I agree - this has been dragging on long enough. Most of the problems the defense is having are of their own making. They complain about the problems because of all the publicity surrounding the case when they themselves, along with their client, have been responsible for a large portion of it. If they did not have to do so much damage control trying to rehabilitate Zimmerman's image every time he got caught in a lie, the defense would be having a much easier time of it. They wanted the delay so that people would have more time to forget about all his lies before they pick a jury. Zimmerman has done more to hurt his own case and credibility with his lies to the public/press, his lies to the police, and his lies to the court, than any prosecutor could do. It is time to get this trial underway and get a decision from a jury as to Zimmerman's guilt or innocence. I personally think he is guilty in large part because an innocent man would not have had to tell so many lies to try and justify what he did. It is time for a jury to see all the evidence and make a decision so that all parties can move forward, particularly Martin's family. Whether Zimmerman is found guilty or not, they deserve to get some closure on this whole affair. Of course if Zimmerman is convicted I would expect that closure to get dragged out for years by appeals.

Get this riot started! Enough delay.

"I have never had a case, at least here in central Florida, as a normal thing where the defense creates their own website, creates their own Facebook , creates their own Twitter and just publishes stuff out there, encourages discussion among various groups," de la Rionda said. "I find it ironic that the defense complains they are now having to address all these issues, that with all due respect to the defense, they helped create."

Looks like GZ has been eating pretty dam good to me. You'd think with all the stress he'd be a few pounds lighter....

If you ask me, the defense is creating all these above accounts so when it comes time for the trial, they'll scream that the jurors were "tainted" from all the publicity and GZ will not get a fair trial.

They'll do it as many times as they can until the judge finally comes to an agreement where GZ will do the least time.

This it what it seems they're doing anyway......... It's blatantly obvious...

TO: saxon who wrote:

"... murder is already out the window and the prosecution knows it."

I don't know what the charges are, but somebody is dead, and it wasn't by accident.

well finally... it's high time to put Georgy boy Zimmerman back in prison

I agree with Creek Dog that one would think that the stress would have lead to weight loss. GZ's defense team says that they are running out of money. Probably they could save some money by cutting back on feeding GZ and his wife. That would save a lot.

Better hurry before Mr Zimmerman blows up, this waiting for trail looks like it's been good to him!

American Girl, the charges are second degree murder. Manslaughter is a "lesser included" charge the jury can consider.

Creek Dog, MSNBC started all the damage in the first place. They printed alot of stuff as fact that turned out to be false. This kind of " The Enquirer" style journalism is gonna hurt the case by creating a shadow of a doubt for this POS! Unfortunately GZ's attorney's are just doing their job. I wish the media would have done a better job so they can convict this idiot.

I agree with @JSinSD. The Martin youngster is dead and nothing will bring him back. And given the current level of polarization over handgun issues, I could that there are any lessons that will be learned. So, as much for the Martin family as for any other reason, it is time to be seeking closure on the whole matter.

But there are going to be lots of interesting aspects.

1) Zimmerman has gained a good deal of weight. This will potentially "weigh" heavily against him with a jury who will see a skinny unarmed 17-year-old versus an armed and much heavier opponent. I would suspect that his lawyers have advised Z to shed the pounds prior to trial.

2) Even though African-Americans are about 13% of the population, they are less than 1% of any trial involving even tangential racial issues. You might think that this would favor Z, but it means that the jury is likely to be virtually all white and top-heavy with women and retired people. These people tend to see these sorts of incidents based on "who provoked it?" Such an attitude would probably mean a conviction for Z. But the kicker card will be Latinos on the jury and whether they attach any significance to Z's Peruvian heritage.

3) The lies that Z has told the court can and should be presented in court by the prosecution. These include fibbing about having a duplicate US passport (which is in itself illegal), about his citizenship (he has Peruvian citizenship and Peru does not have an extradition treaty with the US, about his financial assets, about money laundering (the accumulation of a sum of cash unknown to the court that could be used to flee the country), about his possession of a foreign passport in his name, and even using proceeds from his web donations for personal living expenses rather than exclusively legal expenses as originally stated on the web site. These lies will come back over and over again and especially if it comes to a sentencing hearing. While the jury will not see a video of the shooting, they will see a video of Z "code-talking" with his wife. And all of those are self-inflicted wounds that cannot be appealed or withheld from the jury.

4) The most interesting bit of "expert" testimony is likely to come from state legislators Peadon and Baxley who wrote the "stand your ground" law. Both have freely volunteered their position that there is nothing in SYG that would apply in this case. I would think that having the law's authors so testify would have a huge impact on a jury.

5) While lots of people are seeing this as a "media circus" with both sides already slugging it out in the media, a great deal of this is causes by Florida's "sunshine" law that requires both sides to make public any documents that would be disclosed to the other in discovery. In more states the two sides are only required to show these things to each other.

6) @saxxon --- there was no mention in the motion to do with any expert witness list. Did you even read the article? The reference to his wife as an "expert" witness to the defense attorney's desire to move forward was just a joke. Maybe just a little to subtle for you? Did you hear the one about the roof?

My personal opinion is that the trial will be shorter and more straight-forward than most expect. The issues are clear even if the SYG law was somewhat poorly written. And the judge, partly due to past troubles with Z telling the truth under oath, is unlikely to cut the defense even a tiny bit of slack. I would think that there is about a 60/40 chance that Z will plead guilty to manslaughter with prison time. The problem is that currently the murder charge is off the table, but if the case were to go to appeal, this would potentially put murder (and the harsher potential penalties) back on the table, not something that Z's legal team would want since if there was ruling on an appeal it would be tempered by Z's past disrespect for the court, a re-trial would give the prosecution the advantage of knowing in advance the defense strategy in toto, and finally the Zimmermans do not have the money to pay for their own defense as it is. Do you think that the defense team will put hundreds more hours into the case knowing that they would not receive any pay for it.

Agreed, just looka at the photos they used originally. They show Trayvon as a 12 year old smiling kid and the photo of George was an old nasty looking photo. The truth was they were both very different people at the time of the shooting, Trayvon had thugged out and George was getting his life together. I think he was overzealous but I do think he ultimately was defending himself.

Nothing(not any news agency reports) will change the facts that:

1. Zimmermann followed someone he did NOT see commit any crime(unless "walking while black" is a crime).

2. Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for police, yet chose to confront Martin anyway.

3. Zimmerman has a history of taking meds that affect mood, and has displayed angry outbursts.

4. Was chasing Martin while armed, although neighborhood "watch" programs don't call for armed patrols.

5. Zimmerman's story that he was attacked first, is just that. His STORY. It's just as likely that he tried to make Martin stay where he was, and Martin resisted him, as was Martin's right.

If you confront someone after following them around at night, do you expect them to just meekly submit to your "authority"? Martin didn't know what Zimmerman was going to do to him.

I would have ran or fought back myself, if I was Martin.

Chris - the prosecution has two expert witnesses that can blow the case out of the water. Both the coronor and the funeral director said the evidence is that Trayvon Martin never beat anyone. His hands had no bruising and the only damage to them was a small cut on his ring finger. Clearly that is not what you would see as a result of the "beating" Zimmerman got. Murder two is way to light for this killer!

Gary - you're wrong and it will be proved. Everyone knew Zimmerman was a nutcase with a gun - looking to prove what a big man he was. He clearly got a beating - but not from Trayvon. He's nothing but a cold blooded killer and he SHOULD be tried for 1st degree murder. Too bad they ruled that out!

Oh BS Fender...Zimmerman started this by starting an altercation and then shooting and murdering the guy who picked a fight with. Faux Nuuz and that dullard Hannity have had a hand in this as well by portraying Zimmerman as some "angel" with a past containing numerous instances of violence. In your collective zeal to smear the victim you've turned a guy with a history of violence into some sort of zen-like character and the victim into someone with a history of violence. Of course the only people you've convinced are yourselves and the narrative you've gone with is littered with racist stereotyping and innuendo by dumbass right wing site reporting. What I find funny is- what happened to whole, "blame the victim" mentality being 'wrong'? Or the "law and order" politics of the right? Does that go out the window when the victim is black? Trayvon Martin is NOT here to defend himself in the media to refute Zimmerman's obvious self serving nonsense. What's even more is you people just take his word for it- you're so willing to allow this kid to be stereotyped and are so desperate for to attack him in the meantime. Don't think no one has noticed how vile and racist you Zimmerman 'defenders' are, either. Yes, I know the law treats the accused as innocent until proven guilty; that same principle actually applies to the VICTIM as well. Stop your biased, racist smearing and hold onto your pasty asses; Zimmerman is going down. Once he's convicted for murder 2 are you people going to write apologies for smearing this young man? Yeah that'll happen the day Inhofe admits that science is correct

SeekingSanity'

Keep seeking. Hope someday you find it.

"Nelson denied the motion and said the trial will begin on June 10. She noted that Zimmerman's lead attorney has been on the case for nearly a year and a half and said the problems he's having getting evidence are not insurmountable."

Trayvon was killed less than a year ago. O'mara could not have possibly been on the case for a year and a half.

I truly hope the prosecution does their job. We don't need another debacle like the Anthony trial.

My guess is that the the defense wants to move the case to get beyond all the new "gun control" discussion since Newtown. The gun debate will not help Zimmerman, especially as he takes the first step to use "stand your ground" as a defense. Timing in life is everything. Just ask poor Trayvon Martin.

American Girl-724855 "I don't know what the charges are, but somebody is dead, and it wasn't by accident."

That's true, but it's also true in the case of that man in Alabama who kidnapped a boy and held him underground for almost a week, and is now dead.

It doesn't mean that the police that shot him are guilty of a crime.

I'm not sure a trial in June, with a verdict in the sweltering heat of Summer, is such a great idea - especially if Zimmerman is not convicted - as expected.

This is probably a dumb question that has been answered already, but are cameras going to be allowed in the court room during trial?

American Lobo

Nothing(not any news agency reports) will change the facts that:

I will put the facts in parenthesis:

1. Zimmermann followed someone he did NOT see commit any crime(unless "walking while black" is a crime).

(It is not a crime to follow someone - even a black person)

2. Zimmerman was told to stand down and wait for police, yet chose to confront Martin anyway.

(Zimmerman did exactly that. It was Martin who did the confronting)

3. Zimmerman has a history of taking meds that affect mood, and has displayed angry outbursts.

(and Martin was a thug with a history of violent behavior)

4. Was chasing Martin while armed, although neighborhood "watch" programs don't call for armed patrols.

(Zimmerman did not "chase" anybody and was legally allowed to carry his weapon as a private citizen with a CCW)

5. Zimmerman's story that he was attacked first, is just that. His STORY. It's just as likely that he tried to make Martin stay where he was, and Martin resisted him, as was Martin's right.

(and just as likely that you are making things up. None of your statements make sense, or concide with the facts)

Martin had a right to walk down the street...on the other hand, Zimmemrman had every right to be suspicious

However; Martin's rights ended when he punched Zimmerman in the face. That's when Zimmerman's rights began

Same crap different day.. All these experts and their hear say evidence from the news.. Opinions are like back sides, everybody has one.. I really like the pressure on the judge and court system to convict or see impending riots from the mob justice system.. It is not illegal to follow someone in your own community to see what they are doing.. George was armed because he was not on patrol for the gated community.. It is not illegal to ask someone what they are doing in your neighborhood.. What matters is what happened at the time of the physical encounter.. Since it is illogical to attack someone aiming a gun at you I would say it comes down to one fact and one fact alone.. That is powder burns and distance of the shot fired.. If it was 3 feet or less it was self defense.. Even if the kid had no weapon almost 1000 people each year are killed by blunt trauma from a hand or foot.. With no autopsy of the young mans hands and the fact that Zimmerman said he was grasping him and beating his head on the ground makes that a murky area for defense and prosecution.. It will be interesting to see what transpires in court as the White House is pushing an all or nothing verdict..

GZ is guilty of something and deserves to be in jail for a L-O-N-G time . . . snag is he's goanna walk.

OldDog - won't find any sanity with you and your ilk as your post clearly shows. But, keep trying maybe you'll be able to fool some of the people - just not the intelligent ones!

robbo..... I love how you post the "facts" - except they aren't. You're posting one set of Zimmerman's many lies - he's changed his story over and over. You have NO facts - just Zimmerman's fiction!

robbopaloobop,

Better review the actual evidence, you just posted a bunch of nonsense!

@seekingsanity---explain to me how and who,if not Trevon Martin(tm),did the damage to zimmermans face?and please dont give me this crap that he did it later that night,cause they have pictures at the crime scene.

Roadrunnero - but the coroner DID check out Trayvon's hands and has photos, etcl, as does the funeral director. Zimmerman is going down for the murder he committed!

greg - who knows? He could have been beaten up by anyone and been out for revenge. The facts show Trayvon didn't beat anyone up. The coroner will show that. I really don't care WHO beat Zimmerman up - it wasn't Trayvon Martin.

Oh, and the photos at the crime scene are not NEARLY as bad as what Zimmerman showed up with later. He got his a** handed to him by someone then took it on on Martin. He should be charged with the murder he committed and never see the light of day again!

AHH, I see a Zimmerman donator showed up. As they say- there's a sucker born every minute.

yea robbopaloobop,listen to jo-an4354969,as much as ive read from her about this case she was there that night hiding behind a tree watching.she's the prosacution's star witness.i think she is where msnbc got all there info,she might even do the editing for them.

@seeking --so the witness that saw Trvon on top of zimmerman is lying?can you not just grab someones head and slam it into the concrete without damaging your knuckles?

Hey, George! How's that new judge working out for you? ROFL.

Looks like none of them buy your BS.

so the witness that saw Trvon on top of zimmerman is lying?

Evidently he was. He changed his story months ago, during his second questioning.

Nice ... 'ol Double Chin Chunky Butt will have his day. Sooner than later. Real nice.

For somebody screaming about the lack of money, Georgie has really put on some tonage.

Maybe when he's found guilty and completey broke, he can chew on his lawyers?

Chris from the coast, What the hell are you talking about? I am not a Zimmerman sympathizer,if you can read then you should know that I refered to George Zimmerman as a " piece of $hit",aka POS, and an "idiot"! I want nothing more than for him to be convicted by a court of law. The only BS here Chris is your entire rant. Face it the Liberal Media including Racheal Maddow were immediatly handing out the torches and pitchforks wanting Zimmerman charged with murder 1 because they had "proof"! They didn't it was Bull$hit. Then they said it was racially motivated,Zimmerman produces several lifelong black friends that say it's false,more bull$hit. Chris, tell me how you are going to feel when this JO get's aquitted because it was impossible to find a jury who wasn't tainted by your press?

@American Lobo

All five of your points are irrelevant, none of those things are breaking any laws for GZ. What is still fairly obvious is that TM assault GZ. Under what circumstances? That is what we will find out, but you cant assault someone for verbally confronting you.

greg - the original withness said she told them Zimmerman was on top of Martin but the police corrected her and told her what she saw. She has since come forward and told her original story - that Zimmerman was on top. Plus, Zimmerman had been hit several times in the face - the broken nose, remember - Trayvon's hands would have been bruised but they weren't. Zimmerman is a liar and a murderer!

say593 - there is nothing obvious about this. Proof shows Trayvone NEVER assaulted Zimmerman.

Chris - interesting. I did not realize this was YOUR press but fenderbluesjr seems to think you own it!

Obviously this is a show trial and a complete railroad job. "Sure the prosecution isn't turning over the evidence that they are supposed to. But that's okay because we are just trying to make sure he's convicted."

DOCJT informs us that the witness was "persuaded" to say Martin was not on top. He thinks this is a good thing because he doesn't want Zimmerman getting off on a little technicality like the fact that he was defending himself. I mean, if you threaten enough witnesses and make sure the judges "know the score" you can easily railroad an innocent men.

@seeing--so the police told her what she saw?hmmm how do they know what she saw if she saw it?msnbc police?and if i remember rt it was a man thet seen it not a woman.----and i hope these police arent everywhere can you imagine that,Me:i saw you officer beating that man for no reason. Policeman:no,no let me tell you what you saw,he kept charging his head into my fis while i had them down by my side

The witness, known only as John, told Sanford police that he saw Martin on top of George Zimmerman shortly before the fatal shot that has led to a national outcry, including a huge 'hoodie' march in Philadelphia last night. He recounted the details to Fox 35 News in Florida

Read more: #ixzz2K45v0iAO
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

First unless we are with the Coroners office or are witnesses we dont know any of the facts as the evidence has yet to be presented in court and challenged under cross examination. So lets stop saying the facts this or the facts that.

Second — Foghorner posted "Get this riot started! Enough delay" well this is what worries me - if Zimmerman gets off or is convicted what will happen in the community that disagrees with the verdict. I still recall the LA riots of the early 90's triggered by a jury verdict people had issues with,

Holly, Florida has what is known as a "sunshine" law, meaning the majority of the evidence must be made available to the public prior to trial. The autopsy report, police and witness statements, and Zimmerman's statements, among other things, is all available. That's how many of us know the facts of the case.

hey gregsmith, try reading the actual evidence! It's on GZ's lawyers website.

John changed his story on his second interview, a few days AFTER the murder. Seems he embellished the story on the night of the MURDER...perhaps he was swept up in the moment, believing GZ was protecting everyone, but his conscience made him come clean, so he told the TRUTH! He only saw 2 people struggling on the ground, and couldn't tell who was on top, and did NOT see Trayvon hitting GZ at all.

Dailymail? Why not National Enquirer? About as factual!

gz pursued Trayvon from one end of the neighborhood to the other, first by car and then on foot.

gz had no right to follow Trayvon with a loaded gun and unfounded suspicions of Trayvon who was simply and innocently walking home from the store.

When he called the police, gz opened up a police investigation which gz then interfered with by getting out of his vehicle and pursuing Trayvon with a loaded gun.

The evidence does NOT back up gz’s claim of being attacked, punched in the face, and having his head slammed on the pavement…. What the forensic evidence shows is that Trayvon did NONE of those things……….NONE of gz’s blood or DNA was found on Trayvon’s hands.

GZ did not shoot Trayvon in self defense…….gz told investigator Serino that he had wrist control of Trayvon when he shot Trayvon dead.

Also, gz lied when he said that Trayvon tried to smother gz with one hand on gz’s nose and the other hand on gz’s mouth. This is a lie because forensics showed that Trayvon had none of gz’s DNA on his hands.

If gz had been on the bottom, the blood trails from gz’s 2 lacerations would NOT have been running downward as shown in the photos. In fact, that blood would have been SMEARED on the back of gz’s head.

As LLMPapa pointed out “the justice train is coming for gz” who has a history of being a bully (at CarMax), molester (according to his cousin), a liar, and a thug (see 2005 Facebook @ using his boys).

In addition, gz had rage issues:

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped……“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.” (NY Daily News – March 29, 2012]

I think it was an accident that he shot Trayvon but once he started lying he could not stop, its a shame but that is why telling the truth is so important, he can't walk because a life was lost but he would not be in the hot seat he now finds himself.

It was not an accident. George had wrist control of Trayvon and shot Trayvon in the heart.

I remember "thoughtful" was one of the people who had Zimmerman emptying a fully-loaded gun into Martin (as opposed to the reality of the single shot.) I regard his claim that Zimmerman pursuing an innocent Martin for no reason to have about as much merit.

Pvblivs,

Really?

I remember "thoughtful" was one of the people who had Zimmerman emptying a fully-loaded gun into Martin (as opposed to the reality of the single shot.)

That's BS, "thoughtful" has never made such a ridiculous claim, you are just spewing lies!

Jo-An is correct.

I NEVER wrote that. We all know that gz fired just ONE bullet.

Jo-An, it is very curious that Pvblivs chose to make his comment RIGHT AFTER I had refuted Sam's assertion that gz shooting Trayvon was an "ACCIDENT."

I think that the gz legal team NOW is trying to introduce this word "ACCIDENT" in the same manner as they tried to introduce the words "STREET FIGHT"

Does the word "ACCIDENT" represent a new strategy by the defense team?

Jo-An,

I just quoted the above exchange (starting with Sam's comment) on the Leatherman Law Blog to make them aware of a possible new strategy being considered by the gz defense team.

can someone explain to me why my comment above was collapsed.

I probably do not agree with you, but let me say, I talk all the shyt in the world and have never, ever been collapsed in my whole commenting history -you know why? Because I never type anything that is as incorrect as your tripe.

How about that? does that answer your stupid question?

BS

LMAO

Oh, we all know that Zimmerman fired only one shot. But the lynch mob, which includes thoughtful, insisted that he emptied an entire gun into Martin and that that "demonstrated" that it wasn't self defense. It was a baloney story to facilitate lynching Zimmerman and now thoughtful has another baloney story.

"Thoughtful"

Jo-An, it is very curious that Pvblivs chose to make his comment RIGHT AFTER I had refuted Sam's assertion that gz shooting Trayvon was an "ACCIDENT."

You didn't just refute the claim that it was an accident. You said that Zimmerman had "wrist control" of Martin. I don't particularly endorse accident. I think it was self-defense. You claim that Zimmerman had Martin by the wrist (which would leave injuries that are not present) so that he could get a clean shot. BUT when I call you on it, you claim I was responding only to your refuting it being an accident -- much like you claim that no one said anything about emptying the entire gun.

Saxon:

can someone explain to me why my comment above was collapsed.

People here do not like comments that contradict their preconceived notions and sometimes outright lies. Contrary to what Perryvine says, it has nothing to do with whether your comment is true, false, correct, or incorrect. It's just that there are enough people who don't want what you said to be heard. The comment flagging system is the number one most abused thing on the network. And yes, I have seen it abused both on comments I agree with and on comments I disagree with.

Sorry Pvblivs,

But the lynch mob, which includes thoughtful, insisted that he emptied an entire gun into Martin and that that "demonstrated" that it wasn't self defense.

Not TRUE! Try backing up your statements with some quotes from "thoughtful"...Oh, you CAN'T.

And gz told Serrino he had "wrist control" over Trayvon before he pulled the trigger! Go listen to the interview, it's on gzlegal.com O'Mara's website.

It seems the liar here is YOU!

Oh Good Grief!!! LMAO!! Lynch Mob - Emptied an entire gun - accident - collapsing comments - WTF - this is all BS and Pvblivs knows it!!! I challenge him to find one comment made by any of the Trayvon supporters (YAHTC, Jo-An, Mr P. DOCJT. Icurhoods or myself) that calls for a lynch mob, says ZimmerMurderer emptied his entire gun, anything about a frigging accident or that we try to get comments collapsed. These people (and I use the term loosely) will spew anything to try to make this murderer look good. The problem (which they don't seem to realize) is that they can spew out all the hatefulness and lies they want, but it will not change the ACTUAL EVIDENCE nor will it make ZimmerLiar any less a murderer.

I, for one, would like to see any of the Zimbeciles actually use the FORENSIC EVIDENCE to prove their hero is not a liar and murderer. Oh I forgot - the only thing they have are the pictures that show ZimmerWhimp had a bloody nose and 2 small lacerations on the back of his head. Funny how those pictures don't prove that the confrontation was started by Trayvon but Zimmie's actions and statements. along with the physical evidence, sure prove that Zimmie is a liar and committed 2nd degree murder.

Once again, for all you people that would like to support your hero - please go to O'Mara's website called gzlegal.com and PLEASE read the actual evidence dumps. Be prepared, there is a lot of EVIDENCE contained there and it is REAL. Then come back here and let's have a real debate.

Concerned Citizen:

Your challenge is based on the fact that the archives are buried so deep that I am unlikely to find the original articles let alone get the specific comment out of millions. However, for clarification: I identify you as a lynch mob. You decided that Zimmerman should be treated as guilty and didn't want anything more than a show trial. The fact that I can no longer find the needle buried in the haystack does not alter the fact that you (plural you, all the people who want Zimmerman lynched) said that Zimmerman emptied a whole gun into Martin. I remember challenging that particular claim at the time by quoting the article (and getting my comment collapsed.)

I don't identify anyone as a hero. And (in light of your challenge) I defy you to point out anyplace I said I did. Zimmerman was some random guy who was attacked, had a gun, shot in self-defense, and is now being railroaded for it. That doesn't make him a hero. It makes him a victim. (By the way, I will accept if you say my challenge to trawl through the archives is unfair -- even though I know I never called anyone here a hero -- if you admit that yours was disingenuous.)

Jo An:

Why should I trust you. You likely have some prosecution-based site which claims Zimmerman said something he didn't. It is not plausible (even if I believed him guilty) that he would say what you say he said (except under torture.)

The website run by Zimmerman's attorney, Mark O'Mara is gzlegalcase.com. Just putting in gzlegal.com takes you to a generic internet legal firm.

CC,

I, for one, would like to see any of the Zimbeciles actually use the FORENSIC EVIDENCE to prove their hero is not a liar and murderer.

Me TOO!

Thanks Misscreant for correcting the website error, it's been a long time since I used it, I pulled it from the top of my head...my bad :)

Pvblivs,

Why should I trust you.

Why indeed? You don't know me.

You likely have some prosecution-based site which claims Zimmerman said something he didn't.

Nope, I've read all the tedious evidence posted by the prosecution ON the defense website.

It is not plausible (even if I believed him guilty) that he would say what you say he said (except under torture.)

LMAO, well he DID, Get the audio of his interview with Serrino (it's on gzlegalcase.com) a few days after the MURDER...Use your ears, and you TOO will hear GZ say, yes, I had wrist control....to which Serrino WRAPS up THAT interview...duh...he just hung himself!

No problem Jo-Ann. I didn't want people claiming you or anyone else was lying over mistyping a website.

Yes - thanks Misscreant. I like Jo-An have not been there in a while. I will make sure to get it correct next time. Thanks again!

Pvblivs.....You wrote:

You said that Zimmerman had "wrist control" of Martin. . .....You claim that Zimmerman had Martin by the wrist (which would leave injuries that are not present)

I don't think you understand wrist control. Wrist control does not leave any sign of injury. It is a "hold" technique.

Here is a link with a person demonstrating various wrist control techniques:

Click>Wrist Manipulations, Guardian Self Defense - YouTube

Pvblivs, here is the transcript from Investigator Serino's interview (Tape 1- February 29, 2012) with gz:

Serino: Compact? And you were able to overpower him as far as holding his wrist, you gained wrist…we call it wrist control…you gained wrist control on him basically, and you were able to basically liberate both hands…
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

.

.
Serino: OK. You raised it up. Do you remember hitting him with the pistol?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: Distance wise…
Zimmerman: I just remember not wanting to hit my own hand, I was holding his, it went past my hand, my body.

.

Here is the audio of this interview:

Click>Audio Recorded Interview with Investigator Serino on February 29 (Part 1)

Thoughtful:

In light of your challenge to me, the only link you should provide is one in which I called Zimmerman a "hero." Your portion of transcript reads just like a coerced confession. Innocent men have spent years behind bars because they were tormented to the point where they just agreed with whatever the police said. Of course, they edit the tape so that you only get the part that looks compelling. After all, the jury doesn't want to watch days of the police beating on the victi-- er, "suspect."

Don't worry yourself Pvlivs, the forensics (bullet direction, bullet holes in Trayvon's sweatshirt, blood splatters, DNA, ALL show GZ's guilt.

Your portion of transcript reads just like a coerced confession.

Coerced? GZ willingly spilled his guts...he "thought" he was the neighborhood hero, like you do.

Hope Bubba thinks so too, cause he's gonna be Bubba's Biatch for a LONG, LONG time!

Of course, they edit the tape so that you only get the part that looks compelling.

Yeah, sure they do...LMAO...it's all one big bad a$$ed conspiracy now, isn't it? FAUX told you so!

Jo An:

Translation: The railroad job is pretty much complete. Maybe he'll even be executed for the act of self-defense.

I know you're lying me. I do not now, nor have I ever, thought him a hero. I only think he is a victim. Shooting someone to save your own skin is not an act of heroism. It is an act of self-defense only. I spelled that out in comment 1.57. And yet you still lie and claim I "consider him a hero." I am convinced that you think that he acted strictly in self-defense but are cheering an unjust prosecution

The fact is that if I thought Zimmerman a hero, I would have no reason to deny it. But you, cheering injustice -- the attempted and possibly successful conviction of a man known to be innocent -- have every reason to deny the fact. And if you thought Zimmerman was guilty you would have no reason to portray me as thinking him a hero.

Yeah, sure they do...LMAO.

Well, you can laugh. But I've read about false confessions. Police have historically removed days' worth of "persuasion tactics" so as to focus on "the only important part," the confession. I am aware of it and don't find it funny. Now, officials say they don't do that anymore. But neither one of us believes that. You're laughing because you think they can get away with it.

No, I wouldn't be surprised if they produced three minutes of him saying what they wanted to hear as evidence, with the rest of the interrogation being "unavailable for examination." And, of course, you laugh at the idea that anyone might want to examine the interrogation in full.

Railroaded? Really? Really?

George was told a number of times that he did not have to continue answering questions, and he was Mirandized and declined legal counsel.

He spilled his guts because he thought he could manipulate his way out of a murder, pure and simple.

Yes, really. Don't forget, the regular prosecutor decided not to file any charges. So they appointed a special prosecutor who would pursue a conviction no matter what. Zimmerman is not some powerful official who can order a prosecutor not to file charges or exact political retribution. A special prosecutor is not needed for impartiality. One was appointed to get the results the powers-that-be wanted.

It is evident in advance that the interrogation is not seeking truth. It is seeking the means of a conviction. A manipulation attempt is pointless because even if he were somehow able to make it look like Martin were an alqaida agent and that he had saved the country (not likely, but let's assume) the score is that they are still trying to get him convicted.

The standard prosecutor decided not to pursue charges. Whether or not he thought Zimmerman was guilty, he didn't think the evidence was there. Important officials didn't like this result and decided to railroad him. At this point I have to assume they are willing to invent any evidence they need and/or force an innocent man to confess. They have one goal -- to convict him. And they don't care whether he is guilty or innocent.

Any "confession" was coerced, pure and simple. This is a show trial and a railroad job, pure and simple. Unless you want to say that "pure and simple" is inappropriate for anything about this case.

The original prosecutor has his own legal problems to deal with over this case, as well as the Federal investigation by the DOJ that is continuing into the practices of the SPD.

There was no guarantee that the special prosecutor would file charges. You are very confused.

Obviously, the evidence was there. His bad. Why would the prosecution need to invent anything. Forensics and George Zimmerman have given them all they need.

Nothing was coerced. I suggest you listen to the tapes. No one coerced George into anything, lol. He spilled his guts willingly and voluntarily. Even his sleaze ball attorney is not stupid enough to try that tack.

Just because you don't like the fact that the evidence is against his claim of self defense, and he has been caught lying to a judge, and he will be going to prison for the decisions he made and the act he carried out doesn't mean you can claim he was "railroaded", lol.

Pvblivs,

You seem pretty eager to ignore any actual evidence in this case and instead believe GZ is being unfairly prosecuted....errrrr....persecuted.

You have LIED repeatedly on here...

I remember "thoughtful" was one of the people who had Zimmerman emptying a fully-loaded gun into Martin (as opposed to the reality of the single shot.)

Simply NOT TRUE!

Of course, they edit the tape so that you only get the part that looks compelling. After all, the jury doesn't want to watch days of the police beating on the victi-- er, "suspect."

I, and most people really interested in this case have actually listened to the entire NE call, and the subsequent 911 calls, not these "edited" versions zimmie lovers keep referring to. YOU TOO, can listen to the entire unedited version on O'Mara's own website. The jury will hear the unedited version.

So they appointed a special prosecutor who would pursue a conviction no matter what.

Your opinion, not a fact!

A special prosecutor is not needed for impartiality.

Yeah, actually one was! Sanford PD is LONG KNOWN to have racial problems, and it's more likely the "railroaded" suspect would be a black man! Of course you probably would be okay with THAT railroad job.

Any "confession" was coerced, pure and simple. This is a show trial and a railroad job, pure and simple. Unless you want to say that "pure and simple" is inappropriate for anything about this case.

As Doc says

Just because you don't like the fact that the evidence is against his claim of self defense, and he has been caught lying to a judge, and he will be going to prison for the decisions he made and the act he carried out doesn't mean you can claim he was "railroaded", lol.

Docjt:

You are really not helping the case that it is not a railroad job. There is no reason for the regular prosecutor to be facing legal trouble over this case outside of political retribution. He had no personal ties to Zimmerman. It was within his discretion not to file charges and there is no reason to believe he treated Zimmerman differently that he would treat any other citizen in the same situation.

There was no guarantee that the special prosecutor would file charges. You are very confused.

I'm not the one who's confused. This was a clear political appointment for the express purpose of making sure Zimmerman was sent to jail. Your claim is like going to a car dealership and saying there is no guarantee that anyone will try to sell you a car. That is the job they were hired to do. This prosecutor was hired specifically to file charges against Zimmerman personally and to try to get him convicted.

Obviously, the evidence was there. His bad. Why would the prosecution need to invent anything.

There is nothing obvious about the evidence supposedly being there. It wasn't. They invented "evidence" because there was no real evidence to suggest anything other than self-defense.

JoAnn:

You seem pretty eager to ignore any actual evidence in this case and instead believe GZ is being unfairly prosecuted....errrrr....persecuted.

I haven't ignored any evidence. I've rejected some "evidence" as manufactured. The fact is that this looks like a railroad job. All the signs of dirty pool are there -- including, as Docjt points out, legal troubles for the prosecutor who wouldn't "play ball."

I'm not going to deal with (or even read) the rest of your post. You will have to address your false assertion that I called Zimmerman a "hero" first. I looked at your first sentence just to see if you owned up to that. You didn't.

There is no reason for the regular prosecutor to be facing legal trouble over this case outside of political retribution.

Actually there is, when it is shown that he failed to prosecute cases involving minority victims at a lesser rate than he did those involving white victims. Additionally, when the prosecution wins their conviction, and George goes to prison, it will be evident that sufficient evidence was available not just for charges, but for a conviction, therefore, making him liable for not prosecuting. Evidently, you are failing to keep up with the finer points of the surrounding issues that are ongoing in this case.

This was a clear political appointment for the express purpose of making sure Zimmerman was sent to jail.

You are going to have to support that with some credible evidence. As it stands, it is nothing more than your ill informed opinion.

There is nothing obvious about the evidence supposedly being there. It wasn't.

And again, you are wrong. The special prosecutor reviewed the evidence that was already collected, and then decided to file 2nd degree murder charges. The judge looked at the available evidence and agreed that there was sufficient evidence for the charges and issued a bench warrant for George's arrest.

They invented "evidence" because there was no real evidence to suggest anything other than self-defense.

Who is "they" and exactly what evidence did they invent?

I've rejected some "evidence" as manufactured

Again, exactly what evidence was manufactured? And how was it manufactured?

I haven't ignored any evidence.

You have ignored a great deal of evidence, as is supported by your statements.

Pvblivs,

You've got nothing...

You will have to address your false assertion that I called Zimmerman a "hero" first. I looked at your first sentence just to see if you owned up to that. You didn't.

Yeah, right...right AFTER you "address your false assertion"

I remember "thoughtful" was one of the people who had Zimmerman emptying a fully-loaded gun into Martin (as opposed to the reality of the single shot.) I regard his claim that Zimmerman pursuing an innocent Martin for no reason to have about as much merit.

#1.47 - Tue Feb 5, 2013 9:34 PM EST

I'll wait...and wait....and wait...

Docjt:

Actually there is, when it is shown that he failed to prosecute cases involving minority victims at a lesser rate than he did those involving white victims.

But, as you pointed out, he is not in legal trouble for a pattern of cases. He is in legal trouble for one case where he didn't "play ball."

Additionally, when the prosecution wins their conviction, and George goes to prison, it will be evident that sufficient evidence was available not just for charges, but for a conviction,

A successful railroad job does not mean that there was sufficient (non-invented) evidence. Your argument is htat a successful railroad job means that it wasn't a railroad job to begin with.

I think that it is a railroad job. I have said as much. Railroad jobs often convict innocent men on entirely fabricated evidence. (This is not to say that most prosecutions are railroad jobs but that most railroad jobs are successful even though all the evidence is fake.) Saying that a conviction would prove that the evidence was there is patently ridiculous.

You are going to have to support that with some credible evidence. As it stands, it is nothing more than your ill informed opinion.

I have already supported it with clear evidence. You removed that and only quoted my conclusion. The appointing of a special prosecutor is a non-routine event that is only appropriate when the target has undue influence over regular channels. Zimmerman had no influence over regular channels. He could exact no retribution. It leaves only one reason. The regular prosecutor made a decision (not to prosecute) that the powers-that-be didn't like. But you close your eyes, plug your ears and shout, "la la la la LA LA LA ILL INFORMED OPINION."

And again, you are wrong. The special prosecutor reviewed the evidence that was already collected, and then decided to file 2nd degree murder charges. The judge looked at the available evidence and agreed that there was sufficient evidence for the charges and issued a bench warrant for George's arrest.

All of which is consistent with a politically-motivated railroad job. After all, the judges only needed to be reminded what happened to the prosecutor who decided not to prosecute. And I say "judges" because this would be before they knew who would be assigned.

Who is "they" and exactly what evidence did they invent?

"They" refers to the prosecutor and the police that suddenly "found" all this evidence after the special prosecutor was appointed. The evidence they invented is all the stuff you keep saying "look at all this evidence on the prosecutor's website" about. I don't believe there is any legitimate evidence; so everything they present as evidence is invented.

You have ignored a great deal of evidence, as is supported by your statements.

No, I haven't ignored it. I have made a conclusion about its legitimacy (that it has none) that you don't like. But I haven't ignored it.

Jo Ann:

Since you won't apologize for lying about me, I will hit "ignore author" now. It's not like you have anything worthwhile anyway. First you call me a liar and then you blatantly lie and say that I call Zimmerman a "hero." when it is quite clear that I only call him a victim. And you did this immediately after I corrected someone else on making the same statement.

Good grief. I could have understood it if thoughtful had said that I was attaching the wrong name to the "emptying the gun" comment. I only distinctly remember correcting the comment with what was present in the article at the time. But he didn't say that. What he said was on the order of "prove it, find the needle in the haystack."

~yawn~

SeekingSanity

Both the coronor and the funeral director said the evidence is that Trayvon Martin never beat anyone.

There are pictures taken by the police at the scene, how are your going to explain that? There are witnesses, how do you explain that. Face it, your boy Martin fu'ed up and got his ass blown away.

Face it. Your boy Zimmerman f***ed up when he committed 2nd degree murder and he will be spending 25-life in prison.

And I guess youre going to have to let a Florida jury decide that, my guess is, the jury is going to come to the conclusion that "I'd have smoked his ass too, ghetto rat vs. NW watch guy", not much of a decision.

In other words, you are assuming the jurors will be as ignorant and racist as you are. LOL. No such luck, Chuckles. They eliminate people like you from the pool.

LMAO...Ole stevie boy assumes the majority of people in Sanford are racists like him...LOL...

But they aren't!

ZimmerLiar will be tried with actual evidence...and convicted!

Bye, bye georgie, bye, bye...

Docjt:

All I see is self-defense, followed by a concerted effort to railroad the guy who defended himself. Why do you think we kept seeing pictures of Mr. Martin from back when he was a 10-yr-old boy (give or take a year or two)? It's because the media were trying to project an image of harmlessness that a more recent photo would discredit that image. It is unlikely that there will be any jurors who have not seen that deceptive imagery over and over.

The regular prosecutor decided the evidence just wasn't there and didn't file charges. Now, he may have decided that filing charges would imply malicious prosecution, or he may simply not have wanted to waste his time on an acquittal. The political forces didn't like that. And you point out that he is now facing legal troubles for not "playing ball."

Next, they called in a special prosecutor, the sole purpose of which was to file charges against Zimmerman. She cancelled the grand jury -- already impaneled -- because there was an off chance that the grand jury would not indict. Usually, a grand jury just rubber-stamps whatever the prosecutor wants; but she didn't want to take any chances.

Now they are busy manufacturing evidence and blocking the defense attorney from examining any of it; and the judge says that that problem is "not insurmountable."

If someone is trying to beat me to death, and I have a gun on me, I will shoot. One would hope, like Steve, that the jury would come to the same conclusion. But with the setup being done here, he probably won't be allowed to testify to the fact that his life was in danger.

Although you were incorrect in detail, you are correct that they do eliminate people who believe in Constitutional principles or will not go along with a prosecutor's railroad job from jury pools. It keeps the Innocence Project very busy. Sadly, the jury will generally require the defendant to prove his innocence rather than the prosecutor to prove his guilt. the pretty phrase "presumption of innocence" is just that, a pretty phrase. It is very likely, with all the deception by both the media and the state, that they will get a jury ready to convict Zimmerman before the trial even starts.

All I see is self-defense, followed by a concerted effort to railroad the guy who defended himself. Why do you think we kept seeing pictures of Mr. Martin from back when he was a 10-yr-old boy (give or take a year or two)? It's because the media were trying to project an image of harmlessness that a more recent photo would discredit that image. It is unlikely that there will be any jurors who have not seen that deceptive imagery over and over.

Then I guess you haven't done much reading about the case. Numerous times in the media more than one picture of Trayvon Martin was published that were taken 2 weeks prior to his killing. And his age was accurately stated from the initial report of the incident onward.

If they were trying to railroad George, they would have published a photo of Trayvon Martin dead on the ground with a bullet hole in his chest and a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea by his side. Which, BTW, are photos that will be shown to the jury as evidence. Think that won't have an impact?

The regular prosecutor decided the evidence just wasn't there and didn't file charges. Now, he may have decided that filing charges would imply malicious prosecution, or he may simply not have wanted to waste his time on an acquittal. The political forces didn't like that. And you point out that he is now facing legal troubles for not "playing ball."

And evidently, his judgement was in error, because there was sufficient evidence for charges to be filed, as is supported by the special prosecutor reviewing the evidence, recommending charges, and a judge agreeing that there was sufficient evidence for charges and issuing a Bench Warrant for Zimmerman's arrest. The question remaining is, why was the origninal prosecutor so much in error? Incompetence or racial bias? That is what is being investigated. If this was such a clear cut case of self defense, or insufficient evidence to warrant charges and prosecution, why is O'Mara doing everything in his power to delay going to court? If this is so cut and dried, the trial should have taken place months ago, so Old Georgie Porgie could be walking free. The fact of the matter is, the defense is having one hell of a time finding anything to support the claim of self defense, and dispute the charge of 2nd degree murder. Quite obvious that it is not so cut and dried as you seem to believe. If it were, it would have all been over and done with by now.

If someone is trying to beat me to death, and I have a gun on me, I will shoot. One would hope, like Steve, that the jury would come to the same conclusion. But with the setup being done here, he probably won't be allowed to testify to the fact that his life was in danger.

If you have evidence to support that you were being beaten to death, then you would have a case. George has no such evidence. That is why O'Mara hasn't taken the case to trial yet. He is busy trying to manufacture a case.

No one can prevent George from testifying. It is his right. And frankly, I hope he does. It will help to seal the prosecution's case.

Although you were incorrect in detail

Exactly what detail was I incorrect in. Be specific.

they do eliminate people who believe in Constitutional principles or will not go along with a prosecutor's railroad job from jury pools

LOL! Support that with proof. That is absurd. You are getting increasingly ridiculous.

Sadly, the jury will generally require the defendant to prove his innocence rather than the prosecutor to prove his guilt.

Nope. You are either terribly confused, terribly misinformed, or a combination of the two. Burden of proof is on the prosecutor, unless a pre-emptive defense strategy, such as self defense, is used.

It keeps the Innocence Project very busy

The Innocence Project is kept busy, not as a result of jury decisions, but of procedural misconduct in trials racial bias in prosecution and defense, and denial of Constitutional Rights. George has suffered from none of these.

It keeps the Innocence Project very busy

It is very likely, with all the deception by both the media and the state, that they will get a jury ready to convict Zimmerman before the trial even starts.

If a juror has pre-determined guilt or not guilty, then that juror will be excused from serving.

Looks like you are busy manufacturing excuses for his conviction before it has even happened. Just can't deal with the probability that he will be convicted on the evidence in the case, can you?

I've done quite a bit of reading. I keep seeing the picture of the 10-yr-old over and over. If this weren't a setup, we shouldn't have seen that picture at all. Now, I have seen some individuals post what they stated was a more recent photo, with two middle fingers sticking up. But the people who want Zimmerman in jail insist that wasn't Mr. Martin. And, quite frankly, that photo of the deceased if real and presented to the jury would likely result in an acquittal.

If they were trying to railroad George, they would have published a photo of Trayvon Martin dead on the ground with a bullet hole in his chest and a bag of Skittles and a can of iced tea by his side.

Nooo, they wouldn't. It just doesn't have the same "not a threat" image. The adult face would give the impression of "yes, that man could have been attacking Zimmerman." A shot in the back might have the desired impact But the police didn't know Zimmerman was to be railroaded until later.

And evidently, his judgement was in error, because there was sufficient evidence for charges to be filed, as is supported by the special prosecutor reviewing the evidence, recommending charges, and a judge agreeing that there was sufficient evidence for charges and issuing a Bench Warrant for Zimmerman's arrest.

Given that I believe Zimmerman to be the victim of a railroad job, telling me one more time that the special prosecutor filed charges and the judge followed instructions and issued a bench warrant is not going to change my mind. It fits what I already believe happened. I dwell over the details that I do because they are the ones that do not fit the official story. That's why I think something is wrong.

The mere fact that a prosecutor files charges does not scream "railroad job." The fact that a special prosecutor was brought in is suspicious, though. I have never heard of any case anywhere where a special prosecutor was brought in and no charges were filed -- although I seem to remember cases where politicians had to bring in multiple special prosecutors before one of them would file charges. Once a special prosecutor is announced, it can be assumed that charges will be filed.

Allow me to simplify this for you. You keep telling me that the prosecutor filed charges and the judge issued a warrant as if that is supposed to convince me that everything is legitimate, it's not a railroad job, and it's not a show trial. So you tell me why you think that in a farcical railroad job and show trial, the prosecutor would not file charges and the judge would not issue a warrant. Either that, or give me something that you think would not happen in the event of a railroad job and show trial.

I think that they decided to do a railroad job because of the threats of riots from certain black activist groups. Everything that we have seen fits that hypothesis quite comfortably. You have not presented anything that challenges that in any way. Instead, you have presented things which can be expected in both a legitimate case and a railroad job. I have focused on things that you do not expect to find in a legitimate case.

Exactly what detail was I incorrect in. Be specific.

The detail about "ignorant and racist." Believing Martin (who was bashing Zimmerman's head in) to be a threat does not make one ignorant or racist. However, Steve is the sort of person not to be impressed with this prosecutor's case and they do try to remove that sort of person from jury pools.

Nope. You are either terribly confused, terribly misinformed, or a combination of the two. Burden of proof is on the prosecutor, unless a pre-emptive defense strategy, such as self defense, is used.

Incorrect. That is the official claim. And I recognize that it is the official claim. But it is not the reality. Unfortunately, the reality is that people assume that if the defendant had done nothing wrong that he wouldn't be there. This is not changed by official declarations to the contrary.

The Innocence Project is kept busy, not as a result of jury decisions, but of procedural misconduct in trials racial bias in prosecution and defense, and denial of Constitutional Rights. George has suffered from none of these.

Many of the cases the Innocence Project takes on are ones where (at least initially) the state genuinely believed the person who was convicted was guilty. But prosecutors don't like their wins to go away. So the wrongly convicted need help.

If a juror has pre-determined guilt or not guilty, then that juror will be excused from serving.

That's the official line again. The way this has been in the news, that would result in Zimmerman being released because it is impossible to impanel a jury. There is no one over the age of 18 in this country who has not decided whether he thinks Zimmerman is guilty or not. And that includes both you and me.

Looks like you are busy manufacturing excuses for his conviction before it has even happened. Just can't deal with the probability that he will be convicted on the evidence in the case, can you?

I am realistic. I believe that the government is railroading Mr. Zimmerman. But I am also aware that the government is sufficiently powerful to do so successfully. Is it really your belief that when the federal or any state or local government decides to convince a jury that an innocent man is guilty and fakes the evidence to do so that the wrongly accused can overpower that and still win an acquittal? I don't believe that Zimmerman will be convicted on legitimate evidence because there isn't any. But I believe the government is powerful enough to convict an innocent man when the officials get to lie with impunity.

Zimmerman messed up big time and think bs'ing will get him a free man he is mistaken he knows damn good and well he murdered treyvon (if that is how his name is spelled)

Poor Little Trayvon, went for the gun, but Zimmerman got "wrist control" on him and pulled the gun first, oh well, one down.

Put June 10th on your calendar, Steve. That marks the day of the beginning of the process sending George Zimmerman to jail for 25-life.

Zimmerman is going to walk, the law is quite clear. Don't like it?, then change it, but Zimmerman has the LAW on his side, the thug attacked him, case closed.

TO: JCB-1236504 who wrote:

"Zimmerman is going to walk ...the thug attacked him, case closed."

Zimm is going to have to prove that he was attacked, and looking at the size of this guy compared to 115 pound teenager, I wouldn't buy it if I was a juror.

I think some folks are calling this kid a "thug" just because he was black, and I hope the jury sees it that way too.

I just don't like people going around killing other people, that's all.

The law doesn't allow you to follow someone from one side of their neighborhood to the other, first by vehicle, and then on foot, and then pull a gun and murder them. There is no evidence that Trayvon "attacked" anyone. Only a liar's word!

bye, bye georgie, bye bye.

he was 115 lbs. when he was 10, 165 when he made the biggest mistake of his life by

assaulting someone who in the eye of the law had every right to defend himself, oh thats right this nbc ,and the idiots who are going to have there day in court to , regarding there racist commentd

This was manslaughter at worst, and Zim will walk

You people are soooo brain dead... "poor kid"... "Poor kid" my a55! The pics have been everywhere, he WAS a thug. I see that a lot of people just refuse to accept it. C'mon people...

Stereotypes are there for a reason!! They ring VERY true!!

@JCB,

So the SYG law is "quite clear", eh. When did this come about? The two authors of the law, StSens Peadon and Baxley have both stated that there is no part of the law that applies to the Z/M case and that protecting shooters in such a situation was never the intent of the law.

And the 17-year-old "thug" was unarmed, minding his own business, lived in the gated community with his father, and did absolutely nothing to draw Z's attention or to confront him. Don't like the facts of the case, then make some up. Oooops, you already did that.

Jo-An since you know so much when are you testifying? Oh your not? Then shut it, you dont know if he lied or not, you just want to jump on the get him bandwagon. Trayvon was thuggy, and if your the neighborhood watch (which he was) then yes you do have the right to follow him. Truth is nobody knows what happened except the two people involved, a young man is dead and another one is fighting for his freedom, no winners here.

Ooooooh...trying to bully me into silence Gary?

Sorry it won't work!

There is no evidence Trayvon was anything but an average teenager. He had NO juvenile record, and no one has come forth to say anything bad about him...

The same CAN NOT be said of ZimmerMurderer...he was a thug, bully, child molester, and MURDERER!

I think he is not guilty and was defending himself.. Even if he is acquitted his life is ruined.. He will never be able to get a job or walk the streets again.. I would bet there are several teen aged gang bangers just waiting to kill him for the notoriety.. All the hype and federal involvement has escalated this self defense case to what it is, a living nightmare.. Involvement by federal prosecutors just shows that the federal government is meddling in Florida state justice system.. The bottom feeding lawyers are just wanting to get more money in the donation jar before they go forward.. I would hope that after a not guilty verdict that the Zimmerman's sue as many people as they can for defamation and what ever else they can..

@American Girl-724855

Zimm is going to have to prove that he was attacked, and looking at the size of this guy compared to 115 pound teenager, I wouldn't buy it if I was a juror.

Don't know where you came up with 115 pounds, but that's way off. 17 year old girls might weigh that, but there's no 17 year old boys that weigh 115 pounds unless there's a severe medical problem. Whether or not you would buy that as a juror is moot, as you're apparently not mentally fit to get on a jury!

Gary - the thug was clearly Zimmerman not Trayvon. Trayvon was a kid who did nothing to get killed for.

WildRedd - not even mildly true. Zimmerman is a thug and always has been and now he's a murderer!

Gary

If you have been following the case closely it is a fact that when he was finally arrested he told 5 different stories about what happened. He lied in court (really stupid) as did his wife about the money they were cyphoning from the legal account that was set up for him. So all we have is his lies to go on cause the person you call"a thug" without knowng him at all and not hearing his side of the story cause he is dead at the hands of Zimmerman. I cannot believe he was not kept in jail until the trial. Here in Canada if you are charged with 2nd degree murder you are jailed immediately until the trial is over. He has been treated with kid gloves. Again if you have been following closely you will see that Zimmerman was given 67,000.00 last year for living expenses (do you get that) and there was thousands given for protection and on it goes - that is why they are running out of money. He killed someone and he admitted to that and is hiding behind this SYG law there and he is living large and Trayvon didnt even make it to his 18th birthday today. Something just doesnt sit right with me with how things are being handled. But it doesnt matter what I think - the jury has to decide on his fate and we have to accept it just like we had to do with Casey Anthony. But I am allowed to have my opinions on this case and I think he is guilty as sin.

Old dog,

Taryvon Martin didn't weigh 115lbs, but as a high school wrestler, I competed at 119lbs, 126lbs and 132lbs. I was 5'8" as a freshman. Never any medical conditions, severe or not.

So your theory is bogus.

I'd have to question your mental fitness as well.

Who are the beneficiaries of the Trayvon Martin Foundation?
Can't wait for the actual facts to come out instead of conjecture in June OR November. Let justice be served in whatever form it comes.

OldDog47, according to the coroner's report, Martin was 5'11" and weighed 158 lbs., so tall and rather skinny. Zimmerman outweighed him by approximately 40 lbs. By the way, because American Girl724855 was incorrect in the weight of Martin hardly means she's "mentally unfit to get on a jury" and there was no need to be so rude. Since you assumed she was mentally unfit because of an honest mistake, then there must be a whole lot of mentally unfit folks out there...including yourself, unless you're perfect and have never been mistaken about anything. Why don't you try talking to people civilly without being so nasty?

Trayvon Martin Memorial Foundation

DEDICATED TO HELPING AMERICAN TEENAGERS
ATTAIN THEIR ASPIRATIONS
WITHOUT REGARD TO RACIAL ETHNICITY

HELP US TO HELP OUR TEENAGERS MEET TODAYS CHALLENGES

DRUGS-VIOLENCE-PROFILING

HELP US KEEP THEM IN SCHOOL AND OFF THE STREETS

WITH "THE CHALLENGE"

THE TRAYVON MARTIN MEMORIAL FOUNDATION, INC.
P.O. BOX 380579
MIAMI, FL 33138

Trayvon was 6' - 160lbs at autopsy. No prior criminal record, A-B student who had just turned 17 a month earlier. He was a normal teen described by friends and acquaintances as amiable and a regular guy and though he had some petty trouble at school the closest as he got to being a thug was Facebook fashion statements. He was walking back from a convenience store between 7 and 8 at night to the apartment in the complex where he was staying with his father, father's girlfriend and the girlfriend's young son. He was carrying ice tea and candy he had bought and talking on the phone to his girl friend when he noticed he was being followed by Zimmerman.

That's all we know for certain...the rest is Zimmerman's account which has changed several times.

Gaining weight might be a strategy of the defense, people will look at the fat zimmerman and they will not believe that zimmerman ran down a black kid. zimmerman looks like he couldnt outrun Tyne Daly the way he looks today.

Q: Why is it that all the people who call Trayvon a 'thug' are the same losers who depise the president?

A: Because they are right wing nut jobs who watch Faux News. That's why.

culheath, actually, according to coroner's report, Trayvon was 5'11" and 158 lbs, but you're close. I agree with everything else you said and hope there's justice for this young man and his family. As far as his manner of dress, my sons sometimes wore the most gawd awful get-ups when they were teenagers, whatever the "style" of the day was, but were never considered "thugs" and are now fine young men of whom I'm extraordinarily proud. It's a shame when people are judged by the clothes they wear. Guess I better warn my grandma about those hoodies she wears.

American Girl

Zimmerman doesnt have to prove "anything". It's the prosecution that has to prove that he is guilty. Right now .....Zimmerman is Innocent. Unless the phrase used in all cases "innocent until proven guilty" has been put on the back burner for this particular case.

And no.....I am not picking any sides (just stating a fact). I will go along with whatever the court decides since they are the ones that will have ALL the facts (prosecution and defense). Some people on here dont feel a trial is necessary.....they have him convicted already or going free.

Scott64

culheath, actually, according to coroner's report, Trayvon was 5'11" and 158 lbs, but you're close.

Thanks for the correction...appreciate it.

Gary-3017851:

Trayvon was thuggy, and if your the neighborhood watch (which he was) then yes you do have the right to follow him.

Nope; not Trayvon. The evidence shows George was the one thugged out as a teen -his thuggy facebook account, his thuggy police and court records prove that; along with his court ordered intervention program for substance abuse; not to mention his thuggy relationships with the females (from childhood "fingerings" to his adult domestic violence issues). Evidence (Taaffe, his road dog, among it) also indicates George was still thugging in 2012 as a vigilante looking for burglars & wound up chasing this kid contrary to the "don't follow, do not confront, just watch and report" policy of the neighborhood watch program; and the whole slew of lies he told to the police and court in this case to cover up the crime so he can get away with murder. George is thugged out from way back -now he has committed a murder which there is more than enough evidence to prove; he's going down.

Truth is nobody knows what happened except the two people involved

I know you wish that to be true, but it's not -because a mountain of evidence indicates that George Zimmerman made all the aggressive false assumptions, spoke hostile words, showed the aggressive hostile attitudes and took all the aggressive, hostile actions about and toward Trayvon before the controntation even started -it's recorded; then he got out of the car and made all the aggressive hostile actions that took him step by aggressive step to the point of the conflict; then during the conflict he's the only one with a weapon shooting a kid he outweighed by 50 pounds -and actually going down between the houses 40 feet with the kid after he said the kid had attacked him near the T -George cannot justify going way down there after the kid started moving down the stem of the T toward his house; and the evidence further shows that even after shooting the poor kid in a location he cannot justify being at, George's aggression still went unabated by jumping on the fatally wounded kid's back, and putting his weight down on the dead victim. There's evidence for all that -George was the aggressor before, during and after the unnecessary confrontation and shooting. That's what the evidence indicates and tells us beyond a reasonable doubt -so you don't have to waste your time anymore hoping there's not enough evidence to convict George of murder 2. Sorry, but it's there.

a young man is dead and another one is fighting for his freedom, no winners here.

Certainly not.

'Sup, Mr. P!

Hey DOC! All is good -Zimmie is not going to hold this trial up with his tactics and the Ravens are Super Bowl champs. All is good.

Honestly people here are MORONS if they think following and accusting someone was right

Hi, MrP!

Gary, Trayvon was NOT a thug.

Trayvon was not a punk.

All of you just started calling Trayvon that when you found out about George's past history of being arrested for resisting a police officer and another time being fired as a bouncer for being violent with a drunk woman. George, in fact, was required by the court to take an anger management class.

And, of course, there is George's 2005 Facebook page where he talks about "his boys" taking a "rap" for him without "saying a word" and ratting on George.

Seems as if George is the real thug.

Here is an illustration of George's rage issues:

"Usually he was just a cool guy," said the former co-worker. "But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped……"He had a temper and he became a liability," the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. "One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted," he said. "It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out." (NY Daily News – March 29, 2012]

According to records, Zimmerman's ex-fiance filed a petition accusing him of pushing her in 2005. The Orlando Sentinel reported:

The court records concern a conflict between Zimmerman and his ex-fiancé, who filed a petition accusing Zimmerman of pushing her during an argument at her Orlando home in August 2005.

The woman reported Zimmerman had arrived at her home Aug. 8 and asked to talk. Later, when she asked him to leave, she said, he insisted on staying and demanded documents she had.

The woman said she offered to drop the papers off the following day, but Zimmerman became upset, took her cell phone and shoved her. A fight ensued, she said, and her dog bit Zimmerman's cheek.

more click> here

Here is what George's friend, Frank Taafee said about George:

“I think he had fed-up issues.

He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore,"

Hi YAHTC!

“I think he had fed-up issues...He was mad as hell and wasn't going to take it anymore,"...................(George's road dog Frank Taafee).

Yup; that is exactly how George went out of his way to play it out, and every bit of evidence in the case indicates Taafee was 100% correct in his assessment. I want Taafee on the stand too; let him explain his book and comments!

American Girls post / TO: JCB-1236504 who wrote:

"Zimmerman is going to walk ...the thug attacked him, case closed."

Zimm is going to have to prove that he was attacked, and looking at the size of this guy compared to 115 pound teenager, I wouldn't buy it if I was a juror.

I think some folks are calling this kid a "thug" just because he was black, and I hope the jury sees it that way too.

What planet do you live on? Zimmerman AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT was 5'7" 180lbs, Martin was listed at his school as 6ft and 163 lbs. and Trayvon was not "living" with his Dad, he was being moved between his parents and grandparents because he was having "thug" related issues at his school. Did Zimmerman break his own nose?, beat his own back of his head in? You people are ridiculous and absurd, this guy is gong to walk, period.

George was 205 pounds.

Trayvon had none of George's DNA and none of George's blood on his hands or lower sleeves. This forensic evidence proves that Trayvon did NOT punch or slammed George's head into the pavement and Trayvon did NOT smother George by covering George's mouth and nose with his hands.

you are full of sh.. my friend, everything you wrote is complete fantasy. google George Zimmerman's weight and height at the time of the date of the incident. and your DNA BS will be proven completely wrong at the trial. only a moron would believe anything that you just wrote.

yeah, the tooth fairy beat up Zimmerman and broke his nose, and then flew off to the moon. sell stupid elsewhere pal, we're full up on here already.

hey thoughtful comments, just for you pal....are your pants on fire pal???

Trayvon had none of George's DNA and none of George's blood on his hands or lower sleeves. This forensic evidence proves that Trayvon did NOT punch or slammed George's head into the pavement

New George Zimmerman evidence: Details on Trayvon's DNA on Zimmerman and vice versa

3:48 p.m. EST, September 19, 2012|

By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

State evidence released today in the George Zimmerman second-degree murder case shows new details from a state crime lab that found Zimmerman's DNA on Trayvon Martin, the teenager he shot to death, and Trayvon's DNA on him.

Not on his hands or the sleeves of his sweatshirt, Chuckles!

Post the link to your nonsense!

Wow - that's funny JCB - because the ACTUAL autopsy report and forensic RESULTS can be found on gzlegal.com (you know - O'Mara's website) that state that NO DNA or BLOOD was found on Trayvon's hands or his shirt sleeves. There's alot more in those evidence dumps that prove that the Zimbeciles wouldn't be able to tell the truth if it was on tape and narrated by Dale Earnhardt Jr.

CC and Jo-An, on a different subject:

Click> Featuring: Lonnie Starr Explains Why Dee Dee is Credible and I ...

Here is an excerpt of what you will be reading about:

Featuring: Lonnie Starr Explains Why Dee Dee is Credible and I Explain Witness Tampering

Thursday, February 7, 2013

Lonnie Starr is starring in today’s Featuring feature. Day in and day out, he skins the onion with solid comments that systematically peel back layer after layer of the defendant’s lies destroying his claim of self-defense.

I follow with an explanation of the excited utterance and present sense exceptions to the hearsay rule and a short explanation why the use of doxing and character assassination of Dee Dee constitutes first degree witness tampering, punishable by up to life in prison.

My thought exactly. Maybe on top of a defense fund they have a donuts fund. He's packing on the pounds. It'll be good to get this trial going. Too much speculation from everyone with little facts.

His wife was quite the plus-sized beauty, too. It's no wonder that he spent his evenings outside on neighborhood patrols instead of staying at home. (Tip O' the day: If you want to lose weight and save money, then buy fresh fruits, vegetables and lean meants. Don't waste your waist, and your money, on frozen foods and packaged foods.)

Nooooooooo, striped ties make people look fatter than they really are.

yeah, maybe he'll slim back down once he's Bubba's girl... back in jail

It may be a tactic. If he's fat, slow, and out of shape, how could he have chased Martin? How could he have been a threat to Martin?

He won't be Bubba's girl ... he'll be home... where he should be!

I read somewhere that he's broke. Here I was thinking that it was the lawyer's killing him financially, Nope! it was the food.

Does this tie make me look fat? No, the fat makes you look fat,

WildRedd - in your dreams. He'll be in jail - hopefully for life - which is where he belongs for committing murder!

He won't be Bubba's girl ... he'll be home... where he should be!

Nope. Zinnamon Buns will be on the menu at the Florida State Pen, lol. And Bubba will be sharing.

He'll have plenty of time to work off that lard in the Yard.

On those meals he's going to be fed in the pokey, he'll be losing alot of lard soon enough.

He won't be Bubba's girl ... he'll be home... where he should be!

Nope. Zinnamon Buns will be on the menu at the Florida State Pen, lol. And Bubba will be sharing.

Yup! Bubba will be sharing Zimmie's big hips for a price -probably 5 or six packs! Zimmie may not be attractive to us -but for bubba? Oh my Goodness! zimmies hips is sexy as hell in this picture -matter of fact; they wish they could get ahold of old as Omara too -but Omara knows not to come within ther're reach. But Zimmie can't help it. Oh my God; I cannot wait until Zi9mmie tries to explain what he did in the prison to the rest of the inmates. Especially with those thick hips he has now -a Black woman has nothing on thick leggeged Zimmie!

Especially with those thick hips he has now -a Black woman has nothing on thick leggeged Zimmie!

Hmmmm...Most of the inmates that they keep in cages seem to be black and seem to like that kind of thing (most of them have homosexual tendencies), but thats not to be unexpected, after all, dont animals who commit violent crimes belong in cages so they cant harm actual humans?

The probability of George getting a Black cellmate is extremely high, then. I can't wait.

State of Awareness,

" portray Zimmerman as an innocent man"

and

"would prove that Zimmerman is innocent"

Like it or not, he is innocent until proven guilty. He doesn't have to prove he's innocent. The prosecution has to prove he's guilty.

You and I don't know what really happened, what kind of evidence will be admitted or withheld and both sides have contributed in making this a case that, for the most part, where he has already been tried and convicted or tried and aquitted in the eyes of most of the public.

From the start the media made this out to be racially motivated rather than what it really was. A wannabee playing supercop pursuing his version of street justice. I don't think Zimmerman will or can be convicted of 2nd degree murder and filing that charge was a bad mistake, but I do think he should pay a hefty price for taking the life of another.

I never stated what I believed in regards to his innocence or being guilty. If he is innocent, his defense and Zimmerman's own actions since this all started have been defeating what they wanted to portray or show. Yes, he is innocent until proven guilty, but the way he and his defense team have been bungling up their side of things, it makes it seem different, especially with the lying he and his girlfriend provided concerning their financial status. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, but his defense team alone has dragged this out long enough. I've been ignoring the media's take on this whole thing because the media always plays to one side or another as a form of entertainment or to make something more than what it is. I am not claiming to know what happened nor do I know, as you have stated. But I am commenting on the defense's actions of failing to focus on their job of collecting themselves for the trial instead of pandering to the media, promoting websites to fund Zimmerman's defense and whatever else they have done. They've wasted so much energy on endeavers that they have created their own baggage that they have to now work around in order to get their job done. they've had about a year to get their information mostly compiled. They have asked for delays, a new judge, and made claims about the prosecution all too slow things up. And, as I have stated, it doesn't help that Zimmerman himself has done things that have thrown a wrench into the defense team's plans.

State,

Thanks for clearing that up. I obviously missed your point. After reading your reply, I'd have to agree.

State,

Thanks for clearing that up. I obviously missed your point. After reading your reply, I'd have to agree.

Not a problem.

The evidence and gz's own statements incriminate gz.

Nope - the Constitution does not say he is "Innocent until Proven guilty"; it says he is merely "presumed" to be by the court until he's tried and convicted; doesn't mean he's not guilty as we speak before the trial. If he did it he's guilty, from the moment he did it; and if he didn't do the dirty deed he's not guilty.

I'll betcha he gets a tat before he sheds a pound.

Yep, to go with that Hispanic gang related tat he already has.

RedRover, I believe he already has what are termed "drama" tats, in addition to others, which in some areas of the country are gang related symbols.

Zimmerman will never go to prison. He'll be convicted, then commit suicide in his holding cell like the coward he is.

I'm betting he eats his daddy's gun before going to trial -as soon as he's advised by his lawyers that he better cop out since he has left the defense team with not a single shred of exculpatory evidence to corraborate his version(s) or incriminate Trayvon Martin with. George's team has nothing to defend him with; nothing evidence wise to counter the mountain of incriminating evidence the prosecution is going to march out.

Riots will rage only for those who do not believe in the constitution where we are innocent until proven guilty. just my thought

Rob_G precisely.

I'd be very surprised if he walks after all the things he's been caught doing after the initial shooting. But, if he's found to be not guilty by the jury, then people should respect the decision.

I'd like to think I'd have enough sense not to lie to the judge the way that GZ has been lying to the judge.

The riots will happen no matter the verdict.

If he is found guilty,RIOT because 'WE WON'!

If he is found innocent,RIOT because 'WE LOST'!

Slodon, careful, your bigotry is showing.

And he will be found innocent

Lighten up Frank, In Chicago the west side was ablaze during the Micheal Jordan Bulls' heyday win or lose. Slodon is right,that's a fact. Just like George Zimmerman has a fat ass,a fact. Unless you said that about Michelle Obama then you'd be a bigot,right?

I wear mine on the front of my shirt Frank... everyday... there will be riots, either way!! Slodon is right, just wait. Also, so is Had Enough.

Slodon and WildRedd are absolutely correct. There will most likely be riots regardless of the outcome. Don't believe me, come to Sanford and go for a stroll down 13th street, 3rd street, 46A and a handful of other streets in this town. It isn't hard to imagine. Not being racist, just being realistic. Just watch for the rabble rousers of Jackson and Sharpton leading the charge. This was never a racial issue until they said it was. Idiots.

And he will be found innocent

There is no such thing as a finding of "innocence". And, George has already admitted to killing an unarmed teen. The only question remaining is to what degree he will be held culpable.

Slodon and WildRedd are absolutely correct. There will most likely be riots regardless of the outcome. Don't believe me, come to Sanford and go for a stroll down 13th street, 3rd street, 46A and a handful of other streets in this town. It isn't hard to imagine. Not being racist, just being realistic. Just watch for the rabble rousers of Jackson and Sharpton leading the charge. This was never a racial issue until they said it was. Idiots.

Must be a horrible existence to live with such paranoia every day.

This was never a racial issue until they said it was. Idiots.

This was a racial incident from the minute Zimmerman profiled Martin as a black kid in a hoodie and therefore a threat to the community.

It also helps to live in mid-Florida and be cognizant of the good ol' boy culture and history of the area in terms of looking at the probabilities of what went down and why. And no I'm not saying Zimmerman is a racist, though I am saying he profiled Martin in a racial manner...just as many posters are quick to profile Martin from a distance and assert he was a thug, when there is no evidence of that whatsoever...in fact, the evidence indicates he was not a thug at all.

Maybe he's one of those people who eat when they're stressed!

Looks to me like George just eats, period. For any excuse. Shelly, too.

Or one of those people who eats when the eats are free from all the donations.

The prison food will be free for him too -just a lot less portion-wise, and certainly a lot less than lavish.

For him, and shellie too.

Are they walking free?

Guess you've never heard of reasonable doubt... all it takes is one jurer to not buy the "trial by media"... or Obama-the-Idiot jumping to the "Jesse Jackson Universal Conclusion" about Trayvon (assumed innocent despite rap sheet) at the beginning....

*Sigh*

Can you guys have a single thought without finding something to blame Obama for? He has nothing to do with this.

Fed up is sooooo right... all it takes is 1.

@Fedup,

Just to set the record straight: Martin had NO "rap sheet." He had never been charged with or convicted of any crime whatsoever. Not even a misdemeanor on his record. The one with the rap sheet was Zimmerman who had difficulties with domestic and public violence, including an altercation with a cop.

It is a lot better to keep quiet and have people think you are a poorly educated, badly informed idiot than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Why were charges not brought for TM's vandelism and drug use at school? Not even an adult yet.

Yea, TM was on the right track.

Because writing on a locker with a marker and having an empty baggie that may have contained marijuana are not things schools involve the police in because they aren't crimes.

Justice will be served. Zimmerman will walk and Travon will have received his justice. the justice of his own making.

If you are going to play the bad asp, be ready to die the bad asp.

No way will Zimmerman walk, Crowbar. You obviously have not read the evidence.

The evidence does NOT back up gz’s claim of being attacked, punched in the face, and having his head slammed on the pavement…. What the forensic evidence shows is that Trayvon did NONE of those things……….NONE of gz’s blood or DNA was found on Trayvon’s hands.

GZ did not shoot Trayvon in self defense…….gz told investigator Serino that he had wrist control of Trayvon when he shot Trayvon dead.

Also, gz lied when he said that Trayvon tried to smother gz with one hand on gz’s nose and the other hand on gz’s mouth. This is a lie because forensics showed that Trayvon had none of gz’s DNA on his hands.

If gz had been on the bottom, the blood trails from gz’s 2 lacerations would NOT have been running downward as shown in the photos. In fact, that blood would have been SMEARED on the back of gz’s head.

As LLMPapa pointed out “the justice train is coming for gz” who has a history of being a bully (at CarMax), molester (according to his cousin), a liar, and a thug (see 2005 Facebook @ using his boys).

In addition, gz had rage issues:

“Usually he was just a cool guy,” said the former co-worker. “But it was like Jekyll and Hyde. When the dude snapped, he snapped……“He had a temper and he became a liability,” the newspaper quoted the former co-worker as saying. “One time this woman was acting a little out of control. She was drunk. George lost his cool and totally overreacted,” he said. “It was weird, because he was such a cool guy, but he got all nuts. He picked her up and threw her. It was pure rage. She twisted her ankle. Everyone was flipping out.” (NY Daily News – March 29, 2012]

yahtc

GZ had grabbed TM's wrist, care to elaborate some more as to how this means GZ had total control of TM. And remember, the idea of wrist control or a wrist lock was brought up by the detective doing the interview not by GZ.

Lack of DNA evidence does not mean that TM did not attack GZ. That would be like saying GZ was not there because his DNA was not found.

The photos were taken after GZ was vertical, duh.

After placing GZ's life under a microscope you found that he had girlfriend problems, he got in trouble with the law for defending a friend, he doesn't like drunks acting stupid and he is a guy acting like a guy. Now how much sht has TM done in his short 16yrs and a few months?

I don't think you understand wrist control, kpm. It is a "hold" technique.

Here is a link with a person demonstrating various wrist control techniques:

Click>Wrist Manipulations, Guardian Self Defense - YouTube

.

.

Here is the transcript from Investigator Serino's interview (Tape 1- February 29, 2012) with gz:

Serino: Compact? And you were able to overpower him as far as holding his wrist, you gained wrist…we call it wrist control…you gained wrist control on him basically, and you were able to basically liberate both hands…
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.

.

.
Serino: OK. You raised it up. Do you remember hitting him with the pistol?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: Distance wise…
Zimmerman: I just remember not wanting to hit my own hand, I was holding his, it went past my hand, my body.

.

Here is the audio of this interview:

Click>Audio Recorded Interview with Investigator Serino on February 29 (Part 1)

Here, you can see that gz emphasized that gz was holding Trayvon's hand and, in fact had so much control of Trayvon that gz had the time and control to carefully avoid hitting his own hand as he fired his gun at Trayvon's heart.

I might have kicked your butt, too...but the inciting incident is all your fault.

I have seen others say the same thing. So you would all end up shot, killed & buried too? Maybe some people should learn that this day & time, lots of people packing pistols. It may be a good idea to keep your hands to yourself unless you are having to fight for your life. Some people just are NOT going to take an ass whipping & like it.

Deerhunterbow1, don't you think that's a compelling reason for gun reforms? The fact that there are mentally unstable cowards out there that think they're above the law?

Perhaps when GZ goes down trying to use the stand your ground defense that people will start to realize that you don't get to use deadly force just because you're a coward. You can't start stuff and expect to walk.

Ah Liberal name calling... how special...

First, it would appear that the mentally unstable people are liberals... they're the ones who can't behave in groups (Occupy [fill in the blank])... they're the ones who are responsible for all the mass shootings lately.... 85,000,000 law abiding gun owners didn't hurt anyone this month... unlike the Obamabots in Urban Welfare Ghetto PLantations who murder rape and rob daily... protecting yourself from those vicious value-less fatherless monsters surely isn't cowardice.. it's just good sense

the real lesson here... cretins all over Fla learned that if you wail on someone you could get your sorry a$$ shot.... stand your ground WAS gun reform...

Cretins in Florida already knew that, because 80% of the cretins in Florida are carrying a gun if they so much as leave their home to go to the mailbox.

Name calling, eh?

Obamabots...Urban Welfare Ghetto Plantations...vicious valueless fatherless monsters... cretins

Pot, meet kettle.

Justin - your post says more about you than it does about anyone else. And, none of what it says is good!

Fed Up-2683606:

unlike the Obamabots in Urban Welfare Ghetto PLantations who murder rape and rob daily...

Nothing to do with Trayvon.

protecting yourself from those vicious value-less fatherless monsters surely isn't cowardice.. it's just good sense

Too bad George didn't find one of these monsters you speak about to shoot; had he done soo he might not be on trial for shooting a kid that has nothing to do with your hate-filled rants; nope, you've said nothing that applies to this case, George or Trayvon.

Seeking

Did you not see that my post was quoting fedup, and that I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy of accusing others of name calling, then doing the same? What exactly does that say about me?

It says you are a good mother phucker! that's what!

I even like your ugly picture -how about that?

You are a good dude, Justin; I listened to everything you said. I know.

Seeking and you are on the same side, I believe.

What are you'all fighting about?

Thanks, Mr Perryvine. I was trying to point out the same, that we are on the same side and there must have been some misunderstanding.

And the picture, as much as it does look like me, is a mug shot of a guy that got a DWI with a baby zebra and a talking parrot in the car with him.

southerndiver

You are correct. It may get ugly.

AGREED

Zimmerman did not stay in his car when the 911 operator told him to! He got out and pursued Martin on foot! Get your facts straight!

Too bad the evidence shows differently!

Can't wait till June 10th so you uninformed people can see the actual evidence, not the far right wing bloggers evidence.

The operator didn't tell him to do anything, he just said he didn't have to.

southerndriver - he did not got back to his car, he clearly chased Treyvon on foot. What happened to Treyvons right to protect himself? It is not against the law to be in somebody elses neighborhood; especially if you are visiting your father who lives in that same damn neighborhood.

I will give Mr. Zimmerman a little slack in that I do not think it was premeditated murder but he is flat out guilty of manslaughter and no one with a fair mind can say other wise.

It is against the law its called harassment. You are not within your right to ask me anything or stop me if i am not on your property the only thing you have a right to do is call the police that's it.

Trayvon fought back when Zimmerman was stalking and harassing him. Trayvon was exercising his right to self defense. Zimmerman started the whole thing.

Somebody... needs to quit talking sh!t just because they can ban people they see fit.

What the dispatcher said wasn't an order! As a matter of fact, what they say means NOTHING, they're not an officer of the law, it wasn't an order.

We'll see... I will laugh when he is free & the riots begin!

WildRed - you are one sick puppy dog!!! So you are going to laugh when the riots start. Sure glad you dont live in my country.

What the dispatcher said wasn't an order! As a matter of fact, what they say means NOTHING, they're not an officer of the law, it wasn't an order.

Oops! Another wrong Zimmie Zealot. A dispatcher at the Sanford Police Station indeed carries the authorization to issue directives to anyone they are on the phone with.

SHar - check out WildRedd's posts and you'll see he's sick!

Ooops! No directive to cease and desist was issued. But anyway GZ followed the advice, TM did not.

kpm58 - Zimmerman DID NOT follow advice of the dispatcher. Trayvon got no advice since he was talking with his girlfriend when attacked by Zimmerman!

No directive to cease and desist was issued.

There was a directive.

But anyway GZ followed the advice

Had GZ followed the directive, he would have been back by the mailboxes where he stated he was when he left his vehicle, not mere yards from Trayvon Martin's back door.

"We don't need you to do that"

That is a highly declarative authoritative statement? LMAO

George could have been back to his vehicle (even after getting the address on RVC) BEFORE he hung up his call with the NEN dispatcher.

It is all laid out in the following links with the conclusion link summarizing the others.

Click> A Walk With Marinade Dave

Click> A Walk With Marinade Dave, Part Deux

Click> A Walk With Marinade Dave, Part Trois

Click> A Walk With Marinade Dave, The Conclusion

And TM could have been back in his home.

But instead, TM decided to ambush, attack and try and kill GZ.

Or you could have just licked your water bowl, you doggy trash!

don't try to be intelligent now.

This is the United States of America -( I do not know if you know what that means (but for your information it is serious shyt!) when anyone decides to walk to the store they know their child is safe -even from dirty vigilantes, like Zimmerman. Then we get him

So a person concerned about crime in their neighborhood is a vigilante.

I guess a person who reports a crime is a snitch.

And Neighborhood Watch is a violation of civil rights of criminals, real or potential.

Thoughtful

Nice links. Walking the walk and talking the talk. Can't wait for GZ to perjure himself again.

kpm58

"We don't need you to do that"

And exactly how would you interpret that directive, kpm?

Reasonable people see it as:

"We" (the Sanford Police Dept.), "don't need you to" (do not need you to attempt to do a job assigned to law enforcement and not armed citizens) "do that" (chase after a kid through the neighborhood, as George had just admitted to doing).

And TM could have been back in his home.

He could have been. Had George Zimmerman not made the decision to profile, chase down, and kill him. Which is what makes the case a murder 2, and why George Zimmerman is going to prison.

Steve R.-1932888

Maybe they are going to do a Hillary. "What does it even matter at this point?"

Too bad he doesn't have Jackie's talent. He might be able to entertain Bubba in more than one way.

Right DOC; it worked for Richard Pryor who said he kept the prisoners laughing just to keep their minds off the booty. :-)

According to the car max dude, Zimmie had some comedic skills when he made the co-workers laugh at his impersonations making mockery of the mid-eastern guy on the job. But, I do not think Bubba will find Zimmie's mockery of the mid-eastern dude very funny.

no no the woman abusing gangbanger got executed. saved the system a ton of money. thats where he woulld have ended up anyway.

We should just start executing all the kids who might grow up to be thugs and save the taxpayers a lot of money. Got kids, Glock?

The woman abusing THUG was in court today!

Good idea SoxFan, they should be executed before they turn!! It would save alot of "free" money. I'm a huge believer in Eugenics!! It's brilliant & should still be done!!

WildRedd - your swastika is showing!

jbryd24 - WildRedd's post show a total lack of anything resembling a brain. Do you think he sleeps in his white hood at night?

Yup, Jo an! The woman abusing thug! Zimmerman!

I'm just wondering how you think Zimmerman knew that Martin had a criminal record before he shot him.

As far as Martin being bigger and stronger, it's pure speculation. Martin was a skinny bean pole based on a photo taken of him days before he was killed. So what Martin had on Zimmerman in height Zimmerman more than made up for in weight.

Self defense only applies when somebody else starts it. You don't get to start something and then claim self defense when you can't hack it.

I've seen nothing to suggest that GZ didn't start this. He was advised to stay in his vehicle and let the police handle it. He chose, to leave the safety of his vehicle to follow Trayvon.

So, no, he didn't have every right to fear for his life. The only reason there was a confrontation at all was because GZ started it.

Oh, and BTW, graffiti, marijuana use and theft are not normally considered to be violent crimes. It makes a huge difference. But, then again, clearly only the media can leave things out. It's not like the RWNJ have their own agenda.

He had not been charged with any kind of felonies, and, George Zimmerman or you do not have the right to pass judgement like that on this person on that night just for looking scary. I think someone walking around caring a glock looks pretty scary too.

TRAYVON Martin did NOT have a criminal record!

Stop spreading LIES!

The photo the news media kept putting out was a photo of the Martin kid at 12 years old. He was as big as a bad guy can get when he was confronted by the neighborhood watch guy.

Yeah? I bet Georgie runs into quite a few bigger bad guys when he takes up residence at the state pen, lol.

And, neighborhood watch is just that, for the purpose of watching and reporting, not confronting. But thanks for showing that George was the aggressor.

I believe Zimmerman and I believe he had ever right to defend himself against a guy much stronger and bigger then himslef.

Better check the numbers. George was the bigger guy. And if you believe those lies, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you, lol.

He had every right to fear for his life. The Martin guy had a criminal record past, the media conviently leaves out all the bad stuff about Martin.

If he was in such fear, why did he get out of his vehicle and chase Trayvon Martin from one side of the neighborhood to the other? Doesn't sound like fear to me. Sounds like a wanna be cop thug trying to make a hero's name for himself.

DOCJT:

If he was in such fear, why did he get out of his vehicle and chase Trayvon Martin from one side of the neighborhood to the other? Doesn't sound like fear to me.

Right, even the cop told George that to his face on the audio recording, and George had no answer. And the rest of the evidence and recordings shows George was not afraid, he was pissed and wasn't going to take it anymore -and was bound and determined that he would not follow the dispatcher nor the Neighboorhood watch directives to not follow, not confront. George said, hell with that -I'm getting this kid. And he did. End of story.

Sounds like a wanna be cop thug trying to make a hero's name for himself.

Yup -otherwise known as "Vigilante".

Hi JO!

Jo-An-4354969

TRAYVON Martin did NOT have a criminal record!...

He sure didn't; they fingerprinted him at the scene and there was no record of his fingerprints even being in the criminal justice system. But they found the thug Zimmie's fingerprints in there without any trouble -especially that thugged out ugly mugshot of his where he looks exactly like Shellie; big & mean as hell, in that ugly orange jail jumpsuit.

Stop spreading LIES!

They can't help it Jo; they are ill-intentioned and have no good will or exculpatory evidence to spread for Zimmie, so ill-will and lies is better than nothing; at least to them it is. Still won't ssave Zimmie though. He's just Toast.

yeah i guess he should have let the 180 lb 17yo kick his ass into the pavement.

Glock, or perhaps exercised some judgment and not started something with a 180lbs., 17 year old kid. I get that you're some sort of internet toughie, but the fact is that discretion is the better part of valor. GZ could easily have let the police handle it and instead he used a weapon he wasn't supposed to even have to kill somebody that he shouldn't have stopped in the first place. The prosecutor might not be able to prove murder, but he'll likely be able to get a manslaughter conviction.

I have yet to see any evidence at all that TM would have broken into the car and dragged GZ out of it.

He might have been following him, but nowhere does it say that GZ attacked TM. Just because TM was pissed doesn't give him any right to attack GZ, thereby starting the confrontation.

yeah i guess he should have let the 180 lb 17yo kick his ass into the pavement.

You must be referring to another case. There was no 180 lb. 17 year old involved in the Zimmerman case.

Just because TM was pissed doesn't give him any right to attack GZ, thereby starting the confrontation.

I'm curious. How do you know TM was pissed? Did he tell you that?

The phone call to his girl friend is evidence of TM being pissed.

Oh? Where does it state in those transcripts that Martin stated he was pissed?

The description of how TM's voice changed when he was waiting to ambush GZ.

Care to share that with us, along with your credentials that would give you expertise in analyzing emotion in voice quality?

You need credentials in voice analysis. You do not have the common sense or enough interaction with people to know when a person is pissed from their voice changing in a conversation? LMAO

If you are that apathetic to voice and body language you should stay off the dark sreets of Chicago before your dumb luck runs out.

kpm58:

The description of how TM's voice changed when he was waiting to ambush GZ.

Too bad the girl is going to take the stand and say what she's already stated -Trayvon sounded scared when his voice changed. She heard it, so she knows better than you, plus her testimony is evidence in the case -yours is BS.

Yes, her testimony is evidence of the description of what she heard and placed in context with other forensic evidence and witness testimony it shows that TM was filled with anger while he waited in ambush to attack GZ.

LMAO...Dee Dee's testimony will show Trayvon was SCARED not "pissed", big difference. Trayvon THOUGHT he was SAFE behind the townhomes, close to his destination, and who should POP up AGAIN from no where? GEORGE!

Of course being scared, Trayvon did what ANYONE would do when confronted by some crazed nut that has just followed them from one side of the neighborhood to the other, he FOUGHT TO GET AWAY!

Evidence SHOWS Trayvon continued to try to get away.... his body was found some 40 more feet closer to home than where the fight started!

Forensic evidence shows Trayvon trying to get away, trying to get home... Forensic evidence shows Trayvon had NONE of GZ's DNA on his hands or sleeves.

Some people just can't resist making up evidence. June 10th will be here soon!

Dee Dee describes TM's voice as getting low and deep, his breathing heavy as he watches GZ approach from the distance to his ambush spot in the dark. Yes, TM was ready to fight and by the injuries to GZ's face and head did fight. But GZ did not fight back going by the lack of injuries to TM, until TM went for the gun. Then, fearing for his life, GZ fired a single shot and TM stopped his attack on GZ.

Good post, Jo-An.

You are 100% correct.

Click> That Train's Coming, George

Click> Denied

Click> A Mystery Solved!

kpm58 - you can't really believe the GZ story that he was jumped and had his head repeatedly bashed into concrete with Martin also reigning blows on his face, can you?

GZ has no defensive wounds and TM had no signs of punching someone in the head on his hands, along with none of GZ's dna anywhere on him, along with GZ saying TM had his hand over his mouth and nose. It's a ludicrous story if you actually look at the evidence. If someone's head is against concrete and one is throwing punches into the person's face with no defense (as GZ had no defensive wounds), TM's hands would have to have some damage to them, and then don't. If one's head is being bashed into a concrete walkway multiple times, it wouldn't simply have 2 little cuts. GZ's story does not pass the smell test. But then again, which story, as he's changed it a few times already, along with being shown as a liar in the courtroom.

I don't claim to know what happened that night but the story that GZ has told and changed does not fit with the evidence that has come out. You claim to know that TM waited and ambushed GZ - how do you know this, cause GZ said it?

Dee Dee said it.

I'm trying to understand what you're believing bro.

Are you believing what GZ said - cause he also said...TM had his hand on the gun and George was able to get it and then shot him...but none of TM's dna was found on the gun.

How do you know TM's body language that night, as the only picture of him that night you may have seen would be of him lying face down dead? Yet you're claiming to know what he did cause you have figured it out by how his voice sounded on the phone call? Really?

He could have been pissed and scared on the phone bro, regardless of that, GZ's changing stories don't match the physical evidence, but if I'm to understand your posts, you believe everything GZ has said and have no doubt he did the right thing throughout?

sleepinsadie

Ok, many people bring up the differences in GZ's statements made right after the events of that night and the statements made later during the re-inactment made during daytime.

Now it is possible that GZ was able to view everything that unfolded that night and remember it with precise time and occurred actions. But I do not think GZ has those abilities, his school records would seem to show otherwise.

I do think that GZ is like the average person and the main things prominent in his memory at first are seeing TM, getting attacked by TM and then using his gun. So in his first statements he is trying to put the whole picture of what occurred together in his mind and some of it is helped along by the detectives questions and statements. And then he again goes through the event in daytime, when he can see things he could not see when it was dark and after hearing things from others about what they saw, and with other memories surfacing, his mind is trying to put it all together. Are there differences, yes. But the main parts of both statements are the same.

He saw a suspicious person. He followed. He lost sight of the person. He was then ambushed and attacked. Then he defended his life when TM went for the gun.

kpm, no matter how YOU try to scramble and attempt a defense for a lying killer......the solid evidence with its forensics will DEFEAT all of your attempts.

sleepinsadie

I am not saying that TM's death was the only outcome. There are a thousand would haves, could haves, should haves in this tragic event. But GZ's actions before the ambush by TM are not illegal or unreasonable. GZ defending himself during the attack is not illegal or unreasonable. GZ using deadly force to protect his life when TM went for the gun is not illegal or unreasonable.

yahtc

How many different scenarios of what happened have you come up with, backed by your solid evidence?

With solid forensic evidence there should be only one.

Reasonable doubt.

Go put your sheet and rope back in the closet. No lynchings today.

My only issue with your response is that you wholly buy into GZ's stories - TM ambushed GZ, GZ defended himself, GZ used deadly force because TM went ambushed him and went for the gun...have you once stepped back and thought, what if GZ is lying? He has shown in his dealings with the court that he lies.

If what you described is what happened, then yes, that would be reasonable - but the evidence around the case and in GZ's ever-changing story don't support what you described.

Do you believe everything GZ has said because you believe TM was a punk/thug/whatever and therefore, he had to cause everything?

What "solid forensic evidence" are you looking at that support "Reasonable doubt"?

The solid forensic evidence from autopsy seem to show that TM had no injuries on his hands that correspond to continually punching someone in the head (especially someone who's head was against concrete and therefore, had no give...take a solid object, put it against concrete and punch it repeatedly - you'd have damage to your hands).

This link has the audio of Deedee's statement:

Click> Stalked

sleepinsadie

"you'd have damage to your hands"

Sorry but you are wrong to think that would occur in every case. Been there and done that. No damage to my hands.

Lies, lies, and more lies...

Dee Dee describes TM's voice as getting low and deep, his breathing heavy as he watches GZ approach from the distance to his ambush spot in the dark

Luckily embellishment WON'T be allowed in the courtroom. Give us Dee Dee's exact quote MUTT, go to her testimony, quote it, and give us the link. Your recollection and spin aren't worth the time it takes to respond to you.

Dee Dee never implied an "ambush", that is just your sick, warped, and twisted mind, spinning...

Bro, I've been in fights too and the only time I had no damage to my hands is if I didn't land any punches before things got broken up.

You're telling me that you've had someone's head against concrete and were continuously slamming punches into their head with them giving no defense (as GZ had no defensive wounds) and you had no damage to your hands whatsoever?

Sorry, I just can't buy that.

Also, there was none of GZ's dna on TM's hands - after continuously punching him in the head causing facial bleeding, grabbing his head and slamming it into concrete repeated and putting his hand over GZ's mouth and nose? That does not make sense.

Yes, sleepinsadie, this clown believes everything GZ says, because it is a racist mutt, that believes Trayvon had to be a punk, thug, because he was black. Go read it's other posts, all racist garbage, no substance, just spin. it's a sick peabrain.

Hello Jo-An...well, he's having an amicable back and forth with me on this, with no name calling or anything like that.

I come here to state my ideas/opinions and enjoy that others state their's - and am damn glad that there are people who see things differently than I do and will go back and forth sharing their ideas.

I'm not mad at it or him and make no judgement on anyone on here (I'm not here to call anyone sick or peabrained). Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe and if/when this goes to trial, we'll all see the outcome and still have our own ideas/thoughts/beliefs.

It's pushed me over the edge, I admit... :(

It follows me around barking, I have little scratches all over my legs, it keeps posting lies, even after being sent to the exact link disproving it's lies...I guess I'm exasperated with it's thick headed racism.

Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe and if/when this goes to trial, we'll all see the outcome and still have our own ideas/thoughts/beliefs.

:) Well said!

There it is. GZ is guilty because he is a racist. And anyone that thinks he may not be guilty is a racist. TM is dead only because of racism. And if GZ is not convicted, it is because of racism. Any and all other evidence be damned. What difference does the FBI investigation make? Sad.

Jo-An - believe me, I read the different posts around here and understand how people can get upset or "pushed over the edge". I just try to not take any of this personal, even if there is name calling or bs like that, as I'm pretty sure none of you even know who I am to make any judgements on me.

There are always going to be racists in the world, but they come in every color and from every walk of life.

The one thing you can count on is that after this trial, you'll have a bunch of people posting that the verdict was incorrect and a bunch of people saying "I told you so", no matter the outcome.

I know neither GZ or TM and wasn't there that night - the only comments I can make on them personally is:

TM - none, as he's deceased

GZ - what I've actually seen or read him say by video from police report or on police report and I don't find his stories matching each other or make sense.

kpm58 - I never said that.

Though I will say that I think GZ decided to follow TM due to his race, as I fully believe that if it was a white or hispanic 17 year old with a hoodie on, GZ would not have followed him, due to the previous issues in the community.

sleepinsadie

No comments about racism were directed at you. You have been very civil in the discussion of this tragic event. Others though seem to jump right to attacking the poster when any disagreement is brought up to their position on a subject.

kpm58 - hey bro, like I said, I appreciate that someone with a different view than I have wants to go back and forth with their thoughts with me...and be civil about it.

Hell, if I only went back and forth with people who agree with or think as I do, life would be pretty boring and I'd probably stop learning or trying to learn new things.

While I don't know everything that went down that night and let's face, we'll all never know as we can only get one side of the story. I'm always curious in a case such as this to hear other's thoughts/ideas, as one different than mine could very well get me to see something new/differently.

One thing that sticks out to me is that GZ has no defensive wounds - you sound like you've been in a scrape or two (as have I in younger days) and can't imagine someone attacking me and me not defending myself or having some hand issues myself returning punches. That doesn't make sense to me.

sleepin sadie

I do not know if GZ would have been suspicious of TM's actions if he had been not black, though I think the 9-11 call implies that GZ was suspicious before he knew the race of TM, due to the hoodie. And a fact is that the community had been troubled by crimes committed by young black men. That is one of the reasons the NWA was started. But the FBI did not find GZ to be acting with racist hate.

sleepinsadie

The "no defensive wounds" is odd. I would have been fighting back. But it seems that GZ did not really fight back. He only tried to push TM's hands away from his face or tried to grab TM's arms/hands to keep from getting hit, while trying to get out from under TM. I think that it shows that GZ was in no way looking for a fight or wanting to hurt TM. But everything changed when TM went for GZ's gun.

Didn't say he was acting with racist hate - just saying I think he did profile in his following.

I know why the NWA was started, I've read the stories...just as I know someone in the neighborhood watch group is not supposed to carry a gun or initiate contact.

Ok - I understand your view on the "no way looking for a fight or wanting to hurt TM"...I just happen to not agree with it. I think protecting yourself would be an involuntary response in that type of situation. I also don't necessarily buy into the "he only tried to push his hands away", as if someone is throwing punches on your face/head and you are trying to push their hands away, I'd think there would be some defensive wounds or sprained fingers or something and there just aren't, and there would have to be some dna swap if TM really did have his hands over GZ's mouth/nose as GZ described. As for TM going for GZ's gun, GZ himself said TM got ahold of it but there was none of TM's dna on it, so then one has to decide - is GZ telling the truth or not? While you lean towards yes with that, I lean towards no.

sleepinsadie

Ok, you say profiled, which is not illegal by a non-LEO. I say that TM fit some descriptions of persons who had committed crimes in the community. GZ was made suspicious by TM's actions. GZ called 9-11. Is it unreasonable (I am not saying it is always the smartest thing) to follow someone you have reported to the police in order to point out to the police who they are?

sleepinsadie

The DNA or lack of, is a question. How the body was handled and the enviroment that night I think would play greatly into it though I am no expert on DNA collection and analysis. But another question to that point, where was the DNA of those that performed CPR on TM?

I agree it's not illegal for non-LEO. I totally understand why GZ did that and why he called 911.

While it's not un-reasonable for GZ to follow, according to Florida law (at least what I understand), it would also therefore, be reasonable for TM to be able to stand his ground as he's being followed - if in fact that's how it went down. While you think that TM ambushed him to stand his ground, I think that GZ initiated everything and was not ambushed and that TM was trying to stand his ground per Florida law and was then killed.

What is slightly unreasonable to me is a NWA leader not knowing the names of streets in his neighborhood when there are only like 3 or 4 different street names.

I agree on the handling of the body and environment, but I don't know the exacts, as I wasn't there and I'm no expert either.

Did they test TM for the dna of those who performed cpr on him? (I honestly don't know)

I also think that if you're struggling with someone who has a hand over your mouth and nose, there's got to be some dna exchange and possibly a tooth scraping a finger or something...and from what I've read, there's nothing.

sleepinsadie

A tooth cut? TM did have a small cut on one of his fingers/hands. ??????

GZ not knowing the street names. Stress or stupidity, probably stupidity.

As I understand it, SYG has to do with not fleeing from a criminal if having the opportunity to do so or even going after the criminal and then defending yourself from a further attack. There is no evidence that I know of that GZ committed the first battery. Until the first punch was thrown, nothing illegal had been done by either GZ or TM. So SYG would not apply.

When the holster was tested for DNA, there were found to be DNA from unknown sources. LEO, EMT ???

Yes, TM had a scrape on one of his fingers - from what I know, it was identified as not being from a tooth and had none of GZ's dna on it.

GZ not knowing street names - he was the leader of the NWA (I laugh every time I type that as I think of NWA, the group) and he's not smart enough or mentally acute enough to know/remember street names? If you're the leader of the NWA, you should know that - there should be no excuse for that. On a side note, if someone is the leader of any NWA and doesn't know the street names surrounding their residence, they shouldn't be the NWA leader and if one is too stressed to recall the names in a time of barely crisis (or too stupid), they shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun, because they can't handle stress worth a penny.

I agree with your point on Stand Your Ground - but I also don't believe that TM attacked GZ unprovoked, as evidence points to no physical confrontation between the two.

If there was dna from another party on GZ's holster, it could have come from LEO or EMT or anyone else (it could have been his wife or a friend), but it wasn't TM and that would seem to go against part of any claim that the weather or elements washed away dna info, as it didn't from the holster, right?

I think there was some DNA found on the gun/holster that could have been TM's but there was not enough to legally certify that it was TM's.

I believe the photos of GZ's face and head, along with other witness statements gives evidence of an altercation.

The dna does not certify anything, so therefore, people are free to make their own assumptions of what it might be. Though remember, GZ said TM had ahold of the gun, not the holster.

Most of those witnesses have recanted - what the photos of GZ's face and head show is that GZ has cuts on his head and his face is marked, it in no way proves TM did it or that there was a physical altercation between the two. The small cuts on the back of GZ's head are in no way consistent with having your head slammed repeated into a concrete sidewalk and there's nothing on TM's hands to show he was involved in a physical confrontation at all. GZ could been in a panic after shooting and easily rubbed his own head on the ground to cause what's on the back of his head and punched himself in the face or hit himself in the face with something to claim he had to defend himself - it's not far-fetched. I could cause the GZ injuries to myself in a matter of moments.

sleepinsadie: Damn shame your dog is that pretty, yet you are stupid as shyt (I hate to lose a friend); you even had a conversation with the stupidist dog in this conversation for the last 4 months), and seemed like you you could understand him/her/it? when nobody else could.

kpm58: Stupid dumb doggy bytch! (Which you yourself described your own dumb asZ as):

MuttMongrel self confessed female mutt-mongrel Dogg from hell! and Sadie! Let me get into this!

I really do not have much patience left after already being one of the most deligent posters studying the evidence -so let me say sadie; Kpmutt mongrel dogg already knows, if you do not have sense enough to follow the evidence to Georgie's convicticion for murder, then leave your vote precisely where your brain is -straight up George's asZ! Because except for that, there is no other evidence anywhere to be found that does anything other than convict George of murder.

sleepinsadie

"it's not far-fetched"......let me pause a moment and collect myself

The one recantation that I remember was in using the wording "MMA style" not that there was no altercation.

Going by the timelines established by the 9-11 calls and witness statements that have not been recanted, GZ would not have had time to commit the injuries to himself without having been seen doing so by one or more witnesses. Think about it. After making the shot (and you have not stated why GZ would fire the shot) GZ would have to make the conscious thought to do something. Think up what he was going to do. And then do it. And the doing would involve contorting himself around on the ground beating his head. Not something that would go unnoticed or easily forgotten.

MrPerryvine - thanks on the dog bro, she is a cutie.

But bro, you don't even know me, yet you go and call me "stupid as shyt"...seriously?

Sorry if I can understand where kpm58 is coming from - maybe having an open mind to other's thoughts is something you've not yet graduated to. In case you haven't noticed, he hasn't called me a name or made one racist statement during this conversation with me and since I haven't read every thread over the last 4 months and have no preconceived notion of kpm58, I'm not judging him - I'll leave that to people like you, as it ain't my gig to judge people I don't know in the least.

Congrats on being one of the most diligent posters on this and studying all the evidence - I've studied some and in case you haven't actually read my posts (and may just be pissed at me cause of what I said about Ray Lewis), I do think GZ has been lying and I do not think there was an altercation as he described and if I were to vote on what I've researched - I'd say he's guilty.

But that doesn't mean I'm so obtuse as to not listen to other's opinions with an open mind on a messageboard or to demean people with child-like name-calling. Bro, it's a messageboard, so to say you "do not have much patience left" is almost a joke - log out if you want, you don't have to read people's thoughts and post. Chill - I'll pass it your way in a bit.

kpm58 - his head wasn't "beat" - he had 2 small cuts. That's far from beat. It was dark, we weren't there, who knows what GZ could have done. I could literally lay on the ground and cause 2 scrapes on my head in moments - I buzz my head the way GZ's was that night. The other thing is - there was no swelling around those cuts, which if your head is being slammed into the ground, I'd expect swelling.

You'd be surprised at the stories of what people have done - my pops was Chief of Investigations, Alameda County, the stories I heard from him left me now surprised at nothing I hear.

How do I know why GZ would fire the shot - panic, scared, mentally unstable, meds, etc...it could be a variety of things.

sleepinsadie

Sorry, I have caused you to come under the attentions of some of those who only want to hear what they have to say. Well at least the more vitriolic they get, the less they really say.

I just sit back and LMAO.

Well kpm58, the funny thing is is that I lean towards their side of thinking on this case but because I'm having an open conversation with you (who leans the opposite way on this case), they are firing against me...it's a comical observation of messageboard postings.

So the person I'm disagreeing with is more cordial to me and having a more respectful conversation than the people who I agree with? hahahahhahahha...it is funny bro.

Hell, I look at the conversation with you as one I may have in a bar with someone - I'd probably buy you the next beer and then my girl would roll her eyes at me...hahahahha.

And I guess I'll add this here MrPerryvine - you are researching and gathering all the evidence you can on this and believe GZ did it in cold blood...what do you say about Ray Lewis (as you're a Ravens fan)? Would you be ok with GZ lying, hiding evidence, etc if he could play MLB for your team and lead them to a Super Bowl? Or is it because GZ's race is different than Ray Lewis' that you're so adament on this one?

sleepinsadie

For me, when taking everything that happened that night or I should say the evidence of what happened that night, and looking at it as a whole, I do not see it as unreasonable for the average persons to have acted as GZ describes. I have run different scenarios through and there is always something that does not fit with the whole event. From the forensics, the statements, the investigations of past events GZ's overall version fits together, roughly, but together.

That's what makes stuff like this so captivating to look at...because I've looked at the same stuff you have and have an entirely different conclusion than you do.

I see some of GZ's actions as unreasonable (NWA leader not knowing street names, etc) and have a different view of the forensics, statements, etc...

Have you watched GZ's re-enactment video?

One picture is worth a thousand words, and the jury will see pictures taken by the police, which are prosecution witnesses, if you want to say that the prosecution evidence is tainted, go ahead, Zimmerman will be automatically acquitted.

Steve - just cause someone looks worse for wear, it doesn't mean the other person started it or that it even happened the way someone said it did. Gotta look at everything and not just pictures, at least as far as I'm concerned.

But remember, this is Florida and the home of the Casey Anthony trial, so really, anything could happen in this trial and it shouldn't surprise anyone.

sleepinsadie

Yes I watched the re-enactment video.

And probably unlike you, I see a guy trying to put all the pieces together in his mind from what he remembers happened at night to what the detectives are saying to what he is seeing in the daylight. And all of that probably causes new memories to surface. And all of that does not even consider the level of tragedy that encompasses the whole situation.

Having been in a similar situation, I have empathy for GZ.

kpm58 - I agree about the tragedy of the situation.

And yes, we do see the video differently.

But I just can't get past the NWA leader not knowing the street name he's at - especially when it's the Community Center for the complex? And then to walk where he said he did to see a street name when he's worried there may be a criminal (who he doesn't know if he's packin or not) and possibly part of his "gang" in the area (since from his statements, we're to believe a gang has been committing the robberies)? That doesn't compute to me. It just seems much more likely he was following someone to end up there.

And bro, you saw what I said my pops did for a living - I lived under that scrutiny.

KPM

There's no DNA evidence from the CPR administers because they wear GLOVES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sleepinsadie

Your dog looks familiar, arent you a mountain climber or something? Didn't we comment on eachother's doggie pics before on another news article? I think we did.

hahaha...yes we have icurhoods...how's your dog doin?

my gf is on the french bulldog rescue network constantly lookin for another one.

Are you around snow? Mine loves the snow (and the fireplace).

sleepinsadie

The implication of a gang involved inthe crimes in the community came from the police.

Yes GZ followed or tried to follow TM after making the call to 9-11. Could GZ have been possibly trying to keep track of TM in order to point him out to the police when they arrived?

icurhood

Do LEO's and EMT's sweat?

Why do you have to go to Retreat View Circle to explain where your vehicle is on Twin Trees? He says he did not give an ADEQUATE description in relation to the CLUBHOUSE.

Singleton: But you were gonna be back in your car from that distance in less than 15 or 20 seconds. So why would they need to call you?

Zimmerman: I felt like I didn’t give them an adequate description of where I was from the clubhouse.

Audio Tape 3 – February 29, 2012

See, this is more about where he parked the vehicle in relation to the clubhouse, NOT about where Trayvon went. Giving the police dispatcher an address on Retreat View Circle certainly would not add any clarification about where his vehicle was. It is a ridiculous idea that it would help.

kpm58 - he followed in his car by the clubhouse then had to get out to see where he (GZ) was at because he didn't know the street names - in the video re-enactment, that's how GZ's story goes....not that he was following TM at that point, but that he wanted to be able to tell the dispatcher where he was.

GZ is guilty because he is a racist

Nope. GZ is guilty because he chased an unarmed kid who was engaged in no illegal or suspicious activity from one side of the neighborhood to the other, and then shot and killed him.

sleepinsadie:

I just went back over your posts above -and, um, I don't see why I went off on you. My apologies, if you'll have them.

fat loser......

This is the Zimmerman article. The other one is about Michelle's butt.