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Subscribe to RSSAs many as 54 nations aided the United States in rendition and detention operations that swept up more than 130 people as part of the Central Intelligence Agency’s global counterterrorism efforts, according to a report released Tuesday by the Open Society Justice Initiative, a human rights advocacy group.
The report, titled “Globalizing Torture: CIA Secret Detention and Extraordinary Rendition,” is the most complete account yet of the covert and extra-legal detention of suspects at undisclosed locations, or “black sites,” in the post-9/11 era. Relying on information provided by human rights groups, public records and court cases, the report details the harsh treatment some suspects faced.
“The United States prides itself on being a leader in the field of human rights, and now we have courts around the world saying that the United States is a torturer,” Amrit Singh, who authored the report, told NBC News. “Those kinds of findings really undermine the United States’ ability to advocate for human rights around the world.”
Public debate over the use of torture as a counterterrorism tactic was reignited recently with the release of the movie “Zero Dark Thirty." Critics of the film say it incorrectly portrays the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics in the pursuit and killing of Osama bin Laden, but filmmakers say the torture scenes depict just one part of the decade-long hunt for the terrorist mastermind.
The use of renditions appears to have reached its apogee after the September 11 attacks, when President Bush expanded the program to include indefinite periods of detention in third-party countries, according to the report. While the Obama administration has taken measures to impose more oversight on the process, renditions appear to continue, according to the report.
President Obama issued an executive order 2009 that directed that the CIA close its secret detention facilities in order to “promote the safe, lawful, and humane treatment of individuals” held by the United States. But the order specified that the closures did not apply to facilities used to hold terror suspects “on a short-term, transitory basis.” A task force established by the order produced recommendations in 2009 that would allow rendition to continue, but with measures to prevent “the transfer of individuals to face torture.”
Due to continued secrecy over the CIA’s extraction and detention of suspects, estimates on the total number of detainees have been imprecise. The catalog of 136 people identified in the new report as detained or transferred by the CIA is the largest such list to be compiled to date. The report notes that the total number of people subject to rendition, detention, or interrogation will not be known until the countries involved release that information.
Italian court convicts 3 Americans in CIA kidnapping
Countries assisting the United States included Afghanistan, Germany, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the United Kingdom. Some of the countries hosted facilities used by the CIA on their soil, according to the report, while others provided intelligence or aided in the capture, transport, or detention of individuals.
“The 54 governments basically enabled these operations,” Singh said. “Without the participation of these governments, the programs would not have been possible.”
The practice may have long-term ramifications for the United States, as foreign governments react to emerging information about the secretive practice, Singh said. On February 1, for example, an Italian court sentenced a former CIA chief and two other American officials in absentia to prison sentences for the kidnapping of a Muslim cleric in 2003.
The report also includes details on the brutal conditions faced by some suspects, including Maher Arar, a Canadian and Syrian citizen. Arar was held in Jordan and Syria between 2002 and 2003 after being detained at New York's John F. Kennedy International Airport on information provided by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. In Syria, he was imprisoned in a cell three feet wide, threatened with electric shocks, and beaten with cables, according to the report.
In a telephone interview Tuesday, Singh also cited the case of Khalid El-Masri, 49, who said he had been detained by the CIA in Afghanistan after being extradited from Macedonia. His case is unique, Singh said, because his claims of mistreatment have been affirmed by a court. While a 2006 lawsuit El-Masri brought in federal court against the U.S. government was dismissed, the European Court of Human Rights ruled in December that El-Masri’s rights had been violated.
Europe court:German was victim of CIA extraordinary rendition program
A 6,000-page review of CIA detention practices was approved by the Senate Intelligence Committee in December. Initiated in 2009 by a 14-1 vote of the committee, the report is a “comprehensive review” of the detention and interrogation of CIA prisoners, committee chairwoman Senator Dianne Feinstein said in a statement. The report, which remains classified, “uncovers startling details about the CIA detention and interrogation program and raises critical questions about intelligence operations and oversight,” Feinstein said.
The committee is expected to vote again in February on whether or not to declassify portions of the report following comment from the White House and CIA.
Among those urging for the declassification of the report is Senator John McCain, who in December said it is his hope that "all Americans can see the record for themselves, which I believe will finally close this painful chapter for our country. ... Our enemies may act without conscience, but we do not.”
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I don't understand what the big fuss is. If these terrorists managed to pull off another 9/11 everyone would be complaining about why didn't the government see it coming and do something to prevent it. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
Well, the terrorists co-conspirators are no longer in office, so it might not be as easy to pull off something so huge...though let's be realistic, if that moron on the plane in the Detroit area hadn't lit his johnson on fire tryin to blow up a plane, there would have been that (which our intelligence agencies had no info on). Look at somewhere like England where they've had multiple train bombings - that would actually be pretty easy to pull off in America...do you ever wonder why it hasn't happened?
The 9/11 attack has been a huge money-maker for some people - you might want to look at that some.
The 9/11 attack has been huge from the standpoint of tracking/keeping info on/infringing on the rights of Americans - you might want to look into that.
9/11 was and continues to be extremely profitable for some.
Do you ever wonder why the 1993 WTC bombing didn't push America over-board the way 9/11 did, cause some do.
Hello folks, the US government as a result of the National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) can detain you with out cause indefinitely without an attorney or trial. They can now assassinate Americans if you are deemed a terrorist. It's time to stand up to this fascist government and let them now that their power is given by us not the other way around.
Folks, this goes beyond party lines. We can and need to take back control of and make our constitution legal again.
When Benjamin Franklin left Independence Hall just after the second drafting he was approached by a woman on the street and she asked what manner of government have you bequeathed us? And Franklin said “a Republic Mam, if you can keep it”. The responsibility of a country is not in the hands of a privileged few. We are strong and we are free from tyranny as long as each one of us remembers his or her duty as a citizen whether it is to report a pot hole at the top of your street or lies at a State of the Union Address or standing up for your Constitutional rights. Speak out ask those questions, demand that truth. Democracy is not a free ride but this is where we live and if we do our job this is where our children will live.
The time is not to be silent but to speak out.
The terrorists only attack us because we have occupied their lands and manipulated their governments for years. If we stopped trying to be the world cop we wouldn't have all of these problems. So once again I blame the government for creating a problem where there need not be one.
The fuss is that we claim to be a nation of the rule of law and we violated our laws and international treaties. The Bush administration shoulds be sent to the Hague en mass to be tried for crimes against humanity .
azindy
I don't guess you caught the memo that Bush's WATERBOARDING was instrumental in finding Bin Ladin ? Obama should apologize to Bush for what he said about him & waterboarding. Obama wants to take credit for catching Bin Ladin but won't admitt that it took the waterboarding to get the information.
azindy... perhaps you missed the other part of this story. The part that says this is still going on, but with more oversight. I read a long time ago - the only change that took place in January 2009 was Obama took office - otherwise it could be considered Bush the extended edition.
We can't request other countries to abide by our requests of human rights, when we blatantly break them ourselves! They[prisoners] are under our control, so we are the ones responsible for their treatment in these facilities! Our breaking basic human rights only incites others, to do the same, and we have no arguments to dissuade them! We only have ourselves to blame, when our soldiers are treated the same way as our country has allowed others to be treated!
Are you serious? It was our fault? Get a freaking clue. They want Sharia law. Everywhere. You don't bow down, you're gone. Period.
HI, I'm from the Government, I'm here to help you, it's tax time. Trust me we aren't still slipping dick into you while you're sleeping.
This is NOT why the 9/11 2001 Attacks occured. The 9/11 2001 Attacks Occured because (Causative Timeline):
The previous Director of the CIA Bush (later President (41)) Built up the US Intelligence Agencies to become the Envy of the World after the Fall of the USSR and KGB.
President Clinton (41) Believed that the Cold War Era US Defense, US Intelligence Agencies, US Military were no longer needed; so President Clinton Chopped the US Defense Budget, Gutted the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf to the Events leading to the 9/11 2001 Attacks, per Bipartisan US Congressional 9/11 Commission (Committee) Investigations, Findings, and Recommendations, with former President Clinton saying, "I'm a so sorry". President Clinton Cut to the Bone Reduction In Forces (RIFs) of the US Military, later on to Accomplish President Clinton's US Law H.R.4655 "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" as 2003 Operation Iraqis Freedom, as President Clinton's (42) US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein it took President Bush (43) from 2001 to 2003 to rebuild the US Military that was previously destroyed by President Clinton (42).
President Clinton's Tuesday January 27, 1998 State of the Union Address demanding US Law, H.R.4655; and demanding US Involvement in support of the Holy Warriors of Islam at Bosnia (Read the whole thing two (2) pages), this is also known as the President Clinton (42) Weapons of Mass Destruction Speech.:
http://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1998/01/27/sotu/transcripts/clinton/
US Congress passed into US Law President Clinton's US Law, H.R.4655, "Iraqis Liberation Act of 1998" Section 2 Findings (Justifications) Weapons of Mass Destruction, Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein, with US Congressional Appropriations. Stating the Overthrow as a Nations Policy IS a Declaration of War, just as if the Chinese and or Russian Federation stated the Overthrow of President Obama.
http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1057063/posts
Most of us KNEW that President Hussein was the Counterbalance to the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran using his Iraqis Oil Wealth and the lives of the Iraqis Citizens of the Iraqis Military.
Later on we repeatedly opposed the 1998 President Clinton by US Law, H.R.4655 Section 3 US Policy Overthrow of President Hussein (Declaration of War with Iraq, just as if the Chinese or Russian declared the Overthrow of President Obama.).
After being threatened with jail, we went into Iraq and hired hundreds of thousands of Shia of Iraq (most had previously as Illegal Aliens fled from Iran to Iraq after the Fall of the Shah of Iran and Iran's massive unemployment). This failed due to President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies, so we did not have any local Iraqis intelligence assets to link up with, as many after no longer being US funded to survive and feed their families had become Iraqis Counter Intelligence Agents, Iraqis Military Intelligence, Iraqis Law Enforcement (Iraqis Secret Police), that were waiting for us to attempt something. The hundreds of thousands of Shia Iraqis assassins and insurgents we hired were captured, tried, executed as traitors and dumped into mass graves. President Clinton spun this to "Dictator Massacres His Own People".
After this failure, President Clinton as Commander In Chief Ordered the 1998 US Military Operation Desert Fox as his Failed attempt at the US Miltiary Overthrow of President Hussein. With President Clinton's belief that by attacking the Iraqis Political Leadership he would have no one to negotiate Peace (the step down of President Hussein); so as Commander In Chief President Clinton ordered the Airstrikes and Cruise Missile Attacks of the Crowded Urban Poor Areas of Baghdad, resulting in the Islamic World condemning the US as the Great Satan,
Osama Bin Laden starts planning his 9/11 2001 Attacks of the same targets after President Clinton had previously released Osama Bin Laden after the 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings. From Training, Education, and Experience we warned President Clinton not to mess with the Poor of Islam, so we were restricted from Targeting and only Target Damage Assessments while being at Iraq "Boots on the ground", after the US being declared the Great Satan we had to exfiltrate from Iraq as even the few Pro US Iraqis that we were living with turned against us.
After surviving many operations while most did not, most of us joked that President Clinton (42) had such a hard on of Overthrowing President Hussein because the Jewish Lobby, Monika Lewinsky, was sucking his dick.
Really. LOL.
In March 2009 President Obama starts stating his Foriegn Policies. Days later the Ayatollahs of Iran in response believe that the US is negotiating from a position of US Defeat. The Ayatollahs of Iran Increased their Overt and Covert Activities against the US And US Allies Worldwide.
The Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran's Special Forces, Quds, starts funding, arming and training Millions of Holy Warriors of Islam at the Fundamentalist Islamic Autonomous Kurdistanis Region of Northern Iraq, Syria, Southern Turkey, Northwestern Iran. These Holy Warriors of Islam are being trained in Asymmetric Warfare (Insurgency, to create Civil Wars to Overthrow US Allies Established Government Worldwide), graduates that as the "Peace Flotillas" went from Turkey (Syria Ports) to Alexandria Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood as Egypt is Key to attack US Ally Libya, the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group as the "Libyan Rebels" supported by President Obama the Overthrow and seizure of the Libyan Weapons strategic to attack the rest of Africa.
Prior to the "Egyptian Revolution" US Ally Murbarak warned the US of "Increased Al Quada Like Activities", President Obama immediately chopped all US Support, US Assistance (including US Military), US Aid and US Funding, and name called US Ally Murbarak a "Dictator". After taking over US Ally Egypt the Holy Warriors of Islam start Across the Border Attacks against US Ally Libya. US Ally President Gaddaffi starts reporting "Increased Al Quada Activities" thru the communications negotiated by SOS Condeleeza Rice, US Department of State.
The Rest of the Libyan Rebels as Supported by President Obama to Murder US Ally President Gaddaffi the Collaborator to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers (Collaborators to the Christians, Jews, Unbelievers "Die a Horrible Murdering to Dwell in that Firey Place") as Al Quada Saudi Arabia (AQ), Al Quada Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), Al Quada Syria (AQS), Al Quada Yemen (AQY), Hezbollah, Al Quada Arabian Peninsula (AQAP), the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group (LIFG), etc.
The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group was previously killing US Military at Iraq. The Libyan Islamic Fighting Group became the Government of Libya as supported and recognized by President Obama.
LOL sleepinsadie co-conspirators.
You want more, the Kurdistanis PKK, HPG, KGK currently being armed by President Obama thru US Ally Saudi Arabia, US Ally Kuwait. How about this you go find out (do some real research) why this is really wrong for President Obama to do. I will spoon feed you something, go research who the Kurdistanis PKK is first from the President's Own Executive Intelligence Agency, the CIA, Source:
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2012.html
What that source not good enough, ok, how about the US Department of State of SOS Hillary Clinton:
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1046.html#safety
And pertaining to President Obama, not still doing what is mentioned in this article, why does he keep using "Executive Privilege" refuse to directly answer the US Courts.
And in 2013 we are certainly more gracious to or foreign terrorists guests but the Obama or any other high or is that high Government official can order the killing of Americans abroad without due process.
Where exactly did America go?
Poppycock!
The terrorists don't like us because they cannot run roughshod over their people and if they can get us to finally do something about them, then they use the "victim" card.
AND
It is you who needs a clue.
Blaming our govt is not blaming "us" (the people).
http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-logic-of-suicide-terrorism/
Real conservatives and liberals don't deny facts to fit their nonsense preconceived notions (although most people in those groups do). They read books and do due diligence in fact-finding, as to arrive at correlations that can be construed as causation.
If occupation of foreign lands and support for foreign govts who are domestically unpopular in those countries is more correlated with suicide attacks than religious beliefs (or lack thereof) then clearly you cannot say religious beliefs are causal. It's simple logic.
Preachers have called for all manner of religious nonsense in every religion for centuries...they only get massive recruitment breakthroughs via foreign interventionism in foreign policy. It acts as a recruitment poster, seemingly proving those conspiracy theory/nutjob preachers right. There was simply no appetite for helping those nutjob clerics achieve world Sharia until we intervened in their domestic lives via foriegn occupation with our military, CIA overthrow of their domestic regimes, and support of unpopular domestic regimes with "foreigh aid" bribery. The clerics always rant...but without our police the world BS they are hard-pressed to find recruits.
This is the same reason the KKK dwindled and became a joke as opposed to the Congressionally declared (1860s) terrorist threat they were previously. When we quit occupying the South with soldiers in post-Civil War Reconstruction, and they lost ability to massively recruit. They still exist and preach, and even though they are still a terrorist organization by law, we do not endless murder every idiot in a white robe with bad ideas.
Our govt's CIA, from the basement of our Embassy over there, plotted and executed an overthrew of a democratically elected govt in Iran in the 1950s and put in place a dictator. That led directly to the taking of our hostages years later (to pre-empt another coup plot by the CIA, out of fear they would indeed do it again) and the current Islamist govt in Iran. If we never overthrew the first democratic state, there would likely never have been the Islamic Revolution that followed. That's why they hate us so much over there...our govt started it. It was the CIA's doing, all because THEY (Iran) wanted to nationalize (stupidly, but still) THEIR (Iran's) oil fields. Our govt decided higher gas prices here wouldn't help them (our politicians) get re-elected, so they staged a coup. Thank the CIA for the current nuclear bomb fears surroundng Iran...without the CIA's intervention the current regime in Iran would likely not exist.
Interventionist foreign policy = Blowback (the CIA's own term)
Non-Interventionism /= Isolationism (isolationism includes tariffs to limit trade, closed borders to limit a free market in labor, AND non-interventionism; if you are not a closed border, anti-free trade person, being non-interventionist does NOT make you isolationist, by definition).
Oh...and Robert Pape has continued his studies...since the book was written in 2004, the percentage of suicide attacks linked to foreign interventionism hs risen to over a 98% ocrrelation. Remember Iraq? It was plagued with those bombings...but there was NEVER EVEN ONE suicide attack in all of Iraq's history until our invasion.
No go read the book...or at least the interview.
Do you ever wonder why the 1993 WTC bombing didn't push America over-board the way 9/11 did, cause some do.
Because the major part of the plot failed and we caught those guilty. I firmly believe that the 2 movies made about how great we were in foiling the attack. And more importantly making the bombers appear fools and idiots.Was one reason Bin Ladin was so intent on attacking the Twin Towers again. I remember thinking while watching those movies,that the terrorists must be really pissed and are probably planning revenge. You would think if I thought that,that at least some people in the government would also have thought that.
Deerhunterbowl, your statement:
"I don't guess you caught the memo that Bush's WATERBOARDING was instrumental in finding Bin Ladin?"
This is not correct despite the pronouncements from Dick Cheney!
The initial report that Khalid Sheik Mohammad revealed Bin Laden's whereabouts under water boarding was refuted and debunked. When investigated, they found that Khalid was water boarded 183 times. Investigators asked for the tapes that were created during the water boarding torture sessions as proof that Mohammad's water boarding revealed testimony regarding Bin Laden's where abouts. Jose Rodriguez who was in charge of the counter terrorism section of the CIA and Khalid's torture at the time, claimed the tapes were destroyed.
The movies Manhunt and Zero Dark Thirty producers have admitted that their portrayal of water boarding gaining valuable intel including Bin Laden's location was normal Hollywood artistic license used in creating a fictional film.
In fact the opposite has been proved. Senator McCain stated:
“It was not torture, or cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment of detainees that got us the major leads that ultimately enabled our intelligence community to find Osama bin Laden,” McCain said in a stirring 22-minute speech from the Senate floor.
McCain called the techniques – implemented by CIA interrogators during the George W. Bush administration and later barred by President Obama – “indisputably torture,” and said waterboarding amounted to a “mock execution.”
We can't even get together to change campaign finance, term limits, filibustering-allowing up or down votes for simple majority. The things most of us agree on and want changed!
So Amrit you want the rest of the world to just take a passive attitude toward terrorists who want to cause anarchy across the globe? Perhaps, if you made a "Globalizing Torture" report on the Taliban, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Iran, North Korea, etc. and presented it to them, your "human rights" agenda would receive a more prosperous reception. After an Iman issues a fatwa declaring jihad on your neck, they might have a maisir-camel race to see who gets first dibs on chopping it off.
I don't think those take priority over this issue. Let's try to focus here. We shouldn't need to reform election financing, term limits, filibustering, etc. in order to oppose and stop a Presidency (not a particulae President) from having an assassination list without judicial review and indefinite detention powers.
All those things are important, but what is MORE important to even a deaf, dumb, and blind man is the issue at hand.
Who is Amrit? Wasn't the unalienable (which is not bound by citizenship, by definition) rights of man the Founders agenda? Isn't what you are calling for (widespread pre-emptive intetrventionism) what is causing terrorism (see my post full of facts above, and the link to the full interview, and title of the book so you can READ it)?
Answer to my 2nd and 3rd questions: YES
No it wasn't. Whomever thinks so, is a damned fool. All experts agree that torture rarely nets any credible information. Someone from within tipped us off anyways. It's the same way we found Saddam. Someone from the inside gave us the info, and not from torture like you want to believe.
If I waterboarded you for information about who killed a pupppy in my county yesterday, and you didn't have any clue, you would stumble over your tounge from spitting out any random name you could just so the torture would stop.
BTW, please link us to your memo. The one stating that torture is a credible means of extracting accurate information.
ProIndividual-3906907
Apparently you don't read very well. Did you even read the news article? Or did you just regurgitate your agenda? Amrit Singh is the author of the report the article was written about. The NBC staff writer even interviewed him and the article has quotes from their conversation. You're free to go present "the unalienable rights of man" to a mufti in Tehran. I'm sure you will get a warm welcome after they convict you of apostasy. You don't preserve a free society by allowing terrorists the freedom to bomb and terrorize your society so that a state of anarchy and terror is created. "The Founders" were never confronted with anything like the terrorists of today so they can not be expected to have foreseen them. The closest would probably be Shays' Rebellion and we know how they responded to that.
No, it wasn't Deerhunterbow1,
It was a friendly Pakistani doctor.
So tell me why smart guy, European Countries, who where there before Americans, slave their people, stole their treasures, divide their countries with non sense borders, are not target of the same kind of attacks. The answer is simple they have religious motives and for them is easier to take over European Countries, they already are doing so. In England they allowed sharia law when a Muslim is taking to court. In France by 2025 the largest minority will be Muslim. The occupation of Russia in Afghanistan was even worst than USA , where is the retaliation. We take over of Iraq and we end the tyrannic , murderous ,Saddam regime and it was celebrated by the Iraqi population , they had their first democratic election, we save our allies in middle east against the invasion of Saddam. What other country have done what we did.Having say that the Soros organization Open Society, don't care about the 3,000 people kilned in 9/11 and the hundreds of people killed by terrorist. Harsh interrogations are good and allowed to capture our enemies, the friends of Geoge Soros and his Open Society.
Uncle Bob 512,
The 1993 First World Trade Center Bombings Failed not by any intelligence gained; but, because the Holy Warriors of Islam (aka Islamic Jihadist, Terrorist, etc.) f**ked up and parked the white van full of explosives in the wrong place in the underground parking lot, that was supposed to parked next to the World Trade Center critical support pillars:
Photo:
http://gigazu.com/funnel/wp-admin/network/world-trade-center-bombing-1993-6410.jpg
Uh, huh, President Clinton's Propaganda Movies.
You want to watch "movies" or tv. Go watch the TV Series that mock President Clinton's Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies that left the US Blind and Deaf, go watch TV Series: C*H*A*O*S*
And do not say that is NOT how that was, it was, the US Intelligence Agencies previously built up by Director of the CIA Bush (later President Bush (41)), Gutted by President Clinton (42), President Bush (43) attempts to rebuild the Gutted US Intelligence Agencies with the help of Intelligence Community "Insider" (former Director of the CIA Bush, his father) former President Bush (41). And now President Obama (44) demanding to repeat the same mistakes of President Clinton (42), Gutting the US Intelligence Agencies thru Budget Cuts.
And how many of those responsible did we actually capture other than the 7 expendable "Foot Soldiers"; and a Blind Sheikh, Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman.
Ah, such sweet people these Al Quaida fanatics....They abuse women, chop off hands and heads and force them under this harsh sharia law. They blow up people for not believing as they do. I don't feel sorry for them. I don't give a rat's behind how uncomfortable they are since their dream in life is to make us all die.
"Black Flags" by Ali Soufan (sp) explains our enemy quite well. I would say that waterboarding someone over 180 times pretty much says it does not work. They should have picked up his family, wife and kids and fukked with him mentally.
You actually believed President Obama? Pay attention to the Dates (in bold):
Hamid Karzai demands U.S. return Bagram detention center to Afghan control within a month, 6 January 2012
2012 - 2009 = 3 years.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2083152/Hamid-Karzai-demands-U-S-return-Bagram-detention-center-Afghan-control.html#axzz2K6GtlgzP
There's more:
Libya: CIA Reportedly Worked Closely With Gaddafi Intelligence Services 11/03/11
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/03/libya-cia-gaddafi-intelligence_n_947764.html
Rendition apology demanded from MI6 and CIA by Libyan 5 September 2011
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14784365
54 countries helped CIA to kidnap, detain and torture – report 05 February, 2013
https://rt.com/news/countries-helped-cia-render-472/
You go research "Black Ships".
Why do you think Candidate Obama made the 2008-2009 Campaign Promise. He was not going to release the Guantanamo Prisoners many were transferred including to US Ally President Gaddaffi's Prisons. This of course was an "Error of Omission" (Legalese term for Lie) by Candidate Obama, only saying he was going to close Guantanamo; and not saying the rest (Guantanamo Prisoners Transferred to worse locations).
And listen to someone that visited Guantanamo afterwards:
Expansion, NOT Closure:
Naomi Wolf: 'Obama can lock any US citizen up without trial'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLSeD19m3UE
Folks, we left our liberties behind when we became the United States of Paranoia... With an gloated infrastructure as the CIA, and sorry David... if you work for the government you well know that most of the operations for the "Intelligence" are done through contractors. So, look at who benefits from this situation. BTW, been in the same pile of junk you call government for 17 years... I saw it from inside...
David...hell no I don't trust Obama. It was not the first time he lied and will not be the last. He says what is convenient until it is proven false and then he floats ideas to see what public opinion will swallow.
The fuss is the CIA's terrible history of human rights violations.
And there is scores of evidence to suggest that the CIA and other intelligence agencies had some form of advanced warning before 9/11 and ignored it.
I hope these program continue.
These programs (torture, indefinite detention, secret detention facilities, etc.) are all in violation of international conventions and according to high level FBI anti-terroism experts, are not as effective as traditional, proven interrogation techniques.
Why do you want them to continue?
Bob, These programs will continue. And according to the NDAA, these programs will be expanded domestically. So best you not excercise your freedom of speech against any form of tyranny perpetrated by the government, or you will be next on the CIA detention/torture/kill list.
I'm with you Bob.
The abuse and mistakes are unfortunate, for lack of a better word, but these tactics have to be continued because we are not fighting a traditional enemy. These tactics might well have saved thousands more lives already. We have to do what we have to do.
There I fixed your post, Sir Kit.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
I don't know Pro, getting blown-up while at work is neither a little freedom or a little safety to me.
Politicians have been known to talk a good talk then and now, but I bet Benjamin would do the exact same thing and come up with a good one liner like: "Facing a shadowy enemy, a government has to do what is necessary to insure the safety of its citizenry". Benjie F
How's that? feel better? So you know I am for peace, freedom, safety and birth control. Even if it means having a bigger stick than the other guy.
They will continue with American citizens support. Tell an American, "He's killing his own people" and "They just want democracy" and they immediately turn into Politically Correct Zombies. Well, not all Americans fall for it; there are some that see through the lies.
When I was a child i was taught all the reasons why Russia was such an evil place. Now I see all the same reasons in my own country.
Me too. But, then I grew up and discovered that they were all just real people, not boogey men.
Programs like these undermine our government and show that the terrorists have won. When you have to behave like terrorists you are a terrorist. I believe our country is better than this.
Ron, True our country IS better than this. Unfortunately our government IS NOT better than this. They are much, much worse. Our country is NOT our government.
Ron. Don't complain. We got what most of us voted for! Now we have to live 4 more year of totalitarianism!
totalitarianism? Is that what you call it when you don't agree? We still have checks and balances. How can it be totalitarianism when the House or Senate can effectively block each other's legislation? The rules for veto and overriding a veto still exist. The Supreme court can still rule a law generated by congress as unconstitutional when challenged. Heck, we can even modify our Constitution with 2/3 of the States in agreement.
But, go ahead and call it totalitarianism, it's a big word.
Our country IS better than this, but not in rubbles.
Thinking voting changes anything in this country is ridiculous.
Thinking the current administration is different that any other administration over the last 100 or so years is also ridiculous.
Just remember when these Terrorists capture one of our guys they do far worse than waterboarding us, which by the way almost every special forces person in our own country goes through when they go to SERE training, so its not like we are doing something that we don't do to ourselves, the enemy beats the hell out of us and then cuts off our heads slowly while we are still fully awake! So, i have absolutely no pitty for these guys! Besides they don't fight us like men they leave bombs on the side of the road and kill innocent women and children! These Terrorists are complete spineless scumbags!
Let me ask you, do you know that they were all terrorists or are you just taking the word of our goverment that never lies to us ?
The issue is not about - well, look what they do.
The issue about the rest of the world's view of America and our "world police" type of government and preaching about human rights in other countries when we don't follow what we preach. We can literally pick up anyone anywhere and put them in these 'hidden' prisons and do whatever we want to them - in the view of some, that makes us terrorists too.
That's okay because we can play their game better.
Steve sometimes it just doesn't pay to explain things to people when they have never served their country in the military.
Hey shaDROOL, just as sometimes it doesn't pay to explain things to people who can't perform intelligent thought processing.
@ Steve, so you're using the old fall back "but they do it too" that we used as children?
America and her soldiers should be better than our enemies.
As for our training techniques, because it was done during training to me doesn't mean that it is something to be done by me or you for that matter . It was done to toughen/test us, not be the blueprint for handling everything. They drop that from the training now?
Yes, America is the goodly hero, fighting off all of the big bad terrorists who hate us for our 'freedoms'. That is what the government would want you to think. The truth is that we created these terrorists by occupying their lands and manipulating their governments for decades. We have always been the aggressor in this war on terror. If we want to stop our troops from getting killed and tortured by these people lets just leave the region. Its time to get the hell out of there.
The theory has always been that these "terrorists" want to do nothing but kill an american. If we keep forces in their country then the terrorists wont come and attack america because they can try to kill americans right there. its pretty messed up I know and Im not saying it right
Many of the people who were renditioned were found to have no ties to terrorism at all. People who use excuses like Steve USMC are the same type who justified the Salem witch trials. After you torture someone wrongfully for months when they did nothing wrong what are you supposed to say? Sorry about that?
When I was growing up ...they were "Freedom Fighters" .. but those were the days of the "Soviet Threat" COMMUNISM .. might come to our shores .... and the Nazis had just been defeated in WWII ..
I remember the promises ...
Somehow "Freedom Fighters" became "Terrorist" and the "Big Bad Bogeyman" ...Now there are no more "freedom fighters"........ all that are now trying to fee themselves from oppression are evil and "Terrorist" even if they are halfway around the world ... we want them to obey our rule, our cultural propensities, and laws based on our religious background. ..
We have been manipulated like puppets ... into believing this crap ....
I no longer fear the terrorist across the sea .. I fear my government that has turned to lies and deceit They are no longer our protector that govern us fairly & justly ... but "terrorist" themselves ..
EVIL IS UPON US and it is our own government!
I served 23 years, did three combat tours and left the lower half of my right leg on the field of battle. Does that qualify me to respond?
Not that I am going to, but your comment is very ignorant.
Mike, hat's off and thanks.
The question is who was a terrorist. Watch the movie " Rendition". The cases brought to court were dismissed because of national security concerns. First they came for them, and I said nothing, then they came for those, and I said nothing, then they came for me. Don't forget Richard Alan Clarke. He was the National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism, the chief counter-terrorism adviser on the National Security Council. Under President George W. Bush, Clarke initially continued in the same position, but the position was no longer given cabinet-level access.
In his book, "Against All Enemies", Mr. Clarke wrote that when he first briefed Condoleezza Rice on Al-Qaeda, in a January 2001 meeting, "her facial expression gave me the impression she had never heard the term before." He also stated that Rice made a decision that the position of National Coordinator for Counterterrorism should be downgraded. You be the judge, but do the due diligence and at least read the literature.
Mr. Clarke also wrote in his book "Within a week of the inauguration, I wrote to Rice and Hadley asking 'urgently' for a Principals, or Cabinet-level, meeting to review the imminent Al-Qaeda threat. Rice told me that the Principals Committee, which had been the first venue for terrorism policy discussions in the Clinton administration, would not address the issue until it had been 'framed' by the Deputies." Which has been confirmed. This is all public information, search engine it. Wikipedia Richard Clarke. Search for the truth.
In plain American English example: You read on a container of "Food" in a Super Market the contents, from the Manufacturers Label: "This Product Contains No Food Products And Nothing of Nutritional Value".
So the Wikipedia Disclaimer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:General_disclaimer
You cannot claim Wikipedia validity while Wikipedia is saying NO Guarantee of Validity.
As far as the validity of movies, President Obama's Administration claims that Torture never obtained any useful information;
while the beginning of the President Obama endorsed Reelection (Jewish Hollywood Lobby) Propaganda video SEAL Team Six: Raid On Osama Bin Laden, shows that Torture (including threats of more torture by turning in the detainee to the worse torture (skinned alive) of the US Ally Saudi Arabia).
I previously mentioned why SEAL Team Six: Raid On Osama Bin Laden was Inaccurate as a President Obama Reelection Propaganda video compared the more accurate Zero Dark Thirty (Oh Dark Thirty) that was researched completely including our stereoscopic night vision after President Obama gave complete access to information to Hollywood, so that when Zero Dark Thirty did not meet the President Obama Reelection narrative various US Agencies that President Obama is the boss of the bosses of (including the Department of Justice) attempted to go after the creators and actors of Zero Dark Thirty for releasing "Classified Information" (which of course was stup!d, as only adding more validity and Official Confirmation of accuracy to Zero Dark Thirty).
That is true. But most will not as too lazy and or lack the cognitive research skills, and especially the skill to verify sources of information and verify the information themselves, filter out the propaganda and opinions from the facts; before posting on Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here":
Observation:
http://money.msn.com/investing/11-things-wrong-with-congress
You can see the "Too many voters embrace feel-good propaganda", from Newsviners voting for the emotive non factual "popular" opinion Newsvine posts. As to why I believe that one of the founders of Newsvine was correct about having a "!" of "Irrelevant" (non Factual) and not only "No Value", "Inflammatory", "Advertising".
David - Yawn
Reported as Grenade Trolling.
This is an Adult Discussion kimH-1330542.
Butt out with your adolescence as not even addressed to you, Obama did not pull your sting for you to talk, or stuck his hand up your arse to make your mouth move.
david - I didn't say anything nasty to you. I just sort of expressed the fact that, unlike you, I do not find you fascinating or edifying. By the way, once you put something out there, anyone who has the stamina to read it has the right to comment on it. It is not private correspondence. You always complain that people verbally abuse you but in every one of your retorts to the negative comments you consistently receive, you have some pretty nasty comments of your own to fling out. You seem to have a particular affinity with buttocks references. I will place you on ignore.
Yes, you did, other topics along with your soon to be suspended or banned "Friends". Examples already sent to Moderators.
Nope. Your post is NOT a Fact, by Definition of the word Fact. You posted your personal Opinion (again).
Which I did to the Newsvine Moderators.
Also reported to the Newsvine Moderators. Including copies of your posts, kimH-1330542.
Nope: Discuss, not comment, like your "friend's" admitted pattern "snide comments".
http://www.newsvine.com/_nv/cms/info/codeOfHonor
Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here" is NOT your personal blog to voice your personal non factual comments nor opinions, kimH-1330542 but to "share and discuss topics relating to the news." per Newsvine Code of Honor, Paragraph 2.
As what I post including links.
What I post including links. Or who, what, where, when, how, why, when, etc.
What I post from actual experiences and observations, including specific details known only to the actual participants.
What you and your "Friends" post based on someone else's non participant non factual opinions.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fact
What you and your "friends" keep posting as opinions that are non factual prejudice:
Dictionary.com
I agree with KimH
As far as Iam concerned, when it comes to terrorism they don't get any. Whether by deed or association they don't deserve it.
We are what we do.
"We became evil to fight evil, assuring its victory."
SearingTruth
A Future of the Brave
I think the International court should be doing more about this. Justice is found in court rooms, not behind closed doors or hidden in Black sites. There is nothing to fear from truth, only from lies. The guilty should be made into examples, and their crimes publicly laid out for all to see. You lead by example, and torture and jail without public trial, is not a good one.
Keep living in your fantasy world with your fantasy POTUS and his fantasy ideas for this country and like many fantasy stories, there will be a great catastrophe where once again the real American heroes will have to put their lives on the line for failed policies of past administrations.
MoreJustice...right on, well said!
Being a grunt on the ground, i can tell you that by the time the CIA get their hands on a captured person it has been proven that this person tried to kill or did kill people/Americans. I have taken people in who I have personally seen planting a bomb only to be released because I didn't click a picture of the act. Watch a guy set up an ambush, sent out a group to go get him loose one guy in the process and then we have to release the guy who was shooting at us because we didn't have proof. For those of you that think we just run around grabbing innocent people off the street and send them to GITMO you are really wrong.
Do some digging into the Maher Arar rendition, then come back and tell me what he was "proven" of doing. You, know - the guy that was given an official apology and > $10 million settlement?
I'm sure there ARE people that were let go unfairly - but don't for a minute think the opposite hasn't happened, too.
Stay out of his country & his politics .. and you won't have to worry about his bombs!
Anyone that condones torture is without standing in the eye of the world.
You have 5 minutes to extract information out of the person infront of you. the information will save the life of your child that strapped to a bomb 25 meters away. how do you get the information? Time is ticking
smartone... nice twist to the story, but there is no ticking bomb needing defused this instant. These people are being hauled away and for the short "holding period" tortured for information. We are now becoming world terrorists... and it is no wonder we are now becoming bigger targets. That isn't a fear statement - that is a fact statement.
troutmouth5 - When i was in Iraq I was called to a village where a kid was tied to an IED and placed in a field. The village people were holding the guy down that they suspected was the one who tied him up. The guy kept laughing and with in a few minutes the bomb blew up. You tell me that these things didn't really happen, but guess what, it did. all im saying is that it takes alot for a prisoner to be sent to GITMO and I have had my fair share of capturing people and having to set them free because of politics. If a person is being detained and questioned by the CIA its not just some person that they saw walking down the street. This person did something.
Im still waiting for an answer. how do you get the info?
smartone-2729650
Given 5 min I wouldn't waste it torturing someone. I'd be with my Son.
nice one Warren.
BOOOOMMM!!
warrren Failed your Basic EOD Test.
News Media Report: Two Americans, Father and Son Blown Up.
An Unidentified US Military Official (smartone-2729650) as DOD Policy, Confirmed that at a village a child was tied to an IED and placed in a field.
The village people (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDF71LjRB34&playnext=1&list=PLB44537344096461F&feature=results_main) were holding the guy down that they suspected was the one who tied him up.
The father of the child, believed to be warrren rushed out to be with his son.
The guy kept laughing and with in a few minutes the bomb blew up.
The surviving Family of warrren have been notified.
Before you say anything smartone-2729650 you know about the humor (survival mechanism) of US Military Combatants (my link to the village people) that have to deal with this sh!t for so long.
By the way smartone-2729650 your post indicates that you never worked with or for them.
Unless they are a "High Level or High Value Target" at the level of Osama Bin Laden was, they do not assign an individual CIA "Case Officer", like "Little Ms. 100%" trying to get OBL for 16 years.
One Directorate and the National Security Counsel determines the list of "Targets". The reason for those being on the lists being beyond "Top Secret" (a Security category usually never discussed) "Compartmentalized Information" and "Eyes Only".
Another Directorate gets that list (minus any justifications), and the CIA, sometimesthe FBI or the CIA's SAD/SOG, maybe the US Military Asymmetric Warfare Forces attached to the CIA's SAD/SOG go grocery shopping; and do not question the list nor observe anyone on the provided grocery list doing something*, it is their mission to fetch, and turn in the groceries to the appropriate authorities; and it is NOT their responsibility and against their duty to question what the appropriate authorities will do with the groceries.
*The Special Surveillance, Special Reconnaissance, independent Information verifications to become Actionable Intelligence, etc. was supposed to be already done by someone else. Does not mean that was even done to gain evidence.
Warren and those like you....Woosies. The simple truth is you're afraid of what's coming. And you're so weak, you can't stand up to the thought!
Using the word "woosie" is pretty weak.
David, I am a grunt on the ground. My call sign is Smarta$$. I dont work witht he CIA I deliver prisoners to our security officers.
I cannot imagine how any American could even begin to tolerate such beastly behaviors, much less cheer the actions of what are essentially sadomasochist bully actions of the most detestable actions for detestable rationalizations for fundamentally stupid, revenge motivations and of course that big PR campaign goal of irrational, unfocused fear which gives our petty dictator, jingoistic, fascist "leaders" the grounds to act our their macho phantasies and feel important! These actions have made our world less safe, made travel for Americans more and more dangerous, exposed America has a bigoted nation of fools that fails in just about every way possible to live up to its "traditional" values of freedom, individual rights, human rights, tolerance, justice, and the like! It is so depressing that it is even possible to debate whether torture is allowable act...whether a "official" has the right to order the murder of a US citizen anywhere in the world without charges, without review, without recourse...that an "official" has the right to say "terrorist" and then incarcerate anyone without evidence, without trial, without any of the rights "guaranteed" by our Constitution, and making it a felony to even speak of such actions by friends, family, lawyers, etc.! Velcome to Amerika!
When you put it in the perspective of torture 1 to save thousands, people change their mind. Doesn't make it more right, but people feel it does
When not in a time of crisis, people criticize these methods. Something happens, magically everyone is on board with the tactics of CIA. Bush's approval rating was at 90% post 9/11. Remember that?
You have to ask yourself - Do you prefer preventive or corrective actions? Which type makes an action more right?
Yeah... I remember that ... and then he proceeded to take down hundreds of years of history by passing the Patriot Act and what followed for years was the use of tactics no American citizen approved of - followed by many secret pacts like the recently revealed approval to kill US citizens if they are deemed terrorists... it goes downhill and is rolling quickly.
Wrong President, President Obama (44), not President Bush (43); a President Obama (44) Memorandum (Memo):
EXCLUSIVE: Justice Department memo reveals legal case for drone strikes on Americans
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/02/04/16843014-exclusive-justice-department-memo-reveals-legal-case-for-drone-strikes-on-americans
A long time ago (2009) I warned all of you to READ all of the President Obama Actions (not what he said; but what he actually DID) at:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions
And I stated that if you find anything Unconstitutional, TOUGH, that is what you Voted for.
Then all the Political Partisan Hacks that have no Facts to add to the Adult Discussion of Newsvine's "Get Smarter Here" like Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL, SeekingSanity, AlaskaGirl-759554, Sarah-3043284, kimH-1330542, et al.,
that do not give a crap about US Citizens Rights (their posts attempting to discredit those mentioning President Obama's Actions, like the NDAA, Patriot Acts, etc.. President Obama's Promised Protections in exchange for Loss of US Citizens Rights and Loss of Due Process of Law, Loss of Innocent Until Proven Guilty Beyond a Reasonable Doubt, etc.),
started their Personal Attacks in Failed attempts to denegrate the Facts that do not fit their Political Agendas or Narratives (Propaganda).
add to post#15.2.
The Only "Assasination" Authorized by President Bush (43) was the Termination of Osama Bin Laden and Al Quada by Presidential Executive Order (EO) in 2006, by Amending the US No Assassination Policy:
Harvard International Review, 2006, Article, "US No Assassination Policy On The Offensive".
As the Termination of Osama Bin Laden a Mission Failure to Locate And Capture. Of the President Bush (43) Authorized Mission (Standing Executive Order) Delegated to the Director of the CIA, Commander US Military Special Operations Command, Commander US Military Joint Special Forces Command since the 9/11 2001 Attacks. Does not fit the Democrat Narrative "Bush gave up looking" as the CIA's "Little Ms. 100%" spent 16 years of her life in getting Osama Bin Laden.
(Declassified) The previous President Bush (43) "Locate and Capture" Mission: It is absolutely necessary to capture (Usama) Osama Bin Laden (OBL, UBL) to gain his thought processes and planning processes imprinted on his Al Quada (AQ, Al Quiada, many spellings) Leadership; for the US to preemptively interdict Al Quada (AQ) Activities Worldwide.
The US Military Use of Deadly Force Against US Citizens was all President Obama (44); not President Bush (43). I warned all of you before (go look), as the President Obama January 21, 2009 Patriot Acts (Plural US Laws, NOT the Singular US Law of President Bush (43) Patriot Act).
soon to be happening in the United States against US citizens thanks to the ndaa act.
But the order specified that the closures did not apply to facilities used to hold terror suspects “on a short-term, transitory basis.”
Hmmm, it doesn't define "short term" is that one year? Two years? Less then 10 years? And now that can't transfer you to another place for torture....they have to do it there! I love the part where Senator Dianne Feinstein said in a statement. The report, which remains classified, “uncovers startling details about the CIA detention and interrogation program and raises critical questions about intelligence operations and oversight,” Feinstein said. Then .....The committee is expected to vote again in February on whether or not to declassify portions of the report following comment from the White House and CIA. I guess we will not hear it all then....only the parts that refer to some other President, not this one! YA think?
Not only is torture effective, it is necessary and it is being used even today under the current coward in chief to extract information from enemy combatants. The only thing that has changed is the critical path to those with knowledge of such activities. It is one of those deals that even though the POTUS know it is happening, there is no way to tie him to it; firewalls so to speak. If you are the enemy and don't like torture, then a) don't get caught or b) don't be the enemy.
Shawn you're sure a hateful ba$tard, you have no way of knowing much less proving the bull$hit you spew. But if it makes you feel better I guess have at it; just know people are laughing at you.
I love you Shawn
From President Obama's 2013 Inaugural Speech:
Disprove posts with your own Researched Facts.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!"
--Benjamin Franklin
"What country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms." (Thomas Jefferson)
So this pres tells lies..then all the followers get on here and push the same line reiterating the lies..Then when called out they say prove it.....Well if you make a statement... you must prove it...If you tell a lie and cant prove it it is a lie........That's the way it works.. you make the statement its up to you to prove your statement not for those to prove your statement as a lie..if you cant prove than its a LIE...
homerun10,
So True, ROTFLMAO:
Tell that to Feisty Redhead Roselle, IL, SeekingSanity, AlaskaGirl-759554, Sarah-3043284, kimH-1330542, et al.,
Why does the press stick its nose where it doesn't belong? People don't need to know this kind of stuff, it only causes trouble for everyone. Some things, especially protection methods for this country, need to be kept off front pages.
The government is supposed to answer to the people, not hide from them. If your government is kidnapping, torturing, "disappearing", and detaining people in secret prisons - then they're doing it in YOUR name.
Shawn, I spent a bit of time in Intel Ops, doing the odd things like interrogeration, certain types of black ops and other little things in the service of our country.
I can tell you that, yes, torture can and does make a person say anything you want that person to say. In fact, they'll say anything to make it stop. However, if it's long-term interrogation (more than two or threee weeks), then making the person somewhat comfortable, giving small privileges and so on, will render more information than a short one day to one week torture session.
There are just certain things in interrogation that work, yes, but does it get the right information? Mostly not. A longer term interrogation gives more information than you can ever imagine.
@smartone, you describe a time of war. I saw children blown up, but not by explosives strapped to the child's chest but hidden in a diaper, under anytype of clothing. In that five minutes, you will not save the child's life but you may save yours by disabling, and note I didn't say killing, the operative. Use your brains and get that person as close to the child as possible, disable that person and get the hell out of there. And this was definitely in a time of war.
I just cannot believe that any person would condone torture. When I was learning interrogation techniques, I was taught that while torture might work for 10 minutes or so to get any information, half false or more, that information was useless.
Stop watching movies about cowboys acting as if they're God and can do anything including maiming and killing to glean information. That just doesn't work.
getting that person might save the child. if the guy wants to die anyways then you have done nothing. to tell you the truth I didn't do anything with this guy and I really cant say what i would of done but it always makes me think that we could of found who had the remote. Find the guy with the remote and you stop the bomb. I want to forget the things that I have seen.
@smartone - I still have nightmares, nightsweats, fear of crowds, will not own a gun due to fear of myself. I have no use for war and most people I know have no use for it either. And this is 40+ years later. I hate a lot, if not all, I did. But I feel that if I saved one American life doing it, I'd do it again.
War has been going on since recorded time, and I'm pretty sure before that. It's terrible, nasty and does absolutely to further the human race.
All that happened to us before also, night terrors (worse than a nightmare), cold sweats, fear of any loud noises (including looking up at amused crowds after we hit the deck), being shut ins, alcoholics, tearing the sheets while attempting to run in your sleep, etc.. Of course it is not bad to be reclusive, no longer smelling everyone else's arm pits and arses, it is bad if you become completely anti social.
You know how most of us "coped" and got over those, we are back on the horse and in the saddle*, as repeatedly Recalled to Active Duty in the Special Category.
You do know, jackieboy, that the Agencies still want (need) Seasoned, Experienced, Intel people that can "connect the dots" and sort thru tons of irrelevant information, unlike most of the young Ivy Leaguers. Of course it would be up to you to get yourself up to speed before an interview.
*Literally, as we use horses, pack horses, pack mules, etc., US Military Asymmetric Mountain Warfare, 2/3rds Afghanistan as Mountains, More Horses, Mules than the Korean War; does not fit the President Obama Presidential Debates Narrative Bayonets and Horses.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arxKhJIjIiY
The video link above does not discuss the fierce urban warfare, bayonets (after we ran out of ammunition), wall to wall, building to building fighting at the Afghan Cities of Qala 'I'Janghi, Mazar 'I'Sharif, etc., we had lost so many fighting the Fundamentalist Islamic Taliban Government's "Militia" (an Army Fully Supported by the Fundamentalist Islamic Shia Republic of Iran) as underestimated (size, capabilities, weapons, etc.) due to the previous President Clinton Gutting of the US Intelligence Agencies, resulting in no local Afghan current situational intelligence. The author of the book had complete access to us, guess no one wanted to know just how many of us died (or that the forces were not only US Army Special Forces and or the CIA's SAD/SOG.).
Just as a bit of humor (something most don't know unless they were there) the Afghan "Horses" have short legs; imagine someone over 6 feet, riding a Afghan horse with their feet dragging on the ground (you have to bend your knees or the horse thinks you want them to immediately stop, or turn, riders thrown to the ground.).
Don't hate, we don't hate ourselves for killing without hesitation and with extreme prejudice. It is what we do best without emotions, so we got a lot of those that killed some of us during the 9/11 2001 Attacks (US Military Retirees and Veterans that became "First Responders" at NYC) and afterwards (since October 2001). We don't regret chasing and killing without hesitation and with extreme prejudice thousands of the Al Quada, Taliban, Islamic Jihadists along the Old Silk Road into Northern Iraq, us trying to get to the front of the columns to get Osama Bin Laden (if he was there with his Al Quada at the front of the columns, the crappy lack of current situational intel.).
Think of it this way like we do, jackieboy, Lessons Learned during the Real World Life or Death School of Hard Knocks.
Let's keep in mind that this "report" was from a human rights group that had made up its mind before processing the report. Not saying that it is not true, just be mindful of the source.
It's not your business where I live, but I can gain more information from you if you came to my house and I did easy interrogation than two days of torture. I guarantee you would tell me anything before those two days were out, truth and lie. Then who could seperate truth from lie.
Remember, if you can do something to someone else, nothing else is stopping that person from doing it to you.
Think about that last sentence. And then go shame on any and all countries that either helped us or is still doing the helping. And I spent more than four years doing what I did, and not saying nor telling how many more years.
Yeah,
and we all believe you about your background and experience.
From the article
President Obama issued an executive order 2009 that directed that the CIA close its secret detention facilities in order to “promote the safe, lawful, and humane treatment of individuals” held by the United States. But the order specified that the closures did not apply to facilities used to hold terror suspects “on a short-term, transitory basis.” A task force established by the order produced recommendations in 2009 that would allow rendition to continue, but with measures to prevent “the transfer of individuals to face torture.”
In other words rendition is still in effect under President Obama. Where is the outrage? Also of note the President signed into law for yet more years the Patriot Act. This is a blantant grab of power by the executive branch of government. You may say you feel OK with giving President Obama these powers but how about the next president or the president after that. I didn't like it under President Bush and I don't like it now and will like it even less in the future.
...
An people wonder why the muslims hate us.
.
Biden in 2016.
...
Bwaaaahahahahaaaaaaahhahaha! I thought you libs hated the likes of Sarah Palin? The only difference between Palin and Biden is the "R" and the "D" behind there names.
BS. Joe Biden has a resume that Sarah Palin could only wish for. She's an idiot and so is anyone who supports her.
BidenClinton in 2016.Biden is an ignoramus.
Any white guy who would stand up in front of a black audience and try to emulate a black preacher with his "put you back in chhhhaaaaaaiiiiinssss" comment is an ignoramus! At least that's what my black son-in law told me (I substituted Steven B's adjective for the actual adjective my son-in-law used). And Biden does that kinda stuff all the time. Biden is an embarassment!