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Jacquelyn Martin / AP
Scout Pascal Tessier, 16, center left, and his Eagle Scout brother Lucien Tessier, 20 - both gay - seen here with their parents, Oliver Tessier, left, and Tracie Felker, at their home in Kensington, Md.
Published at 11:43 a.m. ET: The Boy Scouts of America said Wednesday it needed "time for a more deliberate review" of its policy banning gay Scouts and leaders, delaying a final decision on the controversial membership guidelines that have dogged the private youth organization in recent years.
"In the past two weeks, Scouting has received an outpouring of feedback from the American public. It reinforces how deeply people care about Scouting and how passionate they are about the organization," the BSA said in a statement.
"After careful consideration and extensive dialogue within the Scouting family, along with comments from those outside the organization, the volunteer officers of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Executive Board concluded that due to the complexity of this issue, the organization needs time for a more deliberate review of its membership policy."
The roughly 1,400 voting members of Scouting's national council will take action on the resolution at the national meeting in May 2013, the organization said.
The BSA said last week it was considering changing the policy, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay Scouts.
That announcement came just seven months after the BSA said it was sticking with its ban following a confidential two-year review and spurred advocates on both sides of the issue to step up their campaigns: They’d encouraged their backers to make their voices heard through a phone-in and email deluge.
A conservative group, the Family Research Council, said that it and 41 other groups ran a newspaper ad on Monday asking the BSA not to change the policy, and some conservative religious groups have urged their supporters to join in prayer to ask the board not to accept gays.
Jennifer Tyrrell, who was ousted as leader of her son’s Tiger Cubs den last year because she is a lesbian, said she was heartbroken over the news. She and other gay rights' advocates had hoped instead to be welcoming what they feel is an overdue change amid recent gains for the LGBT community nationwide.
The Boy Scouts of America delays until May a vote on whether to end a ban on gay members. NBC's Jay Gray reports.
"I had so much faith that they would make the right decision," Tyrrell, a mother of four from Bridgeport, Ohio, said through tears. "So many people are supportive of this. For them to make the announcement that they are going to possibly change it and then delay it, I just feel is -- it doesn’t make any sense."
She added: "A Scout is supposed to be brave. What are they waiting for? They know they are on the wrong side of history. They know that."
Courtesy Jennifer Tyrrell
Jennifer Tyrrell, of Bridgeport, Ohio, and her son Cruz. Tyrrell was ousted from her role as leader of her son's Tiger Cub den last year because she is gay.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which in 2011 sponsored 421,000 youth by chartering local troops, welcomed the decision.
"The Church is following this proposed policy change very closely," a spokesman for the church, Michael Purdy, said in an email. "We believe the BSA has acted wisely in delaying its decision until all voices can be heard on this important moral issue."
A coalition of Boy Scouts councils representing some 540,000 youth -- or 20 percent of the organization’s 2.6 million active Scouts -- asked the national organization on Monday to delay a decision on ending the controversial policy, saying it was concerned “about the pace at which such actions are being taken,” according to a statement posted on the website of the Utah-based Great Salt Lake Council.
Roger “Sing” Oldham, spokesman for the conservative Southern Baptist Convention Executive Committee, said the outpouring of feedback on the issue came as no surprise to him since his group felt the BSA had not allowed opponents of the change to weigh in on the proposal. Oldham said he had spoken with some troop leaders, pastors and parents -- some who said they would leave the BSA if the new policy was implemented.
With more than two-thirds of Scouting groups affiliated with religious bodies, faith plays a large role in the private youth organization.
Oldham said Wednesday that his group was “very pleased” with the decision to wait and solicit input from all members of the Scouting family.
“We continue to be hopeful, perhaps a little bit more guardedly optimistic than we were before, that the Scouting leadership, having heard from the American public, is going to realize that yes, while it is a divisive issue, that the net loss of changing the policy may be far greater than the net gain of changing the policy,” he told NBC News.
Tyrrell’s ousting came a few months before California teen Ryan Andresen was denied his Eagle award because he is gay.
Both cases made national headlines, roiling the BSA. Some critics pointed to declining membership numbers as a sign that families were being turned off over the issue. The controversy also prompted a few hundred Eagle Scouts to turn in their hard-earned regalia in protest of the ban, which the U.S. Supreme Court upheld in 2000.
Zach Wahls, an Eagle Scout and son of a lesbian couple who started Scouts for Equality to campaign for gays to be included, said Wednesday's action by the board was "an abdication of responsibility."
"Unfortunately, the BSA now has to answer to ... the hundreds of thousands of Scouts that had their hopes raised and then (subsequently) crushed by this announcement," he said. "It is disappointing, no doubt about it, no doubt about it."
If you are a current or former member of the Boy Scouts and would like to share your thoughts on how your troop, pack or council is handling the BSA's decision on the membership policy, you can email the reporter at miranda.leitsinger@msnbc.com. We may use some comments for a follow-up story, so please specify if your remarks can be used and provide your name, hometown, age, Boy Scout affiliation and a phone number.
Related:
After years of heartache, gay Scouts and supporters react warily over proposal to lift ban
'Gravely distressed': Religion looms large over Boy Scouts decision on gays
Gay teen denied Eagle Scout: 'Change is happening' over Boy Scouts anti-gay policy
Leave a Comment:
Are you kidding me! More time for what...Do whats right.
More time for "cover your ass" apologetics and sidestepping. That's what.
Sounds like the Boys Scouts have a bad case of "Washingtonitis" just kick the can down the road and don't make any hard decisions.
Take as long as you need ....Please we must get this right.....This is what our government has shown us how things get done correctly.
Just a little question here... Would you want your 14 year old sons going on camp outs with 14 year old girls?
AMEN kick this BS to the curb. What a darn joke. STAND YOUR GROUND BSA
why not - isn't the best way to make a fire is by rubbing a Boy Scout and a Girl Scout together?
Newsflash: The BSA is a private organization. You are not the moral police nor the judge of right and wrong. If they choose to exclude gays, that is their right. If you don't like the policy, don't support them.
They are doing what is right. Hang in there BSA!!!!!
Piss off people. BSA has the right to have their own policies, start your own gay band.
My son wouldn't want to be in the boy scouts, he has heard about how gay guys touch little boys.....
Phantom 209 are you or have you ever benn a boy scout?
No time to revoew comthing that has been done for over 100 years and worked. now if i still had kids in scouts and you wanted to allow my sons to have a gay leader, i would withdraw my kids in a heartbeat, like it or not i dont care what all you bleeding hearts want
This may come as stunning news to the Boy Scout organization, but there are already gay members within its organization, both gay boy scouts and gay adult members. The only difference is that the gay members are obliged currently to suppress their true selves for no valid reason.
So, the reality is that the Boy Scout organization is perfectly comfortable with its current gay members, as long as those gay members "don't tell". That's called hypocrisy.
I hope this is denied we don't need these people trying to convert straight boys into there sick little world. I don't want my kids to be near these types of kids and them trying to push there views and hands onto my kids.
I think it's 'cause they have to weigh the loss of corporate sponsorship against the loss of private membership and see which one will leave them in a worse financial pickle. I'm pretty sure accountants are the biggest players in their deliberations.
Most of the "please no gays in the BSA" is based on the false premise that gays are going to "touch" their children, even though the facts show that a "straight" person is more likely to be a pedophile than a homosexual. The comments about sleeping with them, is false NO adult is allowed to sleep in the same tent as children unless they are a relative (not sure that is so safe either but...).
On the other hand the comments that the BSA is a private organization does mean that they can discriminate against gays (under the current law) if they so wish, but that doesn't make it right. The BSA teaches young men how to be future leaders and I'm not sure how somebodies sexuality stops them from being a great leader Harvey Milk springs to mind.
I have many fantastic gay friends who are great parents and leaders, they face descrimination and harresment every day, and yet they harbor no hate against others and teach tolerance and respect for all people. They do NOT force their views on others, they are not trying to go to a church that hates them, but found a nice church who welcomes all through their doors.
If you don't like gays, that is your choice but being gay is not a choice and we should stop saying it is. nobody would chose to be hated and ridiculed.
@xyzyx - my teenage daughter is a Venturing Scout and lives and works every summer at Boy Scout camp. Your point?
Why does everyone think that gay people are only out to "convert" straights to their "lifestyle"? Believe it or not, you are around gay people all the time, INCLUDING in Scouts. Gay boy scouts exist, and somehow the entire moral fiber of scouting has not ruptured. This change in policy only means those Scouts no longer need to fear being thrown out of their troop. As for pedophiles, that is a completely different issue, and I have to say the existing policy of banning gays hasn't exactly been effective at keeping pedophiles out, has it?
They are trying to do what's right. They should not cave to public activists demanding change simply because the activists feel their cause is correct. Those who believe differently are just as valid and should not have to compromise their beliefs because you try and shame them into it. Persecuting those opposed to changing their beliefs is just as wrong. This isn't minority report, you can't make a person change their feelings on matters by publicly trying to destroy them. This all could have been avoided if LGBT would stop trying to Usurp the term marriage. Marriage will always and only be considered valid between a Man and a Woman. Anything else is a civil union. If all rights are equal, why do continue to push the issue of marriage knowing how contentious an issue it is for people to accept. You are asking people to change their perception of something that has been in place for eon's. All in the name of progress.
I don't mind them being gay just don't try to recruit my kids into your perverted world. Keep your status and your hands to yourself and we wont have a problem. As long as you keep to yourself then i don't have a problem with gays.
@ Mousesj
They are forcing their views on BSA to change their policies. LGBT are being intolerant with straight people's view, by calling straight people's views intolerant of their own.
Eagle Scout here - The level of intolerance and ignorance in this thread is disgusting. As a scout, I was taught to respect everyone, accept the members of my community for who they were and perpetuate kindness and understanding. If you support the ban on gays, you are a bigot and an intolerant and/or uneducated human being. My troop would never stand for this level of hate, you should all be ashamed of yourselves.
Mr. BMette
Your right, it is hypocrisy, AND a lie, so therefore THEY do not belong in the scouts according to the CoH.
But, if they do allow them, they won't have to change the letters, they can now be known as the Boy Sodomites of America.
And now we will here from the people of tolerance and understanding spew their vitriol onto those of us that have our faith based values that we are CONSTITUTIONALLY garaunteed, about OUR private clubs.
Greg who converted you into the straight world?
What an ignorant statement.
From a Gay Eagle Scout who never 'touched' another kid
No organization that teaches what the Scouts teach should ever condone bigotry
Your bigotry towards those who decide that they do not wish to associate with Gay people is despicable, but not as despicable as the pompousness you use in determining whats moral and right for the rest of us. No one cares about what you choose to do in your life so mind tour own damn business. You in the Boy scouts is like having the Pope leading Planned parenthood. People like you make my skin crawl and I pity your poor, poor children for having such a terrible bigot as a sperm donor.
DO WHAT IS RIGHT? What is so right about FORCING a private organization that has SCOTUS approval to stay just the way they are.
There are ALREADY enough problems with adults and older children molesting and abusing younger children. Sure, lets go ahead and throw some more fuel on the fire.
Why do they need more time?
More time to take donations from rank and file members who were currently holding back their support while waiting for a decision.
No decision is a decision. It is now all about the money and NOT about the boys that will be affected.
There is not now and there never has been any reason that homosexuals could not start their own PRIVATE organization. Not now, not ever.
phantom - if you meant keeping gays out is the right thing, then I agree.
Adam and Eve - not steve
The BSA is a private organization and there allowed to allow or deny anyone they want. Just like country clubs can allow or deny whoever they want. You don't hear poor people complaining that they can't get into a country club, same difference.
FFS BSA, GWTP!
Obama the Marxist,
First, I feel dumber for even having to type that. Second, I hate to break it to you, but your son already DOES share bunks with gay kids. He also shares locker rooms, bathrooms, classrooms, and a whole lot of other things with them. Not acknowledging their existence or forcing them to hide who they are does NOT ACTUALLY make them not exist.
Greg,
Poor people aren't kept out of country clubs just for being poor, but because they can't afford it. Gays are kept out of the BSA just for being gay. Big difference.
Everyone Else,
And why any of you think anyone is interested in you or your kid, to the point that they would try to "convert" you is laughable. Nobody wants you. Nor is there any truth in the "gay pedophilie" myth...
http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/10-myths
http://www.livescience.com/13409-myths-gay-people-debunked-sexual-orientation.html
Yes, as a private organization the BSA has the right to discriminate. No one is arguing that. So does the KKK. That doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, however.
are there Gay boy Scouts, of course, are there Gay girl scouts of course; just keep it to thereselves, enjoy scouting, that is what iit is all about. The scouts will come up with some compromise.
Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!
It's a nice thought, but it's not what's driving this. Loss of corporate sponsorship is what's driving this. Money talks and BS walks. Mr. Sulu (G. Takei) can organize any kind of "call-in" campaign that he wants. The Family Research Council and their 41 groups can do the same. Neither matter.
In the end, only 1 phone call matters and that's the call from Intel saying, "You're getting your 700K annual sponsorship back"
Right vs wrong is fun to debate, but c'mon folks... this is America! The final decision will have nothing to do with right or wrong. It will have everything to do with the wants of the major funders.
Soon a new pressure will emerge to ban the boy/girl concept and the lines will blur into unisex scouts
Pro,
Has allowing gays into all men's/women's schools, or any other gender specific thing, led to that happening? Being gay doesn't mean you have more in common with the opposite sex.
Exactly right Idaho!
I'd like to see the BSA take the fight back to the LGBT in the form of harassment, slander and defamation lawsuits. With the backing of the SCOTUS they should have no problem winning a case.
The BSA has not broken any law or denied anyone of their rights. The last time I checked, there is no article or clause in the constitution that guarantees membership into private organizations.
More time for what? Approval fron the Church of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) in Salt Lake City?
I wasn't surprised to find out how much control that the church (Church? Ya right, like Scientology) has on the boy scouts...
When I was a scout, I don't ever remeber them teaching intolerance, as a matter of fact it was quite the opposite...
I no longer support or give to the scouts anymore, ever since this hate drive towards some children just because they are different than the church people would want then to be...
greg warrel -
So, scouts start at Cub level, which is mostly 5-6 year olds. Most kids don't start figuring out their sexuality for at least 4 more years, and it would be another 4 before they could really be sure, and even then, in a strongly hetero-normative environment, the kid would probably be confused about it for several more years.
So, when a kid joins Scouts at 5 and figures out he's gay at 13, and really understands that at 15 and comes out, all of a sudden he's no longer a Scout. Sure sounds like you're facing a lot of persecution, there, grego. Hope you can cope with all that oppression that big, mean, gay kid is doing to you.
As for the rest, as I've explained before, if the BSA wants to operate in the public sphere, they will be susceptible to public pressure. Corporations are pulling their sponsorship over this issue. Oh, but wait. I get it, just like boycotts, social pressure is only acceptable when right-wingers do it, isn't it?
As for gays recruiting, molesting, blah blah blah. I'm just calling all the people who repeat these ideas idiots, and leaving it at that. I've spent too much time and bother refuting your stupidity for now. You get no sympathy, you don't even get my ear anymore. I don't care about your made up problems, or what your preacher said, or what your bible said, or any of it. Take a long walk off a short pier.
A,
Slander and defamation involve having lied about something. The last time I checked the BSA really didn't allow gays. So how exactly do you propose they make that case?
In other words, they want to maintain their homophobic attitude, they just want more time to figure out how much it's going to cost them from lost financial support from modern companies that won't put up with that sh*t anymore.
Sarah & Janstince
All i read in your comments is blah blah blah blah.
In more important news kids are being killed at a high rate of speed more so then 10 years ago. That's more important then this stupid crap about gays. We need to stop people from killing kids. Banning assault rifles is not the way. We need harsher punishment if anyone kills a kid they should be put to death them selves.
Greg,
That's okay, most people aren't very logical. No one is judging you.
Also in related news about children's health, gay kids are getting bullied to death. By the way, there are numerous articles about gun control, perhaps you should go discuss this there?
I am overwhelmed by the ignorance on here!
1. Openly gay men have a far lower instance of being pedophiles than "straight" men. Sandusky was "straignt" and married to a woman. Most pedophiles are. Also, why isn't heterosexuality blamed when male pedophiles who molest little girls. Bottom line, there is a difference between sexual attraction to a consenting adult and the desire to victimize a child.
2. I live in NYC and have many gay friends. Never have I ever felt that anyone was trying to "recruit" me or suggest to me that I should consider being gay. Why? IT ISN'T A CHOICE and gay people know this-as they did not make a choice to be gay themselves.
3. Saying it is ok to be gay is not recruiting people to be gay. I am woman who is attracted to by men. Gay marriage is now legal in NY. I won't be marrying a woman, even though it is legal because I am not attracted to women. Making it legal makes me no more attracted to women. Why would I marry someone I am not attracted to?
4. Appropriate is appropriate and inappropriate is inappropriate. No scout leader, gay or straight, should be discussing their sex life with the kids.
5. The Boy Scouts have a constitutional right to do as they wish. No one is saying they do not. However, I have the same right to express my opinion and give/withold my support.
6. Even if they do believe it is a sin (i disagree) aren't all scout leaders sinners...as all humans are. Do they ban people for other sins too-or just this one? Someone has a bad relationship with their parents-therefore not honoring thy father and mother-are they banned? Someone uses the Lord's name in vein-are they banned?
7. Challenging discrimination is not descrimination against those who are bigoted. No one is taking away anyone who is homophobic's right to do anything (as no one has the right to not have to hear the opinions of others or see things they don't like.) The only rights being denied here are those of the gay boy scouts.
Greg warren
"All I read in your comments is blah blah blah."
The "stupid crap about gays" you refer to is what this article is about. You are choosing to voice your opinion by shadowing it behind another statement, so you look like less of a bigot. People deserve the right to be treated as equals, I don't need to display links or write five pages to explain it, because it is simple. Equal rights. Believe me, someone very close to you in your daily life is gay, and you don't know so it does not bother you. So if you found out do you believe that same person should LOSE some of the rights they had before they made their sexual orientation public?
Stand Your Ground BSA!
Ignore the LGBT and their rabid supporters. At the end of the day these fools don't give a rat's a$$ about your organization beyond how they can exploit it to further their own putrid agenda.
Good that the BSA chose to hold up under the pressure put forth by the gays. Too many of them think that the world revolves around their beliefs and that all should cater to them. I am glad that the BSA chose not to look the other way when deciding what kind of people would be teaching our children. No offense, but your "GAY" values can't even produce biological children and never could. You want to teach children so badly, then have some of your own! If not, don't try and subvert what other parents have put into their children as values.
GOOD FOR THE BSA! We all think you made the RIGHT decision.
Carryingconcealed
How can you speak on behalf of the gay community and what they do or do not care about? Obviously if they are fighting to be accepted into the scouts they do give a rats rear end, right? You are just afraid of progress. Or you are afraid of a gay person doing your job as good if not better than you and then you will no longer be able to talk down to them like you probably do now...
I was unaware that there's a "procreation" badge. Also, we've been over this before, you see a man has something called sperm, which fertilizes a woman's egg. Who you choose to sleep with does not effect the fertility of either of those things. However, I'm sure you just pissed off all the infertile people out there. How dare they be allowed equal rights, when they can't pop out kids!
Yet when we tell you to leave your PERSONAL religion out of a legal argument, your head explodes.
Most gay families adopt children who have no home. This helps remove them from broken foster homes, orphanages and other horrible situations for any child and puts them into a loving, permanent home. More couples should be adopting instead of pumping out child after child into a world that is already overpopulated.
After admitting this, why would any of you challenge Greg? Do you attempt to walk through closed doors? Would you drive over a bridge that is out? Of course not!
Yet a person who has told essentially told you, "my mind is closed" is a challenge somehow?
As a liberal, I come to newsvine to read comments by conservatives. My mind is NEVER closed to what conservatives have to say for two main reasons.
One, not all conservatives are nuts and sometimes, they come up with good ideas.
Two, have a good understanding of your adversary's position... this way you have the tools to defeat them on issues where they clearly have a weak position.
Harold,
Only if I've had too much to drink.
To all who say that being gay is not a choice then where is the proof? I might agree that the condition is brought on by social influences (just like alcoholism) but it is not inherant in a person and it is unnatural...no matter how you slice it...this does not mean that they are treated worse but just as any other person with a mental illness.
Not for most of us. It's more about not teaching our children that homosexuality is acceptable. I realize that you believe it to be and that's your prerogative just as it is ours to disagree with you. The BSA is primarily rooted in Christian values and beliefs and parents send their sons there to allow them to be around like minded individuals, provide them with appropriate role models, and some life skills. If that is what the homosexual community wants for their children, they should create an organization based on their beliefs to do just that.
Unhappy-1583758
OUTSTANDING Commentary........It's time to stand up to a "group" who believe they can "push and Bully" people with their "bizarre out look on what they believe is a normal life style"!!!
Hang in there BSA and stick to your beliefs. Don't let them force their deviant behavior/ethics on your organization. They have made their choice, they have to live it, we DO NOT have to accept something we feel is perverse and disgusting.
Happy,
Please find me homosexuality in the DSM IV. Or, more likely, concoct some insane conspiracy about the APA being a "gay infiltrated", liberal media group out to take over the world, so everyone will know how crazy you are.
Justice,
You may be okay teaching children to hate themselves based on what they do in the privacy of their bedrooms, but I am not.
Ergo...
To any gay teenagers who may have just read Justice's post,
Ignore him. The world is on your side, and there isn't a damn thing wrong with you. And I promise you this, you will receive equal protection under the law before you pass on. And one day, people like Justice and his asinine tripe will make you laugh, and the world will relegate his kind to the history books right next to Nazi collaborators and the people who spit on civil rights workers. That's the way the world has always worked, and that's the way it will work here to.
IT GETS BETTER.
http://www.itgetsbetter.org/
Interesting to see non geneticists and non-biologist claim that human sexuality is based purely by choice. The ridiculousness of that argument should be apparent from the out-set.
Sexuality is the most important behavior attached to sexual reproduction, and thus biology does not leave this to a learned behavior. There are scores of animals where the first contact they have with an adult is at the time of mating when they themselves are adults, instinctively pairing off with the opposite sex to mate (instincts being controlled by genes) and yes some paring off with those of the same sex.
How ever this is about equality, that somehow something that could be a choice (of course its not but this is for arguments sake) means it is less deserving of equality and protection. Be very very careful with this line of reasoning, after all religion is also a choice, should it therefore be stripped of its protection and rights, of course not, so why should gay Americans.
Sarah-3043284
read the boy scout oath and tell me religion doesnt play a big part in the scouts
It appears that many people don't know the difference between a homosexual/lesbian and pedophile. Get a clue and learn the difference before you spew your hate. You make yourselves look like idiots. And those who say they want their kids to know about "morals", look at the rest of your lives...you hate gay people, but do you curse? drink? smoke? ever do drugs? break any laws? had sex outside of marriage? kept any money that wasn't yours, including if you received too much change back? helped yourself to office supplies? lied to anyone, ever? Are those not morals (commandments) that you are breaking? And as a heterosexual Christian, I want to apologize to everyone who has ever been abused, mistreated, badmouthed, hated, lied about, condemned, judged, intolerated, or rejected by so called "Christians." Jesus does not teach hate.
David,
Can you quote where I said it didn't? Or can you quote where I said the BSA didn't have the right to discriminate? If you're referring to where I quote Unhappy, that was in regards to its numerous anti-gay marriage posts and its blatant hypocrisy about forcing personal beliefs on people.
quit pushing your gay agenda upon someone especially child organizations . why don't you start your own club or you afraid no-one would join
whiskey eye
The problem here is teens who are gay are being forced out and gay mom's and dad's with children in a scouts are being told they can't help. Its not a gay agenda its called equality. Careful your prejudice is showing.
I am not religious in the least, but, SCOTUS has already said the BSA are legal in operating as they are. They have always had a religious background as part of their Mantra, read their Oath: On my honor I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country
and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong,
mentally awake, and morally straight. These are their morals that people are trying to coerce into changing, and training the youth that they should abandon their moral convictions at the behest of people that oppose them! That is just wrong they have the right to their religious beliefs , even if WE do not agree with them! That is an integral part of our Constitution in the 1st Amendment, so you are also asking them to forsake another part of their Oath, which is to do their duty to their country, which I believe means to also honor its Constitution! I would rather have them teach the Scouts to stand by their moral convictions then to kowtow to someone elses beliefs, whether their beliefs are right or wrong! These youths will grow up into adults and have their own belief systems, whether they are the same as the BSA or not will remain to be seen! Start another scouting organization that believe as you do and teach your values to them you have every right to do that! SCOTUS has already ruled in their favor! Get over it and let them live their lives as they feel is the right way to live! This is from a former Scout, that has grown up to believe that Gays have the right to live their lives, but do not believe that they have the right to coerce people into accepting their beliefs!
So should all the black kids have their own club? Should the little Jewish children have their own club? Should we segregate all of our children into little clubs where they only associate with kids their own race/religion/gender/sexuality?
And speak for yourself. As I have stated above, I am an Eagle Scout, and I welcome everyone. Hate is hate, no matter how you try to justify it. Let me know when you start the Nazi Scouts, so I can send all the bigot families your way.
When did wanting to be treated equal and have the same rights as others become "pushing an agenda?"
Were they requesting to be made automatic eagle scouts or have any special privileges, that would be one thing.
They want the same treatment as everyone else. How is that shoving anything down anyone elses throat or forcing anyone to go against their values?
Sarah-3043284
and your not trying to push your personal beliefs on anyone ?
14 year old boys and girls DO camp together. There is a BSA program for co-eds called Venturing. It's for boys AND girls, ages 13-21. Because of the youth protection training and two-deep leadership required, the maturity of the Venturers, and discussions, co-eds camping together is not a problem. Boys get their own tents, girls get their own tents, adult leaders in their own tents, but all in the same camp.
Morning Sarah (((Hugs))) and as always thank you for your support.
Good point, Sarah!!! That is EXACTLY what gays are doing to America. I have a feeling that the gay agenda will create a backlash and formerly supportive people will turn against gays. That would be a shame.
David,
Legally, NO. Hence, you can't quote where I've said that discrimination by the BSA should be against the law. Nor can you quote any argument I've made in favor of changing the law. Also, you can't quote where I've said people aren't entitled to their opinion of gay marriage being "not okay". Can you?
If you can't see the difference between having an opinion of something being the right thing to do and allowing that opinion to be voiced, and advocating for that opinion to be used as a legal basis, I can't help you. Laws govern us in the aggregate, ergo laws FORCE people to conform for fear of consequences. Opinions do not.
THAT IS THE DIFFERENCE.
Steve,
Morning to you, right back!
garbageman-2736857
Private groups have a right to many things but guess what I don't believe they have a right to tell children you are not good enough to be in that group. Just becasue they have an apparent right to do something does not make it right.
You know over 60 years ago SCOTUS ruled it was OK to have white only clubs. All I can say is that does not seem right today. If you don;t like equality I guess you might be in the wrong country.
garbageman-2736857
When quoting the BSA oath what you should do is look at (& post) the directions given to leaders as to the meanings of the oaths...So a boundary is not crossed, or you make a mis-statement about the meanings.
@ marlblecake - did i say anything about blacks?jews ?they can stay as long as they are not gay. i doubt very highly you where a scout-----@ krestov-- he knew the rules when he joined .he knew the rules and consciences when he told them he was gay --- equality--- not gay agenda ---- undocumented immigrant == not illegal aliens --- there you go pushing your liberal agenda
so what your saying sarah is your opinion is right and mine is wrong ?
As a former Assistant Cubmaster, I must say the Scouts was founded on the principles of God, Country, Faith and Family. Family, at the time clearly meant heterosexual, not homosexual.
Since the change will not be able to be undone, they are wise to make certain a change does not fundamentally change their organizations values and meaning significantly for the worse instead of the better.
Steve you never did answer my question about all the notations to god in the oath
@Sarah
So? at one point anyone using any kind of public facility may have even shared it with a serial killer, rapist, pedophile, or necromancer that doesn't mean they did so with -- what's that famouse phrase of yours-- informed consent.
What's the difference? Neither one meets the requirements?
What's that river in egypt named again?
That's funny, I don't see BSA ruining around stringing up gay people, or holding meetings hatin on them. They've simply held to their opinion, it's not their fault gay people have difficulty distinguishing themselves apart from their sexual orientations.
Please! bullying isn't soley a gay issue, gays just want to make it into one. Out of the four bullycides reported at the time of his death, probably the only name anyone will remember is Raymond Chase. Why? Cause he's gay of course.
Are you denying their are legitimate reasons for gender restrictions?
Are we expected to believe that gay rights organizations have restricted themselves to only that
Can you fertilize an anus? Didn't think so. The federal definition of marriage allows the minute percetage of eldery or infertile couples to get married, but regardless of gender identity no one can marry someone of the same sex. Also, how does that apply to gays who aren't elderly or infertile?
We're perfectly okay with it, it's that glaad agency demanding apologies all the time that doesn't seem to understand the difference. Perhaps you should explain it to them.
Linda M-311663
How so?
You all keep throwing out this "Gay Agenda" thing.....I didn't get any paper work or agenda from anyone and I'm gay.
It's called equal treatment under the law. I know that may be a lot of words for some to type but that is what it is. Let's call it what it is.
whiskey eye
The "He new the rules when he joined" argument is rather mute when we are talking about six year olds. Really? You expect a six year old to say "oh mom, dad I can't join becasue I am gay." You need a reality check on that one.
When a six year old joins the scouts they learn the boy scout oath, and its says not one jot about being gay.
ItIsWhat!t!s
Funny its the BSA who kicks moms and dads out or kids out if they find out they are gay. Apparently it is the BSA doing the hating.
Anyway the BSA has lost this fight in Washington state where gay scouts are welcomed and gay mom's and dad's are welcome to help. Local groups were threatened by BSA HQ with expulsion, their response "bring it on", guess what BSA backed down.
how is denying gays into the boy scouts unequel under the law steve ?
david-316722 This is right from the BSA web site...Which is what I suggested you read, but I 'm guessing you didn't....So here it is.
Note that the Boy Scout Oath has traditionally been considered to have three promises. Those three promises are delineated by the semicolons in the Oath, which divide it into three clauses. The three promises of the Scout Oath are, therefore:
DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your FAMILY and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.
Men and women of the past worked to make America great, and many gave their lives for their country. By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country. Obeying the Scout Law means living by its 12 points.
DUTY TO OTHER PEOPLE: Many people need help. A cheery smile and a helping hand make life easier for others. By doing a Good Turn daily and helping when you're needed, you prove yourself a Scout and do your part to make this a better world.
DUTY TO SELF: Keeping yourself physically strong means taking care of your body. Eat the right foods and build your strength.Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions. Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.
the question was steve ...how can you serve god and be homosexual ?
PS ItIsWhat!t!s
Of course people of the same gender can marry and they do, just not in your mind.
david-316722
Its not your place to ask, not mine either.
@Uchusky
You're welcome to your opinion, but sexual identity has little baring on biological sexual behavior.
Excuse me? Sexual attraction is sexual attraction and you're intentionally confusing the mind of the perpetrator with the mind of the victim. Are you claiming homosexuals can't help who they're attracted to but pedophiles can?
Then it's an "equal rights" agenda.
If they want to be like everyone else, why do they have to reveal their gay. Do the other kids go around saying, "I'm straight"? Generally, I find it questionable that the matter of sexual orientation is even coming up with kids of a non sexually reproductive age.
Sarah-
What I'm suggesting is having unisex scouts is a possibility, why not? Why do we need to seperate the sexes in this organization. Consider that women are now being allowed into combat roles along with men. Apples vs oranges? I don't think so.
Additionally, why all the focus on gay boys? What about gay girls in the GSA? My point is, since we're going to have gays of both sexes, as well as straights, why not combine everybody into a common group? Just a thought.
Steve - when you question the "gay agenda" you act like it does not exist but it does and you know it. Gays (whether you or others) wish to advance your standing in society - that is the agenda - not recruiting or other items that may be presented here but there is an agenda. That having been said I have observed that the gay society does want to push the issue for something that they choose (don't bother saying it is innate - that cannot be proven and I don't believe it)
So I would say then that the actions taken by gays to gain approval for their decision to act a certain way sexually (which is an afront to many on religious grounds) is a slipery slope...does teen sex follow? Polygamy? I know you will most likely trot out the old song and dance about those but it is a valid concern...In short why do you deny the right of people to believe that being gay is wrong just because you think it is OK? You could be wrong...And duty to God means following his laws - I know you want to spin it in any way that would deny this but you can't really.
david-316722
Again, I am trying to give you the benefit of doubt, in that I assume your smart enough to see things for what they really are.
If your asking me that question after reading all that has been posted on the subject, my assumption was wrong.
Krestov
yes i can ask because the gays say there is no god but yet they want in an organization that clearly has an oath to god
David,
Yeah, pretty much. At least that's what my morals say. However, what does it matter to you, as I'm not suggesting any legal change or argument, ergo nothing will be forced on you. If the BSA changes, it won't be because of any legal obligation, but by their own hand. If you have a problem with public opinion being used to coerce change, I suggest you move to a country without free expression. I get it, that's why you can't quote where I've once said you aren't entitled to your opinion.
Sara -
How about the lie that the BSA is an unconstitutional, bigoted, homophobic, hate group. The truth is they are a patriotic, morally straight, faith based, service organization that is officially sanctioned by the U.S. government through congressional charter and that has spent the last 100 years teaching boys to be upstanding, environmentally conscious, self-reliant citizens.
The LGBT on the other hand are self-absorbed, self-serving, law-ignoring, progressive, radical, liberals that use intimidation, slander, infiltration and harassment to destroy private organizations they have no right to be a part of or do not agree with.
Nice deflection Steve
Profreedom,
For the same reason we have all girls high schools and all boys high schools. I personally don't think it's a good idea, but if you're saying integration of everything is going to happen because of gays, you need to look at like concepts. We haven't gotten rid of them due to allowing gays to attend these schools have we? And I'm guessing we don't place the same stigma on gay females because the majority of men who say "ick" to gay men also say "that's hot" to gay women.
Thank you for proving the point sarah that if anyone has an opinion that does not reflect yours they are wrong.
Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices;
A,
See the problem there is that it's your opinion. You need to actually prove your point, not express your opinion.
David,
Sure, just like you think I'm wrong. The difference is, I don't try to force mine on you through legislation. Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to illustrate the difference between an opinion and a bigot.
see above sarah
happy42xxx
You and people like you make me sick. Your always are fixated on sex & God.....What is it with you people anyway?
There is a huge difference between what your assuming would happen if we got equal rights under the law, and the reality.
As far is God is concerned...and I will keep saying this....WHO'S VERSION OF GOD...Yours? Would you also like to deny me and others the right to religion?
Give me a break.
david-316722
Who said you can't be gay and religious, or even christian? Everyone is a sinner, I don't recall anywhere that suggests if you are a sinner you can't be religious.
Besides my religious beleifs are not between me and you and you frankly have zero, absolutely zero, place to judge them, that is between me and God.
David,
When I try to pass a law forcing you to get "gay married" or forcing the BSA to integrate you'll have a point. Until then, I guess I'm stuck being bigoted against bigots, which I'm totally okay with.
So? In failing to meet the requirements they're no longer eligible. It's a part of life. Can you biologically substantiate being homosexual? We can discuss the merits of equality and fairness till cows start flying, can you prove any moral benefit to same sex behavior or orientation?
They're within their rights to do what they feel is best for the club, as is the government. The burden of proof is on the gays to show some benefit to having homosexual members other than relief of political pressure and bullying.
Didn't the BSA win the Supreme Court battle allowing it to keep the prohibition?
Or in the mind of the federal government. Basically all "gay marriages" are still civil unions.
Krestov
did i judge ? I dont think i did
Well once again I can see why the gays get so touchy when you try to have a reasonable conversation with them - that is probably your biggest obstacle ...Because I choose to follow a set of rules set down by God that causes you to commit sin you think less of me...but if the shoe was on the other foot then we would have a whole different perspective...You also show your ignorance in saying I am trying to make you believe in God (which I do not mention in any post) - I simply state that you should not have an issue with people that think you are wrong based on their beliefs...but since I can see you are unreasonable then sorry for your gayness cowboy :)
Not committing adultery is one of the Ten Commandments - the highest laws given by God. Yet, how many Scout leaders have committed adultery? How many Scouts have had sex outside of marriage? No one is throwing them out of Scouts, even though they are clearly breaking God's law and are not morally straight. And yet by a boy just saying he's gay, that is enough to throw him out of an organization he's been part of most of his life. This is not some big powerful LGBT alliance pushing some secret gay agenda. I am the wife of an Eagle Scout. I have a daughter who is a Venturing Scout, and a son soon to start his Eagle project. I also know boys in our council who are gay, and don't want to see them ostracized for that. There are many of us traditional heterosexual families, active for decades in Scouting, who simply want to see this discrimination end. Sure, SCOTUS said it was legal. There's a difference between legal and right. Read the founding documents of our nation - blacks were originally considered less than a whole person. That was law, but it wasn't right.
ItIsWhat!t!s
It doesn't matter that the boy scouts have had this position for years, the homosexual community wants to be a part of everything that hetrosexuals have so they can be considered normal
it's kinda funny everyone mentions scotus ..scotus ruled the the BSA could do it so the homosexuals don't want to follow that ruling but they are salivating waiting for the scotus ruling on marriage
I'm stating the fact that there is a difference between attraction and the desire to victimize.
I'm stating the fact that there is a difference between desiring a sex with someone who is mature enough and emotionally capable of consenting and forcing sexual acts on someone who is not.
Straight men can't help who they are attracted to either. Can you not see the difference between the difference for a straight man to desire a consensual relationship with a woman and the desire to rape her?
For that matter, however, pedophilia is an illness. While there is never any justification to ever touch a child, and all who do and enable them should be severely punished for their actions-the desire itself may be a symptom of the illness. This cannot be confused with homosexuality however as the illness involves the desire to harm someone else, not share an experience with an adult, consenting partner.
For those of you who believe that being gay or lesbian is a choice, it's actually a birth defect.
An extensive review of the medical literature from 1955 to 1998 aimed at producing numeric estimates for the frequency of sex variations and reported the following:
Babies born with neither XX or XY chromosones is 1 in 1,666 births.
Number of babies given surgery to "normalize" their genitalia are 1 or 2 in 1,000 births.
And the problem with the surgeries is that the parents and doctors make the decision as quickly as possible. And many of those decisions result in the wrong sex being given.
Gay and Lesbian people do not choose this. It is a birth defect they deal with their entire lives. They do not try to promote others to "be" gay or lesbian.
Nice to hear the Boy Scouts of America are having a problem opening their doors to kids with a birth defect.
Looks like the better than thou bigots and American Taliban are out in force today. According to them, being born in America is not cause enough to enjoy the guarantee of justice and liberty.
What you anti gay people fail to see is that we as gay people have gone threw a lot of struggles to come to terms with who we are.
In my case as a young man, like others I was different, and I knew it, I couldn't say how, but I did know.
In my teens, I searched for answers as to why I am the way I am. I was told by the likes of you that it was because I didn't have enough faith in God, I was told I would burn in hell, I was told that it was against nature. It was all negative. I prayed to God to change me, but it didn't work.
As a young adult in my 20's I had such a negative self image that I was drinking a lot and doing drugs in an attempt to numb the feelings. I got married to a woman and that was a disaster, I then attempted suicide.
While in treatment I learned to accept myself for who I am. All because of attitudes like the anti's I went threw this. It is a different time, our young LGBT don't have to go the same route as I did Thank God, but they still do.
Why can't you just accept people for who they are? Stop the hate in the name of what ever God you understand...Stop it. These are our children and they deserve all the support we can give them to grow up healthy, and to know that they are loved.
BTW, I don't need your pity. I know that some of you will say..."well that's a tear jerking story..but.....Which tells me you give two @!$%#s less about kids...It's about you.
Great posts sarah! As usual i agree with you. Many stores post signs stating they have the right to refuse service to anyone they deem worthy enough to kick out for various reasons. This is a fine line because what if someone wanted to deny entry because of gender or race... That is discrimination and simply cannot be tolerated in a civilized society. There are limits to what private organizations can do for these reasons. Honestly though who even cares about the boy/girl scouts still i couldn't care less.
I'm seeing a lot of intolerant people on here. The fact of the matter is that the BSA is ultimately the one who has to make, and live with, the decision. I'm glad they're putting it off, and I hope they do what's best for everyone rather than capitulate to a minority to escape political pressure; which would be more cowardly than courageous. Personally, I hope they uphold it. Political bullying doesn't validate any activity.
@Sarah
Force also includes coercion by threat. How many people are suspended or forced to issue a retraction of a statement expressing their personal views on gays?
And Political pressure had nothing to do with it?
I have no problem with public opinion being used to coerce change, when public opinion isn't swayed by dishonest media reporting, vague statistics from polls we never see the actual wording of. Free expression? Before or after the obligatory retraction demand from the homosexual community?
To the best of my knowlege gay males aren't permitted to all female schools,and no one is denied education -- which happens to be the focus of schools. That's not to say we sweep the reality of sexual attraction under the rug. Just because girls go to the same school as boys doesn't mean they're ok showering with them.
Ok, while homosexual organizations can't get away with forcing perticipation, that is not to say no coercion is invovled. Do the Boy scouts have a choice of who they associate with? Suppose some boy scouts simply don't want to be around a gay boy scout, what keeps the gay community from pushing the "seperate but equal" phillosophy on the masses -- claiming that there's internal discrimination from the boy scouts rather than the kids just may not want to be bothered?
From your statements, I gather you may just a bigot. Period!
CHECK THIS OUT!!!..................
Im filled with disgust at the pro-gay and the gays community on their continuous attempt at forcing the gay culture on public norm and trying to force their way into our organizations that build community and child growth!
Also, its completely absurd the argument these groups (and certain people on this site!) give on the percentage of pedophiles that are straight vs. gay! They all need to be shot if you ask me but, if the intelligent American would do some research they would find out that the gay culture tries to distort the facts because actually gay pedophiles are called "pederasts"! So, yes if your study only involves the term "pedophile", then the % leans towards the straight community. If you combine the terms "pedophile" and "pederast" the % is overwhelmingly against the gay community!
If you doubt my comments check out Kevin Bishop. He is a major activist for gay/lesbian community and admitted pederast and is gay. He has for decades promoted the NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association (yes, this makes me just wanna vomit!) In an interview, he stated himself, that "if you scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile"!!! This is statements from a head gay activist!!! He has continuously promoted "sexual freedom" and lowering the age of consent for children (huh???, just what I thought!!) In other countries, the gay community are more open on gaining assess to children but in the U.S. they are more circumspect on this and the homosexual activists try and publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles/pederasts as part of a "public relations strategy". But homosexual groups actively recruit youth through groups like The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the Hettrickmartin Institute, AIDS services providers, and various agencies that assist runaway youth!
The gay community use their contacts with our community leaders LIKE Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader!!!!! (Now people can see where all this gay push is being supported!!) This "judge" was an attorney for the ACLU. She co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent be lowered to 12yr old!!! (WHAT??) This can be checked out..."sex bias in the US code", report for the US Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977!!
Reports produced by gay friendly organizations, state that 97% of pedophiles are from heterosexuals. This just "deflects attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children"!! This goes back to the pedophile (adult having sex with child of opposite sex) and pederast (adult having sex with child of same sex) is how they try to get away with these distorted reports! A gay study performed by Jay and Young several years ago reported that 73% of homosexual had sexual intercourse with children 16yrs old and younger! In this study, they found that 80% of the boys who are pedophile victims, were molested by "gay adult males"!!! In a study done in 1985 compared the rates of molestation on pederast vs pedophiles and they come up with these numbers (which is scary as hell!!) by Dr. Paul Cameron, PHD in a average of 20 years found:
-pederast molested 22,981 boys
-pedophiles molested 4,453 girls
...if you do the math, that was 27,434 molestations and nearly 84% was done by homosexuals!!!! (now where is your argument gay activists???)
Now to my point....... in a nationwide investigation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that there was more than 2000 reported molestations by adult male scout leaders!!! As of yet, I have not found newer studies on this subject, but give me time! America needs to stand up and fight these people to the full extent. They are pushing their "wants" on the American people and trying more and more to gain assess to our children! The only thing difference in recent years, is the way the have amended their attacks with abstruse barrages of pity and the liberal side of the ACLU to help!
Don't give in America! We must protect our country, our children, and rights as Americans!!
I find it interesting that people use the word discriminating in the actions of the BSA, and fail to see the discrimination they are showing to the people that are holding to their religious beliefs, whether right or wrong! These are their MORAL beliefs that you feel is appropiate to coerce them into forsaking! The Supreme Court has already ruled in their favor, Start your own organization, maybe yours will succeed and theirs will fail, or vice versa, but that will be actual free choice and not one mandated by YOUR beliefs or theirs! That sucess or failure is the true EQUALIZER!!! They have the right under the 1st Amendment of our Constitution the right to free expression and religion, the same as you!
ItIsWhat!t!s
As I stated earlier in Washington Stat its irrelevant what BSA HQ thinks its already an equal open group here.
Proving it can and does work. In all of this you've forgotten about the kids who can't have their dad's help or the 6 year old who joined and then when 14 knows he is gay and expect to drop out after 8 years of hard work.
Things will change and does making gay a choice some how validate your argument? Biologically sexuality is not a choice, but religion is, makes you wonder.
I would defend anyone's right to be religious even though its a choice.
"Sarah" -
once Again...
YOU are Absolutely Awesome from my Point of View ( Seriously !... ;)
I had become really tired of trying to tell folks that "Gay" is not something you can "CATCH" From others... or that we would Desire to change Anyone's Basic Nature,.. EVEN IF WE COULD ! the Very Notion is Ridiculous !
and Being A HUMAN BEING is deeper than just a predetermined sexual preference (at least for me, it is) whether you are GAY or STRAIGHT, it IS a matter of who we Feel Companionship for... Companionship is a much better, and more Accurate term than Just "SEXUAL PREFERENCE"... I Am so Much More than just someone to Have Sex with... I Have Love Even For the Folks who are too bloody Dense between the Ears, to understand that Love and Sex are SEPARATE... And yet they create something Spiritual... When they are ONE.... and THAT TRUTH is For Everyone who Has the Capacity and WILLINGNESS to Receive Love...
And THAT IS ALSO A TRUTH that is NOT EXCLUSIVE to the ones who Believe (Falsely) That they EXCLUSIVELY Hold the "Keys To The Kingdom" of Heaven, or whatever your spiritual Belief is.... How Bloody Arrogant in almost Anyone's View of the world to have to Suffer the FOOLS who Claim to Be "Chosen"...
AS IF !
Sarah,...
it may sound kind of silly, but you Have Inspired this tired ol' Doggie, to Remain Steadfast in Communicating my Firm Belief in Equality and Fairness... and that IS something to Relish, if your so inclined... ;)
thanks, my Friend...
Walking Eagle.
Although there have been voiced some good thoughts here, by both party sides... it's all crap, and most of you are either missing the point, or intentially not wanting to address it. The real point? My son, age TEN (10) is gearing up for Cub Scout graduation, 'Arrow of Light' ceremony. At age ten, if you should ask him (not!), the ONLY thing his penis is FOR... is to go 'pee' with. Period, end of story. So, now he, and the others graduating with him, are the new 'youngest' boys in the Boy Scout troop. Activities, camping, etc... and they are then subjected to having to LISTEN to the sixteen, seventeen, yes even the eighteen and ninteen year old gay guys openly TALKING about being homosexuals? I think NOT! And, yes, we KNOW that our children WILL be subjected to this kind of crap. It'll be from the hormone driven gay kids, NOT the troop leaders! My question? Exactly WHY should my ten year old boy (or even eleven year old boy), at that naive/tender age... now learn and understand that some older boys like to shove their penis up into other boys' asses? Why should these young (sexless) boys have to hear, learn about males performing oral sex on other males? We all know the stupid talk kids do at that age of 16,17,18... we KNOW the younger boys will be forced to 'accept' them and their sex acts as 'normal'. So exactly why (the hell!) should I or any other parent have to have this discussion with a kid THAT YOUNG!?!? An 18 year old boy scout has the RIGHT to be a homosexual if that's his interest area, he does NOT have the right to discuss this with my kid. The Boy Scouts HAVE the right to bar gay kids from their organization. Now, I am a rather liberal and tolerant father, actually have several friends who are gay... as such, were I a troop leader, I would allow the gay kid admission... BUT, would instantly kick him out the VERY first time he opened his mouth up about being gay. And that would be final, irrevocable. And we do KNOW they will open their mouths (no pun intended) at that age. And they have absolutely no right whatsoever talking that crap around my kid, just as I want no hetrosexual 18 year old kid talking that explicit crap around my kid. In my example (allowing them until they talk)... we know it wouldn't work. So, I hope the Boy Scouts stand firm, not allow homosexuals in. Let some gay rights group start their own, second (legal) gay scout troop. I don't know, call themselves... whatever they wish.
How hard is it to understand that these children do NOT need to be learning about this crap at their age? Like, DUH!!!
Gary Cyr
Wow talk about not giving your kids credit where credit is due. What do you think will happen if they learn that some boys like other boys?
MY kids know their uncle is married to another man, as far as I know neither of my boys are gay. If they were its not becasue of their knowledge its called biology Gary, biology.
My friends have friends who are gay and their children knew about it and their boys grew up fine are now married to women.
krestov--- he might have been six but he is a teenager now and was a teenager when he told them he was gay . so he well knew what was going to happen.
There is absolutely no logical reason why homosexuals need to join the BSA. It's just another example of how these errors of nature are trying to further their own agenda.
Why don't they simply start their own "gay" version of the scouts?
Well the answer's simple: it's because no one would give a sh!t except them, it would barely make the news for more than a day or two, and if they can't get maximum exposure for their "cause" what would be the point?
This whole fiasco just confirms what we've always known about homos anyway, and it's that contrary to their assertion that they just want equal rights, what they really want is to be placed on some sort of macabre pedestal and spread their infestation into every facet of our culture in this country.
This should serve as a very serious wake-up call for what the future could hold if conservatives don't coalesce and drive them out, America. And, by the way, they refer to this as progress.
Walking Eagle,
Thank you!
Carry,
Well except for all the same reasons straight people want to join. And, by the way, they already joined. Now they just don't want to live in fear.
THANK YOU BSA!!!!!
I'm glad all the real Americans campaign has caused you to delay any premature decision you may have made. The Boy Scouts have given so much to our great nation it would be a shame to ruin it by changing its outstanding policy that all real Americans agree with.
If the GLBT cabal wants to have a club like this they can just go out and create their own. No one is denying them the ability to do that.
JimSpence -
So I'm not a "real American?" Why not? I've got my birth certificate and everything.
Wait, are you saying that you'd actually try to kick me out of the country because I find everything you hold dear to be laughably pathetic and you're a bottom-feeding anti-intellectual that wants to ruin the country through stupidity?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I've always found this an interesting "argument" ... because, according to Genesis, Eve was made from Adam's rib. Well, if that happened, Eve was cloned and was an EXACT copy of Adam ... and thus a male!
Sara - When did I give my opinion?
The congressional charter is fact, the mission statement and programs of the BSA are facts, the SCOTUS ruling is the law.
LGBT have ignored the law, disagree with the mission and purpose of the BSA, have sued the BSA and have lobbied to revoke the congressional charter.
I don't see any opinions here. These are the facts.
"A"
Laws get changed all the time. Sometimes even the constitution gets changed. Even if SCOTUS ruled that the BSA rules were legal, that doesn't mean that people still have the right to disagree and ask for change.
Here's a great example ... Plessy V Ferguson. In this case, SCOTUS ruled that "separate but equal" was legal. People disagreed and said it was not right. In 1954 it was overturned by Brown v. Board of Ed.
The BSA's idea of allowing local troops to decide was a good answer. It didn't force those sponsored by churches which disagree with homosexuality to accept it. I do suspect that troops sponsored by civic organizations will, because of using public, tax funded facilities if nothing else.
Janstince said: "So I'm not a "real American?" Why not? I've got my birth certificate and everything.
Wait, are you saying that you'd actually try to kick me out of the country because I find everything you hold dear to be laughably pathetic and you're a bottom-feeding anti-intellectual that wants to ruin the country through stupidity?"
BINGO! That's exactly what we're saying. The ideal scenario would be that you liberals are either driven underground, or you're driven out of the country. Kind of like religious persecution only this would be moronic persecution.
Who knows . . . maybe that day isn't as far off as we think.
Scary, huh?
Beth
I agree 100% with the legal process. If there is anything the BSA has done that is illegal or in violation of civil rights please let me know. As far as I know there are no articles or clauses in the constitution or in the Civil Rights bill that guarantees membership in private organizations.
I am also a big supporter of the free enterprise system. Those who think an all integrated BSA program will better server the youth today, are well within their rights to form such a program. If it is the right way, as many here suggest, there should be no problem attracting members and getting all the support they need (except, perhaps from the 70% of units run by churches). I don't understand the need to turn the existing BSA on it's ear to give people a choice.
The BSA's idea may be a good compromise, but it still forces the churches to choose between the tenets of their religion and the BSA. Perhaps if the BSA drops its ban and decides to become fully integrated, the churches will leave the BSA altogether and ban together to create their own program to teach morallity, Duty to God, patriotism and outdoor skills, to morally straight, God fearing boys(the very reasons they sponsored scouting troops in the first place).
A,
Then you don't know what "facts" are. No one is arguing the BSA charter or the SCOTUS ruling. Provide your sources for your accusations against the LGBT community. Then, specifics of who you are going to sue and how they meet each element of each tort you're claiming. And here's a hint, your "statement" of how they have doesn't count. Provide sources to actual events, as to how they have.
And by the way, lobbying is completely legal. So is disagreeing with the BSA.
uchusky99
When did wanting to be treated equal and have the same rights as others become "pushing an agenda?"
---------
I suppose 'pushing fudge' would be more accurate?
Sara,
Any who knowingly join or actively participate in the BSA who do not meet membership requirements have violated the BSA's constitutional rights and have committed fraud. Those mentioned in this article, the Tessier brothers, Jennifer Tyrell and others knowingly continued to associate themselves with the BSA even after SCOTUS. In my "opinion" that puts them in contempt and the BSA could have grounds for harassment charges.
You are free to disagree and lobby all you want. That is your right. I am no lawyer nor am I pressing charges, but disagreeing does not prove the BSA has done anything wrong either. Please cite clauses and articles of the constitution or Civil Rights Bill that guarantees membership into private organizations.
Uh-oh, rain delay.
Get your umbrella the "rainbow" klan is falling.
You are correct. They are a private organization, and if they choose to exclude gays, it IS their right. And you're exactly right that if I don't like the policy then I won't support them. But this is exactly the dilemma BSA is facing right now: whether they want to survive, or fold. Regardless of one's moral or ethical stand, this is simply a fact of what is, not what one wishes it to be. BSA is well within their right to hold the line; and it is also within their right to go down, on principal, with the ship. It is evident that there is a breach in their hull. With repair it can be righted; without repair it will sink. This is the physics of sociology, and denying this truth is like denying that the Titanic was sinking. There can be no future for BSA without accepting gay scouts. Disbanding is also an option, which would not surprise me in the least, should that occur.
What you anti gay people fail to see is that we as gay people have gone threw a lot of struggles to come to terms with who we are.
In my case as a young man, like others I was different, and I knew it, I couldn't say how, but I did know.
In my teens, I searched for answers as to why I am the way I am. I was told by the likes of you that it was because I didn't have enough faith in God, I was told I would burn in hell, I was told that it was against nature. It was all negative. I prayed to God to change me, but it didn't work.
As a young adult in my 20's I had such a negative self image that I was drinking a lot and doing drugs in an attempt to numb the feelings. I got married to a woman and that was a disaster, I then attempted suicide.
While in treatment I learned to accept myself for who I am. All because of attitudes like the anti's I went threw this. It is a different time, our young LGBT don't have to go the same route as I did Thank God, but they still do.
Why can't you just accept people for who they are? Stop the hate in the name of what ever God you understand...Stop it. These are our children and they deserve all the support we can give them to grow up healthy, and to know that they are loved.
BTW, We don't need your pity...We need your understanding. I know that some of you will say..."well that's a tear jerking story..but.....Which tells me you give two @!$%#s less about kids...It's about you...Which is sad.
Rick, actually it's the exact opposite of what you said. I guess that gives us insight into the conversation.
CHECK THIS OUT!!!..................
Im filled with disgust at the pro-gay and the gays community on their continuous attempt at forcing the gay culture on public norm and trying to force their way into our organizations that build community and child growth!
Also, its completely absurd the argument these groups (and certain people on this site!) give on the percentage of pedophiles that are straight vs. gay! They all need to be shot if you ask me but, if the intelligent American would do some research they would find out that the gay culture tries to distort the facts because actually gay pedophiles are called "pederasts"! So, yes if your study only involves the term "pedophile", then the % leans towards the straight community. If you combine the terms "pedophile" and "pederast" the % is overwhelmingly against the gay community!
If you doubt my comments check out Kevin Bishop. He is a major activist for gay/lesbian community and admitted pederast and is gay. He has for decades promoted the NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association (yes, this makes me just wanna vomit!) In an interview, he stated himself, that "if you scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile"!!! This is statements from a head gay activist!!! He has continuously promoted "sexual freedom" and lowering the age of consent for children (huh???, just what I thought!!) In other countries, the gay community are more open on gaining assess to children but in the U.S. they are more circumspect on this and the homosexual activists try and publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles/pederasts as part of a "public relations strategy". But homosexual groups actively recruit youth through groups like The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the Hettrickmartin Institute, AIDS services providers, and various agencies that assist runaway youth!
The gay community use their contacts with our community leaders LIKE Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader!!!!! (Now people can see where all this gay push is being supported!!) This "judge" was an attorney for the ACLU. She co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent be lowered to 12yr old!!! (WHAT??) This can be checked out..."sex bias in the US code", report for the US Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977!!
Reports produced by gay friendly organizations, state that 97% of pedophiles are from heterosexuals. This just "deflects attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children"!! This goes back to the pedophile (adult having sex with child of opposite sex) and pederast (adult having sex with child of same sex) is how they try to get away with these distorted reports! A gay study performed by Jay and Young several years ago reported that 73% of homosexual had sexual intercourse with children 16yrs old and younger! In this study, they found that 80% of the boys who are pedophile victims, were molested by "gay adult males"!!! In a study done in 1985 compared the rates of molestation on pederast vs pedophiles and they come up with these numbers (which is scary as hell!!) by Dr. Paul Cameron, PHD in a average of 20 years found:
-pederast molested 22,981 boys
-pedophiles molested 4,453 girls
...if you do the math, that was 27,434 molestations and nearly 84% was done by homosexuals!!!! (now where is your argument gay activists???)
Now to my point....... in a nationwide investigation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that there was more than 2000 reported molestations by adult male scout leaders!!! As of yet, I have not found newer studies on this subject, but give me time! America needs to stand up and fight these people to the full extent. They are pushing their "wants" on the American people and trying more and more to gain assess to our children! The only thing difference in recent years, is the way the have amended their attacks with abstruse barrages of pity and the liberal side of the ACLU to help!
Don't give in America! We must protect our country, our children, and rights as Americans!!
stop your crying..This is a joke..like you..When I was a Kid in the boy scouts nobody asked my sexual preference. What now we have to advertise it.. always complaining about something..
Steve, thanks for sharing your struggles.
Although gays are born that way, no one is born knowing they are gay. It's a process to come to terms with homosexuality. That process can be hindered by bigots and homophobes, even within the family.
Acceptance of one's homosexuality is a lot easier if general acceptance and support are available...in other words, LOVE. Gays are not lesser human beings. There are already gays in scouting. The right thing to do is to allow gays to be included, openly. Not just in scouting, but in all aspects of life.
Jamie-2626566
Do a fact check with the Kinsey Institute, or Masters & Johnson... at least some organization that has some sort of reputation.
As a gay man myself I will NEVER support NAMBLA, and I have never met anyone in the LGBT community that does. These are sick people that are indeed pedophiles, they need to be arrested and tried.
Do not change BSA, it's a good descision to deny Gays to have influence over our children. The Boy Scout Motto is our national theme and foundation, do not succumb to the LGBT overbearing attitude and influence to change it down to the local levels. This is how they subversily infiltrate you, they use local troops that are under their influence, and then they pervert the BSA MOTTO that we entrust our our loved ones too. Consequently, by taking it out of its context, and only using parts they agree with, and discarding the rest. Secure our BELOVED MOTTO and all its borders, and the futures of our young men who endeavor to put their faith into following it, and endeavor in practicing it for the rest of their lives. Do not let the unchaste sexual behavior of LesbiansGaymenBisexualsTransvestites force their agenda and influence over our emmensily loved youth and future of our legacy.
If you want to be on the rightside of history, be on the proven historical traditions of moral behavioral tendacies that has advanced mankind.
kaybeetoys
Thank you....This is what I'm talking about.
richg8
I too was a scout.....read my post again. We do not wish to ask kids if they are gay, nor do we wish to flash out our being gay. The focus is on what is in the best interest of the children.
The decline of numbers of scouts entering the BSA has been on the decline. Why? Would you think that having a child roaming around getting into trouble or sitting in from of a screen playing a computer game would be better?
We need to engage all of our children to be happy, healthy, and active. This is what makes a child into a strong adult.
I might also add here that We in the LGBT community by and large have more disposable income and can support the BSA even if there is a mass drop out of support financially by you that claim to be supporting them.
steve , i also have to fight with desires i have everyday , sometimes i win & sometimes i lose , my struggles are every bit as volatile as yours . I am a heterosexual , yet , i have to fight urges to see women in that light . I also am born with those desires & in my heart , i have cheated on my wife many times over , if not in the flesh . Your sins , are no worse than mine & you are as much loved by God as anyone . The problem comes when we refuse to see sin for what it is , because it is our sin , that is the bridge to Christ & when we deny that , we burn that bridge. Scripture says we are BORN into sin & yes , it is natural. I do believe that to a large degree , homosexuality is a "born" trait . Yet , we still have a choice on wether to indulge that that born trait. I do believe that you can be gay & saved ,i also believe a heterosexual that lusts can be saved , i also believe a liar or thief can be saved (that doesnt mean i can cease from seeking to a closer walk with Him). Christ didnt come for the perfect ppl , he came for ppl like me , who know they need Him , his grace , his mercy & his love. I am so sorry for any that have hurt you, . I will however not apologize for anyone that states truth. It must be done in love & in the light , that as we judge , we also will be judged in that same light. So i will throw no stones , but simply offer the hand of friendship & encouragement. I do believe that as much as you try to avoid the concept of a God , you want as much as anyone , to believe there is one & one that is all loving & ever patient & one who gives hope & that there is more to this life , than a cold grave & nothing when this life is over. BTW , on my last day , i will need God's mercy & grace , as much as when i first met him & thats ok , as i will always seek to give as i have recieved. Thats all he asks. He doesnt ask me or you or anyone for perfection & i say this as one who is as needy as anyone.
If you believe in a God who created us all and loves us all, then logically you must accept that God created gays and loves them too.
We don't know why some people are born with same-sex attraction, but to ask those who are to spend their lives alone and without love seems cruel and needless to me. Who are they hurting by loving each other?
We need more love and acceptance in this world, not less.
The founder of Boy Scouts formed his club by using skills taught by soldiers. An American brought it back to the United States and with others formed the Boy Scouts here. One of those founders did not totally agree with the makeup of the club so he left and formed his own club.
Why can't the gay community form their own club based on several ideals of scouting (that they seem to like) but with the changes they want? Why do they have to destroy this club? This is a private club and they don't have to join if they don't like how it is run. This club is not mandatory. Build your own. There will obviously be people who will support your club and you can set it up the way you want.
I promise not to come in and try to change your club or sue you for the way you run it.
The BS are in a no-win situation; if they keep the ban, they'll continue to lose more 'mainstream' funding and membership. If they get rid of it, the religious groups (notably the Mormans, Southern Baptists, and Catholics) may pull out, again with a hit on funding and membership. The proposed solution (allowing local councils to decide) is the best choice, but the religious groups are upset that they'll lose their 'right' to impose their beliefs on others. Right now, the national council is running budget numbers, trying to figure out how badly they'll get hurt depending on which choice they make.
Lost in this is the issue of the kids. As has been pointed out, being gay isn't a choice in spite of the ignorant posters here. Given the level of discrimination shown gays, who in their right mind would 'choose' to be gay? Can you choose to be black? And what about the straight kids that have been adopted by gay parents? Are they to be punished for their parent(s) 'sins'?
This is a bigotry vs money issue, and chances are good that money will win. When bigots put their hand out for a donation, there's fewer and fewer people willing to give these days.
Personally, I think the national council should call the Mormans bluff; eliminate the ban, and if the religious groups pull out, cut them off from the national group totally. Recind their right to use any of the BSA copyrighted material, make them build their own organization from scratch.
stimulatingsolutions
See I don't have a problem with your stand. At least your somewhat rational, and not radical about it.
I know a lot of LGBT that are very religious, and have talked with them as well as others at length about "God". The conclusion I have come to is that , I am made in the lords image, God didn't make garbage, loves me for who I am, and is loving,caring and always forgiving, & never punishing.
For what would God be if fear of punishment was all that there was to offer for non-accpetance of God? What type of a God would that be? What would be the grand motivator of that God?
God needs our love in order to feel that of our personal commitment of love, not only to God but to each other as we are.
Jane from Colorado
A seprate group?
So many of these kids are in the same classes at school. I remember wearing my BSA uniform on scouting days. My school had several different troops, but our uniforms where the same. So what your suggesting we do is isolate kids by placing them in a different program all together.
That is surely going to make kids feel better about themselves, like they belong.
Can you see how absurd & harmful to children your suggestion is?
Why can't the gays leave Boy Scouts of America alone? Why can't they be tolerant of folks who don't want to be gay and don't want their children exposed to gay leadership at some remote camp site. Clearly we are in a cultural war; those who want sexual promiscuity of all kinds against those who don't. Those who do are engaged in a jihad of legal harassment against every organization that opposes them. The only reason BSA is entertaining this decision is because they are tired of all the law suits being shoved in their face by the gay activists. Boy Scouts of America needs to make a stand against this harassment and show true courage. By the way, those who want every kind of sexual desire to be fulfilled will find new and even more disgusting ways to express themselves and will continue to demand society approve of their deviant behavior. So don’t think this war will be over when you approve gay scout leaders. Next it will be sex with multiple people, robots, animals, you name it. Society is on a downward spiral. I don't buy the pretentious arguments that gay supporters are somehow more enlightened. It is complete nonesense.
kaybee , nobody is saying gays must spend their lives alone , i can have so deep a love for an individual & not have sex with them , even of the same sex , in fact , i have found that the most rewarding of loves , are loves where i recieve nothing , except the joy in loving & meeting the needs of another . I have a daughter that is 29 yrs old & she has never walked or talked or said daddy or hugged me & yet , she has taught me more about love than any preacher . Only by pouring out love as easily or unreservedly as i have recieved , can i truly see the real rewards of loving another.
Jane, little boys in cub scouts don't know if they are gay or straight. Sexual identity is not a pressing issue for them at such a young age... so how would they know which group to join?
@Steve-3564331.............as usual, any study that goes against the gay culture, is stated as false, misleading, etc. by people such as yourself! Then your culture and its supporters hires some "friendly" doctor to dispute the findings! Look, the facts are the facts no matter how you try to smooth them over! Conservatives have learned to be more accepting of the gay community BUT you and your community MUST stop pushing themselves on mine! Just because we dont agree doesn't mean that the we are bigots or any other verbal assault placed by gays and gay supporters on the conservative community!
If your community wants to be more accepted, equal rights, etc then how about forming your own scouts, your own community functions, etc. Then provide your own leaders to run your scout organizations. Heck, maybe even have Scout organized competitions, etc. That way there are less of a chance of anything inappropriate happening....;) Then maybe, even though we don't agree, we can all find a way to coexist without infringing on the conservative way of life. Because forcing your way of life, trying to force infiltrate our culture, and trying to change our right to exist as we see fit IS JUST WRONG! Just think how you felt when you say you were pushed to be straight!
lol , somewhat rational? ummm , i supose thats a compliment, although i am to the right of genghis khan on conservatism , to quote steve brown. Steve , God dont need anything or anyone , but God desires to share & show love. It is his nature to create & to share & to love , hence , the verse .... God IS love. Steve , if possible , could you contact me on this nick at yahoo.com. thank you.
Yet, stimulatingsolutions, you judge those who are homosexually attracted as 'sinners' and would deny them a sexual outlet and the chance at physical bonding with a loved one, when it hurts no one.
In fact, it is no one's business what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their bedroom, as long as no one is harmed.
The same holds true no matter what your sexual orientation, unless you'd want someone dictating your sexual practices with your wife?
How would that be enforced? Frightening...
Jamie-2626566
Nobody from the gay community hired these people...They where studying & publishing results of studies long before I came along and I'm in my 50's.
The DSMR
Masters & Johnson
Kinsey Institute
No one from the LGBT community had to pay for what conclusions they came to. To suggest that some how we did is insane and shows a total lack of understanding about the study of Human Sexuality & the scientific approach.
stimulatingsolutions
I respect your point of view. As per the somewhat rational. It doesn't mean I total buy it.
See the problem is that I do have freedom of religion here in the US as guaranteed by our Constitution.
I/we can easily get into a debate about is whose version is right, but to what point? To find that there are some things we agree on while there are others we won't and never will.
That is the danger of crossing the line and entering just one forum of religion into this debate with reguards to the BSA. Hence the suggestion by the BSA guidelines to use the guidance of family and religious groups to help guide one with the oath to God.
Sigh, didn't want to get dragged in, but here goes:
Firstly, pederasty = a crime, whereby an adult molests or rapes a child of minority age. Pedophile = somebody with an attraction to children, who may or may not act on that attraction.
Right there, that is the definition. So, pederasty != pedophile because pedophiles do not always end up acting on their desire for children.
Now, I'm just dismissing all your bull@!$%# about gay = pedophile or pederast or whatever. Done, gone, blink of an eye, worthless garbage. Won't argue, don't bother trying, you're just wrong. I've been over it too many times, and I still keep hearing the same worthless crap over and over and over. I'll let others deal with it this time, as they choose.
Secondly: why don't we get the chance to change people's minds? You Christians do it all the time. You're on here, witnessing, proselytizing, and generally making asses of yourselves with your stupid little quotes and proverbs and psalms and what the @!$%# ever. It's like, you don't even realize that the bible is one book in an entire history of written language, and that one book doesn't even make sense with itself, much less the outside world. But, still, you have the freedom of speech that allows you to make asses of yourselves with your "reasoning."
But, whenever an atheist or an LGBT person wants to use that same freedom of speech, you seem to be all for censorship. Know who else does that? Russia. They're making it illegal to "promote homosexuality" (by which they mean basically come out of the closet or inform other homosexuals they aren't alone in the world). They're mulling blasphemy laws, again, and the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox Church is all for more power for him, to protect the religious fee-fees of people who are most likely doing the bullying. So then, the religious morons get to hate and bash anyone they want, and the law protects them from anything even approaching criticism, much less fighting back.
You want to tell me to shut up? I'll shut up when you do. When you get your religious whackos out of the law writing business, when you stop pretending that creationism or creationism 2.0 (intelligent design) are science, when you stop closing your minds to facts and stop actively fighting to impose your view on everyone else. Until then, have a nice day, and I hope your blood pressure shot up at least 2 points reading this.
Don't make the mistake that we LGBT haven't thought about or tried to find out if your right.
A lot of soul searching and talking to religious leaders.
Looking at is there a mental reason & talking to mental professionals.
Is it all about lust.
Is it a choice.
Is it how we are raised.
Why are we different.
Those questions and a boat load of others are why it takes someone time to come out as being LGBT.
We have to examine our lives at every level, which I might add is something Heterosexuals don't have to do. You may have the same sort of questions in your life. But you don't have to look very far, as yours is the majority and most acceptable by society.
Steve,
Yep. There are also several "groups" within a class. I know all children are not tolerant, even in school. This would not be isolating them as they would have a whole group of other like-minded children to be with. Surely this would make them feel more like belonging than what they are going through now.
Hurt the children? I think that forcing children into situations that they don't want to be in for the sake of people pushing their agendas hurts them more than anything.
A new club that is formed with their own rules that accepts everyone can only help those that are feeling that they don't belong and leaves other organizations whom you don't agree with, alone.
kaybee , i will call it as it is , dont like it , get over it , i am a believer of Christ & i not only accept His standards of sin universally , that means , unbiased , as i stated , im a bigger sinner than most . I do not dictate who sleeps with whom & i do not try to change anyone , i cant even change myself , you are attacking me for accepting what reason &logic has shown me to be truth, even on an intellectual level , involving the sciences ,,, ie physics & historical evidences. There is no such thing as blind faith , scripture says that faith is the substance of things hoped for AND THE EVIDENCE OF THINGS UNSEEN. If you want to deny God and his truth as revealed in scripture , go ahead , i will not judge you, not my job. My job is to love & share as i am loved & given.
Jane from Colorado
Did you even read any of the articles?
These people where already in the BSA. No one was forcing anyone especially children. I don't know what your referring to here:
Are you saying that by Gays in the BSA it would be forcing children into something? If so, what exactly would that be?
How come the Girl Scouts have lifted the ban and they haven't fallen apart? Please explain.
How come in other countries that have lifted the ban on Gays in the Boy Scouts haven't fallen apart and been plagued by sexual misconduct? Please explain.
Believe whatever works for you, but do not expect others to be persuaded by your beliefs any more than you are persuaded by theirs. Accept the fact that man is, first and foremost, a creature of reason.
Those who are ready to understand truth will find their way to it without my intervention.
I am not attacking you, but pointing out the lack of logic in your position.
Peace out.
It seems to me that you would want someone to be open about being gay, that way you can watch them very closely to make sure there is no inappropriate behaviour.
I would think that is better than taking the risk that your subjecting your child to a possible pedophile that you don't know is there.
I also suggest that if you object to gays in the BSA, start a club of your own...I'm sure the KKK has some extra sheets as their membership has been dropping.
kaybeetoys said: "If you believe in a God who created us all and loves us all, then logically you must accept that God created gays and loves them too."
This is a common argument by homos and their supporters, and the reason it's an epic fail is because everything changed in the New Testament when God purportedly gave us two things: Jesus and free will.
Yes, he created everyone to be equal, but the Bible teaches that he doesn't interfere in the decisions we make in our lives, so if this is true then it would explain away everything from DUI's, to rapists, to pedophiles, to murderers, to homosexuals and on and on. Yes, they were all created equally, but the poor choices they've made in their lives are in direct contradiction with what the Bible teaches and, to continue down this line of thinking, they'll pay the Piper when they die and meet God himself.
With that said, I don't happen to believe in God, I hate organized religion with a passion, and I believe the Bible was written by men with the sole purpose of controlling the masses. However, I grew up in the Bible belt, attended Protestant, Baptist and Pentecostal churches for years, and have actually read the Bible all the way through, which is more than 99% of you self-proclaimed theologians (liberals and conservatives) can claim.
And, Steve: They did start a club of their own; it's called the Boy Scouts of America.
It's beyond me how you have apparently been completely missing the central point of this issue.
Carryingconcealed
I'm not surprised at your response. The BSA belongs to all not a few....It's beyond me how you have apparently been completely missing the central point of this issue.
Carryingconcealed This is from the BSA web site.
Note that the Boy Scout Oath has traditionally been considered to have three promises. Those three promises are delineated by the semicolons in the Oath, which divide it into three clauses. The three promises of the Scout Oath are, therefore:
DUTY TO GOD AND COUNTRY: Your FAMILY and religious leaders teach you to know and serve God. By following these teachings, you do your duty to God.
Men and women of the past worked to make America great, and many gave their lives for their country. By being a good family member and a good citizen, by working for your country's good and obeying its laws, you do your duty to your country. Obeying the Scout Law means living by its 12 points.
DUTY TO OTHER PEOPLE: Many people need help. A cheery smile and a helping hand make life easier for others. By doing a Good Turn daily and helping when you're needed, you prove yourself a Scout and do your part to make this a better world.
DUTY TO SELF: Keeping yourself physically strong means taking care of your body. Eat the right foods and build your strength.Staying mentally awake means learn all you can, be curious, and ask questions. Being morally straight means to live your life with honesty, to be clean in your speech and actions, and to be a person of strong character.
Now where does it say any one faith in God. It doesn't. It charges the FAMILY & RELIGIOUS LEADERS...Not you or I, not one God over any other.....Get off your cross.
"...it's the exact opposite" you say? What 'it' are you talking about!?! Please make a coherent argument, because all you're saying with that comment is "I know you are, but what am I?" Not much of an argument.
Carryingconcealed
What no more bigot remarks?
Are you finding it hard to defend your stand against gays?
Or are you just finding it hard to follow the conversation?
I know it's hard to go up against someone that doesn't back down and uses facts not fiction. If your going to make blanket statements then you'd better be able to back it up with fact from some reputable source, not some obscure thought or person.
The agreements people like you make are the same ones made to try and convince people that blacks should not marry whites.
Typo in last statement agreements should be arguments
Apologies, Steve, for not sitting at my keyboard waiting with bated breath for your response.
However, since I'm here now I'll respond to your first post regarding the three promises of the BSA's oath.
If you'll notice, #1 says Duty to God and country. Well, if you're claiming duty to God, and the Bible clearly states that a man is not to lay with another man, then it seems pretty clear to me that they can't tolerate homosexuality within their ranks. (I want to make clear that I am an atheist so none of that means anything to me)
As far as me being a bigot because I believe your lifestyle choice sucks (pun intended), for the record I am also disgusted by pedophiles, members of NAMBLA, men who abuse women, all members of NOW, all members of PETA, and let's go ahead and throw in the NAACP and the ACLU.
Now, does that make me a bigot where all of them are concerned as well, or can I simply disagree with the majority of their platform, as well as how they go about their business?
I don't hate you, Steve, and you would never know how I feel if you and I met in person because I don't go out of my way to try and make people feel badly about who they are, but this is a forum where people are being frank and in that spirit, I've been vocal regarding my feelings about homosexuality.
I honestly couldn't care less what you do behind closed doors just as I'm sure you feel the same, but it's the constant in-your-face tactics you use to force your agenda on everyone that pisses me off.
Carryingconcealed
As soon as we get equal rights under the law...The sooner you will hear less about it....Until then your going to keep hearing us take a stand.
We will not be dismissed & marginalized. Just as you would not be dismissed & marginalized if this was in reverse. And that's what pisses me off....mmmkay
So much complete ignorance abounds with this issue. This controversy was started because a scout who had been a member for as many as ten years fulfilled the requirements for Eagle Scout. This young man realized he was gay as an older teen. He did not have any idea he was gay when he joined scouts in elementary school. One's sexual orientation evolves. For this teen to be hit in the face and told he could not be approved as an Eagle Scout because he is gay is the issue. People have turned this around to concoct all sorts of mis-information and distortions of truth to suggest that gays are trying to force their "lifestyle" on everyone and molest children. Open your minds and see the real issue. What a shame to waste one's mind with bigotry and hatred. Some of you act like gay people have a deadly disease that will zap you dead if come within ten feet of them. The fact is there are many gay people you come into contact with regularly--you just don't know it. You have even shaken hands with some! This is akin to the Salem witch hunts.
So I understand: to be Gay also means to be homosexual... am I wrong with this
thought. Will a gay scout be offended by a heterosexual scout who is looking at playboy or
penthouse? or is it not morally straight to view pornography but morally straight to be gay...gay as in a man having sex with another man and a woman having sex with another woman...
French forever
ok gay & homosexual are the same
scouts having naked pictures of any kind is prohibited.
I have raised the issue of men that watch straight porn before in these debates....I've pointed out that they are watching another man have sex with a woman....That seems pretty gay to me, but they see it different because a woman is involved....Never mind the fact that they are getting off on the mans movement and orgasm, as it can be seen, as oppose to the females internal orgasm.
Yes I am gay. lol hope that helps.
Steve,
Thank you for your thoughtful argument and your use of the term
"man". I mention this because we are discussing boys. I am a heterosexual
man with two boys who are not of age. The subject brings up an adult issue that
is best meant for men and woman over the age of 18. The real argument is that
it is not morally straight for me and my boys (until they are 18) to engage in homosexually
but that might not apply to you… It might be morally straight for you to be gay
and homosexual but it never will be for me or by boys (until they are 18)…
French forever
I can respect that.
I hope you did not think that the LGBT community is trying to do anything more that help these kids in any way they can to grow into healthy happy adults. We have no interests in converting anyone. A lot of us have children ourselves and only want what is best for them, just as you do for you children.
If they want to go into the BSA we can only hope that they are treated with respect. We also teach our kids to respect others, which I think they get. That means that as a whole the community can only benefit.
I wrote the struggles I went threw growing up and coming out briefly in a previous post here... You can go back and read it if you wish #2.3
Kaybee toys , you said i judge others & that is not true , i said SCRIPTURE says what sin is , i do however accept those criteria even though im guilty , if you dont , fine , no skin off my back , in fact , here is your quote
Yet, stimulatingsolutions, you judge those who are homosexually attracted as 'sinners' and would deny them a sexual outlet and the chance at physical bonding with a loved one, when it hurts no one.
scripture doesnt say that those who have homosexual attractions are sinners , scripture says those that act on that desire are sinning. In fact , scripture is tougher on me , it says that if i even so much as lust (not act on that lust) but merely lust after another woman , i am guilty of sin.
i dont deny anyone anything , ppl will do as they please & as for wether it hurts anyone , that remains to be seen. If i love someone , their welfare should be placed before mine or my wants or desires. If there is even the slightest chance that there is a God & he is the God of scripture , then the consequences are his to determine. PPL arent condemned for sin , everyone sins , ppl are condemned for not believing & not accepting the payment made for their sin. Forgiveness is free to anyone that will accept , but it wasnt free for the 1 that paid for them. I also do not try to persuade anyone , God reveals himself to any that will seek him. My job is merely to point in His direction . Go ahead & deny him...............
Let the chartering organizations make the call, all membership is approved by them first anyway. Let the local organizations make the policy if they see fit, the BSA should stop being the fall guy for the whole organization.
Exactly!
That's what I don't get about this. The National Board is basically holding the lower organizations hostage. I thought the religious nutjobs were against central government control /snark.
Seriously, though, why do they want to be the fall guy? By relinquishing the rule to the lower organizations, the decent ones can stop having to take all this @!$%# for the bigotted ones, and the bigotted ones can still be bigots. Are there more bigots at the national level than elsewhere?
That's a ridiculous concept. If they can all make their own policy decisions, then let them also call themselves whatever they want, because they'd no longer be "one" organization.
Im a bigot because i dont want a fag being my childs teacher, f you
My doesn't want to go to boy scouts now because he is afraid of a gay adult touching him.
Looking then you are the one that taught him that bigotry.
I assume you don't let him go to Catholic Church either?
That is just a ploy to absolve the national organization from responsibility. In other words: It is not OUR fault that council will not allow your homosexual son to join. SUE THEM, NOT US.
It is all about the MONEY. FOLLOW THE MONEY.
I didn't teach him anything, he said he got that from all the other guys at school.
The BSA has stoked the media sensation surrounding this issue and dumped more gas on the flames by kicking the can down the road. They're stuck in a corner now because no decision they make will please everyone, making both friends and enemies simultaneously. Not only will they lose membership long term but they will lose funding from different sources and cease to exist.
Then everyone can be happy because the BSA won't exist anymore then people will have to go find another organization to throw rocks at.
The point the Left is missing as usual is that if the national BSA organization lifts the ban and puts the choice onto the local councils, this opens the local councils to lawsuits. Local councils will not longer be protected by the Supreme Court decision protecting them.
BSA is a private organization. No private organization should let anyone, let alone perverts, push and socially coerce their way into their organization.
**I'm glad these gay boys have made Eagle Scout. However, Scouting is all about the Scouting Oath and being morally straight.
Scouting has nothing to do with an individual promoting, pushing his brand of sexuality onto others and the organization. Don't ask don't tell!
The National Board is being held hostage by the major sponsors like Intel, who are dictating the terms of what it will take to get back that 700K a year. If INTEL is saying that they won't tolerate the local organizations having the ability to discriminate, then that's going to be a stumbling block.
Absolutely.
Frankly:
Actually you can be a Christian and not be Catholic.
Dont forget to factor this in. If they openly allow Gays and this happens to my 11 year old son I will sue them from HELL TO BREAKFAST!
Boy Scout leader charged with sodomizing Scout
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/boy-scout-leader-charged-with-sodomizing-scout/#lZ1QSBmSjfiuw1Xl.99
With all due respect, Shovelface, how can you be certain your 11 year old son is not gay? At his age, he hasn't experienced puberty yet.
I abhor child abuse, but it's a fact that pedophiles (like Jerry Sandusky) are typically heterosexual, even the ones who rape boys.
My advice is to keep the lines of communication open with your boy, let him know he can tell you anything and you won't judge him, make him aware of pedophiles, and keep your eyes and ears open. Pedophiles are masters at manipulaing kids and parents into trusting them. (Jerry Sandusky again.)
If by chance it turns out your son is gay, he's going to need all the love and support you can give him. Don't let him down.
I believe in the BSA's right to include or exclude anyone if they do not follow the code of ethics established by the organization. Why do gay persons want to be involved anyway/ Why are they forcing, or trying, to force the BSA to accept their behaviour? Isn't that exactly what they want people to do is accept them and their beliefs, can they then do the same to the BSA, accept them for the beliefs they stand by and leave them alone. If gay people want a group similar then begin one that allows gay to be included. BSA has never said they hate gay people, they only disagree with the actions and beliefs of gay people. So do gay people then hate so called straight people? It sounds to me as if the gay rights movement needs to act on what they preach.
Jerry Sandusky was a homosexual who tried to use marriage to a woman to cover his homosexuality.. Got a brother who married a woman, had 2 kids then came out as gay, saying he always knew he was gay. Any man or woman, gay or straight, who molests a child, boy child or girl child is nothing more than a RAPIST CRIMINAL and prosecution to the fullest extent of the law need be applied~
HollyHope, perhaps Sandusky is gay and perhaps not.
But in the case of your brother... why do you think he married a woman? Might it be that he didn't want to accept his homosexuality and hoped a woman could change him? Maybe it was a cover to escape the disapproval of society, friends and family? Maybe he wanted a family life, with a spouse and children, and couldn't have that as a gay man?
All that turmoil is avoidable these days. When gays are accepted for who they are, they are happier and so is society. Women aren't used as cover and then abandoned. Children grow up knowing who and what their parents are. Gays become stable, contributing members of society.
We have no right to force gays to live a life in the closet or to live a lie.
Interesting Holly - your brother always knew he was gay, sounds like he was born that way to me.
Jerry Sandusky was not gay. He was a pedophile. He was attracted to children, not to men (otherwise, he would have had relations with JoPa perhaps). He asserted (publicly) that he loves children. That is much different from asserting you love an adult of the same gender. Pedophilia is about having power and control/domination over someone else, it is not about gender. Pedophilia usually occurs with pre-pubescent children of both sexes because, again, it's about power and control. Please pick up a psychology book.
This matter is complex but quite simple socially stripped of all the hype: The BSA should neither promote nor discourage membership and association based upon sexual preference. However, the organization purposefully conflated rigid religion beliefs and outdated social correctness for decades to the point of encouraging radical thinking and desperate people to promote and cling to harmful religious dogma and liturgy as opposed to love, tolerance and graciousness.
I give them their legal right to do whatever they wish within the bounds of the law; if that is at odds with tolerance and love of their fellow man, then they should expect to be increasingly called on their position . . . and they have been and will be until tolerance and love wins the day.
To permit a young boy who hasn't yet become aware or settled the matter of his sexual preference to join as a Cub Scout and then later hold them in contempt and expel them if they come out is grievous in the extreme. It may be legal but it is grievous and people exhibiting that kind of behavior will suffer the discomfort of their beliefs and related actions therein.
There's no easy answer for the BSA now; simply, there is the tolerant and loving thing to do versus looking good to an ever-growing minority while clinging to a once beautiful organization that is now in a death spiral of hate and intolerance.
R
Everyone has convenient memories. The Boy Scouts successfully "Duped" the Supreme Court in 2000. They argued that admitting gay members would violate their "Core Values." Now, they are really on the hot seat, not over gays, but for duping the Supreme Court. They had a calculated manuever to grant Churches, and objecting groups, to selectively apply the "right" to discriminate against gay members. That would be a politically correct -- slick move, but if they did that, the courts would revisit any decisions made in the past: the new position invalidating the old Essentially, the BSA, sold their soul to the Devil, for a "Constitutional Shield Against Gays." Now, any change, would make any past or future gay statement -- convenient truth, and they know it. Corporations have already withdrawn support, some Cities (Boise) have past criminal ordinances protecting for LBGT discrimination. Without a clear Constitutional Shield, a host of lawsuits from both sides, would result.
Supreme Court Desenting Opinion
lurch-2891806, you are suspended for a week for violating rules # 1 and # 5 of the Code of Honor.
Don't use gay slurs please, and don't make personal attacks.
Pathetic!
Take your time and do what is right. Don't get pushed into something that is not right for the kids.
That is why at my sons school they are begging for membership. They have signs up in the parking lot. No or low members and they would soon be extinct. Good for them. Religion or no religion God would never exclude anyone. He may not condone some of our actions but he is a forgiving God. Who is the Boy scouts to play God and judge.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
What a tard, Look at the bible before you spout off about what god would do. You ever hear of Sodom and Gomorrah?? They fried the whole town because the men of the town wanted to have sexual relations with the male angels. Let the gay boys join girl scouts.
But those of us who consider ourselves Christian believe in following the teachings of Jesus rather than advocating the hatred and killing found in the Old Testament. How did Jesus treat those who were ostracized by society?
Kayli/Then you let GOD handle his business. He does not need you are the Boy Scouts to do his work. What God needs is for everyone to mind their own damn business and this world would be a better place. But no we have people that are so quick to quote the bible and begin to judge others. If they are going to hell , oh well, why are so worried about? You need to worry about God judging you judging others.
are you people serious??!!! Gay men do not TOUCH little boys, pedophiles do! They are NOT the same thing!! and for the person who posted they did not want a "gay" person teaching your child, well, guess what? You probably already do! Stop being so closed minded! These people are ALREADY involved in scouts, just like they were in the military, they are just NOT telling you because you are all biggots!
So, if we turn a blind eye and allow God to be the sole arbiter then who will handle all of the additional emotionally and physically abused children that will result from that?
Just read an article on how Canadian Scouts has been destroyed when they let every tom, dick and harry in. THAT is the goal here. Infiltrate and destroy. NOT about privilege.
kweenliz - people like you are the reason this country/world is in the condition it is. EVERYTHING is OK because that is the politically correct thing to do. When you dont stand for something, you will fall for everything. Homosexuality is wrong, God created Adam and Eve, period.
The moral decline of this country is discouraging to say the least. Commercials that make me at 45 uncomfortable, I certainly dont want my 7 y/o daughter watching.
I miss the days of "Leave it to Beaver."
@princessbride - I missed that part of the bible that suggested Jesus forced privately owned clubs or businesses to include the ostracized folks. Unless of course you're overreaching, knowing that he reached out to the needy, but did not force them upon anyone, and the fact that gays probably weren't part of this ostracized group of people you have mentioned. Unless of course you associate gays with the disabled, deformed and the lepers?
No, I don't associate gays with lepers - but Jesus reached out to many other people who were shunned by society - based on their marital status, job, ethnicity, and so on - and showed them his love, not the back side of a door. Jesus did not force his teachings on others, but his example of compassion and charity is one that many would do well to remember. I find it incompatible to claim to follow the teachings of Christ, and yet believe that the judgement rendered on Soddom and Gommorah - pre-Christ judgements - is an appropriate response to the question of homosexuality. The message of Jesus is very different from the message of the Old Testament.
Remember Jesus when he reached out to the prostitute he also told her "to sin no more" - Yes Jesus forgives and is compassionate but you have to follow his rules as well...It can be hard of course for all of us do sin...
Womanstrong:
God does not want us to mind our own business...he wants us to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, etc - you know the bible...You have the wrong idea
Exactly, like having your kid sodomized by a Gay scout leader!
Dont forget to factor this in. If they openly allow Gays and this happens to my 11 year old son I will sue them from HELL TO BREAKFAST!
Boy Scout leader charged with sodomizing Scout
Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/02/boy-scout-leader-charged-with-sodomizing-scout/#lZ1QSBmSjfiuw1Xl.99
PrincessBride, Exactly--Jesus DIED for them. He didn't said it was OK for them to keep sinning. Also, Jesus IS the same God of the Old Testament and the New. Always was, always will be. He is consistent even though we are not. Homosexuality was not ok in the OT and is still not in the NT. Same God. He loves us enough to tell us not to touch the hot stove top, not say "it's ok if you feel like it, I'll still love you..." He knows sin is bad for us because it pulls us away from Him so he tells us not to do it. Those that love Him will avoid sin out of love for Him. Avoiding sin for any other reason is just worthless behaviorism, and won't accomplish anything of value.
So does your wife sleep in the woodshed one weekend a month? I believe the uncleanliness of women was also taught in the old testament. And hating a sin is not the same as hating the sinner. Throwing these boys out - removing their support system - is not going to stop them from doing what you consider to be a sin.
God created Adam and all other men as well, right ? Some of those men are homosexual, and not by choice.
Think about it, Dave. Did you choose YOUR sexuality? Or did it come naturally to you? If you had felt a sexual attraction to other men, would you have embraced that or struggled against it? Imagine the feelings of a young boy who knows he's 'different' but doesn't understand how or why. He just wants a normal life, like everyone else. He does not want to be gay. He's confused and frightened. Gays often attempt suicide out of self-loathing... and we add to their burden by judging them and shunning them.
Your karma might just be to have a gay child...it could happen to any of us. I hope that if it happens in your life, you will be the kind of father who helps your child, not the kind who makes it worse.
We all miss the innocence of childhood. But the priviledges of adulthood come with burdens, and one of those burdens is to uphold morality by being compassionate and tolerant of those who are different.
Love the creation story. "Eve" as the story goes, was begat from Adam's rib. Science tells us that "Eve" would be an exact genetic clone - an XY male. "Eve," according to science, was actually Steve and the first biblical couple was actually a gay couple.
So many religious people will use "science and nature" to justify their prejudice, but they completely disregard science and nature when it comes to just about anything else.
We already tarnished our military with Obamas openly gays policy. Why the big deal for the Boy Scouts? The whole country has thrown out all common sense and morals. There are no boundries anymore. What ever group cries the loudest gets what they want. It dosen't matter what the majority feels or what our founding fathers fought for, it's all gone.
Nope, don't let the homo's in.....offer them the opportunity to join the girl scouts.
It's the RIGHT thing!
"right" of course, just discriminatory...
More the right wing thing than the right thing
YOu people do know that the founder of the Scouts Lord Baden Powell was gay don't you?
frankly true, you knew powell in person, you are an idiot, everyone knew that it would only take days before you faggets started saying the founder was gay. Frankly your just a idiot and a bigot and a racists
We need more time to decide whether or not to continue being a hate group...
Scott -- They are not a hate group. Do you hate them for that?
That is exactly right. Even having to debate this says a lot.
Scott, Don't be ridiculous. Hate has nothing to do with it. Sexual preference has everything to do with it.
A hate group openly targets another. The KKK and Black Panthers are hate groups. The BSA is a private group for kids that teaches how to camp, fish and serve others. Hardly the definition of hate. Sexuality is not even discussed.
Scott, you are a hotefull piece of crap. you must be a gay guy looking to become a leader
Scott Are they not a private organization? If you dont like their position on this the answer is simple..... don't support scouting
Exactly. So why is a person's sexuality even an issue? The paranoia that so many have exhibited on this thread already would be laughable if you werent actually serious,which sadly, I think most of you are....You're so hell bent on assuming gay people are child molesters that you let "manly" men like Jerry Sandusky or the "God serving" priests slip right by to molest kids for years under the guise of being "real leaders"....
Kelly - I have one thing to say about your post. OUCH, right in the nads!
XYZYX, don't be ridiculous. Sexual preference has nothing to do with it. Loss of Corporate Sponsorship has EVERYTHING to do with it.
Scott,
God hates sin. Sodomy is a sin to God. Time for you and like minded persons to repent and stop hating His righteous truth.
Gen. 4:7 "If you (Cain) do what is right (What God calls right.), will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."" NIV
David... Ray Lewis continues to tell me that God never made a mistake. As a Ravens fan, I believe Ray!
Every homosexual I've ever met has said the same thing, "This was not a choice. You think I enjoy this hate and discrimination? Do you think I enjoyed seeing the look on my Dad's face when I told him?"
Homosexuality is not a choice and there's lots of evidence pointing to the hypothalamus gland in the brain. Homosexuals WERE CREATED BY GOD, maybe even purposely to test the "faithful" on His teachings of tolerance and judgement. Since it's clear God made homosexuals, RAY LEWIS MUST BE RIGHT. GOD HAS NEVER MADE A MISTAKE!!!
Wow, what a spin. Why must you label it a "hate" group, instead of a moral group? Seems to me the militant homosexuals, lesbians, transgenders, necrophiliacs, zoophiliacs, and the members of NMBLA who are steamrolling forced acceptance of moral turpitude in this country are the haters.
In a way, though, I am glad they are all so militant and hateful and blowing (no pun intended) their money on politicians to get their immoral way. It is now starting to create a very clear dilineation between the moral and immoral groups.
Kelly
I agree a person's sexuality shouldn't be an issue. You hit on a good point, gay does not equate to deviant or pervert. I would be much more afraid of a NAMBLA member leading a troop than a gay person. (I reference two of today's most revered philosophers in Trey Parker and Matt Stone in their BSA - South Park episode).
However, the more overriding point is that it is a private group and it is perfectly legal for them to exclude gays if they want. Just because someone wants to participate in a private organization, does not mean they have the right to do so.
If it is truly a private organization, then there needs to be ZERO dollars or absolutely no type of contributions or "freebies" by any state,local, or federal government. The day we can confirm that is the case is the day that the BSA can go about it's merry way, picking and choosing whoever they want to be a part of the organization.
Then you will have no problem with removing any and all federal student loans, grants and guarantees from all women's colleges, including the 'private' ones. Further, every non-profit organization that is not all inclusive would then loose their tax favored status. This would include many gay rights groups, women's organizations (planned parenthood), the NAACP, the Congressional Black and Hispanic Caucuses, etc. If you are going to apply a standard, you must apply it equally to everyone.
It's all in how you define morality. To me, the essence of goodness is kindness. It is not judgment of others, for we are ALL sinners.
I'm disappointed in Americans like you. Are you aware of all the children who are born with two sets of sexual organs, or ambiguous sexual organs? Some experts say that hermaphrodites are as common as redheads. WHO created those children if not your god? Who are you to judge them? Let live in peace those who do you no harm.
Sounds like congress!
No Congress is Gypsies, Tramps & Thieves with a few perverts thrown in for political correctness.
The Boy Scouts at least have a moral code of behavior.
Let the gays and lesbos form their own orginazations.
GALE - Gays And Lesbos Entwined.
What I mean is, Congress is constantly delaying decisions as long as they possibly can. Like the fiscal cliff.
Hope they delay it til hell freezes over ;)
You know, I have to say this.....Frankly I don't care what the boy scouts do regarding this decision, it doesn't affect me in any way, no kids in scouts and never a scout myself, but why do many of you people think it is okay for a 5 or 6 year old to be in the organization from the start, grow up in the organization, be an outstanding member and on his journey he realizes he is gay and then gets thrown out all because someone ratted him out? How is this fair? I am just amazed at the thinking some of you people have, just because someone is gay doesn't mean they are a pedophiles. Gay men and women are teachers, doctors, lawyers, policemen, firemen, we are in all walks of life and always will be and guess what, the world still turns as it aways has.
Oh, and to those of you who keep saying, start your own organization, just know this....The city I currently live in was awarded the host for the GSWS (Gay Softball World Series) in 2015, our local paper had an article about it, guess what the first comments were? The first several comments were "why do they have to have their own softball leagues and world series, if they want to be all inclusive why not just play in "regular" softball league". So either way, it is a no win situation with you people. Please start worrying about your own lives and don't worry about others, this country would be in a much better place if you wouldn't sweat the small stuff.
As a former scout, I say delay it forever...
AMEN to that !!!
As a former Scout, I urge the BSA to stand firm and maintain the current policy.
give up the funding then... IT'S ALL ABOUT $$$
I could not agree more. Keep these fags away from my grandchildren.
As a former scout, I say I'm embarrassed by their current stand.
turned gay since scouts OCCUPY THIS
As a sister to a former scout, the Boy Scouts organization is akin to Westboro Baptist Church.
BSA is nothing like Westboro.......how can you live your life being this stupid.....yes, stupid.........STUPID cannot be taught!
Wow, Carol.. I hope for your grandchildren's sake that none of them are gay because it's clear you're going to write them off for dead when they tell you. What makes me laugh is the fact that realistically,there are several LGBT people in your life already. You,like so many here, are so positive you are standing guard protecting kids from all of the gay pedophiles out there...that you've allowed the actual perverts like Sanduskys and Catholic priests to molest children unquestioned for years..
?LGBT? lesbian gay butt trompers?
@Empson. Westboro Baptist believes in hatred and exclusion of those that do not share their own beliefs. BSA believes the same thing. Please explain to me how it's stupid. It must be that you're an anti-gay BSA supporter, I'm sure. THAT isn't just stupid, it's intolerant. JUST LIKE WESTBORO BAPTIST.
Why can't they keep their policy? It's a private organization and they should have the freedom to establish their own policy!! It has nothing to do with being "tolerant".
Carol from SC - "Keep those fags away from my grandchildren"? From the ignorant south I see. With the statement you put out there, I hope to God that I can be there to see the look on your face when one of your grandchildren comes out and pronounces he/she is gay. I'll take pictures, videos and maybe turn it into a documentary called "Come out, come out, where ever you are".
CHECK THIS OUT!!!..................
Im filled with disgust at the pro-gay and the gays community on their continuous attempt at forcing the gay culture on public norm and trying to force their way into our organizations that build community and child growth!
Also, its completely absurd the argument these groups (and certain people on this site!) give on the percentage of pedophiles that are straight vs. gay! They all need to be shot if you ask me but, if the intelligent American would do some research they would find out that the gay culture tries to distort the facts because actually gay pedophiles are called "pederasts"! So, yes if your study only involves the term "pedophile", then the % leans towards the straight community. If you combine the terms "pedophile" and "pederast" the % is overwhelmingly against the gay community!
If you doubt my comments check out Kevin Bishop. He is a major activist for gay/lesbian community and admitted pederast and is gay. He has for decades promoted the NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association (yes, this makes me just wanna vomit!) In an interview, he stated himself, that "if you scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile"!!! This is statements from a head gay activist!!! He has continuously promoted "sexual freedom" and lowering the age of consent for children (huh???, just what I thought!!) In other countries, the gay community are more open on gaining assess to children but in the U.S. they are more circumspect on this and the homosexual activists try and publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles/pederasts as part of a "public relations strategy". But homosexual groups actively recruit youth through groups like The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the Hettrickmartin Institute, AIDS services providers, and various agencies that assist runaway youth!
The gay community use their contacts with our community leaders LIKE Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader!!!!! (Now people can see where all this gay push is being supported!!) This "judge" was an attorney for the ACLU. She co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent be lowered to 12yr old!!! (WHAT??) This can be checked out..."sex bias in the US code", report for the US Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977!!
Reports produced by gay friendly organizations, state that 97% of pedophiles are from heterosexuals. This just "deflects attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children"!! This goes back to the pedophile (adult having sex with child of opposite sex) and pederast (adult having sex with child of same sex) is how they try to get away with these distorted reports! A gay study performed by Jay and Young several years ago reported that 73% of homosexual had sexual intercourse with children 16yrs old and younger! In this study, they found that 80% of the boys who are pedophile victims, were molested by "gay adult males"!!! In a study done in 1985 compared the rates of molestation on pederast vs pedophiles and they come up with these numbers (which is scary as hell!!) by Dr. Paul Cameron, PHD in a average of 20 years found:
-pederast molested 22,981 boys
-pedophiles molested 4,453 girls
...if you do the math, that was 27,434 molestations and nearly 84% was done by homosexuals!!!! (now where is your argument gay activists???)
Now to my point....... in a nationwide investigation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that there was more than 2000 reported molestations by adult male scout leaders!!! As of yet, I have not found newer studies on this subject, but give me time! America needs to stand up and fight these people to the full extent. They are pushing their "wants" on the American people and trying more and more to gain assess to our children! The only thing difference in recent years, is the way the have amended their attacks with abstruse barrages of pity and the liberal side of the ACLU to help!
Don't give in America! We must protect our country, our children, and rights as Americans!
I have many gay friends and acquaintances, and have mostly good things to say about all of them. That said, I am not ready to accept gay marriage, and I don't think it's the same for a kid to have two mommies or two daddies. I still think things work best when a child has a mother figure and a father figure. As far as organizations such as Boy Scouts of America and others, it is entirely up to them what their policies when it comes to heterosexual vs. homosexual are. After all, children are at stake here, and they are the most important resource for the future that we have.
"Lurch"....
my god, .... you are very likely the most Ignorant fool i have encountered in almost two minutes...
but that kind of Prestige is Fleeting....
oh well... being a loser is something you must be used to, by now...
Have a Better Day !
I'm an Eagle Scout and I say this un-American and un-Godly policy of discrimination must END now!
Be Brave, BSA. Have Courage!
Phantom, Don't you know the BSA has to check with their minders known as the LDS or Church of Mormon that uses the BSA as an arm of recruitment for their church? The Mormons have put millions of dollars into attempting to overturn gay marriage (Proposition 8) in California.
William, do you hate the LDS? Do you hate all Christians? Why?
William-360414 your right the mormans have also sent more money and aid to people, countrys and states where there have been hurricanes, earthquakes ect than most governments so take your anti mormon hate and shove it up your as-, as- hole
oh maybe you can now tell im NOT mormon but i do see much good from what they do for all people you piece of shi-
WILLIAM 360414
You are full pf Bull S H I T.........I WOULD RANK you with Forrest Gump
"Patriot" - you said-
""William, do you hate the LDS? Do you hate all Christians? Why?""
Patriot, that is one stupid Question to ASK... Don't you Think ?
you MUST be absolutely Brain Dead, to ask such an Ignorant Question about an organization like LDS.
IF LDS paid for a Campaign of Bigotry against maybe the "Irish" which i just happen to be, well i guess i would not be very pleased with LDS... would i ?
its just a loose Example, so don't avoid the Question with any of that "apples and Oranges" crap.
ya' Bigot.
And "RAY"- nice picture, but you are not the only one who served our country, and i would not "Rank" you at all... because i am not NEARLY as FAT HEADED as your Miserable Carcass appears to Be,
so "in your Neck" !
The whole "Vote" on this issue then the delay till May is probably just a tactic to try to convince corporate donors like Intel and UPS to continue to give money. They probably have no intention of changing their policy.
Let's hope not....
Sounds good to me!
I saw this one coming! I knew they would be too afraid to go against the bible thumpers. Another excuse will come during the annual meeting.
Kimv/They are not going against the bible thumpers. These people wouldn't know the understanding of the Bible if GOD himself took the bible and thumped it against their stupid ass heads. It is a shame that these people think they will get to heaven before a Gay person, and all the while, they are watching the Gay persons sins and ignoring their own sins. Why are you worried about someone else sins? You know why because it makes you feel better about your own sins. Really please.
Kim V, thump this your piece of crap
CHECK THIS OUT!!!..................
Im filled with disgust at the pro-gay and the gays community on their continuous attempt at forcing the gay culture on public norm and trying to force their way into our organizations that build community and child growth!
Also, its completely absurd the argument these groups (and certain people on this site!) give on the percentage of pedophiles that are straight vs. gay! They all need to be shot if you ask me but, if the intelligent American would do some research they would find out that the gay culture tries to distort the facts because actually gay pedophiles are called "pederasts"! So, yes if your study only involves the term "pedophile", then the % leans towards the straight community. If you combine the terms "pedophile" and "pederast" the % is overwhelmingly against the gay community!
If you doubt my comments check out Kevin Bishop. He is a major activist for gay/lesbian community and admitted pederast and is gay. He has for decades promoted the NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association (yes, this makes me just wanna vomit!) In an interview, he stated himself, that "if you scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile"!!! This is statements from a head gay activist!!! He has continuously promoted "sexual freedom" and lowering the age of consent for children (huh???, just what I thought!!) In other countries, the gay community are more open on gaining assess to children but in the U.S. they are more circumspect on this and the homosexual activists try and publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles/pederasts as part of a "public relations strategy". But homosexual groups actively recruit youth through groups like The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the Hettrickmartin Institute, AIDS services providers, and various agencies that assist runaway youth!
The gay community use their contacts with our community leaders LIKE Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader!!!!! (Now people can see where all this gay push is being supported!!) This "judge" was an attorney for the ACLU. She co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent be lowered to 12yr old!!! (WHAT??) This can be checked out..."sex bias in the US code", report for the US Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977!!
Reports produced by gay friendly organizations, state that 97% of pedophiles are from heterosexuals. This just "deflects attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children"!! This goes back to the pedophile (adult having sex with child of opposite sex) and pederast (adult having sex with child of same sex) is how they try to get away with these distorted reports! A gay study performed by Jay and Young several years ago reported that 73% of homosexual had sexual intercourse with children 16yrs old and younger! In this study, they found that 80% of the boys who are pedophile victims, were molested by "gay adult males"!!! In a study done in 1985 compared the rates of molestation on pederast vs pedophiles and they come up with these numbers (which is scary as hell!!) by Dr. Paul Cameron, PHD in a average of 20 years found:
-pederast molested 22,981 boys
-pedophiles molested 4,453 girls
...if you do the math, that was 27,434 molestations and nearly 84% was done by homosexuals!!!! (now where is your argument gay activists???)
Now to my point....... in a nationwide investigation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that there was more than 2000 reported molestations by adult male scout leaders!!! As of yet, I have not found newer studies on this subject, but give me time! America needs to stand up and fight these people to the full extent. They are pushing their "wants" on the American people and trying more and more to gain assess to our children! The only thing difference in recent years, is the way the have amended their attacks with abstruse barrages of pity and the liberal side of the ACLU to help!
Don't give in America! We must protect our country, our children, and rights as Americans
Follow the $$$ Kim, bible thumpers have LOTS & LOTS of it!
A'int it GREAT!
Jamie you are a foolish hateful Bigot
At its August, 1986 meeting, the ASA officially
accepted the committee's report and passed the following resolution:
They are a private organization. Why not form thier own scout organization and exclude straight. I have no problem with that. Otherwise eliminate all organizations from having restrictive membership regulations.
Do you really think the right-wing and bigoted christians in this country would allow such an organization to be founded without raising a stink? You guys organized boycotts and threatened lawsuits over a rainbow Oreo cookie ad, for god's sake. Where was all this talk of "they are a private organization and can do what they want" when that was happening?
Discrimination is wrong on any level. Just because they are a private organization doesn't give them the right to discriminate. Any more than a private golf club can exclude black people from their membership.
How frustrating that "Having Standards" is now passed off for discrimination......see where this world has come?!
The scouts are a private organization that avails themselves of the facilities of publicly owned property such as schools, army bases, national parks etc.
If they wish to discriminate, then they should not be allowed to use those facilities
Good point, I never thought of that.
I find that interesting because there are several PRIVATE groups strictly for Black people that can exclude pretty much anyone who isn't black is ok. Should that be allowed? Why is this fine is it not discrimination but yet "private golf club" naturally goes to "exclude black people". Fine world we are living in where somehow being white, religious, and having moral values is somehow wrong.... Awesome.... The reality is even though it seems like nothing more than a mental illness to me they have gotten enough people to "side" with them you can do whatever you want now and just have to cry "They are discriminating against me!!". Regardless if they care or not. Why is it so important that we know if you are gay or straight?
mamof2
Do you mean that scouts should let everyone in? That means the pedophiles too? After all, if we don't let them in then isn't that discriminating?
Go ahead, cling to the irrational fears a little longer. But the world is changing and the bigots of the past are getting old and dying off. Try as they might to make new bigots, our younger generation seems, on the whole to be a bit more enlightened.
If people are praying to a God who is supposed to hurt children and exclude them from a life of community service, I pity them. If you're praying for the exclusion of people from something you're a part of, 9 times out of 10, you're probably on the wrong side of the matter.
We assume janierock that a "bigot" by your definition is anyone that does bow down to your own personal ideology. No one is stopping gays from organizing their own scouting organization, but why should the overwhelming majority of heterosexual kids and their parents have to change their core values to suit yours? Perhaps you need to revisit the definition of "bigot" as you look in the mirror.
Well said thinkingman, well said!
Couldnt have said it better myself. Society now has a way to make what's wrong seem right and those who don't know any better are easily convinced.
Lets look at the new generation of enligtend souls that are replacing those who are dying off.
1: higher rates of government support.
2: Kids killing each other in school.
3: Abortion given with no questions asked.
4: Condoms given out to children.
5: Vote for Liberals like Obama who decry torture and then ignore that Obama makes it policy to carry out extra judicial killings.
6: The break down of family ties
7: pathetically low test scores.
8: Ambivalence towards moral, social and political matters but an embrace of pop culture.
Shall I go on? This is the world that you helped to create in this younger generation and it is a world that will devour itself and when it is done, people or morality will be here to pick up the pieces, as we have always done.
janie, Fear is a word used by people like you when the ground you stand on is crumbling. Are you a heterophobe? Do you fear different sex marriage? Stop with the fear crap. Has nothing to do with fear. Even if you do not believe in God, homosexuality is against nature. If it was the norm, no human life would exist.
Thinkingman-2605299 and Spo de o de:
Definition of BIGOT
: a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance
Reference:
All young boys should be allowed into Scouting. I am an Eagle Scout and I have friends who are both heterosexual and homosexual. I don't care whom my friends chose to love or have sex with, and neither should Scouting. Boy Scouts bring a positive influence to communities across the country and excluding members simply because of their sexual preference is absurd, intolerant and bigoted.
Just because it is not a majority, doesn't make it any less normal or makes it "against nature". That's like saying white people being born is against nature, because they are not the majority on this earth either.
momo, What you argue has nothing to do with propagating the species.
The meaning of the word majority means nothing in our current political environment. There have been polls against allowing gay marriage all over this country going back decades. Somehow, someone then deemed that despite a majority being against a new proposal, it wasn't fair to the minority groups so let's bypass what the majority is requesting and make the minority group's happy, because someone decided on their own, it was the right thing. Who decides what the right thing is if not the majority. What is the point in even voting or expressing an opinion if one loud group can come in and dominate the conversation, despite their status as having a minority opinion. This country is no longer about what the majority wants or is right for our nation, it is about appeasing every liberal idea and turning our country on the path of the Roman's... we see how well that worked out when societies got rid of long standing moralities in favor of liberal progress.
momo, then please tell us, what does thumping a stick against a sick create? And what does pushing a hole against another hole create? Does it create life? Nope, it only fades away in time because of the "Natural Inability" to procreate. Sorry for the math lesson, but so many are confused about 2+2=4 these days.
momof2 , it is also "natural" for sex with siblings , eating of the young & canibalism & male killing of the weaker males, males sex with MANY partners , yes , even as recently discovered within the bird species . Just because something is found naturally within the animal kingdom , doesnt make it an admirable trait for humans , shouldnt we hold ourselves to a higher degree of standards than dogs or cats or pigs ?
THANK YOU - Candlewycke
Since when has the BSA been assigned the responsibility of "propagating the species"?
Talk about a DEFLECTION from the issue. The issue is fairness, NOT PROCREATION.
So, if a straight man decides to have a vasectomy, he can no longer propagate the species either. Does this straight man now lose the ability to be a scout leader?
Candlewycke, that same kind of sky-is-falling mentality has been around since Kennedy and Johnson. They pushed civil rights for blacks and endured the same backlash for conservatives that we see now. Conservatives were on the wrong side of history then, and are on the wrong side of history now.
I'm not conservative there, Rocks and I think YOU'RE on the wrong side of history. Go form "The Rainbow Scouts of America".
I love how somehow what the BSA does regarding it's policy on gays is somehow the same "civil rights for blacks" movement. Amazing that you can lean on that. Can we give the same rights to pedophiles and bestiality people as well? I mean they can't help who they are attracted too. (And yes most pedophiles are HOMOSEXUAL. Males sleeping with MALES is HOMOSEXUAL behavior. Why is it that this simple FACT is so easily deflected by the LBGT community? Oh yeah because its a significantly damaging one that they just want to ignore and say "No see thats completely different. Most of those guys are Hetrosexual anyway".. Really again Males sleeping with MALES is HOMOSEXUAL behavior. I don't care what "lie" they have lived their whole life. How many other "Gay" men have come out after being married and having children? Are they not "real" gays
Stay true to your core convictions BSA leaders! If the National Leadership shifts all the responsibility to do what's right on to the shoulders of local chapters, that would be a colossal cop out indeed!
There has been and always will be Gay boys in scouting.
But keep private actions private. Thanks.
Just as no one should be having heterosexual sex on camping trips (and yes, there are girls in Boy Scouts, and there are female leaders in Boy Scouts), no one should be having homosexual sex either. I'm pretty sure that's one thing just about everyone here can agree on. The only place I've ever seen in any merit badge where sexuality is even referenced is in the Family Life badge, when one of the requirements is to have a family discussion about difficult issues. As it should be, these issues are taught by the family, not Scouts. So what's the problem with letting a boy who discovers he is gay remain in Scouts? Oh, right, according to posters here, all gay people are uncontrollable nymphomaniacs whose only goal is to recruit others.....
Now that Obama has females going into the combat arms, the time has come for BSA to admit girls into the Boy Scouts or else this too will be discrimantory. When will scouting ever get with it.
Good point, Sparty! One thing we can count on with President Obama and the U.S. Congress is that they will jump right on every social issue they can dig up or create, but balancing the buget, building a strong national defence, securing our borders, reducing wasteful spending, etc., well, you know, there's plenty of time for dealing with those issues.......someday.
Um, ever hear of the Girl Scouts?
It is ridiculous to admit girls into the BOY scouts. Their name alone says they are an organization for boys. The girls have their own group for them and it is called GIRL scouts. Why is this such a difficult concept? And on the note of women on the front lines of combat, that is an absolutely stupid decision. Sorry folks but there is a difference between men and women and women cannot and should not do every single job a man does. There are some women who may be stronger than some men but on average, and the norm is that men ARE stronger than women. And boys shouldnt be forced into situations where girls are always there. There should not be coed teams of football and wrestling etc. These are sports that should be restricted and girls have no business playing them. Dont care if some of you agree or not but facts are facts and boys need to quit being feminized. they need to keep their male identities. It is not wrong
Scouting has been with it, long before you were born.
First - what does women in combat have to do with scouting?
Second - Women faught and demanded EQUAL rights, what about equal dont people understand. While I am not sure I agree with ladies on the front lines, it is equal.
Women dont have the choice whether or not to be female. People have a choice to make the right decision and not be gay. When it comes down to a willing choice of who to have sex with, it comes with right and wrong.
I thought it odd many years ago when my brother told me that he had joined the Girl Scouts and could because there was not a Boy Scout troop available to join. We are talking 40 years ago or so. Evidently, this is not unheard of.
Girls ARE in Boy Scouts. At age 14, girls are allowed to join as Venturing Scouts. Many girls find the high adventure aspect of Boy Scouting appealing. In fact, there have been all-female Venturing crews who have completed the Philmont trek. And many girls work at Boy Scout camps.... and no, they're not closet lesbians.
There is a newer group called American Heritage Girls which partnered up with the BSA in 2009 as a branch off of the scouts, but for girls. Girls can join at 5 and continue through 14 years old where they can earn their Stars and Stripes Award as the highest achievement. They then can go onto Venturing Scouts.
Phantom-- It is a private organization. They have a right to take time to sort out all of the issues. While I happen to think homosexual behavior is wrong, I do not have any problem with gay men and boys being involved with various kinds of groups. However, there is a potential concern that I have. I have a daughter who was in Girl Scouts. I would have strongly objected to a straight man, even one of the fathers in the troop, going on camping trips with teenage girls. That does not mean that I think all straight men are potential pedophiles, only that it is not appropriate, and the great majority of parents of Girl Scouts would agree. Gay Boy Scout leaders are in an analogous situation. It is just not appropriate. As for the Boy Scouts themselves, I would only require that boys who know themselves to be gay or bisexual acknowledge it, so that appropriate arrangements can be made in potentially problem situations. We wouldn't allow straight boys and girls to have unchaperoned alone time together, and the same should apply to gay scouts. Frankly, I would have no real problem with a gay scout camping with a straight one, as long as everyone knows where he stands, or bunks in this case.
I have been a Girl Scout leader for 15 years, and yes, we do have men leaders that go along on camping trips. Girl Scouts has very strict rules that all children and adults are in separate tents and that all tents are gender specific. Every leader has to go through a yearly background check and take training every year. I would assume that Boy Scouts have similiar guidelines. Given that, I really don't see what the issue is over admitting homosexuals into Boy Scouts. Pedophiles are actually more likely to be "straight" men that are repressing their feelings than a gay man that is out of the closet.
Wow, I always thought we had "Freedom of Assembley" here in America; ya know,,,,,,like "THe Congressional Black Caucus!" Maybe I'm mistaken?!?
Regardless, in a more practical observation, we should remember history, in that it was our "Boy Scouts" who went toe-to-toe with "The Hitler Youth" during WW-II. It was a vital resource for scouts of fighting age, and on the homefront. I personally think the "PC Police" shoud not screw with such a vital national resource.
Furthermore, if gays want to join the scouts, let em join the Girl Scouts!
momof2 - Why are you advocating for such discrimination. Why do you force people of different sexes to dwell in separate tents? How can we ever foster true equality is you keep forcing people into isolated categories? Where would you put a cross dresser or a trans-sexual? Why do you insist on not allowing older men and young girls to share the same tent. Are you a bigot?
And by the way, I think it is very sad that you deny a person the right to chose his own sexual identity by suggesting that a pedophile is pretending to be straight but is really a homosexual. Why cant you allow people to define themselves?
This is the price for true equality. You cant erect barriers based on sexuality, including who sleeps in whose tent if you want to encourage true equality. What you are doing is saying that men may not be trustworthy to sleep in your daughters tent alone with her.
Think about it from the other perspective before you so easily dismiss those who dont want homosexuals in the Scouts.
People often mock what they unable to understand.
momf2 gay guys that like guys, how can you say they are ALL not pedifiles? They like boys, just little boys, come on keep ALL gay guys away from my grandkids
lurch...
Idiocy
I have no interest in 'little boys' Heck I am not interested in most anyone under 40. And for 20 years I have only been interested in my significant other.
But you are simply a bigot and and your opinions are not rationally based. THey are based on lies. But your kind is dying off and you will not be missed
Frankly true, ya right, bigot no, racists no, but people like you, Obummer others make me a bigot and racist. Crawl back under your rock and back in your closet, and take your SIGNIFICANT other with ya
momof2 , it is also "natural" for sex with siblings , eating of the young & canibalism & male killing of the weaker males, males sex with MANY partners , yes , even as recently discovered within the bird species . Just because something is found naturally within the animal kingdom , doesnt make it an admirable trait for humans , shouldnt we hold ourselves to a higher degree of standards than dogs or cats or pigs ?
we understand , we just dont agree with you
@Momof2 - please realize not everyone here is a hater. I am a registered Boy Scout leader, and have gone on camping trips, and my husband is a registered Girl Scout leader and has gone on camping trips. Leaders in both organizations undergo strict child safety training intended to protect children from assault by ANY adult - same OR opposite sex. Boy Scouts call for there to always be two deep leadership - a minimum of two adults on all trips at all times. Leaders are not even allowed to drive a Scout with no one else in the car unless that Scout is family. If troops are following the policies outlined by the BSA, then this really shouldn't be an issue. And it never has been in Girl Scouts - we've had very successful troops with Dads as leaders.
CHECK THIS OUT!!!..................
Im filled with disgust at the pro-gay and the gays community on their continuous attempt at forcing the gay culture on public norm and trying to force their way into our organizations that build community and child growth!
Also, its completely absurd the argument these groups (and certain people on this site!) give on the percentage of pedophiles that are straight vs. gay! They all need to be shot if you ask me but, if the intelligent American would do some research they would find out that the gay culture tries to distort the facts because actually gay pedophiles are called "pederasts"! So, yes if your study only involves the term "pedophile", then the % leans towards the straight community. If you combine the terms "pedophile" and "pederast" the % is overwhelmingly against the gay community!
If you doubt my comments check out Kevin Bishop. He is a major activist for gay/lesbian community and admitted pederast and is gay. He has for decades promoted the NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association (yes, this makes me just wanna vomit!) In an interview, he stated himself, that "if you scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile"!!! This is statements from a head gay activist!!! He has continuously promoted "sexual freedom" and lowering the age of consent for children (huh???, just what I thought!!) In other countries, the gay community are more open on gaining assess to children but in the U.S. they are more circumspect on this and the homosexual activists try and publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles/pederasts as part of a "public relations strategy". But homosexual groups actively recruit youth through groups like The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the Hettrickmartin Institute, AIDS services providers, and various agencies that assist runaway youth!
The gay community use their contacts with our community leaders LIKE Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader!!!!! (Now people can see where all this gay push is being supported!!) This "judge" was an attorney for the ACLU. She co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent be lowered to 12yr old!!! (WHAT??) This can be checked out..."sex bias in the US code", report for the US Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977!!
Reports produced by gay friendly organizations, state that 97% of pedophiles are from heterosexuals. This just "deflects attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children"!! This goes back to the pedophile (adult having sex with child of opposite sex) and pederast (adult having sex with child of same sex) is how they try to get away with these distorted reports! A gay study performed by Jay and Young several years ago reported that 73% of homosexual had sexual intercourse with children 16yrs old and younger! In this study, they found that 80% of the boys who are pedophile victims, were molested by "gay adult males"!!! In a study done in 1985 compared the rates of molestation on pederast vs pedophiles and they come up with these numbers (which is scary as hell!!) by Dr. Paul Cameron, PHD in a average of 20 years found:
-pederast molested 22,981 boys
-pedophiles molested 4,453 girls
...if you do the math, that was 27,434 molestations and nearly 84% was done by homosexuals!!!! (now where is your argument gay activists???)
Now to my point....... in a nationwide investigation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that there was more than 2000 reported molestations by adult male scout leaders!!! As of yet, I have not found newer studies on this subject, but give me time! America needs to stand up and fight these people to the full extent. They are pushing their "wants" on the American people and trying more and more to gain assess to our children! The only thing difference in recent years, is the way the have amended their attacks with abstruse barrages of pity and the liberal side of the ACLU to help!
Don't give in America! We must protect our country, our children, and rights as Americans
Jamie-2626566
Your views are in error sir, you obviously have not carried out enough research.
Here is a little on Dr Cameron's CV:
In 1985, the American Sociological Association (ASA) adopted a resolution which asserted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism" and noted that "Dr. Paul Cameron has repeatedly campaigned for the abrogation of the civil rights of lesbians and gay men, substantiating his call on the basis of his distorted interpretation of this research." The resolution formally charged an ASA committee with the task of "critically evaluating and publicly responding to the work of Dr. Paul Cameron."
His work was found to be factually in error and much of the data had been fabricated. The American Sociological Association uses the term pedophile to describe any adult having sexual contact with a child. Dr. Cameron decided that any male who has contact with a male child must be gay. However this has been shown not to be true.
The number of straight identifying men who molest children is around 10 in 11 cases. In other words a gay man is no more likely to molest a child than a straight man if we placed this at a per head of population.
Either you did not know the researcher you like to quote as been disassociated with the university he once was a remember and the American Sociological Association or you decided to ignore it so you could support your lies.
The Gay Manifesto
Michael Swift
First Published in Gay Community News, Feb. 15-21, 1987
(From the Congressional Record, with preface restored [restored preface in blue])
This essay is an outré, madness, a tragic, cruel fantasy, an eruption of inner rage, on how the oppressed desperately dream of being the oppressor.
We shall sodomize your sons, emblems of your feeble masculinity, of your shallow dreams and vulgar lies. We shall seduce them in your schools, in your dormitories, in your gymnasiums, in your locker rooms, in your sports arenas, in your seminaries, in your youth groups, in your movie theater bathrooms, in your army bunkhouses, in your truck stops, in your all male clubs, in your houses of Congress, wherever men are with men together. Your sons shall become our minions and do our bidding. They will be recast in our image. They will come to crave and adore us.
Women, you cry for freedom. You say you are no longer satisfied with men; they make you unhappy. We, connoisseurs of the masculine face, the masculine physique, shall take your men from you then. We will amuse them; we will instruct them; we will embrace them when they weep. Women, you say you wish to live with each other instead of with men. Then go and be with each other. We shall give your men pleasures they have never known because we are foremost men too, and only one man knows how to truly please another man; only one man can understand the depth and feeling, the mind and body of another man.
All laws banning homosexual activity will be revoked. Instead, legislation shall be passed which engenders love between men.
All homosexuals must stand together as brothers; we must be united artistically, philosophically, socially, politically and financially. We will triumph only when we present a common face to the vicious heterosexual enemy.
If you dare to cry faggot, fairy, queer, at us, we will stab you in your cowardly hearts and defile your dead, puny bodies.
We shall write poems of the love between men; we shall stage plays in which man openly caresses man; we shall make films about the love between heroic men which will replace the cheap, superficial, sentimental, insipid, juvenile, heterosexual infatuations presently dominating your cinema screens. We shall sculpt statues of beautiful young men, of bold athletes which will be placed in your parks, your squares, your plazas. The museums of the world will be filled only with paintings of graceful, naked lads.
Our writers and artists will make love between men fashionable and de rigueur, and we will succeed because we are adept at setting styles. We will eliminate heterosexual liaisons through usage of the devices of wit and ridicule, devices which we are skilled in employing.
We will unmask the powerful homosexuals who masquerade as heterosexuals. You will be shocked and frightened when you find that your presidents and their sons, your industrialists, your senators, your mayors, your generals, your athletes, your film stars, your television personalities, your civic leaders, your priests are not the safe, familiar, bourgeois, heterosexual figures you assumed them to be. We are everywhere; we have infiltrated your ranks. Be careful when you speak of homosexuals because we are always among you; we may be sitting across the desk from you; we may be sleeping in the same bed with you.
There will be no compromises. We are not middle-class weaklings. Highly intelligent, we are the natural aristocrats of the human race, and steely-minded aristocrats never settle for less. Those who oppose us will be exiled.
We shall raise vast private armies, as Mishima did, to defeat you. We shall conquer the world because warriors inspired by and banded together by homosexual love and honor are invincible as were the ancient Greek soldiers.
The family unit-spawning ground of lies, betrayals, mediocrity, hypocrisy and violence--will be abolished. The family unit, which only dampens imagination and curbs free will, must be eliminated. Perfect boys will be conceived and grown in the genetic laboratory. They will be bonded together in communal setting, under the control and instruction of homosexual savants.
All churches who condemn us will be closed. Our only gods are handsome young men. We adhere to a cult of beauty, moral and esthetic. All that is ugly and vulgar and banal will be annihilated. Since we are alienated from middle-class heterosexual conventions, we are free to live our lives according to the dictates of the pure imagination. For us too much is not enough.
The exquisite society to emerge will be governed by an elite comprised of gay poets. One of the major requirements for a position of power in the new society of homoeroticism will be indulgence in the Greek passion. Any man contaminated with heterosexual lust will be automatically barred from a position of influence. All males who insist on remaining stupidly heterosexual will be tried in homosexual courts of justice and will become invisible men.
We shall rewrite history, history filled and debased with your heterosexual lies and distortions. We shall portray the homosexuality of the great leaders and thinkers who have shaped the world. We will demonstrate that homosexuality and intelligence and imagination are inextricably linked, and that homosexuality is a requirement for true nobility, true beauty in a man.
We shall be victorious because we are fueled with the ferocious bitterness of the oppressed who have been forced to play seemingly bit parts in your dumb, heterosexual shows throughout the ages. We too are capable of firing guns and manning the barricades of the ultimate revolution.
Tremble, hetero swine, when we appear before you without our masks.
@Krestov....thanks for trying to attack my research because you opened another "door"!!!!!
.....Yes, Dr. Cameron disassociated himself from the APA after he was labeled "the most dangerous anti-gay man against gays and lesbians culture"! The gay community used its influence to try and destroy Dr. Cameron since they didnt like his study results. This was pushed by the judiciary influence by none other than people like Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader who speaks regularly at ASA functions. This judge also reviews and decides on cases brought forward by the ASA and its associates! So tell me there isnt something a bit "fishy"!! .....so anything else you would like to debate krestov? Let me know;)
Jamie-2626566
No he did not dissociate himself he was asked to leave. He was asked to leave similar associations in Canada, and the United Kingdom. Where Judge Bader has no jurisdiction.
As to a debate I will kindly decline as you have already shown the tact you'll take, implying some secretive underhanded gay group is out to get this man. He was wrong, subsequent data has shown he was wrong and multiple investigations carried independently of each other and international had shown he was wrong.
His results have been unable to be reproduced, regardless of whether the investigations occurred the irreproducibility of his results is the most damning.
You are free to continue to reproduce this lie, but you sir are not free to reproduce it as truth.
Good day to you I will not be corresponding with you on this particular thread hence.
Krestov - So please site some numbers showing what is wrong. Most "pedophiles" are Male men molesting male children. That is homosexual behavior. Trying to deflect this simple fact is amazing to me. Even going so far as to say "It's mostly hetereosexual men that molest children". I've poked around and its not that hard to find. Here read this: "This suggests that the resulting proportion of true pedophiles among persons with a homosexual erotic development is greater than that in persons who develop heterosexually. This, of course, would not indicate that androphilic males have a greater propensity to offend against children."
Suprise this means that more gay men molest children then heterosexual men by a "scientific" study that wants to try and seperate into classes do but somehow the gay community wants to spout that its the other way around. We bring up Sandusky since it was the recent high profile one. Wow he had sex with 17 year old "boys". I don't know but 17 year old is not exactly a "child" and sure sounds like homosexual behavior to anyone not living in denile. I don't care if he says he is not homosexual its his ACTIONS that define this not just saying "I'm not gay!!"
dan123123123
The AMA classifies anyone who molests a child as a pedophile, and the object is not considered by the sex of the victim, why, becasue sexuality is based on adult adult attraction. Research has shown that the sex of the child is not important in the majority of pedophile, what is more important is access.
A male is more likely to be left or have access to male children, the coach for example. Many people assume that becasue a male is abusing male children they are gay. This is an incorrect assumption. You can choose to believe this or not, however I like to go on the side of the scientist, where this has been tested and retested.
However if you are hell bent (excuse the pun) on trying to classify gay men as more likely to molest children, then feel free to do so its a pity you are willing to sacrifice the truth to support your own prejudices and for that I pity you.
On that note I wish you good day I will not engage in further correspondence with you on this topic in this particular thread as I have a feeling you will refuse to take this on board. Good evening to you.
But you wanted numbers and references:
“The research to date all points to there being no significant relationship between a homosexual lifestyle and child molestation” (Goth and Gary, 1982, pg 147: quoted in Karen L. Kinnear, “Childhood Sexual Abuse: A reference handbook (2007)
According to Carole Jenny et al, “Are Children at Risk for Sexual Abuse by Homosexuals?” in Pediatrics (July, 1994): they started with over 300 cases of abuse, and were able to identify only 2 homosexual perpetrators. “Using the data from our study... the risk children would identify recognizably homosexual adults as the potential abuser are from 0% to 3%”
“Groth and Birnbaum (1978) studied 175 adult males who were convicted in Massachusetts of sexual assault against a child. None of the men had an exclusively homosexual adult sexual orientation
I have a question about this. I guess I can see allowing "gay" boy scouts, as long as they keep it to themselves. After all, boys are not supposed to be sexually active anyway. What bothers me most is the idea of allowing gay scout leaders. How is a homosexual man all that different from a pedophile? You can't tell me that adult homosexual males are not sexually attracted to boys. It would be like allowing an adult heterosexual male to be a girl scout leader. It is just not a good idea.
Because that would be a pedophile. And if you are attracted to little girls I suggest your get some help.
You're a freaking idiot.
Mikey boy, you are a real @!$%#. Perhaps that's the way you like it, eh?
yeah and all heteros are pedophiles because they like women/men and by your logic want to @!$%# little girls/boys...sorry for the sarcasm, but that is a very dumb question.
Because homosexuals aren't attracted to children, they are attracted to other adult homosexuals.
What a dumb comment. What you are saying is that every dad is gawking at his daughters fellow girl scouts at the meetings. Wow man. Truly an idiotic comment.
Still
By your logic you are attracted to little girls. You are a sick puppy.
Me, nor any of my friends, are attracted to children...most are in long term relationships.
You know how we refer to 20-somethings? We call them Twinkies, why? Because if you eat a Twinkie you will get sick, they are not good for you.
Obama the stoner - while I agree homos are nasty, you sir are a complete idiot
I too don't have an issue with Gay Scouts, but with gay ScoutMasters. It has nothing to do with pedophiles, but rather I don't want confused teenagers to rely on a role model like a gay ScoutMaster who will tell them that they might be "Born Gay", even if they really aren't but is just awkward with girls, feeling lonely, and feeling confused about their sexual orientation.
Cameron Ford
so what are homosexual boys attracted to ?
There are male leaders in Girl Scouts. Just like there are female leaders in Boy Scouts.
CHECK THIS OUT!!!..................
Im filled with disgust at the pro-gay and the gays community on their continuous attempt at forcing the gay culture on public norm and trying to force their way into our organizations that build community and child growth!
Also, its completely absurd the argument these groups (and certain people on this site!) give on the percentage of pedophiles that are straight vs. gay! They all need to be shot if you ask me but, if the intelligent American would do some research they would find out that the gay culture tries to distort the facts because actually gay pedophiles are called "pederasts"! So, yes if your study only involves the term "pedophile", then the % leans towards the straight community. If you combine the terms "pedophile" and "pederast" the % is overwhelmingly against the gay community!
If you doubt my comments check out Kevin Bishop. He is a major activist for gay/lesbian community and admitted pederast and is gay. He has for decades promoted the NAMBLA, North American Man/Boy Love Association (yes, this makes me just wanna vomit!) In an interview, he stated himself, that "if you scratch the average homosexual and you will find a pedophile"!!! This is statements from a head gay activist!!! He has continuously promoted "sexual freedom" and lowering the age of consent for children (huh???, just what I thought!!) In other countries, the gay community are more open on gaining assess to children but in the U.S. they are more circumspect on this and the homosexual activists try and publicly disassociate themselves from pedophiles/pederasts as part of a "public relations strategy". But homosexual groups actively recruit youth through groups like The Sexual Minority Youth Assistance League, the Hettrickmartin Institute, AIDS services providers, and various agencies that assist runaway youth!
The gay community use their contacts with our community leaders LIKE Supreme Court Justice Ruth Bader!!!!! (Now people can see where all this gay push is being supported!!) This "judge" was an attorney for the ACLU. She co-authored a report recommending that the age of consent be lowered to 12yr old!!! (WHAT??) This can be checked out..."sex bias in the US code", report for the US Commission on Civil Rights, April 1977!!
Reports produced by gay friendly organizations, state that 97% of pedophiles are from heterosexuals. This just "deflects attention away from their own proclivities to have sex with children"!! This goes back to the pedophile (adult having sex with child of opposite sex) and pederast (adult having sex with child of same sex) is how they try to get away with these distorted reports! A gay study performed by Jay and Young several years ago reported that 73% of homosexual had sexual intercourse with children 16yrs old and younger! In this study, they found that 80% of the boys who are pedophile victims, were molested by "gay adult males"!!! In a study done in 1985 compared the rates of molestation on pederast vs pedophiles and they come up with these numbers (which is scary as hell!!) by Dr. Paul Cameron, PHD in a average of 20 years found:
-pederast molested 22,981 boys
-pedophiles molested 4,453 girls
...if you do the math, that was 27,434 molestations and nearly 84% was done by homosexuals!!!! (now where is your argument gay activists???)
Now to my point....... in a nationwide investigation in the Boy Scouts from 1971 to 1991 revealed that there was more than 2000 reported molestations by adult male scout leaders!!! As of yet, I have not found newer studies on this subject, but give me time! America needs to stand up and fight these people to the full extent. They are pushing their "wants" on the American people and trying more and more to gain assess to our children! The only thing difference in recent years, is the way the have amended their attacks with abstruse barrages of pity and the liberal side of the ACLU to help!
Don't give in America! We must protect our country, our children, and rights as Americans
And those molestations from 1971 to 1991 occurred within an organization that bans homosexuals. So how did such a thing happen, if homosexuals were not allowed to be members?
Another "win" for LDA undue influence over anything their dirty money can.
Good. It is simply wrong to make such a momentous decision on such short notice. Whatever decision is ultimately made, it is correct to give all sides plenty of time to weigh in.
The BSA said last week it was considering changing the policy, leaving local sponsoring organizations free to decide for themselves whether to admit gay scouts.
Give us a break. This does nothing. So rednecks can continue the policy of banning, but progressive areas can allow it? Whatever.
Why someone would allow their children to be a part of this, in this day and age, is beyond me.
Yeah, keep carefully deliberating whether it's ok to leave out certain classes of people out of your organization.... That right there tells me enough.
I think that is fair, it allows chrch based groups to hold their principals and then other scout troops not church based can be formed to compete. Might even remove some of the power the LDS have over the organization.
They keep carefully deliberating the topic because they have to decide is the BSA gonna be another organization that will help you discover your sexual orientation and teach you how to shove it down everyone's throats? I will gladly burn my flag that was flown over the Capitol building in recognition of me earning the rank of Eagle Scout, my medal, letter of recognition from the Missouri congress, letters from my state senator, representative, president, and my uniform on the front steps of the headquarters of the BSA if they openly allow gays into the BSA.
eagle4315 - Do you have an issue with Gay Scouts or just gay ScoutMasters? I am definitely against the later, but be more open to the former.
They are doing what is right.
Actually, doesn't it seem the Boy Scouts have been pretty tolerant in the past - maybe too tolerant? It hasn't been that long since the Boy Scouts were in the news about the cover-ups of homosexual pedophilia. Seems to me they were being pretty tolerant by not exposing those members and pursuing prosecution.....
Let them do what they need to do. As a PRIVATE organziation they should be able to do what they want or believe. Take all the time you need, then vote. Why do folks think they can shove stuff down our throats Form your own troop and be done with it, we do not think its right, WE DO live in America right. freedom of speech, just don't force it on us those who don't believe your way of life is the correct. Go form a church and form your troop, IRS lets churches like the Westboro get away with their crap and still are a tax free haven. Not real sure who the real culprit is, I think we all need to look who's really behind this mess. BSA stand your ground and don't cave to this nonsense.......
Obviously, you are not following the story very well. Right now, even if they wanted to, they CAN'T form their own troop because it is against BSA by-laws. That's what they are asking for, the right to choose.
They lose sponsorship - if they can stand that, more power to them.. it's all about $$
Against the BSA rules or loose sponsors ...
Would our Homo-in-Chief assuredly fund whatever program the Gay/Lesbo folk deside to create ?
that won 't happen it goes against the distruction of this country which is his main agenda
He needs to distroy organizations like the Boy Scouts to reach his goal.
That is what this is really all about.
and take away guns so his musilm terrorist buddies meet less resistance.
Dick,
Are there any nice, clean mental health facilities in your area?
Maybe they could help you with your delusions?
Take care of yourself.
The last time I checked it is still a free country. If those of gay persuasion want to be part of an organization such as the Boy Scouts of America and the Boy Scouts of America is a private organization, they the gays should found their own organization. Why is it that we have to impose the so called modern view on everything. This organization has survived over 100 years, let them stand by their principles. This country is losing its freedoms bit by bit. If a private organization chooses not to accept gays that should be their business. If you don't like it don't join. Get over it, not everyone is going to like you. The government needs to stay out of it, it is a privately funded organization.
Seperate "but equal" is not what the 14 Amendment is all aout and don't ever forget it. I am seeing the terms "faggots, homos, queers, pedophiles, and form your own group if you want gay leaders your faggot kids in the Boy Scouts, go join the Girl Scouts" from all the so-called god, christian, liberty and freedom and morals crowd AGAIN here" while you're advocating NONE of the above in a what a supposed to be a country where this sort of thing was meant to be abolished by the 14th Amendment and where tolerance of one another and these ugly barriers and stereotypes should go away already. We ARE NOT governed by religion and the day we are, we are no different then the countries you conservatives you despise like Iran, Afghanistan, Syria, where leaders practice these exact policies against people who do NOT adhere to their extremist, rigid religious views of governing. You promote policies that shout gays shoud "burn in your hell for their sin" but have no problem with perpetual wars, letting people die without healthcare because they cannot afford it letting corporations and the fossil fuel industry wantonly destroy our environment w/o impunity, millions continue to be paid wages below the poverty line in this country and cheer watching Americans workers get fired as their jobs are sent to overseas to China or elsewhere because THEY'RE paid too much and DESERVE it".
You have no market on "morality of an kind when a family here can barely survive as it is but will gladly take MORE from them so some greedy as crap mega bilionaire CEO can deny them healthcare by no complying with the terms of the ACA by cutting the hours of that employee or firing them altogether". Cut billions from public education and fire theousands of school teachers because they're overpaid thugs who suck at their job and waste our taxpayer money but BOY, let's spend that taxpayer money to put a gun in their hands now".
And while we have children langushing and wasting away in foster homes, jerks liek Pat Robertson have the audacity to say: " People should'nt adopt sexually abused children because they have too many issues and gay families sold not adopt children because only a and a woman can give achild a proper upbringing". Obviously, this clueless imbcecile has competely ignored all the abuse and neglect that has taken in man and woman households and that gay couples have raised children to happy, healthy, NORMAL adults too and they are capable of all the same mistakes and failures as the rest of us as well because we are all human-period. Stop the BS and discrimination as well as these falsehoods, pre-conceived notions and ignorance you choose to carry within you to make yourselves feel superior when none of you are any better then those you condemn.
Let it GO ALREADY and open your hearts and minds because you're hurting children. Children who lonf for acceptance and love and still are living with they are "not accepted and they ARE hated" thanks to likes of this cont'd condemnation just because of who they are. This behaviour towards them is what promotes the cruel bullying in school and often in households of parents who are so controlled by their religion, these kids are terrified to admit the truth or face repercussions so severe they instead stay silent.
For those who have, the consequences of telling the truth were a horrific experience in most cases bu then there were parents who were able to face reality and acept their child for who they are and shaming, punishing and puting them through all kinds of humiliating TX would drive them away or worse, see what we have seen tragically too many times, enough for them to take their lives. BSA needs to see Scouting for what it was meant to do and foster that mission of working together, building self-esteem in children, teens, empowerment and through the activities it encourages our youth to do, become independent, confident individuals that learn to appreciate nature, each other and as you go on to the highest levels in Scouting, doing as much as you can as a troop w/o supervision as I did when I became a Cadet in Girl Scouts and our leaders would "disappear" for longer periods of time as we unloaded the canoes, pitched our tents, got the campfire going, made our trail packs, ate, cleaned up" and then they'ed come back because they were encourageing us to be independent and trusted us to know what we learned, work together and get along.
Practice that eh?
In talking to my three nephews about this they said that if gays are allowed in the BSA they are getting out. They also say that many of their friends feel the same way. Can't say I blame them.