rank.
Anyway, the whole point of this email was to try and tell advocates of letting gay or lesbian folks have equal rights should back off the hate rhetoric. You aren't winning over any adocates by insulting those who have different opinions from yours. If their are folks who truly hate gays or lesbians then it may be okay to make specific statements about them but don't jump to the conclusion that everyone who isn't tolerant of gays and lesbians are full of hate and ignorance.
I would also say that some gay and lesbian folks use their sexual lifesytle as a reason for being the victim of homophobes when it comes to denied promotions, pay raises, awards, etc. Some are too quick to say they are the vicitim of discrimination because of their lifestyle. Make sure that that is the case when you make that kind of accusation or claim about the person you believe is disciminating about you or someone else being gay or lesbian. Sometimes, people don't get raises, promotions, awards, etc, because they werer't worthy of it or someone else was more worthly of it. I can tell you that I am more concerned about a co-worker's or subordinate's performance and qualifications than I am for their sexual preference, race, religion, hair color, or whatever.
If it will take time for the scout leaders to come around, then don't throw gas on the fire by name-calling. You should approach it in a more mature manner.
For Ryan Andresen, the scout who was denied his Eagle merit badge, I think folks should support him financially so he can take the scouts to court. Let the courts decide. My hat goes off to him for his achievement.
Also, Jennifer Tyrrell should be suppot financially so she can take the scouts to court over her not being allowed to be a scouts leader. Again, let the courts decide. My hat also goes off for her for volunteering her time to be active in the scouts.
The courts may move a little more slowly than advocates of gay and lesbian rights might like it to move but the legal system and enforcement of laws against discrimination is the best way to ensure equal opportunity for these folks.
When I was in the Air Force in 1997-1998 as a lieutenant colonel, I got involved in a miserable job in the Pentagon. Even though I was married and had three kids, I announced to the Colonel I was working for that I was gay (I'm not gay) in front of at least 8 other officers (captains, majors, and lieutenant colonels). (So I was acting a little like Klinger from MASH.) The colonel just laughed at me. I also admitted to molesting people of various sorts (I have never molested anyone) but the colonel just laughed harder. He knew I didn't do any of these things but even if I had done them or if he had believed me, he would not have taken action because I did my job well and I would have been hard to replace.
I also think movies and TV shows can move things along if they approach sexual lifestyles as long as they don't alienate folks who are resisting the change by using inflammatory language. The folks in these industries that have come out will help as long as the nuts don't ruin it. For instance, folks like Rock Hudson, Elton John, Eddie Mercury, Andersen Cooper, Jodie Foster, and Jim Neighbors are some good examples where their professional achievements have made them successful and they are looked upon very favorable. On the other hand, some folks like Barney Frank, Ellen Degeneres, Rosanne Barr, Lady GaGa and a few others have had unfavorable impacts on the cause of gaining equal rights for Gay and Lesbian folks.
The military usually maintains performance report records and statistics on promotions and these should be monitored to make sure different races, religions, sexual preference (lifestyle) are getting promotions you would expect. In other words, check the stats to see if the ratio of promotes to number eligible isn't discriminating anyone based upon gender, religious preference, race, age, etc.
In summary, don't use words like hate, ignorance, or homophobe except where it is necessary and correct to use it--just say intolerant. Don't judge the folks that are members of groups like the scouts--don't say they are all bigots when it may be just one or two people who are not tolerant of Gay and Lesbian folks. Try not to discriminate against these folks in the previous sentence. Don't criticize churches of folks that are religious. Be careful about Gay and Lesbian folks always claiming that they are victims. Don't let the Gay and Lesbian folks use a denial of promotion, denial of a raise, etc., as a way to say that they weren't promoted due to their sexual lifestyle. I would also like to see every organization or business provide rationale in writing for not giving promotions, pay raises, etc., to folks deserving of promotion, raises, awards, etc. It might come in handy for legal action and back pay.
So this is a long post but we should approach change slowly to get it right
Hey atheist if you read this it is your own fault.
Keep the ban, keep the ban, keep the ban.
Jesus is a God of sincerity. To admit one's guilt is the beginning of repentance.
I am not a homophobe. I do not hate gays and I do think they should have some
rights. Be gay, be a couple, call it marriage if you like. I don't care. But
I will not have anything to do with your wedding. I am also against things like
gay adoption.
To those who consider themselves to be both gay and Christian, and also to
those who support gay rights in the church, I have this to say. You know very
well that God uses the word "detestible" to describe homosexuality. I also have
this to say, "I am not your enemy." Your enemy is the friend who tells you ,"Be
proud that you are gay." He wants you to be proud of something shameful and
sinful. He will take you down the wide road with him. You will laugh all along
the way. When you get to the edge of the cliff at the end of the road, like
lemmings you will all jump into the black abyss.
Homosexual Christian, repentance is admitting you are wrong, giving a sincere
apology and making an effort to change yourself. If you do not admit that being
gay is wrong then how can you repent of it. If you tell people to be proud that
you are gay, how can they repent of it. If you do this you are calling God a
liar just like the devil did and does.
I have this to say about homosexual weddings in the church. A Christian
marriage is holy and it is between a man and a woman. A Gay wedding is unholy
and an abomination if done in the church. Churches that support gay marriage in
the church are an abomination and people should flee from them. Gay priests are
an abomination. I would imagine gay priests that get married in a gay wedding
would make God want to vomit and this is going on.
Gay men and gay supporters in the church, repent. Are you a lemming or do you
admit it when you are wrong? Jesus wants sincerity and that takes admitting when
you are wrong. In the book of Romans, God gives the homosexuals a disease. God
does not like homosexuality. The Bible also says clearly in the New Testament
that homosexuals will not enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who tell you to be
proud that you are gay are your enemy. If you do not admit that what you are
doing and the activity that you support is wrong, there is no repentance. Didn't
Jesus say "repent." Which is love? That which supports things that are evil or
that which supports righteous actions. You decide.
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nearly 34,000 types of Christianity how arrogant and elitist of you to assume to speak for all of them.
Homosexuality is no different than someone who is an alcoholic. The suseptible gene is is imbedded, but it is up to the person to make a moral decision. Give in and your fate is sealed, fight it and be an inspiration to others. Don't give in and then take your "new found fantacy" and spread the disease to impressionable young children. Perversion will get you a smack down from those protecting their children, don't believe me? Just try it!
people only understand what they learn on their own.
Dont do it. Its not a matter of homophobia. Its a matter of people trying to change the policy of a long standing organization.
Trying to guilt them into it is b.s.
Guys that were born with no athletic skills cant belong to the MLB, MBA, or NFL. Why not? They cant help they were born that way.
People born with low I.Q's can't be doctors or lawyers or rocket scientists. Why not? They cant help they were born that way.
People born with inferior vocal cords wont ever be world reknowned singers. Why not? They cant help they were born that way.
What all those people in those categories have in common is that they will be excluded from something in life because they were born a certain way.
Gays were born a certain way and cant help it. They will be excluded from the Boys Scouts because they suck at being straight, just like some people suck at athletics, and singing, and being intelligent.
The gays need to move on just like every other group in life, instead of trying to force their ways on everyone because they cant have something their own way.
problem is when children join the cub scouts they have no idea. They spend years of hard work and commitment to the organization. Only to be kicked out and told they are not worthy by a group they built their life around at the most vulnerable part of their life. Sorry but I don't see how it is morally upstanding to treat any child like that.
Being Gay is immoral and not an acceptable moral act for scouts or anyone else but we are forced to accept gay's anyway there are a lot of immoral acts that are still not acceptable so why shouldn't just accept them all and move on as best we can
My bible does say the act of gay sex is immoral, so is sex out of wedlock. Will you start kicking scouts who have had sex with females as well? Do you ban men and women who are divorced as serving as scout leaders? That is also immoral according in the bible and in your lifetime was considered unacceptable. So lets be honest its not all immoral or unacceptable things that you want to get rid of just this one.
No one is asking you to be gay. Just accept all children regardless of who they like. I know sound just so despicable doesn't it.
To Mr. Magneto I understand that the kids want to serve their community and I believe that kids if they do turn gay yeah that is wrong and disgusting but if that is their choice then let them and if they earn a eagle badge then give it to them. However their policy restricting gays I still support because if they support it then that will just turn them like the catholic church where their leaders will have freedom to rape and molest the young boys that they are in charge of especially when they are on camping trips. Who will know except the kid unless he tells someone which is alot of cases they do not tell anybody. As for utah good job for you standing up for your beliefs if you look into history every culture and kingdom, country, etc.. When they go down the same road that america is going down now it always leads into that country falling. Rome did it, greece, everyone and we are next on the list. Yeah gays should not be shunned because of what they want but we should not be forced to accept it.
Gay does not mean they like children, I am strait but i do not like little girls. And the catholic church does not allow gay people to be priests.
Not openly anyway
Lostalaskan: If they "turn gay?? OMG, what ancient Rock of Stupidness did you crawl out from under?
Agreed. Especially because "what they want" is to be to be accepted for who they are, just as you might like to be "accepted" for your height or eye color.
Gays are not some weirdo cult members. But I have this feeling that you're one of those who don't realize that you're surrounded by "normal friends" who are actually, wait for it... gay OMG. Have you ever gone to a neighborhood store or dry cleaner? Had your hair cut? Bought a donut? Open your eyes, oh "lost" one.
ya they have only had a hundred years to think through this
40+ years after Stonewall... Oh yeah, people are really rushing this thing.
Who cares.
I think we should abolish all the laws governing everything and just let us all do as we damn well please and the let the ones with the strongest will to survive carry on that way there wont be any bull— — _t in between may the best gays murderers and wrong doers survive and perhaps mankind will do itself a favor by becoming near extinct
As the mother of three Eagle scouts, I asked myself and my sons that question, and the answer is no, I would not want my son tenting with a homosexual and they would not want to tent with homosexuals. Not because we are anti gay, but because it would be uncomfortable for other them. Boys go to scout camp to escape sexual situations and bond with their friends. Having homosexuals in camp would ruin the whole manly experience. No boy I know wants to go to scout camp and see fellow scouts ogling each other, holding hands and cuddling in the tent. That would be like going camping with your friends and one of them brings his girl friend. Awkward! And whether the gay activists want to admit or not, the risk for sexual molestation will increase if gays are openly admitted into the program.
people only understand what they learn on their own.
i think it has more to how you raised your children. So don't throw your boys into the mix of fu@ked up thinking ok. Why do you think its all about a piece of ass or wanting to get some? Sexuality has more to being about person's whole has a human being then fu@king
I certainly hope how I raised my kids has something to do with it!
Leave it to the Utahns to says "hold off on it" while the mormons gather all the money they can to buy people off and push their ideals into it, just like they did with prop 8.
if we can keep getting these religious idiots going off events they will eventually end up broke - morally and financially
Don't count on that Eric, the LDS church/Mormons are most likely the biggest private donor to the program.They donate millions of dollars to the program every year. They do not need the BSA program. They already have their own version of the scouting program ready to be implemented if the BSA program changes. They will not break morally or financially over this issue.