@ WinWin...I actually thought of that as well...But I also thought that if maybe he saw and felt that the both of them were getting extremely tired for no reason, he just might think something is up, and harm the child before he passed out...Definitly no easy answer here....My heart goes out to the little boy and his family....

Those are still some smart kids, WinWin. The negotiators should promise this guy anything he wants, if he'll let the boy go. Nobody ever said negotiators had to be honest.

Tinbashr makes a good point, but also, there's the question of getting an appropriate dosage that would put out a full-grown man but not kill a 5-year-old who is on a couple of other medications.

Remember back in 2002 when Russia used sleeping gas to rescue the hostages in the movie theater? Over 100 hostages died from the gas itself. The amount of gas needed to knock out an adult maybe fatal to a small child.

Win; he might also be locked in so tight that nobody can get in, or worse yet, bobbie trapped.

HEY, that was my idea....Bat Gas

This was my post last Thursday.....

Creek Dog

The station said police believed the child was "OK" and that police were conducting negotiations with the suspect using a plastic pipe.

Since they have a pipe going in there for communications, they should simply pump Ether in there and safely render them both unconscious, go in and get them both out.

It's all over & nobody gets hurt....

Poor kid must be totally freaking out man....

#1.115 - Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:39 AM EST

Creek Dog,

Sure it will all be over when they try to enter to retreive them and we find out how much explosive the kidnapper has set up for his final booby trap surprise.

Win, that's a great idea, but easier said than done. They can do nothing that would put the child in greater risk than he is already.

The old guy has to sleep sometime, just use hospital grade anesthesia gas with no smell, out in 15 seconds. Time enough to open the hatch is all that is needed.

Creek Dog: Ether smells.

lol I was just thinking that. Pump some odorless sleeping gas in there and then pull the kid out. Youd have to time it so it doesnt look suspicious though. The kid would naturally fall asleep first so they'd have to do it so itd be at a time that the kid would be sleeping otherwise the guy would notice that the kid just passed out and probably do something horrible out of desperation.

Rontron

The old guy has to sleep sometime, just use hospital grade anesthesia gas with no smell, out in 15 seconds. Time enough to open the hatch is all that is needed.

Creek Dog: Ether smells.

#2.10 - Mon Feb 4, 2013 11:13 AM EST

I know but by the time he smells is, he'll be out. It works within seconds.

What I didn't think about and did read here and there is about the possible booby trap upon entering......

I don't know man. This whole situation sucks to begin with.....

Exasperated737,

"Nobody ever said negotiators had to be honest."

Nor policemen for that matter. The U.S. Supreme Court has already ruled that it is legal for police investigators to lie to you during interrogation. So why not negotiators? It may not be moral, but it is probably legal.

Rontron

The old guy has to sleep sometime, just use hospital grade anesthesia gas with no smell.

The problem with using hospital grade anesthesia is that the person you are putting under has to be monitored. That stuff is given in doses depending on the individual. You pump that stuff in there without being able to monitor the status of both the child and the kidnapper, you can easily kill them them. And this goes with all forms of gas or sedation. Each person may have a different reaction or dosage needed and to do anything without monitoring either person is likely to kill both. All they can do is wait out the guy right now.

The idea of knockout gas isn't feasible. There's no gas that could safely render both the kidnapper and the child unconscious without severe risk. Gasses that knock people out, like those used in medical procedures, are administered very specifically. Things like individual physiology and body weight make a huge difference in how much gas can safely be administered. Too little, and the person isn't knocked out. Too much, and it can cause death There's a reason your anesthesiologist gets paid so much during surgery...he's walking a very thin line on keeping you sedated but alive. The dosage for an adult and a child are almost certainly going to be very different...what may be too little to knock out the hostage taker could easily be enough to kill the child hostage. That's not even considering the fact that law enforcement would have to know the exact cubic footage of the bunker to figure out how much gas to pump in.

At this point, the best route is exactly what's happening now...keep talking. I'm sure that, if the negotiators could offer the kidnapper anything in the world to get him to release the kid, they would do it...even if they were lying through their teeth. But, making such lies runs the risk of getting caught in a lie and angering the kidnapper. At the very least, that would mean losing whatever trust they might have gained with him. At worst, it could piss him off enough for him to kill the kid. Breaching the bunker is a last resort, reserved only for if the police believe that the kid is in eminent danger.

Bing,

"There's a reason your anesthesiologist gets paid so much during surgery...he's walking a very thin line on keeping you sedated but alive."

I agree. I've read that anesthesiologists have really high rates for malpractice insurance. So they need to make a lot of money so they can pay their insurance premiums.

Well that was quite educational! So gas is out for good reason. Just because it works in the old Batman TV show doesn't mean it works for a real life hostage situation.

I wish there were something that could affect an old person without harming a child.

I brought this up on Wednesday last week.

If they are talking to him thru what sounds like the ventilation tube, why have they not pumped some general anesthetic gas into the underground bunker and knock them out? It would ensure that everyone came out unharmed, and the suspect would be apprehended and put on trial.

BING,

You make a very good point. To knock the suspect out with enough gas it would possibly kill the child.

The negotiators can't just promise the moon and then renege without making negotiations pointless in similar future situations. Hostage-takers aren't generally stupid. They're often crazy, and very often evil, but they don't tend to be stupid.

"I wish there were something that could affect an old person without harming a child."

Rap Music.

For all those with the simplistic answer "just pump in gas/ether/bat gas, etc.

There is a reason that no surgeon will perform an operation without an anaesthiciain.

As for giving him whatever he wants - bad idea. Those proposing that probably don't remember when hijacking was in vogue. Provide an incentive and you will see more of this.

Prayers for the little boy and the family here. Prayers with the negotiators - they must be getting really strained at this point.

I'm wondering how in a 6 x 8 bunker how they are pooping and peeing and cleaning up and brushing their teeth etc... It has to be very nasty down there I would think.

With such an agitated man I wonder what chemical could work - for example, I have a high metabolism, so sleeping pills do not keep me asleep, and certain painkillers (Midol, alas!) leave me shaky and nervous. I eschew most painkillers and tough it out due to them making the situation worse. I take Benadryl or Tylenol PM instead of a straight sleeping aid.

With a mentally ill and agitated person, certain other chemicals do not work, such as pepper spray, etc. Plus, I wonder how much this guy sleeps. Some need only a few hours. Therefore, there are no easy answers. I wish that there were! I want this to end well just like everyone else.

I'm wondering how in a 6 x 8 bunker how they are pooping and peeing and cleaning up and brushing their teeth etc... It has to be very nasty down there I would think.

Yes, it is very nasty down there because the man has a hand gun where a six year old child can access it. Even if he has it in his pants, the boy could attempt to get to it when he's asleep and it could discharge.

At least we can rest assured that the boy will grow up to be someone who will never own a hand gun himself. We need more people like him in this world.

the guy wants one thing - to be able to spew his political crazy thoughts.

we either set ugly precedence by giving him a national spotlight and let him say his crazy talk, in hopes he holds up his end of the bargain and gives us the kid (which he probably wont, because he'll have too much to say and feel like he needs more air time)

or we dont give him what he wants, and slowly these two die for lack of oxygen.

or there's the 3rd option - he gives up the kid, he goes to prison - but is allowed to spew his political beliefs to anyone who's listending.

wait, hasnt that always been an option? and he's not taken that yet?

odds are he wont take that option now.

so final option - he just lets the kid go, kills himself and we never know what kind of true genius this guy was. because you know that you must think pretty highly of your views on the world to kill another human being just to ensure you get heard.

either you have to think pretty highly of yourself, or think so lowly of everyone else.

i'll take the later...this guys is traumatizing a child all so he can tell us just how crazy he is.

no good end to this one, because even if we get the kid...the national media is going to have to air his idiocracy over and over and over again, they wont have to sure - but they'll choose to. because we are idiots and we'll treat it like a bad car accident - we just cant look away.

Thankfully, law enforcement used their expertise and handled this with patience and the child is safe. That's all that matters here. The fact that the suspect is dead, well, he took that risk.

It's all moot now since the little boy has fortunately been released, and his captor is dead. I think it's really crappy, though, how NBC just gives a new headline to an old article with the same comments and just updates the article. They should post a new article because all the comments on the old article are now out of date.

All over, thank God.

God bless and god speed, happy they got that poor kid out safely.

Nice idea with the gas/ether...accept that the amount it would take to put the bad guy out would kill the kid first...probably why they didn't do that.

How about this idea....tell the guy to put his ear up to that PVC pipe so the cops can tell him a secret........BAM!.....situation over.

That's the same thing I suggested in a comment yesterday, to pump in some non-harmful sleeping gas.

I wonder HOW they were able to kill Dykes in order to rescue Ethan. I'm sure we'll know soon enough.

The following, however, is interesting"

"He feels like he has a story that’s important to him, Published reports have suggested Dykes wants to talk to a reporter."

So many experts wasting their time commenting on the news at the MSN web site. Go out there and solve America's problems, why don't you? you got the talking part done. This is aimed at both the right and left. sometimes it's better NOT to comment on the event.

Happy ending all around. Dead paranoid @sshole, Child unhurt, no costly trial, no prison costs, and now there is a cheap shipping container available for the next @sshole to buy.

So glad the child is safe. My grandson has a similar diagnosis, and I can only imagine how he would have handled a similar situation. Very, very scary.

With this all said and done, now an opportunity exists to figure out a good solution to such issues. People tend to copycat these sorts of things, and it would be a good time to figure out a "gas solution," or something. I don't know what, but something that would be a non-lethal action. I would never want to see the situation happen again, be we all know that anything is possible.

Again, best wishes to the little boy and his family. I hope he recovers without any more ado, and I sincerely hope he just plain forgets the whole episode.

Ethan is safe.

Assailant is dead.

No more need be said.

I've read how people were saying use various gases to knock them out. Novel idea, but there's several factors people need to take into account.

1) The amount of any gas is greater than that of a child. Most children would suffocate and die from gas.

2) Most gases to knock people out are usually extremely combustible such as someone stated using Ether. This person was a Vietnam vet. At the first scent of any gas, the chance of him firing a gun or using some other form of incendiary is increased and then you not only have a dead man and child, but a possible explosion doing even greater damage and harming others.

3) No one knew if he had prepared for possible gas attacks and could have had a gas mask ready which can be purchased at most surplus shops.

4) If he's an insomniac there's no telling when he sleeps, and even if he does, chances are he has the entrance trapped to detonate or injury any who enter.

There's possibly many other scenarios that I'm sure police took into account with this person and other incidents like this.

Whatever they did to rescue this child and kill this man might very well have been a successful plan that should be kept under wraps and not announced to the public. Tactics should be kept for use in the future.

Carryingconcealed: #2.36 - Mon Feb 4, 2013 6:43 PM EST

What "accusing little fingers" ? "personal responsibility and accountability" for whom ?

What world are you living in? I can't tell what it is that you are complaining about. What are the ridiculous labels? Are you accusing the boy that was kidnapped of being somehow responsible for something?

Read my post again, Bob. I clearly asked (rhetorically) if we could possibly place anymore labels on this poor kid.

Aspergers, mild Autism, ADDHD . . . this is liberal crap that is used entirely too much in our society, and is disrespectful to those who really do have issues like these. This little boy is only five years-old; how about they let him grow up a little and allow his mind to work some things out before they start pigeon-holing him for the next 13+ years?

So in answer to your question, this little boy is not responsible for anything . . . the pass-the-buck liberals are.

I am VERY COMFORTABLE, leaving a comptent SWAT team in charge of situations like this one! What happend to the dirtbag that kidnapped the child is of no concern to me. If we had good laws, the past behacior of Mr Dykes would have been cause for a psychological exam, which would have taken his guns and prevented any more purchases. (Prison for anyone selling to him). Anyone who opposes this approach does not have innocent children's interests at heart!

If the man took time to build a bunker, he was probably believed to have had a gas mask for himself but maybe not one for the child. Since the child was on medication, gas may have been severely detrimental to him. I'm so happy this child is safe. I believe the police handled the situation as well as they could to protect him. Nice ending.

Carrying,

That is quite a leap you made there. PLease explain how "labeling" the child as Autistic is in anyway putting the blame somewhere other than where it belongs (which is on the kidnapper). How are the liberals responsible for the situation this child is in.... Maybe it should be rhetorical since your rant doesn't really have anything to do with the kidnapping now does it?

Kids with Asperger's will often not understand certain perspectives, so there was a good chance this child would have found it harder to deal with the circumstances versus someone without autism. That was the significance of the so-called label. Get a clue.

I just want to commend our law enforcement and FBI agents for their incredible professionalism, patience, and expertise in bringing about the best possible outcome. No public spewing of this lunatic's manifesto, no lengthy trial for this nut, no harm to the kid, and no loss of limb or life to the agents involved.

Well done!

The crazy old coot is dead. Good.

Rumours that this Nut was a member of the Tea party !!!

Folks, Folks. this isn't a Republican issue. It's not a Democratic Issue. Stop slinging blame.

It's an AMERICAN ISSUE. What can we do to keep guns out of the hands of those who shouldn't have them without betraying the rights of lawful Americans to keep guns in their possession?

We need to start enforcing the laws on the books now. It's obvious that this man should not have been on the streets, much less having a gun. So why was he? He had threatened others, had killed a neighbors dog, and he wasn't behind bars?

All gun purchasers should have background checks. but honestly I'm not sure that's enough. With this man, he might have passed when he first purchased his guns, but who knows what might have happened to him since then.

We don't need NEW Laws as much as we need to Enforce the laws we already have. Mandatory sentences for crimes of violence, wth guns and with other weapons. Stop slapping kids on the wrist for crimes. Start charging them with the crimes they commit. We need to start putting them and the adults as well up as examples of what WILL happen when you commit violence.

I just thank God this child is Ok. I hope he will not have any longstanding affects from this experience.

Plain Bob 1.13 is just plain stupid.

This man was obviously very sick and yet, at one time, he was a decorated hero who fought in a very unpopular war.. One of the many problems suffered by veterans of the Vietnam War, besides being deliberately exposed to deadly chemicals who's side effects little were known about (even by the scientists that created them), was the painful trauma they went through when they came home to a country that didn't want anything to do with them! Imagine serving your country with dignity, courage and honor only to be treated like a goddamn pariah when you returned! A lot of veterans from that era felt their government and the American people abandoned them and THEY did! It took a big toll on some of these guys, most of whom where just teens when they went to Nam.. Is it any wonder that some, like Dykes here, went off the deep end? It's not surprising to me and I can't help but wonder how many of YOU would act having gone through what he did!

I'm very happy the young boy is back and I hope he will be well and happy the rest of his life but seeing people denigrate and put the hate on a person they don't know a damn thing about is pathetic! There's an old saying that goes 'Before you judge me, walk a mile in my shoes'.. It's too bad no one ever tried to get to know this man and walk a mile in his shoes BEFORE he found himself on a precipice from which he couldn't turn back! Perhaps if someone had cared enough about him to try and get him some help BEFORE he was too far gone, none of this would have happened and that bus driver would still be alive today.. Where were his friends, family and neighbors? He was a hero himself at one time and now he's just another poor, dead man not a single person seems to give a sh*t about! Sure doesn't say much for the human race, does it?

Live by the gun, die by the gun

Is your name Wayne LaPierre or are you a member of the NRA ??? You said - "Thank God this child is OK", So do I, wish we could say the same for the kids at sandy hook !!!

Let's not forget -- this guy shot dead the bus driver in cold blood. He knew he was done for long before he entered that bunker.

Once he demonstrated a psychological 'caring' attitude for the captive boy, the authorities realized that the odds just changed. The guy was no longer likely to shoot the boy as a 'first response'.

A paranoid survivalist who did everything that he could do to NOT survive...

Decorated hero??? He had a couple of gedunk medals. Good conduct which is almost automatic and VN Service just for showing up. He was an aircraft maintenance mechanic. Where's the heroics?

"Dykes -- described by his neighbors as a paranoid survivalist --"

Obviously, another NRA stray...another responsible gun owner.

Seabreezin' - was thinking along those same lines. Have been wondering for a week why the media wasn't telling us what he was demanding. Wanted to talk to a reporter makes a lot of sense now. Of course, they couldn't let him do that, for he may have had something valuable to say. The way he went about this was crazy but I do feel for him and his absolute loneliness as well.

I agree, Paul.. Heck, even if he was so far gone he was just rambling, he wasn't like this at one time! One has to wonder how many people that serve our country with pride and courage wind up on the edge like Jimmy Lee Dykes.. If they are fortunate they have family and friends who will be there to help them cope, if not, well, Dykes isn't the first veteran who felt his country and the people he fought for turned against him and, sadly, it's unlikely he will be the last..

Maybe if people would just stop and LISTEN to what they have to say things would turn out different.. I wonder just how hard those in authority in THIS case worked to allow Dykes to air his grievances? Seems to me they didn't try very hard at all even though they had the chance many times.. Why didn't they let him give his interview? What the heck would it have hurt? Some questions about this whole thing need some answers!

Good, one less crazy @ssh0le SOB, he should not had any weapons to begin with.

Luis M-1135778 ...... I agree with you.

This was a live demonstration of the Forrest Gump quote, "Stupid is as stupid does."

I am happy for the out come. The boy is safe but the nightmares he will have, will have to be dealt with by a competent therapist.

For those of you who suggested putting some type of anesthesia gas, down the PVC tubing, as a retired operating room nurse, it would have been a poor choice. The amount of gas to put the capture to sleep would have to be more than what it would take the little boy to sleep. Anesthesia is based on weight and size.

Thank God the little boy is in his parents loving arms.

Yes, Sir!!!

the guy wants one thing - to be able to spew his political crazy thoughts

Sounds like many of the Libs here on the vine, Wonder if he knew he could just spew his hatred and crazy thoughs like crusty the red. Actually I have to be honest there are also many GOPs that do the same thing. Just Imagine if these people came to their senses and realized that both sides of the isle are screwing them. One takes from the right pocket and the other takes from the left pocket leaving you with nothing

Mystery Rhee <<~~~~~~~~~~~~~>> >> >> Thank you for your very supportive post. However, I was remiss in point 2. I did not mean that this "forum" would or should take place before he released little Evan. Nor, did I mean it should take place before he, the kidnapper, was in custody. That was, at least in part, why I emphasized that any agreement should be honored. BTW, your comment on the Ravens, brings to my mind a very amusing story in my life. Remember, that I am the world's foremost female sports authority---NOT !!! Many years ago, at the Thanksgiving Dinner table, someone mentioned Rosy Grier. I made some kind of comment about him taking down Sirhan Sirhan. Everyone at the dinner table was younger than me by many years. One was my son. They were all flabbergasted at my comment because, even though they all knew who Rosey Grier is and all knew who Sirhan Sirhan is, none knew of the connection. On the other hand, the only reason I knew who Rosey Grier is was because of the connection.

For those of you who suggested putting some type of anesthesia gas, down the PVC tubing, as a retired operating room nurse, it would have been a poor choice. The amount of gas to put the capture to sleep would have to be more than what it would take the little boy to sleep. Anesthesia is based on weight and size.

Right on Judy. Anesthesia would not be a good choice and would more than likely kill the boy. As you said the dosage is calculated by weight/mass of the person but also working in any tolerances they may have due to other drugs they are taking. Also everyone is different and some people have the tolerence of an elephant even if they aren't taken other drugs. This is why surgeries are attended anesthesiologist and his sole purpose is to monitor the patient and anesthesia dosage

This was a masterful, brilliant rescue--time and patience, negotiating..

Dykes was probably wearing out from the 7 days down in the bunker--Ethan was trapped; no way out-

A precision rescue--Unbelievable. Hope little Ethan will get intense counseling---he has Autism--wonder if they slipped him some sleeping syrup, so he wouldn't have to endure whatever this Evil piece of crap did to him or remember the full experience--Children do recover, when they are that young---it will take a lifetime; but at least he is alive.

Kudos to the entire Intelligence/Police Team, Swat Team, on handling this very delicate operation.

May Ethan have a wonderful, long life, and his parents recover--It could have easily turned out very badly.

Brilliant!

Lolly1192 said: "That is quite a leap you made there. PLease explain how "labeling" the child as Autistic is in anyway putting the blame somewhere other than where it belongs (which is on the kidnapper). Get a clue."

Wow, Lolly, your reading comprehension is so pathetic I actually feel sorry for you, and I don't feel sorry for very many adults.

Let me try it slower this time, just for you: I didn't say liberals were responsible for the situation the boy was in. What I said was that tagging a five year-old with the multiple labels of slight autism, Aspergers and ADHD is typical of liberals who are always looking to explain away something that most times they should be taking responsibility for. For instance, labeling a kid with ADD when that kid is simply a product of lazy parenting devoid of discipline, and so the kid simply refuses to do what's asked of him.

I also said that they (so-called child development experts) should leave this little guy alone and let him grow up and allow his growing brain to start sorting things out before they label the hell out of him and paint him into a corner.

Me thinks it's you who possibly needs to "get a clue."

Carryingconcealed:

FYI, Asperger's Syndrome is the mild form of Autism that is being referred to.

One question I have because unless I missed it (or the article was updated since I read it): Was Dykes killed by police, or did he turn his own gun on himself when the bunker was stormed?

A gas would displace too much oxygen in such a confined space and would kill both of them. I'm surprised they didn't both pass out from a buildup of carbon dioxide, from their breath. He would have needed a ventilation system of some sort, like two pvc tubes and a fan to exchange the air a couple times an hour.

Those are not "labels," they are medical diagnoses, determined when the criteria were met upon the evaluation and examination of a qualified physician, as set forth in the DMSO. Proper diagnosis is critical to achieve appropriate therapeutic treatment. If the child had diabetes or a heart ailment, he would have a diagnosis and treatment. As it would create a heightened concern under these terrible circumstances, it would have been discussed as well. That is not labeling, it is stating a medical fact pertinent to the issues at hand.

Carrying - I think I understand your perspective that certain disorders, such as Aspergers or ADD seem to be diagnosed more and more readily and quite possibly there are children who are merely spirited youngsters and are mis-diagnosed as disordered.

However, that being said - I do not know anything about this young boy or his parents or what may have led to them seeking a diagnosis.

And - as the parent of a young boy with neurological issues that cause developmental delays, I can tell you that it is imperative for young children with these issues to get therapy as soon as possible because early intervention while the neural pathways are still developing can lead to much better outcomes later in life. I have had my son in therapy since he was 5 months old. If I hadn't gotten him diagnosed and into therapy at such a young age, chances are he may never have walked. He has congenital hypotonia and sensory processing disorder, two issues that are very common in autistic children (although my son is not autistic). Now at four and a half he can walk, run, jump and climb the playground equipment. He can tolerate the noises of his pre-school classroom well enough to not have a meltdown when they start to sing (he just covers his ears). He is almost indistinguishable from the other kids except that he can't really write or draw yet (weak hands) and is a little clumsier and slower than others. I don't label him, except to explain to his teachers what we need her to work on with him in class. It's not something that he is even aware of aside from knowing that he goes to a special "school" (occupational therapy) once a week to help him get big and strong.

It is not lazy parenting to get your kid the help that they need to thrive. At times it's exhausting advocating for your child, especially while going through the process of getting them diagnosed. Parents of children with special needs not only have to do the regular parenting of teaching their kids to put away their toys, eat their veggies,etc. They also have to coordinate all teachers, therapists, doctors, etc to make sure that everyone treating and teaching their child is on the same page. They have to learn how to administer physical and occupational activities at home, they have to learn special massage and brushing and compression techniques that are administered several times a day to help the brain create the pathways that aren't working right. They can't go out and leave their child with a sitter and relax because they aren't ever sure if it isn't going to be a bad night. So before you rush to judgement and assume that a kid is merely ill disciplined, stop that impulse to say something that you may regret. For all you know that kid's mom is holding it together with spit and determination and the very last thing she needs is for you to come out and call her a bad mother. We all do the best we can with our children. Let's just thank God tonight that this one is safely back in his mother's arms.

seabreezin---this is nice in concept but not so good in reality. im a 40 something yr old daughter of a vietnam vet like dykes. my dad did go to nam in his late teens and experinced all that you said. he was diagnosed with schitophrenia and was in and out of mental hospitals.he collected an arsenal of guns and he never beleived there was anything ever wrong with him. anything bad that happened to him on a personal basis was the gov. fault--never his. i could be that adult estranged daughter dykes had. these guys, dykes, my dad, they wouldnt change if someone gave them a kind hand. guys like dykes and my dad have services for life with the va who will give them medical care and psychriatric care for free. my dad collects 3k each month in 100 percent mental disability--and has for twenty years--and he doesnt even need to get treatment for his scitephrenia to get that money. the guys from nam may have had it hard coming back--but there is NO rationale for being mental and not getting treatment--especailly when the VA treats them alot better than the new crop of of military men and women are treated now. none of the soliders today would get the kind of disability package and mental illness treatment my father has access to--but doesnt use.dont make dykes behavior to fall collectivley on the shoudlers of the american people dating back to the end of the war. each man is responsible for themselves and for getting help when they begin to lose touch with reality. jimmie dykes had a loving child in the form of a daughter. anyone who knows the unconditional love and innocence of a child has had the kind hand you say dykes should have recived. even the most grissled of dictators who are not mentally ill end up doting on their children and having a loving family--but dykes didnt. dykes had the love of a child and ruined that too. his daugher is out there somewhere, probablly as myself would be, embarrassed to step up and claim that this was her dad. i know my dad has had run in after run in after run in with the law over his guns and mental illness. he once went to the roof of a building where he worked with his loaded gun and threatened to commit suicide, then threatened to take hostages.he was talked down from the building and placed in a mental ward. you know what happened when he was released? they gave him his guns back. he was jailed for pulling a gun on a man in a auto shop a few ywars later. again, released from jail, gun given back. we dont, as a country, take mental illness seriously. we need to stop allowing the documented mentally ill from having guns. and we need to ask that mental illness litmus tests be part of gun ownership. no sane gun owner would do any of the atrocities that have made this issue what it is. sandy hook, colorado, new mexico, alabama all had one common thread: it wasnt guns, it was the untreated mental illness of the person with the gun.

Will the guy get a military funeral and be buried in Arlington? Perhaps he was a victim of Agent Orange.

It would appear that the closest he got to Vietnam was the

Naval Air Facility Atsugi in Japan.

There he may have worked,or at least his unit, on aircraft

that were in Vietnam and transported to his base.

This would not appear to be a case of PTSD....at least not

caused by his service.

As to medals that he received:
Navy Unit Commendation.............indicates that his unit did good work
Meritorious Unit Commendation....same as above....his unit...perhaps not him personally
Good Conduct Medal............indicates that he didn't get in too much trouble while he served
National Defense Service Medal.....all that served in military at that time received this
Vietnam Service Medal.....was also given to individuals that served within certain areas outside VN

Does not fit the bill for a "highly decorated " veteran.

I served in Vietnam and one of my duties was to refer

individuals for the type of awards mentioned.

My guess; they waited until he was sitting on a coffee can ready to take a dump - when they dropped the flash grenade and scared the @!$%# out of him.

Gas would only work if it knocked them out instantly - if it took a few minutes, that would a few minutes for the captor to go nuts.

please quit referring to kidnapper as a decorated Vietnam veteran, that does a great dis-service to those who fought and suffered in that war. kidnapper was a Navy veteran, only overseas assignment was Japan...not Vietnam. Decorated? Good Conduct Medal. I have a Good Conduct Medal, so you know how low that bar is set.

“Eighty-five percent or more of standoff situations like this end nonviolently,” Van Zandt said on Saturday. “Law enforcement doesn’t want to do anything precipitously that could cause anybody to be hurt at this time when the talking cure will likely work in this situation.”

This is something we all need to remember next time there's a hostage situation.

What a relief that the boy made it out alive! I do hope he'll get counselling...the trauma he has endured might not be apparent right away, but it had to have been an awful experience for the little guy.

Creek Dog

Pump in Ether. Really? You have been watching too many movies. First of all you have no idea what is in the bunker and what is being used for heat. One spark and the ether will explode, boom, end of story. Both people dead. Too much either for the boy, same result, dead. Put down the cheap novels and turn off the James Bond movies, they are warping your mind.

Odd,isn't it, that these Bumpkin, US Government hating Southern States,need to call in the Federal Government to get them out a jam like this ?

And,as well, these Bumpkin US Government hating states are in Washington DC every time that a tornado,a hurricane,a drought,flood or oil spill occurs, seeking a bail out...which,really amounts to Welfare from the US Taxpayers.

All, this,despite the fact that these same states are so dysfunctional that they stand,almost alone,in receiving,year after year, annually,more US Government assistance than their citizens pay Uncle Sam in taxes.

Let me try it slower this time, just for you: I didn't say liberals were responsible for the situation the boy was in. What I said was that tagging a five year-old with the multiple labels of slight autism, Aspergers and ADHD is typical of liberals who are always looking to explain away something that most times they should be taking responsibility for.

Understanding why someone might act in a certain way is just that... understanding why. It doesn't have to follow that you allow kids to get away with whatever they want because of it. On the contrary, if you can then give them treatment that allows them to function better, they have less cause to act that way.

I also said that they (so-called child development experts) should leave this little guy alone and let him grow up and allow his growing brain to start sorting things out before they label the hell out of him and paint him into a corner.

In other words "avoid understanding why and play dumb".

Who is avoiding responsibility here?

And, by the way, I find it massively ironic that you look only to one particular section of society to pin the blame on something that all aspects of society is culpable of... poor parenting. Yes, I know conservatives who allow their kids to get away with everything and still pay their bills for them into their 20's and 30's. Massively ironic because you want to avoid the responsibility being on anyone you would like to relate to. It's just "those guys". Pathetic!

described by his neighbors as a paranoid survivalist

Isn't that redundant?

Happy Birthday, little boy!!

That's very true, liam - those who truly want less government in their lives have an obligation to govern themselves. Compliance, or enforcement - take your pick.

However, as Eric Hoffer once said in his book The True Believer, those who rail against a relatively weak government (bureaucracy) are actually lobbying for a stronger government (totalitarianism) made in their image. Hence the obsession in Southern states with attempting to legislate people's private lives.

As I said in a prior post, thank God the little boy is dafe.

Now that this hirrible experience is over, I have to thank the police and all the other people responsible for the boys rescue. Some might complain about speeding tickets and think the "cops" are not compassionate but they are heroes to me. No one, could pay me any amount of money to walk down a dark alley, to check on a "prowler." No one could get me to watch over thousands of inmates, who are currently in jail. If I were to carry a gun, I most likely be my own victim. We are lucky, to have such people, who protect us and still, put up with disgruntled drivers and others, who have been doing something illegal. The police are doing their jobs and many times, it is a thankless one.

No, I do not have anyone in my family, who is on the police force but, if I did, I would be very proud of them. Let's face it, they saved the day!

Seaskip, and just HOW would you have stopped the killing in CT?

Up until Adam Lanza killed all those people he was a MODEL citizen. He had no police record. No record of violence of any kind. His mother was looking into having him evaluated, but there's nothing I've seen that would have determined him as being violent?

That's the problem with these background checks. You just don't know, unless there's some form of violent history. Unless the person comes out and tells you that they are having thoughts of shooting someone, how would anyone ever know?

@Childprotection.. Everyone is different and everyone responds to help in a different way.. I'm so sorry you have a father who, like many Schizophrenics do, refuses to believe anything is wrong with him and refuses to take the medication that would help him.. You say there is NO rationale for people like your dad and Dykes not getting the help they need when it's readily available.. The trouble is THEY don't see themselves as 'in trouble', they see the rest of the world as not understanding them..

I have several good friends that served in Nam and the horror stories they went through would tear apart the sanity of many a strong man.. For those who were not, perhaps, as strong, it could have pushed them beyond the breaking point! Like I said, most of the kids that went to Nam were just that, kids! I doubt if even one didn't think they had just been dropped by their country right into the bowels of Hell itself! And some, like Dykes and, perhaps your dad, simply never got past it.. It set the stage for everything that came after and, for some, not in a good way..

You still have to realize that they were young men at one time who had dreams about what life was going to be for them and how that particular war changed everything.. They didn't come home as heroes like they did in ALL the previous wars, they came home to a land that was full of hatred for them, full of people that didn't appreciate or care about what they did, THAT made the biggest difference of all! Vietnam pulled this country apart and dropped a whole lot of young men right into the big gaping hole left behind and many never got over it..

All I'm saying is we don't have the right to sit in judgement of Dykes but he felt he had something to say to the world and many of us feel, if he had been given the chance to speak to a reporter, even if it was just a rambling monologue, things might have gone a whole different way and he might be alive and well today right along with that youngster he was holding hostage.. But, now we will never know.. It shouldn't have happened this way, he shouldn't have died like that!

Up until Adam Lanza killed all those people he was a MODEL citizen. He had no police record. No record of violence of any kind. His mother was looking into having him evaluated, but there's nothing I've seen that would have determined him as being violent?

That's the problem with these background checks. You just don't know, unless there's some form of violent history. Unless the person comes out and tells you that they are having thoughts of shooting someone, how would anyone ever know?

Background checks would not have been enough to stop Adam Lanza, Janine. That is true.

But something else could have stopped him: Nancy Lanza. His mother knew him better than anyone. She was aware he had serious emotional problems. Perhaps she did not consider him violent, but if she had been clear-headed and honest, she would have both kept him away from guns and kept guns away from him. She had her head in the sand.

All gun-owners need to evaluate the situation that exists in their home, and be aware of any family members or frequent visitors who have access to their weapons. Gun owners should be held LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE for what someone else does with their gun. Too late for Nancy Lanza.

The boy is safe and the freak of a man is dead! Thank God!

I absolutely agree with you hun! If it were possible, I'd gladly change places with this little boy if this psychotic man would let me.

The most self-less thing I have ever seen on these board. Thank you for restoring a little faith in humanity!

By catering to the wants of the child, the psycho old man showed that he actually saw the boy as a human being. And as such, he demonstrated that he wasn't AS likely to shoot the boy as a first response to any incursion. Once the psychologists were comfortable enough seeing such a demonstration, they likely signed off on this most recent assault.

@Common Sense....Unfortunatly, up to this point, this maniac is holding all the cards....

Hey Common - you think you're so damn smart, go on in there and get the child!! These trained professionals have no idea what they are doing. Gawd you are pathetic!!

Common Sense Mom ~~~ My question !!! Do YOU listen to rightwing radio, or do you just listen to what critics of rightwing rado says about it and then parrot their opinion? I used to listen to Rush and the other guys quite a lot, but I don't listen much anymore. Why? I found that 1) I disagreed from time to time. 2) Sometimes, even when I agreed, I felt they paid too little attention to the given issue. At other times, again, even when I agreed, I felt the given issue was relativitively minor, but they would beat it to death when they should have been paying more attention to something which, I thought, was more important. My point here is that I listened to them and made up my own mind for my own reasons. But, critiques I see on threads like this are so often so inaccurate that I can only believe the poster doesn't know what he/she is talking about, but can't stand to be politally incorrect.

So wow. I was just being a little incredulous that situations like this can't be resolved before 7 days. No I don't think that I am any smarter than the professionals on the scene there. Clearly they have a lot more information than I do. I guess I hoped that we are more in control of these things than the nuts are.

And Boo. you sound a little hot under the collar yourself. You think maybe you are a little angry, should we worry that you are going to take a kid hostage? You sound like someone who could do it. Maybe you need to be put on a watch list.... maybe they are already watching you....

It's not really that unbelievable when you think about it. Terrorism by people who no longer care about their own well-being is the worst. It's been in that guy's hands since the very beginning when you think about it. He could have shot every kid on that bus. Or he could have pushed the dead driver out of the bus, and drove it as fast as it would go into a large structure, or off a cliff.

Criminals have an advantage in any free society. They get to make the first move. Whereas the authorities are always in a REACTIVE mode to such crime.

Personally, I have worried about the vulnerability of the nation's school buses for quite awhile. I just hope this turns out to be an isolated incident.

Common sense - You make it sound like it's not OK to be a little angry or hot under the collar about things? Why didn't you recommend that Boo maybe get a prescription for his passion. Ooops, I mean his problem. How could you think he is potentially capable of an act such as this situation? Oh yes... he displays discontent. What is this world really coming to?

Rush told you to NOT COMMENT on this!

I have no idea (what) they would do if this was Obama's kid....but you can bet your sweet bippy....it would not be taking this long.

i figure Obama would go down there and throw money at him...seem's like the only thing the guy knows how to do...

plain bob

Obama would blame it on Bush & then apologize for something.

Were it Sasha or Malia in this situation, the police would proceed in the same manner. Hostage negotiation is a science based on the psychology of the loonies who kidnap people. Most of them do the same things over and over again, and the negotiators count on forming a bond with them. Once that happens the negotiators try to get their trust so they surrender.

Thanks for your post Mitt.

Big props to the FBI and all the law enforcement people for pulling this off and getting the boy out alive.

In addition, it should be made pubic if Jimmy Lee Dykes was an NRA Member! The survivalist mind set along with guns make it 9 out of 10, that Jimmy Lee Dykes was an NRA member.

I don't think anyone on here is stopping them from doing their job

or...on the other hand... the gunman has his weapon already drawn... bus drive pulls his weapon, and, in the ensuing gun fight, half of the kids on the bus are killed along with the bus driver...

Bus drivers with guns? What about children being killed in the crossfire? You didn't think about that, did you? That's not a bright idea if you ask me.

This is getting seriously out of hand.

Doing nothing, didn't accomplish too much for the Bus driver either.

someonespecial-3491880

Saved the lives of every single remaining kid on the bus-unless, of course, you consider that "nothing."

The top US Navy sniper and his friend were shot and killed on a shooting range over the weekend. Possessing a gun and knowing how to use it are no guarantee of safety.

trying2serve

I agree. Chuck is a hero and my cousin. He will be missed.

An armed sniper with 160 kills to his credit was murdered by someone but I'm sure that if this 66 year old bus driver was heavily armed...freaks

I meant not having a firearm didn't help the driver either. You Anti gun people can say all you want, second guess all you want. Unfortunately 2 people are dead. These children will have to learn to deal with this. Some will some won't. We will never know whether having a gun or not having a gun would have had any better outcome. Personally? I would take having a gun over not any day of the week. I would rather carry a firearm every day for the rest of my life and god willing never once be put in a situation to have to use it. Than to need it 1 time and not have it.

The driver did exactly what I hope all of us would do. He tried to stop this lunatic from taking one of these kids with him. Did he save all their lives? That is debatable. Once the driver was shot if the killer had wanted to he could have then killed all those kids anyway. He was a hero for making a stand though. Just sincerely wish he would have survived it.

someotherguy-1373018

The top US Navy sniper and his friend were shot and killed on a shooting range over the weekend. Possessing a gun and knowing how to use it are no guarantee of safety.

Being at a gun range how ever well armed and being murdered is in no way the same as driving a bus and being overtaken by a crazy man.

First off if they were all there shooting then there is a certain amount of complacency involved due to the fact its not out of the ordinary for someone to have and be walking around with a loaded firearm. The killer at the range could very well have known the victims and there for they let their guard down.

Secondly the man who killed the 2 at the range was also TRAINED to kill as well as trained to defend being killed just as much as the 2 he murdered.

Someonespecial wrote:

Personally? I would take having a gun over not any day of the week. I would rather carry a firearm every day for the rest of my life and god willing never once be put in a situation to have to use it. Than to need it 1 time and not have it.

I'm sure that carrying a gun around makes you feel safer, but research shows that statistically you are safer not having a gun than having one.

I suspect Dykes also subscribed to the idea "I would rather carry a firearm every day for the rest of my life....." How many other "Dykes" are out there? So arming bus drivers, teachers, the choir, and mail men...you can count on more lives lost than saved.

Good thing you put "if" and "might" in your statements. If the bus driver had a gun, there might have been a lot of children killed. See how the "if" and "might" works.

The hero got killed, which allowed the gunman to do whatever he wanted to those kids. He tried to be a hero, but got killed for his trouble. He didn't really prevent anything by dying. He does deserve an E for effort I guess.

really do you think the family will get any comfort from your comment?

the sniper killed on the range, dykes in a alabama bunker, colo movie therate, sandy hook, the 15 year old new mexico kid--all these situations happened becasue a gun was in the hands of a mentally unstable person. period. its not the gun. no sanegun owner pulls a sandy hook. no sane person with a gun does any of these things. mental illness and mentalinstability combined with the fact that whether you register at wallmart for a permit or go to a street corner--you can get a gun EASILY if you are mentally ill. we need to stick the issue where it belongs: untreated mental illness. a gun in the hand of one is a molitov cocktail. and our country is CHOCK full of mentally ill people untreated and guns. this is not going to go away until we deal with the real issue.

Childprotection, this man was an exception. He had been having mental/violence issues for a long time before this instance.

It's not always the case in others. Adam Lanza may have had mental issues. His mother was getting him committed for evaluation, but nothing in his background says he was ever violent. No police record, etc.

The boy in NM I have heard nothing about him having mental issues at all. He wore camo clothes around town, but that's hardly evidence of violence.

I agree that we DO need to treat mental illness, but first we need to identify it. There are plenty of what might be considered "Mentally ill" out there ON medication. Look at the # of people on meds for stress, depression, bi-polar, etc. Are ALL these people to be considered violent?

I'm just envisioning a McCarthy era style 'Witch hunt".

Mark: You give Illinois a bad name. I hope you are from Chicago and like to take walks late at night. What part of little boy hostage don't you get. Have kids do ya?

Aside from your violent judge-and-jury approach to the situation, it's amazing to me that you actually believe you can teach a lesson to people who are mentally ill. You cannot prevent someone with mental illness from doing something like this, nor do you usually know who IS mentally ill until he/she does.

Even non-mentally ill criminals aren't deterred by extremely harsh punishment. Because they think they'll be the one that gets away with it. It's like locks on your door, it only keeps honest folk honest.

@ram, so it's ok to abuse unhealthy animals?

I never said animal abuse didn't happen in other states or wasn't overlooked in other states. But it was clearly overlooked in this case THAT TOOK PLACE IN ALABAMA. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of soulsearching on the part of law enforcement as to how this whole debacle could possibly have been prevented if they had followed up on an incident that took place months before.

In some states that most would lable as "too liberal", he would have been jailed for animal cruelty... Obviously, it would have been appropriate here, as well...

Apparently animal cruelty is perfectly acceptable in Alabama. Cripes, when will people figure out that if someone is willing to cause extended pain to another sentient but nonhuman being, they are just a few steps from doing that very same to a PERSON? Factoring out all the PETA mumbo jumbo and vegan blather, taking animal cruelty seriously is just common sense for maintaining a civilized society - it's the canary in the coal mine before someone moves on to humans. If you can prevent someone from or punish them for injuring an animal and maybe use that as a springboard for psychological evaluation, you can prevent far worse things from happening to actual human beings. From a purely cold-blooded and practical standpoint, this is why basic animal cruelty laws are VITAL to a safe and well-adjusted society.

As a card-carrying Liberal, I believe the animal cruelty laws are too lax in every state. Unfortunately every prison is too full of people who fell afoul of the 'Three Strikes' laws with marijuana issues. No matter how flagrant the cruelty, criminals guilty of animal cruelty usually get off with fines and probation.

What is wrong with this picture?

Maybe. just maybe, if you were busted for your third marijane felony you needed to be locked up for being too stupid for your own and society's safety?

No, most people in AL DON'T approve of animal cruelty. Do you really think animals don't get mistreated in other states? This guy was messed up and should have been locked up a long time ago, but no, most people don't approve of hurting animals...healthy ones, anyway.

Excellent point. This lunatic was exhibiting erratic, menacing and threatening behavior for years. Exactly why we need mental health reform NOW. Waiting for the lunatic to do something before definitive action can be taken is idiotic and just puts more people at risk. This guy showed all kinds of red flags....beating a dog to death with a pipe? You need more than this to confine his ass? We need laws allowing society to profile, investigate and determine how to deal with the mentally deranged and criminally insane element of society now allowed to live freely among us. Time to make demands, people. If we cannot institutionalize and confine these insane people, it is just a matter of time until the next one strikes.

We are going to be so buried in Obama Care costs that actually having available funds to help the homeless and mentally ill is only a good idea.

There are animal cruelty laws in all states. This one just wasn't enforced. His neighbors should have reported it but they didn't. Now you liberals can stop enjoying the smell of your own farts!

@Christina Mowatt, his neighbors did report it. The local law enforcement/animal control came out, spoke to him and didn't do anything further.

But thanks for raising the level of the debate. You can go back to listening to Rush and Glenn so they can make you feel good about being an ignoramus.

@ram, so it's ok to abuse unhealthy animals?

I never said animal abuse didn't happen in other states or wasn't overlooked in other states. But it was clearly overlooked in this case THAT TOOK PLACE IN ALABAMA. And there doesn't seem to be a lot of soulsearching on the part of law enforcement as to how this whole debacle could possibly have been prevented if they had followed up on an incident that took place months before.

sg from sacramento.... as it has been pointed out ...already....on countless occasions... and by a few medical professionals to boot... The level of sleeping gas it would take to sedate a grown man is much more than enough to kill a five year old. Even if that were a feasable option, they do not know if the entrance to the bunker is booby trapped.

Don't have much experience with the legal system, do you?

I still believe that had this guy been arrested on attempted murder instead of just ticketed for menacing, this situation wouldn't have happened.

Those are two vastly different charges! Trying to elevate menacing into attempted murder is quite a stretch, in any state.

The previous complaints would have been enough to have denied him bail.

That's highly doubtful! Without proving a substantial flight risk it's very difficult to deny bail. It's usually only done for extremely violent crimes like murder.

And should the outcome be a tragic one, the fingers of blame will point to gun owners and the second amendment.

Your a complete LOON. Why not blame it on the NRA. The gun manufacturer? What if the bunker blows up? Blame it on the Roadrunner, Coyote & Acme Dynamite?

Keep that one nocked, Hunter. I believe you and MSDGP are in accord here.

From what I've read, he has a brother and sister as well.... but he has been estranged from them all for years. It isn't likely that any of them could talk him out of there....

That's the most logical response I've seen so far Frisbee. I don't know what they are doing now, but that sound reasonable.

God help that little boy, and keep him safe.

Well, if he's estranged from his family, hearing their voices (albeit, they need to sound caring not scolding) might just help. I don't think it would hinder the situation at all.

frisbeetwerp

Well, if he's estranged from his family, hearing their voices (albeit, they need to sound caring not scolding) might just help. I don't think it would hinder the situation at all.

This may not work if he separated himself from his family due to reasons that left ill feelings between everyone. If that is the case, hearing his family's voices would be the last thing he wants to hear and may be counter-productive. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad idea to look into it for the authorities, but it would be best to leave the family out of it if there are bad feelings.

If it's been 7 days and he still hasn't shot that little boy, I don't think he will. Even if it was Dykes who separated himself from his family, maybe hearing their voices would be enough to make him curious to come out. Like I said though, his family needs to have a caring tone in their voices--not a scolding one.

The ONLY important thing is the little guy is safe....! The rest is what it is.....

Was thinking the same thing myself but the little boy has a medical condition that might effect they way he reacts.

Yes Pat, and the amount that could knock out the man could kill the child. We can't take that chance.

We ?

Yeah, well thats not a very bright idea. Seems the Russian tried that a few years back when some Chechen sh-tbags took 800 hostages ata theater in Moscow. The sleeping gas they pumped though the ventilation system ended up killing 112 of the hostages because of physiologydifferences. What do you think Anesthesiologist administer the meds when people go into surgery? Because the wrong amount or dosage can KILL you.

Anesthesia can kill people? <end sarcastic tone> Wait, I seem to remember a story a couple of years ago about a fairly famous entertainer who was killed by anesthesia that was administered by a doctor...um Michael something, Johnson? Jackson! Yeah that's it!

People need to stop watching tv and use their damn brains! This isn't Austin Powers, Die Hard or anything else. The psycho was not reading from a script. After the bus driver, there are a lot of heros in this, the FBI and local police did a great job.

Glad little Ethan is out!

right after breakfast...

Hey faith, please explain that logic. I can't fathom how not eating until Ethan's release can possibly do any good.

Bob fu,

Fasting and prayer is a powerful spiritual activity. By fasting as you pray, your focus is on God and not your own needs. Your relationship with God is strengthened as you rely on Him to supply you with strength and spiritual food. It is mentioned throughout the Bible.

Thank you Faith for making a sacrifice of prayer and fasting for this young boy.

If God gave a darn, the bus driver who wanted to save the children would not be dead and the boy would not have been taken.

No amount of prayer and fasting made you part of this.

I'm delighted that law enforcement saved this little boy's life.

Whatever! God helps those that help themselves. You not eating is going to end the crisis? Get a life!

BobFu, what's wrong with shedding off some pounds?

Not eating may help you keep that New Years resolution. Rubbing your little beads while praying to your invisible diety-that let this happen-might give you something to do today. You obviously don't have enough to do with yourself. OH I know, since you are obviously Catholic, why don't you fast and play with your beads until all of the victims of your so called religious leader's sexual depravities are found and helped?